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OPE Season 3 Episode 41 Are you Pondering the Corner I'm Pondering?
27 Plays16 days ago
Aloha and welcome to another episode of OPE! This week Mike is joined by Draft guru Brian Maafi! The pair sit down and discuss the current state of the Packers cornerbacks and take a look at some prospects who Green Bay could target in April's draft!
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Transcript
Intro
00:01:17
Speaker
right.
Introduction and Technical Glitches
Packers' Quarterback Room Analysis
00:01:18
Speaker
Welcome back to the Hannah Packard is edition podcast, the podcast where we are going over Packers draft needs Packers hold the brain fart already. It's early in the morning. 23rd pick in the 2025 draft.
00:01:35
Speaker
We're off to a rip-roid start. Today, we have Brian Moffy on to talk about quarterbacks. And to give a quick refresher, quarterback room is a little devoid of talent right now, or talent that's certain to be on roster next season. So as of right now, guys, you've got signed through 2025 of any Any sort of weight is ja Jair, who has some big question marks. Goot and LeFlore need to do some damage control and assessment there, but
00:02:10
Speaker
That's their job. Their job is to try and retain talent, see what's going to go with that. val Carrington Valentine and then Kishon Dixon. And
Cornerbacks: Trends and Mistakes
00:02:19
Speaker
that's it. That's like the notable signed corners through 2025 at this point. I know they've got some futures contracts, but those are oh about as lottery ticket signings as possible at this point in time. so Brian, first off, thank you for coming back again. I know Joe kind of holds you at gunpoint on these ones, but I always appreciate you coming on. And the way we get around that, too, is that you record during the daytime and Joe can't. So it's just you and me, buddy. fuck But. um
00:02:55
Speaker
First off, we talk about it all the time. I know it sparks a lot of conversation on Twitter and Blue Sky, but Packers trends and thresholds, what are those for cornerback tend tend to be? and Yeah, generally it's about five, 10 and a half at height. Obviously Jair is a little bit shorter, he's five, 10 and a quarter, but so thell they'll good deal make something here or there, but that's basically the what it is you're looking at. a five and a half about 190 um then at least 31 inch arms for if they're going to be an outside corner they've given them a slot they'll take the guys a little bit shorter arms like 30 30 and a half i think it is something like that um then obviously just high r s scores you know eight plus i i laugh because this is one of those positions where
00:03:44
Speaker
they've tried to buck the trend a couple times and it has bit them in the ass and like the Rollins pick comes to mind and then another one that is to a lesser extent but it was still kind of important because it was in a draft where they needed corners was the Oh fuck, I'm forgetting. Shamar, Shamar John Charles, where it was like, right you kind of needed another corner. You know, you got Stokes, you kind of needed another corner in that draft ended. You took a guy that was like a marginal athlete that, you know, a lot of people were like slot size, slot athlete, but it's like, he never played slot in college. So yeah, you know, you'd like to hope that they're past the stage of fitting square pigs at round holes, but
00:04:26
Speaker
Like you said, we'll see.
00:04:30
Speaker
i do you know there's it's It's only a year, but it it is nice that Halfly does seem to put guys in their relatively best roles as much as the current roster construction allows them to and stuff. But you know those are the thresholds. We'll see that. And you know we'll just jump right in, Brian. Round one options. Who are the guys that you know, just off the bat, if they're there at 23, you can see Goot jumping at at this point.
Round One Draft Prospects
00:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, so probably Amos from Ole Miss, Travis. Jake Jake Shavig's boy, is is his his golden boy. Yeah, he sort he started off at Louisiana Lafayette, and then he transferred up to Alabama last year, and last year they played him the kind of slot, which is not really his best position.
00:05:22
Speaker
I think kind of, it seems like people kind of forgot about him and then he played o almost this year, he played outside this year and he kind of got his shine back, I guess, or whatever you want to call it from the media. There's an outside chance too, Azariah Thomas from Florida State. He's kind of, actually, you know know you know me, I'm not really a huge comp guy, but I was kind of thinking about the other day, I think he kind of reminds me a little bit of of of Mike McKenzie, a little bit.
00:05:48
Speaker
So I think that's that's kind of a good decent comp. I can see it. Yeah, more of a fluid athlete than like a truly explosive one, but really uses his size well and knows what kind of corner he is. I think that's really important with with these kind of guys. Yeah, not really a big ball production type guy. Like, although just today he had that one-handed interception with the near ball.
00:06:09
Speaker
with where the Wazoo receiver took two days to get off the line of scrimmage on his own accord. But they got have guys who can find the ball, right? Got to set up moves on top of moves on top of moves, right? to get I'm going to toss the softball up for you because we've talked about him before because he's your guy. But and Maxwell Hairston, self hackers fans on Maxwell Hairston.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah, a little disappointed in his measurements, but than that, he came to 5.11, about $1.80, so he's about 10 pounds off, so I mean, and we'll see as far as the weight, if he can get his weight up at the combine, or for the combine, I should say.
00:06:49
Speaker
But yeah, he's a play like that. Wait, though, that's that's kind of what's surprising about it. Yeah. All right. No, no. Yeah. um if If if you watched if anybody watched Andrew Phillips from last year from Kentucky, he is somewhat he's similar is his play style similar, but he's more of an outside corner where Andrew Phillips more of a slot.
00:07:08
Speaker
You know, he's a physical dude, like I said, 5'11, 180. Physical good dude, he's got decent speed, not like great speed, but he's got good speed. Pretty good athletes, but you know, is he's he's he's a freaking dog, dude. Like, he'll he will he will take on, you know, 230-pound running backs head-on. He'll take them down. He doesn't care. You know, he'll trash talk receivers. He'll get physical receivers. You know, really good ball skills, too. Had, I think, five interceptions or something like that was last year.
00:07:36
Speaker
this year he had like a leg injury so he missed like half the season almost. just kind of wasn't himself when he came back. Obviously he came back I but believe it was like about two games. Two games. But yeah if you go back and watch the 2023 films it was it was really good. Like I said just a dude with a dog. I mean he would his play style would fit with what what Gootie likes because he likes those physical guys. Guys who are willing to tackle guys who can cover, guys who have good ball skills, you know, he has cover, he has man cover experience, and you know, cover one,
Draft Strategy and Concerns
00:08:04
Speaker
cover zero, stuff like that. So, yeah covers the, cover three too. So he would, he would fit in with their, there's their system.
00:08:11
Speaker
Yeah, and I think, you know, people label Ja however they feel like because they, you know, I joke that the worst thing to be in as a packer is the the a free agent signing, especially a draft pick who got extended because everyone just, everyone who loved, not everyone but 80% of the people who loved you hate you right after we saw it happen to Clay, we saw it happen to, we're seeing it happen to Jair now and stuff. And it's, you know, a lot of the stuff you, like you said, you so listed about Hairston, it's a lot of stuff that Jair wasn't known for doing. And, and kind of ironically, it's what got him started to being injury prone is because he was not afraid of taking on Najee Harris in the flat and fucked up his shoulder in 2021. So, I mean,
00:08:58
Speaker
It's kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. and Not to get, you know, we're focusing on the draft, but the reason that I'm hopeful that they'll keep Jair around is because I do still think there is a good player in there. I think his injuries were more freak than they are, have been like, repet you know, like a Christian Watson where it's a repetitive, same thing over and over and over. Like, you know, you have the shoulder in 21. This year you have the knee injury where I thought he blew his ACL out when he did it at the time because his knee kind of buckled when he came down on it and stuff. And, you know, last year he had the soft tissue, but
00:09:32
Speaker
it was never the same soft tissue and I know that he's a smaller guy, he's getting older but no you can't just expect it, you know, as much as I do think Goot is going to do one of his two or three draft pick kind of, you know, investments in the room, you can't expect to, you know, if you're expecting this team to take that next step into contention, you can't expect to turn over your whole cornerback room and, and you know, hand the keys to your vets being Valentine who came on as the season went on but also is still a seventh round pick and Nixon who you know played better as an outside corner but still has his flaws as a player so you know there's there would be a lot of holes to fill so that's why I do think the route is for Goot to at least mend the fences and keep Ja around for 2025 and then you really have that conversation moving forward but like he's like we kind of touched on
00:10:23
Speaker
this round one pick and you can't pen you can't you know sharpie anything in but if you can get like a Hairston or an Amos or even a Thomas if you know I know we joked that that's a guy that that's a good pick all the way because he's young you know he's like he's still 20 at this point yeah he'll be 20 through the draft like through OTAs basically um um and you know, has the movement skills, the size, and good does seem to, you know, he has these weird like unicorn hunting things at different positions. And one of his as that corner is like, I'm gonna find, know, he he wants to find his Doug Evans, basically, like his big, like, his, his tall, strong cover corner.
Top Prospects Analysis: Hunter and Johnson
00:11:08
Speaker
And,
00:11:10
Speaker
I do want, you know, Amos kind of fits that bill. He's not necessarily the most physical guy, but he is that bigger cover corner guy. Thomas fits that bill to an extent. So who are some guys, you know, and let's play the other side of it. Who are some guys that you, for either play style, they're not hitting thresholds. Who are guys that you don't think Green Bay would or should pick in the first round? First round, it's not a lot of guys that are there that are going to likely be there at 23.
00:11:39
Speaker
But I see possibly Benjamin Morrison from Notre Dame. Mostly it's a couple of things. He's got a smaller frame. Overall size-wise he's kind of in that range where he's kind of a packer size. Last side measurements I had out of him was about six foot one eighty six in the summer. But he's got a small frame.
00:11:56
Speaker
And then that his injury gets three. That's going to scare off the Packers for sure. They don't like drafting guys coming off injuries. He had a shoulder in 2023, and then he had then had a hip this past year. So major injuries, major surgeries. So that's going to scare off the Packers, as especially at least in the first round.
00:12:18
Speaker
Offhand, I don't know if there's any other, let's hear real quick. You know, the guys that are really first round prospects, I would say that are, that Packers would skip. I mean, there's Kobe Bryant from Kansas, but he's more of a second round guy. You know, you saw his measurements. He was 5'11", 170 pounds.
00:12:37
Speaker
He doesn't play to it. He he plays bigger, more physical. 170 pounds is in ah the packers. That's going to scare the crap out of the packers. Because otherwise he missed me through all the threadfolds, but they're just 160 pounds. They're not going to be like, no, yeah, no, thanks. That's a high school weight for some of us. so
00:12:57
Speaker
And okay, and we do it every, fans do it every year. They won't because there's no way they're going to get either of these two guys. But of the two top of the class guys, OK, first off, Hunter, is he a corner or a receiver for you?
00:13:13
Speaker
Both, I mean, not in the sense probably people think, but like, he's actually, I think he'll be somewhat similar to his head coach, Tienan Sanders, in the NFL. So he'll play mostly corner, and then he'll play maybe 10 snaps of the game on the receiver. They'll use them end around, so they'll use them in bubble screens. They'll use them just in slot. They'll use them outside. Just move around, just try and get the ball in his hands. Again, make some plays with the ball in his hands. But he'll mostly play corner. Yeah.
00:13:41
Speaker
and How slow would my guy Will Johnson have to run to get in range for the Packers to trade out? I'm just kidding. there He's Yeah, but those are two guys that what do you think top five top ten probably kind of picks for both of them Just yeah, well, yeah Travis probably go be go one or two. Yeah, we'll probably go like in the top five ish Yeah, eight is top eight at the worst Yeah.
00:14:14
Speaker
Yeah, it it's kind of the the one rub on him is the last two years he's dealt with some like weird injuries and stuff and Michigan is like really tight lipped about what he's dealing with but he's a playmaker. i think I think this year he kind of sold out at times to you know just force plays and stuff like that. you You saw it in the Fresno State game this year where he was kind of like gambling at the line of scrimmage and stuff but then you know he might get beat over the top And corners do. But then you see him get a pick six at the end of that game to like shut the door on it. And you know he has the big. it that like As a Michigan fan, the best thing I can say about him is that his best games were mostly in the biggest games that he played in. Basically, going back to 2022,
00:15:03
Speaker
Ohio State, or 22 and 23 really, Ohio State just didn't look at Marvin Harrison Jr. much if if Johnson was on him pre-snap. Last year you saw kind of the why they were afraid of that because you know he gets the interception in the first quarter that sets up Michigan's first touchdown and stuff.
00:15:20
Speaker
and then national championship game he has that diving interception the big 10 championship game two years ago he has two interceptions of Aiden O'Connell and so you know i'll keep the love fest short because like we said there's no way Goot is trading into the top eight you know i know some people are like oh like you can use just like If you guys are so ready to ship Jai, you're out the door. You're not getting anything worth value. You know, teams, and as much as I joke that bad front offices do dumb things, teams are plugged into other teams really well. And if there's discontented player kind of thing, like they know that, you know, there and even with as conservatives, the Packers may be, and like I said, they're probably trying to do damage control and stuff like that.
00:16:07
Speaker
they're not gonna just be like, oh, here's a first round day kind of thing and stuff. So, you know, those come in a blue moon and all that kind of stuff, but. Yeah, I wouldn't expect that kind of if anything for what for what you would get with jaw I think the max would be like what they got for Jevon Walker back in 2006 was like a second end I think like a fourth or a fifth or something like that and I even that I think that would be pushing it but it's kind of similar situations guy coming off an injury the previous year You know upset with the front office and stuff But you know, you're not getting a top half first round pick unless someone is just like really
00:16:45
Speaker
you know I guess the fact that Jair's contract has two whole years on it helps, but at the same time it's like other teams are like, okay, he's been injured the last two years, all that kind of
Day Two Draft Prospects
00:16:55
Speaker
stuff. but As you mentioned, there's not a ton of first round guys. I do think this is a deeper class than last year where it was like, if you don't get one of these guys early, you're kind of like, you know, you and I were messaging back and forth. We were like, all right, who's left? Who's left that you would take at this point and all that kind of stuff?
00:17:17
Speaker
This does, in a kind of in a way, feel sort of like the 2020 receiver draft, where it's like there's a handful-ish guys that you've got in first-round range. And then there's a lot of like day two and like day three guys that are going to fall to day three that you're like, OK, those are names to work with. But surefire day two guys, who who's on your radar? For Green Bay, a guy who some people have talked about a little bit and have some some deja vu with, I guess.
00:17:46
Speaker
Quincy Riley from Louisville similar. Yeah, I know you actually look in your face. Yeah, the similar measurements to Jair. Not the same player, obviously not the same skill set. Some similarities, but not enough. He's got a little bit thicker build even though the same size. He's thicker build. He's not as fast, but he's pretty fast. He's probably going to run like the low four fours. Jair was like four three nine, four three is something like that when he came out.
00:18:17
Speaker
But also you got another guy, kind of I kind of like Tommy Hill from Nebraska. He's a big dude. He came in at a six foot 210 and a 33 inch arm. So he's got a lot with long arms, a big dude. Nebraska always seems to find those big, like randomly, cause like you can't print some with Kamara and oh, who's that guy from the 2000 Zach something. But yeah, they always just randomly have these big, like, and not just tall, they're like big corners too, like 200 and up kind of thing.
00:18:44
Speaker
right yeah Not an elite athlete, but good athlete enough athlete. I really like Mela Dawson from Kansas, Kobe Bryant's teammate. He's somewhat similar to Kobe Bryant, but he's a little bit bigger. Kobe's probably a little bit faster straight in line and stuff like that, but Mela's got the size and a little more physicality to him and stuff like that.
00:19:05
Speaker
Zay Alexander, LSU, he transferred up there a couple years ago from a FCS school, kind of blanking on what school it is right now, but he's 6'1", 192, 31-inch arm, so he's got that size. He's got really good speed, actually, too. He's still developing a little bit just because he was a FCS guy first, and then he struggled a little bit in 2023, and then this year kind of came on a little bit, but he's still Yeah, still he's still like, I would say, kind of a quote unquote developmental guy. Another guy, know a but a lot of people like Noel Williams came from Cal. Another guy that's a good size, 6'1", 190-ish, physical, strong. Again, but that kind of average-ish, slightly above average athlete. So he's kind of in that and that range where he may or may not be fit to pack his thresholds as far as athleticism.
00:19:54
Speaker
But his size and his play style fits. He's using that some versatility to him because he's played some in the box too, like a UNLV before he came to Cal. And I think a little bit even when he was at Cal, but mostly more UNLV. And then Carlin Vigar is kind of a sleeper, maybe day three, maybe day two guy from Louisiana Monroe, another big guy, six foot 188, 32 inch arms, decent speed, stuff like that.
00:20:23
Speaker
Who else?
00:20:30
Speaker
yeah
00:20:32
Speaker
Oh yeah, there's a guy, Darian Porter, from Iowa State. Older guy, but he's still develop developing because he came to Iowa State as a wide receiver, changed positions in 2022, didn't really play much in 2022. Basically didn't play at all, basically, outside special teams. 2023, he played a little bit, he's kind of back up, but became a starter this year and kind of really took off this year.
00:20:55
Speaker
6.292 pounds, I think it was. I'm trying to look at the numbers here real quick.
00:21:04
Speaker
we' yeah 6.297 actually, sorry, and com at the single bowl. And then 33 in terms, still got long arms. Decent athlete, good athlete. Not great, lot not elite, but good athlete. Got pretty good ball skills too. for You can tell, obviously, because he's a former receiver.
00:21:19
Speaker
um um and Chris, you're right, the teammate Corey Thornton, another good size guy, six foot 184, 32 inch arms. Decent athlete again, physical guy, you know, strong. Has some trouble with quick outjill type guys, but he's another mid, like mid day.
00:21:37
Speaker
Yeah, I know we talked about thresholds and stuff, but and and it's hard to say because they didn't draft. Well, I know they took Kaitlyn King, but that was kind of a seventh round flyer. But money I feel like they're going to look more for guys who can, you know, flip their hips and mirror because, you know, we've we've kind of talked about it how Halfly would like to do more man concepts in his coverage. But, you know, the the hand he was dealt this past year is kind of a broken hand and a incomplete and broken hand. But obviously, you know, we're not going to have Ladarius Gunters or even Quinton Rollins who are running in the high four fives or anything, likely not going to have those kind of doubts. But
00:22:15
Speaker
know oh but you'd think that for these guys and on the athleticism side they may skew more towards like the short area quickness, explosiveness, agility times more than like just their straight line 40 times or is it kind of just you know i know it depends who's available and stuff but like if you told me that they have the you have the elite straight line guy with okay agilities and the or with okay to good enough agilities or the elite agility guy with good enough speed like do you think they would air towards the guy with the agility and explosiveness?
Cornerback Strategy: Agility vs Speed
00:22:57
Speaker
That's kind of what the tent the packers tend to do is kind of air towards the agility and wholesomeness because you know if you look at their history of their corners they drafted
00:23:05
Speaker
ah ah outside of Jair and a few other guys here and there and stuff like that. They don't really draft super fast guys. They're usually l four five s hi four low four high four and stuff like that. I mean, you know, even Jair was four, three, nine. He was like one of the fastest corners they've ever drafted, really. So yeah, they skew towards more agility, explosiveness and stuff like that, rather than just pure straight line speed.
00:23:31
Speaker
And I guess last one is, any end of the draft guys that you have higher hopes for than where they're going to go in this one? Let's see my list.
00:23:46
Speaker
Kind of a day three super, kind of like a Donald Fortune from South Carolina. Fits the Packers thresholds. You know, 6 foot 188, 31 charms, or almost 32 in charms actually. Who else are like,
00:24:02
Speaker
There's not a lot, like some of the later turn on guys are kind of like outside of the thresholds kind of, so to speak. I mean, we've got to keep an eye on us maybe Eric Rogers from Rutgers. I don't have any official measurements on him, but last he was listed, that was 6-2-1-90. He showed some stuff this year from Rutgers. Again, not an elite athlete, but he's got good size and stuff like that.
00:24:27
Speaker
kind of look Maybe Corey Black from Oklahoma State he might be a day three guy that you could you could take a look at. Not a lot else. There's a lot of guys that are kind of more slots.
00:24:41
Speaker
Yeah, they have they have too many of those guys on the roster at this point. I think like, obviously, you always want to like increase talent when you can and stuff, but they they do need more perimeter guys at this point. and Not just perimeter guys, they need perimeter guys who can allow Halfly to run more man because You know, we saw there was a distinct difference in how he called his defense when he had Jair and for that time after, you know, when they, you know, for the like six games where they were trying to figure out is Jair going to come back. And you saw a lot of like cover to cover three with rotation and all that kind of stuff to like, you know, really protect the perimeter corners and stuff. And we do know that Halfly would rather go on the offensive and, you know, be aggressive with his calls and his coverages and, yeah
00:25:26
Speaker
like Like I said, that's why I do think they do the everything they can to get Jair back for the season because you know you deal with the hand you know, and then you also draft guys who can potentially take that position to you know take up that mantle you know depending on how 2025 goes. But you know we hear the joke all the time that you know different guys are banging the table in the draft room, but I don't think Halfly should have to do much table banging in this one because everyone kind of knows where this you know this is the spotlighted room, I think, of the roster at this point. that's like you know you know You can argue about Edge needs different kind of players, maybe Tackle. you know
00:26:06
Speaker
wide receiver is on the horizon and all that kind of stuff. But corner is the like, you know, corner is safety of last year, especially because like, like safety last year, you didn't address it in 2022. And so 23, you had to address it. And now in 24. And especially because to like, there's not, you know, some people are like, Oh, they have money to spend. But I'm like, there's not a corner that like, has even like, oh, I'm feeling really good if that guy is CB2 on this roster kind of thing. Like, aren it's, you know, I know some people are like, oh, like, you know, has Valentine, but I'm like, I'd rather roll the dice on Valentine showing you, you know, like you just stick him at cornerback to
00:26:49
Speaker
and or you know whatever the the power of the order shakes out and you gotta like you you're in his third year of his rookie contract he's still dirt cheap because you don't play him very much um and stuff despite the injuries his first two seasons so and we've seen you know we saw the talent this year um and Yeah, I think it's just a matter of getting more you know athletic bodies in that room that let Halfly do what he wants to do. But
Plans for Cornerback Room
00:27:15
Speaker
how do how do you see kind of see it playing out going into, I know that we're crystal balling it through a month and a half out of free agency and what is it, two and a half months out of the draft. But you know what is your, if you if you were Gudakund, how would your wish list go into how you would handle um addressing the room this offseason?
00:27:37
Speaker
Yeah, I know some of the the the big Packer's content creators, data specifically Negler know nagler and what's the name from Packaday? Herman, Andy. Yeah, let me go to you for a second. permanent they They both here, they think J.O. is gone.
00:27:57
Speaker
I mean, I guess that's the point of view. That's fine. I'm not trying to say they're they're wrong or they're dumb or anything like that, but um just, you know, I don't agree with it. I think it just doesn't make sense to go into next year with Nixon, Valentine, and then who draft picks. Yeah. You know, especially if they have, you know, Super Bowl aspirations, you know, Goot said, basically said we're we're trying to like win a Super Bowl this this coming year. We're tired of of of just been going to the the wild card or whatever, you know, they want to, you don't cut your or trade away your best player base. Well, that's supposed to be best player in defense. you know, I mean, if he has injuries again, this, this year, then I can see him cutting him or trading him or whatever. But if you're trying to win the Super Bowl, like this coming year, you don't, you don't want to let go of Jair.
00:28:43
Speaker
That's that's been the basis of my thought process that I know, like, you know, everyone's like, oh, but what did he say on exit day? I'm like, what is he supposed to say? Like, you know, everyone's pissed off that the season ended the way it did. He's obviously upset how his ended. So it's like.
00:28:58
Speaker
He's not going to sit there and be like, oh, it was great. like i've I've got high hopes for 2025. If you felt one way before, you're going to feel one way after. So it's like, I don't put too much weight in his comments his exit comments this ah this season. Yeah, he's guy he's always kind of, as they say, but held his is his heart on his sleeve or whatever. His motion's are always there. you know he's he's he doesn't tend to be too quote unquote PC you know stuff or like you know you tend to just be honest and stuff yeah like i said i just um um i i don't and i can't see them going into next year with nixon valentine and and then some draft picks and be like well we're gonna we think this is a good enough to take a suitable you know like and oh my god it's two coming out but it's just right enough and then on the and then on the money side of it like i'm not gonna go too deep into it or anything but
00:29:50
Speaker
It's one of those where it's worth the money to try and see if you can figure it out for this season. you don't You don't renegotiate. You don't push money out or anything like that. You leave the contract the way it is. You have more than enough money to do other window dressing and you know whole patching or extending you know like a Zach Tom and stuff like that. But then, yeah, you just leave the contract the way it is, because if it doesn't work out in 25, 26, there's a lot more you gain by cutting him. Forget post June 1st. If you pre-June 1st him, I think it's like 17 or something like that. So i that's why I just think that we agree at that point that it's like, you got to just, they that's Gudukun's then Leflore's job is to conflict
Roster Composition and Strategy
00:30:31
Speaker
resolution. And so that's that's the first domino, but please continue. them
00:30:36
Speaker
Oh yeah, that was basically it just, it doesn't make sense to go next season with, like I said, cause Nixon, he's okay. You know, he's, you know, he's, he played better on the outside than he did in the slot, but it wasn't anything special. I wasn't there right at home about, you know, middle ground corner, you know, basically, you know, average starter.
00:30:53
Speaker
Valentine again, kind of an average-ish starter. Still has talent on the but he hasn't shown any, and he has a so former 7th round pick. you know Like i I said back in his draft class, I i had him as i had a 4th round grade on the guy, so I like him a lot too, but still, it goes to the your your your ah hopefully Super Bowl season with Nixon, Valentine, and and King.
00:31:19
Speaker
Yeah. i mean even though Even though some people were saying, coming into this pass draft, they're like, oh, no, the packer's a finer corner. They don't need a corner. They don't need a corner. And I was like, uh, there's a lot of ifs in that corner back group. i don yeah um don't think it's a good idea. And then of course, and the button, you know, that person is wrong, but.
00:31:37
Speaker
Yeah, so and and I think you know Valentine is in this weird situation where like the first two years of his career They're like trying so, you know, he's his rookie season rookie season is kind of what especially as a seventh-round pick It's like who you made plays in preseason who we like you and stuff like but you're still a seventh-round pick They're gonna put obviously jaws gonna start. They still had resul Stokes is trying to get back on the field and stuff. So it's like and then this past year You could tell when they like shut the door on Stokes, but they tried to keep that door open, which makes sense because that's a former first round pick, you know, for as much as people are like, but buzz, whatever, I'm like, you've still got to see if there's something behind that door. And they held it open for as realistically probably a game or two longer than maybe it should have. But.
00:32:29
Speaker
at that point. There was a point during the season where, you know, on one of our shows, I basically said, like, they're at the point where they should honestly just cut him. You know, I think it was like week 12 or something. I was like, it's just better for everyone. You know, he's getting like 12 snaps a game. He's not gonna, you know, like,
00:32:46
Speaker
if he If he hasn't proven he deserves more than 12 snaps with no Jair, like he's not going to just magically get it back kind of thing. Like it's probably, you know, he's in a Kevin King situation. And then on the backside of it's like,
00:33:01
Speaker
I know that you don't have a lot of options, but like figure out if Valentine is more than just a guy in the room or if like you can hang your hat on, you know, him getting 50 snaps a game kind of thing. And, you know, guys that they've kept around, Rochelle Haddon. I know that Haddon was only here, but like, you know, as date man yeah, they've talked up these different guys a whole bunch. and Yeah, I just thought that, it'll be interesting going forward because it's like, okay, Valentine's a guy that probably should start next year and whether Jair is back or not. But then the, you know, what's going to happen if they take a guy first or second round, it's like, that guy's got to start. kind of thing. And they yeah, so he's in that weird position where it's like, like, is he ever going to really, what was this, you know, post, you know, post week 11, was that his shot to like, earn his spot kind of thing? And I hope not, because I agree with you. You know,
00:34:01
Speaker
there's there's few guys who when you watch their combine, their drills and like the one that always breaks my heart because he the head on his shoulders was never good enough was if you watch Damarius Randles like you know his like his agility drills and when he did the like when he did the back pedal and the the you know the w drills and stuff I'm like that's like That's the textbook how you want that thing to look. There's no wasted steps. He's in and out in a you know in a snap. He's in and out of his transitions. Jair was pretty good about it. He just has kind of a weird gait to how he runs kind of thing. like I always joke that he kind of runs like a toddler who like just started running for the foot. But he's he just f freaking fast. And Valentine is pretty fluid too. And yep those are the kind of guys that it's like, and like
00:34:49
Speaker
like you said like Valentine you know partly it was because like his playing experience and his technique and stuff and you know Jair shot off the boards as you know his final year in college but when you have movement skills like that those are the guys that I'm like you know I joke that you draft athletes and let them learn how to football Valentine's at the point where he's not gonna gait you know like it He's not going to learn anything more. and There's nothing in practice or drills that's going to change what he is as a player. it's He's just got to you just gotta to let him play and see like what you're going to get out of him and stuff. So ye we'll see. it's it's you know Joe and I always use the term, it's a fluid situation. But this one is definitely in a lot of flux this offseason because yeah there's just, yeah.
00:35:39
Speaker
there's gonna be shuffling of the deck and moving of the
Draft Class Depth and Injury Concerns
00:35:42
Speaker
deck chair. So we'll see where it ends up. you know And yeah, just expect a fully different room by the time that training camp opens. you know They just got to, like they like we both kind of pointed out during this this episode, they've got to, do they just can't go into, you know if like we said, like Goot said,
00:36:06
Speaker
if the expectation is that you know this is year three of the love the love quarterbacking, and if you're gonna compete for a Super Bowl, your quarterback room can't be a skip open a prayer. People will point to like, oh, well, Sam Shields, but like they had Tremont, they had Charles. You had the idea that maybe Al Harris was gonna come back off ACL and help you and stuff.
00:36:31
Speaker
you still had at the time they hadn't cut him yet but what's it called oh i can't i think of his name right now um sorry i was just joking it's a gunter okay No, um, uh, black men, you still had will black men lasted at times and stuff, but then, you know, like they take a flyer on Sam shields becomes their nickel because it's like, okay, you need a guy who can just run really fast kind of thing. And like spend picks in the draft, but also like sign those kinds of guys sign your equivalent.
00:37:05
Speaker
know, your Yosh Naiman equivalent at corner kind of thing and just like that guy's big and fast and can turn, you know, can flip his hips really well. So any last thoughts you got on this one, just the draft class overall or anything that's picking your brain? Yeah, no, it's ah ah it's a it's a good laugh draft class. I like it a lot. Like we said, it's it's deep at the top. There's basically a few guys and then there's kind of a little bit of a drop and then there's a bunch of guys.
00:37:34
Speaker
I know some people have said like, Oh, it's not that great of a class because, Oh, well these, this guy's injured and that guy's injured or whatever. But like, I mean, Oh, you're kind of talking, Will Johnson was a, from what we can tell, it was a small, it wasn't like a major injury. Right. Yeah. If, if like, if it was, if, uh, what do you call it? If this was the NFL and he had a game, he could play it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I wasn't going anywhere this year. Like they were protecting his future assets too. Of course. again Yeah.
00:38:02
Speaker
Yeah. And Morrison is the only one that's got ah his his medicals need to check out, really, that that could be worrisome, I think, as far as the top guys. And I actually forgot to mention earlier.
00:38:15
Speaker
He's coming off the ACL as well. I know people have mocked him through Green Man. I liked him a lot coming out, especially coming off of his last year. In the summer, he didn't get a lot of talk or hype, but like he played really well last year, actually, for ECU. Even though he didn't have big interception production, was really locked down corner even last year. And I think, had he not told him it was the ACL, he probably would be a top 15 pick anyway.
00:38:39
Speaker
but as, as we've talked about before, uh, in our chats and stuff like that, the, the Packers tend to be really conserved, skew really conservative as far as injuries, guys coming into the draft, coming off injuries. So I don't, even if he's there at 23, I don't see them taking him at 23. I mean, I, if they did, I'd be happy of course. Yeah. Um, cause I think he has Pro Bowl potential. but I don't think you can have his own Antonio Carmardi senior basically. Yeah. Right. That's a flashback for a lot of kids. If you don't understand the reference.
00:39:09
Speaker
but I mean, he's like, it's so just under 6'2", 190 pounds. He has like 30 too much arms. He's going to run probably fail well if he runs. I don't know if he'll run, yeah but he's he's a fast guy. He's an athletic, freaky athletic guy too. So yeah, really fluid mover. Yeah. Like a guy that big. Yeah. Yeah. He is for sure. But yeah, I don't think the Packers would take him at 23. If he sips the second round, I mean, maybe, but I don't, maybe you do like the Jordy Nelson for him kind of, or like the Christian Watson kind of thing. Yeah.
00:39:33
Speaker
Yeah, right maybe but I kind of if you on them doing that just cuz like I said, they're they're they're really iffy about guys coming off injuries Yeah, especially with the the current group of guys with injuries, you know dry air and all that so I don't i don't think they might be like Okay, let's go into training camp with two guys that who could be injured and or may not be able to play start training camp type of thing You know that I don't think they're gonna be like they're gonna be a too keen on that The only good thing for Revell is he got hurt kind of early. yeah like It was what late September, early October, he got injured. Yeah, it was like week four, I think it was. he got yeah so Yeah, so hypothetically, yeah he could be back sooner. than It all depends, though. Is it just an ACL or is it you know other stuff, too, the dreaded other damage? Yeah. Supposedly, it was just the ACL. He should be good good to go for training camp, but i mean he's going to miss
Conclusion and Speaker Sign-off
00:40:17
Speaker
rookie camp. He's going to probably miss most it basically all of OTAs.
00:40:22
Speaker
You know, stuff like that so some of the packers will be like kind of um very very But yeah, no, just want to say, thanks for coming on, Brian. i Like I said, there there is no red dot on his back or anything like that. Don't worry, folks, he is coming on. And we always appreciate you having you on. But Brian, like before we go, please let everyone know where they can find your work, where what you're doing. I know this is your busy time. of Well, if you're doing drafts, if you're doing good draft scouting, every part of the year is busy. But especially as we get into this, but you know the home stretch ahead of time, you know where can we find your work?
00:40:58
Speaker
Yeah, of course, or obviously just on X, you know, BM, AFI, NFL. I've been writing for Gridiron Heroics. I've been working on my final position rankings. I have my quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers and tight ends out. I'm still working on the offensive line. and I was kind of waiting for some of the measurements to come in and just to see some of the senior bowl film and stuff just to really solidify that whole line.
00:41:23
Speaker
excuse me because it's just a weirdly weird if, I know thiss this is not what we're talking about, but really weird old line class this year. There's a ton of like college tackles who are probably going to play guard in NFL. Maybe some might even play center. So it's just a really weird class. And just, I wanted to see some of August measurements and see them against, uh, quote unquote NFL competition at the senior mall stuff. So, um, the the offensive line but list should be coming out probably next week or something like that.
00:41:49
Speaker
And then, of course, I'll be writing for the Cheez-It TV draft guide. This year, I'll be doing edge rushers, and then i'll have my I'll do my feature article as well. Everyone's favorite list of the guys who won't be Packers. But I've i've so far, fingers crossed, two years in real life and 100% on it, so.
00:42:08
Speaker
That's just those two things. I'm also on Blue Sky, but I'm not there as much. I'm trying to think of anything else. I try and post clips when I can. Everybody likes looking at clips of prospects. I've just been too busy kind of lately with senior bull stuff going on and all that stuff. But once senior bull ends, I'll try and get back to posting clips. So yeah, that's about it. I can thank you. Right on.
00:42:32
Speaker
No, thank you so much for coming on. Always put up the bat signal and Brian always always answers the call for us. So again, this is the first of our position group check-ins for the 2025 NFL Draft, the draft that's being held in Green Bay itself. So that's exciting. The Packers will pick 23rd and Brian's just giving you a good list of names who could be you know that 23rd pick.
00:42:56
Speaker
add 32 to that for their second round. So is that 50, 55th pick or whatever. But yeah, thank you, Brian. Thank you for joining us. And as we always say, Go Pack Go and Aloha.