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The anti anti anti Expert
55 Plays2 months ago
What's wrong with MF's opinion of experts?
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Transcript
The Rise of the 'Warrior' Identity in Politics
00:00:13
Speaker
What's up Christian warrior? Christian warrior dog. that's a new Is that a new political term? Taking hold? There's a trend, I think, on the right, mostly of adding warrior to whatever it is you're into. MAGA warrior. Trump warrior. Right?
00:00:30
Speaker
Patriotic warrior. yeah Yeah, Stuff like that. Oh, boy. What are you guys doing up there, huh? What are you doing up there?
Climbing Facilities and Private Equity
00:00:37
Speaker
up there in the u.s dude i uh warrior we've been just thinking of of get when you get out of that thing i've met i said like a hundred times but we my son and i've been going to like this climbing wall place it's like made out of plywood and all this shit and then i googled like colorado climbing walls there's like Fucking 15. I probably didn't even get the end of the list. And they all the they're like the Taj Mahal of climbing.
00:01:01
Speaker
And like they're all... There's competitions. There's community. There's workouts. It's like, come on, gringos. Yeah, I'm sure fucking private equity is in climbing walls now.
00:01:12
Speaker
yeah It's like buying up all the... rec centers and or uh manufacturers of these walls it's so you can sound bitter about that though do you you think that's good or bad i mean these places look awesome i will tell you that you're like although we're having probably as much fun on this piece of shit that we we go to here I don't think that it is nice because
Skepticism Towards Private Equity
00:01:34
Speaker
of private equity. And I'm speculating, of course. I just think private equity is... Horseshit. Horseshit is exactly right.
00:01:41
Speaker
Complete extraction and opportunistic. A lot of these structured deals that these fucking firms do, they don't even need to turn the business into and make it profitable for them to collect their heavy fees and and be successful.
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah. So that's that's a weird extraction type business model that I'm not a big fan of
The Anti-Expert Movement
00:02:01
Speaker
fella. But we don't need to talk about that because I did want to get into the anti expert movement that's been going on now for 10 years since the arrival of you know who.
00:02:12
Speaker
I can tie climbing wall into it. Yeah, do it right now. Well, i would I guess I'll ask you. when you So like we're just embarking on this climbing wall journey. It all started at a rec center in Colorado. Had this amazing climbing wall, which was like, i don't know, three bucks a day or something like ah The rec center situation in the US is pretty solid, as I mentioned. But ah but now here we are, learning how to climb. And so you you have you pretty quickly have access to like whatever you want, expert-wise, on online. Yeah.
00:02:43
Speaker
And I will say, i believe, i mean, I do, that's the one area of the internet where, well, besides being able to communicate like we are right now, where i'm like, that's kind of cool. I just got, well, I got into surfing. I can like watch a billion videos about how to do it, which which maybe is at the detriment of people that make money off of giving lessons and stuff like that. But I don't think so.
00:03:04
Speaker
But I believe everything expert wise. Like i'm i I believe, like anybody could tell me anything. And I i believe it. It's been that way my whole life. Very naive. Is that true though? Or is that an embellishment for the entertainment of POS?
00:03:18
Speaker
I would say I'm on the naive side. And some of it's positive where I'll be, I'll be like, I think you could go the NBA, whatever as a 5'10 white guy. ah in fact ah I would say, yeah. i mean mean, what am I skeptical about? You're probably more, I don't know. You're probably skeptical. You're probably a skeptic, but maybe, maybe it ah it depends if it aligns with your belief system.
00:03:42
Speaker
No, I mean, i don't think I'm a skeptic. I think you're more skeptical. I'm s skeptical about kind of like the system, bro. System. Yeah, it's ah it's a forced contrarianism to sound cool.
Media's Role in Misinformation
00:03:53
Speaker
the thing you do i'm trying to sound cool yeah that's been a yeah and i probably a psychologist would would uh would tie that back to my lack of popularity in middle school in my first two years at eagle crest and i'm still trying to overcome that to seek popular popularity because i didn't have your looks bro and i wasn't bringing mad dog on the bus and fucking seventh grade whatever you're doing that's true i was getting mad puss back then ah No, dude, i I think that the structure of our entertainment, social media, and our news now, it there's no incentive for analysis or of any kind of learning for for most people. It's like too hard to to handle gray area. And when you really look at expertise in any subject, very few things are certain. So most of it's gray area type of analysis.
00:04:49
Speaker
Hot take alert, hot take alert.
Distrust in Traditional Institutions
00:04:52
Speaker
If you go to Psychology Today and they preface their their latest research, it's all littered with may lead to.
00:05:00
Speaker
This is the data showing that this could possibly be a proper or an appropriate intervention. You see that with food too. Yeah, most of science does that. Most of social science does that.
00:05:13
Speaker
Hot take alert, hot take alert. We don't trust those folks because they're wrong sometimes because they're dealing with probabilities. And I think what I'm pissed off about is like it's too hard for our dumb citizenry, our dumb populace to get on board with essentially the scientific method. And it's easier for them to just believe the most absurd stuff or it's more entertaining. I'm not sure what the draw is.
00:05:40
Speaker
Does the source matter, though? when you write something like it could be It could actually be a factual thing, but the source is from something that you just don't trust, so you write it off before you even give it a chance? I mean, maybe, but I don't i think that now the the sources of distrust are anything that is backed by a longstanding institution, university or educational system that has done work in this thing and in whatever subject for years. That's what people are railing against.
00:06:08
Speaker
I don't know, they're they're more seduced by a Tucker Carlson saying this is how things work than they are like an army of PhDs who've studied this their whole life.
Conspiracy Theories and Sensationalism
00:06:18
Speaker
I think we're just dumb as fuck now.
00:06:20
Speaker
We're just dumb as fuck. So I think that was a yes. you like i don't i know I don't pay attention your questions. I don't fucking know what you're asking. Well, the source in that example was tuwell Tucker Carlson, and you would write off most things coming out of his mouth or on his show, right? Just by a lack of trust for it?
00:06:37
Speaker
Unless he sourced it. You want to see your sources. The thing about journalism, too, that the dumb dumbs don't get like not not entertainment journalism or talking head bullshit is, you know, they have to source things.
00:06:50
Speaker
They have to validate. Doesn't mean they don't get it wrong sometimes, but they that's part of the process. But it's that does not seem now that the thing is, you know, I mean, you can put a lot of information out there, get to a lot of people without sourcing it.
00:07:04
Speaker
Well, that's the only way to get to a lot of people now is to embellish and present really over the top arguments. so Some of the conspiracy theorists out there right now on the right and even some on the left, they they have the world's ear or their eyes rather on YouTube. I mean, the bulk of people are not watching CNN, dude.
00:07:25
Speaker
But don't you feel that's that's a direct sort of rebellion? Exactly what you're kind of in line
Journalistic Integrity vs. Partisan Media
00:07:30
Speaker
with? were Like it's rebelling against these other outlets that that seem to be cooking the yeah cooking the numbers a little bit like for for their own benefit, right?
00:07:39
Speaker
No, because I believe that those most of those firms, those media firms, have some journalistic integrity. like like Like who? you're saying Like New York Times, you say most, or some someone like that, maybe.
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah, new york times New York Times is not overtly batshit left like they might be characterized from people on the right. Right. Well, is there an equivalent maybe right that's that you could trust, but not but it's it doesn't lean maybe your...
00:08:08
Speaker
Yeah, the the editorial side of the Wall Street Journal, for example. they're there They have a sensibility it leans right, but they're not there's nothing in there that's like Fox News level talking head bullshit.
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny, too, what you just said earlier. Like, it's like, what if it if it seems real, you're like, it's like, it must be boring. You're like, oh, this isn't sensationalized. Boring. that's that's ah But you're talking about politics a lot, too, right?
00:08:34
Speaker
Not necessarily. I mean, we we have ah a huge gap in the country in who believes in climate change. And I would think a guy like you who said, you know, I'll believe
Health Advice and Online Skepticism
00:08:43
Speaker
a lot of stuff. There are, out of, I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of scientists who believe in climate change, there are about 40 that don't.
00:08:51
Speaker
And they, with their intellect and their intelligence and their ability to write, can come out with an argument that seems logical. And if you already didn't want to believe in that, or you already wanted to be skeptical, you can you can adopt that.
00:09:04
Speaker
And it's a very popular view now that climate change doesn't exist. Yeah. I just like, i' I guess I'm saying if I, if I heard like, ah like I mentioned Lex Freeman's podcast and someone was on there and being billed as an expert, it could be, you know, he does it his last shows about, i'm I'm actually every night I've been falling asleep watching one about the Roman empire.
00:09:24
Speaker
And there's zero like I'm like, this guy's an expert. I take it as fact. like like or Or if I see something online, so like you've you've made fun of me, you've ripped me apart, but like if someone says like eating ginger and lemon juice is good for your cardiovascular system, I'll probably believe it and try it.
00:09:44
Speaker
But if you if you really get deep in the weeds online, there's so many people telling you like shit that you should eat or not eat and and like contradicting each other and stuff. So you probably should do more research than what I'm doing, but I'll just take it as like, ah, I should probably do that if if I think it makes sense. Like if someone starts going to eat three, which is, there's a lot of people now that are like, eat more butter, eat more animal fat, all this shit is becoming like a trend.
00:10:07
Speaker
And they have very convincing arguments. Some of them are either like, they're they're more like mainstream doctors in their past lives. And they're like, this all this anti-meat, anti-dairy is bullshit.
00:10:19
Speaker
And but I don't know, like people can make very convincing arguments and I'm susceptible to it. Yeah, I think though, if you look just a couple of points on that, if you look into sort
Corporate Health Claims' Credibility
00:10:28
Speaker
of the FDA, they allow supplements to make wild claims as long as they put on there, the FDA has not have validated these claims. And pharmaceuticals do not get that kind of luxury. They actually have to do the double blind medical trials to confirm that they actually work or they work as intended. Supplements, those people can say almost anything.
00:10:48
Speaker
I just don't think for most people they're worth diving into without a medical professional. understanding if someone's somewhere going you should eat ground up turmeric with with ginger and the i mean they're not necessarily sell like i guess what they're selling is maybe content right but i'm like what do they have to gain i mean it has to align a little bit of what i think about eating eating natural foods and shit like that but Yeah, but they're building a wellness brand online and and they're they're an influencer and and sure enough, they are selling things underneath that. But it's it's more of somebody that does have blood pressure issues that doesn't like the side effects of the legit blood pressure pressure medication and um to the detriment of their safety and health goes for some sort of food supplement that wild claims are made about.
00:11:37
Speaker
And I know some Christian warriors that follow that that whole plan. So they in in the end, they're they're going to die. yes Yes, they're going to die. die die My skepticism would be like, if a if a mate like i don't know i have a like ah if a major brand is touting that their cereal or something is fortified with somep some crap, i immediately am like, this is I don't trust it at all.
00:12:04
Speaker
Which would be, yeah. but But it goes as far as like, all right, who's in bed with who? Like, do you trust WebMD? Like, if you look at, if I'm if you're trying to get if i'm trying to get more information on on a turmeric shake, some pussy bullshit, but I'm like, oh, that seems good for a natural way to help to like be healthy. And then, web but but the thing about WebMD or some of those sites that might be more professional is they will say not enough...
00:12:30
Speaker
research or not they'll they'll tag everything with not enough studies have been done on this or and talk to your doctor before making any big decisions that's enough for you That's a real scientist or or scientific perspective because that's how the world works. Whenever I see a corporate study, like you said earlier, no fucking way. I'm not yeah i'm not taking Coca-Cola's research on the effects of sugar on kids under 10. I had ah my one of my comedian friends, John Evans. I don't remember the joke, but he had joke about a commercial like a mattress company commercial, the guy saying, like you'll sleep better if you sleep on these mattresses.
00:13:06
Speaker
It was like, oh, really? Isn't that convenient? You're selling mattresses and you're good you're telling me that I'm going to sleep better. It's like eating so like a sausage vendor saying that eating sausage is good for your heart or something. But yeah, I'm just
Navigating Information Overload
00:13:21
Speaker
tired. I guess mostly I'm tired with the low capacity.
00:13:25
Speaker
Even my friends and family and this and society has for sifting through the gray area. I fucking live in the gray area, bro. Humans have never had access to so much information so it's also like I'd say Although it feels like we've been had access to information now For 20, 30 years In this abundance We're still in the infancy stages of it And so Like you never had to worry about any this crap because you wouldn't like, how would you even know?
00:13:54
Speaker
i mean, that's the whole basis of the show. We are pieces of shit because we're talking about stuff we largely don't know much about. um But, but I do have a ah curiosity to dig a little deeper on things before I spout off. And it I don't know, man, I think the society going to deteriorate rapidly with ah more people having financial benefit from being insane and over the top and, do yeah But do you think it's worse? Because I mean, the ah the counter argument is like people can do their own research. so and So there probably are some experts out there that maybe aren't going along the path that you say, but they they are experts and they're they're doing this the turmeric thing. There's probably people out there that are are doing some some validation of it or or they're probably right. Like maybe it's not a be all end all for your for your cardiovascular issues, but it helps, right?
00:14:41
Speaker
Nobody can do their own research. like ah they can go and read somebody's research yeah but you're doing yours you're doing it every day aren't you like are you ever like oh i feel better when i eat this that's research maybe that's an n of one i mean it's not certainly not validated research but i mean generally you can go seek information from talking head pundits or actually validated researchers Broccoli fucks you up?
Health Beliefs and Personal Experience
00:15:05
Speaker
Digestive or something? Something green fucks you up? that You're like, are you going to go be like, that can't be right. I'm going to big broccoli. I'm i'm going to see if WebMD thinks broccoli is bad. You're like, nope, I can't eat that.
00:15:16
Speaker
That's your own research is what I'm saying. You have your own personal experience, yes. Yes, of course you do. But that's not... what everybody opines on. They opine on everything under the sun. they They're fucking railing on everything with very little knowledge about it. And then they're determined to be anti-expert. So whether it be vaccines cause autism or why is autism diagnosis up so much more? I mean, there's a real research on why that's the case.
Vaccine Misconceptions and Media Sensationalism
00:15:50
Speaker
And there isn't a strong argument on the other side. This is, yeah, this is might be where we so differ. Like, so if I hear that argument, I would immediately be like, that's probably true.
00:15:59
Speaker
You hear that vaccines cause autism? Yeah, vaccines and sort of all these modern things could be tied to ah problems. Like, it it seems like there's a reason why there's a reason why shit's happening. You know, there's more cases of all this random shit. There must be a reason. So I'm like, well, that could be a reason. I don't know if it's vaccines or I would like process food and all that shit that you hear about. I I'm i'm like, ah I'm on board. Anybody says anything about processed food kind of shitting on it. I'm like, I believe it without much like research, uh,
00:16:31
Speaker
like the the The problem I have, though, with those arguments is probably what you have, too. like you could You throw out a blanket statement and go this causes autism. It's almost not impossible to prove. And you should throw out... like How do you throw out a statement that says, because of these vaccines, we've... like If you have, ah I don't know, tuberculosis... What the vaccines you get now? like Measles, mumps, tuberculosis, or whatever. There's probably a correlation that all that stuff is...
00:16:56
Speaker
is at zero percent compared to where it was a hundred years ago or something before the vaccine was embedded right it's undeniable medical evidence yes um i get someone's compulsion to explain the rise in autism, that they're looking for an answer.
00:17:16
Speaker
But in terms of before the internet, I don't think you get to this fever pitch of skepticism around um vaccines and whether they cause other diseases. The the reality is that they changed the diagnostic um criteria for autism to include Asperger's and other lower level versions of spectrum disorder.
00:17:36
Speaker
which drove the diagnosis for autism as a whole up dramatically. That's the primary reason. It's not something in the environment. It's not vaccines. But we're in a era of who cares about the truth. It's just what sells and what resonates. So I don't know how to overcome that. And in fact, the most scientific and thoughtful answers answers are ah also often the most gray and boring. And when they're gray, I think is when people go, ah,
00:18:06
Speaker
See, they don't know anything. Everything's fucking gray, too, in reality. There's nothing 100% true or everything's gray. So in the COVID era, when they'd come out with, you know, you don't need masks and the information changed and different things were changing as you you went through and learned more about the disease, people could not handle that.
00:18:28
Speaker
And so institutions and experts just all became pieces of crap. Mm-hmm. That's I'm tired of that. I'm hoping that that kind of turns around. I don't know that it will though. Well, you just look at where pundits like Megyn Kelly have gone, who used to be somewhat reputable, has gone to just the shit end of conspiracy theorist nonsense because it sells. I mean, I'm sure her fan base is through the roof.
00:18:54
Speaker
It's tiring. Now we're talking about eating more butter. Yeah. Which is awesome, by the way. Yeah. If that's true. It's going to do a lot of people wrong. But whatever. Fuck them, fat asses.
00:19:07
Speaker
If that's true. I do think... but the the and might you want to hear my theory, Lance? Yeah, i do. So any of these... any of these ideas whether it's like any of these diets related to okay eat more butter and meat or eat more green less plant-based diet the base of it is is all like you're eating
Diet, Lifestyle, and Health Implications
00:19:28
Speaker
generally like more natural foods and processed foods and therefore it's probably better for you in the in the long run like if someone's like eat more grass-fed beef you're probably better off than eating that than fucking lunchables or some shit or same if you go like you're eating more spinach and shit so i think
00:19:45
Speaker
i try I think there's probably some like, you know, there's like a base for everything that you can probably lean on and go, all right, I can kind of and I can get in the weeds and interpret what we actually should be doing, which should be the same way it works for politics, right? There's probably some core core beliefs that everyone could probably agree on.
00:20:02
Speaker
So was that amazing dude? The way I thought the way I tied that together? It was very hot. It was a hot take. No, I hear you. I think processed foods, sometimes I'll have to second guess myself. Like I have an an innate disdain for high sugar, high processed food.
00:20:20
Speaker
Like I just like immediately don't like it, but is the act of processing it and inherently like cancerous and bad for us? is genetic modification and inherently bad for us? I mean, the science is, it's gray. It's gray. It's gray. It's gray. It's gray. Yeah. I wonder about that. Like I look at, you know, you look at your grandparents or people in your lives and you're like, well, they live with all that shit and they live till X. Like it was, is it really all that bad or whatever?
00:20:47
Speaker
ah I don't know. But I mean, my my thing is like, I feel better. Like when I'm down here, I'm eating pretty pretty good, pretty pure, pretty basic just for whatever. It's easy. buy um um ah you know I'm a man living by myself. And then i ah and it's more affordable. So I eat like natural shit all the time. I i think my my litmus test is that i I feel good. And then when I go to St. Louis, a lot of times, i'm either if i'm especially if I'm staying in a hotel, and running around a lot and eating more restaurant food.
00:21:18
Speaker
And I generally feel a little shittier. Sure. So I'm eating like more processed food. So I just like, I'm like, all right. I mean, not, but I don't feel it. It's, and the other thing is it's fucking yummy. It's nice to just go up to the U S and gorge yourself on shit. Like Qdoba.
00:21:32
Speaker
shes Tasty. You're like, that's it's good. Yeah. But, uh, but then I feel like fucking, shit for like a half hour but i even that i don't i don't put all the stock in the world in that because i do believe like like if you came down here and just started eating like me you probably would feel like shit too because your body would be like what the fuck you wouldn't be used to the your your digestive system wouldn't be used to the water whatever else happens to us but um yeah but those aren't equivalent in my mind i mean why not Well, one one, the water and maybe some of the bacteria and stuff that's in Costa Rica that's not in the U.S., that's different to me than you know gorging yourself with ribs and barbecue ribs and Big Macs and shit and feeling on a little slower than you normally do.
00:22:17
Speaker
Yeah, but if you came down here and we ate like a Costa Rican diet or eating equivalent of what I eat a lot with, you know, if I eat out, I'm eating like ceviche or rice with beans and some whatever, like a salad, chicken, you that might tear you up for a few days, I'm saying.
00:22:31
Speaker
Yeah, you might have a little poopy. Yeah, I mean, I eat pretty close to that already, but. Just general discomfort. I saw you eating fucking pretzels the other day before one of our recordings. So don't give our listener.
00:22:43
Speaker
pretzels those are crazy those are crazy what but i bring that up because it's like all right pretzels are technically processed food it's like who gives a flight you can probably make pretzels with which which are fine right like if you touch food it's like processed in a way You're just like pulling plants out of the ground and just going to town on them and literally just killing animals and eating the flesh like they're in the forest.
00:23:09
Speaker
It's all a process.
Mental Health and Skepticism of Expert Advice
00:23:11
Speaker
salt Yeah, food food to me is, I don't know if it's my biggest hang up these days when it comes to experts and and not, but... what about uh since you're you're you you have family member in the business like what about how do you interpret experts and advice from like you know as far as parenting and dealing with like mental health or just overall overall good parenting and spousal and whatever whatever like good practices related to sort of therapy and advice i probably have a little more skepticism about that shit but but maybe not not too bad but anyone who would recommend like medication a mental health medication i would immediately be like what the fuck
00:23:49
Speaker
I don't know why, but what what's your how do you react to that kind of stuff? Because you you have an expert in your family, right? It is probably one of the most gray areas.
00:24:00
Speaker
If I asked your wife like this question, would she be like, no, there's fucking clear evidence that this helps this and this helps this? Or she like, yeah, it's it's a clusterfuck, but we just try to navigate the best we can?
00:24:11
Speaker
ah No, there are certain things that are very evidence-based. Like there's strong evidence to say say that cognitive behavioral therapy does benefit people and does help with behavior change. But when you think about what goes into just sort of – the overall environment of a human being's life, there's so many variables.
00:24:31
Speaker
And so whether or not to introduce a medication or which medication, those are often trial and error type. what I mean, there's some so there's definitely some medical science to know where to start, but there's a process of trial and error that's hard for people to to work through when it comes to meds specifically, but even therapy types of therapy.
00:24:52
Speaker
there's There's nothing perfect in that space. It's the same with economics. Any social science will have that that problem. Now, there's a lot to learn from those spaces and the the research and work that people are doing. I think that's what I'm saying. It's like too hard for everyday people to deal with those.
00:25:09
Speaker
Kind of decipher what's what's reality? But not not even what's reality, but to just know that this that what you're engaging in, whether it's like behavior, yeah a therapy or whatever there it's it's not a perfect science and that's too hard hard for people now um they want somebody to tell them nope this is exactly what it is i was surprised when i was surprised when dealing with my son even myself were like how quickly people are like you should medicate Like I went, I went, what the first time I went to, I think it was like we were going to marriage counseling and, and the we were, I might've talked about this um a few years ago on air, but like, it was like, and I was like tired,
00:25:50
Speaker
I was like, whatever, like kind of pissed about everything. And it was like, oh, you might be depressed. Maybe we should get you on something. And I was like, I've been there for like three minutes. It's like, oh yeah, fucking depressed. but i But I was, I had, so then I, but I was like, I would, if even if she was correct, I probably wouldn't accept it. There was no way in hell I was taking anything. In the end, I'm i'm glad that I didn't. But like, i immediately was just like, no, this isn't right.
00:26:14
Speaker
and You know, that's mental health seems weird because then you're like, well, what's what's okay. You could probably medicate yourself and probably, and probably feel better or, but it could be environmental thing. It other person's problem. could be stuff like, so I don't know. That's all hard to navigate. I think as far as like expert advice and, and how, what we're talking about today. And, uh, I lean, lean like to the,
00:26:40
Speaker
it's bullshit. sorry but but But what's your problem? What would be the problem if you had to take medication? I don't know. I just have an idea that, that it's, I don't know.
00:26:51
Speaker
I don't know. I have an idea that it's just not great for you. and it's And it'd be like training your system to like, to depend on it is what is kind of what I think. Um, and,
00:27:05
Speaker
I don't know. Maybe it's probably something that I should probably do more research on. Right. But I, but I feel like you hear, I like if, if you treating ADHD and someone recommends Adderall, I have like a negative feeling about that. And I'm like, i don't want myself, my myself or my kid on something like that. You know?
00:27:21
Speaker
it's it's yes it's ah it's hard but it's also changed the trajectory of kids who are completely out of bounds of of normalcy and gotten them back on i mean it's it's a individual decision to decide if that's where your family goes but yeah it's tough it's tough that's that's one of the more tough ones and i yeah i have a friend who's who's who he might be listening but who's kind of like yeah my brother is not on any of that shit he's he can't function like yeah no i know he can't function But um yeah,
Eloquence and Misplaced Trust
00:27:53
Speaker
so I don't know. It depends like where where I'm skeptical of expert advice.
00:27:57
Speaker
But I do listen. I think we're kind of suckers for people that can speak eloquently in a good, you know, that's a good, good thing. But like if somebody speaks, it could even be fucking tulecker Tucker Carlson or someone like that who I'm like, well, that point was well laid out and and sound and he but and he had conviction when he said it. Right. And I guess I think I'm a sucker for that. Even mental health. Like, like if someone explains it to me or vaccines and just goes, no, here's, this is, this is what it is. Like, I'm, not like I'm going to go back and cite their sources or some shit. Like, I'm just like, oh, that sounds good. But, if but that's, it could be snake oil salesmen. They sound eloquent. That doesn't mean that they're experts.
Interpreting History and Simple Explanations
00:28:35
Speaker
Right.
00:28:35
Speaker
Yeah, we all want that. We all want that. I'd say one of the more annoying things as of late is just a lack of acknowledgement of what historians do.
00:28:46
Speaker
The process that they go through, there' there's an editorial bent to history. And so, you know, two different people obviously can interpret the historical evidence differently. And and that's actually okay, but like people don't really...
00:29:02
Speaker
They don't really get, i don't know. I'm speculating that everybody's dumb, which is what I like to do, but I don't think people appreciate that as much. And so what I don't like is when everyday people latch onto some perspective and then they run with it. And it just like perpetuates amongst a family or a community and research shows historians believe and well you're fucked just the way things spread like wildfire is basically the way everything works right now like ah an idea or something will catch on it's like it's done it's in the atmosphere right yeah it's done and i don't know people don't have patience for this just sounds so whiny but just like the an intellectual process regardless of what it is invest investing parenting patients are time
00:29:50
Speaker
I don't know. I keep hearing that every nobody has time and that people don't care about what's happening because they don't have time and moms are working two jobs and all this stuff. it's our shit I mean, I think people choose what they have time to care about.
00:30:06
Speaker
I mean, some people are in desperate situations. I would think that maybe you don't latch on too hard to to things that you don't have the time to sift through the gray area a little bit. And you might lean you might end up on a perspective if you do have that time that I disagree with, but I'm fine with that.
00:30:22
Speaker
Like if you think so supply side economics works and has worked in the past, like I'm fine with that. Yeah, I could be within one second. I could be talked in the supply side economics or or or the other side of it, whatever the other side of supply side economics is. I would I would immediately like if someone's speaking eloquently about it on the Lex Friedman podcast, I'd be like, that's right.
00:30:45
Speaker
can get down with that immediately, dude. Immediately. There's no ah check coming for you to sound, if you're an expert, uncertain about something.
00:30:55
Speaker
There's no book deal coming for somebody who sifts through the gray area. No influencer makes money. Huberman does not make money by sounding like he does he lacks confidence when he's talking about.
00:31:07
Speaker
Yeah. But if you listen to other physicians, there's like... the breadth of things that that guy talks about, there's no way he is tapping that expertise. There's no way he has a deep enough understanding to be spouting off a lot of what he talks about, but that that's true for most of us. So it's fine. He's selling a product. I'm just wondering how I should interact with the world going forward as piece of shit.
00:31:30
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, there's a guy too. Like if that's a good example, if I listened to him, I'd probably, i would take that as, I would take it as fact. Um, But why would, so you wouldn't because he, there's no capacity for someone to be an expert in that much shit or because you think his agenda is, I don't even know what he sells, but like just himself, the, there's too much of an agenda there to just take, to be, to not be skeptical. is that what you're saying?
00:31:55
Speaker
He has some great things to say for sure. But I, I think that, yeah, there's a, there's definitely a bent and, and if I were going to make a ah big decision in my life, I'd definitely.
Inaction in Uncertainty
00:32:05
Speaker
Go to, go to Andrew.
00:32:07
Speaker
Well, i try to validate it with a lot of different viewpoints and see what really makes sense. Fascinatingly, I think doing nothing is often really top choice for most people. You mean that in a good way or bad way?
00:32:21
Speaker
I mean that in a good way. Don't do, don't do any more intervention. Don't make any rash decisions without, without taking your time away or like, uh, like that. Um, just saying like you have a problem in your life, you're getting anxious about it. You're hung up about it. You go seek the advice of some online guru or influencer and you immediately jump on board with that.
00:32:44
Speaker
Maybe just not do anything. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I might be airing on the side of don't do anything more than I should with everything.
00:32:54
Speaker
I think you should give it time at least for most decisions in your life. Yes.
Educating for Uncertainty
00:33:00
Speaker
But we're not trained to do that though. We should actually train our kids to manage uncertainty and manage gray area. Maybe that's what I wish I was trained to manage those things. Like I i try to solve things so quickly or adopt perspectives too quickly. Like Huberman's recommendations for weightlifting are like off the charts, like how much you should weight you should be slinging. It's like,
00:33:25
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know that that's what we all need to be doing. That stuff, i I totally, I believe in one second, dude. You know, someone will be like, well, the yeah, old people need to be lifting heavy weights to prevent osteoporosis and all this crap. And I'm like, all right, good.
Exercise and Historical Behavior
00:33:40
Speaker
well and that's where I got the sprinting thing. A physician was tying like historical behavior where when we were like tribal, like we would have to periodically sprint and our bodies were built for that. And that's like the most, I guess, validated exercise.
00:33:57
Speaker
And you were like, yeah I'm in. And ah the truth is, it's like it's a very high injury risk to it wrecks you. It does. And that's probably why it feels great, though.
00:34:10
Speaker
ah Dude, have you ever read Born to Run? Yeah, you brought that up a few times. We're going to it again. But like I took that immediately. i was i was like, all right, the barefoot running craze or or landing on your forefoot and how that's better and that all Nikes and all marketed shoes are are ruining us.
00:34:29
Speaker
I immediately took that as fact. I still do. But I was like, all right, i was I started running barefoot. I mean, it is fucking awesome running barefoot. i also had access to a beach, so that helped. But ah but in of itself, that's that's just a little stupid.
00:34:47
Speaker
It makes perfect sense though. Like when you, when do you run more like cautiously and sort of conscious of where your feet are landing and everything is when you don't have this giant false ah protective thing.
00:34:59
Speaker
What do you, do you believe that you ever had a pair of shoes and you're like, Oh, I feel better. Like you have bad knees. Do you feel, do you feel like the shoes help you like a super big cushion or something like that? Yeah, I mean, I think like Brooks and Enns fantastic running shoes, but I don't have bad knees because I have knee pain. Like from walking on the street, it's more of sports injuries. But yeah, no, I think they work.
00:35:22
Speaker
But no, I can get the appeal of running barefoot too. I just know that some people like my wife, with if she's not wearing sneakers that are adjusted in a certain way, her foot falls apart.
00:35:33
Speaker
just yeah She's flat footed. well she she's gray what you boring she She's one that came out of the factory wrongy wrong. or wrong wrong So there was a bunch of people in that book that were like, um, like anthropology experts and said that most, like for a lot, most of the history of mankind, we hunted by basically exhausting our animals because humans, their, their lung and their breathing, their respiratory systems, like not tied to the rest of their body. Like a cheetah actually can run, can accelerate faster, but they're almost like an accordion. So they don't, they don't have like the lung capacity to run.
00:36:10
Speaker
And so, uh, like we, like people still do it in a tribe in Africa where they'll just like run an ample, an antelope sick. Like, it'll just like die. Cause it's exhausted. And I was like, oh, makes sense.
00:36:22
Speaker
So, uh, I like that. It might, do I need to go deeper than that? It's some, you know, PhD from somewhere anthropologist and said, we were actually designed to be able to run long distance, not for speed. And I went great.
00:36:35
Speaker
yeah And yet one has to ask, like, what lens am I viewing my own life? Because we aren't in that era anymore. And I have to function in this modern world. And so does it make sense for me to be running around barefoot on all forms of pavement and just to prove that I'm living true to our human design?
Modern vs. Historical Lifestyles
00:36:57
Speaker
That's where it gets it gets a little goofy.
00:37:00
Speaker
Here we go. Now we're now we're getting somewhere. so you But you could extend that out to everything. Like, okay, we you know the modern lifestyle gets shit on all the time. Well, no wonder we're unhealthy and fat. and It's not just processed food and everything. We're like a sedentary lifestyle.
00:37:13
Speaker
Like, how far do you want to go? like It's like back to the back to being an organic farmer is is really where we all need to go. Not necessarily. I just think you just acknowledge the gray area. I mean, you realize, right, in that era where they were putting and intense pressure on their bodies and it was highly inflammatory and they were...
00:37:34
Speaker
um not eating regularly. They lived till 30 years old or 40 years old. Now, some rando will come out and read the history books recently, and he'll get online and sell stuff by saying, actually, they were all wrong. People lived till they were 90 back then. You see, you have stuff like that confusing people, but generally they had shorter lifespans.
00:37:54
Speaker
Yes, we sit more and we accumulate diseases by the time we get older, but We live long and prosper. We live long and prosper. We live long and I'm gonna Google life spans throughout history. Yeah, that that's the... That's it right there. So if if the old way of living was so much better, why? Like up until recent in human history, life spans were like nothing, right?
00:38:19
Speaker
Yeah. i mean So there's always a whether at- argument? For everything. Like if you look at like, I think cars suck and I wish that our history wasn't in America, wasn't built on the automobile, but it was. And I can't ah search for the false negatives of like how terrible it would have
Automobiles and Freedom
00:38:36
Speaker
been without it. Like lack of freedom, people feeling trapped in their jank, small towns, whatever.
00:38:42
Speaker
I don't really know what the alternate history is like, but- You wouldn't believe what lifespan. it it's It's insane. Most of human history, life expectancy at birth hovered around 24 to 30 years, but that was due to high infant mortality and desire.
Conspiracy Theories and Society
00:39:00
Speaker
Right. Yeah.
00:39:01
Speaker
Most prehistoric times of birth. Yeah. 20. Yeah. But like how did people, how would, i don't understand how we're here. How were people born prehistoric times? A man died young. and Individuals who survived childhood often reached 50 to 60. So yeah, you just got to come out of gates, right?
00:39:18
Speaker
and Then you were good. But yeah, um I'm a believer. Politically, politically i think I'm more loose than you, though. Well, I think I'm judging a little more on character.
00:39:31
Speaker
Maybe that's my problem. the my My problem, which I think you have it too, but so my skepticism of the whole the whole system in general, and and so my idea is just to avoid it all, leads me naturally to believe more of the conspiracy theory that like all this shit is bullshit.
00:39:48
Speaker
And it's all... It's like everything. so So that would lead me to believe, like, alright, if someone like RFK says pharmaceutical companies are corrupt and suck, I'm pretty open to that message.
Challenging Climate Change Narratives
00:40:02
Speaker
Or... You know, even probably more than you, like if you want to say climate change, if people are like climate, like climate change is not as bad as people say, I'm probably more open to that message than you.
00:40:12
Speaker
I think you're just, you just have a contrarian bent in general, but like. But so do you. You're just, you're just different. I guess, I guess, I guess. You don' you don't think you're contrarian.
00:40:27
Speaker
It's just what we, what we believe in. No, I mean, like, if if I were to say to you, I think big ah corporate money and Citizens United and corporate money in politics is bad for society.
Skepticism Towards Corporate Marketing
00:40:42
Speaker
um Would you agree with that? but Would you think that's contrarian? I don't think that's contrarian. I think that's a... No. I mean, we have our points. But if someone explained to you why it's good...
00:40:53
Speaker
i might I might be able to understand that logic, but... Do you do you believe... do you how do you How do you take marketing messages? Are you immediately like, that's bullshit?
00:41:05
Speaker
I guess you're right. Maybe that is contrary. Marketing messages generally, I'm just like, that's that's horse shit. Like immediately. Like if something says more more fiber, like a a granola bar, and it's from RJ Nabisco or something, i immediately like, that that thing is a piece of shit. It's terrible.
00:41:21
Speaker
Yeah, no, I'm not a big fan, but i like to like I like digging into the incentives of- What's the motivation type? type Yeah, what what's the motivation for their engineering of the dishwasher?
00:41:32
Speaker
you know Is the motivation to for subcomponents to break because they they sell them at a high profit? you know what's um what's the motivate What's behind their capitalistic approach? That's super interesting to me. That seems contrarian in a good way. but It's a skepticism of of the motivations of of business and capitalism. Now, you can take it too far where everybody's a bad actor.
00:41:56
Speaker
I don't believe that. Yeah. And you met people like that, right? That just thinks everyone has it. Because you've been out the world. Like, I worked with a bunch of engineers that were designing products, right? Like ah medical device products. And I have issues with, like, medical device a little bit and stuff. But at the same time, I knew these people. Like, no, I don't think any our engineers are like, how do I get this to break after eight uses?
00:42:18
Speaker
Eight uses, you know? Which is what we think. Like, we think, ah, they're making cars shitty, so you have to buy more. They're making parts shitty, or they're doing this, or... You know, it's it's interesting that we we immediately were like, they're fucking screwing us.
00:42:32
Speaker
In some cases, it it was true. And obviously, we had to fight for the, they call it the right to repair. In some states, that's a law now ah that companies have to give you access to manuals and parts to repair electronics and other things. that They were trying to take advantage of us. I am actually, if i you want to know the height of my skepticism, is I do believe that consumers are getting fucked left and right um the information and uh and expertise asymmetry is so glaring that we're getting manipulated and screwed left and right through marketing through products uh business practices we're just getting fucked boned mike mike uh how so
00:43:16
Speaker
Oh, I don't mean how so. That's too broad of a question. Like, how about maybe like an example of like, okay, this is clearly like a company's attempt to screw people for profit. ah Everything from price gouging to like, you know, when there are areas of vulnerability jacking the prices to cheap component parts that we have to replace as consumers to selling things like warranties on consumer products that are not profitable for the consumer almost never to financial products that are manipulative on and on and on, dude. It's it it's a shit show.
00:43:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, that see, i don't know if that's contrarian or just in touch with reality. what would you How would you describe that? Yeah, it's just a skepticism of big business. of Like mankind, though, in a way, right?
00:44:08
Speaker
Well, of incentives. that's that's a great I mean, that that might be a thing we all need to get on board with is picking apart incentives and and trying and interpreting information based on our understanding of what a third party's incentives are.
00:44:24
Speaker
Yeah. and see, that's where I'm not like, like, cause I've been there where I, and I'm sure you have to like you where I'm like, Oh, we need, we need more, like we need to do something to make a better margin. So this product makes sense. And then you're like, you're searching for the lower, a lower price.
00:44:40
Speaker
And when you're doing it, it doesn't feel like some evil thing to fuck people. It's like, what's the best I can do, but make this profitable.
RFK and the Anti-Vax Movement
00:44:47
Speaker
And so I think a lot of it is like, is just an extension of that. Not necessarily like, uh,
00:44:53
Speaker
this evil monster thing. um And then some people might, you know, you might have a shittier part in a dishwasher because it's three ounces lighter and the whole dishwasher's lighter and that makes it shippable and that makes it whatever, you know, there's all that. There's there's some other stuff. Yeah, but exactly.
00:45:08
Speaker
And, but you know, somebody like ah RFK, and this is my last point, is like that guy, i mean, he's written successful books and he came to prominence being an anti-vaxxer.
00:45:19
Speaker
even in the face of glaring evidence to suggest that he's wrong, he's not gonna budge. and that And those incentives there, that the incentives to just stick with that message is a reason for me to be skeptical.
00:45:35
Speaker
So what do you think that guy's motivation is though? i think I think he's probably motivated by the health of of human beings in America. I think he probably is motivated decently.
00:45:46
Speaker
But I think he has tied himself to a movement that he has no choice but to continue to um align with. you know That's true of a lot of the people that Trump's put into office.
00:45:58
Speaker
you know they A lot of the people are ahead of these offices were conspiracy theorists, and they're wacky. Do you believe that... Like someone like, like RFK has, I don't know, not to make it sound ridiculous, like his heart's in a good place. Is this the execution's wrong? or Or do you think that no, there's, there's a, an agenda there that is just not good.
00:46:19
Speaker
I think that he's based on what I've seen, like, yeah, I think he's, he wants people to be healthier. And he has some beliefs that are logical and some that aren't. But I also think he's under a an administration where he's now forced to be compative and almost deceptive. And so in that sense, he doesn't have the character that I would i would seek for somebody in that position.
00:46:43
Speaker
Yeah. Well, there's that whole thing now too of of sort of playing ball where you where you have to. Like he had to come to terms with Trump. Like, because I don't think he was pretty outspoken against Trump for a few years, right? before Before he got in bed with him, so to speak. And then it was like, all right, he's playing he's playing the same game that that he he has to if he wants to get like, no one's going to vote for that guy with the voice and just didn't have a political party backing and everything. So he had he did what we he had to do.
00:47:11
Speaker
Maybe, ah maybe. I should probably look more into him like because I have, I pretty much believe what he says. Yeah, I know you do. I'm i'm i'm serious. i'm I'm coming out to the world good saying that I believe ah RFK. Even my parents were like, that guy's insane. I was like, well, you should look into some of stuff he's saying. It might be true.
00:47:30
Speaker
Like what percentage, what percentage of the stuff he says would, would you say, were you right off immediately? Or is there, or is it, is there any small percentage where you go that's probably true. Or, you know, his attack on pharmaceutical companies, do you think that's all horseshit?
Pharmaceuticals: Criticism and Benefits
00:47:44
Speaker
Or you think, oh, yeah, there probably needs to be more regulation in that industry, or I don't know what, if regulation is the right word, but.
00:47:51
Speaker
I mean, you just immediately, because coming from him, it's horseshit. No, I think that that certain pharmaceuticals, certain types of controlled substances should be evaluated thoroughly in terms of how those are produced and marketed, for sure.
00:48:04
Speaker
I mean, who who doesn't hate the plethora of commercials that bombard you and with all the side effects? Who doesn't hate that whole process? I don't know what his bent is or what his opinion is about pharmaceutical companies with respect to how they're marketed, but sure, let's look at that.
00:48:21
Speaker
Let's look at processed food. Sure, let's do it. That pharmaceutical thing is is like uniquely American too, from United States America, because you don't get those advertisements, least where I've been that I've noticed anywhere else, definitely not here.
00:48:37
Speaker
ah It is insane. It's like the US is like pharmaceutical commercial. Yeah. So, I mean, we've talked about that before and everyone has, but like that I go, up well, that, that is kind of fucked up that that's only happening there. And so if it takes him to to drive the the conversation about it, then great.
00:48:56
Speaker
You know, whether you whether you like him or not, or if he aligns with Trump or not, it seems like that's a good thing. And and there's plenty of pharmaceutical products. Like we had Jesse Case on, who's actually probably far more left than you. And he was like, well, I would be dead if it wasn't for pharmaceutical companies, right? Of course.
00:49:13
Speaker
so Of course. But I don't i don't ever just... because of the side I generally lean to. i don't, I try not to, but I don't just go so hardcore. Like when he came out and said, why would we allow people on SNAP benefits to, you know, indulge in all this high sugar shit?
00:49:32
Speaker
Why would we give people government benefits to make their health worse? You're like, fuck that RFK. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I like how people like spun that as he's being racist or.
00:49:46
Speaker
That's good. Well, I think you're pretty healthy in your approach to everything. I think you've got it got it solved. Yeah, I know.
Balancing Skepticism and Belief
00:49:52
Speaker
I know. Boring. Boring.
00:49:56
Speaker
Drive off. Drive off.
00:50:21
Speaker
you