Transcript
johngrimsmo: Good morning and welcome to the business of machining episode 421. My name is John Grimsmo and this is a podcast where we tell stories
John Saunders: And my name is John Sanders.
johngrimsmo: ah mostly about our manufacturing journeys but also about what's going on and how how we're doing.
John Saunders: How are you?
johngrimsmo: i'm I'm good now. I'm home. I'm glad to be home.
John Saunders: home.
johngrimsmo: Just came back last night from Atlanta and success. Went down on a little rescue mission to rescue my stuck UPS packages.
John Saunders: Awesome.
johngrimsmo: And i did post about it on Instagram. Got most of the details on there. um Yeah, it worked. i don't know Well, it eventually worked.
John Saunders: Do you want it? I mean, I don't want to, part of me wants to hear it myself because I saw the stories and the audience, but i also i don't want to, if you are, you need a break, I totally get it.
johngrimsmo: yeah Sure, sure. um I'm happy to talk about it. It's like over now, so I can like look back, not fondly, but I could not care about it anymore.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um But basically the packages have been stuck down there. Like the first week of delay was a customs issue, which is fine. i'm not mad about that. it it sucks, but whatever.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: out of our control out of ups's control for that matter um so that missed our deadline for the show we had a show with no stuff and then and then it just kind of stuck for almost four weeks at this ups depot hub with they say they tried to deliver um to a ups store at 7 a.m but the stores ups stores never open till like 8 30.
johngrimsmo: so that's kind of weird um
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So anyway, and then it says the latest update was cannot return sender because it's already been delivered. And that's the message I got last weekend. And I'm like, no, it's not like I have air tags in them. It says it's still at the depot.
johngrimsmo: What's going on here? So a lot of phone calls with UPS and they basically said, oh, the request to return the package has timed out. And basically all we can do is deliver it to the store in Atlanta.
John Saunders: You're just calling the UPS like 1-800 number or had you managed to get, okay.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, basically.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: I tried so hard to get the ah any phone number for the UPS hub where it resides at the moment, and it doesn't exist.
John Saunders: Yes.
johngrimsmo: Even UPS corporate couldn't give it to me.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Even being there, like standing in front of their doors and talking to people. I talked to the ah employment lady um because it's the only only door I could walk in was the employment office.
John Saunders: yeah yeah yeah yeah
johngrimsmo: um So I talked to her and she couldn't give me a number other than the main corporate number. um But she said, she and as she's pointing, she's like, if you call the corporate and get them to put you in touch with dispatch officer in this building right here, then they can probably hook you up and get you that package. And they couldn't do that.
johngrimsmo: um So yeah, all that led me to fly down there, show up. um arrive at in front of the customer care center, which I've been to in 2019, I went to in 2024 and I retrieved my package, paid any duty fees, whatever, that's that's what that office is for.
johngrimsmo: And i there's a little tiny sign on the door as I walk up to it. I flew all the way here, rented a car, everything. I show up and there's a little tiny store that says, ah the customer care center is permanently closed.
johngrimsmo: And we don't we don't do that anymore. Any packages you need to drop off or pick up can be done at one of the UPS stores locally. And I'm like, what? And I look through the dark window and it's all tinted and it's it's a daycare. There's like kids toys in there.
johngrimsmo: And I'm like, what is happening here? and Yeah. So then I eventually walked over to the security gate and I was like, here's the deal. Like I need to talk to somebody. And she said, pointed to another building. Well, the employment office is right there. you could probably knock on the door.
johngrimsmo: I said, it was locked. I i couldn't do anything.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: She said knock until somebody answers. and I was like, okay.
John Saunders: Oh my god, yeah, right.
johngrimsmo: And then I did. And then super nice lady answered and, um, was as helpful as she could be. But, uh, Yeah. then I just spent the next hour on the phone with corporate and talk to your supervisor, talk to your supervisor, eventually talk to a nice guy who was, you know, trying to help.
johngrimsmo: And all he could really do was push the package forward and say, I'm going to put a rush delivery on it saying it'll go out to tomorrow morning, which means I'm staying over now. um And, and then it should be at the original destination, the UPS store near blade show ah tomorrow morning.
johngrimsmo: And i was like, they don't open till eight 30. Don't send it earlier than that.
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: Meanwhile, ah so the next day, i had a great day. I went antiquing. I went to like 10 antique stores and I was looking for vintage watches and I found some, but nothing like interesting.
johngrimsmo: um And then I went to a great comedy club, just open mic night, like with rookies pretty much.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um But it was it was rough in some places, but it was really funny in others. and small crowd. And it turns out, you didn't realize this till the end, there were maybe 20, 15 people in the audience.
johngrimsmo: um 13 of those were other comedians going up on stage.
John Saunders: ah Okay. So it's an intimate crowd.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, very intimate crowd.
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: And there's this one where the comedian was on stage and he was pointing at everybody. And he's like, he's like this, you know, cool sports guy over here in his Nike track suit. And then you got this nerd in the Dragon Ball T-shirt.
johngrimsmo: And then you got this guy in the middle with a blue T-shirt that says, I love machines. What's your deal, man? He's like, wait, an engineer or something?
John Saunders: It's awesome. It's awesome.
johngrimsmo: It was like, yeah, kind of something like that.
John Saunders: Actually, if if it was like open, open mic night and the guy's like, no, seriously, what's your deal? And you're like, so I flew down from, I flew to retrieve a package that UPS is effectively holding hostage at this point. That's a good story.
johngrimsmo: Exactly. And then they'd be like, well, here's a stage, man. Tell your story.
John Saunders: Right. Oh,
johngrimsmo: That was just funny. Um, anyways, I made the rest of it. Uh, great day. Otherwise i was like, by basically noon on that first day, i was like free. I was like, okay, well, there's nothing nothing I can do.
John Saunders: Mm-hmm.
johngrimsmo: So, uh, yeah, just had fun going around. Um, and then, yeah. So then the next morning i wake up, um,
johngrimsmo: like 6 30 i think i woke up and then i checked the track i checked my trackers i'm like oh the package has moved but now it's at the the atlanta airport like the big one um where or i flew into which is 30 minutes south of where it was anyway okay so it's moving it's on the truck that's good and then i watch and watch it and then uh at 7 30 i see it's at the store the destination and an update hits the UPS system and it says, store closed, try to deliver, we'll reattempt tomorrow.
John Saunders: oh
johngrimsmo: was like, are you kidding me?
John Saunders: Now I'm like in a go try fast truck truck down.
johngrimsmo: Exactly. And unfortunately, my trackers aren't accurate enough to like follow a truck um because they only update every so often when they ping another Samsung phone.
John Saunders: Oh, interesting.
johngrimsmo: So maybe like 20, 30 minute updates um if it's on the move. So that's a hard to like track down. um And then that that supervisor I talked to promised he would call me at, you know, eight or 9am and like touch base never did punk.
John Saunders: sure Yeah, of course.
johngrimsmo: um So anyway, I'm like, freaking out, because I'm like, what it's delivered. And I saw the message, you know, 1015 minutes after that fact. So like, it's not gonna still be there.
johngrimsmo: But let me go there anyway, because my my hotel was like four minutes away from the UPS store.
John Saunders: Sure.
johngrimsmo: So I I shower quick, get in the car and just go to the UPS store. They're closed for another hour. And I'm like, okay, well, just sitting there waiting.
johngrimsmo: Um, once the guy opens, I go talk to him and I was like, dude, the guy delivered like at seven 30 and nobody was here. And he's like, yeah, I don't know want what to tell you, but I've never seen a truck before 10 AM. And, and,
John Saunders: Yeah. yeah yeah
johngrimsmo: and and Okay, so then I sneak back to the hotel and get the continental breakfast before they close it and get some food in me and then come back um to the hub around or to the store around 930 and just kind of wait in the car. And it's like Atlanta hot.
johngrimsmo: So I'm like i idling the car with the AC on.
John Saunders: Oh.
johngrimsmo: I feel bad. um That's the beauty with the Tesla is you can run the AC and not have to like burn fuel. You're just...
John Saunders: Oh.
johngrimsmo: Right?
John Saunders: burn that burn Well, you were still burning fuel.
johngrimsmo: The car. Well, you're still burning electricity, but you're not running the car. It's just, I thought that was interesting. um Anyway, around, I forget exactly the time, but like 10 a.m. or so, i see this UPS van drive up and I'm like, oh my gosh, ah holy cow, holy cow.
johngrimsmo: And then the guy jumps out and I'm like standing there right beside him. And then he opens the door and I see my two packages and I'm like, hallelujah. And he had his earbuds in and he didn't really see me like freaking out until he turned around. He's like, ah, what the...
johngrimsmo: I'm like, you just do you have my stuff, your lifesaver, man. Like, appreciate it. um Although he said, if even if I was there at 730 when he was there, i wouldn't have been able to receive the packages because they're going to the store and the store would have to sign off on them.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So it's maybe I could have if I really twisted it off because my name is also on the package. But like, I don't know. Anyway, all worked out.
John Saunders: Yeah. i and then are you wanting, are you willing to share more about what, where they're at now or is that?
johngrimsmo: They're at a friend's house in Buffalo um because I didn't want to import them back to back to Canada.
John Saunders: Yes. Yes.
John Saunders: Sure.
johngrimsmo: ah I could have tried. and could have been like, look, this is my stuff just returning back. But Canada doesn't like to import knives like this and we can make them here. We just can't bring them in. So I just didn't.
John Saunders: Well, plus the whole, like, I don't want to pay double duty again or explain the story again or get flagged for three hours in cuss.
johngrimsmo: Totally, it's just dumb.
John Saunders: Like, I we totally understand that.
johngrimsmo: Exactly. Yep. So it is a hassle leaving them in Buffalo and having a friend ship them for me, or I will go visit many times and help facilitate all of this. Like it's, it's work, it's going to take work, but whatever it's, it's a solid plan and it's, um, I'm in control, you know, and that's something I realized through this whole process is like the, the act of flying down there puts me in control.
John Saunders: That makes sense.
John Saunders: Yes.
johngrimsmo: And I kind of wanted to do this like three weeks ago.
John Saunders: Yeah,
johngrimsmo: Um, because I like being in control. I don't like being just, you know, a leaf in the wind kind of thing of the UPS system and anything I can do to gain that control really helps.
John Saunders: yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: So yeah, this Buffalo plan puts me in control and 90% of our products ship to the U S anyway.
John Saunders: Yeah, sure.
johngrimsmo: And like, it's, it's fine. So.
John Saunders: Dude, these, whatever aren't claimed or sold through Bladeshow, these need to become the the Atlanta knives.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, and we might say it on the product pages as like, you know, the missing Atlanta knives.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And actually, had one comment.
John Saunders: I want, I want like, if there's a pen in there, it's like, that's like, I want that pen. Like I want the pen that I know has been in Kentucky and been in Atlanta, has lived in a nutcase for four weeks.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yep, five weeks. And you you might say that pen has a saga to tell.
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Actually, one of the comments on Instagram was was pretty interesting. He's like, you're saving all these for Blade Show West, right? um It's another Blade Show in, I think it's in Portland in October, which I've never been to.
johngrimsmo: But I'm like, that's not a terrible idea. save some of these for the next blade show. Um, I might consider it, but I know some of these have already sold at the show. People, we had about five people like shove money in our face and be like, no, no, I'll just, I'll buy it now.
johngrimsmo: And you ship it to me whenever.
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Um, and that's fine. So I want to make those guys right, obviously, but, um, but yeah, so now I'm home.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: My stuff is an hour away in a safe location and I feel fine.
John Saunders: Good.
johngrimsmo: Like it's over.
John Saunders: Yeah, the saga is awesome.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah.
John Saunders: I'm really glad to hear that. We were all kind of like, I think, following along with the Insta stories of like, what's, you know, what's the next move? And there's something that's oddly helpless, I think, feeling like, you know, you're standing outside a gated fence.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah.
John Saunders: Obviously, you know, you don't want to get arrested for sure.
johngrimsmo: Totally.
John Saunders: Like on the flip side, this is not like, really, this is not acceptable.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um And I, shoot.
johngrimsmo: Oh, there's another part of that story. um So I arrived at the UPS hub at like 8.45, 9 a.m. m And this customer care center used to open at like 8.30.
johngrimsmo: So I'm like, sweet, right on time, just opened up.
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: Talked to the employment lady, talked to the guy on the phone for a while, and basically just sat in the car for a total of three hours. Like it was noon by the time. i was like, I should probably move on like...
johngrimsmo: This is now settled. And then I received a phone call from a lady in the hub who's looking for my package.
John Saunders: Unbelievable.
johngrimsmo: Right. And she's like walking around and she's like, she's like, Hey, I heard the story.
John Saunders: Yes.
johngrimsmo: Um, I'm trying to retrieve your package so we can put it on the truck tomorrow morning. I can't find it, but my supervisor, like internally, my dispatch or whatever, um, um, I called her and she said she has seen it.
johngrimsmo: Uh, she remembers seeing two, you know, travel cases and, uh, And so she says when she gets in tomorrow morning early, she she will make sure this happens.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And I'm like, um ma'am, i'm I'm parked outside the gate right now. like and what you know What's it going to take for me to get these packages right now? like
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: We can end this right now.
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: And she's like, oh, we don't do that anymore. We don't do the customer care center. I'm like, I'm, jeez, I'm like right here, dude.
John Saunders: So if I can stand on my soapbox, and this is more just general commentary, not in any way, in any way, imply how you should have handled it.
John Saunders: But I have a friend who is involved in all said law enforcement and and some other experiences back from like the New York days where they're,
johngrimsmo: Sure.
John Saunders: combination of sharp elbows, zero, you know, what's given, like just a different mentality. And especially in the law enforcement side where it's like, you see these private companies or organizations or things where it's like, I'm sorry, sir, we do not do that anymore.
johngrimsmo: sure
John Saunders: And it's like, oh no, I don't think you understand. You're in possession of stolen property. So it's like, do you hire a lawyer? Do you call the police? Like, I don't mean like I'm sitting here telling you how you should have done that.
johngrimsmo: yeah sure
John Saunders: I just think you were so, good about figuring out how to like property like listen
johngrimsmo: and that would that would probably work my my brain doesn't go there it's interesting yeah
John Saunders: It would work. And you you also have to get these people out of this mentality of like, oh, I'm sorry, sir, we don't offer that service anymore. I'm like, I don't think you understand my point. Like, you know, you don't get to do this.
John Saunders: And I don't know what the terms of service say, but like, especially if you get a real attorney involved, things often will change.
johngrimsmo: Sure, yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah.
John Saunders: They can change for the worst too, depending on like the nature of the circumstances where they can then, they can then hunker down.
johngrimsmo: Mm-hmm.
John Saunders: But anyway, um, Or, or it's like, you find this is like a little bit, can be a little sus, but like you find the employee parking lot and you give a guy a hundred bucks and you're like, this is the goal. If I need to tip somebody else, you tell me, but like this needs to happen today.
johngrimsmo: That's I didn't think about that. I did see a lot of employees and I kind of parked beside the employee in like the pickup zone um because everything else was pretty gated.
John Saunders: Yeah. yeah
johngrimsmo: And like the actual employee parking lot, you got to scan your past. You got to get in itself and stuff.
John Saunders: Sure.
johngrimsmo: um But all I could do is kind of hang out in this bus loop um where everybody's waiting for their rides kind of thing. And I saw a whole bunch of employees walking in with badges and I was like, I don't know, but my brain doesn't go there.
John Saunders: Yeah, fair enough. Totally. And like, you don't you don't get like arrested or steal badges.
johngrimsmo: tempting though. Yeah. Of course, but like, no, but even still, it's like, i contemplated getting out and talking to one of these people, but then I was like, these are just, they have no power for this.
John Saunders: and
johngrimsmo: Maybe, I don't
John Saunders: Yeah. Right. Interesting.
johngrimsmo: know. Anyway, got it done.
John Saunders: Got it done. fine yeah
johngrimsmo: good Yep. Over, move on.
John Saunders: Done. Move on. How's life? What else is going
johngrimsmo: life is good. So um I got two other points. I think last week we talked about the current float, coolant float being down.
John Saunders: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: And then what's the other?
John Saunders: The contactor, relay, all that stuff. Yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yep. Yep. So I got that fixed.
John Saunders: Thank you.
johngrimsmo: And then i want to talk about the M2 steel for the buttons.
John Saunders: You can't just say you got the current fix. I'm going to need more.
johngrimsmo: Well, those are my two topics is all I'm saying.
John Saunders: Oh, okay.
johngrimsmo: um So in my mind, it was fixed. And then I'll fast forward to this morning as I'm walking in for the podcast. And I see it
John Saunders: Actually, that's the new MO for this podcast. We give you these multi-episode stories and then we just say it's fixed and we move on without giving you any any resolution or closure to it.
johngrimsmo: it's It's fixed move-up.
johngrimsmo: Well, I knew it was fixed before the Bladeshow trip and the machine ran for a good day. And then I went down to Atlanta and as I'm walking up this morning, I see a sea of water um drying from the concrete outside the building.
johngrimsmo: And I'm like, okay, maybe they were just hosing something off.
John Saunders: Oh.
johngrimsmo: And I look like at the building under the garage door, it's totally dry, but the concrete outside is wet. I'm like, okay, so I don't think it's a leak from the inside. um and i haven't talked to the guys but i'm i peeked inside at the current it's still running it's not leaking and they must have been just they host something off outside but that kind of freaked me out for half a second uh walking in this morning but anyway um so i was able to hats off to you because uh you said chat gpt can read electrical schematics oh can it ever
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: Oh, yeah.
John Saunders: So, okay, to give everybody an update, we talked about this the podcast. We hung up the podcast. I asked ChatGPD this question. was like, can you read it?
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: And it was like, yep. It was like, absolutely. Upload the schematic. I'll do my best to explain everything that's going on layman's terms. I'm like, I think I screenshotted that to you. I'm like, this is nuts.
johngrimsmo: yep
John Saunders: Okay, so.
johngrimsmo: And so I did. So I uploaded the 136 page ah current current electrical schematic to ChatGPT.
John Saunders: ah
johngrimsmo: Actually, I wonder if there's any legality to that.
John Saunders: no
johngrimsmo: i don't I don't care. But yeah, I don't care.
John Saunders: says the guy who's not an attorney and has not qualified to say, yeah, I don't care. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Anyway. um
John Saunders: Kern isn't in the business of suing, whatever.
johngrimsmo: church if
John Saunders: Yeah. No, suing paying public customers.
johngrimsmo: Exactly.
John Saunders: Anyway.
johngrimsmo: um But I said, i i uploaded the whole document. I said, I have this issue. the the There's some sort of electrical issue between this part number plug and this part number contactor.
John Saunders: Oh.
johngrimsmo: And it was able to help me trace every wire and every ah relay and computer and everything in the path of that. And I could go through one moment. It was suggesting things like that.
johngrimsmo: I tell it the problem. It tells me something to check and I check it.
John Saunders: on William.
johngrimsmo: It was pretty freaking cool. And it caught things that I couldn't follow um because I'm not at all at any good at looking at electrical schematics.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: I can kind of do it. but um And the the the current schematic is pretty cool because it's clickable. So you can click to jump to the next page, like 40 pages past to follow the thing, but it only goes so far.
John Saunders: That's nice.
johngrimsmo: um
John Saunders: Oh, but meaning on page 22, if there's a ah wire number 537, you click 537, it will jump you to that wire on another page with that wire.
johngrimsmo: Yep, yep.
John Saunders: So that's really nice.
johngrimsmo: It is really cool. It's got these little arrows that like, you know, the electrical wire and then a little arrow and you click on the arrow and it jumps you to page 600 and whatever.
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: Dude, tip of the hat to them for doing that.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, it and that must have been a lot of work to make that PDF, but super helpful.
John Saunders: Yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: um So I confirmed that the floats work fine. I got the contactor. I sort of took it apart and sanded all the contacts and just I should replace it, but I know it works right now. I know it works fine.
johngrimsmo: um And then it turns out the problem is i traced all the signals going in and they all come into a PLC box, like a little computer with, you know, 10 inputs, 10 outputs and a whole bunch of LEDs.
John Saunders: okay yep
johngrimsmo: And that basically the input goes to that PLC box, which tells the Kern control, the Heidenheim, that, oh, the float level is at the top and this light just went on.
johngrimsmo: Therefore, the PLC program on the Kern or whatever is supposed to spit out an output to another contact and then turn on the contact door and then turn on the pump.
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: um So the PLC box is receiving the input. It's not giving the output. And I was like, that's weird.
John Saunders: What?
johngrimsmo: And if I unplug those two wires and touch them together, the pump turns on.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So
John Saunders: PLC, both asking and saying, a PLC here in this case is ah kind of like an Arduino or a computer, meaning that's it's a so truly, I assume fully solid state device that has, like you said, the intelligence of that.
johngrimsmo: yes.
johngrimsmo: Correct.
John Saunders: Weird. You would not think those that mean, those are, well, I said that relays or content are generally robust and somebody messaged us and was like, they're not, they're not like they absolutely fail.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: So touche, I'll happily stand correct on there, but you wouldn't think this would fail.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: But go ahead.
johngrimsmo: No. and So i um I took that whole computer out. I popped the case off. I looked up at every contact under the microscope. I looked at every chip because sometimes you'll see a little blown transistor or something um or a capacitor that's exploded or something and zero wrong with it.
John Saunders: Mm-hmm.
johngrimsmo: It is absolutely meant in perfect condition visually. um And there's just a whole bunch of little like surface relays and transistors and MOSFETs and whatever on this little board. Now, Kern has like six of these in a row.
johngrimsmo: And they all have the exact same part number. So it's like, you know what, screw it, I'm just gonna hot swap two of them, and then plug them into each other. Like, so I'm just swapping. Like, if one is bad, it's gonna make something else broken. And it's gonna fix this problem.
johngrimsmo: You know what mean? It's kind of dangerous, but I tried it.
John Saunders: Yeah, because some of those have code loaded to them, but OK.
johngrimsmo: I don't think so. i know
John Saunders: This is a dumb device?
johngrimsmo: I don't know.
John Saunders: OK.
johngrimsmo: That's a good question. ah I don't know. Anyway, I tried that. ah The problem still persisted, which tells me that PLC box probably works fine.
John Saunders: OK.
johngrimsmo: um Therefore, I think I've eliminated all mechanical hardware issues, and i I'm leaning towards the problem being inside the Kern code PLC something, but I don't know.
johngrimsmo: So short of getting Kern fully involved with this, which...
John Saunders: This isn't resolved?
johngrimsmo: It's well, that is not resolved, but I found a workaround.
John Saunders: Oh, okay.
johngrimsmo: If I take these two wires off and I touch them together, the pump turns on. And i was like, well, I can't leave them together because then the pump is always on. I want the pump to only turn on when the float sensor goes up. So I needed to reverse the signal.
johngrimsmo: from the wire because the way it works is when the pump when the float is like in the middle of the range it's it gives 24 volts and when it hits the top or the bottom it pulls it to zero uh but the relay needs i forget how this works anyway i had to install my own relay in there that flipped the signal when it's 24 it gives zero when it's zero gives 24.
John Saunders: Okay.
John Saunders: Okay.
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: so i uh ran to the electronics store and i picked up a you know, what is it? One, one pole to exactly that one.
John Saunders: Single pull double throw type thing.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Um, and I was able to wire that in and, uh, and it works fine.
John Saunders: Dude, awesome.
johngrimsmo: So it's like hacky temporary, but I'm like, All that's wrong here is now the PLC on the current doesn't know that this is happening.
John Saunders: Yeah, sure.
johngrimsmo: But does it need to know? There's no downside. i don't care. So I got to draft up like a fully melted current and be like, the problem is between here and here, between input and output. And um put in this relay and this is, you know, please advise what the next steps are.
johngrimsmo: um And that's where I'm at. But it works. Works fine.
John Saunders: If there's an empty output um input or output pin on that but PLC thing, then ask Kern if you can just try a different IO.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, there isn't.
John Saunders: Okay. Got it. Fair enough. got it
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um You can also like we use the PLC clicks, the but from Automation Direct, the clicks, click plus, pretty inexpensive.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: It's actually what we'd heard about them. They're kind of become like like the Arduino of the PLC world.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: And we're super easy to use. You don't have to like buy My understanding with PLCs from like Siemens or other blue chip type companies is that number one, it's more complicated and burdensome to to get into, but also you you often have to pay ah hundreds or thousands of dollars for the software, whereas the Qlik software is free.
John Saunders: um So I've had them on my radar. Also, one of those things I didn't buy because I find buying something doesn't have any correlation to me actually using it or larger. But then when Marcus and Willimon were here doing the UR install, they're like, yeah, absolutely.
John Saunders: You want the click. This is how we're use it.
johngrimsmo: Oh, yeah.
John Saunders: So, so we're using it there. So you could potentially just take the click and take the signal pins you need from the float and, and do it that way.
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: who And who, like, ah kind of like who cares if it's physical water levels. I don't know why, why would the Kern's overall motherboard need to be involved in these?
johngrimsmo: Maybe for diagnostics or something like that, like, because the hide and hide wants to know everything that's happening pretty much.
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: yeah
John Saunders: Yeah, right. In like some e-stop condition, I guess, maybe, but like whatever.
johngrimsmo: Because, yeah, well, and that's the thing, my because I got to choose where I'm pulling 24 volts from, um at first I found this this terminal block that had 24 volts to it.
johngrimsmo: And then I plug in my pump and it runs for 59 seconds and drops out for one second. And then it gives 24 volts for 59 seconds and it drops out for one second. So I'm like, hold on.
johngrimsmo: And the pump was like, it worked, but the pump would just cut out for a second. Put my multimeter on it, watched it, literally timed it on my watch. i'm like, dude, literally every 60 seconds, it drops the power for like half a second.
johngrimsmo: And then I asked ChatGPT, I'm like, what's going on here? And they're like, oh, that is probably like an e-stop safety circuit ah interrupt. And PLCs will often use that. logic to, you know, it's like a signal thing. And they're like, don't use that.
johngrimsmo: So then I'm like, okay, give me a good terminal for 24 volt solid. And they're like, oh yeah, look at T15.2.
John Saunders: Unbelievable.
johngrimsmo: And i was like, okay.
John Saunders: Yeah. unbeevable front yeah
johngrimsmo: And now the only problem with that terminal that I'm using is it still has power during e-stop.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um So it got me thinking. The pump will still run during e-stop condition, but is that okay? Because if there's too much coolant in there, it's going to run normally until there's no more coolant and then it's going to turn off.
johngrimsmo: So like, that's kind of a good thing. I think the downside is maybe in a worst case scenario, I could burn out the pump if it something else fails and it just runs forever.
John Saunders: the My understanding of the safety code in the U.S., don't know Canada, but I'm assuming it's the kind of the same or or frankly stricter, was e-stop has to stop everything and like in the sense that like somebody, I don't know, if this pump isn't going to take a handoff, but e-stop has stop it off.
johngrimsmo: true
John Saunders: And you could actually easily tie in another device that senses the e-stop condition, and and then that could be an inline relay, then it turns out off you're done.
johngrimsmo: and
johngrimsmo: True.
johngrimsmo: Yep, yep. And then I'm trying to reinvent the whole wheel here when the reality is something is wrong.
John Saunders: know, I know.
johngrimsmo: And, you know, hopefully current can advise. Otherwise, I think I have a solid, you know, temporary slash semi permanent solution that works.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um
John Saunders: But yeah, John, if the current solution is $7,000 for a tech and parts to come out, I'm like, yeah, I'm good.
johngrimsmo: I'm good. Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Exactly.
John Saunders: Okay, my ChatGPT update thing. First of all, just continue to be blown away with it, which I know I sound like a broken record.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um Two things. One, we have a... i not i'm I'm on the struggle bus with Johnny Five, which I'll share a little bit about. One thing is I broke... um there are these um sort of fist sized 24 volt asme or asm yeah asme is the four layer asme 05 super torquey servos so it's a dc um dc gear motor that or dc motor that has a gearbox um that
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: has significant gear reduction hence the torque and then on the output shaft there's also a potentiometer that makes it a quote unquote servo i've no idea if it's a true servo but for all in intents and purposes it says servo blah blah um the final two output gears i broke them the other night so like this this guy and a matching
johngrimsmo: Oh, that's metal.
John Saunders: It is metal. And so a couple of quick research bits turned up some fellow builders who have had problems with these. And there's a question of whether the man the OEM would send them with hardened gears.
John Saunders: And then and the other builder, Terry, was able to take the gear out and heat treat it, harden it. And he was only able to check with a file, but, you know, pretty you know, it filed easily before he, he map gassed, he treated it and quenched it in canola and he couldn't get a file to touch it and his had been working great.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah.
John Saunders: So very much passes the, you know, basement heat treat test. And I thought, well, great, I've got even better equipment. So I asked ChatGPT exactly that, Chinese gear, don't know what it is, hardness broke, helped me out. And it gave me this explanation, John, that was just so rich. It was like, here's you here's how you could do a spark test.
John Saunders: Here's the heat treat. I would go 1475, don't go above 1500, look at the cart, it'll tell you the carbon content. Here's the temper recommendations. Like just insane. um
johngrimsmo: yeah
John Saunders: And then punchline didn't work, didn't harden. So then I told ChatGPT that. It's like your only other option is now a case knit or cherry red to case harden it, which basically if this doesn't have enough if it's a lower grade or just type of seal that won't accept a heat treat, then the only thing you could do is add carbon with something like cherry red, which is like powder that you heat treat the part in, you heat treat the part and then you, um, ever done this job?
johngrimsmo: No.
John Saunders: Oh yeah. You, uh, like take the part, coat it with this stuff and then you keep baking it and it infuses carbon in the outer 10 to 30 thou. um
johngrimsmo: yeah
John Saunders: So it won't, um it will make the outside harder, like a higher Rockwell, but it won't necessarily make it tougher.
John Saunders: That makes sense.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: In other words,
johngrimsmo: It's like colasterizing, but deeper. Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah, I think so. It's not a bad thing, but it's not...
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: I'll talk about the Johnny Five issues here in a second, but ChatGPT blew me away with with even just the idea generation around a direction to go, because my whatever Bill Bryson type heat treat book didn't talk about Chinese mystery medals.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, exactly. And some metals cannot be heat treated. um
John Saunders: Yeah, many, many can't.
johngrimsmo: Right.
John Saunders: Like 1018, I don't believe, or 830, they just won't take a heat treat.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah. and if you don't know, that's, that's cool.
John Saunders: Well, so the other...
johngrimsmo: Yeah. It's jet jet GPT.
John Saunders: the
johngrimsmo: It's not that it's, I don't know. It can guide you in the wrong direction. So it's, it's not the end. I'll be all like expert on everything, but it, it just holds your hand extremely well while you figure something out, you know?
John Saunders: So then I, oh, actually I want to share. So the solid model of Johnny Five includes this product, including the internal gears done like correctly.
johngrimsmo: No way. Oh.
John Saunders: And so I was like, wait a minute here. If I have solid models of these gears, I spent some time on Boston gear, trying to find them. I couldn't, um but then I'm like, wait a minute here.
John Saunders: I wonder if I could metal, have these metal 3D printed out of something that is reasonably strong.
johngrimsmo: hello
John Saunders: Um, and I think that might be a viable path. I don't, I don't know. I'm not sure I want to do that. i also, you buy this whole gearbox for 40 bucks. So it's, I'm, I want to be careful to solve the problem and not the symptom.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: So i'll again, I'll come back to J5. The other thing I did to ChatGBT that kind of blew me away, I was like, I'm in the shower or going to sleep the night. I was like, how does ChatGBT react to gibberish?
John Saunders: So I typed in like, like, like Delta, uh, grocery, drywall, river a award running puzzle.
johngrimsmo: a sentence.
John Saunders: Gotcha. Yeah. Just like where, something like that.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Any guesses?
johngrimsmo: I know.
John Saunders: son of a gun, it wrote back, I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to do, but I'm guessing that you're either giving me a puzzle or a riddle, or you're trying to test how I respond to incoherent gibberish.
John Saunders: And I'm like, checkmate.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Wow. Just, i was impressed. um
johngrimsmo: That's awesome.
John Saunders: So I, um, I'm so happy and proud of like, it's been about a year since I really dusted off J five and have really gone through spent a ton of ton of time on it, frankly, bought a fair amount of fasteners and hardware and sir, uh, motors and batteries.
John Saunders: Um, and there's a kind of a chicken and the egg situation. Assembling him is quite daunting. Even like the shoulder, the shoulders where I broke this motor the other night, it's like, um You have to assemble multiple bearings, screws. Some are 256 and 440s. You have sheet metal parts that kind of have a almost interference-y fit that is tricky. There's a giant coil spring in there.
John Saunders: it's It's a fair amount of... It's certainly daunting when you've never done it. Now that I've done it a few times, it's certainly better, but like it takes some work and i I disassemble it. I usually, i absolutely ever put everything in ah in a single bag or a box or I screw the screws back in just because you you always think, oh I'll remember and and I don't.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: So where where that went. um and so i don't have any regrets about wanting to get a lot of the assembly stuff done first before you worry about kind of powering him up but now i'm realizing wait minute here i haven't tested any of these motors really and some of them are assembled like that shoulder the the shaft of that shoulder motor is buried inside of all those things i just mentioned and so i fired it up two nights ago and um I need to learn. I think there might be a better better way than I'm doing it, but I have tried to research it and I'm not finding a better way. And so basically I turned it on and the servo tried to like home itself, went nuts and ripped the thing itself apart.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: And so it's kind of like, I think what have to do is ah frankly disassemble it and it actually, or turn the circle on, you plug it into a USB, there's software on the computer and you find out it's home or you set its home position and then you can set the approximate range of where you want it to travel to.
John Saunders: Like, hey, I only want you to go between four o'clock and seven o'clock.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John Saunders: um Then you reassemble it. And that's not, like I get it. That makes sense. It's not like, uh, I wasn't robbed of anything, but it does feel like, man, there's some really complicated parts. I'm going to to disassemble now. And I don't know, I wouldn't have done it differently back. Like I wouldn't have known or three months ago, like, oh, I should really like go through this process now because you're so focused on the assembly. So suffice to say, I'm a little, I'm a little burned out.
John Saunders: I'm a little bummed. I'm a little bit frustrated. Um,
johngrimsmo: Yeah, you get so far, just have to backtrack a lot and redo a lot of stuff.
John Saunders: yeah i burned two motor controllers that are un separate from all this and i don't want to buy new ones and have them burn out i've got it i've got a yeah emf issue that ironically is still unsolved because the motor controllers that were affected by it are burned out and um so it'll be okay i'm just a little bit like i had put off some of the electrical stuff frankly because i was intimidated and so i was painting i was assembling more stuff the fingers which is all great like it's all has to happen anyways
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: i was procrastinating a little bit and and and sure enough that was for a good reason because now that i've started this i'm like man this is kicking my butt but oh well
johngrimsmo: Yeah. For the gear, um have you you've you've probably considered machining it yourself. What about wire EDM?
John Saunders: um why are you damn is a great thought i did not um have you have you have you bought one yet did
johngrimsmo: I know some of our friends I haven't bought one yet, but I know some of our friends, I can't remember the guy's name right now, but he's probably listening, um has at least two EDMs in his like garage shop and probably give me a good deal.
John Saunders: Oh, really?
johngrimsmo: um Yeah, he keeps texting me in pictures on Instagram. He's like, chug of this Mitsubishi or brother whatever EDM I just got for like almost free at an auction. I make parts on it now.
John Saunders: Oh, really?
johngrimsmo: It's awesome.
John Saunders: So the thing... If somebody were to do with me a solid and do it for a deal, great. But like, that's not, that's not like I have a, there's 12 of these in the robot.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John Saunders: And frankly, I want a solution.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: Maybe they could work for all the builders that are doing this. And really what I need to do is stop the, the servo from doing that. um Even if you could, let's say that this thing is MIM, metal injection molded piece of junk pot metal.
johngrimsmo: Sure.
John Saunders: It should still probably be fine if it's not over traveled.
johngrimsmo: Abused and yeah.
John Saunders: And um like one of them I was testing and it blew the fuse. Great. That's exactly what a fuse is for. This one was the way.
johngrimsmo: you You blew the metal fuse. The metal fuse, like the gear.
John Saunders: but for
johngrimsmo: The gear, it broke.
John Saunders: Oh, well, yeah. right The other one's also metal. 5 amp fuse is like ah actual piece of metal.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah,
John Saunders: Anyway, that's a good point. We could machine um EDM would be easier. ah
johngrimsmo: Probably a very small end mill to get in there and machine it.
John Saunders: Probably.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: You get a in the loot or something like side five access it or side.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John Saunders: Well,
John Saunders: there's like zero chance I'm machine these because no.
johngrimsmo: That's fine.
John Saunders: Yeah. That's all I got on that.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Good.
John Saunders: um
johngrimsmo: Progress.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um Last one I had was on Friday. We machined and heat treated these M2 steel buttons.
John Saunders: Yes.
johngrimsmo: And M2, you should be able to get up to 64 slash 65 Rockwell, um which is like really hard.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: um the blades being about 61. And I'm like, well, I just want to go nuclear, go the other side of the route, go with a non-stainless steel, but that can get way harder than the blade.
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: um So we did. And due to time constraints, we chose not to cryo them. And we I think that was the deal. so we got But we got 64 Rockwell out of it. And I think a cryo would get us 65.
John Saunders: OK.
johngrimsmo: um which is great. So I tested it out, put it in the blade, and like I could literally feel the difference.
John Saunders: Oh, really?
johngrimsmo: I'm like, this is exactly how I want it to feel. And any complaints that I still have, I know how to fix by machine this pocket a thou deeper or less or something like that.
johngrimsmo: um I think it's exactly what we need to be doing. the The button needs to be harder than the blade because otherwise the blade is digging into the button somehow, even ever so slightly.
John Saunders: Interesting.
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um The 440 buttons we've been making at, we have to do them at 58 Rockwell so that we can polish the head. If we get them up to 60 or 61 Rockwell, the head doesn't polish very well.
John Saunders: Good.
johngrimsmo: and so But at 58, they're definitely digging a little bit and denting and just grabbing in the detent position. And this one at 64, I haven't tested it a ton.
johngrimsmo: And I've only, well, my guy Gabe has been testing it in more blades, but we're like super happy with it.
John Saunders: good
johngrimsmo: i So the question is, can we actually move forward with M2 buttons, or is it a rustable steel, or is that going be an issue? um We could send them all out for DLC coding. we could do what?
johngrimsmo: So I don't know. Then I went to Atlanta and. Let the guys figure it out. But um Angelo has been doing a lot of research on other steels. um D2 is a tool steel that has like 13% chromium. So it's like almost stainless um and it could work well, but it should also, ah according to ChatGPT, polish really poorly because it's got high carbides and and big carbides.
johngrimsmo: um But going to get some anyway. And then you can get like spray form D2 or um powdered metallurgy D2, which is just a finer, more refined grain structure. um And Angela found a bunch of other steels that should be available in bar form that should be, you know, 64, 65, 67, sometimes Rockwell that are our stainless or more stainless and polish really well. Like,
johngrimsmo: Punch steals, die steals, some mold steals.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: um Because that's what he used to do back in the day was was make dies.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And he's like, that you know, the die or the punch is is the physical thing that's smacking into the metal.
John Saunders: Oh, sure, sure.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And he's like, used to make dies for Inconel punches to make like crazy stuff. um And they have to be like tough and hard and, you know.
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um So we're we're close. Maybe M2 is the interim solution for the next you know few weeks and we just can ship knives with that. So we're gonna figure that out.
johngrimsmo: Maybe the guys have already figured it out. i don't know, but it's great.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Huge result, like massive, massive result.
John Saunders: Good. Super helpful to know so far that even just the higher rock wall points does something.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: So it's like, okay, the rust issue care about, but it's more.
johngrimsmo: Yep. But the mechanical, technical, like does this function
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And and there's there's more to the steel than just the hardness. There's the toughness, there's the yield strength, there's the modulus of elasticity, all this stuff. But I think the hardness is doing most of the work here.
John Saunders: Yeah. DLC, I know that stands for diamond-like coating. It would... I mean, is there a Rockwell? I mean, it's so thin.
johngrimsmo: like but it's surface, like micron surface, yeah. But yeah.
John Saunders: Right. Okay. It would stop rust.
johngrimsmo: Yes, it should.
John Saunders: Interesting.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, except for the tiny bit where you have to hold it to DLC it.
John Saunders: Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
johngrimsmo: Just like anodizing. But um yeah, so that is totally an option.
John Saunders: Are there softer carbides?
johngrimsmo: and
johngrimsmo: I don't know.
John Saunders: I remember talking to, I don't think so.
johngrimsmo: It's still brittle, isn't it?
John Saunders: I mean, i remember Adam Demuth talking about how certain or many die sets could be have carbide inserts or made out of carbide because they do last so much longer than steel, tool steels.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John Saunders: And he was talking about different, I mean, I want to say micro grains and just different grain directions different, there's different manufacturers of carbide, different flavors.
johngrimsmo: yeah That's a good question.
John Saunders: Like it's way more than just carbide. um And I want to say just from hearing folks like Marv talk about milling carbide, I think it was in the nineties, but I'm like, is there 70 Rockwell carbide?
John Saunders: I don't have no idea. Um, cause I don't, I don't think it rusts.
johngrimsmo: I don't think it does either, but.
John Saunders: And you look at like how YG one does those, um, those Alupowers. I mean John, that is, that is legit polish.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, polished. Yeah, that's crazy.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: No, I think I need a solution that we can machine on the Tornos ourselves, get the geometry right ourselves. It's just, yeah, and we're close.
John Saunders: Fair enough.
johngrimsmo: We're like super close.
John Saunders: Yeah. I wonder how hard it would be to... How would you test the rust risk around...
johngrimsmo: Well, you can make your own salt spray test, which I need to research. But that's like a common salt spray test, you know, survived 100 hours at salt spray.
John Saunders: Interesting.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: And aerospace literally does that. Angelo says they used to do that for submarines um when he would make submarine parts.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: And they built their own or bought like a salt spray booth.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And i don't know any more than that, really. But um ah yeah, I need to do research to see what that's possible. like So we could do that.
johngrimsmo: Or maybe we could just mist it with um sodium hydroxide or some acid that's going to, I don't know.
John Saunders: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: I don't know. It's going to accelerate time.
John Saunders: Oh, i see what you're saying.
johngrimsmo: But
John Saunders: Yeah, right, right. You're not trying to code it to prevent Rust for the customer. You're trying to figure out how regular Rust.
johngrimsmo: make it rest.
John Saunders: Yeah, right.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. So keep doing research on that.
John Saunders: Got it.
johngrimsmo: But that's the next few days of figuring that out. um And maybe it's just good enough. You know, maybe it's fine.
John Saunders: Right? That's kind of what I'm...
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: ah Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Or fine for now. If we did ship a bunch of knives with these M2 buttons, we would put it on the card, we'd say M2 button. And I want enough consistency that like, oh, if there's a problem in six months and the customer you know has a knife with an M2 button that's starting to rust or fingerprint or something, like don't worry, we've figured this out since then. We'll send you a new button.
johngrimsmo: And I want it to be so ah interchangeable that geometry, everything, like, yeah, we got you.
John Saunders: Yes.
John Saunders: Mm-hmm.
johngrimsmo: It's fine.
John Saunders: Yeah. I got to ah tip of the hat. I'm mostly listening through the Dave Precise episode on with intolerance.
johngrimsmo: Oh, I didn't know there was one.
John Saunders: Yeah. And really enjoyed. um i met him back like probably eight years ago. We had dinner, like whatever. was a good time, but I don't remember. every I'm sure he shared some of that stuff that i he shared again on the podcast. It was really funny hear his story about, you know, atomic machine, Neuralink, getting started, San Francisco, like...
John Saunders: You know, all of us kind of had that, like found that love and passion approximately the same time of the, well, he was probably a little earlier, but nevertheless, really fun to see kind of coming up the ages over the last 15, 20 years in this manufacturing world.
John Saunders: But one of the things that he said that I really liked was, He really kind of had a, in my words, not his, a paradigm shift filter thing of when he would work with vendors and customers and so forth, when he would be like, hey, I want i want to buy this from you.
John Saunders: um When we hang up, I expect I'll have a quote in 30 seconds or like five minutes. And it's kind of like if you're going to be one of those companies that sends me a quote the end of the day or the next day or you talk to your sales rep to have him give a call to set up a meeting next week, we're not doing business.
johngrimsmo: yeah
John Saunders: And i I do love that. I understand it doesn't work everywhere, but kind of just we and we have this with one of our material vendors.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: One of our material vendors sends us quotes in like two minutes. And I asked him, like, how do you do that? Like, you have other stuff going on. I don't actually even remember his answer, but it works because it's just like, great, you you win.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: But similarly, he talked about one of the reasons he went with Mazak when he bought his first machine, big boy machine was like knowing the confidence of going direct, not having a distributor, blame an OEM, which not that that is always bad, but there is truth to like, Hey, I know I'm working with Paul.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: Paul works at Mazak corporate and making this up. And you know, that's like, if have problem, that's going to get handled for me. And, um, It just reminds me whether it's dealing, like we've had our own shipping hassles with FedEx lately.
John Saunders: You've had your UPS issue, you know, machine issues like with Kern, it's great to call Kern and have them to help you versus like, well, let me check with somebody else.
johngrimsmo: Mm-hmm.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. um dave Dave came here maybe a year ago and got to see the shop and he brought two friends from Toronto as well, young startup machinist. And he was telling us, Dave was telling us that he's like, a lot of times when I'm doing these, you know, deals with vendors or trying to find a new vendor or something like that, he's like, um he's like,
johngrimsmo: on the phone with them. i'm I'm booking a flight to come see you. i can be there at four o'clock.
John Saunders: Yes.
johngrimsmo: um You know, can you meet me for like half an hour?
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And then we'll make this happen.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: And he said, that dude flies like six times a month.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Easy.
John Saunders: Will?
johngrimsmo: I don't know. He goes to every trade show. He goes to every vendor. he just loves being in person, even though he never shows his face on internet.
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah, well, there's not, I think my point was like, he kind of breaks the mold of like, Hey, I want this quote in two minutes, or I'm going fly out to see you this afternoon.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Or kind of what I was trying to say in of like, no UPS, you've had my package for five weeks.
johngrimsmo: Basically. Yeah.
John Saunders: though The police are going to issue a warrant. I'm not sure you can actually get that, but you know what Like, um I don't mean that to be so confrontational adversarial, but like, no, you're in possession of stolen property at this point.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um And then the idea, what was going to say about that? um Just making, was going to say, we have mostly embraced this with a lot of our customers or people where it's like, we want to buy something from a vendor.
John Saunders: If they need seven forms filled out and onboarding, we'll just be like, oh, I don't think we're the right fit for you. Like, we'll give you our money today.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: We'll pay you the check, prepay it, credit card. I don't care. But like, I'm not doing all your paperwork.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. The credit check background, all that stuff like.
John Saunders: Some of it also so like we'll send them a pre-filled out Saunders Machine Works credit.
johngrimsmo: Oh yeah. Okay.
John Saunders: um Part of the reason I don't care about this is also like we have exceptional credit. Like I don't, this is not on an issue. Now I understand that won't appease everybody, but it reminds me a little.
johngrimsmo: Well, it's just annoying when like new vendors, you know, default to like, give me the, what's that called again? The credit form, the, whatever it's called.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And I'm like, no, I just, here's my credit card number. Like, this is a one-time sale. Like, I don't need to go through that hassle of, you know, give you three references. Like.
John Saunders: right But then that's the time to like nip it in the bud because your outside sales guy, if you're like, nope, sorry, we're not going to do this. That's the time where he tells his accounting team like, nope, drop it.
John Saunders: Crimson knives is just going Because otherwise you're stuck in in paperwork purgatory.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: And I get, like, we do do it for some people if I'm being honest.
johngrimsmo: Totally.
John Saunders: But I think send Jim from SenCutSend also said it really well. And he's like, no, we, they, like I'm making this up They won't do the whole like, oh yeah, we'll go into the Ariba payment system for S through SAP with a aerospace company where it's net 90. Like, no, if you want to send consent parts, put your credit card in and you'll have them in two days. Like that's, that's our system. That's our platform.
John Saunders: We're not interested in your submit invoices conforming to this thing through this system, wait for it approval and net 90. Nope.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: I'm out.
johngrimsmo: Unsubscribe.
John Saunders: Yes.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: so um I to look at my calendar, but I might be weird to get to the next week or two. So if we're not published, folks, sorry.
johngrimsmo: yep All right, man.
John Saunders: Great. I'll see you.
johngrimsmo: you. Bye.
John Saunders: Bye.
