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013 - Your Ketubah - Tips for Today's Couple
71 Plays1 year ago
You've decided to sign a ketubah! Yay!
So...how can you make it your own?
As we learned in Episode 12, the Ketubah has some very antiquated origins, especially in terms of how it treats women. Plus, I assume the two of you won't be exchanging goats and dowries.
Here's how you can honor the spirit of the ketubah and uphold its original purpose, making it fit your contemporary values and sensibilities.
Transcript here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MBoh7L6CHaL0oYKZZ4wHjnQOAOOi4H31u7sWiFrLWNw/edit?usp=sharing
Don't forget - you can reach me any time at www.yourohiorabbi.com.
Fill out the contact form there if you'd like to work with me on your wedding.
IG: @yourohiorabbi
Send questions for me to answer on this podcast to:
Hope to see you next time!
Remember - there is ALWAYS more learning to do!
<3 Rabbi LeighAnn
Thisisnotaketubah.com
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Transcript
Reviving Ketubas as Art and Tradition
00:00:01
Speaker
So Jewish or Jewish interfaith couples started buying these ketubas and they knew that it was sort of like an old-fashioned thing, but they didn't care. They were like, but this is a beautiful piece of art and it represents our marriage and our commitment to each other. And guess what? It did. And so they started to modify the text because maybe they were feminists or maybe it was an interfaith couple and
00:00:24
Speaker
Even though they knew that a traditional katuba didn't apply to them, they still wanted one. And not only that, they wanted the text to reflect who they were. Are
Introduction to 'Your Jewish Wedding' Podcast
00:00:34
Speaker
you planning a Jewish or interfaith wedding? Are you lost on where to even begin planning the ceremony, let alone finding a rabbi to help you?
00:00:45
Speaker
Well, it doesn't matter whether one of you is Jewish or you're both Jewish. You deserve a guide. So take a deep breath. I promise it will all be okay. Welcome to Your Jewish Wedding with Rabbi Lian. Here, I can be everyone's rabbi, yours too. My guests and I will share everything we know to help make your Jewish or interfaith wedding full of tradition and perfectly yours.
00:01:28
Speaker
Hello, everyone. It's so good to be back here with you all. Once again, we're here on a Friday afternoon, chatting right after I pulled the halas out of the oven. It's Sukkot. I think the weather is finally, finally getting cooler. We're just getting through our third summer, I think, but we're getting there.
00:01:46
Speaker
and Sukkot in October, you can't ask for much more, except to sit down and have a lovely chat with all of you about something that I know a lot of couples. Most Jewish couples, or couples including one Jewish person, have big questions about because it's a bit of a mystifying thing, and that is their katuba.
00:02:07
Speaker
So,
Celebrity Ketuba Artists and Their Impact
00:02:08
Speaker
if you are on Wedding Planning Instagram and you've searched anything about Jewish or interfaith weddings, you have probably come across advertisements or just some really beautiful photos of Ketubah, which is the plural of Ketubah, a Jewish marriage document. It's a traditional thing, but you've seen all the beautiful artwork and if you run around
00:02:31
Speaker
Jewish or Jewish interfaith wedding planning instagram enough you will find out that there are celebrity katuba artists. I know I am very excited every time I officiate a wedding and there is a katuba that is
00:02:48
Speaker
illustrated or painted by an artist that I quote unquote know from Instagram. I actually have a wedding tomorrow with a katuba done by Rochelle and I have been watching her paint her gorgeous katubas for years on Instagram and I finally get to see one in person and I think I even get to sign it. I'm very excited. Anyway, I'll give you an update on that if I remember in the next episode.
Historical Context and Legal Meaning of Ketubas
00:03:13
Speaker
Anyway, if you've seen how beautiful you are, you for sure want one. And you might have an understanding, you might have heard that it's a little bit misogynist maybe, or that it represents a man purchasing a woman. And I have to start out this episode with a disclaimer that that used to be my entire understanding of what a katyuba, a Jewish marriage document was.
00:03:38
Speaker
And I since have learned more as I've worked with couples and done more research into what is a katuba? Where does it come from? What exactly does the language mean? What exactly does that legal document mean? I'm not very good with numbers, but I'm somewhat better at understanding legal stuff. So through that study, I've learned that just like everything else in life and the world, and especially Judaism,
00:04:08
Speaker
There's more than one side to the story. It's, you know, like an octagon or something. But there are a lot of different sides to the way that we can view and interpret this. And just like everything else in Jewish tradition and history, we need to take a look at it in its
00:04:23
Speaker
historical context. So that's what I'm hoping to help you guys do just a little bit during this episode about your katuba for your Jewish or interfaith wedding. What should you be thinking about when you choose one and order one? And what do you need to make sure, from my opinion, what do you need to make sure is in your katuba, no matter who is designing it or writing it. Okay.
00:04:47
Speaker
So I said this in the last episode about a brief and imperfect history of katubas, but in case you saw that title and decided that the episode would be entirely too boring for you to listen to you, I want to make sure to reiterate this one point about katuba. Okay. In the traditional katuba text, written in Aramaic, largely unchanged for the last probably 3000 years. Yes. 3000 years.
00:05:12
Speaker
Okay, not that long. Okay, like 2,200 years. Okay, largely unchanged since then. This Kichuba says in the final paragraph, because it is closing paragraph of legal language for this document.
00:05:27
Speaker
We have completed the act of acquisition from the groom to the bride. So all the stuff that we mentioned above are the conditions for me, Mr. Jewish man, acquiring Miss Jewish woman. Okay. The word acquiring in this context refers to him acquiring the right to be in a marital relationship with her.
00:05:58
Speaker
as a protection for her physical safety and considerations.
00:06:03
Speaker
In other words, he's acquiring the status of her as his wife, acquiring that he is her husband and that he is the only one legally who may have this relationship with her. Of course, it's very nuanced and yes, in more than one nuance, it is misogynistic. However, the tone of it is something that
00:06:30
Speaker
We still have a blessing for in a contemporary Jewish ceremony, and it references that unique physical relationship between the bride and the groom. And I really think it's worth asking ourselves how we can hold on to that in a contemporary Kachuba, okay?
00:06:46
Speaker
So even the rabbis of the Talmud were adamant that, you know, guys, it may look like this means that he's purchasing this woman. That is not what is happening at all. Jews do not believe that you can own a human being. Even when the Torah references slaves, those people were not under ownership of their quote unquote masters. All the more so when you're marrying somebody, you are not purchasing her in any way, shape or form. And I just want to put that out there. I used to think it was different. Now I've learned some more.
00:07:13
Speaker
And if you want to have a conversation about it, like if you have different information you want to educate or if you just want to bring your opinion and see, you know, if I agree or get some conversation going, I would love that. Email me at your Jewish wedding podcast at gmail.com.
00:07:30
Speaker
It's all about the conversation. And as I always say, there is always more learning to do. So we discussed in the last episode that in summary, this marriage document was designed to be protective of the bride in the case of divorce or general clownery by her husband. If things went south, she could get out of the marriage with financial provisions that would last long enough to
The Aramaic Text and Its Legal Implications
00:07:57
Speaker
ensure her survival in that of her children. Okay, cool.
00:08:00
Speaker
In a lot of the katubas, there was also the stipulation that she could own property. If she made any money on her own, she could keep it. All kinds of individual little things that really showed that her opinion was important and what she was owed in that katuba, okay?
00:08:14
Speaker
So one more point about a traditional katuba. Even to this day, the katuba in an Orthodox wedding is traditionally brought, it's rolled up, they put a beautiful ribbon on it. It is brought to the chuppah by the groom and handed to the bride. She holds on to it for a significant part of the ceremony. And that is to display to everybody that the document belongs to her. It is
00:08:37
Speaker
hers to keep safe for her own protection and as a guarantee that her husband will treat her well. And as a symbol of that promise that like, Hey, he's not, this is not just a, I promise to love you and whatever. Like this is a very serious commitment. This is a, it's not only a metaphysical commitment, it's a physical commitment.
00:08:55
Speaker
in the traditional text of the katuba, which is still used to this day. The following stipulations were added about 2000 years ago, where the husband promised in the katuba to work for his wife to honor her, to feed her and to support her faithfully, as is the custom of Jewish men, according to the universal custom of our people. Give her all the necessities of life and conjugal means.
00:09:20
Speaker
So yes, it does include money, but you know, even in ancient times, it included more emotional things, more signs of emotional devotion, and showing that this man was devoted to this woman. So the Kachuba text still says that to this day. Is it mushikashi? The traditional text? No. Does it represent more than money?
00:09:41
Speaker
Yes, it does. And so I think that's worth noting. So even if you guys are considering getting a traditional text of the katuba, and you're feeling guilty because maybe you're like progressive, or you know, you know, you're feminists, or you don't you feel it might be disrespectful to your wife,
Modernizing Ketubas for Contemporary Relationships
00:10:00
Speaker
please
00:10:01
Speaker
do some more reading, do some more research, learn together about it as a couple, make a decision from there, consult somebody who knows because it's not black and white. Yes, there are more contemporary reimaginings, rewritings of the traditional katuba. My personal katuba is a reimagining rewriting that my husband and I, mostly I, did really carefully with a lot of research while I was in rabbinical school. What can I say? We didn't have kids yet. I had a lot more time on my hands, but it was pretty cool.
00:10:31
Speaker
Side note, our keduba is written in Hebrew, not in Aramaic, because that is the language we understood and we did not feel bound to using the traditional Aramaic language, okay? So there's all kinds of flexibility here, but if you feel like part of you wants that traditional text, don't dismiss it out of hand as something that's old and dead, okay? It doesn't have to be old and dead.
00:10:50
Speaker
At this point in the podcast, I will be doing my level best to move forward without the heteronormative language that I've been using for the past 11 minutes or so of this episode and in the entire last episode.
00:11:07
Speaker
Why has my language been so heteronormative, bride and groom? The simple fact that we were mostly talking about historical and traditional iterations of the katuba, which were exclusively for heterosexual couples. Same-sex marriage was not recognized by any katuba at any time in this historical discussion or in the traditional text of a katuba. It just wasn't.
00:11:32
Speaker
A same-sex couple still can't get married, according to the Orthodox movement, still today, okay? So because we were talking about that traditional text still used by Orthodox Jews today, I was using heteronormative language because it really was a bride and groom reference. From this point forward, I will be moving forward, doing my level best to include she-she's, he-he's, same-sex couples.
00:11:54
Speaker
have been getting married in contemporary Judaism for decades. So I just want to make sure that I noted that to let you all know that I was aware of the language I was using and my desire to be inclusive in that way as we move forward. Okay. So I do want to say that the contemporary Ketubah
00:12:18
Speaker
Okay, so we learned in the last episode how katubas were a big bougie deal in the medieval times. Like there were these like rich Jews who had gold leaf all over their katubas and fancy artists. And some of the artists were not even Jewish. They didn't care. They just wanted the best of the best. And it was, you know, preserved perfectly. So we found them hundreds of years later, beautiful. And that kind of really fell out of fashion in probably
00:12:45
Speaker
In conjunction, honestly, with the Enlightenment, where Jews were just doing their best to assimilate. Not all the Jews, obviously, but the Jews who were assimilating into regular societies, so moving to London,
00:13:02
Speaker
living next door to non-Jews, joining parliament, working in businesses on Saturdays. It was no thing. The custom of a marriage contract was a very Jewish thing and not a thing that non-Jews did generally. We talked in the last episode about why things written down are so important and remain so important for the Jewish people.
00:13:24
Speaker
And we'll talk about that a little more in this episode. But just because it was written down didn't mean it had to be art. Okay. So my in-laws, Kachuba, we have on file in our, like, in our, like, firebox in our house because she was able to find it. And it can be important for, like, record keeping if, you know, God forbid we all need to emergency move to Israel or something.
00:13:48
Speaker
The fact that we have that katuba is important for showing status as Jews. She found it in like an envelope in the back of her closet. It was like folded in three. It was colored and I think it had like some reproduction of medieval art around it, like medieval illumination, but it was like a photocopy, like a color copy of it.
00:14:11
Speaker
And as I said, it was like stashed in the back of her closet, okay? Certainly not large, certainly not fancy, not custom text, right? It was, you know, her Hebrew name and her husband's Hebrew name were like written in on blanks. They were not custom added to the text or anything like that. That was sort of the normal thing until probably like the 1990s when the wedding industry started becoming a thing.
00:14:37
Speaker
I don't know if it was like, Erin and I talked about that TLC show, A Wedding Story. Maybe it was because of like more programs on cable TV, the proto internet. People started being able to imagine weddings that were
00:14:53
Speaker
different from the weddings that were like in their little towns, right? So, you know, in the 60s, 70s, I guess everybody used the same florist, everybody's wedding cake was the same. Most people got their wedding dresses from more or less the same boutiques. A wedding was a wedding, it was a wedding. Well, along comes the wedding industry.
00:15:09
Speaker
and changes all that. It is a multi-billion dollar industry today, but the idea of getting different ideas for things that could be unique and special and uniquely, especially meaningful for your particular wedding started to become a thing.
00:15:24
Speaker
And everything related to weddings, as you know, if you are a bride or groom and listening to this podcast, planning on getting married, you know full well. Everything is customized from the invitations to the table linens, to the venue, to the dress, to the favors that you give your bridesmaids, to everything, everything. And also,
00:15:49
Speaker
two katubas. Okay, so katubas started to become basically part of the wedding industry. The Jewish artists were like, what do you guys think? Do you think we could sell big beautiful katubas again, like they used to in the medieval times? And the answer turned out to be yes.
00:16:09
Speaker
So Jewish or Jewish interfaith couples started buying these ketubas and they knew that it was sort of like an old-fashioned thing, but they didn't care. They were like, but this is a beautiful piece of art and it represents our marriage and our commitment to each other. And guess what? It did. And so they started to modify the text because maybe they were feminists or maybe it was an interfaith couple and
00:16:32
Speaker
Even though they knew that a traditional Ketubot didn't apply to them, they still wanted one. And not only that, they wanted the text to reflect who they were. So this resurgence of Ketubot as like a big thing in Jewish weddings, you know, you can knock.
00:16:47
Speaker
all the excesses of a contemporary wedding, all the live long day, for what it's worth. I don't think contemporary weddings are like that bad. I think it's a beautiful thing when people can have a fully custom, beautifully bougie celebration of their new phase in life and the beginning of their lives together as a couple, not obviously not knocking the wedding industry at all. I love working in it and I love meeting all the professionals. I'm so glad katubas are part of it. I have to tell you I am. Why? Because
00:17:17
Speaker
It means that brides and grooms are deeply attached to the katubas they choose, just like they're attached to the flowers they choose and the song they're walking down the aisle to and all this stuff. The fact that a katuba, a traditional
00:17:34
Speaker
legalistic document that stretches back thousands of years is this important to contemporary couples. Gosh, it just warms my heart. I have to tell you, I'm so excited about it. And I'm even more excited because because of Instagram and the internet.
00:17:49
Speaker
There are these days celebrity katuba artists, like I said, and I think that that is something that was also true for medieval Jews. What a trip, guys, that things are so different and yet still so the same as they were done hundreds of years ago. Don't you find that incredible? I do. I'm sitting here like smiling like an idiot over this. I'm so excited. So anyway,
Incorporating Personal Values in Ketubas
00:18:14
Speaker
you might be wondering, should we get a katuba? So if you know that you're uncomfortable with the traditional meaning of a katuba, the traditional text of a katuba, go ahead.
00:18:26
Speaker
online, just Google around, look on katuba.com, search on Etsy. You're going to find so, so many contemporary translations of the katuba text, reimaginings, some that are written in Hebrew, some that were originally written in English and then translated to Hebrew, which I think a bunch of them are. Almost all the contemporary katubas are not even written in Aramaic, they're written in modern Hebrew. Imagine, like how mind blowing. Modern Hebrew has only been a language for like over a hundred years.
00:18:54
Speaker
Right? Hebrew was a dead language until like the late 1800s. So imagine now we have these very, very, very old documents being reimagined. The spirit is the same, but written in a language that was only recently revived within the last couple centuries. How incredible.
00:19:11
Speaker
This is how the Jewish people survive for this long, by the way, guys, we are like, we are just tenacious. So when people are choosing contemporary katuba texts now, they really are putting their personal values, the things that are important to them in their particular relationship.
00:19:30
Speaker
even specific promises they've made to one another. You know, usually people who are choosing a contemporary katuba text do not include mentions of money, which you might argue kills the original purpose of the katuba, right? Which was to protect one of the parties in it and to provide him or her a means to ask for divorce or a grounds to say, listen, this marriage is over.
00:19:58
Speaker
So even though we now enjoy, you know, women enjoy the capability to hold jobs, to make money, to maintain their own livelihoods and to support themselves in God forbid the event of divorce. And now that people usually, okay, both of them bring quote unquote dowries, like you move in together, somebody brings the le cruze, somebody brings the stand mixer, you both brought a dowry, congratulations, right? All things are equal now, okay? So we don't need mentions of money, you might say.
00:20:28
Speaker
However, the contemporary Ketubah text has evolved with, thank goodness, I think the gentle and encouraging guidance of a bunch of rabbis who have told people, listen, even if we're not including actual sums of money, because whatever, because it doesn't reflect the times, because we think it's dehumanizing, for whatever reason, it should still include
00:20:53
Speaker
An echo of these provisions that we talked about are still in a traditional katuba, which is that each person involved in that katuba, the bride and bride, the groom and groom, the bride and groom, are going to promise to work hard for one another, to honor one another, to feed and support one another. Think about what it means to get married, okay?
00:21:18
Speaker
We have so much symbolism of home and so much language of home, right? The chuppah that you stand under, we're going to talk about it in an episode very soon, it represents the home. The idea is that the two of you are forming a new home together. And what is a home? A home is a place where you feel respected, honored, supported, and fed.
00:21:41
Speaker
You know, metaphorically and literally, side note, when my husband goes on a business trip, he eats out at restaurants a lot. A lot of times he's like taking colleagues or partners out for dinner or whatever. And some people might be like so excited at the chance to like eat at these restaurants that you wouldn't normally pay for.
00:22:00
Speaker
You know, we have teenagers in the house. Everything's expensive. So you would think he would be thrilled to like go have these fancy dinners. He can't stand it. He comes home and I am no cook. First of all, I hate cooking. Second of all, I'm not good at it. But I cook, you know, food for people to eat in our house so that we're not always going to Chipotle or whatever.
00:22:18
Speaker
He comes home and he's like, I just love the food at home. And he says, I just love simple food, which is a nod to the fact that I don't cook anything elaborate or fancy, but he actually likes it. So home is a place where even in a traditional katuba, in this Aramaic katuba that actually mentions, we're bringing 200 pieces of silver in exchange for this bride, the fact that it says, I will feed you,
00:22:43
Speaker
It's a very human thing to promise somebody that you are devoted to. It's a very human thing of the most basic of needs. You know, it's, it says, I know you at this most basic of levels in order to be able to feed. And hopefully the, you know, the vast majority of contemporary Kachubas that I see, even the ones that are like,
00:23:08
Speaker
written down in English and translated to Hebrew. So not even, there's like no tie to the traditional katuba. Even if they don't say these words, work on our feed and support you, they still talk about those things, right? There are, you know, it might be in a euphemism, like I will always be a place of comfort for you. I will be there to listen to your problems. But my encouragement for you, if you're looking at a contemporary katuba, you guys know you don't want a traditional one. You want to find a text that like suits you.
00:23:35
Speaker
Think about this echo of the wisdom of Ketubas all the way back from Talmudic times. Try to find one that includes, I will work for you, I will honor you, I will feed you, and I will support faithfully. And ask yourselves, what does that mean? Okay, when you're sitting down and looking at these texts, ask yourselves, what does that mean? And does this Ketubah reflect that as it applies to us?
00:23:58
Speaker
If I was rewriting my katuba, which obviously I can't do and I wouldn't want to do, because God forbid, I'm not getting divorced, I'm not getting married again, I told you guys this. Would I put a reference to my husband's love of simple food in it? Absolutely. Because it shows your commitment to one another in the day-to-day, what you will do to take care of one another. And that goes beyond money. Even the traditional katuba recognized that. It didn't put it front and center, but you can. You can put that front and center in your katuba. And if that's important to you, I really encourage you to do that.
00:24:28
Speaker
Okay, it's not a long episode, you guys, because I'm just going to give you, well, let's take a break. And when we come back, I will talk about the things that I ask for my couples to make sure are included in their katuba.
00:25:02
Speaker
OK, welcome back.
Creating Interfaith Ketubas: Challenges and Personalization
00:25:04
Speaker
So one thing we've been kind of dancing around this whole time is the fact that a traditional katuba is between a Jewish person and a Jewish person. And even if you're like, well, it's whatever, you know, we have a beautiful interfaith relationship. We're so excited to have this interfaith family. We're doing this beautiful interfaith wedding. Rabbi Leon, you're all excited about it. And then they get to the katuba.
00:25:27
Speaker
Now, on websites like katuba.com, there's like, it's very cool. There's like a platform and a form that you guys go through and fill in the blanks. And a lot of it won't make sense to you. Like it asks if your parents are alive still. It asks if one of you converted or, you know, all kinds of stuff, right? It asks all kinds of questions. It asks what time your wedding ceremony is taking place. All of those things really are important for the katuba.
00:25:55
Speaker
And it asks the bride and groom to enter their stuff, and then it requires actually the rabbi to go through and check it, which I love. Anyway, that's gonna be your first awakening as an interfaith couple to the complexities of doing this when one of the partners is not Jewish, okay? So why? Because the kachuba includes each member of the couple's Hebrew name.
00:26:21
Speaker
Now, even if the last time you went to synagogue, if you're Jewish, even if the last time you went to synagogue was your bar mitzvah,
00:26:27
Speaker
You know very well that you have a Hebrew name. Sometimes you might not remember it. Maybe you have to ask your parents. They might not remember it. They might have to ask your bubby, but you have one. A Hebrew name exists in the world that identifies you among the Jewish people. Okay. Your non-Jewish spouse does not have one. And I think that can be a moment of kind of panic for a lot of people. And they're like, uh, uh, what do we do? It feels maybe sometimes to that non-Jewish partner, like she's at a place.
00:26:54
Speaker
Maybe it's kind of the first whiff she's gotten of not belonging here, okay? Please, don't panic. It's going to be okay.
00:27:03
Speaker
The only reason that your names are included there is not to do like the, you know, prove you're not a robot, like verification check, okay, prove you're a Jew, check this box here with your Hebrew, no. It is to identify that these exact people, okay, so Mordechai, Aharon, Ben Shlomo, Be'ahuva,
00:27:28
Speaker
is the name of one guy. This is his name. He's the son of this person and this person. And he's getting married to this other guy.
00:27:38
Speaker
who doesn't have a Hebrew name, but that's fine. We are going to put a name here in Hebrew letters that gives us all that same detail, even though he's not Jewish and his parents aren't Jewish, it's okay. What is the reason for having both those names there? It's to make sure that we understand and we can trace this document back to belonging to one unique pair of individuals.
00:28:05
Speaker
If Mordechai is marrying Trevor, we want to make sure that we know exactly which Mordechai and which Trevor it was. We can do that by including their full name, which according to Jewish custom is the person's name, his son of, his mother, his father, or both of them.
00:28:24
Speaker
So usually the Jewish person in the couple can find his Hebrew name, no problem. He looks at his bar mitzvah certificate, everything's fine. The non-Jewish member of the couple, OK, Trevor, we can write Trevor using Hebrew letters. OK, it's tet, raish, vav, vav, raish, Trevor. There you go. And then he is the son of Angela
00:28:47
Speaker
And Tony, maybe Angela and Tony. Don't those people, they sound like nice moms and dads. I love meeting moms and dads, but I'm excited to meet Angela and Tony if they exist. If your mom and dad's name is Angela and Tony, write me an email, your Jewish wedding podcast at gmail.com. I want to meet them. Okay. So we can write in Hebrew letters, Trevor, Ben, Angela Vettoni. If you're like Rabbi Leon, that's really weird.
00:29:12
Speaker
Angela and Tony are not Hebrew names, or I feel weird putting my non-Jewish parents' names in this Jewish document, fine. Another option is you can write Trevor from the house of, what's your last name, Trevor? Richardson. Okay, Trevor Richardson. So in Hebrew, in a Hebrew formulation, that would be trevered from the house of Richardson.
00:29:32
Speaker
It's when we know your family name, but for whatever reason, we don't have your parents' names. That's the thing that Jews have done forever. We could do it for non-Jews too. And it is often done. I have had non-Jewish partners do both ways.
00:29:45
Speaker
And I believe this weekend's wedding, he's using his mom and dad's name, okay? So it's fine. We just wanna make sure that that Mordechai and that Trevor are these specific Mordechai and Trevers to make sure that we know which man is marrying which man so that some other Trevor can't come forward and claim that he was the Trevor in this katuba, okay? But Rabbi Leon, there aren't that many names. You know, how can we make sure, should we switch? Let's switch names.
00:30:14
Speaker
Okay, Belinda is getting married to Saralea. Okay, so Belinda and Saralea are getting married Mazel Tov and we know there's lots of Belinda's and lots of Saralea's and maybe her Belinda's parents names are like Chris.
00:30:32
Speaker
and Steve, okay? And how many Belinda's daughters of Chris and Steve are there in the world? Probably more than one, okay? But the Ketubah goes on. Okay, even before your names, it mentions the exact date and time in the Hebrew calendar. And then it says, which corresponds with this date and time in the non-Hebrew calendar, it also says the place that you're getting married.
00:30:58
Speaker
So even if the chances were high that Belinda and Saralea, with those exact parents' names, were also getting married.
00:31:06
Speaker
Let's say even this year. How likely is it that Belinda and Saralea were also getting married on the same day and time? Maybe it's possible. Okay, but is there another Belinda and Saralea getting married that day, this time, in this exact place? Probably not. Okay, so there's a reason for that legal formulation. It's to keep good records. Why do the Jewish people have such an obsession with records?
00:31:30
Speaker
Well, when you've had so many genocides, it's kind of important to you to keep records of lifecycle stuff that happen, contracts, all that kind of thing. So that if, God forbid, it happens again, you have a history, you have a basis for reconnecting all that stuff. We really want to make sure all that information in there is correct, however you wish to represent it. And by the way, sometimes
00:31:54
Speaker
One of the brides is not Jewish, but she's planning to convert. I may encourage her to choose a Hebrew name before we put it in the Ketubah. And then that way, her Hebrew name would be recorded in the Ketubah as part of that family. I have done that at least once before. Okay. So these are all conversations we can have.
00:32:15
Speaker
Do not be shy or scared to ask me, okay? If you do convert Belinda and you have not had your name written in the Ketubah, don't worry. There will be documents about your conversion to that shows your name change from Belinda to Brahma or whatever it is. Not your actual name change, but your Hebrew ritual name change, okay?
00:32:34
Speaker
Maybe you want to change your regular name too. But anyhow, those are things that I require from my couples to have date, time, location, and their full names, meaning the names of them and the names of their parents or the family that they come from.
Importance of Accuracy in Ketuba Details
00:32:47
Speaker
I want you to make sure that you have somebody who can read the Hebrew and who is proficient at reading it. Read over your ketubah.
00:32:56
Speaker
In the last calendar year, I have found three katuba with serious mistakes in this important part of the katuba. So either a name, a date, or a place. I had a couple whose katuba said they were getting married in 2002 because the katuba writer forgot the 20.
00:33:12
Speaker
I had another one where the groom's name, like he had two names and they were flip-flopped. So his middle name in Hebrew had been written down as his first name, big catastrophe. And finally, I had one for one of my Pittsburgh weddings where their kajuba said they were getting married in Atlantic city.
00:33:28
Speaker
So now you all can see why I'm so concerned about checking these things because most people are not proficient enough with Hebrew to find these errors. Are these errors an emergency or a disaster? No. It's just the kind of thing that you really want to get right, okay? Think about it like, I don't know, like a birth certificate, right?
00:33:47
Speaker
If Belinda was looking at her birth certificate and found out that it actually on the birth certificate, there was a typo and it said, Melinda, that would feel really weird, wouldn't it? Like you would have this sense that that's not right, that that doesn't represent me. Okay. So my whole life I've been Belinda, my name's Belinda. My dad's called me Belinda, you know, all the time growing up. Now here I am finding out my name's Melinda.
00:34:11
Speaker
So imagine this couple, you know, looking back at their Kachuba and somebody comes to their house and she reads Hebrew alone. She's like, did you guys know you got married in Atlantic City? Uh, no, we didn't. Right. So you really want to make sure those parts are correct. Okay. Um, the other thing that I always insist on is that the end of the Kachuba
00:34:33
Speaker
includes these three words, all this is valid in binding. So that is a Jewish legal phrase that gives the document
00:34:47
Speaker
legality. In other words, this is not a pretty copy of your vows. It's not merely a pretty copy of your vows. It is something that is legally represented, if not binding, according to Jewish law, but vakol shareva chayam means all this is valid in binding. I have asked Ketubah artists to add that to the end. They have complied.
00:35:08
Speaker
Okay, there are some other considerations that you may want to consider that a traditional katuba is not considered kosher, that you may want to add as a consideration to your own katuba. So the spacing of the text, even if you're going to be artsy artsy with the katuba, the text should be written in such a way that it doesn't have enough space to add extras.
00:35:37
Speaker
like after the fact, so that somebody couldn't amend the Ketubah after it's already been signed, okay? Some rabbis have the stipulation that when the Ketubah artist prints the text,
00:35:49
Speaker
that one letter should be left out so that the rabbi can ask for the bride and groom's confirmed consent at the moment of signing of the katuba. And then when the rabbi writes that missing letter, that is like his signature that they accepted this contract, that they accepted this commitment. It's pretty cool, I think.
00:36:12
Speaker
Okay, so all that said, what do we have left as far as the text of the katuba? The signing, and a lot of people have this question about who can sign the katuba.
00:36:25
Speaker
If you are a Jewish person marrying a non-Jewish person, according to the rules of Jewish law, it doesn't cover your kind of wedding. The rules of Jewish marriage in Jewish law are written as applicable to two Jewish people getting married. So if you are a Jewish person marrying a non-Jewish person, you are already outside of that understanding. And as such, I personally
00:36:54
Speaker
I'm not opposed to non-Jewish people signing your ketubah.
00:36:58
Speaker
because the understood purpose of a katuba witness is somebody who has seen the two of you accept what was written in this katuba willingly and made vows accordingly. And so that person is kind of like a godfather or godmother for your marriage. Like she kind of sees if you aren't upholding your end of the bargain and kind of test to that in the case of a dispute, God forbid, or, you know, if you're asking like,
00:37:26
Speaker
gosh, am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing? She could say like, you know, just reflect on your katuba. I was there when you accepted it. I signed it. Like, it's an important thing. You know, it's that kind of a vibe. So the only requirement that I have for the people signing your katuba is not the sex of the person. And it's not the Jewish status of the person, meaning it can be a man or a woman. It can be a non Jew signing your katuba, as long as that person is not related to you.
00:37:55
Speaker
If the person is related to you, there's a possibility. And this is understood in the general sense of Jewish contracts, like everywhere. If my sister signs a legal document as a witness on my behalf, she has an interest in me benefiting from that contract. Because she's my ride or die, right? That's how it's supposed to be. Your family members are supposed to ride or die for you.
00:38:16
Speaker
So if there's a dispute, whose side are they gonna take? Of course, they're gonna take your side. So it should be people that you consider truly to be an impartial representative of somebody who can be a witness to the promises that you just made. Like, yep, I was there. I saw that promise they made. I can attest to that. So traditionally, it's at least two witnesses. Traditionally, the bride and groom do not sign that katuba at all because their names are in it and they accepted it.
00:38:45
Speaker
And that's what the people are signing to attest to. Do you understand? So also, traditionally, the rabbi doesn't sign it either because the rabbi is presiding over the ceremony. Of course, she was a witness to it.
00:38:59
Speaker
However, the contemporary nature of Ketubot, it's going to hang on your wall. It is a record, yes, and it is a legal document, yes, but it's also a beautiful memory of your wedding day. And so you want to have signatures that represent that slice of time, right?
00:39:16
Speaker
Typically in contemporary couture boat, I see both partners signing on the dotted line. And there is a cool sense of finality to that. Like it makes it super official, right? Because you got your marriage license that was a few days before your wedding. It feels kind of cool to like have something signed seal delivered before your ceremony, I think. So it's pretty common for brides and grooms to sign their couture boat these days. It feels like a very special moment. They get really excited.
00:39:44
Speaker
And it feels like very Jewishly official too, which it is. And then they kind of want to remember the rabbi, or if there's any questions about their marriage, it's nice to have the rabbi's name there so they can always remember. You know, who knows? If I officiated your wedding, who knows if you'll remember my name in 10 years. You probably have like a couple toddlers, you won't remember your own name, okay? So it's kind of nice to have the rabbi's name there. So typically I will sign it. You have an option to sign in Hebrew or in English.
00:40:10
Speaker
Again, for the same reasons, a lot of people like to sign in Hebrew because it feels very official. I can help with the Hebrew spelling of names. I can write examples. I usually bring printed examples for the witnesses if I can get their Hebrew names before the fact.
00:40:25
Speaker
So ask me, I can help with all of that. No worries, no stress. I can help with transliterating your name into Hebrew. So Trevor, I just spelled Trevor's name right here on the podcast. I can write that out for him so he knows how to write Trevor in Hebrew letters. It's very sweet. I love it when couples do this, but you don't have to. Your English name is fine because Jews have always done stuff in the vernacular, you guys. The traditional katuba is written in Aramaic. Why? That was the language Jews spoke.
00:40:52
Speaker
If you speak English, sign your name in English. It's not a big deal. But if you like the Jewiness of signing your name in Hebrew, even though it's printed up above in your katuba, you can sign it down below. That's fine. And I will be happy to help you. Fun times. As far as the art goes, I, you know, I don't have much to say about the art except that literally anything goes.
Artistic Personalization of Ketubas
00:41:10
Speaker
Okay. I'm going to put some notes in some links in the show notes. There's this website called thisisnotacatuba.com. Like go there right now.
00:41:19
Speaker
There are like Van Gogh katubas. There are comic book katubas. There's like Jackson Pollock inspired katubas. Oh, I wrote in my notes here. There's a Charlie Brown katuba on ecatuba.com.
00:41:34
Speaker
There's a Tim Burton Kachuba. Okay, so, I mean, gosh, who doesn't love Tim Burton? But anyway, the artwork on the Kachuba, I really want to bring this home, especially to my interfaith couples. Are you listening? This Kachuba,
00:41:49
Speaker
is not a Jewish thing that you are signing. It's not a Jewish thing that you're symbolically participating in, okay? Just like your wedding ceremony, your katuba equally represents both of you. Think back to the pieces of silver and the goats and the mattresses and whatever in the original dowry, right? The original katuba. Let's go back to the original spirit of the katuba. It said exactly what each person was bringing to the marriage and what each person was agreeing to contribute.
00:42:18
Speaker
So if you're having artwork on your katuba, it should represent both of you. So if you are Greek Orthodox and you're getting married to a Jewish person, maybe don't put a cross on the katuba, okay? Probably definitely don't. But use Greek symbols or even like the architecture of Greek churches or something.
00:42:43
Speaker
If you're Indian, there are, I saw at least one katuba with like a Henna design and it had like Henna hands around it. There are katubas that can represent where you're from. Like, even if it's not like a, you know, super ethnic place, like I've seen them with subway maps, with city skylines of the city you're both from or the city you met.
00:43:02
Speaker
Okay, and if you are choosing a katuba with whatever significance it is, I don't know, maybe it has your dog on it, okay? Maybe, I don't know, maybe there's a special tree in your backyard that you think is so beautiful, you never wanna forget it. You send a picture of it to the artist and she paints it on your katuba, amazing.
00:43:20
Speaker
I want to encourage you because this is a document of your relationship, of your life, of the love you have for one another. And you know, guys, life is fleeting. Okay. It seems like a long time, but we don't, humans don't last that long and memories don't last that long. Like how many of you can tell me stories of your great, great grandparents? Okay. So if you have a katuba maid that is personal to you in any way, I would encourage you to ask the artist
00:43:43
Speaker
to include your reflection on the symbolism of the artwork, why you chose it, what it means, and to just maybe place it on like some archival paper and stick it to the back of the katuba so that if people discover it in five, 600 years, a thousand years, what a gift to have that explanation of how it fits you perfectly, right?
00:44:09
Speaker
So just please consider doing that. And I know if you're a katuba artist and you're hearing that and you think it's a good idea or you'd be willing to do that for couples, please chime in your Jewish wedding podcast at gmail.com. Let me know. I'd be happy to read your comment or have you on the show even. That would be wonderful. So the katuba signing ceremony, I guess, last but definitely not least, because that's when it actually happens. I've seen it happen in janitor's closets. It doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to be highly decorated. Usually,
00:44:35
Speaker
I will try to at least grab some of the bridesmaids bouquets or something to sort of zhuzh up the space because almost always the katuba signing is a very sweet moment because there is that sense of like, oh my gosh, this is like sign seal delivered. We're really doing the thing. I've seen parents get so excited, even if their kids didn't. There can be a lot of unexpected joy.
00:45:00
Speaker
in the katuba signing room. So if you're one of my couples, I always ask you, should we go through any kind of embellishment or ceremony or readings or should I invite participation of the people who are gathered there to watch you sign your katuba? We always go through that. That's always a possibility. So I always want to make sure that whatever that katuba means to you, we honor that.
00:45:23
Speaker
And even if it's just like you're signing a katuba because your grandma signed a katuba and she told you how excited she was for you to do it, you know what, then grandma's going to be there or the spirit of grandma will be there. And even if it's not directly important to you, it'll be important for that reason, right? There are all kinds of reasons to have a katuba. None of them are wrong. Okay. Unless you think it's like actual purchasing a human and then we'll have to have a talk. Okay.
00:45:47
Speaker
But as always, if you have any questions about anything we've covered today, I don't know if you could tell, but I have been smiling for this whole recording because I love katubas. I love artwork, the artwork of the katuba.
00:46:03
Speaker
I'm really, really hoping to have at least one, quote, unquote, celebrity Catuba designer on this podcast to talk about her process and what it means to her and all that. I just love the whole thing. I think that the meaning of Catuba, it is written, is just so important.
00:46:20
Speaker
in its Jewish context and in today's context. We lose a lot. Everything's digital, you know? We lose a lot of connection to records and what it means to willingly participate, to write your name in a record of a line of people, right? Because your parents are
00:46:37
Speaker
written inside of that cotuba also, right? You're placing yourself as part of the Jewish family tree, like quite literally. Yes, even you, Trevor, and Belinda, okay? You married a Jew, you're in. Okay, we've talked about this before. And I just think it's such a beautiful thing, and it can be so personal, and it's one of the few things in Jewish tradition that has pretty much always been intensely personal.
00:47:01
Speaker
And I think that's an incredible thing to be aware of and to grab onto. So please, if you have any questions about the Ketubah process, please email me your Jewish wedding podcast at gmail.com or you can find me on Instagram now at your Jewish wedding podcast.
00:47:16
Speaker
I would love to hear from you. Your questions, your curiosity, your desire to learn more can only ever make this show better. And that's why I'm so excited to hear from you because I love these conversations and I love this opportunity to learn about Jewish wedding stuff together with you guys so that you have the best ceremony, the most fitting ceremony and the most perfect day, at least Jewishly wise, that you possibly can. And remember, there is always more learning to do. So until next time.
00:47:47
Speaker
Well everyone, I've had the best time being your rabbi for this episode. I'm so glad you joined me for another little bit of insight into planning your perfect Jewish or interfaith wedding. Until you can smash that glass on your big day, you might as well smash that subscribe button for this podcast. I don't want you to miss a single thing.
00:48:09
Speaker
Remember, you can always find me, Rabbi Leanne, on Instagram, at, at, your Ohio rabbi. All one word for even more tips, tricks, recommendations, and wisdom on Jewish weddings.
00:48:26
Speaker
If you want to work with me on your wedding, you'll find all the info you need at YourOhioRabbi.com. Until next time, remember, you deserve the perfect wedding for you. Don't settle for anything less.