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23 - A Thorougly Modern Ketubah (feat. Bekah from Foreverie Paper)
53 Plays9 months ago
Bekah specializes in simple, beautiful, and personal ketubahs for each of her couples. Using her experiences in interfaith and Jewish life from childhood onward, she approaches each couple with the curiosity and knowledge to make their ketubah process mean much more than just picking out a piece of paper to sign.
Find Bekah and work with her at www.foreveriepaper.com
Podcast - http://www.unsettledpod.com/ by Max Freedman
Book - https://www.jaymichaelson.net/books/godinyourbody/
Don't forget - you can reach me (Rabbi LeighAnn) any time at www.yourohiorabbi.com or everyonesfavoriterabbi.com or rabbileighann.com !
Fill out the contact form there if you'd like to work with me on your wedding. There are SO many options, from Ketubah consulting to ceremony planning. If there's something you have in mind, don't hesitate to ask - I'm here to help!
IG: @yourohiorabbi
Podcast IG: @yourjewishweddingpodcast
Send questions for me to answer on this podcast to:
Hope to see you next time! Remember - there is ALWAYS more learning to do!
<3 Rabbi LeighAnn
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm just very, very lucky that my brother-in-law is a rabbi. Wow. I have a giant loophole in my life. I guess so. Yeah, that does make things a lot easier because you need a rabbi more often than you think. Are you planning a Jewish or interfaith wedding? Are you lost on where to even begin planning the ceremony, let alone finding a rabbi to help you?
00:00:24
Speaker
Well, it doesn't matter whether one of you is Jewish or you're both Jewish. You deserve a guide. So take a deep breath. I promise it will all be okay. Welcome to Your Jewish Wedding with Rabbi Lian. Here, I can be everyone's rabbi, yours too. My guests and I will share everything we know to help make your Jewish or interfaith wedding full of tradition and perfectly yours.
Guest Introduction and Background
00:01:07
Speaker
Welcome everyone to your Jewish wedding podcast. It is Rabbi Leanne here. It's cold, but sunny, which you all know is my favorite. And my second favorite thing, probably in the universe is having amazing interviews with people who work closely with Jewish weddings. And I'm so lucky today that we have Becca from Foreveri Ketubah here with us today. Welcome Becca. Thanks so much for having me, Leanne. That's the appropriate way to pronounce your name and all, right? You got it. Okay, fine.
00:01:37
Speaker
All right, so before I jump into this conversation with Becca, she designs and creates kachubas for couples, custom kachubas. We might not actually talk about kachubas all that much because I think we're passionate about adjacent issues. However, I just want to give a disclaimer at the beginning of this podcast.
00:01:57
Speaker
that we are each individuals and that our conversation does not constitute Jewish legal advice or decision-making, and that we may use the terms ketubas and ketubot both.
Interfaith Marriage Experiences
00:02:11
Speaker
We understand that the appropriate plural of the word ketubah is ketubot
00:02:15
Speaker
However, American Jews usually say Ketubas. So just for y'all's information going forward, does that, do you have anything you want to add? No, I love it. You provide religious and cultural context. It makes me very happy. So thank you. I slip between Ketubas and Ketubas because the thing is that.
00:02:34
Speaker
I feel like one of the things that Jewish professionals and rabbis can do to distance themselves from their community is sort of doing that annoying like insisting on the correct pronunciation and not like blending into the conversation. So let me just say katubas a lot, whatever. Anyway, so Becca, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself, whatever you'd like people to know?
00:02:59
Speaker
Sure. So I guess relevant to the conversation and even how I came to this, I was raised interfaith and I was famously interfaith because the Staten Island advance featured my family when I was five years old and we got to pretend to eat chicken at dinner so they could take a picture of my raised Catholic agnostic dad and my Jewish mom.
00:03:25
Speaker
And so interfaithness has been a part of my life forever and ever, but I went to Hebrew school, I became a bat mitzvah, et cetera, et cetera. For ages and ages, I was in the nonprofit space doing community arts work with women in prison and then adults with special needs. And at some point in all of that, I got married. And
00:03:47
Speaker
Um, my husband was raised Jewish, but dabbled in, he dabbled in modern orthodoxy. Then he dabbled in Buddhism. Um, at the time that we got married, I was pretty strongly identifying as an atheist and we, but we are both like the most sentimental people that you could imagine on the planet. Um, and so.
00:04:10
Speaker
we had this thing of wanting to have all of these traditions and be sort of traditional in how we did the traditions, but then also be completely authentic to ourselves. And so we ended up writing our own all-English katuba, and then my mother-in-law does calligraphy, so she did the calligraphy for it. And the design was super basic, and then it ended up becoming the foundation for the first katuba that I designed for other people.
00:04:37
Speaker
Okay. So you wrote, I feel like I should have a completely separate episode just to talk to you about your wedding, but because it was crazy. Like there's so I can tell you. All right. Well, if you can still stand me at the end of this hour, then we'll, then we'll, then we'll rebook. Um, I wrote my own katuba also, and I feel like it was such a crazy thing at the time, but now custom katubas are so, so normal.
Professional Journey in Katuba Design
00:05:03
Speaker
Yeah. So how long have you been working on katubas? Like how long has this been? Yeah. So I'm in my fifth year of doing this professionally. I got married 10 years ago. So there was actually five years between me seeing that I didn't see myself and my marriage reflected in the katuba market. And then it took me five years and I looked back and there, I still didn't see people like me reflected in the katuba market. And I was like, maybe at this point I should, um,
00:05:33
Speaker
do this. I should make some for people like me. And then it's grown a lot since then. But I think at the core, the people that I serve are the same, who are people who really are sentimental, love tradition, love their family and their heritage, but also are not going to put on a different vision of religiosity for their wedding day.
00:05:54
Speaker
It is so interesting when you say people like me, because as you were telling me the story about your husband, you know, he dabbled in modern orthodoxy. He dabbled in Buddhism. He's still really staunchly along with his traditions. You were raised interfaith, which by the way, your father was raised Catholic. Catholics understand Jews so well. Like the religious lifestyles are so similar in terms of like the modes.
00:06:19
Speaker
that those two stories I feel like are some of the most common American Jewish stories for people in their 30s right now. So it's mind boggling to me that it was something that you hadn't even seen reflected in the industry. But what do you mean about not seeing yourself reflected? Like, can you expand on that? For sure. So I think for me, coming from an artistic background, not a theological background, I was looking for something that looked
00:06:47
Speaker
relevant to me that did not look like it came from a synagogue gift shop. It did not look like something that someone's grandma got for them. And
00:06:57
Speaker
didn't look, again, like something I wasn't. So something that looked like the other art in my home or looked like it had a message in the artwork that reflected either my faith, my views on relationships and marriage, or just what makes me feel connected. And so I wasn't seeing that. And at the time that I started, I had like a very, very minimalist, I mean, like
00:07:21
Speaker
You can still see kind of aesthetic and I was looking for something that really like was text forward. Okay. And wasn't frilly and wasn't going to like age as trends changed. So that was my like first. Yeah, you didn't want like the like the teal and pink color blocking that screams like 1980s or whatever.
00:07:42
Speaker
Right. And everything looked like stained glass to me. Like I love, I love the reform synagogue. Like I miss, like I, like, I love like nice carpet and I love modern stained glass, but I didn't, didn't feel right in my house. The reform synagogue, okay, this is wild, complete like tangent, but the, the biggest reform synagogue in Columbus, Ohio famously had stained glass in like the fifties with Moses and humans in it.
00:08:09
Speaker
Yeah, which she's making like a surprise face. It's a so not a Jewish thing. Like our stained glass, if you're unfamiliar, it has like objects and like Hebrew letters in it. And it was like this big kerfuffle when they moved like what should, well, first of all, they moved it from the sanctuary to like the little chapel because people were just up in arms like a couple of generations later. But then they moved buildings completely and they brought them along and they put the stained glass in like the atrium.
00:08:36
Speaker
like Stained Glass Moses in the Adrium. But it's just so interesting to see how sensibilities around art and how people can see art and feel something, especially in a place where they are supposed to identify with their surroundings. And then they don't, which I'm hearing is kind of like part of your
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah, or it was okay for me to go there, but it wasn't for my home,
Artistic and Cultural Significance of Katubas
00:09:03
Speaker
right? And so the Ketubo was like something intimate to me that was going to be like in my bedroom, probably. It just didn't make sense for it to feel like something that a synagogue had like issued to me. Well, I wanted to, you know, if this is the first time someone's listening to your Jewish wedding podcast and or they have skipped my three episodes about Ketubo. And so we- They're so good.
00:09:26
Speaker
And so we can get Becca's perspective and additions. Can you just tell us, explain what's a katuba? Sure. So historically, a katuba is a wedding, a marriage contract between two Jewish people, a man and a woman that are getting married.
00:09:43
Speaker
And it followed a very, very specific text only in Aramaic and outlined the husband's responsibilities for the wife in the event of the dissolution of their marriage that she would be provided for. So it was a prenup.
00:10:01
Speaker
But a katuba today, we have beautifully riffed on that tradition to a great degree. And so now Jewish couples and interfaith couples use the katuba as a contemporary marriage contract where they outline their commitments to each other and sign it as part of their ceremony. And often, especially in this latter revised tradition, it is a beautiful piece of art.
00:10:26
Speaker
That is so beautifully put because I can feel like your sense for our tradition because you said it's a contemporary marriage contract, still a contract, but it's just the way I differentiate it from, I usually put it opposite, when I'm talking to couples, I usually put it opposite vows. Vows speak to emotions and your katuba speaks to the everyday. So it's interesting that we've kept that document that outlines obligations
00:10:56
Speaker
and rewritten in a way that shows that we understand that acts like physical acts and day-to-day is also an expression of love. And I think that's something cool about like the Jewish wedding in general is that we have that, we have that ketubah. Cool. So
00:11:12
Speaker
They can't see us. Video recording in the podcast world is just, I know everybody, I know I'm supposed to be doing video and that's like the cutting edge. I just can't get it together. I don't, it just makes so many other problems in my life and who needs more service, right? Like nobody needs more problems. So.
00:11:29
Speaker
So for today, but you didn't see the artwork that Becca was referring to on her while it is very cool. It's minimalist, like cream and black, geometric, maybe some sort of freeform shapes in the grid pattern. It's very cool. For those of our listeners who have not looked at your website and done their homework before listening, can you just describe your designs?
00:12:00
Speaker
So we have a spectrum. It's not a huge spectrum of design, but we start on the minimalist side. So we have designs that are text only. I come from a printmaking background. So I really love nice paper. That's why my company's called for every paper. And so we have designs that are just texts that are super minimal. And then we have, I work with,
00:12:25
Speaker
about a dozen now artists around the world who make art that is very inspired by nature. So we have abstract painters and printmakers and a woman out of Amsterdam, Ruth, who does cyanotypes with real flowers that are amazing. And so we feature their work and then design the text around their art and we create
00:12:49
Speaker
with all of that. So I'd say all of our imagery is grounded in nature in some way, just because that's probably the largest gateway to spirituality for myself and what I just gravitate towards. And yeah, that's us. So we're definitely in the contemporary sort of modernist space, but there's a variety in there of like things that are more abstract and more organic.
00:13:12
Speaker
It's appropriate because, as you know, the Jewish wedding ceremony is almost completely centered on the topic of creation. It's like getting married is seen as taking part in the act of creation. So, cool. I didn't know that there were other artists on your site. I thought it was all you. Well, that would be incredible, but no. Do you know that text-only ketubas are actually an old Sephardic tradition?
00:13:42
Speaker
Yeah, they were only illuminated. I learned this for when I was doing my podcast episode. They were only illuminated in the European diaspora. And I think that the Sephardic custom, they thought it was kind of crass to put all the stained glass artwork around it and stuff. So it's very cool, especially if a couple has... Now I'm giving you advice that you didn't ask for.
00:14:03
Speaker
especially if a couple has Sephardic roots and they're having this feeling like, I feel kind of weird, but I don't really want that much art. You can tell them like, it's part of your heritage. It's fine. I was looking at your site and I have to say, I didn't expect this, but the Kachuba that struck me the most was the one where the whole design, artwork and text was off center. And there was a lot of empty space.
00:14:31
Speaker
And I'm not typically the type of person who feels things from art, I'm sorry. It's okay. Especially not unsolicited. But I saw it and I've seen a cajillion cajubas and there are so many cajuba designers and that one just made me stop. And it did feel like it hit me a little bit. Do you ever have people hop on with you for a consulting call or email you?
00:15:00
Speaker
because one of your pieces made them feel something? For sure. I would say that I get maybe 20 percent of my inquiries. People are having strong feelings. Wow. Amazing. And I think it really comes down to that, like, seeing yourself
00:15:18
Speaker
like you're looking and you're looking and you're looking and thank goodness for the internet we have a zillion katuba options like you can find a katuba for you and I can help I'm really happy to help people find the katuba if it's not us that's great but like I think that there are people maybe of the millennial generation who have made other art choices for their home and are have an aesthetic
00:15:45
Speaker
predispositioned, right? They like go through life really caring about how things look. And when they find us, they say like,
00:15:54
Speaker
Yes, and it is great because, as I said, that's why I didn't like to find myself in the Judaica sphere where I didn't see myself. So to make that connection for people is very cool. So you say like I'm getting the vibe that what you mean by seeing themselves in the artwork is sort of like an aesthetic or preferential thing. Yeah. In terms of the personal,
00:16:20
Speaker
Do you have any stories you can tell us about maybe an interfaith couple or an intercultural couple that came to you and said, this is it, we've hit the jackpot with
Personalized Katuba Stories
00:16:30
Speaker
you? Yes. Let me think for a moment because it's so many of, so I'm working on a piece right now. I want to be as vague as possible because it's got to, um, but
00:16:43
Speaker
It's actually like a gift for a couple, but we're working with a couple and their sister. And the sister saw our Sequoia piece, which is a print of tree rings by an awesome artist named Eric Linton. And she was like, she like saw
00:17:07
Speaker
a thumbprint in it. She was like, she could like see that the tree rings reflected like fingerprint pattern. Yes. Yeah. And the room is a tattoo artist. And and she was like, oh, he works with hands and whatever. And so now we're working on a custom piece that's like based on that level of close up, but of their fingerprints together, which is really cool. So that's just one that sticks out in my mind. They're actually not interfaith, but
00:17:38
Speaker
But that's one where like it really struck the sister is relevant to them and then it did fit with the couple. Let me think of interface specific couple. As I said, it's like so much of who we work with. I think that what maybe stands out to people on top of the aesthetic
00:17:55
Speaker
are our texts, actually. That's what people say. They have an emotional connection because of the interfaith piece. That's so cool. Tell us about your texts. Okay, cool. So we have a little collection of signature texts. The first that's our formal text was actually based on what my husband and I wrote for our wedding. And so it's like,
00:18:16
Speaker
I would say it has like a pretty reverent tone, but still talks about like life and death and building a community and all of these things. It was very much grounded in like both of us having an artistic background and wanting to like encourage each other creatively, but still be a foundation and things like that.
00:18:36
Speaker
Thanks. And then we have, um, a text that's grounded in mindfulness. Um, one of the greatest things that I've found in my, um, like personal spiritual searching is the amount of overlap there is between, um, like Eastern mindfulness traditions and Jewish tradition book, uh, God in your body, Jay Michaelson, I think. Oh, okay. We'll put it in the show now. And
00:19:01
Speaker
So there's a mindfulness text and it like the end says like more basically like more than anything we like wish for commit ourselves to like the courage to begin when we forget all this we want like the courage to begin again over and over like every day.
00:19:21
Speaker
And then we have a social justice text that talks about Tikkun Olam. And so I think that like, especially the latter two allow interfaith couples to get down to the root of how their spirituality interfaces with their faith tradition or with their marriage, with their beliefs about love and where they might have really big overlaps in that Venn diagram. That might be like about service or it might be about
00:19:51
Speaker
sort of stillness, but I think that that's where I've had people say. Yes. That's so good. So are your texts, is it like a mix and match situation? Like, is it like you can kind of Lego build your Catuba text? Yes. So we offer these as like a framework.
00:20:06
Speaker
Um, or as a suggestion, but my, my recommendation, we also have a very robust guide to writing your own texts on our site. Um, because I'm just a huge fan of that. So all the time we're putting together pieces, either people will slightly revise the text that we've written or they'll, they'll put together like a puzzle, as we said, um, each, and that's just all standard. Like that was really important to me when I started the business was that there would not be, I don't want to say a penalty, but it's not extra to do a custom text to me. That's great. I encourage it. So it's just part of the.
00:20:36
Speaker
So you really are doing like the trendy values-based decision-making and applying it to the process of creating your own katuba.
00:20:47
Speaker
Yes, I would say that for me, I am about 10% of where I'd like to be in terms of everything being values based.
Interfaith Marriages and Spiritual Growth
00:20:54
Speaker
Like I am like, very, very, very, there's very little separation between my heart and my work. Like I, so I just, we're just on an ever pushing path. Right. Of course. I think the cool thing about Judaism, I know we're talking about katubas, but Judaism in general is that we are, we've been around a long time.
00:21:15
Speaker
And obviously there are layers of Jewish civilization and that brings changes in philosophy and tradition and the approach to all kinds of things. And so I think it's actually possible to start by asking just about an individual's values and then locating the corresponding one in Jewish tradition. And I think if they meet with a person like you who can sort of unlock that
00:21:41
Speaker
a little bit for them, then that can actually create a stronger connection to Judaism where maybe there wasn't one before. So that's a really valuable offering you had. Have you ever had a couple call you up and say, we're not sure if we want one? I haven't, actually. No, they already decide before they call you. Yeah, I think that people find me because they're looking for one. I will say that
00:22:08
Speaker
a minority, but it makes me really excited when there's a couple that sees it as like the heart of their ceremony and are really serious about it. But there are people that come to me like really intense. And then there are others that are, see it as something that is a box to check.
00:22:27
Speaker
Yeah, can you just kind of handle it for us? Yeah, and I'm sure that's actually that is pretty much my reflection on what I do also. And what I do find, though, in the process of planning, people do get attached to the ceremony and to the symbols and stuff in ways that they did not expect.
00:22:45
Speaker
Now, in terms of interfaith couples and katubas, a lot of times I speak to couples and if they're interfaith, the Jewish person in the couple will say they'll have sort of a self-consciousness about it and they view a katuba as something that's like
00:23:02
Speaker
antiquated and outdated. And they're obviously not antiquated and outdated because they're not even marrying a Jewish person. And so I think they kind of make the assumption that that's automatically not for us. The interesting thing is that I'll either have the Jewish person and the couple sometimes say,
00:23:21
Speaker
my fiance wouldn't understand it and I don't want to make him feel uncomfortable. So no. And you'll have fiance right next to the person saying, like, I think this is great. Like, Rabbi, can you tell us more about it? Like, please. Or the non-Jewish person just wants to learn more about it in general and wants to be more involved than maybe the Jewish person who just wanted to check the box.
00:23:46
Speaker
So I think a lot of that is just out of, I think it's extraordinary when a non-Jewish person marries a Jewish person because it's not easy to attach yourself to the Jewish community in terms of just your life, right? And we're seeing now it's especially not that easy in America to be attached to a Jewish person. But what I see from these people, obviously they love their fiances, but
00:24:13
Speaker
It's a wholehearted kind of love and it manifests in conversations with me as like we love Judaism too because the person we're marrying is Jewish. Have you noticed like anything, any experiences similar to that? Absolutely. Yeah, I think I've seen it not just in my
00:24:29
Speaker
in my work, but like in because people find out what I do and then they look at my website and then they tell me about like, Oh, you know, my son is dating someone not Jewish. They like confess to me because like, yes, the baby generation. Um, and they're, they're like holding this as stress. And I'm like, do not, do not, do not stress, hon. Um, but they'll say, you know, Oh my gosh, but she bakes the best holla.
00:24:54
Speaker
Or like you just see that love for tradition come through and it is like there there is so much richness to connect to and like my dad.
00:25:05
Speaker
grew up going to Catholic school, but he was like in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn. And so it was more Yiddish than anybody. Um, and so like, I wouldn't say my dad is like a, like a lover of Jewish tradition, but like without note, like not like he wouldn't say it, but like he, it's like, he like took it on. So, um, yeah, definitely. And I think that
00:25:27
Speaker
when I've worked with interfaith couples who are doing a portion of it in a like in a collaborative aspect so either we're doing a custom piece or they're writing their own text it is absolutely not like the Jewish member of a couple leading the charge it is like totally both um and we've had I've had like a healthy number of um
00:25:50
Speaker
couples where the non-Jewish member of the couple is the one initiating the whole thing, the whole relationship with us from the beginning. And they do come to it like, help, I don't know. And I tell them, like, listen, no one that comes to me knows. Like, you're not behind the eight ball on katuba knowledge. We don't go over this in Hebrew school. No. Oh, exactly. I have so many. I also have a lot of Jews.
00:26:15
Speaker
in interfaith relationships. I think they feel like there's an additional burden on them to have all the Jewish knowledge for the sake of their fiance sometimes. I get so many apologies that I don't know anything about Jewish weddings. I'm like, did you grow up in the shtetl in Fiddler on the Roof? Of course you don't know about Jewish weddings. Why would you? That's what people like you and I are here for, I think. I will tell our audience, and I think they already know, but interfaith marriage
00:26:45
Speaker
is it's one of those things in the American liberal Jewish community that I think people just don't talk about because they know it's so fraught for so many people, but in completely different ways. I will tell you, and I've confessed on, I've done my own confession on this podcast before. When I first graduated from rabbinical school in 2008, I was one of those people who would, I would do a gay wedding, but never an interfaith wedding.
00:27:12
Speaker
Never. Because we had had the population survey in the year 2000 that freaked everyone out, that said that 52% of non-Orthodox Jews were marrying. Somebody wasn't Jewish. And there was this, I think, instinct that we had to just lock it down and make it stop.
00:27:30
Speaker
Now anybody who's been a parent will tell you, you can't make anyone do anything. Now it's 72. Thank you. Now it's 72%. Oh, 70, just 70. Yeah. Is it only 70? I believe. Well, I mean, yeah, that was, I think like three or four years ago. It's like a Brandeis survey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was the Brandeis one. And then there was also the Pew.
00:27:52
Speaker
OK, so maybe I'm thinking there's yeah, there were two and they were like the same year. So but the the really interesting part was that of those intermarried couples, almost two thirds were raising their children as Jews, which effectively and this is wild. I'm not a math person. Effectively meant that they had doubled the Jewish identifying population within a generation via interfaith marriages. Yeah.
00:28:20
Speaker
So the thing that we thought was going to destroy us, and anybody who looks back at the 2020 Jewish National Population Survey and the media about it, there were people saying, this is a second Holocaust.
00:28:36
Speaker
They're going to do things to our community that Hitler only dreamt. I mean, really inflammatory. Yeah. And I think some people truly believed it. And honestly, I kind of believed it too, but I'm also a person who loves data. And you cannot argue with the thing that we thought was going to destroy us has actually revitalized the American Jewish community in ways we won't understand for another 20 years.
00:29:02
Speaker
incredible. The thing that really strikes me though about, I mean, that's what really strikes me, but the second most interesting thing about those surveys, I think it was the Pew because it was about other religions.
00:29:14
Speaker
In America, 22% identified as none, no religion. So they call them the nuns, which whatever, we have no religion. And I do think that spirituality is something that a lot of humans naturally yearn for, like a connection to tradition and spirituality. And I think what we see in a lot of our interfaith couples is the non-Jewish person who's one of those. It's like, I don't have much, but I would really like something.
00:29:40
Speaker
And, you know, Judaism gives you something. I don't know. That's what I say about my ceremonies. I'm like, listen, it's at least something good to start with, because what else are you going to do? You're going to go stand in front of people and then what? So the structure is good, I think.
00:30:02
Speaker
So you told me that you have some opinions that you love sharing and reflections about interfaithness as a way of personal and spiritual growth. So that's really why I started on this whole rant with you because I wanted to hear what you had to say.
00:30:20
Speaker
So I think, you know, my journey with this started young because my parents did holidays and nothing else. So there was no spirituality in my young childhood. We went to like the JCC and did some holidays with community. So there was community. That was nice.
00:30:44
Speaker
But yeah, there wasn't like faith as I would define it. And that left like this big space for me to come to it with a sense of openness later in my life when I wanted to explore what I believed. Even though I had done both religions, I didn't feel like
00:31:03
Speaker
it had been decided for me what I would believe really. And I think that even within a religion, each person who practices does get to have a journey with what they believe. And so I did a lot of reading and that was when I came to sort of believe that I was not in the theistic believing tradition myself. And then it's been a long journey throughout my adulthood to figure out what my actual beliefs are.
00:31:32
Speaker
which are really hard to explain to a three-year-old. Let me tell you, my daughter is three. And I have a great, I know what I believe, and it is very entertaining. My daughter goes to a Chabad preschool. I think that Jewish tradition, we have a tradition of never answering questions. We just ask more questions.
00:31:55
Speaker
Yeah, and I and I answer her, I just like she asks me where God is and I'm like, like, every everywhere. Yeah. And I'm like, she's like, but where is he? And I'm like, well, I don't believe that he's a he.
00:32:12
Speaker
It's like she's three. We need to go back several steps. Several steps, anyhow. And I'm like, but it's okay because people believe different things. And what your teachers say, I'm not saying it's wrong. It's just not what I, anyhow. Yeah. Well, and you can model that difference of belief and that we're all still Jewish. And I think that's such a healthy thing for her. Yeah. And I'm just confusing her on the essentials, but it's okay. But to go back with interfaithness, what I think is
00:32:41
Speaker
exceptional is it puts just a little tiny bit of space between what we do and who we are. So if you say, what I do is who I am, like this lens, this is my eyeballs, great Judaism is my eyeballs, and I can only see through this.
00:33:01
Speaker
And then if that is your perspective, maybe you're not falling in love with someone of a different faith. Maybe that's not happening. But if Judaism is your glasses and you're like, I need my glasses to see all the time, but you have a different set of glasses and now I can see something different. I'm still going to wear my glasses most of the time, but now I know other people wear other glasses and I'm going to
00:33:29
Speaker
I'm gonna invite that perspective to share my life, to help shape my life. Like suddenly,
00:33:38
Speaker
something that you've seen the same all the time just becomes open for investigation and I think that like for me what was missing even though there was like talk about like oh jews always question and whatever but like in my family practice of religion there were not a lot of questions and there was not an exposure to like the depth and breadth of
00:34:01
Speaker
kinds of practice and it was just like, this is how we do it. And like, I think it's just an antidote to this is how we do it. Because when you're trying to build like a life together and all of the practical and emotional and spiritual facets that that entails, like
00:34:19
Speaker
to be forced to look a little closer, to be a little more thoughtful at all of the major intersections, whether it's like decisions about when you have a baby and what you're doing or when you're having your wedding ceremony. I think you actually get a more intimate relationship with your own faith because you're not acting out of habit and you find
00:34:41
Speaker
And this is, again, this is not the position of Rabbi Leanne and your Jewish wedding and all of this, but I believe that religion is a really important set of stories and guides that we can use to make sense of the world. But just because I don't choose to use another set of stories and guides as my primary resource, it really helps me to know that there are a lot of similarities between my stories and guides and everyone else's stories and guides.
00:35:10
Speaker
Like, doesn't that get me to like a better, like, I'd rather feel connected with everyone on the planet because we have something in common than feeling only really connected to a small set of people because we have everything in common. If you don't understand the similarities, it's, it's impossible, I think, to understand the differences. And so I do think that there's a richness that a lot of people are missing when they only wear the Jewish glasses.
00:35:35
Speaker
I also think what you're describing is in large part growing pains for people just leaving their household and meeting other people and finding out that what they grew up learning was Jewish is actually not exactly the same as other people see it. And I think that that's
00:35:51
Speaker
cool. I think that's okay. But do you think that having a non-Jewish father and having non-Jewish traditions here and there in your household, do you think that that made that realization easier? That there are different sets of glasses out there? Or that you were more receptive to learning about those things?
00:36:13
Speaker
I mean, yes, I think that in that I couldn't the things that were lacking in my parents or spiritual practice, I couldn't say like, oh, well, it's that's a fault in Judaism because it was just it was both. Right. Right. Right. And then
00:36:30
Speaker
In part, it was the cultural reaction to being interfaith. So like you had kids that would say like, well, you can't be both. And so you kind of double down and you wanna know why you're, not why you're fighting for what you're fighting for, but like, well, why is my identity valid? Why is my identity valid? How can I do that? And so it does make you like a little bit, the questions hit a little deeper that you're asking yourself.
00:36:58
Speaker
I mean, there was a lot of wisdom that turned out to be assumptions, right? Like obviously one of them was where everybody's going to assimilate and nobody's going to be Jewish anymore from 2000. And then there was the big thing like you just alluded to, like the kids will be confused.
00:37:14
Speaker
And I am planning on doing a whole episode called, what about the children? Because I find this so interesting. What I learned, I was a rabbi at the Ohio State University for five years, right after I graduated. And I met so many kids who came from marriages, just like that of your parents. And I would sort of ask them in conversation, if it came up, I'd be like, Hey, are you confused?
00:37:35
Speaker
about what's Jewish and what's Christian. They're like, no, I'm fine. Everything's fine. By and large, if you have loving parents, I believe it's going to be fine. I agree with what you said about that different set of glasses opening things up for people and pushing them to learn more about
Shared Cultural Traditions
00:37:54
Speaker
their own faith. For example, I do think that we see
00:37:58
Speaker
our Judaism in 2023 or growing up in 2005 or whatever it was as the way Judaism is, that we are by and large as a people not educated at all about the layers of how we got this Judaism. And so, for example, when we see Christian congregations praying with a fervent
00:38:23
Speaker
physical devotion, right? You'll see it swaying in the hands and tears and, you know, very physical involvement with prayers. That can make Jewish people feel kind of weird, I think, and I've certainly experienced that. And then you stop and think about, or maybe you find out about the Hasidim, who literally did the exact same thing, except they were singing songs about Shabbos.
00:38:48
Speaker
And learning that the physical experience of what we perceive as divine is not strictly one religion, and it would be silly to imagine that it is. And I think that weddings offer, for me, a really cool window into that also because we have, for example, I'm working on the notes for my episode on probably, honestly, let's be honest, one of
00:39:16
Speaker
several episodes on circling, you get to the chuppah you circle. Do you know who else does that? Greeks and Indians. Oh yeah, it was just that my friend's Indian wedding. Yeah, I do. And Indians even seven times is what you need to do. And why? We've got Greek Orthodox people, right? We've got Indians from all their various religions and faiths and Jews who probably got this from medieval Europe,
00:39:43
Speaker
The idea of walking in circles around somebody clearly has some rooting in what it means to be human. So, yeah, I don't know, interfaith weddings. But most of all, I just think that being the person who is not scary to approach about your interfaith wedding is something that I really value you for because I think a lot of people probably are scared to contact the Kachuba artist. Have you heard anything like that?
00:40:13
Speaker
I think that there is a general feeling of like,
00:40:17
Speaker
Like there's like a timidness. There's apologies. Fiance is not Jewish, but yeah. Yeah, exactly. Or we don't, they don't have Hebrew names or we're not having a rabbi. So that's all completely fine. I found part of the messaging for me was like a lot of artists will say like, Oh yeah, we'll do any, we'll do anyone's good to bow or like, Oh, if you're Jewish or whatever. And like,
00:40:47
Speaker
And it felt kind of like a, oh, yeah, you can come to like kind of thing. And I was like, no, I'm going to be like top line. This is who I'm here for. And like, hopefully that reduces some of that. You can come to versus like a truly interfaith experience.
00:41:03
Speaker
And a lot of that was to my brother in lines that he's a rabbi. His wife is Catholic, like practicing Catholic. Like the kids, kids go to Sunday school and Hebrew school. Wow. So, um, I was talking to them about like what they would have liked to have seen. Um, and they have like an intercultural marriage too. He grew up in the States. She grew up in Sri Lanka. And I was like, what would you have liked to have seen?
00:41:27
Speaker
because they ended up making their own katiba and I was like they were like express like we celebrate like we love this thing that you're doing not
00:41:38
Speaker
It's okay. Oh, you mean what would they have liked to have seen from the people they were talking to? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Their rabbi, when they were looking for maybe a Ketub artist or whatever, was like... Like how exciting? Yeah, exactly. We are here for you. Right. So professionals out there, wedding professionals who are working in a primarily Jewish space or a space that's primarily
00:42:02
Speaker
another religion, but you see often you see Jews. Just take this advice to heart. It can make a world of difference for a couple when they're met with, this is so exciting. I'm so happy for you. Can you tell me more about the interfaith nature of this rather than it's okay. We'll make it work or like, you know, whatever. Have you ever had like Jesus in a katuba?
00:42:28
Speaker
I think one time. Was that like a shocker for you? So for me, yes. When it came in, because like, for me, there's still like, there's the set of people that are going to be looking for this. And I just imagine that it's like, there's not a lot of overlap in that. Like we, we mentioned
00:42:46
Speaker
The word Christianity or Catholicism or Piscallianism is on a lot of them because we have an interfaith text that gives space. So we'll say, okay, we'll build a home and family guided by Jewish and blank. We've had every blank tradition, but I think only one has outright
00:43:06
Speaker
mentioned Jesus. And I will say, like, I really appreciate, this is another, like, to me, like, this is a very millennial reference, but I'm a big Lennon Doyle person. And I feel good about including that because I love how she talks about Jesus. And like, I have not, I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. She, she just talks about, like, that, like, the Jesus that she follows is not the Jesus of, like,
00:43:35
Speaker
church. Jesus is there for the people that have been left behind. Very much. And so again, even though I grew up sometimes going to church because of my dad's family, it wasn't until my adult life that I started to think like, oh, it's interesting to learn about that. Oh, right. But yeah, I think that it's rare
Evolving Jewish Perspectives on Interfaith Marriages
00:44:03
Speaker
Because even on the Jewish side of a katuba, we're not putting, like, it's not a prayer. Correct, yes. So that's where there's not a parallel to match. If it were, I think I'd get that more. But since it's not...
00:44:18
Speaker
a prayer, it's like a practical commitment. Yeah, it's not. We're not naming. We don't even talk about God in a katuba, do we? There's no mention. No, it's more of like a document. Right. And I think tradition, but it's not like, it's not, I don't want to say it's not religious, but it's not, um,
00:44:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's not like theology. Yeah, I think it's the way I explain it a lot of times that it's culturally significant because it's a way of record keeping in a Jewish reality where we have always been forced to abandon our homes or wherever we've made our homes or wherever we've settled down.
00:45:00
Speaker
And so taking the time to write something out, and I really emphasize when I check katubas that the time and the day and the place and the names are right because you want to make your mark.
00:45:16
Speaker
in the heritage of our people. And that's really what, for a lot of people, that's kind of what moves them about it is like, oh, like, yeah. And, and I think the non-Jewish person too, a lot of times is moved by that because they'll, we'll talk about their Hebrew name and I'll give them choices. And there's this, I, there's this sense of, oh, I'm included in this.
00:45:37
Speaker
And I think that we have so much collective as millennials, which I am an elder millennial, barely, barely. But I think we have so much collective trauma as a Jewish generation because between those years, 2000 to 2020, there was this very strong message that even if you marry a Jewish person and you're not Jewish, our attitude towards you is that you are a liability to be mitigated.
00:46:05
Speaker
and not an asset that will make us stronger. And people grow up with that. They've heard people at Seder talking about so-and-so who married this Catholic lady, and isn't that a shame? And probably the kids will be okay, though, and all kinds of stuff that's so ingrained in them. So I think the work that
00:46:27
Speaker
religious wedding professionals have ahead of us, which I would include you and myself because they're the ritual Jewish objects that affect the wedding and the ceremony. And also those people, gosh, what's her name? She makes stuff out of the wedding glass. Like, you know? Oh, I don't know. Yeah. Like her like thing is Jewish wedding. Marcella. Hi, Marcella. Yeah, it's Marcella.
00:46:48
Speaker
But I think that that's, for me, I've been really working on discerning. That's a Catholic word, discerning. What's my purpose? Because I think everybody eventually searches for their why, right? And just working with these couples over the past couple of years and hearing over and over again the implicit apology.
00:47:11
Speaker
and the hedging and the dismissing of the non-Jewish part of the couple that I hope that as a part of my career going forward, that I can just put encouragement of people in interfaith relationships at the forefront. And maybe, maybe by the time our kids are getting married, that will be a little different.
00:47:34
Speaker
There's so much exciting space to me in the Jewish world because the statistics are very scary if you work at a congregation in terms of maintaining the status quo. The status quo is just gone to me. What we grew up with is not going to be, to me, what our kids grow up with.
00:47:55
Speaker
like as someone who didn't fit in that space, like that is thrilling to me. Like there are, I don't want to say experimental, but there are like reconstructionist groups and humanist groups near me. And like, I think if people are having to build a little bit of like, what is the community that I want? And I see a million, like this is one space that Instagram is really inspiring for me. There are so many like college groups and young adult groups that are like,
00:48:24
Speaker
really people are trying to align with like, okay, I want to claim my Jewish identity. I want to practice this. I want to learn about these traditions, like all these traditions that were never mentioned. Like I want to try them on and figure out how I'm going to build my life and keep this part that's meaningful to me and build it. And like, if we're all, I don't want to say we're starting from scratch because we have like a huge history, but if we're starting with like this richness and we're taking away
00:48:52
Speaker
I don't want to say we're taking away institutions. That sounds pretty scary, but we're taking away the ball or having to evolve because across the board, right? Christian Jewish, everyone, like people are just joining or being less congregationally inclined. Then like, what are we going to build from this with our kids? That is like.
00:49:12
Speaker
more inclusive, more joyful, and in a way even more richly rooted in the reality of the traditions. Yeah, I mean you're not in this space quite yet, but I have four children and my youngest, God willing, is becoming a bat mitzvah. She'll turn 12 in April and her bat mitzvah ceremony is scheduled for October.
00:49:33
Speaker
And the sizes of the Bene Mitzvah classes, meaning all the kids who are going to become Barba Mitzvah and celebrate in that year, have shrunk across the board, reformed conservative synagogues so astoundingly that it honestly takes my breath away.
00:49:51
Speaker
Like kids who I've known their parents since they were your daughter's age in preschool, kindergarten together, were talking about their kids, Benne and Misfo, which would be eight years from now, who have now just not done it, it is a little breathtaking. And I have seen synagogues in our area start to adapt to that in kind of incredible ways. It's obviously a whole other episode. But the other thing that
00:50:17
Speaker
is happening a little bit. Like in our house, we have a Friday night open house policy. So kids come here and a lot of kids have just sort of mentioned like, by the way, I'm Jewish or whatever, and really started learning about Jewish stuff like at their friend's houses. And I'm telling them, well, you can maybe have an Aaliyah at
00:50:36
Speaker
our youngest bat mitzvah, and then that can be your bat mitzvah too. And they're like, but I'm not 12. And they're learning so many things about like, well, that's really not what it's about and all that because we coasted on that American Judaism paradigm for so long. And now it's finally becoming unsustainable. The incredible thing to me is also, I feel it, the conservative movement is going to allow interfaith marriages soon. I feel it. Within five years, it's going to become a serious conversation.
00:51:04
Speaker
That's pretty significant. It's pretty significant, especially considering the positions that they were publishing just 20, 30 years ago.
00:51:13
Speaker
So I think that ultimately Judaism, obviously our most important focus always is life. And I think that that obviously is why we're still here, but we have such a strong instinct for survival that we will ultimately adapt to all this too. But what I'm afraid of in the interim is that we will lose a bunch of people because they're just scared of rabbis and synagogues.
00:51:43
Speaker
and and and. So for any interfaith couples who are out there listening and who are just maybe you're hate listening to the Your Jewish Wedding podcast because you came on maybe you're hate listening because you wanted to come on and maybe prove to yourself why it was the right decision to not get a ketubah or why it was why your instincts were totally right that like oh rabbis are trash whatever I
00:52:06
Speaker
Listen, please. I have so much free time. Do you never hate listen or hate read anything? Not since I had a kid. If I really hated a TV show, I will go online to try to find other people who hated it just for vindication. It makes me feel like not crazy. 10 Lasso. Anyway,
00:52:35
Speaker
But I think that it can cause a lot of pain for people who grew up in a Jewish house to find themselves in an engagement where they're probably not going to have a Jewish wedding, but there's something inside of them that's like,
00:52:52
Speaker
but should you though? And so maybe they're like, let me go listen to this bigoted mean rabbi talk about Jewish weddings and how we're not welcome. Okay. If you're one of those people so that I'm confirmed in my decision that like I'm making the right choice, right? I think that's a human impulse. Um, I'm not telling you, you have to have a Jewish wedding and Becca is not here to tell you that you have to have a katuba to be valid or, or even that you can't decide later to get a katuba for your first anniversary or 10th anniversary or whatever. But just to say, um,
00:53:22
Speaker
We want you as part of the Jewish community, and you are part of the Jewish community, no matter what you do. There's no checkboxes. There's no requirements. We're just glad you're here. So if you need to hear confirmation,
00:53:38
Speaker
that you shouldn't be having a Jewish wedding or a katuba. You came to the wrong place. Sorry. Okay. So I know that we're getting to the end of an hour and I know that your time is important and I want to respect it. I want to, I have a couple more fun, fun, less heavy questions right now. Maybe I'll put it in the timestamp that if you want to hear less heavy conversation, fast forward to here. Okay. Have you ever seen one of your katubas signed in person?
00:54:06
Speaker
No, not ever that you had that question in the notes. I racked my brain and I was like, well, no, oh my God, that's not true. No. So I made a Kachuba for a family member. Um, so I wasn't there for the signing, but I was there to see it displayed right there for the signing. Well, it's, it wasn't like a super close family.
00:54:29
Speaker
Becca. Oh, fine. Okay. Yeah. But, but yeah, I don't, that wasn't like a thing. Um, but no, I mean, this is the kind of crazy thing about the internet and we're sort of shifting the business a little bit. Um, because I love the couples that we work with, like every couple that I get to have a conversation with and like, Oh my God, these are my people. Like I, I'm not going to share all the details, but like, they're just amazing. It's such a cliche in the wedding industry.
00:54:54
Speaker
The photographer's like, I love my couples. And they're like, we're not pretending. We love you. They're really good people. Just a quick example. I sent out my first email newsletter. I don't like email marketing. And so I sent out my first one. And it was not even newsletter because I personally sent every one to the people. And it was just the most
00:55:17
Speaker
It was like, it's really hard to know what to say right now. Where are you going for information? Are you OK? Like, oh, that was pretty much it. And I had someone respond that for the last five years, he's been doing a podcast with Israeli and Palestinian voices looking at the conversations that are not being had. He said, I don't know if this is helpful to you, but this is what I've been doing with my life for the last five years. And, oh, thanks. Our katuba got framed last week. It's beautiful. And I was like,
00:55:47
Speaker
And just like every time I have a conversation or a consult, I'm like, let's, how can we wrap you in to this so that people can see this community? But that being said, like a lot of the relationships I have with couples are still just like they buy something online and then we make it and we don't have that dialogue. So we're shifting to like more of a consult-based, our personalization is going to be consult-based so that we talk to everyone just because I want to talk to everyone.
00:56:13
Speaker
Yeah, you want to have that person. I mean, obviously art is an act of creation. And so any piece of art that you create, if it has part of you and your connection with a couple in it, it will be stronger. I believe that. I really do.
00:56:28
Speaker
I'm sorry. I asked because when I have been at Kachuba signing ceremonies and tagged the artist, the artist's reaction is always so intense. And I'm like,
00:56:43
Speaker
It's just you do this all the time. Why are you so? But but what they find is that people don't think through to like tag them and so that they can see that moment. Like I had one by Nava Shoham and I sent her like just a video of them signing. It was not a big deal. And she was like, you don't understand how much this means to me, like how incredible. And so I if you are listening to this, tell your wedding planner
00:57:09
Speaker
to please include your katuba designer on your tags in all of your posts, not for promo. We're not trying to make you advertise for them, but it really is. It's a labor of love. And for them to be able to see that in action is just so incredible, especially when it's halfway across the world.
00:57:29
Speaker
you know, because what better way to find your connection with the Jewish community than to have your katuba designer from Florida that you're signing a katuba she made for you in Amsterdam. And wow, isn't this an incredible, an incredible little religion, right? Okay, so
00:57:45
Speaker
We already talked about memorable custom Catubas, but if you think of anything else, listen, we might have a part two. I really like Becca. I'm enjoying talking to Becca a lot. Sometimes you have an interview and it's like, it's not so much there. You know what I mean? We've got it. This is my first podcast, but I like YouTube. Would you like to be on more podcasts? I would be thrilled. Oh, wow. Okay. So you heard it here. You're the second one of my guests who said that. Oh, I'm not on many podcasts. Why are people not calling you? I don't know.
00:58:11
Speaker
Anyway, I just have been high. OK, so I had a really young kid and I've been hiding behind my work for three years, so I'm climbing out from the from the hole and I'll be out in the world more. You do. Are you OK?
00:58:24
Speaker
Yeah, you're okay. I didn't do well with little children. I was not okay for like 10 years straight. I love the baby phase. Loved it way more. I never expected that thought that I was just going to be in a fog. Loved it. Talker has gotten me. I am quiet in my head person. My daughter talks like please started playing pretend at 18 months and hasn't stopped.
00:58:46
Speaker
Um, yeah, yeah. I had one of those. Yeah. Well, I mean, oh my God, she is everything, but like I do the energy. I'm not like, there's not enough. I don't drink coffee. Oh my goodness. Right now, I literally am eating Trader Joe's coins of the world. The best guilt. I don't know why they couldn't really. Oh, now I should go.
00:59:10
Speaker
We're on our third bag. It's not Hanukkah yet. That's how I'm getting going. But yeah, no, I think she started school this year. So it's okay. Okay. All right. I want you to say, well, you guys, I say, well, I'm good now. Yeah. Teenagers. But I say this to a lot of people who I sort of like tangentially know. And that includes my listeners. If you are feeling any kind of way about
00:59:37
Speaker
parenthood or especially motherhood in those postpartum years where everything is a wild card and you feel like you can't talk to your family or your friends because they will judge you or maybe they'll pass it on and maybe they'll be gossip. You can talk to me because I don't know any of your people. Even if I wanted to gossip about you, I couldn't and I've been there and I remember very vividly
01:00:04
Speaker
a lot of the struggle. So if anybody out there is listening and you guys, you want to talk to somebody and just unload, call Rabbi Leon. We'll get you. Last question for you. What do you wish that you could say about katubas to every couple planning a Jewish or interfaith wedding? This is your message, your megaphone moment.
01:00:24
Speaker
It's a piece of art, not a product. So if it matters to you to have one, even if you like, I encourage you to make like do the research and make it yourself, like do it in the way that feels right to you and try to separate the decision-making from the wedding planning, the shopping.
01:00:44
Speaker
like it's an act of co-creation with you and your partner and maybe also an artist or someone in your community that you love and just come to it with that perspective. Give yourself space to be in that headspace. Maybe it sounds like date night to me. Yeah, for sure. Right. We're always looking for date night ideas. You don't need to go throw axes or
01:01:05
Speaker
Go to the conservatory or whatever you just make it a katuba date and you will it's a little bit like like therapy too I imagine because you're getting right down to it. It's good stuff. Okay, you've already told us about the some of the incredible resources available on your website There's a guide to writing your own katuba
01:01:23
Speaker
which honestly, I have that in my notes of episodes I would like to do. I think you're probably more knowledgeable about it than I am, so I might tap you for that or I might just run through your day. There's other resources. I don't want to tease everything we're working on right now because we have a lot of good resources. If you ever want to come back on and talk about new things, it's a lock. It's not even a question, obviously. They can go to your site. What is that site?
01:01:51
Speaker
foreverepaper.com slash text options that will link you to our guide. Oh, wonderful. And forever is spelled like forever ie paper.com. And that's also your handle on Instagram. Is that right? Is at forever.
01:02:10
Speaker
Okay, and obviously, if anybody's listening to this, it will be in the show notes, but you've heard it here. Becca is not scary. And even if you're not sure that you want one of her katubas, she wants to talk to you about your katuba, no matter where it ends up coming from, because
01:02:27
Speaker
We are slowly discovering a network of Jewish wedding professionals that want you to feel as connected as you would like to be to your tradition, your heritage, and your faith, as well as the same thing for your partner because you deserve that. And I don't want you all to settle for anything less. So thank you, Becca. Anything else you want to add?
01:02:50
Speaker
Nope. I think that's it for today. I really appreciate you taking the time. I'm listening to all of your episodes, sending people to your guides because it is great to really like get the facts before you make the choices. And I think you're putting them out there in an awesome way.
01:03:07
Speaker
you. I have a certain kind of voice, which is not for everyone, but if you're the kind of person who likes to approach things from all kinds of angles, you know, I was ordained by the reconstructionist rabbinical college, so that's my instinct. It's like, what happened in history or whatever? What's even a Qutubah for? Anyway, yeah. And we are hoping that this will be the first of many episodes with Becca. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you.
01:03:33
Speaker
Well everyone, I've had the best time being your rabbi for this episode. I'm so glad you joined me for another little bit of insight into planning your perfect Jewish or interfaith wedding. Until you can smash that glass on your big day, you might as well smash that subscribe button for this podcast. I don't want you to miss a single thing.
01:03:55
Speaker
Remember, you can always find me, Rabbi Leanne, on Instagram. All one word for even more tips, tricks, recommendations, and wisdom on Jewish weddings.
01:04:12
Speaker
If you want to work with me on your wedding, you'll find all the info you need at YourOhioRabbi.com. Until next time, remember, you deserve the perfect wedding for you. Don't settle for anything less.