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OPE Season 3 Episode 45 The Blitz Brothers: Packers Linebacker Talk
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Aloha and welcome to another episode of OPE! We are in week 5 of our pre draft breakdown. We are joined by Jason Perone of PackADay podcasts as we break down the Inside Linebackers! We look at the current state of the Packers, any potential free agent fits and what draft prospects fit the Packers mold!
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction and Episode Preview
00:00:21
Speaker
Aloha and welcome back to the Ahana Packers Edition podcast. Today's pre-draft episode, we're previewing the linebacker position and we have Jason Perrone from almost anything Packers related.
00:00:32
Speaker
Jason, I have but one question for you. How's the weather?
Weather Updates and Listener Engagement
00:00:35
Speaker
I know you you and you you guys don't do that as much anymore, but I always have to ask what we have you on. How's the weather? and Thank you. No, a Pack-A-Day podcast. And actually, Mark Echel and I do the Thursday edition of the Pack-A-Day podcast and we have kind of brought the weather back.
00:00:50
Speaker
Nice. This year. So we've we started doing it again, and we've we've been getting more interaction from some of our fans, some of which are overseas. So it's really cool to get the weather. We've gotten our regulars from Europe. We got some from Australia.
00:01:04
Speaker
So, you know, right now, it's actually kind of eventful here. in that I'm in the Phoenix area. So it's it's it's warm. It was a high of 76 today. And it's going to be in like, it's all over the place. It drops down to 60 tomorrow,
00:01:21
Speaker
up to 75 Wednesday. But then on Friday, like rain and 58 degrees. so we're all over we're We're all over the place. And then and then it climbs back into the 70s.
00:01:32
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know. Mother Nature, she she do what she do. But the sun shines out here. you know we talk about 330 days of sunshine in Phoenix, so I'm i'm not going to complain. Winter is is going well.
00:01:44
Speaker
It's going well. Thanks, guys, for having me on. It's good to be back. Mike, we are not going to start the weather stuff with us because you're in paradise and I'm in hell.
00:01:54
Speaker
But it's okay because Joe is still with us. So he's alive
Packers Linebacker Roster Discussion
00:01:57
Speaker
and well. but As I said, this week we have linebackers. Just to kind of recap where the Packers are this season.
00:02:05
Speaker
So the big dominoes they have following this offseason. Quay Walker is going into his fourth season. But as a first-round pick, that means that his fifth-round option is due... I think it's like the first week of July or something. The decision is like the somewhere in June or July.
00:02:23
Speaker
You have two guys coming off rookie seasons that were in very opposite directions in Edge Cooper and Hopper. And then on potentially on their way out are... Excuse me.
00:02:38
Speaker
Oh, my God. I'm having a massive brain fart. Joe House. Eric Wilson and Isaiah McCuffey. Thank you. So two guys who were, you know...
00:02:48
Speaker
either spot starters, chair holders, however you want to view it. They're guys who were big special teams contributors, but guys you, you know, not to put it, you know, marginally or anything, but guys you wanted to see have their starting spot replaced. So we're going to get this one right this week. First off, Perrone, your thoughts on re re-sign him or let him go for R2, McDuffie, and Wilson this offseason?
00:03:15
Speaker
i I'm a big staunch supporter of Eric Wilson. I think his versatility, to the special teams thing is important. And when he's had to play, he's been effective in the in the middle more so. think he offers a little more than McDuffie. He just, you know, he's he's a more well-routed player. I like them both.
00:03:30
Speaker
And I don't know how much the Boston College connection with Jeff Halfley plays a difference with McDuffie. think McDuffie is a you know, he's kind of almost like a slightly better player Speaking of brain farts, why am i blanking now?
00:03:48
Speaker
our guy that the guy Our guy we had in the middle for Blake Martinez. Yes, Blake Martinez. Gosh, he's been gone for that long. That's why I forgot who he was. he's So he's he's kind of like a Blake Martinez. He's able to fill in, but obviously you can tell there's a deficit in speed when he's out there. So I would say Wilson over McDuffie if it's an either-or situation.
00:04:08
Speaker
I wouldn't imagine keeping both would be very expensive, but again, I guess that depends also on how the Packers see the position and if they want to focus on it in the draft or look at some of these free agents that
Potential Linebacker Acquisitions
00:04:18
Speaker
are coming. Yeah, so I'm just going to throw a few names out there. A lot of these guys are guys that you're, you know, if you're quoting Major League, wish we had them five years ago. And don't worry, none of them are going to fall into the, we did.
00:04:33
Speaker
let's I was thinking the same thing that I was going through the list. and I was like, man, that's the name I wish we had four years ago. That's the name I wish we had four years ago. About the only guy on this list, and ironically, he's the oldest by a few years, but Levante David, Dre Greenlaw, Jerome Baker, Isaiah Simmons, Kazir White, and then...
00:04:59
Speaker
There's going to be a bunch of names that sickos like me would know, but I'm not sure many other people would know. But Joe, Jason, any of those names sound like guys that, you know, I don't see this as a position Goot's going to break the bank on. I think that's on either corner or some sort of pass rusher. But any of those guys you think could be brought in for like kind of the same role that McDuffie and Wilson covered this past season?
00:05:24
Speaker
I don't know. It'd be a late free agent thing if they did. it may mean, there was some, some, I think Andy did a preview. Andy Herman did a preview on Packity about Levante David being an older veteran option, but the Packers want youth and speed.
00:05:38
Speaker
And these guys, obviously they're, they're kind of past that point in their career. Bobby Wagner's another one too, with Washington. He's, you know he's, he's out there too. Zach Bond is listed, but the Eagles are bringing him back. I mean, it dont they don't have a Super Bowl if he if he doesn't didn't play with them like this past year, and he was a huge, huge get for them, too.
00:05:57
Speaker
i don't know if you mentioned Nick Bolton, too. I think you did. So, you know, again, this this is just... tea leaves and look at what they've done in the past and and inside backer just hasn't been a big place where they've spent a lot of money so it's going to end up being one of those things where it gets like late into free agency a guy hasn't signed and he's willing to talk to other teams and and maybe becomes an option but I think the Packers want, they want youth and speed. They hit, you know, Goody's probably feeling himself a little bit after hitting the mother load with Edron Cooper.
00:06:27
Speaker
And he'll probably try to dip back into that, you know, because you you got edge in the second round. Now I wouldn't flirt with disaster again and not, not, you know, hope a a guy drops that doesn't. if you want to really, really impact player.
00:06:37
Speaker
But I think he'll probably try to take another stab at it with with youth. And you do still have Quay Walker for this one more season. I agree with, I assume you guys agree with too, obviously, you know, them not picking up that fifth year option.
00:06:50
Speaker
Yeah, as much as the two of us are to different degrees Kuei defenders, I just, that fifth-year option, it's so, like, it's tough. You've got to be an impact player to pick that up.
00:07:01
Speaker
I'd say it's more likely they extend him, you know, they sign him to some kind of extension, which there's been some light reports to. I'd say they do that well before they pick up the option. So, and in somewhere in there, you let him play the year out and you potentially cap you know tag him to
Quay Walker's Future
00:07:17
Speaker
extend him next year kind of thing.
00:07:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, and I think Goody said that during his, what was it, the press conference before the Combine or whatever, that there were that they were kind of talking about and extension wanting to keep Quay here for an extended period of time.
00:07:35
Speaker
So I do wonder, like Mike said, if they would do a Jordan Love-esque type deal instead of picking up the fifth year option than maybe, you know, give them a two year deal or three year deal or whatever and say, all right, this is your time. You know, you're, this is your make or break.
00:07:55
Speaker
If you don't do it at this point, you're done. We're not going to bring you back, whatever. Or if you, if you live up to the, to the potential that we're hoping you do, then, you know, we'll, we'll talk about an extra lung extension for you. But yeah,
00:08:11
Speaker
Yeah, like Mike said, we've kind of been quay defenders. i don't think he's been as horrible as a lot of Packers fans think has. i think he's done well with what he's dealt with.
00:08:25
Speaker
I mean, it doesn't help getting injured a couple different times this year. And, you know, when he so started to see come into his own, he would end up getting kind of like Devontae Wyatt did. They'd come into their own, they'd get a little bit injured, and then they'd have to work back from that.
00:08:39
Speaker
They'd come into their own, get a little bit injured, and then they'd have to work back from it. so I do think that they need to maybe take the green dot off of him because I think maybe that is harming him more than helping him because I don't think he is a guy that can... Not that he can't. I shouldn't say can't.
00:08:58
Speaker
I don't think he... he
00:09:01
Speaker
I don't think he can process... pushing out the play on top of trying to figure out what he's going to do. So if they can just limit his job to say, all right, kind of like they did with Edge Cooper this past season, breed and react. your whole Your gap is that gap.
00:09:18
Speaker
You're going to make a play on that gap. If this guy comes out, then you can do on that. So, you know, maybe give the dot to Xavier McKinney or, you know, somebody like that to say, all right you're going to make the, you're going to make the play calls. you're going to make the decisions.
00:09:32
Speaker
Quay is just going to do his job at that point. Now, as for guys that potentially come in to maybe replace McDuffie and Wilson, I'm going to put two names out there, but I know I'm going to get ripped for bias and,
00:09:50
Speaker
That's going to be the Neiman brothers, either Ben or Nick. Both of them have the ability to be a role-type player and also be that special teams type guy.
00:10:01
Speaker
i don't think they're going to be able to take a full-time starting position, but at this moment you don't need a full-time starter per se. But he they can both be that rotational type guy, fill in when need be, and then be that special teams ace.
00:10:17
Speaker
Or hell, bring Christian Welch back. I mean, he was both me and frigging Guano both could not understand why, you know, with the way they were playing during the preseason, why they weren't able to fit Welch onto the team at that point. But, you know, it is what it is.
00:10:36
Speaker
i Another name that I noticed on here while i was going through it was the kid from Seattle, Ernest jones oh Jones. I think he could I think he could be a guy if he makes it into free agency.
00:10:52
Speaker
And then I also thought of this one because I saw his name out there, and that would be old friend Chris Barnes.
00:11:01
Speaker
I wonder if he could be that guy that could rotate it. And he's still young enough. I think he's only 26, maybe going on 27. So, you know you know, he's not going to be doing much when it comes to coverage.
00:11:14
Speaker
but he can give you that downhill stuff that a McDuffie can do. so And then on top of that, McDuffie and Wilson, i'm one of I'm on the fence on that.
00:11:26
Speaker
I think I could go either way. If they bring him back, yeah, great, whatever. you know it's not going to hurt me, anything. If they don't bring him back, okay, whatever. But if those are the only things that they do at the position this year – then I might be a little bit more upset about it than anything.
00:11:45
Speaker
So I think like Perron said that they're going to reach into it it during the draft, whether it's, you know, a mid round, late round guy, or, you know, who knows, it could be the first round pick all over again. don't know. got to try to save, we got to save Chris Barnes from the Arizona Cardinals. Cause just,
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah, anybody that's stuck out here, just help him out. Help him out. We got to save Marzzi. He played a lot in that game. I think he started against Packers. Didn't he play most of that game? He had to jump in there because they had injuries. and I think they were down like two or three linebackers and and another one got hurt during the game.
00:12:21
Speaker
yeah and yeah and I was joking in our recap that Love goes out to like throw a block and i was like, I swear to God he doesn't do that if he doesn't see 5-1 on his jersey because he's like, my best buddy's not blowing me up in sun. And that would be another reason to bring him back in is because him and love are like best friends.
00:12:41
Speaker
So if they would do it for Rogers, why aren't they going to do it for love? You know, already, already let's get him emboldened. Let's accelerate the emboldenment program here. And that's not wait till year six or seven.
00:12:54
Speaker
And it's not like he's bringing in the old guy, old friend, you know. Like I said, Barnes is still only 26, 27 years old, so he's got a few years left on him. Old in terms of how long they've known each other, not age. But as as you both have kind pointed at, this is a position that we hope they do address at some point in this draft. So we'll start to key in on that direction. Luckily, the linebackers just participated by the time you're listening to this, I guess a few days ago. But when we're recording this on Sunday, linebacker day was yesterday or the day before. I think it was two days before.
00:13:29
Speaker
But it's good to see, you know, some of the drills on the field and stuff. But... Jason, any of those names that stick out to you in that day one, day two window that you know could entice Groot to dip it back into that pool of off-ball linebackers again?
Linebacker Prospects Consideration
00:13:46
Speaker
Well, I have a couple here. And I think linebacker it's is also it's it's one of those sneaky positions in a lot of NFL defenses because when you have really, really good defense and and good linebackers in the middle, you can do so much more elsewhere within within the framework of of what you do.
00:14:04
Speaker
And I look at, if you think back to like the days of Patrick Willis, Navarro Bowman, Devin White, Levante David, we mentioned David, Urlacher and Briggs. Last year, Zach Bond was everywhere for the Eagles.
00:14:16
Speaker
And they got him for a song. I think it's it is an important position. It's one the Packers haven't put a lot of emphasis on and until they did last year. They struck gold with Edge Cooper. And I think...
00:14:28
Speaker
you know Get greedy, Brian Gutekunst. Now, my question is so to you guys and maybe Mike, because I know that you you kind of preview and you do some of this stuff here too. So Jahad Campbell projects as more of an edge, but he also is listed as an inside linebacker. So where do we think he's going to fall? Because obviously I think he could be kind of like the golden egg of the draft, but that depends on where everybody sees him fitting.
00:14:57
Speaker
yeah So in an ideal world where I would have Jahad Campbell going is more day two-ish kind of thing, because like you said, he's not a pure off-ball linebacker, but the way I would use him is like almost a, almost like a Parsons light kind of thing where it's like, he's your Sam linebacker on rundowns.
00:15:18
Speaker
And then you, you know, use him as an edge rusher or like spot blitzer here and there kind of thing. And you just, it just adds another element to your defense that you didn't really have last year. You know, that was the thing is like,
00:15:31
Speaker
you had, you know, because Cooper was being both brought along, he's being brought along slowly, both because he's a rookie and because he was injured for like training camp. So like there was a, there was a learning curve that he was behind for almost all of the season. So you, at some point we're like, there's one or two linebackers on the field that you're like, we don't want in coverage.
00:15:53
Speaker
And so, whereas going into this year, hypothetically, you're going to have both Quay and Edge on the field for 90% plus of all your snaps. And then, you know, you bring in Jihad, let's say, to pay be your Sam linebacker.
00:16:07
Speaker
And having, like you said, Jason, just being that much more athletic in your linebacking core, it allows you to be so much more versatile where it's like... like In the, you know, it' since the Super Bowl, since the Packers won the Super Bowl, it's like, well, the opponent is in but some sort of receiver heavy group.
00:16:26
Speaker
We're going to a sub package kind of thing. But, you know, one of the things that like the... the Bowman, Patrick Willis, 49ers did is like those two guys were so athletic that they could play base against like three receiver packages and stuff. And not saying you want to live in that environment, but, you know, especially against like hurry up offenses or just – to kind of disguise what you're doing.
00:16:51
Speaker
It just makes your defense a little more multiple. If you have three guys at the second level of your defense who are athletic enough to pull off coverage assignments, but also like affect the past game as blitzers and whatnot. So that's where...
00:17:05
Speaker
That's where I would have him in that early day two window where I'd be like, yeah, like if you got him kind of where you got edge last year, I'd be really excited about that from Campbell. know I'll sound like a West Coast homer, but what about UCLA, Schwestinger, Carson Schwestinger from UCLA?
00:17:21
Speaker
So that's a guy that... He's kind of like Quay in a way where he hasn't been playing linebacker very long. I forget if he was like He only started one season. Yeah.
00:17:34
Speaker
And I think it's because like he's one of those guys where it's like he came out of high school as like a tight end or a quarterback or something like that. And UCLA, it took them a couple seasons to like really find his position and stuff. But, I mean, the testing showed it. you It does pop on film when you watch him. like He does move really easy out there.
00:17:52
Speaker
and oh he does feel like a good pick and it's like this, you know, relatively uber athlete who doesn't have a lot of, you know, flight time at the position. But when you pop the film on, you you see him run around out there and you're like, dang, that would be nice to have that in your linebacker room. So either one of those guys, you know,
00:18:12
Speaker
Schlesinger is a little more able to play in reverse than Campbell, but also like just the different versatility these those two guys would give you around Quay and Cooper would be really nice to add to the defense.
00:18:26
Speaker
Now, in my opinion, i really don't know anything about Campbell. I didn't really watch him too much, but I do agree with Schlesinger. I really liked what I saw off of him. you know he He's got decent speed to him.
00:18:38
Speaker
he he His coverage, like Mike said, his coverage looked okay, but you know he did have his moments where it's like, okay, what am I doing? What am I doing? But i thought he he had a good change of direction. He was a solid tackler, and I thought he was a read and react guy as well.
00:18:55
Speaker
you know i I think he could be that every down linebacker to fit with an edge and quay out there. Yeah. Campbell, it sounds like more of a Micah Parsons type deal where you're mainly going to want him just headlong into the line to go after the quarterback. So if I had to take my chance on either one of them, I would probably go with the kid from UCLA more than I would Campbell.
00:19:23
Speaker
But yeah, so it really just comes down to what, you know, what they're looking for out of that third linebacker spot. Because like I said, you've got hypothetically your two guys who can be your rangy coverage athletes.
00:19:35
Speaker
So do you look for another guy who can overlap with that? You know, especially if... There's a high probability that Edge is still going to be blitzed a decent chunk out of his time that he's on the field because you you want to use that explosive athleticism to attack the quarterback.
00:19:51
Speaker
So do you get a guy who has a little bit more coverage chops or – Do you go with a guy who's more of a rusher who will just be attacking the line of scrimmage more? and that's kind of what your Sam linebacker is anyway. it's you know He's an overhang defender who's going to kind of help him in the run and stuff and then also get to the quarterback. So I...
00:20:12
Speaker
I guess it's hard to say because this is a part of his defense where Halfley was sort of hemmed in in terms of what he had in his back pocket for the position. So we can't really say, you know, last year was totally what he wants to do because we never saw what he could or wanted to do with three like really athletic players on the field. He was always kind of behind the eight ball there, whether it's because of the preseason injuries, Hopper and Cooper, you know, we're dealing with or whatever. So yeah,
00:20:41
Speaker
im yeah It's hard to give a full answer because we just there's that's part of the unknown. i feel like we got to see 60%, 70% of the iceberg of Halfley's defense this year, but linebacker is definitely one where it's like, oh, like...
00:20:56
Speaker
Because as Joe kind of pointed out earlier, it took Edge about half the season to where they're like, we're pretty comfortable. He knows most of what he's doing most of the time. And then Kuei took off at that point. And then he got hurt in Seattle.
00:21:11
Speaker
And then it was like, it's Cooper's got to do everything at linebacker because McDuffie and Wilson are, you know, they're they're kind of traffic cones in coverage as opposed to being like effective players. So I am curious to see what that's going to look like this year.
00:21:26
Speaker
That's the other question too, is, is, is can Goody resist the temptation to helmet scout and just look at Georgia's roster? Now you've got, you have smile Monda and I don't know if i'm pronouncing his name correctly. Now I think the knock on him is, I don't think he, he's, his frame will allow for much more growth.
00:21:46
Speaker
So I think he projects as a Mike, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's a day three guy, special teamer more than anything. Yeah, I think so. The fact that he's got into the combine at like 224, I think that kind of speaks to where he's at.
00:21:59
Speaker
It's a little bit smallish. so you know but But then the other – I guess the question is, is is this this just doesn't seem like a position that Gutz is going to take a couple stabs at. like He's loaded up, and I think this year if he's going to load up, linebacker is probably not going to be where it's where it's going to be. It'll end up being at cornerback, which is obviously a huge need, or it could even be at bit receiver. i have I have no idea, but – uh an edge i mean they need you know they need they need edge players preston smith is gone although he is back out there i'm sure he's not coming back to green bay so but you know that's that was another one that i saw there too was was just you know there's there's certain schools that keep keep popping and so there's there's a georgia player that's there that's that's got some temptation written all over it for goody but we'll see what he does
00:22:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's just interesting, too, because before, you know, we were playing a defense that aligned more with what Georgia was doing in terms of it was like a 3-4 base with some of the same sub package, you know, tendencies.
00:22:57
Speaker
And now that we're moving to half least I'm curious. yeah You don't system scout and all that kind of stuff, but you could kind of extrapolate where the fits would be and stuff. So I'm kind of curious to see how that pulls in as well.
00:23:11
Speaker
But I agree with you. That's why I do have line off-ball linebacker as like a sneaky day-two pick where if one of the top names kind of slips into, like I said, that edge range, you could see Groot taking it. Because i agree with you, Perron, that this isn't a position that's going to get multiple picks this season unless it's like a late...
00:23:29
Speaker
day three guy that's just like, you know, you're taking like a Sam Shields equivalent where it's just like, it's not a perfect player, but he's a 10 Raz and you're just going to see if you can teach him the football kind of thing.
00:23:41
Speaker
But otherwise, you know, you you invested two day two picks in the position last year. You didn't get to see one of them play basically at all in any game that mattered. So I agree with you that, yeah, like you're going to see, you know, a guy who can push Hopper for a spot and, you know, potentially be there in case Kueh isn't back in 2026.
00:24:02
Speaker
But otherwise, yeah, it's it's more of like a medium-ish range, you know, medium range in terms of, like, projection of when you expect that guy to play, as opposed to, like, a we need a guy that's going to definitely play now. it's It's somewhere, obviously, if he can play now, that's awesome, but it's more like a just-in-case Hopper can't do it, and if Kuei isn't, you know, if...
00:24:25
Speaker
The majority of what you know we've seen from Quay is the guy, not the guy from the last like few games before we got hurt. So, yeah, it'll be interesting to see how they they attack it come this draft.
00:24:37
Speaker
Well, I will say this. Depending on what the Packers do in the draft when it comes to inside linebacker, we'll show what they're planning to do with Quay.
00:24:49
Speaker
So if they take one early, then you've got to believe Quay is only playing one more season with the Packers and then he's on his way out unless he takes like a really team-friendly contract or something.
00:25:00
Speaker
And then on top of that, the certain type of player that they take will also show Quay is sticking around or not. Because if they're going to take a guy that has similar traits to what Quay has, but his but you know his he's got a higher floor than what Quay did,
00:25:17
Speaker
and can produce better, more like an edge Cooper than the Quay, then that also shows that, you know, that they're not going to be, they're not too much high, more with Quay on the roster than they are.
00:25:29
Speaker
So I think, and I think that's what they're going to be looking for is somebody that could do what Quay does, but depending on if they take it early or late is going to show if, whether or not they're to keep Quay around.
00:25:46
Speaker
Yeah, i I think that's fair. And lot of questions still to be answered. You know, unfortunately, his health didn't give us the clarity that we wanted to see with him in the new defense. I think we all hope that he was going to blossom and flourish and in this. And maybe if If they kind of like, like you said, took some of that responsibility away.
00:26:07
Speaker
i you know, I don't want to make it sound like he can't handle the green dot, but it's, you know, it's, it's, it's extra things. It's other things that, you know, some, some players just need to be turned loose and, know,
00:26:18
Speaker
and go and get after it. So as it always does, the the draft will tell us kind of what the what the Packers think about certain players. I just think, I don't know, I i feel like this is a this is probably a late day to definitely more of a day three type of a thing. And if you want to if you want to go full Homer, and this is I think he's pretty far down the list here too, so I'm only doing this for you, Joe, but Jay Higgins out of Iowa.
00:26:44
Speaker
is your classic lunch pail linebacker, special teamer. Like Mike said, take a flyer guy. So before we before we got out and didn't mention any Iowa boys, I wanted to make sure to give some love to to your your locale.
00:27:02
Speaker
Well, there's actually two of them. There's Nick Jackson and Jay Higgins, and I think both of them would – it really sucks what's going on with Jay Higgins right now because he's falling into the typical Iowa trap where all through the season they're talked about as this high, you know top of the round, you know top of the draft type of guy, and then they go in and test, and all of a sudden they just fall flat everywhere.
00:27:25
Speaker
And you know it doesn't help that – and I got it pulled up here because I was looking at the combine results. He was dead last in every linebacker that ran the 40 with a 4.82.
00:27:38
Speaker
And that just, I don't know if it's because, you know, they don't train him to, you know, for the underwear Olympics, as we like to call them, because he doesn't look like he's a 4.82 out on the field.
00:27:54
Speaker
He looks like he's that fast, quick read, type of backer. He also weighed in a lot lighter than what I expected him to come in at. it He was only like 225 or something like that. two twenty four 224. And that one was really surprising.
Draft Strategy and Implications
00:28:10
Speaker
But you know Maybe it's a Micah Hyde type thing where he falls into the perfect spot that the Packers just say, all right, well we're going to try it. And he just yeah old blue collars it and works his way up to a role. I'm hoping the best for him because, again, when he's out on the field, he does not look like he's – I don't know what they gave him for a Raz, but it's like a 2-8-9 or something because he really tested poorly.
00:28:42
Speaker
and I'm just really hoping that it was a bad day for him, and you know maybe at the pro day or something, all his numbers will will climb back up.
00:28:54
Speaker
but And then Nick Jackson is another one. He unfortunately did not get to test at the combine. I don't know if he just wasn't invited or if he he just didn't want to do it.
00:29:05
Speaker
but he's in the similar ilk as Jay Higgins that, you know, he just seemed to be everywhere that the Packers, that the Hawkeyes needed him to be. And he's a transfer for from Virginia. And, you know, I would be, you know, obviously as the Iowa guy, I would be happy for either one of them.
00:29:25
Speaker
But I just, I really feel bad and bad for Jay just because of You know, going into the combine, he was talked about as a high draft pick, and now he's looking at maybe not even going drafted because of the numbers he put up.
00:29:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's just a bummer of this process because it's like – that's – It's really unfortunate, especially at a position like linebacker where like league is transitioning to being, you know, or however you want it has transitioned or it's transitioning still into being more like a wide open game, you know, that quote unquote basketball on grass and stuff. and and ah you know We've been talking up about how we want Green Bay to be more athletic on the second level. and I feel like most of the league you know looks at... you know Like Perron mentioned, Zach Bond made himself a lot of money playing for the Eagles. and What is he? He's an athletic freak who out of college, it was like, oh, he was an edge. Can he play inside linebacker? and It's taking him a couple teams kind of thing.
00:30:27
Speaker
But... you know He's a supreme athlete, and that's how you know he just affects the game from his position is that he's able to run all you know run around and make plays all over the place. and Yeah, it's it's so hard to tell because i don't know what scouts look for. Do they care about the times, or do they prefer what's on film? Because like you said, Joe, linebacker is one of those positions where it's like,
00:30:56
Speaker
that film speed, unless it's like you run something that's close to five seconds in the 40, I feel like the film speed is what usually holds over, but we'll just have to see. And I, you know, they've taken, the Packers have taken guys that haven't run that well at linebacker.
00:31:14
Speaker
One of them being another former, former Hawkeye and Abdul Hodge back in the day. And, I thought he had a good start to his career as a Packer, and then unfortunately both his knees exploded on him. He had knee problems coming out of college. Yeah, and know that was one of the reasons that he fell down to where we got him in the fifth or sixth round. But I remember he started for Barnett that year when Barnett, you know, he first broke his hand in the 06 season.
00:31:42
Speaker
I was like, dang, like, he actually looked like he belonged on the field with the rest of the defense there. So, therere you know, it's one of those positions where obviously athleticism is, like, touted and, you know, preferred if possible. But you got to be able to run and produce at whatever size
Reflection on Past Players
00:32:00
Speaker
you play at. So really curious to see yeah where he ends up going in the draft because he is a fun player to watch.
00:32:08
Speaker
He is, and he's probably similar in a lot of ways to Abdul Hodge. Hodge was a third rounder for the Packers, but had his knees not been shoddy, he could have been a guy that was drafted similar to Chad Greenway the same year because they were the two main guys out of the out of the Hawkeyes that season.
00:32:27
Speaker
But i think he had knee problems similar to who was the UCLA kid? Jack. Miles Jack. Where it was like, and this was, you know, early on where they didn't quite have the grasp on things. So unfortunately that the way.
00:32:45
Speaker
And, you know, who knows, maybe Jay's dealing with some kind of injury too. And that's why he tested poorly on a lot of things. But if you go through the combine, the poor guy and the other, and I wanted to look this up real quick.
00:32:58
Speaker
I think it was the three cones. He had a good three cone. Yes. I was just going to say the only thing that I can say that may help him and show that maybe he just struggled with the 40 was he had the best three cone out of all of them tested.
00:33:18
Speaker
So... have You know, usually three cone means that they have a decent amount of burst and a decent amount of agility. So maybe he just struggled with running.
00:33:29
Speaker
I watched that the the tape on him running, and he didn't look comfortable doing it. and he looked yeah Honestly, i I hate to say it but he looks like I could have outran him. And I'm 38 years old with two bad knees and a bad back, and there's no way I should be outrunning anybody. Yeah.
00:33:47
Speaker
But yeah, so it's... it's tough And like I said, it's tough because it's a position where there's no... You know, there there isn't like an edge Cooper this year where it's like someone who you're kind of like, yeah, that looks like... You know, if everything hits, he's a first-round pick value kind of thing and stuff. This...
00:34:04
Speaker
ah ah this It's a weird position to talk about because you don't have those guys that are like upper echelon, surefire first-round picks. You've got guys that are like, you know, Campbell, Schlesinger. Campbell's more the like, if he's your flavor of ice cream kind of thing, you could squint your eyes and see a first-round pick.
00:34:22
Speaker
And Schlesinger is that like... lacks a long career at the position, but is just a supreme athlete and tested like one. But it's like, are you going to bet on that ceiling when the floor is relatively low? So, you know, you don't you don't have those first round picks that you're like,
00:34:41
Speaker
Yeah, that's a you know that's a guy that you're going to use that premium pick on to get that. And as Perron mentioned, like I don't see this as being the position where Goetz is going to be the guy who's going to come in and make a day one impact that's going to elevate the the defense because they have the two guys that they want playing 90, 95 plus percent of the snaps already on roster. So it It remains to be seen, but any other guys that kind of caught your eye or... I have one that I think if I had to put a round grade on him, it would be an early round pick. But of course, like I say, like I always tell everybody, I don't do round grades because I'm always wrong on him.
00:35:26
Speaker
But it's the kid out of Oklahoma. Let me get his name here real quick. Stutzman, Danny Stutzman. Yeah, Danny Stutzman. he He was quick. He had good speed to him, good gap play, good awareness. He was a sideline-to-sideline type guy, and he and according to the Combine stats, he had it to back it up.
00:35:48
Speaker
And i i think the other thing that really popped out for for me with him was he looked like an old school type linebacker. and it's And not just in the way he played, but he also had the neck roll.
00:36:00
Speaker
And I love seeing the the return of the neck roll. And he just he really looked like that type of linebacker that if you were putting on tape from the 70s or 80s, that was the type of guy you were getting.
00:36:13
Speaker
But with an athletic freak type deal to him. And if I were to take a swing on the guy, and this is no disrespect to my Iowa guys because I would take them in a heartbeat. I'd have a full draft about nothing but Iowa but guys. But i I would probably take Stutzman in a heartbeat just because he really flashed for me on when I was watching him.
00:36:35
Speaker
Yeah, he's trying to look at at, I mean, obviously good school. I think the big knockout
00:36:42
Speaker
on him too, is that he gets lost in the wash. a little bit. he choose He's more of an absorb the contact versus deliver, but you know, so some of that stuff can, and and I don't know but and linebacker, it almost seems like, you know, there are certain things you can coach. Other things are just inherently in you. I don't know if that's something that's coachable.
00:37:04
Speaker
You know, if, if all of a sudden you become more of a thumper that could have also been a matter of what he was asked to do in his, in his, you know, in the scheme that he played in there. Yeah, those are always the... The sad thing is is I was seeing that happen way too much with the linebackers that I was watching, that they weren't like playing the line very well. They would just go in and throw their shoulder into a blocker and and try to wipe out the line. So I i think I watched 10, 11 guys, and I only made notes on half of them because I was like, all he's doing is just trying to go in and take out lineman, and he's not really making a play on anything, and he's not really...
00:37:43
Speaker
you know, doing anything other than running shoulder first into alignment. So I'm wondering if that's the new quote unquote new school way of teaching their linebackers.
00:37:55
Speaker
Cause I was seeing it constantly. I think it's sort of a function of the fact that, you know, the college game is so spread this in this era that you're either playing like four safeties or you're playing linebackers who are like in the mid-220s to the mid-low-230s kind of thing. and And it's a simple matter of like physics where it's not a two – you know, your mic isn't a 250 guy anymore, you know, in which was like the hallmark of – college and NFL play where like, you had to have that big, sturdy inside linebacker who would like direct your defense and control the run between the tackles and was almost like a extra edge defender in the way he had, you know, he stone blockers and stuff. And nowadays it's all about being able to run in coverage. And it's like, okay, you got to either sidestep that blocker. You just have to like kamikaze yourself into him to kind of just screw up the blocking timing and stuff. So I,
00:38:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard to say, but also... it because like kind of Perrone said, it's hard to say whether it's what their coach to do, but you,
Scouts and General Managers' Roles
00:38:59
Speaker
every once in a while you do see guys that maintain proper technique, keep their, the correct arm free and, you know, hedge a block the right way and stuff like that. So yeah, that's the leap to where the guys who are paid to be scouts and are paid to be general managers.
00:39:15
Speaker
Those are the ones who, you know, they know the coaches, they know the schemes, they understand what a guy can or can't learn. And, that you know That's why guys like Goot, Howie Roseman, that's why they're paid the big bucks to be the people who make these kind of decisions. Because you know we're you know the three of us, a lot of people making these pre-draft shows, we're fans. And we're trying to like do our...
00:39:40
Speaker
pre-draft scouting, you know, but relatively behind the eight ball to what these NFL team scouting departments are doing, where it's their 365 day job to, you know, just do nothing but watch college players.
00:39:53
Speaker
And we don't have all the connections. Yeah, exactly. is and all that stuff Whereas if we tried to show up to a school and talk to the coaches, we'd probably get it sorted out by security.
00:40:04
Speaker
Especially me with the gray beard. We've got to just enjoy all of his Iowa stuff and just be like, hey. yeah where i got i am a security guard.
00:40:15
Speaker
i just got to you know get in my security uniform and I'll pretend to be the security guard for first.
00:40:21
Speaker
Well, if you if we want to to have some fun with names here, there's a couple names. I don't know about players as far as like you know where they're going to get drafted or if they're going drafted too, but you have a Chris Paul that's in his draft out of Ole Miss. yeah Chris Paul Jr. Now, he ran a 4.63.
00:40:37
Speaker
he's But when I watched him, he's one of those players that when they talk about the difference between quickness and speed, he actually plays fast or plays quick.
00:40:48
Speaker
So he could end up being an okay player. I don't, I don't know where he's projected, Mike. I think he's probably another day three guy. Early day three, it's because he's like, it's one of the he's one of those guys where I'm like, he better run fast because he's only like 220.
00:41:03
Speaker
And you hear Mike Wall talk about it all the time. It's funny because I don't think Wall is necessarily a Quay Walker defender, but he's still some like old school to his mentality and stuff because, you know, he's like, I see all these people talking about put Edge Cooper at middle linebacker.
00:41:20
Speaker
You can't have a 200-
00:41:22
Speaker
Uh-oh.
00:41:23
Speaker
The freeze.
00:41:27
Speaker
And it always freezes in the bright spot. Look at that face. Beautiful. I should screen grab that.
00:41:35
Speaker
It looks like he's puckering up.
00:41:39
Speaker
If anyone ever needs some love for Mike. But, you know, another one I was going to say, and i'll I'll wait for him to come back because I don't want him to to miss this phone because I have a question for you guys.
00:41:52
Speaker
when he when he does return, and it does kind of correlate to the position, but that's the Packers are probably one of those those teams, too, where the the size of the player for a draftee.
00:42:06
Speaker
Now, if they for free agents and and guys that have been in the NFL and proven to be productive, Goody will overlook his size chart, and he'll he'll he'll break the mold and say, okay, we'll bring this player in. But when you look at the measurables, 220 for a linebacker in the Packers system, just to me is almost like a non-starter.
00:42:21
Speaker
probably The only thing that I've been saying lately or discussing lately with a lot of people is with the switch to do some of those thresholds maybe stretch a little bit?
00:42:38
Speaker
So like the normal thresholds for like an edge defender for the Packers in the past off of 3-4 was usually around 265 to 280. Well, that's a little bit heavy for 4-3 rush in.
00:42:53
Speaker
So, you know, do they consider a guy that's maybe 250, you know, around that area? So with the linebacker core, you know, they're for the longest time, like A.J. Hawk, Nick Burnett, they were like Mike, we're talking about the 250-ish guys.
00:43:10
Speaker
Now, do they maybe be bump that down with this being a 4-3 and needing a little bit more speed? And that do they bump it down a little bit and say, all right, well, maybe not 220, but we're going to go down to maybe 235-ish and grab a guy around there and see how he does.
00:43:31
Speaker
Or, you know, 230, maybe the bottom line for
Draft Criteria Adjustments
00:43:33
Speaker
them. But we've also seen in the past where if everything else fits in their mold, that they that they'll grab them. Like Jair was just like a hair under what their normal height was.
00:43:46
Speaker
But he had the arm length, he had the weight, he had the all the other aspects of his game that they looked for. So they were able to bypass a little bit of that.
00:43:58
Speaker
What's the other one? i think Quay was even a little bit underweight compared to what they normally went for for and inside linebackers. So you know But he fit everything else in their threshold mold.
00:44:13
Speaker
But I really do think that this could be the year that they – and the other reason that I say that is if you look at the guys coming out of college, there's not a lot of them that are fitting the old Packers thresholds anymore.
00:44:26
Speaker
Sure. the college guys are getting smaller and faster and stronger and stuff like that. So trying to find and somebody that fits the old school, you know, mold of what they're looking for is getting harder and harder for them to do to the point that, you know, are you going to use a first round on a guy that you would take in past years, but maybe only a third rounder now, because there's so many other guys that are that are in a different size mold than what they would consider yeah i mean asking a guy to take on a tackle or split a tackle on a guard and get to the quarterback versus having to chase down a running back on the edge or to the corner totally different size profiles and it's right set profiles and you need you know obviously if you can find a guy that's 280 and can do that that's you know
00:45:15
Speaker
run the card to the up to the podium. I mean, that's that's absolutely fantastic. But to your point, yeah, they're goingnna have to they're going to have to break mold a little bit and and and find guys that are a little bit smaller. But I think that i think that's probably an ongoing conversation. And there's there's i trust...
00:45:31
Speaker
in the scouting department and Brian Gutekunst and what he's done. I know there's been a lot of debate about how successful he's actually been. People love to, you know, some people love to talk about his misses all the time and, and they don't, they just ignore the fact that he found Jair Alexander, for example. And I don't think Jair was some consensus pick back then.
00:45:49
Speaker
You know, everybody wanted Derwin James. All the Packers fans wanted Derwin James back that back then, and and they picked Jair Alexander and he actually ended up being pretty good. If he hadn't gotten hurt, he'd probably still be a Packer for a couple more years to come. You know, you've Rashawn Gary,
00:46:00
Speaker
that panned out really well. Jordan Love is their quarterback right now. So, I mean, he's he's made some really good picks. So I trust that he is aware of the shift in the mentality of the player, the type of players that this defense needs.
00:46:13
Speaker
And if nothing else, you look and see what Edge Cooper did. And then maybe you create a a mold or kind of a process around a player like that. And obviously those guys don't grow on trees.
00:46:24
Speaker
but you create a process around that kind of profile a testing numbers or like, Hey, I saw this in edge. Let's, let's see what this other kid can do. And you bring them in, give them a chance to flourish in the defense and let Halfley work with them. And, and this, this, this year is going to be, it's going to be big for this defense because it's like the training wheels are off. It's year two.
00:46:45
Speaker
So we're not, you know, easing everybody else in. We got, you know, the players that we want. It's time to let them go cook. Just let them go cook Well, to interrupt our our sentiment here, Kiwano probably won't be back with us because I got a DM saying that they lost power, so he has no Wi-Fi right now. Oh, no All right. then, what I was going to do, Joe, what I was going to to share my screen real quickly here because I want to see if you know who... me see if I can find it here.
00:47:18
Speaker
God. You're going to ask me a question about who is this bit, and I'm going to not know anything. Yeah. Let's see. Here it is. Perfect. All right. Okay.
00:47:30
Speaker
Do you know who that is?
00:47:32
Speaker
Let me do this real quick.
00:47:36
Speaker
If I'm sharing the right screen, it should be two guys standing next to each other. Yeah. Number four and a 41. Yes. Yes. yes Is that from Penn State? Is that Kobe King?
00:47:47
Speaker
It is. And you know who Kobe King is, correct? I've i watched some of them, yeah. He is. Is that, oh, shit. The King that we just drafted last year's brother?
00:48:00
Speaker
Yes, it is Kalen King's brother. They are said to be twins. Oh, really? So I don't know where he projects as far as, as yeah, that's, that's in, you know, I, I share that just for fun because Kaylin King was a, was on the practice squad. So he's not necessarily a face that a lot of fans are going to recognize right away.
00:48:22
Speaker
But this was one that was interesting to me too, because Penn state is not a slouchy program, right? So did you know what, what do they think of the the way that he played now? The question is, would the Packers consider a brothers combination? i mean, they passed on Amonra St. Brown.
00:48:39
Speaker
Yeah. so And I don't know if it was because they had EQ, but we all know which receiver, or which brother is doing better in the league right now. So yeah you know the the question is, is are are the Packers just opposed to their being family members on the on their team?
00:48:55
Speaker
I don't think so. I just don't think it's fallen in any way for them to swoop in and do it. I do know that when Aaron Jones was still on the team, they did bring his brother in, Alvin Jr., for a workout a couple of different times.
00:49:16
Speaker
yeah okay so I don't think they're completely opposed to it. But I don't think they're just going to go out there and do it. And I'm not saying this is what you're saying. I don't think they're going to go out there and do it just to do it and say, oh, yeah, this is his brother. So we want to bring him in, brother, brother.
00:49:31
Speaker
I think it's going to do a lot of if it fits what they need. So if it if they really think this guy is going to be put them over the top, then I think they'll do it.
00:49:45
Speaker
that's like a lot of these, uh, uh, I call them legacies because they're related to somebody who played on the Packers, whatever, like Christian Watson is a legacy and, you know, uh, uh, Pete Skaronsky and, and, uh, the other kid that the chargers drafted Adderley, uh, what was his first name? That's here. Yeah. You know,
00:50:14
Speaker
that's the same thing. i You don't see them take that too often. Well, I don't think it's because they're afraid to take it. I just don't think it's fitting to what they need at that time to take it. So while I would not be opposed to it, I think it's just going to come down to, all right, well, we've already taken a linebacker in the draft. Do we you know just double down and take this guy?
00:50:41
Speaker
and you know see what he does you know take a flyer on him or whatever well he's this guy's brother do we ask him you know are they going to get along while they're here you know that kind of thing i just think that if okay well we haven't taken anybody this kid's on the board he could be a fly for a you know uh we take a flyer on him and he could be something special then i think they can go for it sure the The softer side of me says I have no problems with it. I'd love to see it because I always think it's great when, you know, they grew up together playing sports together. They, you know, they went to the same college playing sports together.
00:51:17
Speaker
It would be great to see them play it, play together and the pros at some point too. But, you know, it's just whether or not the Packers can justify it with keeping, you know, saying, all right, this is what we need at this time.
Late-Round Draft Considerations
00:51:35
Speaker
yeah I did watch Kobe, and you know I think he's a decent late rounder, but i I don't know what he measured at the combine, but just off my notes, I thought he looked stiff in coverage, and I i think he was more quick than fast, but I did say he was like a tackling machine.
00:51:56
Speaker
I do think he could probably be that Isaiah McDuffie replacement. And, you know, so like I said, if they think that they can do something with them, you know, I say go for it.
00:52:08
Speaker
Yeah. And turn back the clock a couple of years if you want to and get a McDuffie, but a little bit younger. Sure. Right. You know, if that you know there's there's a bunch of guys that are that are out there too. A couple we did mention, like Cody Simon out of Ohio State. I know Ohio State's going to garner a lot of attention. They just won a national championship. Barrett Carter out of Clemson.
00:52:26
Speaker
Just some of those guys too, I think, are going to get looks because of the kind level of competition they played against, the school that they played at. This is just, the you know, going back to the very beginning of this conversation, which is how do you think the Packers are going to attack this position group? I think if they...
00:52:40
Speaker
If they saw this as a need, this is one of the first years that I can think of where, and I guess when they drafted Quay Walker, they didn't really think inside linebacker was a huge need because they had a first-round pick there and they were going to give him time to develop.
00:52:51
Speaker
But do they, with Edge Cooper and Quay, a healthy Quay Walker to start, this is kind of the first time that this position group seems pretty in pretty good shape you know to to start off the season if they're both healthy.
00:53:04
Speaker
Quake and come out and and play well. I mean, the best case scenario, because they used a first-round pick on him four years ago now, is that he plays himself into an extension. The Packers end extending him because, obviously, you want to you want that you want to be giving a second contract out to a first-round pick. You don't want to be letting them go after their first contract ends. But, you know, they have other other things that they might need to look at and and work on this year. But I think – yeah All the signs and other discussion that we're talking to is only like more reaffirmed in my mind that I think this is a day three type of situation where the Packers will address it in in day three to fortify it.
00:53:38
Speaker
Because if they want to, they can go the safe route and probably get McDuffie and Eric Wilson to come back. on pretty good contracts, unless somebody saw a huge value in Wilson and they want to throw some money at him.
00:53:49
Speaker
And then he ends up going somewhere else. I could, I could see that happening. You know, we've got teams in our division that love to pluck our, our, our hidden gems because that's just what they do. So it's, it, this, this could be a fun one to watch. It's going to be a lot of, a lot of fun. Now, are you going to the draft?
00:54:05
Speaker
I haven't had a chance to talk to you guys. So you'll, you'll be there. We'll be there. I've already set my dates. I've sent them in I had to find a place in Nina because that was the cheapest and closest I could get.
00:54:17
Speaker
and i mean I could go stay with family if I wanted to, but it would still be like a 45-minute or so drive. so but and Like I tell people, it used to be fun when I would go stay with my grandpa and drive the hour and that back and forth.
00:54:35
Speaker
But now that I'm getting a little bit older and all that, I don't want to have that person worrying because I'm not in the house at this certain time. So it's just a lot easier to you know get someplace and whatever. But I will be there January, April 23rd.
00:54:51
Speaker
And I will be leaving the last day of the draft, so the 26th. And unless I decide to sleep in my car that night and leave the next morning or whatever. Very good. Well, I will, I guess now that I might have to save up some extra money to buy my Packers tickets at Lambeau Field, since there won't be as many fans selling their tickets, I will not be at the draft in person this year. I will i will be watching from the confines of of sunny Phoenix and hoping that the Packers have a a very, very solid draft. And I, for one, am am fine. If they trade that first rounder for whatever they do, if they have a first round pick or not, I have a feeling that they will. I don't i don't think that they'll trade a first round pick.
00:55:29
Speaker
but I know Goody said that having the draft in Green Bay has no not plays in no decision, but I think in the back of his mind, he thinks that it is it will play a little bit of a decision that he's not going to sell it cheaply.
00:55:44
Speaker
you know I'm not saying he won't sell it at all. I'm just saying I don't think he's going to sell it cheaply, knowing the kind of reaction the rabid Packer fans would have for being there all damn day and...
00:55:56
Speaker
you know doing all the stuff at in Green Bay and then not having somebody's name called. The rumor is, and I don't know if I'm the one that started this rumor or if it's actually a rumor going around, because a couple weeks ago we had Dan Kotnick on.
00:56:13
Speaker
And Dan i and I were talking about the draft, and I said, one of two things that needs to happen for the first round. You know how they always have the first rounders walk up on the stage, do the hug with Goodell and all that good stuff.
00:56:26
Speaker
One of two things need to happen. Either the draft pick needs to ride down the the snow tube, the air the Aaron snow tube, or they need to ride the bike up to the stage.
00:56:37
Speaker
Oh, hell yes. Ever since I've said that, I've had two other people tell me they've heard rumors that it's happened. So I don't know if I'm the one that started the rumor.
00:56:48
Speaker
or if there's actually rumors floating around that they will be riding bikes. Now, Jake last week did say that the new draft caps have pins and one of the pins is a bicycle.
00:57:00
Speaker
yeah Okay. I don't know if that is leading up to them actually doing it, but, and that's where I said, I think it's got to be in the back of my, in of Goody's mind that if they do the tradition with the bike ride up to the stage,
00:57:17
Speaker
and he trades that first round pick and they don't have a pick to go ride that bike up to stage, I think there'll be a riot in Green Bay. Yeah, that's that that's a really good point. i i hope that i just hope the city does a really good job of of portraying itself, and I think they will. I think Green Bay is going to do a great job.
00:57:35
Speaker
it Listen, it's it's it's not a huge, huge locale. I mean, I'll be honest with you too. Crowds are are just – it's enough to go to a marquee game in Green Bay and be there on like a – Pick like a primetime game, for example. I've been to Sunday night, Monday night football games where it's like just getting around town and just bars and restaurants and everything like that. The draft, like I probably, if it was me, if I was going, and I'm i'm not kidding, I'm not exaggerating because this is this is just me, but I'd probably just stay in Milwaukee and drive.
00:58:02
Speaker
I mean, I would just, be which I know sounds crazy because it's like, well, especially if you're to to multiple days, like, you know, you're goingnna go back and forth, but it's just like, man, between like the the cost to stay up there and you've got to have, you've got to have a hookup of some sort of family, like you said, or be willing to stay out. And I mean, Nina to me is still a huge win. i mean, that's, that's not that far. yeah So that'll be about a half hour.
00:58:24
Speaker
that'll be That'll be a lot of fun. I'll be really excited to hear your recap on on that. And i don't know if you guys are planning on doing a live show or any or any kind of shows from from the draft or anything like that. but so it's Last time we talked about it, Mike is not going to the draft and unless change things have changed.
00:58:40
Speaker
So he probably will be leading our day to like normal. I was going to say, so it's it's all it's all on you, Joe. You're you're waving the flag of OAP all by yourself. So, you know, hopefully hopefully you've got a good microphone and and you you know you get your get your good running shoes on so you can catch everybody and grab them for a couple minutes. Well, now I'm going to correct you on that.
00:59:00
Speaker
I'm not going to be the only one because our other podcaster of the Cheese Talk podcast, Brian Rego, lives in De Pere. And he's supposed to be going every day to the draft with me. So yeah oh we'll be out there repping.
00:59:13
Speaker
But All right, so I got a final couple questions before we let you go and get back to your actual life and not talking to us over here. The first one I've been asking of everybody lately, what is one guy that you've sat down and watched or you heard or whatever from the linebacker core out of the linebacker draft picks that you wouldn't touch with like a 10-foot pole?
00:59:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. if If the Packers drafted him, you'd be like, oh, God, that guy's not going to do anything. Well, I have a couple reasons. Okay, I have one. I'll give you a couple reasons why.
00:59:48
Speaker
It is, hope I say this right, Jamin Dumas Johnson out of Kentucky. Okay, yeah, the kid from Kentucky, yep. He started out of Georgia. He was a productive. he was he was productive I think he projects as a day three special teamer, and I feel like they just drafted Tyron Hopper last year.
01:00:07
Speaker
yeah So he's, red he's, he's redundant. And he had a, these things kind of resonate with me a little bit, just because I do think there's something to be said about making good decisions.
01:00:18
Speaker
He did have that reckless driving charge. I know a lot of these, and you know some of these kids have stuff. They've, you know, they've got some off field stuff that happened too, but yeah I looked at that and I thought to myself, it's like, you know, things were going in a good direction.
01:00:32
Speaker
And when things are going well for you to have the wherewithal to say, Hey, let me just keep my head on straight. Keep my head that focus, like grind, do what I need to do. So I think it's the decision-making. And then also just the fact that he's, he's just,
01:00:47
Speaker
redundant to me would just, it it would, it would really be unless, unless Brian Goodican said, I know he wants more draft picks. He said he wanted more draft picks unless he has 15 picks and he uses one of 15 picks on this kid.
01:00:59
Speaker
Like, okay, then you could, then you could have me there a little bit too. But, and you know, he, he transferred to Kentucky. He was at Georgia. Like just, there's just some things there where I'm just like, you know what? We're, I think, I think the Packers can do better.
01:01:12
Speaker
There's something about that Georgia team that they have all kinds of trouble with when it comes to cars and shit like that. oh So the one guy that I'm going to mention as a guy that I would avoid is probably going to draw me a lot of heat, especially from the the DM group that I have over on Twitter with Brian Moffey and all them, is the kid from Notre Dame, Jack Kaiser. Yeah.
01:01:38
Speaker
I was not impressed with him. And I know like the combine, the NFL page and all that have them as like a higher, uh, uh, ranked prospect, but I really, he was a little light compared. And like we were talking about earlier, do the Packers change their thresholds on them or whatever.
01:01:56
Speaker
i said, his speed looked okay. He was probably more quick than fast. His strength didn't look great. I had,
01:02:05
Speaker
I had concerns about his vision, and this is why. There were a couple of games where I watched him. He was in middle linebacker position.
01:02:17
Speaker
He had the A-gap wide open. The defensive tackle had center, and the end had guard. So the hole was wide open. If he would have just made a straight shot through the hole, he probably would have hit the the ball carrier.
01:02:35
Speaker
But instead of going straight through the hole, he ran right in the back of his D tackle.
01:02:40
Speaker
And that happened on multiple occasions. and it's like, are you not seeing this gap? And, you know, if I'm the D tackle and I'm feeling my linebacker run right into the my back on multiple occasions, me and that linebacker are going to have conversations.
01:02:55
Speaker
Yeah. Well, do do you think... Quay Walker made that mistake, too. There were a couple times where it just seemed like... And and it's easy to assess things on film, the way they look. But it just seemed like there were there were times where he could either...
01:03:09
Speaker
Like if no one else was on the field, it's like run into this person. You have one job, like run into each other and somehow you would find a way to miss. Like, and yeah I, you know, I, I don't, again, not a doctor. I don't know if it's a vision thing. I don't know if it's a mental, like overthinking it thing, but it's almost like they have a guy like that and Quay Walker. And I don't know that you want to necessarily add a second, but I don't know what your take is on Quay and why he sometimes opted not to make the play that seemed to be right in front of him.
01:03:38
Speaker
I think it's guessing. Fair. I think it's guessing more than anything. And that's something Quano and I have talked a lot about with Quay is Instead of read and react, he's guessing at what's going to happen next.
01:03:54
Speaker
So I don't know if that's the whole part of having the green dot and knowing, you know, everybody's assignment. and Okay. Well, if this guy is going to go over here and this is going to happen and this guy needs to be here.
01:04:05
Speaker
I don't know if he's overanalyzing things because of that green dot. If you maybe take that green dot off of him and see him just focus on his one area Maybe that'll help him out a little bit, but I really think a lot of it, and there were a couple of guys that I watched that I said the same thing. They're just guessing at what they need to do.
01:04:23
Speaker
Instead of read and react, they're guessing, and most of the time they're missing on their guess. So I'm going to say it's more guessing than anything, and that could be what's going on with Kaiser, too, is just guessing, but it just was really weird to me that everything's blocked off.
01:04:40
Speaker
You have a wide-open gap, but instead of going through that wide-open gap, you're running into your ass end of your D tackle. And it just, I was confused about And usually when that happened, either the running back was running right by him, the quarterback was completing the pass, whatever it was. And it just, it was like, okay, well, I really, you know, like you said, Quay kind of,
01:05:05
Speaker
stumbles with that occasionally. We don't need something else like that. We need a guy who's going to read and react and not just guess at what he's doing out on the field. Right. so Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would, I, I could see that happening. The other thing too, is like the game happens fast. So it's like, you know, yeah, that gap looks like it's open, but it could have just been something where that was a screen grab. And all of a sudden it was like, you know, maybe his assignment was a little bit more of like a two gap type thing.
01:05:30
Speaker
But yeah, it's, you know, those those those kind of things. The production on film and your actual ability to do the thing, you know, then that's what the com the combine is supposed to, I think, as as Peter Bukowski said, is supposed to confirm what the what the tape already shows you.
01:05:44
Speaker
in game action. So I think with that game action, you watch some of these tendencies. And if that's something that happens over and over again, you can't ignore it. You really, you really can't, you can't ignore it. That's why, that's why I was hoping for a bigger sample size with Quay last year is to see what's he really going to be in this new defense.
01:05:59
Speaker
And the other thing is too, if they do end up taking the green dot away, does that deflate his ego at all? I don't know what, where what kind of ego we're talking about there. i know that, Jair worked with him a little bit on his his mental aptitude, and he definitely stayed more out of trouble. He wasn't in in the middle of all these fracases last year, and so at least he fixed that within himself. But that's the other thing, too, is mentally does he feel like he's being demoted in a way if he has that green dot taken away? Maybe not.
01:06:23
Speaker
I don't know. We'll see. and It could possibly also be a relief to him because if you remember right, he didn't have the green dot when he was drafted anyway. It was going to be Devondre Campbell.
01:06:33
Speaker
he was forced to have the green dot because Campbell would get, got injured for his extended. And so somebody had to take it over. So they gave it to Quay. So now could that just be a if they, you know, I know a lot of these guys where if they're forced to do something, but they don't want to do it, they won't speak up and say, Hey, I would rather not do that.
01:06:53
Speaker
They just live with it and go with the consequences. Could Quay be doing something like that, where he doesn't want to feel like he's rocking the boat and saying, Hey, I don't want to, deal with the green dot? Can you give it to Jair?
01:07:04
Speaker
jayire can you give it to McKinney can you give it to McDuffie can you give it to one of these guys so maybe by taking it away it would be a relief off his shoulders and he can go out and play a little bit more but like we've been saying we don't know what's going on through his head we don't know what's going on at practices we don't know what's going on with that so it could be a deflate but it could also be a boost because they're saying all right we want you to be comfortable with this so you go out and do what you need to do we will give this to somebody else true Yeah, very true.
Quay Walker's Leadership Responsibilities
01:07:34
Speaker
all right. great
01:07:35
Speaker
My last question for you, and hopefully this won't be a take up too much more time because, like I said, we want to get you out of here and get you going with what you got to do.
01:07:56
Speaker
Thursday,
01:08:00
Speaker
April 24th, 2025 Green Bay, Wisconsin. 23rd pick is on the board.
01:08:07
Speaker
They going through the war room. They have scouts talking everything. They have beauty talking with Matt LaFleur, talking with Jeff Halfley. You know, this is Mark Murphy's last year there. They're talking to Mark Murphy.
01:08:20
Speaker
Hey, we don't know what we've got a handful of guys that we can take. We don't know what we want to do. of the scouts pe from the West Coast speaks up and says, hey, I got a guy. Your phone rings saying, Jason Perrone, what do you think we're going to do at number 23?
01:08:36
Speaker
What would be your – and it could be anything. It could be just a position. It could be you know if you've got a specific player in mind, you know whatever. What are they doing on at number 23?
Speculation on 23rd Draft Pick
01:08:50
Speaker
It's going to be – I think it's going to be a defensive lineman. You think so? yeah think it'll be defensive line, yeah, because I think they will have already addressed – corner in the, in free agency in some way, shape or form receiver. They don't need to, unless there's somebody there that they're absolutely in love with. I just, it just, it, it's, it's, it screams big guy up front.
01:09:14
Speaker
I think it's going to be a defense. I think it'll be a defensive lineman and probably one that's, that can, that can get after the quarterback. little bit too but i think they go i think i think they go with a big guy upfront i mean they got pushed around too much last year but both sides on the the offensive line and and i know im the the eagles are just really good upfront but if that's what the packers have to compete with i mean ah ah you you kind of have to build your yourself to beat the you know the the best of the best and beat the best opponent they have to get They have to get bigger. And i think i don't think offensive line is as big of a need like that. They just took Jordan Morgan last year. So I think they'll go.
01:09:50
Speaker
I don't have a specific guy in mind because we don't know if they're going to stay there or not. But I i would say it's going to be a defensive lineman in some way, shape, or form. That's interesting. i've been keeping track and Like I said, I've been asking everybody every week and keeping track of this stuff.
01:10:03
Speaker
And my one thing that I've said that I would find the greatest thing in the world It's been 23 years since the Packers took a wide receiver in the first round.
01:10:15
Speaker
The draft is in Green Bay. The rumors are they're doing the bicycles. The greatest thing that would ever happen would be if the Packers went wide receiver in the first round.
01:10:28
Speaker
That guy would be the instant king of Green Bay. yes They talk about a j Dillon being the mayor of Door County and all that good stuff. This guy would instantly...
01:10:39
Speaker
become the king of Green Bay. It wouldn't matter if he drops 100% of his passes his first season. Because it's been so long since they took him, because of the tradition that they're possibly going to be doing with the bike riding, because of it being in Green Bay and all that good stuff, I think it would be the greatest thing in the world for them to do.
01:11:00
Speaker
And the thing about it is even though it's not as big as need, the Packers always tend to look ahead and plan ahead before it actually becomes a need on a lot of things.
01:11:12
Speaker
And with Romeo and Watson's contracts up, and you know the question marks behind those, you know there is a possibility, and there will be some guys sitting there at 23.
Humorous Draft Speculations
01:11:22
Speaker
So my the thing that I would find the funniest in the world is if they went with wide receiver in the first round.
01:11:31
Speaker
it would It would be, you know, Goody says that the drafting in Green Bay doesn't play a factor, but it would be hard to knock that theory down if that's the direction that they ended up going. That would be huge.
01:11:42
Speaker
Well, yeah, they'd give him the king the key to the whole city. I mean, that would just be amazing. All right, Jason, let's get you out of here. why don't you tell the folks where they can find you and what you're up to these days?
Engagement and Feedback Invitation
01:11:54
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I'm over on the Pack-A-Day podcast, the Thursday edition with Mark Eccles. So thanks everybody who listens to that already. Get over there and check us out. And of course, all the other days of the week too, our teams do a fantastic job.
01:12:06
Speaker
And I am on both X, I'm at Jason Perrone, and I'm also on Blue Sky Social. You can find me on either platform. So hit me up over there and let me know what you guys have going on and what's what's what's going on. The DMs are open. I'm always open to making new friends and meeting new people. And We did start, like I said, we we did start talking a little bit of weather. So if you want some weather around the world, you might want to check in, check in with the Thursday Pack-a-Day podcast to hear what's happening on the other side of the globe.
01:12:31
Speaker
But it's great to be back on, Joe. Thank you. and And to Mike, who's not here in spirit, I thank him and you guys very much for having me back on. I look forward to it every year. Well, and we'll try to, we try to work in some guys during the off season too. So we'll try to get you back on. And of course, like I said earlier, Mike is not going to the draft. So the plan is right now to have our, our day to live stream again with him running things.
01:12:56
Speaker
And maybe I can pop on what being, you know, in the crowd and all that good stuff. So we'll see what happens there, but, uh, you can find us. I'm strictly on blue sky right now. You can still see me over at the Twitter or X or Elon machine or whatever you want to call it.
01:13:13
Speaker
Uh, that's Iowa underscore Joe eight six. I'm not really active over there, but if you need to DM me for anything, you can hit me up on there. We do have a, uh, one for the show over there. It's at Ohana Packers.
01:13:26
Speaker
Uh, There is no blue sky for that one yet. My blue sky is Iowa Joe and Mike. I think on both of his is Kwano Mike on both Twitter and blue sky.
01:13:39
Speaker
you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and all those good things at Ohana Packers edition. Make sure you like them like and subscribe wherever you get your your favorite podcast. you know Drop us some reviews. Let us know how we're doing, what you want to hear.
01:13:57
Speaker
guests you want us to have on, you know, if you want Jason Perrone back, I keep wanting call you Perrone. It looks so Italian that I just want to say Perrone. You know, whoever, depending on who you ask in my family, you're you're right either way.
01:14:11
Speaker
Oh, really? Yes. But, a you know, if you want Jason to come back, hell, if you want Jason to replace Mike, you know, make sure you put that in the comments or something.
01:14:22
Speaker
You know, we're always looking for for new guys on the show. But, yeah, make sure you like, subscribe, follow, and drop us some reviews. If you want to get a hold of us, DM us or send an email to outbackpackers1919 gmail.com.
Uncertainty and Playful Banter
01:14:38
Speaker
Next week, I have no clue what we're doing. I don't even remember off the top of my head, but we're going to continue our pre-draft, and I'm not sure who we got coming on Man, you can tell my Alzheimer's is kicking in highly because I'm having a hard time. everything Everything's running together.
01:14:54
Speaker
But as Mike would say, go back, go, and aloha.