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Guest Vanessa Quigley on Entrepreneurship, Motherhood and More! {Episode 206}
553 Plays2 years ago
We love nothing more than inviting incredible, powerful, accomplished moms on our podcast and Vanessa checks all the boxes.
She's an experienced mom to 7, a talented singer and co-founder (with her husband) of Chatbooks, the mom-friendly photo book solution!
We loved Vanessa's outlook on life, her dedication to her children and her willingness to step into the role of entrepreneur when she felt the call to do so.
You're gonna be so inspired by this one!
Check out Vanessa on Instagram
Chatbooks on Instagram
Chatbooks online
MomForce Podcast hosted by Vanessa
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Outnumbered Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Outnumbered the Podcast. I'm Audrey. And I'm Bonnie. We are experienced moms to a combined total of 19 children. In our weekly episodes, we explore relatable topics using our perspectives of humor and chaos. Tune in for advice and encouragement to gain more joy in your parenting journey.
Introducing Vanessa Quigley
00:00:31
Speaker
Okay, welcome back everyone. We are so excited to have a new guest today. Vanessa Quigley is on the podcast with us and she has some amazing things in store for us because she is an experienced mom, also of many, also very talented. She's the whole package. So we're very excited to learn from her. Welcome Vanessa. Hi, I'm so glad to be here.
00:00:50
Speaker
Yes.
Humor in Parenting: Name Changes
00:00:51
Speaker
Okay. So I'm going to let you do a full introduction of yourself, but I think Audrey wants to ask you a question first, as we always start like this. Do you have a humor segment to start us off with? We know as moms of many that humor is the key ingredient in our success.
00:01:06
Speaker
Yeah, and it's a key way to survive, right? You just got to be able to laugh at it all. And gosh, there are so many. I have to share a story about my son, Calvin. He's my oldest, right? The guinea pig child is how we refer to him.
00:01:21
Speaker
And we named him after Calvin Hobbs, this is how young we were, we were like, oh, we love that comic book. Let's name our oldest son after a comic book character. So his name is Calvin. We were very proud of it. We had to fiercely defend that choice to our parents who all thought it was like the weirdest, most old fashioned. Why would you name him after Calvin Coolidge? We're like, no, you don't get it. Anyway, when he got old enough to like get ideas of his own, he decided to change his name to Max.
00:01:47
Speaker
And so everywhere we went, he introduced himself as Max and it was very confusing. I didn't know, am I supposed to like hold up the charade for him or am I supposed to correct him? Because when I was in third grade, I actually changed my name from Vanessa to April, primarily because we were learning cursive and I thought a cursive A was much more graceful.
00:02:05
Speaker
than a cursive V. And my friend Angela, she made a beautiful A. So anyway, I experimented with changing my name too. But anyway, that was that was kind of one of those moments like I was not expecting this, but he's now 20.
00:02:18
Speaker
Oh my goodness, he's 27 and he lives in New York City. And last time I went to go visit him, his wife was working and he and I were just out walking around going to lunch. And more than once people thought we were a couple. So that was, that was funny and horrifying for both of us, but you know, a whole new phase of parenting adult kids. So.
00:02:38
Speaker
Um, I have discovered I love adulting, uh, parenting my adult children. It's really fun. I have not ever been thought that I was their spouse, but their sibling, I've been sibling many times. Yeah. Well, I hadn't seen him in so long and maybe it was holding on to him and just a little too much. And it was just, yeah, we, we kept her a little more distance between us after that, but I would take that as a wonderful compliment. But does he go by max now?
00:03:08
Speaker
No, no, no, no, he's that was just a funny phase. No, he is very proudly Calvin now. But yeah, he's my oldest of seven.
Family Influence on Vanessa's Life
00:03:16
Speaker
I'm the oldest of 12. So I feel like I forget that other people have big families because at least and I live in Utah, there are a lot of big families here, but not very many have seven and you have 10 and nine. I'm just I love it. What a gift for your kids. I loved growing up in a big family. I knew I wanted a big family, but
00:03:35
Speaker
My husband is the oldest of three and he thought it would be fun to have more, but like we decided to meet in the middle. We agreed on having six, half of what I had twice as what, what he had. Um, and then we had a bonus Declan's or bonus baby number seven and our hearts are full and as you know, and it's wonderful and I love it. Oh, and I love that name. Declan that was on our list too. That's so cute. Love it. Good Irish name to go with quickly. That's right.
00:04:01
Speaker
Okay. So, um, all right.
The Birth of Chatbooks
00:04:03
Speaker
So we got your family backstory, but tell us what else you do because that's big too.
00:04:07
Speaker
Well, I, for the last eight years, have been working as an entrepreneur and a co-founder with my husband in a software company called Chatbooks. We help people get their photos out of their phones and off of social media and into the hands of their families. And it's nothing that I ever thought I would ever be doing. I actually come from a long line of entrepreneurs in my family, but I had my heart set on singing on Broadway. That was actually what I wanted to do. I love to sing and perform.
00:04:36
Speaker
And although I studied music in college with the intent actually to sing opera, I discovered opera when I was in college and loved that. But I graduated with a degree in vocal performance and a one-year-old. And so my career looked very different. It was mostly community theater and just local gigs. But one thing that was really important to me as a new mom was
00:05:04
Speaker
helping my family hold on to the story of our lives. And scrapbooking was really big in the 90s, right? It was, everyone was doing it. There were scrapbooking stores. It was just, it was a fun creative outlet, but also felt like an important job to be done. And so I was diehard scrapbooking, like put the kids to bed and just scrapbook into the night. I loved it.
00:05:23
Speaker
But as the babies kept coming and more and more photos and less time for scrapbooking and then honestly when we got our first digital camera that changed how we managed our photos. Like instead of dropping off the film to Costco and picking up the prints and then that felt like urgency to scrapbook it and get them in the books all of a sudden I just was accumulating photos on my computer and on my phone and then later years later on social media and
00:05:50
Speaker
When my youngest, my seventh, was getting ready to go to kindergarten, he's the jolliest kid on the planet. So to hear him bawling his eyes out upstairs, I thought for sure there was going to be a broken bone or something. I ran upstairs to see what on earth is wrong. And he was just feeling all of the feels on the eve of going to kindergarten, looking through a little photo album his preschool teacher had made for him of just
00:06:16
Speaker
field trips and class parties and just, you know, little snapshots that she had dropped into a little dollar store album and had given to all the kids on their preschool graduation. And he was looking back on that and having, you know, a little, you know, tender moment. And it was adorable. But it also was this sucker punch of like, oh, there's so much more to his life. You know, the youngest in a big family like he's had many grand adventures. And how was he ever going to look back on it? Because I certainly didn't want him scrolling my Instagram.
00:06:46
Speaker
which is basically how I'd been like curating our family's memories as I shared, you would post hoping that family and friends, you know, because I'm so bad at keeping in touch with people. Anyway, I wasn't going to let him scroll Instagram. I had a thought, I just need to get those posts out of my phone and into his hands. And my husband who had a career as an entrepreneur building software for different businesses and industries, I gave him my idea and then chatbooks was born. So that's
00:07:14
Speaker
That's kind of how I got thrust out of my comfortable life of singing part-time singer and stay at home mom to, to entrepreneur. And we've been doing it now for eight years. Wow. I love it. I love it. You guys have just been around for eight years. Is that it? I mean, longer.
00:07:32
Speaker
Our first chat book we sold eight years ago, but if I'm being honest, like 10 years ago, my husband sold his business and started building software to help people hold onto their stories. But he was building it like the software that helped supply food and beverage industries. It was basically enterprise software for families.
00:07:54
Speaker
It was really beautiful and it was complex. It was complicated. And I don't think that he wasn't keeping our user in mind. And the user is a busy mom, like me. And the last thing I have to do, the last thing I have energy for is to lean in and figure out software.
00:08:12
Speaker
do work. The beauty in our original chapbook's hero product was that we took something that people were already doing, sharing, you know, highlights of their family's stories on social media and giving them what they wanted without any friction. Now over the years, behaviors have changed. A lot of people don't use Instagram the same way or you realize that
00:08:31
Speaker
Yeah, there are those things that I share on Instagram, but there are other photos on my camera roll that are an important part of our story that I would never share publicly. I kind of came to that realization as my kids got older and older and they were more and more horrified about some of the things that I would share. So we now, our hero product at Chatbooks is our subscription month books where you just photos right from your camera roll every month. And it's the easiest way to make photos, photo books, and honestly,
00:08:59
Speaker
Like the process of making photo books, it's not meant to be a chore or like a job to be done that's like weighing on you and guilting you. It becomes this beautiful gratitude practice that as you take photos throughout your daily life of the ups and the downs, I think it's important to capture all of that. Like the pile of shoes at the front door that you wish people would just put away.
00:09:19
Speaker
Snap a picture of it because one day your house is going to be empty and you're going to look back on that and be like, oh, those were the days, right? But as you recognize those moments, see those moments, snap a photo of them, hold onto them, it becomes this beautiful ongoing gratitude practice that makes us feel like we're doing a better job as parents. It helps kids see where they fit in the world and where they came from and
00:09:40
Speaker
how important they are to this family. And there's just so many amazing, incredible benefits. And it's just, even though I never thought I would be doing this, building a business, I am so grateful that we are building one that has a mission to strengthen families.
00:09:55
Speaker
That is really, really awesome. You know, as a mom of a big family and, and with older kids, some moving out, something I'm finding is that I have like one book and then the next kid is like, Hey, I want a book too. And I'm like,
Balancing Family and Entrepreneurship
00:10:11
Speaker
Oh, and help me if I had it all in chat books, I'd be like, Oh, here's the link. Just order what you want. Right.
00:10:16
Speaker
Exactly. Yes. Yes. Yes. I know. Most of our customers are younger with like, you know, just young families, but that's something is I'm on the other end of it too. I only have two to my youngest living at home. Yeah. That's a real thing. And being able to just order another copy. It's very nice. Yeah. Yeah. So you said 10 years basically you've been being an entrepreneur with chat books. So tell us about what you found as like the biggest challenge.
00:10:43
Speaker
as being an entrepreneur and you had young kids at home. So mom. Yeah. So those first two years of the 10 years, it was mainly my husband doing it. I was still full-time momming, singing. And I was just providing focus groups to meet and talk about the thing that he was building. And my role in his career was always just cheerleader. Like, yeah, I'm here to hold on the fort when you have to travel.
00:11:10
Speaker
I didn't ask for many questions. If I'm being honest, I didn't really care what he was doing. I was just like, just make sure that you're home when you say you're going to be and be ready to help me with the kids. I just wasn't that interested. I just didn't have a mind for business. He would always want to, like when we were out to dinner or like even like lying in bed, like want to talk about business plans or like, if you could build any kind of business, what would you want to? And I'm like, oh my gosh.
00:11:35
Speaker
This is not working for me. Actually, the hardest part is after I got this idea of, oh, let's figure out a way to print my Instagram. And he started running with it. He wanted me to join the team and keep giving him more great ideas. But I'm like, no, that was my one big idea.
00:11:51
Speaker
I was at this point in my life where my youngest was going to school full-time. I was going to have my days free. I was contemplating going back to school. I mean, there were a lot of things that I thought I could do at this time. And building a business with my husband was not one of them. But he kept asking and I kept thinking about it. And honestly, when I, one morning was doing my morning devotional and I was
00:12:13
Speaker
you know, reading some scripture and just trying to like plan out my day. And it just was like the most clear direction I had received from heaven in a really long time that I needed to join the team and I needed to build this business with him. And it was so clear, I knew it was exactly what I had to do. And I just started bawling because I didn't want to do it. I was so, I was scared. Honestly, I didn't know anything about building a business. And I was nervous about,
00:12:42
Speaker
working with my husband, we were always the boss of our own domains and I liked that and I just was worried about how is this gonna work for our relationship, like doing this hard thing together. But anyway, I'm grateful for the faith I had to just call him up and say, all right, fine, I'm in, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'll do it. And going from there, so it was really hard to just accept that that was the path that I knew I needed to be on.
00:13:08
Speaker
I mean, time management and energy management because I still really, really just wanted to be the mom that I had always been. And you can't do both the same way. I couldn't be the founder like other founders and the mom like I had been. There was just some sacrifices that had to be made. So deciding
00:13:29
Speaker
what those sacrifices were going to be. I mean, I continue to do that on a daily basis. Like I had, for example, today I had another meeting this afternoon, but then one of my oldest kids is getting ready to move into a new apartment and he wanted me to go help him look at a couple apartments and that felt like a real
00:13:47
Speaker
Oh yes, I want to do that because that means that we get to drive an hour there and that's good conversation time. And I want to be able to support them because I don't know about you guys, but my older kids, they don't ask for help that often. And so when they do, I want to be there. So I had to do a little rescheduling of my day and this is this constant give and take, which is sometimes exhausting. And my husband, even though
00:14:08
Speaker
you know, working together, I will say has been just a beautiful thing for our relationship. I know I mentioned earlier, I didn't really care about what he did before. Now that I'm kind of going through it with him, I just have so much respect and gratitude for him because this is hard. Like, I can't believe you did this all these years without me fully like giving you the
00:14:27
Speaker
The kudos, what is he called? The ooh-ing and awing that he deserved, because it is really, really hard. And also, we've had to redefine how we do things at home. He does a lot more at home than he used to, because I'm doing a lot more out of the home. But there are still things that he doesn't fully get. He doesn't reorganize his schedule around
00:14:54
Speaker
He just sets a schedule and he just does it because he's done that his whole life. Like I just work from nine to five and I just I don't even think about anybody. All of a sudden I've done working. I want to know where my dinner is. It's like some of those things are hard to outgrow. We're working on it. But but yeah, just that constant give and take. It's it's a huge it's a privilege. You know, it's part of the real privilege is of being an entrepreneur. But it's you got to be in tune constantly to make sure you're making the right trade offs.
00:15:20
Speaker
Oh, I love that. And what a fun story of how you guys got started. Um, so Audrey and I, in addition to the podcast, we both own our own businesses as well. So we love entrepreneurial stories and we love talking to business owners and we so get that, that poll, you know, sometimes we think, you know, are we crazy for having these big families that really could take every last minute of your day to care for, um, in addition to something to put out in the world, but we really feel powerfully about, you know, doing what you feel called to do. So I love that you.
00:15:48
Speaker
We're maybe a little bit resistant, but felt called to do this. And so you, you answered that call. So, um, let's think about our, our listeners for a minute. If there are those out there who are maybe feeling a little bit of that push, but are feeling terrified, what would you suggest to them? You have any insights on how to get over that fear? Oh my gosh. I mean,
00:16:08
Speaker
Isn't that fear usually the beginning of something wonderful and beautiful? And that's why I'm so grateful for my faith that allows me to get confirmation if I'm going in the right direction, because yeah, maybe it is a warning.
00:16:19
Speaker
But maybe it's just like, okay, that means there's something going to be really big and beautiful on the other side.
Overcoming Entrepreneurial Fear
00:16:25
Speaker
And if it's like starting a business, if that's something that you're thinking about and you don't know if you have the experience, I mean, for me, one of the things that helped me like take that leap was that my husband had so much experience. And so I wasn't completely doing it on my own. And I know not everyone's married to a Harvard MBA, but there are
00:16:44
Speaker
other people out there that you can find your people. This is the beauty of social media and the internet is you can find a network, you can find a mentor who can help cheer you on and help you kind of pave that way. But I think whether it's starting a business or, you know,
00:17:00
Speaker
going back to school or whatever it is, whatever that scary thing is, it's just understanding that your life might not look exactly as you thought it would or it might not look like your best friends or what your mom thought your life was going to look like. And you've got to be fully ready to own that and be okay with that because, you know, that was something even when, let's see, after I had my fifth baby,
00:17:23
Speaker
I kind of slowed down between baby number four and five of singing. It was something that I kind of kept up with until my, actually it was after my third was born, and then I was just like up to my eyeballs. I chose to have a couple like 18 months apart, and I thought it was a really good idea, but it was really, it took a toll on me for a couple years, and I wasn't singing as much, and all of a sudden I was like, why can't I stop crying? And my husband's like, I think you need to start singing again. So I had five kids and was,
00:17:51
Speaker
Auditioning and getting booked on jobs and which meant you know all day long I was trying to learn lines and learn my music and then I would leave the house at 430 to go to rehearsal And yeah, it was really really hard, but it's what I wanted and it was filling my cup so much But I had a girlfriend who was like she had as many kids as I did same age as I did and she was like I don't know how you're doing this like Don't you feel bad a little bit like how are you
Motherhood and Entrepreneurship: A Comparison
00:18:15
Speaker
able to do it? and it was just like it was a completely different experience than the kind that experience she was having and
00:18:21
Speaker
in her motherhood. And I'm so grateful that in the moment I didn't feel bad about what I was doing. I was just like,
00:18:29
Speaker
Oh, I don't know how we're doing it. We're just making it work, but I'm just, I'm having so much fun. And I remember her saying that she felt like she didn't really have anything outside of motherhood, that she felt like she didn't have any talents and didn't even know what she would spend more time on. And that gave me a chance to point out all of the many incredible gifts that I saw in her and how she blessed our family too, because you know what? She was one of those moms who loved to get on the floor and play.
00:18:53
Speaker
that she would play pet shop and beauty shop and like all of the fun stuff and my kids were the benefit, you know, they benefited from that being able to go over there. And so anyway, just recognizing that your life might not look exactly like everyone else's and that's okay. And you might just be
00:19:08
Speaker
paving a brand new course. And they might not have someone exactly who you're modeling it after. But make sure you have people in your life who get you and are cheering you on. And I was really grateful my husband has been that for me, our whole marriage. And even in some of the scariest moments when we were building the business and I just felt like I have no background in business. I have no business being here. He would say there's no one right way to be an entrepreneur.
00:19:37
Speaker
And that was just such a powerful thing to me because I had learned that in motherhood, that there was no one right way to be a mother. And I just applied all that to this role as entrepreneur. And I might not know what all the acronyms mean, and I might not know what a flywheel is or whatever you're talking about, but that's okay, you know, because I'm my own brand of entrepreneur. And that actually has served us very well in our business as we have built a business that primarily caters to moms.
Family Culture in Business
00:20:04
Speaker
Yeah, that is really amazing. I love that. I think both Bonnie and I have found that there's a lot of things that have served us well that we've learned by being a parent, by being a mother, that we can take into then our businesses and things that we wouldn't even have expected that would apply to entrepreneur, being an entrepreneur as well. So that's cool to hear you say that too.
00:20:27
Speaker
I also think some of the best people on our team, they're mothers or fathers. Family is something that we focus on as we do everything in our business outwardly and inwardly. And so creating a culture that supports families, mothers and fathers is something that's been really important to us too. Especially coming off of a career where my husband was working in
00:20:52
Speaker
areas where they didn't quite respect the family first. So anyway, yeah.
00:20:59
Speaker
So Vanessa, can you share with us like a self development tool that you recommend because I know that a lot of us as mothers feel like we're under qualified or underdeveloped or we have like one skill that's like motherhood and like those of us going into it have found that there's a lot of motherhood that applies to other areas of life serves us immensely well in other areas of life, but we want to hear from you.
00:21:23
Speaker
What is a self-development tool that you would recommend to other women or other mothers?
Learning and Self-Development Resources
00:21:30
Speaker
a self-development tool. Well, I will say I have relied on Google for many, many things, especially like, I remember my first day on the job at Chatbooks, I was like, okay, I'm taking on marketing, how do you do marketing? And I literally Googled that. How do you market a software company? How do you get people to want you to, you know, like there are so many incredible resources on the internet, you literally can learn to do anything.
00:21:56
Speaker
my youngest, I came home the other day, he was making beef stroganoff. And I'm like, how are you doing this? Oh, we just use the Google Home. I just asked Google, she just told me how to do it. So like, he is such a great example of growing up thinking there's no limit to what I can do because I can just ask Google. So I rely on that for a lot of things in my business and even parenting. Oh my goodness, what was the question I asked the other day? Oh, one of my kids is experimenting with
00:22:22
Speaker
telling the truth, not telling the truth, to an extent that I have not encountered before. And I literally googled, how do you help a compulsive liar? And it's a suggested psychotherapy. And I was like, OK, maybe we need to do that. I don't know. I do know there's.
00:22:38
Speaker
you know, not all the answers that are going to be good for you or your family will be found on the internet. I love audiobooks and podcasts. I'm always listening to something unless my kids are in the car. That is my one role. If my kids are in front of me, I want to be listening to them or at least let them think that I'm ready to listen if they want to talk. But the time that I'm alone, like,
00:22:55
Speaker
Walking the dog, doing the laundry, you know, driving. I'm always listening to a book or a podcast that's just like broadening my horizons and helping me learn skills, either how to be a business leader or how to be a mother, friend, wife. We actually have a podcast episode that I don't remember what we titled it because the whole time we were making it, Bonnie and I called it Little Liars.
00:23:22
Speaker
I need to listen to that. Oh boy. Yes. This is an interesting. Yeah. And when you have a large family, you really do think, you know, you'll get through three or four kids and think I've got a handle on things. And then a kid comes up with an issue and you're like, never seen that one before. What do we do now? Well, and that's our youngest is literally breaking the mold in every way. And he's all of the wonderful, amazing things. But like, I secretly wondered if, you know, by the time my, you know, my kids were all getting older, if I was going to get tired and kind of like poop out, like kind of like my parents did, you know, they just, I could
00:23:52
Speaker
tell they retired and they just let my little brother do whatever he wanted. And I thought it was ridiculous, but no, there's no chance of that. He is keeping us on our toes and fully engaged. So. Love it. Okay. Just to go back real quickly here at the end, you mentioned, um, building a business became something for you. That was that extra thing. First it was singing, and then you were able to, to kind of feel fulfilled. Um,
00:24:16
Speaker
What other than that, or maybe that is the greatest blessing, but what has been the greatest blessing for your family that you've seen as you've become an entrepreneur and a working mom.
Family Involvement in Chatbooks
00:24:25
Speaker
Yeah. And this is something that I hadn't anticipated going into it. I've mostly felt like the impact it's going to have on me personally, right? I didn't realize what a blessing it was going to be for the family. And it's in part because we involve them from the very beginning. Like as we would, you know, ideate around product development, we would do that around the dinner table and get their buy-in on it because we're creating a product that we hope that they would enjoy and want and feel the blessing of. And so I think
00:24:50
Speaker
right from the very beginning, they really felt invested because they were part of the think tank that helped us, you know, create the products. And then, you know, the fact that I was working meant that I was not going to be there for all the, you know, art classes and the class parties and all the things that I, you know,
00:25:06
Speaker
was doing before, so they felt that sacrifice, and this is what I'm grateful for, rather than resenting me for it, it was exciting for them because they knew that we were doing, we were building our business together. So, the sacrifice that I was making, it was, they were bought in on it, right? And when I wasn't able to, you know, make dinner every single night, like I love to do and I had done for many years, you know,
00:25:32
Speaker
they didn't resent it, they were actually came up to the plate and started helping make dinners because this is how they were contributing to the business together. And so being able to have our kids be part of it and as they got older, like we literally hire them too. Right now I've got
00:25:49
Speaker
One of my older daughters, she is an intern on our social media team. One of my older sons is an intern on the data analytics team. We have a son that's an intern on the accounting team. And my oldest daughter is our podcast producer. So it is so fun for us to be able to work with them and then give them experiences and opportunities to learn and learn new things and grow in ways that they didn't, they might not have had any other way. But yeah, it just feels like this,
00:26:17
Speaker
this thing that we're doing together and we're all growing from. And then lastly, like, I know I always felt like as I would go out to sing and have my kids, especially as they'd come see the shows that I was in, I felt like I'm so glad they get to see me doing what I'm passionate about and see me, you know, doing something in addition to, you know, being an amazing mother. You're right. And this is just taking it to a whole new level because they know that I'm so outside of my comfort zone.
00:26:46
Speaker
I mean, on a regular basis, I'm like forced to or asked to do something that I'm so uncomfortable with. And I've been really open with them about it and sharing these experiences and hopefully showing that example of like, you can do hard things. And also the way that our family
00:27:03
Speaker
functions, it's very different now than it was 10 years ago in as far as like some of the traditional gender roles. I mean, they're very different from where our parents were. And I'm just grateful that my kids see that there's just a variety of ways of doing it. Even in their own lifetime, they've seen things change dramatically. There's no one right way to do it. And I hope it empowers all of my kids to follow their dreams and find a partner that is equally yoked with them in all that their hearts desire because that's been a huge part of it for us in our success.
00:27:33
Speaker
That is such a beautiful vision that you shared.
Where to Find Chatbooks
00:27:37
Speaker
It's like your reality, but for a lot of us, it's our vision to have a family business, something we can grow and bring our kids into. That's really amazing. Thank you so much for sharing. Can you tell us if people haven't already found you, which we're sure they have, where can they find chat books and you on the internet?
00:27:55
Speaker
Well, on Instagram, we're chatbooks and I'm at Vanessa Quigley. If you haven't already downloaded our chatbooks app, I would say do that because you got to check out how easy it is to make your photo books. We also put some fun content for families, including links to our podcast. I do a podcast once or twice a month called the Mom Force Podcast, a community of women just looking for the answers to the tough questions, right? Yeah, that's about it.
00:28:21
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah. And I'll, I'll put in a plug for chat books. We've ordered them for years and my kids, we just have to pull them off the shelf and my kids are entertained for hours and oh my gosh, look how cute I was. And oh my gosh, look how chubby you were. So fun. I love hearing stories like that. A beautiful, beautiful business. And thank you again for your time, Vanessa. It's been an honor getting to know you so nice. You too. Thank you. Take care.
00:28:44
Speaker
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