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A Jewish Wedding Story - Erin and John image

A Jewish Wedding Story - Erin and John

S1 E11 · Your Jewish Wedding
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55 Plays1 year ago

The FIRST episode in our "A Jewish Wedding Story" series! 

I sat down with my neighbor and friend Erin to chat about her interfaith-Jewish backyard wedding. Officiated by her husband John's brother, it was a beautiful mix of their values and beliefs, nestled within layers of Jewish wedding traditions. 

During our chat, we covered: 

- Jewish mom guilt!

- Trying to find a rabbi!

- The Jewish stuff Erin's non-Jewish husband John insisted on having!

- Conversion? 

- Their Jewish household, 10 years later

Thank you so much, Erin? 

Would you like to tell me about YOUR Jewish or Jewish-interfaith wedding? Send me an email at [email protected] !

Want to work with me (Rabbi LeighAnn) on your wedding? 

You can reach me any time at www.yourohiorabbi.com. 

Fill out the contact form there if you'd like to work with me on your wedding.

IG: @yourohiorabbi

Send questions for me to answer on this podcast to:

[email protected]

Hope to see you next time! Remember - there is ALWAYS more learning to do!

<3 Rabbi LeighAnn

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Transcript

Finding Your Wedding Style

00:00:00
Speaker
And I think that's what I want people to walk away from is if you're going to have a wedding, if you're going to have a milestone in your life and you are Jewish, or you have any connection to any religion, but the rules are telling you no, no, no, no. Find a way. Find a way that'll work for you because don't deny that part of you. If I could do it over again without the Jewish guilt of my mother, probably would have gone to Hawaii, gotten married, on a cliff.
00:00:25
Speaker
probably still have a hoopa and a yarmulke, and we would have a katuba, but it would just be him and I, and have a big party.

Rabbi Leanne's Guidance

00:00:33
Speaker
Are you planning a Jewish or interfaith wedding? Are you lost on where to even begin planning the ceremony, let alone finding a rabbi to help you? Well, it doesn't matter whether one of you is Jewish or you're both Jewish. You deserve a guide. So take a deep breath. I promise it will all be okay. Welcome to your Jewish wedding with Rabbi Leanne. Here, I can be everyone's rabbi,
00:01:03
Speaker
Yours too. My guests and I will share everything we know to help make your Jewish or interfaith wedding full of tradition and perfectly yours.

Sentimental Reflections and TV Influences

00:01:29
Speaker
Thanks for coming over. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. I feel like being in your house is like full circle like I was saying before because I would come over here years ago for Rosh Hashanah. Rosh Hashanah is coming up.
00:01:43
Speaker
So it's like, here we go. I know. It's so nice. And I believe we were talking about how we don't really do that anymore because like the kids are weird and they need us more. Yes. But one day again. That'd be awesome. One day we will. What else are we going to do with ourselves when they leave the house? You said take it out, right? I didn't even think about what I'm going to do in an hour from now.
00:02:06
Speaker
Aaron and I met a long time ago. And do you remember, you're only a little bit younger than me, I think. So do you remember when TLC had that show, A Wedding Story? Yes. And it would be like with the girl with like, you know, she'd do all her planning and they'd spend three minutes like talking about her flowers. And did I loved it? Do you love it? Yeah, I was obsessed. And then there was another one. Is this the same one where they picked three weddings?
00:02:30
Speaker
There was another one. That was an evolution. Okay. Because you're younger than I am. You probably come. I saw both. Yeah. And there was a baby story too and you would have, you watched the lady. Yes. I mean, there were so, thank you TLC for the amazing reality TV show that I got to watch over the year. So I thought, so I'm doing this, your Jewish wedding podcast.
00:02:49
Speaker
And the episodes are turning into like deep dive information on like small topics. But I thought that, you know, I remembered being so in love with being able to like get a window into everybody's wedding. And then, you know, part of what I'm explaining on the podcast is how everybody's Jewish wedding is so different. And that's, we value that actually.
00:03:09
Speaker
So I thought I'd just ask people who had a Jewish wedding about to tell me about their

Deciding to Marry and Wedding Plans

00:03:13
Speaker
Jewish wedding. I love this. And I'm so glad because I did not have a traditional Jewish wedding. Yeah. So my husband now, John and I, we have been together for 20 years.
00:03:26
Speaker
10 of those years, I think next year, I'm so bad with numbers and dates and anniversaries. Oh, I'm terrible. That I think maybe next year might be like our 10 year anniversary with this year. I don't know. I'm not big on anniversaries. I'm like, we've been together a long time. You were engaged a long time before you were together before. Yes. So I met John. We were friends and we started dating and I am Jewish. He is not.
00:03:53
Speaker
Um, we started dating and we were together for 10 years before we got married. And we only got married because we thought it would be easier legally to have children. But he came from a family where his parents were divorced and that was a difficult divorce to watch. And I came from a family where
00:04:16
Speaker
I felt that there were times that my parents probably should have been divorced. And those times were probably like 80 or 90% of the time, to be honest. And I knew for myself that if I was going to get married, like I respected the Institute of Marriage so much that I was going to wait. I was going to really find the right person to be married to, or I wasn't going to be married at all.
00:04:39
Speaker
And so John and I were dating and as we got closer to the eight year, nine year mark, I wanted to have children and we did some research and his parents are lawyers and they said, legally, it's just gonna be easier for you if you guys get married to have kids. So we were like, okay, let's do that. Because we knew we were gonna be together with a piece of paper or without.
00:05:01
Speaker
Right. At this point, the breakup would be just as bad whether you were married or not. Yeah, exactly. And that was one of the things he was worried about in the first place. Yes. So he proposes. We were engaged for a year and a half. It was a little complicated because my mom got really sick during that time.
00:05:19
Speaker
so i would say like my idea of my wedding definitely drastically changed because it had to become smaller more intimate um and and and initially i wanted to elope and then do a honeymoon and go to hawaii for two weeks and then
00:05:35
Speaker
my mom who was sick and the Jewish guilt was like I want to be alive to see at least one of my children get married and then you feel the gut punch and you're like I was just going to ask why you didn't just sign the paper then um so it was Marilyn Marilyn was the one who really and you know when your mom's laying there paralyzed having a low quality of life how do you say no
00:05:56
Speaker
Yes.

Jewish Traditions in Weddings

00:05:58
Speaker
Yes. So John and I said, let's do it. Let's get married. We'll get married in our backyard. And then, you know, you get, you start thinking about the dress and the flowers and this, and then you're like, well, there's a ceremony part of this.
00:06:14
Speaker
Oh, okay. We're going to actually get married in front of people and all the things. Because we thought about just doing a party and signing the paper. Sure. But then I was like, you know, we've been together for 10 years. If we're going to celebrate this with people and my mom's going to be there, let's just invite everybody, our intimate friends and family. Did you feel like you would have to explain why you hadn't had the ceremony if you had just done that?
00:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, maybe. I'm trying to think about it. Yeah, and I don't know. And then I was like, well, I want to wear a wedding dress.
00:06:47
Speaker
I didn't want to see that the part that came out like well, I don't want to just wear it to a party on the way to an actual wedding. So we decided to do a backyard wedding and then the questions came up will who's going to marry us and what's the ceremony going to be like. And at that time, you know, I had asked John since the beginning of our relationship would you ever convert to Judaism and he said I'm always open. What made you ask that?
00:07:13
Speaker
My parents, I didn't care. I never cared. I kind of knew from a very early age that I think my partner that I was gonna choose was not gonna be Jewish. I don't know, I just felt that. And I wasn't surprised when I married someone. You had like a little vision of your future and saw yourself. Yeah, I just said, I just don't see it with a Jewish man. I don't know what that means. It doesn't really have to mean anything. I just don't see it.
00:07:43
Speaker
So we got married. So we're planning our wedding and we're talking about it. And I said, well, this you can convert any time you want if you want to. But this this is kind of the time. Do you want to convert? And we had a long conversation and he said, no. And the reason why was because he didn't feel 100 percent Jewish. He said,
00:08:05
Speaker
i feel jewish i feel like i have a jewish life with you and i love that but i think as a respect to the religion i'm not going to do it because that's what i'm supposed to do you said you told him like this is the time what made you say that um i think that was just like
00:08:24
Speaker
traditional thinking, like most people, my friends that were in either interfaith marriages at the time or someone, they were getting married, someone was converting to something. So I think it was just like, this is what people are doing, this is the trend, so we should have this conversation. And a lot of my friends did marry non-Jewish guys and they did kimber.
00:08:46
Speaker
before the wedding. Before the wedding. Oh, got it. Okay. So to you, it was, it was looking kind of like a normal thing. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, well, maybe he'll do it. And he was like, no, I respect the religion too much to come in and dilute it. And I love and respect my husband for it because he will never go into something if he's not a hundred percent. And I think that is the most, that's, that's a beautiful gift is honoring your truth.
00:09:12
Speaker
and accepting whatever consequences come from that, because I do think some people do convert for whatever reasons, multiple reasons, but I think sometimes it's based off of pressure. Sure. Not to say that they can't have a good outcome, but that's not something that your husband would ever even... I would only want him to do it if he felt a spiritual calling for himself. Not for me, not for our children, because he does have a Jewish life with us.
00:09:39
Speaker
And that's not part of his personality to do something like that. He wouldn't feel that had integrity. Yeah. Yeah. So I really respected that. My dad respected that. My mom took a little time to respect that. I think the follow-up question was, where are you going to raise the kids Jewish? And I was like, we are going to raise the kids with a Jewish life. Yes. I can't believe that was the second question. Well, we all know to a degree, most of us, that
00:10:09
Speaker
It's important that we carry on the traditions and that the Jewish people want it to stay alive. And I want Judaism to stay alive. And I want it to thrive for the people that it speaks to and it calls for. And I do feel
00:10:28
Speaker
And this is a whole other conversation, but like when I say I'm Jewish, I feel Jewish culturally more than religiously. I feel Jewish culturally and spiritually, if that makes sense, but not necessarily religiously. And that doesn't mean it can't change or it won't change, but that's just how it speaks to me in this present time. This is something I've been trying to communicate actually on the podcast because I think it's people who
00:10:53
Speaker
who are American, like the dominant religion is like Christianity and it's based on like a set of beliefs. Yeah. And we just don't fuss ourselves with what other people believe very much. Or even with, you know, like you just said, right? Yeah, I think the beauty of Judaism is you get to kind of pick your relationship with it.

Creating a Blended Ceremony

00:11:12
Speaker
And that's the beauty of anything if you allow it. But you should pick how Judaism, if you are Jewish or you want to be Jewish, how it can benefit you, how it can work for you, so to speak. So anyways, we get to the wedding. He decides not to convert. But I didn't want to have a non-religious wedding because I said, I am Jewish.
00:11:34
Speaker
there are Jewish, I've envisioned a Jewish wedding to some degree. So his brother is ordained. He actually went to like a seminary school in Boston. And it was his first Jewish wedding. That's a fancy ordination. Yeah. Wow. And he doesn't even do, he's like a rowing coach. He doesn't even like do anything with it, but he did it. So how did you approach him? I said, yo Drew, you want to marry us?
00:12:04
Speaker
You don't have to buy us a wedding gift or you can charge and I'll pay you. And he's like, no, it's cool. And did he assume that you would want, like, did he jump in right away asking like how juvie is this going to be? No, he just said, what do you want? And I said, we want it to be quick. We want it to be short and sweet. And we want it to be representative of both John and I. So.
00:12:30
Speaker
John being Jewish, what he wanted to add was yarmulkes. He wanted a hupa.
00:12:40
Speaker
and the breaking of the glass. And I wanted all those things. And then one thing he didn't know about, but I wanted was a katuba. So we have that in our bedroom. So John had a Jewish list for your ceremony that was longer than your Jewish list for the ceremony. And I'm telling you, just because of his upbringing, he grew up
00:13:01
Speaker
in a Christian home when he was growing up. And obviously, Old Testament, Sunday school, it's so bad. People ask me questions, I'm like, John? Old Testament? I don't know. He knows his Bible stories. I mean, he knows Bible stories. He would have been a plus plus student at Hebrew school, all the things.
00:13:22
Speaker
So, and then we talked about other things that were not Jewish that we wanted. He didn't want any Christian elements. He didn't want Jesus's name in there or anything like that. So it was more like Jewish and non-secular. Like Jewish plus non-secular equals Aaron and John's wedding. And it was beautiful because it was us and it was intimate. And it was just, it was a really special day. Now, if I could do it over again without the Jewish guilt of my mother,
00:13:52
Speaker
probably would have gone to Hawaii, gotten married on a cliff, probably still have a hoopa and a yarmulke and we would have a katuba but it would just be him and I and have a big party. But yeah that was our wedding and it was fantastic and it was beautiful and I loved every minute of it. I was Maryland happy with it.
00:14:14
Speaker
I think so, as happy as she could be, whatever that looked like. Happiness was a little hard for her to find at times, but she figured it out. Was there any Hebrew? Do you remember? What's your brother-in-law's name? Drew? Drew. Drew, yeah. I don't think so. I think we had, oh gosh, wow. You think back 10 years and you're like, I can't remember, I can barely remember the details. No.
00:14:45
Speaker
We might have said one or two prayers, but not in Hebrew, in English. So Drew kind of took the helm at that point. Yes. And I assumed in his research. It seems like he's a research kind of guy. Yes, yes, yes. And he took care of everything and we added and we just kind of designed our own ceremony and it was
00:15:02
Speaker
15 minutes. I think most people came up to us and they said, that was the most beautiful wedding. And I said, what was so beautiful about it? They're like, it was so short. And I was like, that's amazing. That's awesome. OK. That's amazing. Yeah. Jewish weddings can be very fast. Yeah. I think I've done a seven minute one before. That's amazing. Yeah. That's my style. Like, let's get down to the connection, the laughing, the dancing, the eating, like,
00:15:26
Speaker
I mean, I also, as I get older, though, I do appreciate more of the ceremony stuff. Yeah. But the longest wedding I ever went to was a Greek Orthodox. Oh, holy moly. I would like to see that. Oh, my God. I'm sure you could call and just be like, can I? I'm friends with Father Demetrius because we did a little things together. But so I wanted to ask, you wanted a katuba and that was important to you. Why? What was do you remember why that was so important to you? I felt
00:15:58
Speaker
like it was a spiritual contract. And I feel like we're making a legal contract, and then there should also be a spiritual contract. Even though I think John and I are always on a spiritual journey, we're always trying to figure out our meaning, our purpose, like why we're here, who is, or what is the higher power, all the things that we have all these questions we don't know as human beings,
00:16:28
Speaker
And I just, I wanted it to be there because I am Jewish and he signed it and he had no problem. Now is this kosher? No, it's one you got offline. What do you mean by kosher? I mean like, I got a whole like, I had a friend who I will not name who was very helpful in pointing out all the things of why my wedding wasn't a Jewish wedding.
00:16:55
Speaker
And that was hurtful. That was not fun to have someone constantly critique and say that my wedding was less Jewish than hers because of X and Y and Z and I let her have it because those are her feelings and her thoughts. They're not mine.
00:17:16
Speaker
but I felt like mine was just as Jewish and ever as anyone's because it meant my needs as a Jewish person and my level of, and my relationship with Judaism.

Respecting Spiritual Paths

00:17:28
Speaker
It should reflect that.
00:17:31
Speaker
grown into your Judaism and learned enough to know that that's not a very accurate way to play it even. No, it's not a helpful, it's not necessary, it's not a competition. Your spirituality is a personal relationship with you and yourself and anything that you feel connected to that will give you meaning and purpose. And your katuba is
00:17:57
Speaker
your kudjuba, not the Jewish people's kudjuba. It's not God's kudjuba. It's between you and God. And it sounds like you always have a bedroom. And I will say, you know,
00:18:10
Speaker
It's a spiritual contract between him and I that no matter where we are at our spiritual journeys individually, in our marriage, we will respect that. So we've always talked about the people that later in life, they get more religious and the one person doesn't. It's like, how can we support each other?
00:18:30
Speaker
our spiritual journeys. And for him, he loved that we could have that together, whether it had Jewish flavor, English flavor, Christian, whatever that is for anybody. I mean, it's a Jewish tradition that you were able to apply to something that was very important to you in your relationship, and that's incredible. And you just said something. The thing that I feel so connected to about Judaism is the level of commitment to all the traditions that are available to you.
00:18:59
Speaker
You know, Judaism has a lot of traditions that you can apply. You can try to do all of them. You could do some of them. You could do none of them. But you find the ones that really speak to you and make you...
00:19:10
Speaker
make you feel like a better person, a happier person, a more grounded, peaceful person. And so I think that was the takeaway for us. And so finding those elements in our wedding that reflected that of us, that it would bring calm and peace and love and integrity, all the things that are important to John and I.
00:19:40
Speaker
I'm loving that the Chippah was so important to John. Yeah. I'm just so entertained by this. I've never heard this story. Yeah. Well, he just, I mean, it wasn't like, I think it was just because he knew that I wanted it. Oh, I see. Like he would have gotten married in a Costco. Yeah. Do you think he like envisioned, you can have a Chippah in a Costco. Yeah, you could. They should sell those Costco. There you go. Do you think that like he envisioned, like he thought to himself, what's a Jewish wedding? And then just sort of like applied that onto his list?
00:20:09
Speaker
I'm trying to think if he was at any Jewish weddings before ours. And I think there was maybe... No. I don't think he was at a Jewish wedding. I think his first Jewish wedding was our wedding. That's amazing. Tell me about your chuppah. Was there anything special? Did you build it? Was there anything sentimental? We had our florid. I had a same-day wedding planner.
00:20:38
Speaker
kind of person. She helped me pick out some mercury glass, the flowers, and what she did was she did have what she called a wedding canopy. Amazing. And I said, can we make this into a hope? And she goes, I have no idea how to do this, but thank you. Let's figure it out because I'm sure I will run into this. And I would love to be able to help
00:21:02
Speaker
Jewish people have a hupa at their wedding. True spirit of a pro. Yeah. Love it. So it was just this beautiful like iron frame canopy thing and we draped just sheer fabric over cream fabric and we put some really delicate flowers and it was just very simple. And we just felt like it was
00:21:25
Speaker
It just separated him and I from everybody else. It was just, it was about us and our relationship and our future, our past, our present, our future, all the things. So it was our little home on our day of our wedding. So it was really special. I love this because you, I don't know if you studied about this at all, but you've literally just made like the three most common reasons that

Jewish Identity Beyond Observance

00:21:50
Speaker
like scholars say. Okay, what are those? In the conversation, I mean it represents the home. Yeah. And it creates a bubble that it's just you two and allows you to focus on one another while still being supported by people on all sides. And I'm sure I've picked that up over the years, Gordon. It's a very Jewish spirit. But that's what I'm saying, like I'm not a religious, like I don't, if you ask me anything from Hebrew school, I don't remember.
00:22:13
Speaker
It is my, I can read Hebrew, is it great? No. Do I understand Hebrew? No. Do I keep kosher? No. But do I have a Jewish spirit? Absolutely. And I know you have a very Jewish house. Yes. And I also know that, or I think I know that John loves that. Oh my gosh. Like he loves that about your family, that it's a Jewish family. Yes. And I think for us it's about being Jewish is about a spirit.
00:22:40
Speaker
It's about aliveness, like we're alive. Like the Jewish people have suffered for years and years and years. And they suffered so we can be alive today. And I think however you wanna live, I'm like gonna cry, I don't know why I'm so emotional about this, but however you wanna live the best version of your life, take elements of Judaism if that speaks to you or calls to you or you were brought up with it and you use that. It's for you. It's to keep you alive and well.
00:23:10
Speaker
Like, you know, I'm a health and wellness coach. And so when I'm working with my clients, spirituality, religion, it plays a huge part in our overall wellness. Like you said, it's about finding peace. Yes. Like having that peace. And if Judaism or any other religion or anything that makes you
00:23:35
Speaker
impacts your spirituality, optimizes your spirituality, go for it. I think sometimes religion puts too many rules and it can deter us from the beauty of what that religion will actually give us, which is the spirituality part of it. Absolutely.
00:24:04
Speaker
So do you remember if there were any, did you contribute any readings or explanations, things that you wanted people to hear at your ceremony? I remember, yes, I can't exactly remember what they were. The one thing I do remember is I don't know why I feel this way.
00:24:24
Speaker
But I was like very concerned that if John could not break the glass, it would be bad luck. I think it was like on the sex in the city when Charlotte married. I don't think he broke it the first time and he had to keep breaking it. And remember she was about perfect wedding and her with her first husband, Troy or whatever his name was. Everything was perfect. She was very about Jewish stuff too. So she probably wanted to make sure it was it was right. Like extra. Yes.
00:24:49
Speaker
So I remember in her first wedding, everything was perfect. It was the most magical day, but the marriage was crap. Then I forget his name.
00:24:57
Speaker
Was it Harry? Harry, yeah. I was thinking Henry. Harry, I don't know. Harry, when she married Harry, the wedding day was a disaster. Like she spilled wine on her dress. He went to go break the glass and he couldn't break it. And she's like, and everyone's gasping because it's in a synagogue nightmare. And it's like, it's bad luck. She thinks it's bad luck. The marriage June ends up being the happiest marriage of her life. You know, but yeah, they just had a bat mitzvah mazel tov.
00:25:22
Speaker
I didn't watch this. But I didn't either. But I know that that happened. Right? It has to be going OK. It's got to be going good. They've survived this long. But yeah. And the best part, she converted. She became even more Jewish. I know. That was a very sweet episode. I remember that. She had a very deep connection to it. Yes. And so I remember being worried. I was like, John, you need to practice breaking glass. Did you? I don't think he did. But he did break the glass. OK. I was very nervous about that. How did you find the glass?
00:25:53
Speaker
I think Drew brought it. I don't remember. Drew is the unsung hero of your Jewish wedding story. Yes, he brought it. Yeah, we had that. Did we do a kiddush? I don't know. Do you have any stuff from your wedding that you still use or that became part of your family's stuff?
00:26:15
Speaker
Well, we, in our bedroom, on our wall, we have our gatuba. And then on each side of our nightstands, I had my mom's best friend calligraphy our vows to each other. So I have his vows on my side that I can read, and he has my vows. Wow. What an incredible, intentional thing. Yeah. And obviously, your rings. And our rings. Well, ring-a. My husband, God bless his soul, has lost two wedding rings.
00:26:45
Speaker
And I finally told him, I said, we're not buying a third. It's fine. You don't go out of the house. You work from home. You go to the gym. It's fine. I don't need you to wear a ring. You're home every day in our house. Like, I'm not worried at all. You don't need to tell people you're married. I trust you. My husband hasn't worn his.
00:27:01
Speaker
for like over a decade. I think it's sexy when he wore it like I don't know I would look down at it and smile and I just thought it was like I don't know I've been with my husband since I was 20 so it's like it was a symbol of him like becoming a man and yeah like I don't know it's a little bit of a turn on but then he
00:27:20
Speaker
What he lost it, he lost the first one on vacation in the ocean. It just like came off. At least it went back to the earth. Oops. God bless. A little Nemo swimming around with a gold ring or it's in a shark's belly and then are on the bottom of the ocean.
00:27:38
Speaker
Oh, and then he jammed his finger in basketball and it swelled up and they had to, our friend who's a firefighter had to come over our house with a cutter and cut it off because his finger was turning black. So he does, in his defense, he does have the broken pieces. Well, that's great. And he said, I'm going to, I'm just going to, we're going to fix this. I'll take it to a, I said, honey, we're not going to do any of that. We'll just explain it like the broken. Yes. So I think we'll do something with the ring. Like, like I'll do something with it at some point.
00:28:07
Speaker
When you get a minute to do creative things. Yeah. Which is never. But I love my ring. My ring means a lot to me because this is the ring that I knew that when I was like a little girl I wanted to move my wedding ring because this used to be an earring.

Symbolic Wedding Elements

00:28:27
Speaker
The setting used to be my mom's earring and in the middle was an orange stone like a towpath.
00:28:33
Speaker
And I loved these earrings so much and she had lost one of them. And so she kept one of the earrings and she was going to just like turn it into a necklace. And I said, Mom, I love this so much. Will you save this for me? I think I was like eight or nine. I said, I want this to be my wedding ring. I'm going to take a picture of it right now to put in the show notes so people can see.
00:28:52
Speaker
because it is just the coolest thing. I love this. Thank you. So she saved it for me. And we took out the topaz and we put a stone in there, a diamond, and we made a little band. He owes me a third band at some point. Oh, it'll happen. Or I'll owe myself. I might do it for myself. I might not even ask him. Just be like, you know what? Good for you for being married and happy and just being present. Like, you don't need him to give you anything. You give it to yourself. Yes.
00:29:20
Speaker
There we go. I'm going to give it to myself and surprise him. They're like, look what I did for myself. Congratulations on giving me the sense of autonomy and comfort. Yeah. Can you just pay the bill? You should pay the credit card bill. It'll be fine. And he will. And he will. And he will. He'll do anything you say. I know that about him. You know what? My favorite thing he ever says, he says a lot of things I love.
00:29:40
Speaker
But he always tells people, like when I go off and do this, like, for example, next week, I'm about to go to Olympic National Park and a couple of times a year I go and travel. And I'll take my daughter, Gwen, because it's our special trip. We'll go with my sister-in-law. My mother and father-in-law sometimes comes. We visit my best friend who travels a lot.
00:29:58
Speaker
Anyways, people always say to him, like my dad also likes to give him shit and say, you let Aaron go or you're fine with Aaron doing this, you're fine with doing that. And people, that's just like a theme in our relationship that other people like to insert on us. And John for the past 20 years has been saying the same thing. He goes, I am not in the business of telling Aaron no.
00:30:21
Speaker
And I'm like, this is why I love this man. Well, and I think you're probably not in the business of telling him either, because you know that if you were to ask of something from each other that would be a sacrifice for the other one, you're going to not take it lightly. It's going to be a serious thing that you're going to ask of one another. When we, when we ask things, it's because it really
00:30:43
Speaker
It's important to us. You really need it. And it might not be like a big deal, like a trip. I have a lot of neuroses, I'm not gonna lie. So when my kids sit around the table, we have dinner at our table every night, and people don't push in their chairs, it makes me crazy. It makes me crazy. And my husband is learning to push in his chair. Listen, it could be as stupid as that, but when I ask him, I'm like, it just, it makes me feel heard and validated.
00:31:09
Speaker
because it's something that I can't explain, but when I see chairs not in my table pushed in, it makes me crazy. And I feel like I have to do it. So just be nice. Well, in that acceptance of you. Yes. That that's just part of who you are. And that that's that's the entire reason we're going to do. Yes. Is because he loves you. Yes. And he loves who you are. And he asked plenty of me, too. Oh, sure. And I do the same. And we just we try to we try to validate each other. We try to help each other. We
00:31:39
Speaker
We just are, you know, it's really easy to feel like things and people are coming against you, but it's important for me in my own home for it to be safe with the people in there that we all feel like we have each other's backs, that we'll support each other. If you can't be good to your family, who can you be good to? And we don't have to understand it.

Teaching Respect and Personal Choices

00:31:59
Speaker
That's one of the things that we're trying to instill in our children is you don't have to understand it.
00:32:04
Speaker
But you do have to respect it to some degree and help the other person in some way, shape or form and help yourself. So your relationship in that sense can only be a good example for your kids. Yeah. Can I ask you one more question? Ask me all the questions. Did you think about looking for a rabbi? I did. I actually did look for rabbis. You looked for... See, you left that person.
00:32:34
Speaker
I did. I wanted to make sure we got there. Thank you, the most important. I went to my rabbi, and I said, would you marry us? Your childhood rabbi? No. My childhood rabbi had retired, but it was still a rabbi at the synagogue. OK. And he said, I cannot do that if he doesn't convert. And I said, OK. What was your answer? And that was it. Listen, I don't. I respect people's choices.
00:33:04
Speaker
I think it's a disservice, in my opinion, to deny someone of a Jewish wedding. But I do understand his reasonings. I think he's a great man, a great rabbi, and I still have the utmost respect for him. But if I knew what you were doing,
00:33:31
Speaker
If I knew you and you were doing what you're doing now, when we were getting married, I would
00:33:39
Speaker
have had you and drew i think john wanted drew to be there because it was his brother sweet but even if it was like you know would you consult him would you help him even if he let it would you help him create a jewish ceremony just put a little jewish spark on it right put that jewish glitter america yeah we've got here so did the rabbi that you spoke with did he
00:34:02
Speaker
say anything else? Like, did he offer to consult? Did he offer boards of offers? No. I'm assuming it's a man. Yeah, it's a man. And he said he would have to convert. And to tell you the truth, we actually left the synagogue because
00:34:19
Speaker
He told us, I said, you know, John's not planning on converting. How supportive are you guys going to be of our family? How are you going to be supportive of braces and this and stuff? And they said, yes. So we had our son's brace at the temple. He came and did our daughter's naming. So he was very supportive in other ways to our children.
00:34:48
Speaker
based off the fact that they were Jewish because they came out of my womb, which is Jewish. And he gave you that explanation? That was the explanation. Oh, wow. But if it was the opposite, he would not be able to facilitate those ceremonies under Jewish law. And so we took advantage of it and we had him there for the kids stuff. But we, you know, I asked him, you know, if we decide to get our kids bar and bat mitzvah at the shul, could my husband go on the bimah?
00:35:17
Speaker
And he said, you know, it's going to cause a lot of maybe talk, but your third generation, I know you, I know your family. So yes, but we could not give him an Aaliyah and he could not read from the tour and certain things. And I was okay with that because John didn't really care. John's not fixing to do Aaliyah anyway. John's not like, yeah. He's like, I don't want to do that. My dad's like, you don't want to do that. And I'm like, thanks, dad. Thanks for that commentary.
00:35:43
Speaker
It just showed us that we don't really feel connected to, like we said, the religious part. So this might be interesting. So we've been, my daughter's coming of age. She's in fourth grade. Oh my gosh, she sure is. Yeah. And so we've talked about,
00:36:01
Speaker
how we want to handle bar and bat mitzvahs and certain things. And what we've decided is that I was not given a choice as a child. I was told, you're going to have a bat mitzvah. And I'm grateful I did. And I'm grateful I had a Jewish upbringing.
00:36:17
Speaker
But I had a lot of concerns about Judaism as a child that I didn't feel like were fully addressed. And that always didn't sit well with me. But so we decided that for instead of doing a bar and bat mitzvah, what we're going to do is we're going to take our kids to Israel for two to three weeks. We're going to show them
00:36:35
Speaker
that we're going to show them Israel. We're going to show them what Judaism looks like outside of our home, the religion, just all the beautiful parts and let them decide. So you're going to mark, you're going to mark her coming of age in some way. Yes, but not the traditional from the Torah. Yes, because we don't do things traditionally, but we've always told her and my son, you are Jewish.
00:37:01
Speaker
There's no denying that. I like that your Jewish family values is like, it's going to be Jewish, but not traditionally. Yeah, it's not. It's still got that, you're going to do this aspect. But there's some flexibility. And I've always told my kids, you can deny your Judaism. It's still there. It's always an invitation if you always want it. And at whatever degree, it's always there for you. It's a gift that was given to you.
00:37:27
Speaker
from generations and generations and many people sacrificed it, be cut for you. But that is not a reason for you to do it out of guilt. It's a reason for you to explore it and give it your best.
00:37:41
Speaker
honest, hard, good look at it when you're an adult. And you can really decide does this fit with my values or how could it fit with my values and my integrity and how I live my life. So I can honor the religion. Yeah. And I think and I hope that synagogues are going to start getting creative about ways to
00:38:00
Speaker
embrace and hold families that are like you. So if your daughter were to say, I really loved that trip to Israel, I feel really Jewish in my kishkas, and I feel like I want to market in some way like in the community, then there would be a synagogue, for example, that would be like,
00:38:17
Speaker
We'd love to invite you to have a first Aliyah and to buy everyone bagels. Yeah. You know, whatever it is. And it's not, we, if you did bar mitzvahs, bar bat mitzvahs at the time, we would, we would address, we would talk to you or we would talk to someone else. John and I, yeah, we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. We'll find somebody. But the point is, is that
00:38:37
Speaker
Sometimes your relationship is non-traditional, and that doesn't mean you have to give up on it completely. And I think that's what I want people to walk away from is if you're going to have a wedding, if you're going to have a milestone in your life and you are Jewish, or you have any connection to any religion, but the rules are telling you no, no, no, no. Find a way.
00:38:55
Speaker
Find a way it'll work for you because don't deny that part of you. It actually makes you, maybe perhaps makes you engage with it more. Yeah. That determination. Yeah. Okay, now we've got to step up and figure this out. Yeah. So tell us, did John convert? No. No. Does he have plans too? No.
00:39:13
Speaker
Does he, in fact, bake challah for your entire household? Yes. Well, Rosh Hashanah's coming up, so we were talking. I already knew this. I'm making lots of all soup, which we'll have to talk about if you need any. I'm making soup, so let me know. Make soup tomorrow. He's going to do the challah. And then we're going to, we like to bake desserts together. It's kind of our time in the kitchen together. So we're going to make, we just found, my mom has a great coffee cake recipe, but I found an apple coffee cake recipe. So I'm going to try that.
00:39:42
Speaker
Okay, maybe you can add apples to Marilyn's recipe. I could. Well, because her cake does call for sour cream and I think I could just add the apples because I was comparing the recipes and they're very similar. Yeah. We're talking about Marilyn as though she's alive. She is. She's, she's in this, I can feel her. She, well, she is, she has passed away. So she's a blessed memory, but, and I never met her, but I feel as though I have met her.
00:40:07
Speaker
because I have heard so many stories from Erin and Erin and I for several years had a tradition where I would make the matzo balls and Erin would make Marilyn soup, her mother's soup, and we would do a switcheroo. You had her pot. Yeah, with her pot.
00:40:25
Speaker
Oh, so she's definitely in your house. Once she enters, she doesn't leave. In fact, she managed to attend two Rosh Hashanah dinners that year. And that is the magic of always keeping someone's memory alive. And that's the magic of traditions, too.
00:40:41
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I love about Judaism is the traditions and it makes me think of her and just all their family members that I've lost and just like my upbringing and how Judaism has just played such an important role in my life and it's going to play an important role some way somehow in my kids.

Jewish Traditions and Family Memories

00:40:58
Speaker
and in our marriage and all of it. What a beautiful story. Well, thanks for having me on this show. Thanks for telling me about your Jewish wedding. And if anybody would like John's holler recipe or Marilyn's... Yeah, hit me up. Or Marilyn's chicken soup recipe, or I don't know how guarded it is, but, you know, let us know.
00:41:15
Speaker
Yes. And as a health and wellness coach, I want to say eat all the food. As Jewish people, food is important to us. Eat all the food. Let it nourish your body. Let you enjoy it. Get pleasure from it. Enjoy it. It's such a big part of our lifestyle and our spirituality and our religion. So don't deprive yourself of anything. If you say no carbs on Rosh Hashanah, I'm going to come find you.
00:41:40
Speaker
Thank you so much for that. So if anybody in the Columbus, Ohio area would like to spend more time with your
00:41:49
Speaker
loving, mothering, yenta, encouraging, embracing of Judaism and spirituality and interfaith relationships, how can they find you? Yes. So you can find me, I have a website, www.thegrowwellcoach.com and I'll send you all this so you can put in your show notes. I'm heavy on Instagram at growwellcoaching, so you can slide into my DM, shoot me a message, whatever you want to do, say, hey, happy Rosh Hashanah, happy New Year.
00:42:19
Speaker
Um, email me and yeah, even if you're not in the Columbus, Ohio area. Oh, good. Good. Yeah. Come find me. You can still get the, you can get the air in goodness. Yeah. Even if you're not in person. Yes. But I have to tell, this is really good. It's been a long time since we've sat down together. I know. We should do this more. I feel like we should do like coffee talk.
00:42:37
Speaker
I really, well, I'm sure that everybody would love to hear from you again. Well, I would love to come on. Well, you make this so fun and easy. And this feels very, like I said, from the minute I walked in here, very full

From Gatherings to Podcast Discussions

00:42:49
Speaker
circle. Well, your mom's already been here several years. And to think like walking in the door for the first time when you had like, I felt a thousand people and kids. I just remember the long table.
00:42:59
Speaker
Oh my God, there's so many people in the living room. Food, kids everywhere. To think that we'd be sitting here, what, probably five or six years later on your podcast. Thank God. What a great thing. Yeah, what a beautiful thing. And so just tell John and your children a couple of names. Same to your beautiful children and husband. Shanatoba. Shanatoba. Bye. Bye.

Episode Conclusion with Rabbi Lian

00:43:24
Speaker
Well, everyone, I have had the best time being your rabbi for this episode. I'm so glad you joined me for another little bit of insight into planning your perfect Jewish or interfaith wedding. Until you can smash that glass on your big day, you might as well smash that subscribe button for this podcast. I don't want you to miss a single thing.
00:43:46
Speaker
Remember, you can always find me, Rabbi Lian, on Instagram, at, at, Your Ohio Rabbi. All one word for even more tips, tricks, recommendations, and wisdom on Jewish weddings.
00:44:03
Speaker
If you want to work with me on your wedding, you'll find all the info you need at YourOhioRabbi.com. Until next time, remember, you deserve the perfect wedding for you. Don't settle for anything less.