Transcript
Speaker: Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast.
Speaker: I'm your host Jennifer Muldowney aka the Glam Reaper herself.
Speaker: On today's episode we have one of my favorite guests.
Speaker: Again I probably say this about everybody but I find all my guests super interesting or else I wouldn't have them on the show I guess.
Speaker: But I just think this woman is she's definitely one to follow on all the social media.
Speaker: She's got the cutest dog and I just find her breath of fresh air.
Speaker: So let's get into it with the modern Morticia.
Speaker: I am Melissa and I'm known online as the modern mortician.
Speaker: I hang out in TikTok and Instagram these days and it's at mod underscore mortician.
Speaker: And I educate people on eco-friendly forms of disposition along with my therapy doctor.
Speaker: And Kermit.
Speaker: Is Kermit with you at all?
Speaker: He is.
Speaker: He's napping on the couch over there.
Speaker: If anybody gets the opportunity, please check Melissa out on Instagram for sure.
Speaker: TikTok absolutely but on Instagram he's just captured perfectly because obviously it's like the photo platform and he's just adorable my own little ragamuffin um unfortunately is at home in Ireland Poppy but I swear to god I when I FaceTime my parents I'm like yeah can you put Poppy on please that'd be great so what you have I just think is amazing and
Speaker: Like for what I do here in Manhattan, like memorial planning and celebrant and stuff, we're going to get into the environmental as well.
Speaker: But like, I actually genuinely have thought about it so many times of going down the grief therapy dog
Speaker: I know it obviously is an awful lot of work and I want you to maybe talk to a little bit about that.
Speaker: And I think you've got a course coming up or a class, so maybe you can as well.
Speaker: But I just think it's so, it's kind of so Manhattan-y as well.
Speaker: Like obviously with where I kind of work and the families I work with,
Speaker: Having a dog is, I think it's honestly so important anyway, but definitely the clientele I work with, having a dog will bolster sales, I would imagine.
Speaker: So tell us, how did you come across Kermit?
Speaker: How did that all happen?
Speaker: The fairy tale?
Speaker: I got lucky.
Speaker: I totally got lucky.
Speaker: Five years ago, I knew that I wanted a dog because my cat had passed away after 17 years and I needed a companion.
Speaker: So I was on petfinder.com in the middle of the night and I saw two different colored eyes looking back from a photo and was like, I need to meet that dog.
Speaker: And so the next morning I drove about three hours away and he came home with me and I had always thought it would be a good idea to have a dog in a therapy capacity at a funeral home because long before I did it with him, I remember seeing like a doodle that was out of, you know, the Midwestern states or whatever in one of the funeral magazines and, you know,
Speaker: I lucked out his personality and his temperament made him a perfect candidate for this.
Speaker: So we did all the required training and the rest is kind of history.
Speaker: He is absolutely insta-famous and he's been on, I mean, I think he's, he's literally your partner in crime and any media you do, right?
Speaker: Like he's been on the front page.
Speaker: amazing like he's just and he's gorgeous he's just so beautiful and it's it's interesting because you know Poppy isn't my dog back home like she lives with my parents she's not a therapy dog or anything like that but what's interesting about what you've said the story is we actually she came into the world when we lost our dog of 16 years Roxy who actually was Poppy's grandmother and we
Speaker: sort of we didn't necessarily know all of this at the time we just knew that you know you know when you lose a pet it's kind of sometimes there's a make or break moment where okay i'm either going to get another one or i'm not you know and so we got um poppy and because we were grieving and then my best friend actually lost her cousin who actually that was a part of me doing what i do now in the funeral industry but
Speaker: I'll never forget there's a photo I have of her and she's literally sitting on her chair in the kitchen and Poppy is the size of a teacup at this stage and Poppy is like she's a West Island Terrier so she's not the size of a teacup anymore but like she's still small but like she's sitting on Lindsay's heart and it's just it epitomized Poppy and she I don't know whether it was because she was born into this house that was grieving but
Speaker: But she's always had, like you said, that temperament.
Speaker: And I think it's dogs kind of, if it's nurtured at them from such a young age, I think it's just, you know, it grows with them, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I don't think you can teach a dog to be empathetic.
Speaker: They have to want to.
Speaker: And that's 90% of the formula, right?
Speaker: Do you train other dogs or anything or you just more tell your story?
Speaker: I'm going to teach people this Saturday, basically what the process is with the dog, the different steps you have to go through, different levels of training that you have to do.
Speaker: With Kermit, I started with a lady that was in the neighborhood that I found on the Nextdoor app that used to train dogs for a living and was doing it on the side for extra money.
Speaker: And so from the time I adopted him, he was four months old at five months.
Speaker: We started the basic training, which was like the sit, the recall, which is huge, especially if you're in a cemetery, but like different things like that.
Speaker: Um, the basics and, and moving on from there and yeah, the things we've been able to do in the community on and, and,
Speaker: he's a draw it's like you come for the dog and you stay for the death education or you come for the death and you get a dog as a consolation prize you get some cuddles and so that makes it all that little bit easier yeah and it is i mean that's that's definitely something you've been a massive advocate of like i followed your story not not for massively earlier on to be honest
Speaker: like influencers, which I guess you kind of are, you know, which in the death industry is kind of a bizarre concept, I think, for a lot of people, and especially a lot of my listeners, because my listeners are a lot of Joe Public, I call them, or Joe Bloggs.
Speaker: But I guess because I came from, you know, little old Ireland, that was a kind of a foreign concept.
Speaker: What I was doing was a foreign concept anyway, you know, trying to do the memorial that it's not with a church and not necessarily with a funeral home.
Speaker: It's something a little bit different and the celebrant stuff.
Speaker: That was a bit, what in God's name is she trying to do?
Speaker: Why is she changing things?
Speaker: And it's interesting, you and I just touched base on it there that
Speaker: You know, I just spoke at the New York State convention and my whole service was about change.
Speaker: And I think it's such a big thing that's happening in the industry, has been for the last decade and I think is going to be for decades to come.
Speaker: And you've been a massive proponent of that and a big advocate.
Speaker: How did that story start?
Speaker: And I know there and you don't have to touch on too much of it, but I know there was a bit of drama again, not an earlier follower, so don't know a huge amount.
Speaker: And this podcast is a free for all.
Speaker: There's no, you know, but if you want to divulge some of it,
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So early on, right after school, I was working like in smaller town cemeteries and such.
Speaker: And I began to question, you know, why are families having to buy this expensive, you know, outer burial container in the metal?
Speaker: What if they just want to be like in a wooden box in this side of the cemetery where none of that exists?
Speaker: And I kept getting kind of like the ho-hum from the people that I was working with.
Speaker: So I found kind of some pioneers also in it, in death, green death, like
Speaker: on the internet, on Facebook.
Speaker: And it kind of took off from there to where I found out there was a green burial park outside of Austin, Texas.
Speaker: And eventually I moved to Austin to be close to that and got hands-on
Speaker: what it was like doing that.
Speaker: And from there, it just kind of segued into this is my niche now, the green burial, educating on the water cremation and the natural organic reduction.
Speaker: And like, would you be against the, I don't want to say sort of, but the corporate giants or
Speaker: You know, or are you kind of more of the each to their own or, you know, because green burial, it's not for everybody.
Speaker: I know there's a lot we can educate people on because I think a lot of people don't know the options that are available to them.
Speaker: And that's, I think, half the problem.
Speaker: is when they sit in front of a counsellor or a planner they don't they're not presented with everything well like what are your thoughts on the mom and pop versus the corporations can both be doing more to educate or is it up to the social media influencers or or are they in themselves even sharing incorrect information there was a lot of questions in that sorry
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: So kind of circle back.
Speaker: Earlier in my career, I didn't have the best mentors.
Speaker: I had some people behind the scenes that were like egging me on to be very controversial with some of my posts and very vocal about how I felt about embalming.
Speaker: Because it was about eight years ago, I had a hysterectomy because of like endometriosis and things like that.
Speaker: And it changed my sense of smell to it didn't matter what I was wearing in the prep room.
Speaker: I would smell something like and it was more or less formaldehyde that I was picking up on, like the things you don't want to smell.
Speaker: So I just had not so great mentors pushing me to be very vocal online.
Speaker: And over the last, you know, 10 years that I've been doing this almost, I've actually changed my stance, you know,
Speaker: We all grow up and we all change from things that we learn and having the experience with a bunch of different cultures in the last, you know, couple of years of my career have just, it's all about what the family wants.
Speaker: And if it's not my forte to embalm, I'm going to get you the perfect person that can do it.
Speaker: And if you don't want to be embalmed, then I'm your person.
Speaker: But at the time of death is not our, our point of sale, you know, to tell the person about all the different options, um,
Speaker: This is where the funeral homes and the funeral educators online, like myself, have to be out there teaching people about it so they know what they want going into it.
Speaker: Yeah, I've had a hard time getting...
Speaker: Fixing my sour attitude from previously in my social media career.
Speaker: Yeah, but like, you know, to your point, we do grow up and it's not even grow up.
Speaker: It's kind of evolve.
Speaker: I mean, I started what I'm doing 10 years ago.
Speaker: I wrote my first book and I've learned a massive amount.
Speaker: I mean, again, I started in Ireland.
Speaker: Now I'm in New York and I'm at the NFDA and all of those every year.
Speaker: And I'm constantly learning and it's constant new information.
Speaker: So to me, it's kind of so fascinating because you look at us, right?
Speaker: And we're the exposed experts and the educators.
Speaker: And I'm like, we're still learning.
Speaker: So God help the families.
Speaker: They're like bombasted with so much information.
Speaker: What are your thoughts on any of the influencers or Instagrammers or TikTokers?
Speaker: And I'm not as on TikTok anymore.
Speaker: I kind of dipped in during COVID and then I was like, this is overwhelming.
Speaker: But like, what are your thoughts on inaccurate information getting out there?
Speaker: And, you know, some of the influencers may be using it to push their own agendas and stuff like you might have learned yourself or not.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: But, you know, there's there is that obviously out there in every industry.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So there is a lot of agendas going on out there and I see the new people that are trying to get into this space that have made or making mistakes that I made in the past.
Speaker: And I want to just go into their DMs and be like, Hey, but I haven't gotten the best feedback when I have tried to do that.
Speaker: So I don't, I just, I'm going to let them fall on their face like I did and it'll be okay.
Speaker: Cause you'll learn, but there are some excellent people out there.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: Hollis Funeral Home, for example.
Speaker: Jasmine the Mortician.
Speaker: No, I'm Pinkhurst Society.
Speaker: We're kind of actually similar to what Eileen is doing, I guess.
Speaker: We're talking to Joe Public, you know.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, it's you kind of you have to straddle.
Speaker: I love this word.
Speaker: You have to straddle, you know, between industry professionals and not upsetting them and getting the right information out to Joe Public.
Speaker: And, you know, and as you probably know, and I'm sure Eileen knows and anybody who talks to anybody in the public, there's so many crazy questions.
Speaker: Like crazy questions.
Speaker: Like, do you fart after you die?
Speaker: Like I remember one of my best friends asking me that after I'd started.
Speaker: I was just like, I mean, yeah, like I don't want... It was just so funny.
Speaker: But the hilarious thing as well is I'm not an embalmer.
Speaker: I'm not a licensed funeral director.
Speaker: Like I am very much celebrant memorial planner, spokesperson for the industry and for products and innovations in it.
Speaker: Like that's what I love.
Speaker: I love writing about it.
Speaker: Like I love writing...
Speaker: you know journalist articles and stuff like that that's what my bag is I am never going to say I'm an embalmer I'm not a licensed funeral director nor do I have any intention of being and actually I met Monica and I hope I didn't piss her off but it's just one of my thoughts in that she's obviously an incredible embalmer and I was just saying that I wish legislation on the funeral industry would lighten up insofar as
Speaker: I personally would love to have taken the funeral director, you know, license.
Speaker: I would like to become a licensed funeral person.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I'm just putting it out there.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But I have no interest in embalming.
Speaker: But there's lots of other things I would love to be interested in.
Speaker: And the reason part of the reason why I say that is all my education has been and in different states.
Speaker: And I know you know this.
Speaker: In different states, there's different legislation or like in Ireland, there's no legislation.
Speaker: And so, yeah, could I set up a funeral home as I am now, unlicensed in, I think, Colorado and there's, you know, different places, right?
Speaker: So I think that's crazy because it's supposed to be the United States of America.
Speaker: So that's just for one.
Speaker: But second of all, I wasn't able to help my colleagues during COVID.
Speaker: So my number one job in any of the funeral homes I work in is to bring people together.
Speaker: Now I was able to do my celebrant work, but like they, when they were working 24 seven and inundated, I was not able to help because I wasn't licensed.
Speaker: That to me is a misstep.
Speaker: And I know Monica, I think just immediately went on that.
Speaker: No, embalming is super important.
Speaker: And I was like, no, I'm not saying it's not.
Speaker: I'm just saying you're, you're you, you're experts, but you know, don't forget there's other people, experts and other things.
Speaker: So it was kind of funny.
Speaker: We might get her on the podcast to explain that in more detail.
Speaker: But yeah, what are your thoughts on that actually?
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: Like on having parts of the curriculum available to people at nauseam, whatever.
Speaker: Online?
Speaker: Like the ability for people to see it online?
Speaker: Well, yes and no.
Speaker: Like a bit like, so say for example, I have a degree in business that I did.
Speaker: And I specialised in marketing.
Speaker: So it was a four-year degree and I specialised my final year in marketing.
Speaker: So, you know, if funerals...
Speaker: is a two-year degree, say, for example, and then for one year of it, you specialize.
Speaker: So yeah, maybe you do learn about the anatomy.
Speaker: You do learn certain basics, but then you can specialize.
Speaker: So like, for example, for me, who wants nothing to do with embalming or the body, you know, I can still do it and be trained and then help people.
Speaker: So in some states, that's how it is.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: In California, you can have a funeral arranger license.
Speaker: In Texas, you can just have a funeral director, but they're not an associate's degree.
Speaker: They're more or less like a certificate program.
Speaker: So that's, again, where the United States should have a united thing about some of the states around here, you have to have a bachelor's degree.
Speaker: Now, I'm not opposed to that.
Speaker: I think we ought to have a lot more psychology and business in our education beyond an associate's.
Speaker: But, I mean, we still have books that
Speaker: you know, are from the sixties and,
Speaker: and are still teaching the same Caucasian cosmetics to everybody.
Speaker: Oh, God.
Speaker: We still have all the time.
Speaker: Oh, God.
Speaker: Oh, listen.
Speaker: Yeah, and don't get me started.
Speaker: I mean, talk about an antiquated industry.
Speaker: Like, I really don't know.
Speaker: My parents sometimes are like, Jen, why?
Speaker: Why?
Speaker: You have a degree in business.
Speaker: And of course, I love my mom.
Speaker: She's so cute.
Speaker: She's like, you could be CEO of Google, and you're choosing to do this.
Speaker: I'm like, well, I don't know about CEO of Google.
Speaker: You don't just apply for that job.
Speaker: But yeah, I mean, it's definitely, it's an uphill struggle, this industry.
Speaker: It's just not.
Speaker: And even, that's another thing I think I brought up with the Death Wives, we had a bit of crack about it, is even calling it an industry.
Speaker: You know, amongst the industry, it's, oh, you can't call it an industry.
Speaker: Oh no, it's a community.
Speaker: And oh no, it's this and it's that.
Speaker: I'm like, there's profit and loss and, you know, the supply and demand.
Speaker: Guys, it's an industry.
Speaker: It's a business.
Speaker: And I'm sorry, you can dress it up whatever way you like.
Speaker: But yeah, very frustrating.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Now tell us on your, because we're going to go back down the green burial route or route as you guys say.
Speaker: So what are your current methods of disposition that you're educating on?
Speaker: Natural burial where the body is unembalmed, maybe the families participated in sponge bathing or bathing the body, you know, just at the funeral home.
Speaker: And then
Speaker: disposition in a shroud or a cardboard box that the family's decorated.
Speaker: I really push for, you know, families having the option to be more involved if they want.
Speaker: And then from the burial segment, it kind of breaks into like shades of green burials.
Speaker: So, because there's so many cemeteries that can't accommodate for certain things that like a dark green funeral would, you know, consist of like a shroud with no vault.
Speaker: That way we can make everybody happy with what's available.
Speaker: And then of course, water cremation as it's legalized in the states where it comes up for legislation, you know, having people aware that that's an option
Speaker: is huge, especially for those, you know, that can't financially afford a burial because of the plot space and whatnot.
Speaker: And then boom, all of a sudden we got natural organic reduction legalized.
Speaker: And I moved to Washington from Texas because all the fighting is done.
Speaker: The stuff's already legalized here.
Speaker: You're like, who's that?
Speaker: I'm five, guys.
Speaker: So I'm here to help.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Myself and Kermit.
Speaker: So you've gone from, so you're originally from Austin in Texas.
Speaker: Or no, you moved to Austin in Texas.
Speaker: That was your first gig.
Speaker: And now you're in Washington.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: From Lovett.
Speaker: Holy God.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And so what is your, going to be a bit biased here now, what's your preferred water, the composting, or the natural burial?
Speaker: Really, I prefer the natural burial.
Speaker: I haven't found the place that I want to be buried at yet, but I just want to be wrapped up in a shroud with a lot of flower petals so I'm not touching the dirt.
Speaker: Oh,
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: It's so funny how, and I'm sure you're the same.
Speaker: I talked to two people.
Speaker: One person is exactly that.
Speaker: Like my mum, you know, back when we did her pre-plan, you know, mum, do you want to be buried or cremated?
Speaker: Because that was kind of really the options.
Speaker: And she said, oh, cremated, cremated.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely cremated.
Speaker: Because, you know, I don't want to be buried with the worms.
Speaker: You know, I don't want them eating me.
Speaker: And, you know, at least I'll be warm in the cremation.
Speaker: I'm like, what?
Speaker: What is going on?
Speaker: But then there's other people who are like, that's absolute nonsense.
Speaker: I don't care what happens to me.
Speaker: And that's my dad.
Speaker: It's probably why I am the way I am, because I have both.
Speaker: And I can understand both.
Speaker: Both of them are very, you know, valid perspectives.
Speaker: So it's interesting.
Speaker: Now tell me about the composting, because I would love to get Katrina on, but I think she's like super busy or I don't know what's going on.
Speaker: Here's the catch.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So there's not just one place.
Speaker: I had heard there was two.
Speaker: There's three.
Speaker: Oh my God.
Speaker: So return home.
Speaker: They're all in Washington.
Speaker: You got one in South Washington and then recompose and return home or within miles of each other outside of Seattle.
Speaker: So if you want to have a really good interview, reach out to Return Home, the funeral director, Bree, which is great.
Speaker: But I have been fortunate enough to do two laying-ins there, like assisted with two of them at her facility.
Speaker: And then the ones in South Washington at Herland Forest, I've assisted with two laying-ins there.
Speaker: Now, talk to me, this laying-in.
Speaker: Can you give me like a quick synopsis of exactly what happens?
Speaker: Say I was interested in this composting because you're the first person we've had on who has a bit of an insider knowledge.
Speaker: So feed us with this knowledge.
Speaker: Like what would happen to me once I pop my clogs and I'm in your care and we're going, we're going for composting.
Speaker: So it's like a natural burial without the bugs and without taking up space.
Speaker: So I don't know how recomposed does it.
Speaker: I haven't laid eyes personally on what's going on over there.
Speaker: But at the other two facilities, they have what looks like a giant freezer box, but it's not as a shape that way.
Speaker: And natural material like alfalfa, sawdust, you know, mulch basically is placed into the vessel about half full.
Speaker: And then the body is lowered in with a lowering device or with people, you know, out at Herland Forest.
Speaker: They don't have a lot of electronics out there.
Speaker: So we're manhandling it.
Speaker: And the body gets leaned in.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And if the family wants to be involved and see the body, since we can't have clothing involved, Return Home utilizes like a paper doll kind of outfit that's biodegradable that breaks down within the 30 slash 60 days it takes.
Speaker: So they can like put that around you and flowers all around and your family can come and see you, or they'll just put the mulch layer on top of you and put you in your slot.
Speaker: And they have about 72 spots at return home versus I think 18 over at recompose, but recompose is opening a second facility in Seattle pretty soon.
Speaker: And then out at Herland forest, his are all outside.
Speaker: The first two places are indoors inside like warehouses.
Speaker: And then the other facility is outside.
Speaker: So they look like giant, you know how they keep the cords for the telephone wires.
Speaker: They look like those big round spools.
Speaker: It looks like that with the body container section in the middle so it can roll.
Speaker: His process takes 90 to 120 days since it's outside and you have to deal with temperatures that are outdoors.
Speaker: The other facilities recompose is at 30 days before they return soil material to the family and return home is at 60 days.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So they're all obviously utilizing slightly different methods or different temperatures maybe or something.
Speaker: And it's pure soil that comes back.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah, so it's really cool.
Speaker: There's pictures of it on my Instagram.
Speaker: It doesn't smell weird.
Speaker: It just looks moist.
Speaker: I mean, like dark, like literally.
Speaker: Have you held it up against sort of garden soil and gone, what is the difference?
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: It's like mulch.
Speaker: If you want to know, it's like processed mulch.
Speaker: It's not like the thick mulch.
Speaker: It's like the thin mulch.
Speaker: Yeah, because it's not really soil chemically.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: it's uh yeah yeah compost yeah thank god and god that's fascinating i really i'm dying to see that in person i have to say not dying actually that's i just did an industry faux pas there god i've got that i wonder what it's like in terms of like growing plants like does it grow them stronger you know weaker has there been any tests so
Speaker: There have been some tests done and Brie can go over that with you with Return Home.
Speaker: But personally, I put it on some of my potted plants and they like started going a lot faster.
Speaker: It's meant to go on the top layer.
Speaker: So families, this process yields about an entire pickup bed full, pickup truck bed full of material.
Speaker: So a lot of families can opt for different sizes, like a hat box size or a one inch, I mean, one foot by one foot cube, or some have the whole thing, you know, they can pick up the whole thing.
Speaker: But in places where the families can't take it all, it's being re-dispersed into new, into land, revitalizing land that's, you know, been depleted.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: It's really cool depending on which facility that you utilize where your, your, your, this may end up.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, it's, it's so good that like we, we are, we can put some good back into, you know, the planet.
Speaker: I mean, God almighty.
Speaker: Now what happens to like carcinogens and like any drug use during your life?
Speaker: Like, does that just, how does that just evaporate or like what, how does that work?
Speaker: You can't do Ebola, a Crutchfield, Jacobs, or radiation with this method, but water cremation you can.
Speaker: That's where you can reduce the radiation seeds by half-life pretty quickly by the time you get to the end of the process.
Speaker: So again, it's not for everybody, kind of like natural burial would be for everybody.
Speaker: But as far as, you know, just regular drugs that are in your system from end of life, all of that gets kind of pretty much gobbled up and inert by the microbiomes and stuff that are in your body.
Speaker: It's insane.
Speaker: It really is fascinating.
Speaker: I mean, like, you know, this is what I would like to, this is the part of the funeral course I'm talking about I'd be interested in, you know, like this part.
Speaker: And that is, it is about the body, but it's just, I'm just not into the slicing of heads and limbs and, you know, organs.
Speaker: Like I read, and listen, I'm, you know, work in this business and stuff.
Speaker: So, you know, I'm used to seeing what I see and all that.
Speaker: But like, I did read, I try and read some business books.
Speaker: I do read some fiction then just to keep my, you know, brain out of, but like I do read business and then I do read industry books.
Speaker: And I finally got to read, what's her name's smoke through the eyes or something like that, whatever it's called.
Speaker: She's got an Irish last name, but it's not really Irish last name.
Speaker: I'm like,
Speaker: That's not the way you say it.
Speaker: But anyway, I read that and I was like, there were parts of it.
Speaker: I was just like, oh God, I don't need to.
Speaker: Yeah, but anyway.
Speaker: It gets worse.
Speaker: Books get worse.
Speaker: Because I've watched...
Speaker: yeah a lot of yeah well I've watched some of her videos and listen you know I'm all for all you know any education and stuff but there's just there's some people out there who I love and there's some people who I'm just like yeah I can't I can't cope I'm I'm very unfortunately say it as an is type of person so like you can kind of always tell whether I'm into somebody or I'm not I'm just like
Speaker: But back to so right.
Speaker: So water cremation and composting.
Speaker: I mean, those are two huge developments for the industry in the last decade.
Speaker: Now, one of the things that irritates me, if I may be so frank, is that like so now composting does three types of and the alkaline hydrolysis.
Speaker: There's so many different varieties of it and variations of it.
Speaker: Yeah, but is there, though?
Speaker: Because like, isn't there's resumation, biochremation, water cremation, alkaline, hydrolysis, like, and I know that there's certain ones taking brands.
Speaker: I just, one of my things, and it's probably my marketing background, is I feel like that's possibly where consumers get a bit scared and a bit like, oh, God, have I got the right one?
Speaker: is this all the same thing?
Speaker: Is that the same as that?
Speaker: And now that you've told me about three different composting, part of me is like, I wonder, will people get that fear about that too?
Speaker: You know, it's a valid, it's like when it's going to happen.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: They've tripped and fallen already in the marketing of what I prefer to call water cremation.
Speaker: It's palatable for the general public.
Speaker: They understand that it's cremation by water, which by definition is what the alkaline hydrolysis is for the funeral law.
Speaker: You know, in each state it's legalized.
Speaker: So reduction of the body by water.
Speaker: And there's two different brand names that are out there.
Speaker: The Aquamation machine is by Bioresponse Solution.
Speaker: They're American based.
Speaker: And then you've got one from...
Speaker: It's the UK that is Resumation.
Speaker: And it's, yeah, Resumation Machine.
Speaker: And they're two completely different machines.
Speaker: Granted, they end result, but they operate differently.
Speaker: They're just different.
Speaker: And their cost is different too.
Speaker: And one of them, you know, BioResponse Solution with Aquamation is in the pet market.
Speaker: So their name, their terminology, Aquamation is starting to be the more recognized one.
Speaker: because all these pet places are naming their business resting pet aquamation.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: People are like, what is aquamation?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's like, I think, you know, we all should have come together at the beginning of this, you know, like the funeral directors of the past failed to do the flame cremation and have a discussion about how to market this, because I will have to argue with old school funeral directors that have just barely grasped onto the term aquamation.
Speaker: And they're using a completely different machine.
Speaker: And I'm like, that's like, you know, calling Levi jeans, what, or something.
Speaker: Oh, your brain's definitely...
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Nodes versus beats, you know, totally different.
Speaker: Totally different.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, yeah, it's frustrating to watch because I'm just like, you know, these are huge changes to the industry and they
Speaker: have the potential to change people's worlds, people's perception, everything, like really and truly.
Speaker: And it is such an antiquated industry.
Speaker: And, you know, it's just frustrating that we can't all come together and go, here's how the future should look, you know?
Speaker: And listen, like I was a part of a company back in Ireland called Eco Legacy, and we'd come up with Ecolation.
Speaker: I don't know if you'd ever heard of them.
Speaker: No, no, well you wouldn't have unfortunately because yeah, about seven years ago they, we imploded because of business, issues in business and so it was just unfortunate and actually it was really well yeah so you'll completely like I was, I actually I'm not even joking I was mourning that for a good three years
Speaker: because it broke my heart because we had such an incredible technology that was literally going to change the industry and it was pure corporate greed that flipped it on its head i was broken hearted over it i really was
Speaker: and yeah that's yeah that's yeah that's about seven years ago yeah it sounds like we could we'll hang out for drinks um sometime soon melissa and hash through it all yeah but now what's what do you think so like burial and cremation are not going to go away anytime soon like what do you think's the future of like burial potentially more green but again we're running out of space i mean asia is 99.9 cremation rate
Speaker: So cremation seems to be the future.
Speaker: Now, whether that's water or composting, although composting, it sounds like they may have to, it doesn't sound like it's going to be able to sort of get as big as fast as we may be needed in the world.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Again, I'm not on the inside.
Speaker: Like, what do you think is the future of cremation?
Speaker: Is there, you know, are current units changing them?
Speaker: I thankfully have my finger on the pulse of where this is going, although I feel like I'm 10 years in the future from some people.
Speaker: But I've been pretty spot on so far.
Speaker: I really think...
Speaker: If the industry will collectively do better at educating the public, water cremation could very well be a very good thing to happen.
Speaker: Otherwise, it's going to continue to move towards flame cremation because of the cost factor and the ability for so many providers to do direct services for as cheap as $600.
Speaker: There's always going to be families that can't do the big or don't want to.
Speaker: And so I see that.
Speaker: especially since we're going into like some dystopian future, who knows?
Speaker: I know, well.
Speaker: I think climate change will be around for a while.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I think we're going to see even less and less of the embalming as these boomers go through.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think it'll be even less and less and less.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's interesting that you say that because I,
Speaker: And again, you know, if I'm talking to a pro embalmer on my podcast, I've no issue with embalming.
Speaker: I just haven't into it myself.
Speaker: It's the one thing I have said.
Speaker: I just am not personally into it.
Speaker: I don't want to be poked and prodded, especially by people that I am now working with.
Speaker: I'm like, you don't get to touch this when I have no say.
Speaker: No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker: And that's a real, you know, that's a real thing.
Speaker: I'm like,
Speaker: No, you don't get to, you know, it's definitely not something I'm interested in.
Speaker: And listen, they do an amazing job.
Speaker: And I know some incredible ones back home in Ireland as well as here.
Speaker: Glyn Tallon being one of the most famous ones coming out of Ireland.
Speaker: I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but he often does like the NFDA and things like that.
Speaker: And then obviously Monica, apparently incredible as well.
Speaker: And so there are incredible artists, I would call them out there at the BAM.
Speaker: It's just not for me.
Speaker: And I know it's not for a lot of people.
Speaker: And for me and what I do, I try and meet people where they're at and figure out what it is that they want.
Speaker: So, you know, as you said, like,
Speaker: cremation I definitely think it's going to get bigger and bigger
Speaker: portion wise of people choosing it whether it's water cremation or flame cremation you know flame with the pollutants and stuff like that climate change is on the top of everybody's lips at the moment so you know i i think that needs to need that that part of it needs a radical change in and of itself i don't think having these chimneys just having you know filtering it i don't think is is it's not working anymore i mean i know
Speaker: a lot of the groups out there that are saying you know formaldehyde and there's there's there's a lot of things in the industry that climate change and poisonous gases and liquids wise we need to change and evolve and i think we have a lot to answer for as an industry and i think it's too easy for the top dogs to kind of say oh well we're only a tiny percent compared to the car industry or the
Speaker: Yeah, but you know what?
Speaker: Our tiny percent could save the world.
Speaker: So, you know, let's get off our fat cash stools.
Speaker: Yeah, there's so much we could do.
Speaker: Like so many funeral homes still use fax machines and print everything out.
Speaker: Hello, we're in the digital age.
Speaker: It's a thing.
Speaker: I can't even cope with that because that is facts.
Speaker: Yeah, baby steps.
Speaker: So many little things that they could do.
Speaker: I've heard the argument when I'm like,
Speaker: You know, you can choose a greener option, like with this natural organic production, somebody's like, well, you have to truck in all the materials.
Speaker: Yeah, for two of the facilities.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But you're trucking metal and what else with the other one?
Speaker: Let's nitpick it to pieces.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, either way, give people the option to decide for themselves.
Speaker: I think when water cremation first came out, I heard too many funeral directors going, it's like putting grandma in a crog pot.
Speaker: And you know what?
Speaker: You just started a problem because now that's what people are going to think about anytime they hear you talking about it.
Speaker: We as professionals owe it to the community and to people that we talk to, to be knowledgeable on those things, whether we like it or not.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it is unfortunate.
Speaker: I mean, I, from what I have seen of water cremation,
Speaker: it's you know the end result is gorgeous and I know there is some and that provide you with the liquid back as well as the sort of the ash like consistency I'm hoping they will get to that point right now the water can either go into the municipal sewer system which is actually considered an excellent excellent thing if you ever want to interview somebody in that space they can explain how
Speaker: chemically and bio, you know, it's so good and it's great for sewer systems, but in some places it's picked up and put on sod or in trees, you know, around trees and things like that where they're replenishing land.
Speaker: They don't have this idea yet, but I think it should be an option where what if the family wants like, okay, they obviously can't take these big giant barrel vats that are as big as a person, you know, fold it up.
Speaker: Like they can't do that full of the effluent, the liquid that's left.
Speaker: Now all this liquid is really good.
Speaker: It's like water, peptides, amino acids, salts, fats.
Speaker: So it's great for gardening.
Speaker: Give them a growler of grandma.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Let him take home a crawler to, you know, garden with.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Since you can't do the big thing, give him the option for the little thing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So many places where we're all tripping on our feet and not doing the best we could.
Speaker: Well, and you know what, like you've absolutely hit the nail on the head in the last five minutes of what you said, because even I know when I started, when I was working with Eco Legacy, you know, we had that, oh my God, wait, there's an option of flushing grandma down the toilet.
Speaker: Wait, what?
Speaker: and you know like that that it did it became sort of the industry like wait what what's this what's going on here now you know and all of us have seen the horror movies where how do you get rid of the dead body you stick in the bath with i don't even know the liquid but so that's all that we're all imagining is like no like that's not right so you're right it's just it's totally about education and unfortunately as well there's there's those whispers right so they do one penis of damage then there's what we can
Speaker: we take what somebody's saying and we attribute it, which is just absolute human nature, we attribute it to what we know.
Speaker: So we know that from the movies of a body going in and dissolving and we're like, that's not good.
Speaker: So we automatically have a, that's not good.
Speaker: And then we hear this flushing grandma down to it and we're like, that's not good.
Speaker: And then you've got and I know this has happened in the UK where they've gotten units in and they can't actually use them because the local government or the council are saying that, no, you're poisoning the systems.
Speaker: So then you've got that bad news rep.
Speaker: And so then it just creates.
Speaker: And then, of course, that spreads worldwide.
Speaker: And so then you're going to have more issues in the US with getting, you know, because they're going to listen to their UK blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker: It spreads like wildfire.
Speaker: It's a very, I'm already exhausted from just saying that, but it is, that's what it is.
Speaker: It's an exhausting, it feels like it's constantly an uphill battle.
Speaker: And it's kind of back to your original point of if we would all just come together.
Speaker: And it's very interesting because I have said that, I think it was three years ago at the NFDA, I'd met a couple of like-minded people and I was like, guys,
Speaker: Like we just all need to come together and form some sort of a community and figure this out because there's so many of us with, we might not all agree on exactly the same things, but we have an ethos that we all agree on.
Speaker: And we're mostly younger.
Speaker: We're a lot female, but you know, we just, we have wider spans of thought processes is what I will very diplomatically say.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So tell me before we wind up with you, as much as I would love to yap to you all night, I try and keep these podcasts within 20 minutes.
Speaker: We're already stretching that a hell of a lot.
Speaker: Is there anything you've got coming up?
Speaker: So you're going to be talking to some people about how you and Kermit came to be.
Speaker: Is there anything else you've got going on?
Speaker: You're starting a new job.
Speaker: Can you tell us what that is?
Speaker: Now, by the time this is out, you'll already be there.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: I can't talk about it that much because it's one of those kind of positions where they don't want any kind of outside progressive stuff going on.
Speaker: And I need insurance, so I have to do whatever you want me to do.
Speaker: Got you.
Speaker: Well, my Instagram is going to keep focusing on the little classes that I'm developing to teach people to do stuff.
Speaker: And then, of course, I've got tons of archive photos that I can continue to educate people in the greener forms of death care.
Speaker: even though I'm doing lots of different kinds of death care on the back.
Speaker: Good.
Speaker: Well, listen, that's what you've got to do.
Speaker: And I think that's what us ladies that are into educating and into spreading the word.
Speaker: I think that's what we have to do.
Speaker: It's not...
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Talk about the hustle, the side hustle.
Speaker: But it's not, you know, it is a very male, older male dominated industry.
Speaker: And so, you know, we've got to do what we've got to do.
Speaker: So more power to you, girlfriend.
Speaker: And if I can ever be of any assistance, please reach out.
Speaker: But before we wind up, tell us again what your handles are and how people can connect with you.
Speaker: We'll leave all the links.
Speaker: So this is going to be on YouTube and audio, but we'll leave all the links.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I have a YouTube channel that I do nothing with, but YouTube and Facebook is The Modern Mortician.
Speaker: And then on Instagram and TikTok, it's at mod underscore mortician.
Speaker: Hooray.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much for joining us and good luck in your job.
Speaker: And we will maybe have another update, you know, in another couple of months.
Speaker: Who knows what's happening?
Speaker: The Glam Reaper meets The Modern Mortician.
Speaker: What did you think?
Speaker: Send your comments, questions, any queries or concerns to glamreaperpodcast at gmail.com and we look forward to talking to you.
