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Meet Jenna and Ryan - Two Suburban Pigs
58 Plays1 year ago
Lance opens with a story about Jenna and Ryan's life in the suburbs of Houston. Their life is busy and materially rich but all is not what it seems. The "Pieces" discuss Jenna and Ryan and share their beliefs on suburban life and American excess.
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Transcript
Introduction to Shame On You America
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to Shame On You America. My name is Episode 2. Meet Jenna and Ryan.
00:00:30
Speaker
Many of us find ourselves stuck in the suburbs, trapped in a place that overwhelms our senses and subverts our self-control. Have a seat in my classroom as we take a closer look at American life in the suburbs. Meet Jenna, age 42, and Ryan, age 43, Anderson. An unremarkable American couple living in Sugarland, Texas outside of Houston.
00:00:58
Speaker
Both are university educated, both are normal, whatever that means, and both have decent jobs. There are two kids, Timmy, age 12, and Tilly, age 9, are active in athletic kids. Timmy is a heck of a baseball player, and Tilly is showing promise as a midfielder in soccer. The Andersons are a delightful American family. Please.
The Suburban Lifestyle of the Andersons
00:01:21
Speaker
Lesson number one, life is expensive in the suburbs.
00:01:27
Speaker
The Andersons own a $540,000, 5-bedroom, 4-bathroom, 5,300-square-foot semi-custom home. With faux shutters on the windows, a beautiful but sleek, whitish-gray kitchen with speckled brown quartz countertops surrounded by sturdy, high-quality cabinets, not the ones from Home Depot.
00:01:47
Speaker
They have a basement bar and half kitchen for hosting parties, a built-in patio grill in the backyard, and they recently put in a fountain in the front yard to drown out the traffic noise. For the kids, they have a giant jumpzilla trampoline, a built-in goal-rilla basketball hoop, and Ryan recently purchased a backyard batting cage for Timmy.
00:02:08
Speaker
For run-of-the-mill family trips they have a mid-size motor home that they use twice per year for road trips to Missouri and sometimes Colorado. They also have two jet skis for occasional trips to Trinity Bay and the Gulf. Jenna and Ryan love to travel and since the kids have been about six or three years old They've been to Niagara Falls, Disney World, Mexico, Montreal, Jamaica, Hawaii, San Diego, the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Vail in Aspen, Costa Rica, and last year they splurged for Ireland. Yolo, motherfuckers. Jenna drives an Audi Q7 retail $60,000, and Ryan has a Porsche Cayenne retail $85,000. They also have a five-year-old Honda Pilot in the driveway that's waiting for Timmy when he starts to drive.
00:02:57
Speaker
Jenna sells coconut flavor extracts to food manufacturers and makes $98,000 give or take her commission bonus. She fell into this job out of college and now she can rattle off all the national brands that use her coconut extracts.
00:03:12
Speaker
Ryan sells IV pumps to regional hospitals and makes $112,000 give or take his commission bonus. The couple makes really good money for Sugar Land Texas. oh that's right The Anderson's have $16,000 in their checking account, $12,000 in their savings, $95,000 in their retirement counts, they started late, plus $280,000 in home equity.
00:03:36
Speaker
Thank God, Ryan says. They have a home loan of about $260,000 and consumer debt from their cars, motorhome, and jet skis of $190,000. Their net worth is negative $47,000.
Stress and Isolation in Suburbia
00:03:52
Speaker
Lesson number two, keep humming Anderson's.
00:03:57
Speaker
Just down the street from the Anderson's home is Trader Joe's, Outback Steakhouse, Buffalo Wild Wings, Olive Garden, Raising Canes, Home Depot, and Acosco. Go four more miles and they have the Sugarland Town Square, the most kick-ass outdoor shopping mall you have ever seen. Whatever the Anderson's need, they can find within five miles.
00:04:19
Speaker
Every weekend the couple attends youth sports events, does a bit of yard work, Ryan maybe washes one of the cars by hand, he doesn't trust automatic car washing machines, not with his cayenne. ha Jenna hits Costco and maybe Trader Joe's. They often reward themselves after a long week with dinner out on either Friday or Saturday night, and on Sunday they always go to breakfast after church.
00:04:44
Speaker
Those meals can get a little expensive, but it's quality family time. What they really want to start limiting is the weekday eating out. There's a lot of Chick-fil-A consumed with all those sports practices for Timmy and Tilly. Jenna has tried some quick home recipes, but the kids always squawk about it, and she's often too tired after a day of selling coconut extract.
00:05:06
Speaker
The Andersons are busy people, and they thrive on the convenience of a place like Sugarland to keep their life humming. Last week, when the air conditioning broke, Ryan could get bids from four different HVAC companies in a matter of hours. He went with the middle bid, $2600. Always go with the middle bid, he says. Net worth, negative $49,600. Jenna and Steve both travel quite a bit for work. They usually stagger their travels so one person can be home with the kids. It can get stressful trading off like this, but both are dedicated to their jobs and their kids. They don't get as much time together as they used to, and sometimes that feels hard. Lesson number three, the suburban curtain.
00:05:55
Speaker
There's more to the Anderson's suburban life than you've learned so far. Shall we dig a little deeper? oh yeah But before we pull back the curtain, let's remember that Anderson's are good people.
00:06:08
Speaker
Lately Jenna has been feeling a bit isolated. Her best friend moved to Albany, and she hates admitting this, but her marriage isn't as good as people think. She hasn't been attracted to Ryan for years. He let himself go in a lot of ways. Not just his weight, but he's more prone to emotional outbursts and he ignores her for days sometimes. She's concerned about his mood swings.
00:06:31
Speaker
Jenna has struggled with her weight too. No time for exercise. She doesn't feel as pretty as she used to, but she's found herself craving the embrace of other men lately. Last Sunday she flirted with the youth pastor and felt exhilarated by the feeling of another man paying attention to her. old esra She's rereading Fifty Shades of Grey and it's igniting her passion and her womanhood. i know that's right Now nobody knows this, but there's a coconut flavor buyer named James that comes on really strong when she visits their granola bar manufacturing plant in Dallas. At first she was weirded out by this guy, now she finds it fun. He's 10 years older but energetic for his age and last night Jenna had a fantasy about sleeping with him. They were on the manufacturing floor and James hit the red button to stop production and there were all these granola bars lined up on the conveyor belt.
00:07:23
Speaker
James swiftly swipes off the unwrapped granola bars onto the factory floor and he gently lifts Jenna onto the conveyor. They make love right there on the conveyor belt in broad daylight with factory workers walking around. A silly fantasy she knows. And she felt so guilty in the morning when she saw Ryan and the kids having breakfast.
00:07:43
Speaker
but it's getting harder and harder for Jenna to see a future with Ryan. She's constantly worried about money and every time she tries to talk about it with Ryan, he says they work hard and they deserve nice things. food on the tape But Jenna isn't sure how long she can sell coconut flavor extracts and with the economy and all, her job may not be as stable as she needs.
00:08:03
Speaker
Jenna finds it easy to retreat into her Sugarland Texas life. She puts on a good face like most people do in the burbs. She spends money to feel better because she doesn't know what else to do. But she's got bigger problems today. Her son Timmy is dealing with some emotional regulation issues. He just threw a bat at one of his teammates at baseball practice. Motherfucking Timmy. Always Timmy.
00:08:27
Speaker
Ryan will admit he's never felt more lost. He has no friends and there's nobody in his life to confront his increasingly concerning behavior. Ryan has been putting a lot of pressure on Timmy lately. Sports are a way of life in Texas and Ryan wants Timmy to be the best baseball player he can be. Last Sunday, after a lesson on humility at church, Ryan ironically loses all sight of humility and proceeds to scream at Timmy for not keeping his eye on the ball and hitting practice.
00:08:55
Speaker
He says, Timmy, why can't you fucking hit the ball? When will you stop being a pussy? Hit the ball, Timmy. Timmy had a major meltdown and Ryan spent 45 minutes trying to recover the kid's confidence. Sadly, not 30 minutes later, Ryan was seen yelling, Jesus Christ, Timmy, hit the damn ball. Hit the fucking ball. Everyone's yelling at their kids in new sports. So while Ryan feels bad about it, he actually fits in with the other dads.
00:09:21
Speaker
However, Ryan's temper is a part of a larger issue. He's neglected himself over the last decade and succumbed to vices. He talks a lot about craft whiskey and he often reads about whiskey making and watches videos on YouTube about it, but Ryan has been drinking more than people know lately. He hides his problem by pretending it's a hobby, but now he needs it to leave the house, and he needs it during the work day too.
00:09:45
Speaker
His mood swings are getting worse. All the post-drinking eating he does probably doesn't help his mood either. He sometimes curses Sugar Land Texas because there's so much good food everywhere. He says, how can I fucking resist? Ryan is really checked out these days. He thinks Jenna hates him and he wonders if she knows how much he's drinking.
00:10:04
Speaker
He is so mad at himself that he's been doing more self-destructive things. He's been taking money out of their savings to make bets on Draft Kings, and even worse, recently he's been obsessed with determining if the teenage girls he knows from the neighborhood have an OnlyFans
Critique of Suburban Consumption
00:10:19
Speaker
page. oh thats right A few of them do, and he's been masturbating obsessively to their content. know it that's right Conclusion Did the suburb of Sugarland, Texas create this precarious life for Jenna and Ryan? Hell yes. Technically, no. But the environment has zero guardrails for health and balance. There's something about American culture and the places we live that pulls us all into mindless consumption. The suburbs are particularly good at breeding this.
00:10:48
Speaker
In the suburbs, you have that big house to keep you occupied with filling it and maintaining it. You have the social comparison pressures of other families bringing home new gadgets and big toys, and you have the ready-made convenience to buy anything you want. Nobody in the suburbs will shame you for material excess. nope In the suburbs, it's not at all hard to exist in the continuous vortex of earn, buy, consume. This happens almost subconsciously. And it happens at the expense of so many other things. Our health, relationships, spirituality, and goals take a backseat to maintaining a material lifestyle we're not even sure we want.
00:11:28
Speaker
Jenna and Ryan are good people, but they're totally fucked in Sugarland, Texas. If they can develop some serious willpower and discipline overnight, maybe they can keep from falling further and further into the suburban death spiral. How many of us live this unbalanced, mindless life in suburban America? And what do we do about it?
00:11:50
Speaker
Maybe we could restart our self-actualization journeys by deprioritizing convenience. And maybe we don't need all those things to live a good life. Nah, we probably do. And what would happen to the economy if we didn't consume? U.S.A. U.S.A. U.S.A.
00:12:51
Speaker
Cute, yeah. Little overweight as I outlined, which I feel guilty about sometimes, so but it's a symbol of excess in America. I don't think it's a moral issue, bro. I just think that our culture really helps people get to that place. We could talk about that more, but the burbs, let me disclose first, and here's why I'm a piece of shit. I live in the suburbs.
00:13:13
Speaker
I'm a piece of shit cause I live in the suburbs and just created an episode where I described the sinister insidious place called the burbs. did Did you grow up in the suburbs? I mean, I ah guess, I guess in like sort of a, well, there were HUD homes by where we lived and we were in a town home and it was. Different vibe. A denser area, yeah.
00:13:40
Speaker
Where you lived, it wasn't necessarily like excess. No, there was no excess issue. Yeah, but they're striving, obviously striving. And then this front, like South Aurora, that's like the sprawling suburbs of character lists.
00:13:57
Speaker
strip malls and big box, it was there. That was like really was there, right? Yeah. It's unbelievable. It's even more unbelievable now. And the West in particular um was subjected to, as you said, on last episode, companies like KB Homes, Richmond Homes, going through and building seas, huge seas of gray, beige, light blue homes.
00:14:24
Speaker
it's When you see the size of those developments, you're like, who the who where are the people coming from? who's but There must be neighborhoods that are boarded up somewhere because you're like, where are they coming from? ah Well, and I sometimes think about that, but they' when you think of the size of these homes and the the land that they're using,
00:14:46
Speaker
it really doesn't take that many people to fill one of these giant developments. It's like four square miles or five square miles. It's not as many people as we think. Yeah, but I'm just saying like they live somewhere. Now they're all here. It's like new houses. So it's like, they didn't like move. They didn't change houses in the development. It's like, all right. But I immigrated from the other States.
00:15:10
Speaker
But I feel like what you laid out there with Jenna, first of all, I wish you'd have her have there as like overweight and oppressed. I wish she was like one of those like workout, excessive moms. It's like always do include exercises and stuff. That's kind of where I wanted to go. And then you made her like fat and overweight.
00:15:28
Speaker
No, I didn't say she was fat. I said she was a she was concerned about her weight, but no, you're right. I could have made her tightly wound and really geared up. Yeah, just competitive super competitive and everything is like, I have a better ass than you. Yeah, played that version out. Yeah, no, I think this was more apropos. But I want to say, and you think it's, I want to propose the question. You think it's a newer thing that's like,
00:15:54
Speaker
take on debt, live to the fullest regardless of your, of what you're like. Cause you, you know, as you pointed out many times over the years that I lived, I grew up in a pretty nice neighborhood, at least when you knew me. yeah And I never, I felt like the people there, I mean, I don't have a way to know. It wasn't like I was checking their credit scores. Like it was sort of a conservative thought out approach. You know, like my parents, nobody would ever accuse my parents of being like excess people, even like, and like,
00:16:23
Speaker
I don't think a lot of people are like that. Like they got there. Well, first of all, housing prices and wouldn't let you like, like, so you, you know what I mean? Like you didn't have to take on a crazy mortgage because that house wasn't that much relative to like b prices of today. So, but i but I think like everyone there just worked and and made money, made a reasonable money, like debt to, you know, debt to equity or debt to revenue ratio was probably good.
00:16:48
Speaker
Yeah, um I ever mean remember my parents talking about it like you should never get a house that's I think what I don't know what the rule is like two and a half times your annual salary or something like people have rules that they live by. Yeah, and then that's how they did it.
00:17:02
Speaker
Right. No, you're right. And in that era, the people that lived in that neighborhood were high level professionals for the most part. So you're talking about successful dentists or C-suite folks or near C-suite like your dad in companies. And that is a reasonable neighborhood. And by today's standards, Wade Phillips lived there for a while.
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah, Wade Phillips is the coach of Broncos. That's insane. And so did Ed McCaffrey, by the way, who is a successful wide receiver in the NFL. Easy Ed. Yeah, like, so I do think this whole like just X, I don't know if you call it XS, but this is a sort of a new thing because that it's easier to get access to money or what or it's just morally we're crumbling. Why do you think this is happening?
00:17:45
Speaker
I just think standard standards come into place in society for what the good life is. And it does feel like a never-ending hamster wheel seeking more and more. So the standard of a nice house has changed over time. And your old house, which in that era was phenomenal, right? It's average run of the mill crib now. right I mean, people would be happy to have it. A lot of people would be happy to have it, but like it's not like, oh my gosh. right So land was something you don't see now.
00:18:15
Speaker
You mentioned laying in the thing, but yeah. I just think if everybody's striving for that, ah you get a level of ridiculousness and cartoonish living that we're seeing today, which you know these these places are are ridiculous and what people are willing to do for it in terms of sacrificing their health, their time, well
Impact of Suburbia on Society and Character
00:18:35
Speaker
-being. The striving does seem to be more ridiculous. it If you remember when you were young, and I mean, i could I don't know why. I don't really feel the pressure that I should as far as like, but if you ever lived in a financially stressful situation where you don't have enough money or you're always worried about it, it sucks. It's taxing emotionally and physically.
00:19:00
Speaker
And people are doing it to themselves now. There's poverty in the ghetto, and there's poverty. These people are like, yeah, we've lived like that forever. But then there's people now strapped with debt. And just the pressure that you think, it's got to be kind of like a longevity-crushing event. It's like the pressure of that worried about money sucks. What are they driving on?
00:19:29
Speaker
Mercedes, whatever, a Porsche, an Audi Q7. Your Audi Q7's not gonna relieve you from the pressure of like, fuck, if anything happens, like you laid it out they had 16,000 in savings and a shitload of debt. If anything happens, like COVID hits them too hard, they're really fucked, because they don't yeah they don't have like, or what happened to me? You know, like we just lose your job randomly, you don't they've hadn't theyt they're screwed.
00:19:56
Speaker
Right. And this is a society we live in and it it breeds it. It really does. I think too, I just learned our consumer debt levels now have finally reached record levels. So people have obviously been, well, they were revenge spending was the term after the pandemic and then They have been recently racking up insane levels of debt to probably compensate for inflation and and just their own preferences to to YOLO motherfucker um so Yeah, and I feel like the that debt thing, you know when you're you know, you're in your uh 20s and you got people just keep keep getting thrown fucking weddings and bachelor parties at you and all this you're like, fuck I can't get out of this
00:20:38
Speaker
and then And then people are just looking at, or I'm gonna go back to school, I'm gonna take on some school debt to get my MBA. or And that's all looked at as normal. And now, but that cycle of like, okay, I'm gonna borrow and then I'll ah i'll get it back later. Now it's being extended in the US and it's starting to spread everywhere even here, where it's like, that's a 30 or 40 year cycle now, not like a five to 10 year, like, all right, I'm gonna get my shit together. It's just like, it's extended. I wonder if it's an issue or not.
00:21:06
Speaker
I used to use this example with people. I was an enrollment counselor for about eight months at this shitty for-profit university. This was kind of between college and stuff. And I tried to convince them to come to school. And I remember several kids would be like, well, I can't do this because I have to make my truck payment.
00:21:24
Speaker
And like I would try to explain opportunity costs of like they have this debt that's completely stressful and limiting them and their prospects. Obviously you go to school as an investment. And so they've just kind of lost freedom already by locking in that debt. And you compound that dramatically for your average suburban couple. I have met or suspected to have met many Jenna and Ryan's.
00:21:49
Speaker
And I'm sure you have too, where you see all this stuff, you understand, you have a sense of their jobs and you go, okay, wow. How are you doing that? How are you doing that? You might say, well, they inherited and parents gave them some money and that might be the case, but the statistics don't play out that way. But this notion of opportunity cost, which is an economic concept of what you give up when you make one choice, but when you lock yourself into debt,
00:22:16
Speaker
You just have a cycle of justification that you have to make because you have the debt. So like you start saying, I love my job or my job's pressure on me to travel so much, that's okay because my job is important to me. But no, your job really is just the means that you keep from drowning in your debt. I mean, yeah, I don't know because there's also like the person that's super like, sorry,
00:22:43
Speaker
not gonna order and I'm not going in with you on an appetizer because I have a plan. like people like the You think it's better to be excessive the other way? like just not The appetizer is a bad example, but like alright I'm not going to do anything from 25 to 50. I'm not going anywhere. I'm not doing anything because I have a financial plan. like well There's ah there's a meet a middle ground probably, right? but there There is, but like you live in society and I'd say the culture accepts which version though.
00:23:13
Speaker
Well, the cultures like pay for it later. Go for it and pay for it later. Not like, okay, I want to take a ah vacation in June. I'm going to start putting away, you know, 20 bucks a day now to do it. It's like, no, just finance the fucker and pay for it after later. And you never get caught up because you keep doing it. Because when you're done with your vacation in June, you got plan.
00:23:35
Speaker
Right. So the culture supports that side. That's what I said in the intro episode, the shame episode, that the culture supports that excess. Nobody's going to question you if you come home with a boat. Nobody's going to shame you for that. They're going to be like, right on row. If you're the guy penny pinching, you're like, you fucking geek.
00:23:56
Speaker
Yeah, but if you if you roll in talking about, yeah, where I want to save some money, we're trying to, I want to pay off my mortgage, ah that that's usually triggering. It's sort of like saying, I don't want to have beer tonight, bro. I'm i'm not drinking tonight.
00:24:09
Speaker
So the culture supports it. It's an interesting environment in the suburbs. I think the whole point of it is like that environment where you do have a house with big garage, big basement, places to put stuff. It really does trap you into that mindset of of excess, which I've always found interesting and and disgusting at times.
00:24:32
Speaker
It's funny. You mentioned you say you live in the suburbs, but not necessarily in that style of suburbs. You actually live in like a down, like a suburban downtown or something, right? Like, uh, yeah, I live in a, like a, it's more urban feeling. It's like a 2,200 square foot house. So it's not like, which to many people's standards, like Sugarland, Texas is standards and Dallas or whatever. It's like, damn boy, you slumming. So.
00:24:59
Speaker
Well, let me tell you about Ryan trying to search for his neighbor's daughter's only fans pages. Nasty. Yeah, that's ah that was a curve ball you threw in there.
00:25:13
Speaker
Is this is this um like how real do you think this example is? I think it's actually quite with without the only fans thing, but just in general, sort of the debt to equity ratio, the the trouble marriage, because we laid out they're making 200 grand a year and they're failing like in so many different ways.
00:25:36
Speaker
right Yeah, I don't think it's uncommon. and I don't think negative net worth is uncommon either. Um, and I think the statistics bear that out too. So now are they susceptible to all this stuff is the wife having a fantasy of her coworkers is the dude, like I said, you know, addicted to porn and doing draft Kings and also an alcoholic. No, I mean, I'm that actually, maybe probably I mean, that's fairly accurate. yeah But people are like, yeah, I drink or yeah, like people like porn. that's That's pretty accurate. I don't know if this is like all part of the same story or, you know, the the sort of like access story. you say the Basically, the suburbs create an environment where you're kind of depressed and therefore you look for, you have ah it affects your relationship and you look for vices and and it's kind of all snowballs is was what the example is.
00:26:36
Speaker
Well, it could be the case. And what I'm saying about the suburbs specifically is there are no guardrails in that environment to protect you from excess, which often leads to mounting debt, often leads to you which like leads to you making choices that aren't particularly good for your health.
00:26:55
Speaker
And then ultimately results in you wanting to check out. And the way you check out is often vices. And for men, I make fun of the most typical ones. And then for Jenna, I'm making fun of what we hear about, right? Like, you know, drifting off into fantasy novels and wishing life was more wonderful in all this. Yeah. That's a common cycle.
00:27:17
Speaker
I think some of that is just like, you know, it's it's could be some of the suburbs, but there's a bit of like, the pressure of it all, like, there's like a bit of midlife crisis in that story. Sure. And like, that that probably could happen anywhere. But I just think the I like the whole life that we got going for ourselves with sort of the commute, and the pressure and gotta to get the kids here, there and their sports are so important. And like, it Because the reality is to keep up that, like to barely get behind that life, both people need to work. That puts a little stress on time and home management and all that stuff. And then that's like, I think that's what puts people in a lot of stress, just that like always running and nothing getting actually done like is part of it.
00:28:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think too many people will fall prey to just not being satisfied. I've fallen prey to it myself. I think just needing to have the house completely tight and to upgrade certain things. And, you know, I've fallen prey to buying.
00:28:18
Speaker
cars that I didn't really need. Nothing like a Porsche Cayenne, but i just it's just it's an environment that really compels you to want more. And the social comparison out there in the burbs is it's tough stuff. And i some people resist it. They're just happy with their home. But like just look at Christmas decorations, bud. I mean, at what point do you say to yourself, wow, I've gone overboard. And oh, well, that's fun, Lance. It's fun stuff. But at what point do you say, no,
00:28:48
Speaker
You've gone overboard. You're not competing. I love Christmas. Yeah, just because, you know, just because put out 17 blow up dolls for Christmas and Halloween doesn't mean you got to follow them. It's just a weird environment. And I'll tell you this and I'll let you talk. We stopped in this classic suburb of Colorado to rent a house before we were trying to figure out where we wanted to live down here, moving out of the mountains. Classic suburb, the entire neighborhood. I can't even tell you. It was lined with cars.
00:29:21
Speaker
We're talking every house has a three-car garage, every house, but the in all the street, cars, it was amazing. Cars in the driveway. They can't invent their cars in the garages because they had so many.
00:29:32
Speaker
Nobody parked in the garage, right? Because the garage was filled with what Matt? Say it, say it. Yeah, buddy. And so it was just very interesting, interesting environment to me. and And I remember the neighbor that, you know, obviously we were a renter and they probably looked at us as suspicious, but never said hi. Tried to say hi to him several times, but just jumped in his truck, looking miserable, driving off to wherever he drove to, whatever job he had. It just was a,
00:30:01
Speaker
This was an appealing environment. And, um you know, maybe I'm weirdo Lance that prefers a nice landscape a place to walk. And I think that's happening all over the country, all over the country. And I think you're going to, I think a logical place for you to go would be to say, well, but people like that. Yeah, man. People like my parents are people that like space, the space of the suburbs, people on top of each other. And I was like, they were probably,
00:30:27
Speaker
later generation but that earlier generation like 40s or 50s the whole thing was like there's people on top of each other down here in the city and we can get out there and have a little space but it never stopped like a little space became a lot of space and then it became more space and then it became now it's like space inside so you have these like like you're saying what'd you say KB homes or whatever.
Family Dynamics and Consumer Culture
00:30:49
Speaker
He's actually giant how there's like a lot of houses that are way bigger. My parents like we talked about that are right on top of each other. So the space becomes like this luxury inside space. Yeah, of which is almost more stressful in a way of like living in one of those things. But
00:31:05
Speaker
And the fixation on decks, decks and porches and just how elaborate they're getting. And I very rarely see people out enjoying them. And that's of course a judgment, but ah they get so insane. And ah these trends, they're just laughable. And it's just, it's just the insane consumption. And I think it's sad and hilarious. I think a lot of that's because you can, like you get that guy in your example, he got qualified for a loan on on a Porsche. So because he can,
00:31:33
Speaker
I qualified, so I'm gonna do it. I can have a sweet deck, so I would have a piece of shit, but it all comes at a cost. But some people, like I also wonder what you think about, as you, I don't know what we talked about, my one of my brothers has a giant house, but it's down there, Wash Park. The neighborhood's awesome, the park is awesome. It's like, actually his life is a little bit ah what your example is, but it's also like he can do it.
00:32:01
Speaker
You know, it's not the bad part of your example, but kind of like, all right, they like to, my they like, they have a place in Vail, they like to ski in Vail. Sure. They like to get out of the city with their kids on the weekends, kind of gets them out of that like social scene, the pressure of high school and they get out there and they're like in another environment and they're doing something athletic. But of course they are doing it like the most expensive resort in the world and enjoying it. And they have a big house in Wash Park and like,
00:32:29
Speaker
their kids go to a private school and they they are like pushing the envelope on expenditures, but they both work. They both work pretty hard. They both have like real high level professional jobs. And so I kind of wonder like what's the, you know, for people that can do it, it's like, why would you not do it?
00:32:47
Speaker
I don't know what the answer is, but they're a little bit like, well, you know, they would justify with like, well, this is how we're choosing to spend our money. And maybe I, you know, I'm sure my maybe they go, Oh, I wish I wish I had to work less or something like that. I don't know. Some people can do it.
00:33:01
Speaker
Yeah, they can do it, and I think I have less of a problem with them, although I would struggle with figuring out where is the line between excess and being conscious of what sustainable is for both society and the planet. And so I just, I personally wouldn't agree with that lifestyle at the level. They're they're leading, but I certainly wouldn't get up in his face or anything and and tell him he's ruining the planet because he he can,
00:33:28
Speaker
They can afford it. And ah what's sad to me, though, is people striving to replicate that or or mimic that lifestyle that are putting themselves in and tough spots mentally do it and physically. that That's a thing we have to stop. But the culture to me in the country, the culture around capitalism starts to starts to get a little bit disgusting. And I bet you know your brother could admit to some of that.
00:33:54
Speaker
And I'm sure they enjoy all the things that they do, and that's that's completely great. We should all be able to express ourselves with our money, because it's a value statement. But you know there there isn't a clear line, and I think it's a strange thing. Like culturally, we don't really know. We seem to value them more, get more over everything. I just i just think it's, for me,
00:34:23
Speaker
Because even even that, like where they live is kind of like a city center place. Everything's a little closer. Environmentally, it's probably good. like Everything's close to them. They're not they're not like grinding it out on a two-hour commute or anything like that. But the the real question is like the just, can you handle the amount of debt that you're creating for yourself and is it worth it? it's like That's kind of the question for me. right it's like And the other thing for me, like i don't the suburbs is just,
00:34:52
Speaker
It's become so boring. Like the an American suburb is just boring. All the crowd, don like I said, some people like to live in that house. I get it. When I go visit my parents, I'm like, oh, this is nice. It's like a bunch of walking paths and all sorts of shit like that. And like, you know, I get it. I just, for me, it's like kind of boring. Like I kind of like, I don't know if I went back to the US now if I'd still feel this way, but I always liked the edge of being in a city, in a ghetto. We lived in like and a ghetto in St. Louis.
00:35:20
Speaker
like a ah gentrifying yeah neighborhood and transition that wasn't really going through the process very fast. We had like working hookers on our street. I'd go to work, the guys on front porch drinking 40s. And I thought it was great. Not the hookers, they fucking sucked. They were bad in bed. They sucked, yeah. No, they just, there's so much, you wouldn't believe the amount of fucking drama that comes with crackhead hookers and fighting and fucking screaming. and I think i I would believe it actually, I would. It's not like a movie like Julia Roberts turning tricks and happy, happy group of girls just just out there making it. It's not good. and And super unrealistic because you see Julia Roberts, especially at that age, some dude is sweeping her off of that street and sugar daddy in that ass for, I mean, she's not experiencing that very long. bit
00:36:14
Speaker
Come on, come on, pretty woman. You robbed us all of reality. But yeah, it's, it's, I mean, the the the other side of it though, is some of the problems you get with that. Like you just see some shit in the hood. It's also, it's not even like all the minorities those big, but you get some of the real fucking,
00:36:29
Speaker
weird white people that are still living there and you're like, Jesus Christ. Like the two hookers were these white girls. And, but you get all the bullshit of like, you're like someone's dogs chained up in the fucking alley and you're just like, Jesus Christ. You know, you get all that shit. And so I just think that people are, people are really, really hell bent on getting away from all that. And they think it's like they're giving their family a comfortable life out there. And, uh,
00:36:58
Speaker
Yeah, totally. And I can understand, but not all all this city is like that. And there's also small towns and different rural areas that one could choose to live in. I think it's less about, to some extent, we don't even have a choice anymore. I mean, we've developed real estate in that single family home fashion all across this country. And so you know if you want to have a house, and you know which is the primary way that people build wealth in our country,
00:37:24
Speaker
ah You're gonna have to choose and for the most part a suburban area what I would like to see this is a preference is a that we consider the environment in our choices and that be we question our Preferences because I don't know that a lot of people go. Hey, do I want this? Do I want this do I want a foosball table in my basement? I because it's, I think my teenagers want to play games down here. I hope that they do. I just think some of those things, we just step back and go, do I want to maintain this house? Or am I more of a, I don't know, condo guy or townhome person that should be closer to the city? I just don't think we do enough of that. You guys have a yard. We do now. Yeah, we do now. I don't, I don't like, I hate having a yard.
Rethinking Cultural and Financial Values
00:38:11
Speaker
No, I was saying when your kids were younger, you were like outside playing in the yard with the kids. They're like, you always take them to the park close by or just no play time, zero play time. Cause that was capital, capitalism at its worst playing with children. We didn't have a yard in a townhome I grew up in, but. No, no, I'm saying with you, with your kids. I mean, the other idea, the answer to a lot of this is like, people are like, well, I want space to play and to fuck around like kids. And I want them to be able to play. Oh yeah. It's bullshit.
00:38:38
Speaker
I think that's bullshit. I think it's bullshit because bullshit. I mean, you don't need your own backyard to go enjoy time with your kids, man. I mean, you don't. Like all that does, it's like a convenience factor. I mean, you go to the skate park with your kids. I think it's a great thing.
00:38:55
Speaker
um There are other options, there are other, there are parks, like most communities have parks, I guess if they don't, maybe you need to do that. But like this idea that you're filling your backyard with what turns out to be some um amusement park level of stuff, it's like proliferated all across the country. And like I make fun of the trampoline and- Trampoline's like minimalist now, you got the sports court, the sports court with, yeah.
00:39:22
Speaker
Yeah, do you need that for your kids to play? Yeah. So what happens, right? Is the kids see that in other houses and they're like, why don't we have that? And parents buckle that pressure or they desire it themselves just to just to show off or or have status. So it's a tricky thing. But I think the answer to a lot, like a lot of people are like, I'm i'm in the suburbs. I mean, it even happened with us because ah my wife moved into like a condominium and now the kids will go outside and play. Whereas before it was like, can't go outside. So people like want,
00:39:51
Speaker
The suburbs, they feel like their kids can go outside and ride bikes and do all that shit. And then they can park it in the garage. Wait, they can't. There's too much shit in there. So they have to leave their bikes outside before they enter their 7000 square foot home. But there's a bit of like a family dichotomy that people are looking for out there.
00:40:09
Speaker
is like why think that would be the reason most people, just the basic level, why do people live out there? That's why. Now all the other shit you're talking, it sounds like you don't care about, what you really care about is just excessive consumerism and debt is you think is crippling our society and then people are suffering because of it. I do. and they think They think they're like improving their lives, they're actually making it worse. I do, yeah. Exactly. You're exactly right.
00:40:34
Speaker
And i the things that folks, including myself, have been attached to or get attached to with respect to lifestyle, there's there isn't a lot of logic in terms of if you step back and say, well, what are my values? I see people invest in things that they simply don't use. So if you're attached to having a guest bedroom and for for for your friends and family, and you're not somebody that hosts people,
00:41:04
Speaker
it's It's a silly thing to me. Gotta fill it up too. You gotta to fill it up and and it's just a thing that everybody has and you see all a lot of useless rooms. I don't wanna rail on every aspect of it because it's getting tired, but we end up doing all these things that truly don't make sense for our values because the culture makes it easy. It's like I keep using the term frictionless, but it is our society. It's frictionless to buy as much as you possibly can afford based on the income you make.
00:41:34
Speaker
And that gets everybody everybody in trouble. and And we're starting to look like a sad society now. And I think there's more commentary around this. You see the increased rising levels of depression, anxiety, just more, comment it's just, there's more commentary and it's not working. It's not working. I feel anybody.
00:41:52
Speaker
I just, I don't know how to fix it, but really, if you, i like everything is all tied into it too, just inflation pressure, and university prices. like If there was less access to money, which is basically the staple of our economy, what it was built on, the access to money, the access to debt. If you didn't have that, everything would probably be regulated, but also it would be a stagnant economy, like we talked about. like If there was no debt, it was ah really hard to get debt,
00:42:21
Speaker
you know, prices would stabilize, but then less people would be in the market to buy shit. But I think there's a, there's a limit. Everyone wants to have a house. I think I mean, everyone, we all act like that's the be all end all for, for wealth creation. And like, if you're renting, you're fucking pissing money away. It's it's a myth. and And by the way, I mean, we have an atrocious savings rate to many countries in the rest of the world, many developed countries, atrocious. So we don't need to function. We don't need to have,
00:42:51
Speaker
this overdoing it from a debt perspective on an individual level. We don't need to be that way to have a healthy economy. We also don't need to prefer useless consumer stuff to have a healthy economy. You should have seen when I first started coming to Costa Rica, the idea for everyone's dream was like get a stable job and sit there and do nothing until your house is paid off. That that was it.
00:43:16
Speaker
No, don't take on a debt and pay off your house and like like mortgages here were the most were like 15 years, 15 year mortgages, pay it off as fast as you can and then like, and then start to maybe then you take a cold trip or then you you know, I think that was probably good. But it was ah definitely like a more boring conservative approach to like, life. You know, yeah, it was like, oh, you're going to Europe really? Or what? Now we can't go.
00:43:45
Speaker
It's like we're we're paying off our house, we're gonna sit here and have our kids pay off our house. And I mean, there's something to be said for that, because in your later years, probably you're a little more at peace because you did the dirty work early. But there's like the other side is like life experience that we value so much now that we're like, if you're not you're not going to Europe, dude,
00:44:05
Speaker
You're missing out on life experience, right? Like shit like that. Yeah, so yeah I think we the pendulum swung too far. This will be my closing thought. It just swung too far to rack up as much experience and just rack up as much experience and lifestyle comfort as you possibly can.
00:44:28
Speaker
And what has happened as a result of that is you've forgotten the actual true cost of doing that. is There is a level of suffocation and feeling trapped that happens when you go too far with that kind of lifestyle where you know you can have a ah nice humble life that's calm and you'll maybe you look forward to an occasional vacation and not have all that stress. That's that's an option for you. You don't have to do it, man, but it is an option. I think the pendulum's swung too far.
00:44:58
Speaker
Pen jump swung too far. And we're paying the toll for it. So what's the recommendation? Like, do you do you get in the weeds with like, oh, debt to debt to whatever savings ratios and shit like that? Or like, what do you think people should do? It's like, not everyone's just kind of like, all right, we're moving back to the city and an apartment. Because Lance said that's the way to live. But like, where do you like, I think where you guys found kind of sweet spot, that's kind of what I'm saying about my brother, maybe the financial picture is a little different. But like,
00:45:27
Speaker
He's actually, whatever access, he's also doing it more like a community. Like you said, there's like kind of cool places coast by to go. Not everything is like got to drive 10 miles to do everything. Yeah. I mean, I lived in that area. That's a nice area.
00:45:41
Speaker
yeah It's kind of like, what's the mix, you know what's you know? There are so many people that are like, no, I love driving my car. Oh, yeah, I know. I know. had's say I'd like to see people shift those preferences, but like that's just paternalism. And um obviously, a lot of these diatribes and things I'm doing are a version of paternalism. But like I guess my recommendation would be to question how much you really value convenience and how much you really value the lifestyle you're leading, especially if it's, if if it's resulting in a life that you can't manage and doesn't like I value freedom over everything, the freedom to make different choices. And like, if you're stuck,
00:46:26
Speaker
in some things that you don't wanna be in and it's too much for you, I would bet in our country at least that a lot of it has to do with um your financial choices because you're gonna have to play the game regardless. The financial game you can win or lose, it's completely up to you. anyway There are some system issues. I mean, our healthcare care system is a mess for people in this country. There are some structural issues like you are forced to drive fucking insane highways to go to work sometimes and the burbs are already there and you may have to live there, but like you can make choices within that to keep you financially firm and and maybe lessen some of that stress. So I guess that's all I would say, make choices. But for me personally, I want to double down on a smaller space, more urban environment, especially as my kid graduates high school and less driving and just kind of live out a little bit more of what I think will be community-based
00:47:24
Speaker
joining book clubs and shit. Less environmental footprint stuff. Yeah. Like walking to the theater. Fuck yeah, bro. ye Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. man and I I don't see it stopping, but I do i do think though, there's always this kind of moving out and moving back in and you do, art you hear, you know, people go through their own processes, but like, there's a lot of people are like, this sucks. Let's go back to the That happens a lot. yeah And then you go, oh shit, now I'm in the city and all the kids are going to go to some school that doesn't have a great math scores. or so So then you then they then you go, all right, going back to save, if we got to go to private school. like yeah Then you have those questions. but I'm just going to say, Matt, the kids in this neighborhood, they're a little too rough and tumble, if you know what I mean. So we want to get our kids out.
00:48:20
Speaker
black and brown. What are you saying lady? fucking Are you saying that they're minorities? Are you saying they're rough? You white bitch. Yeah, I don't know, man. The the US is interesting. like but People like it and then people mimic it. and and i just I think that there'll be a return to character, so to speak, eventually, where people will be like,
00:48:45
Speaker
Which is kind of crazy, dude, because when that happens, like these things come and go. I mean, even even the excessive back to the city is crazy. Like the Denver skyline is like fucking loft. I know. Luxury apartment fest like that. What's that called? The Glass House? right The Valley. and there There's a place like in northwest Denver, but near the Platte. It wasn't there. I don't know. It's like Platte Valley. Oh, Rhino? Rhino or River Point? Yeah. that would That didn't exist. Yeah. like But then even that gets out of control.
00:49:13
Speaker
And then you're, but if that happens, like a real exodus of the suburbs, you're gonna have these like sprawling, just deteriorating, you know, those homes you were talking about, those track homes, it's just gonna look like, it's just shitty. I think you can find people to fill them and I think you can make duplexes out of them and otherwise.
00:49:29
Speaker
convert them, but like the problem with the city for me or or parts of the city, or I love the idea of people scooting around in the little scooters in their bikes and all this stuff, but there's so much concrete still there in the city where that's tried to support cars or car driving behavior.
00:49:48
Speaker
There's just not enough green space. There's not enough parks. There's just not enough breathing room. It doesn't have to be something I own. There definitely has to be something where we can all access just too much concrete. And and until the city changes that, like, I don't know, that's my destination for me. It's like more of like a small town. Salida, Colorado is a good example of a semi-urban little small town that you can just cruise around in.
00:50:14
Speaker
walking walking spaces and bike paths and stuff like that. So poor Jenna and Ryan, I mean, I hope that people listening aren't falling in their footsteps, but... I hope they get solar panels, dude. And that's the start of them fucking again. Get solar panels? Yeah. Clean energy is what they need. And Jenna stops fantasizing about the... What is it? Coco extract salesman?
00:50:42
Speaker
that's a and then what's his name scott What's the guy's name? Ryan. Ryan's got real problems. You're basically saying he's some sort of wannabe pedophile. No, I mean, they're all above old over 18. I should have mentioned that, yeah. Not that this is direction. I want to take this. We're trying to wrap up, but is this is this what 18-year-old high school girls are are are making money on OnlyFans in the US. Is this a thing? I have no idea. I would imagine though, because a lot of people have heard that site is quadrupled, rapidly thriving. So much people go on there. It's not necessarily that they show their full body. They might just do, I mean, swimsuits or something like that. But like, yeah, charge charge it. Like, I think they get to choose what fee they charge. I've never been on there. I might have to check it out. he should Do what Ryan's doing.
00:51:32
Speaker
ah Yeah, because I don't know is the is the appeal like you interact with the people or are you just basically paying for like pictures? It could be anything I think. It could be anything. It could be like live screen sex. I'm sure it could be anything. I guess it creates an economy that's more healthy for a sex worker in terms of they can like create their own product.
00:51:55
Speaker
and take all the money. Control over the the content. Control their content, control
Sex Work and Societal Attitudes
00:51:59
Speaker
their money. I mean, they don't if you don't want to do what Nikki Glaser likes, which is gangbang stuff, you don't have to. But if you like it, you're picking the cast, you're you're making a high percentage of the money, and you're getting a piece. Just remember to douche. Follow the healthy sex worker practices.