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OPE Season 3 Episode 23 Lions Claim Lambeau Throne
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Aloha and welcome to another episode of OPE! In this episode we fight through the internet problems of Mike and give our Fresh, Stale and Moldy takes of the Green Bay Packers disappointing loss to the Detroit Lions
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Transcript
Intro
Disappointment with Packers' Performance
00:00:21
Speaker
Aloha and welcome to another episode of the Hana Packers Edition podcast. The podcasts where the toasts are very disappointed in the Packers. Well Joe, that sucked. Weather sucked. Team sucked. Game sucked.
00:00:34
Speaker
like
00:00:35
Speaker
but the end of the podcast episode. so but Welcome to the bi-week Packers fans. But, yeah I mean, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Recurring Mistakes Against the Lions
00:00:45
Speaker
The Packers basically did a repeat of the week four game up from last year, last season against the Lions.
00:00:53
Speaker
Yeah, i there's not gonna be, I honestly have spent the last 15 minutes trying to think of a good for this game. It's a stretch, but yeah, just a whole lot of bad and ugly from the Packers today. I don't know, there's a couple of bright spots among the shit fest, but yeah, so before this thing goes lights out on me, Joe, let's get into the good, bad and ugly.
Notable Individual Performances
00:01:22
Speaker
Oh, this is going to be the shortest segment of the day of of the of the podcast history. What was your good bet you took out of this game today? There's probably two that fit the bill the most out of it all. And I'll go with the one so you can at least have the other. I'm assuming we both think the same thing. So I'll go with Jade Reid. He at least showed up. He was making the plays that needed to be He racked up over 110, I think he was at 113 yards on five receptions or something like that. So he tried. He was the one receiver tight end that didn't have a crippling drop or misread on a ball today. So yeah, he goes in the good pile. And I mean, to add on to him, I would have to give Christian Watson some credit too, because he was, yeah you know, he was making plays, but, you know,
00:02:17
Speaker
We're back to wicks dropping everything. I know the conditions weren't great, but when they hit you, you can't not have it. And I saw some people say like, oh, the throw from love was behind, blah, blah, blah. You got to make a fucking play for your quarterback at that point. like you know you can say whatever you want but dude is playing hurt trying to help the team the conditions aren't great he you know but you guys are scraping and clawing for anything you can get make the damn catch make a play
00:02:50
Speaker
The Watson one, I made a joke on it. I tweeted when he misread that deep ball, like you're not going to beat the allegations with that play. But outside of that moment, the rest of his game was really solid. He blocked really well. was reliable on all of his other opportunities. I think i think the only other one was was just he he had no chance at the throw. but Otherwise I thought Watson had a decent game. And the other side of it is I thought that Josh Jacobs was, you were getting whatever you want, what you exactly what you hoped to get from Jacobs, but because of the offensive failings around him,
00:03:30
Speaker
it just negated any impact he had on the game. It's just too bad because he was off to a really good start for the game. They were doing what I said you could do to this Lions office defense is that you can punch them in the mouth, you can punch them back, but the key to it is you've got to keep or keep scoring with them or get ahead of them.
00:03:53
Speaker
And the Packers just pissed that opportunity away and it's just really disappointing because Jacobs was he was in line to get a 200 yard rushing day like Like he was gonna just just grind out a really massive day on the ground and even Wilson later on He was running hard. You saw that, you know, I kind of joked that there is one guy who is playing every snap like every one of them matters and that's Wilson because he's seen Brooks take you know take kind of the RB 2 spot from him the last couple weeks and Wilson is a guy that's like well fuck that like I
00:04:29
Speaker
I want that spot back and a little bit of Brooks having a bonehead moment where he didn't go out of bounds in the two-minute drill but also I don't think Wilson's done anything to really lose him spots.
Wilson's Fight for RB2 Spot
00:04:40
Speaker
I thought he's blocked well in pass pro. I thought he's run really hard when he's gotten his opportunities and I was really happy to see him you know have some movement on the ground. I know Detroit was playing softer at that point, but Wilson runs more like Jacobs. you know He has a little bit more, I think, top end burst and speed. And you saw the effectiveness when you just run right at Detroit. You can get some movement and create some creases on the ground.
00:05:06
Speaker
And it's just really unfortunate that between a lot of the other stuff that's going to come later in the podcast, you just negated what should have been an absolute strength for you today. And it goes back to what we were both talking about while my internet was being a dick punch where It might have been better if you started Monleak Willis because you would have committed to just ground and pounding this Lions defense. And Willis you know might have hit enough passes to you know take advantage of Detroit over playing things. But everything is hindsight 2020. That's the really stupid thing about this game is if you just catch half of the drops, Green Bay might win this game.
00:05:51
Speaker
and You know, that's the story of the Packers in their three losses this year, is it's all woulda, coulda, shoulda. And on that note, let's get into the bad, Joe, because there's a lot of bad and a bunch of ugly from this game. What you got first on the docket for bad for today?
00:06:11
Speaker
no one that keeps coming to mind but every time I bring this guy up as a bad it seems like oh well PFF says use the top-rated CB and and that's Kishon Nixon Nixon was just getting beat hard it's especially on that touchdown against Amon Raah St. Brown and on a fourth down he just I don't know what it was i Get you're playing in motion, but it was like he was only in heartfelt play in that motion for that that fourth down conversion for the touchdown to st. Brown and Just later on the game. It just seemed like he was out of place for everything and on the flip side of it I thought Stokes's coverage was good. He was just getting the bad luck of the coverage that no matter how well a coverage he was putting on on the player and
00:07:07
Speaker
they were still able to make plays and catch the ball. So people are going to see that and and completely crap on Eric Stokes. But even the announcers were saying that's almost perfect coverage by Eric Stokes. Just the tight end or the receiver went up and made the play. So my first bat or my first stale of the game is is Kishan Nixon.
00:07:35
Speaker
Yeah, and just kind of echo that. I saw some people complaining about like how soft the coverage is was at different times and I mean, I don't know what you want Halfly to do there because you're down your top corner and one of your safeties who would allow you to manipulate your coverage responsibilities because if Jai is there, obviously he's a corner, you're able to play a lot more man. And williams is healthy if Evan Williams is healthy, then you know Bullard can play in the slot and you have more flexibility in what you can do.
00:08:09
Speaker
and so you know, Halfley's calling it left handed or I'm not sure if Halfley is left, or but he's playing off hand, you know, he's calling his defense off handed. And it it really just hamstrings him to, you know, what he's comfortable doing in terms of, you know, how aggressive he can be in coverage. Because, it you know, no one wants to hear it. But, you know,
00:08:32
Speaker
the one thing you don't want to do is especially on a sloppy field day is just give up big plays where no one's in position you can't come back and you know make a recovery tackle or anything like that And like you said, like the obnoxious thing about it is golf wasn it it wasn't like Goff was throwing these like really, the only really good ball he threw honestly was the touchdown to St. Brown. Other than that, most of his other throws were wobbly they and it just happened that the ball went to the absolute right spot that it had to and stuff.
00:09:04
Speaker
but You know, that's the breaks you catch when you just make all, you know, bad, you know, you make bad plays in other places.
Penalty Issues and Discipline Problems
00:09:12
Speaker
And to coincide with that, my stale for the game is the Packers' penalty problems. And we've been we've been harping on this all season so far. And good teams just don't commit this many penalties.
00:09:31
Speaker
I have issue with some of the calls that were made. I thought, you know, like certain ones were like the Jordan Morgan hold. I thought that was a really weak call, especially when you consider some of the stuff that like Detroit got away with. There was a play where Carl Brooks got pats basically and there was no call and stuff. And like, I just felt there was a real inconsistency to how that was handled, how false starts were handled by each team.
00:09:57
Speaker
Regardless of it all, Green Bay just continues to play such undisciplined football that they put themselves in position to be called for so many penalties. And you can't call yourself a good team if you're constantly behind the chains because of your own errors. And it's just really frustrating. And you know that was one of the things that I called them out for last week is I was like, you can't be this you can't be considered a good team if you're this undisciplined. And it's like, oh, like you know they're still up. like What are you complaining about? i'm like You're beating the Jacksonville Jaguars by three, a team that you should be up by way more on, but you're one of four in the red zone. Similar outcomes today. You're committing penalties that put you either that kill your drives happen today.
00:10:42
Speaker
and I tweeted out later I was like I don't know why so much of this fan base thinks that oh yeah they're making mental mistakes but we're gonna fix it when we play better teams that's not how this fucking works you you are what you do you know like you What you do repeatedly is who you are and right now the Packers are an undisciplined penalty-prone team and until they fix that they're gonna be a full-tier plus below the Lions and it's a big reason why they're like I know this is gonna sound fatalist and really negative but
00:11:17
Speaker
basically they've screwed themselves out of winning this division this season for like for all intents and purposes you're basically counting on one winning out the rest of your division games two you've got to You've got to win three more games than the Lions win the rest of the season, one of them being the head-to-head, because they're 2-0 or 3-0 in the division right now. You're 0-2. You've lost the head-to-head so far.
Division Hopes and Performance Concerns
00:11:46
Speaker
And they're two games up on you right now, which, like I said, because of the division disparity, they're 2-1,5 games for all intents and purposes ahead of you. so
00:11:55
Speaker
The division is not in your control. And basically, Green Bay has to just hope that some of these other teams don't figure their shit out because they're going to be squeezed out of a wildcard spot. And it's a position you solely responsible for putting yourself in. Yeah, and I agree with you on your assessment with the penalties. There were a couple that were just like, are you really shitting me right now? And what makes it worse is you've got Tom Brady in the booth.
00:12:25
Speaker
and Tom Brady's being a minority owner the oak of the Las Vegas Raiders, and he can't say anything So he's got to put a positive spin on everything so it makes it sound even worse than what it is Because he's agreeing with everything the refs are doing so he doesn't get in trouble The one that sticks to my mind tremendously is the rag now head bob that drew the offsides penalty and That was not a subtle motion. yeah ah ah That was not a subtle motion. That was a quick jerk up and he physically was forcing his hand like it was going to snap the ball. That's textbook false start. And that should have been called as false start, not
00:13:18
Speaker
anything else that was false start. That's the same crap. Josh Myers was getting nailed for. Was it last year or the year? I guess the Broncos. Yep. Last year. Yeah. So if, if it's a penalty on one side, it's a penalty on the other side. You can't have it, you know, because his was more egregious than what Josh Myers was doing.
00:13:40
Speaker
The one for me was the one that they called on Kishon on the Lions opening possession of the third quarter, where they called him for a defensive hold. And I'm sure they're going to argue like, oh, because my whole thing is I was like, it's all contact within the first five yards. And so one, you can do whatever. But two, I know the reps are going to say, like it's called a hold, so it's different. But if you watch what happened in that game today, like they had the one play where Carlton Davis did everything but pulled Romeo Dobbs' jersey off and there was no call on that play. And Nixon did much less. raymond doesn't even you know like Raymond doesn't even turn around and look for a flag. like I think he was as shocked that he got awarded a penalty on that play.
00:14:29
Speaker
but Again, it goes back to putting yourself in this position. I mean, the one that speaks to it is Brian Branch gets ejected from the game for, you know, and let's, you know, Detroit fans can complete them for all they want. It was a completely unnecessary hit that checks all the boxes for the things that the league wants
Brian Branch's Ejection and League's Decision
00:14:49
Speaker
to say. It's trying to to litigate out of the game.
00:14:53
Speaker
the The telltale shot of it is whether it's the spider cam look coming over Branch's shoulders and looking into Melton's face back or the one that's from like kind of like the end zone where you can see the two of players like looking at each other is Branch looks Melton dead in the face. The ball is not there and Branch is like I'm putting my head down and I'm squaring smacking you in the face and like It ended up not mattering, but in the moment I was like, you cannot let that slide NFL. Like, I'm sorry, like Lions fans can complain all they want, but that is the thing from the last five years that they're like, we are not letting you get away with anymore. And for Lions fans to be like, this is what they're doing. I'm like, and you see all the DBs, they're complaining about it. And like you said, Brady has to play nice because he's an owner now and shit like that. But like,
00:15:50
Speaker
Like I said, that's the thing that it's like, that is the thing that they're trying to get out of the game. And yeah, I'm just kind of like, I don't know what you're complaining about, but circling back, what happens right after Green Bay gets gets gifted 30 yards by a bonehead play and post-play decision-making by Brian Branch? False start, back up, you're first at 15 and it factors into, you know, what ends up being a missed field goal by McManus.
00:16:18
Speaker
That's the kind of undisciplined shit that just can't happen. but And the only penalty that I think was bullshit is the one that they called on Nixon at the start of the game. And that one, LaFleur deserves a dissertation from the referees on what they saw, what they called, because unless Nixon said something that was so egregious that it would never be played ah ah except on an NC-17 rating,
00:16:47
Speaker
which is not what they called. you know It wasn't on sportsman like called ah ah there wasn't unsportsmanlike conduct. It was unnecessary roughness. they called him So by my eye, they're calling him for running into a coach on the sideline. The only reason he hits the coach is because the Lions player shoved him in the back out of bounds. And it was fucking clear as crystal that he did it. And I'm like, you're seriously calling that? And Brady, that's the most That was the most he questioned the call. and He was like, we don't see anything. And like yeah he's like, I'm not sure what we're supposed to have seen. But yeah, I didn't see anything and stuff. So that one, they deserve a call. But on top of it all, OK, we're pointing out three penalties. You still have way too many. You still more than doubled or tripled up the lines in terms of penalties.
00:17:37
Speaker
and you're not going to win especially against a team that one is disciplined like the Lions. I know that branch play and I know what also happened on that branch play that I'm sure we'll talk about later but they didn't or they didn't have any penalties called and they're a team that plays hard every down and Yeah, just too many mental mistakes by the packer mistakes by the Packers that they can't overcome because they're not good enough to do that. like No team is good enough to keep overcoming a penalty every three or four plays, but especially not this Packers team that continues to make mental mistakes mental and physical mistakes as the game goes on. Yeah, and you know that's another thing.
00:18:24
Speaker
you I don't know if you've played any maddens recently, but there's always the point in the season where it comes to bye week and a player comes to you and says, well, we would really like a time off, or would you rather work throughout the bye week? Your ass is working throughout the bye week. Yep. That would be my feeling right now, because you guys are, like you said, undisciplined, too many penalties, too many boneheaded plays out there. You guys need the work, not the time off.
00:18:53
Speaker
Yep. And as much as people say like, oh, they're like so many plays away from being nine and oh, you're also a few plays away from being four and five right now because you fucked up the end of the Houston game. You almost completely fucked up the end of the Jacksonville game. And that's a two game swing that you, you know, that shouldn't even have been in question. And so,
00:19:21
Speaker
Yeah, like this team is in a tenuous situation. I do think the buy is at a good time for them, but I totally agree with you. They need to make the most of it because it's the majority of it is between the ears shit that they've got to get ironed out if they're going to, you know, like I said, the division, I'm just counting it as out of their control because Detroit is just playing too well and they have too much of a springboard lead on them right now.
00:19:51
Speaker
You can't even talk about the division. So it's playing for a wild card. but You can still attain your goals you know of being a Super Bowl contender. But as they're playing right now, this team is not a Super Bowl contender. You just cannot be making this many mental mistakes and dare to be expecting a seat at that table. So you're at the kiddie table right now. you know A lot of people aren't going to like to hear it, but you keep putting out this quality level of play. That's where you dare deserve to be sat right now.
00:20:21
Speaker
I think they need to be set outside on that, on the bench where nobody's can see them. cause it is, it's really getting sickening with some of this stuff. Cause it seems like it's the same stuff weekend, week out that we're talking about penalties, boneheaded plays, Jordan loves interceptions is Jordan love healthy. ah ah It's the same shit over and over again. So yeah. Uh, let's see, what else can we nail for a stale?
00:20:51
Speaker
Uh... God, just trying to think of stuff. What else is there that we can nail? Fundamentals, you know, tackling was poor again today. They had a lot of opportunities to just get guy, you know, Montgomery down earlier than he needed to be. You know, you gave up on Detroit's opening drive, you get creased on a 30 and five draw play and stuff like that. Just stuff that just can't be, and it's not the front seven that was injured. It's the back, you know, it was the backs, the DBs that were injured. And so,
00:21:22
Speaker
Your run fits were bad. The Gibbs touchdown, that's another brain fart moment. you know Everyone was singling out like, oh, when will Quay Walker get off a block? Blah, blah, blah. It wasn't a good Quay game. I'm not even trying to say that. But people who have agendas they want to put on the front burner, you need to learn how defense works.
00:21:43
Speaker
and The ironic part of that Gibbs touchdown on fourth down is it's not Quay's fault. It's one of the two golden boys on this defense's fault. It's either McKinney or it's Edge Cooper. I don't know which one of them. But when you call a goal line defense on not the goal line, everyone has to hit the gap. there' There's an assigned gap for everyone. You had seven of eight guys hit the correct gap. And the way you can tell that it's Edge or McKinney is both of them run up the same gap.
00:22:14
Speaker
And the one who's supposed to hit the gap that's inside of Kwe, that's who gave up the touchdown. They had that play set. Like they actually had, they had 10 out of 11 guys playing their job. One guy fucked it up and it's a touchdown. It's a backbreaking touchdown for the Lions. And I'm willing to make a bet on who it's probably is, but nobody will say it because he's, you know, yeah it's not the end thing to do. And it's got to be the young guy.
00:22:43
Speaker
You know, that that would be a mental mistake for the young guy in Edge Cooper. And nobody will say that because, oh well, that would go against our narrative on how Quay needs to have less snaps and Edge needs more snaps. So nobody's going to say something like that.
00:23:03
Speaker
I want to call it a bad... but ah ah Brian and I kind of talked about this too. It's the pass rush again. But Brian said something and then it got to got me thinking that I don't think it is the pass rush. I think it's more the defensive line, the interior defensive line. Because Brian said something about how, because I said that the pass rush seems like it's getting in the pocket, but once they get in the pocket, it's like they lose focus on what they're supposed to do when they get into the pocket.
00:23:40
Speaker
You know what I mean? where When they're pass rushing in, they get the pressure on the quarterback. Well, then he said, well, yeah, it's like they're going up the field and then back around and pushing the quarterback towards the defensive line. Well, duh, that's part of the job of an edge rusher is you're supposed to get that pressure up so your interior your guys can make the play on it and the interior guys aren't making the play on the quarterback. I think i think today too, it's a function of what Detroit wants to do is it wants to match you with its o-line and so that whole defensive front is you know there everyone you know talks about like play the run on the way to the past blah blah blah but it's like if you get gashed on a couple drives here and there it's like okay you're gonna like double down on making sure you play your run fundamentals first kind of thing and stuff but the other side of it too and kind of to piggyback of what you and Brian were talking about is
00:24:35
Speaker
Too often this year, it's only one guy on any play who's winning. It'll be like, Lucas looks like he's breaking down a tackle here. It's Kingsley is but were winning a rep here. It's Wyatt winning here. What what happened on the Packers one sack today?
00:24:53
Speaker
Rashawn and Aaron Mosby both win their reps and they meet at golf. And it just happens so fast that golf doesn't have a chance to step up in the pocket. And it's a big sack. you know it stuffs It stuffs a Detroit drive.
Offensive Failures Over Defensive Issues
00:25:54
Speaker
And as much as everyone's like old field conditions, blah, blah, blah, it hurts your pass rush too. So i I do have a hard, and this is probably the best old line that the Packers have faced this year. So you you combine all of that into one, and I have a hard time really questioning the pass rush or whatever kind of thing and stuff like I know Detroit took their foot off the gas but you did hold this offense which is a high-powered offense to a respectable total you know respectable totals like the the defense did not lose you this game
00:26:33
Speaker
It was the offense being unable to do anything worth a damn when the game was in the balance. That's what lost you this game. So, like, sure, I would love to see a five sack game against ah ah an offensive line that matters, i.e. not the Titans offensive line, but at the same time, like,
00:26:51
Speaker
You know, the Arizona game, I said, you know, I'm not mad that they didn't get a lot of pressures because Arizona wasn't playing a professional offense. They were just like, we're hitting three steps and we're just throwing the ball. I don't care if we throw it for negative yards, one yard, two yards, but we're just like not letting their pass rush even become part of the problem.
00:27:10
Speaker
It's, and today's game, yes, know, Rashawn had his best game as a pro against the Lions in Detroit last year. And at the same time, you look at the field conditions, game conditions, what Detroit was doing on offense.
00:27:26
Speaker
There's just so much more nuance than what people but most of the people who are yelling at any one thing, there's more nuance that they want to either admit or wrap their heads around. So i'm it's annoying, but I'm not putting the pass rush in the stale this week, if that makes sense. Like I said, it it's one of those things that i'm so I I'm starting to understand what I'm seeing a little bit more. That the edges are doing what needs to be done for the most part. They're collapsing the edges. But like you said, not everybody's doing their jobs together. It's like one guy will do one job, the other guy will do whatever else he thinks needs to be done. So it's...
00:28:16
Speaker
This is where I say the whole, well, Salah isn't going to be having anything to do with the defense thing. is It needs to be bullshit. I think all voices need to be heard about everything. yeah And I understand Halfly is doing a heck of a job with what he's got at the moment, but there is nothing wrong with having another voice. Yep. I agree.
00:28:43
Speaker
use every resource at your disposal and honestly like I know everyone's like oh but he's been there two or three weeks already this will be the first time because he wasn't in the building all offseason you know like this this bye week I'm somewhere between hoping and expecting to see fundamental differences you know whether it's you know It is Salah only you know in meetings with Lafleur about you know what he can expect defenses to do, blah, blah, blah. Or just halfly is talking to Salah behind closed doors, all that kind of stuff. I just don't think Salah's been around long enough to have a substantial impact just because
00:29:26
Speaker
you know like I'm sure he's sitting in on meetings and talking to the coaches and stuff, but the kind of implementations you would get from that kind of higher advanced scouting level, you don't see that in a one to two week turnaround kind of thing. Those take time and the bye week and facing a familiar opponent in the Bears coming out of the bye week. That's where I expect to see an impact from Salah's influx into the into the coaching staff.
00:29:54
Speaker
but Getting back on track with stale, I think, honestly, that's really it from the stale, because we've gone over the penalties and the drops. like The drops are somewhere between stale and moldy, it feeds all into the mental i the mental mistakes that are just plaguing this team and, honestly, capping them from reaching that next tier of contender that They've shown themselves to be at different times of this season. We've seen this offense operate at a highly proficient and efficient level. We've seen this defense just stop good offenses in their tracks or good decent to good offenses for times, you know, for extended periods of games.
00:30:39
Speaker
They're just so inconsistent because they keep making mistakes left and right. And that's the part that at the heart of that, that is the heart of the issue that this team is facing. And you've got to hope on hope that this bi-week gets them out of that rut. So yeah, let's just go ahead and jump into the moldy section. Cause it, it is there. There's too much overlap between.
00:31:05
Speaker
the two because one of the moldies I was going to do is is the drops. It's it's pretty sad when Jared Goff, who is supposed to be this horrible quarterback in the elements, who is wearing the, two gloves and everything else, had an eighty one point eight percent completion rating. And he was throwing some fucking ducks out there. Yeah. And the Packers who are supposed to be good in elements and shit like that.
00:31:33
Speaker
I don't even know what was I think love was only at like 60 some percent wasn't he? Yeah, if that and Peron said it during the he tweeted it during the game He's like when has Lambo truly been a consistent home field advantage like
00:31:52
Speaker
It feels like ever since Super Bowl 45, almost any time the element should be to Green Bay's advantage, they've just gotten their asses kicked by the opposition in the elements. And it's it's frustrating. It's just really frustrating. And like I said, you could see the signs of what should have been their advantage. Goff didn't throw a pretty pass except for the touchdown throw, all game.
00:32:20
Speaker
And you just couldn't take advantage of any of it. And it's so frustrating to see this team that has this storied history of what it's done in Lambo, all that kind of shit. And it just doesn't matter. Like you just allow all this stuff that should be an advantage to not mean a damn thing. Well, and this isn't to add to the constant griping about it, but that's the whole,
00:32:47
Speaker
hard about this gold package, green package thing. I understand you want to keep the gold package because it's got, you know, that was your way of thinking Milwaukee and all that stuff for, you know, not having to split between County Stadium and Lambo and all that stuff. But look at what's happening. More visiting team fans are showing up than Packer fans.
00:33:16
Speaker
If you can't go to the Packard Games, get off the damn list. yeah There's numerous people on the list that would love to have those those a lifetime season tickets, but there's also a number of them, and I know i know a few of them, who they they get the the season tickets, they go to one or two games and then they sell the rest of them out. Well, that just defeats the whole purpose of any kind of home field advantage.
00:33:45
Speaker
yeah Yeah, and I've hemmed and hawed on this topic. like And ultimately, we're getting to the point where I was three the last time the Packers played in Milwaukee. life It's been 31 years.
00:34:05
Speaker
like I know that I wasn't... you know like Bob Harlin will go to his grave saying how appreciative he is of Milwaukee fans, Milwaukee County Stadium, all that kind of stuff. but
00:34:21
Speaker
And like I said, I know a lot of people are gonna say like, you don't you're not from here, you're you know you don't know, blah, blah, blah. I appreciate the history. I understand how important that for that period of Packers history Milwaukee was and stuff. But like I said, that's a generation of ago. It's almost two generations of fans ago at this point. I'm sorry, like if you're gonna create a non-home in home crowd environment by loyalty. Loyalty has to go both ways. And like you said, Joe, there's a lot of fans who would be willing to go if those tickets were made available. And I don't know if the Packers have the balls to do it, but honestly, I'd be like,
00:35:09
Speaker
waiting for 35 years to come around and be like okay we've hit like a five or a 10 year mark kind of thing and it's time like we're you know People can say this is wrong and stuff like that. You can do shit where you can track IDs or whatever when you scan in for season tickets and stuff like that. And if it don't match, like if it don't match for X number of games in X number of years in a row, you get sent that letter that says like, you've got to fix this or sorry. Like you're not getting to keep the package kind of thing and stuff. And I know it's cold. I know it's heartless, but hey, like,
00:35:52
Speaker
the team wants a home field advantage and honestly the only reason the Packers won't do it is because to them that seat is filled and you know what I mean and that's the thing is like that's where it's kind of catch 22 because it's like that seat is gonna be filled no matter what you do so you know I think it's time I I do think it's time I agree with you and it's or if they were problem and Or if they really want to keep something like that then go back to playing one or two games in Milwaukee I'm sure they could figure something out with with What's the field it used to be Miller? What is it? Amfam now or something like that? Yeah American fam. I'm sure they could figure something out if they can turn Wrigley Field into friggin football stadium for a college football game I think they can do the same thing and
00:36:45
Speaker
In the Brewer Stadium, then you can at least give them a set of two games a year saying, all right, here's your two tickets. This is yours. And then the rest of them go back into the pool. And because this year it makes it worse because they gave all the gold package ticket holders, all the rivalry games. Yup. And I do hate that. Like.
00:37:11
Speaker
Yeah, I just hate that in the most important games of the season, they get first dibs to those tickets. scott athega
00:37:21
Speaker
That's the part, too, where I'm kind of like, you're already showing loyalty to Packers by continuing to do this package. You don't owe them any more by giving them the best games. There's a lot of layers to this.
00:37:37
Speaker
Honestly, I think they should get an AFC game and like a, you know, out of conference NFC game, even if it's like, you know, the the like, the third, you know, the matching place team in the other division kind of thing and stuff. But yeah.
00:37:53
Speaker
It's just, I think it's so past its due date that, and the toothpaste is so out of the tube, but there's ways you can shove some of it back in still. But before we go way too far down on that rabbit hole, my my my main ugly from this game. So I called out, we called out the Brian Branch penalty already, how like Detroit fans are stupid to complain about it.
Unsportsmanlike Conduct and NFL Penalties
00:38:16
Speaker
The ugly part of that plate isn't even the branch part of it. It's what, oh fuck.
00:38:23
Speaker
what I'm just totally blanking on the Ding Dong's name. 41 on the Lions. And I say it all the time, I tweet it all the time. the nfl The NFLPA, they always put out this front that, oh, protect the brotherhood, the players watch out for the players, blah, blah, blah, all that shit. James Houston, that's the fucker's name.
00:38:43
Speaker
they talk up They talk big all the time about how, oh, we watch out for each other. The players have each other's but back, blah, blah, blah. Then you have shit like the Brian Branch play or the bullshit that James Houston pulled where he fucking gator rolled loves bad leg. He knew it was his left leg. He knew what he was doing. He pulls him down by his leg and he gator rolls his ankle under underneath his full body weight and
00:39:12
Speaker
It's one of those ones where, again, why do you exist New York Replay Center? Why do you have to two referees in the back of the pocket? If you're going to let something that blatant happen, it's it's just downright dirty on a player-to-player level. Like I said, the NFL trying to say that the Brotherhood matters. It does it. It's a load of shit for telling fans to shut up about stuff that they don't want you to talk about.
00:39:40
Speaker
And it's a failure on the NFL's referee. Yeah, Houston is going to get some like $15,000 fine, blah, blah, blah. But it's just such a bullshit play. No, it didn't determine the outcome. I'm just happy Love didn't get further edger from it. But it's the kind of play that has no place in the sport. And it's going to continue to happen because the league thinks that a $15,000 fine is sufficient. Until they start suspending guys for doing that kind of shit,
00:40:08
Speaker
which they totally can and should because it's on fucking 4k HD and it's replayed it's on the live broadcast and it's reposted everywhere on Twitter it's that kind of shit that I'm that's the part where I'm like the brotherhood doesn't fucking matter because the league condones this it allows it it condones it it almost promotes it by not levying heavier punishment on players for doing this kind of shit. And that kind of thing should have no place in the game, even more than Brian Branch hitting melted in the face with his own element. That kind of shit has no place in the game. And it it doesn't. It really doesn't. i I know football is a physical sport, but it's physical and then there's beyond physical.
00:41:01
Speaker
And what you're talking about is the beyond physical moment where, you know, there's all these rules about how you can only hit the quarterback from one spot to another. You can't go below or above it and all this stuff, but it seems like you can do whatever the hell you want to when they're on the ground. And it's the same way with any other player. It seems like they can do whatever they want once they hit the ground.
00:41:25
Speaker
Yeah, and what's doubly stupid about that James Houston play is this thing should have been in fucking every referee's memo this week, because what happened last week to Justin Herbert? The fucking, oh fuck, who do did they play?
00:41:43
Speaker
totally blanking on who they are. But this happened to Justin Herbert last week. Same thing. He's been dealing with a high ankle sprain. Defensive lineman comes, twists his knee underneath the pile. And then this is how you know the league knows they fucked up. The Chargers center sees it happening and just blasts the guy on the ground who's doing it. That guy gets fined like $11,000. The center does not get fined.
00:42:08
Speaker
And that's how the, and I saw some people, yes, I do wish someone on the Packers did something about it. I don't know if they saw it happening in real time. Yes. Thank you as the Titans, but I don't know if.
00:42:23
Speaker
I don't know if anyone, oh yes, eight, thanks, sorry. I don't know if any of the packers online saw it. And also, this isn't an excuse, but they're so they're at eight penalties at that point. They're probably like, well, fuck, we can't do anything that gets us called for another penalty kind of thing and stuff. But yeah, that's the one, like I said, nothing's gonna come out of it. Cause Houston's gonna get some like 11 or $15,000 fine.
00:42:51
Speaker
And they're probably going to do it to love the next time they play. And oh, it's just part of the game. And I'm like, that's the kind of bullshit that, like I said, I don't believe a word when the NFL PA says like, we we're all about player safety. We care. The brotherhood cares about each other, blah, blah, blah, all that. It's all bullshit. They don't give a goddamn because they'll do whatever they think is needed to win. So it's that's my that's my absolute moldy of the moldy for this week.
00:43:21
Speaker
Well, and then to kind of add on that, they're about the them being about player safety and everything, but yet they let CD lamb continue to play in the Dallas game after everybody in the world knew that he was hurt. And instead of somebody stepping in and saying, sit your ass down, they just let him keep continue going out there and probably made whatever he's dealing with a lot worse. So.
00:43:48
Speaker
and It it's not about player safety. It's about what looks good and what doesn't look good And I'll say it I'm gonna use my moldy Jordan love And it it goes back to what I said earlier if he's that hurt sit his ass down If he can't drive off his front foot because his groins hurting him sit his ass down if if If he can't get over these stupid mistakes, sit his ass down because that's what's hurting the team more often than not. Yes, we get the exciting plays like the throwing into triple coverage against the Rams to Jayden Reed and and stuff like that. But we're also getting the boneheaded plays like the two interceptions pick sixes that should have never been thrown.
00:44:40
Speaker
I understand what he was trying to do today with Josh Jacobs, but like I tried to explain it earlier on the live stream. I don't think Jacobs was an active participant in that play. He was supposed to just be purely pass block. And he just happened to get out there. He wasn't ready for that ball. And the safety knew, read it 100%.
00:45:10
Speaker
and And now this isn't just a Jordan Love thing. It's an organizational top down thing. Yeah. Right. But no, this other part of it that I'm going to say isn't a Jordan Love thing. The throwing into double coverage stuff that gets a player hurt thing. So yeah, they took he took a chance on the throw to Melton.
00:45:38
Speaker
And Branch went way too far with it. But we saw it earlier in the Saints game where Alave went across the middle and got absolutely crunched because David Carr threw it right to him. Right in a spot that is a dangerous area. So you got to put that kind of stuff on a quarterback too because he needs to be seeing what kind of coverage is out there right then and there. He needs to know what he's throwing into.
00:46:05
Speaker
He can't allow his players to take or his receivers to take hits like that. If going back to what you said, they're about player safety. But Jordan deserves to be in the multi this week because like I said, if he's hurt, sit his ass down. If he's struggling making reads, sit his ass down.
00:46:25
Speaker
Yeah and and that was when my internet was dropping out really bad but I know Andy Herman tried to like not excuse the play but you know kind of defend him where you know where Love is lined up with Zach Tom he can't see Kirby and he can only see Jacobs and stuff but Tom Brady was absolutely correct it's like it's second and one the play has just gone to holy hell at that point don't And even Brady said, like, I understand what Jordan's thinking, like, oh, like, I can get it to Jacobs and we can, you know, possibly pick up like 10 to 15 and, you know, we'll, you know, we'll we'll get a first down. But that's a lot of hypotheticals. Just chuck the thing out of bounds at that point. Live to play another day. He almost did the same thing, right? The play before Wicks dropped what should have been a touchdown. He almost made the same mistake where it's like, just throw the thing, just throw it away kind of thing. And like,
00:47:21
Speaker
I keep playing that clip of Mike Holmgren with, know, I think it's a second year Brett Favre in Green Bay, the one where, and it's on every Brett Favre video, it's the one where Holmgren's going, throw it away, throw it away, throw it away, and Brett throws an interception, I think it's against the Redskins, and Holmgren is just left going, why did he, why did he,
00:47:45
Speaker
Why did he do that? And I think it's the one where there's a young Steve Marucci walking in the background up the sideline and homegirls make the switch, change the quarterback, and then he doubles back and is like, never mind. No, don't do it. But he's got to know he's effing up kind of thing and stuff. And it's it's that kind of stuff where I understand what Jordan is doing. I understand that he's also seeing like, hey, guys are messing up, guys are dropping passes on plays that we should have had.
00:48:19
Speaker
You know, no, the throw to Brooks wasn't perfect, but you know, you'd like to have that one back. Tucker dropping that third down pass was totally out of character. That was the play right before the, um what's his face? McManus missed field goal. You had the drop by Dobbs that didn't really matter because they ended up moving to change the next play. but you know you You go through that and it's like, oh, like I've got to make this next play because you know everyone else is having a rough time, so I'm going to be the guy to step up. And it's like, you don't need to do that in this offense. You have so much talent at your disposal. I know that it hasn't been going your way in a lot of spots, but you've got to trust the guys around you and take the easy plays and stuff. and
00:49:08
Speaker
that's And you know like I said, people don't you know people have their biases against Brady. I actually think he's okay. I do agree with you that he's hamstrung by his whole ownership stake. And like I do kind of think it's stupid that he's announcing games with all the limitations on him because of his minority ownership stake. But I actually think he's not bad at the job. I joked about it earlier. Everyone was like, oh, he was so bad when I was like,
00:49:34
Speaker
He is an awkward guy. He's kind of a dork. And so it was always going to take him so much. But I refuse to believe that the guy who made his career on being the most prepared player on either team was not going to at least be decent as a TV announcer, as a color commentator. And people don't like hearing the truth. And all the stuff, the critiques he was making about Jordan's game, they were all correct. And you can hear,
00:50:04
Speaker
like if you listen to it with an with a unbiased against Brady view you can hear in his tone that he wants to light Jordan's game so much you want you can hear that he's like he is so close to being so good right now kind of thing But you can just hear the pain every time he sees Jordan like he should have thrown that ball away two seconds ago. He should have just taken that pass right there. And like him or not, Brady is the guy that maximized knowing when to take a shot and when to check it down. That was Roger's biggest failure is he never could get out of
00:50:46
Speaker
quickly going to the check down when it was the more efficient option. He was always going get big game hunting. And you can just hear it in Brady's broadcast where he's like, it's there. Like you can hear him almost like trying to like yell into love's ear like, just do this kind of thing and stuff. And yeah, like, he's gotta be better. Like no, if hands are, and like I said, you can't grave quarterback play on a curve.
00:51:15
Speaker
But the pick six just completely muddies what was a solid good game from Jordan outside of it. I thought he, other than that pick six was pretty damn good. Couldn't give him the elements, the drops around him. I thought but and that's the thing is that a pick six it's an F it's like when you when you're a B plus student and you get that one F and it drops you to a C student that's how GPAs work that's how playing quarterback works you you can't just ignore one bad mistake like that what it is like you said Joe
00:51:54
Speaker
totally unnecessary when the correct option is just dirt the ball or throw it out of bounds at that point.
Criticism of Jordan Love's Risky Plays
00:52:01
Speaker
Take the safe option, understand the game situation, and just play live to play the next play. I think I speak for the whole group by saying the only reason you're sucking up to Tom Brady is because he's a Wolverine alum.
00:52:20
Speaker
But yeah, like, he's got to be better. I agree with you. He's got to be better. He does. And that's what puts him in the moldy. is and like i And I'm sorry I didn't get any examples because I was busy doing other things. But there have been quarterbacks in the past that have been able to break out of that gunslinger mentality.
00:52:41
Speaker
they don't come But it's not like a complete flip. Yeah. They just start to learn where, OK, I can gunshling it here, but I know I got to pull it off here. Two of his contemporaries are that guy, Mahomes and Alan. You know, Alan has like one interception on the season and he's been a turnover magnet for his whole career. So and we saw Jordan do this the second half of last season. So, yeah, I know some people are like, is the extension of mistake, blah, blah, blah.
00:53:13
Speaker
It's only a mistake if he spirals down and I don't think he's going to. I do think it's partly playing her, partly because he's trying to compensate for guys not making plays around him. But the guy, I do think he is more the guy who just played almost lights out down the stretch last season than he's been this inconsistent turnover machine to open the season so far.
00:53:38
Speaker
Let's see, is there anything else we want to talk about as a moldy? and Well, I do. I want to bring this up because it just popped up on my my Twitter. It's from Matt Schneiderman. And the reason I'm bringing it up is it's not a shut the fuck up moment. It's not. I wish it was, but it's not. But he just he goes five quick thoughts after rewatching the game. One, Eric Wilson's tackling was bad and he puts it in my asterisk. It's bad.
00:54:06
Speaker
I know it was wet, but Elton Jenkins was brutal snapping. Now this one. I'm going to agree, but disagree. While yes, he had some issues when it came to snapping like shotgun snaps. Oh, I just lost Mike again. While he had issues snapping a shotgun snaps, I put those a little bit more on on Jordan, because even Brady was pointing that out that the snaps were hitting Jordan in the same spot on every snap. So it was a consistent snap. Jordan just wasn't adjusting his footwork, and that's why he kept losing the ball off the snap. It was it was snapped right to his left knee and it kept bouncing right off his left knee.
00:55:02
Speaker
Uh, uh, Brady said it. I can't even think who was with Brady. I don't know who's broadcasting with Brady, but they said it. Yeah. I forget. I don't know if it's Burkhardt or yeah. But so the snapping, I don't put on more Elton Jenkins. I think Jordan just didn't adjust for it. Uh, number three, Josh Jacobs is probably their best offensive player, but big deficits. Deficits will have plenty of time left render him useless as runner.
00:55:31
Speaker
have to avoid ones like in Vikings lines losses. Number four is four, four third down drops. All would have been first downs. They preceded a punt, made field goal, missed field goal on a failed fourth down. And then he throws this one in here. Tom Brady just belly laughs after every good play. So, you know, all the things that he says there make a ton of sense. You know, the drops hurt. Yeah. Josh Jacobs is probably ah MVP.
00:56:01
Speaker
of the team. I disagree with the Jenkins one just because I don't think it's so much him at the snaps. It's just Jordan wasn't adjusting to receive the snap. But then again, I haven't went back to rewatch the game. I'm just going off of what I saw during during the live. But yeah, and then Eric Wilson's tackling was bad. So everybody who was praising Eric Wilson for the other games really had a wake up call in this game.
00:56:30
Speaker
yeah and the snap thing i do think what i i think the part where brady kind of screwed up saying it is Elton was snapping better most of the game. Those two snaps were to his two worst by far, though. And he Brady is right that they both hit the same spot. But also, el as Elton, and that's the thing that's so baffling. I know he hasn't played a whole game at center in like three years, but we've seen him play really well at center. And it's...
00:57:05
Speaker
I it's on him it's on love blah blah all that kind of stuff it just goes to show like for me it's more like it's just unfortunate that it happened when it happened and they didn't lose the game because of it but it was more to me a microcosm of why they lost the game they just lost the details at the worst time possible and that was just the last time that they did it in this game and That's why you lose games to good teams. is
00:57:35
Speaker
you you you know No matter how talented you are, if you're making over a dozen mental mistakes a game, you're not going to win. I don't i don't care how good you are compared to the other team. It's definitely not going to happen if you're on even tier from a talent perspective. So, yeah.
00:57:56
Speaker
lots for this team to grow and learn from over the by. But we we could keep circling back on these points all night, Joe. I'm pretty over it at this point. You got anything else?
00:58:11
Speaker
I do kind of have a bad and and it's not so much a bad, but it's I wish he would have done something different. And it so it really doesn't fit in a stale or a moldy, but on one of the punts returns by Jayden Reed. I understand he fair caught it because it was, he wasn't sure on the footing, but he was wide open. There was never was no one with a 20. I know exactly what there was no one. It was, oh shit. Yeah. It was in the, it was like the first or second punt he fielded in the third quarter. And it's just like, there is no one fucking there. Like there is no one there.
00:58:53
Speaker
and And it's just like, oh, that had been such a boost. But you know, it is what it is. oh So, yeah, that's about all I got for this game. I do just want to throw out there again that this episode will release on Tuesday. Tuesday is the election day. Please get out and vote. Do what it is for you. a You know, what we have our rights to do. Go out, vote, make your voice heard.
00:59:20
Speaker
I always believe you don't have a right to bitch about anything if you don't go out and use your vote. So go out, vote.
00:59:27
Speaker
Yep. So that's going to do it for us tonight. Please check out the website, ohanapackers.org, blog posts, streams of the episodes. I'm trying to think of something to write over the bi-week. I don't want to do just ah ah the of the team that everyone does and stuff. So I'm gonna try to get creative with it and I'll hopefully have something for the readers out there this week. Most importantly, check the shop out, check out the merch, please support the channel, new new merch out, so please continue to check it on a regular basis. Follow the podcast on social media apps,
01:00:08
Speaker
that will um underscore packers on twitter at ohana packers edition on instagram and then just search ohana pack edition on facebook please follow the podcast on your favorite podcasting app we ask that you give us a like and a subscribe and all of your comments we hear all of it so that we produce the content you're looking at but at least they're in playoff position at this point but they've got a lot to improve on if they want to make the playoffs and
01:00:38
Speaker
the make any kind of noise if they do make the playoffs. So a lot of learning, a lot of development, but the buy does come at a good time for especially the young guys on this team. Maybe you'll see more from like a Kitan Oladapo or a Tehran Hopper coming out of the buy.
01:00:54
Speaker
You hope hope that Edge Cooper is kind of moving into more of a starter slot out of the buy. And you're hoping that guys like Jordan, Evan Williams are able to come out of the buy healthy. But we'll cover all of that as we move through this week and prep for Chicago in week 10, 11. I can do math. It's late on a Sunday, but I will try to do math still. But that's it. That's Iowa Joe. I might go pack goal and aloha.