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#116 Milena Warner | Finding Balance: The Role of Collaboration in Career Growth
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Milena Warner is an accomplished Talent and People leader with extensive experience in building and scaling high-performing teams. As a strategic partner to business leaders, she is passionate about creating inclusive and empowering environments that unlock potential and drive sustainable growth. With a proven track record in talent strategy, leadership development, and positive culture transformation, Milena is dedicated to fostering workplaces where people and businesses thrive together.
Shownotes
00:00 - Intro & Context
06:50 - The Importance of Collaboration and Balance
11:41 - Overcoming Personal Barriers and Self-Doubt
16:42 - Understanding Power Dynamics in the Workplace
21:55 - Practical Tips for Building Confidence and Success
Links
Guest Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/milenadwarner/
Yeliz Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yeliz-castillo/
Yeliz e-mail: yeliz.castillo@pplwise.com
pplwise: https://pplwise.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Women in Male-Dominated Fields
00:00:06
Speaker
But I think the the overall message here should be that we should work together. And, you know, there should be support on both sides.
00:00:17
Speaker
And just because we're women, we should not, you know, make a hype about not wanting to work in a male-dominant industry, but rather try to find a change and and a solution to make it better.
00:00:29
Speaker
you know what I mean? I think this is yeah the way forward. It doesn't have to be... So in your perspective, against the current...
Balancing Strengths and Authenticity for Success
00:00:36
Speaker
It he can literally just be about balance and everyone playing to the best of their abilities, their potential, their talent. Bring to the table who you are exactly as you are, but the best version of it, the kind version that is yeah wanting to be there for everybody and open to understand and listen to as a woman, there is true power in being feminine.
00:00:58
Speaker
i I worked for a CEO directly and I really loved that she would go into a very heavy board meeting, a very male dominant environment where she's even in a country where women have very little to no rights in a gorgeous dress. yeah There is power in being truly yourself and there is power in being truly kind. And these two can go together hand in hand.
00:01:26
Speaker
Totally agree. Absolutely agree. And in your opinion from, obviously you were sharing that in your current job that most support comes from made counterparts, what would you say have been like the challenges in terms of working through that stigma, you know?
Challenges and Success in Fintech and Financial Services
00:01:49
Speaker
Okay, so Milena, hi. and So today's topic is obviously a very interesting one. And um before we start, I would like to clarify and underline that this is not against any specific...
00:02:09
Speaker
different type of person or group of people. And um we just want to give different perspectives. I think that's very important for us to say.
00:02:20
Speaker
and but obviously you will clarify this as well. um But yeah, today's topic is how to be successful in a male dominant industry. And what my first question about this would be, why is this important to you?
00:02:36
Speaker
Hey, Elise, thank you so much for inviting me um to be a part of this incredible podcast series. and This is important because we live in a day and age where, let's be real, for example, childcare is at crazy high costs.
00:02:52
Speaker
So you you have to have both parents working very so often or all the time. and And that's not unique just to the UK. You know, the US market is very similar. So for people that maybe want not compromise career and family, they have to consider that success is a part of that wholesome experience.
Gender Balance and High-Level Challenges
00:03:13
Speaker
um It's important even just for being satisfied within yourself. Should you not want to have children, whatever life journey you have chosen for yourself, you have to consider that at some point you may have to and be the odd one out.
00:03:29
Speaker
And for women, that is often being a part of ah of an industry that is with more male dominance. For example, the fintech industry, financial services, um the tech industry.
00:03:43
Speaker
However, I must say that um as of late, I've noticed such positive changes in the stats. For example, right now, the company that I work for has very good balance. In fact, in favor of women, 52% um of the population working for the business is women. And we represent both technology, we represent FinTech and financial services.
00:04:08
Speaker
So it's incredible to see that there is a shift. But um as we know, if you look at the stats going up the ladder, more senior you get. um the more narrow it becomes um when it comes to the data of being very positive. You see a lot more um white ah males um leading leading the
Collaboration and Career Focus in Male-Dominated Fields
00:04:32
Speaker
organization. So it is important that you know how to be successful in in that organization.
00:04:38
Speaker
in that field and and in in in your day-to-day job. And I definitely want to um come with and exactly what Yeliz says from the perspective that it isn't either or we're not for or against.
00:04:53
Speaker
ah We most definitely come as just professionals who want to empower you from the place of this is what works for us. And for me, what has always worked is being true to to to the foundation of your end goal and motivation.
00:05:10
Speaker
um So as a woman that comes from, um um I would say, um a foreign background in the UK, and Bulgarian Jewish and um I had to hustle a lot in my career very earlier on completely on my own I quickly realized that you want to make allies anybody that is willing to help you you want to make friends and that doesn't exclude or include different um groups of people so in my experience to put it short you have to be very focused on where you want to be in your career
00:05:50
Speaker
Go for it. Be transparent with yourself. Be transparent with everybody around you and do not compromise on that. And in fact, I want to say that within male-dominant industries that have always been a part of to um deliver for our clients or for the brands I've represented, and men have been instrumental.
00:06:10
Speaker
at just giving help even in my new job right now. Most of the the help I've got has been from my colleagues that are male. So and it is amazing to see that this is very much embraced and reciprocated from everybody and everyone wants to be um pushing someone that will do the same for them.
The Role of Support Systems in Career Success
00:06:32
Speaker
And last but not least, I must share that my success in my career most definitely um possible only because of the backing I have from my husband.
00:06:44
Speaker
So for me, success happens firstly at home. It happens with the people you surround yourself with, with your family. And um having that place of truth and alignment with your immediate circle of people personally and professionally um is is a very good start.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree with you. I feel there is a stigma that we always want as women, you know, just like a female empowering house, you know, and or like ah a female powerhouse, you know, when we're in the workplace and we're all against men and men should be out and whatever. But I totally agree. I feel it's the combination of both.
00:07:25
Speaker
I think Like, I don't want to make this about the gender, but I think, you know, obviously like also with but given times and there's obviously for a lot of people, not just two genders, but multiple. So um and I don't want to go into this discussion, but generally, like if we just talk about a traditional man and female kind of side, um,
00:07:46
Speaker
i I think it's the combination of both that actually creates the success, whether this is at home or this is, you know, in the workplace, because both sides can bring so many valuable skills and perspectives I think that's what every company
Diverse Skills and Perspectives in Achieving Success
00:08:04
Speaker
needs. In a leadership position, IC level, junior level, you know, I think that's really the goal.
00:08:11
Speaker
Obviously, there are always times where there might be more male or more more female, but it's more about, you know, finding a way working through difficult challenges, you know, on a day-to-day basis with both, right? Like it shouldn't, I feel like this whole topic about male and and female or, you know, whatever other genders we're talking about now, really has taken out of perspective almost because it shouldn't be about that. You know, I think there are real issues, of course, and and there are real um unfair situations happening. I'm not...
00:08:50
Speaker
you know denying those and that I think a different topic but I think the the overall message here should be that we should work together and you know there should be support on both sides and just because we're women we should not you know, make a hype about not wanting to work in a male dominant industry, but rather try to find a change and and a solution to make it better.
00:09:15
Speaker
you know what I mean? I think this is yeah the way forward. It doesn't have to be... So in your perspective, against the current... It he can literally just be about balance and everyone playing to the best of their abilities, their potential, their talent. Bring to the table who you are exactly as you are, but the best version of it, the kind version that is yeah wanting to be there for everybody.
00:09:39
Speaker
and open to understand and listen as a woman, there is true power in being feminine. i I worked for a CEO directly and I really loved that she would go into a very heavy board meeting, a very male dominant environment where she's even in a country where women have very little to no rights in a gorgeous dress. yeah There is power in being truly yourself and there is power in being truly kind. And...
00:10:08
Speaker
these two can go together hand in hand. Totally agree. Absolutely agree. And in your opinion, from obviously you were sharing that in your current job that most support comes from made counterparts, what would you say have been like the challenges in terms of working through that stigma, you know, that I think also like, you know, I want to take this from a different perspective. I feel, you know, once you join a group of feminists, let's say, or people who are like, yeah, we, you know, more women and no men or almost kind of this, you know, headline, know,
00:10:48
Speaker
What do you think are the challenges to kind of showcase what you really think or like what
Mindset and Tools for Success in Challenging Industries
00:10:52
Speaker
your opinion is, right? By saying, no, we need to work together. There should be a balance. What do you think, or have you had ah challenge actually with this thought?
00:11:02
Speaker
Amazing question. Let's go back to the beginning where I mentioned that i I come from a different background. For example, English is not my first language. At the beginning when I was starting in the UK in the recruitment, a very unique boutique, small agency. Again, a man gave me an opportunity. He hired me and I started from scratch being trained up on the job.
00:11:25
Speaker
And so often I will have the right idea, I will have the right approach, but I will be self-conscious about maybe my accent or the way I will be perceived because there is obviously there is a cultural appropriation for every immigrant. We know that we we want to be um integrated and liked, especially by the locals, especially by those that sound local and well-established, whether it's going to be the area, organization, we want to be accepted.
00:11:54
Speaker
um And it
00:11:57
Speaker
it It suddenly just dawned on me that I can't be pregnant with my own thoughts and ideas and desires and ambitions forever. And I have to learn to express them. And it starts and it starts by just doing it.
00:12:11
Speaker
And you're going to make mistakes. And that's fine. That's absolutely fantastic. Just... Be okay with making mistakes and just know this is priceless because you will never learn more than you will from your own mistakes.
00:12:26
Speaker
But you have to voice your opinions, ideas, spot a problem. Go for it. converse with your colleagues about it, look for a solution.
00:12:37
Speaker
And the the more actually you're active in your career and you achieve, the lesser okay and approval you will receive from the general public.
00:12:48
Speaker
You only get that from the most exceptional players in the team, the organization or whatever you're part of. So, Yeah, it's about overcoming your own little voice in your head where we begin, um i think.
00:13:03
Speaker
And then you keep on pushing forward. It doesn't matter what personality type you are. And I've spent a lot of time studying this topic because it fascinates me. I love people. This is why I do recruitment, because I just love the material, the matter of people.
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah. It doesn't matter what personality you have, what circumstances you have, you will fight your own battle in your head and you just have to push forward and go, okay, this is it. I'm going to do my absolute best.
00:13:29
Speaker
And then whatever I don't know, i will compensate with learning, with hard work. And I'll go to the right people or the wrong people and I will find the solution.
00:13:41
Speaker
But it's about that relentless pursuit of we need to grow. We need to revolutionize things. And adapt, as you can say. You just adapt to what you need to do.
00:13:53
Speaker
but
00:13:56
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And would you think, Yeah. ah Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you. and Just while you were talking, like i I actually have this kind of observation and maybe kind of linking it to recruitment.
00:14:11
Speaker
And i think I would just like to take to have your take on this. So obviously, you know, everyone who doesn't know recruitment, maybe just to explain when there is a final interview or a case study stage, there's usually a debrief after with all the interviewers.
00:14:29
Speaker
And, um you know, you would then go through talking about um everyone's view and get everyone's feedback on the candidate. And then there will, there would be like a, like a decision made basically.
00:14:41
Speaker
And what we try to do in these debriefs are like trying to spot m biases and making sure that everyone is aligned and, you know, just making sure that the the decision is basically fair made one.
00:14:54
Speaker
And what I personally experience a lot is when the and decision maker is a male person, that if let's say the hiring manager or the interviewers generally are female mainly, m but if the decision maker is a male.
00:15:18
Speaker
And let's say I usually start off with everyone who has been interviewed, sorry, who has interviewed. And at the end, I ask the decision maker for their opinion.
00:15:29
Speaker
What honestly 80, 90% happens is everyone gives their opinion and let's say the put that that the decision or like that the feedback is mainly positive. If the decision maker is male and he says something and rather negative about the candidate, the complete opinion and the decision about this candidate, 80, 90% changes.
00:15:53
Speaker
changes And I only, and I have pattern in my head and I've watched this in different organizations that I worked in different cultural backgrounds, but there is a pattern I feel.
00:16:07
Speaker
And I would like to know if you have spotted this as well, where you feel there is maybe a cultural, maybe a biological, I don't know, or maybe even a society, so like, like a,
00:16:19
Speaker
society-based reason that we do get influenced by a male counterpart in in in one way or another. And I'm just spotting not running it and not as and not as a negative point, but I just want to spot this to kind of maybe bring out this bias that we might have subconsciously.
00:16:40
Speaker
Okay, so there is a reason why I started by certainly suggesting mindset and confidence. You have to, you have to come from a place of truth because that's unbeatable.
00:16:51
Speaker
You're already working on a solid ground. Nothing can beat that. You know, you've put in the work, you've put in the research, you've got the data. So then when you have that situation, you can focus on what's outside of you.
00:17:04
Speaker
And now you have this... colleague Let's say it's a male, because it can be even the other way around, because let's be honest, it could be a positive ah bias if if it was more dominant, you know, female room.
00:17:18
Speaker
You know, it can be in any scenario, but you have this person that is now hijacking the narrative ah from where it was meant to go. it in an ideal fair scenario.
00:17:31
Speaker
Now, what you need to do is you're focusing on the room and who's there. And it's very helpful to be able to recognize what sort of character you're dealing with. um And there is a very good...
00:17:43
Speaker
personal mentor of mine that um i I know I'm going to meet for one day. Her name is Evie Pomporis. um So she's an ex-CIA agent from the Special Services in America.
00:17:56
Speaker
um So she talks about that a lot. you have different types of people in every conversation. And ideally we want to adopt these four types in different, um, settings and different conversations, you have to be able to recognize it.
00:18:10
Speaker
So you have a lion, you have a mouse, you have a lion, mouse, dinosaur, and, um, there was one more type. I'm sorry. I wasn't prepared to give that example necessarily.
00:18:23
Speaker
Um, But the idea is when you have a lion, the rest of the crowd, most likely in the group setting, will become a mouse. um And ah you're going to also have to adopt to be what works with this.
00:18:40
Speaker
And then if it's a dinosaur type of approach, you have to be a dinosaur with a dinosaur. So um there is a science to this. And you're just going to have to be very good at being confident and expressing your opinion, getting it out there in the best way that it's easily understood reciprocated and ultimately leads to resolution that is fair for everybody.
00:19:07
Speaker
So that involves you've already done your data research, you're ready to present it and you're ready to deliver it in a way that matches the profile, the meeting, and the setting that you're a part of, I would say.
00:19:23
Speaker
and that And that is not always going to deliver the outcome you're aiming for. But I think having that preparation at any point given, not because somebody is against us or something is going to go wrong, but having these stats, having this back-end confidence,
00:19:42
Speaker
then will help you to to quickly be on your toes, ready to give your peace. Especially if you feel a little bit more um in the situation of this meeting is being hijacked or, um oh, I've got a dinosaur in front of me. Now I'm going to be a dinosaur, be a bit more direct. i'm I'm the good dinosaur. i'm not I'm not going to eat you alive because I'm i'm fighting the good fight.
00:20:08
Speaker
I would say that's what I would do yeah personally. Yeah. know And like, I think like, you know, why you're saying it's like, i'm I'm literally looking back into my journey, you know, as a recruiter. And I remember in the very beginning when I started this job, I was, I think, constantly the mouse, I guess, in terms of, you know, obviously, like, not just because I come ah come from an agency recruitment. So it's like, you kind of go,
00:20:33
Speaker
after the client and you try to convince the client. So then you you obviously try to please the client. And then naturally there is like this power, m you know, and this this this power shift because you want something from them and you have to prove yourself. So naturally you kind of go into this, okay, I'm going to deliver.
00:20:50
Speaker
And I had to really learn obviously over time. And, but then also with the confidence that grew within me and of, you know, I know what I'm doing. i know how I have to do things. And now it's like more on an eye level. So I guess now I'm a dinosaur. i mean, I don't know all the the meaning behind these, but like it's hard. And I'm i'm just mentioning this because I feel and this is maybe a common issue a lot, you know, ah like throughout a lot of different things.
00:21:17
Speaker
type of groups m or or like people, you know, who maybe start in this job or are in sales generally, you know, it could it doesn't need to be recruitment by anything and where you might feel a bit more intimidated by your male, you know, colleagues or stakeholders and but then I think it kind of has to come back to as you said like you know growing the confidence like believing in yourself and and trying to to look at okay what do I deliver what what do I know and and you know like how I deal with that rather than um actually making it a power game I think um but yeah very interesting like I noticed sorry
00:21:59
Speaker
Oh, sorry. um It is. It is a power game. and then we're not And we're not even making it. It is a power dynamic, as you said, because at some point you just you just have to deliver in the ranks.
00:22:12
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. m Yeah, well, I would have one more question. And that is, what would be your top three tips for someone who might feel...
00:22:27
Speaker
bit more like a mouse using the terminology that you use, or I don't want to even say that, but just someone who feels a bit more intimidated in an industry that is not in their comfort zone of, you know, people they feel like connected to emotionally or, or, you know, career-wise even generally.
00:22:46
Speaker
What would you say are your top three tips? Well, I think it's important just to kind of consider for, being able to thrive in the male-dominant industry.
00:22:58
Speaker
Number one thing is mindset and confidence. Talk about um what what you want to achieve and and take yourself there with hard work.
00:23:09
Speaker
Build credibility. Share how um you establish yourself. with the results you bring to the table, which is going to be based on hard work and transparency.
00:23:20
Speaker
And you can't do that without looking up to other people. mean, I dropped in a name, but there are many people at work and in my previous jobs that I look up to and I have long lasting relationships.
00:23:33
Speaker
Some people are placed in their jobs, some people... i I met once in an event. They're based in New York, I say. um Hello to once or twice a year. But we we check in on each other. We talk about employer branding topics. We talk about how you build a narrative for a brand, even though I'm a recruiter. And that empowers me to think, again, bigger picture, broader picture.
00:23:59
Speaker
And the person I'm thinking of, she's a ah lady. So, Think about who you want to be in your career. Visualize that person. Find them in an organization. Go after that conversation and if they're willing to help, definitely, definitely um take advantage of that relationship.
00:24:19
Speaker
And again, resilience and adaptability, a huge one. Why? Why is that easier today than any other day? um We've got AI. So let's say I'm a little bit insecure about the way I come across, maybe the way I work things.
00:24:35
Speaker
And we know it. Candidates are using these tools for interviewing. Candidates are using these tools even for tests. That's absolutely fine. We use it in a day-to-day job. um At the end of the day, all that technology is created to enhance and bring the best out of us.
00:24:52
Speaker
So um use it to your advantage. AI can be an incredible equalizer and kind of even out the play field a little bit for us all.
00:25:04
Speaker
where male go to the pub and they chat to each other, you have it at your fingertips. If you just pull out a a few searches, play with a few different platforms, I'm not going to endorse any particular brand, um you know, within your organization. Maybe there are certain tools you can't use, but in your personal time, try out.
00:25:25
Speaker
check Check, is it going to be um chat GPT? Is it going to be deep seek? Is it going to be ah some note-taking tool? Whatever works for you that helps you get to the next level of excellence, keep on chasing that.
00:25:39
Speaker
And that's going to empower you to make smart decision-making. But don't be don't be naive about it. I've seen AI make lots of mistakes. So whenever you have that opportunity, it's time to invest in learning or crafting a project you're gonna have to read through it you can't just take it for for the wholeness truth and put it out there because that could be reputation damaging but ultimately it can be um an amazing tool for um culture enhancement and just giving you incredible data and empowerment to go after a question go after a conversation hope that I hope that kind of summarizes everything
00:26:16
Speaker
Thanks so much. That was really insightful. I think it's a great perspective and definitely a topic that needs to be looked at from different angles way more often. um so yeah, thank you so much for sharing your time and your perspective on this.
00:26:32
Speaker
Thank you.