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Chores for Kids {Episode 237}
442 Plays1 year ago
Are you tired of cleaning up after family? Looking for guidance on chores for kids? In this episode, Bonnie & Audrey share their chores system for their kids including chore charts and chore lists for kids and teens. They also cover the top 5 obstacles in getting kids to do chores and how to overcome them.
Mentioned in this episode:
Episode 158: Avoiding Entitlement in kids
Episode 79: Smooth Home Management Part 1
Episode 83: Smooth Home Management Part 2
Episode 91: Guest Ashley Buffa
About Outnumbered the Podcast:
Two moms, parenting a combined total of 19 kids and finding joy in the chaos.
Join Audrey and Bonnie as they share real parenting tips for real people through humor, advice and compassion.
Whether it's tackling how to teach kids to work or discussing where to turn when you're all out of patience, these two experienced moms are here to offer authentic tips for raising children joyfully.
Join us:
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Transcript
Introduction: Chores for Kids
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey friends, welcome back to Outnumber the Podcast. This is episode 234, chores for kids. We've only talked about chores once or twice before on the podcast and it was about time. We're going to talk about troubleshooting the five main obstacles that come up when trying to get your kids to do chores and how to get them to pitch in around the house more than ever. So let's dive in.
00:00:24
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Outnumbered the Podcast. I'm Audrey. And I'm Bonnie. We are experienced moms to a combined total of 19 children. In our weekly episodes, we explore relatable topics using our perspectives of humor and chaos. Tune in for advice and encouragement to gain more joy in your parenting journey.
Why Chores Matter
00:00:48
Speaker
Hello, friends. Welcome back. We have an episode on chores today, as our kids would say. Yay, chores. When we were doing some research, though, we were surprised to realize that our only chore episode was way back at the beginning. What, like episode two or three? So there's some great stuff in that one, if you haven't listened yet. But we get questions about chores all the... I would say it's probably one of, if not the top most requested question, right? Like, how do you structure chores? How do you do it? So yeah, diving into that today.
00:01:18
Speaker
Yeah. So we have a lot of, you know, mostly people are thinking like get their kids to help around the house chores. And that's like, we're going to address a lot of that today, but we also have animals. Um, so we do a lot of outside animal chores. So my kids were at a friend's this past weekend and they said that these, these people had some rabbits as pets. Well, we raised rabbits for meat. So like we eat them. So around the table, the discussion just got sillier and sillier about
00:01:48
Speaker
Did you ask them if you could butcher their rabbit for them? Savages. I know, I know. Like these crazy country bumpkins need to go back where they came from. But finally my 12 year old goes, he goes, no mom, I'm not that dumb. I know the difference between a pet and a meal.
Lessons from Chores
00:02:10
Speaker
Good work, son. I'm not sure I fully knew that difference as a teen. I mean, yes, in my mind, but I went to a cousin's house one year after seeing their new pet cow and the next year it was gone and their freezer was full and I was a little horrified as an urban city kid. I'm like, you did what?
00:02:33
Speaker
It takes a minute to process that. I know, I know. And I'm really glad that my kids know where their food comes from. Like I have to do this whole disclaimer here. Like my kids know where their food comes from. They actually are very respectful, more respectful of animals than if they were just pets because they are appreciative of where their food comes in and all that. But still, the humor was very
00:02:56
Speaker
It was very rip around it. Yeah. And this is a side note, but I do think how powerful it is when kids understand and see that cycle of life and are able to really be grateful for these animals that give life for us to sustain life. And I think most kids have no idea of that concept of connecting those two. And I think back to like Native American traditions of going out and hunting and then saying a prayer over the animal and thanking it for giving its life so that they could sustain their own life.
00:03:26
Speaker
Gosh, my city kids could do a lot better at being grateful for these living beings, right? So that's your side note about chores. Well, actually one of the most, this is not humor anymore, one of the most poignant spiritual lessons that we ever taught our kid was we actually brought a lamb into our home and raised it in our home and raised it for meat like the children of Israel did.
00:03:48
Speaker
with the lamb in their home before their whole Egypt experience and just to like think about what it was like for them to actually have a lamb in the home and then consume that lamb because it was given it was that lamb or that or the firstborn in the home like that was a lesson.
00:04:07
Speaker
And so that was, you know, we, we talked about it, like who is first born, who is oldest child in our house and would be gone. And you know, just the whole lesson in teaching, but to do actually with a lamb was very, like everybody, there were tears. Everybody was so upset that this little sweet lamb was going to die, but it was, um, it was very poignant religious experience for us.
00:04:26
Speaker
Yeah, I bet. And that sacrifice is just words on a paper until they connect that with a real life, right? Oh, what a beautiful story. I love that.
Developing Independence through Chores
00:04:35
Speaker
Okay, so back to chores. We both, as you all know, have very large families. Audrey has nine kids. I have 10. And we really value raising capable children. Number one, because it's just important to us. We want to send kids out who are prepared to be contributing members of society, but also because it's survival. Our kids were just dead weights. There's no way we would be able to care for them all.
00:04:55
Speaker
But we want them to learn how to contribute to the world. I will say this as a side note. I have had many conversations with moms of smaller families where they say, gosh, I wish my kids were a little bit more grateful and a little bit more independent and a little bit more capable. But because there's only two or three of them, I can do everything for them.
00:05:14
Speaker
And so I often do, and I said, absolutely, I would be the exact same way. But because there's 10, I physically cannot care for everyone by myself. And what's beautiful about that, I mean, some people might argue that I had too many, but I argue the opposite, that the more we have, the better our kids get at seeing needs and learning how to pitch in. It doesn't mean you have to have nine or 10 kids to raise capable children, but sometimes we need to kind of sit on our hands and allow our kids to do things for themselves or for the household so that they can learn these lessons.
00:05:45
Speaker
That is so true, yes. Because my husband is often used to illustration with my kids of everybody hold up your hands and how many are there and they count, oh yeah, 18 hands are, you know, 16 are home and your kids are home. And then like, mommy now hold up your hands. I'm like, how many hands are that too? So how much less work can two hands get done than all your hands? And you know, it's obvious, the obvious lesson is right in front of them.
00:06:10
Speaker
Yeah, and he should add on to that. And how many messes are those 16, 18 hands making? Oh, he truly does. He's like, you guys can make a mess nine times faster than mom can pull you around and clean it up. Exactly. So today is another episode in our series, What I Tell a Younger Me. So we are talking, our old, wise, experienced moms are helping our younger selves troubleshoot common problems.
Troubleshooting Chores
00:06:36
Speaker
and just telling ourselves things that we wish we'd have known a long time ago. We're doing this series actually for you guys, so you don't have to make all the mistakes that we did. But today we're gonna go ahead and troubleshoot what so many of you asked us about. Is those common chore problems?
00:06:50
Speaker
Yes, so we have divided this episode up into a handful of different obstacles that many of us and most moms encounter when trying to get their kids to do chores. And the first obstacle is, it's a little bit hard to explain, but essentially the balance between teaching our children how to clean and actually having a clean house because if you've ever taught a five-year-old how to clean,
00:07:09
Speaker
It doesn't necessarily, okay, let's be honest, it doesn't ever result in actual cleanliness. It's just training, right? So with kids home all day long, things get really dirty and kids never clean to my standards. So this was like my number one question for so many years when my kids were little. I would ask every homeschool mom I knew, okay, but how do you actually get a clean house? Because everybody helps clean, but it's still not clean. Do you go do it behind them? Do you hire cleaners? Do you just stay up all night? Like, what is this? Do I just lower my expectations? It was a real struggle for me.
00:07:39
Speaker
Yes, that is that is such good questions to ask and I don't even know that we have 100% these answers But we do have a bunch of tips to tell you guys so Yeah finding the balance, you know, I often have said to myself like ask myself or said to myself I Hope my kids don't think I'm okay with this level of disorder or uncleanliness like when they move out and start their own homes and you know have their own responsibility I hope they don't
00:08:07
Speaker
take this as a, the standard on how cleaner, not clean things should be, because I'm not okay with this level of unclean, but it's my reality. And so I tried to do it with some of these things that we're going to be sharing with you today, balancing cleanliness standards, and then the kids helping and teaching them. Like that's a very important element of them having clean homes in the future is them learning how to clean. So,
00:08:36
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. What do you say?
Creating Effective Chore Systems
00:08:40
Speaker
We have one point in the day, and we're going to share this later, where everything is cleaned to my standard. And we have rooms in the house that are cleaned to my standard and not theirs. If they don't do it right, then we go back and do it together or I go back and do it. And then there are experiences or times when
00:09:01
Speaker
things have to be cleaned to my standard. Whether that means we do it together, I go back and do it after them or often I'll have them clean and I'll do the last step. So like you clean the room and I'll vacuum it. So like that's the last step. And then as I'm vacuuming and I have a vacuum helper, so they're in there watching me cleaning, picking up things they forgot, you know, maybe dusting, okay, you watch me, watch what I'm doing. And you dust the lamps as I go, that kind of thing. So you're kind of,
00:09:29
Speaker
It is kind of a balance between getting it to your standards and letting them help. I think the number one thing tip I have here is just supervision. You can't expect them to clean, and we're going to talk more about this later, but you can't expect them to clean to your standard if you're not there reinforcing underlining, just helping them bring it up to your standard.
00:09:51
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And in a perfect world, we would all be side by side cleaning together. And for some families, that actually works really well where they do family clean together. They all go into one room and do it together. That always ended in a mass chaotic fight with everyone screaming at each other. So that did not work out so well, but we will do either small groups or just mom or a teenager go alone with a child, especially during the training phase, which again, we'll talk about later. But one thing that I finally determined was that teaching my children how to clean the house
00:10:18
Speaker
It actually has very little or nothing to do with having a clean house. It was the education and then there was the cleaning. Okay. So do they pitch in a little bit? For sure. And eventually they really are useful, but that's not till about 14 or 15 and it takes a while to get there. So don't keep looking at teaching your children how to clean as a way of getting a clean house because you'll just be disappointed, right? And if you have very high standards, you're going to just get angry all the time.
00:10:44
Speaker
So, instead, I teach them to clean and then I pick up the slack or a teenager picks up the slack or for us, it actually looks like hiring cleaners occasionally because my schedule is full and I've chosen to spend some money to pick up that slack instead of doing it myself. And everybody has different thoughts and feelings around that, but you get to decide how you're going to achieve that level that you require for your own sanity while still teaching your children how to clean.
00:11:10
Speaker
Um, maybe even allowing them to just watch you for a while and then pitch in a little bit and then try things independently. There's a million different ways you can train them, but just acknowledge early on that it's not going to look like just handing over the scrub brush and everything looks immaculate. So you said like, you mentioned like anger and cleanliness together, and I know you're probably like joking, but no, that's like a real thing. I know we've discussed, um, we have a whole episode on sensory processing disorder, but for me clutter is
00:11:40
Speaker
like anger. Like I cannot function when there's clutter, which is terrible for me to have had nine kids and expect there never to be any clutter. But no, it's like you really do have to find what you can do for it to be clean enough for you to be settled in that piece with this is my home and also teaching your kids. So yeah.
00:12:06
Speaker
Okay. Our obstacle number two that we're going to talk about is setting up a chore schedule. We've mentioned this in so many other episodes, but intentionality is the key here. If you don't have a plan, you plan to fail. So you've got to, to have a clean house, you have to have a regular schedule of cleaning. It probably looks different at your house than it does ours. We have to be very religious about cleaning because, because there's so many of us making so much of a mess so much of the time.
00:12:35
Speaker
So we have to clean way more at our house than other people do. In fact, I know I shared this in other episodes, but I actually have an industrial vacuum in my house. Most homes do not need an industrial vacuum. Mine does.
00:12:48
Speaker
Yeah, we actually had to replace our vacuum recently because a dumb dog chewed through the cord, one thing or another, I tell you. And when I went to the vacuum store, I was talking to the guy and he's like, do you never want to buy a vacuum again? I'm like, yes, please. He's like, you need this one. I'm like, that looks like a hotel vacuum. It's ugly. He's like, exactly. It's $1,000 and you'll never replace it. I'm like, hmm, that's very tempting. Because yeah, that's what I told my husband. I said, we need to stop buying things at Costco that normal families buy. We need to only buy the things that a hotel would buy because that's the kind of abuse that it takes.
00:13:16
Speaker
That is a side tip here, but we always buy the commercial version of the washing machine or the dishwasher or the plants or whatever, and then we always get the warranty because they always make the mistake of putting like a five year warranty on it. That's for like some little lady. They don't expect the washer to be running literally 24 seven for five years.
00:13:34
Speaker
going to get your money out of that. It's brilliant. Okay, so this organizing the chores admittedly can get complicated, especially if you have a large home and or a large family size. But just start very small and simple. Don't dive into the most complicated tour system ever. Just start with cleaning up rooms. This week we're going to focus on everyone's cleaning up their own room and by Friday it has to be clean or by the end of today or whatever.
00:13:56
Speaker
and then gradually build up as kids are trained. Our kids have been doing it for a long time, so we can have more complicated systems that they understand how to work, but also acknowledge that every time you have a complicated system, you're the one that has to keep it running. You're the one that has to keep kids moving and keep things getting accomplished the way you expect. So small and simple is the right way to go. Yes. Our first thing that we implemented was an afternoon short time. We implemented this four o'clock. It's everybody knows four o'clock afternoon short time.
00:14:24
Speaker
There were no rules, nothing. It was just that at four o'clock, the house had to, we had to start cleaning and we had to have it cleaned before dad got home from work. Easy, right?
Handling Resistance to Chores
00:14:33
Speaker
Nobody started cleaning until the house was clean. And then as we got that, um, under our belts, then we started assigning, okay, you do this room and you do this room and the, and like more systems and things into place. But first of all, it was just, let's just clean until the house is clean. Everybody altogether. Um, another place where you can add in chores is.
00:14:52
Speaker
places where routines are already in place. So look at the morning, look at the evening. You have a morning routine, you get up, you brush your teeth, you know what, fill in the blank. Well, that can become a little hook where you can add just one more thing too. So make your bed. That's now part of your morning routine. So you also make your bed. And then when they've got that done, okay, now you brush your teeth, make your bed and pick up five things off the floor.
00:15:17
Speaker
Oh, okay. All right. So now it's a little hook and you can, you can build on it. Same thing. Another place where there's a routine is the evening, right? You brush your teeth, you put your pajamas on, you say your prayers, you get into bed. Oh, okay. So now we can add something to that. You brush your teeth, you put your pajamas on, you pick up five things off the floor. You say your prayers, you get into bed. So anywhere you have a little bit of something that's always happening every day. That's why afternoon short time worked at four o'clock worked so well for us because dad came home every day at five o'clock.
00:15:46
Speaker
And we knew every day that was something that was going to happen. So we could add something onto that.
00:15:52
Speaker
Yeah, and isn't that the tip that they share for developing a new habit in general? You just add it onto something that's already a habit. And we all have a habit of waking up and brushing our teeth. Yeah, just adding it on. And for kids especially too, especially in a large family, getting everyone to stop what they're doing and shift to something else is kind of torture, especially if you have any kids that struggle with that, some attention issues or whatever. And so if there's already a shift, like it's, oh, it's time to get ready for dinner, then that's also a good time to pick up or an also a good time to go put your books away or whatever. So I love that tip.
00:16:20
Speaker
We have developed our chore chart into one that has three main segments. So the first segment is their zone that they're assigned. Aside note, our chore chart actually lasts for a month. So we do the same chores for a month and then we rotate. And the reason we've done that is because it's long enough that kids can really get trained in it and take ownership for an area, but not so long that they get so burned out, they never want to do it again. I found that a week was too short, but a month was about perfect. So they have a zone, which is just an area, usually a room in the house. So for example,
00:16:48
Speaker
My oldest has the living room. It means he picks up in vacuums every day in that room. Another kid has the dining room, picks up, sweeps every day. The other category is a dish or a dish job or a meal job, essentially loading, unloading, wiping the table, wiping the counter. And then finally, we have the deep cleaning that we do on Saturday. So you get to make this look however works for you and your family. But these are just ideas to get you thinking. And again, start small and simple and then gradually add on as kids gain ownership of those chores.
00:17:18
Speaker
Okay, so in the past, we have had a system that we call chore cards. I did explain this pretty well in our, what was it, episode three or four on chores. And so you can go back and listen to that in depth, because I really laid it out. It worked really good for us for a long time. And that's what we do during the school year when we're, we homeschool. And so we've got more of a schedule, more of a routine, and we also do chore cards. At afternoon chore time, I just, everybody takes their chore cards and they go do what's on their card.
00:17:47
Speaker
And we do switch those up weekly. But now, and in the summer, what we're doing is we have a chore chart and we have a huge blackboard in our school room. And I just have made a quadrant up in one corner and it has big rooms, small rooms, other chores and animals like outside chores. And then every kid's name across the top. And each week I just go and I erase and I add and move around
00:18:17
Speaker
Like if they haven't done very well on a chore or mastered it, then they get that again. Just, it's just a chore chart. It's a little bit more relaxed system for summer, just so that I find when we take a break from the chore cards, then we come back to him. Everybody's excited about him again. Like they appreciated him again, or they're happy to do it, or it's just a change. Kids love change.
00:18:58
Speaker
take advantage of
00:19:11
Speaker
I forgot that one. How come I get this twice?" I'm like, oh, I messed that one. So it takes some adjusting, some trial and error for sure. It's like juggling. Yes. Don't drop a ball. But start simple. You'll get there. Okay. So obstacle number three is teaching the kids to clean. So like we mentioned up front, there is a balance between actually keeping it clean and teaching them, but this is just a form of their education.
00:19:35
Speaker
I know that there are some people that are hesitant to get their kids involved. Number one, because they don't do a great job. Number two, because it's more work for you. It is absolutely more work for you. I acknowledge that.
Health and Responsibility
00:19:45
Speaker
You will not get the payoff for years, but think of this as just another way you are preparing your child to go out into the world. You would never send them out into the world without knowing how to drive.
00:19:54
Speaker
or how to make decent food, I hope, or how to care for themselves. This is the same thing, cleaning up after themselves, being a good steward, being able to care for the things that they've been blessed with is just the education that they require before going out on their own.
Parental Guidance and Moral Worth
00:20:10
Speaker
Yes. If you think that your moral worth is heightened because you do all the cleaning, forget it. Sorry. You're really depriving your kids of
00:20:22
Speaker
something of life skill they need. One rookie parent mistake is assuming kids already know how to clean, like they've been watching you clean for years, right? And I remember with my oldest, I was just blown away that I actually remember putting my hand over the top of her hand, picking up a toy, going over to the toy box and putting it in. Like I was like, what? Like how hard is this kid? I know, how does she not know how to pick something up? She knows how to take the things out of the toy box. How does she not know that they go back in the toy box?
00:20:53
Speaker
And then you also need to train them multiple times. Like just because you taught them once doesn't mean they got it. Like I have one of my kids that admits admitted to me today. He was like, yeah, I kind of daydream a lot. I'm sorry. I wasn't listening. I already knew that, but it's good for you to know that. And now often with my kids, I'm like,
00:21:16
Speaker
If they have something in their hands and they're fiddling or whatever, I might put that down, put your eyes on me. I'd probably say put your eyes on me 50 times a day. Because if they don't have their eyes on me, there's like, who knows? And then the daydreamer is like still, we call him the absent minded professor. Yeah, we got a couple of those too. It's just like an employee at a new job. Maybe it would distance us from the emotion part of it. If we were just like, Oh, this is an employee and I'm training them for their job.
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah, I wish I'd fire a couple of my kids, let's be honest. Okay. We can say my job is teaching them. Yes, it is true. And you brought up a really good point about feeling like you've got the moral high ground when you do everything. As moms, we are
00:22:02
Speaker
divinely designed to want to self-sacrifice. That's part of our job and it's what makes us wonderful mothers. But at some point we have to step back and allow them to have the reins or they will not be prepared when they go out into the world. And that's not what you want to do. You don't want to raise kids that are just so used to you serving them all the time because it feels good to serve them that they can't do anything for themselves. So I joke about this, but having a lot of kids has taught me
00:22:27
Speaker
selfishness, right? It has taught me how to take care of myself first, because if I don't, no one will ever say, hey, has mom eaten today? No. So similarly, you have to step back and say, I am going to do the hard thing, which is relinquish control to you. Because if not, you won't learn. And I love you enough to do things, allow you to do things the wrong way, so that you can learn instead of just me taking the reins every time. I really need to learn this lesson in the kitchen because I hate letting them help.
00:22:53
Speaker
I know, I know. But I wanted, I know that I've shared several funny stories on this podcast about how unprepared I was for life, like running a home. Like I made some of the most hideous, embarrassing mistakes because I didn't know how to do some of the most obvious things. And it was embarrassing to me that my husband had to teach me how to do some of these things that I wish I didn't know how to do. And like I didn't, like I'm really thankful
00:23:23
Speaker
that my mom was so capable and cleaned and did all the things. But also, I wish I had known how to iron men's pants, for example. That was hard. Those stubborn creases you couldn't get out, right? They were so stubborn.
00:23:45
Speaker
Okay, so just like training an employee at work, every complex task, anything more complex than wiping off a counter needs a checklist. So I don't know if you've ever worked in fast food or restaurant business especially will have standard operating procedures because there's a specific level of cleanliness you have to get to in order to pass a health inspection. So consider the same thing for your family. So for example, ours is mostly the bathroom. That's the one that's the most complex and has the highest risk of germs. And so I want my kids to know specifically what they have to do.
00:24:14
Speaker
So every one of our bathrooms has a laminated list of what needs to be done in detail and it's probably 20 things It's a lot, right? But everything is broken down in order to clean a toilet you start at the top and you start wiping things down and then you use this spray and then you use this brush and then you you know make your way down to the floor and
00:24:30
Speaker
Everything in detail do not assume they know how to do anything. When I say clean the sink, I go in there and I'm thinking there's toothpaste everywhere. Well, I rinsed it out. Well, cleaning actually requires spraying and scrubbing and detail, detail.
Accountability and Motivation
00:24:43
Speaker
Sometimes they've seen us do this and sometimes they haven't. Sometimes they're just off in La La Land while we're trying to show them and they actually need to get in there with their own elbow grease and try it before they learn. Okay. Our good friend Ashley Bufa has created standard upper
00:24:59
Speaker
standard operating procedures. And we have a guest episode with her. We'll link in the show notes. But if you don't know what should be done, because maybe we're untrained, like some of us, like one of us on this podcast, go get her standard operating procedures. They're genius. They're helpful. One thing that I have found really helps my kids is a photo of what it looks like when it's clean. So I clean it. I have it exactly the way I want it. And I take a picture and then it goes on the back of that chore card. This is what it's supposed to look like when it's clean.
00:25:28
Speaker
And then they can compare. It's not fair to ask them to remember. And then I love to have laying around and required reading for my kids' books and methods and strategies on cleaning and on organizing. We do have episodes on organizing and cleaning. You can go listen to those episodes too. But my older kids, it's just life training. They need it too. Yes. And I laughed when you were saying, I hope my kids don't think it's OK to live in this amount of mess. But teaching them the right way to clean will teach them
00:25:58
Speaker
to have those hired standards. And even if your home never looks like that for more than five seconds, it really is powerful to teach them how to do that deep cleaning so that they at least know how. Because there are some people that go out into the world and have never seen a bathroom that is totally scoured, never know what it looks like to have a room that is completely clean. There's nothing under the bed, there's nothing hanging on
00:26:19
Speaker
whatever, the bed posts, just giving them a little bit of that vision can help them get excited for it. And also realize, well, we'll get into this in a little bit about how kids are different, but some will need training and retraining, right? And then along those lines, if a child is older, don't forget sometimes they need retraining, right? Some of my older kids, it's been a while since they've cleaned a bathroom or something because the younger kids have stepped in now, they might need a little bit of retraining as well. And that comes with checking up on the jobs, which we'll get to as well.
00:26:47
Speaker
And finally, don't forget to teach why you clean a specific way. So especially toilets and that sort of thing, when there's a real health hazard, I tell them, hey, do you see this right here? Do you know what that is? That's pee. Do you know why we don't just leave that? Do you know why we lift a seat? Do you know why we use Clorox spray or some other antibacterial spray? This is why, because our health is at risk here. So this is why we clean, not just so it looks pretty, but also so that our family can be healthy. Such good information. You think it's obvious.
00:27:16
Speaker
Okay, obstacle number four, kids who resist. This is probably what we get asked the most about. What do you do when the kids don't want to do the chores? Yeah, this is all of them, side note.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yes. And like I said, one thing everybody figures out really quickly in parenting is that every child is very different. You will have some who will go, oh, it's your time. Time to pitch in quickly and without too much fight. Admittedly, I think I only have two of those out of 10, but they're there sometimes. And others will be a little bit resistant and then they get excited about it and do it. And others will fight you tooth and nail every step of the way.
00:27:51
Speaker
So just acknowledge that every kid is different. They're not wrong or bad. They just have different ways of being motivated, different ways of being encouraged, and you're going to have to work harder with some than others. But just acknowledge that you're going to have to work with their personality. Just like we teach you guys in the learning episodes, the homeschool episodes, teach to those learning styles.
00:28:15
Speaker
Yes, another tip here is be flexible and start small. Yes, with small chores, but also start when they're small. The longer they go without cleaning, the more resistant they are going to be to it when they start. You just have to start on young. There's no reason not to. In fact, the kids who are the most enthusiastic about cleaning are the youngest kids. They think it's fun. They it's a game to them. They'll even like play cleaning.
00:28:42
Speaker
Hey, let's go clean our house. Yeah. And one of the most ironic, horrible parts of life is that as soon as they get good at cleaning, they are no longer excited about it. It's not fair. Yeah. Yeah. So then here's another thing you can do when the kids have been trained and they're a little bit older. You can require them to take responsibility for it and check if it needs cleaning. Not only wait till afternoon, short time at our house to clean, but oh, we ate a meal and there's junk all over the car
00:29:11
Speaker
all over the rug underneath the table. Don't ask me why we have a rug underneath the table. I'm not going into that right now. It needs to be vacuumed, like right then, not wait until four o'clock.
00:29:23
Speaker
Okay, a quick tip here for kids who have some special needs or neurodivergent kids. These are ones who are going to require extra help in doing their chores. They might require a buddy. They might require you being next to them. They might require umpteen requests to go do their job. This is tricky because other kids will think it's not fair, and this goes for a lot of things with those special kids.
00:29:44
Speaker
We have to have a regular family discussions about how everyone has their own. Obligations their own responsibilities and how its mom and dad's job to assign and remind and it's not anyone else's business so again this happens with everything but if you have a kid who is not functioning at.
00:30:01
Speaker
their age level, that just might be a little conversation you have to have with the family. Remember, and you don't have to single any kid out if you don't feel like that's necessary, but you can just say, remember, it's mom and dad's job, and it might not seem fair, and life is very often not fair, but your job is to finish the assignment as asked and help anyone else who needs help. Yes, good reminders. Okay, here's a couple other tips for resisting kids. Start them with an easy job. Maybe the job you've given them is too hard.
00:30:30
Speaker
they can't do it and they're discouraged and that's why they're resisting or they don't know how. So just start with an easy job when they're young. Have them have a partner. That is a very good option. So an older kid paired with a younger kid to teach them to help them. And then like on something we do on outside is like group chores, group cleaning. So like you
00:30:52
Speaker
Say the boys are responsible for the chickens this week and the girls are responsible for the rabbits. And like, everybody's responsible. Not like, you know, the rabbits don't have water and you all point fingers at each other, but no, everybody's responsible for the tour.
00:31:06
Speaker
Yeah, those are so great. And again, trial and error with those resistant kids. See if there's a better system you could work out. See if there's a family privilege you could all do. We're all going to go to the park as soon as jobs are done. Let's all get it done quickly, et cetera. Just trial and error. OK, the final obstacle is getting them to what we like to call return and report. So you've assigned them. Go clean the bathroom. I always come up with the bathroom. It seems to be the one that's the biggest struggle. Go clean the bathroom and then come back and tell me when you're done because then I need to check. OK.
00:31:34
Speaker
Yeah, if kids are left with their own devices, they'll just do the bare minimum and take off. So you have to ingrain into them that your job, you're not done with a job until whatever your thing is. Like, we're going to give you a couple options here, but you're not done until XYZ. The chore isn't done. Even if you think it's perfectly clean, it's still not done until this thing. Because unless, like I was saying earlier, unless they're supervision or some
00:32:04
Speaker
checks and balances, some checking up on them here. It's going to slowly descend into chaos. And I think this is a really interesting and useful concept because this is what we do out in the real world. When we go get a job, we are given a project or an assignment, and then we are required to report on how it went. OK, did that get done? What were the results? Did it get done on time? Did you miss the deadline? Why? There's always a reporting and an owning up to what we did or didn't do.
00:32:33
Speaker
And so teaching them early on, I assign you, you complete it, and then you come back and tell me, and I check your job. And that is a really important process in the teaching process, because if not, they'll never understand what they did wrong, right? Having a parent or even an older sibling go check it is really helpful. Yes. We have, when we're in our school routine during the regular school year, we have our afternoon, short time, and then we have a check-in where after they've done their afternoon chores, they bring me their school list,
00:33:01
Speaker
And I don't look at their list to see if they're done for the day until I've walked around their rooms and made sure, you know, looked at it, inspected it. And then something we do for our outside chores is we have an inspector. So one kid is not on chores. They're just the inspector of chores. And so it rotates around because everybody likes to be the inspector, right? They're the inspector. And they walk around and make sure all the chores have been done. And then they come back and tell mom.
00:33:25
Speaker
that what this certain cage of chickens, it doesn't have enough water in it. And that's a concern because the weather is going to get really hot today. So inspector is kind of a fun element we've added to chores so that there's a reason for them to do it right.
00:33:43
Speaker
Oh, I love the inspector role. We don't have to try that. So yeah, I've got a couple of hacks for busy parents because if there's anything more irritating than assigning jobs on a Saturday morning, it's having them come to you every 30 seconds. Can you check it? Can you check it? Can you check it? Because they want to go play. Oh my gosh. If I hear, can you check it one more time? I'm going to lose my mind. So a few things that we have done to get out of being perpetually checkers is the inspector job. Sometimes I will send a teenager to say, or even just a sibling, just a little older, go check their jobs. And side note, they are very often much stricter than mom and dad.
00:34:12
Speaker
Uh-uh, I saw her shove stuff under her bed. Uh-uh. They so are. That's so great. Another one that we will often have them do, I will just hand them my phone and say, go take a picture or a video and bring it back. And I prefer video because then I make them span the whole room. Otherwise, they do like these really...
00:34:30
Speaker
these really creative shots where it's just like this one angle and behind them is all the mess, you know, the Instagram shot where you pushed all the mess away. Oh my goodness. So I'm always like thinking about, you know, what's going to be on my phone roll when I die. Yours is just going to be like all this pictures. It's going to be all pictures of half cleaned bedrooms.
00:34:50
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Have a sibling check. Give a time limit for checks or a number of times you'll check. So for example, in the past we've done like, okay, 11am is when I do all the checks. If your stuff is done beforehand, you can just chill. But remember, if it's not done to my satisfaction, you're going to have to go back and do it again. So 11 o'clock, then I go check every once at once. So then they get kind of a deadline for their chores and I only have to do it once.
00:35:12
Speaker
or I will say I will check a maximum number of two times. If I've checked a second time and it's still not done, you just don't get to play today. You're just stuck inside because you couldn't get it done in a timely manner. You'll just have to see what works for your kids, but it does get a little chaotic when you've got a bunch of kids asking them to check, you to check 47 jobs. You guys can tell we have a lot to say about chores, probably because we have a lot of experience with
00:35:37
Speaker
chores not being done right, pulling our hair out about it, and wondering how to achieve that balance between us doing it all and being okay with some of the mess because we've got a learning curve somebody's on. But I want you to take note of something that we're not talking about in this episode, and that is rewarding our kids for chores. Why? Because we're mean slave drivers.
00:36:00
Speaker
Yes. Exactly. Go listen to our episode 158 about entitlement. So when your kid is grown up and has their own apartment and their own house, is somebody going to give them an allowance for cleaning the house? No.
00:36:21
Speaker
this is real life training or when they you know when they just you name it in life it's just that we dive into it so deep in that episode about why it's not good to it's setting up an expectation of being rewarded for something that everybody has to do so it's a really good episode but you guys we know it's hard to get your kids to do chores and to overcome find that balance and have it to your standards but one thing I do is I just think about how clean about something my grandma said to me when
00:36:51
Speaker
I know I've said this before in the podcast, but my grandma and grandpa, I said, grandma, she had four kids. I said, grandma, was your house ever dirty? And she said, oh my Audrey, yes, but your house is full of life. And I love that. And I remind myself of that often.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yes, I'm so glad you brought up the rewards. It is so tempting to just say, just go finish your room, I'll give you a dollar. Just go finish your room, we'll go do this thing. And I'm not saying that you can't have something fun for them to look forward to. My kids get playtime, they get to go hang out with their friends, or if there's some screen time or whatever, that comes after the chores. However, if they get a reward every single time, then they don't do it without a reward. And what a miserable existence that's gonna be as an adult when they realize the only reward on the other side of a mopped kitchen is a mopped kitchen.
00:37:34
Speaker
There's no cookie waiting for you. So, so beneficial. And what's interesting is watching my kids take ownership and really enjoy having a clean house. So I can't tell you how many times I've been gone somewhere or busy in my office and my kids
00:37:49
Speaker
have chosen to clean up the whole house just as a surprise for me, or just because it feels good, or just because they're choosing to do something that makes them feel like they've worked hard that day. And I love that, that they're understanding the value of hard work and a job well done, that it just feels satisfactory and not always have to have external motivation.
00:38:10
Speaker
Okay, friends, that's what we got for you. Make sure you check the show notes for those other episodes that'll give you lots of insight into teaching kids chores and how to raise amazing contributing members of society that know how to clean a toilet. We'll talk next week. I'm Audrey. I'm Bonnie, and we're Outnumbered. Thanks for listening, friends. Click the link in the show notes to subscribe to our email and never miss another episode. Show us some love by leaving a review on iTunes or sharing the podcast with a friend. Thanks for all your support. We'll talk to you next week.
00:38:43
Speaker
You said teenager picks up the slap. I will edit that out. But that is so tempting when you get them trained and they're ready to help clean too. And then they're like, I'm just going to slap them around because they're not doing it. It's like, no, actually that's not part of the training. We didn't do that to you.
00:39:04
Speaker
Oh, Freudian slip. Yeah. I mean, sometimes I want to slap them when they say it's clean and it's like muddy. Really? This is clean? Okay. Yeah. I want to say put your lunch down on that floor and eat it then. Gross. They probably would too. Kids are gross. Oh my goodness.