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181 - Total Recall (1990) w/ Phil Smith
69 Plays6 months ago
“You are what you do. A man is defined by his actions, not his memory.”
We may be starting to wind down Arnie April 2: Austrian Boogaloo, but we’re still managing to come in HOT on this episode! And what luck - we’re joined by Stephen’s college roommate and all-around good guy Phil Smith to talk about Arnie’s last straight-up ‘80s action role! Along the way, we cast a Philip K. Dick biopic, espouse our shared love of practical effects, test Tucker’s good-bad dichotomy of Verhoeven films, discuss the best version of Blade Runner to watch, rate the scientific accuracy of this movie, and manage to squeeze in the briefest of Mighty Ducks deep dives! You aren’t gonna want to miss this one!
When he’s not living the life of a symbiote on the belly of a freedom fighter, you can find him hanging out on the internet here:
- Check out Phil’s cosplay fits at @justsomenerdnamedphil on Instagram.
- Look for Phil’s #D printed wares at @philsn3rdfoundry on Instagram or shop online at https://philsn3rdfoundry.com.
- Also, subscribe to Phil’s cyberpunk writing Patreon at https://patreon.com/philwritesbadly
If life is but a dream, then social media must be the waking nightmare. Follow us there to make it more bearable:
- @Disenfranchpod on Bluesky, Facebook, Instagram, Letterboxd, and YouTube.
- Email us your thoughts or requests to [email protected]
- Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!
- Find Stephen at @ChewyWalrus on Bluesky, Instagram, and Letterboxd.
- Find Brett at @sus_warlock on Letterboxd.
- Find Tucker at @icenine09 on YouTube and Instagram and @tuck_mugs on Instagram.
- Join our Patreon for exclusive bonus content, including weekly episodes of What Are We Watching? at https://patreon.com/Disenfranchpod
- Watch our big screen debut in Circle City Supernatural from our buddy J.P. Leck! You can eitherbuy it on BluRay through his website, buy/rent it through Amazon Prime, or watch it free with adson Tubi!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts
00:00:09
Speaker
you
00:00:20
Speaker
No sequel for you. We can podcast it for you wholesale on the disenfranchised podcast. That's right. We're that podcast all about those franchises of one, those films that fancy themselves full fledged franchises before falling flat on their face after the first film. I am your host, Stephen Foxworthy. And has he really been gone since February or was all that just a dream? It's Brett Wright. Hey, Brett. We're back. We're back, baby. The boys is back. How you been, buddy?
00:00:48
Speaker
I have been all right. You've been. You've been. I mean, if my introductions of you from week to week or any indication, you've been up to a lot of shit. I can either confirm nor deny it's all been recalled away. Oh, as it
Humorous Banter and Pop Culture References
00:01:04
Speaker
does. Also with us tonight, a resident stupid bitch. It's Tucker. Hey, Tucker. Hi, Steven. How's it going? It's going. I need to let everyone know Tucker requested. I call him that. But
00:01:17
Speaker
I did because the line in the movie like they're just all kind of talking to each other regular and the guy's like, you stupid bitch. It's like, oh, damn. OK, calm down, dude. Damn. Oh, it's great. And also, also it's. Yeah, we'll get to it. Yeah.
00:01:35
Speaker
Also joining us three boobs tonight is Judge's Choice cosplay winner at the Cleveland Fan Expo, literally yesterday as of the date of this recording, for his Gandalf the Grey cosplay. It's my...
00:01:47
Speaker
College roommate, you might know, remembering from the Street Fighter episode, it's Phil Smith. Hey, Phil. Howdy. That was, wow, you just, I just, if I ever have to go on the run from like law enforcement, I just hope you're not the first person they call. Cause you're going to have like every deep, you've got all the receipts, man. Here's the thing. I'll keep them on the phone so long with all those details. You'll have plenty of time to get away.
00:02:10
Speaker
You'll be in Mexico by that time. Correct. Genius. I'll be on the I'll be on the beach with with Andy in red, like helping the boat. And San Juan Tineo.
Celebrating 'Arnie April'
00:02:19
Speaker
You remember the name of the town, don't you? Zuatanejo.
00:02:25
Speaker
But yes, we are all four of us together tonight to celebrate week three of Arnie April, that is of Arnie April 2, Austrian Boogaloo. Let's get it right. In order to commemorate one of the last bastions of Arnold's 80s action,
00:02:48
Speaker
Ness, even though the film was released in 1990. Yeah, because this is kind of his last hurrah when it comes to his action stuff. And we'll talk about that, obviously, tonight. But we're here to talk about 1990s Total Recall, directed by Paul Verhoeven, written by Dan O'Bannon. Yes, that Dan O'Bannon. Ronald Shussett, Gary Goldman.
00:03:15
Speaker
and starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, Rachel Ticotin, Sharon Stone, Ronnie Cox, Michael Ironside, Twins' Marshall Bell, Michael Champion, Mel Johnson Jr., Roy Brocksmith, Twins' Rosemary Dunsmore, and also performances by Robert Costanzo, the great Robert Costanzo, Robert Picardo,
00:03:40
Speaker
Dean Norris and Debbie Lee Carrington, among others. What a cast. Gentlemen, dare I say it? Well, I'm gonna say it. You may not agree. What a picture. I'm gonna start off by saying something positive about this movie. Are you guys ready? It's gonna be the only thing he's positive he says all night, I'm sure. Problem. I'm gonna edit this out. Hold on. Everyone get it out now. Yeah, if he's gonna edit this. Definitely.
Discussion on 'Total Recall' and Arnold's Roles
00:04:10
Speaker
the only good thing I'll say about this movie is that Roy Brock Smith is in it. And as you all probably know, Roy Brock Smith is the VIP, even though he's on screen for just a few minutes of Bill and Ted's bogus journey, because he is the man who Ted possesses. And he says, I totally believe you, dude. And it's the best line delivery ever. Like the guy who plays Ted's dad is really good. Like they're both amazing and pretending to be Bill and Ted. But
00:04:40
Speaker
that I totally believe you, dude, ingrained in my mind forever. I have seen that movie twice, but as soon as you said The Other Cop, I was like, yep, okay. I know exactly who that guy is. Ooh, darn right. They can really decide and start eating. Oh, Bill and Ted's bogus journey. What a ride. Talk about that movie instead, you guys. No. No? Arnold Schwarzenegger is not in that movie. Oh, yeah. Dang it, you're right. What if he had been, though? Had he been?
00:05:11
Speaker
Who would he have played? Station. I was going to say station. Station. Big station. Station. And maybe little station with some camera work, you know. I was going to say either that or he could have played the he could have replaced Joss Ackland as the as the villain. But I like I like him as the villain because he's obviously very annoyed to be there, which really fits his character.
00:05:34
Speaker
just mentally copy-pasting Arnold into Joss Ackland rolls. I stopped somewhere between the first Mighty Ducks and the hunt for Red October. No. I mean, don't stop till you get to the third Mighty Ducks, frankly, because- I think we would all like to have stopped, wish that they had stopped before they got to the third one. Yes. I agree. Hard agree on that one. Absolutely.
00:05:57
Speaker
You can't afford to bring Emilio Estevez back for more than two scenes. Maybe just don't do the movie. I don't know. Wait, is Keenan Thompson in it, though? He is. Yeah, worth it. I only got rid of the annoying kids from the first from the first two. Oh, good. I have no context because I've never seen a mighty duck. Any mighty duck.
00:06:20
Speaker
The Mighty Ducks is like the first one of the first movies I saw in theaters, like not the first, but like it's pretty rad. People fucking love that movie. So I'm sure it's great. It's a nostalgia bomb for sure. I'm not sure that it's a good movie, but it's an it's a movie I'm nostalgic for. I think it kept.
00:06:39
Speaker
In between TV projects or prior to TV projects, it kept Joshua Jackson's momentum going. Yes. Just enough to get him into those TV projects, which would eventually get him into fringe for which we should all be grateful. I mean, yeah, it kind of kept him just in the public consciousness enough that he could sneak in there. This is part of your plot to talk about everything except the movie that that he brought me here to talk about, isn't it? Damn, it got me. It is. Tucker, Tucker ain't slick.
00:07:09
Speaker
is fine, is good. Look, this is tangents are what we do. Tangents come with the territory. Our audience expects it at this point. So am I going to put that we put did a Mighty Ducks deep dive? Yes, you bet I am. That's going in the show notes. So why do you think it's my favorite show to guest on? Honestly, I have it's the perfect ping pong stream of consciousness for my brain. Exactly. May I?
00:07:36
Speaker
Before we go any further, may I give a disclaimer for accountability's sake? Yes. Do you want me to read this or would you like to read this? I actually appreciate your interpretation of it. The entire message, please. OK. Just that one, though. Yeah.
00:07:50
Speaker
I'm starting at 848, the message you sent. This is a movie. This is Tucker. This is a text that Tucker sent to the group thread. A mere half an hour ago as of this moment. This is a movie that is so actively awful that it physically pisses me off. But I'm not going to get mad. Nope.
00:08:13
Speaker
I'm not going to get upset. I'm not going to get loud or have a manic fit. Nope. I'm just going to politely and respectfully voice my issues with this movie. There, now I'm accountable. Now I'm accountable. You all heard that. So if, if I start doing any of those things, please call me out.
00:08:33
Speaker
because I know how I can get and I'm gonna try really hard not to get that way. If you see me at any point looking at my phone, it's probably because I'm looking for which of those things you're currently doing. Okay, gotcha, all right.
00:08:47
Speaker
But yeah, so we're here to talk about Total Recall. And Phil, as our guest, what is your, I guess, let's start with Arnold Schwarzenegger. What is your relationship with the actor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, with his oeuvre? What do you perhaps know him best for? And then while we're on that topic, what is your relationship to this film specifically? So Arnold,
00:09:16
Speaker
When people, it's interesting, there's really a story of, we'll say three Arnold's. You've got 80s Arnold, like up to the first Terminator. I'm pretty new to the industry, I'm pretty new to the language.
00:09:39
Speaker
And very definitely, he knows what he's there to be the action guy. 90s Arnold, well, I guess starting from first Terminator, which is 88, right? First Terminator is 84, I believe. What? My brain. Yeah, Terminator, 84. Maybe I've been recalled.
00:10:04
Speaker
What another chase scene, quick, another chase. That's going to be a really unex I'm the last person you want to cast for a chase scene unless it's a really physical comedy. Correct. No, I'm going to add appeals. I would say, OK, so we'll say T2 onward. Arnold 90s Arnold. He definitely starts evolving. And I think that I'll get to this movie in particular, but he starts evolving through vehicles like this to being a much more like
00:10:34
Speaker
not just a dumb block of action actor, but like a very versatile, surprisingly good comedic chops kind of performer. And then you get Arnold, new millennium Arnold, who will just do whatever and he's made enough money and has kept busy enough that he can take the projects he wants
Exploration of Philip K. Dick's Impact
00:10:54
Speaker
now.
00:10:55
Speaker
Um, but I think nineties Arnold is probably the most memorable iteration of his career. It's that phase of his career. And again, this, this film kind of exemplifies that.
00:11:07
Speaker
Um, but as far as like my relationship to this film in particular, um, I was going to rewatch it before doing this, but I am in the middle of, I have two comic cons this month and I had to remake all my props. So I didn't get a chance to rewatch. Um, but I do remember this one because it is incredibly memorable.
00:11:30
Speaker
which is the best thing a movie can be more, I would say even more than good or bad is memorable. Um, and this one it's, it's memorable without, I dunno, um, to paraphrase a Nietzsche title, I think this film is beyond good and bad.
00:11:51
Speaker
It is evil. Yes, I say a phrase. It is there of such paltry notions as is about paltry notions of acting and production quality. I shouldn't say that, though, because like the editing is actually not bad, but it looks incredible. I'm sorry. Yeah, it is this movie. And I've used this as a compliment for a lot of films before. This movie knows what it's about and does it.
00:12:21
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that is the best thing. I mean, there's a lot of good things that I had to say about this movie, but I think that is probably the best summation of it. This movie knows what it's about. Arnie knows what he's about in this movie, and it sets out to hit beats and it sticks the landing on all of them, in my opinion. And you can go ahead and bring down my estimation of it. I'll let all of these guys worry about that.
00:12:54
Speaker
You and I have talked about Arnold before. We did a whole month, just you and me, just talking about Arnie. So we know how you feel about Arnie. In fact, you were the one that was like, what, we've got more Arnold to cover? Well, then I guess we're doing a sequel. Like that was, you were the sequel guy on that. You really spearheaded that, which I was
00:13:13
Speaker
Let's bring the hypocrisy right to the podcast. Exactly. We're just gonna speak it into existence. What is your relationship to this movie in particular and this kind of like late 80s, early 90s phase of Arnold's career? Well, I don't have much of a relationship with Total Recall, to be honest.
00:13:37
Speaker
It kind of, much like, much like Commando, which I also was not on. It just, like, it didn't really, I don't know, it was one of those Arnold movies I never saw. I was definitely more of a 90s Arnold guy outside of Predator. What was your first Arnold movie, remind me? It was probably Terminator 2. It might have been Predator though.
00:14:00
Speaker
I'm not sure. It's one of those two. It was either a Terminator or a Predator. Well, I mean, Predator is him in full action mode, and then T2 is kind of the softening of that edge. That's like Arnold Post-Twins, Post-kindergarten cop. So he's like a little softer around the edges, and Cameron definitely plays into that for Terminator 2, I would say.
00:14:23
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. And then of course, there's the last action hero of it all. Of course. I'm a very big fan of. See our episode on last action hero, quite frankly.
00:14:35
Speaker
Yeah, no, absolutely. It might be my favorite Arnold movie. The Predator's there, and I can't really say that with good faith. I mean, look, Brett, you have to be true to yourself. That's true. I do. But I mean, Last Action Hero isn't so good if all the other action movies that he made before that were there.
00:15:02
Speaker
I asked that guy to go to freeze. Thank you for dropping that in the chat, Filsi. What a guy. I mean, look, he's got his one liners in this movie. And, you know, last action hero wouldn't exist without those one liners. Tom Cruise sprints. Tom Hanks pees. Arnie gets really horrible puns. It's almost a writer. And Denzel never looks directly into the camera for posters because he knows we can't handle that. I couldn't know.
00:15:32
Speaker
No, who could? No. I see withering sex appeal. I can't. No, thank you.
00:15:40
Speaker
No, but I mean, yeah, so so this one was this the first time you've seen this movie Brad or have you? Okay, I've seen it a couple times before And it's one of those movies that doesn't get better or worse every time I watch it, but my opinion of it never changes, okay It's over the top and gross and long too long
00:16:14
Speaker
But I mean, you know, it's Arnold B and Arnold, so you can't be that mad about it. Right. Not with that attitude, Brett.
00:16:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's it's fine. It's what I definitely fall on the bad side of is it good or bad, but it's, you know, I'm not upset about it. It's okay. Neither of you will ever be the professional hater that my friend and former co-host Brandon is. He's good at it. We need to have Brandon on sometime. Absolutely. You absolutely do. Can we have a haters ball?
00:16:52
Speaker
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, I'm all
Debate: Dream or Reality in 'Total Recall'
00:16:54
Speaker
about that. Please bring another complainer and hater on here. International haters anthem. So that we can combine our powers and just spread hate into the world. Just a Voltron of hate, just all of this. Yes. A Revoltron. There it is. There it is. That's the one. That's the one. Tucker, what about you? What is your experience with Total Recall?
00:17:18
Speaker
Uh, well, Phil, you said that this movie is memorable and you are absolutely right. And I watched it 20 years ago and I remembered that I fucking hated it. So what I watched it tonight, I, you know, I'm really not sure if I liked it more or less. Cause like I said, the last time I watched it was probably 20 years ago and I was not impressed. So I have not had the urge to ever watch it again.
00:17:47
Speaker
So I'm not sure kind of if if it's gone up or down, but I just still really fucking hate it. So. Respectfully, I respectfully fucking hate it. That's fair. Like I want it to bring you guys joy. I do like it makes me happy that it makes you guys happy, but it just pisses me off, man. That's it. That's a bummer. I a manager because I found where the Bushmills was hiding in this jar.
00:18:10
Speaker
Hey, there it is. There it is. Found it. Hit pay dirt. It's like, continue. No, no, it's fine. So last week we talked about, just to kind of provide the rest of the context, last week we talked about twins, which is Arnie's first foray into comedy. Unless you count Red Heat, which no one should. That's the movie he made with Jim Belushi.
00:18:33
Speaker
for some reason. It's the other Belushi, yeah. Yes, yeah. And this is the movie he makes right after that. He does one episode of Tales from the Crypt and then...
00:18:44
Speaker
goes right into this movie. But immediately after this, he does kindergarten cop. So he's like, this is kind of his, right, this is kind of his last, like, straight 80s style comedy. And this movie was made in the late 80s. And then just came out in 90.
00:19:03
Speaker
And then you get, in 91, you get T2 Judgment Day. And then we start to see him sort of even, and that's kind of that, and I think Last Action Hero are of a piece where there are these movies where even though he is playing the bold action hero, there's a softer side to it.
00:19:25
Speaker
there's a family-friendly kind of slant, because it's Arnie plus a kid, which we already saw him do in Kindergarten Cop. So this is like the last just Arnold as an action dude going forward. And then from here on out, True Lies comes in 94. Brett, we talked about that one last year too, or a couple of years ago too. That one, it's him with his daughter, Eliza Dushku.
00:19:51
Speaker
And then you get junior also in 94 and that's the movie that kind of breaks Arnold. So yeah I Met Eliza she's awesome. Oh Yeah, I believe it. Sorry completely unrelated to anything. Sorry Tucker What did I say? You're saying I never I
00:20:18
Speaker
boy never never saw junior never saw junior oh yeah i never yeah that's what it was i never saw junior um and last this week last as week last week steven you thank you you uh told me that
00:20:34
Speaker
It didn't do very well, but I remember it being like a big deal. Was it just well-marketed? I think it was well-marketed. I can find it on the numbers here real quick. I remember it being everywhere, dude. Like commercials on TV, like I could probably recite half the trailer if I needed to. Oh, they were trying hard to sell it. I just don't think anyone bought it. Oh, word. Because I like, I liked Twins enough last week, even though I came out pretty meh on it.
00:20:58
Speaker
Right with the chemistry between the two stars enough that I kind of want to see Junior. That's the movie. Like is it back together? Junior, I can't imagine being any good. I just can't. Like it's the whole winning the it's the male pregnancy. And it's like we talked about last week that they the screenwriter they wanted to bring in is like, you can't do that because every man does not want to see their action hero emasculated like that. And every woman is going to think you're making fun of her.
00:21:28
Speaker
and like the trauma that childbirth is. So, I mean, I don't know, maybe Junior is a Tucker movie and just not a movie for normal people. Time is a flat circle. It's not a loop, Phil, it's a spiral. No. I'd buy that, yeah. Okay. No, I always forget that Tucker movies exist and yeah, it might be one.
00:21:54
Speaker
I'll look at it. I'll let you guys know. I'll look at it in the next couple of weeks. I'll let you guys know. I'm trying to find it because, of course, when I type in junior into the numbers, some movie that no one's ever heard of from 2003, 23 called Junior pops up. So I'm going to actually try to find it by looking at the weekly box office. That poster's iconic, you guys. Come on.
00:22:16
Speaker
How do you not want to see in that poster? You're like, what? Arnold's pregnant and Danny DeVito is the doctor. What? You mentioned the power of movie marketing in the 90s and it does. It is worth mentioning the pre-internet film marketing. You could get anybody to see anything because who was going to tell them it was a bad movie. People went and saw Battlefield Earth. I worked at the theater when it was there. People came to see it.
00:22:45
Speaker
Future episode of this podcast, Battlefield Earth. That's a testament to what you were just saying, Phil. Like, come on. If the Internet had been around, well, in the capacity that it is now when Battlefield Earth came out, motherfucker wouldn't have done more Bs numbers. Possible to request episodes to not guest on. Like, yeah, I would not. I've asked you to be on episodes that you flat out refused to be on and I didn't make you come in. So, yeah, you're good.
00:23:11
Speaker
The Ralph Bakshi Lord of the Rings is specific. Thank you for respecting my religion enough to. All right, so I've got the junior numbers. Junior opens, it feels weird to be doing this this early. We're at the end of the junior episode already, you guys. Wow, what an episode. Stop it. Junior opens the weekend of November 25th, 1994. It opens behind week three of the Santa Claus.
00:23:41
Speaker
week two of Star Trek Generations and week three of Interview with the Vampire the Vampire Chronicles. You guys, I was in middle school when Generations came out and I went to the theater with my communicator pin that made noise.
00:23:58
Speaker
And you tapped a movie. Proudly pinned to my chest. No, I would never do that. I would never break movie theater etiquette, even when I was a child. Respect. Oh, I talked to Brent Spiner today. That was cool, too. Word. Yeah. Well, I thanked him for whether he realized it or not. Positive. One of the first actually unintentionally autistic coded characters.
00:24:21
Speaker
and how he actually helped raise a lot of awareness, which he told me that Dr. Sacks, who did a lot of the early work on ASD, came into his trailer and told him that he was actually helping a lot of people, and this was in the infancy of autism research too, so. Another complete non-sequitur for which I apologize profusely. Hey, you're on the right show for it, man. I apologize here. You see the shirt, you name check Star Trek, so I was in.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah. For those not watching this podcast, which is literally all of you, Phil is wearing a red shirt that says red shirt in the Star Trek font with a big old Star Trek symbol in the middle. And underneath says, I might not make it. It's a wonderful shirt, and I applaud his wearing it. It is fantastic. Junior opens to $9.8 million. I love it. On its way to $36 million domestic, another $71.6. Oh, about $100. What was the budget?
00:25:21
Speaker
Uh, the budget is, I just closed the tab. Hang on. Crap a doodle. Gosh fucking darn it, Steven. No, the budget, um, shit, it doesn't, it's not listed, which is not good. Well, they've scrubbed it from the historical record. Yeah. Steven, if we can't count on you for the budget, who can we count on? Um, I don't know, man. You're our guy. I know.
00:25:49
Speaker
I can see if it- You have about four jobs, Steven. On Wikipedia. No, I'm just kidding. You're great, Steven. It's okay.
Philip K. Dick Stories in Film
00:26:00
Speaker
You had no fewer than four jobs and you couldn't even do three of them.
00:26:10
Speaker
Box. I'm going to hang on. Oh, man. Look, you guys normally I would say move on. But now we've gone so far. I need to know. So you don't. I know what you're up to. 60 million. 60 million. That's about. Well, yeah, it didn't do very well. No, it made its money back. Plus, you know, probably marketing. But you said the marketing was everywhere. So it's definitely not making back that marketing budget because they market out of that movie.
00:26:38
Speaker
at best they probably broke even yeah i'm gonna say yeah they probably spent i would say in those days you'd spend about half the budget not as part of the budget but half of what the budget is on marketing whereas today it's closer to like the full budget i think there's a bit a lot more there's more a lot more places regarding it now too yeah right
00:27:01
Speaker
Um, total recall based on a short story by the great Philip K. Dick called, we can remember it for you wholesale. Uh, has anyone read that short story? Because I'm not going to lie. I have never read Philip K. Dick. I had a Philip K. Dick phase in a high school and I read like every short story of his and I really loved them, but I haven't read any of them since. So I'm a fan, but I'm a lazy fan.
00:27:31
Speaker
I feel like Phil Phil's got a lot here unload. I'm the guest I'm trying not to know No, please do the best is supposed to do that The main reason that I took this guest thing when well when when Steven offered it to me Well, the main reason was because he asked and I usually don't say no to that because that's my dude boys Yeah, the second reason is
00:28:00
Speaker
gloriously cheesy 90s Arnold. And the third even though it was technically produced prior to 1990. So everything I said in that segment was factually wrong. The big big reason as and I guess I should say aspiring I don't think that Patreon counts as published cyberpunk author. Philip K Dick is basically one of the towering figures
00:28:26
Speaker
in sci-fi in general and a necessary precondition for cyberpunk.
00:28:32
Speaker
even though he was done writing and pretty much sadly almost done living before Cyberpunk became a thing, but would not have had that particular subset of speculative fiction without PKD's work. Incredibly important author, both in speculative fiction in general, and also exploration of reality like thematic elements that would become incredibly important moving into the 90s and beyond.
00:29:01
Speaker
And you guys have the same name. That's true. You're both Phil's. And depending on who you ask, we're both dicks. Oh, yeah. Hey, Phil, did you ever see that show on Amazon Prime called Electric Dreams? No, sadly. I'm aware of its existence. Do you know about it? I'm aware of it. If you're a Philip K. Dick guy, it's all it's an anthology series of just short stories. It's got like Twilight Zone or like Tales from the Crypt, but short stories by Phil Dick.
00:29:30
Speaker
And, uh, they're all fantastic. Um, some of them are kind of slow burns, but still, if you have the patience for them, they're really good. The episode with Janelle Monae is probably the best one she plays. I don't even want to give it away. I have prime. I'll check it out. Yeah. Yeah. Please check it out. Um, also, this is, I'm approaching my budget on non sequiturs, but there was a series called like titled blade runner.
00:29:59
Speaker
But it was basically like an amalgamation. You remember this like late 90s Canadian television? It was produced in Canada. It was an amalgamation of pretty much all PKD stuff. They tried to make one like overarching universe, like based on elements of his works and stuff. Wait, do you mean Total Recall 2070? No, no, no. 27. Is it a TV series? No, there's a TV series. Hang on. Yeah. Am I an idiot?
00:30:26
Speaker
No, Philly, you're right. I remember about it. Like I remember seeing the ads on TV. Or was the series titled Total Recall and I just...
00:30:33
Speaker
No, there's a total recall, but I'm pretty sure what you're talking about is a real thing. It is 2070. I apologize. Oh, crap. What did you think? I didn't think I'd gotten that deep into the jar yet, but no, I thought it was I thought it was I feel like there was a vibe in the back of my mind. I thought it was a blade. There are a lot of elements from do Android stream slash Blade Runner in it. Most of the aesthetic is owed to that. But total recall, because they're one of the big overarching plot
00:31:03
Speaker
Threads involves like a similar kind of anyway I'm rambling at this point, but they did try to make an entire overarching TV for TV Universe based on elements of PKD's works, and it was one of those Typical like end of the 90s things where it had like a cult following and got really popular But it was they always has always under the looming threat of cancellation and it ultimately didn't survive and
00:31:29
Speaker
It was probably a pretty expensive show to produce. At that point in the with the VFX they were trying to do on TV, like the budget was like more than they were willing to spend on Voyager at that point. So I think that's the main thing is it just did not make its budget
Paul Verhoeven's Style and Influence
00:31:47
Speaker
back. It didn't come close to being profitable and they just dropped it. Hey, Phil, what's your did you ever see imposter? What's your favorite Philip K. Dick adaptation, Phil? I want to know.
00:32:01
Speaker
I know what you're up to. Honestly, I'll come clean. I'm halfway up to that, but also I'm just excited to talk to someone else who has a boner for Philip K. Dick. Did that come out wrong or did that come out right? No, it came out right. And I know Brett does too, but we've never really gotten into the weeds about it. And you're so excited to talk about it. And yes, am I trying to steer the conversation away from Total Recall? Probably, but also I'm really interested in what you have to say. Look at relevant.
00:32:30
Speaker
This actually is relevant. Yeah, thank you. You know, one of the most culturally important PKD adaptations. What's that? The 1990 film Total Recall. Hey, okay. All right. You're welcome, Steven. I respect that. I would have gotten a speck around that. Did you see imposter, though? I did not. I did not, but that's kind of good as hell and made for a video kind of way. Even though it wasn't made for video, but
00:32:58
Speaker
had that vibe and it was really good at the same time. I don't remember it getting much of a theatrical run. I got it on DVD from the video store and I really dug it. It's pretty surface level, but it's still really well made and everybody acts their dicks off.
00:33:24
Speaker
Right on. Philip K. Dick's off. Yep. There it is.
00:33:29
Speaker
So to this point, this is the second Philip K. Dick adaptation, Total Recall. The first, of course, Blade Runner, which even I who enjoys this movie would say is the superior Philip K. Dick adaptation of those. More to come, and I'm sure we'll talk about at least one or two more of those as we get going here. But so at this point, Philip K. Dick, not someone who is widely
00:33:55
Speaker
adapted yet, not someone really heralded as much as he would later become.
00:34:02
Speaker
But in this, so there's a lot of liberty being taken. This was an idea, a story that Daniel Bannon wanted to adapt in the 70s. And he started working on it, but realized even then that the special effects budget was going to be too much for them to deal with. So he kind of like switched gears and started working on a little story about an alien that chases a bunch of people around a spaceship that came out in 1979. You might know it as Alien.
00:34:32
Speaker
Um, so yeah, this basically, yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty good. I would recommend it. Maybe check it out. It's, it's, it's called classic, right? Right. Yeah. Just, I have, I don't know if it has any, maybe we can cover it on this podcast. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Um, so yeah. Uh, anyway, um, so this is something he's kind of had long gestating and had very.
00:34:59
Speaker
very specific ideas about what it should be about and how it should go. The original conception that O'Bannon had was to make the Quaid or Quail as he was in the original script. And I think in the original story, I think we can chalk that one up to the Bush administration as to why his name is Quaid in this as opposed to Quail.
00:35:22
Speaker
because, you know, late 80s. He was the one was Dan Quayle, the guy people used to make fun of him for not being able to spell like tomato or something. Potato. Yeah. Same thing. Yeah. Indiana's Dan Quayle. Hey, a long line of vice presidents. The bar was actually higher back then, sadly. Yeah. Yeah. Back then, they're like, oh, this guy is dumb. You should at least shame him into getting smarter, right? Like we should at least do that.
00:35:52
Speaker
Right. I mean, little did we know that there would be politicians coming down the pipeline that were incapable of shame. Little did we know how good we had it in the 90s. Anyway, I'm almost through the jar.
00:36:10
Speaker
Damn it pull up Yeah, we gotta do the plot soon before he's too far gone, man. I'll probably join the plot cuz I forgot to tell him about it Oh, yeah, he didn't tell me cuz I usually write them when he tells me to You're the one who did for Street Fighter. Yeah, it was great. Yeah, I stopped in my inner John Machida and I cannot do that in the state I don't think no you're fine. I'll do it. I'll take the bullet on this one Thank You Steven
00:36:34
Speaker
that's it's only fair um i it's what it's what happened with brat when when he forgot to tell a guest about it so someone's listening now like who the hell is john raschita oh just google it just google it he's a fucking legend is a fucking legend is who he is um
00:36:53
Speaker
So what was I saying? Something about, oh, yeah. So the original conception in the script was to have the main characters kind of this dorky accountant. And the original casting was Rick Moranis, Patrick Swayze, weirdly enough. Anything. Close enough.
00:37:11
Speaker
Yeah, close enough, I guess he can basically the same person he can play it and Bruce Barrisford was signed on to direct Paul Verhoeven was actually supposed to be working on a film black rain and
00:37:26
Speaker
The rights to this script were tied up with Dino De Laurentiis, who actively did not want Arnold to do it, even though Arnold really wanted to. The De Laurentiis Corp goes bankrupt and Arnold convinces Karolko to buy the rights to total recall so that they could make it with him. And then he's the guy that seeks out Paul Verhoeven because he's wanted to work with Verhoeven since Robocop, basically.
00:37:53
Speaker
So so, yeah, so that's how Verhoeven comes on to this to this movie. At this point, Verhoeven, because I need to do we need to do a Verhoeven sidebar. We need to please. You know, what I what I appreciate about him is there's a short part in his career in the 90s and early 2000s that this film was a part of that to me is just. Of.
00:38:20
Speaker
one and then one and then what's the uh every other one that's the kind of thing i'm trying to say one for them one for me no like one that's really really good and one that just sucks really bad like so you've got like robocop then you've got this and then you've got fucking whatever and then you've got showgirls and then you've got uh starship troopers and then you've got fucking hauling
00:38:42
Speaker
Like it kind of, you know, it's some of the best and worst shit I've ever seen in that line of films. It's insane. Is it one for them, one for me? Or is it him just shifting the tone and direction of his commentary? That's possible, too. The one you missed, Tucker, is Basic Instinct. That's the one.
00:39:02
Speaker
another Sharon Stone vehicle. He said he liked Sharon Stone for this movie because she could basically go from really sweet to really awful on a dime. And of course, him being the guy that he is, he was like, and she's like that in real life too. And you're just like, wow. Wow, Paul, really?
00:39:22
Speaker
His first American film is Flesh Plus Blood, or I guess Flesh and Blood in 1985, a movie that five people have heard of. And then he does Robocop in 87, Robocop movie, fucking masterpiece. Total Recall, a bad movie. Great film. Yeah. Basic Instinct, which I haven't seen. Showgirls, a cult classic.
00:39:50
Speaker
with my boy Kyle McLaughlin. I will shout out my boy Kyle McLaughlin in that one. Starship Troopers, derided at the time, became a cult classic, got reappraised later, because it's secretly about Nazis. What? I didn't get that at the beginning. I was barely in high school when that came out, and I fucking got that.
00:40:13
Speaker
Who's not getting that movie? Well, there's a lot of people not getting it right now. Correct. I guess you're right. Yeah. Media literacy is not high on some people's to do. Yeah, right. Because we basically have Starship Troopers the game in the form of Helldivers and media literacy is I'm just going to say it interacting with the player base. Media literacy is dead. Well, I'll bet it's buried in a box with the labeled with the letter X. Yep. So thanks, Elon.
00:40:41
Speaker
Yeah, you bastard, you bastard, you crazy bastard. And then of course, Hollow Man, which is a bad movie. It is. I was trying to put a spin on it. It's not good. It's fun, but it's not it's not a well made movie. It just looks into being kind of fun at times because it's so stupid and ridiculous. Yeah, the stupidity is rather transparent.
00:41:04
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, damn, it's a slide whistle. If you're going to be on this podcast too much longer, I'm going to need a slide whistle. Go find your slide whistle. I think that's like one of the only things I don't have. Go get your shine box. Go get your fucking. Let me go through my synthesizer. My, my mini controllers on. We could find it. Uh, yeah. So for me, it's one, it's every other in that, like starting from RoboCop.
00:41:32
Speaker
It's like good movie, bad movie, good movie, bad movie. You can even start from, I mean, flesh and blood, not widely regarded as a good film. I've never seen that one. Well, then maybe you go watch that one. I've seen these other films. See if it applies to your theory. You got a slide whistle? Do what you got. What's that? Show and tell. But mostly tell because it's an auditory medium. Yeah, this is a purely auditory medium. Don't make me. Don't make me. It's a kazoo. That's fantastic.
00:42:01
Speaker
If you're wondering, how could anyone charge $20 for a kazoo? This one's actually pretty solid. Well, you could do the score to this film on it because, surprise, surprise, I didn't even realize I forgot. I have another good thing to say about this. The music is fantastic. Jerry motherfucking Goldsmith, bro. Yes.
00:42:21
Speaker
Yes, please. And thank you. Speaking of Star Trek, the next generation. Right. It's probably the only thing that kept me from. It was probably the only thing that kept me from putting my hand in the fire while watching this movie was the score. And I was just like, that is just fantastic. You just carry fire. Yeah, you know, it fires everywhere, dude. You got lighters all over the place.
00:42:44
Speaker
Goldsmith actually considers this one of his best scores, too. It's fucking good. It's great. Makes me really want to like it. It motivates me to like this movie and I still fucking can't. Thank you, Phil. You're doing the Lord's work.
00:43:02
Speaker
Phil looks like he's about ready to explode on the surface of Mars holding in all of the puns that are just like begging to like shoot out of his eyes like Ronny Cox's. I will have more to say about exploding on the surface of Mars when we get to that point. Don't let me forget. Hell yeah. Well, into that. I love that. So yeah, maximum nitpicking time. So Verhoeven comes on after the and this is his immediate follow up to as Tucker said, his immediate follow up to.
00:43:30
Speaker
The fuck movie, did we just say Robocop? That was so popular, yeah. You know the fuck movie. Also basic instincts. And also be described as the fuck movie. Correct. That's true if you're creative, Hollow Man. Fuck movie, I'd buy that for a dollar. Wouldn't we all? Please continue. I'm sorry.
00:43:57
Speaker
So yeah, and then this movie is made. It comes out and is successful. Let's do the plot before I lose myself in the music.
00:44:14
Speaker
So this is the part of the show, Plot in 60 Seconds, where we recount the plot of the movie that we're talking about in 60 seconds or less. When we have a guest, we usually like to throw it to them, but I did not tell Phil about it because I forgot. Oops.
00:44:30
Speaker
And yes, as being on the show before is no excuse. So I'm taking the normally we would either flip the coin of justice or roll the d6 of destiny. However, I'm taking I'm taking it for this one. So someone please put 60 seconds on the clock. Oh, shit. I should have done. I got you. I was I was just bamping for nothing.
00:44:50
Speaker
Oh, yeah, we're not used to it like you like I'm the dice and the keys are pretty good to me. So and generally pretty awful to me lately.
00:45:02
Speaker
all right i'm ready whenever you are all right let's do this thing uh it's 2084 and doug quaid is uh this guy on earth is a construction worker which is why he's huge he keeps dreaming about mars wants to go to mars his excruciatingly hot wife doesn't he sees an ad saying hey we can remember vacation you never had and so he goes to this place called recall and they're going to implant the memories and he chooses
00:45:25
Speaker
like he wants to be a secret agent and have a Burnett girlfriend and all this stuff. Next thing you know, it's failed because it kicks against a memory chip and he turns out he really was a secret agent. Or was he? And turns out there really was a hot Burnett girl that looks exactly like that girl in the picture. Or is it?
00:45:41
Speaker
And eventually he finds himself embroiled in a massive plot. Turns out he was tricking himself, and he's really working for the bad guys against the mutants that are living on Mars, including a lady with three boobies. They're all paper mache, don't worry about it. And anyway, so he eventually like thwarts the plan, he kicks co-hanging out of a window, chokes to death, and then it ends up terraforming Mars by mistake, the end. And it's probably a dream, he's probably lobotomized. You know, if I had done,
00:46:10
Speaker
the plot in 60 on this, for 60 seconds I would have just said, plot twist, chase scene. Plot twist, chase scene. Plot twist, chase scene. Plot twist, chase scene. But for 60 seconds though, not for like 15. Which is better than you just making 60 seconds of sustained fart noises with your mouth, I suppose. A little bit better. Not by much. Not much, to be clear. Is that a thing you do? No, I just- You take the meaty part of your palm, you wrap it around.
00:46:39
Speaker
I could just see Tucker legitimately doing that for a movie he dislikes. No way you said it. It sounded like he'd done that recently. No, I mean, Tucker head cannon is me doing that. I think I'm into that. I love that. It just it doesn't it doesn't strike me as being something outside of the ordinary of what you would do. Yeah, that's fair. I see that. Yes. As someone who is like self aware to a fault. Yes.
00:47:06
Speaker
I don't know if that would ever happen like if a movie is that bad you just Decide you don't want to record that episode. That's that's what you do there. I Guess but I thought we could have a lot of fun and like I wanted to meet Phil cuz the Street Fighter episode was rad So like oh, thank you So this movie falls into the category of one you would just make a fart noise for 60 seconds on it
00:47:29
Speaker
No, because I can think of something more clever, like because I could, you know, there's something more clever. Like I said, plot twist chase scene. That's that's more clever because that's essentially what this film is. And you had some redeeming things to say about it. So you didn't hate it completely. Yeah. It's no. What was my little pony? Oh, my little pony. Oh, and the motherfucking chipmunks. Yeah. Okay. Don't mention those motherfuckers around me anymore, man. The movie he flat out like the episode he flat out boycotted. That's I look.
00:47:57
Speaker
That one broke me, you guys. I haven't been the same since that one. But he enjoyed the Street Fighter episode. I did. It's OK. I get it. For you, the day that Filsi graced your podcast was the most never mind. We're not going to do that.
00:48:10
Speaker
But you were headed in the right direction, yes. For Phil, it was just a Tuesday. It's really what he's getting at. The late, great role, Julia. Maybe one out. Maybe live forever in our hearts. One out for the man. I fucking love that dude. Maybe Mamushka until the end of time and in heaven. You know, you know who I really would have loved to see in this movie? Raw mother fucking Julia. And Tim Curry. In which role?
00:48:37
Speaker
I could see, honestly, I think he would have killed the Michael Ironside role, honestly. I love Michael Ironside in this movie, but I think Raul Julia would have murdered that role, like he would have made it his little bitch. If we're talking about alternate universe remakes of this film, who's the human?
00:48:59
Speaker
Arnold. Still Arnold? Yeah. The Tim Curry School of believing he's treating himself as a fellow Muppet. And you mean in the post we had a major Muppet movie with a Muppet protagonist world that we live in, Steven? I don't know. It's quite hypothetical. Do what you like.
00:49:18
Speaker
Who's for me? For me, the Muppet is the main guy. That's the the teacher that ends up being the sergeant in Starship Troopers, the guy that's like the leader of the guys that are chasing him. My guy. Yes. Oh, we're talking about the same guy. That's what he said. Look at that. We just circled back to it. I love it when I fall stupidly into some shit that I don't realize that I'm falling into. I hope it gets to Mars. Yeah.
00:49:49
Speaker
That wasn't very good. It's fine. That's all right. We still appreciated it. Get your estimates. Yeah. That's my, I wouldn't be there. I was going to ask if there was a Fauzi. I didn't realize that was your Fauzi. It was so bad, Steven. Yeah. It's a topple. Anybody got a Ralph or a Skeeter or something? Geez. Excuse me. It's a message for you, Quaid. Co Hagen wants to talk to you.
00:50:19
Speaker
We get Dr. Teeth in there at some point, you know? That's the score. The score is the electric mayhem. Yes. Yeah. I would watch the hell out of it. I will already watch the hell out of it, but I would especially- Oh, this is the Swedish chef where I write. No, Swedish chef, yes. Absolutely. Okay. Who do we do? Is it Swedish chef or animal as the Johnny Cab? Oh. Anything to make it less annoying. Animal. Drive car! Drive car!
00:50:49
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I would watch a Muppet remake of this movie, for sure. Right on. For sure. So one of the things I legitimately enjoyed about this movie is that it just keeps getting more and more and more unhinged with every consecutive minute right up until the end. And I mean, the central question of this movie is, is he dreaming or is this real?
00:51:20
Speaker
And based solely on- And do I care? No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Yes, Brett, exactly. Queen and all over this bish. Like, is this real? Is this a dream? Whether or not you care is inconsequential. I know you don't, so- And others do, and I straight up respect that, but I thought it would be a good time to throw in a quip, just for fun.
00:51:48
Speaker
Am I going to start calling you out here? I'm not doing any of the things. We're having a positive. Everyone does. You have a list to the podcast I used to do. There was a list of things I wasn't allowed to say. I was. Do you have a list to? Well, I guess I just I made a list now. Yeah. The one we read at the beginning of the podcast. I think that's probably going to be my credo from this point on when it comes to recording this podcast. So I really think I kind of, you know, I summed it up to how I should be because I know how I can be.
00:52:18
Speaker
But I would rather be this way instead because it's more fun. I'm not getting mad. So let it be written. So shall it be done? Yeah. But I mean, so for me and I like.
00:52:33
Speaker
the just the build of it. I think it just gets absolutely wacky as shit by the end. So where you've got like, your three main characters on the surface of Mars, like with their heads expanding with some incredible Rob Boteen makeup effects, just like eyes bulging and Brett not a fan. Look, look, they're way too long.
00:52:57
Speaker
And they're well done, but they're just unnecessarily gross. I don't want to look at it. I mean, this is the man who gave us the thing. I get that. And that was all fantastic. But this is just, it's too...
00:53:12
Speaker
much. It's too gross. It's too ugly to look at. Like it's fantastic. It looks like it looks technically as in looking at it as, you know, a technical feat. Fanfuckingtastic. I can't believe they did some of the shit that they did. Making the little mutant guy's mouth move like that. That's fucking fantastic. But I could hardly stand to look at the motherfucker.
00:53:30
Speaker
Oh, fucking Quado is fantastic. And not only is that disgusting wandered in the plot, but the uncanny valley of the fake head of dude that's holding him. It's just this movie. It just makes me feel gross. You guys, I wish I liked this movie. You guys, I wish I could like this movie, but it just makes me feel gross.
00:53:50
Speaker
I will say we could have an entire segment devoted to whether or not PKD would have liked this adaptation, but I think what you describe the progressively getting more and more unhinged and surreal is thematically and tonally essential PKD. Right. So he probably wouldn't have liked the adaptation. I mean, he wasn't Harlan Ellison nitpicky, but he was legendarily nitpicky. He was no Alan Moore.
00:54:16
Speaker
But I do think thematically that progression is thematically and tonally perfect for describing like any kind of PKD narrative. I don't know. When do you go? I lost my train. Out with it, Steven. I had that effect on people. I had it. It's gone now. The train pulled away from the station and I wasn't on it.
00:54:42
Speaker
Well, it's okay. So then it's been a while since I've read PKD. So bear with me, but I feel like yes, it, the story is escalating craziness, but like it never.
00:54:52
Speaker
He never crosses the line. He never goes off the ledge. He walks up to it, but it never goes off the ledge. And I feel like this movie, that last scene, it's just too much. It's too much. You think it goes too far? It goes too far. No, I think you're probably right. He never cranks it to 11. Yeah. But...
00:55:17
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, I might it might be safer to describe it as the logical conclusion of a PKD type trajectory, even if it takes a little bit farther than he would have. It that's what I call the Verhoeven effect, like, and that's the kind of filmmaker Verhoeven is. He's the kind of I mean, look, we just went through his like the American section of his filmography. He's the kind of guy who doesn't leave anything on the table.
00:55:44
Speaker
like he's like the sex that he depicts in like showgirls and basic instincts he's like i don't know why people are like getting on me that's what sex looks like and i'm like there's my brother in christ have you had sex because i'm not sure there's nothing there's nothing subtle about a vierhoven movie no at all and like the violence is like i don't get it sometimes this is it's right there
00:56:11
Speaker
As an idiot teenager, I understood that movie. That quote was stupid then. That quote, I don't know. I think it's supposedly an apocryphal quote about his goal being to make a film so obvious in the satire that everyone who gets it is tormented by the people who don't. I don't know if he actually said that or if that's just attributed to him, but it works.
00:56:30
Speaker
mission accomplished. Right. Certainly worked in Robocop. For good or for ill mission accomplished. But I mean, and so again, that that's very that that the over the edge, the crossing the line, Brett, that you talked about, I feel like that's the Verhoeven influence on this film. That's fair. Because that feels like something that he would bring to the table. And O'Bannon was famously
00:56:52
Speaker
never liked the ending of this movie. In fact, I think it's the thing that like drove him off the set and like kind of made him distance himself from the project was real dumb, was the ending. According to a Cinefantastique interview in 91, his concept was that the hand on the machine at the end was not a big Martian hand, but specifically designed for Quaid.
00:57:22
Speaker
And like he was the one that like set it up and the machine when he tried to use it killed him and created a synthetic duplicate. And so the Quaid that we see is the synthetic duplicate of Quaid.
00:57:37
Speaker
And that's why he can't be killed and all this other stuff. And so he basically abandons ideas to just remove any ambiguity from the ending at all and just spell it out for you. So when he puts his hand on the machine, he has a total recall of who he is and turns to everyone else and says, oh, I think it's going to be fun to play God for a while.
00:58:03
Speaker
And just, you know, like becomes a power, mad, crazy person, which feels very un-PKD, but I don't have the knowledge to back that up. So he was going a sixth day before sixth day, basically. Yeah. God, sixth movie. Is it a movie? It's fun. Is it? So I think this is a fun movie. It's really dumb, but like I'm into it.
00:58:29
Speaker
It's not aggressive in any way. This movie is aggressive. Where do you line just out of curiosity? It's no fixed point. There's no fixed point. No, it jumps. It depends on the context and like there's so many factors. Since this is not a visual medium, I am staring into my webcam with the most skepticism I can summon. That's true. This is like a meme shot right here. This should be the meme picture for that emotion.
00:58:57
Speaker
Yeah, it really, yeah, he expressed it very well. This this this is this is Tucker. Yeah. Hi. My taste does not make sense at all. It's pressing expert doubt so hard right now. Contradictory. My tastes are contradictory. Actually hit my keyboard because who knows what I would do at this point. Right. That's fair. But yeah, mechanical. So it would definitely disrupt the recall. Oh, we know it's mechanical. We've been hearing it every time you tap in the chat. Oh.
00:59:25
Speaker
It's my ears and I could edit it out, but I'm not gonna because people love that. It's like ASMR. People love that fucking sound. You're good, dude.
00:59:35
Speaker
You're good. So more, please, actually. If you could do it more. Somebody that I don't know terribly well a couple of years ago decided to just ask me to my face after finding out I got divorced. Like, what happened? And I didn't. They neither merited the full story, nor did I want to go into it. So I just like, well, I got a mechanical keyboard and my computer was in the bedroom and just left it. They don't need to know. And hey, that's at least entertaining.
01:00:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's a fun story. That is. It's probably happened to someone, I'm sure. Oh, without a doubt. It was at least a last straw to someone, probably. Honestly, I think that should just be the story we all stick with from going on going forward. What happened to that mechanical keyboard in the bedroom? So I had a nickel. I had two nickels, which is where it happened twice. It's happened twice.
01:00:34
Speaker
We're all rushing to the same place. I love that for us. I think my Doofenshmirtz clipped out a bit there. Oh, you're good, dude. No, it's golden. But no, I don't know. I don't like the O'Bannon ending, but I think the ending is the weakest part of this film. I will absolutely say it. I agree. It goes on a little too long. It also makes absolutely no sense.
01:00:58
Speaker
Can I plant a flag real quick? By all means. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. I apologize. It's okay. I do it all the time. The escalation that we were describing a few moments ago, the escalation of unhinged, I would plant a flag and say there is no ending that would have been fully satisfactory to this film at that point. I mean, everything blows up.
01:01:22
Speaker
Yeah. But I mean, if you wanted to make it satisfactory, you'd end up with like a Blade Runner situation where you have like 30 different cuts of the film floating around because there is no one ending that would satisfy everyone. And that's always the case anyway. But there's no one ending that would satisfy a plurality of viewers in this case. Now, look, you guys look like a group of dudes who have seen Blade Runner, which
01:01:48
Speaker
Which one, which cut should I watch? Very astute of you, sir. Thank you, thank you, thank you. That's an accurate statement. Exactly what are you implying, good sir? Well, yes, I have. Like, I've always wanted to watch Blade Runner, obviously, because the Philip K. Dick, you know, connection. But ever since I've been aware of it, there have been multiple cuts of it. Final cut. And I don't want to watch the wrong one. So final cut, that's the one. Final cut's the one. Can everyone agree on this?
01:02:18
Speaker
You know how people tell you to aggregate news sources so you can, like, cancel out the bias? Yeah. Just watch them all. Watch them all. I don't want them, man. That sounds like a lot of, like, I don't like one of them. Then I waste it. I'm sure it would be agonizing. I certainly haven't done that, nor would I want to, but someone's got to take one for the team. I mean, if you've got the time and the desire, sure, do that. But I agree with Steven. Final cut would be the best one. I'd rather start with the most recommended. And if I like it a shit ton, I might explore the other cuts, is all I'm saying.
01:02:48
Speaker
The monologue was not constructive. No. Agreed. They just didn't trust audiences. That's why that's there. They didn't trust audiences. And there's so much else in there that shows that they trusted audiences to keep up with so many other things, but not that. Come on. But that's the theatrical. So.
01:03:11
Speaker
I mean, that's the year that we got Blade Runner, The Thing, and E.T. in the same summer. And audiences spoke with their dollar. What is the canon of the sequel? I have not seen it, so I cannot speak to that. So there's a sequel, right? And there's several different cuts. Which one is that the sequel to directly? Because I'm assuming they have different endings and stuff.
01:03:41
Speaker
I am, I don't know, again, I've not seen it, so I can't speak to that. All right. Because I might want to check out the sequel, too. I've heard it's good. There's a line, I have also heard that. There's a line between, I think, Blade Runner and Total Recall, in that both are films where the ending, I think, is intentionally ambiguous. In Blade Runner, well, I won't give it away for Blade Runner, but these don't. People who've seen it should know. Final cut, though.
01:04:09
Speaker
And they get remakes decades down the line that are wildly thematically and tonally inconsistent with the originals. Sure. But also, the director is very outspoken as to which interpretation he subscribes to. And for this one, Verhoeven, even though he wanted to make it intentionally ambiguous,
01:04:31
Speaker
The fade to white at the end is basically him saying this is basically since he went under at recall at the 20 minute mark until now has all been a dream and the white is him being lobotomized in the real world.
01:04:44
Speaker
Like that's the that's kind of what he's saying with that. But again, that's another way for him to kind of keep things ambiguous rather than like just spelling it out. He but he again, he'll he's like, he's David lynching it like this is what I think but well Lynch wouldn't even tell you that but he's like this is what I think but you know, you can think whatever you want.
01:05:06
Speaker
Whereas Ridley Scott is pretty didactic about what ending he thinks is the right one for Blade Runner. Yeah, that's fair. That is a very good point. Well, if that's the case, then let me ask you the ultimate question for this podcast. Why would it have ever gotten this equal then?
01:05:22
Speaker
Because dollar signs, Brett, dollar signs. Oh, it did make some money. It did make some money. It did very well at the box office. So basically, the sequel was going to be based on another Philip K Dick novel called let me check my notes here. Minority Report ever heard of it.
01:05:43
Speaker
Oh, wait a minute. I think I've heard of that. Yeah. Yeah. That's one I can say to people and they'll be like, oh, that Philip K. Dick. Yes. That one. That's the one right there. Another one. Adaptation. Very good adaptation, but very distinct. Yes. Yeah. Adaptation. So that one was supposed to Schwarzenegger was supposed to return as Quaid and all of the events of this movie turns out they actually happened.
01:06:09
Speaker
And basically kind of ruins the ambiguity of the ending a little bit. I mean, the people that got to sit with the ending before they saw the sequel, like they still have that time that they spent with it. Right. It's not a total wash. No. So, yeah, he wants that. But but basically he would be playing the Tom Cruise role in the
01:06:31
Speaker
the film, he's working for the branch that does the pre-crime and has a whole adventure streaming off of that. Ultimately, they couldn't get the script right. Carol co-went bankrupt and eventually they just retooled it and Steven Spielberg said, hey, I want to do that one and we get 12 years later. I'm glad he did. We get minority report with Tom Cruise. Agreed. That one's, it's fun. It's pretty popcorn, but it's also pretty fun. It's a good one.
01:07:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Can I say what stood out to me the most about the ending of this film? Please specifically asking you. It was when the credits came on.
01:07:16
Speaker
and I just turned the movie off. And here's the thing, you guys know this about me. Everybody who listens to this podcast, Brett, Steven, you know this about me. I watch the credits to every movie.
01:07:35
Speaker
Like I will sit, whether I'm at the movie theater, whether I'm sitting at home, watching something on streaming. It seems like this might be on its way to a manic fit. I'm going to keep my ear out for it. Okay. Thank you for warning me that I might get there. I will try to dial it back while I continue. And because of that, I completely forgot what I was talking about. Oh yeah, the ending. I always watch the credits. Always. No matter what format, no matter where I am. But this one, I was just so frustrated with it.
01:08:05
Speaker
that I was just like, fuck all these people that made this movie. I say that jokingly, of course. I hope that they all have great lives and like they made a lot of money and shit and like, yay, good for them. But yeah, I just didn't watch the credits. I couldn't believe it myself. When I turned it off, I was like, I gasped. I was shocked. Yeah, it was wild. You have such reverence for like, you know, I do.
01:08:30
Speaker
I believe my 12, my 12 year old daughter would describe the situation by saying, sis was gagged. Pretty much. I don't know what that means. But I'm not right. I don't either just let's just go with it. We're just throwing things. I don't understand the Utes. Street use.
01:08:56
Speaker
ruffians no good nicks um sweet rats right but i mean yeah so no but i agree no i think the ending is probably the weakest part of this movie but i love the buildup i love the cast on this thing like the cast is just a veritable smorgasbord of character actors
01:09:16
Speaker
From Robert Costanzo to Debbie Ann Carrington, just an unbelievable swath of early 90s, late 80s character actors. And I am here for that. I love so many of these actors. It is a fantastic cast. But for me, at least, in my opinion, nobody was
01:09:40
Speaker
giving any kind of performance in this film, except for Sharon Stone seemed to be kind of there. And Arnold's performance is just basically like Verhoeven being like, OK, Arnold, in between your dialogue, I want you to make like the most disgusting guttural noises possible. I feel like this is the movie where that came from.
01:10:05
Speaker
Pretty much all the time. Everybody does an impression of Arnold. It's because of the noises he makes. Oh, my God. I'm pretty sure. Gag me with a spoon. Steven, who said when at one point we were trading Arnold impressions. And I said that someone's Arnold impression was about 80 percent accurate. And he said Arnold's is only about 60 percent accurate. So there you go. It's true. It's true. It's sort of that like no one's ever heard. No one's ever doing a William Shatner impression.
01:10:34
Speaker
They're exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Sorry. No, you're good. Like I there are like two other actors from twins that carry over to this movie, which I thought was hilarious. The guy that plays Quado. He was the assassin.
01:10:50
Speaker
that or the killer for hire, the guy who was supposed to take the engine. And then Rosemary Dunsmore, who plays the the stupid bitch doctor. Stupid bitch. She was also in in twins as I think she was one of the artists at the artist colony.
01:11:10
Speaker
For me, this was more of a Verhoeven cast fest because this is basically just the cast of Robocop and the cast of Starship Troopers smashed together. Mm hmm. That's this movie with with also, you know, Sharon Stone pre-basic ins. Yeah. Yeah. You've also got the dead Sharon Stone. Ronnie Cox in this movie. Oh.
01:11:34
Speaker
who his other great 1990 film, a future episode of this podcast. In fact, one I believe are going to be covering
01:11:42
Speaker
Yeah, sometime next year. Yeah, it is. He did it this noble. He was also in the in 1990, he played the president of the United States on a little movie called Captain America. That's the one that's starring one Matt Salinger, son of J.D. Salinger. He's all I think for me, he's most familiar from Robocop, though, like I've seen him in other shit, but like that's your memory, but probably because of the bad
01:12:10
Speaker
with the arms and the clay figure, like, it sears his face into your mind from that movie. It's basically they're doing with him, they're doing the Hans Gruber a year before Hans Gruber in that movie. He's also in Beverly Hills. I love that movie, but oh, I like that movie a lot. That's one of my favorite movies ever, you guys.
01:12:32
Speaker
The fourth one's coming out this summer, dude. And all it has to do is be better than the third one. That's all I need. That's all I need. Because the third one sucked. The first two were masterpieces. Just give me something better than the third one, please. Yeah. Please, Eddie Murphy. I love you. Please. I don't know who's directing it, but it's got to be someone better. Yeah. Phil just wrote stupid bitch juice on his water bottle and held it up to the camera.
01:12:57
Speaker
Phil just full of visual bits this episode. That's so useful for the medium.
Actors and Humorous Commentary
01:13:04
Speaker
I'm sorry. He's also in Deliverance. I don't know if anyone's seen Deliverance, but Ronnie Cox also in Deliverance. Yes, he is. And then you've got Joe Dante regular, Robert Picardo as Johnny Cab.
01:13:18
Speaker
both the voice and physical model for- I hate Johnny Cab, but I love Robert Picardo. Robert Picardo, so great. I mean, between him and Robert Costanzo in this movie, we've got two incredible Roberts. Robert Costanzo, who David Sims on the Blank Check podcast referred to as an egg rolled across the floor of a barber shop. It's so accurate.
01:13:47
Speaker
Truly some of the greatest pros of that generation. That's what I call film criticism. No, a T-shirt. Jeez Louise. Her fucking faction. That's why. And then, of course, the most indelible image of this movie is Mary, played by Leisha Naff, the three booby hooker.
01:14:10
Speaker
Who is immediately murdered? Right. Right before a group of civilians are just ruthlessly gunned down. Yep. This movie makes me upset sometimes. And like I get that I get what Vir Hovind is trying to do. I get it because I've seen RoboCop. I've seen Starship Troopers and he can do it in a way that that I'm OK with. But the way he does it in this movie, I'm just not OK. It's just.
01:14:35
Speaker
Like like I say, I'm glad you guys like it, but it just feels mean spirited to me and I just don't it doesn't sit well with me. It just makes me uncomfortable.
Violence and Practical Effects in Film
01:14:42
Speaker
Is it the fantastical notion of a world in which innocent civilians are mercilessly gunned down at the behest of corporations without reprisal? No, it's the fact that I have to see it in in such a nasty way, like make it fun. You know, like I said, Robocop, I've seen Robocop, I've seen Starship Troopers like he can do it in a way that I like it. This just isn't.
01:15:05
Speaker
It's not my vibe, not my vibe. Me and Vierhoven, we share a lot of likes, but like on this one, it's all the stuff we don't agree on is this movie. Yeah. This was too real? It's just, I don't know, man. It just... Given the tiny sense of reality, too real sounds like a weird descriptor, but... Like depending on the tone of the film, that shit can really bum me out. Like for real, for real, for real. Mm-hmm.
01:15:32
Speaker
like seeing a child in danger in a movie for real like you know that shit will like ruin my whole fucking day and like some of the violence in this just just rubbed me the wrong way and like it's it's valid that you guys like it for sure but it just hits me in a different way that I just can't I can't get with
01:15:52
Speaker
I mean, I dig that this is one of the last movies to really lean into the practical effects. I mean, there's bare bones CGI used really just for the skeleton stuff. And they look fantastic. They're just ugly. It's gross to look at. And that's okay if you like learn how to
01:16:16
Speaker
pace what you're showing and how you're showing it but to just just sit a camera on like this ugly ass thing for like 30 seconds while it's writhing and like pulsating it's just it's just a lot and like I see you know I started out as a horror boy like not a lot gets to me but something about this movie man I just yeah sometimes the body horror just hits
01:16:40
Speaker
Yeah, and I love me some Cronenberg, but this shit, fuck off. The effects for this movie were so good, there were no other nominees. Yes, give them the fucking Oscar for sure. At the Oscars for Best Visual Effects, it just went to total recall. They had runners up, but it's like a special achievement Oscar rather than an actual visual effects Oscar.
01:17:08
Speaker
We like to call, nowadays we like to call that a return of the king. Just take it. Yeah. This to me has probably the best practical effects that I've seen outside of Little Shop of Horrors. So yeah, there's no reason to nominate anybody in any year.
01:17:28
Speaker
Right. You know, we just give up every year. Can I do my spiel about practical effects? By all means. We all agree on practical effects. Oh, okay. I've said this before, I don't think on here, but I think one of the biggest measures of a film's excellence in visual effects, especially practical effects, especially in that decade, the 90s, right around the turn of the millennium,
01:17:51
Speaker
is not the quality of the effects themselves, but the way in which they are executed in terms of shot composition, lighting and editing. And I think the reason that this one lands so well, as gross as it is, and I'm sure that's a factor too, is that if you look at the way the effect shots are lit,
01:18:14
Speaker
If you look at the editing, the angles of cinematography, these sequences are shot in such a way that it absolutely minimizes the weaknesses of those particular practical effect techniques. The Jurassic parked it basically, the original one.
01:18:35
Speaker
It's it's about how the effect shot is done. And more importantly, I would say, and I like to call this the Lord of the Rings trilogy versus prequel trilogy dichotomy, whether the effect shots serve the storytelling or the storytelling is forced to serve the effect shots. And I think that that's why they land. I have a rant about that scene, the decompression sequence, but I can pocket that for now if it is not the right time.
01:19:05
Speaker
Oh no, go for it. I did have one more thing to say about the effects though. I just wanted to mention that me being completely disgusted by those effects, like even though it makes me not enjoy watching this movie, it's a compliment to the people who did the effects because if you're making this dude uncomfortable, you're doing something right. Like just thinking about the shit that's in this movie just makes me squeamish.
01:19:33
Speaker
That's a Rob Boteen special, my friend. It's gross in it's gross in a weird way. Mm hmm. Which like if you if you make that combination perfect, it's fucking disgusting. And they really nail it in this movie. It really fucking nail it. So kudos to them for sure. Weird gross maximizes it combines the disgust with surprise. So anyway, I'm sorry.
Scientific Accuracy in Decompression Scenes
01:20:01
Speaker
Soapbox.
01:20:03
Speaker
the Martian atmosphere does not have a high enough pressure gradient to normal human like Earth atmosphere to cause the kind of deformation of soft tissue that you see in that sequence.
01:20:24
Speaker
Even hard vacuum, and granted, I don't remember the density of the Martian atmosphere, but it's a tiny fraction of ours, obviously, but it's dummy thick compared to vacuum. But even in hard vacuum, a person wouldn't do that. And I know explosive decompression is one of those tropes that is done so often that as the TV Tropes page is titled, reality is unrealistic.
01:20:56
Speaker
Don't get me wrong, because we have a lot of data on this, explosive decompression in space is certainly unpleasant and not particularly survivable, but it's not quite as cinematic as you get in films like this. Anyway, sorry.
01:21:17
Speaker
based on what you're saying that makes me think of like when I was watching it like it goes on for so long and they get into such a state to where like yes you feel like they're about to explode but like isn't stuff like exploding inside of them to get them to that point how do they you can't recover from that
01:21:36
Speaker
Well, yeah, what would kill you? Well, obviously, hypoxia would be the main thing that kills you. But beyond that, the pressure gradient would cause tremendous damage to your soft tissues. The pressure gradient would obviously cause the nitrogen in your blood to come out of suspension, and it would cause your blood to literally boil. And the internal damage from that would kill you.
01:21:59
Speaker
Um, the human, um, human skin is actually pretty good at holding all of your, all of your bits in place where they are. The only, where you tend to see any kind of catastrophic deformation like that is in decompression incidents coming from many times earth's atmosphere to normal atmospheric pressure, like the infamous Bifur dolphin incident or other instances of like deep sea, um, divers or like deep sea environment suddenly decompressing.
01:22:29
Speaker
Going from yeah atmosphere to vacuum like gravity I've complained about that film a lot and it certainly takes a lot of license with a lot of things But gravity is one of the I won't say it's accurate But it's one of the least offensive in in this sense and it's portrayal Or George Clooney
01:22:49
Speaker
Yeah, but, um, yeah, decompression is certainly like it's horrible. You could still sell a sequence on how horrible it is. Um, but, um, it's not quite as spectacularly horror movie cinematic as depicted there. And what also makes that sequence so horrifying is the screaming, which you also wouldn't get because there's not enough of a medium to oscillate. Yeah. Um,
01:23:19
Speaker
It's unsettling just because I am that much of a nerd, but again, given the explanation that Verhoeven gave in his interpretation, if it's actually happening inside of someone's head, then it is internally consistent. Because if that's what he thinks it looks like and sounds like when it happens, then there's no reason for it not to be. It's a case where verisimilitude supersedes factuality.
01:23:48
Speaker
but I still don't have to like it. We want to thank our special guest Neil deGrasse Tyson for being on this episode. No, hold on. Don't insult Phil like that. Yeah, no, don't, because I was going to come with that same complaint.
01:24:02
Speaker
I feel like maybe this was I don't know. I don't know if this is accurate Maybe one of the first films to do this myth and like make it a big deal because I hate this myth It's yeah, but I will say if anybody's seen The Expanse I think The Expanse does it very well The Expanse TV show yes TV show should I watch that show Brett should I watch that show? I think it's great. I'll put on my list
01:24:32
Speaker
Yeah. That's enough for me. People explode in space into it. I mean, no, they don't explode. Like they, they, you know what I mean? Well, yeah, it's, it's, it's slow and you can tell it's painful and there's little bits of blood, but like, it's not. I'm looking now at like examples. Um, and they got it pretty much right. Pretty much spot on in 2001.
01:25:00
Speaker
where almost nothing happens to Dave. Obviously, it's not great, but nothing happens, and Event Horizon kind of gets it right too. We like that one around here. Yeah. Well, Steven doesn't. Well, I was going to say two thirds of us do, but yeah.
01:25:23
Speaker
Yeah. I'm sorry, Tucker. I forgot that only your opinion on film matters, not anyone else's. Obviously. Obviously.
01:25:36
Speaker
Okay, there it is 600 okay the pressure at the surface of my hang on I gotta adjust my prosthetic to do there you go The mean atmospheric pressure at the surface of Mars is 600 Pascals Human beings are used to 101 kilo Pascals if that if that explains anything so 101,000 300 Pascals and English doc
01:26:09
Speaker
That is a hundred and sixty nine times greater pressure than the surface of Mars. So it's not like there isn't a significant gradient, but it's still not quite hard vacuum. So, yeah, I don't I don't know if that change that probably doesn't change anything, but yeah. You used a lot of big words with confidence, so I trust everything that you said. You said a whole lot just now, Phil.
01:26:39
Speaker
Yeah. You sounded very smart, so I trust that you know what you're talking about. Those were words that you used, and we all heard them. You convinced me. You convinced me. Did we understand them? Hell no, but we heard them. Not really. Yeah. They definitely. I understood a lot of them, but it's fine. I'll be over here. Check
Subjective Perception of Reality in Films
01:26:57
Speaker
out the big brain on Brett. Congratulations. That's all I have on that.
01:27:06
Speaker
Now, Steven, how long have you had that locked and loaded? If I may ask. We've just used it before. I have. Okay. I feel like he just kind of waits around that corner to pounce any time to do that, honestly. Seems like a very Steven thing to do.
01:27:21
Speaker
I mean, look, when the inspiration strikes, you just lean into it. That's really what it is. And that's drastically. Yes. That's comedy, man. You just that's what you do. You commit to the bit, even if it's a bit, even if it's wrong. You just commit. Look, I've been shotgunning today. Yeah. Yeah. Phil straight up chugging that stupid bitch juice wired arrest. I'm keeping this bottle.
01:27:47
Speaker
Good. I want you to display it proudly. You could probably 3D print yourself a cup with stupid bitch juice on it. Send it to us and we'll all autograph it and you autograph it as well. And then you put it up on your shelf and you'll be like, what the fuck? People will be like, what the fuck's that? You'd be like, it's it's a really long story. That's my stupid bitch juice. I love it. I love it. Speaking of stupid bitch juice, does anyone else have anything else to say about total recall? Negative.
01:28:18
Speaker
I just talked a lot. So going back to the ambiguity, going back to the did it happen or didn't it happen, controversial
01:28:35
Speaker
Controversial thesis on most instances of this, from this all the way through to inception, like did it actually happen or did it not happen? Controversial, especially in the context of this, in the context of like PKD, doesn't matter.
01:28:51
Speaker
It doesn't matter if it's real or not, because to the person experiencing it, they can't tell the distinction. And if that style of storytelling is intended to be locked from their perspective, then there is no meaningful distinction. And obviously that's not every situation like that, but situations where you are clearly supposed to be looking from one person's perspective at that time and not an external one.
01:29:20
Speaker
I don't think that there is a meaningful distinction between it all being a dream or it being reality, unless you're looking for a sequel hook, like we said earlier. Right. And I mean, I definitely agree with. I think you can see it either way.
01:29:34
Speaker
Depending on your particular outlook. I I happen to agree with Verhoeven Particularly on this rewatch. I caught a lot of things like the when he's handed the the chip he reads it goes Oh, hey, here's a new one blue sky on Mars. That's exactly what we see at the end of that's like the way the movie ends Talks about reality coming crashing down and then like so many walls get broken down after that like we start and and that's again when the movie starts to go
01:30:02
Speaker
full on unhinged with the alien subplot and all this. So like, there's enough pieces in there that I definitely see it. But you can absolutely read all this as these are these people trying to fuck with him still further. To me, it makes sense with the way the rest of the plot moves forward, whether whether you like it or you don't like it, the plot kind of has a rhythm to it.
01:30:26
Speaker
and of course by the time you get to the end of it of course it's all fucking dream like have you been paying attention the whole time like it just keeps ramping up so the next obvious thing is that like none of this fucking matters you know yeah I don't think you can appreciate
Philip K. Dick's Life and Influence on Storytelling
01:30:44
Speaker
Sorry if that sounded like too critic hat, but I don't know if I can appreciate contextually any PKD story directly or in adaptation outside of the context of who the man was and his struggles, his often simultaneous struggles with psychedelics and with paranoid schizophrenia. So I think that- That's a bad combination.
01:31:05
Speaker
If that doesn't color how you watch the movie, I don't know if you're going to come away. I don't, again, I don't like subscribe to theory that there's an accurate interpretation. No, it's your take. I get it. Yeah. It's subjective. But I think that your interpretation ideally should be at least in some extent informed by and understood by at least an awareness of that.
01:31:32
Speaker
that the nature of reality to PKD is very diaphanous and very shifting. I've never been biographically familiar with Phil Dick.
01:31:42
Speaker
I've been a fan of his work. I don't know shit about the guy. So maybe with that context, I would see this movie differently. I don't know if that's going to motivate me to watch it again, but if I do watch it again, that's definitely something that I will for sure keep in mind. I have said several times there needs to be a PKD biopic. Please. I don't know who you'd cast, but there's enough people with the chops to do it.
01:32:06
Speaker
like I already love his shit. And if I can love his shit more by understanding who he was, I'm all into that way. We've already had so many biopics of scientists, mathematicians and artists that explore their work from the perspective of their mental state and emotional state. And I think he would be one of the most perfect subjects for that kind of a film. Based on the picture in that Wikipedia article, I'm gonna go with Dane DeHaan.
01:32:33
Speaker
as Philip K. Dick. Wait, I want to see what he looked like. What's this motherfucker look like? Do we have a clip? Yeah, I like you. We're friends. Was I looking up? You completely distracted me. Philip K. Dick. Oh, yeah. Then the actor that I'm suggesting to play him is Dane DeHaan. OK, Philip K. Dick to me. OK, looking at this, maybe a Bill Skarsgard, honestly, like that's not what I want to say, but that.
01:33:01
Speaker
Look at the nose and the eyes, even the mouth, those lips, the bottom lip, especially. You see what I'm thinking, but but I could definitely see a scars guard. You'd have to be hello method. Yeah, well, it's guard absolutely would be. Yeah. It'd be one of those like dangerous method rolls. Mm hmm. Yeah. Keep Jared Leto the fuck away from this. Right.
01:33:27
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe what's the other kid? The the one that was in We're the Millers and he's in the bear will will pollter will pull it off. Yes. I like he's got a similar face. Yeah. I liked him in the bear. Like, damn, fuck. He's got the chops for it, I think. Oh, great. Your episode of what are we watching? We're going to talk about the bear. It's complicated. So that's cool.
01:33:53
Speaker
Anyway, yeah, Philip K. Dick biopic needs to happen. I don't know who you'd have to make that, but. It has to be someone who understands the themes and understands, yeah, the somebody that you're struggling with, not Lynch, because that's going to become. That's the problem. Lynch would never be able to get that funded. No one wants to make David Lynch movies anymore. Tragically, man hasn't made a movie since 2010.
01:34:23
Speaker
What if you go with Joe Johnston? I'm gonna say Terry Gilliam. Nah, he's done. He's behind him. He's like Argento. Yeah, like it's not nothing's gonna be good at this point from Gilliam. Wait for it. Wes Anderson's Philip K. Dick. No.
01:34:48
Speaker
the fuck out wait wait wait wait look if he was yeah look if he's willing to like pretty much put his entire aesthetic aside and make something outside of his comfort zone give me something closer to bottle rocket hmm yeah cuz I can see that like because actually yeah if you do a Philip K dick
01:35:15
Speaker
biopic in the style of Wes Anderson's first film? Yeah, I'd watch that. After that, nah. No. Fair. No. Hot take, but you know, it is mine. Brett, thoughts on the Philip K. Dick biopic that we're apparently just, you know, casting. We're casting, we're hiring directors, man.
Box Office and Financial Success of 'Total Recall'
01:35:36
Speaker
Somebody gets somebody on the phone for costumes. We're apparently the production team for this movie.
01:35:41
Speaker
The braid dress. You know, this is outside of my wheelhouse. Fair enough. All right. All right. Well, in that case, total recall opened June 1st, 1998, opened at number one at the box office to twenty five point five million dollars in second.
01:36:06
Speaker
That's a lot of million dollars. It is indeed in second place at the box office, a little movie that Brett and I Stan, I actually shared this hot take at work this past week and got a lot of weird looks. Back to the Future Part Three. Hey, add me to that. Like, we're a team, you guys. And I also love that movie, except I really hate the ending, but it doesn't ruin the movie for me.
01:36:28
Speaker
Three better than two. This is the stance that Brett and I have taken. No. OK. Can I officially put my vote in for the Redux episode? There's no Redux episode. Patreon episode. Unenfranchised. Back to Future 3. Let's do it, boys. Oh, fuck yeah. Next week. Do it. Not next week. Calm the fuck down. I'm excited. Can Phil come too? Hang on, sorry. Can we talk to Phil? Dad, can we bring Phil in? What are we doing? Unenfranchised. Back to Future 3.
01:36:59
Speaker
Back to the future three, better than back to the future two. That's what they're saying. That's what Brett and I, that is what Brett and I adamantly defend. And I slightly, slightly disagree. That's a can of worms. Yeah, dude, that's what I'm saying. You coming? You in? Next weekend is my single weekend between two cons. Boo. Well, next time we're available is when we will schedule the back of the future three. I'll do my best to be available for more stuff. Oh, no rush. No rush. But like, you know, whenever you got the time.
01:37:31
Speaker
Sorry, go ahead. No, I was just going to keep going with the top five, so yeah, keep going. No, please do that, because what I'm talking about has nothing to do with the film or the episode proceed. Yeah. Welcome to the podcast. Right. In third place, you've got Mel Gibson, and I think this is the Mel Gibson Goldie Hawn, or is this Mel Gibson Julia Roberts? Mel Gibson Goldie Hawn, bird on a wire.
01:37:53
Speaker
In fourth place, this is the Julia Roberts movie. In its 11th week, Pretty Woman, still in the top five, having earned $126 million so far. I love that for them. And in fifth place, a little movie called Cadillac Man. What if there was a Cadillac man?
01:38:16
Speaker
Robbie Williams is in that if there was a Cadillac comma man, Robin Williams and Tim Robbins in the Tommy Chong voice. Yeah. Rounding out the top 10, you've got Firebirds, the original Teenage Mutant Firebirds. What the fuck is that? Teenage Mutant Firebirds. OK, me neither. That's why I like what the fuck. I don't feel.
01:38:41
Speaker
I only have to shrug my shoulders, but firebirds? What the fuck is that? It's about some birds that are on fire. I don't know what to say, man. Great. I love that. OK. Firebirds. It's a Nicolas Cage, Tommy Lee Jones. What? OK, I'm in. What the hell? How did I miss this? Is that Andy Garcia? No, that's not Andy Garcia. God, I hope so.
01:39:03
Speaker
Um, no, it is not Andy Garcia. Um, I, Sean Young's in it though, so you got that going for you. Elite Apache helicopter pilots are tasked with destroying powerful armed drug cartels operating in South America. That sounds like a movie that's about, uh, about two years late to the party. That's what that sounds like to me. That Ninja Turtles movie though, that shit still holds up. I watched that like a couple of months ago. Yeah, it does. It's fucking good.
01:39:33
Speaker
yeah real good yeah yeah yeah real real good it's fine steven disagrees it's all right i think it's really good no it's fine no i like these turtles dude have you seen yeah
01:39:47
Speaker
Yeah, it's excellent. Yeah, it sounded like you were about to say, and then you quickly. No, I was afraid we liked it. No, no, no, I was I was like toggling between tabs. I was trying to find where where my where I was at on my tabs. Sorry. No, like, like, like the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Turtle fan is good. Listen to our TMNT episode that Tucker and I did while back. That's true.
01:40:14
Speaker
That was a fun episode. Though we slightly like, I liked it more than you, but you were still pretty positive on it. I was like, it was fine. Like, it was fine. Yeah. And then in eighth place, one of my favorite movies of 1990, damn near perfect movie, The Hunt for Red October. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Yeah. I love that movie. That movie fucking rules. It's so good. But it's not even a boat movie. It's a submarine movie. So as much as I respect it and think that it's fantastic, not for me.
01:40:42
Speaker
Mm. That's that's a bummer because it is. It is. It is the least action action movie of all time, and I love it for that. And it is fantastic. The economy of storytelling is perfect. Like that's that is like in John McTiernan's miracle run of like Predator, Hunt for Red October and Die Hard. Like certainly helps that he had Basil Paula Doris for the score. Oh, Basil for me. Yeah.
01:41:11
Speaker
For me, Steven, the hunt for Red October, it's kind of fine. It's my Kevin Costner. You know, it's a thing that like, I should like it because it's amazing. But I'm so like, for some reason ready to die on this hill of like not liking boat movies. Like I feel like I've kind of I've took I've taken the bit too far to where it's like actually affecting my enjoyment of films. I believe that.
01:41:35
Speaker
Yeah, I can't back cut along it anymore. And that's fine because I have I have a lot of fun with the bit like that's more important to me than some fucking real good ass movie that I should be enjoying, you know. In ninth place, Tales from the Dark Side, colon, the movie. Hey, I like that one.
01:41:52
Speaker
Okay, David and in 10th place a little man named Joe versus a little thing called the volcano Hey, you guys what you guys for real? Come we should do that. You're right next week. Yes episode on Joe versus the volcano next week No schedule it Steven. We're it's Arnie April to Austrian boogaloo Did you sorry
01:42:14
Speaker
Did you keep the articulating the punctuation in the titles thing from when we did Street Fighter? Because I thought I heard you say title, colon, subtitle. Oh, yeah. That's a thing that I stole from Andrew Jupin on We Hate Movies because I think it's really funny when he does it. I love it. I love it. Yeah, it's a bit. It's a bit. Oh, and also I'm like scheduled out through like early August right now. So well, put it on the list somewhere, would you? I will not. Damn it.
01:42:43
Speaker
And yeah, so yeah, it makes in its first weekend gets 25 million on its way to 119.4 million domestic. It gets another 142 million international for a worldwide box office gross of $261.4 million off a production budget of 65 million. So it does.
01:43:06
Speaker
gangbusters which you guys as much as kind of noticed this time with Arnie April is these movies are just raking in cash handover fast as much as I don't like the way this movie looks this movie looks it's kind of fantastic look like I don't know this movie I hate it but there's so many like little things that are great that I can't ignore but I'm still not trying to ever watched again you guys
01:43:36
Speaker
That's I'm not gonna make you look. I'm not I'm not trying to be positive I just can't help but see the positive stuff in this film even though I fucking hate it. So I Feel like you guys I feel like I've really really kind of stuck with my my promise to Have a fun time and be a good dude talking about this movie. Yes There's some kind of possibly a medal or an award I could
01:44:03
Speaker
Because it's taking a lot of restraint. Phil might be able to 3D print you something. Yes, please. May I have a trophy? The poor dude's talking about movies. I'm a millennial. May I have a trophy?
01:44:15
Speaker
I participated. I did a thing. I exercised self control. It's just a Mortal Kombat Johnny Cage figurine. Please. I'll send you my address. It is done. The Tomatometer score on this movie. I'm sorry, was there a question?
01:44:35
Speaker
No, I was handing it over to you. Oh, right on. The Tomatometer score on this movie is an 82% certified fresh from the Rotten Tomatoes.
Critical Reception and Personal Ratings
01:44:43
Speaker
The critics consensus under Paul Verhoeven's frenetic direction. Total Recall is a fast paced rush of violence, gore and humor that never slacks.
01:44:55
Speaker
The metascore is a 60, based on mixed or average reviews from 17 critics. And the letterbox score is a 3.8. Phil, as our guest, out of a potential five stars, how many are you giving to a little film called Total Recall? Three and a half. Three and a half. It knows what it's about.
01:45:21
Speaker
And it's not trying to be Oscar bait, obviously. Obviously. Oscar bait wasn't really a thing at the time, I don't think. He kind of was. It was kind of embryonic. Yeah. I mean, Oscar bait really becomes the thing when, you know, the dreaded Harvey Weinstein starts doing his shit a few years from now. But yeah. Brett, what about you? How many stars are you giving to Total Recall? Two and a half. Two and a half. All right.
01:45:50
Speaker
Tucker, dare I ask? You may be surprised to find out, Steven, that even though I fucking loathe this film, I recognize that not only are there a few good things about this film, but also the fact that I have such a strong reaction to this film, either good or bad, means that it is a film of quality. So my own personal rating
01:46:20
Speaker
is the same as Brett's, two and a half stars. Wow, all right. Did you just witness someone grow as a person? I don't know, maybe. I think so. I think so. Trent, maybe. Can't be sure. Compared to what I know from 90 minutes ago, absolutely. I think you'd watch somebody grow as a person if you just met them less than two hours ago. I have an ever-changing mass of bullshit, so yeah, that's nice. Yeah, that also tracks.
01:46:49
Speaker
Whereas I gave it four stars because I think this movie slaps for its flaws and foibles. I just have a blast with this one. I love Quato. I love his disgusting little mouth. I love the incongruity between his mouth and his look and his voice. I think that's amazing.
01:47:06
Speaker
I love that the weird mutant with the thing hanging over his face is Hank from Breaking Bad. I love that you get little Debbie Ann Carrington just kicking ass in this movie, jumping up on a bar and just firing a big old gun. I just love that shit. Hook it up straight to my veins. I love it so much. Yeah, no, this movie fucking rips. Is it perfect? No, but I have a good time. So yeah, four stars for me.
01:47:36
Speaker
Well done, boys. We did it. We did it. We talked about total recall. We got one more week of Arnie April 2, and then we slip into another weird backwards. We kind of fell into it. Theme month for Maine. Just for funsies, yeah. Just for funsies. But before we wrap up this episode, Phil.
Phil's Creative Work and Listener Engagement
01:47:57
Speaker
Tell us a little bit about what you got going on, where we can find you on social medias, where we can find some of your projects, just like plug and spill, dude. I mean, it caught me at a hell of a bad time for that because I do not have a lot of irons in the fire right now. I am between two cons. I do a lot of cosplay. You can find me on Insta at just some girl named Phil, all one word.
01:48:22
Speaker
The other thing I do is for money, so I don't know if that counts as advertising. I do a lot of 3D printed. Right now, the only product I have a consistent line of is D20 lamps.
01:48:36
Speaker
Um, and that company, we will advertise on this podcast if we get samples. Well, they're table lamps right now, but I'm working on, that's not very conducive to D and D. So I'm working on getting some ceiling hardware, um, to make them hanging lamps. You can hang them over your gaming table, which I think we'll really put it over, but you can find that under Phil's nerd foundry, all one word where the E and nerd is a three.
01:49:03
Speaker
Um, on Instagram and I mean, if you just search it, it should link you to the actual store, but I haven't sold anything in months. Um, other than that, there's not a whole lot going on. Um, it feels weird to call myself a former podcaster, but then I'm guessing here. So I don't know if that's necessarily true. So, I mean, I'm still a podcaster, I guess.
01:49:24
Speaker
You're still a podcaster and spirit Phil. No. So yeah, that's pretty much all I have going on right now. But hopefully next time I guess I'll have some more exciting stuff for you. Right on. Right on. We felt anytime if there's a failed franchise starter you want to cover I pretty sure I had you down for this movie.
01:49:45
Speaker
at one point, you expressed interest in it. So that was why I called you because I was like, I know he wanted to do this one. So I'm a call my boy up and see if we can get him on. But yeah, anytime that anytime, buddy. This is the disenfranchised podcast. You know us, hopefully, maybe unless this is your first time, which is welcome. We're glad to have you. Hopefully the tangents weren't too off putting. Oh, everybody loves the tangents. That's why people come for the tangents.
01:50:12
Speaker
You come for the topic, stay for the tangents. Yeah, that's how it works. It should. We should get that on a t-shirt. Please. There we go. I already forgot what it was. It's fine. Doesn't matter. Anyway. I'm on topic, stay for the tangents. Write it down, Brett, quick. You're the only one not inebriated. Is your t-shirt saying you should put that on a t-shirt?
01:50:37
Speaker
Yes, I wonder if anyone's gone with that as a slogan like that's maybe you should probably a t-shirt company. I would hope maybe maybe Just yeah t-shirts that say that that's a good idea. Anyway, you can find us on all the social media as well some of the social media you can find us on blue sky instagram facebook and letterbox and youtube I keep forgetting the youtube at
01:51:04
Speaker
Disinfranch Pod on all those mediums. You can also shoot us an email disinfranchpod at gmail.com. Let us know if there's a failed franchise starter you want to cover. Let us know, I don't know, just how we're doing. And if you send us one, we'll probably read it on the podcast because, you know, we don't get a lot of mail. Speaking of things, we'll read on the podcast. If you swing on over to Apple Podcasts.
01:51:25
Speaker
or Spotify, wherever you leave us a five-star rating and review, we will read that review also on the podcast. So yeah, we love it when you make us feel good about ourselves. So keep moving now. Look, I'm willing to sweeten the deal, Steven. If people write us fan mail that we can read on the air, I would also be willing to toast to them live. Wow. Raise our glasses. Tucker is routinely a guy with a shot glass.
01:51:55
Speaker
at the ready. So it's it's not much of a bonus, but it's a little bonus, little little incentive. If you want us to drink to your honor, that's a way for it to get us to say your name and like talk about how cool you are and stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
01:52:15
Speaker
And while you're on the internet, if you want to give us a little more support, you can always swing by our Patreon, patreon.com slash disenfranch pod. Getting ready to undergo some big changes, just put up a poll for our patrons the other day. You did. And it's interesting to see some of the responses. So yeah, we are, we're changing up some of the formats behind the paywall. We're gonna try to bring you a greater variety of content more frequently, or at least more regularly.
01:52:44
Speaker
And we're moving the what are we watching show to a biweekly show as opposed to a weekly show, which, you know, has the added bonus of giving you more content within an individual episode, which is fun, but also interesting, which also frees us up to talk about and record other episodes of many of the other shows we've got behind the paywall, which is really what this is all about. Sam Stephen, Book of Clarence, here we come.
01:53:11
Speaker
Shit. I'm just saying. Looking at this poll there. Right? I haven't even voted either, so because I. Stephen, the kids love you. I don't know why, but yeah. OK. Hi, kids. Thank you. I am your host, Stephen Foxworthy. You can find me on social media because you all love me so much, apparently. I'm on Instagram, letterboxed and blue sky at Chewy Walrus Brett.
01:53:40
Speaker
Where can we find you on socials these days if we want to keep up with your comings and goings? Man, you know what? I don't post on any of them ever, except for letterbox. Fuck yeah. You can find me at sus underscore warlock on letterbox. That's it. Fuck yeah. Respect. Respect. Do I have them? Do I check them? Do I scroll on them sometimes? Sure.
01:54:03
Speaker
He likes my stuff on Instagram sometimes, you guys. And it makes me feel really good inside. Sometimes I comment on them too. If there's a relevant comment, that's always fun. Go check out his recent post about Huey Lewis and the News. I quoted American Psycho at him. It was great. Somebody was going to do it. And I was just, I was trying to see you do it first and you did not disappoint, Brett. Well done. It's a fantastic record.
01:54:28
Speaker
I was asking for it, but also necessary to post. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. All right, so anyway. Tucker, I'm sorry. Well done. It was another Patreon. Fell. We should plug. No, I forgot to mention it during my segment, and I didn't want to derail things, so I was just putting it there so it would get into the comments.
01:54:52
Speaker
And I also didn't want to be like a competitor, even though I'm not podcasting. We'll talk about it. Come on. Okay. Fine. Okay. I'm sorry. Um, I have, um, cyberpunk short stories. Um, and it's just, um, Patreon look for Phil writes badly. Oh, one word.
01:55:09
Speaker
I know I'm really selling it with that name. But yeah, I designed some of your some of your artwork for that. You did. And I really appreciate that. And the idea is eventually that some of these are going to go into an anthology for which I will credit all of my patrons as part of the creative process. Hi, I'm one of those. Yes. Yeah.
01:55:31
Speaker
Yeah, that is all. Sorry, I didn't think of it sooner. Tucker, we find you on social media these days. I'm on Instagram and YouTube at ice 909. That's I C E N I N E the number zero and the number nine. My Instagram right now, for people who follow me, my personal Instagram, I've been doing an alphabetical listen through of my entire record collection.
01:56:01
Speaker
We're in the H's. It's getting fun. I'm about to reveal a tattoo that I have not revealed. I've not spoken about on the main feed and I have not revealed to anyone on the internet. So that next post, you're going to get to see my new tattoo. And it looks real real good. Real, real, real, real good.
01:56:29
Speaker
Also, we got tuck mugs on Instagrams, of course. Tuck underscore mugs. We've been kind of chilling out for a minute because we kind of had a lot of posts going, like one after another, which is fantastic. But you know, you got to cool down sometimes. I've got a self post in my back pocket. We're going to get to it this week. I have a guest post that I've got in my back pocket, too. Really? Yeah, but when you told me to post,
01:56:57
Speaker
from my vacation. Oh, fuck. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. That. Yeah, we got to talk about that because I'm excited about that motherfucker. So stay tuned for that. Steve and I are going to put our heads together and make something fantastic. We'll talk to the rest of the team and see what we can come up with. Run up the flagpole, see if anyone salutes it. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The team at Tuckmugs, like even if there's not a lot of content coming out, they are working hard. They're earning their paychecks. Some of the hardest working people.
01:57:27
Speaker
It's really really like bless them. Mm hmm. Bless them. Anyway, that's tuck underscore mugs on Instagram. If you just want to like straight up chill and look at some glassware like with liquid in it and shit instead of like doom scrolling over some bullshit, that's just going to make you depressed and upset like this movie.
01:57:49
Speaker
Yeah, tuck mugs, tuck underscore mugs. I had to get one last dig in there. Wow, man. Last word, I hate it. Oh, that was ugly. That was really small and petty of you, Tucker. That was very, dare I say, cuado of you. Yeah, but here's the deal. Like if if it hadn't been like as silly and maybe kind of clever, like there's a little that was a little charm to it. So I think I kind of I can squeak by on that. It's like kind of a Bill Murray thing. Like if you do say so yourself. I do.
01:58:19
Speaker
I do. I know. I heard you. We all heard it. Tuck underscore mugs. Go there. All right. Smash that follow button or whatever the kids say. I don't know. God, I don't know. Anyway, you say, oh, yes, the Utes do for sure. Anyway, this has been our episode on
01:58:43
Speaker
1990s, total recall. Join us next week for the final installment of Arnie April 2, Austrian Boogaloo. I've been your host, Stephen Foxworthy, for this, the disenfranchised podcast, for my co-hosts, Brett Wright and Tucker, and our very special guest, Phil Smith. Until next time, get your ass to Mars. You stupid bitch.
01:59:12
Speaker
you