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#420 Johnny Five electrical schematic
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TOPICS:
- Air compressor and coolant problems
- Johnny Five electrical schematic
- M2 steel testing
- Hard threading
- Prototyping 5 axis parts
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Transcript
Introduction to Business of Machining
00:00:01
John Saunders
Good afternoon. Welcome to the Business of Machining, episode 420. My name is John Saunders.
00:00:07
johngrimsmo
And my name is John Grimsmo.
00:00:09
John Saunders
John and I took talk each week about life as small small business owners machinists at the end of
Challenges with Kern Machine
00:00:16
John Saunders
the day. Yeah, how are you?
00:00:18
johngrimsmo
Doing good. Dealing with a lot of machine problems at the moment, but yeah, such is life.
00:00:25
John Saunders
Yeah, you wanna talk about it?
00:00:26
johngrimsmo
It's funny, every time I tell Leif about the current, it's only when it's broken. So his reference of it is the current's broken all the time.
00:00:30
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:00:34
johngrimsmo
um yeah real quick the ah last friday we come in in the morning and apparently at 6 a.m the air compressor over pressurized and the curtain and then the air compressor turned off and then the current had no air so the current stopped mid-cycle so we come into the current being off and we're like or paused he stopped or whatever and we're like what's up with that it turns out the air compressor is something's wrong with it where it's not shutting off at the upper pressure. So it kind of hits that upper pressure and then E stops itself pretty much.
00:01:10
John Saunders
Okay. Oh.
00:01:11
johngrimsmo
So we turn it on again and we're like, yeah, it's still doing it. It gets up to like 140, 150 or something like that. And it just stops. It's supposed to cycle at 125 or something.
00:01:18
John Saunders
Weird.
00:01:20
johngrimsmo
So whatever the over limit sensor is or the upper limit sensor is maybe not working right.
Compressor Issues and Solutions
00:01:27
johngrimsmo
um Luckily, due to a panic purchase a couple of years ago, we bought a second identical compressor so that we could slowly fix the first one.
00:01:37
johngrimsmo
And we've been running off of that new second one for about three years. And we have the old one fixed beside it. um So we were able to rewire and move things over, hoses and everything within a few hours and get the old fixed one working great.
00:01:51
John Saunders
So the old fixed one was was sitting there, but it was not like electrically or air air plumbed in.
00:01:56
johngrimsmo
Correct. Yeah, exactly.
00:01:58
John Saunders
Got it.
00:01:59
johngrimsmo
Yeah. And it's, um, it's not a big deal, but it's definitely involves the electrician to get a whole new run of line run to to wire both of them together.
00:02:05
John Saunders
Oh, yeah. Sure.
00:02:07
johngrimsmo
And we just haven't done that yet. And then there's a bunch of software stuff to get them to like, you know, the dream scenario where it's like, if one goes down, the other takes over. If one's not enough, the other one adds, um, we just haven't done it yet.
00:02:18
John Saunders
Well, you lead the lead lag, you're supposed to also like alternate it every week because whatever.
00:02:22
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:02:23
John Saunders
I am 100% with you. not going to throw the first stone about like, i know exactly how it could be done better, but and we have two compressors. We just run them all the time.
00:02:32
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:02:32
John Saunders
i mean, they they turn on off, but like, yeah.
00:02:34
johngrimsmo
Are yours both wired to the system like lead leg setup?
00:02:39
John Saunders
ah No, they're sort of do that in a dumb way where they have the collared ranges that it turns on turn off is such that one is the dominant.
00:02:49
johngrimsmo
but Interesting.
00:02:50
John Saunders
We don't even we should switch it. I don't periodically alternate them.
00:02:53
johngrimsmo
Yeah. But the second one does kick in when it needs more juice.
00:02:59
John Saunders
I'm going to say yes to that, both because mostly because we know if we turn one off, um it's pretty easy for us to get a low air alarm on the ha on any machine.
00:03:08
johngrimsmo
okay
00:03:10
John Saunders
Certainly the Haas, we have more Haases, and so we see it there more often.
00:03:12
johngrimsmo
so
00:03:15
John Saunders
We're also guilty. We do still use air in the machine for certain blow-offs, which is quite consumptive.
00:03:20
johngrimsmo
Yeah, but it's solving a problem.
00:03:20
John Saunders
um Yeah, exactly. Like every once a while, if we have a compressor down, um we we know, okay, let's not do certain things or certain programs and we're fine
Coolant System Troubles and Diagnostics
00:03:32
John Saunders
with one.
00:03:32
johngrimsmo
yeah Yeah, so we currently have We got back up and running within a couple hours. Now we have one broken compressor. We got to call the guys in, get that fixed. Not the big deal.
00:03:42
johngrimsmo
It needs a big service anyway, oil change and that stuff.
00:03:44
John Saunders
Got it. Yeah.
00:03:46
johngrimsmo
um And then, so I pick up the current mid cycle, getting running again. It runs for nine minutes until one of our guys runs around the side of the machine. He goes, there's coolant everywhere.
00:03:59
johngrimsmo
And I doubt they were related, but certainly the timing is weird. ah And I've spent the past few days trying to figure out, you know, what is what failed to get all this coolant onto the floor.
00:04:11
johngrimsmo
um And
00:04:13
John Saunders
so but yeah
00:04:14
johngrimsmo
the the way the current works is all the cooling goes into the chip conveyor and then it pumps into a external coolant tank. um Not like a simple VMC system.
00:04:23
John Saunders
Oh, that's kind of scary.
00:04:25
johngrimsmo
Yeah. So all every drop of coolant that gets used gets then pumped again to another holding tank um and then pumped from there to the M8 nozzle.
00:04:37
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:04:38
johngrimsmo
And for some reason, there's two float sensors in the chip conveyor. One is the regular duty and the other is the overflow.
00:04:46
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:04:46
johngrimsmo
The design of these sensors is really dumb.
00:04:49
John Saunders
I'll see.
00:04:50
johngrimsmo
It's basically a steel rod with a stainless steel float ball maybe an inch in diameter, inch and a half inch diameter.
00:04:55
John Saunders
OK.
00:04:58
johngrimsmo
And it does float. But if any chips get stuck in the interface between the floaty ball and the rod, they don't slide nicely. And this is a chip filled environment.
00:05:08
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:05:10
johngrimsmo
It's pumping chippy slurry. um Anyway, so the sensors do fail. But I think a weird scenario where i don't know I don't know if the pumps burned out, if the relays burned out, or if the floats are broken and the overflow float was ah clogged.
00:05:30
johngrimsmo
So it's like worst case, it just kept machining until literally there was no coolant left.
00:05:34
John Saunders
yeah
00:05:36
johngrimsmo
And then there's a low coolant alarm that stopped the machine.
00:05:39
John Saunders
Okay. That's my question. So low coolant will stop the current.
00:05:42
johngrimsmo
Correct.
00:05:43
John Saunders
Yeah. Which is not a bad thing, I guess. Um, huh.
00:05:45
johngrimsmo
Right.
00:05:47
John Saunders
So the, okay. So coolant flows into this undersized bucket tank.
00:05:52
johngrimsmo
The chip conveyor pretty much.
00:05:53
John Saunders
Yup. And it has to, um, get pumped. It has to get pumped up and over to a bigger tank. And then there, where are these, there's a contactor or a relay that then, um, okay.
00:06:07
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep. The float level, so the you know the ball floats to the top and then it trips the ah relay on. transfer pump turns on, pumps all the coolant until the flow gets to the bottom.
00:06:20
johngrimsmo
Then the float level hits the bottom sensor and then it shuts the pump off and it just cycles. And it literally cycles every 30 seconds, like like a lot, a lot, a lot.
00:06:20
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:06:25
John Saunders
God.
00:06:28
John Saunders
Yeah, a lot, right?
00:06:31
johngrimsmo
um And so I was on the phone with Current Tech yesterday And we're going through poking at all the wires and everything. And I'm like, it works now. I didn't change anything.
00:06:41
johngrimsmo
Why is it working?
00:06:41
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:06:42
johngrimsmo
It's functioning. I can lift the float and the pump turns on. And then he's, you know, we hang up and I go our separate ways and then it stops working again. And I'm like, oh, it's erratic. It's being weird. I can't trust this.
00:06:56
johngrimsmo
So the the I've narrowed it down to the floats function.
00:06:57
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:07:00
johngrimsmo
They're giving the right signal. They do the thing.
00:07:02
John Saunders
OK.
00:07:02
johngrimsmo
um the pump is not getting voltage. So maybe the relay is being flaky or getting old or weird or something like that. And I've got some more testing to do today to see that.
00:07:14
johngrimsmo
But basically the guys have the whole machine apart right now. They're doing a full suck out of all the chips and all the coolant and all that.
00:07:18
John Saunders
Oh. Yeah.
00:07:22
johngrimsmo
Draining what's left of all the old coolant. Time to put a new coolant. We don't have enough concentrate on hand.
00:07:25
John Saunders
o Ooh.
00:07:28
johngrimsmo
so we have to order more concentrate. um And I'm using this opportunity to upgrade from the stupid floaty sensors to the... these IFM sensors, which is about a thousand dollar unit that I've had for a while, um, that basically measures the cooling level with waves.
00:07:48
johngrimsmo
They call it a guided wave sensor.
00:07:48
John Saunders
Cool.
00:07:51
John Saunders
IFM? Excuse me, I'm yawning.
00:07:52
johngrimsmo
Yeah. I've sent the brand.
00:07:54
John Saunders
okay. Yeah, dude, screw that, like, mechanical sucky thingy that chip-cloggy blah.
00:08:00
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:01
John Saunders
Uh, huh. Weird, humble advice. i think two or three episodes ago we were talking about, like I kind of did the same thing with the Akuma when the sheet metal got bent. I'm like, okay, good time to clean it.
00:08:13
John Saunders
Clean it, but like, don't scrub it. Like you want to leave some oil on some sort like, just don't, you're just going to, yeah, not good.
00:08:15
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:08:20
johngrimsmo
It's going to get very dirty very quickly again. But like, yeah, get the bulk of it out.
00:08:22
John Saunders
it needs to be right.
00:08:26
John Saunders
Huh. Well, I guess, well, This sounds like it's more of a, okay, we got to do some work, but like no big deal production.
00:08:33
johngrimsmo
it's not a big deal though exactly but i thought it'd be a little bit easier than it is right now like i'm a little scratch in my head but i've got more testing to do to basically trace the lines and um yep one thing i did super benefit on the phone with kern was we walked through the electrical diagram together and i've looked at quite a few electrical schematics but i'm certainly no expert and it's very overwhelming to look at them and uh
00:08:33
John Saunders
Totally agree.
00:08:56
John Saunders
totally agree
00:08:59
johngrimsmo
He basically reminded me and advised me, he's like, start with what you know, like find a connector plug and look at the part number on it. Google that in your diagram, search it.
00:09:10
johngrimsmo
And then this one's set up so you can click on every arrow and it will like literally jump you to page 23.
00:09:15
John Saunders
No.
00:09:16
johngrimsmo
Yeah. yeah
00:09:17
John Saunders
ah pd It's a PDF like that?
00:09:18
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:09:18
John Saunders
oh that's so nice.
00:09:20
johngrimsmo
Super helpful. So it shows you like the, you know, the relay diagram and everything.
00:09:21
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:09:24
johngrimsmo
and And I can click on the connector plug and these wires go this way and it takes me right to the right page and it shows me what I need to know. So that helped.
00:09:33
John Saunders
I am making a note right now, can chat, GPT, read and explain electrical schematics.
00:09:42
johngrimsmo
That's a good question.
00:09:43
John Saunders
I feel the exact same way. It's like I know enough to be dangerous and the truth sit down and awkwardly disciplined.
00:09:48
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:09:52
John Saunders
I can try to figure stuff out. I also would happily pay or otherwise compel somebody to just spoon feed it to me. like But then you see
Electrical Shielding and Noise Challenges
00:10:00
John Saunders
it and like, so like the Johnny Five, electrical schematic is six or seven pages nothing crazy or complicated in fact it was done in kind of a layman's like microsoft video powerpoint-ish like a proper eagle redboard style schematic but um if like i showed it to you you i think would be like oh wow where do start and now like i know that thing like the back of my hand comfortable um do you so you're you're you were mentioning to rob i saw on the whatsapp it or
00:10:12
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:10:23
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:10:32
John Saunders
The contactor is basically just a relay. don't know what the relay is.
00:10:34
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:10:36
John Saunders
When that that thing is responsive, so yeah it uses low voltage, either low voltage or low current to trigger a higher current side switch to it.
00:10:45
johngrimsmo
Exactly. Yep.
00:10:46
John Saunders
That's working?
00:10:48
johngrimsmo
Ish. um That's the next thing I need to test. I'm going to put a multimeter to it. So measuring the the trigger voltage or whatever you call it, the signal, say it's 24 volts to turn it on.
00:11:01
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:11:02
johngrimsmo
And the basically the float sensor gets wired to some sort of PLC in the current.
00:11:08
johngrimsmo
um And then the current tells this relay to turn on. And I got to make sure that the signal is getting that far. So if I multimeter the relay while I lift up the float sensor, if I get 24 volts to the relay and the pump is not turning on, it looks like the relay.
00:11:08
John Saunders
yeah Yeah, sure.
00:11:18
John Saunders
Yep.
00:11:24
johngrimsmo
um And there's this little on off switch on the relay that I can move with my finger and the pump does turn on if I move that switch.
00:11:31
John Saunders
You could also just put your, yeah I'm assuming What the output side of that relay is single phase or three phase AC?
00:11:39
johngrimsmo
Three phase. Yeah. You see it's like three wires.
00:11:41
John Saunders
Oh, it's three phase pump.
00:11:42
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yep.
00:11:43
John Saunders
Yes. So regardless, you can use a multimeter and just check for voltage there on that side as well.
00:11:45
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:11:49
johngrimsmo
Yes, absolutely. Um, and I was checking for three phase volts near the pump. Cause I'm like, if the pumps burned out, it should have voltage to the pump when the trick thing triggers.
00:11:58
johngrimsmo
And it's not, it's not even getting that far. So I'm close.
00:11:58
John Saunders
Yes, right.
00:12:02
John Saunders
The pump turns on with the manual switch on the relay, then it most certainly isn't the pump or the relay.
00:12:07
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:12:11
johngrimsmo
Correct. It might be the relay being switched.
00:12:15
John Saunders
Yes. The low side of the relay may be, but ah my experience with those that's solid state or is it mechanical?
00:12:17
johngrimsmo
Yeah. know.
00:12:24
johngrimsmo
It's mechanical. You hear it go click.
00:12:25
John Saunders
You hear it. Okay.
00:12:26
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:12:26
John Saunders
Yeah. i don't know. If you've already tried, mean, you can just take 24 volt power supply.
00:12:33
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:12:33
John Saunders
It's funny. This is literally what I'm doing with Johnny five right now, trying to figure out why I'm burning up my relays. I, well, I don't think I know, but anyway, um, you should be able talk that relay on and off with just a 24 volt signal.
00:12:44
johngrimsmo
Sure. Although if I remember right from ages ago, you you don't want too many power supplies in a system.
00:12:54
johngrimsmo
Like the current has its own 24 volt system. I would daisy chain off of that.
00:12:57
John Saunders
Disconnect it.
00:12:58
johngrimsmo
That's true.
00:12:59
John Saunders
Disconnect. Sure. That's fine too.
00:13:01
johngrimsmo
If you disconnect it. Yeah, it's just a relay.
00:13:04
John Saunders
Yeah. Isolate. Take the current.
00:13:05
johngrimsmo
if i If I unplug the current, yeah, exactly.
00:13:06
John Saunders
Wow. That's what I would I totally agree. Cause it's like, not only are you mixing systems, but like, are do you need a common ground? Do you not want a common ground?
00:13:13
johngrimsmo
Got it.
00:13:13
John Saunders
Like I, I quickly get it over my head here and you don't want to short some.
00:13:13
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:16
johngrimsmo
Yeah, i know.
00:13:16
John Saunders
Yep.
00:13:16
johngrimsmo
exactly But you're right if you unplug the two leads from the current, the current is out of the picture. You just have a physical relay with three three phase wires going in three three phase wires going out.
00:13:21
John Saunders
Yep.
00:13:25
John Saunders
yep
00:13:26
johngrimsmo
And that's it.
00:13:27
John Saunders
Yeah, bingo.
00:13:27
johngrimsmo
Okay. Yeah, I'll play with that like immediately after the podcast.
00:13:31
John Saunders
That'll be fun. you
00:13:32
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:13:33
John Saunders
I've got to figure out... Oh, thank you. your Your Johnny Five linear actuator cleared customs, so I'm waiting.
00:13:40
johngrimsmo
Okay. I'm still waiting on it.
00:13:41
John Saunders
Hopefully comes... Yeah, no, it's just... Hey, I'm very grateful. That's my excuse, though, to then finally dive into solving those electronics. I might ask for some help. If anybody listening knows...
00:13:51
John Saunders
um I didn't appreciate the difference between shielded and unshielded wire. i think i I think I always knew what that was. I certainly didn't think about it when I was building this. And so I've got these two like 20 gauge signal wires that are run for about 20, 25 inches very noisy alongside some very noisy
00:14:10
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:14:11
John Saunders
10 gauge motor wires and it goes through a 3d printed plastic um cable chassis and then it goes across a internal component so it's not easy to just be like we'll just move them so i don't know if i and i could pull new wire and i just don't know can i pull new shielded 20 gauge wire do i need to redo the heavy gauge which is less fun for sure but whatever Um, do I need to shield both of them? Can I buy heat shrink style tubing shielding? Can I, Spencer's helped me out. I haven't asked him this either.
00:14:43
John Saunders
Spencer Webb. Um, he sent me, stuff he sent me some ferrites to put on the end.
00:14:43
johngrimsmo
He would know.
00:14:47
John Saunders
That does not seem to have helped.
00:14:48
johngrimsmo
OK.
00:14:48
John Saunders
I got exhausted that test, but, um, I also feel like ferrites are solving the symptom, not the problem. i guess shielding cable probably the same, but I just feel like it would probably be more robust.
00:14:58
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:15:03
John Saunders
Um, So need to figure out solutions there if anybody has any advice on that.
00:15:08
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I mean, this what little I know about electronics, although I used to do a lot more back with car stuff.
00:15:13
John Saunders
and
00:15:14
johngrimsmo
I used to shield all kinds of stuff. It's like shield everything if you're not sure. um
00:15:18
John Saunders
Exactly.
00:15:19
johngrimsmo
Shield the signal wires if you care about those because you don't really care about the noisy wires unless they interfere.
00:15:25
John Saunders
be noises. Oh yeah.
00:15:27
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:15:28
John Saunders
But like, and this is going to very amateur speak, shielding little 20 gauge wires is, if you think of that as armor, it's thin armor. Whereas you're still dealing with that thin armor up against a neighboring 10 gauge wire.
00:15:42
John Saunders
That's 20 times the the mass or the volume that's putting out noise.
00:15:44
johngrimsmo
see
00:15:46
John Saunders
So I probably need to have it shielded because it's the shielding on it would be so much bigger. again i don't know what I'm talking about here.
00:15:51
johngrimsmo
yeah I don't know either I don't know if shielding i mean there must be a limit or does any shielding is better than no shielding I don't know
00:15:52
John Saunders
Um,
00:16:00
John Saunders
Yeah, because your car example is a good one. like I don't want to have him built or even at like a show and then this acts up. I want this bulletproof so that I don't don't have to troubleshoot it.
00:16:10
johngrimsmo
know totally yeah
00:16:14
johngrimsmo
And that's the weird kind of thing where like, uh, weird variables would cause more or less interference, you know, like different battery voltages or I don't know, or even external interference.
00:16:26
John Saunders
Well, the good...
00:16:27
johngrimsmo
If you run it by power lines, you know, maybe right.
00:16:30
John Saunders
Oh, we need, we need some interference for him to come alive. Um, the good news here is that, um, yeah the system is completely functional and stable until I actuate the track drive motors, um, which are what, which are the both sick motor signal, not signal there's motor, uh,
00:16:54
John Saunders
There's power and there's motor controller power. And then there's also, saying that right? And then there's the little 10 gauge signal wires. um but Basically, as soon as I use the remote control to turn the track drive motors on to start steering them, that noise immediately disables the system.
00:17:13
John Saunders
So it's very consistent. in And when I take those 20 gauge wires and I unplug them and I ran a second redundant set that are,
00:17:15
johngrimsmo
good
00:17:22
John Saunders
just dangle it out in thin air. I can't do that with the build done because they can't do that. But for now, 100% of the work time works bulletproof. So I know, feel happy that I've isolated what the issue is.
00:17:32
johngrimsmo
At least this issue. But it it might lead to, you know ah now that you're aware of this shielding issue, you might look at different systems and be like, actually.
00:17:42
John Saunders
Yeah, thanks thanks for that, John.
00:17:43
johngrimsmo
Well, it's just, you know, build a Bulletproof.
00:17:46
John Saunders
No, I know you're right, you're right.
00:17:50
John Saunders
yeah um Everything else okay? Turns down, but, or maintenance-y.
00:17:56
johngrimsmo
Yeah, pretty good. I've been thinking more and more about
00:18:01
johngrimsmo
Remember, i keep talking about the speedio accuracy and the way we grind our blades. um we We did try with the fixture, you know, forward instead of side to side and seems to be getting good results.
00:18:06
John Saunders
Yep. X axis.
00:18:11
John Saunders
Mm-hmm.
00:18:13
johngrimsmo
But um and then I kind of looked at it again and remember to saying I told somebody recently of make no assumptions. so And I look at the blade and the way it's clamped and I'm limited by how I can clamp it because the way the grinding wheel has to like reach everything.
00:18:30
johngrimsmo
And so I push on the blade and I can see coolant come out, you know, like, like ah underneath the flat surface. I'm like, how much is that moving?
00:18:37
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:18:39
johngrimsmo
Put an indicator on it, push it. It's moving about two thou. I'm like, oh, we're trying to hold tense here and we're moving two thou.
00:18:45
John Saunders
yeah
00:18:46
johngrimsmo
How consistent is that? I bet you it's different blade to blade um just due to heat rate and stresses inside and all that stuff. So it kind of got me thinking, thinking, and thinking. And I'm like, well, I can't really clamp it more.
00:18:59
johngrimsmo
And then I'm like, how much force am I putting into it ah with my finger?
00:19:04
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:19:04
johngrimsmo
So I bought a force gauge, push-pull gauge off of Amazon, which I've seen but I've never bought before.
00:19:10
John Saunders
Oh.
00:19:10
johngrimsmo
It's like 80 bucks, Canadian. um Just came an hour ago. And so I can put an indicator on it to see how much I'm moving and when it moves that full tooth out. And I can push it with this push-pull gauge.
00:19:21
johngrimsmo
And I can see I'm pushing about 10 pounds into it, which is not a lot. You can do it with your with your finger um till it pretty much bottoms out at that tooth out.
00:19:25
John Saunders
Now it's hard here.
00:19:29
johngrimsmo
And I'm like, oh, so I just need like another 10 pounds of pull. And then like, can I put magnets behind this? Like an electromagnet or a switchable magnet to give that 10 pounds of pull.
00:19:35
John Saunders
Is it?
00:19:39
johngrimsmo
And I'm like, hmm, I'm onto something here, so.
00:19:43
John Saunders
The blade, this magnetic steel.
00:19:45
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:19:46
John Saunders
Okay.
00:19:46
johngrimsmo
yep
00:19:48
John Saunders
We're using that 160 millimeter magnet with great success on the horizontal for puck chuck work. It's awesome.
00:19:54
johngrimsmo
Yep. Your fixture magnet.
00:19:59
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:19:59
johngrimsmo
What's that? Four inches? Five, six inches?
00:20:02
John Saunders
Yeah, no, it's like six or seven inches, I think.
00:20:04
johngrimsmo
Okay. Yeah.
00:20:05
John Saunders
I'll look it up what we're talking.
00:20:06
johngrimsmo
Six is 150, isn't it? Yep.
00:20:07
John Saunders
um It is 6.3 inches.
00:20:10
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:20:11
John Saunders
I like it though, because it's also a flat surface that I can wipe off in stone. um
00:20:16
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:20:16
John Saunders
Little magnets with other
Advancements in Machining Techniques
00:20:19
John Saunders
non-flat areas I really hate in the shop because it just makes it so hard to clean. oh I would say, tip of the hat to Jay Pearson.
00:20:28
John Saunders
Dude, I know it's not a huge amount surface area, but vacuum chucked that thing.
00:20:31
johngrimsmo
i'll
00:20:31
John Saunders
Plus your flaps.
00:20:32
johngrimsmo
Now that I know the force required, i can calculate if Vacuum is going to do anything.
00:20:37
John Saunders
It's 14 pounds per square inch, you have a square inch.
00:20:39
johngrimsmo
That's true. and and Now I know it's about 10 pounds to pull it flat. So you're right. I hadn't thought that far yet. ah True. Interesting.
00:20:49
John Saunders
We redid this fixture. um
00:20:51
johngrimsmo
That's a good
00:20:53
John Saunders
where this is a piece of aluminum that's basically the size of a piece of printer paper, um not A4, like American print paper, freedom paper, that's either half or 5 8ths inch thick.
00:20:56
johngrimsmo
point.
00:21:05
John Saunders
And we were for years clamping across the whole section, um across the eight inch dimension, which would cause it to bow up.
00:21:12
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:21:12
John Saunders
And we we made it work, but I just never loved it. And so we finally bit the bullet and rebuilt this fixture using Pearson vacuum gasketing. And it's so much nicer. Now, there is a flaw, which is that even as much surface area as this has, if you have a if you're hogging with an end mill relatively far outside of the part, you can spin the part.
00:21:36
johngrimsmo
o
00:21:37
John Saunders
If I could add another clamp, it would be phenomenal. and I can't easily hear. So we just slowed it down.
00:21:42
johngrimsmo
even ah dowel pins to keep it from sliding
00:21:48
John Saunders
So we actually, it's pretty cool. I don't have one on my desk right now, office. We have these 3D printed spring over center clamps that Alex designed. um
00:21:56
johngrimsmo
okay
00:21:57
John Saunders
And those flip up and that lets us place the stock on there and then we flip them down. But they're printed so if we accidentally don't flip them down, we machine through them, replace them.
00:22:06
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:22:06
John Saunders
And those help us locate the stock but then they're out of the way because we do a full periphery but lean on this one.
00:22:11
johngrimsmo
Okay. Yeah.
00:22:16
johngrimsmo
Cool. Good to know it's working for you. And I do actually have vacuum on the speedio. Like I have a Pearson that vacuum chuck, whatever it's called. Not chuck, but the little device.
00:22:26
John Saunders
Smart back thing.
00:22:27
johngrimsmo
Yeah. um Although I want to palette change it.
00:22:32
johngrimsmo
Like i want the Aurora to load it.
00:22:35
John Saunders
I hear you. I'm not well but arguing.
00:22:36
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:22:37
John Saunders
And obviously it does take some time to build this system to test it. But um yeah, fair enough.
00:22:42
johngrimsmo
I'll consider it. Yeah.
00:22:43
John Saunders
Yeah, fair enough.
00:22:44
johngrimsmo
I'll consider it for sure.
00:22:46
John Saunders
What else can you do?
00:22:46
johngrimsmo
But yeah, i have, I have data now. I know I need 10 pounds, which is helpful. You know?
00:22:52
John Saunders
Sure, yeah. Huh, this is before lapping then and all that?
00:22:59
johngrimsmo
after lapping is pretty much the last step. It's hard milling and hard grinding these bevels, and then they go up to the front shop for polishing and sharpening and all that.
00:23:06
John Saunders
How the heck are they not like full Grimson of flat though?
00:23:09
johngrimsmo
They are until you start cutting into it, until you cut the first bevel, and then they bow.
00:23:13
John Saunders
Oh, and that changes the stress, isn't it?
00:23:15
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep.
00:23:15
John Saunders
Sure.
00:23:16
johngrimsmo
And the way it's clamped. um And then you move it to op 2, and the first bevel's already cut, and then op 2 bevel gets cut.
00:23:23
John Saunders
Yeah, I'm with you. Hmm.
00:23:24
johngrimsmo
Yeah. It's little tricksy, but...
00:23:26
John Saunders
Hmm.
00:23:28
johngrimsmo
Fun little challenge.
00:23:29
John Saunders
Yeah, you don know I'm sure you don't have of room either to work with.
00:23:32
johngrimsmo
No, especially on the Fjall, it's a very small bevel.
00:23:35
John Saunders
Right. Right. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. wrong.
00:23:43
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:23:43
John Saunders
Speaking of weird fixturing stuff, my win for the week, we we haven't done that. We do our lunch meetings. I like it. Kind of like what's a high and what's a low.
00:23:53
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:23:54
John Saunders
My win was and needed to do an OPT2 prototype and it was kind of one of just like, it didn't work in anything we had, which is ridiculous. Like was it was too big a part for a little the little electro advice. It was...
00:24:08
John Saunders
i didn't want to put a giant eight inch vice on and then i didn't want to make i don't want to flip around jaws and get frustrated like with making a weird insert blah blah and then i was just like you know what screw it i'm just 3d printing the jaws it was for a fifth axis vice that we was going to be the best format and uh had the model of that vice ah handy.
00:24:30
John Saunders
So did a really simple, like combined cut thing infusion, even included two datums or posts that help clock the part. So that way it's plenty close enough for the opportunity here, which is actually really nice.
00:24:44
John Saunders
And then, and I've done this before, 3D printing stuff, but I think it's a combination of just having printed by this point, thousands of parts, the bamboos, more confidence, more materials experience.
00:24:58
John Saunders
And we've been doing more 100% printing. which i feel like normally people kind of tell you, 100% is not always the way to go, but um it's the recommendation for the Johnny Five finger sections.
00:25:12
John Saunders
um And so it works pretty well. I have not had a failure with it, but it is something that I'm conscious of with any 100% type filament because I feel like, or infill, because I do feel like it can,
00:25:24
John Saunders
blob up on you. Um, and that's not fun.
00:25:25
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:25:28
John Saunders
And so I printed these jaws. They were, you know, both, they were like soft jaws and they put, you know, two and a three hours. It's funny picking up a hundred percent and feel part. Cause they're actually heavy.
00:25:37
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:39
John Saunders
Um, and, uh, use them all morning. They were great. Yeah. Like great.
00:25:43
johngrimsmo
I've done, I've done printed JAWS, but I did like, you know, 10% infill and they work for a very short period of time.
00:25:50
John Saunders
Yeah, I don't necessarily think these will be long term by any means, but I suspect honestly the coolant could be the culprit. Peji's a little bit more chemically tolerant, I believe, than PLA, but normally with the 3D print cell I've done in the past, when you start to clamp it, you feel the print compress.
00:26:02
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:26:09
John Saunders
These actually kind of lock up. Like it's pretty nice.
00:26:11
johngrimsmo
Really?
00:26:11
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:26:11
johngrimsmo
I mean, solid plastic, right? it's
00:26:13
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:26:14
johngrimsmo
It's almost like you made them out of Delrin or something.
00:26:17
John Saunders
No, exactly. And I kept the um ah kept the profile on the part sitting low so you're not cantilevering the part out of it. Like a typical soft jaw is at the top of and a half inch vise jaw, which that's no good.
00:26:24
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:26:28
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:26:29
John Saunders
these This part's sunk all the way down in, which helps.
00:26:31
johngrimsmo
These ones are called really soft jaws.
00:26:33
John Saunders
yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. But i was really happy. It got me going on the part. I'm now... walking out counter bore to get the right interpolated diameter for form tapping. And I was so close. I was like, no, stop.
00:26:49
John Saunders
Don't be late for the podcast, but you yeah.
00:26:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:53
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:26:53
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I mean, I've done that too, where I design something and you're like, okay, now I got to machine it like a set of soft jaws or something. And you're like, ah, however, if I just 3D printed, like I can, I can ignore this for the next three hours and then it'll be done.
00:27:01
John Saunders
yes
00:27:06
John Saunders
yeah
00:27:07
johngrimsmo
ye
00:27:08
John Saunders
I'm also printing ASA UR grippers for Grant. We've had PETGs for a while and they finally are breaking.
00:27:14
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:27:16
John Saunders
ASA should be, my understanding is ASA is basically ABS without the toxic smell um and printed the first ones, they went great. So the second set's running right now.
00:27:27
johngrimsmo
sweet
00:27:34
John Saunders
My two last things on my list were 5-axis part and 60 Rockwell tap question, but I want to ask you, if you want to talk about it, any update on UPS packages and any update on your 465? Done? Fine.
00:27:47
johngrimsmo
i have both of those on my list i don't want to talk about it
00:27:51
John Saunders
Fair
00:27:51
johngrimsmo
No, packages are still in Atlanta. ah I'm going to be calling UPS today and we'll go from there.
00:27:58
John Saunders
enough.
00:27:58
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:27:58
John Saunders
Sorry. Sorry.
00:28:00
johngrimsmo
It's what it is. um I mean, I told you I have AirTags in them. Like I know physically exactly where they are, ah which is kind of helpful, but
00:28:09
John Saunders
oh ah they Can i ask, are they at the UPS store are they at a UPS hub?
00:28:13
johngrimsmo
not the store. They're at the UPS hub.
00:28:15
John Saunders
Yeah, it's like at the airport hub or whatever.
00:28:17
johngrimsmo
Yeah. i yeah
00:28:18
John Saunders
No, man.
00:28:20
johngrimsmo
But
00:28:22
johngrimsmo
yeah and for 465 custom um the material i was all excited about it's a no-go yeah it's still too soft still dense still scrapes still and for the button on our fjell it's just no go um it only heat treats up to about 51 rockwell
00:28:30
John Saunders
No!
00:28:35
John Saunders
Oh, come on.
00:28:41
johngrimsmo
And I kind of knew that going in, but I was hoping the material properties would be so magical that it would, you know, overcome the softer hardness. no
00:28:51
John Saunders
No.
00:28:51
johngrimsmo
Not the case. So yeah, we bought about $2,000 of 4.65 experiments that move on.
00:28:58
John Saunders
ah
00:28:59
johngrimsmo
So I'm going to go nuclear on it and I'm going to make them out of M2 tool steel and heat treat them to 65 Rockwell.
00:29:04
John Saunders
Like, M2 is high-speed steel, right?
00:29:07
johngrimsmo
Yeah, basically. Yeah.
00:29:08
John Saunders
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:09
johngrimsmo
Yeah, so I'm going the other way. I'm going 65 bar while now from everything I've learned in um researching all this, I want high polish ability.
00:29:19
johngrimsmo
I want over 60 and I want stainless and in in but round bar form.
00:29:24
John Saunders
OK.
00:29:26
johngrimsmo
And I don't know if I can get all of those things in one package.
00:29:29
John Saunders
I didn't think M2 is not stainless, correct?
00:29:31
johngrimsmo
No, it's not. So I'm sacrificing and it also won't polish to a mirror.
00:29:32
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:29:35
John Saunders
It doesn't rust, though.
00:29:36
johngrimsmo
it It's not stainless, but I don't know.
00:29:40
John Saunders
Oh.
00:29:40
johngrimsmo
So worst case, we could DLC everyone. We already send batches all the time, get them DLC coded, and then they'll be black. um And that just might be the standard. But I need this not to be a problem anymore, and I'm willing to sacrifice my other you know requirements.
00:29:55
johngrimsmo
I want it shiny and I want it stainless. Well, maybe I have to compromise and try something else.
00:30:01
John Saunders
And why not like an S7D2, H13 that can go low 60s, polish?
00:30:06
johngrimsmo
Also options, also options.
00:30:07
John Saunders
Okay.
00:30:08
johngrimsmo
M2 just, I'm pretty attracted to the 65 Rockwell experiment and it's cheap.
00:30:12
John Saunders
Okay.
00:30:13
johngrimsmo
already bought some. I think it came today actually. um
00:30:16
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:30:16
johngrimsmo
So we'll be like machining them tomorrow. Fairly straightforward heat treat.
00:30:21
John Saunders
You're in a ma machine it soft.
00:30:22
johngrimsmo
Yep, machine it soft and then heat treat the parts.
00:30:23
John Saunders
so Yeah, i remember years ago doing some, it was either M2 or is there an M42?
00:30:25
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:30:28
John Saunders
Does that sound right?
00:30:29
johngrimsmo
There's an M4 and I think there is an M42. It's something different maybe, but.
00:30:33
John Saunders
Okay. I want to say it was just one of those like quarter inch or like, like hobby, hobby lathe blanks.
00:30:39
johngrimsmo
yeah yeah
00:30:39
John Saunders
Um, and we heart yet M 42 steel. We hard milled it on the Tormach. Um, premium Cobalt high steel, blah, blah, blah. High hardness, super high. Well, I so was going to say, i don't know why, but you could just hard do everything hard.
00:30:56
johngrimsmo
you could but it's got its own variables we're in the swiss it's an oil machine sparks
00:31:00
John Saunders
Okay.
00:31:02
John Saunders
Oh, got it. Yeah, don't.
00:31:04
johngrimsmo
yeah we could do it in a knack but i don't want to um machining it's soft shouldn't be a problem like that's what we're doing now and then we heat treat the parts we're used to that workflow i just need something harder like if i do this experiment and it comes out at 64 65 and the problem goes away then then i can i can further experiment with different materials but like
00:31:14
John Saunders
Got
00:31:17
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:31:23
John Saunders
Yeah,
00:31:26
John Saunders
yeah. 100%.
00:31:28
johngrimsmo
problem. I'm also looking for a problem if any customers with these early knives have issues um that I know to be a button issue, i want to be able to send them a button and be like, this is your solution and not remachine the blade, not different profiles, not things like that. So I'm sort of looking for this solution that does all of the things I need.
00:31:49
johngrimsmo
Um,
00:31:50
John Saunders
No, I'm glad you brought that up. I think it's something that's you and I both benefit from, which is remembering sometimes to solve the problem, you got to leapfrog these interim steps and bandages go to the far extreme that you believe will solve it.
00:31:59
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:32:01
John Saunders
And then you can find the right long term middle ground.
00:32:04
johngrimsmo
Exactly.
00:32:05
John Saunders
call Alfred over AB Tool and have them grind you a carbide one on their Anka just as a surrogate to test, not a customer-facing part.
00:32:13
johngrimsmo
Yeah. That's
00:32:16
John Saunders
bet you the is like $150, Sean.
00:32:17
johngrimsmo
a good point.
00:32:18
John Saunders
Yeah. enough.
00:32:20
johngrimsmo
That's true.
00:32:24
johngrimsmo
Well, I'll be doing the M2 test tomorrow, which should get me like super hard.
00:32:28
John Saunders
yeah
00:32:31
johngrimsmo
We'll see.
00:32:32
John Saunders
fair enough
00:32:32
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:32:35
John Saunders
um Okay, speaking of hard stuff, I have these two A2s that are still soft, and I realized when we mount, these are OPTU fixtures.
Enhancing Fixture Designs and Techniques
00:32:46
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:32:46
John Saunders
And when we mount the, but actually this is the exact same thing we were talking about. We were already doing this and now we're ready to start consolidating workflows because we've learned a lot of lessons. We've now have more conviction about the process of the puck chuck stepping through manufacturing.
00:32:59
John Saunders
So we want to hold a tighter tolerance on the op certain op two dimensions that previously we were more relaxed about because we knew we were going to grind them or kind of rework them and that's okay. so the key is in this optu fixture holding the part flatter um or more consistently and so what we're going to do is add a quarter 20 screw hole in the center and every time we mount one we are going to actually screw in a screw that pulls the part down then we use our id expanding clamps then we can take that screw back out um there may be even a better way long term but that's a very
00:33:16
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep.
00:33:30
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:33:33
johngrimsmo
The screw can't stay there, right?
00:33:36
John Saunders
correct Correct. It would not be catastrophic. It would get machined away.
00:33:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:33:39
John Saunders
um But no, the screw needs to be removed. Correct.
00:33:42
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep.
00:33:42
John Saunders
And...
00:33:44
johngrimsmo
I like that because then you're you're preloading it before your ID expansion camp clamps do their job. And then, yeah.
00:33:51
John Saunders
Bingo. We also looked at like a modular toggle clamp that like slides into a quick change fixture and toggles in the screws just going to be easier for now.
00:33:59
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:34:00
John Saunders
Um, so that's good. We're doing that. And I can, these have not been heat treated so I can rework them right now with a quarter 20 hole. No big deal. I have two though that are done ready to be installed that don't have the quarter 20 hole in the middle. And these are already high fifties um So I thought about looking up the, I believe they're called thread whirlers.
00:34:23
John Saunders
And in fact, I'm a hundred percent sure. i actually even did a video with Maldino Mitsubishi guys years ago where they brought one in and we hard thread milled
00:34:33
johngrimsmo
Right.
00:34:34
John Saunders
with a, into a hole that didn't exist. So this one tool is going in boring and as it's boring, it's forming the threads and even like chamfering and it retracts out and you're done.
00:34:41
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:34:44
John Saunders
I don't own that tool. and don't really wanna go find that tool and buy that tool for hundred bucks. um So what I'm going to do is kind of the same thing we talked about on the podcast a while back, which is I'm just gonna machine either hard mill a hex in the back and just silicone a nut in there.
00:35:03
John Saunders
the done for this purpose or coincidentally i just got these mcmaster inserts to start playing with these are like those press fit inserts for bingo um i could do the same thing where i can hard mill a bore that's a thou undersized press this in if i need to replace it after a year no he's no not hard to get it out but this probably is even more elegant than just you know putting nut in there
00:35:03
johngrimsmo
Yeah, good dude.
00:35:11
johngrimsmo
The heat set ones for plastic, yeah?
00:35:18
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:35:23
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:35:29
johngrimsmo
Although if you're i mean machining a hole into that steel, even on you know your Tormach on anything, it's not going hard. it's Just take ah take a used end mill and just let it die.
00:35:35
John Saunders
easy.
00:35:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah,
00:35:39
John Saunders
In fact, I did the hard milling on these on the Tormach. um
00:35:42
johngrimsmo
beautiful.
00:35:43
John Saunders
They work great. So yeah, machining a whole, no big deal. Hard milling threads, I can't do, I don't think.
00:35:49
johngrimsmo
Why not?
00:35:51
John Saunders
Well, that was kind of part of my question.
00:35:51
johngrimsmo
Do
00:35:52
John Saunders
Just do a thread rate a regular thread mill?
00:35:54
johngrimsmo
do you guys have single point thread mills?
00:35:56
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:35:56
johngrimsmo
Do you have any used ones that are dead, but you don't care, we'll do it anyway? That's what I do.
00:36:01
John Saunders
I mean,
00:36:02
johngrimsmo
I scrounge through our carbide bin. I'm like, yeah, let me use this one to kill.
00:36:05
John Saunders
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:36:06
johngrimsmo
And then just do it.
00:36:07
John Saunders
Yeah, you're right.
00:36:08
johngrimsmo
And then and if it's too tight, then go back to fusion, stock to leave, do it again.
00:36:08
John Saunders
probably could.
00:36:12
John Saunders
Yeah, sure. um Okay.
00:36:15
johngrimsmo
Just do it.
00:36:16
John Saunders
Because to your point, if I do that and the whole thing sucks, I'll just open up the hole more and press in my insert.
00:36:16
johngrimsmo
It'll be fine. 100%.
00:36:21
johngrimsmo
hundred percent
00:36:23
John Saunders
Touche.
00:36:23
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:23
John Saunders
Okay. Fair enough.
00:36:24
johngrimsmo
It's like hard hard milling is easy if you need to do one piece. it's It's hard if you need to do 1,000 pieces like accurately to a 10th.
00:36:29
John Saunders
Hmm.
00:36:32
John Saunders
Yeah, sure. I guess I just, we thread mill here on some, so I just thought what I don't want to do is spend a day chasing my tail about, oh the thread mill corner has already chipped like the, within the first three seconds of entry.
00:36:46
John Saunders
Um, yeah.
00:36:46
johngrimsmo
Shouldn't. What's the hardness?
00:36:49
John Saunders
High fifties.
00:36:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that'd be fine. You can find, send it.
00:36:53
John Saunders
Okay. and Thank you. Okay. Okay. Good to know.
00:36:58
johngrimsmo
When, and know you have your thread calculator, your thread mill calculator. Are you able to nail thread mills the first try?
Fusion 360 and 3D Printing Applications
00:37:05
John Saunders
Oh yeah.
00:37:05
johngrimsmo
i kind of,
00:37:07
John Saunders
Not only can we, but like maybe less so these days, but there was a while where I bet every week or two, I got an email or a DM from somebody that's like, Oh my God. I don't know. Two weeks ago, some guy texts a guy ah in the same County. Who's a machinist was like, dude, I found your treadmill calculator.
00:37:22
John Saunders
Saved my butt. Thank you for perfect on the first try. Like it was awesome.
00:37:25
johngrimsmo
Nice, nice.
00:37:26
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:37:26
johngrimsmo
Yeah, i have used it before, but I don't use it regularly. I had to do a thread, a weird thread, very small, tight pitch, not a standard thread. And I just had to guess a bunch and like keep making it bigger until it fit.
00:37:40
John Saunders
Right. Right.
00:37:42
johngrimsmo
but
00:37:44
John Saunders
um My other thing was we actually super fun. I got like invigorated and ah of this broke. um Motivated to do a video on um making this Johnny five part, which we need. Oh, I don't hear anymore. We had to make a couple of these fingers.
00:38:03
John Saunders
Perfect three plus two part. And the we did a video. I haven't launched it yet, but maybe by the time this podcast airs, it'll be out. um The classic dilemma, especially when you're prototyping a five-axis part, let's assume that the part looks kind of like a lollipop, like there's more meat at the top and there's inner stem.
00:38:20
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:38:22
John Saunders
Although, frankly, this applies to almost any five-axis methodology of you need to do work on the lower part of the part that's going to start to get closer to your jaws, but you obviously can't machine into your jaws, both because you don't want to, but also you need to have the part remain attached.
00:38:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah. And rigid enough, you can finish machine the top part of it.
00:38:42
John Saunders
Bingo. And I, the, the, like, it was funny. I started dusting old files. I had, remember I had some stuff that Rob Lockwood had shared and then remember thinking about his AU and then Phil took that, it kind of took that over in his presentations.
00:38:57
John Saunders
I was looking at sketches and stuff. Then I talked to Justin at tool path and he kind of reminded me, um, the, the way to do this these days, I think it worked actually pretty great. I think there's probably some things I can even improve on, but.
00:39:09
John Saunders
regardless, it worked great, is Fusion's automated modeling tool. And so watch watch the videos.
00:39:14
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:39:16
John Saunders
I intentionally kept it like six minutes. It's a really to the point video. But the Fusion automated modeling tool let me pick three faces on the bottom of my part and then one face that's effectively the top of my jaw. It's actually Lockwood's little riser base.
00:39:29
John Saunders
And then it created 10 different models but that join those two things. And you can even use a slider to control the size of them. And then once that's created, you have this kind of surrogate, like optional body.
00:39:42
John Saunders
And so for 3D adaptives, you want it to respect that. So it leaves all that there. And then you can start using 2D contours to pick away when you're ready to start finishing up the very bottom of the part. works freaking great.
00:39:53
johngrimsmo
Does it build it into sketches and bodies that you can then tweak and modify if you need?
00:39:57
John Saunders
Build it into a T-spline body.
00:39:59
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:40:00
John Saunders
um I do vaguely recall there being more like a B-rep style. I didn't play with it more because frankly, I was like, great, works.
00:40:07
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:40:07
John Saunders
um I'm rocking a roll here.
00:40:08
johngrimsmo
For 3D printing, that kind of stuff would be amazing.
00:40:11
John Saunders
Yeah. yeah um And I don't feel like it gets talked about. um So watch the video when I put it out.
00:40:15
johngrimsmo
No. Yeah, well, looking forward to it. Yeah.
00:40:20
John Saunders
Yeah, it's kind of fun.
00:40:23
johngrimsmo
Sweet.
00:40:23
John Saunders
that's all I got today.
00:40:26
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
Engraving Projects and Personal Touches
00:40:27
johngrimsmo
I did did film the video. It'll go up at some point. um I've got a friend who's graduating high school and I've known him since he was in grade one.
00:40:38
johngrimsmo
And, you know, like our are one set of close family friends in in town. um The kind of friends you see maybe sometimes once every six months, but you're like, get along every time. Perfect, right? Super nice kid.
00:40:38
John Saunders
Oh, wow.
00:40:51
johngrimsmo
And his parents are great. And so I wanted to give him a Norseman for his high school graduation, and he's going into engineering um in in university. So I So I wanted to put a little engraving quote on it and say, you know, what do you pick? What one phrase do you pick to give some words of wisdom to some kid, you know, going into engineering?
00:41:14
johngrimsmo
Asked his parents, is there anything that sticks with them? She she said, no, you pick. And so I couldn't pick. So I put 32 engravings on it and hope I put all of the quotes on it and it turned out so good.
00:41:23
John Saunders
but
00:41:29
John Saunders
Really? Oh, that's cool.
00:41:29
johngrimsmo
yeah Yeah, it turned out so good. So I was able to film some of the process and some of the the quotes under macro and it looking forward to getting this video sliced together.
00:41:40
John Saunders
What do you mean under macro?
00:41:41
johngrimsmo
Just close up video.
00:41:43
John Saunders
Oh, sorry. To me, when John Grubbs says word macro, I'm in the fan book mode.
00:41:48
johngrimsmo
Fair.
00:41:48
John Saunders
Okay. Oh, that's awesome.
00:41:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah, it turned out really good and i got his reaction on video and it's just yeah, yeah, gave it to him last weekend.
00:41:50
John Saunders
That's really cool.
00:41:55
John Saunders
Oh, you've already given it to him. Oh, awesome. That's cool.
00:41:58
johngrimsmo
It was super awesome. He was totally blown away and ah warm hearted with it. It was great.
00:42:03
John Saunders
Good.
00:42:04
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:42:04
John Saunders
That feels good.
00:42:04
johngrimsmo
It was nice to be able to do that.
00:42:06
John Saunders
Dude, your Canada, I mean, I'm American over here, but I gotta to say those Boxing Day knives look, or Canada Day knives look really nice.
00:42:15
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah. They did look good. And that was all the team. I had basically nothing to do with that whole project.
00:42:20
John Saunders
Oh, really?
00:42:20
johngrimsmo
Yeah. It was awesome.
00:42:21
John Saunders
Really? Even the the design work?
00:42:22
johngrimsmo
So design, the team came up with it and the team did the tool paths and the analyzing and the the re-engraving and everything.
00:42:29
John Saunders
Cool. Those look super nice.
00:42:30
johngrimsmo
Yep. yeah Actually, I did. i don't know if you saw the little story post of the inside. We've got a Viking ship um inside and we're calling it the Norseman flagship.
00:42:41
John Saunders
yeah
00:42:41
johngrimsmo
um So I did the inside engravings, which basically lets us, instead of having all the Norseman handles, um the machine engraves the date on the inside automatically, which makes it hard to plan ahead and be like, how do we make you know Halloween dives now?
00:42:51
John Saunders
Yep.
00:42:54
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:42:57
johngrimsmo
We can't.
00:42:58
John Saunders
Sure.
00:42:59
johngrimsmo
um So I created this kind of template where we can hand engrave the date and hand engrave, you know, one out of 10 kind of thing.
00:43:00
John Saunders
That's funny.
00:43:06
johngrimsmo
So I did that, but that's more of a general, like now we have that template kind of thing.
00:43:09
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:43:10
johngrimsmo
um Everybody else did everything else, which was pretty cool to be able to, it's like a weird flex to be like, I don't do anything.
00:43:18
John Saunders
No, I totally, John, totally agree. Good for you.
00:43:20
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:43:21
John Saunders
You should do, you should come to the dark side and do some like 4th of July America. Seriously.
00:43:27
johngrimsmo
I did ah Norseman 1776 back in the day, and I got to see it and actually like carry for a bit at Blade Show.
00:43:30
John Saunders
Yep. There you go.
00:43:34
johngrimsmo
um The guy who still owns it was like, oh, your knives didn't come? Here, keep this in your pocket. So that was really cool to be able to see.
00:43:43
johngrimsmo
But yeah, it's good.
00:43:44
John Saunders
Good.
00:43:47
John Saunders
What's on tap?
00:43:48
johngrimsmo
I'm gonna go do some electrical testing on the Kern.
00:43:50
John Saunders
Oh, yeah, right.
00:43:50
johngrimsmo
And then if I do need to buy a relay, maybe I have one or maybe I can find it locally or something. i don't know yet.
00:43:58
John Saunders
I don't feel used to relay.
00:44:01
johngrimsmo
I'm leaning towards it is. what do you think it could be otherwise?
00:44:05
John Saunders
Well, look, to not to steer the conversation back to me, but those Johnny-5 solid state relays that blow, it's those are solid state. It's so rare for a new relay that's especially solid state to fail.
00:44:19
John Saunders
Now, mechanical relay that, to your point, has been turned on and off every 30 seconds for five years absolutely could fail.
00:44:19
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:44:22
johngrimsmo
A million times. Yeah.
00:44:25
John Saunders
um But when a relay fails, it's usually pretty easy to diagnose. Like you won't hear it click on off. And so if you're turning and off of that test switch, relay's good.
00:44:33
johngrimsmo
Right.
00:44:36
johngrimsmo
Yeah, and it it does work sometimes, and then it doesn't work again, even with the float switches.
00:44:40
John Saunders
Yeah.
00:44:41
johngrimsmo
so
00:44:43
John Saunders
It could be a sticky, right. So, I mean, you could have arcing buildup, um, which could cause it to be sticking.
00:44:48
johngrimsmo
True, yeah.
00:44:49
John Saunders
Um, well,
00:44:49
johngrimsmo
Yeah, no, like old automotive relays are like that.
00:44:53
John Saunders
Right, so that's a simple, like, just find the part number and buy new one for 30 bucks now to have.
00:44:56
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:59
John Saunders
yeah Let me know what you find.
00:45:01
johngrimsmo
Yeah. um Even just replacing it out of peace of mind not the bad idea.
00:45:06
John Saunders
yeah Right, right.
00:45:07
johngrimsmo
but But if I can, with the multimeter, be able to tell, activate the float, the relay is getting power, pump's not turning on. Okay. You know, that'll tell me more.
00:45:17
John Saunders
Right. Yeah, you should know a lot in five minutes.
00:45:19
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly. So that's that's what I'm doing now.
00:45:20
John Saunders
Okay.
00:45:22
johngrimsmo
The guys had it all apart and they were in my way. So they're like, we'll be done soon and you can you can play.
00:45:27
John Saunders
Sweet.
00:45:27
johngrimsmo
Totally cool. All right, man.
00:45:29
John Saunders
Good luck.
00:45:30
johngrimsmo
Thank you very much. Have a good day.
00:45:32
John Saunders
yeah I'll see you.
00:45:33
johngrimsmo
Okay, see you. Bye.