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#431 Tariffs
3.2k Plays20 days ago
Topics:
- Tariffs
- Visit to Tuck's Garage
- Johnny Five is almost alive
- Speedio S700 purchased!
- Fieldly.ai (necklace pendant)
- DIY foam inserts
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:01
johngrimsmo
Good morning and welcome to the Business of Machining episode 431. My name is John Grimsmo.
00:00:06
John 2nd try
My name is John Sunners.
00:00:08
johngrimsmo
And this is your weekly manufacturing podcast where we talk about, well, some of the things coming up today. um Visiting friends, sharpening stones, tariffs, lasers versus water, and stress relieving titanium.
00:00:26
John 2nd try
I thought you meant work like work life stress. Okay. okay okay
00:00:30
johngrimsmo
Those are my notes anyway.
00:00:30
John 2nd try
awesome my list is um My list is checking in on if you've done anything on your interferometer, um some some lifestyle stuff about 3D printing that i wanted to just brainstorm with you on, an AI pendant, we bought a new machine, moving the shop to one piece flow, water systems, and Raspberry Pi slash home automation, both for home and the shop.
00:00:56
johngrimsmo
I like these bullet points up front.
00:00:58
John 2nd try
It's fun, right? so
00:00:59
johngrimsmo
I'm excited. like Yeah, exactly.
00:01:00
John 2nd try
It's like a teaser, but in a wholesome way.
00:01:05
johngrimsmo
It's good, man. So how are you? Let's start there.
00:01:07
John 2nd try
Good, actually, honestly.
Machine Acquisition and Design
00:01:09
John 2nd try
um Been focused a lot on buying machines. so as That includes specking stuff out, back and forth, doing all my research. And then now spent the morning designing up in 3D printing new fixtures and jaws and stuff.
00:01:23
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:01:25
John 2nd try
Yeah. How are you?
00:01:28
johngrimsmo
I am fan fantastic.
00:01:30
John 2nd try
Good.
00:01:31
johngrimsmo
I have had a roller coaster of a
Tariffs and Shipping Challenges
00:01:33
johngrimsmo
week. um Okay, let's just jump right into the biggest one, the tariffs. um This has been a really big thing for us. I haven't wanted to talk about it because it's I don't and don't know enough to like make a statement, you know um but I think I'm there.
00:01:50
johngrimsmo
Long story short, as of a month ago, The shipping category for our knives, it just it just, 8211.93 is folding pocket knife.
00:02:00
John 2nd try
okay
00:02:01
johngrimsmo
And that is, we can't really use a different one. It's not a steak knife. It's a folding pocket knife. It is what it is. um That category has been added to the section 232 steel and aluminum tariffs.
00:02:09
John 2nd try
Okay, I'm gonna show up and let you talk.
00:02:11
johngrimsmo
So the steel content of our knives now will be tariffed to American incoming customers. um
00:02:18
John 2nd try
okay um'm go show up and let you talk
00:02:19
johngrimsmo
This, this, the exactly the steel content. What is this? How do you calculate that? Exactly. What is it? Is it raw materials? It finished good. Is it work and labor and overhead and all that stuff? And at the end of the day my opinion doesn't matter.
00:02:32
johngrimsmo
It is what the customs agent, um, passing the paperwork through and charging you matters and, or your customs broker that, um,
00:02:39
John 2nd try
OK. OK.
00:02:43
johngrimsmo
puts their SAMF approval on whatever information they're giving to the thing.
00:02:44
John 2nd try
ah
00:02:46
johngrimsmo
So we've never used a customs broker for anything more than like importing a machine or like, you know, maybe 10 times ever. So we've never used one for every international package, which is 94% of all of our sales. It's international packages outside Canada.
00:03:01
johngrimsmo
um So we've been going through the process of setting up a full account with a customs broker in order to ship everything single package with them.
00:03:12
johngrimsmo
and see what that looks like.
00:03:12
John 2nd try
Okay.
00:03:14
johngrimsmo
um And the other thing is, there is a, I'm calling it the Canada tariff, I don't know what it is, but 35% on everything coming from Canada to the US, unless it is made in Canada, Mexico, USA kind of thing.
00:03:29
John 2nd try
That's the USMCA, which pre predated whatever you want to call the last three months of shenanigans.
00:03:30
johngrimsmo
USMCA, yeah.
00:03:33
johngrimsmo
NAFTA whatever.
00:03:35
John 2nd try
Yeah, right.
00:03:35
johngrimsmo
yeah exactly.
00:03:36
John 2nd try
so Say that again for me, sorry. There there is a 35% tariff unless it's an HHS code that's part of that.
00:03:40
johngrimsmo
Correct.
00:03:43
johngrimsmo
or No, it's not an HS base. It's um basically you can certify, you can prove if twisted to prove your stuff is actually made in Canada.
00:03:55
John 2nd try
Okay.
00:03:55
johngrimsmo
And there's a category where it says we use imported materials, but we do make everything here. And that is where we're at, totally legit, everything.
00:04:01
John 2nd try
Okay. Got it.
00:04:04
johngrimsmo
So we are USMCA compliant. So we should be able to avoid that 35% tariff. But when we ship some test packages with FedEx, with all the forms, nine pages of documents, all the things, two customers, we ship four packages, two of them came back to us for unknown reasons.
00:04:21
johngrimsmo
Two of them got delivered to the customers, no problem. Two weeks later, we got billed the 35% for both packages.
00:04:28
John 2nd try
Oh, yeah.
00:04:29
johngrimsmo
And one so that and a hundred other things adds to so much confusion.
00:04:31
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:04:35
johngrimsmo
Like what we as exporters, as manufacturing business,
00:04:39
John 2nd try
Mm-hmm.
00:04:40
johngrimsmo
What are we doing here? How do we make it right to our customer? How do we get properly approved and all this stuff, right? We've tried FedEx, we had problems with Canada Post, we've had problems with UPS. like So we set up this customs broker account with Livingston, which is one of the biggest customs brokers out there, I think.
00:05:00
johngrimsmo
And it took a couple of weeks to like properly set it up and everything. And through their whole setup process, we asked them all these questions like, how is the steel tariff calculated?
00:05:12
johngrimsmo
And their answers differed from our ideal answers. um But I'm like, can can I talk to your technical advisor?
00:05:17
John 2nd try
Ooh.
00:05:19
johngrimsmo
Like who is actually making the call? I don't want ah a salesman that says this machine holds two tenths all day long. Like I want...
00:05:26
John 2nd try
yeah
Resolution and Adaptation in Shipping
00:05:27
johngrimsmo
You know, i want the guy scraping the ways, you know, to tell me if this is real or not. um So a lot of confusion, a lot of worry, lot of stress.
00:05:37
johngrimsmo
um We're kind of we've been at a position where we haven't we've been holding off on shipping knives because we don't have a reliable way to do it and have them not be tariffed like stupid amounts.
00:05:46
John 2nd try
Sure.
00:05:47
johngrimsmo
um So yesterday we had an incredible Zoom call with two of my guys and eight Livingston Customs Broker representatives.
00:05:55
John 2nd try
but like Oh my God.
00:05:57
johngrimsmo
um And it was like the most helpful thing I've ever had, like just such a good experience. um And one of the people is like the person who makes the call on, on how these things are classified.
00:06:11
John 2nd try
Interesting.
00:06:13
johngrimsmo
And so she kind of, we were going through all the details, asking all the questions. And I said, I said, can you please explain the steel tariffs? Because RHS category is now in that thing and we have to comply. We have to do it.
00:06:25
johngrimsmo
And she said, it's, it's a 50% tariff by the way. um so Yeah. So she said, broad spectrum, it's a 50% tariff on the value of the steel content of your product.
00:06:41
johngrimsmo
And then she moved on. And i was like, hold on. No, no, no. Back up. Can you please define the word value in that statement? Like, what is value?
00:06:49
John 2nd try
Does steel include alloys?
00:06:49
johngrimsmo
Is this... Exactly. is it Is it retail value? Is it um is it raw material cost? Is it raw material plus our labor plus our overhead plus our efforts into that product, which involves a huge cost breakdown, which is what we've been stressing about. like How many minutes on this machine? Who does that? like It's a big job to do all that, which we need to do anyway. but um so Anyway, I got her to explain in great detail that it is the cost of raw materials to us, the manufacturer.
00:07:22
johngrimsmo
which is basically, let's call it dollars, maybe tens of dollars, not hundreds of dollars.
00:07:23
John 2nd try
now yeah Right, right.
00:07:28
johngrimsmo
So it's 50% of that is what we will have to pay the customs broker.
00:07:30
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:07:33
johngrimsmo
The customs broker pays the US government. And that was like the greatest news I've had all year.
00:07:38
John 2nd try
Yeah, that's awesome.
00:07:39
johngrimsmo
Cause like we were so stressed that it would be like a, you know, $200 tariff to the customer.
00:07:39
John 2nd try
That's great.
00:07:44
johngrimsmo
If it's right or wrong, I don't know, we got to deal with it. But when she confirmed that it's like, you know, basically, $10.
00:07:52
johngrimsmo
We're like, yes, amazing, fantastic.
00:07:52
John 2nd try
Yeah, I can work with that.
00:07:55
johngrimsmo
I can work with that. When can we ship packages? So they're like, let's ship two testers tomorrow, make sure we got lot paperwork, right? And everything, see them clear through the customs with within a day after that.
00:08:03
John 2nd try
of
00:08:05
johngrimsmo
And then we can open the floodgates and ship everything. um So this does come at a cost $20 premium per clearance.
00:08:14
John 2nd try
I was gonna ask, how what's the fee structure like with the customs broker?
00:08:16
johngrimsmo
It's exactly. Yeah.
00:08:18
John 2nd try
Brutal.
00:08:18
johngrimsmo
So is what it is But in order to properly clear all of our packages with all this tariff nonsense, um I think it's totally worth it because this is fantastic.
00:08:32
johngrimsmo
And we're going to go forward with this.
00:08:32
John 2nd try
Yeah, for now.
00:08:34
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:08:35
John 2nd try
So if somebody you know in Ohio orders a knife or saga,
00:08:38
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:08:39
John 2nd try
um you're you're still using either Shopify or cessation, creating a label, creating forms, or you like log into a Livingston portal and do all this?
00:08:44
johngrimsmo
ah Both.
00:08:46
johngrimsmo
I don't know yet. And honestly, that's above my pay grade because I don't need to know.
00:08:50
John 2nd try
Okay.
00:08:51
johngrimsmo
um Two of my other guys or three my other guys are handling all that and they got figure it out.
00:08:51
John 2nd try
Yeah, fair enough.
00:08:55
John 2nd try
Great.
00:08:55
johngrimsmo
But I think there is some integration that makes it easy. But you do have to provide a commercial invoice, which might be a manual process. I don't know yet. Yeah.
00:09:05
John 2nd try
We've gotten good, iffo met and if our guys can help, or if we can help you guys at a lot, which I'd be shocked if we could, because you guys do far more of this than we do, but we've gotten our international stuff down better to where it's no longer a, you get an order and you're like, oh, I love having an order, but not looking forward to this.
00:09:15
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:09:20
John 2nd try
Nope, now we just know exactly, you print three of these, you print two of these, and we've never had one rejected.
00:09:20
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:09:25
John 2nd try
Now, granted, um obviously times are changing, but um yeah.
00:09:26
johngrimsmo
Amazing.
00:09:30
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah. So I, have been extremely
Logistics and Broker Experiences
00:09:35
johngrimsmo
stressed about this, um, for a hundred reasons that I'm not going to get into, but it's, uh, it's like a breath of fresh air.
00:09:40
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:09:43
johngrimsmo
I told Eric, i was like, it's like, we've been driving around with the e-brake on and all of a sudden, you know,
00:09:48
John 2nd try
but Yeah, you're right.
00:09:49
johngrimsmo
Yeah, we let go.
00:09:51
John 2nd try
Good to go to, yeah open to do business now.
00:09:51
johngrimsmo
um Exactly. So that's great. I mean, i have no problem complying with the rules as long as they make sense and you know are accurately attributed kind of thing.
00:10:02
johngrimsmo
And this whole questioning is like, is the tariff going to be $10 or is it going to be $200? That's a huge difference. And I just want to make sure we're doing this right.
00:10:10
John 2nd try
oh Oh, yeah. 100%. Yes.
00:10:12
johngrimsmo
And so ah between you and me, because nobody's listening here in this private conversation, it's um we asked them, was like, so why did FedEx charge us 35%? And honestly, they said it's maybe because they're lazy.
00:10:24
John 2nd try
Yep. Yeah.
00:10:24
johngrimsmo
it's it's just it's easier and safer for them as an organization to just pass it through and do it then you know whereas a customs broker is customer first you are their client they will look out for you they'll you know they'll do it right and that's what the customs broker told me but yeah it kind of makes sense and
00:10:24
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:10:27
John 2nd try
yes
00:10:36
John 2nd try
yeah
00:10:39
John 2nd try
yeah
00:10:45
johngrimsmo
I just have such a good feeling from this that as of this moment, I'm like, heck yeah, I'm paying $20 per package to clear everything and make it easy and fast and all this stuff.
00:10:56
John 2nd try
Well, and I think it's it pulls into a theme that you and I have tried to remind each other of over the years, which is like, solve the problem in a way that works today, and then we can improve it later.
00:11:07
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:11:07
John 2nd try
you You solve the problem. there's a way to get rid of the $20 fee later, great. But like, like okay, ah you know.
00:11:10
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:11:13
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:11:13
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that that e-brake holding us back has been really holding us back.
00:11:15
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:11:17
johngrimsmo
So anyway, yeah, and that's one of those sticky situations. like I don't want to talk about it publicly too much stuff, but now that I have a resolution, I feel a lot more confident talking about it publicly, even though this a private conversation.
00:11:23
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:11:28
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:11:31
John 2nd try
The, uh, obviously knowing a little bit what you've gone through and then seeing stuff like with Amish posting, just frustrating snippets about, um, you know it's funny, you can throw the big carriers under the bus if you want to UPS FedEx, and sometimes they do things that deserve it.
00:11:45
John 2nd try
But the reality is it's just, you know, they ship millions, maybe tens of millions of packages a day.
00:11:49
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:11:50
John 2nd try
Like, take it or leave it.
00:11:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:11:51
John 2nd try
Like we actually, it's pretty great world that we live in for that for like 17 bucks or 37 bucks, you can do the service that they offer.
00:11:57
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:11:58
John 2nd try
um So I'm a little bit hesitant to to always just default to throwing shade at any of those guys. But the truth is that yes, like they will hold your package in Atlanta. They will just default to the, not only the customs charges, but then it's like, oh, the charge is $37 and we have a $95 process fee and we have a hundred dollar like inch.
00:12:14
johngrimsmo
Exactly.
00:12:17
John 2nd try
And it's just, there's no, I've tried to, I'm not saying other people have to accept this because there's part of me that drives me nuts. I've kind of come to realize there's things in life like that where you just pay it and move on.
00:12:30
John 2nd try
Like it's not part of my core business.
00:12:30
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:12:31
John 2nd try
if It was a one-off thing.
00:12:32
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:12:32
John 2nd try
I can fight it all day long. I'm not going to hire an attorney. Like just, just, it's, sorry, just let it let it go.
00:12:35
johngrimsmo
hundred percent. Yep.
00:12:38
John 2nd try
Like life's too short.
00:12:39
johngrimsmo
Well, and and since we're in a different country than you, we're importing a lot of US made goods and mills, things like that. Tools, metal, material, importing it to us. A lot of times we just have UPS clear it. So we're our default operating procedure is to pay those weird fees, the the processing fee for clearance customs.
00:12:58
johngrimsmo
So now that we have a customs broker on hand, we're like, okay, all imports from now on.
00:12:58
John 2nd try
Got it.
00:13:03
johngrimsmo
are brokered through our people.
00:13:04
John 2nd try
Interesting.
00:13:05
johngrimsmo
And we asked them that the conversation and they said, Oh, that's like actually a separate account, but it's super easy to set up. So like import versus export. They said, this is an export conversation, but whatever.
00:13:15
John 2nd try
Yeah. I'll be curious to see what you, I mean, i guess it's,
00:13:17
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Like that could save us some decent money on lakeshore carbide animals. Cause importing most of Canada is through UPS. It's like expensive.
00:13:24
John 2nd try
sure there were um ah like but when Yvonne worked in she ran the international division for a women's clearly company and so she would deal with merchandise that would move through what were called um oh my gosh what were they called uh free trade zones FTZs so these would be like actual physically segregated sections of warehouses and they'd have their own security areas or physical barricades
00:13:33
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:13:47
johngrimsmo
Huh.
00:13:48
John 2nd try
And I'm not going to get this perfectly correct, but let's say you're moving product from from Vietnam to to to Brazil. And it comes through a, for some reason, it comes through the United States distribution center.
00:14:03
John 2nd try
um And I don't know the difference. There is a difference to whether it's like a distribution center or whether it's like a logistics hub for UPS, in which case the the product never quote unquote entered the U.S. because it's just that the UPS has to land the plane, move it to different plane and fly i pulled it again.
00:14:16
John 2nd try
That's different than if it lands at like a, clothing company hub and then gets rerouted. i think at that point you've got this concern of whether it got subjected to the like U.S.
00:14:25
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:14:26
John 2nd try
or whatever country it is. But there were these free trade zone areas where you could do that sort of thing easier. um That's all I know
Free Trade and Personal Experiences
00:14:34
John 2nd try
about them. But it made me think about you.
00:14:34
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:14:35
John 2nd try
Like if you get if you order steel from Germany or Sweden, go, go.
00:14:38
johngrimsmo
What? That is exactly what's what's happening. We ordered, a call it $20,000 worth of steel from Damasteel, shipped it here. We thought it would come right to Canada and we got a $5,000 tariff on it, incoming Canadian tariff. And I'm like, there's no tariff between Canada and Sweden. What's going on here?
00:14:56
johngrimsmo
ah The theory is, and this is not proven yet, we don't know exactly, but ah it landed in Kentucky and then came here.
00:15:02
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:15:04
johngrimsmo
And I don't know what's rural that is that I know.
00:15:04
John 2nd try
That shouldn't...
00:15:06
johngrimsmo
So we're fighting that because that's worth fighting for, but I don't know.
00:15:07
John 2nd try
Yeah,
00:15:10
johngrimsmo
That's a big one.
00:15:11
John 2nd try
because it's like, you the carrier, I don't know either, like, above my pay grade, but like, Um, there's, it's the same, it's not apples apples here, but it's the same kind of thing with firearms.
00:15:21
John 2nd try
Like there's firearms that you can't have in New York state, but if UPS is legally allowed to ship them and UPS just has a semi truck with, with 10,000 packages on it, that truck is allowed to transit through there.
00:15:32
John 2nd try
It's like a different thing.
00:15:33
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:15:34
John 2nd try
I don't know the correct term.
00:15:36
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:15:36
John 2nd try
Uh, anyway, yeah, that's not cool. Uh, did you ask where they said about that?
00:15:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah. And that, that happened. That's a good question. We haven't yet. That's a really good question. This, this happened maybe two, three weeks ago, two weeks ago where we got that bill and we're like, what the heck um from UPS.
00:15:47
John 2nd try
yeah
00:15:50
John 2nd try
from UPS. What the heck?
00:15:53
johngrimsmo
So another plus one for using Limit Livingston as an import broker, because this is like, we've got to get this right.
00:16:00
John 2nd try
What? It's so weird. Like what right would like, it's almost like, well, UPS could have also transferred the material in the UK.
00:16:09
johngrimsmo
yeah yeah i don't know
00:16:09
John 2nd try
And I'm like, don't, don't, I don't want a great United Kingdom tariff, like bug off.
00:16:14
johngrimsmo
so
00:16:15
John 2nd try
I don't care what how you get it from Sweden to me, but nothing involved.
00:16:18
johngrimsmo
you
00:16:20
John 2nd try
Weird.
00:16:20
johngrimsmo
so it's like the two little fedex ones i told you about before which were like many many hundreds of dollars um we're probably just gonna let those slide but this five thousand dollar one we're like no no which technically got paid to the canadian government as an import tariff to canada
00:16:28
John 2nd try
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
00:16:40
johngrimsmo
You know i mean?
00:16:40
John 2nd try
Oh, interesting. Yeah, that's weird.
00:16:42
johngrimsmo
I don't know. I
00:16:43
John 2nd try
Sure.
00:16:44
johngrimsmo
So anyway, that's my tariff story. I'm feeling pretty good about it.
00:16:47
John 2nd try
That's awesome. I'm glad that you feel like you're in a better place and
00:16:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah, thank And then a shipping blade show next year will be a million times easier because now we can just broker them.
00:16:54
John 2nd try
place. Bingo.
00:16:56
johngrimsmo
I can literally drive them across the border, which I don't think I told you last...
00:16:56
John 2nd try
That's great.
00:17:00
johngrimsmo
Wednesday, must have been after our podcast, I drove two packages across the border to see if I could like literally drive through the truck lane, um which the boot, 100%, no, 100%.
00:17:10
John 2nd try
Declaring them. Not like... not yeah. yeah
00:17:13
johngrimsmo
I had my paperwork, I had everything lined out, no customs broker, but I had all the paperwork I thought I needed. Drive through the truck lane, feel like my little tiny car in the big, you know, semi truck lane. the the boot The booths are literally 10 feet tall.
00:17:25
johngrimsmo
And I had to like stretch out of my car and he had to stretch down to pick up the paperwork. It was funny.
00:17:30
John 2nd try
It's awesome.
00:17:30
johngrimsmo
And he goes, he looks at the stuff and he goes, where's your manifest? was like, my what? Well, you need a manifest to be able to do this.
00:17:35
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:17:37
johngrimsmo
Where's your customs broker? Well, I don't have one yet. I thought I could do this myself because it's under $2,500, blah, blah, blah. Go inside. Long story short, I went inside. They took my car key, looked in the car.
00:17:48
johngrimsmo
I filled out another piece of paperwork. I sat waiting in the trucker's lounge for an hour 45.
00:17:53
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:17:54
johngrimsmo
And then they called my name and this new guy ah says, I just got here, just started my shift. The other guy left for the day. So shift changed. They clearly forgot about you. I'm so sorry.
00:18:05
johngrimsmo
um
00:18:05
John 2nd try
Oh my God.
00:18:06
johngrimsmo
so I had two packages and all the paperwork.
00:18:07
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:18:09
johngrimsmo
I was just trying to see if this works. And he basically told me in no uncertain terms, you need a customs broker. We're we're not going to value and declare and and collect tariffs here at the port of entry.
00:18:20
johngrimsmo
um You just need a customs broker.
00:18:23
John 2nd try
Yeah, fair enough.
00:18:24
johngrimsmo
So I was like, okay, now I know.
00:18:25
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:18:26
johngrimsmo
But that was a stressful two hours of my life.
00:18:26
John 2nd try
Right.
00:18:29
John 2nd try
But if you have Livingston and give you paperwork, then you can do this, right? you just try to see.
00:18:31
johngrimsmo
I could literally drive a thousand packages across the border with all the right paperwork.
00:18:36
John 2nd try
still through the trucker lane and not through sibling yeah okay yeah that's awesome
00:18:38
johngrimsmo
yeahp Yeah, it's a it's a commercial import. So it's like, what are we avoiding here? We're avoiding the the fee of using a customs broker. But I mean, the peace of mind and the proper documentation, clarity, accuracy, it's like, it's worth it for us at this point in time.
00:18:55
John 2nd try
yeah sure sure good i'm glad i really yeah um good what else
00:18:56
johngrimsmo
So anyway, that's my tariff.
00:19:05
johngrimsmo
What other cool things?
00:19:07
John 2nd try
Yeah, what's on what's on your mind list? have you been doing?
00:19:08
johngrimsmo
Um, lots of things. I went to see, uh, Tuck's Garage yesterday.
00:19:11
John 2nd try
but yeah Yes, I saw the...
00:19:12
johngrimsmo
yes Yeah, yeah, it was so much fun.
00:19:13
John 2nd try
Dude. Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:16
johngrimsmo
And, um, yeah, i mean, I said it my Instagram stories, but we still had some leftover Blade Show knives that they made it to Tucker's house after Blade Show. At some point I came back and I checked them all and all the fjells were like, you know, I think I can...
00:19:31
johngrimsmo
I think I want to tweak these. I want to come back at some point. So past few months, we've been making different buttons, different hardnesses, going from 59 Rockwell 440C to 64 Rockwell M2.
00:19:42
John 2nd try
who
00:19:42
johngrimsmo
And so I brought a bunch of 64 hardness buttons down, and him and I played with them. And we just like literally hung out for four hours, and I fixed all these knives, and they feel amazing now.
00:19:54
johngrimsmo
So shortly after we hit end on this call, I'm going to list up bunch of yells.
00:20:00
John 2nd try
Nice.
00:20:01
johngrimsmo
And they're already imported to the US because the whole blade show thing. So like, this is great.
00:20:06
John 2nd try
The last of the the Atlanta series knives.
00:20:08
johngrimsmo
Exactly. It's over now. So Tucker says hi.
00:20:11
John 2nd try
Hello. Dude, seeing you put his... It's Iron Man, right? don't want to say it wrong.
00:20:15
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:16
John 2nd try
Yeah. Seeing you put the helmet on was kind of weird. Or like in a cool way.
00:20:18
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:19
John 2nd try
i was like, oh my God. Does it feel claustrophobic?
00:20:20
johngrimsmo
Exactly. I didn't know. thought it was great.
00:20:23
John 2nd try
Okay. Yeah.
00:20:24
johngrimsmo
I mean, you you can see, you can't see well, but you can see through it. You can walk through a building and yeah, it's cool.
00:20:29
John 2nd try
Yeah, yeah. Seeing him in the full kit is legit.
00:20:33
johngrimsmo
yep yeah Yeah, it is it is powerful. He's very happy with it. so
00:20:38
John 2nd try
And he's done that just all on bamboo and in painting or is he printing in the in the color?
00:20:42
johngrimsmo
All printed. No no paint. yep
00:20:44
John 2nd try
Yeah, that's the, oh my God, that's the way to do it.
00:20:45
johngrimsmo
he He had one, the helmet piece, which is like mouth guard all the way up to the helmet is all one solid piece in four colors. And he said it took two and a half days to print because of all the color layers.
00:20:54
John 2nd try
Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
00:20:58
johngrimsmo
But he's like, I just went on vacation and the bamboo kept going.
00:21:02
John 2nd try
That's brave.
00:21:02
johngrimsmo
checked in on it.
00:21:04
John 2nd try
Yeah. yeah Yeah. Well, okay. Good segue. So this is like kind of a silly question or topic, but um we have
3D Printing and Technological Advancements
00:21:12
John 2nd try
an H2D. I love it. It's in, it's happens to be in my office. and It doesn't need to be in my office, but it, the idea was that it is at work.
00:21:20
John 2nd try
um It's printing right now. I mean, it prints, I'm going to guess on average 30 plus hours per It prints almost every hour of the week, a workday.
00:21:29
johngrimsmo
Wow.
00:21:29
John 2nd try
And then it's usually printing after hours with other stuff or if it's clear, it was.
00:21:32
johngrimsmo
what do What are you printing so much like prototype stuff or bins?
00:21:36
John 2nd try
Yeah. So this this morning it was printing prototype stuff for this. Yesterday it was printing UR JAWS. Right now, this very second, it's printing Johnny 5, like literally finishing parts of J5.
00:21:48
John 2nd try
um But yeah, a lot of it is um work stuff. Yeah.
00:21:53
johngrimsmo
But it's not like, like continuous.
00:21:53
John 2nd try
And...
00:21:55
johngrimsmo
I need to make 500 gridfinity bins or something like that. It's like, it,
00:21:59
John 2nd try
No, nothing for, no it's always different stuff. Yeah.
00:22:01
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that's what mean, yeah.
00:22:03
John 2nd try
sir um
00:22:03
johngrimsmo
Cool, that's amazing.
00:22:05
John 2nd try
So, and I live close to the shop. So I think what I want to do is I do think I want to, want to think about taking the H2D home. because i am, if you just think about weekends and the fact that your average work day is eight hours while you're home 16 hours or not at work at least.
00:22:23
johngrimsmo
Yeah,
00:22:23
John 2nd try
um And I would rather be able to swap out stuff at night, weekends, all that. um I know this is kind of feeling like a silly question to ask it, but I just think it would be easier to have it at home than here.
00:22:39
John 2nd try
Although there are a lot of times I do one hour prints at the shop and I use the HD for everything.
00:22:43
johngrimsmo
And you need it. Yeah.
00:22:45
John 2nd try
be Well, no, I bring it out of the X1 Carbon back. I just swap them. But the, the almost everything I print now with supports is PETG with PLA interface because they look great and the supports just fall off.
00:22:48
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:56
John 2nd try
Like it's just the way, like I'll never go back to that. um That's my thought. Yeah.
00:23:02
johngrimsmo
Hmm. Any need for the big one at home versus at work? Like, cause I assume they have the same quality, same use quality of life usefulness between the two.
00:23:11
John 2nd try
Well, the difference is the difference is because the HD2D is dual nozzle, it can print PETG and PLA with zero filament changes.
00:23:20
johngrimsmo
I forgot about that.
00:23:22
John 2nd try
So that's the key.
00:23:23
johngrimsmo
That's pretty cool.
00:23:24
John 2nd try
that's really important. Like I don't use the X1 carbon anymore unless it's regular simple prints that don't have support.
00:23:31
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:23:31
John 2nd try
Um, which is in fairness, a decent number of things, but, um, I, on a personal note, I mean, Johnny five is, he's not done and like I've got work to do, but he is basically done.
00:23:43
John 2nd try
Um, there's very, there's nothing left to machine. There's nothing left major to buy or it's just like, yeah.
00:23:47
johngrimsmo
No way.
00:23:50
John 2nd try
Um,
00:23:50
johngrimsmo
By the way, Tucker was extremely happy about seeing J5 come together. He's like, it just seems like the progress has been exponential the past few weeks and months.
00:23:59
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:23:59
johngrimsmo
And he's beside himself watching you finish that. It's amazing.
00:24:03
John 2nd try
I appreciate that. And I, it was kind of funny, yeah two days ago. Okay. So there's a waist, it's called the mid torso section, but it would basically be his waist. So if you build up from Johnny five, there's the track drives in the bottom. Then there's a section that would be like his leg. um and And that's it's except it's just a center tube in the movie. That's where his computer was the red button that he drops the wrench on that turn himself back on, et cetera.
00:24:25
John 2nd try
um Then he has his waist that pivots. And then above that's the upper torso, which would be his chest and then shoulder arms. The mid-torso motor is what causes him to be able to pit it on a bearing, or it's actually a... Is it a bearing?
00:24:41
John 2nd try
Yeah, bearing. um And I was using a ah Strike Mark, an old Strike Mark DC gear motor because it was basically flying.
00:24:49
johngrimsmo
who
00:24:49
John 2nd try
It was the right RPM. I had it. I could machine the adapter for the the pulley. um But you were getting those motors are a planetary gearbox, but they have just a tiny amount of backlash in the in the output shaft.
00:25:05
John 2nd try
But a I can't quantify it, but it's... It's such a small amount, but when you move that up through shoulders that are 36 inches wide, it looks like he has like half an inch to an inch of slop.
00:25:12
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:25:17
John 2nd try
And it bothered me a lot. And the the thing with Johnny Five is it is, it is, like you just reach points on a build like that where you're like i can't justify or afford spending the money and the motor that the group specs is from a company called anaheim automation and it's like 300 i'm like i'm not spending 300 when i have a free strike mark motor laying around well i bit the bullet um because it just bothered me enough and i was like to fix it do it right so i to fix that i had to take
00:25:41
johngrimsmo
Yeah. yeah
00:25:48
John 2nd try
Taking his head off is big deal. Taking the arms off isn't difficult. Lifting the upper torso section off of that bearing is awkward and complicated. And it was kind of funny because he was like, he looked like he was done. And then like an hour later, he looks like he's back to the state he was in for like a full year.
00:26:04
John 2nd try
And it's actually a pretty cool design that they came up with called a, they call it Jesus switch or a, a like a total kill switch. So the, cause a couple people have had whatever sort of malfunction, you know, could be mechanical, electronic, whatever, where he will over rotate.
00:26:24
John 2nd try
And he, cause that chain, it's a chain drive on a sprocket in that variant. So he could rotate continuously, but it will tear your wiring apart and yeah ironically cause short circuits.
00:26:32
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:35
John 2nd try
It could just like, not good. So what they did It'll be, it won't be that hard to explain this. You have two 3D printed parts that are around the the pivot shaft and the one part has a pin in it.
00:26:48
John 2nd try
And it' if that pin goes more than 270 degrees either way, that pin then starts to to hit a feature in the top 3D printed part that causes the top part to rotate. Does that make sense?
00:27:04
johngrimsmo
Maybe. Okay.
00:27:05
John 2nd try
So the top part has a trough, a moat in it.
00:27:07
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:07
John 2nd try
And that in the the pin can ride in that moat left and right, almost full circle.
00:27:12
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:27:13
John 2nd try
But if you go past, call it 300 degrees, the pin interferes with that top part.
00:27:17
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:27:18
John 2nd try
And that top part is just a press, like a slip fit on the shaft. So it can then start to rotate. Although it's hard to rotate, but this will clearly rotate it. If that part rotates, it has a cam on it, which triggers two...
00:27:30
johngrimsmo
Interesting.
00:27:31
John 2nd try
Um, it's actually really cool. It triggers two single pull, single throw, uh, McMaster like roller switches. And those switches are what, what wire in the power of the motor that are normally, they're normally open.
00:27:45
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it's like your e-stop.
00:27:47
John 2nd try
And if it closes them, when it closes them, it shorts the two motor leads together, which immediately stops the motor.
00:27:54
johngrimsmo
Nice. Immediately.
00:27:54
John 2nd try
Um,
00:27:55
johngrimsmo
Okay, interesting.
00:27:56
John 2nd try
because when you short a DC gear motor together, it's a break. It's actually really cool. It's actually also ironically how we stopped the Strike Mark motor because coasting it caused problems.
00:28:04
johngrimsmo
Huh.
00:28:05
John 2nd try
If you just disconnect the power to a DC motor, it coasts little more.
00:28:08
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:28:09
John 2nd try
um But if you short it together, and there's ways you need to short it with a capacitor to ease up the, you the long term, I believe, um or a rectifier, not rectifier, there's some other component we use in Strike Mark.
00:28:13
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:28:19
John 2nd try
Anyway, um funny funny enough, when I wired in the new... um motor from anaheim it's it's wired the polarity is backward from what i thought for a dc motor so when i tried to hook it into the servo board it couldn't home itself because it was homing the wrong way and so it tripped the jesus switch um which is actually was pain the ass but it was uh nice to know that it works um so
00:28:38
johngrimsmo
Yeah. yeah
00:28:41
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:28:44
johngrimsmo
Yeah. keep Good.
00:28:48
John 2nd try
Sorry, that was a long ramble on that.
Johnny Five and CNC Innovations
00:28:50
John 2nd try
But he's...
00:28:50
johngrimsmo
No, it's great.
00:28:51
John 2nd try
I've got some arm work to do. The head... Did I post? I don't think I wasn't posting much lately because I kind of want to, at this point, wait for him to be um really, like, good.
00:29:04
John 2nd try
But here is... Yeah, here we go. Here is him.
00:29:10
johngrimsmo
Oh man.
00:29:10
John 2nd try
The eyes moving that...
00:29:11
johngrimsmo
Yes.
00:29:15
John 2nd try
Yeah, full head articulation, eye articulation, eyelids are flapping. The hydraulic system has been rebuilt, recharged on the neck. like Arms are moving. It's good.
00:29:25
johngrimsmo
It's fantastic.
00:29:28
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:29:29
johngrimsmo
it must feel really good too. um It's been what? Six, seven years that you've been like,
00:29:35
John 2nd try
2018 was definitely when we started him. Again, we took three years on, probably four years off, and then now it feels good to bring you home.
00:29:37
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:29:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:29:42
johngrimsmo
dude
00:29:43
John 2nd try
Oh, so sorry, the reason I brought all that up is um i am legitimately excited to start building an R2. um Now that's this is personal if stuff, but I will end up doing mostly an R2 3D print build.
00:29:49
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:29:55
John 2nd try
There's a guy, an astromech guy kind of spin-off called Mr. Not Dudley, something who um has a phenomenal set of models around the 3D printed R2.
00:30:06
John 2nd try
Mr. Badderley. So like I said, it's not actually that hard of a build compared to compared to a multi-year J5 build. so
00:30:17
johngrimsmo
That's amazing.
00:30:20
John 2nd try
yeah Allegedly, this is a machine podcast. So ah to bring it back full circle, um um I'm joining the brother club.
00:30:27
johngrimsmo
Oh, yeah. Did finally pull the trigger, made the call?
00:30:28
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:30:30
John 2nd try
Yep, signed signed the paperwork and sent in the deposit this morning on a 28-tool S700 with the 10K high-torque spindle.
00:30:42
johngrimsmo
OK.
00:30:42
John 2nd try
And I mean, some other, well, yeah, there's some other options. mean, I can go on. You know about the brothers.
00:30:50
johngrimsmo
what What made you choose the 10K over the sixteen k spindle?
00:30:50
John 2nd try
There's...
00:30:54
John 2nd try
um because the first machine that we need to implement with the one piece of automation needs to be for steel mod vices and we form tap um half 13.
00:31:05
johngrimsmo
Oh. Yeah.
00:31:07
John 2nd try
that's the only real reason the 10 16k would have been fine for all the other operations and there's something to be said for consistency having them all the same but
00:31:11
johngrimsmo
um Interesting. Interesting.
00:31:17
John 2nd try
um 10K was the right choice here. It's actually cost more um than the 16K. So, but i I'm not gonna regret it.
00:31:24
johngrimsmo
Yeah, amazing. And the goal is like Trinity automation, you are in front of it kind of thing.
00:31:32
John 2nd try
Lights out automation.
00:31:33
johngrimsmo
Lights out, sorry.
00:31:34
John 2nd try
Sorry, lights out manufacturing. Yeah.
00:31:36
johngrimsmo
like so Yeah, exactly.
00:31:37
John 2nd try
they are They have our and they need like two weeks to get it all finished up and then ship it to us. The you ah brothers apparently um are just like in Chicago on racking.
00:31:50
John 2nd try
Like they have just, they've an automated forklift and it's just like, yeah, guy should, I mean, unclear if this is really how they do it every day.
00:31:53
johngrimsmo
No.
00:31:59
John 2nd try
um But yeah, it's like, oh yeah, Saunders bought the, you know, Bay 7 Row machine.
00:32:04
johngrimsmo
It's like the Costco of.
00:32:06
John 2nd try
and it just goes retrieves the machine ah like already racked up. Um, they'll have to obviously add some of the options onto it and so forth.
00:32:14
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:32:14
John 2nd try
But, um, mean, yes, I did.
00:32:16
johngrimsmo
Did you get through Smiddle Coolit? ye
00:32:20
John 2nd try
I did.
00:32:20
johngrimsmo
Which is a different tank and a different, I think.
00:32:21
John 2nd try
Um,
00:32:25
John 2nd try
Well, so um big shout out to the people that helped me on this. Some good feedback from you and others. um There is a relatively new conveyor option.
00:32:36
John 2nd try
um
00:32:37
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:32:37
John 2nd try
I'll go into more detail on it later.
00:32:39
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:32:40
John 2nd try
But the thing I like about the brothers is it's kind of more like the Haas in that it's the coolant, through spinal coolant is, um doesn't add more real estate, unlike say like our Okuma's where there's a separate, it's like the size of an S300, like the coolant system.
00:32:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah,
00:32:54
johngrimsmo
yeah mine too.
00:32:56
John 2nd try
on Oh, on the Kern?
00:32:57
johngrimsmo
On the current, yep. yep
00:32:58
John 2nd try
Yeah. You don't have it on the Mori?
00:33:00
johngrimsmo
Nope.
00:33:01
John 2nd try
Yeah. We really thought long and hard about not getting through spindle coolant. We don't need it, but um I did. So I did.
00:33:09
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I don't regret that kind of decision either. It's like we don't use it for a lot of tools but we...
00:33:13
John 2nd try
Really?
00:33:15
johngrimsmo
on the Speedio, do we even use it right now? I don't think we are using it right now for production for day to day.
00:33:20
John 2nd try
Really?
00:33:22
johngrimsmo
I'm still glad I have it.
00:33:24
John 2nd try
Yeah, you say that, but I mean, but's say we're gonna buy let's say I buy three or four of these over time.
00:33:26
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:33:29
John 2nd try
It's like, hey, that's that's well into the five figures of investment.
00:33:29
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:32
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:33:33
John 2nd try
And i ah sadly, it's more going to be useful for cleaning than it is for actual production.
00:33:38
johngrimsmo
Which does have value.
00:33:39
John 2nd try
Oh, okay. Got it.
00:33:40
johngrimsmo
I mean, I have definitely made parts on the Speedio that needed through spindle coolant. I just happen to not be running those parts now. Like, they're on the current instead.
00:33:48
John 2nd try
okay
00:33:49
johngrimsmo
um So it it does depend on just what you're going to use it for.
00:33:49
John 2nd try
got
00:33:52
johngrimsmo
And sometimes it's one of those things where if you have it, you use it all the time. And if you don't have it, you don't need it kind of thing.
00:33:58
John 2nd try
Yeah, yeah. um So excited. i mean, obviously it's a new control. we ended up getting the Bloom Touch Z Nano and the Spindle Pro from them.
00:34:08
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:34:09
John 2nd try
So it's all Bloom, which will be new to us.
00:34:11
johngrimsmo
that your first bloom product? Yeah.
00:34:12
John 2nd try
It's my first Bloom product. And, you know, we don't have to run it with the robot. Like you the way the way we're going to build these new fixtures could be hand loaded.
00:34:23
John 2nd try
There's actually no reason we shouldn't start it that way.
00:34:24
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:34:26
John 2nd try
Um, you know, it's kind of the walk, don't run. Like, um, actually my Yvonne sent me a really good thing.
00:34:28
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:34:32
John 2nd try
I remember the context of the, it was one of those kind of like, Hey, where are you in life? Like, you know, I know you and I've talked about this a lot, both on the podcast and the little offline, like we are middle-aged now, like, like it or not, like, you know, Oh, nobody says that to me.
00:34:45
johngrimsmo
Yeah, know my son reminds me far too often.
00:34:49
John 2nd try
It's kind of funny.
00:34:49
johngrimsmo
but okay
00:34:50
John 2nd try
It's like, if somebody were to say, are you having a midlife crisis? I'd be like, I'll let you know when I get there. And you're like, wait minute.
00:34:54
johngrimsmo
Exactly. But yeah, like what's what's double 40?
00:34:56
John 2nd try
um
00:34:57
johngrimsmo
That's like 80 years old.
00:34:59
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:34:59
johngrimsmo
I don't know.
00:35:01
John 2nd try
And it was, it was, i don't know, it hit better at the moment than I feel like it's going to hit now when I say it out loud, but it's like, look, if you're having a hard time doing something, it just means the first step isn't small enough.
00:35:14
John 2nd try
And it is true. Like I've said this to you before. It's like, sometimes like on Johnny five, I get a rum. No dude, just hook up the next wire or like find the next screw and thread it in.
00:35:17
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:22
John 2nd try
Like just, just, you just got to start one step at a time. Yeah.
00:35:25
johngrimsmo
That's a really good point.
00:35:26
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:35:28
johngrimsmo
Mm-hmm.
00:35:32
John 2nd try
yeah The other thing i had on my list was shout out to Brad over at Maple maple Lane, I believe. He sent in something. I don't and don't want this and I'm not even sure like it, but it's worth noting as an interesting thing. It's called fieldly.ai.
00:35:48
John 2nd try
F-I-E-L-D-Y. It is a necklace that has a little ah pendant that kind of looks like a guitar pick, but thicker. And buckle up. It's little creepy.
00:35:59
John 2nd try
It records everything you do and say throughout your day, however, whenever you want to wear it. And then you can just be like, remind me what I needed to do after that meeting or remind me what my wife said to get at the grocery store.
00:36:14
johngrimsmo
oh it's kind weird yeah
00:36:14
John 2nd try
and I know, right? and It is kind of weird. um I'm not endorsing it. I don't want one, but I'm also like, there's interesting reasons why it could be helpful, especially not just transcribing, but it actually has enough intelligence to be like, Hey, you said you were going to stop by Home Depot at lunch.
00:36:35
John 2nd try
Like, and I just, I'll forget if I don't write stuff down. Actually, I need to, I need to figure out how to order.
00:36:38
johngrimsmo
yeah yeah
00:36:42
John 2nd try
I didn't want to bring up with you when you were going through the custom stuff i need to order some of your saga ah booklets.
00:36:47
johngrimsmo
The notepads? Yeah.
00:36:48
John 2nd try
Yeah, yeah. Or maybe you'll come up and don't know what figured out.
00:36:49
johngrimsmo
Pocketbooks.
00:36:52
John 2nd try
But yeah, okay.
00:36:52
johngrimsmo
You're always welcome.
00:36:54
John 2nd try
Thank you.
00:36:55
johngrimsmo
Actually, I think Tucker has a whole ton of them.
00:36:59
John 2nd try
Can just order them through him then to not deal with?
00:37:00
johngrimsmo
Maybe. I mean, there's no tariffs on the notebook.
00:37:01
John 2nd try
Okay.
00:37:03
johngrimsmo
It's fine. um
00:37:04
John 2nd try
Okay.
00:37:05
johngrimsmo
But yeah, yeah, no problem.
00:37:05
John 2nd try
I'll DM him. Okay. Yeah, thanks.
00:37:08
johngrimsmo
No problemo. Yeah, they're hugely valuable. um
00:37:14
johngrimsmo
What was it? ah I don't think we talked about this. A couple weeks ago, you were talking about Notebook LM, the kind of automated podcast ah deep dive ref.
00:37:20
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:37:25
johngrimsmo
I don't know. What what would you call it real quick?
00:37:28
John 2nd try
ah I don't know.
00:37:29
johngrimsmo
It like parses big data and just gives you a summary and it can give it to you in a podcast format.
00:37:36
John 2nd try
Well, the two two quick reasons I know about it that are interesting. Number one is notebook LMC needs to be the best. If you want to upload all your Akuma manuals or FANUC manuals or whatever, it just say, Hey, like, Hey, tell me how I reset the coolant pump alarm. and It'll just tell you immediately. It's insanely good at that.
00:37:49
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:37:49
John 2nd try
And then also you can just upload it links to Wikipedia sites, YouTube videos, any, any sort, any PDF, any source whatsoever. And just say, create a podcast on this topic. And it does it in an NPR like voice that I think you can now vouch for is
00:38:01
johngrimsmo
Yeah, which which you did to me, you know, 30 minutes after one of those podcasts. And you basically told me you pointed it to Art Podcast and my website and said, give me a 12 minute podcast on this thing.
00:38:12
johngrimsmo
And it is nearly indistinguishable from real people. There were a couple spots where if you know, you know, um but it was a lady and a guy and they had this amazing conversation about Grimmsmo Knives and about the Business and Machining podcast.
00:38:25
John 2nd try
you
00:38:26
johngrimsmo
And one of my favorite bits, it was like weird to listen to because it was like really well done.
00:38:30
John 2nd try
Right?
00:38:31
johngrimsmo
And one of my favorite bits at the end was, ah you know, the guy's telling something about the pen and the lady goes, oh, and then don't forget about the the Saga Pocket books. You know, they make these too. And because they've documented their entire journey, it's almost like they're making the books to get you to document your journey too.
00:38:48
johngrimsmo
And I was like blown away. i was like, what?
00:38:51
John 2nd try
I know. Right?
00:38:53
johngrimsmo
need to use that.
00:38:55
John 2nd try
Yes. Yes. Even the intro, it's like, hey, Sam. Hey, John. How are you doing today? Hey, we're going to go deep in the world of knife making at the ultimate level. These guys are running kerns. You're like, what the fudge is going on here?
00:39:09
johngrimsmo
you
00:39:10
John 2nd try
It's pretty crazy.
00:39:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it was wild. All right, moving on.
00:39:15
John 2nd try
um
00:39:16
johngrimsmo
um
00:39:16
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:39:17
johngrimsmo
So we've been getting or profile blade profiles and handles water jet cut for years.
00:39:23
John 2nd try
Yep.
Laser vs Water Jet Cutting
00:39:24
johngrimsmo
It's great process.
00:39:24
John 2nd try
Yep.
00:39:24
johngrimsmo
We have our ways are now. So we're doing a little bit of in house water jet. but You know, you buy the titanium in a big sheet, you get your handles water jet cut, and it's kind of great. um Same for the blades, and you you'll water jet little holes for the screws to mount all your parts.
00:39:38
johngrimsmo
um We've been doing that forever. Our titanium supplier got a really nice laser of cutting machine, laser cutting machine, um And they've been laser cutting our titanium for years now.
00:39:48
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:39:51
johngrimsmo
And they're getting cleaner cut, way faster, way cheaper.
00:39:55
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:39:55
johngrimsmo
No heat affected zone or none to speak of. um And it's like better. Like, holy cow. ah So I've got a buddy um around here in near Toronto who has a really nice big laser cutter too.
00:40:03
John 2nd try
Mm-hmm.
00:40:09
johngrimsmo
And it's like nitrogen purged or something, which keeps the cutting zone cooler or the heat affected cooler. less kind of thing. Cause that's always the worry. Imagine if you laser cut a blade profile, but your heat affected zone is a hundred thou and you're only machining off 50 thou.
00:40:24
John 2nd try
Sure.
00:40:25
johngrimsmo
Now you're cutting edge is a heat affected zone, regardless of heat treat and things like that. So the big worry in the knife world is, will your edge chip if this whole goes wrong kind of thing?
00:40:36
John 2nd try
I don't think it changes the heat affected zone.
00:40:36
johngrimsmo
Um,
00:40:40
John 2nd try
I just think the nitrogen acts as a per shield gas that stops the hot cut area from reacting with oxygen.
00:40:47
johngrimsmo
very possible, very possible.
00:40:51
John 2nd try
But it's so good that the he effect zone is is minimal.
00:40:53
johngrimsmo
Maybe that's what it is. Um, and maybe technology of laser cutters has gotten so much better in the past 10 years or something, but, um, anyway, so we just sent two sheets off to, um, to my buddy there at literally cut my parts.ca.
00:41:08
johngrimsmo
Uh, he's, you know, trying
00:41:10
John 2nd try
Ooh, watch out sink us in.
00:41:11
johngrimsmo
Exactly. He's trying to be the mini Canadian sun cut in which is amazing.
00:41:14
John 2nd try
I know, love
00:41:14
johngrimsmo
like Go for it, man.
00:41:15
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:41:16
johngrimsmo
um And the pricing, like we have a local waterjet place where we literally drive the sheets. I throw them in the back of my car and I drive them you know five minutes away and they waterjet cut them for me.
00:41:26
John 2nd try
Okay.
00:41:27
johngrimsmo
But waterjet is a very dirty process. That's why I do not want a big waterjet.
00:41:31
John 2nd try
Hold on.
00:41:32
johngrimsmo
We have the Wazer. It's enclosed, but I don't want a big one. It sprays, there's sand everywhere. parts Steel parts rust very quickly. um Even we see it in our Wazer.
00:41:43
johngrimsmo
If you're cutting a blade for an hour and by the time you come back, it's rusted. it's i mean Yeah, they're they're loud and annoying.
00:41:48
John 2nd try
Well, believe they create actual mini sonic booms because the water is supersonic and it like creates a really uncool noise or can. yeah Yeah. I like totally hear you though.
00:41:58
johngrimsmo
and But the rust is super annoying. And because of that, like the cut rust within minutes pretty much. And the parts themselves, the surfaces will rust within minutes or hours if they're not taken off, cleaned, rubbed.
00:42:14
johngrimsmo
And then we have them dip them in a slushing oil, which then they come to us super oily.
00:42:17
John 2nd try
OK.
00:42:19
johngrimsmo
We have to clean them in Varsol. It's like so much work. And I'm across the whole business. I'm really starting to see all this way too much work. Um, to achieve the goal.
00:42:28
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:42:29
johngrimsmo
So anyway, my buddy is now going to laser cut these and his price is, think it was like eight times cheaper than water jet.
00:42:38
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:42:39
johngrimsmo
Like silly, silly cheap and no water, no rust, no mess.
00:42:42
John 2nd try
Yep.
00:42:43
johngrimsmo
I'm like, okay, so he has the sheets. I haven't received the parts back yet, but I think it'll be great.
00:42:50
John 2nd try
Awesome.
00:42:51
johngrimsmo
So just PSA out there, look into laser cutting if, you know, yeah,
00:42:52
John 2nd try
I'll be curious. Yeah. Yeah, I'll be curious how you get along. um If there will be hard, yeah, yeah.
00:43:00
johngrimsmo
And I mean, that's what Suncut Sun build their business on is laser cutting steel, right? They're not water jet cutting all that stuff.
00:43:08
John 2nd try
They have water jets, but I don't know if maybe that's for like non-conductive stuff.
00:43:12
johngrimsmo
Or like very specific purposes or something.
00:43:13
John 2nd try
oh
00:43:14
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:43:15
John 2nd try
Sure, that's awesome.
00:43:17
johngrimsmo
That's great. so
00:43:18
John 2nd try
it so It reminds you the whole, like the best way to be lean is just delete it. Like delete all these rust and clean so aspects of things.
00:43:21
johngrimsmo
Literally.
00:43:23
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:43:26
johngrimsmo
um I have another big delete it theory.
Innovations in Packaging and Home Automation
00:43:30
johngrimsmo
I'll rush through it if you're if you're up for it.
00:43:32
John 2nd try
yeah if No, take your time.
00:43:34
johngrimsmo
So the when we package our knives in the NETA cases, hard plastic shell case, and we have the foam that's inside, you've seen them before, it's like an Oreo.
00:43:39
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:43:44
johngrimsmo
It's like black on top, gray in the middle, black on the bottom. We have always had problems making these foams. And it's quite an involved process.
00:43:51
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:43:53
johngrimsmo
We get it from a manufacturer that buys a huge chunk of foam. They slice it on what's called a skiving machine. It's like a horizontal bandsaw pretty much.
00:44:00
John 2nd try
Oh, yeah, sure.
00:44:01
johngrimsmo
um And they just, so they skive these thicknesses and they do not, it's very hard to hold consistent thicknesses.
00:44:08
John 2nd try
Sure.
00:44:08
johngrimsmo
You know, we yeah asked for a quarter inch and it might be a quarter on one side and an eighth on the other side. and we're like, ah no.
00:44:12
John 2nd try
Yeah, right.
00:44:13
johngrimsmo
um And then they laminate them together into an Oreo and then We've had them start to do some of the machining, and we do a lot of the machining ourselves, then we laser engrave, and there's just like a lot of law and a lot of steps.
00:44:25
johngrimsmo
um We just ordered a very, very large batch of machined foams from them, and it's all out of spec.
00:44:33
John 2nd try
uh
00:44:34
johngrimsmo
Every single one.
00:44:36
johngrimsmo
98% of them are all going back to them ah for, yep.
00:44:39
John 2nd try
you're just rejecting them yeah i'm sorry
00:44:40
johngrimsmo
which sucks and we're out and ah you know it's ah it's a problem.
00:44:42
John 2nd try
here
00:44:45
johngrimsmo
So then I stepped back and I was like, this is stupid. How do we how do we rebuild this from the start? like what What else could we do? We could 3D print and insert. I don't like that for a lot of reasons. um And then i thought, how is foam made chemically? Like,
00:45:01
John 2nd try
It's like poor stuff.
00:45:02
johngrimsmo
Part A, Part B, and then it expands, right? And in the model making and prop making industry, like for Hollywood, the Smooth-On company has been doing this since 1897.
00:45:11
John 2nd try
Yes.
00:45:13
johngrimsmo
um They, ah along with many other companies, have a two-part expanding polyurethane foam.
00:45:19
John 2nd try
a
00:45:20
johngrimsmo
So I've already ordered my samples and they'll be here today, I think. And we're going to look into casting these ourselves into a mold. And then you you fill the mold with the epoxy, it'll expand to the size of the mold.
00:45:29
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:45:32
johngrimsmo
And the mold is created from three d printed parts and silicone wrapping it.
00:45:36
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:45:37
johngrimsmo
man And I'm like, so for ah 3D printing is the hardest part of this whole process. I think, yeah, I mean, there's a lot more to it. And ah I did probably 20 plus hours of research over the weekend, just learning all about the different ways to do this and all the different kinds of foams and all that stuff. But I am so excited to see if this is viable.
00:45:59
John 2nd try
But does it solve the the need for colored layers?
00:46:02
johngrimsmo
You can do it yourself with just multiple, multiple, um,
00:46:08
johngrimsmo
prints, whatever you call it, multiple expansions of foam in different colors. And then you lament you like over mold them. Does that make sense?
00:46:17
John 2nd try
so you oh So you'll just glue, you'll you're not gonna, well, okay.
00:46:20
johngrimsmo
Like i'd I'd make a thin black one first and then I would put it in the bigger mold and then put in the gray and it would and would stick to it.
00:46:22
John 2nd try
Yeah, yeah.
00:46:25
John 2nd try
I'm with you, I'm with you.
00:46:27
johngrimsmo
um But for first, we'll just do all black or gray or whatever we mix the color to and we'll just see if it works.
00:46:27
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:46:30
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:46:33
johngrimsmo
And then if we want to sandwich the layers, it will possibly double the effort and we may choose not to. um
00:46:40
John 2nd try
Yes.
00:46:41
johngrimsmo
So like. But my my kind of stretch goal is for it to be 10 times faster and 10 times cheaper. And I think we will actually achieve most of that, which is like huge.
00:46:53
John 2nd try
I remember watching the video because i was like, i don't know, how's foam made? Because it's not like it grows on foam trees or and foam farms in the ground.
00:46:56
johngrimsmo
Yep. No, exactly.
00:47:00
John 2nd try
And then you're like, oh, it's just like, ah like I think it would great stuff, expanding insulation.
00:47:05
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:47:05
John 2nd try
like, okay, mix A and B, but instead of it turning into silicone or you're a poly or not, sort of JBL epoxy, it just bubbles up and i don't know how it bubbles to some reaction.
00:47:11
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:47:15
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:47:15
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it creates its own bubbles. and Yep.
00:47:17
John 2nd try
I'd be curious, I thought that it's, the way they do it at scale is they cast huge volumes and then they and then to your point, they cut it down because I don't know, I'm not challenging you, I just don't know how you're gonna be able to labor-wise efficiently at like small sections at a time.
00:47:23
johngrimsmo
Yep, exactly. yep
00:47:31
johngrimsmo
So how most people mix two-part silicones or u polyurethanes or whatever is like in buckets and they stir it together then they put it in the vacuum degasser and they pull all the bubbles out and then they pour it in
00:47:38
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:47:42
johngrimsmo
um But what they do in industry is they have those um two-part epoxy nozzles with the little squigglies in the front that mix it automatically.
00:47:48
John 2nd try
Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:51
johngrimsmo
And that could either be air pressure ah pushed, you know, you make pressure canisters that will push the epoxy through the nozzle and you can do little solenoids to trigger it on and off.
00:47:55
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:48:01
John 2nd try
Yes.
00:48:02
johngrimsmo
And it's it's just a resin part A into one solenoid and one hose and all that stuff is never going to cure. and then a resin part B, and then through the mixing nozzles when they go together. So like, there's absolutely a way to, let's call it semi-automate this with a trigger gun.
00:48:14
John 2nd try
yes
00:48:16
johngrimsmo
And then you just have these mold cavities. You can print as many as you want. You have, you know, two, 10, 50, whatever, and just... You can't...
00:48:24
John 2nd try
I want to know if you could continuous cast this stuff.
00:48:28
johngrimsmo
you
00:48:29
John 2nd try
How long does it take? Do you know the cure up?
00:48:31
johngrimsmo
Um, it, it expounds up within about, I forget if it was 30 seconds or five minutes.
00:48:32
John 2nd try
Form up?
00:48:35
johngrimsmo
I think it's you know pretty hard within five minutes.
00:48:38
John 2nd try
Yeah. I mean, may not be what you're looking for, but you could build a little line and just have it when you turn it on, it just, it's a continuous, it's like Durabar. It's continuous casting where, and then,
00:48:47
johngrimsmo
Hmm. But each mold has its own features inside and has to be like a complete, like individual piece.
00:48:53
John 2nd try
Oh, because you're not going to then post machine any of it.
00:48:56
johngrimsmo
No, I don't want to machine anything.
00:48:57
John 2nd try
I'm with you. I'm with you.
00:48:58
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:48:58
John 2nd try
Okay. Okay. Yeah.
00:49:00
johngrimsmo
So, Yeah, ill i'll I'll post test results as we go.
00:49:02
John 2nd try
Okay. Well, that's a great... Keep keep it posted.
00:49:05
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:49:07
John 2nd try
DIY making phone post...
00:49:09
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:49:12
John 2nd try
Good segue to a topic I'll just bring up real quick. If anybody listening is used um home home assistant... which is, it doesn't have to be on a Raspberry Pi, but it often is. And it's a home, it's it's a nice example of kind of the clear winner in the home automation world.
00:49:30
John 2nd try
um It doesn't look all that overly intimidating. And there's a number of tutorials and videos out there. So I'm no concerned starting with it, but I'm just curious, especially if anybody in our industry is using it.
00:49:41
John 2nd try
I freaking hate the Alexa app for, we have like 20, 30 routines and you can only edit them on the app and you can't like, it's just complicated and permissions and people signing in and here.
00:49:53
John 2nd try
So home assistant would let us do a lot more elegance with how we want to do certain things at the shop, like open and close compressors and lights and power and all that.
00:50:04
John 2nd try
And I frankly would use it at home as well for home personal stuff. But then the other thing I'm thinking about is it might be a really nice way to have a complimentary tie into the one piece of automation stuff that we're about to start because because it's so easy at integrating um sensors and inputs and outputs and 110 systems and like, I'm making this up now.
00:50:18
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:50:27
John 2nd try
we we We also don't have unlimited IO on the UR side of things. So it's like, hey, you could have a sensor that just detects if there are parts in these trays, then turn on the ultrasonic or heat up the heat up the anti-rust tank or whatever, you know.
00:50:43
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:50:44
John 2nd try
take the lid off of it and then it becomes available. Like all these little things I think that would be really interesting to do through that.
00:50:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah, you're putting all the logic into that Raspberry Pi not relying on the UR the Speedio to do these triggers.
00:50:56
John 2nd try
Yeah, right, right. Although, it's interesting, CJ just found that there's a, new to me, it's been out for a couple years, but there's a true industrial PLC thing from Arduino now that didn't exist years ago when I was playing with Arduino. What's it called? PLC.
00:51:13
John 2nd try
It is called Opta, O-P-T-A.
00:51:16
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:51:17
John 2nd try
That looks really interesting. That could also be interesting.
00:51:20
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
00:51:20
John 2nd try
Anyway, if anybody's listening, reach out. I'd love to have a to talk about it.
00:51:24
johngrimsmo
Yeah, there's probably a lot of PLC ah ah gurus out there.
00:51:29
John 2nd try
Yeah.
00:51:32
John 2nd try
That's got, though.
00:51:32
johngrimsmo
Amazing. Well, I can leave stress-relieving titanium and steel until next week.
00:51:38
John 2nd try
Oh, yeah. Next week. Good.
00:51:39
johngrimsmo
And that's about it.
00:51:42
John 2nd try
Great. See you next week.
00:51:45
johngrimsmo
All right, buddy. Have a good week, man.
00:51:48
John 2nd try
Take care. Bye.
00:51:48
johngrimsmo
Yep, bye.