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14 - The Ketubah Ceremony
56 Plays11 months ago
You have the ketubah...now what's the plan for signing it? Where? When? How many people? Do we REALLY need a half hour to sign a document?
Here’s everything you need to know about the ketubah signing ceremony.
Part 1 - Safeguarding your ketubah (Yenta lecturing about ketubah safety timestamp: ~27:00)\
Part 2 - Logistics
Part 3 - The Spiritual side
Don't forget - you can reach me any time at www.yourohiorabbi.com.
Fill out the contact form there if you'd like to work with me on your wedding.
IG: @yourohiorabbi
Send questions for me to answer on this podcast to:
Hope to see you next time! Remember - there is ALWAYS more learning to do!
<3 Rabbi LeighAnn
Links mentioned:
The Bridetender podcast - My guest episode: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/estee-gordon/episodes/Jewish-Weddings--Traditions-and-More-with-Your-Ohio-Rabbi-e2bumkc/a-aak3dvh
Lieberman clause
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieberman_clause
Drs Rachel and Josh G’s wedding: https://www.yourohiorabbi.com/mazaltovs/drs-rachel-and-josh-g
Pens that I use: https://www.amazon.com/Pentel-EnerGel-Permanent-0-7mm-Medium/dp/B079Q7XW6G/
Ketubah artist recommendations for canvas: https://www.jerrysartarama.com/liquitex-professional-paint-marker-fine-2mm-light-portrait-pink?gad=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqP2pBhDMARIsAJQ0CzoBb0BL9rFYsZirFiFzPqG0IqhCXWv_j4tt8xKHeQAib2EZDYlEr-IaAqqoEALw_wcB
Recommended
Transcript
Ketubah Language and Podcast Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Maybe you don't have to sign in Hebrew. If you don't want to sign it in Hebrew, don't sign it in Hebrew. Why? Because Jews have been doing stuff, religious stuff, in the vernacular language for hundreds and thousands of years. Side note, you know that prayer, the kaddish, okay, mourner's kaddish, khatzi kaddish, whatever, you've got all of it. Okay, that prayer's not even in Hebrew. It is in Hebrew letters, but it's an Aramaic because that was the vernacular at the time they came up with that prayer.
00:00:28
Speaker
So sign your keduba in English. Your Hebrew names are in the keduba. You don't need to then sign your Hebrew names. And also, by the way, traditionally, the bride and groom didn't even sign the keduba. It was just the witnesses, not even the rabbi, just the witnesses. So I guess you don't have to sign it all. I do suggest you sign it though. I think it's kind of cool to see your signature from like the day you got married. That's just a personal like sentimental schmaltzy thing. Okay.
00:00:52
Speaker
Are you planning a Jewish or interfaith wedding? Are you lost on where to even begin planning the ceremony, let alone finding a rabbi to help you? Well, it doesn't matter whether one of you is Jewish or you're both Jewish. You deserve a guide. So take a deep breath. I promise it will all be okay. Welcome to your Jewish wedding with Rabbi Leanne. Here, I can be everyone's rabbi.
00:01:22
Speaker
Yours too. My guests and I will share everything we know to help make your Jewish or interfaith wedding full of tradition and perfectly yours.
00:01:47
Speaker
Hello everyone. Welcome to your Jewish wedding podcast with Rabbi Leanne. I am trying something new today. I was inspired by the one and only Esti from the bride tender podcast to try to do a video. I don't know. My camera's not like great, but might be better just in terms of, you know, doing some posts or something. So anyway, I was telling Esti on
00:02:11
Speaker
the podcast recording that we did together. Big honor, by the way, the Bri Tender podcast, big deal in the wedding industry, podcast space. So grateful that she let me crash her podcast and talk a little bit about Jewish weddings. You know, she's very smart because she uses Zoom to record these podcasts and it guarantees that her podcast is going to be under 40 minutes long. You know what podcast could benefit from that.
00:02:40
Speaker
the Your Jewish Wedding podcast with Rabbi Leanne. And as we get long winded here, and I was telling her, I thought to myself, you know, I talk to couples all the time. We call it the big phone call, the first big meeting we have about their ceremony. And it lasts an hour and a half. People are like, it lasts an hour. That's a long phone call.
00:03:03
Speaker
not for what we talk about. There's a lot of things people don't know. I love to talk about Jewish wedding ceremonies, all the customs and stuff. And so I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna put all these long conversations that I wish I could have about each and every custom. I'm gonna put them on a podcast and I'll just have a whole episode about a chuppah. I'll have a whole episode about the chutubah and how to pick one and all
Lieberman Clause and Audience Engagement
00:03:26
Speaker
that stuff. And maybe it'll be 45 minutes or an hour. And won't that be nice because I don't get that out. Friends,
00:03:33
Speaker
This is now the third episode about Kichibas. It probably will be an hour long. I'm not going to sugar coat it, you know, but like, listen, that's what you're here for. Okay. So we're all winning. We're all winning. It's fine. So it occurred to me that I had spoken about Kichibas and the history, right? It's important to know the history because
00:03:59
Speaker
I personally had been telling people incorrect things about katubas based on the small amount of stuff that I thought I knew about the history and the contents and whatever. Fine. And now I'm actually realizing in the second episode about katubas, which is katubas for contemporary couples, I didn't even talk about the Lieberman clause. I'm just going to make sure that I put in show notes for this episode.
00:04:25
Speaker
The Lieberman Clause, it's just a link. Listen, if you have a question, it's too late to go back now. The second Qutubah episode is already posted, but I will put a link to a page that you guys can read about the Lieberman Clause. Now, if you have a conservative rabbi, he or she will make sure that you talk about the Lieberman Clause when you're talking about your Qutubah. It is a very, very cool thing. Maybe I'll have a mini episode on it. If you have any questions,
00:04:53
Speaker
If you are conservative Jews or one of you is a conservative Jew or you somehow have a conservative rabbi officiating your wedding and he or she is not available to answer this question, send me an email. Okay. Your Jewish wedding podcast at gmail.com. I'll answer it. I'll probably answer it as part of the show if it's okay with you. And then we'll have ourselves another little mini episode.
00:05:12
Speaker
Who doesn't need more episodes of your Jewish wedding past? Am I right? So anyhow, so I realized though, in these conversations with couples, one of the biggest questions, the things that they just don't know anything about, because it's not part of a contemporary American wedding, because most American weddings aren't
Ketubah Signing Ceremony Advice
00:05:31
Speaker
Jewish. Remember, there's not that many of us, as I keep saying.
00:05:34
Speaker
What is the katuba ceremony? We have a katuba. We've thought through all the things. Rabbi Leanne, you checked it. It's getting shipped to us. It's beautiful. We're so excited. We got a katuba from Nava or from Rochelle or from forever ikatubas or, you know, whatever celebrity katuba artist, by the way, Mazel Tov on that. Very excited for you.
00:06:01
Speaker
And now we have this thing and you said you're going to bring the pens. So we know we're going to sign it, but what is that ceremony? And why are you advising that we take 30 minutes to sign this? I am always asking couples, well, what time is your Kachuba ceremony? I have learned that I need to make sure that they understand that there should be a designated spot for the Kachuba signing. It doesn't have to be fancy. We'll talk about that in a second.
00:06:31
Speaker
and a designated time that the cachuba will be signed by every party. And that is something that their wedding planner or their venue or whoever is coordinating the events of that day should also be aware of.
Ensuring Ketubah Safety
00:06:46
Speaker
I know that it won't take half an hour to sign your cachuba, okay? But I still do recommend blocking off that much time for the ceremony. First things first, when it comes to cachubas, I do get nervous about their safety.
00:07:01
Speaker
So after all we've talked about with your katuba and how important it is and how special it is to you, and let's be honest, how expensive it is, I know that you're paying a lot for that katuba and you should.
00:07:15
Speaker
I get nervous about your kachuba safety because it's a piece of paper. Sometimes it's a canvas. My, one of my Michigan brides this past year had it on a canvas. That yes, is more durable and I was significantly less worried about that kachuba safety. It was a little tricky to find a pen though. Now one of the kachuba artists actually sent me a message about what pen she recommends for those canvas kachubas. Obviously she knows her stuff. So if anybody has a question about that, drop me a line, send me an email. Okay.
00:07:45
Speaker
and I will tell you what she said. But you have put a lot of time, effort, love into this ketubah. Let's make sure it's safe, okay? Because it is a piece of paper. Sometimes it's got like,
00:07:58
Speaker
I don't know. Maybe I'm going to make sure to ask this question if I have a Catuba designer on the podcast and I'm hoping to have at least one. So if you are a Catuba designer and you're listening to this and you want to come chat with me and answer some of my more technical questions about the process of actually creating the Catuba, please send me an email.
00:08:16
Speaker
your Jewish wedding podcast at gmail.com. We'll talk about it. I don't care if you're like a celebrity katuba artist. I will consider you a celebrity katuba artist if you come and sit on my podcast. I really will because I think that it's such a cool job. Anyhow, it's a fragile piece of paper with fragile artwork. Please, please, please, please, let's protect it. It is still a piece of art because it's not a contract yet. It is not your wedding contract until you actually sign it.
00:08:44
Speaker
I understand that hearing me say this may make you say, well, Rabbi Leanne, it was shipped to me safe and sound in a tube from Israel or from South Carolina or wherever it came from. I'm just going to keep it in there. You might not think this through and that's why I'm here to help you. That is a risky idea to keep your katuba rolled up in its tube. So one of my past weddings, it was time to sign the katuba. We had the room all set.
00:09:13
Speaker
We had access, I put the pens there, we found the frame, we put the frame in there, but the kachuba was not with the frame. The kachuba was still at the hotel. Now, I understand that during wedding days, wedding weekends, there are a lot of moving parts in play and it is very easy to forget things. I wasn't upset.
00:09:35
Speaker
because we always work it out, okay? We always make it work, but I was a little anxious for that katuba safety. Yes, I know that it was in its protective tube, but where's the protective tube? You don't always know because it is small, okay? Before we go any further into this, I just want to say, I wanna really encourage you, if you have a lot of people involved in your wedding weekend,
00:09:59
Speaker
Obviously you have your attendance, right? Your bridesmaids, your groomsmen, your bridesmen, your groomsmaids, whatever it is. But you also very likely have some family who's going to be really involved in the weekend. Maybe it's your great aunt. Maybe it's your dad's sister-in-law who just really is so excited about the wedding and just needs something to do. Make that person, if you trust him or her, make that person in charge of the katuba.
00:10:28
Speaker
Okay. That is literally her entire job. It doesn't seem, when I'm saying this, it doesn't seem like it's going to be a big job, but it is. She has to get it from your boxes of stuff to the ceremony. And I want your Kachuba minder. Make him a list. Okay.
00:10:46
Speaker
Call me, I will help you. Transport the katuba safely to the venue. Make sure the katuba is flat and that the frame, it's either in the frame right now or the frame is ready to receive it.
00:11:00
Speaker
and that the Kachuba room is clean. These might seem obvious to you now, but there are some of the things that just go by the wayside on that busy, busy wedding day, no shade, no judgment. But if you are also, if you're a wedding planner and you're listening to this and you are unfamiliar with Kachubas, you don't understand what all goes into the ceremony and you're just kind of waiting.
00:11:20
Speaker
for the rabbi to get there and guide you. Let me guide you now. Get ready now before that happens because your rabbi, you know, who knows what he or she is going to win. He or she is going to roll in what they're going to be prepared with.
00:11:34
Speaker
I don't like to count on anyone else. No offense, wedding planners. I don't like to count on anyone else to make sure that all the elements are there for the katuba ceremony to the absolute best of my ability. So you don't count on the rabbi. The rabbi won't count on you. We'll be double prepared for everything. Nothing will go wrong and everybody will be happy, God willing kind of heart.
00:11:59
Speaker
Back on track. I have a hunch that one of the reasons that that kachuba was left at the hotel is because it was in its protective. This kachuba was by Nava Shoham, by the way.
00:12:16
Speaker
And it was 1,000% perfect for this couple. If I can gush for a second, 1,000% perfect for this couple. Their whole color scheme was based around the colors in a peacocks fan, the feathers. And the theme of the Cachubo went along with those colors, but also there were birds. I think there were
00:12:37
Speaker
maybe herons on it, which this couple loved zoos and they got married in the national aviary. And he actually proposed to her in the wetlands room. And I think there were actual herons there. I was so stunned by how beautiful and perfect this Kachuba was. Well done, everyone.
00:12:58
Speaker
This katuba was amazing, and as you can imagine, the couple paid a lot of money for it. It was worth a lot of money. It cost way too much to risk losing it because it was rolled up in its cardboard tube, and it could roll under the bed. It could get picked up as trash by housekeeping. Halila, God forbid, that should never happen to any of you.
00:13:21
Speaker
So the other issue with the tube, besides being too small and easily lost, is that it was protected, yes. But it's only protected until somebody tried to take it out of the tube. Okay.
00:13:37
Speaker
and tried to unroll it. And I say try to unroll it because, okay, you remember those posters that when we were in junior high and high school, you would go to like Walmart or Target and you'd get the poster of, I don't know, Dawson's Creek or whatever. I'm old. What did you have posters of on your bedroom walls? And do you remember getting these posters from Target or Walmart?
00:13:58
Speaker
nards or wherever you get home, you get all excited to hang it up on your wall and you pull it out of that plastic wrapping and that thing is still rolled up. Like you never took the wrapping off. So you're like, okay, I'm really excited to hang this up. I'm going to just roll it the other way or somehow make it flat. Okay. So
00:14:21
Speaker
you were either trying to, what did you do? You were either trying to reroll it the opposite way in case you flip it over and try and roll it against the original role so that it would then, by the laws of mathematics and physics in your junior high mind, it would stay unrolled. But I don't know about you guys, but I don't have very delicate hands.
00:14:43
Speaker
I always ended up squeezing it too hard and recreate. So then it's it is a little flatter, not perfectly flat, by the way, never was 100 percent. But it also now had these like creases from where I was like trying to like roll it the opposite way and it like crunched it, you know.
00:14:59
Speaker
So, or you try to do like the wiggle roll thing so that it didn't have the creases, right? So you just do like hand, like side to side, whatever. Um, but then the movement of the poster, right? It would cause this tear in the poster. Now, if you're talking about your power Rangers poster or if your periodic table of elements, I know some of you are nerdy enough to have that periodic table of elements poster from your junior high.
00:15:25
Speaker
bedroom and more power to you because you're probably a scientist or a doctor now and so, you know, thank you for your service, but it's all well and good for your periodic table of elements post during your bedroom. It is not okay, in my opinion, for someone to be trying to flatten out your katuba the day of your ceremony or like 10 minutes before you're supposed to sign it. It will cause someone to be
00:15:52
Speaker
sort of panicked, rushed, you know, you need to try to flatten this katuba from its safe little shipping tube when you are calm, cool, and collected, okay? On your wedding day or on the wedding day, if you're a bridesmaid or a sister of the bride or the brother-in-law of the best man or whoever you are, you're sweating,
00:16:14
Speaker
You aren't washing your hands all the time, right? You're, again, you're rushed. Don't risk it. Don't risk trying to flatten out that kachuba on the day of your wedding. And don't risk losing it by having it in its compact little tube. God forbid. So here's the thing. When we talked about your kachuba ceremony, if you are one of my couples,
00:16:36
Speaker
I told you I'm concerned for your katuba safety. People think that I am very reactionary about this, but it's for a reason. This is one of those ask me how I know situations. So I always ask you, please bring at least a piece of cardboard and a protective plastic sleeve. But guys, please bring the frame.
00:16:57
Speaker
if it's at all possible for you to bring the Catubas frame. Listen, even if you have a destination wedding, okay, or you live in New York City, but your parents live in Columbus, Ohio, you're coming back to Columbus for the wedding, get a frame for home and get a frame for Columbus.
00:17:12
Speaker
they're not all that expensive and your katuba is way too expensive to risk it. Okay. You can always figure out the shipping or the exchange or whatever later. Okay. When you have some moments in the time between when your katuba arrives at your home and when you need, when you're crazy making pre-wedding time starts. Okay.
00:17:35
Speaker
When you're in your living room and you're calm, you're not rushing anywhere. Lay out the frame. Take the back off. Take your time. Don't bust any of those metal prongs. Unroll your kachuba. Now I want you to unroll your kachuba. Make sure you wash your hands first. I'm not trying to sound like a kindergarten teacher. I'm not trying to sound pedantic here. It's things people don't think about. Ask me how I know. Wash your hands, dry your hands. Wave them around in the air.
00:18:05
Speaker
Now gently take your Kachuba out of its cardboard tube. You can use the tube if you're confident that it's not like dirty to roll the Kachuba in the opposite way. Okay. The Kachuba is rigid or the, I'm sorry, the, the shipping tube is rigid. You might even want to get a side note. You might even want to get a completely different shipping tube the same size that you know is like in pristine condition. Okay.
00:18:34
Speaker
but you're going to be using it on the back of the katuba anyway, the opposite side, so it should be okay. Use your tube to roll it the opposite way, okay? So take it out, it's all curled up. Gently flip it over, put the tube at the end of the katuba, and start rolling it the opposite way. If you aren't confident about whatever surface you're gonna flip your katuba over on,
00:18:59
Speaker
It's like, even if it's on your table, maybe put like a clean sheet down or a clean towel. We're not taking any risks. Another choice that you can do if you are nervous about trying to reroll it the opposite way, because you're worried about getting it dirty with your hands or, you know, it tearing God forbid or anything like that. Unroll it.
00:19:19
Speaker
Get some books or something heavy. Okay. Um, I don't know. You guys can think about heavy stuff. Maybe like whatever. It needs to be something clean. If you're not, again, if you're not completely confident about the books that you're going to use, maybe you have an old dictionary being completely clean, put it in a pillowcase. Okay. Now weigh down the ends of your Kachuba.
00:19:41
Speaker
Leave it there for a few days and it will be flat. It will be crease free, okay? Obviously, if you have a cat, your cat's mission in life, if it's anything like one of my cats, will be to destroy that katuba. God forbid, they'll try and spill water on it or put their little paw prints on it, which you might think are cute when they're on your car windshield, but it is not cute when it's on your katuba. So if you are leaving it out on your table somewhere and you do have
00:20:10
Speaker
a cat or little kids around that you need to worry about schmutzing up the katuba, put a protective, like just get a bed sheet or something, put something over top of it, maybe even some plastic. How many minutes have I been talking about your katuba safety? A lot of minutes. Okay. Once, I'm very serious about it. Once it's flat, put your katuba inside of its frame. Now, some of you may think, I don't know if any of you are as Jupyter's dishes as I am.
00:20:39
Speaker
I'm pretty Jupiter stitches. I don't like talking about things as if they will definitely happen successfully before they've happened. None of that. I don't think that putting your katuba in this frame falls under that category. If you're very Jupiter stitches, maybe get a different frame or like a cheap frame that you're not going to use. So it's not as if you've already signed it or it's not tempting fate or whatever. Why am I telling you to put it in the frame? Number one, the frame usually will have some kind of UV protective
00:21:09
Speaker
whatever on it. And obviously it'll be protected while it's inside of whatever frame, barring some freak accident. God forbid. The real thing about the Catuba being in the frame though, is number one, it makes sure that it's super flat for when you need to sign it, but number two, it's big now. Now it's big. Even if you got a tiny Catuba, like the smallest Catubas I've seen are like 11 by 14 or something, you're gonna put it in a frame. It's bigger and more.
00:21:39
Speaker
ostentatious than it was in that little tube that God forbid somebody might think is trash. You have a katuba in any kind of frame. Nobody's going to accidentally throw it out. It can't roll under the bed. None of that. Okay. It's going to be a lot harder for you to forget that katuba. Leave it in New York City while you go to Columbus, Ohio and it will be protected. Okay. Now this is the thing that people think I'm very overreactive on, but I really, I mean it. Okay.
00:22:08
Speaker
Move your katuba as little as possible. I don't want it to ride around in anyone's car for longer than one trip. I don't want it to go from the hotel to the venue and then back to the hotel and then back to the venue. None of that.
00:22:21
Speaker
I don't even want it to go from Columbus, Ohio to your parents' house in Cincinnati so they can ship it to you. Leave it with somebody who lives in Columbus, Ohio. If there's somebody you trust in Columbus, Ohio, just have it shipped to him or her. Maybe this is your katuba minder and that person will be able to do this whole thing that I just prepped you for.
00:22:41
Speaker
without you having to worry about it. Personally, I would have to trust that person a whole lot. I can only think of two people that I would trust enough to do that for me. So the last reason that I do recommend having it in a frame is that you will be able to display it if you want to. A lot of people don't think about this, but I don't think I have ever had a couple who
00:23:03
Speaker
did not display the katuba at either the ceremony, which is traditional, or at the reception afterwards. Actually, this katuba that I talked about, the one that got left behind at the hotel, but we got it back. In time for it to be displayed at the reception, the reception room had this beautiful, solid stone fireplace with a big, thick mantle, which meant it was, we all felt so much more secure about putting the katuba up there.
00:23:30
Speaker
than on the easel that people typically will use for it. Or even I have an easel that I bring to every wedding just in case. And it's metal. It's not even like rickety or anything, but this fireplace, I was so thrilled to be able to put the, the katuba up there. So the, that couple chose to display it at the reception because there was a chance of rain. We are in the Midwest of the United States of America. If there is a 10% chance of rain, you need to assume it's going to rain.
00:24:01
Speaker
That's just how it is here. You can plan an outdoor ceremony, but you need to assume that everything at that outdoor ceremony will be rained on. And if you're thinking about your katuba that way, honestly, even the frame is not enough to protect it if it rains real hard and fast, okay? So now that I've lectured you about your katuba safety, like a yenta, either you appreciate it or you don't, maybe I'll put here, let me put in the show notes, I'm gonna put a timestamp,
00:24:30
Speaker
for when you can fast forward to the timestamp and get rid of all my yanta lecturing. So the signing ceremony question, the most common questions that couples ask me are number one, what kind of space do we need? Number two, how much time do we need? Then who should be invited? And then what actually happens during the ceremony? So I'm glad that you asked. Now you're here and
00:24:57
Speaker
I'm going to try my best to answer all your questions. Okay, stop, go back, delete from, now you're here. Okay, so do you see why we need a whole episode to go over all this stuff?
00:25:08
Speaker
Number one, first, you can sign a katuba anywhere. Are you noticing a theme? If you've listened to all these episodes, what's the theme of Jewish weddings? We can have Jewish weddings anywhere. We are nomadic people. It took us 40 years to get to the land of Israel when we finally settled. And after that, guess what? We kept getting kicked out, kicked out. Our customs adapted to BIM.
00:25:33
Speaker
Portable. Everything's portable. Anywhere we go, we're still Jews. It's fine. You can sign a kachuba anywhere. Now, you all probably have some kind of fancy schmancy kachuba. It's custom printed. There's maybe there's custom art. You ordered it from Israel. It's got gold leaf, whatever it is that makes it fancy. That means that you want to make sure that at the bare minimum,
00:25:56
Speaker
The place you're signing the katuba needs to have a flat surface that is even and clean, okay? Even because if it's like rough wood planks, for example, you won't have a smooth signing surface and your signatures are gonna look funny. Now, you might not care, okay? I just think that if it's gonna be on your wall for the duration of your marriage, which is gonna be the rest of your life, you want your signatures to look smooth and beautiful. So,
00:26:24
Speaker
You just need, at a bare minimum, a room or a space with a flat table that is smooth and clean. So your katuba doesn't get dirty, obviously. Please don't have it next to a pitcher of water or bottles of water. This all makes me very nervous because it's artwork. A lot of times we don't want that artwork to bleed, okay?
00:26:50
Speaker
I want to encourage you though, above and beyond that, think about finding a space that feels calm and is uncluttered and has a lot of space. The Ketubah signing ceremony is one of those moments in every Jewish wedding that almost without fail, there's at least one person that has an emotional moment when that Ketubah is signed. It could be like,
00:27:18
Speaker
absolutely joyful, but it could also be like for clubs, like they're very, they're tearing up over this. It's very emotional thing. The other thing that happens a lot is that more people than the couple initially expects ends up rolling into the katuba ceremony. So just make sure it has some extra space that it's uncluttered so that when someone gets emotional, your photographer gets a good picture of it. By the way, photographers love katuba signing ceremonies. I think it's because
00:27:47
Speaker
It is culturally signaling, obviously, but also it takes kind of a long time to sign your name on that katuba. Not a long, long time, but certainly longer than, for example, a kiss at the end of your ceremony. Certainly longer than the moment where the glass breaks, right? So it gives your photographer
00:28:05
Speaker
a lot of time to get some really beautiful images of you. Also, a lot of people feel really awkward doing the signing because it's unfamiliar and it can make for really, really sweet moments and looks between the couple and sometimes their parents and stuff. So you do not need a beautiful space in order to feel this emotion or in order to really nurture it, but your photographer will thank you if you have
00:28:35
Speaker
a nice space that's not too cluttered or whatever, okay? So go on my blog. If you want an example of this, go on my blog, yourohio-rabbi.com or ourfavoriterabbi.com. Go to the Mazel Tov section and look for the post about Doctors Rachel and Josh G. I will link it in the show notes.
00:28:56
Speaker
but it's easy to find. So they got married at an art museum and they reserved an entire room for their Kachuba signing, thank you docs. And the photographs of this signing ceremony, I mean, obviously the photographer is very gifted. I've mentioned him on here before, Benjamin Durkin from Dirks Works Photography in Columbus, Ohio, absolute faith. His wife, Jennifer, is equally incredible. The photos were just gorgeous.
00:29:25
Speaker
And obviously, you know, Ben can take beautiful pictures anywhere, but it doesn't hurt, right? To have a nice space, to have a nice open space that fits the vibe of your wedding, whether it's cozy or airy or whatever, just a lot of people underestimate how big the moment is going to be, how big the moment is going to feel. So, you know, try and at least find, find a nice issue room. Now I have seen Catuba signings in janitor's closets. Okay. When that was the case.
00:29:53
Speaker
before the signing happened. And actually the signing at this wedding was an afterthought. It was just something they were going to try and fit in around the ceremony, which that was their choice and it's fine, but it didn't make things a little chaotic. So anyway, the katuba ended up in the janitor's closet and I just made sure that I pretended to be the photographer and looked at it from the photographer's viewpoint. I brooms out of the way. I,
00:30:20
Speaker
snagged a couple of the bridesmaids bouquets and I put them on either side of sort of the space where the cachuba was going to be, it ended up looking fine. You know, no stress. Another question couples have about this particular part is do we need to be together when we sign the cachuba?
00:30:37
Speaker
The answer is, might surprise you, the answer is no. I have had couples who did not want to make a big deal out of the katuba signing, and so they just stopped by when they could, they stopped by at different times, or when their mother dragged them and said, you actually have to do this. But whatever it was, they just knew where the katuba was. Obviously, that makes me nervous for reasons of safety for the katuba. Like I said, I don't like for it to be moved around or taken in and out of a frame.
00:31:02
Speaker
Anyway, that's not common. Some people do that. It's not common. I have had other couples who wanted to sign the katuba before the ceremony and weren't going to just leave it up to like whenever we remember, but they didn't want to see each other before the ceremony. Now I've talked about this a lot of times, but we have first looks are such an American thing. They're actually a Jewish thing too. We're going to do that in a separate episode, but the first look, my goodness, there's like five first looks at weddings now. There's like,
00:31:29
Speaker
first look with your bridesmaids and then with your dad and then with your husband and then now you're going to have a first look at the reception room and then you're going to have a first look at your bouquet and on and on and on. There are some couples still in the world who are like, we're not doing that first look thing. We are going to go the old school traditional route, traditional American route of the groom sees the bride walking for the first time when she walks down the aisle or
00:31:58
Speaker
You see one another the first time when you are arriving at the chupa. I respect it. So it's fine. We made it work. What we did is we just built a little bit of extra time into that schedule for them to come in at separate times and sign that chupa. So instead of 30 minutes, we made it 40 minutes. They still had a room. The chupa stayed in that room. It did not move.
00:32:24
Speaker
Okay, the couple each individually came to the katuba. They brought their parents, they brought their attendants. It was still beautiful and emotional and it was actually kind of nice because the bride and her mother had a very special relationship and like very, very close and she brought her mom with her and her mom was just kind
00:32:45
Speaker
falling and there to support her and her bridesmaids were as well. It offered me a little bit of an opportunity to talk with people on a different level also about what was going on. So we'll talk about that in a little bit.
00:32:59
Speaker
So, and also for this couple, I forgot to mention the, the Kachuba was so cool. It was very edgy and black and gold and equal. And the groom's dad is an artist. So he did the artwork for the Kachuba. And so then when, when the groom brought dad in for the Kachuba signing, it was like a very emotional moment for dad too. And I want to pause here and let you know that if you are planning,
00:33:26
Speaker
an interfaith ceremony, or one of you is Jewish, one of you is not. The person who does the artwork for that ketu but does not have to be Jewish, I think I talked about this actually in the last episode, so my apologies if I did, but it is a wonderful opportunity actually for you to involve people in your family and make them part of the actual Jewish part of your wedding ceremony. If they're not Jewish, they don't know nothing from nothing about being Jewish. I can think of at least three couples
00:33:55
Speaker
I've done weddings for recently that had original artwork by a friend or by a family member or by themselves for their kajuba artwork, okay? So that just makes it all the more emotional and I think that actually that would make you want to protect it even more, maybe. So long answer short, no, you don't need to be together for the signing. I do happen to think that it's a little sweeter
00:34:21
Speaker
and a little more fun and a little bit more utilitarian for the purposes of just the flow of the wedding day if you do it together, okay? And I'll make sure to mention that a little later too. I don't really care what time your kajuba ceremony is. I get to weddings like two hours early. It doesn't matter. And
00:34:43
Speaker
If you are like, Rabbi, can you just try and figure out the time and make sure you stand up at the time? I'm going to do my absolute best to, to make sure that your katuba ceremony is happening when it needs to happen, et cetera. Okay. Hopefully I have, you have a wedding planner or a day of coordinator or venue coordinator who I've sent them an email with the ceremony outline, which includes like timestamps, and they already kind of know what to expect.
00:35:08
Speaker
but if not, we'll work it out. It's okay. So how much time do you need for the katuba ceremony? Great question. I already mentioned before at least 20 minutes. I know that it doesn't take 20 minutes to sign your names on a piece of paper. A good planner will tell you this. It is going to take at least 20 minutes to get everybody who needs to be at the katuba signing at the katuba signing.
00:35:32
Speaker
to make sure you have all the pieces that you need to make it happen, to make sure all your witnesses are there. I have seen photographers
00:35:41
Speaker
trying to get groups of people together for photographs. Y'all, it is hurting cats. Maybe not even cats. If they've already been drinking, it's more like hurting turtles, okay? Everybody's just sort of enjoying themselves and enjoying the day. And when you need to make sure that there are more than two people in one place at once on a wedding day, it takes a lot of effort and it can take more time than you would ever, ever anticipate, okay? So my ceremony outline with timestamp that I send to your entire wedding vendor team
00:36:10
Speaker
after you've approved it, always begins with the katuba time. And actually, Jewish wedding invitations too, a lot of times they will say, you know, celebrate our wedding with us, this date, this place, and that will say katuba colon, and then the katuba time, and then ceremony time underneath it.
00:36:30
Speaker
because it is, it's an, it's an important thing. So, you know, as an aside, when I'm working on a wedding, I think I have this in common with a wedding coordinator or a wedding planner. I'm basically on dad airport mode when it comes to, to the day of, and especially the katuba ceremony. You know what I mean? You've seen the memes about the dads getting to the airport, you know, they need to be there an hour early. So they say two hours and they, you know, it takes 10 minutes to drive there, but sometimes there's traffic. So we're building in 45. That's basically me.
00:36:59
Speaker
If you build in 20 minutes for your katuba ceremony, I think you can be pretty sure that you will get five minutes, right? Because things eat away at that little measure of time. And while I'm typically not under huge time constraints, like if your ceremony starts an hour late, I'm not thrilled about it, but it's whatever. Other parts of your wedding team are not that relaxed about the time, right? So
00:37:26
Speaker
You have 20 minutes blocked off, but because we're herding cats or herding turtles or whatever, it ends up being five minutes, which ends up being exactly as much time as you need to sign the thing. So, you know, long story short, I have never had a wedding planner argue with me. Like, do we really need 30 minutes? Do we really need 40 minutes for the katuba signing? They're just happy that somebody is on the same.
00:37:46
Speaker
airport dad mode wavelength as they are in, in my experience. So in fact, I love the Kachuba ceremony because most people do agree with building in 20 or 30 minutes. The ceremony typically happens between first looks one through five. And you know, if you're doing private vows,
00:38:09
Speaker
Usually that happens first. So the katuba is kind of like the last stop before the ceremony starts. I know there's a lot of stuff going on in the wedding day, right? I've seen plenty of planners itineraries. That day is jam packed. Believe you me, I know when you are buzzing from
00:38:25
Speaker
hair and makeup to first looks to Meeting people who came in on the trolley to your mom's giving you a gift maybe or you're giving each other gifts are doing it can feel like your wedding day and
00:38:40
Speaker
is like an itinerary for a work day. Of course, you know it's not. That's not what it is. But you've got a lot to do, and it can be hard to remember that. So if you're interested in having a built-in excuse and space to breathe before you walk to the chuppah, before you meet under the chuppah, really give that space to the ketubah ceremony, okay?
00:39:05
Speaker
It could be that you haven't sat down, taken a deep breath, eaten anything or drink anything all day or maybe even since last night. So if you have a room that's big enough with enough accommodations, I suggest that you ask your caterer. You ask your planner to ask your caterer.
00:39:23
Speaker
Please bring some snacks that will stay in the far corner until the katuba is safely back in its frame. If you're having a champagne toast beforehand, all the better. Arrange for some of that to be brought into the katuba signing room again for after you sign and it's safely back in its frame. That's going to be a little bit of a natural pause and a little pregame before the ceremony. The people in that room are typically, to answer that question, the people who are signing the katuba, your immediate family and your close friends.
00:39:52
Speaker
Sometimes it's people who happen to come in early just because you don't want to leave them standing awkwardly outside while other people go in. But it tends to shake out to be the people in that room are your nearest and dearest, even more so than all the nearest and dearest that you invited to the ceremony. So it's nice to have them there. You look into their faces.
00:40:13
Speaker
the people who are signing the Ketubah are there because they are supporting you and they love you like more than anybody else in the world. You kind of remember, it gives you a chance, refocus on what's about to happen, okay? And you're getting something into your system. You're looking into your future husband or wife's eyes
00:40:35
Speaker
surrounded by all these people that you love the most. It gives you a pause. Now, speaking of your nearest and dearest in that room, a lot of you have questions about the witnesses. After a short break, we will come back and I will talk about how to choose witnesses for your katuba signing.
00:41:01
Speaker
Okay, welcome back. So some people seem to know that there's some kind of requirements for Kachuba witnesses.
00:41:07
Speaker
The answer as usual is are there, are there requirements? Well, yes and no. Okay. I don't personally have an issue. If your Kachuba witnesses are non-Jewish, the role of the Kachuba witness is to be somebody who puts their name in ink under the promises that you have made to one another. And it's sort of like the vibe of they're kind of like a God parent for your wedding. Like they are going to hold you.
00:41:34
Speaker
to those promises. It is going to be your constant reminder of the people who supported you enough to say, I think that you guys can do this. I think you're built to last. And all these things that you've promised one another in the Scatuba, I think that you are going to follow through on those promises. And I'm gonna just sort of keep an eye out and make sure that's happening, okay? If Jewish observance
00:42:01
Speaker
and very specific requirements for what it means to be a Jewish life. If that's not part of your promises to each other, which it's usually not, I don't see why the person has to be Jewish. Okay, so if your witnesses are not Jewish, fine. Zankesen, enjoy yourselves.
00:42:17
Speaker
The other traditional requirement for your Kachuba witnesses is that they are male. Obviously, I don't care. Traditionally, that's a requirement for any legal Jewish contract that a male witness signs it, specifically a male witness who is religious, actually. So because that's a requirement for a legal Jewish contract,
00:42:40
Speaker
I'm just going to be real with you. If you've listened to the last two katuba episodes, you already know this, but a traditional katuba covers a Jewish bride and a Jewish groom. According to the laws that require the witnesses to be male, misogyny aside, okay, we all know like, Oh, that's misogynistic. Obviously women are just as trustworthy and knowledgeable enough to sign legal documents. Obviously, obviously. Okay. But aside from that,
00:43:08
Speaker
If you are an interfaith couple, the katuba that you're signing is not the same as the katuba that covered a Jewish bride in the Jewish room, right? So in my opinion, in my perspective, that requirement for the person to be Jewish male observant does not apply as it would for a traditional katuba because your katuba is not a traditional katuba.
00:43:34
Speaker
If you're ever concerned about this ketubah being important as a legal document, if the two of you are Jewish and let's say you have opted to have just the traditional boilerplate, ketubah text, like Orthodox couples have, and you're thinking we might need this to apply for
00:43:55
Speaker
something in Israel, or we might need this down the line to prove that we had a Jewish-Jewish wedding. Whatever your concern is, listen, people are paranoid. Jews are paranoid about special Jewish things. If you are at all concerned about the future validity of this document in a Jewish legal context, then find two men who are Jewish to sign your ketubah.
00:44:19
Speaker
All right. It, people know a lot of Jews. It shouldn't be that big of a deal. Okay. But it's not a requirement. Again, that's not a requirement for me. My only requirement. I do have a requirement in terms of your Catuba witnesses. This is a traditional requirement. It's rare for me to have requirements for wedding stuff, guys. Okay. If someone is going to sign that Catuba, he or she should not be related to you.
00:44:43
Speaker
The Ketubah, as we discussed two episodes ago, I believe it was episode 12 about the background and history of Ketubahs, did involve an exchange, a monetary exchange or a material exchange, an exchange of material goods. It's part of the deal. If your sister signed your Ketubah and there is a dispute, God forbid, there's a divorce or a dispute about the terms of that Ketubah in the future, whose side is your sister going to be on?
00:45:11
Speaker
Probably not the person you married. It just makes sense. Please try your level best to find a mutual friend that loves you equally. You know, a super distant cousin-in-law, maybe, I don't know, a coworker, somebody that you care about, who cares about you, who also, you also want to have an important part of your day.
00:45:39
Speaker
This is a wonderful opportunity, by the way, because that person is not related to you. It's a wonderful opportunity to give that person a role of honor in your ceremony that you normally would have reserved for a relative or somebody that you quote unquote had to, you were obligated to give a role in your ceremony. This is a role that, that a family member actually cannot have.
00:46:01
Speaker
Great. Another question that a lot of people ask me and they, you can tell they're kind of afraid to ask me this because they are afraid of my answer. Do we have to sign in Hebrew Rabbi? I have not read a Hebrew word since my bat mitzvah. I have not written a Hebrew word maybe ever. I certainly, you know, I can barely remember my Hebrew name. I had to call my grandma to find out she had to dig up my baby naming certificate, whatever it is.
00:46:25
Speaker
Now, I'm signing this Hebrew document. Do I have to sign it in Hebrew? Okay, this has been one of the answers that I give that has offered the most relief to the people that I work with. Jews and non-Jews alike, it doesn't matter. I tell them, no, you don't have to sign in Hebrew. If you don't want to sign it in Hebrew, don't sign it in Hebrew. Why? Because Jews have been doing stuff, religious stuff in the vernacular language for hundreds and thousands of years.
00:46:54
Speaker
Side note, you know that prayer, the Kaddish, okay? Mourners Kaddish, Khatzi Kaddish, whatever, Yitka Ravi. Okay, that prayer is not even in Hebrew. It is in Hebrew letters, but it's an Aramaic, because that was the vernacular at the time they came up with that prayer.
00:47:11
Speaker
So sign your keduba in English. Your Hebrew names are in the keduba. You don't need to then sign your Hebrew names. And also, by the way, traditionally, the bride and groom didn't even sign the keduba. It was just the witnesses. Not even the rabbi, just the witnesses. So I guess you don't have to sign it all. I do suggest you sign it though. I think it's kind of cool to see your signature from like the day you got married.
00:47:29
Speaker
That's just a personal like sentimental schmaltzy thing. Okay. You know, I just want to say this. I understand that a lot of this stuff, you know, it might not feel right. You know, I say that my promise to you is that your wedding ceremony will be authentic, vibrant, and inclusive. And authentic is a loaded word. Okay. Authentic to a lot of people can mean the way that things are done, or the right way to do things.
00:47:57
Speaker
So that's why it's one of the reasons that this podcast is actually so important to me, to help people understand that number one, there is not one right way to do things, which we see in every single episode, but also that there are many different ways of doing things.
00:48:13
Speaker
that come from old traditions, so authentic. There are many, many ways of doing things. And those ways are for good reasons. Those ways are for reasons you can connect to. Just because there's common American Jewish knowledge about quote unquote, the way things are done, does not mean that that is accurate. Okay, so please hear this with an open heart and open ears. Hey, what's commonplace?
00:48:42
Speaker
in our lives is what becomes holy. The things that you understand on a deep level, right? So the language you speak, the language you dream in, that is the language that you will experience the most important parts of your life in. The experience itself is holy. The fact that you're making these promises to one another, the fact that you're doing it through this ancient document,
00:49:07
Speaker
The fact that you have two people, minimum two people in your life who care enough, who love you equally to sign this and back you up on this commitment that you're making, that's holy. Whether or not they can copy some Hebrew letters that your rabbi brought on a sheet, that's not holy. I mean, it's kind of cool. It's impressive. And by the way, I have
00:49:31
Speaker
like a template ready to go that if you or your guests even think you might want to sign your names in Hebrew, I will bring it in super large font, the Hebrew. I will bring it separate sheet for everyone. They can practice on the back. They can practice underneath it. I encourage you to sign in Hebrew if that is something that feels important to you. But the key is that it feels important to you. If it gives you stress, if it gives you anxiety, I don't want you to do it now.
00:50:00
Speaker
I got married after my first year of rabbinical school. I wanted things done a certain way. I wanted, I actually hand wrote my own kachuba. I wanted it done right.
00:50:12
Speaker
And my poor husband, like he had spent over a year learning in Israel. He could read and write in Hebrew. He can sign his name in Hebrew. He had signed his name on like the water bill in Hebrew, you know, like he, he could do it. It was not a big deal. You know, we both were proficient in that area. Okay. He went to sign his name.
00:50:33
Speaker
He signed it wrong, guys. He messed up. I can't even remember now. I remember how it felt because I was standing next to him watching him sign it. I remember how it felt when he did make a mistake, but now, you know, it's been 19 years. I don't remember what the mistake was. I remember being grateful that I had done the
00:50:51
Speaker
I had done the artwork and the whole thing for the ketubah so that I knew how to go back and fix it. That was my number one, most overwhelming thought. So even if somebody has lived in Israel, signed their name to documents upon documents, and was really proficient writing in Hebrew script even, if that person's getting married on that day, he or she might not be in a state that their hand might be shaking, whatever it is. It's a big day.
00:51:18
Speaker
Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. I don't want you to have the feeling, not that I regret it for myself, because it was a pretty funny memory, honestly. I don't want you to look back on your katuba ceremony necessarily and recall the feeling of anxiety or shaking or worrying you're going to do it wrong, okay? Just ask yourself, talk about it as a couple, talk about it with your rabbi or whoever is officiating your wedding.
00:51:44
Speaker
If you're at all concerned, just make a decision. If it's bringing you any stress, just make a decision to sign it in your vernacular language, okay? That's okay. Your name, as I said, is already printed in the kachuba up above. Nobody's gonna be stressed that they can't read your signature perfectly or whatever it is, okay?
00:52:01
Speaker
So now look, this episode is already, my glory, is already almost an hour long. This is what happens on this podcast. If you're here on episode 14, you know what you got into, okay? No apologies. We're gonna take another short break and when we come back, we're going to talk about the actual
00:52:21
Speaker
ceremony for the katuba signing. What happens now that we've talked about making sure your katuba is safe, making sure you have witnesses, making sure you have the room. What actually happens in that ceremony when we get back? Okay. Welcome back. What happens in the katuba signing ceremony? Obviously the katuba gets signed. Okay.
00:52:42
Speaker
There are more options, but the bare minimum is you just kind of sign the thing. Honestly, we can make it more of a thing. And this is sort of the first example of what people really want for their guests to have an explainer for a lot of the time. Okay. We will talk about all this. If, if you plan your wedding ceremony with me, we will go through all your choices and some
00:53:04
Speaker
things to fill that space if that's something you're concerned about. If you feel awkward about signing your name in silence, it's something a lot of people don't think about, but it always happens and it's awkward and the room feels very quiet like a library. So I usually offer for my couples that, do you want me to chat? Do you want me to give explainers? Depending on the vibe of the wedding,
00:53:27
Speaker
If it's, if it's jokey and humor, then, you know, maybe we'll make jokes, whatever it is. If you would like me to talk about the significance of your kachuba, especially the artwork while you're signing, that's another way that we can chatter chatter to fill that weird feeling space. Okay. Sometimes,
00:53:46
Speaker
The couple likes to let their guests ask questions in real time. If you trust the people who are gonna be in that katuba room to not be inappropriate or weird, okay, because we did talk about the katuba, including some things about intimacy.
00:54:07
Speaker
If you feel confident that nobody's going to make a crass joke or ask a crass question, then you can give your guests free range to ask me anything. And I will answer to the best of my ability there. If I don't know, I'll say I don't know. So another option for this is beyond the explainers and beyond letting your guests ask questions. I almost always offer is
00:54:28
Speaker
I do the explainer, the Kachuba talks about real life obligations. As you know, if you've listened to the last two Kachuba episodes, the two of you are making to one another and they are, you know, things like we're going to support one another and, and we're going to make sure that we have fun together and that we give to charity or that we always have a dog or that we never go to bed angry or whatever that is. They're very like real life examples. So again, once again, if you trust the people who are going to be in that room,
00:54:57
Speaker
I can offer to ask them to contribute suggestions for things that you promise one another real life things. If that room is full of couples whose romances and life stories you admire as a couple and you trust them to have some wisdom for you, whether it's like funny wisdom or actual wisdom, you know, like make sure that the coffee is the perfect temperature when he wakes up or, you know, make sure that she always has extra fluffy socks in the drawer, whatever it is.
00:55:28
Speaker
Sometimes it can be funny, like, you know, happy wife, happy life, and especially if people have been drinking a little bit. Sometimes it can be more like cliched, make sure you both give 100%, it's not 50-50, you know, you've heard all these things. If you trust your family members to sort of, or the people in that room to give the feedback that will feel good to you, then that's something we can do. I imagined that more of my couples would opt for this than the ones that do. Family, listen, families are complicated.
00:55:57
Speaker
Things can be weird at weddings. I 1000% recognize that. Ask me how I know. So you don't have to do anything like that either. The other option is I could just read through the Kachuba while you're signing it or your officiant can. Just while you're signing it, there's that pin drop
00:56:18
Speaker
library silence that happens in a lot of katuba signing ceremonies. Sometimes people's guests are like really chatty and they are just chit chatting and it's almost like nothing all that big of a deal is going on. But if you do have that pin drop silence, which is more common than not, you could just have somebody read through the contents of the katuba. Now, I'm not suggesting that somebody bends over your shoulder while you're signing it and reads it from the katuba. First of all, you know I'm concerned about what?
00:56:45
Speaker
I'm concerned about the safety of that katuba. The more people who are breathing on that katuba, the more nervous I am. So bring, if you want to do this option, bring a copy of the text of your katuba, print it out in large font. The more we talk about readings and stuff at weddings, I am going to say this a cajillion times in large font.
00:57:06
Speaker
And maybe even laminated. I'm just going to say it. I know I sound like a PTO mom. Okay. Maybe even laminated. I don't want anyone to be reading anything off of their phone. I say this with the full knowledge.
00:57:21
Speaker
That photographers hate it when you or anybody is reading anything important from the screen of your phone. You all know what the screen of that phone emits. You know because you know you're not supposed to be looking at it before bed, don't you? I just started tangent time. I just started on this little personal journey of really trying hard to stop looking at my phone like an hour before bed.
00:57:47
Speaker
It's not easy, okay? But we all know it's the blue light. The blue light is what messes up our sleep cycles. It's what makes our sleep not as deep as it should be. It's what makes us cranky the next day. And it's what makes your face ugly when the photographer is trying to take a picture of you reading something important.
00:58:04
Speaker
Stop don't do it if you are reading anything during your wedding ceremony. Don't read it off your phone Okay, that was a little me that was a little rant Back on track whoever is reading your katuba text should not be reading off of a phone now Some of you have seen katuba ceremonies and pictures of a katuba ceremony katuba signings
00:58:26
Speaker
where there is a thing with the handkerchief. Do you know what I'm talking about? It's actually the same thing as the thing with the handkerchief that they do when they're dancing and getting lifted on the chairs at the wedding reception. Each number of the couple is holding one little corner of the same handkerchief. You're holding it up in the air together. What is that?
00:58:45
Speaker
you've come to the right place to ask. This is related to Kinyan. The last episode, two episodes ago, episode 12, we talked about Kinyan, which is the idea that by signing the Kachuba, you all are acquiring the privilege to be in a new kind of relationship with one another. That's what you're signing for, okay? But the Kachuba is pre-written.
00:59:10
Speaker
Possibly, we've heard of this happening plenty of times. I'm not going to name any names, but kind of a famous family. This has been like an issue that has come to light where someone says, oh, here's something. I just need you to sign it. Just sign this. Don't worry about what's in it. Just sign it. Of all things, God forbid, we do not want that to happen with your katuba.
00:59:29
Speaker
And there's this idea that it's kind of easy for that to happen. Side note, there's another custom of leaving one letter out of your katuba. And if you get your katuba from katuba.com, they specifically ask this question in your little form that you fill out that goes into their database. Do you want the katuba to be left incomplete? Why? Because it is a tradition to have the rabbi or your witness complete the katuba on the spot.
00:59:58
Speaker
to prove that it was not signed at a different time or place than it says it was.
01:00:04
Speaker
So interesting. If you guys are like fascinated by legal minded stuff at all, you will find this so cool. I have had a couple of my couples participate in that particular custom. But anyway, we want to make sure that the people who are signing the Ketubah really understand that what they're about to sign, what's in it. Okay. So in order, so I found this explanation for Kenyon and what the handkerchief thing is online. I will put a link to it in the show notes.
01:00:36
Speaker
The explanation from the link I posted in the show notes is this. In order to seal all of the stipulated obligations and to assure that the document is not asmahtah, which means based on speculation, we're just assuming what's in it, right? We don't want that, right? We want to make sure the people signing it actually read it. The rabbis in Jewish law required the legal formality of kenyan, the act of acquisition, which we talked about. Because the bride cannot take possession of all the property,
01:01:03
Speaker
I know, interesting. The groom affirms it by a symbolic act called kinyan sudar, okay? Thus at the wedding, the rabbi or one of the witnesses gives a handkerchief on behalf of the bride to the groom. When the groom picks up that handkerchief, that indicates that he physically is present and fully accepts and understands the terms in that katyava.
01:01:28
Speaker
So then, if the Qutubas not finished, that's when they finish the word, the Qanina, inside that traditional Qutuba, meaning we have completed the act of acquisition of Kenyan. The symbolic act of passing this item must be seen clearly by the witnesses.
01:01:47
Speaker
So this act of passing the handkerchief or whatever the object is has to be seen by the witnesses so that they know when they sign the katuba that everybody agreed to everything, whatever. If the katuba is calligraphed by a scribe or printed in advance, they just leave out one letter, like I said.
01:02:05
Speaker
of that one word so that the katuba is technically not completed before this little ritual is made. If this custom is overlooked, it does not alter the katuba's validity so long as the witnesses in fact witness the transfer of
01:02:20
Speaker
the handkerchief or the object. Okay, so it's interesting, interesting custom. And I like to encourage couples to do this in a slightly different way. Forget about the whole interface between the witnesses and whatever it is.
01:02:37
Speaker
Um, I have started bringing the handkerchief. I bring a lot of handkerchiefs anyway because sometimes people cry obviously at weddings, sometimes people sweat. I always have handkerchiefs on me the whole time. I'm wandering around before your wedding, obviously under the Khaba.
01:02:54
Speaker
Anyway, so I just use one of those plain white handkerchiefs. Now, if you are really invested in this particular ritual, you can bring your own, if there's like an heirloom handkerchief, by all means, please. However, it's kind of tricky because it shouldn't really belong to either one of the parties, right? So that's why I bring my own handkerchiefs. This is nothing special, it's just a white handkerchief, it's whatever. And you can keep it if you want. The last wedding, no, two weddings ago that I did this, somebody in the room was like already crying before the katuba ceremony.
01:03:22
Speaker
So the handkerchief got passed back to that person to deal with like the tears and whatnot. Anyway, very sweet. I usually have just been laying the handkerchief on top of the kachuba so that the two of them have to pick it up in order to sign.
01:03:41
Speaker
So it's not possible that they are going to sign this Kachuba. It's not possible that they're not going to read it. When they pick up the handkerchief, the text of the Kachuba is underneath it. So I explain all that. I explain that it really is just another layer of making sure that we all understand what we're about to sign. Because if we are going to involve a legal document as part of this, you know, marriage ritual, we want to make sure that
01:04:08
Speaker
Everybody agrees to it with a whole heart that there is some sentimental nuance and meaning to what they're about to sign. Because who wants a wedding to feel like a real estate deal? No, it's not, right? It's not what it is. And so I like the idea of adding layers to it.
01:04:28
Speaker
that make it more than that, that sort of force that attention, force the focus and being present in that moment, not just holding the pen, but physically engaging with this document. So I do like that meaning of it, right? It makes sure that we all know exactly what we're going to sign. I have seen some very cool reimaginings of this ritual. So tradition tells us to handkerchief. I do like the handkerchief, by the way, because it does make a great photographic moment.
01:04:58
Speaker
It's kind of, it's awkward. It's not something that you typically do with your beloved. And I think it just gives like a moment of levity. And usually the couple will give very sweet looks to one another. They're a little, they feel a little awkward. They feel a little excited. It's that moment, right? Once again, the photographer loves it. I'm not trying to like do everything for the photographer, right? Life is not for the gram. I'm not saying that it is. I'm just saying the more moments you can create,
01:05:28
Speaker
that are easy for your photographer to find and capture emotion especially in looks between the two of you right because there's so much going on that day any opportunity that we can offer to your photographer to really capture that and so much more the better you know so but i have seen this handkerchief thing be modified by contemporary couples
01:05:49
Speaker
to be like a sack, like a little satchel, like maybe it's like a silk bag. Oh, and if you come from a different culture than your spouse, your beloved, it could be that it's like maybe if you're Indian, you know, maybe this is a sari cloth or maybe it's a bag made of like Chinese silk or like in an auspicious color or something like that, right? So many ways to add this little element of your katuba ceremony to include different cultures. If there is a specific
01:06:19
Speaker
not only color but type of fabric that is significant for whatever culture one of you is from, all the more so included here. But I have seen this modified to be like a little sack or a little bag where each person getting married.
01:06:32
Speaker
add something into that sack that represents him or herself. So it's like their favorite necklace or a video game controller or I don't know what it is. What's important to you? What objects are important to you?
01:06:50
Speaker
Like, what would represent me? Maybe a book, like maybe a book that that person loves, obviously make sure that the bag is big enough for the object you're putting inside, but that represents you, that represents, you know, your role in the relationship, what you're going to bring to this household.
01:07:05
Speaker
put it in the bag, and then both of you pick up the bag at the same time to show that you accept what the other person is bringing to the table. So that's actually a really cool interpretation on the Kinyan ritual, the acquisition ritual, because it's not like one of you is paying for the other one. It's not like super legalistic. It's saying, this is what I'm bringing to the table. I will always choose to have a quiet night at home reading a book.
01:07:33
Speaker
over anything else. You know this about me. I'm emphasizing it and everything else that comes from loving a person who loves books, right? Interesting conversations.
01:07:44
Speaker
discovering new things, maybe picking up a habit or maybe being encouraged to grow a habit of reading, right? Oh, it could be like an exercise watch. It could be like a cool kitchen gadget. It could be a little leash because one of you is bringing your dog to the relationship, okay? It could be
01:08:05
Speaker
like a house key for your new house or tickets to a vacation. I don't know if I would recommend that. It's something to really think through, right? It could be like a fancy menorah because it's really important to you that you celebrate the Jewish holidays and one of you is bringing that from your family and you know, we're acknowledging that that means a lot to you. And
01:08:25
Speaker
I would almost rather it be representative of that person's quirks or something unique about that person. And then when you pick it up, you are saying to that person, I know that this is part of the deal and I accept it with a whole heart and to signal my
01:08:43
Speaker
Acceptance, I'm signing the Catuba now. So cool. Again, even cooler, the photographer loves it. Those objects that you add into the bag, it could be the photographer wants to do a whole different flat lay. Do you guys know what a flat lay is? I learned this when I joined the
01:08:58
Speaker
the wedding professional community. It's just a picture of all the important stuff that was a part of your wedding. And Jews have a lot of stuff. We love our ritual objects. There is that vibe in Judaism that a thing that you use for a happy occasion absorbs the vibes of that happy occasion.
01:09:16
Speaker
and it becomes important. Pretty much anything can become an heirloom, right? So the flat lays are very cool, the flat lay photos. I know people like to knock them and say, oh, flat lays are useless. Well, maybe if you're coming from a culture that doesn't care about stuff, but guess what? A lot of cultures do care about stuff. Heirloom stuff, we're passing down stuff, we're contributing to the ceremony, which
01:09:35
Speaker
We will talk about more and more as we go deeper into the ceremony, especially with regards to like the hoopa and stuff that happens during the ceremony. So I do think also, if you're having an intentional Kachuba ceremony, so this really does. The reason that we do things with our bodies as rituals is because
01:09:55
Speaker
You know, things that we do, actions can feed into emotions and can feed into mood, okay? When we pick something up together, when we willingly share the burden of something, when we uncover the katuba together by picking up that anchor chiff together, right? It does signal a transfer of mood and intention, right? It feels significant. If you are people who love symbolic stuff,
01:10:24
Speaker
consider doing this little Kenyon moment, this picking up the handkerchief, this transfer. I have been sort of piloting the whole handkerchief thing in the last few weddings I did. Nobody really argues with me. People don't seem upset or unsettled by it. And in fact, they really like it. I am
01:10:39
Speaker
asking every single couple is this something you're interested in doing once again the purpose of our phone call is so that things that might have sounded weird to you yesterday now you understand them a little better now you can even if you don't make a decision on that first call very few couples make all their their decisions you know during that first call that you at least have the information to think about it and and and to
01:11:04
Speaker
ask more questions even right because that's what being Jewish is all about you ask more questions right otherwise you're not participating so uh yeah so just think about it right this is why i like the ketubah ceremony as a whole it does offer that little solemn transition between makeup pictures shenanigans you're drinking you know and the seriousness of what you're about to walk into when you two stand under the hupa together
01:11:29
Speaker
It is like the universe holding its breath. And you are at the center of the universe. Obviously, the next episode, we're gonna talk about the origins of the chuppah, the one after that, we're gonna talk about making your chuppah your own. You will hear about all the significance of it. But before you get there,
01:11:46
Speaker
Really, I encourage you to be, if this speaks to you, to please be intentional with your ketubah ceremony. You know, make it a thing. Think about what you want, your final moments. That sounds like a jail sentence, doesn't it? Think about what you want those last few moments before the two of you stand up in front of everybody and make that commitment, before you stand under the huppah, that Jewish symbol of the huppah.
01:12:11
Speaker
What do you want those moments to be like? And what do you want to fill them? You don't want it to be people poking around on their phones. You don't want it to be people standing awkwardly around. You want it to be something that lets you move into that space without it being like in just another time slot on the itinerary. And so I know it might
01:12:35
Speaker
sound a little ironic because it literally is a time slot on the itinerary and most of the weddings that I officiate, but it serves a purpose and it gives you that space. So even though you don't need 30 minutes to sign a katuba, give yourself 30 minutes for that experience. This is something serious that the two of you are doing. You're getting married. I don't need to lecture you on how serious that is.
01:12:58
Speaker
planning a wedding for goodness sakes. Okay. A few last questions. What order do we sign the Ketubah? And a lot of times the lines will just have, um, you know, bride, bride, groom, groom underneath, um, rabbi, witness, witness. So the only consideration that I usually make sure of before we begin is, is anyone left-handed? Because as you may know, when you have a left-handed person there, there's like,
01:13:25
Speaker
palm drag across the document sometimes. And we want to make sure we do everything we can to guard against smears. So if you're officiating or if you're just planning for your own katuba signing ceremony, something that an extra handkerchief or a piece of clean paper is good for is putting underneath the signer's hands.
01:13:47
Speaker
So we don't have any of that palm drag from either direction, okay? I like to usually do the witnesses first, and then the couple, and then while the couple is doing their little chat and like, oh, we did it, and like family celebrating, then I kind of just quietly take it to the side or...
01:14:04
Speaker
just quickly sign it there after the couple's done. And then I personally escort the katuba back to its frame. What kind of pen do we need? I will bring you a pen. I'll actually bring two pens. They come in a little two pack. And just in case one of them is a dud, I always bring more than one. It's another case of ask me how I know. The pens that I bring are archival, acid free, bleed proof, permanent, all that fraud proof. I will link in the show notes.
01:14:33
Speaker
the pens that I've been using, and the pens that the Catuba artist recommended me on Instagram too, for the canvas Catubas, which I asked her about. Okay, so that you have access to what exactly those pens are is very important, because you don't, you just don't want anything to mess it up, right? So what happens after the ceremony? So you signed it, you're officiant or whoever is in charge of the, the photographer's taking her pictures.
01:15:01
Speaker
Somebody has made sure your katuba minder or your rabbi or whoever has gotten that katuba back safe and sound into its frame, perhaps even to its next destination, which could be displayed next to the chuppah or at the reception. You guys chill. Maybe you have brought champagne in there or snacks.
01:15:17
Speaker
If you are not drinkers, I'm certainly not a drinker. A lot of people aren't, especially, you know, the older we get, we really drink so much. So I do see a lot of weddings that taking full advantage of the party spirit for the entire day, Zygazent, more power to you. But after you sign, you guys just chill out. You have your champagne. I will coach people on either if you have some wine or some
01:15:41
Speaker
snacks. I invite people to do a lahaim if it feels right, maybe a little mazel tov. Some people like to take the framed katuba and have the couple hold it. The photographer likes to take pictures again. If you had anyone who arrived early at the ceremony or there are people who are at your katuba signing ceremony that are there because you really value that they're at your wedding but you haven't had a lot of opportunity to interact with them,
01:16:06
Speaker
It's a chance to greet them. You have a special moment with them. They feel special. And then maybe they're less concerned about like cornering you at your reception, you know. What happens? Finally, what happens? If the worst happens and you do not sign your katuba, maybe like I said, you didn't just forget it at your hotel. You forgot it at your apartment in New York City. And now your whole wedding is in Columbus, Ohio. And you just don't have your katuba.
01:16:33
Speaker
You, you only realized this morning, by the way, so you didn't even have a chance to overnight it. Okay. Tough times. What happens if you don't sign the kajuba? Nothing, like nothing, nothing, nothing bad happens. It's okay. Like I understand like that sounds terrible, right? Especially because, and you're like, then why did we go through all this trouble? If it's not important, you guys know why it's important to have a kajuba and to have it signed and whatever. We've gone through that for like three hours now. Okay.
01:16:58
Speaker
The Ketubah, however, is just one factor that makes your Jewish wedding, quote unquote, legit. Okay, yes, it's an important traditional symbol. Yes, I still want you to have that Ketubah signed and it's okay. All right, you can sign it later. Most of you who are not basing any of your activities or decisions on whether or not you've signed the Ketubah, this will just be a funny story. Oh my gosh, can you believe?
01:17:23
Speaker
We left the katuba in the apartment in New York city. And actually, fun fact, our katuba was signed 12 days after our actual wedding. Fine. You guys can work out what to do exactly. If you've forgotten, if you're freaking out, if mom's freaking out, whatever. And I will be there to in person or hopefully your rabbi will be there in person or whoever's officiating. We'll have listened to this podcast and we'll be ready to say it's okay. Everything's fine.
01:17:51
Speaker
You know, at the wedding that they left the ketubah in the hotel, the time for signing the ketubah, the time for the ceremony came and went. The ketubah was nowhere to be found. There was a little bit of rushing around. But when the bridesmaids realized that it was back at the hotel and they weren't gonna be able to get it to the venue, the ceremony venue in time for the chuppah time to start, I was there to say, it's okay, no big deal. We will figure it out.
01:18:21
Speaker
There are so many worse things, God forbid, that could happen on your wedding day. This is, it's okay. Eventually, they did get the ketubah back from the hotel. It was after the khupa time. And the couple had a beautiful sweetheart table already set for them. They were gonna sit there all through dinner. And we just cleared it off a little bit and signed the ketubah there. It's okay.
Handling Wedding Day Mishaps
01:18:40
Speaker
It's absolutely fine. So the most important thing is to, no matter what happens, remember that today is a snapshot in time.
01:18:48
Speaker
Everything that happens today will be a memory tomorrow. If something goes awry with your katuba, God forbid, despite our best efforts, despite listening to this podcast, and I'm here to tell you, terrible things happen to katuba sometimes.
01:19:02
Speaker
It's okay. It can be replaced. It can be re-signed. And God willing, the worst thing that will come of that is that you guys will have a memory of being stressed in the moment, but ultimately realizing that everything is fine and you are still married and you still love one another and you're still building a beautiful home together and making a beautiful impact on the world. It's okay. We'll figure out the katuba thing.
Wedding Planning Tips and Listener Engagement
01:19:27
Speaker
All right.
01:19:27
Speaker
If you don't have the kachuba, like if you realize that it got left in your apartment in New York City and you're just in the room, hey, remember, you still have snacks and champagne, which is another reason I recommend lining that up, okay? It still is that moment when you can connect with one another, you can connect with those guests, you can prepare to walk to the chuppah together. Oh, do you hear that? The construction outside of my house has started. That is my signal to wrap it up. So let's do that. Remember,
01:19:57
Speaker
There are a lot of details I shared in here about your Kachuba ceremony. The most important thing remains about planning your wedding and all the ceremonies that go with it is that you are all in on the details of it. You understand what's going on. You're okay with it. It's something that you've made an intentional decision on. No matter the configuration,
01:20:19
Speaker
Don't let anyone tell you what has to be true, what doesn't have to be true. Hopefully you have a confident, efficient clergy member rabbi who can step in and if there's any busy bodies or anybody who's getting inordinately stressed about your ceremony, they can say it's okay because it will be okay. You guys are going to have a beautiful day.
01:20:39
Speaker
And your katuba ceremony can be a very sweet and special part of it, but it's just one part of it. But please don't try to roll it back to flat on the spot. Oh my gosh, I'm like, I have shivers down my spine just thinking about it. Okay, that's it for today. Remember, I love subscribers. I love, love reviews. I would love for you to review the podcast. Follow me on Instagram. You can find me at your Jewish wedding podcast on Instagram.
01:21:07
Speaker
You can find me, the person me at your Ohio rabbi on Instagram. Follow me for updates on everything. Obviously drop me a line, say hello. If you need help with anything, let me know. If you have a suggestion for a guest or a topic for the podcast, let me know that as well. Of course, you can always email me at your Jewish wedding podcast at gmail.com. I really want to hear from you. I'm going to renew my call for
01:21:31
Speaker
real-life Jewish wedding stories. So it could be if you have had a Jewish wedding and you want to tell me about it, you just want a dish. You know, my friend Esty, whose podcast I was on a couple of days ago, she just got married less than two years ago. She's still loving her memories of her beautiful, beautiful wedding. Or if you got married 60 years ago, you're
01:21:50
Speaker
You live with your grandma and she is always telling you cool things about when she got married, whether it was her first wedding or a second one or third one, whatever. I really want to grab as many stories of real Jewish weddings as I can. My mission with this podcast is to obviously offer some education background, some things to think about when planning, but also to really drive home the point that guys, there is no one way to do any of this Jewish wedding stuff and you should
01:22:20
Speaker
really feel free and really feel validated in doing it however you want. And hopefully those real Jewish wedding stories will help us just bring that awareness to everyone. So it's going to be okay. All right. Until next time.
01:22:36
Speaker
Well, everyone, I have had the best time being your rabbi for this episode. I'm so glad you joined me for another little bit of insight into planning your perfect Jewish or interfaith wedding. Until you can smash that glass on your big day, you might as well smash that subscribe button for this podcast. I don't want you to miss a single thing.
01:22:58
Speaker
Remember, you can always find me, Rabbi Leanne, on Instagram. All one word for even more tips, tricks, recommendations, and wisdom on Jewish weddings.
01:23:15
Speaker
If you want to work with me on your wedding, you'll find all the info you need at YourOhioRabbi.com. Until next time, remember, you deserve the perfect wedding for you. Don't settle for anything less.
01:24:36
Speaker
you