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The Modern Mortician: Behind the Scenes of Funeral Planning
35 Plays4 years ago
There is so much controversy over the options that are available for the end of life processes due to differences in legislation, corporate greed and inaccurate information being put out there to people. While there are a variety of end-of-life options that people can choose from, it ultimately all comes down to what choice you and the family make when planning for the final event. That choice will come as a result of education, and from people who are willing to educate on the level of true information.
Jennifer’s interview with Melissa Unfred, known in the funeral industry as the Modern Mortician, is very informative because as an expert herself, she gives an overview of what the future holds for the industry. In this episode on the Glam Reaper Podcast, Melissa offers a whole new perspective on the new technology that can save our planet from destruction by using green practices such as natural burials or cremation instead of conventional burial methods.
Listen as Jennifer and Melissa talk about everything you should know in preparation for the final event in life. Please enjoy!
LITTLE NUGGETS OF GOLD:
- The Modern Mortician, Melissa Unfred, introduces herself
- How Kermit came into the life of Melissa and became her partner in crime of sorts in Tiktok and Instagram
- A course that Melissa will soon offer on the steps and trainings dog owners need to go through for their dogs
- How did Melissa shift to the green burial niche in the funeral industry?
- Melissa's viewpoint on educating people on green burial technology and why embalming is not her forte
- What are Melissa’s thoughts on the inaccurate information circulated on embalming and being pushed by some influencers and sectors with their own agendas?
- The premise of having a united educational course or degrees and licensing for the industry
- The current methods of disposition that Melissa is advocating for continuous learning
- Melissa’s personal burial preference
- What is composting?
- Different variations of Alkaline Hydrolysis, commonly referred to as water cremation
- What does Melissa think about the future of burials, particularly in terms of cremation?
- What can the funeral industry do in spite of it being the tiny percent of the worldwide industry in saving the planet and its environment?
- Melissa’s plans and the classes she is developing
Connect with Melissa Unfred:
Website - https://www.themodernmortician.com/
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/themodernmortician
Instagram - http://www.instagram.com/the_modern_mortician
TikTok - http://tiktok.com/@the_modern_mortician
Connect with Jennifer/The Glam Reaper:
Facebook Page - Muldowney Memorials: https://www.facebook.com/MuldowneyMemorials/
Facebook Page - Rainbow Bridge Memorials: https://www.facebook.com/rainbowbridgememorialsdotcom
Instagram - @muldowneymemorials & @jennifermuldowney
Twitter -
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Transcript
Introduction: Host and Guest
00:00:04
Speaker
Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast.
00:00:08
Speaker
I'm your host Jennifer Muldowney aka the Glam Reaper herself.
00:00:12
Speaker
On today's episode we have one of my favorite guests.
00:00:15
Speaker
Again I probably say this about everybody but I find all my guests super interesting or else I wouldn't have them on the show I guess.
00:00:21
Speaker
But I just think this woman is she's definitely one to follow on all the social media.
00:00:26
Speaker
She's got the cutest dog and I just find her breath of fresh air.
00:00:31
Speaker
So let's get into it with the modern Morticia.
Melissa's Mission: Eco-Friendly Disposition
00:00:46
Speaker
I am Melissa and I'm known online as the modern mortician.
00:00:51
Speaker
I hang out in TikTok and Instagram these days and it's at mod underscore mortician.
00:00:57
Speaker
And I educate people on eco-friendly forms of disposition along with my therapy doctor.
00:01:04
Speaker
And Kermit.
00:01:05
Speaker
Is Kermit with you at all?
00:01:07
Speaker
He is.
00:01:08
Speaker
He's napping on the couch over there.
00:01:09
Speaker
If anybody gets the opportunity, please check Melissa out on Instagram for sure.
00:01:15
Speaker
TikTok absolutely but on Instagram he's just captured perfectly because obviously it's like the photo platform and he's just adorable my own little ragamuffin um unfortunately is at home in Ireland Poppy but I swear to god I when I FaceTime my parents I'm like yeah can you put Poppy on please that'd be great so what you have I just think is amazing and
00:01:38
Speaker
Like for what I do here in Manhattan, like memorial planning and celebrant and stuff, we're going to get into the environmental
Therapy Dogs: Kermit's Story
00:01:44
Speaker
as well.
00:01:44
Speaker
But like, I actually genuinely have thought about it so many times of going down the grief therapy dog
00:01:50
Speaker
I know it obviously is an awful lot of work and I want you to maybe talk to a little bit about that.
00:01:54
Speaker
And I think you've got a course coming up or a class, so maybe you can as well.
00:01:59
Speaker
But I just think it's so, it's kind of so Manhattan-y as well.
00:02:04
Speaker
Like obviously with where I kind of work and the families I work with,
00:02:08
Speaker
Having a dog is, I think it's honestly so important anyway, but definitely the clientele I work with, having a dog will bolster sales, I would imagine.
00:02:19
Speaker
So tell us, how did you come across Kermit?
00:02:22
Speaker
How did that all happen?
00:02:24
Speaker
The fairy tale?
00:02:26
Speaker
I got lucky.
00:02:27
Speaker
I totally got lucky.
00:02:28
Speaker
Five years ago, I knew that I wanted a dog because my cat had passed away after 17 years and I needed a companion.
00:02:39
Speaker
So I was on petfinder.com in the middle of the night and I saw two different colored eyes looking back from a photo and was like, I need to meet that dog.
00:02:48
Speaker
And so the next morning I drove about three hours away and he came home with me and I had always thought it would be a good idea to have a dog in a therapy capacity at a funeral home because long before I did it with him, I remember seeing like a doodle that was out of, you know, the Midwestern states or whatever in one of the funeral magazines and, you know,
00:03:11
Speaker
I lucked out his personality and his temperament made him a perfect candidate for this.
00:03:16
Speaker
So we did all the required training and the rest is kind of history.
00:03:21
Speaker
He is absolutely insta-famous and he's been on, I mean, I think he's, he's literally your partner in crime and any media you do, right?
00:03:30
Speaker
Like he's been on the front page.
00:03:32
Speaker
amazing like he's just and he's gorgeous he's just so beautiful and it's it's interesting because you know Poppy isn't my dog back home like she lives with my parents she's not a therapy dog or anything like that but what's interesting about what you've said the story is we actually she came into the world when we lost our dog of 16 years Roxy who actually was Poppy's grandmother and we
00:03:54
Speaker
sort of we didn't necessarily know all of this at the time we just knew that you know you know when you lose a pet it's kind of sometimes there's a make or break moment where okay i'm either going to get another one or i'm not you know and so we got um poppy and because we were grieving and then my best friend actually lost her cousin who actually that was a part of me doing what i do now in the funeral industry but
00:04:19
Speaker
I'll never forget there's a photo I have of her and she's literally sitting on her chair in the kitchen and Poppy is the size of a teacup at this stage and Poppy is like she's a West Island Terrier so she's not the size of a teacup anymore but like she's still small but like she's sitting on Lindsay's heart and it's just it epitomized Poppy and she I don't know whether it was because she was born into this house that was grieving but
00:04:44
Speaker
But she's always had, like you said, that temperament.
00:04:46
Speaker
And I think it's dogs kind of, if it's nurtured at them from such a young age, I think it's just, you know, it grows with them, right?
00:04:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:55
Speaker
I don't think you can teach a dog to be empathetic.
00:04:58
Speaker
They have to want to.
00:05:00
Speaker
And that's 90% of the formula, right?
00:05:02
Speaker
Do you train other dogs or anything or you just more tell your story?
00:05:07
Speaker
I'm going to teach people this Saturday, basically what the process is with the dog, the different steps you have to go through, different levels of training that you have to do.
00:05:17
Speaker
With Kermit, I started with a lady that was in the neighborhood that I found on the Nextdoor app that used to train dogs for a living and was doing it on the side for extra money.
00:05:28
Speaker
And so from the time I adopted him, he was four months old at five months.
00:05:32
Speaker
We started the basic training, which was like the sit, the recall, which is huge, especially if you're in a cemetery, but like different things like that.
00:05:45
Speaker
Um, the basics and, and moving on from there and yeah, the things we've been able to do in the community on and, and,
00:05:54
Speaker
he's a draw it's like you come for the dog and you stay for the death education or you come for the death and you get a dog as a consolation prize you get some cuddles and so that makes it all that little bit easier yeah and it is i mean that's that's definitely something you've been a massive advocate of like i followed your story not not for massively earlier on to be honest
00:06:16
Speaker
like influencers, which I guess you kind of are, you know, which in the death industry is kind of a bizarre concept, I think, for a lot of people, and especially a lot of my listeners, because my listeners are a lot of Joe Public, I call them, or Joe Bloggs.
00:06:29
Speaker
But I guess because I came from, you know, little old Ireland, that was a kind of a foreign concept.
00:06:35
Speaker
What I was doing was a foreign concept anyway, you know, trying to do the memorial that it's not with a church and not necessarily with a funeral home.
00:06:42
Speaker
It's something a little bit different and the celebrant stuff.
00:06:45
Speaker
That was a bit, what in God's name is she trying to do?
00:06:48
Speaker
Why is she changing things?
00:06:50
Speaker
And it's interesting, you and I just touched base on it there that
00:06:53
Speaker
You know, I just spoke at the New York State convention and my whole service was about change.
00:07:00
Speaker
And I think it's such a big thing that's happening in the industry, has been for the last decade and I think is going to be for decades to come.
00:07:06
Speaker
And you've been a massive proponent of that and a big advocate.
00:07:09
Speaker
How did that story start?
Advocating for Green Burial
00:07:12
Speaker
And I know there and you don't have to touch on too much of it, but I know there was a bit of drama again, not an earlier follower, so don't know a huge amount.
00:07:19
Speaker
And this podcast is a free for all.
00:07:21
Speaker
There's no, you know, but if you want to divulge some of it,
00:07:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:26
Speaker
So early on, right after school, I was working like in smaller town cemeteries and such.
00:07:33
Speaker
And I began to question, you know, why are families having to buy this expensive, you know, outer burial container in the metal?
00:07:40
Speaker
What if they just want to be like in a wooden box in this side of the cemetery where none of that exists?
00:07:45
Speaker
And I kept getting kind of like the ho-hum from the people that I was working with.
00:07:50
Speaker
So I found kind of some pioneers also in it, in death, green death, like
00:07:55
Speaker
on the internet, on Facebook.
00:07:58
Speaker
And it kind of took off from there to where I found out there was a green burial park outside of Austin, Texas.
00:08:04
Speaker
And eventually I moved to Austin to be close to that and got hands-on
00:08:10
Speaker
what it was like doing that.
00:08:11
Speaker
And from there, it just kind of segued into this is my niche now, the green burial, educating on the water cremation and the natural organic reduction.
00:08:20
Speaker
And like, would you be against the, I don't want to say sort of, but the corporate giants or
00:08:27
Speaker
You know, or are you kind of more of the each to their own or, you know, because green burial, it's not for everybody.
00:08:34
Speaker
I know there's a lot we can educate people on because I think a lot of people don't know the options that are available to them.
00:08:41
Speaker
And that's, I think, half the problem.
00:08:43
Speaker
is when they sit in front of a counsellor or a planner they don't they're not presented with everything well like what are your thoughts on the mom and pop versus the corporations can both be doing more to educate or is it up to the social media influencers or or are they in themselves even sharing incorrect information there was a lot of questions in that sorry
00:09:07
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:09:07
Speaker
So kind of circle back.
00:09:09
Speaker
Earlier in my career, I didn't have the best mentors.
00:09:14
Speaker
I had some people behind the scenes that were like egging me on to be very controversial with some of my posts and very vocal about how I felt about embalming.
00:09:22
Speaker
Because it was about eight years ago, I had a hysterectomy because of like endometriosis and things like that.
00:09:29
Speaker
And it changed my sense of smell to it didn't matter what I was wearing in the prep room.
00:09:34
Speaker
I would smell something like and it was more or less formaldehyde that I was picking up on, like the things you don't want to smell.
00:09:42
Speaker
So I just had not so great mentors pushing me to be very vocal online.
00:09:47
Speaker
And over the last, you know, 10 years that I've been doing this almost, I've actually changed my stance, you know,
00:09:55
Speaker
We all grow up and we all change from things that we learn and having the experience with a bunch of different cultures in the last, you know, couple of years of my career have just, it's all about what the family wants.
00:10:07
Speaker
And if it's not my forte to embalm, I'm going to get you the perfect person that can do it.
00:10:12
Speaker
And if you don't want to be embalmed, then I'm your person.
00:10:15
Speaker
But at the time of death is not our, our point of sale, you know, to tell the person about all the different options, um,
00:10:22
Speaker
This is where the funeral homes and the funeral educators online, like myself, have to be out there teaching people about it so they know what they want going into it.
00:10:31
Speaker
Yeah, I've had a hard time getting...
00:10:34
Speaker
Fixing my sour attitude from previously in my social media career.
00:10:39
Speaker
Yeah, but like, you know, to your point, we do grow up and it's not even grow up.
00:10:45
Speaker
It's kind of evolve.
00:10:46
Speaker
I mean, I started what I'm doing 10 years ago.
00:10:49
Speaker
I wrote my first book and I've learned a massive amount.
00:10:53
Speaker
I mean, again, I started in Ireland.
00:10:55
Speaker
Now I'm in New York and I'm at the NFDA and all of those every year.
00:10:59
Speaker
And I'm constantly learning and it's constant new information.
00:11:03
Speaker
So to me, it's kind of so fascinating because you look at us, right?
00:11:07
Speaker
And we're the exposed experts and the educators.
00:11:10
Speaker
And I'm like, we're still learning.
00:11:12
Speaker
So God help the families.
00:11:13
Speaker
They're like bombasted with so much information.
00:11:17
Speaker
What are your thoughts on any of the influencers or Instagrammers or TikTokers?
00:11:24
Speaker
And I'm not as on TikTok anymore.
00:11:26
Speaker
I kind of dipped in during COVID and then I was like, this is overwhelming.
00:11:29
Speaker
But like, what are your thoughts on inaccurate information getting out there?
00:11:34
Speaker
And, you know, some of the influencers may be using it to push their own agendas and stuff like you might have learned yourself or not.
00:11:41
Speaker
I don't know.
00:11:41
Speaker
But, you know, there's there is that obviously out there in every industry.
00:11:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:47
Speaker
So there is a lot of agendas going on out there and I see the new people that are trying to get into this space that have made or making mistakes that I made in the past.
00:11:56
Speaker
And I want to just go into their DMs and be like, Hey, but I haven't gotten the best feedback when I have tried to do that.
00:12:04
Speaker
So I don't, I just, I'm going to let them fall on their face like I did and it'll be okay.
00:12:09
Speaker
Cause you'll learn, but there are some excellent people out there.
00:12:13
Speaker
Like,
00:12:14
Speaker
Hollis Funeral Home, for example.
00:12:16
Speaker
Jasmine the Mortician.
00:12:18
Speaker
No, I'm Pinkhurst Society.
00:12:21
Speaker
We're kind of actually similar to what Eileen is doing, I guess.
00:12:24
Speaker
We're talking to Joe Public, you know.
00:12:26
Speaker
That's it.
00:12:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:27
Speaker
You know, it's you kind of you have to straddle.
00:12:31
Speaker
I love this word.
00:12:32
Speaker
You have to straddle, you know, between industry professionals and not upsetting them and getting the right information out to Joe Public.
00:12:39
Speaker
And, you know, and as you probably know, and I'm sure Eileen knows and anybody who talks to anybody in the public, there's so many crazy questions.
00:12:48
Speaker
Like crazy questions.
00:12:50
Speaker
Like, do you fart after you die?
00:12:52
Speaker
Like I remember one of my best friends asking me that after I'd started.
00:12:55
Speaker
I was just like, I mean, yeah, like I don't want... It was just so funny.
00:13:00
Speaker
But the hilarious thing as well is I'm not an embalmer.
00:13:03
Speaker
I'm not a licensed funeral director.
00:13:05
Speaker
Like I am very much celebrant memorial planner, spokesperson for the industry and for products and innovations in it.
00:13:14
Speaker
Like that's what I love.
00:13:15
Speaker
I love writing about it.
00:13:16
Speaker
Like I love writing...
00:13:17
Speaker
you know journalist articles and stuff like that that's what my bag is I am never going to say I'm an embalmer I'm not a licensed funeral director nor do I have any intention of being and actually I met Monica and I hope I didn't piss her off but it's just one of my thoughts in that she's obviously an incredible embalmer and I was just saying that I wish legislation on the funeral industry would lighten up insofar as
00:13:42
Speaker
I personally would love to have taken the funeral director, you know, license.
00:13:46
Speaker
I would like to become a licensed funeral person.
00:13:50
Speaker
Right.
00:13:50
Speaker
I'm just putting it out there.
00:13:52
Speaker
Right.
00:13:52
Speaker
But I have no interest in embalming.
00:13:54
Speaker
But there's lots of other things I would love to be interested in.
00:13:58
Speaker
And the reason part of the reason why I say that is all my education has been and in different states.
00:14:03
Speaker
And I know you know this.
00:14:04
Speaker
In different states, there's different legislation or like in Ireland, there's no legislation.
00:14:09
Speaker
And so, yeah, could I set up a funeral home as I am now, unlicensed in, I think, Colorado and there's, you know, different places, right?
00:14:18
Speaker
So I think that's crazy because it's supposed to be the United States of America.
00:14:22
Speaker
So that's just for one.
00:14:23
Speaker
But second of all, I wasn't able to help my colleagues during COVID.
00:14:26
Speaker
So my number one job in any of the funeral homes I work in is to bring people together.
00:14:31
Speaker
Now I was able to do my celebrant work, but like they, when they were working 24 seven and inundated, I was not able to help because I wasn't licensed.
00:14:39
Speaker
That to me is a misstep.
00:14:41
Speaker
And I know Monica, I think just immediately went on that.
00:14:44
Speaker
No, embalming is super important.
00:14:46
Speaker
And I was like, no, I'm not saying it's not.
00:14:48
Speaker
I'm just saying you're, you're you, you're experts, but you know, don't forget there's other people, experts and other things.
00:14:54
Speaker
So it was kind of funny.
00:14:56
Speaker
We might get her on the podcast to explain that in more detail.
00:14:59
Speaker
But yeah, what are your thoughts on that actually?
00:15:01
Speaker
There you go.
00:15:02
Speaker
Like on having parts of the curriculum available to people at nauseam, whatever.
00:15:09
Speaker
Online?
00:15:11
Speaker
Like the ability for people to see it online?
00:15:12
Speaker
Well, yes and no.
00:15:13
Speaker
Like a bit like, so say for example, I have a degree in business that I did.
00:15:17
Speaker
And I specialised in marketing.
00:15:18
Speaker
So it was a four-year degree and I specialised my final year in marketing.
00:15:22
Speaker
So, you know, if funerals...
00:15:25
Speaker
is a two-year degree, say, for example, and then for one year of it, you specialize.
00:15:30
Speaker
So yeah, maybe you do learn about the anatomy.
00:15:32
Speaker
You do learn certain basics, but then you can specialize.
00:15:35
Speaker
So like, for example, for me, who wants nothing to do with embalming or the body, you know, I can still do it and be trained and then help people.
00:15:45
Speaker
So in some states, that's how it is.
00:15:47
Speaker
Like,
00:15:48
Speaker
In California, you can have a funeral arranger license.
00:15:51
Speaker
In Texas, you can just have a funeral director, but they're not an associate's degree.
00:15:55
Speaker
They're more or less like a certificate program.
00:15:58
Speaker
So that's, again, where the United States should have a united thing about some of the states around here, you have to have a bachelor's degree.
00:16:06
Speaker
Now, I'm not opposed to that.
00:16:08
Speaker
I think we ought to have a lot more psychology and business in our education beyond an associate's.
00:16:15
Speaker
But, I mean, we still have books that
00:16:18
Speaker
you know, are from the sixties and,
00:16:20
Speaker
and are still teaching the same Caucasian cosmetics to everybody.
00:16:24
Speaker
Oh, God.
00:16:25
Speaker
We still have all the time.
00:16:27
Speaker
Oh, God.
00:16:27
Speaker
Oh, listen.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah, and don't get me started.
00:16:29
Speaker
I mean, talk about an antiquated industry.
00:16:31
Speaker
Like, I really don't know.
00:16:32
Speaker
My parents sometimes are like, Jen, why?
00:16:35
Speaker
Why?
00:16:36
Speaker
You have a degree in business.
00:16:38
Speaker
And of course, I love my mom.
00:16:40
Speaker
She's so cute.
00:16:40
Speaker
She's like, you could be CEO of Google, and you're choosing to do this.
00:16:44
Speaker
I'm like, well, I don't know about CEO of Google.
00:16:46
Speaker
You don't just apply for that job.
00:16:49
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, it's definitely, it's an uphill struggle, this industry.
00:16:52
Speaker
It's just not.
00:16:53
Speaker
And even, that's another thing I think I brought up with the Death Wives, we had a bit of crack about it, is even calling it an industry.
00:17:00
Speaker
You know, amongst the industry, it's, oh, you can't call it an industry.
00:17:03
Speaker
Oh no, it's a community.
00:17:04
Speaker
And oh no, it's this and it's that.
00:17:05
Speaker
I'm like, there's profit and loss and, you know, the supply and demand.
00:17:09
Speaker
Guys, it's an industry.
00:17:12
Speaker
It's a business.
00:17:12
Speaker
And I'm sorry, you can dress it up whatever way you like.
00:17:15
Speaker
But yeah, very frustrating.
00:17:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:18
Speaker
Now tell us on your, because we're going to go back down the green burial route or route as you guys
Eco-Friendly Disposition Methods Explained
00:17:24
Speaker
say.
00:17:24
Speaker
So what are your current methods of disposition that you're educating on?
00:17:31
Speaker
Natural burial where the body is unembalmed, maybe the families participated in sponge bathing or bathing the body, you know, just at the funeral home.
00:17:40
Speaker
And then
00:17:41
Speaker
disposition in a shroud or a cardboard box that the family's decorated.
00:17:45
Speaker
I really push for, you know, families having the option to be more involved if they want.
00:17:51
Speaker
And then from the burial segment, it kind of breaks into like shades of green burials.
00:17:57
Speaker
So, because there's so many cemeteries that can't accommodate for certain things that like a dark green funeral would, you know, consist of like a shroud with no vault.
00:18:07
Speaker
That way we can make everybody happy with what's available.
00:18:10
Speaker
And then of course, water cremation as it's legalized in the states where it comes up for legislation, you know, having people aware that that's an option
00:18:19
Speaker
is huge, especially for those, you know, that can't financially afford a burial because of the plot space and whatnot.
00:18:26
Speaker
And then boom, all of a sudden we got natural organic reduction legalized.
00:18:31
Speaker
And I moved to Washington from Texas because all the fighting is done.
00:18:35
Speaker
The stuff's already legalized here.
00:18:37
Speaker
You're like, who's that?
00:18:38
Speaker
I'm five, guys.
00:18:39
Speaker
So I'm here to help.
00:18:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:42
Speaker
Myself and Kermit.
00:18:44
Speaker
So you've gone from, so you're originally from Austin in Texas.
00:18:49
Speaker
Or no, you moved to Austin in Texas.
00:18:50
Speaker
That was your first gig.
00:18:52
Speaker
And now you're in Washington.
00:18:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:54
Speaker
From Lovett.
00:18:55
Speaker
Holy God.
00:18:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:56
Speaker
And so what is your, going to be a bit biased here now, what's your preferred water, the composting, or the natural burial?
00:19:05
Speaker
Really, I prefer the natural burial.
00:19:08
Speaker
I haven't found the place that I want to be buried at yet, but I just want to be wrapped up in a shroud with a lot of flower petals so I'm not touching the dirt.
00:19:17
Speaker
Oh,
00:19:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:21
Speaker
You know what?
00:19:21
Speaker
It's so funny how, and I'm sure you're the same.
00:19:25
Speaker
I talked to two people.
00:19:26
Speaker
One person is exactly that.
00:19:29
Speaker
Like my mum, you know, back when we did her pre-plan, you know, mum, do you want to be buried or cremated?
00:19:34
Speaker
Because that was kind of really the options.
00:19:36
Speaker
And she said, oh, cremated, cremated.
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah, definitely cremated.
00:19:38
Speaker
Because, you know, I don't want to be buried with the worms.
00:19:40
Speaker
You know, I don't want them eating me.
00:19:42
Speaker
And, you know, at least I'll be warm in the cremation.
00:19:45
Speaker
I'm like, what?
00:19:46
Speaker
What is going on?
00:19:48
Speaker
But then there's other people who are like, that's absolute nonsense.
00:19:51
Speaker
I don't care what happens to me.
00:19:52
Speaker
And that's my dad.
00:19:53
Speaker
It's probably why I am the way I am, because I have both.
00:19:57
Speaker
And I can understand both.
00:19:58
Speaker
Both of them are very, you know, valid perspectives.
00:20:01
Speaker
So it's interesting.
00:20:03
Speaker
Now tell me about the composting, because I would love to get Katrina on, but I think she's like super busy or I don't know what's going on.
00:20:09
Speaker
Here's the catch.
00:20:10
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:11
Speaker
So there's not just one place.
00:20:14
Speaker
I had heard there was two.
00:20:16
Speaker
There's three.
00:20:18
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:20:20
Speaker
So return home.
00:20:22
Speaker
They're all in Washington.
00:20:24
Speaker
You got one in South Washington and then recompose and return home or within miles of each other outside of Seattle.
00:20:32
Speaker
So if you want to have a really good interview, reach out to Return Home, the funeral director, Bree, which is great.
00:20:39
Speaker
But I have been fortunate enough to do two laying-ins there, like assisted with two of them at her facility.
00:20:47
Speaker
And then the ones in South Washington at Herland Forest, I've assisted with two laying-ins there.
00:20:53
Speaker
Now, talk to me, this laying-in.
00:20:56
Speaker
Can you give me like a quick synopsis of exactly what happens?
00:21:00
Speaker
Say I was interested in this composting because you're the first person we've had on who has a bit of an insider knowledge.
00:21:08
Speaker
So feed us with this knowledge.
00:21:09
Speaker
Like what would happen to me once I pop my clogs and I'm in your care and we're going, we're going for composting.
00:21:17
Speaker
So it's like a natural burial without the bugs and without taking up space.
00:21:23
Speaker
So I don't know how recomposed does it.
00:21:27
Speaker
I haven't laid eyes personally on what's going on over there.
00:21:30
Speaker
But at the other two facilities, they have what looks like a giant freezer box, but it's not as a shape that way.
00:21:36
Speaker
And natural material like alfalfa, sawdust, you know, mulch basically is placed into the vessel about half full.
00:21:45
Speaker
And then the body is lowered in with a lowering device or with people, you know, out at Herland Forest.
00:21:51
Speaker
They don't have a lot of electronics out there.
00:21:53
Speaker
So we're manhandling it.
00:21:56
Speaker
And the body gets leaned in.
00:21:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:59
Speaker
And if the family wants to be involved and see the body, since we can't have clothing involved, Return Home utilizes like a paper doll kind of outfit that's biodegradable that breaks down within the 30 slash 60 days it takes.
00:22:11
Speaker
So they can like put that around you and flowers all around and your family can come and see you, or they'll just put the mulch layer on top of you and put you in your slot.
00:22:20
Speaker
And they have about 72 spots at return home versus I think 18 over at recompose, but recompose is opening a second facility in Seattle pretty soon.
00:22:32
Speaker
And then out at Herland forest, his are all outside.
00:22:37
Speaker
The first two places are indoors inside like warehouses.
00:22:41
Speaker
And then the other facility is outside.
00:22:44
Speaker
So they look like giant, you know how they keep the cords for the telephone wires.
00:22:49
Speaker
They look like those big round spools.
00:22:52
Speaker
It looks like that with the body container section in the middle so it can roll.
00:22:57
Speaker
His process takes 90 to 120 days since it's outside and you have to deal with temperatures that are outdoors.
00:23:03
Speaker
The other facilities recompose is at 30 days before they return soil material to the family and return home is at 60 days.
00:23:11
Speaker
Right.
00:23:12
Speaker
So they're all obviously utilizing slightly different methods or different temperatures maybe or something.
00:23:20
Speaker
And it's pure soil that comes back.
00:23:22
Speaker
Right.
00:23:24
Speaker
Yeah, so it's really cool.
00:23:26
Speaker
There's pictures of it on my Instagram.
00:23:29
Speaker
It doesn't smell weird.
00:23:31
Speaker
It just looks moist.
00:23:33
Speaker
I mean, like dark, like literally.
00:23:36
Speaker
Have you held it up against sort of garden soil and gone, what is the difference?
00:23:40
Speaker
Wow.
00:23:41
Speaker
It's like mulch.
00:23:42
Speaker
If you want to know, it's like processed mulch.
00:23:45
Speaker
It's not like the thick mulch.
00:23:46
Speaker
It's like the thin mulch.
00:23:47
Speaker
Yeah, because it's not really soil chemically.
00:23:50
Speaker
Right.
00:23:51
Speaker
it's uh yeah yeah compost yeah thank god and god that's fascinating i really i'm dying to see that in person i have to say not dying actually that's i just did an industry faux pas there god i've got that i wonder what it's like in terms of like growing plants like does it grow them stronger you know weaker has there been any tests so
00:24:18
Speaker
There have been some tests done and Brie can go over that with you with Return Home.
00:24:23
Speaker
But personally, I put it on some of my potted plants and they like started going a lot faster.
00:24:29
Speaker
It's meant to go on the top layer.
00:24:31
Speaker
So families, this process yields about an entire pickup bed full, pickup truck bed full of material.
00:24:39
Speaker
So a lot of families can opt for different sizes, like a hat box size or a one inch, I mean, one foot by one foot cube, or some have the whole thing, you know, they can pick up the whole thing.
00:24:50
Speaker
But in places where the families can't take it all, it's being re-dispersed into new, into land, revitalizing land that's, you know, been depleted.
00:25:00
Speaker
Right.
00:25:01
Speaker
It's really cool depending on which facility that you utilize where your, your, your, this may end up.
00:25:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:09
Speaker
I mean, it's, it's so good that like we, we are, we can put some good back into, you know, the planet.
00:25:15
Speaker
I mean, God almighty.
00:25:17
Speaker
Now what happens to like carcinogens and like any drug use during your life?
00:25:22
Speaker
Like, does that just, how does that just evaporate or like what, how does that work?
00:25:29
Speaker
You can't do Ebola, a Crutchfield, Jacobs, or radiation with this method, but water cremation you can.
00:25:36
Speaker
That's where you can reduce the radiation seeds by half-life pretty quickly by the time you get to the end of the process.
00:25:42
Speaker
So again, it's not for everybody, kind of like natural burial would be for everybody.
00:25:48
Speaker
But as far as, you know, just regular drugs that are in your system from end of life, all of that gets kind of pretty much gobbled up and inert by the microbiomes and stuff that are in your body.
00:26:00
Speaker
It's insane.
00:26:01
Speaker
It really is fascinating.
00:26:02
Speaker
I mean, like, you know, this is what I would like to, this is the part of the funeral course I'm talking about I'd be interested in, you know, like this part.
00:26:11
Speaker
And that is, it is about the body, but it's just, I'm just not into the slicing of heads and limbs and, you know, organs.
00:26:18
Speaker
Like I read, and listen, I'm, you know, work in this business and stuff.
00:26:23
Speaker
So, you know, I'm used to seeing what I see and all that.
00:26:26
Speaker
But like, I did read, I try and read some business books.
00:26:31
Speaker
I do read some fiction then just to keep my, you know, brain out of, but like I do read business and then I do read industry books.
00:26:37
Speaker
And I finally got to read, what's her name's smoke through the eyes or something like that, whatever it's called.
00:26:44
Speaker
She's got an Irish last name, but it's not really Irish last name.
00:26:47
Speaker
I'm like,
00:26:47
Speaker
That's not the way you say it.
00:26:49
Speaker
But anyway, I read that and I was like, there were parts of it.
00:26:52
Speaker
I was just like, oh God, I don't need to.
00:26:56
Speaker
Yeah, but anyway.
00:26:58
Speaker
It gets worse.
00:26:59
Speaker
Books get worse.
00:27:00
Speaker
Because I've watched...
00:27:02
Speaker
yeah a lot of yeah well I've watched some of her videos and listen you know I'm all for all you know any education and stuff but there's just there's some people out there who I love and there's some people who I'm just like yeah I can't I can't cope I'm I'm very unfortunately say it as an is type of person so like you can kind of always tell whether I'm into somebody or I'm not I'm just like
00:27:29
Speaker
But back to so right.
00:27:31
Speaker
So water cremation and composting.
00:27:33
Speaker
I mean, those are two huge developments for the industry in the last decade.
00:27:37
Speaker
Now, one of the things that irritates me, if I may be so frank, is that like so now composting does three types of and the alkaline hydrolysis.
00:27:47
Speaker
There's so many different varieties of it and variations of it.
00:27:51
Speaker
Yeah, but is there, though?
00:27:52
Speaker
Because like, isn't there's resumation, biochremation, water cremation, alkaline, hydrolysis, like, and I know that there's certain ones taking brands.
00:27:59
Speaker
I just, one of my things, and it's probably my marketing background, is I feel like that's possibly where consumers get a bit scared and a bit like, oh, God, have I got the right one?
00:28:10
Speaker
is this all the same thing?
00:28:11
Speaker
Is that the same as that?
00:28:13
Speaker
And now that you've told me about three different composting, part of me is like, I wonder, will people get that fear about that too?
00:28:18
Speaker
You know, it's a valid, it's like when it's going to happen.
00:28:23
Speaker
So,
00:28:24
Speaker
They've tripped and fallen already in the marketing of what I prefer to call water cremation.
00:28:30
Speaker
It's palatable for the general public.
00:28:32
Speaker
They understand that it's cremation by water, which by definition is what the alkaline hydrolysis is for the funeral law.
00:28:39
Speaker
You know, in each state it's legalized.
00:28:41
Speaker
So reduction of the body by water.
00:28:44
Speaker
And there's two different brand names that are out there.
00:28:48
Speaker
The Aquamation machine is by Bioresponse Solution.
00:28:51
Speaker
They're American based.
00:28:52
Speaker
And then you've got one from...
00:28:54
Speaker
It's the UK that is Resumation.
00:28:57
Speaker
And it's, yeah, Resumation Machine.
00:29:00
Speaker
And they're two completely different machines.
00:29:02
Speaker
Granted, they end result, but they operate differently.
00:29:08
Speaker
They're just different.
00:29:10
Speaker
And their cost is different too.
00:29:11
Speaker
And one of them, you know, BioResponse Solution with Aquamation is in the pet market.
00:29:16
Speaker
So their name, their terminology, Aquamation is starting to be the more recognized one.
00:29:21
Speaker
because all these pet places are naming their business resting pet aquamation.
00:29:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:29
Speaker
People are like, what is aquamation?
00:29:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:32
Speaker
And it's like, I think, you know, we all should have come together at the beginning of this, you know, like the funeral directors of the past failed to do the flame cremation and have a discussion about how to market this, because I will have to argue with old school funeral directors that have just barely grasped onto the term aquamation.
00:29:50
Speaker
And they're using a completely different machine.
00:29:52
Speaker
And I'm like, that's like, you know, calling Levi jeans, what, or something.
00:29:58
Speaker
Oh, your brain's definitely...
00:30:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:06
Speaker
No.
00:30:06
Speaker
Nodes versus beats, you know, totally different.
00:30:09
Speaker
Totally different.
00:30:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:10
Speaker
So, yeah, it's frustrating to watch because I'm just like, you know, these are huge changes to the industry and they
00:30:21
Speaker
have the potential to change people's worlds, people's perception, everything, like really and truly.
00:30:28
Speaker
And it is such an antiquated industry.
00:30:30
Speaker
And, you know, it's just frustrating that we can't all come together and go, here's how the future should look, you know?
00:30:39
Speaker
And listen, like I was a part of a company back in Ireland called Eco Legacy, and we'd come up with Ecolation.
Future of Cremation: A Greener Industry
00:30:47
Speaker
I don't know if you'd ever heard of them.
00:30:49
Speaker
No, no, well you wouldn't have unfortunately because yeah, about seven years ago they, we imploded because of business, issues in business and so it was just unfortunate and actually it was really well yeah so you'll completely like I was, I actually I'm not even joking I was mourning that for a good three years
00:31:13
Speaker
because it broke my heart because we had such an incredible technology that was literally going to change the industry and it was pure corporate greed that flipped it on its head i was broken hearted over it i really was
00:31:30
Speaker
and yeah that's yeah that's yeah that's about seven years ago yeah it sounds like we could we'll hang out for drinks um sometime soon melissa and hash through it all yeah but now what's what do you think so like burial and cremation are not going to go away anytime soon like what do you think's the future of like burial potentially more green but again we're running out of space i mean asia is 99.9 cremation rate
00:31:55
Speaker
So cremation seems to be the future.
00:31:57
Speaker
Now, whether that's water or composting, although composting, it sounds like they may have to, it doesn't sound like it's going to be able to sort of get as big as fast as we may be needed in the world.
00:32:09
Speaker
I don't know.
00:32:09
Speaker
Again, I'm not on the inside.
00:32:11
Speaker
Like, what do you think is the future of cremation?
00:32:13
Speaker
Is there, you know, are current units changing them?
00:32:19
Speaker
I thankfully have my finger on the pulse of where this is going, although I feel like I'm 10 years in the future from some people.
00:32:26
Speaker
But I've been pretty spot on so far.
00:32:30
Speaker
I really think...
00:32:31
Speaker
If the industry will collectively do better at educating the public, water cremation could very well be a very good thing to happen.
00:32:40
Speaker
Otherwise, it's going to continue to move towards flame cremation because of the cost factor and the ability for so many providers to do direct services for as cheap as $600.
00:32:52
Speaker
There's always going to be families that can't do the big or don't want to.
00:32:58
Speaker
And so I see that.
00:33:01
Speaker
especially since we're going into like some dystopian future, who knows?
00:33:05
Speaker
I know, well.
00:33:06
Speaker
I think climate change will be around for a while.
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:09
Speaker
But I think we're going to see even less and less of the embalming as these boomers go through.
00:33:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:14
Speaker
I think it'll be even less and less and less.
00:33:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:17
Speaker
And it's interesting that you say that because I,
00:33:20
Speaker
And again, you know, if I'm talking to a pro embalmer on my podcast, I've no issue with embalming.
00:33:26
Speaker
I just haven't into it myself.
00:33:28
Speaker
It's the one thing I have said.
00:33:30
Speaker
I just am not personally into it.
00:33:32
Speaker
I don't want to be poked and prodded, especially by people that I am now working with.
00:33:36
Speaker
I'm like, you don't get to touch this when I have no say.
00:33:39
Speaker
No, no, no, no, no.
00:33:41
Speaker
And that's a real, you know, that's a real thing.
00:33:43
Speaker
I'm like,
00:33:44
Speaker
No, you don't get to, you know, it's definitely not something I'm interested in.
00:33:50
Speaker
And listen, they do an amazing job.
00:33:52
Speaker
And I know some incredible ones back home in Ireland as well as here.
00:33:55
Speaker
Glyn Tallon being one of the most famous ones coming out of Ireland.
00:33:58
Speaker
I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but he often does like the NFDA and things like that.
00:34:03
Speaker
And then obviously Monica, apparently incredible as well.
00:34:05
Speaker
And so there are incredible artists, I would call them out there at the BAM.
00:34:10
Speaker
It's just not for me.
00:34:11
Speaker
And I know it's not for a lot of people.
00:34:14
Speaker
And for me and what I do, I try and meet people where they're at and figure out what it is that they want.
00:34:20
Speaker
So, you know, as you said, like,
00:34:23
Speaker
cremation I definitely think it's going to get bigger and bigger
00:34:28
Speaker
portion wise of people choosing it whether it's water cremation or flame cremation you know flame with the pollutants and stuff like that climate change is on the top of everybody's lips at the moment so you know i i think that needs to need that that part of it needs a radical change in and of itself i don't think having these chimneys just having you know filtering it i don't think is is it's not working anymore i mean i know
00:34:59
Speaker
a lot of the groups out there that are saying you know formaldehyde and there's there's there's a lot of things in the industry that climate change and poisonous gases and liquids wise we need to change and evolve and i think we have a lot to answer for as an industry and i think it's too easy for the top dogs to kind of say oh well we're only a tiny percent compared to the car industry or the
00:35:23
Speaker
Yeah, but you know what?
00:35:23
Speaker
Our tiny percent could save the world.
00:35:25
Speaker
So, you know, let's get off our fat cash stools.
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah, there's so much we could do.
00:35:31
Speaker
Like so many funeral homes still use fax machines and print everything out.
00:35:35
Speaker
Hello, we're in the digital age.
00:35:40
Speaker
It's a thing.
00:35:45
Speaker
I can't even cope with that because that is facts.
00:35:48
Speaker
Yeah, baby steps.
00:35:50
Speaker
So many little things that they could do.
00:35:52
Speaker
I've heard the argument when I'm like,
00:35:55
Speaker
You know, you can choose a greener option, like with this natural organic production, somebody's like, well, you have to truck in all the materials.
00:36:03
Speaker
Yeah, for two of the facilities.
00:36:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:05
Speaker
But you're trucking metal and what else with the other one?
00:36:08
Speaker
Let's nitpick it to pieces.
00:36:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:10
Speaker
I mean, either way, give people the option to decide for themselves.
00:36:14
Speaker
I think when water cremation first came out, I heard too many funeral directors going, it's like putting grandma in a crog pot.
00:36:21
Speaker
And you know what?
00:36:22
Speaker
You just started a problem because now that's what people are going to think about anytime they hear you talking about it.
00:36:27
Speaker
We as professionals owe it to the community and to people that we talk to, to be knowledgeable on those things, whether we like it or not.
00:36:35
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:36:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:36
Speaker
And it is unfortunate.
00:36:38
Speaker
I mean, I, from what I have seen of water cremation,
00:36:41
Speaker
it's you know the end result is gorgeous and I know there is some and that provide you with the liquid back as well as the sort of the ash like consistency I'm hoping they will get to that point right now the water can either go into the municipal sewer system which is actually considered an excellent excellent thing if you ever want to interview somebody in that space they can explain how
00:37:05
Speaker
chemically and bio, you know, it's so good and it's great for sewer systems, but in some places it's picked up and put on sod or in trees, you know, around trees and things like that where they're replenishing land.
00:37:18
Speaker
They don't have this idea yet, but I think it should be an option where what if the family wants like, okay, they obviously can't take these big giant barrel vats that are as big as a person, you know, fold it up.
00:37:29
Speaker
Like they can't do that full of the effluent, the liquid that's left.
00:37:33
Speaker
Now all this liquid is really good.
00:37:34
Speaker
It's like water, peptides, amino acids, salts, fats.
00:37:38
Speaker
So it's great for gardening.
00:37:40
Speaker
Give them a growler of grandma.
00:37:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:37:45
Speaker
Let him take home a crawler to, you know, garden with.
00:37:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:49
Speaker
Since you can't do the big thing, give him the option for the little thing.
00:37:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:52
Speaker
So many places where we're all tripping on our feet and not doing the best we could.
00:37:56
Speaker
Well, and you know what, like you've absolutely hit the nail on the head in the last five minutes of what you said, because even I know when I started, when I was working with Eco Legacy, you know, we had that, oh my God, wait, there's an option of flushing grandma down the toilet.
00:38:09
Speaker
Wait, what?
00:38:10
Speaker
and you know like that that it did it became sort of the industry like wait what what's this what's going on here now you know and all of us have seen the horror movies where how do you get rid of the dead body you stick in the bath with i don't even know the liquid but so that's all that we're all imagining is like no like that's not right so you're right it's just it's totally about education and unfortunately as well there's there's those whispers right so they do one penis of damage then there's what we can
00:38:38
Speaker
we take what somebody's saying and we attribute it, which is just absolute human nature, we attribute it to what we know.
00:38:44
Speaker
So we know that from the movies of a body going in and dissolving and we're like, that's not good.
00:38:50
Speaker
So we automatically have a, that's not good.
00:38:52
Speaker
And then we hear this flushing grandma down to it and we're like, that's not good.
00:38:55
Speaker
And then you've got and I know this has happened in the UK where they've gotten units in and they can't actually use them because the local government or the council are saying that, no, you're poisoning the systems.
00:39:08
Speaker
So then you've got that bad news rep.
00:39:10
Speaker
And so then it just creates.
00:39:11
Speaker
And then, of course, that spreads worldwide.
00:39:13
Speaker
And so then you're going to have more issues in the US with getting, you know, because they're going to listen to their UK blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:39:19
Speaker
It spreads like wildfire.
00:39:22
Speaker
It's a very, I'm already exhausted from just saying that, but it is, that's what it is.
00:39:27
Speaker
It's an exhausting, it feels like it's constantly an uphill battle.
00:39:31
Speaker
And it's kind of back to your original point of if we would all just come together.
00:39:35
Speaker
And it's very interesting because I have said that, I think it was three years ago at the NFDA, I'd met a couple of like-minded people and I was like, guys,
00:39:44
Speaker
Like we just all need to come together and form some sort of a community and figure this out because there's so many of us with, we might not all agree on exactly the same things, but we have an ethos that we all agree on.
00:39:55
Speaker
And we're mostly younger.
00:39:57
Speaker
We're a lot female, but you know, we just, we have wider spans of thought processes is what I will very diplomatically say.
00:40:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:09
Speaker
So tell me before we wind up with you, as much as I would love to yap to you all night, I try and keep these podcasts within 20 minutes.
00:40:17
Speaker
We're already stretching that a hell of a lot.
00:40:20
Speaker
Is there anything you've got coming up?
00:40:22
Speaker
So you're going to be talking to some people about how you and Kermit came to be.
00:40:27
Speaker
Is there anything else you've got going on?
00:40:28
Speaker
You're starting a new job.
00:40:29
Speaker
Can you tell us what that is?
00:40:30
Speaker
Now, by the time this is out, you'll already be there.
00:40:33
Speaker
So...
00:40:34
Speaker
I can't talk about it that much because it's one of those kind of positions where they don't want any kind of outside progressive stuff going on.
00:40:45
Speaker
And I need insurance, so I have to do whatever you want me to do.
00:40:50
Speaker
Got you.
00:40:51
Speaker
Well, my Instagram is going to keep focusing on the little classes that I'm developing to teach people to do stuff.
00:40:58
Speaker
And then, of course, I've got tons of archive photos that I can continue to educate people in the greener forms of death care.
00:41:04
Speaker
even though I'm doing lots of different kinds of death care on the back.
00:41:10
Speaker
Good.
00:41:10
Speaker
Well, listen, that's what you've got to do.
00:41:13
Speaker
And I think that's what us ladies that are into educating and into spreading the word.
00:41:19
Speaker
I think that's what we have to do.
00:41:20
Speaker
It's not...
00:41:23
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:41:24
Speaker
Talk about the hustle, the side hustle.
00:41:26
Speaker
But it's not, you know, it is a very male, older male dominated industry.
00:41:30
Speaker
And so, you know, we've got to do what we've got to do.
00:41:33
Speaker
So more power to you, girlfriend.
00:41:35
Speaker
And if I can ever be of any assistance, please reach out.
00:41:38
Speaker
But before we wind up, tell us again what your handles are and how people can
Conclusion: Connect with Melissa
00:41:43
Speaker
connect with you.
00:41:43
Speaker
We'll leave all the links.
00:41:45
Speaker
So this is going to be on YouTube and audio, but we'll leave all the links.
00:41:48
Speaker
So.
00:41:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:50
Speaker
I have a YouTube channel that I do nothing with, but YouTube and Facebook is The Modern Mortician.
00:41:55
Speaker
And then on Instagram and TikTok, it's at mod underscore mortician.
00:42:01
Speaker
Hooray.
00:42:02
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for joining us and good luck in your job.
00:42:07
Speaker
And we will maybe have another update, you know, in another couple of months.
00:42:11
Speaker
Who knows what's happening?
00:42:20
Speaker
The Glam Reaper meets The Modern Mortician.
00:42:23
Speaker
What did you think?
00:42:24
Speaker
Send your comments, questions, any queries or concerns to glamreaperpodcast at gmail.com and we look forward to talking to you.