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Ope Season 3 Episode 47 Mike and Dustys Tight End Adventure
38 Plays7 days ago
Aloha and welcome to another episode of OPE! This week we are joined by PackADay host and acmepackingco writer Dusty Evely! We continue our weekly Draft primer by discussing the Tight End position! We talk the current state of the group, potential free agent additions and what prospects fit the Packers mold!
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Transcript
Intro
Podcast Introduction
00:00:21
Speaker
Aloha and welcome back to another episode of the Ahana Packers Edition podcast. We continue our pre-draft positional previews. I'm going to get it right one of these days.
Guest Introduction: Dusty Evely
00:00:30
Speaker
oh We have Dusty Evely to talk tight ends.
00:00:33
Speaker
Dusty, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us amidst.
00:00:38
Speaker
Parenting. Parenting is happening. And we're so gracious. Dusty is here.
Appreciation for Dusty's Presence
00:00:42
Speaker
And we hope that we'll we'll have a clean 45 minutes to an hour with him. But, Dusty, thank you for coming on. but yeah Fingers crossed. No, thanks for having me on, guys. I missed you last year, unfortunately. I was... Did not have the time or energy to do any draft stuff. So Joe reached out last year and I was like, dude, unless you want me to lie for an hour straight and say I watch these guys, I can't do it. So I'm glad to be back. I mean, Joe, I haven't seen you in a couple of years.
00:01:06
Speaker
Mike, I feel like I've not talked to you in like three years, brother. So it is it is good to be back talking to you guys again. Always, always to have you And this time I didn't have to kidnap the kids or hold anybody for ransom. you If you want to kidnap my kid now, Joe, brother, that is your own problem now.
00:01:23
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, my bank account hurts a little bit from trying to get you on, but you know, no, a Dusty, it's always great to have you on because you and Sarah are, are pretty much the same when it comes to those things.
00:01:38
Speaker
This is the only show you'll come on and do draft stuff. Yeah. but Sarah so we always jokes it's her one day out of the year and that's it. i talked to her about that last week. was like, Sarah, I've got Oana coming up. She's like, i think mine's coming up too. i got to look at some prospects. And then i'm after this, I'm done. and next week but So yeah, but it's great to have you guys on because I know that you do a lot of work with the film stuff, film side of things. So to get your perspective on things is really great. And, you know, we always appreciate you having you come on.
00:02:08
Speaker
even though it does hurt the bank count. I swear the checks in the mail and, you know, all that good stuff. Tigers tickets there. Just hype to talk a little ball, man. Hype to talk some ball. Tight end group is interesting this year after looking at some of these guys.
Current Tight End Lineup Discussion
00:02:23
Speaker
I'm i'm excited. i'm excited yeahp But as Joe mentioned, we'll go over the current rooms. So as is right now, the... The Packers are rolling into next season with the three at the top being Tucker, Luke Musgrave, and Ben Sims. So, you know, I do believe Tucker has taken away the tight end one role, especially because he offers you, you know, both sides of the position in terms of being a pass catcher and a blocker.
00:02:48
Speaker
Luke is trying to get, you know, reintegrated after having two seasons, kind of lost to just really unfortunate injuries, like just freak of the freak injuries.
00:03:01
Speaker
And Sims has proven to be a solid blocker, but that's kind of it. You know, he has a couple of those plays where you're like, oh, he can catch it. But it's like he's and he's wide open, but it's kind of the whole, oh, he's wide open because no one cares that 89 is running up the seam. But hey,
00:03:18
Speaker
I appreciate that he makes the plays that are there. And then also in tow, they have two... undrafted free agent slash street free agent signings in, uh, Messiah Swinson, who had one of the more roundabout routes onto off and back onto the Packers roster last year.
00:03:35
Speaker
And, Johnny Lumpkin, who I believe took Swinson spot and then was released when Swinson was signed back to the practice squad.
Potential Moves for Tight End Position
00:03:42
Speaker
So, that's kind of where you're at, at the tight end four and five spots.
00:03:46
Speaker
Tyler Davis was not tendered. So, It's the top three. And then really, if they do pick up anyone in the draft. And as far as free agency goes, you're at the point where oh the list of names is only for draft sickos like me, who may or may not have liked certain ones of these guys one year, several years ago.
00:04:10
Speaker
And of course, if we ever bring Big Dog back to the Packers, but yeah, between the Joe dusty, anyone on the free agency list who peaks your interest in any manner of speaking at all.
00:04:22
Speaker
Like it'd have to be low money. Right. Cause we're talking like yeah three ceiling. Like I really like Mo Ali Cox. Like I'd be like for like, again, tight end three money, not like top of the market tight end money, which were past those days. So he's not getting that anyway.
00:04:35
Speaker
I really like Mo Ali Cox. Like I think he'd be a really nice fit in this offense. And then aside from that is, I mean, you looking down it's, Felipe Franks. like I liked what John Fitzpatrick brought, so if they wanted to like bring him back as your blocking dude next year, like I'd be fine with that. But yeah, I'm i'm looking right now. it's i don know Do I want Nick Vanette? No, I don't. Deside DeGuarra is out there. you know We've seen that game. so Moelle Cox is is my dude, for sure.
00:05:02
Speaker
And you know I agree a little bit on that. i And I was trying to look at age-wise, what are the Packers willing to bring in? Because they've already got you know relatively young guys with both craft and Musgrave.
00:05:17
Speaker
We know craft, unless something major happens is not going anywhere. Musgrave is the question mark there. Can he come back from his multi injuries?
00:05:28
Speaker
Can he be what the Packers hoped he was when they took him in the second round? I hope so. You know, I was kind of excited to see when, see what he could do when he was drafted. But unfortunately,
00:05:39
Speaker
And kind of like what we talked about with the Jair stuff, it's not like it's the same thing over again. It's freak injuries that are happening. You know, would have expected a lacerated kidney out of the kid?
00:05:51
Speaker
and I mean, that who would, but it happens. And then i think last year, what was it? It was a, uh, like an ankle or whatever that didn't even look that bad when he got it. And then it was just like, you're kind of like, Oh, okay. He rolled up. Maybe he'll miss next week. And then in the post game, the floor is like, yeah, he's out for a while. And you're kind of like, Oh, okay. Like, yeah. Yeah.
00:06:14
Speaker
just a punch really its yeah I think what they're needing is somebody that can fit that Musgrave mold, but have tendencies of a craft. So kind of a mixture of both.
00:06:26
Speaker
And I'm not seeing that really in in agency. I mean, there are a couple of guys that are like, Oh, you know, kind of like my Mike said, Being a draft guy, you see the name and you're like, oh, yeah, I remember that guy. i remember liking him. and Irv Smith is still out there and he's only 26. Like, oh, man, maybe still some problems there. Ian Thomas still is in 30.
00:06:46
Speaker
And I was just thinking of that one. Ian Thomas, i was like, man, I really love that kid coming out of college. And it's like, now he doesn't do anything. and He was in Carolina for too long.
00:06:59
Speaker
and Right. So was it Carolina destroyed him or was he just not – you know Could he not make that conversion over? so Dusty just said one of the guys that I was thinking of, Irv Smith, just because of the age-wise.
00:07:12
Speaker
i' I'd love to bring Mercedes Lewis back, but I think his time here is pretty well done. And, you know, shits and giggles, maybe be Hayden Hurst.
00:07:23
Speaker
But... You know, other than that, the one guy I'll talk about is Messiah Swinson. i think the Packers are really high on him. i Obviously, because they did bring him back, he's, what, 6'7", 6'8", or something like that. He's really tall guy.
00:07:41
Speaker
So maybe they're hoping they can do with him what they were doing with Mercedes and be that blocking tight end that can, you know, get the one catch every so often or whatever. Or maybe they're hoping they can get an all-around guy with him.
00:07:54
Speaker
But when you see the Packers invest into a player like that where, okay, well, he was on he was with us. We tried to get him to practice spot. It didn't work out, but we ended up bringing him back anyway.
00:08:05
Speaker
it just kind of shows that they have an interest in him, and it'll be – I'll keep an eye on what they do with him going forward. Yep. So that's the room as it is where free agency is. And now we turn to Dusty. Dusty.
00:08:22
Speaker
So we've kind of just been going day one, day two, day three. Who are the guys that kind of would fit what, you know, what the Packers have done with their tight ends, particularly, you know, the past couple years, especially after the additions of Musgrave and Kraft.
00:08:34
Speaker
Yeah. So I know there's always the joke that Green Bay will draft a wide receiver when and when will be when it happens. I'll believe it happened and I may still not believe it happened.
00:08:47
Speaker
But Dusty, if the right guy fell in round one and the Packers were to take a tight end round one, who would that player be in your opinion? I mean, I think there are two dudes I'd be willing to go around one for. And even then like round one tight end, i don't know.
00:09:01
Speaker
But if either of these two guys fell, be like, cool. And I have no idea where they're supposed to go. I've not looked at any mock drafts or anything yet. I'm a bad person to have on draft shows. I'll tell you that much right now. Uh, Tyler Warren out of Penn State, who I think could use some use on blocking, but such a dynamic receiver it's one more like he's like Musgrave plus where Musgrave was more of a receiver and the Packers tried to use him as a blocker and he was fine.
00:09:23
Speaker
feel like Warren is that, but better in a lot of respects, healthier, more explosive, say better contact balance because it'll fall down when he catches the ball. And then i this is, I'm not saying this just because Mike's here.
00:09:37
Speaker
i really like Colston Loveland, man. I really like Colston Loveland. I saw his name. I saw he's from Michigan. I was like, I want to hate this man so much. saw his picture. I want to hate this man. He's from Idaho. I want to hate him so much.
00:09:50
Speaker
He is of of all of the guys on here. And I watched, I think I watched eight guys, like for at least four games of like eight of these guys. Of all of them, Loveland is like, feels like the most well-rounded right now in terms of like what he can give you.
00:10:04
Speaker
as a blocker, as intelligent he is as a blocker, just relentless. And then also like catching yards after the catch. like He's a pretty dynamic receiver and also doesn doesn't want to go down. i feel like like Warren is a better receiver, but there are lots of holes, I think, in his blocking. Loveland, he will get caught off balance sometimes, but I think he's better as a blocker now than any of the other dudes I watched in this class. So I think...
00:10:27
Speaker
I don't think they would go... i think if if Warren falls, I see the Packers going, all right, dude, we'll go Warren. I don't know if they'd take a guy like Loveland, but he fits exactly what the Packers want to do. I feel like maybe put a little more bulk. I don't know how big he is. He plays a little skinny at times, I think, but he seems like he would fit directly into this Packers offense.
00:10:46
Speaker
So, yeah, Loveland... So, he weighed in at the combine at 248, and because he is, like, a very, like... I know he's actually... I know he and... He and Warren are the same height. They're both 6'6".
00:10:59
Speaker
But Loveland, you know he came in at like 235 to Michigan or something like that. And there was a joke on a bunch of the different like Michigan podcasts. They're like, do not let him play over 240 because it's like, that's, you know, we don't, we, Michigan hasn't been blessed with a lot of receiving threats. And they're like, if you screw up our number one receiving option because you try to turn him into a 260 pound tight end, we're going to have bones to pick kind of thing. So, But yeah, like you you saw it as a freshman and you know he comes into the Ohio State game that year, runs it out and up off play action, catches a huge touchdown in that game.
00:11:37
Speaker
Michigan like didn't throw... end zone fades or jump balls. And, you know, at the end of his freshman season, they're like, we're throwing jump balls to this kid and stuff. And then the national championship game against Washington, he makes the big play to break the game open and like secure the win for Michigan. He catches that post that's maybe like a foot behind him, but he just snags that.
00:11:58
Speaker
It's a foot behind and a foot high. And he just pulls that thing in. And Shavink, you know, we had him on and I went on his, one of his, One of his shows.
00:12:09
Speaker
And we talked about how, okay, like they haven't brought in a receiver yet in free agency, the receiver class, by the time Green Bay's picking, there's probably not going to be a guy that you're like, oh, yeah, like, that's a definite impact day one guy.
00:12:24
Speaker
And really between Loveland or Warren, you're kind of like, that's a guy that, you know, kind of like how they were force-feeding Musgrave snaps early in his career. you can Yeah, you can, if nothing else, those guys will catch balls for you. Yeah, you can do that with these two guys. And it helps that you have an established Tucker craft as you're like...
00:12:43
Speaker
Yes, like he's obviously a good, really good receiver too, but you know he can post up as the tight end and be like, this is our blocking tight end. We know LaFleur wants to live in 12. He can be super multiple.
00:12:55
Speaker
And... something that Joe brought up before with Warren that we'll get into in a sec, but both of these guys can function as your, you know, your quote unquote move blocker, play a little fullback, play that wing tight end position where, you know, it's, you're not, you're not asking him to survive on an Island kind of thing. You're asking them for a chip or a fake block and get out on a route kind of thing. And, you know, the good thing about him is neither one of them projects as like an A plus blocker, but they give a plus effort.
00:13:24
Speaker
And that one, that's what opens them up later on on past plays is because it's like, okay, this guy's not great, but he's going to try really hard. He might get his butt handed to him, but he gives the effort and that helps sell him for play action And he also seems like both these guys, like I think Warren to a lesser extent because he's just, I don't think he's as polished there, but both of those top guys, like they give effort. They also look like they know what they're supposed to be doing. Even if they can't quite do it. And I think,
00:13:52
Speaker
For some of the guys we'll get to a little later on. That's an issue I have with a handful of guys in this class. is like once And it was an issue with with craft. So i'm not saying it's like it would kill you. Like early in k craft's career. was like once the picture moves on you, they got to a spot like I'm here.
00:14:07
Speaker
Okay, the picture's moved. Now what? And both of these guys at the very least seem like they know what they're supposed to do even if they can't always do it right now. They understand what first color is, what second level combo is and stuff. So it's a huge deal.
00:14:20
Speaker
And... Joe and I were kind of talking about it while we were waiting for Dusty to come on. but And Dusty kind of alluded it to it as well. But, Joe, one thing you brought up about Warren is that he's a little – we don't want to say that he's stuck in a certain role, but the way Penn State used him, you're kind of like, okay, is he a tight end? Or they would Green Bay be like, okay, he's the Guara kind of thing? And we can kind of get into that now from what you were seeing on film a lot.
00:14:47
Speaker
Right, and I didn't do a big deep dive on Warren because, like I've explained before in past episodes, I always try to look for the guys that are going to be like other places have them ranked as like low level.
00:14:59
Speaker
So I want to look at those guys more, see if there's anything. So I did do a few watch throughs on Warren before coming through. And the one thing that just kept popping off base was...
00:15:12
Speaker
that they were using him more out of the fullback role than they were out of the tight end role. So I know he's, what, 6'6 and 258 something like that. But I just, it it was surprising me that, okay, well, he's lined up as fullback.
00:15:28
Speaker
Okay, he's running the ball like a fullback. Okay, he's doing this like a fullback. So is he going to be able to just maintain that role as a tight end in and the league, or is he going to need to be able to bump around And, you know, I was kind of mentioning to Mike before the show that is he going to be like, a shit, I just forgot his name again. The the guy with the 49ers, Kyle Juszczyk.
00:15:54
Speaker
Juszczyk. You know, is is he going to be that type of guy where, you know, he can play the fullback position, he can play as a tight end, but he's got really no spot of his own for it.
00:16:07
Speaker
Now, athletic-wise, you know, he looks great. Like you guys were saying, he he's got the ability to block, but, you know, he's he's got to refine it a little bit more.
00:16:18
Speaker
He's the playmaker type. I believe Jake said that when, after Mike had lost power that episode, that, uh... that Warren would probably be the guy that he'd take in the first round.
00:16:34
Speaker
And so, you know, I can see all that. I just wonder about the usage when he gets in the NFL. I also have to say that I wonder if watching Penn State is what gave LaFleur the idea of running the Kraft Bush.
00:16:51
Speaker
where you see Kraft come under center and take the snap on short yardage. Because I was seeing a lot of that with Warren, with Penn State, that if they needed short yardage, threw their big body tight end, fullback, whatever you wanted to call him, under center and had him run like a modified wildcat that way.
00:17:11
Speaker
So, i mean, I like the kid. he He's got a lot of ability. I just wonder how he's going to fit going forward in the NFL. Are they going to be able to transition him and say, hey, you're a tight end now.
00:17:24
Speaker
Forget everything you did with this fullback stuff. You're a tight end. Or will he have to do the move back and forth to get his full potential out there?
00:17:35
Speaker
oh Colson, you know, you guys have pretty much said this everything that you can about him. And I'll just add that the one thing that Mike and I were also talking about, and this goes for the whole tight end class,
00:17:49
Speaker
Some of these guys are good at being the lead blocker, but can't inline block to save their life. And others can inline block, but they can't lead block to save their life.
00:18:00
Speaker
So, yeah you know, it's one or the other. you can't they Whereas a lot of the old tight ends that you would see, they could do it all. You know, the it was old films that you'd watch from the 80s and 90s where you'd see tight ends blocking better than your tackles.
00:18:16
Speaker
and Because that was their job. So and I know Mike and I were talking about it and Mike said, you know, well, that's the type of NFL we're in. And that's the truth. You know, we're getting to the age where, you know, where our parents were like, oh, well, you know, back in my day, this is how this guy would do it and Well, now we're at that point.
00:18:33
Speaker
I hate to say it, but now we're at that point. They they don't play like they used to, but. Both guys are great. i kind of I agree with Dusty that I'm not one of those that like to put a round grade on players because you never know.
00:18:48
Speaker
i mean, if you asked all the experts last year, Edger and Cooper was supposed to be a first round pick. Well, he fell to what? mid roundunde Mid-second round before the Packers finally took him. So, you know, I tried not to put round grades, but Colson, Warren are two of them.
00:19:06
Speaker
Another one that probably fits up there as maybe that could go into the first is Mason Taylor out of LSU because he fits that bill a little bit with them too where he's not really – you know, he can do one type of blocking, but he can't do the other, but he's a terrific – Hands catcher, he will have an occasional drop. Game speed looks good. Blocking form, okay, but ability is meh.
00:19:35
Speaker
And the only other issue that I had with him was that a lot of the games that I was watching, he had false start issues. so So he's got to pay attention to the snap count and, you know, be a stone wall pretty well. so But that's what I got with those guys.
00:19:56
Speaker
Yep. So, and think... Here's where Mike tells me I'm all wrong. No, no, no. And I think just getting back to what, you know, we've kind of brought up about Warren and Loveland and Dusty, I'm sure you can go into this too, is we touched on a little bit, but either of these guys, this would be a force multiplier off of what Kraft brings to the table.
00:20:16
Speaker
Slightly, in a sense, insurance for Musgrave. And I know that a lot of people be like, you're taking an insurance player in the first round, but, you know... then you can play 13. Or you can play 12 with you know Musgrave or Loveland slash Warren and as a true split-out receiver kind of thing.
00:20:35
Speaker
And so LeFleur has always stated that if he had it his way, he would stay in 12 and have the the fluidity to move guys around. And that's where I do think, like...
00:20:46
Speaker
having more of a receiving tight end, but one who understands blocking schemes and gives the effort. I think, you know, that would just allow him to utilize a lot of his condensed formations and, power look, you know, his power scheme looks that, you know, open up into his illusion of complexity and, you know, create seams in the defense and all. But, yeah, like,
00:21:10
Speaker
you know Dusty kind of alluded to it. These are two guys that, yeah, if the draft falls a certain way, you're kind of like, I see the vision, right, Dusty? Yeah, well, and like some of these guys, i mean, and Joe, I kind of said something to you, I think, earlier today. were kind of a message on some of this stuff, this tight end class.
00:21:25
Speaker
And like you said, maybe it is sign of the times and where these guys are in terms of like, well, these guys come up playing seven on seven. And what what are they playing? are they playing more spread in college and all of that stuff, depending on where they are. So many of these guys profile better as like detached receivers. And this is where like some of the draft stuff for me, I get into an issue of like,
00:21:44
Speaker
So much of this comes down to mentality. So much of this says comes down to what's the interview process? How coachable are these guys? Are they not doing these things because they weren't asked to do them or because they can't or because they don't want to? And how like the success of the next level so much is like comes from that. What kind of person are they more than anything?
00:22:02
Speaker
So it's hard to tell. But so many of these guys, I think of like think of like the guys and how the Packers want to run their offense. And Mike, you touched on it, but the Packers don't want to even with Musgrave, right? They gro they draft Musgrave and Kraft.
00:22:13
Speaker
That thought was Musgrave is detach him from he's a big slot, detach him from the formation. They weren't he weren't doing that. He was playing in line. He split zone block in like day one in Green Bay. like They want these guys, if you're a tight end in Green Bay, they want you in line. Like said, if they're running 12, they're running balanced formations, they're running...
00:22:29
Speaker
that YY wing stuff where you got the two guys next to each other and you can game that up where you got one guy's more of a receiver, but you're going to have to block in this system, whether you're split zone blocking or you're holding the guy off, trying to hold them off at the point of attack, you don't to be a plus, but they're going to ask you to do it. You're not, that's where like some of these guys I look at, like, like Elijah Roro that I watched and was like, okay, he's not, this isn't going work.
00:22:50
Speaker
Like he's, he is, he is He is only a receiver. if you ask him to align up If you ask him to line up in line, he can't hold the point of attack. He's lost split zone stuff. He is a pretty dynamic receiver.
00:23:03
Speaker
you That's not what Green Bay is looking for. like do you need you can be They want you to be a dynamic receiver if you can, you need at least like vaguely know how to block and be willing to do that.
00:23:13
Speaker
And some of these guys, like they are, and again, so much of this thing comes back to not being asked to do this. Would a row or someone be fine doing that? But when they asked him to do that in Miami, like he just simply was not very good at it. So looking it from like Packers perspective, you could like a lot of these guys are this, this guy'd be a tremendous, like big slot Packers are going to ask him to do that.
00:23:34
Speaker
And so it's which one of these guys can like, can play in line and has shown that they can play in line. And so when these guys, are dynamic receivers and don't fit that part. That's why Gunner Helm, I saw like Gunner Helm was getting good reviews.
00:23:47
Speaker
I don't know that guy can block in line in the league. So I kind of just marked him off the board. I was like, okay, well, Green Bay is probably not interested in this guy, which- Right, right. I mean, to some extent, that's kind of like it- It narrows down the field a bit, right? Like if you think, okay, we've got like the three or four guys in this class. There's a lot of guys in this class that catch.
00:24:05
Speaker
We've got like three or four guys in this field as the Packers that we think would be a good fit with us. And one of them we may take taken in the first round. Well, maybe you take that guy in the first round. you know it's just it's so It's kind of a weird class overall. So I rambled for enough there. One of you guys talked now. well no and And the other thing about the inline blocking and all that is,
00:24:24
Speaker
It also goes to show how physical they are down the field too. yeah And that was another thing that I saw that was really like, well, none of these guys are going to do anything better than Musgrave because what's the problem that we have with Musgrave is once he gets in the ball in his hand, he's a playmaker.
00:24:40
Speaker
But he goes down, well, you know, Musgrave has the issue of going down just by the turf monster. But, I mean, yeah it's single contact. And that's what a lot of these guys were. We're single contact go-downs. We're used to tight ends.
00:24:55
Speaker
and And Tucker even fits that mold. He's going to run somebody over. He's going to take out two or three guys. just He got mad this past year because he got pack tackled by DB in space. He's livid on the sidelines.
00:25:08
Speaker
And, you know, what was his comments after that? You know, when I'm on the field, i I'm pretending I'm going to go burn their house down or their childhood house down.
00:25:18
Speaker
And, you know, that's the type of that's the type of tight end that you're looking for is that mentality. and And a lot of these guys that I watched that was the single contact. Yeah, they had a moment here or there where the DB that went to go tackle him took the wrong angle. So they were able to shove them off and go a little bit further.
00:25:38
Speaker
But once they had somebody go in there and put full contact into them, you know, they were pretty much done for. So, and a Royal, like you said, dynamic. He reminds me a little bit of Noah Fant a few years ago, coming out of Iowa, where it was the same thing, you know, tremendous down the field, stretch the field, could make plays.
00:26:00
Speaker
But when they lined him up in line, you might as well just not do anything because he couldn't do it. So is it because they're asked to or they can't do it because they can't do it?
00:26:12
Speaker
Or is it they can't do it because they don't want to You know, it's over like a royal is like a royal comes through and it's like he sees who he's supposed to block and then he just whiffs on him like too many times on a royal stuff. It's like he he seemed like he knew what he was supposed to do and then like wasn't within two yards of the guy.
00:26:29
Speaker
supposed to hit so to your point is that then is that an effort thing is that like he's second guessing himself is that he didn't have enough reps he was unsure i don't know but like he just remarked that was one of my big notes on Arroyo like this guy can't can't line up blocks in space like incapable of lining up like I had I think I had like unplayable day one uh maybe maybe he grows into something but like that's it's a core part you have to do to be in this Packers offense and like he just time and time again showed that he just simply cannot do it Yup. And so that's where, and I, i do think that element is what separates, like you said, Dusty, maybe not for every team, but for Green Bay, that's what really does separate Loveland and Warren above is like, you, like we've all said, you know what you're getting as a receiver from both guys.
00:27:13
Speaker
But at least on the blocking side, you're like, that guy gets it. Is he great at it? Not necessarily, but he's going to try to be great at it. And, you know, outcomes, you know, outcomes may vary, but at least you know that, like, he's got it between the ears and the effort is going to be there from both of them.
00:27:30
Speaker
But, you know, guys who, for one reason or another, who don't meet one of those criteria, who are you looking at kind of more in that next tier of guys, Dusty? And as opposed to, you know, is that anyone we've talked about? about im umm happy to come from a school that I know very well.
00:27:45
Speaker
why and No, actually. So mine my, and I guess this is, I mean, I do, i listen. All right, that's the end of the show. We're done. I was gonna let you have him, Joe. I will say my my guy I've got my eye on for, I mean, a but middle round, I guess probably flying in the face of everything I just said that like certainly could use some work, but is intriguing is Harold Fannin, Harold Fannin Jr. on a bowling group.
00:28:11
Speaker
Like he's young. I think he weighed in pretty like he's he's like six, four, two 30. And I think he weighed in less than that, if I'm not mistaken at the at the combine or something. It's really funny. I don't know how much of Bowling Green you watched. That offense runs through Fana. 241 is what laid in there. Okay, so he was up. So he was up. Okay.
00:28:30
Speaker
Still pretty small. They run the offense through Fana. It's hysterical. they have like There's plays that are simply designed. that like He didn't get the ball for a while, so then they give the ball to him to throw.
00:28:41
Speaker
They've got the funkiest formations I saw all of last year. all designed to get the ball in fans' hands. he had one where he was lined up 15 yards behind the running back, offset, like a punter, to pitch so could get a head full steam.
00:28:55
Speaker
So, like, you're not going to do that stuff in the league. He runs very strange. It's like at times like his legs kind of kick out from his body or something. I said he runs like Forrest Gump. That's the way I describe it because yeah it you can't describe what it is, but you watch him and you're like, something's off. There's something going on here. Yeah.
00:29:18
Speaker
I know I've watched men run and this is not how most men run. It was almost like, like Edger and Cooper. If you guys watch Edger and Cooper last year, you know, the tape on hand, A&M, it's like, I don't, what's be pre-snap.
00:29:29
Speaker
Why is he standing like that? And he had this stance where like his knees were like under his chin and his legs were jutted out. And I, and when, as soon as I noticed that I could not notice it, it was the same thing with fan and that's just weird. Like his limbs are moving like as if they're trying to get away from his body.
00:29:45
Speaker
at times, like away from his core, which is really strange. And so like the the system he was in was weird. He's clearly the best player on the field. I kept hearing people say, we had like 1500 yards receiving last year. it's because everyone else on the team was bad.
00:29:56
Speaker
Like they just, they force fed him the ball. that but But also he's young. Talk about like, he's small, but there's a willingness to block. There's an understanding. I think his route running can use some work. He is like, there's zero nuance yeah against zone, zero nuance against zone.
00:30:11
Speaker
But he's a like, he seems like he is trying. And that's that's another thing with the interview, like how this stuff comes up in the interview where they ask him to work on, what are you doing? All of that stuff. But I think as from a physical profile, and I don't think as Raz's Raz was what 7.57 I have so like, and most of that I think was height weight based just because he's a little undersized for the position.
00:30:32
Speaker
I would love to see him agree Bay. It's like, again, mid round pick when he gets the ball in his hands, just it's absolutely a bowling ball. Oh my gosh. What is down the field stuff too? Like some those back shoulder catches, I guess catch radius is absolutely insane. So I think it would not a year one guy. Like, I don't think that's a guy day one, he's going to be in here, but if you don't,
00:30:53
Speaker
but believe in Musgrave as the Packers. If you don't actually believe in Musgrave, like, are we going to draft Fannin in like round four, something like that? A special teamer, like special teamer Supreme, probably from day one.
00:31:04
Speaker
We're going to sit on him next year. We start rolling them out. When Musgrave's gone, he's tight end too. Like, I would not hate that plan at all. Like, I think he'd be a lot of fun. And I think where everything that he could do, he'd be this long snapper for the Packers. and I think he comes into play where like, if they take him day two, you're kind of like there, there he's day one, that role that they wanted to go to be like, he really is your fullback. Yeah, he's a better version.
00:31:34
Speaker
And he's you know he's only six three but he has like 32-plus-inch arms, which is kind of, you know he's a little, he has a funky frame. And like you said, Dusty, it you look at Bowling Green's receiving stats from last year, and it's just flat-out comical.
00:31:48
Speaker
he So he has more receptions than the next three guys on, if you go down the stat page. They're giving him jet sweeps on a regular basis there. He has more receiving guy more receiving yards than the next five guys, or four guys, almost the next five guys on the roster.
00:32:07
Speaker
More touchdowns than the next one, two, three, four, four, six. Yeah, like you just, it's one of those, you just start adding up the stats and you're just like, oh my God, like.
00:32:18
Speaker
and that was I think I got through one quarter of one game and I was like, oh, he's clearly the best player on this team. They just built the offense out of this. man What's hilarious is he's that much to that extent. And then you read like, and I always look at mid-major guys. What do they do against their best competition?
00:32:33
Speaker
Penn State, 11 catches, 137 yards and a touchdown. He threw a pass in that game too. he threw a bomb in that game. Texas A&M, eight receptions, 145 yards ye with a 65-yard touchdown, I think was that.
00:32:48
Speaker
Old Dominion, 12 catches, 193 yards, two touchdowns. Akron, nine receptions, 135 yards. With the bowl game, like Arkansas State, he had like 20 catches or something. 17 catches with 213 yards and a touchdown. And some of those were legitimately just like he was running in front of the quarterback and he pitched it to him and he just ran through the line. It goes back to...
00:33:12
Speaker
Charles Barkley, he always, hate he's he says all the time, he's like, you you know, you you go into the film session and they say that, you know, this guy's got this one thing.
00:33:23
Speaker
Don't fall for it or don't give it up. And you still let it happen. Like I said, I love seeing mid-major guys who are able to do their thing against the, you know, not necessarily the top of Div 1 or the the the power, however many you want to say, are the power 3, 4, 5, 2 or whatever, you know, whatever, whatever way you prescribe to it these days. But the fact that he went up against higher... so but yeah they turn out The first game I turned on was Penn State. Because I'd say the same thing. It's like, okay, what's he doing against? like the And again, clearly, they built the plane on him. I think that throw was like the second snaps. Like, they knew they wanted to do.
00:34:02
Speaker
And i mean, that was a pretty good defense, if I remember correctly. Penn State's defense was Especially in the secondary. He torched them. Just absolutely torched a very good team last year. and And it wasn't even like...
00:34:14
Speaker
as much as they set the table for him, it wasn't even necessarily like they're running, like run these two guys to set up like pick play. It's just like, it's just like, it's just like, win, beat that man. Yeah. yeah like gotcha They're, they're cocky. They're like, Oh, it's just, you know, how good can this kid be? We're going to play our defense play mad. And it's like, Oh no. Like, and they just went through, went down the row of like, put that coverage, got put the best linebacker on him. Nope.
00:34:40
Speaker
Put the best safety on him. Nope. Put the best quarter on him. Okay, I guess we got to start bracket covering. Oh, he split that? Oh, shit. oh Yeah, they did everything. They got to stop that man, and they could not stop that.
00:34:51
Speaker
Yeah, and it really does get into the whole... He's one of those guys that... Oh, I was just going to, he's one of those guys that if he were doing the same thing on a different team, like Alabama. That's what I was, yeah. If he if he transferred to Alabama or something, yeah. Yeah. yeah It's that, you know, he would easily be a top 10 pick just because of what he was doing on the field. And I agree. That was one of the things that I put in my notes is he's a multifaceted weapon because no matter what they did with him, he thrived with it.
00:35:25
Speaker
So I would love to been a fly on the wall in one of his meetings just to see what his attitude, not see what he was like. You know, it doesn't have that Tucker craft in him where I'm going to burn their childhood house down is how I feel.
00:35:40
Speaker
You know, you might'd see him you'd see him hit some crack blocks and stuff with a, yeah like you'd hear him some crack blocks and have him split zone block. Like when they asked him to block, you could tell there was effort and malice behind it, which I enjoyed. And it's sort of the same thing. And,
00:35:54
Speaker
you know, we bring up Tucker craft and it's kind of the same thing where like, you know, mid-major Tucker was at div two, but it's like, he was the best player. clear He was by far the best player on either offense kind of thing.
00:36:06
Speaker
And so like you said, say that we just got his quarterback at Iowa. So we're hoping that it was like the second best player. Repeat Joe by a mile. The best player. He did get the ball to him, Joe, so that's a good thing. He's got to go ahead.
00:36:21
Speaker
He didn't screw that part of the playbook up. He was smart player. You know where your fluttered. So, and that is one of those where In the case of, like like you said, Dusty, if they were able to get him in round four, that's like a jump up and down, like we're streaking around the house yelling things. Or even like round three. Give him three. exactly. yeah if you If he's... And, you know, you hear murmurs around like, oh, where's this guy getting talked about and stuff?
00:36:48
Speaker
Depending on how the board fell, you could see LeFleur like... Going to Goode and being like, okay, yeah, we're not going to use like our main second round pick, but like is there anything we can do to like get up higher in round three? Because I know the Deguara thing didn't work, but this guy's better than him. What was that kid that everybody was pounding the table for a few years back?
00:37:13
Speaker
Last year was Ben Sennett, wasn't it? gilani Yeah, Jelani Wood, yeah, because he was just an absolute freak, yeah. yeah And this guy is like... 10 times better than what Jelani Wood was putting on the paper. Well, everyone last year with the Senate, and this guy is basically a better Ben Senate, I think. and Right.
00:37:29
Speaker
And yeah there's a point to it where he and senate he's not the athlete Senate tested as, but right yeah there's almost a part of it where I'm kind of glad he's not just like this weird, like a weird uber-athletic guy from a mid-major.
00:37:43
Speaker
The fact that, like like you said, Dusty, he doesn't have a lot of nuance because they built the plane, the runway, that the air traffic control tower out of Harold Fannin Jr. But I kind of do like that, you know, he's not like some sort of, you know, it's not like he's 6'7 or something. He's not...
00:38:01
Speaker
huge He's not winning based on size and athleticism. Yeah, like there is like... theres there's There's sufficient... More than sufficient athleticism for the role that Green Bay would want to have him in.
00:38:13
Speaker
But there is as much... It's as much his willpower. And like, yeah I've got to do it because if I don't do it, nothing else is happening on offense this game. And we're going to lose this game 42-6. So like, there's something to that. And I do...
00:38:29
Speaker
Like, you know, Green Bay has their types. They like team captains. They like this and that and stuff. And I do think they like guys who are like, this was the best player on their team, but they almost always performed up to that. You know, they might have a bad game kind of thing stuff, but they're still giving effort.
00:38:46
Speaker
It was still, yeah. yeah Like the ultimate of the ultimate is like the Nick Collins pick where you're like, they took a guy from Bethune-Cookman in the second round, but you're like, oh my God, that guy played everything for them and he made like every play for them and stuff. And Fanon would, you know, different position, but it would kind of be that idea of where it's like, okay, like...
00:39:06
Speaker
You throw on the film, you get past the funky running form, and you're like, okay, I get it, though. Like, the ball is always going to him in his hands. Like you said, there was the Canadian League running start play that they ran him on and stuff. And, yeah, like, as much as he can't do those plays in the NFL, I would love to see what LeFleur would draw up for him and stuff. then So, yeah, and...
00:39:30
Speaker
This is a draft where, not saying you buck the board for it, but because this wide receiver room kind of lacks in terms of what they're looking for, in terms of like, we want a Christian Watson kind of guy. they're really you know You kind of have to squint for that guy in this wide receiver room.
00:39:46
Speaker
I do wonder if like a fan is like, okay, that's tangible skill as a receiving option. Yeah, they also need, I mean, that they haven't it for a while, like a ball winner in the red zone.
00:39:57
Speaker
And this guy, like this guy will go up and get a ball, like just an insane catch radius as well. So that would help them. i mean, that was the guy they wanted Luke Musgrave to be. And like, he just simply hasn't been partially because it hasn't been on the field.
00:40:08
Speaker
yeah like that's what they wanted Devin Funchess to turn it into. And he hasn't. And Watson has had his days, but then, you know, he's been injured. So if they want a guy that like, we throw you a fade ball, we throw a double post and we just need you to go up and get it in the red zone. Like Fannin is a dude. I think you could do that.
00:40:23
Speaker
Yep. Anyone else that's your interest in this kind of day two, early day three range, man, I don't know. Like there was, cause some of these guys, like some of our older, like, you know, like, like Terrence Ferguson, I had heard, but I don't know that I really love Terrence Ferguson, Mason Taylor. I think yeah I mentioned earlier, like Mason Taylor, I think is,
00:40:43
Speaker
intriguing more from an age perspective than anything. Like I think there's, there's something to, he tries, but he is really, really raw. I think that's a guy who like, I think would have to work on some stuff dynamic with the ball in his hands.
00:40:57
Speaker
He's also a guy that to me, this is just very superficial from some of his interview stuff, the way he talks, it's like, he talks like he thinks the tight end should talk. And it felt almost like he was reading a script. He's yeah, man, I just want to like, I want to run people over. Like, you don't believe that in your soul. You don't believe that.
00:41:14
Speaker
So that to me was just, that was one of those, like this, this feels like a put on to me, but if you want to reach on a guy that's a little younger that I think has those traits, I think Taylor. And then, uh, Yeah, I mean, talk about the other. Joe, this is your this is your time, man. The Iowa kid. Talk about the Iowa Because I watched some of him, and I think I liked him, but I do think there was a little way to go for him. they seemed like a better blocker than some of these guys.
00:41:36
Speaker
He came from Iowa. He's got to be better blocker. First off on that, Joe, Lachey, this is his year back from his ACL tear, right? Yes, yeah. Okay, so handicapping it a little bit with that.
00:41:48
Speaker
I'm going to step back a little bit because you mentioned Terrence Ferguson, and i so I thought the same thing. If you look go off this combine stuff, you know, he's supposed to be this uber athlete. He reminds me of the kid out of Georgia a few years back, that Dwayne Washington, or I think that was his name, where he's this big athletic guy.
00:42:06
Speaker
But when I watched him on the field, I really didn't, you know, it didn't pop me. you know He looked like he was lumbering down the field more than he was a speedster down the field. and Yeah, he made the play here and there. Darnell, right? Darnell Washington?
00:42:22
Speaker
Yeah, Darnell. Yeah, dar yeah yeah that's it. Darnell. Yep, I'm with the exact same, yeah. Yeah, he just was so similar to that that it's just – and I used to laugh with Washington because I'd call him, he looked like Bigfoot running down the field.
00:42:36
Speaker
Well, when I saw Ferguson, it was the same thing. It was just – he was just – you know lumbering his way down more than he was running down. Anyway, with Nick Lachey... Nick Lachey.
00:42:48
Speaker
Fuck. Luke Lachey. Nick Lachey. I've been doing that all fucking week. oh Why can't I trust him? It's been a long week.
00:43:00
Speaker
Self-dance. Tremendous dancer.
00:43:04
Speaker
Well, you would think so. The way he danced around on the field. But... white You know, Iowa is one of those old school pro style offenses that they expect their tight ends to do blocking and receiving and everything like that.
00:43:20
Speaker
Lachey obviously is not going to be the next Kittle or the next Laporta or whatever. i just don't think he's got that in him. I've been trying to remember from seeing him over the course of his career, and I think the big knock i had on him over that time period was he had a lot of drops.
00:43:45
Speaker
And it was, you know, could it have been the quarterback play? Sure. We haven't had the greatest quarterback play in a long time. So, I mean, it easily could be quarterback play.
00:43:57
Speaker
But there were just times that you saw the ball go to him and it would just, like, go off his hands or, you know, he wouldn't be able to bring it in or something like that. But inline blocking, lead blocking, yeah, I would say that he's probably one of the top ones in the draft class just because that's what Iowa expects out of their tight ends.
00:44:18
Speaker
Is he a playmaker? Yeah, he can be a playmaker. he He's going to go out there and he's going to make some plays for you. I know he didn't run the 40 at the combine, so I really couldn't tell you what his his game is game speed looks good, but so like he seems like he plays perfectly fine, but not like a huge game changer.
00:44:38
Speaker
Right. so And he's definitely not going to be the prototypical Iowa guy that has come out to the NFL over the last few years. Like I said, he's not going to be a George Kittle.
00:44:50
Speaker
He's not going to be a Laporta. He's not going to be those type of guys. He's going to be a but next tier down below him. if they If he can go to a team that says, all right, we love what you do in the blocking game.
00:45:02
Speaker
You have the ability to be a playmaker on offense. If you listen to us, you work with us, we'll get you to be that solid guy for us for long time.
00:45:15
Speaker
and And I think he's coachable. Obviously, he's got to be coachable because Ferentz is not going to have a guy on his team that's not coachable. And it's been proven over the over years that he will not bring a guy in there if the guy will not listen to the coaches.
00:45:30
Speaker
and Or if he if he does bring one in, he's not on the team very long. But like you were saying with Fannin out of Bowling Green, the Iowa offense was run out of Caleb Johnson. So it's really hard to know what these tight ends can do because it was – and I guarantee you, you ask almost any Iowa fan and they're going say the same thing.
00:45:58
Speaker
Ferentz's system is always run, run, pass. And that's your your three downs. First down, run it. Second down, run it. Third down, you you pass it.
00:46:09
Speaker
And that's been the problem for years now. And so you're not really seeing a lot of out of this. He could be. He could be the next big one. But I do think that, if anything, i think maybe round-wise his top is third.
00:46:25
Speaker
But I could see it going to like a fourth or fifth round. Yeah, he seems like one those guys that if he hits, it takes him a long way to get there, I think. He's got yeah quite a bit to improve on. I wish he would have done more at the combine, but I know a lot of these guys anymore just wait until they're pro day to do it.
00:46:42
Speaker
I think he was dealing with a little bit of the injury bug this past season, so that could be another thing that could be a negative for him as he he has an issue of staying healthy.
00:46:53
Speaker
So, you know, we'll see. But like I said, I think that – you'll be pushing it if you take him in the third round. Yeah. He felt more like take a shot on this guy fifth, fifth or later. Hopefully you can develop. Which is weird because Kittle was a fifth round pick and Kittle is like the best tight end in the league right now. So it just, it's really weird how that thing, but Kittle also went to the, the combine and exploded at the combine.
00:47:20
Speaker
well, you know, Lachey didn't do that. And, and Kittle also wasn't Kittle year one either. Like it took Kittle a while kind of become what he ended up becoming. So, maybe Maybe that same path if he's a hard worker, but yeah, it's it's it's tough to see him coming in day day one. Like you said, if he's coming in and like you're a blocking guy and we'll leak you out, you're you're Ben Sims.
00:47:40
Speaker
You are Ben Sims from day one. That's not a terrible bet in round five, and then see if we can develop some of that stuff. Yeah. and And I think he could be a better Ben Sims because he will add a little bit more in the passing game with the catchability.
00:47:53
Speaker
and Because I think he's a little bit more athletic wise than Ben Sims is. And that's not a knock on Sims. I really like what Sims can do. And I think he's got a little bit more of ability than what the Packers are using, but he knows what his place is.
00:48:06
Speaker
He's the third, the third tight end on the team and that's what they use them as. So if you're talking about replacing Ben Sims, I think Lachey would be a, would be a solid one, but I don't think it's like a home run pick by any means.
00:48:21
Speaker
Yeah. yeah And that's an Iowa kid, an Iowa was going to say, you've got a homer take, man. That's a terrible homer take, Joe. i just suspect I just spent a while talking about how Colston Loveland was going to save the world.
00:48:36
Speaker
But like I was telling Mike last week when we were talking about offensive line, Iowa has not been producing the players like they used to. yeah And, you know, I know Mike laughs at me every time I say it, but it's because of the Nepo baby.
00:48:51
Speaker
Brian Ferentz could not recruit for nothing, and we're seeing it. But now the that Brian's gone and Kirk has his guy in, and I'm going to forget his name, but he worked for the Packers for a season, and then he was was with Central Michigan. It's it's his offensive coordinator.
00:49:10
Speaker
Now that he's got that going on and can recruit a little bit more, you're seeing him bringing in better players as recruits. So I'm hoping that Iowa will come back and be able to start producing more into the NFL.
00:49:25
Speaker
And that's not saying I wouldn't take him on the Packers. Hell, i like I've said before, I would have a whole draft of Iowa players. But, you know, it's just – I've got to be brutally honest. Yeah.
00:49:38
Speaker
I'm not the homer like Mike is. No one is. yeah Just wait. You're lucky there's no second tight end in this draft. of machine i Well, and that's another thing. Iowa had another guy that would have been draft eligible in Ostringa that I think probably would have been a little bit more athletic profile-wise than what Lachey is, but he decided to go back to school. So I think next year there's a shot that that There could be a couple tight ends come out from the school.
00:50:09
Speaker
Yep. Anyone else you guys got on your list that you wanted to bring up and talk about? or Dusty, have you? you So I think the other two guys that i kind of watched, kind of on a whim more than anything, who's the Syracuse kid? Aranda Gadsden strikes me as a man who cannot block to save his life. Yeah.
00:50:28
Speaker
He is an okay receiver who like either can't or won't block as near as I can tell. I didn't watch a ton of him. I think I watched one game of his, and I was like, I used to try watch four, at the very least two. I got through one game of his, and I was like, this isn't going to work. feel like I feel like I get it. I did the same thing with and what's the Joshua Simon of South Carolina.
00:50:48
Speaker
so yeah I live in SEC country. I had seen some buzz about him because he had some he had some nice games receiving. have you Have either of you watched this guy No, I tried to. And I was like, no, that's all right. He's going to be 25 years old during the season. He's already 24.
00:51:02
Speaker
i watched two games. He can catch the ball. That's it. Like you talk about a guy who can't line up a block and also doesn't know what he's supposed to do when he comes to the line. It's Joshua Simon. And he's 20, he's going to be 25 when the season starts. I was like,
00:51:14
Speaker
That'll be Hayden Hurst all over again. Same school and everything. Yeah. I was like, Hayden Hurst turned into a better player than I thought he was going to, but I was like, Joshua. And like Simon, I know, got some buzz because his Raz is like, i think, 8.68. Good receiver.
00:51:30
Speaker
All he can do is detach receiver, and he'll be a slightly but above average one on that. So I watched those two guys and was like,
00:51:39
Speaker
I could see maybe a use for these guys somewhere, but like for the Packers, nah, I'm not drafting a 25-year-old developmental tight end. That's not what I'm here for,
00:51:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I've got a few guys that I've watched, but a lot of them are going to have the same take on them. you know They're great receivers, but the blocking is an issue with them. Like there's Jackson Hawes out of Georgia Tech, you know blocking ability, but not great.
00:52:06
Speaker
The other thing about him is he wasn't used a lot out of the Georgia Tech system. So there wasn't really much that you can watch on his targets, you know, good speed and all that.
00:52:17
Speaker
And, you know, he was used in the motion a lot, which, you know, if you go off of the floor system, they use their guys in motion all the time. So he would at least be coming into a system he knows. But I do have a draft crush coming out of the tight end spot.
00:52:31
Speaker
It's hard to believe that I actually do and it's not an Iowa guy And he is going to make like the all name team because his last name is something else. I don't even know how it fits on the back of a uniform to be.
00:52:44
Speaker
but it's Jake Bridingstuhl out of Clemson. yeah And you know I thought his speed was good. He was a solid hand catcher. And I said he had some fight to him.
00:52:54
Speaker
And by that, I mean, when you see him upfield, he wasn't the easy takedown. He was daring guys to come at him and and take him. Now, he did go down fairly quickly when couple guys did come at him, but at least he had that fight to him to say, all right, well, you're not going to get me down easy. You're at least going have to yeah work for it.
00:53:16
Speaker
He did have have some elusiveness luive this to him. See, I can't even talk to Mike. There was a a moment against Wake Forest that he put a spin move on that you would have thought he was a wide receiver.
00:53:28
Speaker
Just because that's how quick that friggin' spin move was. i was like, wait, what? This is a friggin' tight end and he's putting that kind of spin move on a guy? and And like I said, he has fight to him, but his blocking, he's again, like I said, with everything else, he's got the ability.
00:53:44
Speaker
He's got the know-how to do it. It's just he doesn't have the technique to follow through with it. And I don't know if it's because he doesn't have the size to him. I don't know if it's because he doesn't have the strength to him.
00:53:58
Speaker
But he knows what he's doing. yeah And he was a guy that went full hard 100% through things. There was no lollygagging about him. He was going 100% every time, whether he was getting the ball or the ball was coming near and him or not.
00:54:14
Speaker
And I really liked what I saw. And really, if the Packers aren't sold on Musgraves because of the injury issues, this is a guy that I could see come in and be tied into behind Kraft. And we'd have a heck of a tandem going for a few years.
00:54:31
Speaker
Yep. I think i think that's what it is basically what they're looking for. I feel like on the roster, they have some guys who are not great athletes, but it's like, you know, between Swinson and Lumpkin, they're kind of like, okay, maybe that can be your blocking guy and let you do more things with Kraft. You know, if...
00:54:48
Speaker
Kraft becomes more of the quote unquote detached receiver. Or you're like, OK, Kraft is, you know, a two way guy but you bring in more of a receiver type who maybe can be, you know, improve as a blocker, you know, with a NFL strength and conditioning program, all that jazz, a little bit more coaching.
00:55:06
Speaker
but you know you play it that way. it's just not you know That's what has to be spoken for is Kraft, his ascension to being a true two-way player at the tight end position and allows them flexibility in what they're looking for. And I do think they it's a it's not a pressing need, but because of the fact that Kraft and Musgrave are the same year. They're both going into their third season. You don't know what you've got in Musgrave outside of two unfortunate injuries that have cut short both of his seasons.
00:55:38
Speaker
You know, they obviously still like the talent enough to the point that they were like, we're going to get him back. We're hopefully going to get him back this year and we'll see what happens with him kind of thing. And then even his, you know, his rookie year, it was like,
00:55:52
Speaker
he missed the middle third plus of the season and then they got him back right before the playoffs and what do they do? They run, you know, why leak for him against the but Cowboys? and said And I, you know, people say like, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean.
00:56:06
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. But, and, you know, people say like, well, what does that really mean? But I'm like, it shows you that there's still like a plan. It's that old coaching adage of like, I'm, you know, every loud coach says,
00:56:20
Speaker
The day you have to worry about me is when I don't yell at you because that means that I don't care anymore. And despite the issues that Musgrave has been unfortunate, you know, truly unfortunately had set upon him, they continue to try and be like...
00:56:34
Speaker
this you know Because like we said, LeFleur at his core, his identity, he wants to be 12. twelve And I do think that's why, to a degree, he kind of has his attitude about the whole, like, who's your wide receiver one. But his whole thing is, because I play out of 12, we're going to be multiple with our wide receivers. Everything comes off of our condensed...
00:56:55
Speaker
are condensed formations, our run game, our run game fakes. And that's why, yes, obviously we want a number one target, but you know he kind of is like... he's not It's not the scheme, but it's like because of the spacing that's provided by having two tight ends that can operate in both phases of the game, it should open up a lot more of the offense. And so I do think...
00:57:19
Speaker
they have not given up on Musgrave. But like I said, Kraft is knock on wood, a pretty sure thing at this point. And now it's like, okay, we get Musgrave insurance.
00:57:30
Speaker
And if both, you know if he stays healthy and hits and the rookie hits, we're cooking with gravy right now and stuff. So any other thoughts, you guys, on this class where the Packers sit at tight end? Or Dusty, we'd love to hear you, just what you think they're going to do this first round this year. Yeah, it's yeah and there's a question that we always ask our guests is first round and Thursday night.
00:57:58
Speaker
you know, I'm actually going to be there. They're in their war room. they're days Hey, you two, you two got to meet up. You know, Joe's been going around going, so no one's going. I think we're only going be up Thursday. Me and my youngest brother heading up. I think to Wednesday. We're going to head back on Friday.
00:58:15
Speaker
Kind of at a bucket list item. My youngest brother, my younger brother is is way more into the draft than I am. It's always been a, it'd be fun to go to the draft. Like what's in green Bay this year. So, We're going up there. i have no idea who they're going to pick.
00:58:26
Speaker
See, final thoughts on a tight ad room. I will say it's an interesting year for all the reasons that we kind of said. It's a whole lot of receiver type of guys, which I think comes into, and I've not tracked any of the, who the Packers have talked to, whether or not that matters or not. But do think for the Packers offense with what they want to do this year with this group of dudes, that interview is so important because it's so much of it is like okay, you're detached wide receiver.
00:58:50
Speaker
You did well there. if we play you in line, how do you feel about that? If we look at this, this block, who are you blocking? Like draw stuff up on the chalkboard. You're in line. You're the YY wing.
00:59:01
Speaker
We're motioning you over to like kick out when this happens. Who do you have? If this happens here, like I think the interview and that process there is so important for this group just because they're, there's a large group of guys here who either don't have, don't have that in their bag or are not very good at that right now, or haven't shown it.
00:59:19
Speaker
So I'd be interested in, want to do it or don't want to do it. Yeah. So I'd i'd be interested in, and I think that's going to be kind of a key figure and in how tight, because a lot of these guys, like you say, Elijah Aurora, I know a lot of people are high on, they like him.
00:59:31
Speaker
I assume he's not on the Packers board unless, unless he kills it in the interview. And it's like, no, man, this is the way I want to play. They just didn't have me doing this in Miami. Like it's hard to tell. but it's a very interesting class. And I assume this is the way a lot of this stuff's going to go going forward. Not a whole lot, a lot of inline, not a whole lot of like lining up, blocking, blocking in space.
00:59:49
Speaker
lot of guys like real hard time blocking in space when the picture changes. So I'd be curious. I mean, I do think, i think they're going to take someone probably middle rounds. I think is again, my, my dude, I hope they, hope they target fanon, but just given the state of the room with craft at one,
01:00:06
Speaker
Musgrave, like you said, Mike, we're going into year three. We still don't know exactly what we have in him. We know we have a guy who's not a great blocker, but who tries and can be dynamic when he's on the field.
01:00:16
Speaker
He's just not really on the field. And so I think, I mean, i don't think they love any of the guys behind him. And so I think you got to start making plans for, right, we're going to bring a guy along. So I think they're going to take at least one. I think middle rounds, take a guy, see what you can groom. him He's a special teamer.
01:00:30
Speaker
see if you can get him do something going forward. So i'm I'm hoping for Fanon. And yeah, if Loveland falls, if Warner Loveland falls first round, i would love that. i think I can't see them going tight at round one.
01:00:42
Speaker
If Loveland's sitting there at 23, it's such a perfect marriage of of player and scheme, I think would just be – I think he'd be tremendous in Green Bay. I don't see it happening. I'm going to say who are they going to – I'm bad at all the other positions. I legit have only looked at tight ends. That's only for you guys. I've only looked at draft stuff for you two gentlemen.
01:01:00
Speaker
I mean, I think given – if If a, if an edge falls, I think they go edge. I think it's edge or corner. I think it's defensive side of the ball. I think the, the offensive line i think signing banks takes offensive line and I'm not on the equation. It's a weird draft to think for offensive line. I don't think they're taking an offensive line in first round.
01:01:17
Speaker
Fair as near as I can tell from what I've listened to pretty deep defensive tackles. I don't know if you have to reach there, but I think if you've got an edge or if you've got a corner, that's where you go around one. You can pick up defensive tackle somewhere around two, around three, something like that. But I think defensive side, I'll go add your corner depending on who's there.
01:01:35
Speaker
And yeah, just to kind of touch on the must agree thing one more time. i think. it's It's a funky position that the Packers and Musgrave are in because like it's not a contract year for him, but you know his whole thing coming out of college is like dynamic downfield threat, but it's not been a problem. Yeah. And like I said, and like Joe pointed out, it's not like you know he's not having the Watson where it's like his hamstrings just toast every year kind of thing. It's like...
01:02:02
Speaker
ruptured kidney one year and then the bolo ankle like I said that didn't look that bad and then it's like oh he's on IR and it's like oh oh okay and so on his end big year you know need to show like you're gonna live up to the pedigree of that second round pick we've seen it at times and also from the Packers point of view They need him to be healthy and dynamic this because you're not going to have Watson until Thanksgiving realistic. like he's not He's not going to be that Christian Watson this year. That's just how ACL recoveries go.
01:02:37
Speaker
And even in terms of like getting him on the field, Thanksgiving is like the day that you know if he comes back earlier, I'm like, great. But I'm not expecting to see nine on the field until Thanksgiving rolls around. That's just kind of how you figure... And then even then, you've got to look forward to the next year because both him and Romeo are on on contract years.
01:02:57
Speaker
Yep, exactly. so yeah it So that's why it's even more important for Musgrave to be what, you know like I said, he doesn't have to be everything because that's a lot of development he lost the past few years.
01:03:12
Speaker
if he can just stretch the seam for healthy and run the seam. just stay on the field and stretch the seam from whether it's, like Dusty said, the YY spot, if he's across the formation from Tucker, if he's split up, whatever.
01:03:24
Speaker
They absolutely need that this year because free agency, there weren't a lot of options that were realistic for them in terms of you know what they were going to pay for a guy to just be a seam stretching receiver.
01:03:36
Speaker
And in terms of this draft, like I said, it's... The guys that can do that kind of thing have to fall to the right spot. And that's where, like I said, because of how weird the receiver class is in the draft and in free agency, see because there aren't really tight end options in free agency, if Warren and Lovelace, like I said, the biggest obstacle to that is one, how Green Bay picks, and two, the fact that the Chargers pick right in front of Green Bay. But yeah but yeah if those, and I've joked that, like,
01:04:09
Speaker
Harbaugh, it is heart of hearts. The only reason he doesn't take Loveland is because Warren is also on the board. and And then it's like, pick your favorite cow at that point kind of thing. But to me, if those two guys make it to pick 22, and hypothetically that means one is available at pick 23, the reason they do is because the positions you've listed, Dusty, have just gone like hotcakes in the time before.
01:04:32
Speaker
And that's the reality where, like I said, Shavink and I have kind of painted like... it could happen. but Like I said, we were we we were on derailed talking through it. and you know At first, I was like, nah, same thing, Dusty. I was like, they they wouldn't take a tight end, but I was like, oh, yeah. But if they did... Well, Mike, I keep pointing out to people, it's been 23 years since they took a wide receiver in the first round.
01:04:59
Speaker
It's been 25 years since they took a tight end in the first round. This would be the ultimate... like I've said for the longest time, this would be like the ultimate thing. That player, and whether it be a tight end or first round, if they get drafted in the first round this year in Green Bay,
01:05:16
Speaker
That guy would be like, even if he would not see the field for the rest of his career, would be the king of Green Bay just because everybody would celebrate a tight end or a wide receiver being taken in the first round. they finally took a wide receiver in the first round and like he stunk out loud, they'd run him out on a rail. like You see why we won't see. They would sit there and just and for like the first two years, they would be You know, he would get the key to the city just before the season even started, just because yeah that's how long it's been since they've taken one. So, you know, and and it's going to be fun to see. i
01:05:53
Speaker
I'll be up there all three days all three days of the draft. So I'm going to have a lot of, I know I'm going to be aching and sore by the time I get home, but it should be fun. But yep, Dusty, thank you so much for joining us. We're going to get you out of here so that we don't test test the parenthood of gods. There's been no noises behind me. I'm clear, Mike. I'm clear.
01:06:14
Speaker
yeah and And I know Dusty's the good kind of dad who wouldn't be like, nope, no noise, no noise, no. There has definitely been no noise. But like I said, we don't want to tempt fate here. We want to get Dusty out with but a full head count, so to speak. But Dusty, thank you so much for coming on. Please let everyone know where they can find your work. I know you've got all 10 fingers in 10 different pies these days. So please let us know. Refresh even Joe and my memory on where you're working for right now. No. Yeah. Thank you guys for having me on. Like i said, sorry, missed guys last year.
Guest's Return and Future Contributions
01:06:44
Speaker
i'm Always a pleasure to talk to you guys. Thank you for inviting me back, knowing full well that I ditched you guys last year. And then also don't typically know a lot about draft stuff. I did try to come prepared this year, so hope I didn't embarrass myself. So it's a blast to talk to you guys as always.
01:06:59
Speaker
I am at a ready acupacking company. I, Got something this week, probably. I mean, honestly, now, you know, free agency's over. I wrote something on Nate Davis last week, kind of a deep dive in his stuff. Now that I've actually looked at tight ends of the draft, I might write, I might become a draft writer and write up some tight ends. I pulled some clips for this show, so i might do some of that stuff but We've got the perfect spot for it if you want it. You know, ObamaFackers.org is always looking for writers.
01:07:24
Speaker
We shall see. It'll probably be Acme Packing for now. but We'll see. but yeah Keep an eye out of Acme Packing Company. I'm over there. And then Wednesday Pack-A-Days with Steve Perhatch and Sarah Kelleher.
01:07:35
Speaker
We usually take the draft season off because all three of us are like smarter people than us can talk about this. i People that care more and and and talk about this stuff more. so Nonsense. i want steve do I want Steve to do a live recap. Yeah.
01:07:48
Speaker
Live play-by-play of round one. I would love to hear Steve's take. Oh, don't know. I don't know this guy. And the funny thing is, the air is on next week too. so yeah I think they actually did. i They did not record it, but I think last year they did because i was i was busy. But I think they hopped on a call and they just like watched the draft live together.
01:08:07
Speaker
and talked about it. So they are doing something. So, you know we'll see. But yeah, that's where you can find me again. You guys are always we so much fun. We should, I wish the draft was more often so we could talk a little bit more, but this was, this was great guys.
01:08:21
Speaker
No,
Anecdotes and Conclusion
01:08:21
Speaker
no. We always appreciate that you take time out. You know, when used to help Dusty with like film stuff at all, I was always like, hey, Dusty, got it done, blah, blah, blah. And it's like midnight here, which means where Dusty is. It's six in the morning. And I'm like, the green dot on his messenger is available. What the fuck, Dusty?
01:08:41
Speaker
Why are you responding to me right now? yeah I'm trying to get better. I'm trying to set better boundaries now, Mike, but it's still a problem. Were you getting those pictures too, Dusty? I get them once in a while. It's like, Mike, wrong number.
01:08:58
Speaker
And on that note, we will thank Dusty. yeah and Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Ahana Packers Edition podcast. So thank you. And as we always say, go Pack Go and aloha.