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Episode 684 - Raw Birthday Bash
1.3k Plays4 months ago
On the show this week, we're once again ranking the rawest moments in comics, including a Thor throwdown we've been waiting for!
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Clitus, I'm bored. What plaything can you offer me today?
00:00:10
Speaker
He's got War Rocket Ajax! To bring back his body! Turn it XC! Yo! Yo!
00:00:25
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to War Rocket Ajax. This is the internet's most explosive comic book and pop culture podcast. We are your hosts. My name is Chris Sims with me as always is Matt Wilson. Matt, how are you tonight? Chris, I am doing okay. I hope people enjoy this episode, which is going to be largely edit free because I won't be home this weekend. I'll be on vacation. Oh, happy birthday, Matt. Thank you. ah so Birthday boy. i Yes, it we are two days away from my birthday as we we're recording this. And when it goes up, it'll be two days after. So said set your clocks accordingly.
00:01:18
Speaker
Anyway, thank you ah for wishing me a happy birthday. We are getting raw on this episode of War Rocket Ajax. We are ranking some of the rawest moments in comics. And Chris, you know what happens when we do an episode of Thursday Night Raw? I believe that what happens is you go to your most visited Wikipedia page of the year That's right. this list special monday night ra episode List of WWE wwe Raw special episodes. There are multiple special episodes of Monday Night Raw about birthdays, celebrating birthdays. But I'm choosing to name this one after the episode from May 2nd, 2011, called The Rock's Birthday Bash.
00:02:15
Speaker
So this is going to be... That was from 2011? 2011. That was a shockingly bad episode of Monday Night Raw. I remember that one. It was awful. ah Pitbull appeared. And Maya. When Pitbull says, if you're going through hard times, been there, done that, what he's referring to is also having to watch that episode of Monday Night Raw. He had to be part of that episode of Monday Night Raw. Yeah. Well, of course he did, Matt. It happened in the world. Yes. At the American... He's Mr. World Line. At the American Airlines Arena in Miami, Florida. Hey, Matt. Real quick. Can you do me a real quick favor? Please. you You wear a medium or a large? Medium. Medium? Medium T-shirt.
00:03:04
Speaker
I mean, I don't want it to be too big, but I do kind of feel like I should size this up.
00:03:11
Speaker
ah Are these best considerations that we're making? They may be. They may be. Anyway, it is raw birthday bash this week on the show. We're going to be ranking some of the rawest moments in comics history once again. But Chris, before we get to that, we do have some business to take care of here at the top of the show. Our first bit of business, as we do every single week, is thanking our newest supporters over on Patreon. That's right, Matt. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you who where somebody could wear a vest. Where's that?
00:03:56
Speaker
That's down. but that's you could You can wear a vest anywhere on Gimmick Street. That's true. It's very appropriate. It's very vest friendly. But you could especially wear one down at 684 Gimmick Street. That's right. Because you know, what's a we said last week that at 683 Gimmick Street is the hospital where I was born. Right. Which means our process across the street is the hospital where you'll die. No, no. so Well, it ah poetic like that in a manner of speaking it is, because right across the street from the hospital I was born is Alston Bridge's barbecue. The the cause of? but The cause of my death, yes. If not the place, the cause of? Metaphorically, the the place where I will die, yes. yeah ah But yeah that's that's how Shelby rolls.
00:04:51
Speaker
directly across the street, well, not directly across the street, but pretty close to directly across the street from Shelby Memorial Hospital is Alston Bridges Barbecue. The better of the two Bridges Barbecues to me, but you don't have to hedge it. I don't have to hedge it. You don't have to hedge it. You can just say it's the best one. People love reds. People love red bridges. because it's more accessible. But I like, I like Alston's. And you're a gatekeeper.
00:05:30
Speaker
You, like me, want it to be actively difficult to get into this thing that you like. The only, the thing I have most gatekeeper-y about is barbecue. I have to admit. That's true. That is true. Both of us are. Anyway. It's very funny that there's a barbecue restaurant right across from the hospital, but you know what? Yep. I bet there are times in your life where where you need to be cheered up. Yes. Yes. And it's it's there for you. Yes. I can't tell you how many times in my life I've had to visit somebody at that hospital and been like, fuck, I need some barbecue and done that very thing. Yeah, man. I get it. I get it. yeah Like Pitbull. I've been there, done that, man.
00:06:20
Speaker
Anyway, you could go there at 684 Giving Street. You can indeed. And while you're there, why don't you get out your phone? Do they have Wi-Fi? At uh... At Alston Bridges? At Alston Bridges, yeah. Probably not. Probably not, yeah. ah But you can look. You can use your data plan. And you can pop that web browser open and you can go to patreon dot.com slash warrock at Ajax. That's W-A-R-R-O-C-K-E-T-A-J-A-X. And kick in as little as a dollar a month to help me buy Matt's birthday present. And, perhaps most importantly, help us pay those gimmicks they keep sending them out called bills. That's right, Chris.
00:07:10
Speaker
I have one new, or actually two, two new Patreon supporters to thank ah this week. manu Manuel Martinez. ah Thank you, Manuel. At one point, that was my name in Spanish class. Not Mateo? I got Mateo too. I think Mateo is more accurate. but but One year in Spanish class, I was Manuel for some reason. And then also Jamont. thank you germon
00:07:42
Speaker
If you would like to be like, that, ah that makes perfect sense. Yeah. That makes perfect sense. I mean, yes. Uh, if you would like to be like Manuel and Jamont, You can head over to, as Chris said, patreon dot.com slash war rocket Ajax and kick in as little as $1 per month to make sure that we do this show every single week, that we do comics catch up monthly, which I am in the middle of reading those Dick Tracy comics. And we're going to talk about those very soon. That we do every story, every specials every month that we do movie fighters and snack situation on my vacation.
00:08:21
Speaker
Marlene and I are going to go to the open air market in Charleston and just buy food and eat it and do an episode of Snack Situation. Nice. Sounds fun. Sounds like a great time, right? Does sound like a great time. Sounds like a time I would love to to hear a podcast about, for sure. For sure. All of those shows made possible by your support on Patreon. And as as so as a supporter on Patreon, you get every single one of those shows completely ad-free. You get a special feed. that is totally ad-free, and if there is a problem with your feed, or you have lost the link to it, or something like that, all you have to do, I think, is re-up or get in touch with Patreon. I had someone get in touch with me about that the past week this past week. I don't control any of that or do anything about that, but I do think Patreon will be good about making sure that you get your RSS feed link
00:09:16
Speaker
if you need it. So just check in with them or briefly cancel your subscription and then re-up it and then you'll get your feed. Because that's the big thing, right? You want your ad free feed of all the shows we make. Yeah, all the all the shows, all the BOCO. Now, you have to be at a special level to get the BOCO. But if you were at that level, we do lots of bonus content. ah some bonus content went up last week that I cut out of last week's show that is such hyper-secret information that I can't even talk about it. It's, I'll say this, it's not the kind of thing we usually talk about on YouTube. Yes, it's also, it's also, in some states you have to verify your age to hear this BOCO.
00:10:12
Speaker
Uh, but there's bonus content at that level. There's line stepping privileges at the slightly higher level. What's that? ponobook ah no book Oh, but there's also there's also bonus content we record special for this for ah Patreon there's writing over there that Chris has done a lot of video game reviews I've done some writing over there there all kinds of different boko over there on the patreon ah but there's to be some a little something new over there very exciting very exciting and
00:10:48
Speaker
ah We've also talked about doing BOCO for Animal Well, and I would like to do that. Because I have totally finished Animal Well now. I i Platinum Trophyed that shit. Did you really? Good job. I have not. I i got to a point where and I'm very upset about the Lynxes.
00:11:15
Speaker
There's line stepping privileges for Thursday Night Raw and Every Story Ever. If you're at that level, there are physical rewards. There are t-shirts. The top level is t-shirts. I put out the call last week asking people for their t-shirt sizes. I have gotten less than half of the required t-shirt sizes. So if you are at that level and you have not sent me your t-shirt size, please do so. very soon so I can get those t-shirts printed up and out to all of you um because I want to get those t-shirts made and get them sent. ah This year's design is designed by Jay Gonzo and it is fantastic. You want it. You do want it. If you are unable to help us monetarily, which we understand how that might be true,
00:12:09
Speaker
Uh, you can help us out in other ways. You can leave us a five star review on the podcasting app that we use, uh, or that you use, not that we use that you use, uh, be that Apple podcasts or YouTube music is the podcasting place for Google. Now, uh, Spotify, wherever you happen to get your podcasts, leave us five stars there. And that would help us out a bunch. Also just spread the word about the show. Uh, let folks know that there is a podcast. that you enjoy, it is about comics and pop culture, and they should listen to it as well. And when they listen to it, they can donate to the Patreon. You can tell them it's about comics and pop culture, um or if you think it'll it'll work, ah you can give them the more accurate summary of it's about barbecue and death. We are moving further and further in that direction, aren't we? Yes, every day.
00:13:05
Speaker
With that, Chris, now that we've thanked our Patreon supporters, it's time for some checks and recs. Let's do it.
00:13:15
Speaker
Chris, what would you like to check in with this week? Matt, I said a second ago for the listeners who may have skipped that section, for the listeners who heard the words gimmicks tree and started of hammering on that 30 seconds ahead button. Like I know there are. I said there might be a little something new coming to the Patreon. And there is an ongoing work, a work in progress. Is it, at long last, the next installment of Castlemania, my review of every Metroidvania that I have ever played or will ever play? No, it is not. No. But it is something else ah that springs from a conversation, ah the two different conversations, actually, that I had with ah one with you and Benito.
00:14:03
Speaker
and one with a friend of the show, Ted Anderson. I was playing a a game, because Matt, you know you know what I like? Games that do not require me to think very much. Sure. You love what the survivor's like. I love a survivor. Yes. I'm a survivor. I'm not gonna give up. Yeah. I'm a survivor. oh And I said ah that I've been playing one called Twilight Survivors, and I was like, hey, this one's actually got some really good, really interesting stuff. If you're interested, you should check it out. And ah I know that you said, I don't recall if Benito agreed with you, but you were like, I have not played any other than Vampire Survivors because I assumed it was the best one, and why would I want to play a worse one? that's That's kind of where I'm at with it, yeah.
00:15:01
Speaker
ah You're not wrong. It is the best one, and in many ways is the only one you need. However, I was also talking to a friend of the show, Ted Anderson, and I said, you know, I played a lot of really good survivors likes and a couple that are quite bad, actually. ah And he was like, well, i I'd love to ah ah see you write some reviews the way you have of Metroidvanias." And I was like, well, here's the problem with that, Ted. They would all be the same review, except some of them would be like, you can dash in this one.
00:15:44
Speaker
And he jokingly suggested, well, then you could just make a spreadsheet. know So Matt, I asked you earlier today if you wanted to see this or be surprised on the show. I am going to currently send you the link to Spreadsheet Survivors. and what What I told you was, so I would like to be surprised. Yes. So this is the first time I'm seeing this? Yes. Spreadsheet Survivors is going to be a an ongoing Google Sheet ah where I
00:16:19
Speaker
Basically, write some basic information ah about all of these survivors I have played. ill Give you a quick capsule review, not unlike what I used to do for comics back when I was ah blogging every Thursday night. ah And just a quick, do I recommend it? ah Right now, I have- This has graphics. Well, it's got the the box art for the games. or the I guess it's not box art when there's no boxes, but yeah. it's Yeah, mean that's what I mean. like it's got it's It's got images. like there's This is more than just a ah basic text spreadsheet is what I mean. ah Correct, correct.
00:17:05
Speaker
ah it will ah It currently has ah entries for 33 survivors' likes, which are all the ones I own currently. okay are the not all of them rep why yeah Not all of them are filled in. Not all of them are filled in, but if you want to find out like what I think of, crafty survivors, or a wedding witch made it in there, I don't want to hear it.
00:17:37
Speaker
I don't wanna hear it. ah but i I give you ah the title of the game, ah a category that's kind of in flux right now. I'm not sure what I should call it right now. It's called Touchstone, which is the sort of visual or vibe influence of it. So like for vampire survivors, it's Castlevania. For crafty survivors, it's Stardew Valley. ah For Pathfinder gallows, fire survivors, it's Pathfinder. ah I also give you a gimmick
00:18:10
Speaker
For the game I'll let you know if it has auto am or is more of a twin stick shooter if you can dash what the weapons synergies are like ah If there is a story and what it is how many characters are on the roster? ah What kind of variants the characters have like what is their? Like an actual difference in who you play as how the game progresses whether it's recommended I'm gonna rank them once I've got them all on here ah and most importantly Column H right now. That's the one you got to pay attention to that is does this game feature a playable dog? Yes, which weirdly enough is a honestly a defining attribute of the survivors genre and
00:18:56
Speaker
Yeah. A lot of good dogs. i I see that. I get that. It's important. Yeah. We will put that link on the the Patreon and you can go check it out. oh there are some There are some in there that I truly highly recommend that are a really good time, a lot of which I've talked about on the show. But oh I'm hoping to kind of fill this out and have a little of fun. ah once once the The phrase spreadsheet survivors popped into my head. I knew I had to make it real. ah Thank you to Ted for suggesting that i I do this and being curious enough to ask. And ah hopefully you will also find it oh interesting and useful. Matt, what have ah you been up to this week while I have been playing the same game 35 times?
00:19:52
Speaker
but Well, Chris, ah I haven't gone yet as of this recording, but soon I will be ah making my way to ah Charleston, South Carolina for my birthday vacation. And i am I am excited for that. ah But in the meantime, I have been at home and I have been re-upping my PlayStation Plus subscription, which I had let lapse for like a year. o
00:20:24
Speaker
I had not used it in a very long time, despite the fact that we ah were always talking about how we were gonna play Guilty Gear online, which we have not done. Yeah, and i i've I've been practicing that. I'm ready. Well, i I have played some now. I've gotten back on there and I've fired up Guilty Gear and I've um've done some playing. ah Also, I was able to play the aforementioned Animal Well for free or but included in the cost of PlayStation Plus because it's one of the free games of PlayStation Plus Extra. i also It just came out. It's like a brand new game. Yes. I also have been able to get back some of the games I downloaded from PlayStation Plus a while ago and can finally play them.
00:21:23
Speaker
So I actually paid for this game, but I'm going to play it now that my PlayStation Plus is re-upped and I'm going to be on on the service more ah live alive. which I've been meaning to play for a while. I started playing it. That game's wild. I really want to play that one. That was one that ah that I looked at a lot during the last round of RPG Pawn Far oh and really was curious about, but didn't actually get. And now i'm i' I really want you to recommend to to give me a full rec on that. It's got big Chrono Trigger vibes.
00:22:05
Speaker
big k Chrono Trigger vibes. A game I still have not played. I mean, it's... I think to really enjoy Live Alive... I'm not going to say playing Chrono Trigger is required, but from the get-go you're like, oh, okay, I see what this is doing ah in regards to Chrono Trigger. um Also, I could finally play ah Like a Dragon. Yakuza Like a Dragon. which I've had downloaded for months and just never started. ah So I won't be home this weekend, but hopefully soon i I'll be able to play some games I've had on my PlayStation for a long time and just never got around to playing or couldn't play because my PlayStation Plus subscription had lapsed. I also will try to get back to streaming a little bit. ah My never been scared series of
00:23:02
Speaker
game streaming ah videos, and the next game on the docket for that is Dead Space, the Dead Space remake. o So ah maybe getting back into video games, dipping my toe back into video games a little bit, it may all be upset by the new Elden Ring DLC though. Because I'm definitely going to play that. So we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. You know, I keep seeing that Elden Ring DLC and then I'm like, well, I have a whole Elden Ring that I didn't finish. Yeah. That I barely started because it wasn't fun.
00:23:45
Speaker
Am I the only person who thinks that? I'm sure there are many others who do, but, uh, But what's like once, you i so I swear, once you break that seal, once you get over that difficulty hump, there are no other games like them. It's just it's just not like... The feeling of accomplishment and like joy I get when I sneak up behind a bad guy and do
00:24:20
Speaker
an effective backstab cannot be described. I just wish it, I wish the game didn't take place underwater. Which is how everyone moves.
00:24:38
Speaker
All right, Chris, it's time for some recommendations. What do you have to recommend? Nah, fucking olden ring. Yeah, I know. JK, JK, JK. I actually have a brand new game to recommend that I am only a little ways into because I started playing it yesterday, ah but I did quite enjoy it so far. ah It is not a vampire survivors, nor is it an Elden Ring. It is called Aster, Blade of the Monolith. And it is a... It's it's kind of a Zelda? It really feels like...
00:25:15
Speaker
if If there had been a Zelda on Dreamcast, okay like it's it's not like quite low poly in that sense. like it looks It actually looks great. It's a very modern game. ah But that is the feeling of it to me, is what if there was a Zelda? What if there was a Zelda on Dreamcast? ah You will play a weird little dude who gets a sword and fights a bunch of other weird little dudes and ah is tasked with saving the world from these other weird little dudes. It's interesting. ah It is ah
00:26:03
Speaker
the The voice acting is very minimal, but ah a lot of it is ah told through the script. It feels great to play. oh the I wish I could remap the buttons because for some reason, oh the if you're using like an Xbox or Steam Deck controller, ah the light attack is Y and the ah heavy attack is B and those should be X and Y. Yes. Or Y and, I guess that's Y and X on a switch controller.
00:26:39
Speaker
ah But yeah, brand new game. They were nice enough to, I asked for a review copy because I saw it on Humble Bundle on the Humble Store and thought it looked really good. I asked them for one, they sent it over, ah started playing it and had a very, very fun time with the first little bit. oh And I expect it is only going to get more fun as I go through and unlock some cooler stuff that ah my weird little dude can do. ah Very cool sword. and a nice quick tutorial and a fun... Well, it's a gimmick. It's a fun little gimmick of ah going into the spirit world to interact with things that are kind of as they should be.
00:27:26
Speaker
So like there is a a passage that has been blocked off to get to this secret town. And when you go, you know, you activate the spirit world, which is centered on you. And so you can like see the edges of it and beyond is the real world. oh Like it's open and you can go on through. It's a very fun little gimmick, but it's very memorably beautiful, I will say. So, uh, so yeah, ah Check that out Matt what is your recommendation this week? Chris my recommendation is a movie that I finally saw because it went up on streaming on internet flickering pictures and So many people who I trust and appreciate We're posting about how This movie made them cry
00:28:26
Speaker
And I was like, it's not gonna be me, won't be me. And then I watched it, then I watched Godzilla minus one, and it got me. It it it did get me. It is the most emotional Godzilla media I've ever seen. It's really good. and really like it is amazing that they made this movie for as little money as has been reported as its uh its budget like 10 million bucks to make this Godzilla movie that looks great and is so emotionally affecting and it's just great like it's incredibly good also I want to address this I want to give my official opinion on this
00:29:26
Speaker
On Netflix in the United States, if you watch Godzilla minus one, just as is, if you just go to Netflix and hit play, what you're going to be watching is the dubbed version of the movie. And there's been a lot of complaints about the dub for various reasons. I think the dub is fine. I had no issue with the dub at all. I might watch the movie in original Japanese with subtitles just for like the sake of comparison but really I have zero problem with the dub at all and I think the complaints about it are overblown and snobbish because the movie had just as much emotional impact on me dubbed as I am certain it would have had
00:30:22
Speaker
in the original Japanese with subtitles I have nothing against watching stuff with subtitles either but like I watched the dub and it was fine so Godzilla minus one just watch it however you want to watch it watch it dubbed or subbed or whatever ah it's a good movie either way that's my that's my rec Chris Does he go Super Saiyan on that one? As in, like, he's his the spines on his back turn blue? I mean, yeah, does he power up by defeating other monsters in combat and then the he powers up so much that the spikes on his back change color? ah The spikes on his back do, well, they turn blue.
00:31:18
Speaker
So I guess he doesn't- But they don't turn a different color after they turn blue? No. ah But this is also Godzilla in like 1946. Oh, so this is like Godzilla fighting Demon King Piccolo. Got it. Got it. There are no other monsters in the movie. It's just Godzilla.
00:31:39
Speaker
So tone tone your expectations to that. Okay. Anyway, uh, that's my right. Chris, that means it's time for us to talk about some comics. Let's do it. There is no textures choice winner this week. We didn't text each other about comics. We mentioned what comics we read to each other as soon as we got on this call and no earlier. Yeah, but the, food we're busy yeah, the first one of those we did talk about though was amazing Spider-Man number 51.
00:32:18
Speaker
in which the Sinister Six is like making plans to go after Spider-Man, but then Spider-Man shows up in full goblin gear. like I was gonna ask you, Matt, do you think if you got the job, if if if Marvel called you tomorrow, yeah and they said, Matt, we we know you love Spider-Man, we want you to ride Spider-Man, You're going to be the new like one of the new creators on Spider-Man ongoing. yeah Would you see it as your responsibility to work with the artist specifically to create a costume that's going to show up in a video game? That would be worthwhile. This this is definitely one of those, is it?
00:33:11
Speaker
I feel like, yeah, I i mean, I feel like this is like the second one of those we've had in this run. Well, I mean, Chasm is also one of those. Chasm also probably one of those. Yeah. Yeah. But you're not wrong because he's got the he's got the Norman like goblin capable costume as well. but this is fully Spider Goblin here. Yeah, no, he's he's got, it's a Spider-Man costume in green and purple with like a green goblin head, but it's also a Spider-Man head. Yeah, it's it's honestly pretty great. the the The art on this issue is divided between Ed McGinnis and Todd Nock. And I mean, you could tell which pages are which, but it's all good.
00:34:09
Speaker
ah And also, speaking of Chasm, he shows up here. Also, there is a method of dealing with Electro and Sandman that I think I've never seen before, but that is very clever. I saw that and the thought I had was, this has to have happened before. I mean, maybe it has, but... Like, I don't recall seeing it before, but it's like, it's such a right there. It's very right there, yeah.
00:34:42
Speaker
Uh, yeah, it's, we get a little back up with the living brain. Uh, I'm having fun. I'm having a great time reading the Zebwell Spider-Man run. And I don't care what anybody says. In case we don't talk about it next time too. I love that this costume is going to show up on a, on a Todd homage.
00:35:07
Speaker
ah Yes. That's the cover of the next issue. Um, I would definitely probably want to do a story where one of those costumes shows up, but I have had my, if if I were called tomorrow and asked to write Spider-Man, my first story is the story I've had in my back pocket for, since I was 25. Yes.
00:35:34
Speaker
ah It's absolutely like little details of the story would have to change from what I originally, the original concept, but I've always had my pitch. I have to feel like that's the reason for it. Like, just look, Spider-Man ain't gonna be wearing this suit in two months, nor is he probably ever going to wear it again, but you're gonna see it again. You're going to see it again. In Sony's Marvel's Spider-Man 3. Yeah. Or Miles Morales 2 or something like that. yeah One other tidbit in this issue is there's a phone call between Norman Osborn and Kamala Khan that is an absolute delight
00:36:29
Speaker
Norman's got some good phone calls in this. The one that one where he he gets the the better of somebody and one where he doesn't, they're very fun. Yeah. ah The one with Kamala Khan is the one where he doesn't get the better of somebody. Yeah. ah It's Kamala figuring shit out, and I like that too. Anyway, ah good issue. Another good issue is Batman number 148, which I think finishes the failsafe story. Yeah, man, it's the Cody Rhodes. It finished the story. It finishes the story. oh And I love this because it is, first of all, there there's some the mantling shit that happens in this issue. Yeah, as I was reading this, and it was all about, you know, the Batman of Zurnar and how
00:37:26
Speaker
Bruce Wayne created the Batman of Zurnar to be a backup personality, but it became independent and now it's in failsafe. And like how so much of that dates back to Morrison and pretty much ever since that, that's what Batman is. Like that's what Batman comics are. They're all about like building out this mythology of Batman, which the mantling, I also i also consider the mantling part part of that. you know Like 21st century Batman is different from how Batman had ever been before that, incorporating a lot of silver-aginess into it. And man, I fucking love it.
00:38:24
Speaker
Yeah man, 2006-ish to present, I keep expecting the weird Batman era to end because this is the longest we have gotten a weird Batman era ever. It just keeps keeps getting weirder. It keeps getting weirder and I fucking love it. Yeah. I love how fucking weird it is. But like i I love that there's a part in this where Bruce is like, Yeah, I went and learned how to how to and create a backup personality, then I didn't do it, but then after my first year as Batman, shit got really weird. Yeah. And I love that. It's like, yeah, yeah, there's year one and that's normal. And then things start to get really weird for him. oh But yeah, like we get some full on weird stuff and I love that the
00:39:20
Speaker
that the, like, we have actually gotten, i we've talked about this before, I i emailed Chip when ah he started his run, Chip Zdarsky, and I was like, hey man, I'm so excited to see what you do on Batman. And he was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna do a story about why he doesn't just bike ride. And I was like, ha ha, that Chip, what a rascal. always joking. And then it turned out that like, that wasn't a joke. Like that's kind of what that first story was about. Yeah. And now his whole thing is like, the the entire fail safe Batman of Sur and R story has been, why does Batman have sidekicks?
00:40:14
Speaker
And it's like, yeah, because Batman can do more when he's working with a bunch of other people than what he can alone. And so if you're going to be the Batman of Zorran R and be the Batman without Bruce Wayne, then that means you also don't have your family, which means You gotta fight Batman and a bunch of dudes like trained by Batman, and you're gonna lose. And I love that. it is ah It's Chip doing an in-continuity justification for Batman having sidekicks, and I would never say that's a thing that I think you need, but I love how it has turned out. There's also a bit in this issue that is the most I've ever liked Jason Todd.
00:41:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's there it's it's the best use of Jason Todd since, well, since probably 2007. Yes, yes. The chip run, it's good. And this issue ends, I keep getting fooled into thinking that the chip run is over. ah I assume this is not the end of it either, but it feels like the end. I it's very much in that like very similar to Scott Snyder's run of like I Kind of feel like this is over because I don't know what you're gonna like how you can do anything else at this point. Yeah ah But you know I I'm sure there will be more it's it's 148 so I feel like he's probably got to go to 150 but got it got at least two more Yeah
00:42:01
Speaker
Let's see. but i'm going to look I'm looking at the solicitation for Batman 150. Yeah, he he wrote Batman 150, okay. ah Finally, I'm gonna talk a little bit about Ultimates number one, which Chris, you have not quite had the chance to read yet, but I i think this issue is very good. It is, of all the Ultimate stuff that's come out so far, it is the most directly linked to the like set up stuff for the Ultimate Universe that was done before this. So it is the return of Tony Stark to this version of the Ultimate Universe after he got blamed for that cataclysm that killed
00:42:57
Speaker
tons and tons of people, right? And what we learned is that it's six months later, the team we saw early on, I forget what that book was called that set all this up, ah but the team from that is back now. And so it's Iron Man, Dr. Doom, Thor Sif, ah Captain America, who is in a big block of ice, ah
00:43:28
Speaker
And eventually, ah the Wasp and Giant Man are here too. But they they have 18 months to save the world. they They have this timeline of like, we've got 18 months before the Maker comes back, it ruins everything for everybody. And so they got to figure out how to do all this stuff in this amount of time. They do realize that they have a time machine. So maybe they have two years because they can go back in the time machine six months and change things. So that's how they send back all the boxes with the message from Tony Stark, letting people know that they should be superheroes. Okay. But this issue reveals that only a handful of people accepted it. One of whom was Peter Parker.
00:44:18
Speaker
But most of the people were like, but fuck, I don't want this. And that was how they responded to it. So now they're gonna, they got to go out and start recruiting. um There's a very wild take on Captain Britain in this issue that I'll let you read for yourself, ah Chris. And then the issue ends with a very Intense moment that I don't quite know what to make of ah It feels very authority like actually I'm gonna need to know brackets positive or I get I did I Don't know. I really don't know whether I think it's positive or not. It's it's yeah
00:45:11
Speaker
It's a clear differentiation from standard Marvel universe. I'll say that. Okay. ah The writer on this is Denise Camp and the artist by Juan Frigeri. It's a great looking book. um Clearly, there's some in some Hickman influence here ah since he wrote you know the original kind of frame story, and then it ends with a bunch of you know graphics and charts and stuff. ah I continue to be very intrigued by this new Marvel Universe, or new Ultimate Universe.
00:45:49
Speaker
um but But in the early stages, it's hard to actually make a judgment yet on a lot of it. And that's kind of where I stand on this ultimate ah so far. So um that is that. And with that, Chris, you know what time it is. It's time to get raw. Happy birthday to The Rock. there was no signing no dreaming of me and my bra lived like a man but i'm animal Chris, our first submission on this Thursday Night Raw special.
00:46:21
Speaker
isn is from Rocket Witzel. And I think it's a pretty big one. Okay. Rocket says, Hey, boys, you've both mentioned that there are moments that are raw that still haven't been submitted. And there's one moment that I immediately thought of that I assume would have made the list in the first special, but it's still missing. That moment is from the end of Thor number 380. And it's that time that Thor hit the Midgard serpent so hard he broke every bone in his body. ah Yeah.
00:46:52
Speaker
That's one of them. That's literally like when I say that there's I want to say like five that I know for sure should be on here. And that's absolutely one. Like that's that's one of the ones I have been thinking of. It's it's a big one. It's a big one, for sure. Yeah, man. Because he hits the Midgard Serpent so hard. He breaks every bone in his own body. In his own body, yes. Yes. I mean, it also fucks up the Midgard Serpent. It's not like he, you know, doesn't accomplish anything, but like... Yeah, man. I talk about that literally once a week.
00:47:40
Speaker
I have talked about that literally once a week since I read that run 15 years ago. Yeah. Uh, it it fucks dude. And it's at the end of an issue of the an issue that is like Almost all splash pages. It is, I believe it is all splash pages. And I think there's a double page splash in there, yeah. Yeah. Except for the last page. The last page has... Well, the last page is when he goes and... oh Does he go and pick up the the little but wings and snap them off his home and put them on? Is that an issue or is that the one before? That must be the one before. The the last page of that issue is...
00:48:30
Speaker
Thor's empty armor laying on the ground like smoking. Yeah. Yeah. Because he just hit the Midgard serpent so hard. I mean, you know, you know, I don't have to say it again. yeah I will. He broke every bone in his own fucking body.
00:48:47
Speaker
It's good. And it's like, at that point in the run to like, Simonson hadn't been drawing for ah for a while. He'd only been writing. Yeah. oh And Uh, Sabi Semo had been drawing it, which is not bad. Like but certainly not bad. It's different. but It's different. Yeah. But this one fucking, uh, Walt comes back and does the, the, uh, like breakdowns and piece of it does the finishes. So you get, you get some, some hard, Walt Simonson in this looking good.
00:49:30
Speaker
It's a good-ass comic, man. Yeah. It's a good-ass comic book. Yeah. And it is... It's good. I mean, there's shit that happens in this one. He fucking knocks out the Midgard Serpent's teeth? Yes. Yes. Like, those dudes throw the fuck down.
00:49:58
Speaker
It's great. It's fucking great. ah like ah i mean like what What else can you possibly say about it beyond what it is?
00:50:19
Speaker
but yeah it is It is one of the few issues where
00:50:28
Speaker
um i would i'm might I don't know that I would say every page could be a cover,
00:50:35
Speaker
but it almost, it kind of feels like it, you know? Like every page is drawn with the care and detail that Simon said would have put into a cover, it feels like. Yeah. Yeah, no, ah the almost. almost every page in this could be a cover. And if you're willing to get like a little designy with it, every page could be a cover. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, there's- At least they could but they could all be a ah poster. Yeah. There's one that like is just a closeup of Thor's face that looks like it's one of those covers that's just a closeup of somebody's face.
00:51:22
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah, you know, you know what I'm talking about. What are those anniversary ones? I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. It's it's good as hell. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you who honestly, who the superstar is in this one, John Workman. Oh, because there's because there's so many amazing sound effects. yeah so many Huge, wild, polysyllabic sound effects that take up so much space that sound effects are very easy to ignore. In a lot of ways, like for some readers, I am am guilty of this myself. like Art can be easy to ignore, ah which sounds wild when you say it, but like I have caught myself just my eyes moving from one dialogue balloon to the next without really checking, you know looking at the art. I think there's a sense that like
00:52:19
Speaker
you look at the art just enough to know what the story is, but you don't take the time to sit back and really admire it. I know I'm guilty of that as a reader of like, you know, when I'm just trying to get through a book and and get the story and that's it. A lot of times if I'm doing a second read of a book, like I'm, I'm going through my second read of Berserk now my entire Siri's second read of Berserk and I'm taking a lot more time to kind of just sit and Admire the art, you know, and yeah, um I do feel like that is easier to do weirdly enough when you know the story already and so you can take a little more time to Like just kind of sit back and appreciate the art and
00:53:17
Speaker
Yeah. And ironically, it, it sometimes happens. I find that it, it happens the most for me. Uh, I have done, and I have done it on books with like great art and I've done it on books that I really liked too. So this isn't a dig on everything, but like if the story is boring, then I will find myself only paying attention to the dialogue. which ignores the person who's probably doing a better job of the two people who are making the comic, you know? Yeah, I mean, I think when the art is good, weirdly enough, unless it is like, absolutely like fucking blow you away stunning. But a lot of times when the art is good, it's easier to ignore because you're just in the story, right?
00:54:12
Speaker
yeah it's It's like when lettering is good, you don't really notice it. You're just in the story and you're looking at the lettering and you're following the story. ah So, you know, sometimes I feel like good art can sometimes be ah be its own worst enemy. me ah Yeah. yeah ah But all of it just to say, you can ignore sound effects sometimes. You cannot ignore them in this issue. because you are looking at a giant snake big enough to encircle the world, getting all its fucking teeth smashed out from the inside, because it's trying to eat Thor, and there is a giant hot pink sound effect on it. And so you know that shit goes skyrash.
00:55:02
Speaker
It's like like everything hits in this issue and yeah that shit where he hits him so hard that he breaks every bone in his own body tight tight as hell in in very literal in a very literal sense everything hits yeah ah it's the it's the next issue by the way when Thor comes back into the fucking destroyer armor and snaps his wings off his helmet and puts him on the destroyer that shit also rolls yes Thor is the best That issue is not drawn by Simonson either. That that issue is Salpissima again. yeah Yeah. This is, ah this I mean, past the point where he was oh oh drawing it regularly. So this is the only issue that he ah does any of the art for for a while in each direction. Yeah, it definitely feels like, one, he was like, I gotta do the art for that one.
00:56:03
Speaker
And two, because he's not drawing the book every month, maybe that can be in ah is a bit of an explanation as to why he clearly took a little more time on each page here. Yeah. And and like I said, Buscema does the finishes and it looks great. Like, Buscema's work on this book is good. I don't want to dis-sell Buscema. I don't want to just, I believe, former Marvel Comics art director Sal Buscema. I think Sal Buscema is probably rated exactly right. ah But yeah, but the the shit is good. The shit's real good. um It's not the rawest shit that ever happens in and Thor or that run of Thor, but it's pretty good. I would, I mean,
00:56:57
Speaker
I would say... I was about to say it should be in the top 10 for sure, but 10 is Gaze into the Fist of Dread, which is pretty great. It is, yeah.
00:57:10
Speaker
I do think it goes... I mean, I think it it probably goes right under Goku punching a hole through Demon King Piccolo. Okay, so that would put it at the number 12. 12? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Above Batman telling those people that they have dined well. Yeah, because um Batman doesn't put the the cloche down on their fucking baked Alaska or whatever it is so hard that it breaks every bone in his own body.
00:57:49
Speaker
Fair point. Very, very good. It would have been a wild turn for that scene, I will admit.
00:57:59
Speaker
All right. That's a good one. That is a moment that is good and raw. Our next submission is from Peter Swanson and it is one we have already ranked. It is from 2000 AD, Prague number 227. Judge, dread, punches Judge for you on the face and says, gaze into the fist of dread. Already even mentioned just now. Yes.
00:58:27
Speaker
We also just mentioned- Currently at number 10 on the list, ah right between Snake Eyes catching Storm so Shadow's sword with his bare hands and oh oh Goku punching a hole through Demon King Piccolo. Well, now that you just mentioned Dragon Ball, Here's our next submission from Owen, who says he had to submit the rawest Dragon Ball moment he could think of. Trunks wrecking Frieza's men, Mecha Frieza, and King Cold at the start of the Android saga. oh Matt, did you did you get the machine app? I've had the machine app for a while, yeah. Is it on your phone right now? Yeah.
00:59:16
Speaker
Can you load it up? Yeah. Yeah. I can get it going. Let me see. I put it, uh, let's see. I put it in, um,
00:59:28
Speaker
I put it in years in the company card for that one. Right. For the app. Yeah. Did you, do you have the machine premium, right? It was, I think it was just a one-time purchase. I don't think it's a subscription. I might be wrong. I don't really remember. Well, whatever reversion, which is pretty good. But like, if you want, if you want, like the history and everything, you got to like, first, you got to hit the whole thing. For some reason, I put it in my news category on my phone, but I found it. Okay. And I opened it up. Yeah. Okay. Did you need to sign in? No, i it keeps me signed in. It keeps me signed. Okay. Are you ah are you updated?
01:00:10
Speaker
I, yeah, that's absolutely i every time there are apps to update, I just go to the app store and I just update all of them. I do. that I do that same thing. Yeah. I don't want to get caught using like an outdated version of the machine. Never, never. Yeah. Um, cool. Um, well, if you're signed in and updated, can you just type, type this in yeah yeah we and see what it says? Let's see. Uh, Dragon Ball trunks, Frieza, King cold, Mecha Frieza. like Android saga. I'll just hit the button here. it's It's processing. Yeah, I mean, that's a lot to process. like there's you know There's a lot of distinct parts of that. Oh, it came back. Rules. Yeah, rules. Yeah. Yeah, that shit fucking owns.
01:01:05
Speaker
Dude? Buddy? Because like, its it is the ultimate, it's the ultimate putting someone over, right? Because like, poor Gladiator only exists to lose fights. I have never seen, I've maybe seen Gladiator win a fight once in Marvel Comics, but like, this is such a classic shonen manga,
01:01:38
Speaker
putting somebody over because we like just saw, we just saw the fight with Frieza and the Frieza Force and Goku had to become a fucking Super Saiyan to win that shit. Krillin had to die for for Goku to become Super Saiyan and fight Frieza and and been beat Frieza. Then Frieza shows up and he's like, what's up? I'm a fucking Terminator now. I've got robot parts. I'm even stronger than I was. And my dad's here, which is A, the funniest shit in the world.
01:02:27
Speaker
And B, like what is, especially in a manga for but four kids, like a comic for kids, what is more threatening than the bully's dad also is showing up and wants to fight you? I brought my dad, yeah. I brought my dad, and your dad is dead because I killed your dad, but I don't think we have explored that yet. um And then, motherfucker, not only does Trunks show up, and not only does he fuck up Frieza,
01:03:09
Speaker
Matt, he's got a sword. Like, no one has had a sword in Dragon Ball up to that point. Uh-huh. This mother, I have, I literally have a a small version of that sword on my desk in front of me right now. And it's the plainest but coolest fucking sword. Yeah. He fucking, he cuts Frieza in half.
01:03:44
Speaker
then chops him into a bunch of pieces, then vaporizes the pieces, then he fucking kills his dad. It's the hardest shit up to that point. And honestly, maybe the hardest shit in Dragon Ball as a whole. The only thing harder than that is when Goku, who always lets his opponents live because he wants to fight him again. ah Like, the only thing harder than that is when he kills Majin Buu. And he goes, I hope you come back as a good person next time and fucking obliterates him. Like, that's that shit's hard as hell. But like, this? His fucking dad, dude. King Cold got got
01:04:42
Speaker
Plus he looks cool as hell Like super saiyan future trunks cool as shit So this is when Trunks arrives from the future, right? Yeah, bud And he's basically cable he's cable Yeah, the thing I didn't know when I was reading Dragon Ball the first time trunks is cable. Yeah. Yeah Cable is trunks trunks is cable He's got that cool ass fucking Bolero jacket. ah That's one of the coolest superhero jackets of all time. That is a good jacket. That is a very good jacket. His fucking slutty crop top. I love him. I love future trunks.
01:05:30
Speaker
Also, if you do that move in like ah Dragon Ball FighterZ, or in Xenoverse, or in Kakarot, like the video games, and where they have all the the the moves are named. That move where he fucking cuts Frieza in half and then does the fucking holding the sword in one hand, the hand comes up under the arm and he shoots the blast out to vaporize him. The name of that move is Change the Future, which is also cool as hell. That is a great, a great name. That's like fucking, but that's when Trunks was in NXT in like 2014.
01:06:13
Speaker
is how cool that shit is.
01:06:18
Speaker
Uh, well, I've never read the manga version of this. I remember when it happened in the, in the anime, but i mean it's pretty much shot for shot. Yeah. Uh, so, so I will leave it to you to, uh, to rank this. I mean, it's, it's gotta go above Goku punching demon King Piccolo. Like I would put that, I would put that right below a magneto putting the fucking red skull in a hole. Okay. Okay. And I think that might be low, look like that might be too low. Like it's fucking rad as shit. It is pretty, pretty damn raw to be like, I'm not only going to whip your ass, I'm going to whip your dad's ass too.
01:07:11
Speaker
I'm gonna whip your ass in front of your dad, and then kill your dad.
01:07:21
Speaker
ah That's pretty good. That's pretty good shit. All right. So entering the list at number nine, I'm just putting Trunks with Frieza's ass in front of Frieza's own dad. Accurate. What chapter is that in Dragon Ball? Uh, not given here, so I'm not sure. Okay. We'll have to, uh, we'll have to verify what chapter. And Android saga pretty good. Honestly, Android saga pretty good. Maybe, maybe underrated the Android saga. Cause like, I feel like, you know, the sell saga and the Frieza saga and you know, the stuff around it is maybe better remembered. Yeah.
01:08:11
Speaker
That's a lot of really good stuff with Future Trunks. Yeah.
01:08:16
Speaker
ah next Next we have a submission. Future Trunks is in a good story in Super too. Like it like when ah when they fight Goku Black. Here's our next submission. It is from Greg Packnett and it is from Avengers volume 5 number 40.
01:08:38
Speaker
It is when ah Black Panther puts the knife where it belongs. Ooh, I don't know about this one. I am sure we read it. Cause Avengers volume five is the Jason Aaron volume, right? I think so. It's honestly kind of hard to track. That is Hickman Avengers. Okay, then I don't think I've read that one. And I bet it's good as hell. Because the way the the the the mysterious way that it is described is ah it' intriguing. Yeah, I feel like a big catch up on Hickman Avengers is definitely in order. Yes. Because I read some of it.
01:09:30
Speaker
I remember kind of reading the beginning and the ending and and missing a lot of sort of the middle of it. who And so just going and reading the entirety of the Hickman Avengers run all in one go seems like something that is very useful and important to do. Yeah, I bet it's good. Yeah. I mentioned the other day that I think Secret Wars 2015 is the DC 1 million of Marvel Comics? Yes, you mentioned that to to me and Benito, and I find that idea very, very intriguing, and I don't think it's wrong. Mainly, I think it is, if if you are a creator who busts out the idea that this is the eighth cosmos, then we're gonna get along.
01:10:28
Speaker
What is interesting is DC One Million is an extension of the Morrison JLA, much like I think Secret secret Wars is an extension of Hickman's Avengers. And Fantastic Four. And Fantastic Four. I mean, kind of pick all of Hickman's Marvel work to that point. up to like from FF up to literally like the ultimate stuff that he's doing now. That's the closest anyone else has come to Morrison doing their like decades spanning, uh, out of order Superman story. Yes. Where bits of, of DC 1 million and all sorts of Superman happened at the same time in between each other. Yes.
01:11:23
Speaker
Like, I think people sometimes believe that All Star Superman is out of continuity, and they are wrong. Because it the at a minimum it is in Morrison continuity. It's in Morrison continuity, and but it's the last Superman story in Morrison continuity. Because... it's Solaris the Tyrant Sun stuff from DC One Million and other Morrison stories. And it sets up the golden, beautiful Superman who lives in the sun from DC One Million. Yeah, who's been living in the sun for 830 centuries. Yes. So you have
01:12:16
Speaker
the current parts of DC 1 million, then every other Superman story, then all start Superman, then the future parts of DC 1 million, um and I guess the authorities in there somewhere too. The Superman and the Authority stuff, yeah. Which which is, ah that that stuff is weird. Because Superman and the Authority is doing one thing, and then it's like continued in action comics, but then it's doing a different thing once it gets to action comics. So I don't know. Yeah. But we did have to skip that one from Greg, so we're gonna take this other submission from Greg, Pac-Net, which is Tippi Tove's Plan B, AKA the time she bet her life in the fate of the Marvel universe on Squirrel Girl being worthy to wield Mjolnir.
01:13:11
Speaker
from the unbeatable squirrel girl beats up the Marvel universe. Uh, yeah, that shit rolled. That shit's good. That shit is set up so well from earlier in that story, the not evil, but the other Dorian not being able to lift it. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, like it's such a, like, like,
01:13:42
Speaker
Hickman and Ryan North, ah you know particularly like working with Erica, like there's a there is a mathematical precision to those stories sometimes that you would think that it would make them not as emotionally thrilling as they are. but it's just everything's in the right place. And it's like, yeah, we as we have established prior to this that the the antagonist Doreen can't lift it right because she is an antagonist, but the protagonist Doreen can do it. And that's like such a, like,
01:14:42
Speaker
you because you think it's you think it's just a bit because she she she takes all the uh all the Avengers stuff and then she just can't pick up the hammer and she's like yeah I don't need this anyway like you think it's it's played as just a one panel gag and then it comes back and is the crux of the story yeah I love that anytime it's part of a story where there's a Piece there's a thing that feels like it is just to throw a throwaway gag And then It becomes Key to the climax of the story. Yeah, man That that shit is always like a magic trick to me yeah, yeah, it's it's a That's exactly what it is. It's a magic trick. It's it's
01:15:41
Speaker
the the misdirection of you encountering that thing and being like, right, that's a joke. So it's over now. So it's not important. So it's not important. Yeah. We'll, we'll talk about it later. Like, like I'll remember it because it was funny and it sticks out, but like, it's not gonna affect the climax of this story, which is Squirrel Girl about to die on the fucking moon.
01:16:13
Speaker
And until she gets the hammer, that shit's great. Yeah. That shit's great. Yeah. It's not, I mean, it is pretty raw, but it's not, it's not raw in the same way, but it is brilliant. And I'm willing to put it on the list. I think it is raw in that it is such a like, badass moment for protagonist Doreen.
01:16:48
Speaker
will wait also to be to yeah Yes, yes. ah And also she says nuts to that. and that is That's pretty good. That's a great line. Solid gag. yeah Solid, solid gag. I would consider it raw. I don't think it is near the top of the list, but I would consider it raw.
01:17:12
Speaker
yeah I mean, yeah we've talked about how the kind of prototypical, raw feeling is somebody's about to get their ass kicked. And so when Doreen does show up and she's got that hammer and Aline thinks that ah but she's dead, then yeah. Yeah. I think it qualifies. Also, just just that ah graphic novel, original graphic novel in general, is so good. in being like a standalone story you can read and totally love and enjoy on its own. But it is even better if you've read the whole Squirrel Girl series. You know what I mean? like yeah it's It threads that needle just right. ah Yeah.
01:18:08
Speaker
um So yeah, I think this goes like somewhere near the bottom of the raw list, but I think it qualifies for it. ah Yeah, I don't think it's as good as as... Probably not in the spirit as much as Catwoman whipping Prometheus right in the beanbag. Yeah, i'm looking I'm looking lower than that. Yeah. I'm looking... Like I don't think, I think it's probably below Ikari and Daredevil. I think it's probably below Avengers wanting words with Ultron. Probably. We might have ranked Batman encouraging Joe Chill to commit suicide too low because I just saw that and then my first thought was, I'm pretty fucking raw actually.
01:18:56
Speaker
We had our reasons. We had good reasons. We had our reasons. We had our reasons. For sure. i I think it's below Earth Two Invaders drop dead, but I think it's above that big bar to moment at 62. All right. Then let's put it the new 62. All right. Uh, so it is Greg, Greg described it as tippy toes, plan B, which is accurate. Now, if only. Doreen Green had then used, uh, Milner to hit something so hard that she broke every bone in her own body.
01:19:35
Speaker
ah Yeah. Yeah. Uh, let's see. Our next submission is from Sean Bell and Sean. Okay. Uh, this is, this is a reply to another, raw moment So I'm making sure... I'm making sure I'm picking the right one here that we haven't talked about before. Okay. um I don't think we've talked about before this before, but Chris, you can correct me if I'm wrong.
01:20:18
Speaker
ah This is from issue 10 of the second run of Batman Incorporated by Grant Morrison and Chris Burnham. It's the moment where black Batman flies out of the sky wearing the suit of sorrows, a protype prototype exoskeleton, and dosed up on man-bat formula in a final confrontation with Leviathan because he has no fucks left to give. Is it weird that I don't remember that happening? I remember it i remember it happening. ah
01:20:51
Speaker
I mean, I have no doubts that it happened. Yeah. I do think it is... What issue is this? It's number 10, but it's of the second Batman Incorporated volume. So I think part of the reason you don't remember it is because there was such a huge gap between those two volumes of Batman Incorporated.
01:21:19
Speaker
Batman Incorporated got like pretty short shrift.
01:21:25
Speaker
in that it is a story that was broken up and with a big gap in between. But I know you remember the art from the page where he's wearing this like fucking chrome motorcycle suit diving down with the lightning bolt behind him and there's the the caption box this box that says, I shall become a bat. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now and that kind of owns. Yeah. And he's diving towards Talia who's wearing like a black mask mask. Yeah, I will say this. Maybe one of the reasons I don't remember this that well is that as much as I love Grant and as much as I love Grant doing Batman and as much as I honestly love this run with Burnham doing the art, Batman Inc. ends really weird.
01:22:21
Speaker
It ends abruptly. it Well, the Leviathan stuff kind of, I'm not going to say it doesn't pay off, but it doesn't pay off in the way, like,
01:22:38
Speaker
the way it should, it doesn't pay off the way Batman RIP pays off, you know, by which I mean, it's not perfect. Well, it it feels like
01:22:48
Speaker
because Because the second volume of Batman Inc. only goes 13 issues.
01:22:55
Speaker
in the At the end, there's a fill-in. like Number 11 is a fill-in, which is that issue with the Batman of Japan, which is actually great. Yeah. That Burnham wrote Andrew, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, ah this is the run where it's just wild. He didn't draw it. Jorge Lucas st drew it. Oh, Jorge Lucas drew it. That's right. He wrote it.
01:23:20
Speaker
Uh, but like this is where you find out that the big bad guy, um, uh, it has a baby hub. Yeah. That was pretty weird.
01:23:37
Speaker
When the bad, when the bad guy was a baby, he had been acting like a baby.
01:23:47
Speaker
up to that point like I mean he's been acting like a weirdo but he talked kind of like a baby you know like I remember like it was heavily hinted at that that's i well what was that dude's name he was like one of Dick Grayson's like arch enemies when he was Batman weird weird run it's it Like I said, it feels like a very rushed finale.
01:24:19
Speaker
It's, it's a, it's, it's always stuck out to me because like so much of, of Morrison's Batman is perfect comic books. hu Right? Like it's all mad. It's, it's all so good. It's all just so darned good. Uh, but then incorporating, like even the start of incorporated is like really good. And then the Leviathan stuff, the Leviathan stuff is kind of like where I'm like, yeah, if you're one of those people who thinks ah Batman stuff is just weird or Morrison stuff is just weird, i this is not what I would show you to dissuade you of them yeah ah that. That dude's name is Fatherless.
01:25:13
Speaker
And he is a clone of Damien. Yeah. So he's another, he's, he's another one of their, uh, they're grown into vac clones, but, but Damien doesn't have a baby head. So I guess they let him marinate a little longer. Yeah. Yeah. It's a weird book. and It's a weird book, but all this shit where, um, where bre Because don't forget the first thing that happens in the Morrison run is fucking ninja man bats Yes, that's the first thing that happens and that is leading to this Yeah Because Talia made the ninja man bats. Well, you you will learn you will discover. Yeah oh and it it's it's
01:26:05
Speaker
it's ah it' It's paying off that and it's paying off. ah all If I ring the bell, he can stop the bleeding in time. Cause we get like a recreation of of the year one sitting in the in the chair saying I must become a creature of the night scene. And it's it's the suit of sorrows is from the worst part of that run.
01:26:32
Speaker
uh, which is the, uh, the, the, the part where Roswell Ghoul comes back. And that's where you get the new Azrael from. Yeah. soossarrus is is not That's the stuff that when I reread the run, I skip because it's resurrection of Roswell Ghoul was, it was a bad time for everyone. I think certainly a bad time for me.
01:27:01
Speaker
It's paying off on a lot of stuff. The resurrection of Ra's al Ghul was not Morrison on their own, too. No, it was iro a like linewise or ah and a Batman crossover. So, yeah Morrison wrote the issues of Batman, but I i want to say Paul Dini wrote the issues of Detective, and those are also not good. And I am also someone who's a who enjoys that Paul Dini run undetected quite a bit. so But i I think it crossed over into other books too. ah I don't really remember it entirely, but yeah I remember that being like, yeah, kind of a low point of the run. yeah it An interruption is what it felt like. Yes, very much so. But it is like it is very Morrison to be like, nope, everything counts.
01:27:54
Speaker
For sure. ye like it's not It's not just all the stuff from the Silver Age accounts, it's all this shit too. So oh so yeah, it's a pretty good moment. look It's a pretty good moment. I do remember it now. It doesn't pay off the way you want it to. like One, the next issue is a fill in. Then when you get to 12, Like he dives, he fights fatherless for a while. It is over quickly. And he, Batman doesn't even get to defeat fatherless. It's Talia. Well Batman defeats him and then Talia cuts his head off. Yeah. And then the last issue is just an absolute blur where it's like, okay, Batman and Talia are sword fighting. That's over really quickly. Leviathan is done for. Batman Inc is over. Yeah. And then Kathy Kane kills.
01:28:50
Speaker
kills Talia?
01:28:54
Speaker
Uh, I think, yes, yes, she shoots her. Yeah. And then she's like, Hey, hey, Bruce, you should have shot her. You should have murdered her. Because that will solve this problem. And Batman's like, damn, I guess you're right, Kathy. And I'm like, Grant. What's happening? Well, well, like Kathy is like, okay, um, now that I did that, I don't exist anymore. I'm gone. And she disappears. Yeah. And she leaves DC continuity. And Batman tells Bat-Cow and Bat-Cat to shut up. And, and then like Batman Inc is over and then it just ends with Rosso Ghoul having a bunch of Damien clones still. Yeah, man. Weird stuff. And it's all just like,
01:29:41
Speaker
Like, Grant's comics feel like they go very fast on purpose. This feels like it's going faster than that. Yes. You know what I mean? like which is Which is weird, because you would think if there was if there was anything that shouldn't have to like wrap things up quick, he said, as someone who's cancelled comic had to be wrapped up pretty fucking quick. Uh-huh. Like you'd think it would be a Grant Morrison Batman book, you know? And yet. And yet. And yet. I'm also really surprised. I mean, this is is neither here nor there, but like knowing Burnham the way we do, oh someone again, whose work I absolutely love and who whose comics I've read a bunch of, I'm surprised he didn't go further with Batman looking weird from taking the man back serum.
01:30:40
Speaker
Cause he basically just looks like, he's basically got like a five o'clock shadow and some fangs. Yeah, he's got like- You would expect Burnin to be like, I'm gonna fuck this dude up. He's got like glowy eyes and stuff. but I'm sure, I'm sure DC editorial had some things to say about how weird. I mean, on the cover, he's a man bad. Yeah. Yes. Yes.
01:31:06
Speaker
You would think. You would think. ah Anyway, what do you do you where do you think this goes if it gets on the list at all? I mean, I think it goes on the list. i i think i mean its The moment itself is pretty good. ah because it is like
01:31:30
Speaker
It's not something you ever see Batman really do. like He doesn't often combine Wayne tech shit and weird mystical shit and fucking oh but man bad juice, you know, like villain shit. Yeah. and I think more, most importantly, it's it's not often that you see Batman lose control. Yeah. And this feels like a Batman losing control kind of moment. Yeah. And I really like, you know, obviously
01:32:11
Speaker
I love it when he does those things individually. I love that Scott Snyder had Batman be like, yeah, these are, uh, these are my end metal batarangs for when ghosts show up. Right. Cause that's a thing I have to worry about. Uh, and you know, I love it when he's like, yeah, I, I mean, I got to use a freeze gun. I'm gonna use a fucking freeze gun, you know? Like, But you don't see it combined, so I do think it's pretty cool. i don't I don't love it the way I love, say, Batman digging his way out of his own grave, a perfect moment. God, I wish Chris Burnham had dropped time on RIP. That shit would have been so good.
01:32:56
Speaker
ah No, I don't think it's even close to that. I mean, I think it's i think it's down here, probably lower down in the list. i mean How does it rank against Batman giving Joe Chill his gun back? i I think it says a lot that I initially did not remember this moment. I think i think that is true, yeah. ah Me, a professional Batman rememberer. The thing for me is I remember the page, I remember the image, but it's hard to place into context. Yeah. I think it's
01:33:36
Speaker
It's honestly, it's probably not as raw as Punisher shooting a hundred year old man on the face at his own birthday party, which is pretty fucking funny. He was a hundred years old. He was. He was a hundred years old. Oh, natural causes don't get, don't get to get you. Matwin Frank's around. That's what he told him. That's what he told him. Oh, fucking funny. Beautiful. Matt is beautiful. Beautiful. Does it go on the list? I mean, if you say it goes on the list, it goes on the list. I think it probably goes on the list. Is it the lowest thing on the list? Yeah, I think it's the new number 66.
01:34:36
Speaker
All right, in that case,
01:34:42
Speaker
in a 66 below Hulk asking Blade if he can turn into a bat and then throw it again as hard as he can. the The key component of that one is that he asks him first. that would that's That's what makes that so good. There's gotta be something a little bit funny about the raw shit there is. That's true. It's gotta make you laugh a little bit. ah So, Batman in the suit of sorrows from Batman Incorporated number 10, volume two number 10, because it's the new number 66 on the list, but it does make the list. So thank you, Sean, for sending in that submission. We are out of time. We're out of time, folks.
01:35:28
Speaker
Folks, the tape machines are rolling. so That's right. So when Matt and I are talking about Raw Moments in Comics off air, we'll try and put that on dot .com.
01:35:39
Speaker
If you would like to send us a Thursday night Raw submission, ah you can do that at our email address, which is warrocketpodcast.gmail dot.com. That is also where you can send every story ever lists and listener questions. And if you want to sponsor the show, you can let us know there. We would love it if you wanted to sponsor the show. ah So send us an email with any of that. You can also get in touch with us on Tumblr, we're at warrocketpodcast.dumbler.com. We are also on blue sky at warrocketajax.bsky.social. So ah send us a message there and follow us there if you want.
01:36:15
Speaker
We have a Discord that you can join and you should. It is a great community of War Rocket Ajax listeners. ah You have to ask for an invitation to ah be a member there, but if you ask nicely for an invitation on any of those places that I just mentioned or on our Patreon, we will get you ah that invite and you can join and just be a nice person and don't be mean ah there and all will go well. Our website is warrockitajax.com and has every episode of the show we've ever done. warrockitwiki.com is the fan run repository of all the information you can ever want or need about War Rocket Ajax, so go check that out if you want to see a good hat and learn about us.
01:37:06
Speaker
If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson dot.net to find links to my comics, my books, my other podcasts, and my social medias. Chris, where can people find you? Everybody can find me by going to thu-isb dot.com. That is my website. It's got links. ah Hey, this month, just in time for Matt Wilson's birthday. ah Downset Fight is coming out in a new 10th anniversary edition. Originally came out way back in 2014, and a new version from OniPress, and a bigger size version.
01:37:40
Speaker
ah Just as good as you remember. um Makes a makes a great gift for dad's grads and Matt Wilson. o Dad's grads in math and And Matt's Mickelson. I'm sure he'd love it. I'm sure he would love it. I bet he would. and I bet that guy who plays Will would like it too. Did I say I was watching Hannibal for a little bit Matt? It's a good show.
01:38:10
Speaker
Is it, Matt?
01:38:16
Speaker
ah Bye, everybody. We'll see you next week. We'll see you next week, everybody. Be here for our next episode. ah And don't forget, Black Lives Matter. Trans rights are human rights. As are abortion rights. Drag is not a crime. And cops aren't your friends. But we love you. We love you. Yeah!