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PATREON SNEAK PEEK - Unenfranchised 009 - The Rage: Carrie 2 (1999)
42 Plays6 days ago
“...are you sure you aren’t still trying to save a girl who died twenty years ago?”
Life continues to, uh, find a way, so we’re moving this month’s Straight Up to next week. As a placeholder, we offer you a peek behind the Patreon curtain to an episode of our Patreon-exclusive show Unenfranchised recorded in January 2024, which explores films that killed off franchises as we discuss another Tucker favorite - 1999’s divisive homage-turned-sequel to Brian DePalma’s adaptation of Stephen King’s debut novel! Join us, won’t you? And don’t forget to join our Patreon if you like what you hear!
Rage… rage against the dying of the light… and against the world’s obsession with social media! If you can’t be bothered, though, we can still be found on the following platforms:
- @Disenfranchpod on Bluesky, Letterboxd, and YouTube.
- Email us your thoughts or requests to disenfranchpod@gmail.com
- Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!
- Find Stephen at @ChewyWalrus on Bluesky and Letterboxd.
- Check out Stephen’s first novel - Check In, Check Out - on Amazon, now available in paperback or ebook: https://amzn.to/44idk8y
- Find Brett at @sus_warlock on Letterboxd.
- Find Tucker at @icenine09 on YouTube and Instagram and @tuck_mugs on Instagram.
- Join our Patreon for exclusive bonus content, including bi-weekly episodes of What Are We Watching? at https://patreon.com/Disenfranchpod
- Watch our big screen debut in Circle City Supernatural from our buddy J.P. Leck! You can either buy it on BluRay through his website, buy/rent it through Amazon Prime, or watch it free with ads on Tubi!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Disenfranchised Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
No sequel for you.
00:00:23
Speaker
Hey, hey, it's Stephen and with the Disenfranchised Podcast. You know, that podcast all about those franchises of one, those films that fancy themselves full-fledged franchises before falling flat on their face after the first film. ah ah Generally, I'm your host, Stephen Foxworthy, but today I'm joined by Nobody. That's right, because life ah found a way once again, as it is wont to do.
00:00:47
Speaker
um However, much to Tucker's chagrin, it found a way on a straight up week. Those happen four times a year and it just happened to find a way this week.
Schedule Changes & Patreon Content
00:00:57
Speaker
Uh, don't worry though, if you are a fan of the straight ups, Tucker has not allowed us to skip one.
00:01:04
Speaker
Uh, so we'll be pushing that back to next week. You'll see hear uh, our straight up episode. Uh, then, ah for now though, we've decided to go a slightly different route. This one is more or less a straight up just was behind the paywall, uh, for a little over a year.
00:01:22
Speaker
ah that's right. We, uh, uh, back in January of 2024, recorded an unenfranchised episode on the Rage Carry 2 from 1999. ah For those of you who are not familiar with our Patreon-exclusive shows, Unenfranchised is a show where we talk about movies that killed off your favorite franchises. And this is...
00:01:43
Speaker
one of Tucker's favorite movies of all time. And so we covered it behind the paywall. And this, the whole gang's here, Brett, Stephen. Oh, I'm Stephen. Brett Tucker and ah myself all got together to talk about the Rage Carry 2.
00:01:58
Speaker
um So we're going to talk about
Promotion & Social Media
00:02:00
Speaker
that episode. Join us next week for a postponed um straight up. And if you were looking forward to us covering Columbiana,
00:02:10
Speaker
sorry you're gonna have to wait for that one a little longer i'm afraid um but we do have some other fun stuff coming in june our patrons already know about it patreon.com slash disenfranch pod uh you can follow us there for five bucks a month you get access to episodes just like this along with uh what are we watching ah episodes and ah of course a monthly preview of everything we've got planned and if there are any changes to the schedule We let you know that first if you're a patron.
00:02:39
Speaker
ah So head on over there. ah You can find me, Stephen, your host over at ah Chewy Walrus on most social media platforms. ah Tucker is at Ice909 on most platforms as well. I think mostly YouTube and Instagram. And then, of course, Tuck underscore Mugs on Instagram.
00:02:59
Speaker
um He will probably berate me if I do not spell I-C-E-N-I-N-E, the number zero and the number nine for his regular handle. ah You can find Brett on Letterboxd if you want, but nowhere else.
00:03:11
Speaker
ah And while you're out searching the web, you can follow the Disenfranchise podcast at disenfranchpod at blueskyletterboxd and YouTube. ah You can shoot us an email, disenfranchepod at gmail.com, and we would really love and appreciate it if you left us a five-star rating and review, please and thank you, over on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. We sure do appreciate
Unenfranchised Episode: The Rage: Carrie 2
00:03:33
Speaker
it.
00:03:33
Speaker
ah So without any further ado, having gotten all of that housekeeping out of the way, ah here is our Patreon sneak peek, unenfranchised episode nine, The Rage Carry 2.
00:04:13
Speaker
Hey, it's Unenfranchised, that podcast all about those movies that killed off your favorite long-running franchises, ah safe behind the paywall, where only you, and you who pay us that sweet, sweet $5 a month, can access it.
00:04:28
Speaker
I'm your host, Stephen Foxworthy, and joining me for the first time this month, it must be a miracle, is my
Brett's Absence & Return
00:04:34
Speaker
boy, Brett Wright. Hey, Brett. I am here. You are here.
00:04:41
Speaker
i did it. made it. You did it, man. I was worried you weren't going to be able to join us for any of this King and Ink. We did like a whole month of horror movies and you've just been like out. I know, man. Look, work sucks.
00:04:51
Speaker
You all right? I know. Fuck work. Yes. i can say that behind the paywall because nobody's going to hear it. Fuck nope fuck work. Fuck this place. Yeah. They don't pay me enough for this shit. No, they really don't. they Look, Brett, I'm going to give you a little heads up. They never did.
00:05:06
Speaker
I mean, they pay me well, but they don't pay me enough for this. i know Brett, they never did. and and And I hate to tell you, they probably never will.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, we'll see what this year's raise looks like. i hope I hope it's a good one
Tucker's Preparation for Podcast
00:05:20
Speaker
for your sake. As someone who has worked for that company in the past, that, you know, never what you're worth. But hey, Tucker's here too. Hey, Tucker.
00:05:29
Speaker
Hi, um Brett, I'm glad you're here. And let me tell you, um yeah you know, yeah i don't think that you like this movie very much, but I guarantee you it's better than The Night Flyer. Probably. Yeah.
00:05:44
Speaker
Yes. ah yeah not might I already know that most Stephen King adaptations are very rarely good, so that doesn't surprise me. i can see I can see someone being indifferent to this film, like Brett seems to be, where it's just like, whatever. like I don't think Brett's indifferent to this film.
00:06:01
Speaker
but Well, I mean, I am, really. like ah Did I give it a low rating? Yes, spoilers. I was going to say, I saw your letterbox your letterbox rating of it. yeah like I wasn't going to give it a two and a half, which is what you think my indifference would indicate.
00:06:14
Speaker
Because I think a half is too good for this movie. Because it's just nothing. It's a big old nothing burger with like a really cool 10 minutes at the end. See, here's the weird thing is the carry of it all is my least favorite part.
00:06:28
Speaker
Like the end is cool. I like the whole, you know, massacre at the party and stuff. That's rad. But that's it's the part I care the least about. Like it's the rest of this movie that really, really gets me. I really like it.
00:06:41
Speaker
Really like it lot. what What movie, for those who just could not be bothered to read the fucking description of this episode, what it what movie are we talking about, Tucker? ah Well, first of all, I need to get in some inebriates here because I'm way too hyper right now. You
Film's Quality & Directorial Changes
00:06:57
Speaker
really are. I'm i'm already drinking, dude.
00:07:00
Speaker
I'm amazed I didn't start during this movie because, God, I could have used it. One of my favorite movies. films of the era one of my favorite underappreciated unseen sequels the rage carry dose so glad you brought the visual age on a podcast i did well i'm trying to cool it off you know this thing's that dvd's smoking dude it's been i'm playing it so much today okay tucker here so here's the question smoking since i put this on the schedule a couple of months back
00:07:35
Speaker
hu how many times have you personally watched the film the rage colon carry two from 1999 Well, let me tell you, Stephen, I usually watch it um at least once or twice a month anyway. So I'm instead going to tell you how many times I watched it this month in preparation, which is when I really started preparing for this episode.
00:07:58
Speaker
to be To be clear, this said we are three weeks into January as of the date of this recording. It is January 21st in the year of our Lord, 2024.
00:08:07
Speaker
So Tucker has been watching this for exactly three weeks. I just want to preface this with that. Now, here's ah there's I don't really know how to express this because I want to start with the most I watched it in one day, which is today.
00:08:23
Speaker
And technically, I watched it three times, but two of those times, I watched it simultaneously on two screens coming from different sources. So does that count as two each time I did that?
00:08:34
Speaker
Does that count as two?
00:08:37
Speaker
I mean, if you want to get technical, yes. Okay, i need an official ruling on this because I need to give you my count. Yes. so Technically, yes. So if there will be five today.
00:08:49
Speaker
Five times today. i watched There was a day this month where I watched it two times, and then I think I've watched it three times outside of that.
00:09:02
Speaker
Yes, because I watched it the first time i watched it. Then I watched it that one time before we recorded. And then I watched the commentary after we recorded that one time. Gotcha. And then so I guess would be five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten times I've watched this film this week.
00:09:18
Speaker
But like I say, technicality, I did watch it on two screens at the same time today. So if you want a minus two from that, you can. Okay. Yeah. that's That's still insane.
00:09:30
Speaker
Brett, how many times have you watched this movie in your life? Once. Same. Sweet. Sounds like that's just about right for both of you.
00:09:42
Speaker
Although I wouldn't be surprised if at some point I just i just don't remember seeing this in passing on you know syndicated television. Because this feels like a movie that would be in constant rotation on like...
00:09:56
Speaker
The sci-fi channel something. Look, if I'm being honest... it Honestly, it feels like a sci-fi original.
Portrayal of Rape Culture
00:10:01
Speaker
It feels like a TV movie. Yeah. Which... lep I'm going to go into this right now because we're talking about how it looks like a TV movie, right?
00:10:11
Speaker
I noticed something interesting today, and you guys already know, but pretend you don't. I noticed something interesting today because I was watching the streaming version from HBO Max, which of ah of course is in the theatrical aspect ratio.
00:10:26
Speaker
The Academy ratio. Yeah. my My DVD has both full screen and widescreen. It is a flip disc. So the first time that I watched this simultaneously with the DVD and the streaming version, I watched the full screen version, the pan and scan version.
00:10:44
Speaker
Mm-hmm. um You guys, this movie vertically, you see a lot more of the film when you watch the full screen version. And I don't notice any pan and scan at all.
00:10:59
Speaker
It's perfectly framed the entire time in 4x3. And now when you watch it, when I watch it in widescreen on the DVD and streaming, it's the exact same.
00:11:13
Speaker
So the only it's not like the streaming version has been cropped or something. like That's the original theatrical version. But like I say, full screen version shows more vertically and barely anything else horizontally.
00:11:31
Speaker
So I have a sneaking suspicion. i wish I could have proven it ah before this recording, but i have a sneaking suspicion that this was originally filmed, at least partially as a television film.
00:11:44
Speaker
That wouldn't surprise me. No, it wouldn't surprise me either. Speaking of the making of this film, I don't know if you guys did any research. But you didn't have to because your boy knows as much as there is to know about it.
00:11:57
Speaker
that's what i That's what I was banking on for this one. Why do research when you are the researcher? I am the researcher. This film um was already two weeks into production when the director came on to the project.
00:12:12
Speaker
Hmm. the director always a good started out with The director they started out with ah cited created different creative differences and left the project after two weeks.
00:12:23
Speaker
Tale as old as time. The credited director, Kat Shea. Mm-hmm. she reshot everything that was previously shot. And the reason that she reshot it is because when she came on board, she worked with a few of the actors to sort of fine tune some of the characterizations of the different people in this film.
00:12:49
Speaker
And I honestly, I wish that I could see the other footage to see like how they were playing it before she came on
00:12:59
Speaker
It's like wanting to see the Eric Stoltz version of Back to the Future, man. I'd like to see as much of it as is available just because like that's something I haven't seen. you know why not Why wouldn't you want to look at that at least once to see what it was like?
00:13:14
Speaker
I don't know. It just doesn't yeah doesn' doesn't seem like it works, man. Well, of course it doesn't, but it's there. Curiosity. like I wouldn't mind
Production Challenges
00:13:23
Speaker
seeing the Eric Stoltz scene for Back to the Future just to see how fucking weird it would be.
00:13:28
Speaker
Yeah. And you can see, I mean, there's some of them that are that are available to look at, but I don't know if there's more than are available. i would love to see just just to see how different the characters are.
00:13:43
Speaker
Curiosity, man. Curiosity. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, pretty much every male character in this movie is just like a walking toxic masculinity cliche. Yeah.
00:13:56
Speaker
ah Yeah, absolutely. ah They are. And I think something that you can credit this movie movie with is kind of um putting some attention on rape culture huh um before anybody gave a shit to bother right to put any attention on it.
00:14:17
Speaker
And also the thing that happened in this film with the boys and the book and the girl that killed herself and stuff, that's something that really happened. In 1993. Right. I mean, it's something that actually happened. It reeks of like rip from the headlines kind of stuff for sure. And I think, I think everyone in this film that is a a piece of shit the men and the women i'm sorry the boys and the girls because they are children um well their characters are they're obviously adults no no we got a bunch of it's it's the 90210 problem we got a bunch of 30 year olds playing high school students but yeah continue um and i don't remember where i was going with that but yeah that's what was i saying
00:15:07
Speaker
I'm talking about the shining spotlight on rape culture to tell it wasn't being done. no no. How I think all the performances by the people who are mean, nasty people are on point because I fucking hate all of them.
00:15:23
Speaker
Homeboy from home improvement. Holy crap. that he plays He plays the exact same character in ah Fast and Furious Tokyo Drift, a movie I watched last week. I forgot!
00:15:35
Speaker
i haven't seen that movie since it came out, but I do memby him being in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. play And he plays pretty much the exact same character. Wowzers. And I gotta tell you, when they all shave their heads, the the the the bald caps they use, fucking atrocious.
00:15:53
Speaker
wait Well, no. I... They're not bald caps, dude. They all shaved their heads. No, they didn't. Yes, they did. Listen to the commentary. The director said. Zachary Ty Bryan did not shave
Director's Commentary & Deleted Scenes
00:16:05
Speaker
his head. She says him specifically. She needed him back for a reshoot.
00:16:10
Speaker
And when he came in, his hair was still really, really short. And she forgot that they'd all shaved their heads. And so they weren't able to do those reshoots. Yeah, yeah i could i could I can see his bald cap bunching under as under or his bald cap bunching under his baseball cap.
00:16:27
Speaker
Alright, dude. I'm just saying. As someone who used to shave their head... i morning To the director. ah but How often did you see the back of your head, Steven?
00:16:39
Speaker
pretty To know what it looked like. you You look, man. i You shave. You use a mirror. Sometimes you use two. You got to angle them so you can see. Make sure you're getting everything on the back there.
00:16:49
Speaker
So... I just use people that are around. I'm like, hey, did I get it? And they're like, no. and like i am yeah I usually i usually shaved my head in the shower and no one really wants to look at that, Tucker. So in the shower, how do you throw the hair away?
00:17:06
Speaker
Well, it's it's really short, so you you just... train it's got It's stubble, yeah. ah Add to the sewage. What do they call that thing? All the stuff in the sewer? There's a name for it. The greywater clump or the Clump or something? You're a clump.
00:17:23
Speaker
I am not seven different versions of Eddie Murphy. How dare you? I mean, I just call it like I seize it, man. Not that I wouldn't be proud to be, but I am certainly not.
00:17:34
Speaker
Sure, sure.
00:17:38
Speaker
yeah dude but so maybe they shaved their heads maybe they didn't who cares um ladies and gentlemen who the fuck cares i think i think brett has the right attitude hey tucker i have a question like not to yeah not to completely derail everything but um yeah did did what are we watching didn't get posted today did it why would it get posted oh fuck because it's sunday guys you guys fuck Fuck a duck.
00:18:06
Speaker
so Thank you. you must You missed one day. What do i look like? A Leon Thompson? It's a Tuesday. It'll be a Tuesday drop. Thank you. Good job. Internally.
00:18:19
Speaker
Yes, I yeah totally forgot about that. Farts. I was going to say, we recorded one. I'm sitting there looking at the feed going, where is it? though It's a long one, man. It's a real long one, too. We we we we did go on.
00:18:35
Speaker
Our one fan who needs it uploaded on time is losing their mind right now Losing their damn mind. Speaking of our one fan. um Speaking of one fan.
00:18:48
Speaker
Look, two fans actually commented on my Instagram post about this movie. One of them I know is a patron. Brandy, right? The other one not sure about.
00:18:59
Speaker
But both of them really dig this movie. Hi, Brandy. So you guys be nice to the audience. Pretend you like it. JK, JK don't pretend.
00:19:11
Speaker
ah Look, i'm I'm going to be honest. ah Look, I've never, I, we haven't really pulled our punches before. So why start now? And that's, I mean, people don't listen to us because we pull
Personal Connection to Film
00:19:21
Speaker
punches. We we're, we're honest with ourselves and with our audience.
00:19:24
Speaker
That's what integrity looks like. And our other philosophy is that, you know, if it brings you joy, If it makes you happy, then it can't be that bad. Hey, that's not what I've heard.
00:19:35
Speaker
I've heard this is really bad. i mean, it is. Like, but i I don't think it's bad. I just think it's boring. It's it's just like an hour and 20 minutes of predictable stuff with 10 minutes of cool stuff, and then the movie's over with a really bad end scene.
00:19:54
Speaker
What the fuck is that? love Why is that there? Brett, you think that was bad? he should see what the original was supposed to be. Okay, I can only imagine. They shot it and they did the visual effects for it. So it's on the DVD. It's really cool because um when you put on the alternate ending with the director's commentary, they actually go through it like four or five times. The first time they show it to you complete and and then they show it to you in different stages of VFX.
00:20:24
Speaker
And it's really interesting actually. But yeah everything is the same except instead of her shattering, spoilers to anyone who hasn't seen this movie, go watch this movie. Yeah. a snake comes out of her mouth and jumps into Jason London's mouth.
00:20:38
Speaker
And like, he falls. Oh yeah, there it is. Yeah. Oh God, that is fucking weird. That's bad. I mean that the effects look okay for 1999. So I'm glad that, I mean, they're unfinished 1990, 1999 effects, but yeah, well maybe the one you're looking at, but the one on the DVD has a finished version of the scene because they screened it when the film was completely complete and completely completed.
00:21:01
Speaker
What's interesting is i it unlocked a deeply buried memory of seeing at least a commercial or a trailer at some point showing that scene of her shattering as like in the trailer.
00:21:12
Speaker
Right.
00:21:16
Speaker
It's i a classic trailer move. Like here's a random scene. Like if you've seen it, you know, it's at the end and that's a spoiler. But if you haven't seen the movie, it's just like, oh, that's a cool, creepy scene that may be in the movie somewhere. Right.
00:21:29
Speaker
Like that ah the from the movie. What was that movie with ah ah Jennifer Carpenter from Dexter where it's the remake of the and they show but literally show you the ending quarantine break. Yeah.
00:21:41
Speaker
Yeah. There it is. Yeah. child quarantine Yeah. Yeah, and they just literally put the ending in the movie because fuck you, that's why. so what's what's so interesting but Go watch Wreck 1 and 2. That movie's fucking great. Don't watch Quarantine.
00:21:53
Speaker
Okay. what's I think the first one is good, but the sequel... I mean, the Quarantine, because Quarantine has a sequel too, which is not a remake of the sequel to Wreck. Right, yeah, it's completely different movie.
00:22:03
Speaker
but And I enjoyed Quarantine, but that sequel... I mean, I get what they're trying to do, but it just didn't work for me. It did not work for me. No, it didn't. The concept was interesting. I really wish it would have worked because the whole idea of the second one was pretty rad, which I think is why I watched the entire thing. Otherwise, I was like, oh, you really want to watch this, but it might get good because this is a really rad concept.
00:22:26
Speaker
yeah So what's interesting about this – go ahead. I was just going to say, meanwhile, rec 3, probably not that great. You can stop it too. Probably not. um What's interesting about this ending, ah the the epilogue, you know, the the obvious... The a one and a half years later epilogue, yeah.
00:22:46
Speaker
Which they include the original one too, where her hand comes out of the grave. Oh, the, Oh, from the original flashbacks. Yeah, they do. And we're getting to the flashbacks because I, I, that's probably pretty polarizing.
00:22:58
Speaker
Um, but so this was one of the things that director talked about in the commentary that she didn't even want to do because this script was originally not a Carrie movie. It was just called the curse.
00:23:14
Speaker
Right. And original director, honestly, the original director, the Carrie element seemed very shoehorned. The original director read the script and was like, we should make this a Carrie movie.
00:23:29
Speaker
So they did that. And then he walked out, by the way, is Robert Mandel. walks out two weeks into shooting, and so Kat Shay's like, okay, I'll do it, but she really was uncomfortable with the connection to Carrie, because she didn't feel like, she felt like this movie could be more of an homage to Carrie, but it didn't have to take those beats from it because it was a sequel, and she wished that it didn't have to do that.
00:23:53
Speaker
ah Now, something, having said that, it's surprising that she was the one who wanted to put the scenes from the original in this film. which I am famous for saying, don't put scenes from a good movie in your shitty movie because it just makes your shitty movie look shittier, which is where I'm sure most people stand on this. But I think because I like this. are famous for saying that, yes.
00:24:19
Speaker
i say but I am. Maybe not on the pod. don't know if I've ever said it on the pod before, but I do say it quite often. um But, um yeah man, you've made me lose my train of thought again, Stephen. Damn it.
Reflection on 90s Culture
00:24:32
Speaker
Choo choo. it It's weird. as She was directing and didn't want it to be connected to Carrie, but she added those scenes anyway, so that's weird. So Sue Snell is back, obviously. Obviously. Amy Irving.
00:24:46
Speaker
She did not come back until she got Brian De Palma's blessing. Right. Who read the screenplay and was like, yes, ah I approve of this as a sequel.
00:25:01
Speaker
to Carrie because this wasn't like a sequel to the book. This was a sequel to that adaptation right of the De Palma film. right um Also, she had to get Sissy Spacex, ah the the director had to get Sissy Spacex permission to put the scenes from the original in the film.
00:25:22
Speaker
Right, they asked her to film a cameo and she said no, from what I understand, but did sign off on the footage being used. Is that accurate? ah Yeah, yeah. um in the In the commentary, the director the director says that um they had shot it, and they put it together, and they put the scenes in, and they showed it to Sissy Spacek, and she was okay with her image being used in the film in that way.
00:25:51
Speaker
And honestly, I don't think it's- It's 95% the swan stuff or the the prom stuff, excuse me. Yeah. And I think I could see where this would come off a certain way when watching the film. But after listening to the commentary several times, I kind of understand the intention of it, which makes me forgive it a little more.
00:26:16
Speaker
But at the same time, I feel like I'm getting way too in the weeds here. But um the reason the director wanted to put them in so bad is is she wanted to remind the audience of where Sue Snell is coming from.
00:26:30
Speaker
Right. Like what she's been through, which is really rad. And I'm way into that until they unceremoniously kill Sue Snell. Yeah.
00:26:41
Speaker
That came the fuck out of nowhere. i was going to say, which comes out of fucking nowhere. i'm all about I'm all about killing main characters. I think that's very brave.
00:26:52
Speaker
But you don't you got to give it some weight. like You gave the character so much weight in the entire movie. it's It's half Sue Snell's story. And then just, she gone, buh-bye.
00:27:05
Speaker
It took me a second to register what had just happened. Right? Like, it have happened so so quickly youre quickly and out of nowhere. Right. Whoa! You're like Brad Pitt in Fight Club when he shoots the van.
00:27:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Whoa! it's Right? Wow. It's a good effect. I really like the effects in this movie. The practical ones. lot of Yeah, the practical ones are really good. I agree.
00:27:27
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, yeah, it comes out of complete... It comes completely out of nowhere. where It doesn't feel particularly earned. Mm-mm.
00:27:37
Speaker
I mean... I don't think it's i needed it either. I think the deaths of all, like, the jerk children, like, those all feel very earned. this month Like, girl getting her glasses all splody in her eyes and then turning the spear gun and, like, ripping off Home Improvement Boy's nuts and shooting them into the pool. That was...
00:27:56
Speaker
And then Discount Matt Dillon drowns, and like that's pretty fucking scary. like The way they show that is kind of terrifying. Yeah.
00:28:07
Speaker
Yeah. I'll tell you, i have I have issues with this movie, and I recognize that there's a lot of it that doesn't work, but but it's one of those things to where the shit that does work for me in this movie the shit that doesn't isn't bad enough for me to like, not let it be overshadowed by the good stuff.
Character Development & Tension
00:28:29
Speaker
You know what i mean?
00:28:30
Speaker
Sure. So, so take us, take us back, paint us a picture, Tucker. When did you first engage with this movie and why is it, why does it mean for you what it does?
00:28:40
Speaker
Well, those are those can be two separate stories, though they will lead into another. sure how i How I came across this film was i was I was that age when this movie came out.
00:28:53
Speaker
that's i I was like a junior in high school. when I was going to say, in 1999, you'd probably be sophomore, junior. yeah like i started I started working at the movie theater a few months after this came out.
00:29:07
Speaker
So i had the poster. They still had nobody wanted the poster. cause Nobody gave a shit about it. So I missed it by that. I was like, I was like, this poster is rad. And I took it and I had it for well I wish I still had it, man.
00:29:20
Speaker
But I had the original one sheet to this and I'm like, it looks like this poster is rad. I'm like, i this and Carrie, like maybe i don't know, I had my reservations and then I rented it.
00:29:32
Speaker
On video at the Blockbuster there a little bit after it came out. And i dug it like I was I was okay with it like I wasn't over head over heels about it, but I didn't dislike it.
00:29:46
Speaker
I was like, yeah, that was cool. ah But then the older the older I get, the more this becomes like a comfort film for me.
00:29:58
Speaker
Because I'm not the most of nostalgic guys. I think i think nostalgia is rad, just like everything, in moderation. But I think if you get too nostalgic in certain ways, that it's hard for you to move forward as a person.
00:30:12
Speaker
You know what i mean? Right. I mean, that's kind of being born out in pop culture now, but yeah. Yeah, so i try I try to kind of moderate that shit.
00:30:25
Speaker
But the Rage Carry 2, this is – I was here when this was happening. This is like – it's almost like a video. Like if someone took a video at my school when I was a junior, it would this would movie would resemble it quite a bit in a lot of ways.
00:30:42
Speaker
So it takes me to a time and a place. I mean I was certainly getting flashbacks watching this movie. Like the way everyone was dressed, that one kid who finds his way into multiple shots with the pink hair.
00:30:53
Speaker
like I was just like, i i know these I know these people. Exactly. You know those people. You've been to these places. Yes. I was not always welcome in those spaces, but I i knew the people that that have that habited them inhabited them. Goodness, I am tired and I've had some whiskey. So it's a you know lethal combination for my diction tonight. Apologies, everybody.
00:31:18
Speaker
You got this, Steven. ah But outside of the nostalgia, I think that I would probably still think of this film favorably. I wouldn't rate it as high if it weren't like a snapshot of my junior year of high school.
00:31:35
Speaker
um I would probably think it was above average. um because I really do like ah how in this one, whereas the first one is more about building up to the big climax at the end, I think this one is more about the drama and the character development of all these little shitheads.
00:32:00
Speaker
I think there's more of that in this film to the point to where most the time you forget like there's a scary thing that might happen. Like when the Seuss Nell scenes show up and all a sudden she starts getting a little weird, you're like, oh shit, I forgot this is a Carrie movie.
00:32:16
Speaker
I thought I was watching a TV movie on ABC Family. Fuck. And if you're able to remember that you're watching a Carrie movie, the the machinations of all the the the teenagers begin to start to make sense. Like you can see...
00:32:30
Speaker
you don't know exactly know what it's building to in the same way that you do in the original, which I watched the other day in preparation for our episode. I watched it last week too. That's the only movie I watched last week.
00:32:42
Speaker
um I watched, I watched that and ah the 2002 made for TV movie yesterday. And then I watched the rage carried to tonight, actually like 20 minutes before this recording.
00:32:54
Speaker
And then watched, um, I'm planning on watching Carrie the musical in the 2013 Carrie tomorrow. Something else that I enjoyed about this that was different than the original is that.
00:33:10
Speaker
I feel like this it's so much worse. What happens to Rachel in so many ways, because she is fucked
Actor Performances & Dynamics
00:33:20
Speaker
in like four different ways at one time, right?
00:33:24
Speaker
Whereas Carrie's, and this is, it's also traumatic. I get why Carrie did what she did, but you know, it's a bucket of blood and that's fucked up and fuck all those motherfuckers. But this girl is not only being instantly betrayed by people who only just a few minutes ago made her feel like she was part of the group.
00:33:44
Speaker
Not only that, but she finds out she's in this book. She finds out the whole scoring system thing. And then Oh, no, wait, we're not done. And then they put the sex tape up on the TV. And I love how they they made that because it's just one television.
00:34:02
Speaker
Right. you see many of them because it's reflecting onto the glass. You see them turning up toward a mirror, like rotating the TV toward a mirror, which is reflecting all over the house. Yeah. That's so fucking clever, dude.
00:34:14
Speaker
I think that's really clever just to make it very surreal in the way that it's just surrounding her. Sure. Sure. fantastic was I was definitely thinking watching that scene going what if what if this were the real world and she didn't have powers and killed everybody after this what the fuck would have happened like nothing probably and that's what's terrifying like exactly yeah I mean because we already see ah Home Improvement Boy basically getting away with statutory rape because there's, quote, not enough evidence to tarnish the reputation of this upstanding boy.
00:34:48
Speaker
and daddy's a lawyer in bed with the fucking mayor. Yeah. Right. Like, it I mean, and I'm just like, how many fucking times? Like, this is the reason the Trump kids are not in jail right now. I guarantee. Yeah.
00:34:59
Speaker
it shit like that right where you're just like this is completely disgusting and it as the only difference between then and now is that we can recognize it now for what it is and and are are more willing to call it out but at this point it's just like well that's just the way things are and god it sucks it sucks so much yeah dude Like just the the undercurrent, the the very strong undercurrent of just completely toxic bullshit and masculinity couched in, well, boys will be boys, which they legitimately say at one point in this movie.
00:35:38
Speaker
yeah yeah I mean, look, i'm I'm not going to deny as much as I thought this movie was like vanilla. At the same time, I loathed these characters. yeah I was looking forward to watching them all be horribly massacred at the end. Like I was waiting for it and I wanted it very badly to the point where I wish they had been massacred more and suffered more than they did.
00:35:57
Speaker
Dude who got the poker through his head, um like i think he saw and then home Improvement my Boy got his nuts shot off with ah with a spear gun. That's pretty brutal. Bled to death from his balls.
00:36:09
Speaker
Yeah. And then and then ah TV Share ah got her glasses all splody and got shards of glass in her eye. That's the gal that was in the the first, well, she was in a bunch episodes of Flight of the Conchords.
00:36:23
Speaker
She was she was in, she was in um the meard like, they keep dating. Like, she goes between them quite often. That's funny. um She was in, she was Cher in the TV version of Clueless, like the only person from the original cast other than Dan Hedaya that didn't return for the show.
00:36:39
Speaker
And then she was in, along with Mina Savari, also in this movie, she was in the movie Sugar and Spice, which is, a really fun movie that I really do enjoy. I, but that and drop dead gorgeous. Like that's just such a great double feature in my mind. I agree.
00:36:56
Speaker
It's hard to think of one without thinking of the other. It is i'm being honest. Yeah. And this movie, I mean, it's got a pretty, ah pretty decent like cast for a late nineties, early 2000s, like a bunch of people who are just getting ready to pop.
00:37:13
Speaker
And a bunch of people who are just kind of on their way down, like Jason London kind of on the way down. ah Zachary Ty Bryan kind of on the way down. But then Rachel Blanchard and Mina Suvari, Eddie K. Thomas, like a year or two before.
00:37:27
Speaker
No, I think it's the year that American Pie comes out. Yep. Like, I think it's the same year. Yeah. 99. yeah, there you go. Like it, like Eddie K. Thomas. I'm just like, holy shit, Eddie K. Thomas.
00:37:39
Speaker
um Like it's it's got like, ah I was shocked at the the number of recognizable cast members in this movie for sure. Former President Gerald Ford's son plays the coach who makes a boy expose himself u in the locker room. Speaking of that scene.
00:38:02
Speaker
that's that's that's a good Speaking of someone who's been in education, it's a good way to get yourself fired. Yeah. Well, in the 90s in that school, your boys will be boys.
00:38:13
Speaker
ah But...
00:38:17
Speaker
ah So what i really there's something what what I really appreciate about this movie is I like its visual style, and I think it its visual style doesn't really jump out at you when you watch it for the first time. something that you appreciate over multiple viewings, which I don't imagine most people view this multiple times.
00:38:38
Speaker
But for example, in that scene, everything takes place with the film being projected on it. all the people, the film's being projected on them. Like they're standing up in front of the projector.
00:38:53
Speaker
Right. And it's really interesting to kind of watched what watch what's going on and to see kind of that violence happening on them. Like, I don't know. It's it's really cool. there's There's a lot of really cool stuff like that in this movie. But like i say, it's the kind of stuff you don't notice unless you've watched it at least two or three times.
00:39:13
Speaker
It doesn't really register and sink in.
00:39:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, dude. Also in this cast, ah your girl, Emily Burkle, who had never been in front of a camera before this point. Oh, nice. Never. She had been a shit ton of plays. She was she was a stage actor and they got her in this. This was the first time she'd ever been in front of ah camera. And let me say this girl knocks it out of the fucking park.
00:39:39
Speaker
It's one of the most natural and believable performances, I think. I was going to say, given given that,
Ties to Original Carrie
00:39:47
Speaker
it's difficult i would I'm surprised that she was a stage actress because usually acting for stage and acting for film, very different. Very different. There's not as much of that kind of performative, I'm playing to the cheap seats kind of um projection that you get from stage actors, myself included, a lot of times in movies.
00:40:07
Speaker
She's flawless in this. I think she... she I never doubt anything. That this girl does or says in this movie. I think she's fantastic. I think everybody else is good too. But i she really, really sticks out. She's so natural. like everything I don't know how to describe it. she's just I believe it all. You know what I mean?
00:40:27
Speaker
And as as an actor, that's what you're trying to do. Is to get people to believe that you're not acting. Right. I believe it, Emily. I straight up believe it.
00:40:38
Speaker
salute Yeah, I mean, i think I think she does a good job. The thing that I miss and the thing that I think, at least from the versions that I've seen, that no one has been able to match Sissy Spacek on are just the dynamism in her...
00:40:55
Speaker
the emotion of her eyes, which Spacek does so well. I was paying a lot of attention to that in my most recent rewatch yesterday. And like, she sells everything with the, her giant blue eyes that are so piercing.
00:41:11
Speaker
And that final scene, I think half of what makes the prom scene in the original, I think half of what makes it so creepy are the eyes. Like she's just got these giant blue eyes that stand out so starkly against the just dark red of the blood all over her.
00:41:27
Speaker
And she's just, and De Palma is so smart about framing them. Even when she's not the center of the frame, like she'll be deep in the background and something's happening in the foreground and you still her eyes are standing out piercing.
00:41:41
Speaker
And that didn't really Angela Bettis really wasn't doing that in the 2002 movie. And we don't really get she's great, but no, agree with you. um And um Emily Burgle is not really doing it in this one either.
00:41:57
Speaker
Like, the I think the way they they yeah they shoot her is interesting. And I think it's dynamic. And I think that it lends a lot to kind of the emotion of the scene. But the eyes aren't selling it the way that SpaceX did, which I think is so key to It becomes, for me, the thing I remember most about that movie.
00:42:18
Speaker
And it's something that every other version that I've seen in the last couple of days just has fallen short of. Well, I really think that that's a problem that I, the biggest problem I have with this film is is how how it is yeah Because it doesn't need to be.
00:42:39
Speaker
No, it all feels very shoehorned The only thing that having this be a sequel to Carrie does is makes you want to compare it to the original. Let's us cover it on Unenfranchised.
00:42:52
Speaker
It makes you want to compare it to the original. And that's that's something that to enjoy this movie as much as I do at this point in my life, that's something that I had to...
00:43:04
Speaker
push aside a long time ago to get this much enjoyment out of it sure and i'm i'm not saying that anybody else should do that like whatever or i'm not saying anybody else could but like for me i just that's why like most of time when i'm watching this movie until they mention carry or show a little clip i'm like oh shit that's right oh that's right That's how much I've psyched myself out of it being a Carrie movie.
Family Relationships & Deleted Scenes
00:43:29
Speaker
There's something after the colon in the title of this movie. Because it works right so well without that.
00:43:35
Speaker
I was going to say, you could remove all of those elements and and make it something else, and I think it would play better. um Even make it an homage.
00:43:47
Speaker
Right. Basically just the same string of events like it is now. Just take all the Carrie shit out. Mm-hmm. I mean, it could be an homage, you know? Yeah. yeah um I will say this. ah Carrie's dad definitely seemed to have a type.
00:44:04
Speaker
Yeah, dude. Like, man had a type. um He was very into the mentally unstable ah religious fanatics, for sure. Mm-hmm.
00:44:20
Speaker
to And I'm sure we'll talk more about that on our, i well, the our patrons will have heard it already, our episode on on the 2013 carry. I'm sure I'll have more to say on that then, but yeah.
00:44:33
Speaker
Word. Well, I'm sure being able to tap into the shinning is probably affecting that a little bit. Sure. Sure. Sure. But I mean, according to ah sue Snell in this movie, that's, that's all him, man. Like he's, he's passing that on to the daughters and the straight up genetic.
00:44:52
Speaker
Right. And the, the women are like, I don't know. Do you think that's the thing driving them mad? or you think they're the kind of there already? i think he is like, cause he clearly has it.
00:45:02
Speaker
So he's passing it on to us, but like, maybe that's, maybe he knows what it is and he wants to pass it on. And, but he has like, you know, Not everybody with the shinning is good. so Sure.
00:45:14
Speaker
as As Dr. Sleep tells us. Yeah. Yeah.
00:45:20
Speaker
So, yeah. it um yeah i mean Dude's got a type, though. I just couldn't help but but notice. And I kind of wish we got more with the mom in this. She's great. Because the i j J. Smith Cameron is the actress. And i I've seen her in some other stuff. And i I generally like her when she shows up. I was...
00:45:38
Speaker
Actually, most of the deleted scenes, she's in them and she's fantastic. but I was going to say, she's in one where succession. She's Jerry in succession. That's where I recognized her. Fuck me. Thank you. They're bugging the hell out of me the whole time.
00:45:52
Speaker
Literally just looked up her pen. Yeah, that's 100%. But no, I did the same thing. i was like, fuck, of course. That's where I know her from, of course. Yeah, there's there's one deleted scene where Rachel visits her mom at Arkham before we were throwing around those references. Yeah.
00:46:08
Speaker
Yeah. No, no. getting there to the finish line first. Mm ah Anyway, so she visits like to see the Joker around any corner. It's really sweet. It really adds. I understand why they cut it out ah for pacing. I don't know where it would have went, honestly, but it's really kind of sweet and gives a little a little bit more ah weight to their relationship because you don't see them together.
00:46:35
Speaker
until the end like you're sitting together in the first scene and she's a small child which i love that tracking chat where they track the little girl into the house and the doors are shutting behind her that is cool that was great i liked that i was kind of like is this good actually and then like yeah know it's not then it turns out it's time immediately yeah Oh, yeah. But in this delineation, she visits her mom and she lies to her and tells her that the family she's living with are really nice and that they spend time with her and they do things and everything.
00:47:10
Speaker
And her mom mentions that ah Rachel will be 18 in a few months, which means that she can be her guardian and she can get out of the loony bin.
00:47:23
Speaker
Hmm.
00:47:26
Speaker
all things you didn't need to know but kind of add to I really thought it was really sad because you know what Rachel's home life is like but she's just so that her mom doesn't worry or get sad telling her But you get the impression that it probably wouldn't be that much better with her mom in that situation like situation wouldn't improve that much Well, if you, I don't remember if this was in a deleted scene or not, but there's one part where she's talking to Sue Snell and Sue Snell's like, um I think Rachel straight up has telekinetic powers.
00:48:02
Speaker
And ah her mom's like, no, I was crazy when I thought that. that doesn't exist. like that's So she kind of seems like she has maybe gotten better. and Like I said, I don't remember that's in the movie proper. if it's in the that's I think that's a deleted scene. I don't remember that. Yeah, I don't remember that.
00:48:24
Speaker
I don't remember that specifically. um i mean, I remember... yeah i don't Yeah, I don't think they address it specifically. i don't remember. Because that kind of muddies that character's arc because she's clearly crazy when she sees that guy that isn't there.
00:48:39
Speaker
Yeah, George. Yeah, George. And then when she first sees Carrie, or Rachel, damn it, she sees her as a little girl, and then when she
Cast Comparisons
00:48:49
Speaker
sees her as she is, she's like, well, no, you're not my little girl. The devil has you.
00:48:52
Speaker
Yeah. The devil's in you. Scream. Yeah. I'm fucked up. It doesn't have as much weight as I feel like it should have, be just because you we never see them interact with one another outside of that first scene.
00:49:06
Speaker
And I think that's why you need that deleted scene that Tucker was talking about, if for no other other reason than just to establish their continued relationship. Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:16
Speaker
Because for all we know, they haven't seen each other since Rachel a child. I feel like that's what's implied in the theatrical cut. like yeah I think that's that's implied because the way that they way they edit it and the way they frame Sue Snell trying to get her to get out because it's like, well, why can't she just come there and you can talk to her? Yeah, Sue, why can't why can't Sue bring her to the the institution? Why can't she bring her to Arkham?
00:49:46
Speaker
Speaking of Sue Snell and the institution, boy, that's smooth. When she gets her out and she plans out to where the other patient freaks out so that everybody looks that way, just smooth. She's in a Metal Gear Solid game, dude.
00:50:00
Speaker
like She's got a box. out She's in a box like scooting a around. That's some slick shit. Oh, hey, can you grab my purse?
00:50:11
Speaker
Races out. Patient scream. Orderly comes. And yeah. Yes. Beautiful. Now, while we're ah originally this tangent started on us talking about the cast and I did want to mention one more thing about the cast before we maybe move on about that. I just wanted to clear up that this is Jason London.
00:50:30
Speaker
This is Mallrats. Yeah. Mallrats not days to confuse seventh heaven Jeremy London this is Mallrats yeah Jason morris du this is to Wong Fu London yes oh yes yes it is oh he's so sweet in that movie too he's just a sweet boy in all those movies yeah I will was not a I can I can honestly say not a big fan of of him in Mallrats if I'm being really honest
00:51:03
Speaker
I, you know, um no actually, you got it. You got it twisted. This is Dazed and Confused. Yeah, I'm looking at his IMDb right now. The other one is Mallrats' seventh album. Jeremy is Mallrats' London. Look, they're twins.
00:51:17
Speaker
This is a mistake that I'm sure happens all the time. Because I'm also confused. So, yeah, that makes sense. Because i I just looked it up to make sure, like, before this podcast, and I'm already getting it mixed up. Yeah, no.
00:51:28
Speaker
Jeremy London. i think it's Jeremy London. Let me double check that. Jeremy is his barrage. Yeah, Jeremy is the mall rats London. um And Jason is the dazed and confused London.
00:51:42
Speaker
Indeed. Indeed. indeed I don't know why. Like, look, if I had a twin, I'd just be in the same movies with them. You know, we could just like switch in and out like tag team. Like ah Mary Kate and Ashley style.
00:51:54
Speaker
Yeah, dude. Like I'm tired. Let's come on, man. i'mnna go back to trailer. You want to. right. You know, tag out. have both in makeup, costume, everything ready to go.
Visual Effects & Consistency Issues
00:52:05
Speaker
Do a scene with each. See which one's better.
00:52:07
Speaker
I mean, they've they've done that. The Ashmore brothers in the X-Men films. I know there are a couple episodes of Buffy where the the Xander dude and his twin are like in the same scene together. like they they They do that shit, for sure. the guy, the the the Gremlins 2 Terminator 2 guy, too.
00:52:25
Speaker
yeah yes the the Yeah, the Joe Dante loves those guys. they're also They play the Warner Brothers in Looney Tunes Back in Action. We were talking about the Warner Brothers, right? yeah Talking about the Warner Brothers, yeah. yeah The Brothers Warner.
00:52:40
Speaker
Yeah, that from Gremlins 2. They play Martin and Lewis in um And they run a cloning um ah cloning division of a gene splicing operation. So the the inference there is that they are clones. It's so funny. yes And they're Martin and Lewis. And then there's like some of their lab rats are named after the chipmunks. um Like there's like so many subtle jokes in Gremlins 2. Now that is a masterpiece. But, you know.
00:53:13
Speaker
I also feel like they were in an episode of Eerie Indiana. Am I crazy? The the the pilot episode of Eerie Indiana. Directed by Joe Dante. By Jadonte. The man himself. So, yeah, man. you gidi Dante fucking loved those guys.
00:53:31
Speaker
Who wouldn't? They seem like sweet boys. they They do. They really, truly do. I hope they're doing okay. I hope they're all alright. I haven't seen them in while. truly do.
00:53:43
Speaker
Everything you're doing is bad. want you to know this. I want you to know this.
00:53:53
Speaker
oh Oh. Yeah, dude. The rage. Carry 2. Rage. Carry 2. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What a cast.
00:54:04
Speaker
i yeah I watched it too. Yeah. For good or ill. like I watched the damn thing. So yeah. Straight up. What a picture. ah Let me get your thoughts on the, ah the tattoo.
00:54:16
Speaker
Because I think it's equal parts lame and bad-ass. Um, i the I... Now, are we talking the a the initial tattoo on the arm, or are we talking the body tattoo? No, no, no, no, no. I'm obviously talking about when it grows. Part of her shine is that she can grow tattoos, which That's what I think makes it sick.
00:54:36
Speaker
It's pretty fucking cool, in my opinion. But also lame, but also really cool. I think the tattoo itself, originally, just as is, is lame. And i want to...
00:54:47
Speaker
Grow it? Like, that's cool. It covers the whole body. Badass. I dig it. I want to get that tattoo, but damn it, it's so lame. Like, I want to get it, like, honor of this film, but it's so lame. The original tattoo is, like, it's fine. It's it's one of those, like, it's it's a marker, it's an indicator.
00:55:02
Speaker
Like, I think it sets the movie in a specific time and place. ah like Like, everything else about this movie, this movie is, like, distilled 1998, shot directly into my vein.
00:55:13
Speaker
I called it in the chat 1998. You did. movie you did i stand by that no you're you're right you're absolutely right you're right and you should say it um so i don't mind be a dumb scream reference oh yeah the director hated that that's why she had him do it in the do donald duck voice to kind of make it a joke because the studio was like you have to put that in there and she's like all right well if i do i'm gonna fucking make it stupid like fuck you Yeah, because I mean, that's that was the thing, though. Everyone had to reference Scream because Scream was the hotness. Like horror movies had been really shitty for ah several years. And so let's let's say jacka some would say you obviously would not.
00:55:59
Speaker
A lot of great stuff came before Scream.
00:56:03
Speaker
Like immediately before Scream, too.
00:56:09
Speaker
Sorry, I had a burp. That's like the longest burp ever. that was concerned for a minute. No, you were concerned. Is he going to run out of breath? like Maybe. Fucking maybe, dude. Don't want to see Steven drown in a burp.
00:56:21
Speaker
ah Straight up maybe. I would never expect you to run out of breath when you're on you know when youre doing a diatribe. That would be weird. I know what we saying. It's the jokes.
00:56:33
Speaker
I don't listen to You kidding me?
Character Stereotypes & Tropes
00:56:35
Speaker
Oh, yeah. that's right I think once it spreads across the whole body, i I'm just my my first indication is fucking how. Like, how does that work? Yeah, that's why it's lame.
00:56:46
Speaker
Powers, man. Like, it's all you need to know. It doesn't need an explanation. Fucking power. No, but we need ah good we need need consistency, man. Like, I need the internal logic of the thing to work.
00:56:57
Speaker
Like she's got telekinesis. could maybe explain it to you. So she can move things with her mind, right? Maybe there's enough ink under her skin that she can move that to different places.
00:57:08
Speaker
is it a fresh Is it a fresh tattoo? Because I don't get the impression that it's a fresh tattoo. So her friend was 17. She had the tattoo as well. So I'm assuming since the deleted scene where she talks to her mom where she says she'll be 18 in a few months – They both got them recently. I mean, their guardians would have had to sign off on that in almost every state. Even then, you couldn't really get a tattoo if you're under 18. And most places won't even let you with a guardian or parents' permission.
00:57:38
Speaker
I once ah worked with a lady who got a tattoo with a student and, like, pretended to be her guardian so she could get it. Wow. she know She did not remain hired very long. She did not remain in Pult so Logic stands, though.
00:57:56
Speaker
More than likely, it was fresh. If we want to go with that logic, there's also just the fucking logic that it's fucking supernatural, man. but You don't need an explanation when it's just like... Moving shit around. Moving shit with your mind. look Moving shit with your mind ain't real, too. You want to try to explain that?
00:58:10
Speaker
and look I mean, i again, it's... just it
00:58:17
Speaker
i'm I'm able to suspend my disbelief to the extent that the movie explains what I'm seeing. Like you can tell me it's, it's supernatural. It's magic. She has, you know, she has telekinesis.
00:58:28
Speaker
Fine. Great. Obviously I'm on board with that. I read fucking comic books. But like the extent to like, eat it has to make sense within the logic of the thing.
00:58:39
Speaker
Like the X-Men are mutants. That makes sense because within the, there, there's a logic within that. um Some of those powers don't make sense. Even with that excuse.
00:58:50
Speaker
Correct. There's some power. but you that all the time no No, but that occasionalally that's the reason. the reason don't like X-Men as a rule. this You guys jumped on my point.
00:59:01
Speaker
ah Sorry. No, you guys know, but you absolutely. We are like-minded. There needs to be an internal consistency and an an internal and internal logic to the thing for me to be able to get on board with it. And I feel like that...
00:59:16
Speaker
that lost me in that moment like you're you're sacrificing a sense of internal internal logic and internal consistency for something that looks cool and that that is one of the things that look cool though it does look kind of look cool and if there's one thing i love as a but it doesn't make fucking sense is the rule of cool will win at all times does it make sense fuck no is it does it look really cool hell yeah go ahead yeah
00:59:40
Speaker
Well, I think for me in this instance, like, um it's, I understand what you're saying, Steven, and surprisingly, I do agree with you. But, like, most things that are wrong with this film, i don't i'm goingnna die very it's very easy for me to overlook and just be like, holy fuck, that's rad.
01:00:01
Speaker
You know what i mean? Sure, sure. But that's why I don't like 90s comics, man, because it was all it was about how cool it looked at the at the expense of story and character and all the other shit that i I love. So you're not going to like that Venom sequel then, because that's a a ah middle school 90s comic readers wet dream.
01:00:22
Speaker
Like, see, I have i do. but There is a line for me. Like, it doesn't always win. Like, this is something that isn't so far-fetched that you couldn't find an exclamation explanation for it.
01:00:33
Speaker
so and And it looks cool, so I'm fine with that. But if it's, like, so over the top, literally no explanation could even touch it, then I'm like, okay, could we dial it back a little bit?
01:00:44
Speaker
like i could Like if her head detached from her body, spun around and flew around the room a few times and then reattached, that would probably be a step far. The thorn sprouted off of her skin and started attacking people. Oh yeah, if it turned into like, yeah, right that would have been too much too. that's I would have been out.
01:01:01
Speaker
Yeah, that's, no.
01:01:05
Speaker
yeah But still, I think it's fine in this movie. So this, how long, no, I don't want to mention that, never mind.
01:01:14
Speaker
Well, you already have. bright or You might as well finish that thought. No, redirect. Trust me, redirect. No, was it that bad? Oh, God. No, it's not bad. It's just, it I don't know, it's might be too soon.
01:01:28
Speaker
Too soon? yeah you want to just say it and edit it out later if we don't think it's going to the way? No, I don't. So how weird is it like his are like... going to be a tougher volunteer when edit something? His buddies are like 25 feet away while he's boning some
Critique of Societal Norms
01:01:42
Speaker
chick in the backseat?
01:01:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's fucking weird. What the fuck is that? I mean, I guess the only explanation I can proffer is the 90s were really fucked up time. In a lot of ways, yeah. In a lot of ways, yeah. You know, the homoerotic...
01:01:58
Speaker
you know, suppression of, you know, gay tendencies in football players. Very big trope. Very big trope. For a reason. and but yeah um For a reason. Yeah, for sure.
01:02:11
Speaker
I don't want to stereotype anybody, but, you know. like Right. But I mean, you know.
01:02:18
Speaker
You all right there, dude?
01:02:22
Speaker
Yeah, man. Good. Yeah.
01:02:26
Speaker
Great. I just ah it's got to take drink. Do what you got to do, brother.
01:02:36
Speaker
We'll wait.
01:02:39
Speaker
ah I'm just to tuck her head at something. I counted. It wasn't two seconds. Wow, you're just going to let that dead air sit nice. No, you say so you said something.
01:02:52
Speaker
That's why i i'm not going to edit it. If you'd stay completely silent while i was taking that drink, it would have been edited because it would have been over two seconds. But you broke it up, and now it's not over two seconds. So it stays.
01:03:04
Speaker
Fucking stays, dude.
01:03:09
Speaker
Plus we're behind the paywall. That's true. I remember Brett's tradition to not make any cuts behind the paywall. We did not edit a damn thing. Was it because I was lazy and didn't want to edit that shit? You better believe it was, but it's a tradition.
01:03:25
Speaker
know great With every episode, whether it be the Patreon or the main feed, if I pay attention to this. if If any of us does like that...
01:03:40
Speaker
Some kind of gross noise that the audience is not really going to want to hear. i don't want to hear somebody burp in my fucking ear, dude. I get enough of that at Taco Bell while I'm trying to eat. But ah seriously, the people making the food, i mean I don't eat in the dining room anymore because they're like just yeah out there burping.
01:03:56
Speaker
They're having burp fights in the back. And I'm like, that's cool. like I'm not against burp fights. But your boys out of here trying to, you know, some tatees. Like, come on, you guys. pretty How often does that happen?
01:04:09
Speaker
Has that happened to you? seems like an odd occurrence to have happen once once. I prefer to dine in when I when i eat, if sure possible. sure So I gave this place so many tries.
01:04:25
Speaker
Every time I went in there, this is the local Taco Bell here in New Hampshire. And I used to try and go inside half the time the dining room was not open.
01:04:37
Speaker
And when I would get inside, they would have the loudest, most aggressive music coming from the kitchen area, which, again, not against loud, aggressive music. But I don't come to Taco Bell's dining room and listen to fucking speed metal while I'm trying to eat my taties.
01:04:55
Speaker
You know, but want to do that. two months Thank you very much. that Well, that's that's what you expect. when you You know what you're getting into. Right. You don't expect that when you walk into a Taco Bell.
01:05:06
Speaker
I don't think they have kumas in Beep, New Hampshire. so No, they have them in in Beep, Illinois, though. I heard that's where they're from. Yeah, they do.
01:05:16
Speaker
In Beep, Illinois, they sure do. And also Beep, Indiana. It's a little tiny town outside of Gary, Indiana. Okay.
01:05:26
Speaker
That's where Steven lives. That's where I live. Correct. you
01:05:32
Speaker
Wowzers. Whoa. I don't remember what we were talking about. as far Oh, we were talking about the tattoo, but I feel like we had moved on. No, I think we had. yeah We were talking about, uh, we're talking about dude having, having sex with his eight, like 25 feet away from his buddies who are all like, yeah what a journey this guy goes on. Right. night Like, I don't, I don't think, but look, he,
01:05:54
Speaker
He participates in the ranking book thing. Yeah, he is culpable. That's a big, like, what the fuck, dude.
01:06:05
Speaker
But I think as the film goes on... his character turns into kind of changes a bit, you know, has a, grows into someone that maybe is not that shithead, which I don't think makes him any less responsible for certain parts of what happened.
01:06:24
Speaker
Correct. Still, it's nice to see ah character ah change in a positive way. I love a good redemption arc, dude. I'm a sucker for it. mean, to me, he definitely fits that trope of like, we'relu like there's a group of jock dudes,
01:06:38
Speaker
And there's the one main character guy like plays along, but you can tell doesn't really want to. And like he feels bad about it, but he does it any anyway.
01:06:49
Speaker
ahha And he befriends the main female protagonist.
Character Arcs & Redemption
01:06:52
Speaker
Because that's his boys, because they've all been friends since they were kids, which Discount Matt Dillon mentions many times. Because the whole movie, you're like, why is he friends with these assholes? ah We've known each other since we were dumping in our diapers. Yeah.
01:07:05
Speaker
yeah Which is such a weird fucking way to say, since we were babies. But, you whatever. Well, that guy's kind of a weird guy anyway. He's a douchebag. He says a lot of weird stuff. And that dude, he's got to look for it, man. That dude, he's ah he like I'm sure he's a wonderful human being.
01:07:23
Speaker
But in this film, with his hairstyle and his facial hair and the way that he acts, he looks like a fucking asshole. If I saw him walking down the street, I'd be like, fuck no. Boom, this way. Like, fuck.
01:07:34
Speaker
Fuck no. Bag of douche. Yes. An entire bag. Not half full. Like it's coming out of the top. Yeah. it's It's overflowing. Full unto overflowing.
01:07:45
Speaker
Yes. What's that guy's name? We should say that guy's name because I keep calling him Discount Matt Dillon. Dillon Bruno. Or is it Dillon? Bruno. Something Bruno. I just closed the IMDb page, of course.
01:07:57
Speaker
It is Dylan Bruno. I was right. Yeah. He doesn't like if you look at his IMDB picture, he doesn't look like as much of an asshole without that facial hair. he actually looks like a pretty cool guy without with like when he's put together, you know?
01:08:11
Speaker
hmm. Like what is that? The short spiky hair and the like douchey necklace and the frosted tips and the the hemp covered ah like ball chain necklace.
01:08:23
Speaker
Oh, is he the fucking boyfriend in Where the Heart Is? Oh, is that the one where Natalie Portman's pregnant in Walmart? Yes. I love that movie. He's not the original boyfriend. I think he's like maybe the second boyfriend or whatever. yeah. That movie's wild. Especially when that came out, we were like, what the fuck is this shit?
01:08:42
Speaker
Right. um Now I have to know. Because, I mean, I was a Natalie Portman as child. Yeah, it's it's him because it's on his IMDb. It comes up as like the most popular thing he's been in.
01:08:55
Speaker
Willie Jack Pickens. Willie Jack Pickens, which makes me think. Yeah, he's the original boyfriend. Sorry. He's the he's the father of her child who becomes a country singer later. Nice.
01:09:06
Speaker
That's who he is, which is his whole look as, you know. the that D-bag look I think fits well for him in that in that respect. He wears it like h perfectly. Looks like a complete piece of shit.
01:09:20
Speaker
m Love it. Looks like Zach Baggins before Zach Baggins. i hope't anybody if anybody gets that reference, I don't know. If you watch Ghost ghost Encounters. Oh, no. don Straight up dude. ah was you can't If you say my stuff, Steven, I can't say my stuff.
01:09:40
Speaker
going have to ask you to back off the straight ups, okay? Straight up make me, son. Dude, boy, you cruising for a bruising, dude. Bring it. Bring it, bitch.
01:09:52
Speaker
Woo! Steve, it's sassy tonight. I am punchy as fuck is what I am. So ah the other guy that's in their gang, um he's just kind of a guy and we don't know anything about him.
01:10:09
Speaker
ah He pukes at one point after the friends are all sitting in the car 20 feet away from where their friend is is straight up boning someone. yeah uh and i love that like they finished this do you hear the sound effect of the zipper and he just starts getting out of the car and she's like that was great and he's like yeah oh yeah yeah okay i mean i guess so sure that's cool i gotta pee real bad you know how it is yeah okay
01:10:41
Speaker
wow i've kind of felt like that bitch was a bitch i'm sorry that That woman was not a good person is what I meant to say. I mean, that's definitely not what you said. But I did feel bad for her in that moment where he was just kind of like, hmm.
01:10:59
Speaker
That is why her arc is weird. Yeah. You bad for her in that scene and then like just becomes the worst. what Yeah. Like her motives are like, yeah, I get it. But also you're, ah see you next Tuesday. I'm trying to be better, you guys. I'm trying to be better.
01:11:15
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Let me be better. ah we Look, dude, whenever you're ready to start, man. I'm starting so hard, dude. Like all the time I'm starting. New Year's resolution.
01:11:25
Speaker
I'm in a perpetual say state of start.
01:11:30
Speaker
That makes so much sense. Which is why there's no progress because you're always starting. yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.
01:11:39
Speaker
That's how they get you, Steven. That's how they get you.
01:11:44
Speaker
Oh,
Nostalgia & Hellraiser Discussion
01:11:45
Speaker
but yeah, mean, I don't have much more to say about this movie, I'm afraid. Oh, you're lame. i well No, you're not, Steven. You're cool and we're friends, but it's lame that you don't have anything else to say.
01:11:57
Speaker
it's just, you know, um all I can say that I haven't said is I wish there was more Mena Savari in this movie, and that's about it. All right. Well, I'll fill another about 20 minutes of me just bringing things up, and then you guys can comment on it.
01:12:08
Speaker
What about that song during the party scene? They just keep saying 13 cats. you know what that song's called? 13 cats. you Know who it's by? 13 cats. i caught it. it i caught it in the end credits. Yeah.
01:12:20
Speaker
It's so like, it it doesn't let you miss it. Mm-mm. You're trying to pay attention to the movie. It's like 13, 13, 13, cat. 13, 13, 13, cat. 13, 13, 13, cats.
01:12:32
Speaker
It just goes to show how much I was checked out by then because I don't remember it. I guess so. didn't wake up until people started dying, dude. Basically. That tattoo started moving. He was like, wait a minute.
01:12:43
Speaker
Oh, shit. All right. Finally. I can my phone down. Sweet. Brett had a good old nap. Brett had a good old nap, like checking out, making sure the inside, checking his eyelids for leaks. And then all of a sudden, the...
01:12:55
Speaker
that That tattoo started growing. He's like, oh okay. Tattoo started growing. This is like a hill I can die on later. ah started popping off. Yeah, dude.
01:13:06
Speaker
Murder. CDs. People getting murdered with CDs, dude. that That reminded me of the Cenobite with the CDs. Yes. That's one of my favorite Cenobites, actually. Of course it is. Of course it is. i would We should do ah we should do a top 10 Cenobites list.
01:13:24
Speaker
Because I know from Cenobites. Come on. Oh, I mean. And in what world is Pinhead not number one? Am I crazy? Tuckers. Well, yeah, probably because of course it it wouldn't be. but He's three.
01:13:39
Speaker
like the lady with the throat and like said, the guy with the CDs. Those are my two favorites.
01:13:47
Speaker
So one day i we should rank them. If you guys ever like catch up and like get more of a more context for it and have like a top 10 or top five, then we should do one. I don't really see myself desiring to engage with Hellraiser. You do? Okay, all right. I could do a top five Cenobites. I would actually include some from the remake. I think think a lot of those designs are really cool.
01:14:10
Speaker
I thought those were cool, too. None of them enter my top five, but I thought they were really rad. I did enjoy them. I liked the remake, too. I thought it was nice surprisingly really cool. Kind of flipped everything on its head. Well, yeah.
01:14:22
Speaker
I kind of didn't like that it took the ah remake of Pet Sematary route and be like, we're just going to change everything because we want to. and didn't really like that route. but I'm sure we can cover it on the main feed one day. They're not going to do a sequel to it, are they? I would love to.
01:14:35
Speaker
I don't think so, no. I'd love to watch it again. And the thing about the Hellraiser movies is they're not movies. They're not my kind of movie.
01:14:48
Speaker
same they're really cool and interesting so i watch them anyway so i need motivation so please can we do because i want to see that movie again but i also don't want to see that movie again so if we get for the podcast like that's the thing i've only seen the first two but i love the lore of hellraiser so i know more about the lore hellraiser than i've watched the movies like that's a lore double feature with like uh phantasm or something like that shit is yeah the shit goes deep a lot going on there comics and all sorts of shit oh yeah that's right and books other books besides the one that it's based on that's true and it's been yeah it's been through so many production and distribution companies too like
01:15:38
Speaker
Yeah, unfortunately most of them direct-to-DVD or movie. Yeah, after like the
Favorite Cenobites & Listener Interaction
01:15:43
Speaker
third one, I think. Or maybe it was Bloodlines, the one Dimension did. I think the first four were theatrical and everything after four was direct-to-video.
01:15:58
Speaker
Top five Cenobites. Anybody who has a top five, put it in the comments. If you'd like to hear us do a top five Cenobites and make Steven watch all those horrible, horrible, icky movies that are also really good. and um who Let us know in the comments, man. Let us know. because Because if you want us to do it, Steven will do it.
01:16:17
Speaker
You can just stop when you find five Cenobites you dig. That's all. they
01:16:26
Speaker
Have you seen really any like the The fat one with like the really skinny glass glasses. I like that guy too. like that guy. yeah he's They're just all so... i don't I'm trying to think of a Cinebite that I don't like at least kind of think is rad.
01:16:39
Speaker
the I can't think of one. Steven, you haven't seen any
Event Horizon vs. Hellraiser
01:16:43
Speaker
Hellraisers? I've seen the original, and that yeah that's it. It's a lot. It is. a lot It sure as fuck is. Don't cry, Steven. It's such a waste of good suffering.
01:16:58
Speaker
Look, all I do these days is cry, so that's not entirely true, but you know. No, dude. you know dude uh yeah so i was right everything after everything after bloodline is uh direct to video so inferno hell seeker debtor hell world revelations and judgment are all direct to direct to video damn it i want to say that hellraiser went to space before friday the 13th did but i'm not sure on that uh bloodlines came out bloodlines is the space one right
01:17:35
Speaker
I believe so. Then, Didn't Leprechaun go to space before him, too? Bloodline is 96. Leprechaun 4, which is Leprechaun in space.
01:17:47
Speaker
I did fucking watch those. God, what was wrong with, what was I thinking? um i tried to tell Warwick Davis, like, what are you going to do? insisted. I did. i really did. got You got to respect the Warwick Davis band. Also came out in 96. So that's ah that's a letterbox, hyper-specific letterbox list. ah Fourth installments in, 1996, fourth installments of horror franchises that send their main characters to outer space.
01:18:12
Speaker
But those both came out before Jason X because Jason X came out around the time this day? No, after. 2001. 2001. Hey. There you yeah go. Bloodlines, the reason it takes place in the future, by the way, in case you're curious. I know you are.
01:18:31
Speaker
um Stephen wants to. I mean, it's so does like the past, the guy that created the puzzle box, and then like Stephen It starts in the future, which is fucking weird, and then it goes back to the guy that created the puzzle box.
01:18:44
Speaker
Like, Back to the Future 2. Kinda, yeah. It jumps all over the place, time-wise. I mean, Hellraiser in space, isn't that just Event Horizon?
01:18:56
Speaker
that's
Homages vs. Direct Sequels
01:18:57
Speaker
not a man i i haven't heard that joke for at least a couple of minutes hey i wasn't trying to make a joke i was just really just asking but okay did you guys no i mean it's it's a pretty common like description of event horizon but look i mean there's it's clear that it's inspired by hellraiser she even says there's i have such sites to show you like it's right okay she quotes pinhead like so yeah what's the like like that movie But that movie instead is an homage, which is what this movie should have been.
01:19:27
Speaker
Sure. and Instead of... yeah Look at you trying to get us back on track. Hey, man, it felt it felt good because it was the same thing. It was the thing same same thing we were talking about earlier.
01:19:37
Speaker
Yeah. I do agree with you, though. Homage feels like a better use of than than trying to make it an actual physical sequel. because i don't
Hollywood's IP Reliance
01:19:46
Speaker
As far as a direct sequel goes, I don't think it works very well.
01:19:49
Speaker
But as its own thing divorced from the Carrie stuff, i I feel like I would enjoy it 10% more. I think it's a fine line, though, because you don't want to get too far into the weeds and then you've got everybody saying, well, this is just a Carrie ripoff.
01:20:02
Speaker
oh That's true. And I think the the Carrie related stuff in this movie, I don't think it's bad. Like, I don't think it's badly acted, shot, anything. I just think it doesn't belong in this fucking movie.
01:20:14
Speaker
it It feels tacked on. It feels like an afterthought, which is apparently exactly what it was. Like say, they had a full script and then they rewrote it just to stick some Carrie shit in there. Basically figure out what the connection is and figure out how you can like pepper that in Right.
01:20:31
Speaker
Yeah. Which feels disingenuous to me. I don't like that, but yeah, I don't like it either. Still love this movie, but I mean that, that is a very Hollywood way of, of making sequels though. Like you get a script and you're like, I don't know, could we change a couple of things and make it a, this kind of movie?
01:20:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's another reason that I might be more forgiving to films like this. And like I've mentioned before, like Blair Witch 2 and stuff, because I'm so used to the studio ah just coming in and taking a really good idea and screwing it up.
01:21:07
Speaker
Mm hmm. that like my expectations have lowered in a certain way where I'm like, okay, you know, as long as this concept is good, as long as the studio doesn't fuck with it too much.
01:21:21
Speaker
right And it shouldn't be that way. It should just be like somebody straight up making art and shit and me being like, oh, that's rad. that's ra
01:21:31
Speaker
But instead, you know, in a perfect which also in the same breath, I will say i get that studios are businesses and they have to make money. hmm. So I completely understand that, too. So I don't really know where I stand on it.
01:21:43
Speaker
And I mean, IP, especially these days, IP is basically the only way that studios know to make money. Yeah.
Marvel's Echo & Daredevil Speculation
01:21:51
Speaker
So, like, it it kind of becomes an Ouroboros thing where everyone's trying to pour as much as they can into IP, and maybe 10% of it actually hits.
01:22:02
Speaker
And so we just keep pouring more into it in the hopes that it'll hit the it'll be part of the 10% that actually hits. Even though though though that numbers game is pretty off. Even Marvel's not really hitting like they used to.
01:22:16
Speaker
so No, Echo was the shit, though. did you guys finish that yet? I did. I did find the time to finish. it one One episode a day, but I did manage to do it, yes. Oh, that's the best way to do it. I didn't binge it either. They put it all out at once, and I'm like, come on, guys.
01:22:30
Speaker
Give me break. i I prefer to binge it. It took a lot of willpower to not lose sleep over binging the whole thing. but Yeah, dude, I'm telling you, it was good. Steven, you hear that? It was good. It was really good.
01:22:43
Speaker
Yeah. it's feels It definitely feels like it fits in the Netflix Daredevil universe, which is very good. Yes, indeed. Yeah.
01:22:53
Speaker
Which i I heard is that's that's all canon now. Yeah, dude. Brett, I would like to recommend to you the gal that plays Maya was on Jimmy Fallon a couple nights ago, and I recommend you check that out on YouTube because it's so fucking rad.
01:23:12
Speaker
oh She's straight up the raddest. Yeah, she does seem pretty cool. And anybody else who liked Echo, check out that clip from tonight's show because it's really rad. was you Don't want to go on a tangent too far here, but I do have to ask that silly part you were talking about in episode three. What were you talking about?
01:23:33
Speaker
Okay, so my this really should be on a What Are We Watching? But we're not doing a What Are We Watching this week, so here we go. We didn't do one last week either, apparently. but and We did shut up. We're going to go into the shots fire no godam What Are We Watching corner over here.
01:23:51
Speaker
um so the thing about the the contact lens that he puts on her eye so that when he speaks, it shows like these like phantom hands doing sign language.
01:24:08
Speaker
Why not just have it transcribe what you say?
01:24:15
Speaker
A lot of people have pointed that out, I noticed. Not because like because I don't think... I'm not going to lie. I don't think that she would mind either way. like It would be just as easy for her to watch those phantom hands as it would be for her to read it in text, and she'd understand it the same way.
01:24:31
Speaker
It just seems like, why go why go that far? like It's almost like a slap in her face because like at one point she's talking to him and she's like, and that's why you never fucking learn sign language, because you suck.
01:24:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the point. but i and then I was honestly very upset that they even had that line at the end. I felt like that was more supposed to be implied. You didn't need to like put a lampshade on it. yeah like you know He never learned sign language because he doesn't actually care about her that much.
01:24:59
Speaker
so
Kingpin in the MCU
01:25:01
Speaker
Well, he cares about her almost as much as is possible for that character, which is not very much. but Right. Right. Sure. Just yeah.
01:25:11
Speaker
Kingpin he's interesting because he thinks like if I said that to him he would not think I was correct. Like I think he believes that he cares about her.
01:25:23
Speaker
Yeah. It's the same way as he believes that he's doing good for the city by like running drugs and murdering people you know. like He's obviously a bit mentally ill.
01:25:36
Speaker
Delusions of grandeur and such. yeah Good old kingpin. Vincent D'Onofrio just knocking it out of the park every time. I do love his portrayal of that character. New Daredevil, I'm sure of it.
01:25:48
Speaker
Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. Out of the park. but that's the other thing as the The end of Echo sets up Born Again for sure. Yes, it does. And you know what I read, which is the best thing I've probably ever read about an MCU show ever in my life, is that with the shake up in the writers room for the new Daredevil series where they started, then they got rid of everybody and started again.
01:26:13
Speaker
ah The rumor is, is that they're bringing Foggy back, dude. And what the fuck? How would you even think of doing Daredevil without Foggy anyway? Foggy and Karen. Both are coming back. Yeah, and the original plan was for them to die off screen in between seasons. Like, that's how... Yikes, dude.
01:26:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's... I'm glad they got rid of whoever was, like, good for them. I want them to make money, but also, please don't do this show. Whoever you are, let me find Foggy in there. So I'm hopeful for the MCU moving forward, that they've learned from their hubris, and that they're actually going to try... Go back to trying a little bit harder now, because...
01:26:48
Speaker
Well, I think they're put in a position with the whole Kang thing, too, to where they're going to have to be creative. They're going to have to come up with something that's going to blow our socks off because, like, what the fuck are you going to do?
01:26:58
Speaker
Like, they're kind of behind the cue ball right now. They've got to do something. It's going to go either way. Right.
01:27:08
Speaker
and So the rage carry, too, is really rad. It's
Box Office & Genre Analysis
01:27:12
Speaker
all right. well love The last ten minutes is rad. Last 15, 20 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever. The ending is rad.
01:27:19
Speaker
but I do like the ending, but I do prefer ah the the teen drama stuff. I think it's ah compelling. Because you don't really want to wait for their lives to be over. You want to know right now, what will it be? Are you Dawson's Creek fan, Tucker?
01:27:36
Speaker
No. okay No, I never watched the Dawson. I never watched The O.C., Shit, I didn't even watch 90210 because I'm old enough to have been maybe interested in that when it was on.
01:27:51
Speaker
Don't like that kind of stuff. No, Tucker was a Melrose Place super bitch. Nope. Didn't watch Melrose Place. that Didn't watch Party 5. Didn't watch any of that shit. It's totally not my genre, which is why the the times that it pops up, like my love for the so ABC family show Greek and my love for this movie, it's uncharacteristic, but it's still true.
01:28:17
Speaker
But it's uncharacteristic that I didn't like this movie because if you give me teen drama mixed with supernatural bullshit, then I'm totally in. Brett, i you know I didn't expect you to straight up love this movie, but I'm a little surprised ah that you didn't like it any more than you did. Maybe it's the fact that the supernatural bullshit is just kind of like non-existent most of the time.
01:28:39
Speaker
yeah It's like not
Eight Millimeter Discussion
01:28:40
Speaker
there until it is. and then my It's there very briefly and then it just... It's almost like a backdoor horror movie, honestly. Yeah.
01:28:52
Speaker
I agree with that, but I still straight up love it. Straight up. Liggety love it.
01:28:59
Speaker
Are we going to do star ratings on this? Can we talk about the box office? Yeah, I got it all pulled up, man. Good. I have to pee, so talk about the box office real quick.
01:29:10
Speaker
Yeah, so this movie opens on March 12th, 1999. One of the all-time great years for movies, if depending on who you ask. It opens at number two in the box office to $7 million in its opening weekend.
01:29:25
Speaker
Wow, really? I did not expect it to open that high. I'm kind of shocked. It drops like a stone over the following weeks. i can I can track it over the next few weeks, but um it but also it's March. Like, it's...
01:29:39
Speaker
it's It's like just after the January, February dumping grounds and just before summer blockbuster season. So there's not a lot of strong contenders. That makes sense. no Number one at the box office in its second week is the Harold Ramis film Analyze This.
01:29:54
Speaker
And then Rage Care 2 at number two. ah Cruel Intentions at number three in its second weekend. ah in In fourth place, The Corruptor. a movie I have never heard of. um It is apparently a James Foley film.
01:30:12
Speaker
ah Brian Cox and Mark Wahlberg are in it. What if there was a corruptor? What if what if someone was a corruptor? um ah Fifth place, Baby Geniuses, ah starring ah Dan Monahan from from last week's episode on the Night Flyer um in there as well.
01:30:31
Speaker
ah And then rounding out the top 10, you've got the Deep End of the Ocean, Wing Commander, future episode of the main feed Wing Commander. ah The other. Hey, that's a Vichy game. eight and Eight millimeter and October sky. film in indian and What millimeter now?
01:30:46
Speaker
What was that? Eight.
01:30:50
Speaker
Oh boy. I love that movie. You guys. that that Anyone surprised by that? No. Okay. Have have you either of you seen eight millimeter? Of course not, dude. So it's directed by Joel Schumacher. I'm aware. Right after Batman and Robin.
01:31:04
Speaker
Correct. And people were like, you suck because you tried to do something different that we didn't like, which fair. But he was like, oh, yeah you think I suck? Watch this shit.
01:31:16
Speaker
I have not yet begun to suck. Motherfucker. No, no, no, dude. He goes the opposite direction. He does something really gritty. um It's a really good film. It has Nicolas Cage
Box Office Performance of Carrie 2
01:31:28
Speaker
and Joaquin Phoenix.
01:31:30
Speaker
in it among others. And that's that's pre gladiator Joaquin, too. Yeah, yeah. He's fantastic. Post to die or post to die for. is that is that the movie that he's in with Nicole Kidman?
01:31:48
Speaker
To die for is the Gus Kidman, the Gus Van Sant movie where she plays the weather woman movie. That's a good movie. I really I really like that movie. Actually, that one's really cool. criterion just popped out on that one 4k dude okay get it on the list dude going on the list get it i mean it's not like i have disposable income right now to go get stuff but when you do when i do maybe it will be on sale um But yeah, so that after that, the movie drops like a stone um across the the subsequent weeks that it's in theaters. We're talking.
01:32:23
Speaker
Let me actually track it through. So it goes from number two um to number seven. in the ah In the following weekend.
01:32:35
Speaker
And then it goes from number seven to number 12 in the third weekend. And then from number 12 to number 17. And then from number 17 to number 28 in five weekends.
01:32:56
Speaker
Yeah, dude. That's damn near idle hands numbers. Yeah, and then and then by by its sixth week, it's it's in 34. It's making less than $200,000 that week at the box office, and it's it's pretty much cooked at that point. It earns a grand total of $17,760,244 during its entire domestic box office run.
01:33:24
Speaker
it does not really have an international theatrical release so Those are the numbers as they stand. and that's, ah I think the budget was 21 million.
01:33:35
Speaker
ah Yes. According to the, according to the numbers that is accurate. So doesn't even make back its budget. Tone metometer score on this one does not exist. There is no tone metometer score on this movie.
01:33:49
Speaker
I didn't do well on on video either. Like nobody gave a shit about this. Like there's not even a North American Blu-ray of this outside of a twin pack with the 2003 or the 2002 TV version.
01:34:03
Speaker
Right. Which is crazy because I like I recognize like the box art for this movie. ah yeah Like to me, like it's a nostalgic, iconic like cover.
01:34:14
Speaker
So like, I don't know. Maybe I just saw it a lot. but It's pretty unique. I would say it's pretty unique. That might be it too. I think even if I weren't aware of this movie, I would also probably have some memory of the cover or the poster.
01:34:30
Speaker
um Not anything else. The meta score is a 42 based on mixture average reviews from 21 critics. And the letterbox score is a 2.4. Oh, that's not fair.
01:34:42
Speaker
Brett, out of five stars, how did you rate 1999's The Rage Carry 2? You know what I'm going to raise my original rating just a little bit.
01:34:54
Speaker
Give the ending its due a little bit more. and I'm going to bump it up to 2.
01:35:01
Speaker
OK, that's
Nostalgic Perceptions of Horror
01:35:02
Speaker
respectable. Tucker. ah Well, ah for me, this is a three. Do I love it ah in how how much I like it is a five? Mm hmm. But looking at it like without nostalgia goggles for me, it's a three.
01:35:23
Speaker
Fair enough. Three no goggles, five goggles. It's a two for me, for sure. um Like we said, slightly better than the Night Flyer, but not much. Oh, I disagree. That was difficult to get through. I didn't even want to watch the Night Flyer.
01:35:42
Speaker
This, you could at least take a nap if you wanted to.
01:35:48
Speaker
And I did. Well, there you go. See what I mean? like Night Flyer, it's so bad that it like actively makes you watch it. And you don't want to, but you have to because you have a podcast. and You got to cover for that damn podcast, right?
01:36:04
Speaker
Yeah. Some asshole put it on the schedule. and But hey, you know what? Episodes like this make all that worth it. That whole cartoon month it sucked balls. This made that worth it.
01:36:16
Speaker
Hated all those movies. At some point, we're going to cover something we're excited about, and that does make the bad stuff worth it. so Oh, yeah. And you know what? Despite
Critique on Carrie 2 as a Sequel
01:36:25
Speaker
your less than thrilled ah reactions to this film, I am glad that you've seen it, because it is a part of me, and now that you've seen it, you know me better.
01:36:39
Speaker
did. We raise it into the rafters, along with Pootie Tang. Yes, we have we have grown as friends. Like our friendship level has increased. Right, and Buckaroo Banzai. We raise it into the rafters, Buckaroo Banzai and Putty Ting.
01:36:53
Speaker
is Is Return of Captain Invincible up there? i yeah kind of has to be. I mean, that's your call if you want it to be. he has to be, yeah. More to come. I mean, we gave you a whole fucking show so you can you can showcase these these monstrosities. Dude!
01:37:11
Speaker
This one fits well in the Un-Enfranchise, though. Look at this cover. You can't make sense of it. like oh You got Home Improvement Boy right there, right? He's just like, hey. That look on hang on London's face. Look at that. That's what i'm saying. Look, there's two snails. She's just like, what's going on there?
01:37:27
Speaker
There's ah Discount Matt Dillon. Hey, what's going on? But Jason London, this boy is upset. he is very upset everyone else is very confused uh emily is very like stoic and then uh london is just like freaked out can you read that let me read this to you it's awful every teen thinks their terrible thoughts hers are deadly yeah that's terrible that's an awful tagline right from a terrible like trailer voiceover yeah
01:37:59
Speaker
Yes, it's awful. And this write up. Oh, golly. They did not know what to do with this movie or how to market it. And that's a damn shame on both accounts, because I think there's a lot of potential in this film. I think there's a lot of good stuff in this movie, but there's a lot of stuff holding it back, which is why everybody fucking hates it. And I get it.
01:38:18
Speaker
I don't understand. They want it to be a Carrie sequel. Lean into that. like What is so hard? Yeah, like
Marketing & Sequel Debate
01:38:23
Speaker
commit or don't. like That's the thing about this movie. It doesn't want to be a Carrie sequel. It has to be. It doesn't want to be, but it fucking has to be. Yeah.
01:38:32
Speaker
Yeah, here's the thing. it doesn't has It doesn't have to be, but someone somewhere decided that there was money in it, and so we're making happen. to the people who are paying for it right need it to be.
01:38:43
Speaker
It's a good thing we didn't have ah ah this podcast in 1997, because we would absolutely have probably covered the original Carrier and then have to cover this. as a part of that re-en franchise, which then we we're supposed we're we're if b we're supposed to have one of those on the main feed later this year.
01:39:03
Speaker
so if What else? Is Beetlejuice stealing? Well, they're doing the Gladiators filming, right? We never covered Gladiator because they were filming it. Oh, shit. You guys are clever, dude.
01:39:14
Speaker
It was on the schedule. it was on the schedule yeah And we took it off because they were filming already. And that sucks because the most interesting thing to talk about about Gladiator on Disenfranchise would have been the sequel that was written. yeah like You know what?
01:39:32
Speaker
but You know what we should do? We should try to organize a script reading of that sequel because I have a copy of it. Well, you know, Steven, you keep talking about all these script readings and then and did we never read a script. So yeah, that's true. We don't say dude, you gotta, gotta light that fire, dude.
01:39:48
Speaker
Yeah. I should, I should reach out to some of these friends of friends of the podcast and see if any of them would be interested in coming on doing that. Cause I'm down for it. Drop it as a main feed bonus or something.
01:40:00
Speaker
Dude. Yeah. Yeah, dude.
01:40:05
Speaker
Good job. You guys. I don't know. Hey, we talked about the Rage Carry 2. Good for us. We watched the Rage Carry 2 and I'm so happy. Thank you, gentlemen, for taking this journey with me.
01:40:17
Speaker
It means a lot to me. That's what we're here for, man. And we did sort of indirectly answer the question of this podcast, which is, you know,
01:40:27
Speaker
what what about this movie killed? I don't remember the conceit. We've only done this a few times. but i remember like the This is the ninth episode, I think. so yeah yeah like What that heart exactly you like what killed the franchise? yeah and well The box office, really. and the fact yeah the box office really is equal The fact that it doesn't want to be a sequel. The fact that it doesn't need to be a sequel, but for some reason it fucking is. The fact that it comes out 23 years after the original sequel.
01:40:54
Speaker
And the few people that went to see it saw it because they liked the original and this is nothing like the fucking original. So yeah, it fucking tanked like for obvious reasons. i love this movie, but it was always going to fucking tank.
01:41:09
Speaker
Yeah. i'm Always. Yeah. it It should have been a direct-to-DVD or a made-for-TV. it it It should have
Future Projects & Podcast Content
01:41:16
Speaker
been, but it was not. I think it was made-for-TV at one point, Stephen. right time We got a mystery going on?
01:41:22
Speaker
We did this already. Let me check your Insta feed and make sure that Cat Shea hasn't responded to you yet. Look, if she does, you know we're doing a thingy. ah What do you call it?
01:41:33
Speaker
What's that thing called? addendum? Yes.
01:41:37
Speaker
No, she's not responded yet. Did she like it? Who's Joan? Who's Joan? Oh, it's a porn thing. Let me block them real quick.
01:41:48
Speaker
Porn bot. Yeah, dude. I think she likes you.
01:41:55
Speaker
They're pretending to be someone else. um so damn it why does instagram make it so hard to like get people in trouble it's like they don't want them to get in trouble what uh it's like google it's like report this ad and you're like yeah for copyright infringement because that shit's obviously illegal and they're like well do you own the copyright bitch and you're like um Well, I guess this is as far as we go. I concede everything. I can't do anything now.
01:42:30
Speaker
Well, we'll just block and delete that comment. Anyway, boys, good job. Congratulations. Great thing here. It has been done.
01:42:44
Speaker
Congratulations. and Go and rest your heroes. Look, I anticipated this for a long time and it met and exceeded my expectations. I am so glad.
01:42:56
Speaker
Hopefully it met and exceeded all of yours patrons. This is taking the place of what are we watching for this week? Um, I don't know what's taking the place of last week's cause, uh, didn't get posted on Sunday. Shut the fuck up.
01:43:08
Speaker
but I'm going to do it. I forgot. It's been a busy week. It's still funny. Yeah. going to say, I can't do it. I can't do it anymore, but I can, I had to, had to hit that third one. um Anyway, ah let us know your top five favorite Cenobites, I guess, in the, in the comments.
01:43:25
Speaker
Tell us what you think of the rage carry to tell us what you think of the rage carry to as much detail as possible. i record yourself talking about the Rage Carry 2 and maybe Tucker will edit all those together and drop it as a bonus. I'll respond. I don't know.
01:43:39
Speaker
I don't know how it'll work, but there will be a response, public response. Top five users of The Shining. Drop that in the comments too. yeah Top five Stephen King adaptations. We that as a distant five times. Top five sequels to Stephen King adaptations because sometimes they come back again.
01:43:57
Speaker
see what you did there. Sometimes. Sometimes dead is better. Again. Sometimes dad is better. Sometimes dad is better. That should actually be that should be the tagline of this podcast.
01:44:10
Speaker
Don't want to come down that road.
01:44:14
Speaker
Ground up there, Sour. as long as it's As long as it's Herman Muster and not the dude from the Night Flyer, fuck that dude. I will also accept John Lithgow. but yeah Oh yeah, I'd take John Lithgow too, yeah.
01:44:26
Speaker
For sure. Yeah, he was the reason I was excited for that Pet Sematary remake, and then I watched it, and I went, oh, and okay, never mind.
01:44:35
Speaker
You guys, I'd like to do at some point, don't put this on the schedule. Steven put it on the list. We should do it on Enfranchised on Pet Sematary 2. with Eddie Furlong and Clancy Brown because I fucking love that movie. And I think you
Conclusion & Reflections
01:44:47
Speaker
guys, I don't know if you'd like it, but I think you get a kick out of it.
01:44:49
Speaker
Not surprised me at all. And look, like like we have a like we have a schedule for the Patreon. We just kind of do things as we think of them. I'm just saying, it's not, I'm not going to pressure you about it I'm not going annoy you about it It's just something to throw on the list. heard that before. No, you haven't. Cause normally I just pester you and annoy you about it. Yeah, that's true. oh This time i'm I'm letting you know that this is not extremely important to me. It's just something I'd like to put on the list to get to eventually.
01:45:12
Speaker
and okay Band meeting over. a We did it, you guys. We did it. All right. And that's i don't know. That's it. That's all. Bye, everybody. Love you. Bye. but i need
01:45:45
Speaker
Bye.