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00:00:01
When Losing a Pet Feels Like Losing Family
1 Plays3 seconds ago
What happens when losing a pet feels like losing part of yourself?
In this episode, Jennifer Muldowney sits down with Adam Greenbaum, founder of Love Baxter, to talk about the kind of grief people often struggle to explain out loud. Adam shares the story of Baxter, the dog who stayed beside him through the hardest years of his life, from building a company to the quiet moments most people never see. When Baxter suddenly became sick, Adam and his wife spent months fighting to save him, only to lose him days after being told he had “beaten” his illness.
What makes this conversation powerful is not just the story of Baxter. It’s the reminder that pets become part of our routines, our identity, and our emotional safety. They are there through loneliness, stress, heartbreak, and joy without judgment or conditions. And when they’re gone, the silence they leave behind can change everything.
Key Topics:
-Why losing a pet can feel as painful as losing a family member
-Building emotional support systems for people grieving the loss of a pet
-The hidden reality of pet grief that most people do not talk about
-Creating better guidance and resources for families facing pet loss
-Understanding the deep emotional bond between humans and their pets
Quotes from the episode:
“There’s no funeral, there’s no blueprint, there’s no community rallying around you when your pet dies.”
— Jennifer Muldowney
I spent my whole life trying to be good enough… and in that moment, I realized I already was.
— Adam Greenbaum
Timestamps:
[02:24] Baxter’s Rescue Story: Adam shares how he found Baxter in a neglected home and brought him into his life.
[05:13] Fighting to Save Baxter: Adam opens up about Baxter’s final months, the costly treatments, and the heartbreak of losing him days after being told he was okay.
[08:04] Why Love Baxter Exists: Adam explains how he built Love Baxter to connect grieving pet owners with support, guidance, and trusted resources.
[10:23] When Pet Owners Are Left Alone: Adam talks about the gap between saying pets are family and actually supporting families after loss.
[12:03] Why Pet Grief Feels So Invisible: Jennifer and Adam discuss how pet loss often comes without leave, rituals, or community support.
[19:20] Turning Pain Into Purpose: Jennifer and Adam talk about helping grieving families because the work truly matters.
[29:13] Listening Before Selling: Adam shares why death care should start with understanding the family, not pushing services.
[34:46] Helping Children Through Pet Loss: Adam reveals that many families search for guidance on how to help kids grieve a pet.
[36:56] Honoring a Pet the Right Way: Adam ends with a reminder that saying goodbye to a beloved pet should be handled with care.
Connect with Adam Greenbaum at:
Websites - lovebaxter.com
beacons.ai
Connect with Jennifer/The Glam Reaper on socials at:
Instagram - / jennifermuldowney
TikTok - / therealglamreaper
YouTube - / @theglamreapermuldowney
LinkedIn - / jennifermuldowney
Facebook Page - / muldowneymemorials
Email us - glamreaperpodcast@gmail.com
Shop Merch - https://the-glam-reaper.printify.me/
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Transcript
The Emotional Impact of Pet Loss
00:00:00
Speaker
The thing I would say to people who don't understand what people go through when their pet dies is outside of my life, there's not a human on this earth that sleeps next to me every single night, is there for me, good times and bad, who goes outside with me and just walks around and enjoys the world and enjoys life and smells the smells and feels the weather with me every single day.
00:00:33
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast. I'm your host Jennifer Muldowney aka The Glam Reaper. And on today's episode we are talking about something that is so so so close to my heart. Anybody who's listened to me in the last two or two years never mind on this podcast knows how much I love my pets and have loved them will love them forever forever. I'm wearing a t-shirt today in honor of this
Guest Introduction: Adam from Love Baxter
00:01:00
Speaker
podcast. I would like to welcome Adam of Love Baxter to the show who is, in my mind, kind of revolutionizing this space. And unfortunately, it comes from a shitty time that he went through. We already had a sneak peek with him at a conference, but here we go. Well, let's let's hear from the man himself. Adam, welcome. Hey, thanks for having me. Appreciate it Love the shirt. Send me a couple. Yeah. And hey, you know, I'm a big fan of yours and I and never in my life thought I'd be sitting here talking about death all the time. But hey, here we are talking about death.
00:01:31
Speaker
Now your circle includes me, includes the Glam Reaper. So you've got to, that's it. F is your daily life. You know what? I don't have like a cool, you know, you're you're the Glam Reaper. What is a cool, by the end of this episode, we should come try to come up with some sort of nickname for me that's not super morbid about like pet loss, you know?
00:01:51
Speaker
We do. We need to. We should ask Jatchy BT whenever I have a stump of it. I don't know. I don't know why I'm thinking green. Maybe it's because of your last name. I'm like the green lantern. Yeah. he goes That's kind of cool already. Maybe we just keep that move on.
00:02:03
Speaker
yeah But tell us, you know, you and i we get on really, really well. And, you know, we have great conversations like this. And i think more people need, like us, need to be in these spaces, having these conversations. Because at the end of the day, Adam, you and I have both, we've laughed and we've cried together. And that's the beauty of death and loss, right? But tell us your story or tell us Baxter's
Baxter's Story: Love and Loss
00:02:27
Speaker
story. And I'm going to do my best not to cry. I did even bring tissues because I just can't.
00:02:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, he ah he's the best. You notice I don't say that in past tense. He'll he'll be the best forever. i think that's an important distinction. i have a dog named Sophie. She's upstairs. She's also here on my hat.
00:02:45
Speaker
Sophie is 16 in a couple weeks. Yeah, i had her two years before Baxter. And, you know, I've been on my own since I was a teenager, so It was tough. And, you know, Sophie was is my baby. And, you know, I ran a dog rescue and I got an email one day from a guy i lived in Las Vegas. And he said, my new puppy you just won't shut the fuck up. Can you can you come help?
00:03:06
Speaker
So I drove over there in June in Las Vegas, June 12th, 2012. And I go in the backyard and I see this sick little red and white Boston Terrier in a box full of pee and poop.
00:03:18
Speaker
And I had Sophie with me. ah And my first thought was, okay, I'm going to kill this guy. And then I looked at him and I said, I'm taking the dog. He said, no, what do you mean? I just, I just paid. He's a puppy. I just bought it from a breeder in Oklahoma. I said, no, I'm not leaving without the dog. So we went back and forth. He said, 500 bucks. He's yours. I went to the bank, came back, here's your money.
00:03:38
Speaker
This dog was sick. He was skinny. He was covered in pee and poop. And I brought him home. And i definitely couldn't have afforded him. And i had Sophie, who I didn't consult with first.
00:03:50
Speaker
and And I made it work. For the next 12 years, Baxter spent every waking moment thanking me and the way he acted. He was my best friend. You know, Sophie, it's funny. Sophie's like my baby still.
00:04:04
Speaker
She's 16 years old. And she's like, we joke that she has a British accent. And she like, when she needs something, she punches the couch or she punches the wall. But we joke that she's like, daddy, i want a treat. You know, she's like ah the girl who's like, I want a squirrel from um Willy Wonka. But yeah, she's like, daddy, give me a treat. Daddy, make me cod, make me turkey. So, you know, you have this like baby. And then you have Baxter.
00:04:27
Speaker
And, you know, I built a big software company that I sold a couple of years ago and that was hard. was just there by my side, you know, 4 a.m., stressed up early. He was there working till midnight. The whole house would go to sleep. He wouldn't leave my side, take the trash out. He'd lay down by the door like he was just he was my best friend.
00:04:46
Speaker
And my software company, we worked with over 10,000 veterinary clinics who are our customers. And i would consider hundreds of veterinarians close
Creating Love Baxter: A Mission Born from Grief
00:04:56
Speaker
friends.
00:04:56
Speaker
He got sick and he goes to the best general practice vet here in Southern California. And they said, hey, something's not right. We're going to send you to a specialty clinic, which is like literally the four seasons of veterinary clinics Laguna Beach. And I remember the first time my wife and I walked in, I looked and I was like, we are so screwed because...
00:05:18
Speaker
It doesn't look that nice because it's cheap. um And, you know, we spent $35,000 in the final five months of Baxter's life. And we fought and we fought and he fought. And I think that's important distinction. He fought hard.
00:05:32
Speaker
And no one ever said to us, he might die. He might not survive whatever this is. And and it was it was a whirlwind. It was something's really wrong. Okay, we think it's cancer.
00:05:46
Speaker
you know Oh, no, we did all these tests. It's not cancer. Oh, wait, now we're going run this test. Oh, it's it's cancer. No, never mind. It's not cancer. And we did that for months. Spent so much money putting him through hell. And he just fought through it. And he would have good days and bad days.
00:05:59
Speaker
And on Wednesday... Our vet did blood work and he had a couple of good days and our vet looked us in the eyes and said, it's Bob work looks perfect. You beat this.
00:06:10
Speaker
He's we're good. You can take him home. And we celebrated and it was the best night. And we were like, okay, that was really scary. Holy shit. But we're good. And then he was gone Monday. And what happened in between that Wednesday and that Monday was horrific because And it was going to be hard either way, but it was the whiplash of being told, he's good, you beat this. Those are the words. I'm not making those words up.
00:06:33
Speaker
His blood work looks perfect. You wouldn't say that about a puppy's blood work. And yet it was said to us in that situation about him and a sick dog. And you beat this.
00:06:46
Speaker
While I really, really appreciate that, could you imagine if you're out there watching this, if your parents or significant other was fighting cancer and the oncologist looked at you and said, oh, they're good. They beat this. Yeah, go home. You're good And then they were gone a couple days later. It'd be very hard to stomach. So... That made those next couple days really confusing and hard.
00:07:06
Speaker
And then he was gone. And then I i did what 35 to 30,000 people in the U.S. do every day. They go out into the world and they look for help when their pet dies.
00:07:16
Speaker
And found zero. And that was really disheartening. So I built it.
Pet Death Care: A Missing System
00:07:22
Speaker
And that is my super long, sad, winded version of the start of Love Baxter.
00:07:27
Speaker
And that's that's what love Baxter is. It's it's your love note to Baxter. and and And not kind of not that you can ever prevent what you went through from happening again, because you can't physically ever promise that to anybody. But it's your best way of gathering ah the experts in each of their different fields in one place. So that yeah at least the person doesn't have to go looking for it, which is... yeah hot Well, that's I mean, and what's what's crazy is there's, as you know, in human death care, and there are so many wonderful dots in the universe that do an amazing job.
00:08:05
Speaker
yeah Where we struggled, especially in the pet world, was you had this university of this organization and this person, and they're just kind of floating in space. But there was there was not a sun. i like to talk about Love Baxter as the sun.
00:08:20
Speaker
There wasn't a sun that just connected all the dots. And and the thing I tell a lot of people is like, I'm not competing with any of these dots in space, these planets, these stars. I want them all to exist.
00:08:31
Speaker
I'm just here to help guide people to the right place. That's it. And that's and that's what we built here. And I and i think it's really important. you know Everyone's going to need something different. Everyone's pets are different and every person's different. I just want them to find what they need um and and and get some guidance along the way. The guidance that I, you know, I mean, I was like...
00:08:51
Speaker
spiraling for weeks. I was Googling, you know, I'm not a religious person. I'm sitting there Googling proof of afterlife for dogs. What does the Bible say about, you know, what does the Bible say about pet afterlife? I'm a non-religious Jewish person. I'm searching. What does the Bible say about pet afterlife? I mean, I was just like going through it, just like, what can I find that will make me feel better? ah And then I realized like, there's nothing out there. So I have to go build this. Yeah, yeah. and And even when I met you where we had a clip of and part of Baxter Story shared last year, i think it was it was summer last year anyway, it was at the pet conference. You know, even when I met you then, you could tell it was still so raw. And it's not that it's not raw now, but I think you're you're further into building this and you're sort of seeing bit more. From the logistics side and the business side, what other pet companies are going through. Do you want to talk a little bit about about that bit what your experience is with that?
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah i mean i mean, it's it's unbelievable. In fact, we had a post on our Instagram page go crazy viral. It's still going viral while we're sitting here talking. We received over 2,500 messages, comments, and emails since yesterday ah through love baxter which is a lot.
00:10:11
Speaker
And that's a, you know, from a business perspective, that's, it it costs nothing for us to go reply to these people. We make no money. um But this is just human decency of being there for them and hopefully hope helping them understand like why, you know, Love Baxter should be their place to find this stuff. But, you know, the emails we receive every day are horrific.
00:10:34
Speaker
And here I am. i spent the last 10 years supporting over 10,000 veterinary clinics globally. And when win a vet business signed up with us, we had a survey.
00:10:45
Speaker
Tell us about you. What's your name? What's your position? What do you do at the clinic? and And like the fourth question was, what makes your clinic special? And man, I could have bet my life savings every time. The answer was always two answers.
00:11:00
Speaker
We treat your pet like family. We're there for all stages of your pet's life. That's it every time. Thousands of veterinarians, practice managers from thousands of veterinary clinics globally. This is not a U.S. thing. It's not a Canada thing. It's not a U.K. thing. This was globally.
00:11:16
Speaker
Those were the two things as if that's what they were taught to say. but then there's data that comes out. Eric Gardner, you know, did this awesome, awesome report. 817,000 pets that were euthanized.
00:11:31
Speaker
About half of cats and dogs saw their vet or did not see their vet in the 18 months before they were passed away. Half. That's not being there for all stages of our pet's life.
00:11:45
Speaker
And every day I receive thousands of emails from people who are like, okay, went to the vet. Vet said, dog's sick. We put the dog down. They said they'll call me in two weeks to get their ashes. I got the ashes back. I picked them up at the front desk in a bag.
00:12:00
Speaker
i left. I never heard from them again. Well, that's not really treating people like family. So, you know, we we just have this... We have 70% of households in the U.S. have a pet and 11% of companies have pet bereavement leave.
00:12:18
Speaker
So you could have this dog and and and is such is the case for so many people that message us. get a dog when they're 10, 12 and they're sitting there and they're 27 years old.
00:12:29
Speaker
And they've had this dog in their life for 15 years. They moved out of the house. They took the dog with them. This dog has been with them through everything. And the dog dies. And their boss says, see you tomorrow. Sorry, we don't have to leave.
00:12:41
Speaker
If your mom died, yeah you can have two days off. But your dog... kiss my ass you we'll see you tomorrow and that's insane to me as well so and you know i i think from your side of things and probably a lot of your viewers i think i've learned a lot going down this road and meeting people like you and other experts it's the human death side is not exactly candy cane lane either but there's like some infrastructure built around this is what we do when a person dies We call Jennifer, we have her help us, and we put together a beautiful event.
00:13:16
Speaker
We know, we understand what hospice care is. We understand, you know, burial versus cremation. We know all those things. But for pets, there's, it's the Wild West. It is unregulated.
00:13:28
Speaker
yeah No. and and And there's no script for
Understanding the Unique Bond with Pets
00:13:31
Speaker
it. so So what I'm building on Love Baxter is we're building on a script for it. It's, you know, you have an eight-year-old dog, 10-year-old dog. Or you get a dot you might have a two-year-old dog that was just diagnosed with cancer, which happens often, unfortunately. and And you need a plan in place, we're going to help you put together a plan. Because right now, a plan doesn't exist. and it's And it's chaos. And it's hell.
00:13:51
Speaker
Yeah. And that's really, that is really what it is, is there, there is no blueprint. There's no, there's no, there's no script. There's no which way to go or showing you the options. I think actually in the human side of it, we're nearly fighting against the blueprints that were, You know, we nearly became so scripted. We went from unscripted to too so scripted to now we're like fighting against all this rigid, you know, rigidity. Is that even a word? All this control and sort of let's make up words on this podcast. and You know, but all of this sort of pressure to do things a certain way. I mean, i don't know how many times I get a family and they're like,
00:14:31
Speaker
asking me things and and and they're actually waiting for, it's not me per se, but they're waiting for somebody to give them permission to do something or to feel something. They really just need another human being to give them that permission.
00:14:43
Speaker
Whereas in the few in the pet space, and ah and it's interesting because I think I said this to you, like when we when I very, very first started this business, I went into the human side of it, but we also had the pet side of it. And my the pet side of my business has always been the quiet one. It's just sort of I've let it sort of in the background because there was never.
00:15:05
Speaker
it was weird to talk about it. I remember when I did my TEDx talk, yeah that was about loss. And people were, ah you know, when they realized I wasn't talking about my granny, they were like, oh, my God, shocked.
00:15:18
Speaker
It's it's to talk about pet loss as an equivalent to human loss is mind blowing for some people. And it is nearly more difficult. And i I hate any comparisons, but I just want to preface this by saying it is a little bit, I would say, maybe not more difficult, but there's just a different.
00:15:38
Speaker
Everyone experiences grief differently, but there's a difference in pet loss because you don't have a blueprint to follow. There's no funeral. There's no, like you said, you go to the vet, you have them euthanized and you come home. There's no funeral. There's nobody knocking at your door, bringing flowers or, you know, cooked dinners or your community doesn't rally around you because they don't even know what happened. There's no death notices. Like I could go on. if There's just nothing.
00:16:03
Speaker
There's barely condolence cards. No, I mean, and and you know, it's interesting and like I have this discussion a lot because I'm with you. I'm not here to compare a Baxter's loss to your mom's loss or your dad's loss.
00:16:14
Speaker
That's that's not what this is here for. But I the thing I would say to people who don't understand what people go through when their pet dies is, you know. Outside of my wife, there's not a human on this earth that sleeps next to me every single night, is there for me, good times and bad, who goes outside with me and just walks around and enjoys the world and enjoys life and smells the smells and feels the weather with me every single day.
00:16:42
Speaker
like my dogs do, like my cat does. So, you know, I just think it's so interesting for for so many of us, we have wonderful relationships with many of the humans in our lives. But, you know, after you're 18 years old, 20 years old, you move out of the house.
00:16:56
Speaker
How many days in your life Do you see your grandparents ever again? do you even see your parents ever again? And yet these animals are there 24 seven. They love you unconditionally.
00:17:09
Speaker
and they They take care of you. they They never ever with every human in your life, no matter how great your relationship is, you have a moment where you think back and say, ah can't believe you said that to me that one time. You really hurt me that one time. Your dog, your cat, your horse, your reptiles, they don't have that moment.
00:17:29
Speaker
There is no baggage. They just love you more than anything. They want to be laying next to you. They don't want to be away from you. They love you. They lick your face. They care about you more than anything. If your grandma did that, you'd say, get away from me.
00:17:45
Speaker
So, you know, again, this is not nothing is about a comparison. I'm i'm just saying it's from the pet side. This it's a hard game to lose a pet. Yeah. And I was even going to say, when you said aside from your wife, I was even going to say, and one better, i guarantee you, maybe not. ah I'm making a judgment call here. She doesn't come running to you at the front door, you know, physically shaking with excitement. Actually, my wife does every time. She's, she really loves me.
00:18:17
Speaker
Licking. Oh yeah. That's true. It's crazy. yeah. But it is, it's and there is this pure, unconditional love and excitement. Like no human that I know of or have ever met is so excited about doing the same things every day.
00:18:38
Speaker
about leaving the house about coming back to the house about seeing the leash about dinner know I mean just their unbridled excitement and positivity is just such a beautiful I mean we could learn so much from them and so yeah when that is gone and there's a void I mean, i i I still cry about Poppy and she's gone, you know, two years. It's it's she was my best. for i I think that she was my soulmate, honestly. i mean, you know, I it's it's heartbreaking. It's when they jump into a suitcase when you're packing up to leave and you. Oh, my God. No, I mean, it's, you know, it was just like, I was building a company for so many years. It was hard. And, you know, Baxter had to be touching me while I was asleep. And, you know, it would be four in the morning. i would just barely roll over and he'd look at me like, we're up.
00:19:32
Speaker
And we kind of like nod his head. And I'd say, yeah. And he would like, like he and I spoke and, you know, like we were saying, you know, we went on the same walk most days and, you know, I don't think I ever took him for granted in the in in, you know, when they were happening. But man, do I just miss so going on a 90 minute walk with him? I mean, and you could just tell he would just sniff and be happy and he would walk and he would like get ahead and he would always like look back at me like, we're good. And I would say,
Challenges in Pet Loss Care Industry
00:19:58
Speaker
yeah, man, we're good. Let's keep going. Yeah, he was just the best.
00:20:00
Speaker
He really is. Yeah. And it's it's those moments. And it's so it's an incredible thing, I think, what you're building. But I just want to touch on a little bit as well, the business aspect of it. Because yeah you have been quite surprised as well about, and this happens both in human and the pet side of it, but you've been surprised about how many people are doing this for the love of doing it, not financial gain. Oh my God.
00:20:25
Speaker
It's, you know, yeah. So let's talk a little bit about that, because that is a reality. A lot of people out there, I just want to preface this. So people who listen to this are both funeral professionals in the death space. And then there's general, I call them like me's before I kind of got into this. um So, you know, i think a lot of Joe public, as I call them, assume funeral homes are trying to take advantage of them. Vets, you know, they're paying off these bills.
00:20:51
Speaker
I don't think they realize the reality of the hard work and the hours that go in behind the scenes. But yeah, let's talk a little bit about people making money or not in this business.
00:21:02
Speaker
No, it's it's actually shocking. Now, again, I've you know been in the vet space for a long time and and you meet a lot of vets. Most people don't realize, like, you know, you think vets have to go to college for four years and they have to go to veterinary school. Veterinary school is insanely expensive.
00:21:16
Speaker
And then they have to go be veterinarians in the world. And you typically with hundreds of thousands of dollars of student debt. And i mean, I met so many vets that make well below $100,000 because they're not in L.A. or nearo New York, wherever. um And that's just a thing. And even the best, but I mean, a lot of the vets I know who are like really killing it, they're like, oh, I'm kicking ass. I make $150,000 a year, which I'm not knocking that. It's a lot of money. But I think when we think of doctors, you're not really thinking that much money. So I so i get into the pet the pet end of life space.
00:21:51
Speaker
Oh, my God. It was shocking for me because I met, well, I i worked with in-home euthanasia vets for years. I know maybe three who make about six figures. And I know a lot who I've talked to make, you know, 65 to 85, 90,000 a year. And they are like, hey, you know, I manage my own schedule. I live my own life. This is good.
00:22:14
Speaker
I always say to them, you should be making more. Now, this is where I think I've rubbed a couple of people the wrong way in the patent of life space. And and what better forum than this one to to explain my position?
00:22:26
Speaker
I believe that... we should be compensated for the work we do. Period. Absent. In good times and in bad. The same way, i would never compare someone who, ah like, doing something because it has to do with death does not mean you're taking advantage of someone. if Because where would the line go? Well, we can't charge people because this is for death. Okay, well, we can't charge people because this is because they're sick. Well, we can't charge people. It's like, where would it end
00:22:58
Speaker
yeah I like living in a society where we have social workers and grief counselors and you know crematories and vets who really specialize in coming to your house.
00:23:09
Speaker
If those people cannot afford the cost of doing business and to take care of themselves and to really take care of themselves, they should not be eating ramen every night to do these things for little.
00:23:23
Speaker
If we live in a world where those people aren't compensated, then we just won't have them. And that is not a world I want to live in. I am frustrated because lovebaxter.com is a free resource. It has thousands of guides, resources, people, memorial items, everything. Go to the search bar, search for anything you want. We've had 600 searches since yesterday on lovebaxter.com.
00:23:51
Speaker
And if something comes, if someone searches something that we don't have something for, we immediately go working on that content to make sure that doesn't happen again. But we have a directory with hundreds of people on it. And I've met a lot of them. They're all great. And most of them are barely making a living wage. You know, most of them, this is not their full time thing.
00:24:10
Speaker
But why don't we want to live in a world where it is a full time thing? Now, you think about all of us and I'm going to say this and it's going to sound kind of like, you know, some loser on CNBC saying this, but it's true. It's like you think about the money we waste on stuff.
00:24:28
Speaker
I know my household, we waste money on a lot of stupid shit. Also, we have like 20 streaming services, which keep raising the price every other month. um Yes. yeah I would much rather if someone was helping me after Baxter died, I would much rather that person gets paid well so they can continue helping me and continue helping others. So if I have to say, God, 50 bucks, $100 for minutes, what a croc Okay. Oh, cool. So if it's $25, then what?
00:24:57
Speaker
Then that person does eat. Then they're just not there. So I'm very big on people being compensated for their work. And I'm and i'm very big on, you know a free market where if if you're really good at what you do and you can command it, you should command more money.
00:25:10
Speaker
and And that's just how I, but most the people I meet in the end of life space have told me like, I'm struggling. work two, three jobs. This is what I do on the side. Well, don't know about anyone watching this. I don't want the person helping me at the end of my pet's life to also be thinking about their other job. I want them pretty focused on me, my family, my dogs, my cat. So i was talking to a ah pet death doula.
00:25:34
Speaker
And she's awesome. And she's so great. And i said, your website says you give your services away for free or barter. She said, yeah. I said, well, explain that to me. She said, yeah, someone did me a hat.
00:25:45
Speaker
I said, but how do you eat dinner? She's like, well, I live with a family and I take care of their family. And in in in trade, they do x y and Z for me. And I said, that's really nice, but like, I want you to build a business. Like I want you to be able to eat. i want you to be able to put money away and save for your future and save for retirement. You know, it's all fine and dandy, but you don't pay your bills with, with knitted hats. And by the way, while we're doing this, they're painting my house outside. So you all might hear some painting. i can, I don't know if you can hear it, but I can hear it. You might hear a dog bark here or there, but that's okay. Nothing stops this mission. Yeah.
00:26:24
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, I just I want I want people to make good money and I don't want people to make money. i want people to make good money and then in turn do great at work. Worth it.
Valuing Pet Loss Services
00:26:34
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and that is, you know, it's a conversation I've had across actually a few episodes on the podcast, but. And the doula, the death doula in the human space, it's it's the same thing that a lot of them offer it for free. It's voluntary. I mean, there was bigger topics we've talked about is in what exactly is a death doula and how I think they mark it is also an issue. But. um
00:26:57
Speaker
At the end of the day, people pay for what they value. And so and the conveniences we provide. And, you know, so sometimes like you might get a cleaner in your house and and that is a value to you because then you get three hours of your time back every week, whatever might be. Right. So we pay for things we value. I'm actually been trying to train funeral directors and thinking that way instead of trying to sell somebody a twenty thousand dollar casket that they don't value. Why don't you talk to them about what they do value? And you can actually.
00:27:26
Speaker
access their money that way or access what you know what they're willing to spend like i might have a chanel handbag but i might get like i mean actually this is the opposite for me that's what said but i might get like a spirit airlines no i'm probably going to do the debt delta airlines and have like a jc benny i'm like but i mean i know what you're saying look you know i'm i don't consider myself like a i mean materialistic person but i i have nice wallets and bags i have a nice watch i mean i believe i I believe in, I really like companies and I really like products that build with intention. You know, of my favorite, my wife's birthday was over the weekend. I got her a pair of Jacques-Marie Maje sunglasses.
00:28:05
Speaker
And these sunglasses are like $1,200. They're beautiful. They're hand built. Every detail is perfect. They're built in Japan. They give you this amazing box, this amazing thing.
00:28:18
Speaker
certificate that comes with them. i have a pair as well. I just, I mean, I like stuff like that and I would much rather pay a funeral director a little bit more money who is going to be really, really, really intentional about every conversation. And, you know, and if you want to sell me a $20,000 casket, then, then be ready to talk to me about the value of that casket and what makes it so great. And if not, know, like you said, you want more access to money than sell the other services And, you know, you can either be like every other funeral director or every other doula or every other grief counselor. You can say, this is how I do things differently. And I'll tell you all,
00:28:52
Speaker
We have a directory on lovebaxter.com. It's free to join lovebaxter.com slash join and grief counselors, veterinarians, pet cremation facilities, photographers who specialize in end of life photography. um You know, they're all on there. And the biggest feedback I give them is that they're about sections are not ever great and they're not really complete. And and a lot of the feedback I get from our readers is like they sit there and and in their entire bio it is.
00:29:19
Speaker
This is me. This is why I'm great. This is where I went to school. This is how long I've been doing this. This is this is me me, me, me, me. And you know what? They never say, hey, you reading it, your dog died. though The dog you love more than life itself died. And here's how I can help you. And here's what you'll get. And this is what we're doing for you. It's meaning me, me, me, me. And like that, I think, is where the death industry is failing is the death industry is like, no, no, no, we got to sell. So I'm going to tell you about me and how great I am. And they never stop and say, tell us about your mom.
00:29:52
Speaker
Tell us at your dog. Tell us about your cat. Hey, forget me for a second. I want to just sit down and talk to me about you. What would your mom want? What would your aunt want? And I and i just think this that disconnect is the biggest one I've seen in the death space. Yeah, I literally said those exact words. read Well, recently, Black in October at the National Funeral Directors Association at a panel where I was like, we've got to take out the rhetoric of it being a sales call or a sales anything. It is conversation between two human beings. And if I was to sit here and ask you no questions about yourself, Adam, this would be a very boring podcast. and say, this is a conversation. We are having a two-way conversation and so that and that's what it should be. And that's what it should be for pet loss and human loss. It's a conversation. You've got somebody who's going through the worst time of their life and we are supposed to be here to facilitate it. It's, yeah, it drives me nuts.
00:30:52
Speaker
But um it is very interesting because I do think people will pay for what they value. But I think in the few in the pet space, I think the trouble is that we have this expectation because you you touched on streaming services, right? And that they keep going up. I pay for too many services, but I don't want to cancel one in case a movie I really like comes out or whatever. I'm really the same. but i you Right. It's so annoying.
00:31:17
Speaker
But even just there and before you, I or before the last one before you, I went and I paid seven dollars for a ridiculously over sweet coffee because I wanted the sweet. and You know I wanted whatever was in it. I know you love your patches.
00:31:30
Speaker
Right. Like so we pay for we overpay for these things. So why is it when it comes to this space? And I personally think it's because the people working in it are like, well, this is all people are willing to pay. And they've already sort of accepted the boo-hoo. don't want to be like, but the boo-hoo. No, no, you're right. Yeah, they're they're afraid to have conversations about money in veterinary medicine because they've been yelled at.
00:31:54
Speaker
Yeah. And then the people, they don't value themselves. So if they don't value themselves, how the hell did do you expect me as the pet loss person value you? But then also the people who have lost the dogs or lost the cats or whatever it might be. We also don't necessarily know to pay these because it hasn't been standardized. Like, ah you know, even when I go into funeral homes talking about my celebrant work and I have been called, which makes me laugh, and oh and a high-end celebrant. It's like a high-end hooker. I'm like, okay, well, I'll take it. I mean, I wasn't going to say that, but okay. well
00:32:27
Speaker
I'd rather be that and value myself and value my team and value my services and the training that I give them than be like, oh yeah, we'll we'll take it for $300. And I think that's where the disconnect is in pet loss. We have paid so little for so long that now, yeah, if I go to a pet loss person and they're like, well, I'm going to charge you, I don't know, whatever, $1,000 to do X. yeah I might be like, mother of God, that's insane. So we have to change the rhetoric.
00:32:54
Speaker
Well, I have a couple thoughts on that. So, so go back. So like let's talk about like the way the pet world is different than human is, you know, humans. Like my wife just had to get her foot x-rayed and, you know, we have insurance.
00:33:07
Speaker
Saw her doctor, got her foot x-rayed, saw her doctor again. $55 out of pocket. And we're so used to that for ourselves. For pets, you know, if you have a young pet and you have insurance, it's still expensive and you're still paying a lot more than 55 bucks. But for for people that, you know, for people that don't have insurance or you haven't, you know, like my my dog upstairs will be 16 in a couple of weeks and, you know, any day could be her last, even though she's doing well. And ah But there's at this point, there's no insurance. Her insurance should be a thousand dollars a month. And she costs twelve to fifteen hundred dollars a month. You know, when it's time to say goodbye, you're coming out of pocket and God forbid your pet your pet was fighting cancer or something bad. It's Baxter was thirty five thousand dollars. And then by the time they're like, all right, we're going to, you know, come do in-home euthanasia and do cremation at some other thousand bucks. You kind of laugh. You're whatever. at this point, you know, but I mean, it's just different than, you know, with humans because for a lot of pet stuff, you're paying out of pocket. But I'm with you that, you know, i think we spend our pets whole lives buying them treats, buying them toys, buying them fancy leashes and bowls, you know, buying them special food, making sure they go to the vet, doing all these things, supplements, you know, it doesn't end. It's it's expensive.
00:34:18
Speaker
And then they die. and and then, you know, you have all these people are like, I'll just do it for free. I'm afraid of you. Like, no, how how about you put your a different foot forward and you say, hey, I've helped hundreds of families who are dealing with loss. And this is how I'm going to help you. And these are we're going to meet six times. It's to be one hundred dollars each time for six hundred dollars. This is how going to change your life and help you process and get through this. The number one search term, and I just pulled it up because I was looking at it. We've had over 600 searches since yesterday Backstreet.com.
00:34:50
Speaker
The number one topic people are searching right now is about children, helping children. So, you know, why, if your kids were dealing with the traumatic loss of a pet, ah why would you want the cheap version of that? When I was running my software company, we weren't the cheapest, but we were the best. And we definitely weren't the most expensive. I felt like we were, you know, in terms of being the best, we were 10 out of 10. In terms of cost, we were like 7 out of 10. It's pretty good. And I would get vets and they would email me and they would say, hey, I think we're going to leave. I'd say, why? You've been here three years. They said, yeah, this company just emailed me. You know, they said they're going to give me six months free and I love you, man. But like, we can't be free.
00:35:29
Speaker
And I would I would call them and I'd say, what is wrong with you? You can't be free. I said, so what if I called you? You were my vet. And I said, hey, someone just told me they're going to do Baxter surgery for free.
00:35:43
Speaker
Like, would that be smart? Or would you think to yourself, hmm, that shouldn't be a free thing. Maybe you shouldn't trust that. If someone walked up to you on the street was like, here, have dinner. It's free. I'm going to hand you this bag of food. You'd be like, yeah, I'm not eating that freak. But it's just so funny. But like, but we're supposed to think that the cheapest, freest, best, you know, versions of things are supposed to be the best. There's no way. so you know I would rather find someone who's going to truly help. And you know again, this isn't a, hey, don't have avocado toast and you'll be able to afford a house, you little millennial weirdo. It's not that, but it's like it's like, think about what's important to you. Think about what you do spend money on. We all spend money on stuff. I'm sitting here as a Dodger fan
00:36:27
Speaker
with a signed Yoshinobu Yamamoto baseball, my hero from Game 6 and Game 7. I loved him. I've never been so inspired by anything done in sports in my life, and I have this very expensive baseball on my desk. Now, to a lot of people, they'd think...
00:36:44
Speaker
This is stupid. I agree. it probably is stupid. It was very expensive. But I look at this and I think about what he did in Game 7 of the 2025 World Series, something I'd never seen in my life, ever.
00:36:56
Speaker
I've never seen anything like... I've never seen an athlete just say I will die before I lose. And he did that. And it inspired me so much. I have this on my desk and you know what? It's meaningful to me. So obviously not everything's important to everyone, but you know, I, I just, when your pet dies, it's an important, it's, you know, especially if it's a poppy, if it's a Baxter, do it
Conclusion and Invitation to Connect
00:37:20
Speaker
right. Don't do it cheapest. Yeah.
00:37:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's it. And you know what? that's That's a great way to end, I think. The episode, I mean, Adam, listen, everyone out there will watch this space. I know I will for sure. I'm very invested in this. And um yeah, just, you know, everyone check out Love Baxter. And, you know, you at least respect the story. yeah If there's any pet loss, if there's any pet people out there, they're going to resonate with this story 150 million percent. so Contact to Adam if you've got any questions or you know, whether it's about the website or just in general. Yeah, I'm LinkedIn. You can find me, Adam Greenbaum. You know, lovebaxter.com. We're here. So I'd love i love to chat. him I'm still learning about the death space and I'm very interested in it. I think it could use a lot of work on human and pet side. Yeah.
00:38:06
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you.