Transcript
Speaker: Brands can become boring very, very quickly. And boring is different to each and every one. But the common factor is brands get boring when they are perceived just as someone who is not able to talk to or to communicate with. Welcome to Friction Reloaded, the podcast.
Speaker: I'm Florian Schleicher, a marketing strategist, and this is where we cut through the noise. Because everyone is talking about trends, but most of it is noise. In this podcast, I sit down with industry leaders, marketers, and strategists.
Speaker: And together, we don't just talk about what's coming. We uncover what it means and what you can do with it. It's all about real perspectives and actionable insights. No fluff.
Speaker: So let's dive in. Today I'm speaking with Christian Schneider. He's the director of digital marketing and consumer service at MANA. In his role, he is responsible for a wide range of areas, including strengthening and professionalizing the online presence of all five brands.
Speaker: This encompasses digital advertising, platforms and websites, performance marketing and social media, as well as data analytics and consumer service, both nationally and internationally.
Speaker: Most recently, Christian worked at the children's bicycle manufacturer WUM, where he was responsible for e-commerce and later served as global head of marketing. Prior to that, he spent seven years at the automotive manufacturer Stellantis.
Speaker: After holding various positions within the Austrian organization, he then moved to the Turin headquarters in 2020, where he and his team were responsible for all digital touch points across the company's brands in the EMEA region.
Speaker: And now he works for the love brand MANA. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Christian. Thank you very much for the invitation. Happy to be here. Yes, it's great. So MANA has something that most brands would probably kill for.
Speaker: People post about your product without being asked. In one of the sub chapters of my trend report, Friction Reloaded, I talk about that comments are becoming the content. So the idea that the real brand conversation no longer happens in an ad. It happens underneath. It's like the pink packaging at the Stefan Storm. That's practically a content ecosystem on its own.
Speaker: Right. So you are responsible for digital. What's will your job when it comes to content that is already happening without your doing?
Speaker: First and foremost, I would have to be quite honest with you. I consider myself ah the most agnostic digital guy out there. So ah at the very end, ah it all comes down to what is the the actual benefit, the added value for the company.
Speaker: Even though my role is more over towards digital, I consider myself as someone who is looking for the positive outcome for the product, for the brand and for the company. And this is something where we as MANR are really working closely together with the community that we already do have. So for example, we have a community on social media right now at the time of recording at around 62K people, which doesn't sound like much, but if you take into consideration what our competitors have, it's something different. It speaks to the to the loft that is out there for the brand, to the emotions that are behind
Speaker: every story that people have with Mana since I've been here. Everyone I tell I work at Mana is like, oh, Mana. And then immediately starts with their own Mana story. Well, when I was hiking with my grandparents, when I was a kid, or I remember fondly of the times in the summer when I was on vacation with my parents, you know, the drill is like this. And we have the utmost respect for all of these stories. And we try to tell them in a way that they are authentic and where we can add the emotion where we can put the people in front of the curtain and put them on the stage and let them speak and let their emotions and their memories be present as a stamp of approval, if you may say, um on our communication measures as well. So for example, on Instagram, reposts of stories are something that we do very often because there are there are so many good content out there, even on platforms where we are not already present with our dedicated own channels. TikTok might be in a good example. TikTok, obviously, complete different content set, complete different way of communicating. And right now we are not posting regularly on TikTok, but there are so many TikTok user-generated content out there and it's an absolute blessing. And on the other hand, we try to
Speaker: leverage on that on different other platforms that might not be social. But for example, we are right now working and it doesn't seem like much because it's just a turnkey solution tool that you're able to implement. But right now we are integrating a social wall on our product detail pages on our website. And it doesn't come down to the tool that we are implementing, which as I said, is rather basic, but it comes down to again to the benefit, what benefits the consumer when he or she is on our website, they won't read for the 10th time the nutrition ingredient detail table that is on there. That's not the but added value. The added value is to engage with the brand. And this is just one of the puzzle pieces where we're able to leverage on all the good content that is out there. And as I said earlier,
Speaker: It's really something amazing to be in a position where you work for brands that are in even this position. And in one of your um most recent podcast episodes, you talked about how much emotion can you create for a toilet paper brand? I could give you the boring answer about age brackets and social demographics and everything and our target audiences. And I would say for the time being towards this question, let's stick to the brand manner. within our conglomerate of brands in our company. um
Speaker: Manner is a very positive brand when it comes to what the people associate with the brand. It's not only a brand that it's well known with a very high percentage of ah brand recognition, but moreover, it's a brand that, as I mentioned earlier,
Speaker: is working towards as much as emotions as it is working as towards as memories. So we always need to take into consideration that we are, we are a very traditional company with almost 140 years being located in Vienna and being located in Austria.
Speaker: Tradition always comes with the price and the price is that you cannot move in a completely different direction in the blink of an eye. We need to hold this tradition very highly and very fondly. And we need to go towards that every change within this company very purposefully.
Speaker: And um with the team that we have in our company, especially marketing, I'm 100% sure that we are doing the right this the right way right now. But the emotions always need to go in a way that don't alienate people who have been in love with the brand or have been consuming the brand for say 50 years. And the fun thing is, as you said, I'm also responsible with my team for consumer services. So we are actually at the very forefront of talking to the consumers, which is helping us so much on the other end of the spectrum on to know what to communicate and know how to communicate. So we have, the consumer services, and we have the community management on social. So we do know what is the concern of the people or what they are wanting us to do more, to communicate more, to show more on the one hand. and On the other hand, what are their pay points and what our content can do in order, for example, to educate people on certain things that they are asking on a regular basis, like tell us about the ah recipe or tell us about how you actually
Speaker: how is actually the manner the Apolitana Schnitte made and all these kinds of stuff. So the emotions, um long story short, we are aiming for positive emotions. We're aiming for recreating memories. We are aiming for the feeling to give you the same feeling because we didn't change the recipe in all those years to give you the same feeling that you have when you were, for example, a kid and shared the, our products with your parents, grandparents. And now maybe like i do now share the Manaschnitten with my daughter and she loves it. She loves that I'm working Manaschnitten and she's five and a half. She doesn't know about the tradition and the heritage. She just knows how the brand makes her feel and how when she and there is limited screen time for her. But if obviously she's one of the first see every new video ad that we produce and the feeling that she gets, the emotion that she gets, And this immediate response, this is what we're aiming for. And this is our main purpose that we are driven by in everything that we do, not only on social, but especially in video ads. We are a brand needs to be emotionally perceived. And video ads, for example, are a perfect way to do that. So you're playing a lot with nostalgia then?
Speaker: Nostalgia on the one hand, but nostalgia and I'm sure you have seen Mad Men, the TV show. And in one of, ah I think, season one, there was this Don Draper and Don Draper for everyone ah listening who hasn't seen the series is the main character. And he's this advertising guru in the sixties. And he's then explaining to ah one of the clients is in a pitch presentation. What does nostalgia mean? And in Greek nostalgia means the pain of the wounds from the past. So I always try to, and I don't mean to sound like a smartest year, but I always try to reframe let's, let's say nostalgia. in terms of if you only stick to what has been in the past and you try to recreate that, you completely fail to conquer further challenges that might there be in the future. yeah So what we are trying to do, obviously, is there is the heritage angle, there is the tradition angle, but this can also stand as a stamp of approval when it comes to quality.
Speaker: Our tradition is a quality assurance, you know? Like, in In times of uncertainty right now, brands, wrong brands, are an anchor point for people.
Speaker: Like, yeah if you go to Starbucks, you know that there won't be the best coffee served there. And you have worked at McDonald's in ah at the beginning of your career.
Speaker: is there the best burger that you can get all over the place at McDonald's? Don't ask me that. I'm biased. Most probably not would be my answer. And the thing is people go there because they can know what to expect when they order something for 100%. Even, even though if they are in the U S if they're in Asia, if they are in Austria, doesn't, it doesn't change that much. And this is,
Speaker: the element that we are trying to bring in here with tradition and heritage is the element of quality and the promise that wherever you are in whatever situation you are how old you are this the quality one the other one is the togetherness if if i might say like our current campaign claim would be glück verbindet which in english translates not verbatim but translates to joy that connects. So we always try to work on the emotion that, let me rephrase this, what are the feelings that can be shared and the joy that is shared in creating memories together? Obviously, a lot of our products are consummated at home.
Speaker: people buy them for themselves. um But a lot of our products, if I may look ah into the direction of our Mozartkugeln, are bought as gifts in Austria or gifts for friends where you're traveling to your friends that are maybe living in the yeah UK and you bring a gift and you often bring sweets. I remember the first student exchange or scholar exchange that I had in in school when we went, I was 14 years old, I don't know, when we went to Malta and ah my mother told me, well, you have to bring two things for them. You have to bring Mander Schnitten and Mozartkugeln. And I did exactly so. And now 25 years later, um i finally know what she's talked about.
Speaker: Yes. And that actually links to another topic from Trend Report because you mentioned experiences. Yeah. There is this trend for experiences that happen in real life that become kind of the new gold standard because more and more, and I wrote in a recent newsletter also about this, that people have to be very careful with how they spend money because um we live in economic turmoil. Inflation is rising, you know that best with prices increasing, skyrocketing sometimes. So people have to be really careful where they invest their money. And most people dedicate money then for experiences because experiences give them something more than just a short dopamine hit.
Speaker: Yeah. So I'm curious in your role, what is the relationship between the digital presence and what you are maybe building physically also for your audience?
Speaker: This is a two folded answer. One is I'm so glad that in real life is back. It's I read your report and i was grinning the whole time because I was like, it's There's a, I recently attended a conference what that was called future of marketing. And there are a lot of questionnaires which are asking, so where do you see the future of marketing going? And my honest answer is, I don't know. I just know within the 15 year time span of my career, what happened and how much stuff was changed over the years. I would say ah constant struggle to work against the market trend when you are working for love brands who are trying to work on emotions. Yeah. And then 2020 came along and there was obviously, as we all have experienced COVID, and there was a completely change in user behavior. Then there was this hype of streaming services. And within that, the good old things like product placements and collaborations came along. Something that has been forgotten at that time that people are actually have been, that have been collapsed between tv shows and
Speaker: fashion labels and all these kinds of stuff. And there but there was some sort of revive. And then over the last years as well, obviously driven by this COVID time where everyone was at home and the increase of social media usage, people have been flooded with algorithm based content.
Speaker: And you said it in, in one of our recent conversations we had that you said, you don't feel all that well when you're looking on social media all the time. It's, And it's the same for me. So I'm really happy that not only based on your report, but based on what we are experiencing as well, that in real life is back. What we are trying to do with on a digital end is going towards some sort of event based, enhancing the digital experience or prolonging it to some sort of event based stuff. For example, we have the Manna Club, where we have in Austria and Germany, these are the main two regions where the people actually are club members, the typical stuff. We have ah the promotions and we have the newsletters and all this kind of stuff. And we communicate them, dedicated different content. For example, we would do to our normal Instagram community on on certain broadcast channels, for example.
Speaker: But this year, for the first time, we are going to have a big event for them where club members can sit together and meet and talk about not only our brand, obviously, but this is the shared loft that they do have. And then then they can connect and then they can experience the real life thing that is behind every brand and every usage of every brand. This is the one thing. And on the other hand, like a lot of brands, we have been working with influencers and content creators in the past in certain, obviously niches as well, when it comes to, for example, in gaming.
Speaker: because one of our brands, Trachet Cakesy, these are like these bite-sized little snacks and they are perfect for gaming, for example. And this is one of our occasions. We are always working on playgrounds and occasions as our target focus points when it comes to media planning. We have been working with them in niches, but right now we are trying to work on bigger scale, holding an influencer event, for example, where we we are not only having the influencers and presenting a new product, that we are just launching in Austria these days, but having a big raffle and having people come from our community, the the community of the influencers coming from the press, having a big, good old fashioned meet with as many people as want to join and having the connection between the brand and the experience on the other side. And i can go on and on. We have a lot of things planned this year, especially like a summer opening for our brand Casali, who is normally playing towards sunshine and good vibes and beaches. Exactly. So there are a lot of things that we have ah in plan. And I'm so grateful for that in the world where we have, and we don't need to go in this direction right now, but like all of this AI sameness that we're experiencing right now. And I think you have elaborated on that in your report as well.
Speaker: People are longing for this emotion, this feeling, this connection. And brands can become boring very, very quickly.
Speaker: And boring is different to each and every one. But the common factor is brands get boring when they are perceived just as someone who is not able to talk to or to communicate with. And it doesn't mean that we need to be on our community management on Instagram, for example, 24 seven and respond to every question people have instantly.
Speaker: But we need to be engageable as a brand and in real life can be one of these triggers. And as I said, we are leveraging on that. And this is something that gives me a lot of hope.
Speaker: So many things that that come to my head while you said that one, just briefly about this AI sameness, you know, there is this trend of maxing comes from sadly the manosphere where it was about maxing your looks.
Speaker: But now this has entered every other category was always about becoming the best in something. And then I feel like there is a counter trend happening that is un-maxing things. yeah Just having things as they are and being real again. And then a couple of weeks ago, i posted on LinkedIn a very provocative posting that was me saying, i will unfollow everyone who visibly uses AI to create their content. And I didn't think a lot about it. And right now, I think it has 30,000 impressions. This really went wild, which is also for me a signal that a lot of people are already...
Speaker: tired of this AI sameness. Completely agree. People are drained with the same thing. yeah And perfection and AI works towards perfection. As you just said, perfection is predictable.
Speaker: It's not authentic. when People want to be entertained and engaged. Absolutely agree. Exactly. And then the real antidote, as you said, is this real life things where it's about this feeling things with my senses again, things that are real.
Speaker: And, you know, I have hosted, i think so far, 10 of these inspiration sessions for companies with the trend report. First part is I present. The second part is people work on an activation that they can do with some idea that they can generate from the trend report. And so far, every team has created things for the in real life trend because we are also humans, marketeers, and everybody wants to create these experiences. So I'm really looking forward to seeing those experiences then in the next months and years really to come to fruition because something is happening here as you describe it. And we are all very happy that those in real life activities have a comeback at the moment. Absolutely. And I think to me,
Speaker: it's so much about breaking of habits. We have been over the last years stuck into somewhat of an addiction for social media. And I don't want to exclude myself. I have a had to, and I'm responsible for a lot of digital outlets in our company or almost everyone. But the thing is, even though I deleted a lot of social apps on my phone, because there is real life out there happening. And as I said,
Speaker: Breaking the habits is something I'm currently focused on in my private life as well. So de-digitalizing, digital detox for a lot of stuff. I'm sitting in front of my PC the whole day working. And then when my daughter and my wife are asleep, just try to get my mind off work, I stream a TV show. And that's just that's just not the right thing for me to do, not not giving me the headspace that I want. So, for example, I've broken the habit and instead of doing that, I go out for a walk and just listening to podcasts and just getting in a completely different headspace. And so many people are doing maybe not this specific thing, but doing different things of breaking the habits of being stuck, glued to your phone even. That's also the trend of raw dogging things like just experiencing boredom again. And there's even one step further. So you go outside and listen to podcasts. I now have created this challenge for myself to go outside and listening to nothing. Oh, that's the next step for me. Yeah. Yesterday I did that and it felt so great to walk somewhere and just be there in the moment. And then you get these bits and pieces of conversations when people walk past you. And suddenly you experience things and you and I also got this inspiration from one of the newsletters that I read.
Speaker: And I feel like this, we're all so overwhelmed by stuff. So it actually calms us down. But the challenge is that our nervous system is now so used to these dopamine hits yeah that we're kind of like junkies who have to actually come down from all this status of overwhelm. And I think we all need to work or reframe what our dopamine hits are.
Speaker: Let me give you a quick example of what I mean by that, which just came to my mind, but it's actually very funny. As I mentioned, i have a little daughter and when we redid our kitchen, we bought a fancy-pancy stove slash oven thingy from Miele.
Speaker: And it does a lot for you, like a thermomix or something. And I love cooking... I love cooking and it gives me a lot of pleasure and and I'm able to relax when I do that. And I think that's the same with AI. is like It does a lot of stuff for me and even stuff that I love, but it helps me so much and gives me headspace and time to do other things.
Speaker: I don't know if you follow the analogy or if I'm explaining it in the right way, but yeah it makes me bolder. Even with cooking, knowing that this... technical piece made by the company mentioned before is able to do stuff. I'm trying out recipes I would have never done. And I'm bolder as well in the workspace because I know with AI, have the support and stuff of like getting there.
Speaker: So I think we need to reframe the way of what is giving our dopamine hits because dopamine hits can be just chatting with your daughter because there is something that actually gives you the time or saves you the time in order to do so. Yes, I agree on all of that. And and also this being careful of what we're actually outsourcing, not to outsource the thing that we actually love doing and that we're good at.
Speaker: You mentioned that there was a question also you had in that. The question for me is AI and looking at AI, you can, there is no black and white. You cannot say, oh, AI is the most amazing thing ever. Yeah.
Speaker: It isn't because we're all experiencing at the same time, so it doesn't give you any leverage anymore as ah as a company or or as a marketeer. On the other hand, you cannot say we are doomed and AI is the downfall of mankind.
Speaker: But you are, since you were are... Working on your excellent reports, I have to say, which I'm always reading from start to the back. In a world where there is this gray area, when there is this narrative that's often prolonged by the media or by other outlets about how negative everything is and all the crisis and the wars and everything.
Speaker: every time I read your reports, they have this like positive outlook. And to me, the funny thing is, or the question is like with AI, how are you able to have this positivity, this, um how do you not fall into the deep end when doing your reports? Because I know for a fact that you screen so many surveys and trend reports and everything that is out there for your reports, but for every survey, there is another one saying the exact opposite. So how do you, you know what I mean? How do you,
Speaker: stay on track to create something that's not only worth reading for me as a market here, but actually gives me hope. Like we talked about in real life, it gives me hope that we are on a path where not everything is going in a direction that we all don't want to think about. Yes, I also sometimes wonder about how that happens. I think at my core, I'm a very optimistic person.
Speaker: Ever since I started my career, I always thought things will be fine. Everything will move into the right direction. Things will fall into place. And everything turned out fine always. And I think about this when I think about a lot of areas in my life. I'm very optimistic that things will just be great, whether they go according to plan or not.
Speaker: Right. So whenever I look at stuff, when I look at trends... I'm currently preparing an update for the friction reloaded trend report with a couple of new developments also that I see. I am myself always drawn to the positive things.
Speaker: it So I'm looking at this trend of maxing things as discussed before, which is something that I find very unattractive and very tedious and exhausting. Yeah.
Speaker: And then I think, so what could be the opposite of that coin? What would be a thing that actually interests me? And then I look into, okay, so what is the counter trend to that? Because trends are basically like insights come from trend, counter trend, what sits in between.
Speaker: And so I'm always drawn to the positive aspects because that's what I enjoy. And because of that, I then reflect this in my work. But having said that, it's not always easy.
Speaker: Yeah. Because right now with AI, for example, who knows whether you and I will still have our jobs in three years, because in a way we're also making ourselves redundant. And I had a conversation with a friend of mine yesterday who works at Too Good To Go. He's the head of brand there.
Speaker: And we talked about what will happen and we don't know because we're now training basically all these models with all input that we have.
Speaker: yeah Now the challenge is, You and me, we know that the work that we can generate strategically is way better than anything that is out there. But many people don't know that because they have never seen really great work.
Speaker: And many people don't know how to curate ai Sorry for jumping in here. Yes. And then what happens is they type something into Claw, ChatGPT, wherever. They get a result, which is sounding good.
Speaker: And they think, okay, let's just do this. So then we'll enter a downward spiral in terms of quality, which will be reflected in companies' growth in the coming years. But for now, They are outsourcing a lot to that. So that's what's making me a little bit, it just gives me pause and and it makes me reflect, okay, so what will that mean for all our jobs? Having said that, bringing the optimism back, I've always been a believer in good people will always find solutions and will always find work.
Speaker: And even if it's not what we're doing right now, we'll find something else. I am not worried as well. And you framed it perfectly. The thing that worries me a bit is And I completely agree with you.
Speaker: We are experienced enough in order to detect the, pardon me, the bullshit from the relevant stuff that's out there produced by AI, but we are able to curate it based on our experience. But the thing is, how do you build a pipeline of people at our knowledge base, at our age, when right now people starting in the industry at, I don't know, 24 years old.
Speaker: And how do you build the pipeline of people getting to the knowledge that we do have to the experience that we do have when all they do right now is taking AI stuff for granted. That's something that it's, it's very interesting for me to reflect on. And I don't have a solution. That's one thing. They use these tools. And then the other challenge is they will oftentimes not even get the chance to build the career that we had.
Speaker: yeah Because the things that I can do now is something I was not able to do when I started my career. I wasn't at that level. For sure, me neither. But the only reason i got to where I am right now, being an expert in these things and being senior or whatever you call it, was because I had the chance to grow. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And that's also something because I teach at the university and then the students ask me, so what should we do about our careers? And I don't know what they should do because it's a big challenge. I always say to them, try to get as much work experience as you can as fast as possible. yeah But that was also true for us when we started our career.
Speaker: Absolutely. It's sir interesting times. let's ah yes Let's say, yeah, absolutely. and And then one more observation in the US, there are now all these commencement speeches. And I don't know if you've seen, but there are all these tech CEOs now giving the speeches for the students.
Speaker: Yeah. And they all talk about AI and then they get booed by the students because they are angry already. And more and more people are angry with ai because it actually takes away potential or a career path that they have outlined for themselves when they started their studies. Couldn't agree more.
Speaker: Couldn't agree more. And I think we were just talking before about people being fed up with algorithm-based stuff. Like take, be real as an example, um where there is nothing polished out there. There is just authenticity. And at the end of the day, People want to see different stuff. And I remember talking to you a couple of weeks ago and you said, remember the time when we were able to scroll to the end of the feed? yeah There was like this end part. And with with Be Real, there is a the end based on how many people you actually interact with. And if you have 25 friends there, then you're done. And the app tells you, well, come back another time based on the methodology of the app. Let's not go into the detail, but it's so the the antidote of this shallow social media stuff. And this makes me a bit hopeful that this works. It makes me hopeful that in younger age brackets, TikTok and Instagram have reduced usage time.
Speaker: There is a glimpse of hope out there, I would say, even though usage time might now spend with AI instead of social media, which would be concerning and call it a whole other level. Like this authenticity is something that's so core and so important for brands ah in order to use marketing words again as brand experiences. Like we obviously FMCG industry people need to taste and experience our products. But in the past, we would have done sampling um activities and our sampling activities now turn into brand experiences because they get bigger and we think about what emotions do we want to transfer by people interacting with us and not just having promoters standing there and handing out sample packages of our products. But we now have a big kind of circus all around it and people can engage with the
Speaker: even though like the claim of, uh, of a certain product where we do have, and we bring the claim to life by having a different kind of stuff, you know, it's like, for example, we have a product which is called snack minis and the claim is snack minis feel maxi.
Speaker: And we had the sampling experience where everything was like oversized. So you were playing Fierge Wind. I don't know the translation in English, but you were playing Fierge Wind on a, oversized figure being bored or you were sitting in a sun chair that was three times the normal size and you were feeling completely small compared like the other way around and then obviously by tasting the product connecting it with the product campaign claim bringing this kind of stuff to life so it's generating emotions i always come back to what we started the conversation with But that's the thing and advertising needs to cut through the noise that is out there and it's easier said and done way easier said and done. I don't have a solution, but we, I can only promise you and the company and my team that we will always keep trying because if you're only working towards generating a liking of a brand or a product, we are not there. We need to work towards generating a wanting of the product and wanting sounds like really evil, like you have a drive to get and buy this product. I don't mean that by that. I mean that with the one thing is that you have a connection with the brand and say, if I want to buy this kind of product, I'm going to buy Mana or Casali or whatnot. And this is the thing. Even in digital, as I said earlier, I'm agnostic how much portion of the budget goes towards digital because it needs to add a value and it needs to add a benefit.
Speaker: And if digital can be a part of perfect, but not everything needs to be like we all used to think over the last 10 years, I don't know. I don't have, you are the survey guy, not me, but over the last 10 years, if you would look at digital media spend in the media mix of companies, there is a big rise. And in our company, it's the same as well, but you need to do it properly. You need to do it thoughtfully. you need to do it purposefully. You need to do it integrated and it needs to,
Speaker: lead to something. We should not in digital hide ourselves behind KPIs anymore. There is no added value. If I talk about like the click to open rate of a newsletter, if nobody's engaging with that, and if nobody's engaging, nobody's buying like all this kind of stuff that needs to be a big picture that works holistically together.
Speaker: And I think it's a promising time that a lot of companies are getting that right right now. And I tend to think my team and I do that as well. So it's ah challenging times, but staying on your positivity level, hopefully promising times.
Speaker: That sounds like the perfect way to end this conversation. Because then I had way more questions, way more topics I wanted to touch upon. But as I anticipated, we went way deeper than just covering like the broad spectrum. So thank you very much for coming on the show.
Speaker: The pleasure all mine, Florian. Thank you very much. I really enjoyed talking to you. Likewise. I look forward to the next cup of coffee, maybe with a couple of Manaschnitten that we can talk deeper again. Promise. Thank you very much. See you soon.
Speaker: And that's it for today. If something here made you think, send it to someone who could use it. You can find me on LinkedIn or through my newsletter called Future Strategies on Substack for More.
Speaker: And if you're ready to move your marketing from inside to action, reach out. That's what I do. Until next time.
