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#429 Cheat sheet for different AI's.
2.1k Plays1 day ago
TOPICS:
- Watchmaking
- CA Glue
- White light interferomety
- DIFFRACTION LIMITED VIDEO MUST WATCH:
- https://youtu.be/MgQbPdiuUTw?si=cvqbxAIJuswziIl9
- Cheat sheet for different AI's.
- Notebook LM
- Tool wear issues on small parts
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts
00:00:01
johngrimsmo
Good morning and welcome to the Business of Machining episode 429. My name is John Grimsmo.
00:00:06
John
And my name is John Sonners.
00:00:08
johngrimsmo
And this is your weekly dose of manufacturing where John and John talk about kind of what's going on in their ever growing 10 year plus manufacturing business journeys.
00:00:18
John
I need this outlet partly because, you know, I just need like I create these lists and I get excited at the risk of saying I like talking about what I'm up to.
00:00:19
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:00:26
John
You don't even like that's the point, right? Yeah.
00:00:28
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:00:29
John
yeah I have a bunch of, actually, I said to you just before hit record, had a few things. I had a bunch of things. Some of them are quick, I a bunch things. But how are you?
00:00:36
johngrimsmo
Excellent.
00:00:37
John
Good. How are you?
00:00:37
johngrimsmo
Yeah, i got I got a few things.
Exploring the Watchmaking World
00:00:39
johngrimsmo
um I'll start with over the weekend, Grayson and I went to the Toronto Timepiece show, which is a the you know the second annual Toronto watch show.
00:00:49
johngrimsmo
And they didn't really have them before that. ah So it was in a much bigger venue than it was last year. And it was just super enjoyable. Go walk around, talk to watchmakers, both big and small. um Some local Canadian guys, like Toronto guys that are you know importing either complete watches
00:01:02
John
Uh-huh.
00:01:05
johngrimsmo
from Switzerland or they designed it, Switzerland makes them, they import them, or maybe they put the final touches on it or whatever to the guys that are making, you know, 80 plus percent of the components themselves.
00:01:08
John
OK.
00:01:15
John
Legit. All
00:01:15
johngrimsmo
Yeah. For many many, many tens of thousands of dollars kind of thing. Um, it was really cool. It was eyeopening. It was really good. Um, these one, one company from Montreal is making a quartz watch, which is usually not that special, but solar powered.
00:01:30
johngrimsmo
And the dial, and then they explained it to me, like the dial is so thin that it's transparent and there's a solar cell underneath the dial, but it looks white.
00:01:31
John
right.
00:01:36
John
No. Oh, that's cool.
00:01:38
johngrimsmo
It looks totally white. And like Citizen and big companies have been doing this for a while, but they're trying to do it themselves, like small scale, grow big scale kind of thing.
00:01:46
John
Yeah.
00:01:48
johngrimsmo
And yeah, it was just super great to nerd out with the guy and, you know, talk about what's going on.
00:01:53
John
Yeah.
00:01:54
johngrimsmo
And typically I would totally discount quartz watches because I'm now so into mechanical watches that I'm like, okay, but this is actually kind of cool. and they look really good. And he said, you could hide in a cave for 364 days a year and it'll it'll run.
00:02:08
johngrimsmo
And then one hour it'll charge it from sunlight.
00:02:09
John
No. For a year?
00:02:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:13
John
That's cool. the like the The whole like the fact that mechanical watches function as a battery to me is bueno.
00:02:20
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:02:20
John
It's really cool.
00:02:23
johngrimsmo
Yep. And then one of the guys that listens to our podcast and is in Switzerland, Torsti Lane, Lane Watches.
00:02:23
John
Yeah.
00:02:29
John
Yeah.
00:02:30
johngrimsmo
um I got to meet him. he didn't get a table. He had just invited people to his hotel room kind of thing.
00:02:35
John
Oh, yeah.
00:02:36
johngrimsmo
which was cool. It actually worked really well. He got like the deluxe suite with the table and all his brochures were out and everything.
00:02:40
John
Yeah.
00:02:41
johngrimsmo
And so Grace and I just had like an hour long, super close, like question session with this expert watchmaker from originally from Finland, but now in Switzerland, he like moved his whole family to Switzerland to pursue watchmaking.
00:02:55
johngrimsmo
Cause he's like, if you want to make it, you're going go to the Mecca and and do it.
00:02:58
John
yeah
00:02:59
johngrimsmo
And some of the things like I've heard stories, but to hear it firsthand, he's like, If you're not Swiss, they won't sell you parts.
00:03:07
John
Well, that's kind of what, i don't to put words in his mouth, that's kind of what our Australian friend said seven years seven years ago when I met him.
00:03:12
johngrimsmo
Exactly. Yeah.
00:03:15
John
Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:16
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:03:16
John
it's ah
00:03:17
johngrimsmo
And Torsti was like, ah you know, even moving here. It like helps a little bit, but it's not a green light to like buy whatever you want. and it's like It's weird. so
00:03:27
John
yeah
00:03:28
johngrimsmo
But it was cool. um It was great. His work is phenomenally, absolutely next level. Just gorgeous, beautiful, very inspiring. and
00:03:38
John
What was the name of it again?
00:03:39
johngrimsmo
ah Lane, L-A-I-N-E watches.
00:03:43
John
Lane watchers. if I'll take a look too.
00:03:44
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah, just take a look. and It's just beautiful, beautiful stuff.
00:03:46
John
Sure. Sure.
00:03:48
johngrimsmo
And I complimented him on his Instagram, like filming and the way he macro videos the watches. And I'm like, I watch everyone. It's like just so nice. um And you're familiar with Guillaume
00:04:02
John
The engine turning.
00:04:02
johngrimsmo
The
00:04:03
John
Mm-hmm.
00:04:04
johngrimsmo
Engine tree, exactly. Putting the beautiful decorative finishes. So he's got some old, um you know, 100 year old lathes or whatever that to do that.
00:04:10
John
Oh,
00:04:10
johngrimsmo
And he's quite the master at it. But he said it's very repetitive. So he's like, I'll just sit there listening to business and machining, like repeating these, these same things. And he's like, you know, it's like 123, you know, re rack or whatever you call it back to zero 123. And if you go for you've screwed up the whole part.
00:04:29
John
right, right, right.
00:04:29
johngrimsmo
It's just like doing that for two hours straight. Just one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. And if you lose count, if you lose concentration, if whatever. So
00:04:37
John
Oh, I can't not say it. That's got to be a CNC automated.
00:04:41
johngrimsmo
I know. So we had a long conversation about that and it's, it's scraping basically.
00:04:44
John
Yeah.
00:04:46
johngrimsmo
That's, that's the benefit of doing it like that. And like Hako has transformed his current to do scraping. Um,
00:04:53
John
Yeah.
00:04:55
johngrimsmo
spindle rotating controlled thing but uh it's a lot of a lot of effort to upgrade like his current my current to do that there's like weird stuff that has to be done um no but but uh sorry hacko does yeah yeah um but yeah anyway
00:04:57
John
Yes.
00:05:03
John
Mm-hmm.
00:05:06
John
Lean watches has a current. Oh, sorry. his' Okay, sorry. Yeah, sure, sure.
00:05:15
John
The idea too of like, it's kind of full circle to me of... you build a little machine, an engine, a guilloche is perfect because it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be terribly rigid or terribly accurate.
00:05:25
John
And then you have a, you know, a cam or some sort of a control system or a code, and then you can even have interval set up So it's like, okay, here's my x-way pattern and here's my interval where I go.
00:05:25
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:05:36
John
um We actually, I think did this years ago on the Tormach with a little experiment where every four intervals, it would go over and re-dip the rubber tool like a really hard rubber tool in a, um ah what do you call it?
00:05:47
johngrimsmo
oh
00:05:50
John
Like a compound. I can't think of the name. Grit.
00:05:53
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:05:54
John
the Sandpaper compound. Sorry, lapping, whatever. Anyway, really cool.
00:05:58
johngrimsmo
Yep. So that's like using a Kraytex or a rubber eraser or whatever, where you're just going vertical, like dot, dot, dot, dot. dot Right.
00:06:07
John
Yeah, correct.
00:06:08
johngrimsmo
Whereas guillotine is more like scribing and scraping along a circular or a linear pattern or whatever.
00:06:11
John
Okay. Okay.
00:06:14
John
Yes.
00:06:14
johngrimsmo
um
00:06:14
johngrimsmo
But all all kinds of different ways to decorate the, decorate the onion kind of thing. But, um but yeah, it was great.
00:06:19
John
Yeah.
00:06:21
johngrimsmo
was super fun.
00:06:22
John
I had to laugh last week when you spilled the beans on your love of watches.
00:06:29
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:06:30
John
So, you know, I've been talking about sort of on a personal side, you know getting the phones out of our bedroom and like detaching from them and all that. I still want to wait to tell what time it is in the bedroom, especially because, yeah, i wake the of the lot times in
00:06:39
johngrimsmo
e
Innovative Manufacturing Techniques
00:06:42
John
these restrooms.
00:06:42
John
Sometimes I'm like, is it 10 minutes before my alarm's going off or is it four hours?
00:06:46
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:06:46
John
And so I thought, oh, I bought a watch from, um 20 some years ago, I just graduated. i i stumbled across it in a store.
00:06:55
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:06:58
John
I immediately fell in love. It's one of the rare times in my life where I've just immediately seen something and won it. And at the time was maybe $800. So it was a huge purchase at the time.
00:07:07
johngrimsmo
Totally.
00:07:08
John
And it's from, ah so I believe this was company called Zemex, Z-E-M-E-X.
00:07:13
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:07:14
John
I am certain it's quartz because it takes a battery and it's whatever.
00:07:19
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:07:20
John
um the The motion is also that quartz like chunky.
00:07:23
johngrimsmo
Every second, yeah, tick, tick, tick, yep.
00:07:24
John
is Yeah, yeah. But I still love the look of it. And it sat unused for 10 years in a drawer. And I thought, well, there you go, John, just use the watch. So.
00:07:34
John
Pure coincidence. I'm just laughing because i I enjoy these nuggets of our stories over the years. I haven't touched a mechanical watch in 10 years. And that one day you say it, that watch is on my desk. I had 3D printed a tool to remove the back casing um to expose the battery, which worked.
00:07:50
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:07:51
John
And had a little O-ring that was like pretty much trash, but I'm going to go underwater with it.
00:07:54
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:07:55
John
So who cares? and And I replaced the battery, which is like not even remotely a legitimate watch task, but only compared to mechanical stuff, but it was fun.
00:07:58
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:08:03
johngrimsmo
Nice. Exactly.
00:08:05
John
Yeah.
00:08:05
johngrimsmo
and And there's, there's a we're also used to using our phones or computers or whatever to tell what time it is. There is a unit task beauty to a wristwatch that it's, that's all it does.
00:08:13
John
Yeah.
00:08:15
johngrimsmo
Like I i used to have a smartwatch back in 2017 or whatever. And I, once it broke, I stopped caring. I'm like, I don't, I don't want notifications on my wrist. I don't want any distractions. I don't want anything. So to have this beautiful piece of mechanical art that just does one thing, i love it.
00:08:33
John
Yes, that's awesome. What wear now?
00:08:35
johngrimsmo
ah Now I'm wearing a 1990 Oris that I picked up at a flea market for $360.
00:08:39
John
Okay. Yeah.
00:08:42
johngrimsmo
And I had a cracked crystal. I replaced the crystal. I did a full service on the movement. and Now it runs. It doesn't run perfectly. I think I was two minutes fast the other like when I checked it yesterday. And I was like, no, that's not good.
00:08:57
John
After how long?
00:08:59
johngrimsmo
It's been a couple weeks since I've touched it.
00:09:01
John
Oh, it doesn't seem to a bore.
00:09:02
johngrimsmo
But like like, I have a time grapher that that you put the watch on. It's like an acoustic microphone that senses all the ticks. It's pretty cool.
00:09:10
John
You really are further down this rabbit hole.
00:09:10
johngrimsmo
um Oh, I'm so deep down it. And I don't know, it runs good on the time grapher, but different in real life. So like I did something wrong or need to polish something that I didn't or need to loop something that I didn't or use too much or i don't know.
00:09:24
johngrimsmo
There's a lot to learn. you know You think you got your head wrapped around it and then you get actual results from your work.
00:09:25
John
yeah
00:09:28
johngrimsmo
And you're like, no, there's way more. like That's why people study for 10 years to do this.
00:09:33
John
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:34
John
But that's what seems, um that's what seems appealing. i don't have ah desire myself, but it so it does seem appealing is that it seems like you could choose how much you want to take on, like just servicing a fleas market watch or building a watch with off the shelf components.
00:09:34
johngrimsmo
I'm just playing.
00:09:45
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:09:48
John
And then you start making individual ones and swapping like that's cool.
00:09:49
johngrimsmo
Yes.
00:09:51
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it is la carte, which is super cool. ah Depending on availability of what you want to do and the market and things like that.
00:09:57
John
Yeah.
00:10:00
johngrimsmo
um Yeah, that's fun.
00:10:02
John
The other funny or coincidence to this is if you take your arm and you hold your arm straight out level with the ground, you're right.
00:10:04
johngrimsmo
you
00:10:11
johngrimsmo
In front of you?
00:10:12
John
great So that's john that's Johnny Five's arm, right?
00:10:12
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:10:14
John
And there's a motor, there's a gear motor in his shoulder that controls his arm pivoting um you know down and up, which is a lot of torque on a whatever, ten eight millimeter shaft of that gear motor.
00:10:15
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:10:19
johngrimsmo
i
00:10:27
John
and Springs are a wonderful device to help soak up ah some of that required torque. And so the way the inputting team built this is it uses a grandfather clock mainspring, which is powerful enough that when you buy it and you cut open the ah snip off the wires that hold the mainspring, you have to be careful it doesn't
00:10:39
johngrimsmo
No way.
00:10:49
John
like hurt you.
00:10:50
johngrimsmo
No way.
00:10:51
John
it's It's probably eighth inch thick steel, something like 12 mil, eighth inch, or sorry, half inch or 12 mil meters wide.
00:10:53
johngrimsmo
Oh, geez.
00:10:57
John
And it's probably four or five inches in diameter with, with I don't know, eight or 10, what you call spring loops, if you look, coil, thank you.
00:11:05
johngrimsmo
Coils. Yep.
00:11:07
John
And so um just actually, mean, I made great progress this past week on J5, which felt really good.
00:11:13
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:11:14
John
And one of the things i I had installed the springs, but I hadn't preloaded them. And so I'm finally ready to start testing the motor functionality and the motor does not have enough torque to to lift the arm on its own.
00:11:27
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:11:28
John
Well, and don't think it does, certainly not in a fluid way. So what you do when you're ready is there's two, um there's a drive plate that has two screws that act as pins in it. You pull those screws out and then you you like wind up the arm.
00:11:42
johngrimsmo
oh
00:11:42
John
I think it went two or three rotations that compresses that spring.
00:11:46
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:11:47
John
And then
The Johnny Five Project Update
00:11:49
John
unfortunately the arm, i there there's some question of what spring to use and what's available. It's it's a little bit frustrating. and um i I think mine should be a little bit more, have more power and it doesn't.
00:11:59
John
So the arm is not perfectly, I would say buoyant. i don't know what that word is, but it's close.
00:12:03
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:12:05
John
And now the motor definitely can can lift and lower the arm.
00:12:09
johngrimsmo
That is really, really cool.
00:12:11
John
Right?
00:12:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:12:13
John
I'll post a, uh, this Friday when this airs, I'll post an IG of the, um, of the arm.
00:12:16
johngrimsmo
please Yeah, and it it stays loaded. like It's not like a watch mainspring that unwinds over time. You're just preloading it two or three turns, and now it's lifting the arm by itself.
00:12:28
John
Yeah. The equivalent, guess the analogy would be like a tool balancer that hangs from the ceiling and where the tool, the eight pound tool is now weightless.
00:12:35
johngrimsmo
Yep. Cool.
00:12:38
John
Yeah, that's fun.
00:12:42
John
um
00:12:42
johngrimsmo
would What you got going on?
00:12:43
John
if you would what's Okay, here's my here's my, okay, one ah one one other Johnny Five thing I wanted to just share.
00:12:46
johngrimsmo
Thank
00:12:49
John
There's a ton of instances where you do have to use little bits of super glue, mostly around putting magnets into 3D printed ah parts that have pockets for the magnets that allow the covers to attach and detach.
00:13:01
John
um There isn't a lot of other super glue in terms of like, it's not a super glue build. Like it's a structural build that has fasteners, et cetera, et cetera. But nevertheless, there's quite a few instances where you're using super glue. And do you know about the baking soda trick?
00:13:14
johngrimsmo
ah Yes, from 1998, building RC airplanes. I learned the super glue and baking soda trick.
00:13:22
John
Okay. I want to hear what you how you explain it.
00:13:24
johngrimsmo
So yeah, building airplanes, if you need to fill a gap, you just literally sprinkle a bunch of baking soda in the gap and then put thin CA glue and it fills it, makes it hard, still grips to everything. And it's a total gap filler.
00:13:35
johngrimsmo
So yeah, I did learn that trick when I was like 13.
00:13:39
John
Awesome. um
00:13:40
johngrimsmo
But I've never told anybody.
00:13:42
John
Well, that's the thing too. It's like, if this helps one person. um So yes, it's great to help with as like a filler. But um the key thing that I like is that it basically, it acts as a catalyst and it significantly accelerates the curing.
00:13:56
John
I'm reading now from a Google spot.
00:13:56
johngrimsmo
Interesting.
00:13:59
John
It basically hardens instantly, which I care about because I put these magnets in and the magnets are, somewhere between a slip fit and a press fit, but it's needs some adhesion, but I want this done. Like i want to push the magnet in cause sometimes there's tape, eight magnets and I don't want the uncured super glue to then get on my fingers and all that.
00:14:12
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:14:15
John
And so I just have a little plastic jar of baking soda. You sprinkle a little bit on it's instantly hard. You can then tip it over, dump the extra back into the container or in the trash.
00:14:23
johngrimsmo
So it, it, uh, catalyzes the the reaction to start faster.
00:14:29
John
The reaction is due to bicarbonate molecules in the baking soda reacting with the cryo cyanacrylate, creating a reactive ion that promotes faster polarization to a strong durable bond.
00:14:37
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:14:37
John
I believe it also increases the strength of the glue.
00:14:40
johngrimsmo
Interesting.
00:14:42
John
Can be used as a structural filler or to strengthen joints. Minimizes shrinkage compared to CA glue curing on its own. But it is exothermic, so it creates heat. and ah so But it's like, it's great. I love it.
00:14:53
johngrimsmo
because i've I've used thin CA glue and it kind of stays wet for longer than you want it to if you have a glob of it or whatever. I did not know you could use a sprinkle to to kickstart it.
00:15:03
John
Yep, yep.
00:15:03
johngrimsmo
That's cool.
00:15:04
John
And it's way easier, like primers are, first off, it's another thing you gotta buy and have around or spray or put on.
00:15:08
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I do have the activator spray. I quite like that.
00:15:11
John
Well, I don't because sometimes The activator spray means as soon as the twos are joined together, they're done.
00:15:18
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:15:18
John
Sometimes you can't even get the thing like pushed in.
00:15:20
johngrimsmo
Yeah, like aligned or flat. Yeah.
00:15:21
John
Yeah. So the base was nice because you just sprinkle on when you're ready. And I believe many or most of the primers or accelerators we weaken the bot.
00:15:32
John
Not that that matters for 3D printed covers, but um it's been a real win.
00:15:33
johngrimsmo
you
00:15:36
johngrimsmo
That's super cool.
00:15:38
John
Um, and then ah other real quick one is I really love my computer. It's been another full kind of week having it.
00:15:46
johngrimsmo
The new, yeah.
00:15:46
John
Um, yeah, I don't remember if we, if I shared anything about this, but there was a mistake and they gave me 32 gigs of RAM. It was supposed to be 64.
00:15:57
John
So they just came out and swapped those sticks out because I was getting a memory error and in the Johnny five model, but it's, that's cause it's massive.
00:16:05
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:16:05
John
Um, but now I can open it, but um I'm going to put up an Instagram of all the specs, if anybody cares. The other thing I just learned, which I'm just going to share it, it kind of stinks if it's true, but I'm also happy.
00:16:16
John
But Instagram folks, gentlemen reached out and said, um if you can get rid of your RTX gaming, it's a graphics card, which I got the 5060. It's a gaming card um that's really good, but it doesn't offer as much benefit as a Quadro card does with things like Fusion, where it allows...
00:16:36
John
um the graphics card is able to then help support the CPU and computation. So I'll just leave that out there. I'm only a little bit frustrated because I tried to do this research ahead of time and ask people, reach out, Google around, et cetera.
00:16:48
John
And I didn't hear that. Like, that's kind of what I wanted to know. Like, just tell me what to buy.
00:16:52
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:16:52
John
And if you go to the Autodesk site, they list 783 graphics cards.
00:16:53
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:16:57
John
It's like, no, just tell me like, tell me four.
00:16:58
johngrimsmo
And and the the quick answer as to why this matters, you know why does RAM matter?
00:17:02
John
Yeah, right. That's great.
00:17:04
johngrimsmo
What does the graphic card matter? Things like that. yeah A while ago, there was people were kicking around a benchmark test. I never looked into it. Yep.
00:17:13
John
So I reached out to PDXCNC who did all that and he did a great job, but he um was kind of like, I don't think he's given it a lot of love lately and he was mostly focused on Mac stuff.
00:17:26
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:17:26
John
And again, not a great answer, but I don't really care. I just needed like a seven year upgrade. And this thing is, this thing is my kids would say, bussing, bussing.
00:17:40
johngrimsmo
That's awesome.
00:17:40
John
Um, it wasn't, I mean, the whole computer, like case power supply, solid graphics card, terabyte, SD, whole thing was under two grand. Like it wasn't, wasn't like I spent so what I think is an inordinate amount of money on some like mainframe desktop power PC, whatever.
00:17:48
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:17:54
johngrimsmo
Right.
00:17:55
John
It's like, I mean, yeah. but month
00:17:58
johngrimsmo
Not like Amish building a $100,000 for Linux. Yeah, yeah. pc for linux
00:18:03
John
Yes. That was crazy. That was a while back too.
00:18:06
johngrimsmo
yeah um I do have another glue point actually.
00:18:08
John
Um,
00:18:10
John
Shoot.
00:18:11
johngrimsmo
So I've always wanted to make a glue fixture. So watchmakers use these all the time. It's like so a small fixture with a grid pattern in it.
00:18:16
John
Yep.
00:18:18
johngrimsmo
um And then you glue your part right onto it. And for years after you, I've done the you know double-sided tape or two pieces of tape with the glue in the middle kind of thing.
00:18:27
John
Yep.
00:18:27
johngrimsmo
But a glue fixture is a metal flat thing that you glue your part onto.
00:18:28
John
OK.
00:18:32
johngrimsmo
And I had, what was I making? Oh, I wanted to blank out um a chunk a leftover chunk of damasteel into pocket clips.
00:18:39
John
and
00:18:40
johngrimsmo
And so I made my glue fixture, made it really good for fun. Me and Steve lapped it like really flat and shiny. um And then I glue my part on and I go, I, earlier that day I had made the glue fixture and then I go to make it and I cut the parts. And because it's glued down, I'm like, how rough, how aggressive can I go?
00:19:00
johngrimsmo
ah you know, so I went light. I used a high feet end mill that pushes downwards, not sideways kind of thing.
00:19:03
John
Yep. Come
00:19:05
johngrimsmo
And then for the last 10 thou, I kind of kissed it one thou at a time with a small end mill. just to like not put any sideways force and throw my parts.
00:19:13
John
here.
00:19:14
johngrimsmo
And it worked. It took a long time, like 45 minutes to do what shouldn't take that long but whatever it worked but I cut into my glue fixture by seven thou and I was like no I programmed this to be three thou over why are you ten thou lower than that on the speedio and so there's an error somewhere either in my tool touch off or maybe I didn't touch off the tool or something and I haven't fully dug into it yet but um
00:19:24
John
Come here.
00:19:28
John
Come here. Come here.
00:19:41
John
What was your ZDAM?
00:19:43
johngrimsmo
um fixture origins of like the bottom of the Aeroa.
00:19:49
John
Yeah.
00:19:49
johngrimsmo
but But I made the fixture to that datum, right?
00:19:52
John
Okay. That's a good rebuttal. That's a good rebuttal.
00:19:54
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly.
00:19:55
John
Yeah.
00:19:55
johngrimsmo
And, uh, and i retouched off the tool that made the fixture and it was with intense. And then I retouched off my cutting tool for the parts and it was off by like 5,000, which is like, what the heck?
00:20:07
johngrimsmo
Maybe I didn't touch it off. I don't remember. Um, this weird stuff like that.
00:20:09
John
Okay.
00:20:11
johngrimsmo
Like I don't, I don't spend all day, every day making new stuff like prototypes and, you know, so I'm
00:20:18
John
hook
00:20:19
johngrimsmo
I feel really bad when I make dumb mistakes like that, or or I can't figure out what the problem was. I'm like, shouldn't I be able to do this better?
00:20:28
John
Yeah.
00:20:28
johngrimsmo
But it's it's fun. It's good.
00:20:30
John
did it Did the fact that it cut into your fixture cause any problems other than the emotional scarring?
00:20:35
johngrimsmo
My pride. Yeah.
00:20:36
John
Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:38
johngrimsmo
and And I can very easily just make it again 10,000 deeper. um
00:20:41
John
yeah
00:20:42
johngrimsmo
So like, whatever. But still, I'm like, what the heck? No.
00:20:46
John
I watch, still watch most click spring videos. And he does this, he uses those on his little micro lathe where he'll have a, sometimes he'll dimple in the center of the part and then he'll use his tailstock to push it into the grid, like the waffle iron with the super glue.
00:20:52
johngrimsmo
any
00:21:00
johngrimsmo
oh yep
00:21:02
John
And then it'll hold no tape, like just direct super glue of the brass part on the, I don't aluminum or steel fixture.
00:21:05
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:21:08
John
And then he can turn the full side full face. it works great.
00:21:12
johngrimsmo
turning with superglue that's crazy yeah yeah your favorite um yeah and i'm using have you ever used the black ca glue
00:21:14
John
Yeah, he uses a lathe, which is a bummer. yeah
00:21:21
John
um Black Max.
00:21:23
johngrimsmo
Black Max, yeah. So Loctite 380, 480, or the new one I just learned about give me second, 438.
00:21:23
John
I do have some of Wait, 480 and then 438?
00:21:31
johngrimsmo
438 and 380. Okay.
00:21:37
johngrimsmo
four thirty eight and three eighty
00:21:39
John
So I own 380, which I didn't know there were other versions.
00:21:42
johngrimsmo
Exactly. and It's like, there's there's like 20 more, but those are the big ones.
00:21:45
John
Touche.
00:21:46
johngrimsmo
And they're all like slightly different formulations of whatever. I think 380 is, that's also what I have. It's like the bread and butter. Like, yeah, it's not cheap.
00:21:53
John
Yeah. It's not cheap, by the way.
00:21:55
johngrimsmo
Small bottle, it's like 20, 30 bucks or something like that for a small one.
00:21:57
John
Yeah.
00:21:58
johngrimsmo
But it's rubber toughened apparently. And it just adds a bit more cushion, not the the hard shock of a super hard clear CA.
00:22:05
John
Okay.
00:22:08
johngrimsmo
So it can help for stuff like that.
00:22:10
John
Yeah. No, but I keep the 380 we have is over by the Tormach because that's what we would use for super gluing on real stuff. And then i I chew, I mean, it's probably silly to be this frugal, but I use just regular old, uh,
00:22:22
John
Loctite brand. i had a my draw
00:22:26
johngrimsmo
Like superglue?
00:22:26
John
ah use this. Yeah, well, but I'm picky.
00:22:28
johngrimsmo
excellent
00:22:29
John
I don't like that. We used to so often i used to use the I know you probably can't hear me when i turn around. They would sell these 10 packs of like disposable, the little mini toothpaste tube ones.
00:22:41
johngrimsmo
Okay, yeah.
00:22:42
John
And I get tired of those. They like break out the backside and all all that.
00:22:43
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I don't use those. I use the big, like bigger bottles, like bigger than that even.
00:22:49
John
Oh, really?
00:22:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:51
John
I like, I like this Loctite it's on Amazon. It's 20 grams and it's not the gel. I don't like the gel usually. And what I like about this is it seems like the sweet spot size, because this will last me six months or a year it's it's eight bucks or something.
00:23:04
John
And then it doesn't get on your fingers. The cap is pretty good. And I don't really want to keep super glue for like three years. Cause I feel like it's, you know what mean?
00:23:10
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:23:14
John
Anyway.
00:23:15
johngrimsmo
Yeah, and then what the watchmakers do is they'll take the whole glue fixture and dump it in acetone and it dissolves. And that's what the grooves in the fixture are for so that the acetone can start to attack the sides.
00:23:26
johngrimsmo
And i was reading, if you scratch the side before the acetone attacks it, you're now opening a a path for the decrystallization depolymerization process to begin.
00:23:38
John
Interesting.
00:23:39
johngrimsmo
or in the acetone can attack it a little bit faster and it worked extremely well. um I just had like a little yogurt tub that was upside down with a quarter inch of acetone in the bottom and soaked my part and it's like within 20 minutes, it was completely off and then another 20 minutes and it's pretty much like toothbrush dissolvable after that.
00:23:49
John
yeah
00:24:00
John
I wonder if... um I wonder if you could put your part in a glass mason jar of acetone and put the whole mason jar inside and ultrasonic.
00:24:12
johngrimsmo
Yes, you absolutely could.
00:24:14
John
I just cleaned Yvonne's like wedding ring and I have a little, uh, it's my absolutely disgustingly filthy gun, um firearms, ultrasonic.
00:24:16
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:24:23
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:24:24
John
Like, i mean, it has just a carbon buildup that looks terrible, but like, okay, you put it in a little, uh, you put the, uh, the ring in a, uh, of, uh, I think it's DNA alcohol.
00:24:30
johngrimsmo
A little jar.
00:24:34
John
It works great.
00:24:34
johngrimsmo
yup ye Yeah, I did that to Meg's wedding ring too and I put it under the microscope and I'm sending her pictures from work and um she's like, I didn't even know it was that shiny. Like, holy cow, look at all the details.
00:24:44
John
That's hilarious.
00:24:45
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:24:46
John
Tell me you need your wedding ring for the white light interferometer.
00:24:49
johngrimsmo
Oh, I actually thought about scanning a diamond with that. It would be amazing. I'm like, oh I'm 100% doing that.
00:24:55
John
The most expensive part of that bill becomes the divorce.
00:24:57
johngrimsmo
yeah Exactly.
00:25:00
johngrimsmo
So, I mean, I'm happy to talk about the white light enderometer as my next point.
00:25:05
John
I was setting you up.
00:25:07
johngrimsmo
So the past week um I didn't go hardware, I went software. So I wanted to wrap my head around the computer side of what's required for this. And thankfully Cyrus put up a um Google Drive folder with some of his video files.
00:25:14
John
Okay.
00:25:20
johngrimsmo
So like you build a device and it's basically, you know, ah LED bounces off a beam splitter, goes down to your part, reflects off your part, goes back to the camera.
00:25:29
John
Okay.
00:25:30
johngrimsmo
And the LED also goes to a reference mirror and then back to the beam splitter and then up to your camera. And the interaction between the two arms um interferes the wavelengths and like shows fringes, basically.
00:25:42
John
I understand what you're saying, but like, I don't, okay.
00:25:43
johngrimsmo
is Yeah, it's quick and dirty. it It'll be easier to explain when I make a video of it. but So that's the hardware side of it. um And Cyrus already has video files recorded from his device that are just publicly available to use.
00:25:56
johngrimsmo
um
00:25:57
John
Phenomenal.
00:25:57
johngrimsmo
So I downloaded them and I'm like, sweet, now I don't need to do the hardware side to test the software side because I have valid video files.
00:26:05
John
Oh, you can just use his as if it were as as as a surrogate.
00:26:06
johngrimsmo
ah could be Exactly.
00:26:08
John
Oh, that's cool.
00:26:08
johngrimsmo
Exactly.
00:26:09
John
Sure, sure, sure.
00:26:10
johngrimsmo
So I can piecemeal my project as I want to, as I want to spend money or time or whatever. um And he used a program called Math Lab, which is like a big, fancy, scientific, like expensive, multi-thousand-dollar-a-year kind of program.
00:26:19
John
man Okay.
00:26:23
johngrimsmo
um There's an open source one called Octave that does almost the same thing. And I'm sitting there with ChatGPT for hours and hours, like basically writing my own conversion script to get from this video file.
00:26:36
johngrimsmo
And it scans through every frame, every single pixel on the screen for light, dark intensity, watching the...
00:26:40
John
Oh my God. You need a new computer.
00:26:43
johngrimsmo
yeah watching the fringes pass across the part and knowing what's high and what's low and it's pretty interesting how it does it and i've got that almost fully working
00:26:49
John
Yeah.
00:26:54
johngrimsmo
um And when I figured out the other days, you need another program called Gwydion that interprets the results from that and actually makes you a visual 3D map. And you can do a section view.
00:27:06
johngrimsmo
You can say, show me a cross section between this point and this point. And it'll give you like um like a heartbeat monitor, like ding, ding, ding of a cross section height map of your part.
00:27:14
John
OK.
00:27:16
John
OK.
00:27:17
johngrimsmo
So imagine you you put a 3D milled surface on there and you're like, how deep are the cusps of every ball mill?
00:27:17
John
Yeah.
00:27:22
John
it's just It's a second, literally section view.
00:27:24
johngrimsmo
is section view. Yep. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is gonna be so amazing.
00:27:26
John
Okay.
00:27:28
johngrimsmo
So I'm converting his files into that into that into that. And I'm getting like, actual results from this. And it is getting real exciting real fast.
00:27:38
John
Good. That's sorry. That's incredible.
00:27:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah. and And now as I come to work, and I do my work, and I'm like, man, if I had that thing right now, i would be using it, man, if I had that thing, I'd be using it like literally five times a day.
00:27:48
John
Yeah.
00:27:51
johngrimsmo
um So the one I'm building, I'm going to attach to my Zeiss microscope to save some time and money. But then can't help but think of like, what is a little tiny, you know, one foot by one foot cubed microscope interferometer size 3D printed device that I could make this open source, you know?
00:28:12
John
yeah yeah
00:28:14
johngrimsmo
Because for me it to attach it to my relatively specialized size microscope, like nobody else is going to do that exactly. So And I'm probably going to want more than one if this works really well, like one in the front shop kind of thing.
00:28:24
John
yeah
00:28:25
johngrimsmo
So like there could be the next phase is to build an open source like kit. Not that I'm going to supply it, but I'll put the bill of materials up in my notes and videos kind of thing, right?
00:28:37
John
But feels like the perfect thing where other people are probably going to be more willing to to share, pay for make it better. Because the reality is like you could pour four years into this and the reality is getting one month of feedback from other people is going to be a better.
00:28:43
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:28:49
johngrimsmo
that's That's a really good point, yeah.
00:28:52
John
Yeah, that's awesome.
00:28:53
johngrimsmo
yeah it's the i want one at home like it's it's gonna be really really really cool
00:28:59
John
The two things that are blowing up in my head are number one, your diffraction limited YouTube guy that blew me away.
00:29:07
johngrimsmo
yeah yeah you saw the micro manipulator video
00:29:08
John
And number two, Ren Zeddy. Yes. Incredible. I don't even think we should talk about it because it's just, I'm going to say it's such a strong, and i mean, you already mentioned it and I'm not going to double down as such a strong endorsement.
00:29:21
John
Maybe we can throw the link in the video notes.
00:29:23
johngrimsmo
Yeah, i'll I'll do that.
00:29:24
John
Um, or just if you Google search, uh, or YouTube search for, I believe it was called, um, diffraction limited, not unlimited diffraction limited.
00:29:33
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Correct.
00:29:35
John
um
00:29:35
johngrimsmo
And it's um what's called 3D printed micro manipulator is this big video, but
00:29:36
John
yeah
00:29:42
John
incredible.
00:29:42
johngrimsmo
Everybody listening to this will get a kick out of at least peeking at the video, whether you watch the whole 20 minutes or not. But like, it's really cool. And it's a great edit and a great narration and like, so good.
00:29:52
John
It's a like, I shouldn't say this out loud, but like continuing last week's kind of question of like, should we post more content?
00:29:54
johngrimsmo
Exactly.
00:29:59
John
i'm like, no guys like that are doing it a hundred times better than I would.
00:30:00
johngrimsmo
it exactly
00:30:04
John
So I'm going to just be a consumer of this content. um But the other one is in typical fashion, Renzetti put up a phenomenal video on Instagram this morning. You absolutely need to watch it.
00:30:14
johngrimsmo
I saw that. ah sorry I saw it. I saw it.
00:30:16
John
Tormach lathe tool setter. I'm like, what is he doing? I'm thinking like, is he built like a touch out, a touch probe that swings out? Nope. It is a kinematic three point mount that's removable with a carbon fiber tube that holds this um off the shelf, uh,
00:30:32
johngrimsmo
Amscope. Microscope.
00:30:33
John
Thank you.
00:30:33
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:30:34
John
Yes. And it lets him look at his cutting tool. And i not not that I had any doubt in my head because Robin's so good at what he does, but I wasn't really sure how, you know, like when you walk up to an optical comparator, I think many of us could get different answers on an optical comparator of ah of ah parts.
00:30:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah,
00:30:52
John
yeah The way Robin showed this through his camera, it's like, oh, that is dialed.
00:30:56
John
Holy cow.
00:30:56
johngrimsmo
yeah he said it's like an 80 times zoom like lens and how he kind of self centered it by putting a wiggler in there and like, yeah, the three point kinematic mounts with a big magnet to hold it down and the cathedral arch.
00:31:01
John
Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:07
John
The arch, what was it called? Like the cathedral arch dome balls.
00:31:10
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:31:11
John
So that's like the contact patch point is, yeah.
00:31:13
johngrimsmo
So the Hertzian contact is more spread out across the, and I'm like, you, him just explaining what he's already done teaches guys like us, like how to do more things.
00:31:15
John
Yeah. yeah
00:31:23
johngrimsmo
Like. Hmm.
00:31:24
John
You know, it's interesting you say that. I'm inclined to agree. i also think to some extent it's so intimidating that it also may be a bear. i don't mean this is in any way to throw shade at Robin or to say he shouldn't stop doing it, but I don't know that guys like him appreciate how far they've come. And it is a little bit of like, I'm not going to count.
00:31:40
John
Like he's shown in his videos, like how to contact, how to calculate the effects of gravity on a ah carbide tooling ball. Like that's, First of all, it's almost completely irrelevant for many of our applications in our lives.
00:31:54
johngrimsmo
But you never know. And even just that video he watched, i took takeaways from that that I will probably use at some point um or at least reference back to, you know, it's like and you don't know whatever you post, you don't know what it's going to hit, who it's going to hit, how it's going to hit, you know.
00:31:56
John
I know.
00:32:03
John
you know Which is great, which is great.
00:32:09
John
Right, right. No, and no, no, sorry. I feel like I'm making a mistake by saying this. I don't mean to imply that Robin should tone it down at all.
00:32:15
johngrimsmo
No, of course.
00:32:15
John
I just mean it is, it can be tough to follow along. and But what i love about Robin is he's never saying a single thing because he wants you to be impressed by him. We all know there's people that are like, I need to flex on you by telling you how much I know.
00:32:25
johngrimsmo
No.
00:32:28
John
It's not, it's Robin is so wholesome and it's so good, but it is, it can be tough to follow. um
00:32:32
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:32:32
John
and At least for a guy like me.
00:32:34
johngrimsmo
Yeah, he put up a, he was making what a cylindrical grinding ah thing, one of his YouTube videos, which is basically like a flat fourth axis for a surface grinder that will spin parts.
00:32:46
johngrimsmo
And he shows how he makes it and how he measures every needle bearing and like it intersperses them and all this stuff. And had to watch that video twice to really understand it.
00:32:52
John
Yeah.
00:32:55
johngrimsmo
But i was like, holy God, this is amazing.
00:32:59
John
Incredible.
00:33:00
John
Yeah. in The world.
00:33:00
johngrimsmo
And that's just what what he does and has been doing for million years.
00:33:04
John
Yes.
00:33:06
John
um Okay. are we Are we ready for just, are we ready to wait for next week to talk more about the white light interferometer? Is there more talk about now?
00:33:14
johngrimsmo
i'm I'm pretty good, yeah.
00:33:15
John
Okay. We have, ah there's two Lex updates I want to share that are worth sharing. And then also I got to give a tip of the hat to AI. Sorry, Meg. um We, I had this on my, to sort of like,
00:33:32
John
half active, half passive to do list. And then Rob Lockwood made a comment that pushed me over the edge, which was notebook LM. So I actually started to make my own little cheat sheet of what i what are different AIs good for, because i'm not I'm not an expert, but I'm an active consumer.
00:33:46
John
So ChatGPT is what I use every day. um Claude is apparently the best for programming code. um Alex here was saying that chat is really good at creating images, but but Gemini is better at editing images.
00:34:03
John
just throw i up Don't take that as gospel. And then um Notebook LM, which is a Google product, and I first came across it a while back because it's the one where you could put...
00:34:14
John
The example we did was we put links to national parks and and other stuff about national parks and it creates an NPR style podcast within like five minutes of two people bantering back and forth in an NPR fashion about like, if you've not seen this,
00:34:27
johngrimsmo
What? Actual audio?
00:34:30
John
Yes, John, complete. I mean, you would never know it wasn't real. if Like if I hopped in the car with you and turn that on, you would never be like, John, is this fake?
00:34:36
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:34:37
John
Like it's laughing banter. I'll send one to you when we hang up because it really is um just too cool.
00:34:40
johngrimsmo
No way.
00:34:43
johngrimsmo
That's wild.
00:34:45
John
But what Notebook LM seems to be good at for reasons I can't explain is Parsing through docs. So I uploaded all 20 of our Okuma horizontal PDFs, which printed out are probably four feet tall.
00:34:55
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:34:58
John
Like it's rivaling the intro guide to a FANUC manual and and uploaded it.
00:35:01
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:04
John
i don't know, maybe waited 10 minutes. And then I typed in a question. i was like, hey, how do I do this on this machine?
00:35:09
johngrimsmo
Oh, sure?
00:35:10
John
It responded with eloquent three different ways to do it with all cited references. John. I mean, it kind of goes back to the current schematic.
00:35:21
John
It's like, where does this pump deadhead like electrically?
00:35:22
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:35:23
John
Like it's just insane.
00:35:24
johngrimsmo
And the the sites are amazing because then you could just like go to page 457 and be like, oh, that's what you mean.
00:35:28
John
Boom.
00:35:30
johngrimsmo
okay
00:35:31
John
Yep.
00:35:32
johngrimsmo
wow
00:35:33
John
The other one is we figured out um that we can put, because we use our internal wiki through Google Sites, um but it's it's a protected thing that you have to be on our Sonar's domain
AI in Manufacturing Documentation Management
00:35:44
John
to access for because it's an internal private wiki.
00:35:44
johngrimsmo
but
00:35:46
John
We could put Gemini, I say Gemini, oh wait, I say, whatever, don't care how you pronounce Alex figured out how to hook up Gemini. so now our wiki, which the point of the wiki was to be and a place to dump information. And then the fact that it's Google search means it's pretty good to find what you're looking for.
00:36:07
John
But the real point was like, we all just know wiki is where you put stuff. Now with, we have an LLM on the front end, you just sort of say, hey, what ah what size go-no-gos do we send to our anodizer?
00:36:19
John
And it now tells you what Saunders does on its optimizing policies. Boom, done.
00:36:24
johngrimsmo
holy cow and that's a module you could add like a little search page
00:36:29
John
Yeah, done. ah hard The hardest part of figuring that out was the fact that most search results were trying to tell you how to create websites with with Gemini. Like, no, no, I have the site. I want to use Gemini as like the front end of the site.
00:36:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:36:42
John
And there's no haip there's no hallucination because it's only,
00:36:42
johngrimsmo
Cool.
00:36:44
johngrimsmo
You're on dinner.
00:36:45
John
Yeah.
00:36:46
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:36:52
John
The Lex updates are phenomenal quality of life improvements. Again, a big tip of the hat to Alex for this. One is that um we have a page now that I go to once a week because that was like kind of one of like a weekly report.
00:37:08
John
And I look at it, it lists all of the purchase orders that Saunders sent out in the last week, sorts by total total size of the item placed, purchased of the item.
00:37:23
John
So if we bought $6,000 worth of one screw, that's going to be at the top, regardless of the overall size of the PO, et cetera, et cetera. But like, I care more about the $6,000 screws than the $22 of washers whatever. washers or whatever um And it it cites what the item is, the price we paid this week for it, and in the last three times we ordered it and the price we paid with a color coded, um like basically within 10%, we don't care.
00:37:42
johngrimsmo
oh
00:37:47
John
And then above or below that, because this actually...
00:37:49
johngrimsmo
Okay. Yeah.
00:37:52
John
It obvious use but cases to anybody who's listening and understands purchasing like simple use cases. But what it came from was we ordered some raw material that was supposed to be saw cut and the ah the vendor flame cut it So it's on them, it's their mistake, but it's a lose-lose all around because we didn't know that they flame cut it.
00:38:13
John
And so it shows up we're like, we can't use this. And that stinks because it's that's literally thousands of dollars that is wasted for everybody. It's lose for us, it's lose for them.
00:38:21
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:38:22
John
And when I looked at the purchase history, it was... 20, 25% cheaper. And tribally, I would have known, we don't save those prices fluctuate.
00:38:33
John
They don't, they don't, that's too good to be true. And I would have caught it.
00:38:35
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:38:36
John
um
00:38:36
johngrimsmo
Interesting.
00:38:37
John
And that's not something that I can put on. Like, it's not somebody else's fault. It's just, I want to have one day a week or one moment a week where can look at, okay, here's all the stuff we bought. Make sure there are any red flags. Do we need to adjust prices? Does something get ordered incorrectly?
00:38:48
johngrimsmo
hey
00:38:48
John
Yeah.
00:38:50
johngrimsmo
Well, yeah, when ah like we track our purchase orders as well, and whenever I'm ordering something that's not like every day, day to day kind of thing, I want to know when did I order it last? How much did I pay for it last? And those are like the critical things and you got to dig for it.
00:39:03
johngrimsmo
And you've now created a little dashboard to like, just show me.
00:39:03
John
All right.
00:39:06
John
Yep. The other one, which is super simple, but we probably should have been doing it in the past is now when you push a PO, um a lot of times there are lots of PDFs that accompany that.
00:39:18
John
So there could be a quote, there's usually a sales order or confirmation, and then there's usually later on a packing slip, bill of some sort, certs.
00:39:22
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:39:26
John
And now all of our POs in Lex, you just take any PDFs you want, drag them over the PO and uploads and attaches them to the history of that order.
00:39:35
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:39:36
John
I think that's probably something that's ah like ISO type thing. I'm not an ISO guy, I don't know about it, but what I want to know if I can look back two months ago and say, hey, here's all the documentation that accompanied that order.
00:39:41
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:39:49
johngrimsmo
Yep. Yep. Find the certs for the thing. You just keep it all in one place.
00:39:51
John
Yeah.
00:39:52
johngrimsmo
That's the thing. I think we delude ourselves by thinking, oh, it's in my email. Like I can find it if I need to find it. um But to have it centralized is way easier.
00:40:03
John
Yep.
00:40:03
johngrimsmo
And like even even for us, we don't do a lot of it, but you know we send out for some water jet and we've got the Wazer water jet now. And eric Eric's like, what is the latest ah you know Norseman clip outline code? like Where do I find that? And I'm like, it's it's in GURP.
00:40:18
johngrimsmo
And then, ah sorry, of a DXF.
00:40:19
John
What do you mean outline code? Like G code?
00:40:23
John
oh Oh, oh.
00:40:25
johngrimsmo
like That's the file we send to water jet, right? Latest DXF.
00:40:28
John
Interesting. Yeah, that's a great, I didn't even thought about that.
00:40:29
johngrimsmo
And then, Yeah. So then he needs that because it's like, that's the shape of the rough cut. Like that never changes pretty much.
00:40:36
John
Sure.
00:40:37
johngrimsmo
And so he cut a bunch of Norseman clips and he's like, oh I thought you told me they were Norseman and Rask. Like it's the same clip for both. um So I just made a whole bunch of the one file thinking it would you know let you pick which Norseman or RAS clip you want to make from it. And I go, no, that's Norseman only. The RAS is a separate file um because whoever designed these files back in the day made them a quarter inch different hole spacing when they didn't have to me.
00:41:02
johngrimsmo
And so that that taught me the lesson of standardize your stock if you can um shape, hole size, flippability, all that stuff.
00:41:12
John
Wow. That's, yeah.
00:41:13
johngrimsmo
So no big deal, but
00:41:15
John
Well, no, but like, so do you rev try to rev track the DXF file name?
00:41:19
johngrimsmo
I put ah the date in the file name and, but these are like 2019 dates.
00:41:21
John
Okay. Yeah, that helps. Yeah, sure.
00:41:25
johngrimsmo
And you know, you look at that and you go, is that still accurate? Even though it is, but
00:41:30
John
Yeah, I know. i hear you. that's That's good to know. I didn't have thought about storing.
00:41:34
johngrimsmo
so,
00:41:34
John
we don't i guess we don't do that.
00:41:35
johngrimsmo
So that's having it stored in the location.
00:41:35
John
Yeah.
00:41:38
johngrimsmo
And if I tell everybody involved, like that's the latest one, like and everything in GERP is the latest one and that's helping.
00:41:41
John
yeah
00:41:44
John
yeah That's awesome.
00:41:46
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:41:52
John
ah What else?
00:41:54
johngrimsmo
um I'm struggling with ah our Norseman lock inserts right now. They're these thin little tiny, tiny pieces of ABL stainless steel.
00:42:00
John
Oh.
00:42:04
johngrimsmo
um We've been making for years. We machine.
00:42:06
John
The things you carburize, what do you call it?
00:42:08
johngrimsmo
ah We used to, we don't do that anymore.
00:42:10
John
Okay, okay. But I know that's what...
00:42:11
John
Okay.
00:42:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:42:11
johngrimsmo
We replaced that process with a hardened steel lock insert.
00:42:16
John
okay
00:42:17
johngrimsmo
And so we machine these things and there's some tight critical features and bores and counter bores and little tiny screws that go in them. um and engraving and a champ for 3d profile on the one side and it all has to come together and usually there's something wrong like the back chamfer is undercutting a little bit or the holes are too small or the end mill chips out or something like that and i've been fighting it for years and and they warp during heat treat so we got to like bend everyone and they're only half inch long how do you bend that just kind of overall pretty frustrating so
00:42:51
johngrimsmo
I'm tackling a tool wear issue right now where I've got 1 16th end mill that is, you know, when you 2d bore operation and it just goes down the outside of a bore and you know, it makes the whole, well, that wears the, at the corner radius of the end mill.
00:43:00
John
Sure do.
00:43:07
johngrimsmo
And I used a radius end mill with a 5,000 radius, like very small radius, but, and then I'm using that same tool to machine the, the screw head counter bore in this part.
00:43:18
John
OK, I'm with you.
00:43:20
johngrimsmo
And it's a very small little, very shallow counterbore. But same tool is boring down the cylinder and cutting the bigger diameter counterbore. And if the tool wears from doing too much boring, then the counterbore is chipped and too small and the head won't fit.
00:43:35
John
Yeah.
00:43:35
johngrimsmo
It won't see properly. And I never really thought about that as I was programming like same tool to do all these operations. um but now and and i'm not running parts like my team's running parts now um and i only hear about it downstream when some fit and into some don't fit and i like dig in with the microscope and like go nuts on it um so to reduce the headache scrap rate questionability honestly the white light interferometer is going to help with this a lot because i'll be able to see things like that like clear as day um
00:43:43
John
Sure.
00:43:51
John
Yeah.
00:44:03
John
Mm-hmm.
00:44:06
John
heard
00:44:08
johngrimsmo
So it's making me wonder about splitting the tools between one tool only does the boring and then another tool finishes the counter bore because it'll stay fresh. It's not wearing from cutting on the tips of the tool doing the bore the whole time.
00:44:19
John
Yes.
00:44:22
johngrimsmo
um Yeah.
00:44:24
John
Kern?
00:44:25
johngrimsmo
us Yes, correct.
00:44:27
John
Okay.
00:44:27
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:44:28
John
And can you, can you, instead of the bore, can you do a, is it pre-drilled?
00:44:34
johngrimsmo
Yes.
00:44:35
John
So could you not do a plunge with a center cut, like a center hole, plunging the center of the hole because pre-drilled and then do a 2D contour with it spiraling out?
00:44:44
johngrimsmo
I feel like I used to do that. And then I went to the bore for reasons, tool chipping reasons or chip evacuation or something. I can't remember exactly, but every, both of those solutions have tool wear issues that become issues.
00:44:53
John
Okay.
00:44:59
johngrimsmo
So so
00:45:01
John
ah Yeah, agree. We just went through this with one of our hobby fixture plates, which is aluminum. So toolware isn't really an issue, but taper can be and chipping the corners could be and
00:45:14
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:45:15
John
I'm also often find myself liking the idea of the 2D board, but we've been, we've switched some of them to that, what I said, plunging and interpolating out because I'd rather it use the full flute length, not wear those tips out.
00:45:23
johngrimsmo
2D pocket.
00:45:28
John
And I'd rather, if it breaks, I'd rather break the whole tool because then I can use break detect to flag it.
00:45:29
johngrimsmo
Agreed.
00:45:34
johngrimsmo
But the cool thing with bore is even if the tips wear, ideally you're spring passing with the upper flutes. Like as long as you go through the hole. And I find that does work.
00:45:44
John
Ah, is that right?
00:45:44
johngrimsmo
Like we're holding good hole size.
00:45:45
John
Okay. That's interesting.
00:45:47
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:45:48
John
hadn't thought of that actually.
00:45:50
johngrimsmo
it It does, you know, do the thing because you're spring passing as you go deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper.
00:45:50
John
Okay.
00:45:55
johngrimsmo
But yes, the tips get killed.
00:45:58
John
Yeah.
00:46:00
John
I'm just thinking the other thing we did with Borgs we do instead of repeat pass we are going through stuff where we care a little bit more about cycle time and instead of repeat pass would do the same thing again which is kind of stupid so there's a way in bore it's not hard it's you've got to deliberate with your settings where you can have a finishing pass that is a full finishing pass at full depth like a 2d contour and it the key though is you also want it to not come out of the stinking pocket oh um okay yeah it's funny it's funny
00:46:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:46:24
johngrimsmo
yeah I broke a tool like that. yeah
00:46:29
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:46:32
John
hu Huh. So what's the next step on that?
00:46:34
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Um... i ah I changed the end mill from a certain 1 16th to a two millimeter four flute tool for hard milling that I've been using more for general stuff.
00:46:46
johngrimsmo
um the The new YG1 X1 EH end mills, they're working extremely well for us.
00:46:46
John
Yeah.
00:46:50
John
Yeah.
00:46:52
johngrimsmo
um I'm actually quite impressed with them. where you We're using them for quite a bit of hard milling and more for like some soft stainless milling too.
00:46:54
John
Yeah.
00:46:59
johngrimsmo
And they do wear, everything wears, but yeah, it's good.
00:47:03
John
Good. um My last two... Oh, actually I had a quick question um because I'm going through specs on machines, including with Yamazen on Brothers. they and This is what i love about our community because it's like sometimes the end users like us and you guys are way more in the know.
00:47:21
John
And I don't mean that as a dig against the sales guys because the truth is that like just you know you know more when you're the user. They were unclear about... Well, first off, they didn't even know about the submicron option at first.
00:47:32
John
They were like, oh, you want the, like, basically the more look ahead. I'm like, nope, not the more look ahead, submicron option. Then they talked about schedules.
00:47:37
johngrimsmo
Is that what it's officially called, Submicron?
00:47:39
John
I believe so.
00:47:40
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:47:41
John
It's the fifth decimal. But then they were like, okay, you can do that, but then you have to post all of your code with five decimals.
00:47:42
johngrimsmo
I
00:47:49
johngrimsmo
i don't know.
00:47:50
John
And I was kind of like...
00:47:50
johngrimsmo
Maybe. Which is not hard. don't
00:47:53
John
It's not hard, but I was like, i don't know, like going back to like basic basic math.
00:47:55
johngrimsmo
yeah i don't know if that's fact.
00:47:57
John
I'm like, I don't like, I don't think to go one inch, you have to do 1.000000, but look, i'm I'm making this up.
00:48:01
johngrimsmo
yes
00:48:03
John
um You don't have any, any.
00:48:06
johngrimsmo
I post five decimals by default now, so I don't know.
00:48:09
John
Okay. Did you mod the post or is it a parameter?
00:48:11
johngrimsmo
I probably did, or I did it in the fusion post processor.
00:48:12
John
Do you know?
00:48:14
johngrimsmo
I don't know. I probably modded it.
00:48:16
John
Yeah, fair enough. Okay. Not, not a big deal.
00:48:19
John
I curious if had any comment on that. And then.
00:48:19
johngrimsmo
Interesting.
00:48:20
johngrimsmo
Yeah. And and like, uh, I talked about that in my Instagram post and somebody, I forget proto Hawk or whatever. Uh, he's like, I've been buying speedios for 10 years.
00:48:29
John
Okay.
00:48:30
johngrimsmo
I didn't even know this was a thing.
00:48:32
John
Funny.
00:48:33
johngrimsmo
And I'm like, Oh, well I needed it. I don't think everybody needs it. That's the thing, but it's, uh, yeah.
00:48:40
John
Yeah. And I don't, we won't need it on our first machine for sure. So, but I kind of want to just understand what, whatever it looks like now.
00:48:47
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:48:48
John
um Yeah.
00:48:52
John
Sweet.
00:48:53
johngrimsmo
Cool, man.
00:48:53
John
what are you up to? Anything up to today?
00:48:55
johngrimsmo
A bit more testing on the Norseman lock inserts. I have some final tool offsets I want to finalize.
00:48:59
John
oh yeah
00:49:03
johngrimsmo
And then just, I guess machining's to the point now where I get it to where I think it's good and then I just let the team run with it and then I only hear back if it's bad.
00:49:12
John
yeah yeah yeah
00:49:12
johngrimsmo
And it works. It works.
00:49:13
John
yeah
00:49:14
johngrimsmo
That's fine.
00:49:16
John
um That's really, we've now on, i don't know, a month or so of four weeks of of every day um or once a week sitting down with everybody and picking a part, picking something to look through. And it's really, it's been great.
00:49:30
John
I'm really glad we're doing that.
00:49:30
johngrimsmo
That's awesome. Yeah.
00:49:32
John
Yeah.
00:49:32
johngrimsmo
Are you tracking it over time?
00:49:35
John
No, just short answer.
00:49:36
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:49:36
John
No, I didn't.
00:49:37
johngrimsmo
It's just like live whatever's needed.
00:49:39
John
if And when I was preparing for this, I had sort of thought, okay, if we're struggling with stuff to come up with, then I want everybody to print out a list of the parts that they make and we'll just start crossing them off. But every time somebody's come with something to talk about, so it's like, don't overthink it.
00:49:52
John
Like, just start this and we'll'll we'll pivot as we go.
00:49:53
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:49:56
johngrimsmo
Sweet.
00:49:57
John
Yeah, agree.
00:49:57
johngrimsmo
Continuous improvement.
00:49:59
John
Yeah, exactly.
00:50:03
John
See you next week.
00:50:03
johngrimsmo
Cool, man.
00:50:03
johngrimsmo
Yeah, man.
00:50:05
John
Today.
00:50:06
johngrimsmo
Perfect.
00:50:07
John
Yeah, awesome. all right, take care.
00:50:08
johngrimsmo
Okay. See you then.
00:50:09
John
Bye.
00:50:09
johngrimsmo
Bye.