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Why Most CEOs Fail to Perform – And How One Tiny Habit Can Change Everything
63 Plays18 days ago
What if the key to high performance isn’t doing more — but doing less, strategically?
In this episode of The CEO’s Wing Woman® Podcast, I’m joined by my incredible client Claire Jackson, Chief Habits Officer at The Habit Lab, to unpack the surprising reason so many CEOs struggle to sustain success. Claire shares her expert insights on behaviour design, habit formation, and how small, intentional shifts in your daily routine can drive massive results.
Drawing on nearly 20 years of experience in leadership development, she offers powerful, practical strategies to help you prevent burnout, reclaim your time, and build a rock-solid foundation for sustainable growth.
Whether you're an ambitious CEO, a purpose-led founder, or a visionary woman juggling business and motherhood — this episode is packed with insights to help you lead with more energy, clarity, and resilience.
Key Takeaways:
- Why traditional productivity hacks fail — and what actually works
- How small, intentional habits can radically improve leadership performance
- The science behind "tiny habits" — and why they stick
- How to prevent burnout and build a work-life rhythm that fuels you
- The #1 mindset shift every CEO needs to make for long-term growth
Connect with Olivia Jenkins:
Instagram: @oliviajenkins.co
Website: www.oliviajenkins.co
Loved this episode? Subscribe, share, and tag me on Instagram with your biggest takeaway!
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Transcript
Introduction to CEO's Win Woman Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to the CEO's Win Woman podcast. I'm Olivia Jenkins, your host and strategic partner, helping you elevate your brand to cult-like status. Over the past five years, I've helped over 500 visionary CEOs to generate in excess of $70 million in revenue.
00:00:17
Speaker
And now it's time for me to share my tips, tricks, and strategies to help you supercharge your growth. I'm here to help you step into your power to develop a bulletproof business and growth mindset to match.
00:00:29
Speaker
Consider me your secret weapon to scale. Let's get started.
Building a Strong Business Foundation
00:00:33
Speaker
When we think of successful CEOs, we think of vision, confidence, strategy. But here's what we often forget.
00:00:41
Speaker
None of that matters if the foundation is cracked. Burnout, chaos, no time to think. Not because we're not capable, but because we've built a big business on broken systems.
00:00:53
Speaker
And that's where habits come in.
Meet Claire Jackson, Chief Habits Officer
00:00:55
Speaker
Today's guest, Claire Jackson, is a certified Tiny Habits Coach and Leadership Consultant, but that barely scratches the surface. She has spent nearly 20 years inside some of the world's leading universities, building training models and development programs that transform how people perform.
00:01:13
Speaker
She's worked across Australia, the yeah UK and beyond. helping leaders at every level shift their behavior and rewire the way that they lead. And now she's doing something bold.
00:01:24
Speaker
She's rebranded her business, stepped into a new identity as Chief Habits Officer, and built a new kind of space for personal and professional transformation, the Habit Lab.
00:01:35
Speaker
This episode is a roadmap for every founder who wants to scale without burning out.
Scaling Without Burnout
00:01:41
Speaker
It's about behavior design, yes, but more than that, it's about reclaiming your power one small intentional action at a time.
00:01:49
Speaker
Let's get stuck in. Claire, welcome. I'm so excited to have you on the show and teach us all things habits. I'd love if you could take the stage and just give a little bit of an intro about who you are, what you do, and how you work with clients.
00:02:06
Speaker
Hi, Liv. It's such a joy to be here and start in our Wednesday morning together. and I'm Claire, I am the Chief Habits Officer at The Habit Lab and I empower people with a toolkit, a system that is going to help them thrive in work and life. So i my intention is to bridge that gap between well-being and nurturing our potential as individuals and
00:02:37
Speaker
and then performance, achieving that high performance so that we can thrive. And what that looks like is being able to mitigate any risk of overwhelm and particularly burnout specifically, which a lot of us as high achievers exp experience and if we don't have these solid foundations around our habits, which are essentially just the things that we do day in, day out.
Training Programs for Personal and Professional Development
00:03:04
Speaker
So I work with organizations across all sectors to come in and deliver training, personal and professional training and development programs that really do bridge that gap and are quite unique in nature because we do look at the person as well as you know what they can do in an organization. And and yeah, it's been a really fun journey.
00:03:28
Speaker
So far, but very early days and for the business. So this has been such a brilliant time just to play with what the opportunities are, what people really need when it comes to habit change in a world that doesn't allow us to stop.
00:03:44
Speaker
here Absolutely. I'm really excited for this episode because I know that a lot of our listeners are visionary CEOs. They are big picture ideas people. They often have ah million things on the go and lots of plates spinning in the air. um And particularly, you know, in line with motherhood as well, a lot of our listeners are also moms and that's a juggle, you know, with personal life and professional
Understanding Tiny Habits
00:04:06
Speaker
life. So I'm so excited for all that we're going to cover today and all the amazing tips and tricks that you'll share with us.
00:04:13
Speaker
um One of the things that I wanted you to explain a little bit is the the tiny habits part of what you do. but listeners that are not familiar with tiny habits, could you give a bit of an intro on exactly what that is?
00:04:28
Speaker
Sure, um I would love to. So I came across the habit the tiny habits book and it is a book that was published a few years ago from an academic at at Stanford University and he has looked at behavior design for a couple of decades and has put everything he knows into three-step method. I came across this book and it really relates to my own personal journey of habit evolution, transforming the habits that I have struggled with my whole life.
00:05:01
Speaker
And, you know, I had to reach that rock bottom moment that many of us do in order to make change and shifts happen in our life. um I was diagnosed with a chronic health condition.
00:05:13
Speaker
i was a new mum. It was the middle of COVID. i My quality of life was really at the bottom of a barrel. I really didn't know and how to look after myself. And I was definitely...
00:05:26
Speaker
and in chronic burnout. So I was throwing myself into work because that was the only thing I felt like I could control. couldn't control the things that I was feeling, the the physical health symptoms I was experiencing, and I was relying on unhealthy habits that were actually feeding the very illness that I was experiencing but couldn't get a diagnosis for.
00:05:51
Speaker
And so my dark soul of the night was when I was sat across from my rheumatologist and he told me, I'm going to cut my life expectancy by 15 years if I do not do something about this.
00:06:06
Speaker
At this point, I had been living in in survival mode for about 18 months. And so my health had deteriorated. I'd gained 45 kilos and I was pretty immobile and I wasn't able to show up as the mom that I wanted to be for my son.
00:06:25
Speaker
And so he said this to me once I had my diagnosis, which was for lupus. Lupus SLE is a chronic illness that basically the immune system attacks itself. He said these words and finally I listened and decided that I needed to take action. But where do you start when everything has fallen apart around you?
Claire's Personal Journey With Tiny Habits
00:06:45
Speaker
Well, I knew that one thing I had to do because my my blood results were not getting any better was to start remembering to take my medication. Now, at the time, i was also undiagnosed ADHD, which explains why i couldn't remember to do the things I knew were good for me.
00:07:02
Speaker
um But I went away and he used the word habit. And that was my trigger to go and seek out knowledge and information around, well, how do you build a habit when you struggle to remember to do anything? I'd never been able to take a vitamin. I'd never been able to floss my teeth.
00:07:19
Speaker
I'd never been able to be consistent with anything really. And I remembered this book that had come through in a self-development subscription box that I'd signed up to. And it's the Tiny habit Habits book by B.J. Fogg.
00:07:34
Speaker
It's a best-selling book. and People are probably familiar with Atomic Habits more than this. I like to joke that it's the pooter second cousin of Atomic Habits. However, I've read all of the all of the books out there and can validate that I think this is a superior method because of the systematic way that it structures habit design.
00:07:57
Speaker
I really connected to that. Like, I think I should have been an engineer in a previous life. So if you like processes and steps and I know you do live i think this is the this is the method for you you don't need to read the whole book you just need to know the method so I started with the medication and slowly but surely that built um confidence and competence in my ability to remember to do the things I needed to do before I knew it I'd you know taken my meds for ah few years um a few weeks sorry a few months and then well now it's been quite a few years
00:08:32
Speaker
And I started to notice that I was feeling better. That then gave me the ability to do things, take back control of my time, um work less, prioritize my health more.
00:08:45
Speaker
And over time, you know, taking these tiny actions, reducing the habit to the smallest possible component that you can when it's something that you've struggled with for so long is powerful.
00:08:58
Speaker
You know, it's the 1% rule. do something 1% more every day. And by the end of the year, you will be 37 times more competent i am in what in that action, in that habit.
00:09:14
Speaker
So that's the the concept. there are you know There's a lot to consider when we when it comes to habit design, but the concept essentially is that we need to break it down to the smallest component and we need to or use the kind of habit loop theory to design habits where we're cued to do something by an existing habit and then we celebrate.
00:09:39
Speaker
So starting and small, starting tiny is really the key and that's the premise of Atomic Habits and Tiny Habits. Amazing. Thank you. And that's such a powerful story that you've had in regards to being able to take yourself from you know what you describe as rock bottom to now you know, being in this incredible business that you've created, being able to then transfer that knowledge and the skills that, you know, you've created over a long corporate career and combine the two together to be able to help people achieve their goals, become more successful and become more fulfilled in their day-to-day life.
00:10:16
Speaker
Can you walk us through a little bit around the work, Claire, the professional Claire and the personal Claire? Because we've heard a little bit about your story now, which is so incredible from your personal background.
00:10:27
Speaker
How did you then put those two things together for professional Claire and, you know, the amazing career that you've had so far? It's a beautiful question to kind of reflect on because it's a story that I don't tell and very much at all.
00:10:42
Speaker
But when I do think about the the journey that I've had in my career and where it's gone, you know, i've I've tried, I've dipped my toe in the entrepreneurial world specifically. for years now. And I've, you know, I remember saying every plane journey I would have when I was in the university sector, I would be scribbling and in a notebook or in my notes on my phone about i different ideas, you know, what could I bring into the world to to make a difference in some way.
00:11:12
Speaker
And I remember doing the Ikigai Japanese, you know, what is it that do what you kind of, you love, what you're good at, what you have skills in, what's going to make a difference and where you look at, you know, what is your purpose?
00:11:26
Speaker
And I had not landed on it until I started to evolve my personal life And then I brought it, started to bring it in to my professional life.
00:11:39
Speaker
So I worked in skills development with students and researchers for 20 years. And I had never been at the forefront of teaching. I'd always been in the back end. Like I was helping the programs to run. I was putting the strategy in place. I was seeking out the resources. I was providing the leadership around programs.
00:12:04
Speaker
and and training in universities in the UK and Australia. But I always shied away from being in the spotlight and doing the actual delivery. And I didn't have a niche area. I always referred to myself as jack of all trades and master of none.
00:12:19
Speaker
And it wasn't until I kind of transformed my life. And you know, they say, do the thing that people ask you about. Mm-hmm. And people were asking me about how have you transformed your life? How have you gone from burnout and really just everything falling apart and not having any control of the things that you do and your time i to being able to really step up and into your potential and to reclaim yourself again. And you seem like really happy and thriving.
00:12:48
Speaker
And so I decided to go and learn the tiny habits method. So I became certified and it was really more like, I love learning and development. Clearly you're working it. but It was really like just to learn more and to meet BJ Fogg, who i was a bit of a fangirl of and, and to experience, you know, the training with a view that I might do it as part of my role.
00:13:10
Speaker
i thought, Oh, I could probably deliver a few things as part of induction for students or just do a little like lunch and learn session heat in there. and um but my, ah i like I got the certification, it was fab.
00:13:23
Speaker
And then a friend who worked for the Department for Education in South Australia said, hey, it's Mental Health Awareness Month in October. Would you be willing to do a session, like a one hour session um or the Tiny Habits Method? And I recoiled.
00:13:42
Speaker
was like, oh, my God, like that's so confronting. I don't i don't deliver. and i don't put myself out there. I'll talk about it one on one. No problem. But doing that was really ah stretch.
00:13:54
Speaker
But I did it. And it was fab. And I felt elated. And I felt like I had finally found something that maybe I could, that lit me up from the inside out.
00:14:07
Speaker
I didn't need external validation. i just, I literally saw that the light bulbs and the difference it could make to people just in one hour. And it was on a screen, let a alone what I've seen since where I'm in rooms with people who are, have tried everything to get themselves to do the things they know are going to be good for them and help them be successful. And they have not managed yet until am able to share this method.
00:14:36
Speaker
and they put it into practice and they get the results that they've they've always wanted. So that's the story. It's evolved. It's been ah ah ah it's been an iterative transition.
00:14:48
Speaker
am i i did i did the sessions for you know a year alongside some consultancy work, working still again in universities on projects am until I've had the confidence giving myself the evidence that I could go all in and leave my job.
00:15:07
Speaker
And I left a very safe, secure, um you know, mid to senior level position and with a brilliant super to go all in on this because that's what we're here for, right? It's one precious life and we got to what makes our heart happy and in it.
00:15:25
Speaker
So I did it and it's been 18 months and it's not been easy, but I'm so grateful that took the leap. Amazing. ah I love that so much. And I think what you're describing when you went and did the thing that you were terrified to do, and then afterwards just felt so elated so excited. It's, there are certain things I think as, as humans, but also in particular as business owners, that when we do them, we leave and you just feel so lit up. Like I feel like that every time I do ah i call with a client or, you know, a group coaching call or a podcast, like the one today, I'll, you know, leave the episode and you just feel that, you know, the warm and fuzzy is that you're in the right place doing the right work. So I'm so glad that you found that. And,
00:16:11
Speaker
yeah, you've you've been able been able to create that with your business is is really exciting. That's your body telling you that you have connected back to self. Yes. And it's when we leave something, our body or gut or instinct always knows what's right.
00:16:28
Speaker
And when we listen, it's it's speaking our truth. So it's it's brilliant. I feel the same. And I love that I, that we get to feel that in every day rather than that disconnect and just feeling like we're not in integrity with our values or what we should be doing.
00:16:46
Speaker
Definitely. I'd love for you to walk us through how to approach designing a habit that actually sticks, because I think for many people, They know the power of habits and what habits can do in their life, but potentially haven't been taught a process that works or a step-by-step framework that actually works and possibly find themselves in a situation where they have the best intentions, they they write the checklist, they they have the the list of daily non-negotiables of the things that they need to do, but for some reason, they just can't seem to get that traction and the consistency with getting those things done.
00:17:25
Speaker
Absolutely. And it it does come down to the fact that we skip the step of design. So it would be like trying to build a house without having your plans, like without the architect having roadmap for you to to build that house. You're just going in and getting some bricks and and hoping that they stick together. That's not going to work.
00:17:49
Speaker
So when we're continually throwing in new things that we want to do or changing things that we don't want to do anymore, we become overwhelmed. Our brain just starts to shut down. So there's a part of the brain, the amygdala, it's been there since, you know, to protect us. We don't actually need it anymore. It was saber tooth tigers were chasing us.
00:18:10
Speaker
And this was our stress response to say, we need to run away and keep ourselves safe. That's when the amygdala fires up when we ask anything difficult of ourselves.
00:18:23
Speaker
And changing the things we've always done or bringing in anything new in a world where we are so overwhelmed, we make 35,000 tiny decisions a day is not going to work unless we design for success.
00:18:37
Speaker
So this is a step that and if anyone's listening to this and they have one thing that they want to take away, It's that if you want to change something, we want to do this, follow this three-step method.
00:18:49
Speaker
So what we need to do to make a habit really easy, let's say that you, so Olivia and your program, MTBA, we have our daily non-negotiables. So you ask of us as your cohort, and you need to do these things in every single day, no matter what.
00:19:09
Speaker
But that just gets put on a to do list or it sort of sits there in our brain like, yep, need to do the daily non-negotiables. But we haven't planned it in. We can even put it in the calendar at specific time. But if you haven't thought on that day, what is it that I'm doing? Where is it that I am going to be in order to do those non-negotiables?
00:19:28
Speaker
it's likely that you're going to miss it. You'll miss it or you'll skip it. yeah So what we need to do is identify an existing habit. So something you already do to connect the new habit to um in every day.
00:19:44
Speaker
So that's what's called our anchor or our cue. That's the thing that tells our brain, like, it's time to do your daily non-negotiables. We know from the research that we're actually blind to calendar reminders, and to post-it notes.
00:20:00
Speaker
i I do encourage that we still double down on the habit with these just to reinforce. I definitely think that that's a helpful and extra, but it's not actually going to determine success.
00:20:14
Speaker
What we want to do is go, right, after i me sit down with my coffee, So you know that you always have a coffee in the morning. The first thing you want to then do are your daily non-negotiables.
00:20:27
Speaker
But what we where we need to start is making it tiny, right? So I said to the group in school, and we need to actually start with one of those daily non-negotiables.
00:20:39
Speaker
Because otherwise, if we start with five and they maybe take 20, 25 minutes, again, our brain's going to fire up and resist and say, no, thank you. That seems really difficult today. I'm tired. I'm hungry. I didn't get enough sleep.
00:20:54
Speaker
Your brain starts to give you reasons not to do the hard thing. And it's a hard thing when we're asking of ourselves to change. So if you identify, though, that you every day you do have a coffee, every day you sit at your kitchen bench,
00:21:08
Speaker
this is the first thing you'll do and you'll start with one thing from those daily non-negotiables so it could be that it's posting a linkedin and doing some like five minutes of linkedin for example so it's not that you need to send 10 link message at direct messages it's that we just want to ask five minutes of ourselves, reduce it, remember, to the smallest possible component, make the habit tiny.
00:21:36
Speaker
And the third part of the habit is the celebration. So in James Clear's book or any sort of habit, theory and it talks about we talk about reward but what we do in the tiny habit method is bring that reward into the moment and that is what's going to supercharge the behavior to become a habit all habits start as one-time behaviors and what we want to do is and fast track the consistency so that they become these repeatable but these behaviors become a habit so we want to celebrate we want to tell ourselves good job
00:22:15
Speaker
You did the thing. Some people like to do a wee dance or some people do a fist bump or do a high five to themselves or whatever, it however you, whatever feels good for you to um get that dopamine hit from doing the thing. We want to do that.
00:22:33
Speaker
So we link it to an existing habit. That's your anchor. make the behavior tiny, as tiny as possible. We're talking five minutes, one page, three, write down three tasks, i am you know, plan out one day, like we just want it to be as small as possible.
00:22:51
Speaker
And then we want to celebrate. And that is, are the components, the ingredients or the formula for habit six success. Perfect. I love that so much. I think is why I've heard that before for meditation.
00:23:05
Speaker
You know how a lot of people struggle with that and they they start a meditation practice and maybe they try and jump straight into 20 minutes of meditation with the Insight Timer app with no guided meditation, no music, and it's just complete silence.
00:23:20
Speaker
That is so challenging to start that way, cold turkey with 20 minutes of meditation with no music and, you know, just your thoughts. It's so confronting. Yeah. i' having keep one other It's an exact example I bring in.
00:23:33
Speaker
And I give the mindfulness kind of techniques that you can just start with to show your brain, to give yourself the evidence that this is something that you enjoy and that you can actually do.
00:23:45
Speaker
But if you force yourself to sit there in silence on a meditation pillow, listening to something while your brain is in overwhelm and you cannot quiet your mind, it means that you're you're just going to give up.
00:23:58
Speaker
here but It's never going to become a habit because it doesn't feel good. like we We need these habits to feel as good as possible and start from a place of achievable um and not overwhelming.
00:24:13
Speaker
Slightly off topic and not at all related to business, but it's related to habits. As you were talking about the anchoring and pairing things together, my mind was thinking about the polarity of, of you know, good and bad or different.
00:24:26
Speaker
And I was thinking to myself, it's no wonder that smoking is highly addictive because I was thinking about for a lot of people, the coffee in the morning could be the anchor to have a cigarette. Right.
00:24:38
Speaker
And I think there's so many things. i'm I'm actually keen to unpack this further in regards to, you know, there's healthy habits and then unhealthy habits and potentially how to reverse unhealthy habits. I'm keen to unpack that a little bit. And maybe this is a good segue to go into it, but I think there's a lot of instances like that with glass of wine and this coffee and that.
Breaking Unhealthy Habits
00:25:00
Speaker
So I'd love the to speak to that a little bit. If you've got an unhealthy habit right now, And maybe you need to do a bit of cleanup over here and to make space for some healthier habits, potentially.
00:25:13
Speaker
How do you reverse a habit that's really ingrained? Maybe something that you've been doing for decades or for a really long time that's quite baked in. Yeah, it's a really good point. And often it is our anchor moments can be the trigger for the behavior that we really want to remove.
00:25:30
Speaker
i But we don't necessarily want to remove the trigger. So the coffee is not the problem, potentially. Potentially it as well. and It's the cigarette.
00:25:41
Speaker
So what the method teaches us is that we first of all need to start with our why. Like ah really connected to the motivation behind why we want to change the habit.
00:25:54
Speaker
So often I'll have, you know people come to me and they really want to build back exercise into their routine. And they think that they need to join a gym, or they think that they need to start running because that's what they've been told or they've seen or it's worked for their friend.
00:26:11
Speaker
But actually, when they connect to their own truth, like they don't they don't want to join a gym. They don't want to be in that environment. They don't potentially have the money.
00:26:22
Speaker
They don't want to run. They've never run the length of themselves. Like that's not the way of getting fit and that that is going to work for them. So what they need to say what they need to connect to is what is going to feel good for them and their why. So their why might be that they want to be able to run around in the playground with their child or they want to look, you know,
00:26:47
Speaker
fly and in on their holiday to Bali or they just want to feel like they know that exercise actually supports their mental health yeah i and they really want to work on that so that they feel more positive they felt flat so what is the why that's the first thing if you want to give up something that you deem to be negative have a negative impact I try and to move away from shameful language like good and bad that's not really going to help that only kind of cultivates like shame can't um shame cannot thrive in the dark so we want to we want to remove that language remove the shame and just draw a line in the sand and say okay we're going to move forward from here but often we expect to either go cold turkey we go too big too soon like we expect ourselves to just stop doing the thing yeah we put it off until we feel motivated enough
00:27:43
Speaker
And both of those things are huge errors when it comes to habit change. Motivation is a finite resource. We cannot rely on it. And we can't just expect too much of ourselves. Like we need to make sure that it's in a way that feels achievable, like I've said before.
00:28:02
Speaker
But ultimately, we can't just leave a gaping hole for ourselves when we cut this. So when you have your you're morning coffee, and you reach for the next thing you do is reach for a cigarette packet or you maybe reach for your phone it might not be smoking a digital scroll like yeah i was gonna say for those listening at home if the cigarette analogy didn't land for you it may not be that it it could be anything like i think a lot of time people watching tv might reach for the chocolate and maybe the chocolate is the habit they're trying to break or it could have even been you know negative self-talk exactly
00:28:39
Speaker
it It could be that you go into social media and you start to do have comparisonitis and you notice. The first step is noticing that it's something that feels good in the moment. You're always going to be rewarded for a habit, no matter if it's positive or negative in your life.
00:28:55
Speaker
yeah But noticing that it doesn't feel good, the aftermath of it is the first step. But we need to replace the habit with a new habit. We can't leave that gaping hole.
00:29:07
Speaker
So if every time, and now I'll do a confessional, this is a habit of mine that I am breaking as we speak, because I'm not immune, just because I know the theory does not mean I always put it into practice. Do the tea for us, Claire, we want to know.
00:29:21
Speaker
But every so my habit currently is after I sit down with maths, I will go to the cupboard and get a Tim Tam. And it's nine o'clock. It's not an optimal time. Like I always feel sick afterwards.
00:29:38
Speaker
It doesn't make me feel good. I'm not even hungry. So I've had to design a habit. Now, to be honest, I am in um realistic mode. And I've actually said, look, this is probably not something I'm going to break this week because I'm having a lot of late nights. I'm delivering um international things at nighttime and actually that is my wind down and and so I'm okay with it this week like radical compassion that is that self-acceptance like I'm all right with it but I will I know that when I do break the habit what I will do is every time I go into the cupboard because I'll still do it it's an automated behavior that maths has been on for quite a few weeks now and it's definitely a habit
00:30:22
Speaker
i Every time I open the cupboard, I will walk to the fridge and get my bottle of water and take a drink. And that pause is enough for me to connect to my why, for me to connect to the thought that this isn't actually what I need.
00:30:39
Speaker
And I ask myself, am I hungry? So that's the new habit i will put in place when I'm ready to quit the Tim Tam. I will ask I will go to the fridge, I'll give myself that circuit break opportunity and then I'll ask myself the question, am I actually hungry? And if the answer is no, then i will go and sit my butt back down and just watch maths.
00:31:01
Speaker
If the answer is yes, I'll ask, well, is this what's going to make me feel good? Is the Tim Tam what's going to make me feel good? And sometimes i have frozen grapes in the free freezer and that's like a really modish, nice little alternative snack. So you need to give yourself both alternative actions.
00:31:22
Speaker
And with things that are really addictive, like really get the dopamine spiking, like your you know social media, your phone scroll, i like something that is addictive, and we really need to make that new habit something that is it feels at least like some or some way to feel is good.
00:31:43
Speaker
ah here It needs to be something, yeah, that feels good for you. Do you think that there's a way that you could apply this process and framework to behavior? So for example, if you are experiencing the negative emotion of anger, if your default response when you're angry is to go and do X, whatever X resembles, do you think that you could apply this logic around habits to replace that negative emotion and and I guess what you do after with something that is more healthy or more positive? Is there is there some correlation there with behavior too?
00:32:19
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. So what is the opposite that you can do? So if you are having an emotion and you typically say you've got like overwhelm or stress and what you tend to do is go on your phone and online shop like impulse what is something that you can you know that that behavior is going to come up what is something that you can do instead but you have it at the ready you're not giving your brain like things to think about
00:32:50
Speaker
and in that moment because actually this is a fight or flight stress response whether you're angry or overwhelmed or tired or sad or whatever the emotion is you're you are having a response and you don't have rational thought we are in our emotional brain we're not in our logic brain so making choices that are better for us is all the more difficult which is why we need to just consider continually make it easier and easier and easier for ourself.
00:33:20
Speaker
Something that I introduced, because this is something I really struggle with, like I will always reach for the addictive, impulsive behavior. That is something that comes from having a noodle spicy brain. And I'll always reach for the like tap out, like what but how can I tap out?
00:33:38
Speaker
But asking me to think about something that's better for me in the moment, was also overwhelming and it just made me double down on the negative habit or behavior so i created something called my me time menu and it's a menu with three pillars three kind of columns yeah things i can do in less than five minutes so that's like your short sharp and shiny like step outside and take deep breaths put on a podcast that's five minutes or a playlist that I've already got. I've got one called High Vibe, like something that's going to jolt me out of the emotion, but maybe I've only got five minutes because I've got kindy pickup in half an hour or I've got a meeting that I need to get to or I just can't take longer than five minutes.
00:34:27
Speaker
Splashing cold water on your face. There's lots of things on my list that are five minutes. Like I pull an affirmation card just to connect back to myself and my body.
00:34:38
Speaker
How can you do that? Then in the middle is my kind 30 minutes, 30 minute mark, maybe 30 minutes to 45 minutes. So is what is it? Can I read a chapter of my book on my Kindle? Can I listen to a whole podcast?
00:34:54
Speaker
Can I take a minute to call a friend? Can I do some planning for my holiday that's coming up in Bali? I like ballet.
00:35:05
Speaker
and And then I've got my me time menu is I've got something what I like to call good for clear days. So it can be at like a half day or a full day where I plan out an actual experience. Like I'll take myself to the cinema and for a solo day. I'll maybe book in a massage.
00:35:25
Speaker
These take a bit more forward planning and aren't for when those emotions are regulated. But if you've had a week or a month of feeling like that, the best thing you can do for yourself is give yourself a reset that's a bit more substantial.
00:35:38
Speaker
i To really show to yourself that I matter and also to refuel that tank that's been continually depleted. And those days are really critical. And I know you encourage us m in TV to kind of build that in.
00:35:55
Speaker
But good for you, Dee. Like, what is a good for you, Dee? And this menu just removes the thinking out of it. It's one less thing to think about. And you can kind of, you can put it in your phone, in your notes.
00:36:08
Speaker
You can have a list of five-minute, 30-minute, half a day. um Or you can put it on your wall, print it out. Love that. It's part of the process that I go through in the million dollar year workshop, which we've done this session inside the business advisory where you plan out your year and you look at from a freedom perspective, what's something you can do for yourself every week, every month, every quarter, every year. And, you know, like you mentioned, some of those activities take some forward planning and many need to go into the calendar ahead of time and you need to make a booking.
00:36:39
Speaker
So having that thought process and that that clarity up front of these are the ways that I'm going to honour myself is really important because I find not only with myself but with clients as well.
00:36:52
Speaker
I, you know, if I ask a client, let's say, rate your self-care as a CEO, how you're feeling with your your energy, you know, your emotions, your capacity at the moment in all of the ways out of 10, with 10 being amazing and zero being, you know, I'm on the brink of checking myself into a hospital for burnout.
00:37:12
Speaker
Score yourself. And i I hear a score come back at, you know, a two or three or a four. that's crisis mode to be able to put those practices in place and and get that client to stop everything, go back to themselves, get themselves to a healthier space that they can show up with full capacity and be able to lead their business and lead themselves in their personal life.
00:37:33
Speaker
But what I find is if you don't have that habit in place where you've got a self-care ritual or cadence or frequency that you're sticking to, you can get to a point where maybe you might be fooled into thinking, I'm feeling really good. I don't need to do this anymore. Or I can, you know, start to backtrack a little bit. Maybe I won't go for the massage this month because I'm actually feeling okay.
00:37:57
Speaker
But then soon enough and sure enough, it does catch up with you. And I think that this is why the habits component is so important because sometimes, and I'm sure you see it with the the type of work that you do, you could be tricked into thinking that maybe you don't need to do that anymore.
00:38:14
Speaker
When in fact you do, it's just that you've gotten yourself to really good point, but that then needs to be maintained. You spot on. And the research shows us this.
00:38:24
Speaker
So what you've just described in and when we look at the five stages of burnout. the first stage is the honeymoon phase. And that's where we still have all the enthusiasm.
00:38:38
Speaker
We still are, you know, we're yes people. We are probably flexing our boundaries a bit because we want to show up. We want to do the things we want to put in our all. um And we can only do that for so long.
00:38:50
Speaker
And there are, I was presenting a session last night as part of International Women's Day um with women. And it was, there was over a hundred people on the call And we were talking about there are two types of people.
00:39:03
Speaker
There are people that have, and I've got 10 miles left in me in the tank. You look at the gauge on your fuel tank and it's like right on the red. But we're like, I've got 10 miles left. I can keep going.
00:39:17
Speaker
And then there are people who are probably like only a quarter of the tank is empty, but they know that they could do with the top up. they could do with refueling the tank and not many of us are on that side let me tell you I was going to say that is definitely my toxic trait it drives my husband nuts because every time he gets in my car it's on the you know the fuel lights on but my thing is always it's a bit of a game like can I actually make it home with this fuel light on doing life that's what we do business like I need to just keep going yeah just a little bit more one more hour
00:39:51
Speaker
one more of project one more committee one more commitment it's a huge thing for people that have been diagnosed or undiagnosed with adhd but an adhd brain is and this is how i think about it it's you know how some people can drink and then they don't have the filter or the the marker of i'm becoming too intoxicated i need to stop now and they keep going I've never understood that's not me, so I've never understood how that you know how that happens.
00:40:20
Speaker
But then I reflected on it and thought, well, hang on a second. If you replace drinking with working and you replace blackout drunk with burnout, that's no different to what a lot of people do with work. They don't get the flag of, okay, I'm tired, I need to go to sleep or I need to take a day off or I need to take a step back because if I don't, then I'm going to hit crisis mode.
00:40:42
Speaker
And so it ends up being that for a lot of business owners with that ADHD brain, it's this constant work, work, work, crash, work, work, work, crash. Exactly. And that is one of the other phases of burnout.
00:40:56
Speaker
It's that habitual stress and state. So we're just in, that's our norm. That's what we're used to. We don't really know any different. And so how are we meant to check in and go, I've pushed it too far?
00:41:10
Speaker
So what we do need to do is in every single day, we need to be checking in with ourselves. We need to have some sort of prioritization for our well-being holistically. And our well-being is body, mind, and soul.
00:41:27
Speaker
you know, those three things need to work together to have an effective human experience in the long run. So I was told explicitly, like, you're not going to not you're not goingnna live as long if you keep going this way.
00:41:40
Speaker
not all of us get that message. Like that was actually lucky for me to hear that because I would have kept going and I would have, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now.
00:41:51
Speaker
Never before have I ever been busier and have more on my plate, I would say, and as a single mom transitioning our business from one to the other. So kind of juggling two with no family structure, no support network, you know, that I can really call upon but I still prioritize my well-being no matter what because I know that I'm not just gonna pour from my cup I have to pour from the overflow of my I can't give to the people in my life to my work to my clients if I am running on anything but fool and I'm not saying that this is always my modus operandus
00:42:38
Speaker
It's not. I'm not perfect. um We are human beings and we have to be kind and compassionate ourselves. There are going to be weeks where it just doesn't look like that. And we know we've burned the candle at both ends.
00:42:50
Speaker
But as long as that's the exception and not the rule, then we get to thrive and we get to feel like we are living a life that is not just, you know, about working towards burnout.
00:43:06
Speaker
Yes, it's yeah, it's so important. And it's definitely a journey I've been on myself with having to work on habits that I've had in place where i have overworked, and I've overdone things, and I've over delivered. And you know, this starts to go into more around, you know, belief systems and values and, you know, how you've been raised. But I had to learn to undo a lot of, you know, things that I'd learned as a child growing up where I would only receive praise when i performed.
00:43:37
Speaker
And so that then created an addiction around How can I constantly be high performing? How can I constantly over deliver? And then that then led to a lot of unhealthy habits over the course of my career where I made myself too available to my own detriment. And a lot of the time it wasn't even being asked of me, but you know, some of us find ourselves in a position where we just, we overdo everything. And so it's been a real journey for me personally learning to undo some of those behaviors, replace them with healthier habits and give myself grace as well that it's okay to show up and do but you know do your best or do my best and that's fine. And I even had this experience last week where had a workshop that I was delivering and two hours before I i found out that one of my dear friends, her mom passed away that morning and she was just the most incredible human being, just like a second mom to me growing up.
00:44:34
Speaker
And I was a mess. I thought, how am I going to deliver this workshop in two hours time? I'm bawling my eyes out. This is just awful news. But I showed up. I did it. I did my best.
00:44:46
Speaker
You know, it probably wasn't my best work, but that's okay. I gave myself grace and I thought I'm really proud of me for showing up and doing that when i wasn't in my best state. And previously, the older version of me would have changed myself. I would have been really cross with myself.
00:45:02
Speaker
I would have, you know, had this standard, this unrealistic standard that I had to meet. But for me, it was a really challenge. observation that I made to take a step back and go wow I've been really kind to myself in this moment not shaming myself and giving myself that grace so I think behavior and habits as well is is so powerful it's not just about the gym routine or getting that LinkedIn post out in the morning it's all of the behavior that goes around how you're treating yourself on a day-to-day basis too
00:45:33
Speaker
thank you for sharing that Liv because I think there's so much power in vulnerability and the work of Brené Brown like is fascinating and then and really empowering like the more that we share the struggles and that we're showing up anyway and it doesn't have to be perfect like we don't have to do the thing you know it we're the one we we're meaning making machines that's it nothing is real it's all just made up and see when you actually connect to that point you're like wow none of it really actually matters like that you just shared a story that is actually life and death and you got to take breath that day um and you got to show up and you got to do the thing that you loved
00:46:20
Speaker
And you were grieving and you were going through something so vulnerable, but you still took the brave steps. You still took the action and you had to remove that perfectionist hat, like which many women suffer with, yeah um that we hold ourselves to such high standard. And I'm sure the story of what you experienced as a child and where you received reward and praise is it's very familiar to many people listening. It certainly was for me.
00:46:49
Speaker
That's all we've known. And that's, we have to unbreak, undo those generational kind of patterns and habits that we have created or coping mechanisms that we've put in place. Like you just we just have to have an awareness of them and not expect too much of ourselves.
00:47:07
Speaker
But the the vulnerability, like, We need more of that. We need more truth telling. And, you know, I've shown up to things where I've had, you know, so um I've had to show up to similar trainings and I've had some personal problems.
00:47:23
Speaker
and things going on and at some point you know I've had an emotional reaction to someone sharing their story and I've cried like in the front of a room and you know what the thing that in the feedback is thank you for being vulnerable and allowing me to do the same to feel safe yeah and that's just really that's a habit and the action like the confidence to do that comes from taking the action and it's the action that then makes it a habit and leads it to be your norm and that's what you're experiencing and that's where well-being starts like this is why you know we just need to start really small when we've always been the baller that never takes a day off that just keeps going or that doesn't share how they're really feeling and says yes to everything and doesn't move by all of that if that's our norm like we cannot expect to change that overnight so yes start start with one thing make it really small
00:48:20
Speaker
And then start to see that catalyst effect. And I guarantee it will happen. Change will happen for you. You just have to keep showing up.
Adding and Stacking New Habits
00:48:30
Speaker
yeah who are On that note, I'm curious to ask a lot of listeners, I'm sure are similar personality types, take on lots of things, potentially overcook things from time to time, or, you know, ah too fast, too furious, start putting a new habit in place. And to your point, try and do 10 things all at the same time.
00:48:50
Speaker
If they take the approach of doing one thing and nailing that and really baking that habit in, when is the right time to add the second habit in or the next habit if you're up to the second or third thing?
00:49:03
Speaker
Is there a marker or something that we should be looking for to know, okay, I've got this in the bag now. It's time to add the second thing and I think I can handle that. Only you can really answer that question.
00:49:17
Speaker
We know that habit change, on average, it takes 66 days to change a behavior. So you see all this 21 day challenges, 21 days to you know change your your life, 21 days to build your business, 21 days to get some abs.
00:49:33
Speaker
like that's not that's not real, i cannot change behavior. That was actually related to a really, um like a study where it was plastic surgeon was looking at how long it took people to get used to their new nose.
00:49:46
Speaker
So it's nothing to do with habit change. from the That's from the 60s and the media kind of jumped on it and bastardized it as they do. But we need to really give it time.
00:49:57
Speaker
We need to give it time and really sense check like the environment in which you're operating in the season of life. Some people will be able to, to cope with up to three changes at a time.
00:50:09
Speaker
Like if you're, if your life is kind of steady state, but if you're going through some turmoil or you've had some changes already, that are, you know, you feel like you are in that kind of overwhelm or you're kind of just going day to day, we do need to start with one thing. And then,
00:50:30
Speaker
and then you can start to either stack. So to make it easier for yourself, stacking essentially means building a habit onto this the same habit. Like the habits happen at the same time in that same window.
00:50:44
Speaker
And that can be a lot easier because you've already made the space for one thing. So could you add something else? Gotcha. So it could be like you've made your morning coffee, you've written down three things that you're grateful for and maybe that was the initial thing.
00:50:59
Speaker
And then you've added on that you're going to take that gratitude post and turn it into a social media post or something. Exactly. So you start with ah you know yeah the organization tasks, like how you're going to handle your day, manage your day, and then you move into something practical for the business like social media, LinkedIn, whatever it is. Yes, exactly. That's going to make it easier if you do the stack not trying to pick another time of day to introduce something else.
00:51:28
Speaker
But eventually, you know, I have 15 things that I do, my non-negotiables, I guess, every day. This is my um whiteboard that i fill in. m that And you can see that I've done really well this week, but I have been traveling, so I'm giving myself um some kudos.
00:51:45
Speaker
But i I break it into these are the things I do in the morning, these are the things I do throughout my day, and these are the things I do at night. And that just helps. You know, we know that tracking giving ourselves data can be really helpful.
00:51:58
Speaker
If you do want a way, like a more um methodical way to check if you're ready to start building out your habits, do use track a tracker, either you know in your diary or an app. There's lots of apps out there that you can use because then you can see, am I being consistent with this habit?
00:52:19
Speaker
You're not lying yourself. like It's hard to remember if you've actually, how long you've been doing things for. So use a tracker that will give you a pattern like that gives you the data.
00:52:29
Speaker
And if you've noticed that, well, yeah, actually being something consistently for three or four weeks and you've only missed couple of days, then that's likely that it's become a habit and you're ready for something else. But just remember, don't speed things up and go too hard, chi too too big.
00:52:46
Speaker
I was even thinking as well, potentially if you've done something for 66 days or more, then maybe ready. It should be baked in at that point. But to your point, i think... It's hard to have it is. So it can be the research. It's very recent research and it it was a huge study. 254 days is the upper limit.
00:53:05
Speaker
And if you've really, if that habit is fully ingrained, those neural pathways are going to be really hard to change and override. So just, you will know intuitively the data can tell you if you need that, and whether you're whether it's become a habit or not.
00:53:23
Speaker
Love that. Oh, I feel like I could talk to you all day about habits and life and behavior. It's been such a great conversation. I'd love to finish up with with three tips from you. Obviously, there are lots of visionary CEOs that listen to the show, high-performing women in you know businesses or in senior corporate roles, et cetera.
00:53:45
Speaker
What are three tips that you can share with listeners to finish up that are your go-to tips that you love to share with your clients on how they can build healthy habits in their life to improve their fulfillment? And, you know, as you were saying off air before, creating that harmony in their life.
00:54:05
Speaker
Well, the first step I would say is just try and make the habit as appealing and attractive as possible for you to do. So if it is that you want to have a more tidy desk, like, and you need to make, get that sorted, like at the end of every day, you know that you're a hot mess and you end up, the desk is just an absolute riot of papers and things and,
00:54:28
Speaker
cups and whatever and you know that every single day you want to clear the desk so that you start from a fresh place how do you make that appealing can you add music can you add a podcast when you do it every single time i put the washing away or hang it out i listen to a podcast non-negotiable i need that to drive me to do the behavior so think about habits that are really difficult as a week how do you ritualize how do you ritualize not only Do you then make it more likely you're going to do it, but you and do you um give yourself a reward for doing it whilst doing it?
00:55:07
Speaker
So supercharge the habit, find a way to ritualize. The second thing i would say is accountability is everything. You are going to be 65% more likely to do the thing if you say it out loud to someone. So pick up the voice note.
00:55:24
Speaker
um And you're going to be 95% more likely if you actually have someone that's checking in on you. So I just had a client who needed to get up earlier.
00:55:35
Speaker
She was really struggling to get out of bed in the morning. She would spend an hour on her phone scrolling. So what we did was her accountability, and this was kind of a ritual as well, so it was like doubled up, is um is she would take a selfie and send it to her friend. Mm-hmm.
00:55:54
Speaker
So it would say, I'm up, selfie. And that was her accountability mechanism. So it doesn't have to be another habit. That is another habit that she was bringing in. It can just be that you are, and someone is checking in with you.
00:56:08
Speaker
if we've done that But you need that accountability. You need to be honest with yourself. And the third thing don't skip celebration.
00:56:19
Speaker
make sure that the habit is designed in as the ABC. So remember, anchor, tiny behavior, celebration. and The celebration can be really wildly uncomfortable for people who have never been able to give themselves props.
00:56:35
Speaker
You know, some if you struggle to congratulate yourself, to celebrate yourself, it's likely you're going even struggle to do that silently. But please don't skip it. It is going to build that positive mentality is going to fast track the success of your habits in the long run.
00:56:53
Speaker
um And I think, yeah, those are my three hot tips when it comes to habit change. Thank you. That was brilliant and so, so helpful. On the dopamine thing though, the celebration part at the end, I remember reading, and maybe it was in Atomic Habits, but I remember reading that initially your brain needs that celebration, but over time the reward that you can get is the intrinsic value of what that habit has brought you. So if you know initially <unk> you're starting a new exercise regime or something and you're going to the gym, you might reward yourself with a nice protein shake afterwards or whatever it is.
00:57:30
Speaker
But in time, your reward is actually the fact that you've worked towards having a dream body and being stronger and having more energy. And then that sort of self-perpetuates, doesn't it? So you've got that that ongoing intrinsic value that you're getting.
00:57:43
Speaker
Exactly. yeah And the celebration, i guess, is different to the reward because it's just you acknowledging that you have done something hard, like you've done the thing that you said you would do.
00:57:57
Speaker
And yeah, it's like pat on the back. and And sometimes that just happens to fall away because it just is part of who we are. It becomes part of our identity.
00:58:07
Speaker
I start my day with a positive affirmation. Today is going to be a good day. And in fact, i've I've done it for nearly 800 days, pretty much consistently, no matter where I am.
00:58:18
Speaker
And that's the habit that everyone starts with and as part of the tiny habits method. But i don't I don't tend to say a good job for that anymore because it's just part of who I am.
00:58:29
Speaker
yeah i start the day and how you start the day is how you experience the rest of the day. So we want that to, if if anyone wants to do that, it's called the Maui habit.
00:58:40
Speaker
um And you can pop this into chat GPT, like give me some tiny habit ideas to start my day. and poop Use that and to help you design habits that are going to be the best for you and as ah the person that you want to show up as in this very precious life that we have.
00:59:00
Speaker
Yes. Amazing. Thank you so much for all of your wisdom and insights today. It's been incredible to have you on the show and thank Yeah, I'm so excited to get this episode live so everyone can start reaping all of the benefits from it.
00:59:13
Speaker
If listeners are keen to connect with you, how can they touch base with you to learn more about what you do or have conversations around tiny habits and making their their life more fulfilling?
00:59:26
Speaker
The best place to connect is LinkedIn. So that I've had a massive social media detox in the past 12 months and they have come off Instagram, but LinkedIn is where I hang out. I share tips and tricks and insights there.
00:59:40
Speaker
And I would absolutely love to continue the conversation am there and to support you in any way I can with evolving your habits. Amazing. Thank you, Liv, for such a brilliant conversation. It's so easy to have that with you.
00:59:54
Speaker
you i You're clearly a woman who knows their stuff when it comes to habits. So it super fun. Thank you. Thanks, Claire. It's been a pleasure to have you. And I hope you've enjoyed the episode today.
01:00:06
Speaker
As always, love hearing from you by Instagram, LinkedIn, all of the places. And um yeah, excited to have Claire back again, hopefully for version two. And we can do the next layer on habits and share even more value there.
01:00:20
Speaker
So thanks for joining us, Claire. Thank you so much for tuning into the show today. If you loved today's episode, be sure to let me know by leaving a five-star review at oliviajenkins.co.
01:00:31
Speaker
You can also connect with me via Instagram DMs at oliviajenkins.co or learn more on how we can work together at www.oliviajenkins.co. Have an amazing week and I can't wait to connect with you in the next episode.