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22 - Circling: Origins and Intercultural Connections image

22 - Circling: Origins and Intercultural Connections

S3 E22 · Your Jewish Wedding
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54 Plays10 months ago

The traditional circling at a Jewish wedding has so much history and so many different meanings. As fun as its origins may be (you'll see!) I get most excited about how other cultures incorporate circling into their wedding ceremonies, too. 

Please note: something went awry with the break music in editing. I don't really anticipate many, if any, of you caring. :) 

Shownotes:

The first six minutes or so of this podcast are just me talking about the weather and scented candles.

~ 19 minutes: Kreissmesser article:

https://feminismandreligion.com/2020/01/30/the-kreismesser-women-and-magic-swords-in-jewish-tradition-by-jill-hammer/

~

Don't forget - you can reach me (Rabbi LeighAnn) any time at www.yourohiorabbi.com or everyonesfavoriterabbi.com or rabbileighann.com !

Fill out the contact form there if you'd like to work with me on your wedding. There are SO many options, from Ketubah consulting to ceremony planning. If there's something you have in mind, don't hesitate to ask - I'm here to help!

IG: @yourohiorabbi

Podcast IG: @yourjewishweddingpodcast

Send questions for me to answer on this podcast to:

[email protected]

Hope to see you next time! Remember - there is ALWAYS more learning to do!

<3 Rabbi LeighAnn

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Transcript

Introduction & Purpose

00:00:01
Speaker
Are you planning a Jewish or interfaith wedding? Are you lost on where to even begin planning the ceremony, let alone finding a rabbi to help you?
00:00:12
Speaker
Well, it doesn't matter whether one of you is Jewish or you're both Jewish. You deserve a guide. So take a deep breath. I promise it will all be okay. Welcome to Your Jewish Wedding with Rabbi Lian. Here, I can be everyone's rabbi, yours too. My guests and I will share everything we know to help make your Jewish or interfaith wedding full of tradition and perfectly yours.
00:00:57
Speaker
Well hello everyone. It is so good to be here with you today.

Weather & Personal Reflections

00:01:01
Speaker
It has been weeks since I sat in front of my microphone and I have to say I am so happy to be back even though you know I've got to open every episode chatting about the weather and it is absolutely awful.
00:01:16
Speaker
It is cold. And you know that I like it when it's cold, but not when it's also dark and dreary and wet. You know, this is the time of the year when you need to have indoor shoes and outdoor shoes. Now don't get me started. I know that I'm always supposed to have indoor shoes and outdoor shoes, and I am trying to become
00:01:39
Speaker
cleaner, tidier person in this new secular year, so I'm working on it. That is a difficult habit for me personally to get into. Anyhow, the nastiness, the cold, wet mud, it's too much, it's too much. And for those of you who have seasonal affective disorder, like I do, this is when the mood starts to go downhill. You might think that it's around winter solstice, which is obviously the day that we have the least
00:02:09
Speaker
sunlight of the entire year. But no, it starts, you start to feel nasty in January. And then by March, you would just weep to see a bloom in your garden or feel a worm ray of sunshine. So buckle up everyone. We are here, but I will tell you something.
00:02:30
Speaker
The children are all at school. I have a full day of podcasting today. I'm sitting here chatting with you. In the morning, I'm having my third cup of coffee. In the afternoon, I'm going to be interviewing God willing Reverend Mercy, who is an interfaith and bilingual officiant. So look forward to her interview later on. Now here's the important thing. I do have a candle burning. It's a coconut cream pie candle.
00:02:58
Speaker
I love it, but do you know what I really love? Is this year's Bath and Body Works Happy Hanukkah Candle. If you flip over this candle on the bottom, the name of the scent, get ready for this, is Sufganiyot. No, it's not jelly donuts. It literally says on the bottom of this candle Sufganiyot. Now here's my problem.
00:03:23
Speaker
I have a lot of, let's just say I have a large stock of candles. Okay. We're not going to say I'm a candle hoarder because I have found places for all of my stock of candles to be stored. Okay.
00:03:38
Speaker
But I'm trying, once again, to be a better person, cut back on the candles, so I bought one Happy Hanukkah candle from Bath and Body Works. At the beginning of the season, when I tell you it smells exactly like Sufganio,
00:03:56
Speaker
And the throw of the candle, which means how much scent it gives off when you burn it, is so good. Well, of course, I went back and bought another one to have on hand for my stash, you know? So fine, then it was candle day, which is just another candle sale day. I think the candles were down to like $11 or something, so I bought a few more. Well now, wouldn't you know it?
00:04:23
Speaker
It's the semi-annual sale. These Sufganiyo candles are selling for $6 in some sense. I don't know. Is it $7? Something insane. Now, you guys are saying, Rabbi Lian, you clearly need help. Well, I do burn them. And I do have a policy. I don't like to spend much more than $10 per candle, okay? And they burn for 40 hours, 30, 40 hours.
00:04:52
Speaker
And they do last a long time in this house because my husband, God bless him, he has issues with a lot of sense. So we're always just doing this sort of dance of like, which ones can you deal with? Maybe he's going to be out of the house for a while. So I burn one anyhow. They last a long time. Long story short.
00:05:14
Speaker
I purchased eight candles at the semiannual sale price and God help me. I went back to the website right before I hopped on here. I was like, oh, I'll just tell the listeners whether they're on sale as if I'm even going to post this before February, right? Because I have episodes in queue. You guys aren't even going to hear this until the Sufganiyo candle is long, long gone. Anyway, if you're one of my Columbus, Ohio couples and I'm going to meet you in person and you want a Sufganiyo candle, let me know. I'll bring you one.
00:05:44
Speaker
because just to show you how not of a hoarder I am, how I am not a hoarder. I'm not a candle hoarder. I'm willing to share the love. Actually, one of my couples getting married, I think you guys are getting married in October this year. I sent them a candle in their welcome package. That's how healthy I am. That's how well adjusted. Anyway, here we are five minutes into this podcast and I'm still talking about the weather and candles. So that's what you get when you sit down to listen to a podcast with a middle aged lady.
00:06:13
Speaker
who has nerdy interests and wants her house to smell good all the time. Okay.

The Circling Ritual Explained

00:06:19
Speaker
Well, we're here today, everyone, to speak about the ritual of circling in a Jewish wedding. Now, as I record this episode, I'm co-working, which means I'm working alongside somebody else. And I told her, Cassandra, if you're listening, I told Cassandra, I was going to be done recording within the next 50 minutes. I think we all know.
00:06:43
Speaker
that that's almost certainly not going to happen. Listen, the circling episode started just like so many other episodes where I was like, I'll just write a few quick notes. It's not that big of a deal. Not such a huge topic to talk about, no problem. I have still not decided whether I'm going to split this episode into two parts.
00:07:03
Speaker
I think it's really interesting, by the way, that the episodes that we're splitting into two and three parts, it's following a pattern, isn't it? We're learning about the history and the origins of each custom or prayer and then there always seems to be this whole other part. It takes me a long time to go through the way that modern couples are adapting this ritual.
00:07:27
Speaker
Now, is this healthy in a podcasting sense? Maybe not so much. And maybe some of you are annoyed by all the split up episodes, but let's look on the bright side. In the sense of Judaism, I think this can only be a sign of a healthy ethno religion slash culture that is always growing and changing. And you know, that's what we're here for. So whether this is one or two parts of an episode,
00:07:53
Speaker
I am glad you're here. I'm happy to be here with you. And we will get through this together, just like circling, which seems to be circling is kind of like, like the ACT of a Jewish wedding ceremony. Let me explain. Can you tell my teenagers are getting ready to take their high school standardized test for the first time? So it's like, nobody likes.
00:08:19
Speaker
The idea of having to do this thing, they're not even sure is like necessary or important, but everybody knows that it's part of a Jewish wedding. Okay. When the couple arrives at the chippah, there is some form of one of them or both of them walking in circles around the other. Whenever I talk to couples about this ritual,
00:08:42
Speaker
I'm telling you, it's like they knew it was coming. They knew I would want to know about it. There's a little bit of a cringe phase. Oh, do we have to do that? I think I have had maybe two couples total.
00:08:54
Speaker
enthusiastically be like, yes, Rabbi Leanne, we are here for it. Okay. I will also tell you preview of this, the back half of the episode, which is going to be modern slash contemporary couples. This is a unique Jewish wedding ritual for me personally, because most of them I'm not.
00:09:15
Speaker
like invested in at all but this one I have to tell you it's pretty close to my heart for a number of reasons and not in a not in a personal way by the way in a professional way I really truly love this ritual of the people who get to the huppah about to get married who do the circling
00:09:39
Speaker
There's just something about it that I love. And I actually know what that something is. There are several somethings and we will talk about it. But before we get into that, you all know how every topic starts on this podcast. We are going to go back to the origins of this custom of circling the bride circling the groom or the groom circling the bride or bride, bride, groom, groom.
00:10:05
Speaker
We do not, you guys are waiting for me to say, let's go back to Bible times. Guess what? I'm not going to say that in this episode. So this is one of those customs that we are almost certain is non-religious in origin. And in fact, just what I like to call jubilantious,
00:10:30
Speaker
So it's a superstitious thing that became popular in the Jewish community and continues in some way, shape, or form to this day. If you guys think for just a second, you can think of lots of Jewish superstitions. You know, there's saying Kenahara when you say something good or something nice. They're saying God willing all the time, like I do, you know, that you have to make sure you say it because otherwise you might jinx it, right? There's, um,
00:11:00
Speaker
wearing hamzas and evil eyes.
00:11:03
Speaker
in charms and stuff like that. You eat certain food at certain times of year, especially around the

Superstitions & Historical Context

00:11:08
Speaker
new year. There's all these kinds of food you're supposed to eat. The challah gets shaped in a certain way. And in fact, even before, that's the thing on Rosh Hashanah, around the new year, there's a circular challah, obviously, but even before Passover, there's a custom of baking challah in the shape of a key, which is supposed to bring good financial luck. There's all kinds of Jew superstitions that we do not find.
00:11:30
Speaker
in the Torah, or indeed in any book of religious Jewish law. In fact, there are two ways that we know about Jupressitious customs. Number one, we know them because we do them. And they were passed down to us generations and hundreds of generations. And we don't really know much about them or where they came from. We just know that we're supposed to do them. And
00:11:55
Speaker
even feel uncomfortable sometimes if we don't do the duperstitious thing, okay? And that is 100% me.
00:12:02
Speaker
And the other way that we know about them is that they are mentioned in passing in books of Jewish law. Now, sometimes speaking of superstitions in recorded Jewish texts, right? So like the Talmud or later books of Jewish law, like the Shul Hanaru, or even Midrashim, which are basically recorded lore of Jewish stories, usually based in the Bible, okay?
00:12:29
Speaker
So we read about these customs in tangentially in those texts. Okay. The custom of circling is one of those that we find in that way. Okay. So the little bit of online research I did, and of course I'm going to link all of this in the show notes so that you guys can click around very fascinating is tells us that the examples of Jewish customs showing the use of a magic circle.
00:12:59
Speaker
goes back actually to birth protection rituals in Alsace, which I believe is in France, right? That's in France, and their surrounding area. As early as 1560, so this is a 16th century observation, there's a text by Rav Naftali Hirsch ben Eliezer Treves, and he talked about a custom in which a circle was drawn around a woman giving birth,
00:13:27
Speaker
to protect her from Lilith and demons. Okay. So, oh gosh. You know, I should invite Abby from political psych with Abby back on the podcast to talk about Lilith and demons, which has very little to do with Jewish weddings, but obviously it has a little bit to do cause I'm talking about it, but truly a fascinating part of Jewish legend and lore is Lilith who
00:13:57
Speaker
is in particular is a demon that is derived from actually the biblical story of Adam and Eve. The idea of her is derived from that. And she is known for being a really powerful demon who steals babies.
00:14:12
Speaker
or who hurts little babies or mothers giving birth, right? And so great was the fear of Lilith and understandably so, right? In a time when maternal mortality, infant mortality, death and childbirth was very common and a very real, real danger.
00:14:34
Speaker
that people would be really concerned about this and think up ways to feel that they had done their due diligence to protect themselves from it. So Rav Naftali Trevis notes that when a woman is in childbirth, you would get something called a crossmester or a Christmester
00:14:57
Speaker
Sounds like Christ has nothing to do with Christ. It means circle knife. And I'm like, what is this? I'm trying to Google it. The name for this knife, it's like a knife or a sword. But from what I can tell, what this text is talking about is not a sword like Abby might be interested in. It's more like a little, it's like a
00:15:23
Speaker
It's like a cross between a long knife and like a side, like the end is like...
00:15:29
Speaker
curved up, I'm linking a scholarly article I found about Jewish women and swords, so cool. And you can see a picture of one there. The particular picture that's included, by the way, has 18 evil eyes carved onto the blade. This thing is so cool that I, I went to Etsy to see if anybody is making these today. Cause I'm like, maybe I should have.
00:15:58
Speaker
a jupress dishes, childbirth, knife, sword, even though this is a promise, first and foremost to myself and also to you, the listener, that I will not be giving birth to any more babies. Okay. That time has passed long past. Okay. Fast forward a little bit. Actually 200 years. There's an historian, Paul Christian Kirchner,
00:16:27
Speaker
So I don't know, Kirchner, is he Jewish or not? Cause his middle name's Christian. Probably not. Okay. People who know things about last names. I think Kirchner is something to do with cherries in German. Okay. Um, so he has written though, apparently a description of Jewish birthing customs, and it includes an illustration showing the childbirth bed with a knife or a sword like next to it.
00:16:53
Speaker
And another historian also describes a sword placed near the pregnant woman in the 18th century in that same time period, indicating the likelihood that this custom continued through the centuries. And there are also oral accounts from 20th century Baden-Württemberg in a publication by the Jewish Museum of Switzerland, which talks about making circling movements with a knife in order to protect a woman in childbirth.
00:17:22
Speaker
I have given birth to four children. Why did I not know about any of this? I mean, I think it's actually probably a pretty good thing because if I had known about it,
00:17:36
Speaker
Already I was there in the delivery room with like a book of Psalms and like a red string, you know, those are other Jewish childbirth superstitions. And I felt good about those things, right? My goodness, do you think I would have even been allowed to bring a sword into the Ohio State University labor and delivery ward?
00:17:58
Speaker
I don't think, okay. So I guess it's good that I didn't know about them, but this is a pretty common thing. The idea of physically making a circle around someone to protect him or her is hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years old. If we heard about it from this rabbi in Alsace in 1560, and it probably existed for hundreds of years before that too, right? This is a phenomenon that we've discussed a few times on this podcast.
00:18:26
Speaker
Now the custom doesn't go back to Bible times. However, people have found connections between this custom of making a circle that references back to biblical verses in order to explain significance.

Understanding Ritual Origins

00:18:42
Speaker
Okay. So in Jeremiah chapter 31 verse 22, it says, a woman shall go around a man and
00:18:51
Speaker
in Hosea too, which by the way, Hosea is like a super anti-feminist book of the Bible, minor prophet. This guy had some real issues and I wouldn't recommend reading Hosea during your wedding ceremony like at all. Although you know me, we can make it work, but mentions making circles in reference to betrothal. Okay. So there's also this idea that making circles,
00:19:21
Speaker
sort of seals the deal in some way. It's a marker of completion. It's a symbol of wholeness. We'll talk about that more when we get to the symbolism. However, even though we have those references in the Bible to making circles in the context of being engaged or being betrothed or being promised or dedicated to someone,
00:19:50
Speaker
I want us to be really sure that we don't mistake
00:19:57
Speaker
the attributed meaning of a ritual with the origins of that ritual or the historical significance. And why is that so important to me? Because I am here to help couples learn about and understand Jewish wedding rituals, right? And if we make the mistake of saying that we know that this ritual means this and that we do it because of the verse in Jeremiah,
00:20:28
Speaker
That's an explanation that will likely not resonate with a large number of couples, especially if we pull out this hoshea verse from a book that is really, really, you know, misogynist would be putting it lightly, okay? Automatically, we are going to squash a great many couples interest in performing this ritual, including this ritual in their ceremony, okay?
00:20:55
Speaker
And when we do that, we are severing a connection to the true reason that we're fairly certain couples and communities incorporated this ritual into weddings, which
00:21:10
Speaker
actually has nothing to do with god or symbolism of marriage it's all about protection right so when we think about it that way we're able to connect to the ritual on many many many more levels and through many many more facets because i think
00:21:30
Speaker
You know, it's not a super common phenomenon for even Jewish people to have a close connection with the idea of the book of Jeremiah or the message of the book of Jeremiah, right? But it is one of the most basic human impulses to create protection for ourselves and for other people.
00:21:52
Speaker
And when we look at the ritual of circling in that way, in this very historical cultural context that we think we caught it from, we are able to connect to it in a much more base way, in a much more emotional way. And in a way that we can imagine is a direct line to our ancestors.
00:22:18
Speaker
And now all of a sudden the reasons for doing that ritual, I think have changed dramatically. So this is the first of many, many PSAs that I will probably do as part of my explanations of the customs of the Jewish wedding ceremony.
00:22:35
Speaker
Please, let's not confuse origins with symbolism or traditions with meaning, right?

Traditions & Cultural Meanings

00:22:47
Speaker
Traditions and rituals receive their meaning from the people who perform them, not the other way around.
00:22:55
Speaker
If you're a social anthropologist and you're listening to this podcast and you are either like shaking your head one way or another, agreeing with me or not, please email me and listen, if you are up for it in any way, shape or form, please come on the podcast. I would really love to hear an anthropologist's take on
00:23:15
Speaker
You know, obviously Jewish wedding customs, but wedding customs in general that are specific to different cultures and faiths. I really would just love to learn more about this, and I think my listeners would too. Okay. And just like any other custom we have as a people, there are so many variations. If you are not following a lady named Yoheved Gross on Instagram, I believe that her job
00:23:38
Speaker
is that she styles Orthodox Jewish brides. And I'm not entirely sure, but I think that she helps them get into their shetal, which is the wig that covers their hair once they're married, between the wedding and the reception if they so desire. I think that's what she does.
00:24:02
Speaker
I should, do you think I should message her and ask her to come on the podcast? I'm a little nervous that she wouldn't, I don't know her at all. So I guess that means yes, Rabbi Leon, you should message her because we should seek to know more, right? That's what I'm always saying. There's always more learning to do. Yes. Okay. So I will message her that that's a public promise on the recorded on the podcast. I'll message you have a gross. Anyway, she shows off a lot of Jewish wedding customs on her Instagram page through her reels.
00:24:31
Speaker
And she posted something a few weeks ago, which I did not know about the ritual of circling, which is that in the Skver and Lubavitch, Chabad-Lubavitch communities, these are both dynasties within a Hasidic Jewish tradition, okay? So you'll hear people call Hasidim ultra-orthodox Jews, which I don't know, that term just sounds so like
00:24:59
Speaker
really judgmental and also kind of like a cleaning product, maybe. So I don't really love the term ultra Orthodox Jews for some reason. And I listen also to the Ask a Jew podcast.
00:25:11
Speaker
If you are at all interested in Jewish conversation or Jewish life, please pause this right now. Go search for the Ask a Jew podcast. It is two women. One Hialeah is a Hasidic Jewish woman who also is the executive director, I believe, of her Hillel Jewish Student Center on campus. This job is so involved.
00:25:37
Speaker
I don't know how she has time to breathe, let alone podcasts, but anyway, I'm very impressed by her. And Yael, who is a secular Israeli woman who works in media and who has been in the army, and I believe she lives in New York now, they have all kinds of conversations. Anyway, I think in the last episode of Ask a Jew, I think Hialeah said she doesn't like ultra-orthodox either, that term.
00:25:58
Speaker
I don't know. If you are ultra-orthodox and you're listening to this, email me and tell me if you like the term or if it annoys you, your Jewish wedding podcast at gmail.com. All right.
00:26:09
Speaker
Anyhow, let's go back. Was that our first big tangent? Almost certainly it was not our first big tangent of the episode. Here you are, you're back again. Even though you know this is going to happen, okay. In the Square and Lubavitch factions of Hasidic Jews, so we're talking about very, very detailed observance, intense observance of Judaism,
00:26:35
Speaker
It is a tradition for all four of a bride's parents to accompany her as she circles the groom under the haba. And this bride groom stuff, we're gonna talk about that in a second when we talk about procedure for how to do this. We'll talk about it more in what is almost certain to be part two of this episode or the next episode because, well, by my count, we are here at already 28 minutes.
00:27:02
Speaker
It's whatever. You know, who doesn't like an extra podcast episode to listen to while they're doing chores or walking the dog or whatever? So, you'll have it said that it is a tradition in this community that all four parents accompany the bride while she's circling the groom.
00:27:21
Speaker
And another variation that I found is that even though most couples will do a clockwise circle, in some places it is considered good luck and in fact very important to only walk counterclockwise. Okay, so those are traditional variations.
00:27:38
Speaker
Obviously, we will talk about modern variations in the next episode. Lastly, in videos or photos of Orthodox weddings or more observant or traditional weddings, I almost always see the bride walking with her mother and the groom's mother and the women are holding a candle in like a little hurricane shade or whatever. And I tried looking up why that is that they carry them and there were some vague references to
00:28:08
Speaker
You know the symbolism of light in Jewish culture and this reading by the Baal Shem Tov that I think I mentioned Maybe in the last episode I recorded solo. I'll include it in the show notes lastly in most traditions The number of circles is seven and we'll talk about some explanations for that in the next episode But in some communities the number of circles is three
00:28:32
Speaker
Because in that verse in Hosea in chapter two, this is the explanation people give. It says, I will betrothe you to me, quote unquote, I will betrothe you to me three times. So that is why in some communities, apparently it is three circles instead of seven. So keep that in your back pocket. And when we get to the next episode about variations and the ways that modern couples tackle this ritual, it could be an explanation for you if you like it. Okay.
00:28:59
Speaker
So those are some of the variations on circling under the Khapa or in front of the Khapa that we see in a more traditional Orthodox context. So you can see that I've tacked this onto the discussion about origins because I want to really drive home the point that when people ask what is the right way to do this ritual,
00:29:21
Speaker
that you all understand that the quote-unquote right way doesn't exist even in the most traditional, the most old country, the most orthodox of settings, okay? We are an interesting and varied people and we pick up our customs from all around. Remember what I'm always saying? The Jews love to be fashion and this ritual of circling
00:29:44
Speaker
is no exception to the way that our customs and behaviors have shifted and changed depending on where we lived, where we came from, and what feels like the right thing to us or what we're doing to honor the way that our parents and our grandparents did things.

Circling Across Cultures

00:30:02
Speaker
So we're going to take a short break and I'm going to expand our conversation
00:30:07
Speaker
about the origins of this ritual by touching a little bit on the ways that we see circling show up in the wedding traditions of other cultures and faiths. Welcome back. I have to tell you all, I adore the ritual of circling at a Jewish wedding.
00:30:27
Speaker
purely because of the many explanations and sort of vibes that go along with it, which again, we are going to talk about in the next episode, but I do think that I'm going to post that episode like quickly after this one. So if anybody's like dying to hear all the reasons and explanations for the ritual and the variations on it, you won't have to wait too long. No promises, bleeneter, but that's what I'm thinking.
00:30:57
Speaker
So one of the reasons that I love this ritual so much, especially as a rabbi who officiates a lot of interfaith weddings, is that it is such common symbolism and even practice across cultures, particular to a wedding. This blows my mind when I think about how wonderful it is.
00:31:23
Speaker
You know, it's so cliche to say, oh, we have so much more in common than things that we have not in common. Well, I have to tell you, in a Jewish wedding, there's kind of a lot of stuff that other weddings don't have.
00:31:37
Speaker
Okay. That's just, that's the fact of the matter. I don't know what else to tell you. So when we have something that other cultures and faiths literally do almost the exact same thing in their wedding ceremonies, it is so exciting because then if you are a Jewish person and you happen to be marrying somebody who comes from that culture or that faith, think of how powerful it is.
00:32:02
Speaker
that your people in your faith going back generations have been doing this same ritual as your beloved's family culture faith going back generations, living in the world almost parallel to each other in this one aspect of the wedding ceremony.
00:32:24
Speaker
Gosh, maybe it's just my family's love for Into the Spider-Verse and parallel universes, you guys, but I think that this is just one of the coolest things that happens. It speaks to the deeper impulses of our humanity, that when we think of ways to symbolize what it means for two people to come together,
00:32:46
Speaker
people of the Jewish faith and people in Greek culture and people all over India, humongous country of India, all are walking in circles at their wedding. What a cool piece of knowledge to carry with you that yes, we do have so many differences, but when you drill down, sometimes you find things that independently
00:33:16
Speaker
right? Without hardly any communication across centuries and centuries between Jews and Greeks and Indians that tie us together. There's that little thread of connection. I love it. So the specifics, there are lots of interreligious and intercultural connections in Greek weddings. There are at least two circles and usually three from my understanding. I should have father Demetrius, who is my,
00:33:45
Speaker
a Greek Orthodox priest buddy here in Columbus, Ohio. I should have him come on the podcast. Shouldn't I? We officiated a wedding together a couple of years ago. He was not together. He came up and gave a blessing, but gosh, what a fun guy. And he knew so much as you would expect a priest to know, I guess. Anyhow, during the Greek Orthodox wedding, this is referred to as according to Google AI. Okay. The dance of Isaiah.
00:34:13
Speaker
or sometimes it occurs during the procession. And Google says, during an Orthodox wedding, the priest leads the couple in a circle around the table or the altar three times. The priest sings hymns and holds the gospels in his hand. And as the couple completes each circle, they may kiss across. This is seen as a religious dance.
00:34:34
Speaker
And while wearing it, oh, the couple is also wearing the Stefano, which I think is like, it's almost kind of like the lasso, I think, in South American, Hispanic wedding traditions, where it's like a garland that ties the two of them together. Oh no, the Stefano, see, I need to do better research. Okay, the Stefano is maybe a crown? I'm not sure.
00:35:04
Speaker
Regardless of what it is, the best man and or maid of honor will swap it back and forth three times to mark the beginning of the couple's journey together. Now that I think about Greek weddings, I think they each wear a crown, so maybe there's a switching of the crowns.
00:35:20
Speaker
Again, though, we have this crown and this exchanging of this circular form between the two people that indicates some kind of protection. Yes. But also joining them together, which of course also we see in the rings. And obviously we will have an episode on rings, at least one episode of rings. Right. And while the couple walks, while the couple does circles, it is customary for guests to throw rice at them.
00:35:52
Speaker
And then there's another circle at the Greek Orthodox traditional reception called a sirtaki and the guests hold hands and dance in a circle. Hey, have you guys heard of that ritual before or have you seen some amazing wedding reception pictures from Jewish weddings of guests dancing in circles? Yes, you have. Okay. I mean, Greece is really close to the land of Israel, right?
00:36:16
Speaker
Maybe Greeks like to be fashioned just as much as Jews, and that's where we both got this whole thing about dancing in circles and walking in circles, okay? But, but, there are also Indian wedding traditions that involve circling. Now you all heard me geek out about Indian weddings already because I was talking about the Mandap and how similar it is to the Khubba. If you are a Jewish person marrying an Indian person,
00:36:38
Speaker
Congratulations, because obviously Jews and Indians are both incredible groups of people and cultures and religions. Indian's not a religion, I know that. But also because your wedding planning is going to go so easily. We have so many things in common between Jewish wedding ceremonies and Indian wedding ceremonies. And if you are a Jewish person marrying an Indian person, please email me. Listen, even if you don't want me to officiate the wedding, you have priests or whatever for that.
00:37:06
Speaker
or your cousin's doing it or whatever, please invite me. I want to see. I've never been invited to an Indian wedding. Yes, I know they last hours and hours. Yes, I know I need to bring snacks. I will. I promise I'll be a good guest. I'm not going to complain. I just want to come see it. Okay. All right. So in North Indian weddings, so India is a humongous country in case you're like geographically illiterate.
00:37:33
Speaker
India is a humongous country, which means that the customs of the people who lived in India, like very widely from place to place in India. So in North Indian weddings at the beginning of the ceremony, the couple walks seven circles around a sacred fire.

Pagan Customs & Protective Circles

00:37:50
Speaker
The fire symbolizes purity and this and sustaining life.
00:37:56
Speaker
And Jewish weddings are all about life too. We don't have fire, not so much. Sometimes we have candles. But listen, you could see how easily we could make this all work, can't you? All right. Each circle that the couple makes around this fire represents a specific blessing that they're asking of the gods. Or I guess some people say that they are also making promises.
00:38:19
Speaker
So, the blessings are for Dharma, which is righteousness, Artha, which is prosperity, Kama, which is for love, fertility, and family, and Moksha is for spiritual liberation. I don't know if I'm pronouncing these right. I try my best. Okay. There's an Indian custom from a different location or custom where the couple circles the sacred fire four times.
00:38:42
Speaker
And finally, at least in my notes, in a Southern Indian custom, the saptapadi, the couple takes seven steps together to signify their seven vows. Thank you, Google AI, once again.
00:38:55
Speaker
Now, the most prominent circle walking customs that I found and that I know of involve Greek Orthodox weddings and Indian weddings. Obviously, if you know of others or want to talk about others, please, please email me your Jewish wedding podcast at gmail.com and come talk to me about it.
00:39:12
Speaker
Finally though, I was thinking to myself, I was like, I think that there's something in pagan weddings. Obviously there's like a hand fasting, but apparently during that hand fasting, it is customary for the guests to stand around the couple in a circle while they bind hand. So it's a little bit of a sort of inside out situation where instead of the couple walking in the circles, it's their guests circling them, but there's still this vibe of protectiveness and this idea that we are
00:39:43
Speaker
holding them in a separate individual space. And that's a wonderful place to leave off on this episode, this discussion of the origins
00:39:54
Speaker
and the cultural commonalities of circling in the wedding ceremony. There's so much to talk about in terms of significance and in the way that modern couples adapt this ritual to their own weddings, that we are going to talk about it in the next episode, okay?

Engagement & Participation

00:40:11
Speaker
And I know you're so excited for it. Like I said, I will try to post it quickly after this one instead of waiting a whole week, but, you know, blemeter, no promises.
00:40:21
Speaker
In the meantime, if you are enjoying these chats with me, and I want you to know that I really do view this as just a chance for you and I to sit together and chat a little bit. I obviously would love to have listeners come and actually chat with me on the podcast. So if that's you, email me your Jewish wedding podcast at gmail.com.
00:40:42
Speaker
And just come talk, you know? I think that there's a lot of pressure in the podcasting world to have, like, a schedule and episodes and topics and notes and whatever. But I think just as much, if I can get sentimental or maybe philosophical with you all for a moment, I think that in our culture, we have a problem. And it's that we're not connected enough. We don't have the type of lifestyle that we used to, which allowed us to spend time together talking.
00:41:09
Speaker
in common spaces it's so in common now to get a chance to sit and just chat with somebody that you love talking to you or that you care about you know we're scheduling coffee dates and girls weekends and mom play dates whatever
00:41:25
Speaker
just try to carve out the space to chat with one another. But the problem is we're doing that weeks in advance. And I think it's a very real human need to be able to connect with other humans and talk about just everyday kind of stuff or stuff that we think is interesting or stuff that gets us excited. And I think that it's okay for a podcast to just be that. And obviously this podcast has a topic. It's your Jewish wedding podcast. And we're talking about Jewish weddings.
00:41:54
Speaker
Also, obviously, there is a lot of tangents and I tell you all about my favorite candles and what the weather's like and what my dogs are doing and I think that that's fine too. Anyway, if you have found some value entertainment warmth, a place to be and to feel comfortable and to feel supported and held and heard on this podcast, please consider taking a moment to
00:42:19
Speaker
Leave me a rating, obviously five stars is best, but whatever you think I deserve, obviously. Or a kind review, it doesn't have to be a top-notch A-plus review, but a kind review. What that really does, aside from feeding my ego, which doesn't really need much to eat these days, honestly, I'm a middle-aged lady.
00:42:39
Speaker
If somebody out there loathes my podcast and needs to tell me about it, it might make me sad for a moment, but it won't ruin my day even. So I don't need your good reviews personally. You know who does need them, though? People who are like you, who are looking for a Jewish voice, who will tell them that they are welcome and that supports them and encourages them through the process of planning a Jewish wedding, planning a Jewish life with their beloved.
00:43:07
Speaker
When you leave a rating or a review, it helps those people find this little space that we've carved out in the podcasting realm, okay? And so more than me appreciating them, think about the people like you who might also appreciate it. And who knows, maybe one day you'll meet them or maybe one day you'll say, oh, we both listened to that podcast. How disorganized and crazy is that rabbi? But what a lot of fun also too, right?
00:43:35
Speaker
If you would like to be a guest on this podcast, if you are a wedding vendor or an expert on Jewish weddings or a social anthropologist or a nerd, and you would like to talk about any aspect of cultural wedding traditions or contemporary wedding traditions,
00:43:50
Speaker
or even very specific topics that have to do with weddings at all, email me at your Jewish wedding podcast at gmail.com. I would love to have you come onto the podcast and ask any of my guests. We have a great time here. It's very chill. It's very fun. And I think we both get a lot out of it. If you are planning a Jewish wedding or if you have planned a Jewish wedding in any capacity, Jewish or Jewish interfaith wedding, right? Please email me and come chat with me on the podcast. Everybody wants to hear about weddings.
00:44:19
Speaker
Who doesn't like to hear about somebody's wedding? And in particular, you know, I say it all the time, but population speaking, there are just not that many Jews in the world. And so when you find somebody else who has been involved in a Jewish wedding in any way, you get kind of excited. So let's chat. And I mean, not to brag or not to like dangle a carrot in front of you, but sometimes I send little presents to the people who have been guests on my podcast and that brings me great joy. And I think it brings them a little bit of joy too. So anyway,
00:44:49
Speaker
You know where to find me, your Jewish wedding podcast at gmail.com. If you would like to work together on your Jewish wedding or your Jewish interfaith wedding, I'm currently expanding the number of ways in which people can work with me on their Jewish wedding. So keep a lookout for that on my website, yourohioRabbi.com or everyone's favoriteRabbi.com. You can find me there as well. Same website, shared URL.
00:45:14
Speaker
and go to the little section of the menu that says contact, just drop me a message. They come to my regular Gmail inbox through the website. I'll reply to your regular email. It's not like we're going to be communicating through some weird website. Okay, don't worry. Or find me on Instagram at your Ohio rabbi. The podcast has its own Instagram.
00:45:34
Speaker
at your Jewish wedding podcast. So until next time, when we actually talk about how you can actually do this actual ritual at your actual Jewish wedding, thank you so much for being here with me. I've had a wonderful time. And remember, there is always more learning to do.
00:45:53
Speaker
Well, everyone, I have had the best time being your rabbi for this episode. I'm so glad you joined me for another little bit of insight into planning your perfect Jewish or interfaith wedding. Until you can smash that glass on your big day, you might as well smash that subscribe button for this podcast. I don't want you to miss a single thing.
00:46:15
Speaker
Remember, you can always find me, Rabbi Lian, on Instagram. All one word for even more tips, tricks, recommendations, and wisdom on Jewish weddings.
00:46:32
Speaker
If you want to work with me on your wedding, you'll find all the info you need at yourohioRabbi.com. Until next time, remember, you deserve the perfect wedding for you. Don't settle for anything less.