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OPE Season 3 Episode 43 Open Wide
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Aloha and welcome to week 3 of our draft prep episodes! This week Mizzou U and Packers writer Joey Van Zummeren joins to discuss current state of the Green Bay Packers Wide Receiver Group, if any free agents could fit in and what Prospects for the draft we like!
Find us wherever you get your favorite pods, like and subscribe and rate us! Also, visit ohanapackers.org for our latest articles, past episodes and our merch shop!
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:21
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello and welcome to another episode of the Ohana Packers edition podcast. I am Iowa Joe Quano is doing Quano things somewhere I really don't know what last week. It was birthdays this week. I don't know what it is but in good oak tradition, I did bring in another guest a good friend and Uh, little little brother in a way, Joey van Zumran to come in and talk wide receivers with me. So Joey, I know we were doing a little bit of talk beforehand, but what's going on with you, bro? Right. Well, enjoying time here at the university of Missouri school of journalism, uh, Packers fans will appreciate this and sports fans in general. John Anderson is now working at the Mizzou Jay school. And just a few weeks ago, I saw him walking through the journalism school. and at first I was like, what?
00:01:11
Speaker
in the world is John Anderson doing here. And then I, it occurred to me. So yeah, it's, it's been going good here. getting excited for the draft now. Hey, I'm not getting paid by him yet. I don't have any classes with him yet, but obviously I'm, I gotta, uh, plug the institution. yeah, getting excited for the drafts and everything in that sells that come in this off season here. Oh, that's great. That's great. You know, I'd,
00:01:37
Speaker
I know I've told you this before, but that was one of the things that I tried to go to school for. It just didn't work out in my favor of it. So I'm really hoping you get to do what, you know, what we kind of all wanted to do. And that's cover of the team that we're, we're fans of and stuff like that. But that's great that you're getting to, you know, Mizzou is not a small school by no means. So, I mean, you're getting good. You're getting good experience go through there. So, you know, it's great seeing you.
00:02:03
Speaker
get the, get that experience. So if you get to take that next step and, you know, become a writer of, of a a professional team, then it's not so much of a, uh, uh, you're not so starstruck with things that you're, you've got that feel to it already.
Journey into Journalism
00:02:22
Speaker
I appreciate that. Yeah. And I think it has been obviously a pleasure to really get all these experiences early on. And it's really made me like,
00:02:31
Speaker
that I have a bunch of people come and asking me advice. but When I think of like what like what is the most helpful thing to do in that, it it's just to to do the job, if that makes sense. And obviously, you're not if you're just some random person, you can't go to a basketball press conference for SEC school, but to do the writing, to do what you want to do. then eventually, hopefully, that leads to more opportunities. But yeah, it's been great, and I appreciate those words.
00:03:02
Speaker
Do you get a lot of like podcasters saying, hey, can you give me any kind of insight on this, this, or this? Or has that not happened quite yet? Podcasters not really. I did have somebody. I went into my meteorology class my last ned last year or last semester, sat down, and this kid next to me, a freshman, asked me, like are you Joey Van Zimmerman? Do you cover the Packers? That's like, why but it does he know me? But he yeah he's a freshman journalism student. And that was the most famous I've ever felt. Podcasting, not as much. Writing, I've leaned more towards so. But yeah, it's, yeah, I will podcast was gonna reach out to advice. Like I said, it's been a while since I put a mic and headset on since the retirement of the underage packs podcast.
00:03:55
Speaker
Well, I just know that like for the Hawkeyes, there's like a hundred different podcasts that just cover the Hawkeyes. So I was wondering if maybe somebody got ahold of you and said, Hey, can you get me, you know, what, what can you tell me about insert name here? And can you give me any insights? Oh, on a murder i okay. Like that. Yeah. I have had people like asked me for like how they, if they, if I can get them free Mizzou tickets and absolutely not. And most times, yeah, I,
00:04:24
Speaker
I'm working on building that role deck, so I don't usually have inside sources on players. The most I can offer sometimes is interactions I've had with them just from being peers with them and going from the same school as them.
Navigating Player Interactions
00:04:37
Speaker
Yeah, that's got to be that's got to be interesting, though. Now, obviously, since you are with Mizzou, I don't follow it as much because you know I'm a Hawkeye. Right. Except in the music city culture.
00:04:49
Speaker
yeah Well, yeah, yeah come on we we don't even want to talk about how the Hawkeyes have been doing in a lot of ways. You know, that punning game is still on point. i be Right. Yeah, absolutely. And their kick returner as well. Yeah. But do you get to have a lot of interaction with the players when it comes to writing your, your stories and that?
00:05:14
Speaker
It depends on the sport who's in charge of the communications. It's ah the definitely an adjustment this past year when I when i covered Packers training camp to go to that where it's open locker room after practice every day. Pretty much any player on the team you want to talk to, you can go up and have a conversation with them compared to college where they're obviously a lot more watch.
00:05:41
Speaker
aware and not wanting to throw all those players out there, they kind of have three or four, three or five players that they usually stick to for interviews. And then it just kind of a situation to a situation basis where you can get them for an exclusive interview.
Packers' Wide Receiver Challenges
00:05:57
Speaker
you do definitely get, even if it's not an interview, you do definitely get, especially with football,
00:06:04
Speaker
not an inside look per se, but you are around the the team more obviously, just from walking the same spaces as them and overhearing those conversations. That's cool. I mean, that really is great. Like I said, I'm happy for how you're getting to do things like that. You know, it's great to see you being able to cover a lot of those things, and but you know, that That's still got to be intimidating and a little bit. you know the You're talking to these guys that you watch on every Saturday or Sunday. and Yeah, it definitely is at first. And i glad I feel like I was able to get over that but curve early. And I'm not saying that to paddle my back, but I think I just threw myself into those fires early. And that has really benefited me as well. But yeah, it's a little bit.
00:06:55
Speaker
You're a little bit nervous at first, but I definitely think I even saw again with covering a pack training camp and then I covered Packers at Tennessee this past year. Once you get over that, it wasn't an adjustment for me, like going from college to NFL players talking to it, you know, kind of of the same skill set and the same mindset.
00:07:16
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, building memories on that man. So, but I think people are tired of hearing me ask you questions on, you know, not being able to live my dream. So let's go ahead and get into, get into this week's position group. We are talking wide receivers this week. Uh, obviously that is somewhat of a need. The Packers are going to have with contracts coming up at the end of the season injuries, the lack of production that happened when, you know, this receiver, that receiver went down. So.
00:07:46
Speaker
You know, it, it is something that I do think Gudakunst is going to be looking at, whether it be a free agency ad draft ad, you know, maybe a trade, who knows. But let's start with the first topic and we'll go with what is your opinion on the status of the Packers room, wide receiver room right now?
00:08:11
Speaker
Well, it's a lot different than it was ahead of the start of the season where I was fully on board and almost drinking the Kool-Aid of what this coaching staff and the wide receivers themselves were telling us of being such a ah ah deep group that had so many young selfless guys. I'm not saying they're not younger or selfless, but the depth, I mean, can be called in question just because of what you mentioned of the lack of certainty in how specifically Dontavian Wicks and Jayden Reed are developing. Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs both coming up on contract years. Christian Watson, still really at this point in his career, I mean, I'm not gonna, I think he's a really talented player. I think he can be really important to this Packers offense, but still at this point somewhat of a mystery, I would say, in his career. And obviously going into the contract year for him, Green Bay kinda uncertain on exactly
00:09:06
Speaker
what his market value would be. but again, I, I think he can be a really important part of the offense and overall take on it is, I would agree with you that they need to add it there. I think I agree with Josh Jacobs too of neat meeting. I hate all the terminology around it because there's negative connotations to all of them. I think, especially with Packers, uh, relationship with wide receiver position over the past decade, but alpha wide receiver one whatever you call it there is a need for that that reliable guy and again I think there's negative connotations whoever you want to put it and it doesn't have to be a guy that Jordan love forces the ball to all the time and it doesn't have to be Justin Jefferson it doesn't have to be a top five guy but
00:09:52
Speaker
a reliable option because reliability certainly is not a trait in this wide receiver room whether that would be with injuries or with drops. So I would agree with you that they need to add at the top but then also throughout could you use some more options just because of the uncertainty of everybody in that room pretty much.
Free Agency and Trade Considerations
00:10:13
Speaker
Well and Goodacris kind of follows the Ted Thompson belief that it's you know prepare for the future.
00:10:21
Speaker
So we've seen them in the past where, you know, we may have a complete depth on one position, but he still grabs this guy or that guy or whatever, just in case something happens. But, and, you know, to kind of go on the Josh Jacobs thing. I know a lot of people were kind of taking all that comment out of context that, you know, that they were trying to make a bigger deal out of it than it was, but.
00:10:44
Speaker
They didn't look at the first part of the quote when he said, you know, hey, we got a great group of guys. We got all this. We just need that one extra guy to put us over the top on things. And so it. It's true, you know. Like you said. Romeo, Christian.
00:11:06
Speaker
Jayden and Dontavian, they really haven't taken that leap to further themselves as a top dog in it. You know, maybe Romeo a little bit more because he seems to be Jordan's safety valve when it, when things start to break down. So we saw that happen when Romeo got hurt or, and when he got his quote unquote suspension that, you know, there wasn't really that consistency there because Jordan didn't have his go to guy with things. But then on the opposite end, we didn't see a lot of,
00:11:41
Speaker
you know, plays being made when christian after Christian got hurt. So it is one of the it's it's really weird. I agree with you going into next season, the 2026 season, you know, I don't see Christian Watson being able to say, hey, pay me top wide receiver money.
00:12:04
Speaker
But we have seen some really ridiculous wide receiver contracts, you know, like the Christian Kirk, one in Jacksonville, just to name one off the top of my head, where not a top guy ended up getting like top ah ah guy money. And so I, you know, does that happen with Christian? Does that happen with Romeo? Because while Romeo may not have the full athletic ability that Christian Watson has,
00:12:32
Speaker
Romeo is and and I hate comparisons, but you know they they come with the territory Romeo is more of your devante where he's going to make plays based off of his agility more than his speed and So there is a need for that in I mean how they're talking about wanting to trade for devante back Well, you know you've got devante light in Romeo. You just need to get another guy around him to you know take the pressure off of him, not saying that, you know, Romeo is ever going to be this, you know, superstar number one receiver, but he's still going to be a good compliment to whatever else you can get out of him. I love Romeo. I loved him from the, before the draft, he was one of my top guys within the draft came that year and I really was happy. But just to round out things with the wide receiver group, returning on the roster for this next year, her right now,
00:13:31
Speaker
Of course you got Romeo Dobbs, Christian Watson, Jayden Reed, Dontavian Wicks, but you've got Malik Heath, who I really like. I think he could be something if he was given a little bit more of a chance, but because of the stacked depth right now, it's really hard for him. Bo Melton. Bo is one of those that I could take him or I could leave him. You know, I'm not going to be heartbroken if they got rid of him.
00:13:56
Speaker
But I'm appreciative of what he can do because he like Christian has athletic traits then you've got Julian Hicks and Tulu Griffin who were given What they call them futures contracts future yes, yeah, so Right now that's what they have at and corn Cornelius Johnson. I almost forgot about them. I could be mad about that one Cornelius Johnson out of Michigan, who I think Mike said really was more of a special teams guy than.
00:14:31
Speaker
than an actual, but I could be wrong. I, I, when he says something about Michigan, I tend to tune out. So, but you know, right now that that's what they're looking at. is It's basically the same thing that we were seeing coming into the 2024 season. So there's no real big changes there. They, well, outside of the, the three futures contracts, you know, the rest of them should be back.
00:15:00
Speaker
for 2025, barring, you know, a major acquisition, which leads us to the next portion of the breakdown is free agency. Joey, there are a lot of free agents going to be coming out this year, but a lot of them aren't very appetizing and it's kind of weird using appetizing for people, but you know, Hey, it is what it is.
00:15:27
Speaker
Who do you think would be a, I know T Higgins is the big name out there, but I think that's because he's the only one that he's young. He's got, uh, you know, the athletic traits to him, but outside of T Higgins, or you can even talk about T Higgins if you want, you know, is there anybody in the free agency pool right now? Cause obviously we're before any cuts have happened. yeah. What do you think?
00:15:54
Speaker
Yeah, not really. I'm even not sold on the idea of T Higgins, to be honest with you. I mean, I'm just scrolling through a list right now outside of him that like to your point, there is.
00:16:07
Speaker
very little options. I mean, I think they're going to add somebody in this kind of middle of the pack as far as free agent wide receivers go. But also like you've hit on a few times, the wide receiver market is difficult to predict and exactly what those contracts are looking like. I think we have to talk about Devante Adams. i yeah so I don't think it's going to happen. And because I just don't know why he would want to.
00:16:37
Speaker
Obviously, Green Bay is a team that went 11 and six last year, played a close game against the Super Bowl champions. Like they're a good team. I'm not saying that there that's that's a reason he you wouldn't want to play for them. But he It would make sense if Aaron Rodgers was still playing here and he'd want to run it back with his old friend and that's why he went to New York. obviously it seems like playing on the west coast, coast of Philharmonie is still a big deal for Devontae. And so we'll see. I mean, he's obviously had experience with, but yeah, I can't see it. I don't know what the market looks for like for him.
00:17:18
Speaker
But yeah, outside of T Higgins, outside of maybe Devontae, I mean, I'd be happy if Devontae comes back, don't get me wrong there. But i I don't know, it's hard to say there, but I, again, I think they're gonna make a Dev and Funches-esque signing that would hopefully turn out more than Dev and Funches did. On the Devontae thing, I think the only way it happens is if the Jets cut him. I don't think the Packers will trade for him unless it's like a,
00:17:46
Speaker
you know, a middling draft pick or whatever, you know, I don't think they'll end up trading for him just based on contract and all that stuff.
Legacy and Returning Players
00:17:55
Speaker
But if for some reason the jets were to release him and the Packers could sign him back for a media, you know, a smallish contract, I do think he wouldn't mind coming back. I know he says he's, he loves the floor, you know, and he loved love. It was just, you know, it was tight.
00:18:13
Speaker
He felt kind of disrespected. And if you believe everything, he felt kind of disrespected in contract thoughts. But he didn't have issues with the Packers. He didn't have issues with the coaching. He didn't have issues with playing with Jordan Love. And I think at this point, we're looking at, what is he? He'll be 31 this year? I thought older. Let's see. I don't know. It's so weird. Everybody's younger. He's 32, 33 in December.
00:18:42
Speaker
Okay. So, you know, he is coming down on the bottom, the bottom part of his career. I mean, he could play for a while longer, depending on how his body holds up, but theoretically based on what we've seen with other players at that position, you know, we are looking at the last few years of his career. So, you know, maybe for a final chance to make a run at a ring, which, you know, the Packers barring, you know, injuries and if they make some decent pickups and all that, have a shot at it. But I kind of agree with you that it actually I'm kind of 50 50 on it. Like I said, I will be more 75 25 if he's cut, but I don't think a trade will happen.
00:19:26
Speaker
Right, and I'll say too, I guess I would add in another, another poll for him to return to Green Bay is a little bit of what you were hitting on there. of There is like the legacy factor and I think going back to Green Bay would be a somewhat safer move in terms of that because I don't know how he is thinks about the last few years of his career, but I imagine at least the way I saw it when he was traded from Green Bay to Las Vegas was a move of I think as a lot of players probably don't admit it during their careers, but wanting to put together his Hall of Fame resume and obviously the main reason he left Green Bay is, I mean, like you said, possibly the the contract negotiations there, but then also not knowing what the quarterback situation was going to look like and avoiding that instability by going to play with his friend in a a big market. And obviously that all fashion failed.
00:20:22
Speaker
Yes. And then after he did that, he went to, again, play with his friend in a big market, which went even worse. So I think, I mean, the Packers hardly bring back old players, I feel, besides Tramon Williams in the NFC Championship game. And then he didn't take a snap. He got rid of Kyle, but that was ah a Rogers request. James Jones. You had James Jones. Yeah. Iman Green came back for a season or two.
00:20:52
Speaker
Uh, after the Texans. So, I mean, they do bring them back, but it's not like you want to, you know, Jay Valder in there.
00:21:02
Speaker
yeah But I mean, they do bring them back. it It's just more of a, uh, all right. We need a depth piece to help our young group in there, which kind of feels what Devontae would be at this point for the Packers.
00:21:20
Speaker
It is a depth piece that will help our younger wide receivers you know grow, which was like the James Jones one, which was like the Ammon Green one, where they needed help because injuries were plaguing them.
Veteran vs. Young Receivers
00:21:36
Speaker
But we're going to bring back a veteran that knows the system that can help our young guys get pushed further in. Yeah, and the experience with Lure, I mean, I forget.
00:21:49
Speaker
that he, well, his last four years with Green Bay were with LaFleur, so it's not like they're they strangers at all. Yeah, LaFleur signed in what, 19? Yeah. And then he was traded in 22, so yeah, about three, four years. Yeah. think it was 22, I could be wrong.
00:22:13
Speaker
You know, I keep forgetting that this year is 2025 already. So you my math could be all wrong on it. I do want to bring up one that I think would be an interesting kind of, uh, veteran piece. And I, I didn't even realize he was a free agent. I thought the Buffalo bills had him for a little bit longer. And that's a Mari Cooper. He's not like a big time. I mean, he's got the name value to him.
00:22:37
Speaker
He did have a pretty productive career, but I think that would be a solid pickup, just as, like I said, and a veteran type presence for our younger guys who has experience as a, you know, number one receiver, because that's what he was viewed in Dallas. That was what he was viewed in as, or viewed as in, with Raiders. Yeah. Yeah. The Oakland, right? I was going to say, Las Vegas, the Raiders.
00:23:06
Speaker
of But, I think he could, and and he's still producing. I mean, he wasn't getting yeah much played with the bills, but you know, they were pretty stacked as is. So I think he would be a solid fit if they were to go that route.
00:23:22
Speaker
Yeah, and I think the biggest thing is a veteran. And I think over the past two seasons, Green Bay, the whole mindset is obviously been we're going young, young, young.
Draft Prospects Exploration
00:23:32
Speaker
And obviously there's the benefits of that as far as contracts, as far as having kind of being able to shape the clay into the form you want it to as your coaching staff. But also we've we've seen this past season, and um i i I think my lead for my story that I wrote after the Packers loss to Philadelphia was this was again another example as the whole entire season has been that the Packers are too young and undisciplined to win anything. And so I think veteran, I mean, obviously as far as leadership and
00:24:08
Speaker
Just reliability, again, is is the biggest thing to add at the Swider receiver position. Look at you name dropping your articles on this. But really, you know, I heard the little buzzwords about like Marques Valdez-Gantling. It's like, no, he's not the type that Or, you know, another young guy would, or two young guys would be like, Diami Brown, uh, from Washington. And then Elijah Moore, who was with, uh, Cleveland. But I think they're to the point where they're just going to be role players than anything big. I mean, they're still young enough that anything could happen, but I think for the most part, get you have kind of do what they did with safety, but not maybe as.
00:24:57
Speaker
far into safety as they did, you know, don't yeah have to go out and sign that top name guy, but sign a veteran and then draft a couple of guys, right which leads us to our why we're here now. ah ah See, I'm getting good at the segues. Maybe I don't want to have, but I'm going to open this up to you because I know there's two guys coming out of your school that at least one of them is going to be talked about as a potential first rounder.
00:25:26
Speaker
I did happen to look at the one I couldn't really find much on the other guy. So I'm hoping to hear a little bit about him from you, but go ahead and talk about your guys. Yeah. So the first one being Luther burden, the third expected first round draft picked has been since his freshman year of high school, basically, out of East St. Louis high school.
00:25:50
Speaker
absolutely changed everything at the University of Missouri's football program, but as he as a prospect, it's been interesting the past two years to track his draft projection because after his sophomore year, 2023, projected as a top 10 pick. And then this past season,
00:26:11
Speaker
production goes down on paper in the box score. Taratoa McMillan has a great year with Arizona. So now it's looking like Luther will be in that Packers range of the twenties. I still think I still can't have really read it because I can't tell how much NFL teams are actually going to place on.
00:26:32
Speaker
production at its face value because actual skill wise, Luther Burden took no steps down at all in this past season. So I would definitely caution against if you're just looking at pure stats, Luther Burden did nothing different in 2024 than he did in 2023. A lot of circumstances around him, quarterback play was not nearly as good in 2024. There were some injuries at quarterback. Offense as a whole kind of seemed to change their approach from 2023 to 2024.
00:27:01
Speaker
There was a few games where Luther didn't get a single target until late in the second quarter. And again, not to his fault at all. To who he is as a player, very shifty guy. I know a lot of people like to compare him to Debo, which I think makes sense. He's a ah ah smaller guy than him, not as slick as a body, for sure. but He's not necessarily a a burner with his speed. He's not going to beat you on a ah ah go route most of the time. His main skill is taking those shallow, medium routes. And then after that, when he is
00:27:38
Speaker
I mean, I was gonna say one on one with a defender in space, but it's really, a he can be one against all defenders off the line, and he will find a way to make space for himself after the catch. As far as his fit with the Packers, it would be really interesting. I'd be really excited for it. I don't think he's really gonna be the guy.
00:27:57
Speaker
the Packers are looking for if they go in round one. think if they're looking at the the top 100 for a wide receiver, I think it is going to be someone in that Christian Watson mold. And Luther Burton isn't necessarily that, but he would absolutely be an incredible playmaker. That would be really fun to watch in Matt Lefleur's offense with his creativity. The other one, you have something to add on Luther?
00:28:25
Speaker
Well, I was just going to ask, I mean, I agree with most of what you say with it. Uh, I did say that, you know, his, his routes were good, but he could get sloppy in them. So he's got a tight nose on yeah ah just a a little bit. Uh, my main concern right now is you out of anybody who's that we'll probably talk to knows just as well as anybody else who covers the draft schools tend to overestimate like measurements.
00:28:54
Speaker
Now the site that I look for for my draft, ah ah for my, my, I don't look at it for what they put as rankings. They have them listed as number two for their rankings out of wide receivers, but they have them listed as five 11. Is he five 11 or is he a little bit smaller than that? I would say probably a little bit smaller. Um, Um, but I, I couldn't tell you for sure.
00:29:22
Speaker
because that right there is the thing that worries me the most. I mean, people are going to come at me and say like, well, tank Dell, tank Dell. Yeah. And the last few seasons, tank Dell has ended up injured or whatever. Not saying burden is like that because burden at least has the bulk to them. Cause this has them listed as two away, which is pretty good for his size. Uh, but it's just, I see him as being used in the Packers offense similar to what Jaden Reed does. yeah what's says So does that mean the Packers are going to draft another Jaden Reed? You know, I think Burton is going to be a little bit better than Reed. I think he's got a lot more polish to him. And, you know, I thought he had similar, uh, uh,
00:30:10
Speaker
fight to him. I mean, these are the notes that I made on him. I said he was tough because he was always, you know, it seemed like he was trying to break tackles and he was fighting for everything. I said he was quick and he was fast. Now again, this website has them listed as, uh, I don't know if this is a predicted 40 or where they got this number, but these listed under 40, it says 4.41, which would be a hell of a speed for him.
00:30:34
Speaker
because I mean, you know, the fastest quote receivers are running four to nine, four threes and stuff like that. So for him to just be barely out of that, you know, puts him as a good speed. Uh, again, I, I said he had, he's got good fight to him. He's got good routes, but he can get sloppy with them. So he's got to fight the one knock on him. I had, and it's not just him. I had it on a couple other wide receivers.
00:31:01
Speaker
don't run backwards. I don't know how many times I would see that, that he would like cut it this way and then he would run 10 yards deep just to come around and and try to get yards off of him. And then I do have that he is probably a, or he had a little bit of double clutch kind so concentration on his catches a little bit. So watch it in a little bit more. Don't worry about this until you have to.
00:31:30
Speaker
worry about getting the ball. But other than that, I think I look at him as a faster and maybe a little bit more polished, Jayden Reed. Right. And that's exactly what I thought too. And what's been keeping me away from fully going out on that. It's like what again, I think the, obviously the threshold screen Bay has for every position, it seems to be especially important with wide receiver and kind of the one time they've gone outside of that has been Jaden Reed. So why, I don't see what he, I mean, again, i I agree with you that he's probably going to be a better player than Jaden Reed, but kind of fits that same skill set and that same creativity. So yeah, it it would be interesting if they ended up going in that direction.
00:32:18
Speaker
I think if he fell to the second round that they would be more apt to it. I just, I don't see them going outside their thresholds for a first round pick. Nothing against them. I love the kid. I thought he was, do I thought he was good. It just, I don't know if they'll go outside the thresholds to take another Jaden Reed, unless now this is crazy. This, I mean, this is really crazy. They package a Jaden Reed for something else. I'm not saying that they need to do it, but you know,
00:32:48
Speaker
there's There's a lot of talk on, well, they need to trade for Max Crosby, or they need to trade for Miles Garrett. You're going to have to give up somebody or something for one of those players. And you know what do the Packers have an abundance of? Right now, wide receivers. Fair enough. Although, I would say, if they if they're putting together a package for Max Crosby, you probably won't have that pick to go for Burton, either. But yes. Maybe.
00:33:16
Speaker
I don't know. I think good accounts can sell water to a drowning man.
00:33:22
Speaker
As evident by the Preston Smith ah ah timeline. Well, and as evident of the the rare and Rogers trade. I mean, it looks like we're really winning that one right now. so Oh, I've loved watching that. it's It's been so much fun, honestly. All right. So the other I can't even remember what the other kid's name is. Because like I said, I can't find too much on him. So but scott Yeah, Theo Weiss Jr. He played at Oklahoma and until 2022, started at Missouri in 2023. He was Missouri's leading wide receiver this past year, even overburdened. And t is he's a deep threat the sense that he
00:34:02
Speaker
He's more of a possession guy. He's not a, again, not a speedster, but 6-2, 192. So he has a nice frame. Really good at contests to catch us. That's his main thing. He is definitely on the older side. I want to say, I don't want to get the wrong, but I believe 23, 24, 23.
00:34:22
Speaker
and beat 24 in June. So there's that, but definitely looking at day three picks. So again, that's kind of more around the range when the Packers are willing to step outside their comfort zone with those thresholds. they've been a little bit more open to older guys as of late, just because they've kind of had to. We're still, we're still in that whole COVID region where we're still dealing with some of those players. So the ages are really hard to go off of right now.
00:34:52
Speaker
ah Yeah, exactly. So, I can't, I'd be surprised if Green Bay ends up selecting Whis. I don't think he's their type. I think they're looking for a guy that can do similar things that they want him to. I mean, he has a height. I just don't know if he has the, I don't know if he's thick enough. I don't know if he's fast enough for, again, that that Christian Watson mold. But again, it's day three where they might be willing to to step outside that.
00:35:22
Speaker
And, and who knows? Cause I was trying to do while I was doing some of my research, I was trying to find guys that they have talked to already through, you know, the senior bowl, the, the Shriner bowl, all that stuff, that, that pre-draft stuff. And they talked to Will Shepherd out of Colorado and they talked to, um, um, God, I just forgot his name. He's out of Eastern Washington. And I can't think of his name as off the top of my head at the moment, but.
00:35:51
Speaker
They seem to be more of that late round, uh, uh, UDFA style because, and I can talk about a shepherd a little bit more because I did see some on him. Uh, he's, he's tall and lanky. I think he's listed at like six, four, six, five, but he's only like 190, you know, maybe 200 pounds. but he's kind of taught, he's kind of like what you were just talking about with we swear.
00:36:21
Speaker
contested catches. He was very good at at the fighting catch. He did have a little bit of wiggle after the catch. But I just, I'm not sure about his speed. I don't know if he's got the speed to go with anything on it. um um I'll say Wiese is a pretty good windblocker too. So he has that going for him. And that's another thing that was kind of hard to watch in some of these films because when they cut them up,
00:36:49
Speaker
They cut right after like, they don't show them blocking and that that's, yeah, that that sucks about it. So, all right. So we got through your, your, uh, Missouri boys going. Uh, is there anybody else that really caught your eye in this pre-draft, uh, uh, lead up?
00:37:10
Speaker
Yeah, Jalen Royals has definitely been a guy, a kid from Utah who has been giving a lot of traction on Packers Twitter. He seems to be one of Packers Twitter guys for this year. Again, kind of kind of a deep threat guy, but also has that athleticism where he can get yours after the catch. I don't know his size, but I think he is on. According to six foot two Oh five.
00:37:38
Speaker
Okay. So it could, could be a little bit taller, but as good size there. So I'm liking Jalen Royals. Um, again, I think in that range of where green Bay is going to be looking at, I don't see round one. so, but I definitely think round two. Well, let let's go ahead and say this. It's been 22 years since the last time the Packers took a wide receiver in the first round. The draft is in green Bay.
00:38:06
Speaker
As of right now, the Packers have a first round pick. Is this the year that the Packers surprise everybody and take a wide receiver in the first round? I mean, I think it would it would align with what Brian Goudekins is talking about of
00:38:25
Speaker
ramping up the urgency to compete for championships. I feel like wide receivers in the first round is a position that more so than other positions you can get guys that can produce day one. So it would align in that way.
00:38:40
Speaker
I think it would be interesting. I think everybody would just be like over that guy would have like the key to the city on the first day, wide receiver and drafted in the first round. Because like I said, it's been 22 years. It was Javon Walker that was the last one in 2022 or now it's 23 years. Sorry. Like I said, I keep forgetting it's 20, 25. but, and good Lord, were you even born at that point? He said it's 2003 or 2002.
00:39:10
Speaker
Oh no, I was not born. Yeah. See, so you weren't even alive the last time they took a wide receiver in the first round. Uh, I know the rumors was that they were trying to jump up and take Christian Watson in the first round, but the Vikings blocked it. But you know, it's been forever. i I like I said, I think that would be now I don't know who it would be. Cause I always put this preference out there when I do.
00:39:36
Speaker
quote-unquote scouting, because I don't even view myself as a scout, but I watch film on a lot of these guys. I try not to put a grade on them, or not a grade, but ah a round on them, because, like, my former co-host, Nick and I, were all over Pukanukua. Well, shit, if it was me, I'd have took him in, like, the third round, but he didn't go until the seventh round. So, I mean, and right now, it's making Nick and I look like geniuses, because Puka's the next top thing.
00:40:06
Speaker
So But back on topic Jalen Royals. I did like him to he reminded me a little bit of maybe of a faster Romeo I was seeing a lot of perks there. I feel sorry for the guy.
00:40:21
Speaker
And I know it's going to be weird for people to say, well, why do you feel sorry for the guy? Because his quarterback for part at least part of the season was Spencer Petrus. And we dealt with Spencer here at University of Iowa and was not that great of a question.
00:40:37
Speaker
So I do feel sorry for the guy in a little way. Now, it sounded like Petrus did a little bit better out with Utah State than than he did with the University of Iowa. but There is that. But yeah, I did like Jalen Royals. And like you said, there is a lot of talk of him going around in pat the Packers version at the moment. said his route running wasn't the greatest. His speed looks okay.
00:41:01
Speaker
But like I said, according to this website, it has them listed as like a four, three, eight, 40. If he can come in at six foot two Oh five and run a four, three, eight, 40, then I think the Packers would have to do everything in the world to get him. Cause that's size and speed. Usually you don't get somebody over six foot that's running that fast unless they're an athletic free. But yeah, Jalen Royals is, is obvious. I don't know about first rounder, but you know, Packers money spot has always been the second round. So maybe that would be where they take them. Yeah. I mean, back to your conversation on the first round, I think there are some guys that could fit, I mean, again, in their range I think would be better fits in them than burden.
00:41:46
Speaker
I think Matthew Golden from Texas is a a pretty exciting option there. ah ah Mega Abuka from Ohio say, I mean, again, he's older. But he's he definitely would. but I mean, you were talking about the excitement that would be surrounding a Packers wide receiver draft in the first round. He's definitely not like a flashy playmaker, more kind of reliable slack guy, not the craziest athleticism in the world.
00:42:12
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, Golden and Abuka would be who I'd be looking at in the first round there. I throw another one out there for you. If you go, if you go based off this website and I'm using NFL draft buzz.com and they have their own ranking systems, but Trey Harris out of Ole Miss, I think would be yeah another one because he fits he fits a little bit more of the Packers thresholds than if you go by what they have measured here. Now they have them going as a little bit of a slower 40 than I would expect, but.
00:42:41
Speaker
I, they have them listed as a four or five, five, which was, I think only 0.04 seconds less than what Devontae ran at the combine. but I really, and you you know, miss is really pumped out a lot of good receivers over the years. Um, I had, he's got a good contestant catch receiver. Yep. I said his speed looks good. So I don't know. Like I said, I don't know where they get the 40 numbers from.
00:43:08
Speaker
if that's just like some kind of, what do you call it, analytics type deal like a PFF, or you know they they track how fast he ran, and then they divide it by pi and multiply it by the diameter. I don't know what the hell they do. um by And I said he had good physicality. And you know like I said, that would be Ole Miss has really hit on a lot of their wide receivers.
00:43:38
Speaker
He fits the thresholds. I wouldn't be against it. I think if you could get anywhere, they have them listed as their number five wide receiver. So that would probably put him down around the Packers range. And, you know, that would be, I think I would be all right with it. And then the other guy, ah ah go ahead.
00:44:02
Speaker
ah Yeah, I was just going to add in and on Harris again. Yeah, I agree with what you got there and I think he fits what they're looking for and what they need. I think the the physicality is definitely something even with Christian Watson, who is their contest guy, catch guy now. I think Harris would add more to that.
00:44:21
Speaker
I didn't watch golden, but I did watch his teammate Isaiah bond. And while I love what bond can do, I said he was a faster Jaden Reed. So that goes back to the bird conversation. You know, do we just draft another You know, Jaden Reed and run with two guys like that. Right. Do we, you know, what's going on? The one that I'll throw out here that I've seen a lot of people talk about as, as a first rounder is, and I'm going to butcher this guy's name. So if he's, if he somehow listens or whatever, I'm sorry, but I never said I was good at names. Uh, Eliq Aymanar manner, Ayo manner out of Stanford. A Y O M A N O R something like that.
00:45:07
Speaker
again, he, he fits a lot of the Packers, uh, thresholds. Uh, let's see. I had him wrote down here. Let me see if I can find him.
00:45:19
Speaker
six to two 10. Yeah. And, uh, like I said, going off what this website says they got him as a four, four to 40.
00:45:32
Speaker
And see, I said, it didn't look like he was super fast, but he had decent speed. He had good separation. He tracked the ball. Well, I thought he needed to do, he needed to use his hands more than, cause he, he tended to body catch it a little bit and that can't really go in the NFL. I mean, you have your, your times when you need to body catch it, but in the NFL, you've got to be more of a hands catcher because you know, the quarterback is going to put it where only your hands can get it. So you feel your body's not going to be able to go everywhere. The quarterback's going to throw it. and I said, he he looked like a really good receiver. Now, like I said, I've, I've heard first round out of him. I, again, I don't go. I don't really put round grades on things, but have you watched him? What do you think out of him? I, no, I have not done no nothing any work on him. No.
00:46:25
Speaker
I get really scared with Stanford because there's been a lot of times that I've seen a lot of guys come out of Stanford that I really like and then they don't do anything in the NFL. ah yeah What was it? Was it last year or the year before I really liked Eli Higgins and he ended up trying to convert to wide receiver and he went late in the draft and you know he's really done nothing. So Stanford is one of those that it's hard for me to gauge. So who else you got?
00:46:55
Speaker
Let's see you here, I got a list. Have we talked about Pat Bryant from Illinois? No, but I have one from Illinois that I would talk about. Okay. Pat Bryant, I believe is kind of more in that day two, day three range. But again, kind of the same story of a lot of these guys we've been talking about of fitting the, the size threshold screen bay has, but then also, and then also having that contested catchability six, three 200. yeah. I mean, just his deep threat ability is kind of a little bit better than some of the other guys we've talked about where it's just kind of contested catches and being able to, to fight at the catch point. I think he's a little bit more athletic. so yeah.
00:47:44
Speaker
Now I'll talk about his teammate and that's Zachariah Franklin And and really he's kind of my puka of this year where I'm not sure how a speed fits in so the Because he didn't look like he was breaking away from anybody So I'd be really interested to see if he he's at the combine and what he runs for a 40 But I said the same thing. He had some amazing catches and He had a lot of contested catches. He had a lot of one-handed catches. He had a lot of sideline catches that I felt the same way that I felt about Puca that this guy can catch almost everything. And, uh, his routes look solid. And then like I said, he's got good fight average size, but I'm not sure about his speed. So, you know, I think depending on what he runs, he could be like Pat Bryant and be a mid to late round guy that the Packers could look at.
00:48:42
Speaker
that's, that's being guys I had on my list. All right. Well, I got a whole other list that I looked at and we can talk about a couple of them. And then what are we setting out of time? We're about an hour or so. uh, I got my handy name name notebook. I think my favorite wide receiver out of this whole group.
00:49:06
Speaker
I mean, I like Trey Harris, I like Zachariah Franklin, um um but I think my top guy would have to be Jack Beck out of TCU. He's strong, fights through the contract, slippery, good hands, speed looks good. He had good tracking of the ball. I learned from the Twitter group that i'm that I that he actually was recruited by LSU as a tight end. And then once I watched him play, that made a lot of sense because he was fighting like a tight end, but he just didn't have the size of a tight end. Shoot, he he looks a little bit like a tight end, but yeah, he's not wide enough. No, I think he's only like a 200 pounds if that, and he's only like 6'1". Well, he's 6'2", 215.
00:50:01
Speaker
And that's definitely not tied in size. I mean, that's even smaller than Luke Musgrave, who is your stretch the field type tied in. But if you can get, and it's weird to say, because normally you say you want to tie it in with the wide receiver mindset. If you can get a wide receiver with a tied in mindset, you know, that would be something else.
00:50:24
Speaker
So I would really be interested in seeing him. I think he'll be more of a day two guy could sneak into the first round, depending on what he would do at the the combine. And I think he's mainly going to be a day two guy. I suppose I better talk about the two Iowa State guys, even though we're a no cyclones team, so people around here. You got Jayden Higgins and see, I even forgot what the other guy's name is.
00:50:53
Speaker
ah ah Jaden Higgins and Jalen Noel. Noel I really liked, which sucks because again, he's a cyclone and I don't know whatever, but I did really like him. He's smaller, good speed, works look decent, hands look good.
Importance of Leadership in the Team
00:51:09
Speaker
Again, he fits kind of the Jaden Reed mold, but maybe with little more speed and maybe a little bit more bulk to him. Higgins is more of your big bodied receiver.
00:51:20
Speaker
Now, I got blasted for this in the group chat, but I'm strongly think this, but I was told I was wrong. I think Jaden Higgins is maybe just a little bit more of an athletic Alan Lazard, because it really didn't pop to me anything special. But, you know, hey, who am I? I don't get paid to do this shit. I'm just a nobody that, you know. And then I think the last guy I'll bring up is Jimmy Horn out of Colorado, Jimmy Horn Jr., which is another kind of slot guy. But he had tremendous speed, runs a good route, good wiggle. he's He's small. His hands look good. And I put a tank del comp on him because he is that smaller type receiver. I think it has him listed as 5'10".
00:52:17
Speaker
And, you know, obviously that's not going, you know, if he's listed five 10 and he hasn't been officially, it went through his measurements and all that, then you've got to worry about what he's actually going to measure. Is he going to come in at, you know, five nine or whatever? I'm trying to pull it up real quick. So I know I'm not talking out my ass here, but,
00:52:42
Speaker
But see, they have him listed as a four, three, four, four, three on this site. So if he can even touch that, that would be, uh, yeah, five, 10, 170 pounds. So you're definitely looking at that tank Dell comp just by size, but I think he'd be a little bit more polished than tank bill. All right. My friend, you got anything else to throw in there?
00:53:09
Speaker
I mean, I was just thinking, I like Will Sheppard just because I'm an SEC guy, but I think overall, but I agree with you on on what you added in on him too. I don't know if he really has that athleticism to get separation. But yeah, I think overall wide receiver, what Packers with both three agency and in the draft will be really telling of where they feel this whole team is at and how much Brian Goudekins really sticks to his word per se on wanting to pick up this urgency. And I think it shouldn't be lost that for how much we we talked at the the start of the episode of Jaden Reed and Don Tafian Wicks that both those two guys I think can still be real exciting players. No different from what we we saw from them in the rookie year in that last half of the season of the potentially they have.
00:54:03
Speaker
I think they can still meet that and I think, you know, it's very possible just some young those that were magnified when you have such a young team. But at the end of the day, need you can't go into a season, I think, with this on much uncertainty. i wide see even when Green Bay all those years in 2020 and 2021, when there was the questions of, man, they they have nobody at wide receiver. they They knew what they were getting at least out of Monte Adams, out of Al Mozart, and a few of the other pieces in there. And this going into this year, I mean, I would say Romeo Dobbs is a pretty known commodity. You don't know Christian Watts in it. I would be shocked if he plays in the regular season, if at all, next season. But we'll see on that. And then, again, with the the two
00:54:52
Speaker
guys are going to be in touring year three. And ah ah outside of that, I mean, I agree with you on Malik Heath, but overall, again, I think the moves that Green Bay makes at this position all offseason are going to be pretty telling of just how they feel this, where they feel they are on this ramp up right now.
Closing Thoughts and Future Content
00:55:11
Speaker
So I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Dan Kotnick last week.
00:55:17
Speaker
You don't have to give me a specific player, but you can if you want. Day one, NFL draft, Packers are on the clock. Pick 23. What's the, what's the move? What do I want them to do? Or what's my prediction? what What's your prediction? It doesn't necessarily have to be wide receiver. I know we're on the wide receiver episode, but what is your prediction for pick number 23? Do they stand Pat? Do they trade?
00:55:46
Speaker
What do they, what position group do they, they take if they're, if they stay Pat, or if you've got a name in your mind that you would love to see him draft, go for it. Put your prediction out on the table. Man. I feel like this year I felt the kind of same, the same way this past year of I, I would not be surprised by anything. I could really see them. I could see them by the start of April, not Holding on to pick 23 or first round pick anymore. I could see them making one of those blockbuster trades I could see them on draft night trading up although I would say that's less likely I could see them trading down just because they I would say they they have Cornerback edge that they really need to invest at both of those i but I would say strongest prediction I think
00:56:42
Speaker
Oh, man. I want to say they're going to draft a cornerback because that feels like the most obvious place they need to add up. But it feels like every year there's one of those that they they don't end up adding there. and um I would say right now, I feel like it's going to be an edge rusher. There you go. There's the prediction. well We'll see what happens. you know we're What's the countdown? We're under 70 days, aren't we? it's like Yeah, I would think.
00:57:10
Speaker
starts april I know it's April 23rd, or yeah, 26th, sorry. I'm trying to think, what were my days that I took off? I took off the 23rd to the 26th, so it's got to be like the 24th, 25th, and 26th. So we're getting close, but Joey, why don't you give everybody, you know, where they can reach you, what they can see, what you're up to, you know, what are you up to, where they can find you and all that good stuff.
00:57:39
Speaker
How they can support. Yes, absolutely. I'm on Twitter at Joey VZ underscore. That's where find me all the time. then do the cover of Mizzou football and basketball every day over at Missouri Tigers on SI and through that same network, working with Bill Huber at Packers on SI and I'll be at the NFL combine next week. So, uh, can follow along there for draft updates.
00:58:04
Speaker
We're still trying to get him more involved with blue sky. Cause I think that's the way to go for the future. now i'm I'm trying to, I wish a lot of journalists has pointed out, like I would love to, and I wish the market was there, ah but we, we were having a lot of success on that app for our Mizzou site more so than Twitter. So I've been trying to get more engaged there. Yeah. And I've said the same thing. I still try to put stuff out through the, the old Twitter, but you know, ah ah my main account is mainly on.
00:58:34
Speaker
on blue sky. Cause I, it's been a lot nicer over there. We'll just put it back. Yes, absolutely. But you can follow the show at, uh, Ohana Packers, Ohana underscore Packers on Twitter. We don't quite have a blue sky account for the the Packers. I mean, for the Ohana, uh, we don't have an Ohana account. I don't know why all of a sudden couldn't talk. but.
00:59:03
Speaker
You can follow me, I would Joe at blue sky dot social. I think that there's Iowa would Joe dot blue sky dot social. I think is how they do their things over there. Uh, find us on Facebook, Ohana Packers edition. Instagram Ohana Packers edition. Go to our website. Ohana Packers.org. Joey wrote for us for a short time. I'm trying to talk him back into it, you know, slipping, slipping him some, some ideas on how to get him back over here.
00:59:34
Speaker
the You can find all our latest articles. Carlos is doing a great job over there. He just released his first mock draft a couple of days ago, and then he made the case for re-signing Josh Myers. You can find those over at ohanapackers.org. You can find past episodes of the show over there. You can still find a lot of Brian's stuff. I know Brian said he'll be starting the recording March 1st, so find his stuff over there. Go over to the merch shop, you know, go buy some merch, to support us. You know, I put in a lot of minutes into a lot of those of ideas and, you know, I really didn't put a lot of time into it. So just, you know, help support the show.
01:00:23
Speaker
But you know it it's not really expensive to do a podcast, but it's also not Cheap either so you know go support us get you some great merch Maybe if we get some more merch I can hire Joey instead of it move here a little bit more oh Or you know just Retweet like us drop some five-star reviews helps us get seen by more people And I'll just continue our content next week. I think it is I said this last week and I completely and i thought we were doing the line this week, but it ended up I think next week is fine. I don't know if we have a guest lined up I'm not sure. I don't even know if you want to show enough. So be on the lookout for all that
01:01:14
Speaker
As Mike would say, Go Pack Go and Aloha.