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"Unmistakably Human" - David Dittrich on Meaningful Friction in Marketing
3 Plays2 minutes ago
David Dittrich has over two decades of experience at the intersection of music, technology, and marketing. Currently Head of Marketing at Hitradio Ö3 – Austria's leading radio station – he has previously led artist marketing at Universal Music, headed the festival brand LIDO SOUNDS, and built campaigns that earned a CCA Venus Award, Austria's premier advertising prize.
He has managed teams, multimillion-euro budgets, and large-scale events with up to 20,000 attendees. His work sits where cultural instinct meets commercial strategy – and today he's here to talk about exactly that.
About the FRICTION RELOADED podcast and your host:
I’m Florian Schleicher, a marketing strategist. This podcast focusses on my FRICTION RELOADED marketing trend report and its four subchapters.
If you want more, check out my FutureStrategies newsletter – monthly inspiration on marketing, strategy and sustainability.
And if you are looking for some inspiration on your brands marketing strategy, let me know. That’s what I do with my marketing studio FUTURESTRATEGIES.
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Transcript
Introduction to Marketing and Audience Reach
00:00:00
Speaker
And for us, it's important to earn attention. It's not like a given thing. Although we have a big reach and we have a big market share, it's not like that we are staying number one. So we always want to improve ourselves and grow our audience.
00:00:14
Speaker
Welcome to Friction Reloaded, the podcast. I'm Florian Schleicher, a marketing strategist, and this is where we cut through the noise. Because everyone is talking about trends, but most of it is noise. In this podcast, I sit down with industry leaders, marketers, and strategists.
00:00:32
Speaker
And together, we don't just talk about what's coming. We uncover what it means and what you can do with it. It's all about real perspectives and actionable insights. No fluff.
00:00:43
Speaker
So let's dive in.
Introducing Industry Expertise: David Dittrich
00:00:44
Speaker
My guest today is David Dittrich. He has over two decades of experience at the intersection of music, technology and marketing. Currently head of marketing at Hit Radio Ö3, Austria's leading radio station.
00:00:58
Speaker
He has previously led artist marketing at Universal Music, head of the festival brand Lido Sounds and built campaigns that earned a CCA Venus Award, Austria's premier advertising prize.
00:01:10
Speaker
He has managed Teams, multi-million Euro budgets and large scale events with up to 20,000 attendees. His work sits where a cultural instinct meets commercial strategy.
00:01:21
Speaker
And today he's here to talk about exactly that. Thank you so much for coming
The Trend of Friction in Consumer Engagement
00:01:26
Speaker
on the show, David. Thank you so much, Glorien, for inviting me. I've been looking forward to this conversation. Me as well. So you are at one of my presentations of Friction Reloaded in a vintage cinema, if I remember correctly.
00:01:39
Speaker
And I would be curious what is still stuck in your mind about the trend report and its shifts. I think the main thing that really caught me was that you titled it friction because we felt there was something out there that changed all this optimization economy brought us to a perfectionism that nobody really wanted anymore and it didn't really have an effect anymore.
00:02:06
Speaker
And then you came up with the word friction and I was like, yes, that's actually it because people want to invest something. to make an effort and create a meaning by them.
00:02:16
Speaker
That was very important ah to to say it that clear.
Cultural Shifts from the 90s
00:02:20
Speaker
And you found out several topics that are accompanying us right now. And um yeah, I thought a lot about it. And before we got started with the podcast, you also told me you thought in general about trends and why we are at this point in time. So I would be curious, what are your thoughts on that?
00:02:38
Speaker
Yeah, I was thinking why are there certain kind of bands not anymore on the radio, like the Bloodhound Gang? and Where do we come from actually? Why were the 90s so
The Impact of AI on Social Media and Content Creation
00:02:50
Speaker
loud? Where was there externalized rebellion?
00:02:53
Speaker
And um I thought about it a lot and I came to the conclusion that kind of in the 90s we had good times. um people were kind of restless because that there was an intensity in the air and we could see it um in the culture. There was wrestling, there was new metal.
00:03:12
Speaker
There were TV shows like South Park, but on the other side you also watched Titanic. So it didn't really make sense, but it was there. It was like an energy. And I think later on,
00:03:24
Speaker
It changed a lot because 9-11 happened in 2001. Everything got more serious and uncertain. And on top of that, the internet developed quite fast.
00:03:36
Speaker
So we we had broadband infrastructure. We had social media. So the first time ever... We presented ourselves in public, you know. We had our own identity out there that kind of was performative as well at a certain moment.
00:03:51
Speaker
And over the years, everything got smoother and easier. and we could order with one click and got the food in front of our door right away when we ordered the food. and And the UX was changing a lot. Everything had to be fast and easy and perfect.
00:04:09
Speaker
And that kind of created a numbness. That's why I think we came to friction in the end because it has to make kind of, yeah, create an effort.
00:04:20
Speaker
It's very important that you invest something, that not everything is predictable. Yeah, that word actually stuck with me, that effort, because that's ah just another word for friction. And it it also reminded me last week, I thought about,
00:04:34
Speaker
So many postings on LinkedIn are now written with AI. And I felt really like a kind of contract was broken here because I subscribed to people because I wanted to hear their thoughts. I wanted to hear their voices. And now what I see is what Claude or ChatGPT has written for them.
00:04:53
Speaker
And so I said, I'm going to unfollow all of these people who are using AI to write their posts because I want to feel
Maintaining Human Connection Amidst AI Advancements
00:05:01
Speaker
that effort. And even if it's less, if you don't post every day or every week, but post something that really comes from you where yeah where I can see you put some effort, some humanness into it.
00:05:11
Speaker
Well, would you say that we are very strict with that? Because imagine I'm working on a big piece for Substack and they... invest lots of time on ideas, how I frame the story, what I really want to say.
00:05:23
Speaker
And then in the end, I use AI as a tool to just check if everything is correct. Would you allow that as well? Absolutely, I would allow that. The thing that I'm allergic to right now, and from the response to to posting, I think a lot of people are as well, is that you see the same phrases all over again, which is different than if you use AI tools to check something, to check grammar, to check sources, to maybe just check if the structure really works.
Creating Unforgettable Events and Brand Loyalty
00:05:53
Speaker
That's different. But I feel like all of us, we have our distinct... tone of voice when we say something, when we write something. And if we use AI to smoothen that away, then I think we're losing something. And then really the question is, so why do we really need us anymore?
00:06:10
Speaker
If we can just ask those tools to give us a perfect sentence or paragraph about something. Yeah, you're right. So I would be curious because ah One of the trends that I wrote about is this search for meaning.
00:06:23
Speaker
um So in uncertain times, more and more people are looking for something that actually holds them, that gives them some structure. And I was thinking also that there is this saying of a rabbit hole, the TikTok loop, um the Spotify rabbit hole.
00:06:41
Speaker
And I feel like radio u rai which you are working for is different because you don't really have to choose something. You just receive, you let go of things and then you just get something that someone else has thought about how to structure it for you. So I'd be curious, are you also using that in your marketing already? this letting go of things and just trusting what someone other has thought about for you?
00:07:11
Speaker
It's a mix. I think very important for us right now is that we found out that we're not on the ascender. There are also recipients out there that we have to listen to, that we want to listen to.
00:07:23
Speaker
They also show us topics that matter to them. And for us, it's important to earn attention. It's not like a given thing. Although we have a big reach and we have a big market share, it's not like yeah, God given that we are staying number one. So we always want to improve ourselves and grow our audience.
00:07:43
Speaker
um And as you said, I think the topics Let's say like this, um we have to kind of also given o ourselves a DNA that says we are leading not only in kind of market share and daily reach, but we also want to lead in terms of we set the topics that matter out there. We see them early enough.
00:08:07
Speaker
It's not just a quick hype. We want to be the first ones to make it bigger and to bring it out there that people also feel like we resonate with them. And we are also very authentic. That that is a big strength that we have real humans 24-7 sitting there and there is no AI talking to them.
00:08:24
Speaker
So we are unmistakably human. And this is one of the biggest advantages we see in the next years. ah with all this AI showing up.
00:08:35
Speaker
Do you feel like AI is also a threat for radio as a medium and for the whole structure of how you do the programming at the moment? Because of course there can be people saying, hey, why don't we just ah substitute our moderators that have to be on air with AI voices and somebody just writes a text?
00:08:55
Speaker
Yeah, you're right. I mean, the biggest competition is not just other radio stations. It's um also Spotify, um YouTube, TikTok, and also our AI um compiled playlists.
00:09:08
Speaker
And you even have radio moderators and hosts out there that we are using like AI, and we can yeah you don't have the human element anymore. So we really want to establish a coherent human audio ecosystem out there. It's not just linear when we're on the radio. You also find us online in podcasts or on our social media platforms with our own content there, not just the mirroring of the news out there.
00:09:35
Speaker
But this is very important to us, and this is kind of the vision that we have, that we want to be the most human um audio entertainment brand out there in the next weeks.
00:09:45
Speaker
I find it very interesting because then you position yourself basically as kind of an antidote to all the artificialness out there. Kind of, but it doesn't mean that we don't use AR.
00:09:57
Speaker
So we see it as a tool that humans use. maybe not even maybe, it's it's it's kind of a fact that it helps us a lot by analyzing Bata and analyzing music surveys.
00:10:09
Speaker
And also kind in terms of music programming, it's very helpful. You're getting to a situation where we can also change the musical tone out there. Let's say it's a rainy day. AI helps us to make the music a bit lighter and better, that people feel better in the end. Personality dies, you know that everybody knows. We can instantly change the tone.
00:10:31
Speaker
So that's very helpful as well. Yeah, fascinating. I would like us to talk about another topic that was also mentioned in the Trend Report, which is in real life experiences. And I read an interview ah with you that came out when you actually started your job at ura ah And you had this ambition to create experiences that you don't just hear, but you can also feel.
00:10:55
Speaker
So I would be curious what you meant by that and how that actually also translates into the work we'll maybe see in the next couple of months and years. Let's say like this. I kind of come from the event industry as well. And by i did many concerts and festivals.
00:11:12
Speaker
And this is a very important thing that people feel that kind of energy when they are at an event or at real life um happening, not that they take with them. It's unrepeatable.
00:11:26
Speaker
It's really something you experience only there with other people around you. There elements of surprise. um And we also meet people that you are but don't expect to meet there. So we have so many elements that make it special.
00:11:43
Speaker
And we try to also recreate or even yeah bring new ideas for events that make people feel like that, that people also make stick to us, you know, like a a loyal fan base.
00:11:58
Speaker
That's important. And um wherever it's possible, the the budgets are not that big anymore regarding events and it because also the security costs and production costs are rising comfortably.
00:12:10
Speaker
But we really try to surprise the right fan base out there constantly and um with with also ideas like the mental health festival that we can also hear on the air and the radio and read online, listen to online and also be there.
00:12:30
Speaker
in a not too big a
Balancing Reach with Genuine Connections in Branding
00:12:32
Speaker
ah to big audience. and all That's important that we cannot fill stadiums or fill festival sites. We are going a bit smaller. But that doesn't matter because you can also listen to it on here and online.
00:12:43
Speaker
I would be curious what are things that you can actually do to bridge that gap between just being present at an event and really building an experience that creates then a brand memory that then helps you with reputation and all long term effects.
00:13:01
Speaker
I think it depends on the program and on the message that we want to transfer. And um if it's a concert, it highly depends, of course, on the band, on their program, but also on the setting that you have.
00:13:13
Speaker
ah Is there also a live stream or is it really exclusive? It has to be there and only 50 or 100 people can win a ticket. Or can you buy tickets from how we go and figure it? So all of this creates a different outcome. And so we think it through and think about topics that matter besides music as well. Although, of course, music is the biggest universal language and it's the pure emotion.
00:13:34
Speaker
So we mostly, of course, try to go with music first. You now touched upon another topic that I would like to talk about, which is um reach and broadness.
00:13:45
Speaker
You also worked for FM4, station with a genuine subculture credibility built over decades. whereas O3 leads by reach.
00:13:55
Speaker
It has historically seeded a little bit of coolness to FM4 also. Is that a tension that you're trying to resolve now in your role? I think it's necessary for brands in the next years to change that view a bit because if you only bet on reach, if you only want to have the best performance,
00:14:15
Speaker
It's not an enough anymore. And I would say the years at FM4 shaped me in a big way because they have one of the most loyal fan bases. The people really listen to FM4 and go there because they lock the the station.
00:14:29
Speaker
So I think every brand has to learn from that a bit and has to switch over to not being only loud, but to be relevant. You have to create relationships and you have to connect to people.
00:14:43
Speaker
And also you have to create a certain bet in your messages and in what you do in your content. ofd So I think this is the future and that's where we want to go as well.
00:14:54
Speaker
Although we are number one, this is the way. When not just focusing on a trend report, is there another thing in the marketing world that... you think most people from the industry are underreacting to? Maybe another trend that you observe or some signals that you see that are curious to you? yeah I would say it's not always that clear where a new kind of trend starts and another one ends.
00:15:18
Speaker
The trends are also overlapping. Some brands are earlier, some are a bit later. starting a trend or jumping on the train. um And I think we are already, moved on already a bit, would say. Friction is a great trend that is still there, but I think the next step is kind of coherence. You know, it has to make sense.
00:15:41
Speaker
I'm from like, I want to feel something again because everything was so perfect and performative. And now we we we enter an era of it has to make sense.
00:15:51
Speaker
And what caught me off guard last week but was the Adidas long-form video for the World Cup. was like a five-minute movie that blew my mind and it had stars in it but the realhero but they real heroes ah were everyday people that played in the backyard.
00:16:11
Speaker
So that was really creating a world that made sense. It was not about friction. all It was really about a whole coherent worldview. And I think that's where we are going. And it was about emotions.
00:16:24
Speaker
And I think that's one thing I just... wrote a newsletter, which comes up next week when this podcast airs, it will already be online. But it was about that so much of marketing that I see nowadays is very rational again. It's marketing departments who have a job to bring some kind of information out there, maybe evo evoke some thoughts. But there are so many billboards out there where I don't really feel anything.
00:16:52
Speaker
or so many TV spots or Instagram ads where it's just like more of the same. And also the thing that you said in this interview is where or ah create experience that you can feel.
00:17:04
Speaker
I think that so... much of marketing organizations and people have lost this ability to, or or maybe they're just overloaded or I don't know what it really is, but this thought of really thinking through what do I want my audience to feel when they receive something.
00:17:24
Speaker
Exactly. It's
Building Community through Genuine Interaction
00:17:25
Speaker
not only about positioning and messaging. We really have to stand for something. You have to sow kind of a soul, real value, and people feel it.
00:17:35
Speaker
And it sounds a bit yeah too much, almost like, yeah, it's just a brand and doing marketing. But nevertheless, why do I buy something? Because I want to be part of this. I want to also feel a bit like this.
00:17:46
Speaker
And I think Nike kind of overdid it in the last... months and years because it showed only the elite athletes, you know, and it was kind of like just do it, you can make it and it showed a bit of a pressure and Adidas kind of brought the joy back right now and that's what takes that special because there is not that much joy out there right now anymore, but I hope it's coming back.
00:18:10
Speaker
and And coming back to your company again, what do you want people to feel when they see something or listen to something from udra First of all, we want to energize them. We want to bring them into a good mood, you know, that they also feel like we understand them and we are there for them.
00:18:28
Speaker
um Whenever there's something happening out there, let's say we have high water somewhere. Our reporters are out there and they need people. And they also come back two weeks later when it's over to ask how are we doing? no That's a report. And we also have like the Uday Christmas Merry, where we are supporting um a humanitarian aid campaign in the Austrian Broadcasting Corporation.
00:18:50
Speaker
And people are donating money and artists are coming to play music. And I think things there that people get together, you know they kind of feel like they belong. They are part of a community.
00:19:01
Speaker
of our community. And that is the most precious thing that you can achieve. I like both the energizing part and the also of this community-centered approach because that's a feeling that I always got and get when I listen to it. right It's really people coming together and it's not just the moderators talking to us, but they're talking with us and then you have voices from outside coming in.
00:19:25
Speaker
And I feel like that's one of the big strengths that Because I feel like FM4 maybe has a more loyal listenership, whereas O3 really has this community approach more at their core. Exactly. We also have a program that we ask the whole country about their opinion.
00:19:46
Speaker
ah And people like it or don't like it, but it kind of like creates an interaction. and And also the personalities on air. you know You hear the people, everybody's different.
00:19:57
Speaker
But they are there, and they are there for you. And when you sit in your car in the morning and be back to work, or when you wake up and you're in the bathroom and you feel very tired, somebody speaks to you. And as I said in the beginning,
00:20:11
Speaker
ah You don't have to select the program, you know. You don't have to create a playlist. Somebody else does it for you and it's us.
Enhancing Experiences with Friction
00:20:19
Speaker
That's what makes us so special and present.
00:20:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It kind of reminds me of that Spiderman quote, with great power comes great responsibility. Yeah, exactly. Is there anything else from the trend report that still is in your head that you would like to...
00:20:37
Speaker
talk about here? Yeah, but I also thought about the element of friction that is really important and reminded me of for an experience I had when I was buying Oasis tickets.
00:20:49
Speaker
I was spending, I think, six or seven hours in the loop to wait for my moment. And that was kind of a thing I will always remember, you know, we stayed there that whole day and I was traveling with my wife from Munich to Vilna while waiting for this.
00:21:04
Speaker
to make sure that the internet is always like um that I'm online and then'm I'm available. um And then suddenly close to Vienna, I could enter the but the shop site, you know, and I think 100 people were allowed to buy, but that didn't work.
00:21:20
Speaker
So we had a clear topic here, a problem of the user experience. So the technical part, the performance part. I feel important, of course. So it's not gone. It's not like we don't need it. Actually, we we I want to wait for some artist outside of a venue and maybe I make it or not. This is maybe different. But I was really queuing for many hours. And then I had the chance to really buy, but I couldn't because of technical issues.
00:21:48
Speaker
That's frustrating. But I feel like that's the important distinction that friction when it comes to, okay, you have to invest some effort into it, you have to set a timer, you have to be online at a certain point in time, or you have to be at a venue in real life, which is the good kind of friction. And then there is the bad kind of friction, which is just technical stuff that doesn't work.
00:22:11
Speaker
And then I feel like there is also a mix where those who can overlap. I was at a um party in January. It was a pyjama party in the Hoxton Hotel. And party was great. Everyone was happy. And then it was like 11 p.m. And then the fire alarm got off.
00:22:30
Speaker
Technical issue. Everybody had to go outside. And first, everybody was super... exhausted and it was of course freezing it was January and everybody was just in their pajamas and then when we went outside a whole new atmosphere developed out of this and then there were people singing outside to to stay warm and conversations just happened because there was no loud music anymore and that element of the technical friction actually brought the whole group closer together and then when we entered again it was a little bit weird at the beginning because nobody was dancing and then dance fulfilled again and then everybody was happy again But I feel like it can also be something good if it doesn't hinder you from actually getting the experience that you wanted. Yeah, that's right. And we will cannot really plan this.
00:23:17
Speaker
So it created a moment of surprise. Yes, exactly. David, do you have any question for me at this moment? Yeah, um I also thought about that. And I really want to know, like, what kind of advice would you give your 18 year old self? Oh, OK.
00:23:37
Speaker
Now I have to think about who I really was when I was 18. I would probably tell myself first, things will go great.
00:23:49
Speaker
if you are optimistic about the future, and second, to stay in touch with your inner child,
00:24:02
Speaker
Because I felt like in my 20s, I kind of lost track on that and had to reconnect with my inner child again to still find it okay to be playful, to be funny, to be weird in a certain way.
Life Lessons on Authenticity and Perseverance
00:24:16
Speaker
And number three actually connects to that last word. In my early 20s, late 20s, I was so focused on being part of what everybody else is doing.
00:24:29
Speaker
And... I was focused a lot on not being too weird. And I feel like actually that weirdness is what sets us all apart from each other.
00:24:40
Speaker
And it's good to be weird. And that's also one of the things that I loved about writing the trend report that this word cringe is becoming cute. So you do something that is a little bit weird. And I have days when my girlfriend tells me, oh you're so weird. Why are you saying it like that? And we're both laughing about it. It's okay to be weird.
00:24:59
Speaker
because that's who we are. and And coming back to one of the things that we discussed before, it's also something that sets us apart from AI because this endearing form of weirdness is something AI can never reproduce.
00:25:13
Speaker
So those are the three things that I would ah give my 18-year-old self advice for. Amazing. Thank you so much. Now I have to return the favor. What would you suggest to your 18-year-old self?
00:25:27
Speaker
I would say... Always follow your passion and never take a no, you know, from anybody too seriously. Because in the end, I think everything is kind of a game.
00:25:42
Speaker
You should never really overthink too much, be afraid of anything too much, you know. It's not worth it in end. And when you have a certain goal, try really to go there.
00:25:54
Speaker
Maybe it takes a bit longer. Maybe it doesn't happen within a year or two. Maybe it will spend years. But if you constantly have to focus on that, you can really make it because it happens to you.
00:26:06
Speaker
And on the way there, build a network. That's the most important thing. You can study, of course. You always learn. You are always curious.
00:26:16
Speaker
In the best case, I would say, many people should really embrace all the new technology that's coming. And then you can really make it and get there. And I think that's what matters the most, that you have kind of a good feeling, you know, with your work, with your life, with your surroundings.
Conclusion: Appreciation and Insights
00:26:38
Speaker
And that's what matters the most to me. What a perfect way to end this conversation. Thank you so much for this question, all the answers, the perspectives and the insights you shared. I really appreciate you taking the time and speaking with me today. Thank you so much, Florian. It's been a pleasure.
00:26:58
Speaker
And I'm looking forward to the next cup of coffee we can share. Me too. See you. All right. And that's it for today. If something here made you think, send it to someone who could use it.
00:27:09
Speaker
You can find me on LinkedIn or through my newsletter called Future Strategies on Substack for More. And if you're ready to move your marketing from insight to action, reach out.
00:27:20
Speaker
That's what I do. Until next time.