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15- Internal Family Systems... The Follow Up
18 Plays19 days ago
Erin Boreo is back! Charlotte and Patti report on their Internal Family Systems (IFS) homework--reading and listening to Richard Schwartz's book, No Bad Parts, and listened to episodes of the podcasts The One Inside: An Internal Family System Podcast and Purely IFS.
We discuss how our parts showed up in different ways in the homework, in our lives, and even our art! How does the popularity and language of IFS bring out our skeptical parts?
[24:00-34:00] And then...Erin guides us (and you) through a meditation from No Bad Parts. We share what comes up for us before moving into a review of the accessibility of IFS.
Interested in trying IFS therapy? Find therapists in your area on Psychology Today, IFS Institute, TherapyDen or Open Path. If you're in the Denver area, Erin is on Psychology today and accepting new clients.
Some other ways to engage in IFS on your own are through podcasts, YouTube, and apps, including Insight Timer.
Logo design: Marielle Martin
Song: Upbeat Drums with Stomps and Claps by music_for_video
BlueSky: @canweinterestyouin.bsky.social
Instagram: @canweinterestyouin
Email us your interests! CanWeInterestYouIn@gmail.com
Website: CanWeInterestYouIn.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Listener Engagement
00:00:00
Speaker
You know that thing you love that your friends and family don't want to hear about anymore? Tell it to us, Patty and Charlotte. We want to learn all about your weird and wild obsessions or your perfectly normal hobbies that you've taken just a little too far.
00:00:15
Speaker
We want to dabble in your curious interests. Can we interest you in today's episode?
Welcoming Erin Boreo and IFS Discussion
00:00:34
Speaker
Hi, Charlotte. Hi, Patty. And hi Erin Boreo. Thank you for rejoining us. We're so excited to have you. hi Charlotte and Patty.
00:00:45
Speaker
Nice to be back. really This is our follow-up to the internal family systems conversation that we had last time around. So we're going to check in on our homework.
00:00:58
Speaker
Yeah. um Patty, what did you do for homework? Hmm. Yes. So I did get the... I'm holding it up.
00:01:09
Speaker
The No Bad Parts. Hey, Aaron's got a matching set. um So this is Dick Schwartz, but Richard C. Schwartz on the cover. um His...
00:01:21
Speaker
Healing Trauma and Restoring Wholeness with the Internal Family Systems Model. um I got the paperback version. And so I read about half of it. And i also ended up listening to some episodes of a couple of podcasts.
00:01:35
Speaker
um The One Inside, an internal family systems podcast, is one of the podcasts that I listen to. And that one seems to be pretty regular. She's even had Dick on as a guest at least once.
00:01:48
Speaker
So I listened to one of the early ones where they were talking about kind of explaining internal family systems and then a couple of others. It's like they take different topics. She takes different topics. And then I also listened Purely IFS, which is a podcast. I think they're either...
00:02:04
Speaker
They have accents. um And so they're either either in the UK or maybe Australia. It's no longer posting new episodes, but it was really interesting and kind of fun. So that's what I did for my homework.
00:02:22
Speaker
Yeah, I have I know that I have the the book at home somewhere, but. my messy part that loses things can't find it.
00:02:33
Speaker
So I got it from the library and audio book, which was actually kind of cool because then Dick Schwartz is like reading the um meditations or exercises. So it's like, he's talking right to you.
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah. The only bad thing is like, I'd be listening in the car and then one of those would come up and I'd be like, Probably not a good time to do it. But then after a while, I was like, maybe. So sometimes i don't do this. You really shouldn't do this.
00:02:59
Speaker
Sometimes I did the exercises while driving and they were like veer off to the side of the road. suddenly like that we go um I'll just say they were they were less effective and when you're driving, but sometimes still a little bit effective.
00:03:12
Speaker
um And so I got I probably. read or listened to about 75% of it. I'm close, close to the end. So keeps going yeah, and it was
Personal Reflections on Therapy and Approval Seeking
00:03:24
Speaker
really good. Actually, Charlotte, was it last week or the week before when you and i were just talking about other things?
00:03:30
Speaker
And i brought up that I'm reading the book, but every time they get to the part where it's like an exercise or whatever, I'm like, I won't be able to do it. I can't do it. It's not going to work for me. And Charlotte was like, it sounds like one of your parts is talking to you about that. And I was like, oh, my God, it is. It's a part.
00:03:50
Speaker
So then later when I got to um it's like page forty one. In the the book, but it it was one of the session transcripts, which I was like, oh, this is so cool that he does a session transcript. So you can kind of like see it in action and get a sense of how would you do this?
00:04:08
Speaker
But at one point, so it's Sam is the person and they actually were recording it for Sam's podcast, which I didn't listen to because it's on SoundCloud. And I just have an aversion to it, but that's for reasons that are not logical. It's like, whatever.
00:04:25
Speaker
But he's like talking about this younger self that was bullied. And so that's who he's approaching. And so at one point he's like, okay, you know, you're talking to the 13 year old. And so what does he want to tell you? And he's like, well, I've just done so much thinking about this that I'm having trouble separating out the assumptions from memories And Dick tells him that's another part.
00:04:49
Speaker
And so like I have this major desire. I remember even when I was doing EMDR where I would just like want to say the right thing or in therapy I do this a lot where I'm like I want to preemptively be like I know that this is this and this or I want to say the right answer or be like the but my one of my little cousins used to be like ask my teacher my sister who was a teacher at the time all the time like who's the goodest one in your class like I always want to be the goodest one.
00:05:15
Speaker
but So I want to say the right answer. And I was like, oh, that's a part, you know? So like even that where it's like, okay, if you're not, because there's another point just a little bit later where he's like, oh, I'm actually no longer in contact with the little boy. Like he feels far away. And he's like, okay, so someone's blocking. Like another part is blocking.
00:05:38
Speaker
And I was like, okay, that's cool too. Because so often I would just like want to make something up to make it work. versus like acknowledging like oh this is all part of it it's not just like i'm incapable of doing it or i'm doing it wrong or that i should make something up to make it work so that was really really cool ah definitely find that that happens a lot with people um whether it's it's uh i'm trying to do it right or whether it's um that i mean a lot a ton of people come in with like an uh at
00:06:15
Speaker
an analyst or a thinking part, a figure it out part um who, and I notice it in the language that they use. um And I will, I will jump in and be like, are you, is that a guess or are you asking the part?
00:06:31
Speaker
and ah And often they'll come back. All right, I'm guessing. So, okay. Can you ask that one who's trying to figure it out? If they'll just like take a step back and trust you, like you got this.
00:06:43
Speaker
you we're just here to get information. It doesn't have to be any specific thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really cool way to like approach it versus feeling like, oh, I'm incapable or I'm not able or whatever the things are. It's like, that's a part, that's a part, that's a part, you know, like, okay, cool. We're doing the work.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah.
Fear of Obsession and Popularity of IFS
00:07:05
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like that conversation that we had, Patty, was also really helpful for me because
00:07:12
Speaker
in reading this and in trying it out and all of this, at like a very big part comes up for me of like, i And it's the thing that that then Patty pointed out, I said in our anime follow-up episode, where I was like, I really am interested in this, but like I'm worried that I will get like completely absorbed in it and I'll become kind of like engulfed in it and obsessed with it.
00:07:38
Speaker
And this is like a constant fear that I have of like like something's going to... you know like i have this idea that i'm a person who would be easily swept up into a cult or like something where it's it's like that's some kind of fear i've got um but what's interesting also about that is i was thinking about um like writing and i you know i'm working on a novel that i've been working on for a long time
00:08:09
Speaker
and one of my characters has that same fear but like with religion and so i felt like okay in some ways writing is also like a way of like you're you're basically externalizing your parts like you can see not necessarily that what you're writing is like your parts specifically but you're gonna put some of that in there and it's like all just a way to kind of like get to know them better maybe or observe them a little better Oh, yeah, that's so interesting.
00:08:39
Speaker
Like a part almost being like, you know how so often when you're when people create art, then they'll ask like, oh, okay, so are you? Is there a part of you that's in that role or in that that character in the story or whatever? And it's like,
00:08:55
Speaker
Yeah, there might be a couple of parts of you that are. Yeah, but scattered through all throughout all the characters. But this part of like being afraid of like being engulfed or absorbed is like, I think in part it's because um IFS is like very, very like gaining popularity now. And so anything like that, where that's the case, I'm like automatically skeptical. I'm like,
00:09:21
Speaker
okay, all right, hold on, let's pump the brakes, you know, and so there's that going on for me. Sure, yeah, it feels like a bandwagon kind of moment.
00:09:31
Speaker
Even while I love a lot of the things that he wrote about. So it's like, it's both. Yeah, um I definitely remember in the course of my of my level one training, there were moments that my in, in you know, breakout dyads or like small groups or whatever, every so often somebody would bring up the idea that like, does this feel a little
Therapy Language and Perceptions
00:09:54
Speaker
culty to you? And and and other people would be like, mean, maybe a little bit, but I mean, not in the most evil kind of culty ways. There's still,
00:10:04
Speaker
There's still a lot of a lot of like take it or leave it and kind of choice involved. thankfully Well, isn't all of therapy kind of culty? You know, I mean, it can feel that way. Like, and it's interesting you say that because in in listening to the podcast, that was one of the biggest turnoffs was the language that's used sometimes. It's like in in you know, some of the conversations and it might just be that they were more these people, but it was so kind of like that new agey real, like, I don't know. I wish I could even think of an example and I thought I wrote it down, but where I'm like, Ooh, I don't want to be a part of this, but I'm like, but I like what you're saying. I just don't like how you're saying it.
00:10:48
Speaker
I struggle with that as a practitioner sometimes. Like I am, I think by nature, a skeptic. um i I want there to be evidence.
00:10:59
Speaker
i i you know i keep I keep track of of the new you know research studies to come out and that kind of thing because I want to be able to hold it up and say, like, see, this is not this is not crystals and essential oils. like there's there's It's real even though you know it's not it doesn't have worksheets.
00:11:21
Speaker
It doesn't have
Comparing Therapies: CBT vs IFS
00:11:23
Speaker
assessments. like you know CBT and DBT and those kind of things. um It's not as much a set of skills, except I have had clients be like, let's do some more of those exercises that we were doing the other day. And in my head, I don't think of it as like an exercise, but it absolutely is. it you know There's like at the six Fs, right? um So there are steps. I just don't think of it that way because
00:11:53
Speaker
Like as a, I don't know, skills feel clunky to me. Skills feel more like treating a symptom. Whereas as everything about you know IFS feels a lot more like getting at the root of things and like changing patterns from the ground up.
00:12:09
Speaker
um But, that and at the same time, it can feel very woo-woo. I have a part that will listen to me in session with clients and be like, what the,
00:12:23
Speaker
come on now. And I just have to be like, it works though. You know, it does. You've seen it happen. Right.
00:12:33
Speaker
Yeah. I did a lot of like trying to, while reading and and doing some of this, trying to be like, how can I do this with clients or with myself without the terminology? And then is that going to be damaging? And then like, how can I integrate this with what I've learned before?
00:12:51
Speaker
And then also, can people take medication or is that some kind of protector? you know, like having a lot of anxiety, a lot about it. I guess it's probably the analytical part, skeptical part, which, you know, is is important because like we all want to do good as therapists. And then they're saying, like, if you you know, don't ask for permission from a protector part, they're going to come back and get you. And I'm like, oh, no.
00:13:20
Speaker
Right. Right.
Medication's Role in Therapy
00:13:22
Speaker
Yeah, the medication thing is interesting because like when you when you learn EMDR, you learn that like it, of course, is normal for people to come in already on medication.
00:13:32
Speaker
and you know a lot of the times that might be necessary to help them be stable enough to do the work. But when you've reprocessed things and if the person gets to a point that they don't feel like they need the medication anymore, then EMDR training says,
00:13:52
Speaker
you should go back and check on the stuff that you reprocessed while they were on the medication once they're off it in case there's anything left behind the the medication was kind of like.
00:14:04
Speaker
Dulling or. Yeah, dulling or walking. um I don't remember learning anything specific about that with regard to IFS. um But I mean, yes, people are on medications all the time when I do this with them.
00:14:18
Speaker
That's kind of what I figured. And that it's going to if somebody is having trouble concentrating or remembering or like doing the basic tasks of life that like they might need something a little, little quicker to, to help them be able to be in their life.
00:14:34
Speaker
and Or even feel like okay enough to be talking, you know, like allowing those to kind of parts to come up or talk to them or.
00:14:47
Speaker
Right. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, there's no IFSing your way out of, like neurodivergence, for example. So if you take ah you know an ADHD stimulant or something, then that's just going to be the way it is. And it's not ah it's not like a problem that a part can get rid of. That's just not how we're wired. Yeah, I was wondering about that. So thank you for saying that.
00:15:13
Speaker
Yes, I was taught that like the self is has ADHD or like the self is autistic. It's not as though those are parts that you can, you know, parts will have ways that they might enact those things.
00:15:31
Speaker
So like a part needing comfort might, you know, stim in a specific kind of way, but there's, but like, but the self is what it is. And that can include things like autistic or ADHD or, um you know, cognitively impaired in some kind of way, if you've got, you know, whether it's genetic or like, a TBI or something like that.
00:15:55
Speaker
That's just the way you are. And, you know, that's how the system is. So, and the cell is um so it's just working with the parts in that constellation.
Connecting with the Authentic Self
00:16:08
Speaker
Yeah. Then it's my ADHD part that lost the book. i do I do identify with that diagnosis and have taken medication for it in the past, but it lost the book.
00:16:22
Speaker
And that's myself. So. but And look, you found a way to get another version and to listen to it And it was pretty cool because I got to listen to Dick Schwartz himself talk to me ah about uh,
00:16:37
Speaker
my parts. Yeah. It's kind of like you went to his, did you hear when he was like, every year i go to Big Sur, California for a like a conference or whatever, or like a retreat. And I was like, I want to go. like But so it's basically like you had a private session with him, quite a few actually.
00:16:56
Speaker
ah More and more, I've been seeing those things too, where it's like a retreat for IFS, you know, and that, that kind of like like get trained, but get trained over the course of like six days in, you know, Caribbean. Some beautiful place. Yeah, some tropical. Yeah.
00:17:16
Speaker
you yeah the Yeah, the EMDR consultant who introduced me to IFS at the agency that we used to work at, um I think ah leads those like at least once a year.
00:17:28
Speaker
my God. Nice. Yeah. That's awesome. And expensive. So haven't ever done it, may never do it. So um I realized like the self I've like, when I was in therapy before, and then I did this like kind of spiritual direction thing at work.
00:17:49
Speaker
um It wasn't like during it. It wasn't for work, but it was at work, whatever. And my goal for years has been like just to like feel more in tune with like my authentic self. And so I keep like this self has I'm like, yes, this this is like what I've been wanting. And so it just feels like I'm being brought closer to getting there, you know, like.
00:18:17
Speaker
finding a way to actually do that because um talking around it just hasn't really, I'm, I'm all of those parts are like protecting me from, you know, doing it.
00:18:28
Speaker
And then um I've been taking this class, like it's three, it's at the YMCA. Anybody can take it, you know, but it just happens to occur on like Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. And it's in the morning. And i like have been going for like a couple months now and on Wednesday. i didn't go Monday because I was sick. And so Wednesday when I was getting ready to leave the house, I was like,
00:18:51
Speaker
oh, I bet my teacher's going be really annoyed that I show up today. And I was like, whoa, that's a part of you that has like strong beliefs about like, A, like why would a teacher care that someone's showing up to their class? Like if anything, you know, but I was like, that's definitely a strong part that has a very loud voice in my head that like,
00:19:15
Speaker
is really telling me a lot of things. So it's just been, it's just been very, very eyeopening. And I'm still really scared. I'm noticing to do any of the um exercises, like to actually do it.
00:19:30
Speaker
So, yeah. how How are we feeling then?
IFS Exercise Preparation
00:19:36
Speaker
And by we, I mean, all of our parts feeling about the fact that Aaron is going to guide us through an exercise. Good.
00:19:44
Speaker
Yeah, no, good. I do feel good about it. Like, i feel more nervous doing things on my own with it. So I feel better that like, it's with the two of you.
00:19:58
Speaker
feel kind of like that too. Like, it's a little harder. Like, Aaron, I think you had said last time. it feels harder to do it on your own. Yeah, I would definitely agree with that.
00:20:09
Speaker
Which is why Charlotte made this indecent proposal. Yeah, but we won't make you unburden us today. No. unless you Unless you want to.
00:20:20
Speaker
No crying in the library.
00:20:25
Speaker
Do we want to get to that and see how it goes? All right. Yeah. Did you have anything else, Charlotte, for your homework? um I did want to say, i mean it kind of takes us in a little bit of a different direction, but um but I'm also taking this like other kind of class, kind of coaching thing. And it's with this person who like, I think I may, I don't know if I've talked about her before. I would like internalize capitalism. I think I took like a class that she,
00:20:53
Speaker
did. It was about related to like burnout and she's Australian and her name is Laura Hartley and her like center is called scintilla center.
00:21:04
Speaker
Anyway, this is like a coaching, like acts of beauty and defiance, like kind of like creating acts of beauty and defiance. And so she talks a lot about systems and she actually references Danella Meadows a lot, which he references in this book,
00:21:19
Speaker
too, and Danella Meadows' is systems, um you know, teachings. And so that was really cool to kind of be reading this and thinking about systems in our world at the same time and how those can kind of go together and then points of leverage. And a lot of times, even like in ourselves and in external systems, it's like the stories that we have about ourselves or about the world. um So just want to say that that's kind of like a nice overlap that I was experiencing.
00:21:59
Speaker
Yeah. And how Dick even said, like, he was able to work on the internal family parts work or like kind of come up with it so easily because of the systems work. Like it was like, oh, okay, this fits into systems. You have to kind of, I mean, you don't have to know it, but knowing it helps to put some structure to it or understanding of like, how do these parts work?
00:22:27
Speaker
And yeah, that's just so interesting to think like how, like what your current situation is, like the time you live in the where you live in, like what your system is, even like could be different from like five years ago and like how your parts do or don't.
00:22:50
Speaker
act differently or I don't know. I mean, I'm wondering like if that's related to like how you are is going to be, it's going to be affected by the system that you're in. So if you're in an extremely dysfunctional system, like capitalism,
00:23:08
Speaker
but but for example or okay, let's say you're in prison, right? Yeah. Your system's going to be responding maybe differently than if you're in Sweden, not in prison.
00:23:18
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, like you develop protectors to help you cope with things that are happening internally, but also externally. Yeah, yeah.
00:23:30
Speaker
All right. So let's put some of our work to the test. And any listeners, feel free to do this meditation yourself that Erin's going to guide us through.
00:23:42
Speaker
And feel free to try this at home, but not while you're driving, preferably. especially if you're like me and you need to close your eyes for it Please do not do this behind the wheel. I kept my eyes open. Don't worry.
00:23:58
Speaker
um So this is coming from the and the aforementioned book, No Bad Parts by dick Schwartz.
Guided IFS Exercise with Erin
00:24:05
Speaker
I'm going to be doing a it's the it the very first exercise in chapter one.
00:24:11
Speaker
It's called getting to know a protector. um I'm going to issue a ah caveat to everybody who's doing this for the first time. I myself struggle with meditations that are kind of like for groups or for whoever, because my system often moves at a pace that is very different from that of, you know, like the pace of the person who's doing the reading.
00:24:39
Speaker
So if you are struggling to catch up or if you're finding that the pauses that I'm giving are longer than you need, that totally makes sense. I have had to completely so like step out of group meditations, so you know, figuratively in the past because I just like, I can't, whether it's the sound of the person's voice or whether it's the pacing or just like, I can't get into it.
00:25:01
Speaker
If that is your experience, I find that to be totally normal. So I just wanted to put that out there. So I'm going to try to strike a good pace that will hopefully give people time without being too much.
00:25:17
Speaker
Okay, um I'm gonna be, I mean, I'm reading from the book. I'm gonna be sort of editorializing as I go if I think it would be helpful.
00:25:30
Speaker
Okay, definitely take a second and get comfortable. If you are an experienced meditator, do what you would normally do if you were gonna meditate. If this is the first time for you, it's just good to be in a,
00:25:45
Speaker
just whatever kind of comfortable, like neutral position, sitting or laying down, if that's your thing. If it helps you to take deep breaths or even just pay attention to your normal breathing rhythm in order to focus on your internal experience, then you can go ahead and do that. once year So once you find yourself feeling sufficiently internally tuned in, I want you to do a scan of your body and your mind, noting any thoughts, emotions, sensations, or impulses that stand out.
00:26:34
Speaker
It's very much like a mindfulness practice where you just notice what's there and get some separation from.
00:26:45
Speaker
I'm gonna give you a moment to just observe.
00:27:06
Speaker
So as you do that, see if one of those thoughts, emotions, sensations, or impulses is calling to you, seems to want your attention, or is taking up more space than some of the others.
00:27:28
Speaker
If you do notice one like that, try to focus on it exclusively for a minute and see if you can notice where it seems to be located in your body or around your body.
00:27:49
Speaker
You can also notice things like how you experience it. There might be an image. There might be
00:28:02
Speaker
ah sensation that is not just in one spot, but might have to do with movement. I think of like a shrug as a gesture, for example.
00:28:15
Speaker
can show up in a lot of different ways.
00:28:20
Speaker
So as you notice, notice how you feel toward it. Do you dislike it? Does it annoy you?
00:28:33
Speaker
Is it scary? Do you want to get rid of it? Do you maybe depend on it? Do you feel protective of it, perhaps parental?
00:28:48
Speaker
So here we're just noticing that you have a relationship with this thought, emotion, sensation, or impulse. If you feel anything besides a kind of openness or curiosity or compassion toward it, then ask the parts of you that might not like it or are afraid of it or have any other extreme feeling about it to just relax maybe take a step back and give you a little space to get to know that thought, emotion, or sensation without any kind of attitude or interference.
00:29:36
Speaker
If you can't get to that curious open place, that's okay. You can spend this time talking to those parts of you that do not want to relax about letting you interact with the target emotion get to know what their concerns are and what they think might happen if they did give you that space.
00:30:00
Speaker
But if you can get into that mindfully curious place relative to that initial target, then it's safe to begin to interact
00:30:12
Speaker
That might feel a little weird if this is your first time, but I invite you to give it a try.
00:30:20
Speaker
So as you focus on this emotion, impulse, sensation, and you notice it in this place in or around your body, start just by asking if there's something it wants you to know, something it needs to share with you, and then wait for an answer.
00:30:44
Speaker
If you find yourself trying to guess what it might be, invite that part of you that is a little more on the analytical side to take that step back and let you handle this.
00:30:58
Speaker
And just wait silently with your focus on that part or that place in your body until an answer comes in some form.
00:31:08
Speaker
And if nothing comes, that's okay too and not unusual.
00:31:31
Speaker
If you get an answer, then as a follow-up, you can ask what this part is afraid would happen if it didn't do what it does for you.
00:31:45
Speaker
What's it afraid would happen if it didn't do this job that it has?
00:31:57
Speaker
If it answers that question, then you probably learned something about how it's trying to protect you. If that is true, then see if it's possible to extend some appreciation to it for at least trying to keep you safe.
00:32:16
Speaker
And then see how it responds to that appreciation for you
00:32:30
Speaker
You can also ask this part what it needs from you in the future.
00:32:47
Speaker
When the time feels right, no hurry. You can shift your focus back to the outside world and notice, you know, sort of Reground yourself in your physical space in your body.
00:33:02
Speaker
But also thank your parts, whichever ones you encountered, for whatever they allowed you to do. And let them know that this is not their last chance to have a conversation or interaction with you because you plan to get to know them even more.
00:33:31
Speaker
Thanks, Erin. Yeah, thank you, Erin.
00:33:37
Speaker
Well, which of us wants to go first?
00:33:45
Speaker
They're down.
00:33:50
Speaker
I can go. Okay. Um, It's interesting for me, like it's sort of like vague parts sometimes, but then clear parts, but then there's a lot of that, like, like when
00:34:15
Speaker
there's almost like too many, either too many parts or one part that's kind of like getting in the way. But the first thing that came up for me was like, oh my gosh,
00:34:26
Speaker
I'm talking about ADHD on like a podcast that people I know listen to, and I haven't really talked about it too much, even though I think anybody who knows me could probably guess it just by looking at the trunk of my car and the inside of my car.
00:34:43
Speaker
So it's like not a surprise. I just don't really talk about it much. So it was like this part that's like, oh no, you know, like you've been trying to like act like you you can be clean and on top of things.
00:34:57
Speaker
Actually, I never really tried to act like that. It's not it's not really a thing that I've done. But um so then it's kind of like this, um you know, it's like a part that's very,
00:35:13
Speaker
appreciated and because it kind of like keeps me on track but also a part that's like like okay I gotta keep things in line you know otherwise everything's gonna fall apart like a jello mold you know and so that's kind of what was going on for me we're If it's not too much, where did you feel it?
00:35:34
Speaker
I felt it like on my skin is like an entire encasement, I think. Oh, so it is like a jello mold. Yeah, yeah. I think yeah that's a good point. i didn't even think of that. Wow.
00:35:46
Speaker
Yeah, at first it was unclear. It was like, and then i was like, it's it yeah, I think it's just like holding everything together. Mm-hmm.
00:35:57
Speaker
Yeah. But there's also like, there's some like, you know, shoulder stuff that is like a very much, because what I did do one of these exercises or like a couple of these exercises, but the one where you have to draw your parts.
00:36:11
Speaker
And so i drew a few different ones that are kind of related. So there's like one that's like, go, go, go. Always need to like, you know, you're always behind on something. you Always need to, and it's like this weight, you know, the shoulder on the shoulders.
00:36:25
Speaker
And then there's, you know, one that's like, ah is It started out just as like this angry line, you know? And that's like ah like a defensiveness rage one.
00:36:38
Speaker
So there's probably like some mix of of those. and definitely, it's it's always fascinating to me how people experience their parts.
00:36:51
Speaker
um And a lot of times, you know, if you've and if I've got a client who, like for whom this is new, and who has a little bit of worry about how they come off to other people, they'll be a little bit like hesitant or or say something like, is this weird? And I'll be like, no weirder than the way that any other part has ever shown up in anyone else's system. No.
00:37:17
Speaker
They're like, a I have yet to be shocked by something that is so beyond my scope of understanding how a part would show up. So yeah. Yeah, it's cool.
00:37:29
Speaker
I, yeah, it's hard to imagine what that would be be like, but it's kind of, that's the cool part about it is that it's like ex accepting and acknowledging any part in however it wants to show up. And I think that's why a lot of different types of therapies are effective because it's like that, that acceptance rather than exiling or shunning, you know.
00:37:54
Speaker
Right. And like the title says, no bad parts. And it's nice when it is just a part of you. Like this is not who you are. So even if it's rude or like mean or whatever, it's like, okay, that's not you.
00:38:08
Speaker
who Yeah, it's not the whole the whole of who you are. Yeah, mine was really similar, Charlotte, in that it was kind of like the ah anxious, like, do do, do, do, do. Because, like, I was, like, trying to relax. And then it and i found it in my, like, a pain in my eye, almost like a fluttering.
00:38:28
Speaker
And... I was like, oh think thinking of the things that I should be doing, you know, like when you make your mental list and whatever. And I was like, no.
00:38:40
Speaker
And the word that it kept telling me when I was like, okay, what, you know, what would happen if you stopped? It was like, oh, everything, you know, it's slovenly was the word that just kept coming up. And it was like,
00:38:53
Speaker
okay yeah like everything would fall apart and it felt um like it was really resentful and so when i thanked it it was like a weird almost like as if in my stomach like as if it were um kind of a like a blob of some sort um but it was like in my stomach like going back and forth like this.
00:39:20
Speaker
And like, it felt like, as if it were almost like a baby or like a, like a small puppy that was like, you know, like trying to like hug you, but doesn't have arms. And so i was like, oh okay.
00:39:33
Speaker
You just want to feel appreciated. And I'm like, yeah, I, I hear that. Like, I know that part very well.
00:39:42
Speaker
Very cool. That makes me feel like more connected to you because we both are like that slovenly part, stay inside. but you know, but also kind of like, you know, appreciate some sort of element of like letting go, you know?
00:40:01
Speaker
h Yeah. Thank you for doing that for us. Oh, you're very welcome. Thank you for giving it a try. It's a brave thing, especially when knowing that people are going to be hearing you talk about it There's going to be nines of people listening.
00:40:20
Speaker
Moms everywhere. dad potentially. Maybe an uncle or two. Definitely. Shout out to Uncle Jim. I know he listens. Thank you for listening. Yes, Uncle Jim, let us know if you do any of these parts exercises.
00:40:33
Speaker
yeah um Well, any other things before we talk about accessibility? No. Anything coming up for you, Erin?
Balancing Enthusiasm with Skepticism
00:40:45
Speaker
I know, well, I guess I do want to speak to what you were saying, Charlotte, about the fear of um getting into something that just kind of takes over your entire being. Yes, thank you. i i I think I mentioned the first time around that this is something that I have been aware of and learning more about since 2018. And um i joke half joke that I feel like I've gotten obnoxious about it, but I think that's mostly in my head because, um, of course I talk about it a lot in the context of like actual therapy and how I work with people and and that kind of thing.
00:41:27
Speaker
But, um, I've been, I've been good enough about reigning in the impulse to just scream at people about it in my everyday life. Like I have, um,
00:41:38
Speaker
you know, friends on Facebook who will post sort of angsty things about, you know, the anxiety goblins in their mind. And my, my instinct is like, Oh my God, are you in therapy? And have you tried IFS? But I don't say that because that's obnoxious.
00:41:53
Speaker
So even though it is absolutely really helpful. Well, I try, like, I will tell you about it if you ask me about it, but I'm not just going to go slinging on, you know,
00:42:07
Speaker
unrequested advice around. um That's, yeah, a lot of people are bothered by that. So I try to keep that in mind. But um it absolutely has everything to do with how I how i like think about how people work.
00:42:23
Speaker
But thankfully, i think I'm more obnoxious about like being from the Pittsburgh area than I am about being an IFS therapist. so It hasn't completely taken over my personality.
00:42:37
Speaker
so And I feel like for me, because am pretty into acceptance and commitment therapy to to a certain degree. And so some of it like really resonated with me about the just observing of like those parts, because there's a part of ah acceptance and commitment therapy that's like cognitive diffusion where you sort of non-judgmentally observe what's going on in your mind.
00:43:04
Speaker
I think for me, there's also like the part where it gets to like all the the terms and terminology and and like burdens and um exiles that then I start to get that overwhelmed feeling of like, oh my God, there's a lot to learn. There's a lot to like, it to eat you know, and then also like the labeling of things can be useful, but then that starts to like feel like, oh, that's a lot. So yeah, it's it's maybe also the fact that I was listening to the book in like a week's time because like, you know, i kind of had to like wait to get it. And then, so um it was like, okay, this is a little overwhelming, but i think absorbing it slower.
00:43:50
Speaker
i do see like a lot of applications for it in, in everyday life and he even like references our current president and all of his ah protector parts of which there are many many mitney many they are many and they are extreme yeah destructive yes yeah so i hear you on the terminology and i i i definitely for anybody who is thinking of pursuing this as a client, you don't have to know any of it.
00:44:25
Speaker
That is um a true to keep track of, you know, tracking what your internal system is like. And, you know, if a client doesn't like the word part and they want to say something like aspect or a voice or whatever, we go with whatever language they use.
00:44:43
Speaker
And, you know, if they don't know, like what the healing steps are, who cares? It's not their job. You know, their job is just to be in it.
00:44:54
Speaker
Um, so as a practitioner, you have to know all that stuff as a client, you're not responsible for any of it as long as you just show up and be authentic. So yeah, it's the practitioner side of me. That's, that's freaking out. But, um,
00:45:08
Speaker
But speaking of being on the client side, like that does bring me to kind of the accessibility part, which is that like my, I'm doing the, you know, marketplace insurance and I think I have like this deductible that is like nowhere close to met. So I believe any kind of therapy would like outright cost me um just the amount that it costs. So I think for like you know, people who can, you know, their insurance covers the therapy, like it's probably, it's pretty accessible because there's a lot of people who practice it now.
00:45:42
Speaker
Right. Yeah. There are a lot, there are definitely a lot more. Um, like if you use a directory like psychology today, IFS is one of the types of therapy that you can filter for.
00:45:57
Speaker
Um, however, of the, That just means that the therapist who's making their profile says the that they know about IFS. It doesn't necessarily indicate what kind of training they've had.
00:46:08
Speaker
So if you really, really want somebody who's got specific levels of training, there's the IFS Institute. They keep a directory of people who have like received varying levels of training. I'm on it.
00:46:22
Speaker
um And I mean, depending on how well you keep it up, you know, right like level one, level two, level three, if you are certified or just trained, if you're a consultant or not, where you're located, if you're taking new clients, that kind of thing.
00:46:40
Speaker
Cool. There are other
Therapy Accessibility and Resources
00:46:42
Speaker
directories. I know some people have have a little bit of issues with psychology today, which are totally valid. There are other directories like Open Path and Therapy Den and and things like that.
00:46:55
Speaker
I think at least one of those is particularly good for therapists who are willing to do like sliding scale fees for people who who either don't have insurance or whose insurance still makes therapy unaffordable.
00:47:10
Speaker
And then there are smaller directories that are geared more towards like certain demographics. um So I just wanted to mention that, you know, psychology today is the biggest one, but it is, but you know, far and away not the only one.
00:47:25
Speaker
Um, and there are others that are really good about things like accessibility since we're talking about that, you know? So like, are you, i don't think psychology today has anything about like, if you have, um, a sensory impairment or are looking for a therapist who understands what it's like to be say blind or chronically ill or something like that.
00:47:48
Speaker
Um, so I guess that's just how you would find IFS therapists in the different directories. so Cool. That's very useful.
00:47:59
Speaker
I think like once you, you know, like once you have the coverage, yeah, it's pretty, pretty easy. um But yeah, there's plenty of people who don't really have, or, you know, maybe they have only Medicaid.
00:48:15
Speaker
And then in which case they're gonna have to come to Aaron because not that many people. Although I think it was gaining popularity like at where we used to work too. So there was like, there were lots of um clinicians getting trained in it.
00:48:32
Speaker
Yeah, even like I used to be on UnitedHealthcare, and that's one that is pretty bad for like the they have their own group of people. But I know like my therapist who I was seeing at the time was like, they they make it really hard to get into their system because they kind of want you to go through their clinicians. And so um even if you are insured, sometimes it's just getting therapy in general is pretty tricky.
00:48:59
Speaker
Yes. True. Yeah. And sometimes for a while, I think it's less the case now, but there was a while where like everybody had wait list practically. Right. just I mean, I think that was like pandemic and immediately post pandemic time. Yeah.
00:49:14
Speaker
Yeah, so true. But the fact that there is so much popularity around it, like a friend of mine was saying, oh, yeah, one of my colleagues was just talking about this. And then someone else from like, you know, one of their groups. And I was like, once you hear it, you hear it everywhere. But, you know, as Aaron said, it's definitely gaining popularity. And I know, Charlotte, you said the same. so I do feel like there's a lot of media out there and ways to engage with it to at least learn about it.
00:49:41
Speaker
um Of course, with any of that, you have to kind of be careful about the messaging or who it's coming from or or things like that. But the fact that you could get, you know, the no bad parts at the library on an audio book is pretty accessible.
00:49:59
Speaker
Yeah, at um the Denver library, I'm still on a wait list for the the print version, but but um on like Hoopla, like i think some other library, it was immediately available on the audiobook when I checked. So it just, it kind of depended.
00:50:17
Speaker
Yeah. So check around. It also seems like he makes himself pretty, Dick Schwartz, that is, makes himself pretty accessible. He was on quite a few different podcast episodes.
00:50:31
Speaker
So I thought that was pretty cool that it's like he's out there, he's talking about it. It's not like the man behind the curtain. i will say that um i think that there's a certain element of it like related to of what I was saying about the the terminology and conceptualizing some of it. So i think that kind of what you were saying, Erin, about like using any terms that make sense for you and then maybe finding a therapist who like can adjust it for you if let's say like, let's just say like cognitively there's some sort of like um something getting in the way of like understanding it the way that it's presented in the book.
00:51:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, for sure. It's like I think about um people who who don't have a mind's eye, you know who don't see visual images in their mind. I just, I try to keep track of of who that's true for and I just leave out you know language around images because I know that's not applicable, for example.
00:51:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. That's kind of what I was thinking is like, to to what degree do people like talk to themselves versus see things versus like just sense things right yeah and um like I'll use oh I'll use objects sometimes I was gonna say this is where your stuffed animals come in handy yeah ah the stuffed animals or the illustrated cards or even I have a candy dish on my coffee table in my office and I'll just pull out like what color starburst is this or something so that can be helpful and then
00:52:11
Speaker
ah I mean, even ah in a tactile kind of way, if you have somebody who's who's like visually impaired to some extent or another, then just having something besides just the words and the abstracts, the abstract concepts to help help sort of externalize and ground things can be really helpful.
00:52:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's very cool. like the, the, even just like candy. Yeah. A lot of room for creativity and spontaneity and just like making it work.
00:52:44
Speaker
Yeah. Very cool. Any last thoughts or questions? Well, Erin, is there anything that you want to promote? um I mean, if you live anywhere in Colorado and are looking for an IFS therapist, I have a Psychology Today profile, so you can see if I take your insurance. At the moment, I have a waitlist, but it's not very long. And depending on when you listen to this, that may or may not be true.
00:53:14
Speaker
But I don't and't really have any socials to promote. I guess just there are, speaking of accessibility, there are as you've mentioned already, Patti, a lot of different podcasts about ah IFS, as well as apps for like IFS meditations.
00:53:34
Speaker
um ah There's good old YouTube. um And then there are services like Insight Timer, has a lot of IFS specific meditations.
00:53:47
Speaker
um There are also apps that ah clients have actually looked up and and introduced me to like, um I'm just opening one up on my phone right now to remind me of what it's called. It's like IFS guide.
00:54:02
Speaker
um So there are a lot of options other than just like the books and a lot of them are free. So just wanted to just mention that there's a lot out there. There's a lot of things that I'm not even aware of that can be explored and, you know, figure out how to make it work to your own benefit.
00:54:22
Speaker
um But yeah, I guess I'm just promoting self-exploration on the whole. Yes. And I don't usually go on Reddit, even though I know, like, it's, Patty, you love your Reddit.
00:54:39
Speaker
Oh, God, I'd love to hate it. Yeah. to But it did go on, and and there's lots of people talking about IFS on there, it seems like, too. Mm-hmm. Well, those are some very useful ah tools. i'm going to check out Insight Timer. I think that sounds like kind of cool to just have those like you know somebody reading it to me.
00:55:01
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, because reading them, I mean, I'm sure, ah Patty, when you were reading the book as opposed to having it on audio, if you're just like reading the words in a book, then it's like, OK, but how am I supposed to be up in my in my internal awareness while I'm also getting the instructions. So yeah, the guided meditation is very, very helpful.
00:55:26
Speaker
And it's also like easier to skip over it if it's in a book, you know, you're just like, oh, and I was like, I can't skip over it. I'm just going to do it. true you could have, you know, fast forward 30. Although do they have that on audiobooks? Like, there's a fast forwarding like, you know, but then I i didn't know how long it was. So it's like, this gonna be more work than it's worth. I better just get to know my parts.
00:55:51
Speaker
Get know my parts. Yeah.
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:55:55
Speaker
Well, another excellent and interesting conversation. So thank you so much, Erin, again, for your time. Both both episodes, so appreciated.
00:56:05
Speaker
And you have a lot of interest, so hopefully you'll be back. Yeah. I would love that. Thank you for having me happy to Happy to be here. yeah Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And I feel like a little different now than I did at the beginning. Yeah.
00:56:20
Speaker
Yay. Yeah. Something shifted. Even just momentarily. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how, in what way or whatever, but definitely like something. Yeah. I see that head, head shaking. Got a little sass going on. Shoulder shrugs. Shoulder shrugs.
00:56:40
Speaker
All right. Well, stay interesting. and stay interested. i Thanks for listening to today's episode. Please subscribe, comment, and like the podcast.
00:56:51
Speaker
Follow us on Blue Sky Social at CanWeInterestYouIn. Send us an email at CanWeInterestYouIn at gmail.com. And join us next time.