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OPE Season 3 Episode 53 The Early Roster Bubble
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Aloha and welcome to another episode of OPE! This week we begin our struggles in finding an offseason topic. We take an early look at the roster bubble!
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Transcript
Intro
Packers Roster Updates Post-2025 Draft
00:00:20
Speaker
Oh, shit.
00:00:22
Speaker
Aloha and welcome back to the Ohana Packers Edition podcast. Iowa Joe
Wyatt vs. Walker: Fifth-Year Option Dilemma
00:00:26
Speaker
and I are here. We did our post 2025 draft recap last week. And now we're going to talk a little more in depth about the nuances of where the Packers roster stands at this point.
00:00:38
Speaker
Excuse me. You know, the big moves that came out this week, the Packers made the 50-year option decisions on their twenty two 2022 first round picks. lot of twos there.
00:00:53
Speaker
Extending the 50-year option to Devontae Wyatt and declining it for Quay Walker in the midst of this. Brian Gutekunst has continued to state that their expectation is to sign both players to some kind of extension and keep them for longer term. He didn't go into detail on what longer term refers to in terms, you know, is that like couple years, four years,
Evaluating Walker's Role and Potential
00:01:21
Speaker
whatever. So Joe...
00:01:23
Speaker
As it stands, how are we feeling about the decisions to give the fifth year to Devante and but excuse me not get not extend it to Quay at this point?
00:01:36
Speaker
I really am kind of surprised about it because if any of it, I figured it would be the other way around, that they would pick up Quays and decline Wyatt's or they would just flat out decline both of them and work out a deal like they did with Jordan Love.
00:01:52
Speaker
i Because really, they've both produced about the same amount throughout their time with Green Bay, which is a hot and cold player. Still believe in Quay. I still think he's a solid player.
00:02:05
Speaker
i just I'm hoping that they can get him away from being the field general type and just let him play instinctually instead of you know forcing him to be that not saying he can't do it, but be forcing him to be that guy. That's making the adjustments. It's calling the plays. It's, you know, doing all that stuff, you know, take the green dot away from them, give it to somebody like McKinney or something like that, and just let them play like they let edge Cooper play.
00:02:37
Speaker
Cause when he's able but to do that, he's been a damn good player.
Wyatt's Performance and Defensive Line Depth
00:02:40
Speaker
It's when he's had to do everything else that you can see that he's not been up to Paul or a Wyatt.
00:02:49
Speaker
you know, has been hot and cold to where, yeah know, we we saw it a lot last year where he he started out in a flash and then he got injured and then it took him a long time to recover from that and get back to doing yeah anything.
00:03:05
Speaker
But right now, you know, with the lack go of depth really on the defensive line, it's, you've got to keep as many people as you can.
00:03:19
Speaker
So, yeah, that that's where I'm sitting with it.
Financial Implications of Extensions
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, on face value, it does kind of raise some eyebrows that, you know, they extended Wyatt and not Kuei. But when you look, you dive into the numbers, I do think from a pure number standpoint, it does make a little more sense why they would kind of balk a little bit. So for Kuei, the number would have been 14...
00:03:46
Speaker
fourteen million, 751,000 based on his playing time and production. So it scales up a certain way. So that's the number Quay would have been locked in for if he had signed the extension.
00:04:00
Speaker
Devante is a shade under 14 million.
Packers' Contract Strategy and Cap Management
00:04:03
Speaker
And the reason I bring those two numbers up is if you look at the average contract amount that a player at either position makes, Quay, if he had signed the 50-year option, he would be the sixth one two three four five six he would be the seventh highest paid inter inside linebacker or off ball inside linebacker uh in the and of nfl whereas davante at 14 or under 14 is holy crud they don't even have numbers hold on so
00:04:40
Speaker
he would be the twenty sixth hi He will be the twenty sixth highest player by his average per year so in a sense think the way that the Packers are looking at it is they still maintain the ability to work out a longer-term deal with both of them in terms of with...
00:05:00
Speaker
With Devontae, they have the fifth year, so they already have a mechanism that he's under contract and they can work out an extension for him regardless. And then in Kuei's case, they could extend either the franchise or transition tag.
00:05:14
Speaker
So, you know, some people are like, oh, does this mean they don't like him a certain amount, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. you have to remember is they're already looking at what their numbers are for 2026. And I think if they had, you know, Ken Ingalls did a thing where, and you can find this all on over the cap as well, but if they had extended the, the fifth year options to both players, they'd be over the cap.
00:05:41
Speaker
I know Ken does his effect quote unquote effective salary cap and all that kind of stuff. But, Just bar none, they would be they would be about $8 million over the cap if they had given Kuei the extension.
00:05:54
Speaker
This way, they can go in, do the you know do the extension, do the funny money, scale the contract, all that kind of stuff. So I've seen some people even say, they're like, oh, we like you, but we don't like you.
00:06:08
Speaker
If you looked at the numbers, to me, it was pretty clear that they didn't want to put Kwe on the fifth year. They would have preferred to do either a four-year that they could get out of within like two years kind of thing, or do something like the love contract. And I think they're still working on it based on how they're...
00:06:28
Speaker
based on how their, you know, Gutekunst has talked about it with media and stuff. So, you know, some people are drawing conclusions and all.
00:06:37
Speaker
don't think there's anything nearly set in stone with either, but obviously it's something to talk about as we're in the semi-dead part of the season.
Understanding the Fifth-Year Option vs. Franchise Tag
00:06:44
Speaker
But my whole stance on it is this 50-year option is merely a mechanism to an end because...
00:06:53
Speaker
the way teams look at it is for the most part it's like a situation with rashaun where it's like and at um rashaun jair where it's like we've drafted this guy in the first round we really like him we're gonna keep him and we're gonna use the fifth year option as like i don't want to say a negotiating tool but a way to lock a guy in for another year but we totally intend to extend their contract beyond that one year or Through that one year, there's different ways you can do the contract. So long story short. I really see the option as similar to like a franchise tag or a yeah a exclusive rights tag yeah where it it just gives you that one extra year yeah do whatever you've got to do with it.
00:07:42
Speaker
So yeah, I agree. And that's why i'm not I'm not overly concerned about it because like I said, if they can't, there they're still reportedly working on
Jair Alexander's Status and Future with Packers
00:07:52
Speaker
extensions.
00:07:53
Speaker
And if they can't get an extension done, they still have the franchise and transition tags that they could use to, you know as Andrew Brandt would say, extend the clock to give it them more time to agree on a deal, but those are discussions that, you know, we'll keep an eye on heading into through the rest of this offseason and into really next offseason. But like I said, it gives us something to talk about at this point in time because we are in the dead period between the draft and
00:08:25
Speaker
and pre-season But on the other side of it, we also got an update regarding Jair Alexander that after all the reports that it is done, there is no more to talk about.
00:08:39
Speaker
Both the team is done with Jair. Jair is frustrated and doesn't want to be here anymore. It now looks like the the most likely outcome of this situation is Jair and the Packers would agree to some kind of restructure of his deal and he will play 2025 with the Packers.
00:09:02
Speaker
Obviously, again, this is another one of those until he's out there week one, this this saga is not over and such. But Joe... I think I know where you're going to go with this one, but how are you taking this new most recent update regarding Jair Alexander and the Packers?
00:09:19
Speaker
This is the issue that I've had with blog, not bloggers. I was going to copy with beat writers. They want to set to, and this goes out to what Tom Silverstein did a couple years ago, or even if maybe it was just last year where he oh, well, don't listen to bloggers and podcasters because they don't know what they're talking about. and Listen to the beat writers because they have more ends.
00:09:43
Speaker
Okay, you're just as wrong as you just pulled what a blogger and a podcaster quote unquote would do under your opinion. You thought something was happening.
00:09:57
Speaker
I still don't see where anybody has said it Uh, where this issue is out there other than we got that one comment at the end of the year that we didn't even get a sound clip out of it. I don't think we just got the words of a writer that Jair said something to the effect that I don't even know if I'll be here next year.
Media Speculation and Locker Room Dynamics
00:10:19
Speaker
And you also got to take in the respect that that was the day after losing a playoff game frustrations with an injury.
00:10:31
Speaker
frustrations with the loss, frustrations on the full year as as a whole. Everybody says stupid shit. That doesn't mean that this is happening, this relationship soured.
00:10:48
Speaker
Could there be something between the Packers and Jair? Sure, but we've never seen any proof of it. oh It's not like the and I know as a GM and as a coach and all that stuff they just can't fully come out and say yeah we're we're completely done with that guy I don't know what you know we don't want him on the team main anymore because a that hurts your your trade options if you are trying to trade him and be if you're not trying to the ah ah if you're not actively doing it that hurts morale anyway
00:11:22
Speaker
oh but You heard LeFleur say Jair was constantly in the building in the offseason. You the you heard from some of the draft picks that Jair was one of the first ones to reach out to the draft picks.
00:11:38
Speaker
Well, if you've got an issue going on with with an attitude in that, he's the last person I'd want to contact the draft picks because who knows what he's going to be telling them. He's been seen with like Xavier McKinney working out.
00:11:54
Speaker
Jordan Love has come out and said, that's a guy we need to keep on the roster. i So I don't see where these beat writers have seen anything or heard anything different to the contrary of things. you know Where are we seeing that he's lost the locker room, where he's lost the confidence in the team and all that stuff?
00:12:20
Speaker
I just, I don't understand it. I've been on the train that this year never made sense of cutting ties with them anyway. Next year made more sense just because of the cost saving.
00:12:33
Speaker
Yeah, there's a chance that after June 1st that they could do something, but
00:12:38
Speaker
i just, I don't see it because as we've said before, as we've talked about before, when healthy, when on the field, Jair Alexander is an all pro player. He's just had some really bad luck with injuries the last couple of years.
Alexander's Importance and Performance Review
00:12:53
Speaker
So and one of the things that shows that they're not really ready to move on from them. When they took a corner in the seventh round, if you think they were moving on from them, you'd think they would try to fill that hole with something more than a seventh rounder.
00:13:11
Speaker
Because I'm i'm sorry, i you know, Nate Hobbs was a big, big free agent for him. I just I don't see Keyshawn Nixon being a number one.
00:13:22
Speaker
Is he a role player? Is he a is he a solid player? and Sure. But I don't see him being a true number one. I don't see Nate Hobbs being a true number one. i also don't fall in line with a lot of the other ones where I think they just signed him to a big contract to be a slot player.
00:13:39
Speaker
I do think they view him as an outside corner. I
00:13:45
Speaker
i just I think for the last few years, they've been looking for a partner to put with Jair, and that's what Nate Hobbs is. Get Jair healthy. Get him back. Let him play.
00:13:55
Speaker
And if next year there's the same issues, then it's a lot of easier to cut ties with him.
00:14:02
Speaker
I agree. And like, you've kind of either touched on or glossed over the main reasons for both of us having this, this, uh, this position that it just never made sense for the team to want to move on.
00:14:14
Speaker
So the three big ones that I look at is, e one of the ones you brought up that the locker room is still behind Jair. It's the most you've heard from the locker room standpoint is, it was a tough year for him.
00:14:30
Speaker
Frustrating, you know, he's frustrated. We're front and I don't think they even really took the he's frustrated. We're frustrated stance. It's more most of the guys, especially in the DB room, you hear them just say really sucks. You know how good of a player is. We want him back.
00:14:44
Speaker
Like it's been more of that tone. Like you said, the leader of this team, its quarterback has said you want a guy like Jair back. Draft picks have stated it. the the Xavier McKinney both in terms of working out with Jair and just flat out saying like no like you want that guy back out there with you kind of thing so he's the locker room is still views him as part of the team Jair himself has at no point just come out and said I want to be traded there has been no trade demand from his point of view
00:15:16
Speaker
And that we've seen, we will get them right right about that we've seen anything like that. Right. And and what I do think and while some would say like, oh, that hurts leverage, what the Packers have done has hurt leverage more than Jair demanding a trade, because at least demanding a trade.
00:15:33
Speaker
it gets more people interested in talking to you about a trade. Because if if it's the, we take calls about everyone stance that, you know, Gutekinds has repeated like a gazillion times since he took over as GM, other teams aren't going to break out their best offer because they're like, oh, like we'll call to do the legwork, but we're not going to put our best offer out there because, you know, we don't want to potentially hurt feelings if we're like, you know, oh,
00:16:02
Speaker
we would trade our top corner, a draft pick, and, you know, whatever to get Jair if he really is available. But if it turns out like, oh, the Packers aren't even to the point, they're a point below putting out feelers, and it's other people putting the feelers out on the Packers, then...
00:16:21
Speaker
those other teams are potentially screwing up their locker room because it's like, oh, like you called about trading me for a guy that his team didn't even really want to trade? Like what the hell's up with that?
00:16:33
Speaker
So I think that's the that's the nuance that a lot of people don't understand that explicitly stating a guy is like looking for a trade does grease the wheels in a certain in a certain dynamic and something to kind of go to go with you on that is if what these beat writers are saying is true where they're either going to trade him or cut him then why is any team going to offer him anything if they know they can just pick him up in free agency when he's cut yep like it's
00:17:04
Speaker
Yeah. And like I said, that's where it goes into the like Green Bay has like, if you wanted to get anything for it and I had that long like five tweet post about like,
00:17:15
Speaker
If you're really moving on, just fucking do it at this point. Don't dance around it. And like I said, the part that honestly, from my point of view, that pissed me off a lot as a Packers fan is when they're like, oh, that report came out that they're like, they're done with Jair, but they're concerned if he goes to an a rival. And I'm like, if you're so dug in that the dude is toast,
00:17:39
Speaker
stand on business and just cut the guy or whatever. Like if you're so convinced that he is done,
00:17:47
Speaker
What he potentially could do with another team should not at all factor into what you do in terms of your own team building. Like, to me, that's just cowardice from the Packers if that is in either way swinging their decision making. Like, if you've been so externally outspoken that, like,
00:18:10
Speaker
you know, we just don't trust him anymore. We don't think he can stay healthy, blah, blah, blah. Then why does it bother you that another team may get six games out of him? Like, but... As it stands, Jair is still a member of the Packers.
00:18:23
Speaker
The Packers, and again, you know knock on wood, this is all under the concept that you know he is going to stay with the team throughout training camp and into the regular season, and and if he can stay healthy.
00:18:34
Speaker
If he's healthy, and this is the part that a lot of people that try to play a certain side of this, you know the, oh, I'm done with him, his antics, blah, blah, blah. He's still been an all-pro or a near all-pro player when he's been healthy.
00:18:51
Speaker
And people are so quick to gloss over that. And that's the other part of it that pisses me off. It'd be one thing if like you got, you know, if was injured so much and when he came back, you got a diminished version of him.
00:19:03
Speaker
Like, I can understand that. The dude was a fucking all pro in 2022. was having, he you know, he made one of the highlight plays of your playoff run in 2023, and he had some highlight plays and was legitimately, this defense looked like a top five unit when he was out there on the field. Yeah, he got got by A.J. Brown in week one, but A.J. Brown is that good. Like, let's let's not make any bones about that.
00:19:30
Speaker
And let's say it again that we've said it a hundred different times, that field sucked.
Fanbase Reactions to Player Extensions
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah. So like I said, like if you're gonna, you know, pretend to be about it be about it. And, you know, like I, I've made this joke so many times on this show, other shows on Twitter, the worst place you can be at the, as a green Bay Packer player is a former draft pick who signed an extension because the moment you do not live up to expectations, everyone, but
00:20:01
Speaker
Rodgers and Jordy Nelson has been run over by this fan base with little to no regard for the circumstances or what, what maybe ah ah we had claim. Matthews is stealing money from the team.
00:20:15
Speaker
Nick Perry. Yeah. Nick Perry is like a joke. Like you, you trusted a guy in a contract year you had, know,
00:20:24
Speaker
the jimmy well Jimmy Graham was in a draft pick, but then and now you have Jair who's taking over the role of he's he's committed grand larceny on the Green Bay Packers and stuff like that. like you know For a fan base that prides itself on being this loyal, higher-than-high, golden-souled fan base, it's like
00:20:45
Speaker
as As a whole, we say some god-awful shit about players that we supposedly care about and love. like Like I said, in this recent generation of Packers, the only two who have been relatively without... You know, above that... Who have been above that treatment are Rodgers and Jordy Nelson.
00:21:06
Speaker
Everyone else has just been shot or stabbed in the back after signing a contract. So... I hope, and and that's the part that's so dumb is like people that are like, oh, you know, like, know, I'll hope, you know, you might want him to be good, but you know, I hope he sucks because I hate his attitude. i'm like, do you want the fucking, do you fucking want the team to be good?
00:21:27
Speaker
Like, do you want the team to, you, because if you are truly a fan of the Packers and you want your team to have success, you need all the really good players to have really good years.
00:21:38
Speaker
And Jair is one of them. and funny And I pointed this out the other day that the funny thing is, is everybody wanted to cut Jair and sign like Asante Samuel Jr. Asante Samuel Jr. still isn't on a team.
00:21:53
Speaker
And we're already getting into the minicamp part of the season. Yep. Like for all the angst about Jair is this and that. and so Asante Samuel Jr. has never been as good as Jair.
00:22:09
Speaker
His play has declined since his rookie season, and he's been injury-prone too the last couple years. So, like... if you're going to point at names, like at least do the frigging research and like know what you're talking about.
00:22:22
Speaker
But, or they wanted to bring Rizul back and Rizul's not on a team either. Yeah. And like love Rizul, but he's on the other side of 30 at this point. Like if you're older than your number your numbers in the thirties, like you are old by NFL standards at this point.
Post-Draft Roster Assessment and Potential Changes
00:22:40
Speaker
But that's where the Packers stand with three of their, you know, players of, I guess you could say interest or, yeah, players of interest for the coming 2025 and beyond, pick you know, frame of reference.
00:22:55
Speaker
But heading into 2025 itself, you know, we we talked only about the draft picks last week, but... Joe and I, you know, we're we're searching high and wide for topics of discussion the coming weeks. And one of the things we said we would talk about today is who are the players on the the roster bubble as it stands coming out of the draft? You know, the Packers made eight picks.
00:23:18
Speaker
A lot of them seem to fit into a lot of, you know, potential needs or areas that be upgraded upon. And let's just kind of go into, know, those position rooms and how those shake out a little bit. So I know we kind of did the wide receiver room last week with regards to the draft class already.
00:23:36
Speaker
So like we said, you take Golden and Savion both day one and day two picks. So really, they're making the roster unless something so heinous or unfortunate, i.e. a bad injury occurs.
00:23:50
Speaker
Christian is... i know I know the reports are that his rehab is going very well, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. He still tore his ACL in January. Like, he is' if if he does not start the season on PUP, like, he is going to be investigated by the NFL every day of the season to see what he did. yeah like Like, we can joke about it, but we're also serious that, like, they're going to put him under...
00:24:15
Speaker
multiple microscopes to find out what the fuck he did to his knee to get back on the field in such rapid succession because he would be lapping the adrian peterson alien recovery timeline and then you know likely locks are dobbs reed and then wicks is in the should be but maybe category and then after that it's melton Mikko Hardman, Malik Heath, and then the, you know, former street free agents, UDFAA type. So, I said, I know we kept it pretty tight, or we really went in on that one. But like we said, we do expect that, you know, if they keep five, it's going to be the two draft picks.
00:24:58
Speaker
Reid, Dobbs, and Wicks. You know, Wicks, we do want to see him play this preseason. You know, Joe brought that up last preseason. I was okay with it, but I do think he should play a little more this preseason given what he went through last year.
00:25:14
Speaker
Moving around the room, O-line. So, you know, they took Anthony Belton. They took John Williams.
00:25:24
Speaker
I don't know why I'm struggling with that. Like you kind of joked last week on the draft review. Like it for for those of us who love the movies and soundtracks, we that one should roll right off the tongue there. But who do you think is on the bubble for the O-line room going into this season?
00:25:40
Speaker
Truthfully, I have no clue because i really have no idea what they're trying to do with their offensive line. I mean, I understand they want to get bigger and become more of mauler, but I mean, and I said this after they drafted Belton and that, that I just, I don't, they seem to want to push Rasheed Walker out the window.
00:26:04
Speaker
and I'm not sure about that one. They they want to try to like force Jordan Morgan into that position. They drafted Belton, who I guess could play guard but projects more as a right tackle, so that kind of pushes Zach Tom to somewhere.
00:26:27
Speaker
they They have Jacob Monk. They have they They drafted Williams, who I guess is playing more guard.
00:26:38
Speaker
They gave a high contract to that Donovan Jennings as a UDFA last year. so I mean, are they wanting Sean Ryan out of there too?
00:26:51
Speaker
i i just I'm so confused by a lot of the stuff that they're doing. I know they have an idea what they're doing, but it really hasn't shown obvious.
00:27:04
Speaker
And I understand that they always try to take one or two offensive linemen in the draft every year, but it just, where usually those are late round picks and they've they've been been spending a lot of high draft stock in and guys the last few years that I just, I don't know where they're going to put them.
00:27:24
Speaker
You know, is Elton on his way out? I know he's got a relatively large contract, but to you know, is he on his way out? is Are they expecting Zach Tom and Rashid Walker not to re resign?
00:27:35
Speaker
Are you know what what's going on? So really to come up with a roster bubble guy for this is so hard because you don't know what the hell they're doing. Right, and if you kind of look at, and I know that the depth chart isn't updated at this point, but if you just look at how it stands right now, you'd expect that, okay, the starting five is going to be Rashid. Excuse me me. What's his face? the
00:28:05
Speaker
Banks. Banks. It would be Rashid, Banks, Jenkins, thank you Ryan. yeah And Tom. Yeah. And then behind them, Morgan, Belton are but definitely making the roster.
00:28:18
Speaker
Based on how they talked about in last season, you'd expect Monk to make it. But even that I'm not sure of. And then after that, you know, they have a tendency to keep recent draft picks. So does that mean John Williams...
00:28:32
Speaker
has leapt Kadeem Telford and Travis Glover. I don't think any of the street free agent UDFAs have a chance of making this roster. and i don't know, because like I said, they're really high on Donovan Jennings because they gave him a ton of money last year.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah, Jennings might be the one that I'm like, okay, maybe he makes, you're right. So he might be the 10th guy, but yeah, this, the way that they went with two guys in Belton and Williams who are bigger than, you know, the average guy they've taken before, you'd think that,
00:29:03
Speaker
Glover is possibly on his way out the door and heford they're looking for someone else to take that roster spot. So who who knows? Like you said, there are so many. And then kind of, as you alluded to there's two guys on this line that they seem hellbent on replacing.
00:29:18
Speaker
Rasheed Walker and Sean Ryan, who both made... who both made improvements as the season went along. I thought I really stepped up but really stepped up their games as, you know, as as the season progressed.
00:29:32
Speaker
But they're both also in contract years this season. And on top of that, you've got to extend Zach Tom at some point this season. So, you know, you don't want to replace three starters, but also...
00:29:45
Speaker
replacing two starters is not that great of a thing either. So it's like, and so you're already, and that's the thing is you're already replacing one by putting Banks in there. And technically, you know, Jenkins I know has played center and stuff. So you've already got moving pieces. So are you going to go through two seasons in a row where you're just,
00:30:05
Speaker
in a sense, willfully changing up your starting O-line. And obviously, you know, the best surprise for Packers fans is one of Jordan Morgan or Anthony Belton just is like, takes the left tackle spot from Rasheed Walker and is just like, this is my starting spot. And we have, you know, we have answered the question on who is the left tackle for the next decade kind of thing. Like that would be the absolute, absolute best case scenario for the Packers moving forward.
00:30:35
Speaker
But I don't think that's anywhere near a foregone conclusion are likely of happening. And yeah, so the team has kept like nine or 10 offensive linemen.
00:30:47
Speaker
so like I said, you've got the starting five. I do, after that, I do expect... Definitely Belton, probably Monk, definitely Morgan to be kept. So you're at eight there.
00:30:58
Speaker
And then it's like, like you said, like, are they looking at the guys who played for who they drafted or played last year? And that's Glover and Telford.
Defensive Line and Linebacker Strategies
00:31:07
Speaker
Do they side with Williams? Who's the better athlete and kind of, in a sense fits their, their type of draft pick recently. You know, the college left tackle who's athletic, but isn't NFL sized and stuff. But yeah, it,
00:31:23
Speaker
I don't think it's gone. i just, I don't think he showed enough when he needed to, to play. So I think he can throw his name out the window Glover. I don't know because if you go by old standards, he doesn't match the Packers normal thresholds.
00:31:41
Speaker
But now if you go by what they did this year in the draft, he matches them perfectly. So, because he's basically, I'd have to look, but I think him and, uh,
00:31:54
Speaker
Belton are basically the same size. So I... Let's see if I can find it real quick. Belton is like a million times better athlete, though.
00:32:08
Speaker
Glover is 317. And... is 6'6", 335. So Belton's...
00:32:12
Speaker
and
00:32:14
Speaker
a belton a six six three thirty five so belton's weight heavier. So, but you can't say that about Glover because they were playing Glover out of position.
00:32:30
Speaker
They were trying to put him in as guard and i he couldn't do guard, but I think he could be a solid tackle. But who knows? I just, I got to think Telford's gone. And I think it just, it'll come down to who plays better during the preseason.
00:32:51
Speaker
whether it's glover jennings or uh williams or monk it'll come down to those four because i don't see them hard unless they pull off a trade of somebody during cut downs i don't know that's why i said offensive line even though we've got a great starting set the rest of it is just a mess because they've it's like that they're oversaturated we we wanted solid depth but now they're oversaturated in starters so who do you who do you put in to wear and i know some people are gonna do the like oh shouldn't they use that as like trade ammo and stuff like that
00:33:39
Speaker
if last season and the playoffs didn't teach you anything, they are, the Packers are not trading starting linemen unless they get the Kings bounty in return for trading those guys. Like you saw how fast they were down a guard, a center and all that kind of stuff in that playoff game. And I know that's not the norm, but that's the thing is like, you have to account for the worst of circumstances. And I don't think they're going to bring back, Oh shoot. What's his face.
00:34:08
Speaker
I don't think Dillard is coming back, and I don't think going to look for... I don't think they're looking for a vet starter. I think they've... In a way, they've got that because, hypothetically, your vet experience starter is if, like, Morgan beats out Rasheed for the... If Morgan or Belton beats out Rasheed for the starting spot, and then Rasheed is your swing tackle kind of thing. I think they're going for it for the the the the the experienced backup in the quote-unquote in the aggregate by, you know, if the guys they're hoping are in the wings, take those starting spots, then you kind of get that experienced backup in the aggregate. But yeah, these are all things that will, like I said,
00:34:58
Speaker
we're trying to have some discussion about it now, but a lot of these questions are going to need to be answered with regards to, you know, who's doing what in training camp has, you know, has Morgan, i know training camp won't really answer it but is he getting the first team snaps at left tackle is Belton getting first team snaps anywhere on the offensive line? Like I do think that'll answer a lot of questions.
00:35:23
Speaker
Moving on to the next position group. um um Okay, so this one is going to be a little weird because to i feel like to have the discussion, you have to link the defensive ends with the defensive tackles because you almost have to just talk about the d the whole D line as a whole.
00:35:40
Speaker
And that said, I'm going to make the call that Colin Oliver is a... He's going to be counted as a... I know that they said he's going to be a designated pass rusher, but I think for the sake of the roster numbers, they're going to call him a linebacker.
00:35:56
Speaker
They got him on the roster right now as a defensive lineman. Yeah. So... um almost I almost want to even include the linebackers in this one because I feel like they're going to look at it as such a congealed blob in terms of like how – everyone's like, oh, they've only kept four ends or five tackles.
00:36:16
Speaker
I don't think you can look at it that way. I think you've just got to look at it as front seven and they're like, we want the best 16 or 17 guys and that's who we're keeping on this roster. but So with defensive ends – you know You've got Baron Sorrell, and I guess Oliver floats in there, depending how you want to look at it. But in terms of incumbent players, you have Rashawn, Lucas, Kingsley, and Igbari.
00:36:41
Speaker
And then I feel like those three are definitely making the roster. two draft picks are definitely making the roster. And then... dip Like we said, this is where it kind of gets weird in terms of like how they classify Oliver.
00:36:55
Speaker
Where are they going to expect him to play this year? Because then depending on what they do with him, it's like... they're almost guaranteed the two draft picks. So are they just automatically saying bye-bye to Aaron Mosby and Brenton Cox Jr.?
00:37:10
Speaker
Or do they treat D-line as a conglomerate? Do they include the linebackers with that conglomerate, especially if Oliver is going to play some sort of hybrid position role?
00:37:20
Speaker
Because then I feel like that has to be the case for Mosby and Cox to have a shot at making this roster because...
Pass Rush and Linebacker Roster Moves
00:37:28
Speaker
any way Sorrell gets cut.
00:37:30
Speaker
And the only way Oliver doesn't make it is if he has some kind of injury or something like that. But how's your... And then, okay, let's just kind of go around the room. So then they added Swinson.
00:37:43
Speaker
I guess we'll talk about Stackhouse as well, purely because of the number he got given and the fact that they don't really have a nose tackle going into next season.
00:37:51
Speaker
Incumbents there are Kenny Clark, Devontae Wyatt. Wyatt is a definite lock. Kenny is basically a lock at this point to make the roster because of contract stipulation.
00:38:06
Speaker
And then Carl Brooks and Colby Wooden defensive tackle. So if we just look at end and tackle, how are you thinking? Like, do you think that of the three of – what's it called Cox, Mosby and Wooden that their three fates have been sealed basically by the draft?
00:38:29
Speaker
i I think they're going to get cutesy with it. And by that, I think that they're going to – I strongly believe that they're going to try moving Lucas inside.
00:38:41
Speaker
i think they're going to stop as him as an edge. So they're going to look at him more as a tackle. So that may open up the edge. And I know you're trying to combine them all together, but I think that's going to open up the edge room possibly for a guy like Brenton Cox or whatever.
00:38:59
Speaker
But, yeah, they're not going to keep all three. they If any of them, they'll keep one. I would probably push to say that Brenton Cox has the better shot at it because he seems to be more of a pure speed pass rusher.
00:39:15
Speaker
whereas a barry seems to be more of a toolsy type pass rusher mosby and out of all three of them cox and in a bar are a bit younger than mosby and it's only by a year mosby is listed as 26 the other two are listed at 25 so i think that helps them out in a case oliver pick i i don't know i know that you've said it and they've said it that You know, there he's purely a pass rusher, but size wise, he looks to be more of a linebacker. So maybe they will put him in that linebacker, but then we'll get to it here in a second. But they just added Isaiah Simmons to the linebacker room.
00:40:00
Speaker
So, you know, how is that going to work out with Simmons, McDuffie, and then your two starters? So,
00:40:13
Speaker
If I had to take a guess, they're going to keep one of the three and it'll probably be Cox. I think so. I agree. Of the three, he's the most likely to make it because i think they're going to look at his splash plays from last year.
00:40:28
Speaker
i know I've joked about how like little pressure he had on those where it was like he was the guy that the other team was like, if he beats us, whatever kind of thing.
00:40:39
Speaker
And like I said, he does deserve credit for converting on those opportunities. But... I think the Packers do look at him as he's the most lump of clay of the bunch to be like, okay, there' there's definitively something untapped potential there. Whereas the other two, it's like Mosby's been fine, but nothing special when he's gotten snaps and Wooden just hasn't been able to get on the field despite the wide injury and all that other kind of stuff. And the thing with Wooden is he's a cleaner.
00:41:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think he's just stuck all the way in tweener land. He feels like Mike Montgomery, who they drafted, I think, in 08. And then he made the team as a rookie, got cut, and then came back to be on the Super Bowl roster and stuff like that. But just never really fit the system and stuff. And he feels like... Wooden feels like that kind of player where, you know, he'll have a splash play every now and then. But...
00:41:36
Speaker
He just can't find a home in and which is a little damning because we've seen halfly find roles for so many different guys in this defense. And if you're a guy that halfly can't with his like kind of whiz brain find a role for that's you're just kind of shit out of luck at that point.
00:41:56
Speaker
And then. To move it back, umm so we've kind of decided, yeah, probably agree that Cox is the one out of that room to get a shot at coming back this year.
00:42:06
Speaker
Second level of the defense of the linebacker room. So you've got two locks are Quay and Edge Cooper. McDuffie is... I think for all intentses intents and purposes, a lock because of the contract he just signed.
00:42:21
Speaker
And then isaiah or not isai Tyron Hopper, who I can't see them giving up on in year two as a third former third-round pick.
00:42:30
Speaker
And then where this one gets a little murky is... Before the draft, I would have said that Christian Welch has a decent shot to make the roster this season, even with McDuffie signing his contract.
00:42:43
Speaker
But with... With, what's it called? the The drafting of Oliver. I'm a little hesitant now to give good odds to Welch making the roster.
00:42:55
Speaker
Like I said, if it was Hopper's third or fourth season, I could see him beating him out for that spot, but I can't see them giving up on a third round pick in year two.
00:43:06
Speaker
and that And that McDuffie just got that that contract that's like you know You saw different guys call it like a pseudo-starter contract for the the like the term and the number that he signed for. So what do you think? and then And then that's not even considering the Isaiah Simmons of the room, which I almost forgot as I scrolled past his name on over the cap right now. So what's the linebacker room looking like for you at this point?
00:43:38
Speaker
Depending on what they do for wide receiver, And the two, the offensive defensive line, there is way that they could keep all six of them. and because of the whole special teams play, i don't see, I mean, it's possible, but I don't see a world that Christian Welch re-signs with the Packers if it's not thing that they're saying you're going to make the team.
00:44:10
Speaker
because we liked what you did last year. oh Hopper, yeah, I don't know if they can cut ties with him yet, or maybe it's one of those that they hope that they can float him through to the practice squad.
00:44:25
Speaker
Simmons is probably going to be, okay, let's see what you can do, because he's young. He's 26, but he's been the league for bit. but you know he's been in the league for a bit and he still hasn't really found niche in being able to, you know, so it's going to be, a okay, well, if you do this, this, and this, you know, you're definitely going to make the roster. But out of them all, I think he's probably the one that that's expendable. Because, like I said, I just i don't know how they can bring Welch in
00:45:04
Speaker
after what happened last I mean it wasn't like a bad thing that happened last year but you would think that if he's getting other offers at a shot that why would he choose the Packers over anything else and and I think a lot of it's got to be that he can play special teams and then can fill in when needed on the field so right now out of all of them I think Simmons is the more expendable where And Hopper may be the wild card to think that maybe because he really didn't show much last year that they could sneak him through to the practice squad.
00:45:44
Speaker
Yeah, i and that scenario you highlighted is they only keep five wide receivers. They don't keep six. then all three of the guys we talked about for the D-line room are cut. And then around that, they keep only three running backs and three tight ends, basically. And, you know, like, that's where you start to, like, then the roster would be shifted towards defense. You know, you have 53 guys. Yeah.
00:46:09
Speaker
three of those roster spots are for the kicker, punter, and long snapper. And then, you know, you you get the, like, it's a 26-24 split for, like, 26 defensive players, 24 offensive players, and all that
Secondary and Safety Position Battles
00:46:22
Speaker
kind of stuff. So, yeah, like, also what would help is if they only keep nine nine offensive linemen, not 10 and stuff. So, yeah, like you said, it's a little bit of wiggle room, but that is a good point. Like, I don't know how much...
00:46:37
Speaker
real leg legway there is for like the fifth or sixth linebacker on a 4-3 team to get, but you're right. Like for, for, for Welch to come back to green Bay, I don't think that's just the, like, that's my hometown team kind of thing. Like,
00:46:54
Speaker
I don't think that kind of storybook stuff really flies. Like you said, he's looking for his best shot to like make it in the NFL. So why, like you said, not that they're going to make promise promises for that kind of player, but you are looking for someone to take the Eric Wilson role. You know, that, that guy who's like a spot starter on defense, but a top performer on special teams.
00:47:18
Speaker
You know, McDuffie does a lot there, but I think Welch, with his better athleticism and size, is the better special teams player. and
00:47:28
Speaker
Kwe's not going to play special teams. You don't want him or Cooper playing special teams at this point. Like, you can't risk injury there. And then, yeah, it's like... So it's like Welch is... yeah Like you said, I don't think they would break out or break away from Hopper unless, yeah, like there's an injury or they think they can sneak him through on waivers to the practice squad.
00:47:50
Speaker
But I agree. Like, he's back, like, with the... You know, we see you as a potential captain of our special teams with the potential to grow into a role on defense. and And it really does.
00:48:02
Speaker
It does. The whole situation really does make you scratch your head on why they didn't just keep him last offseason. Like, it really does, like, kind of, like, make you wonder, like... Was he supposed to come back to the practice squad, but Denver scooped him up kind of thing or Baltimore or whatever scooped him but So yeah, it raises so many questions and stuff, but yeah, it's, it's kind of like a, like what happened there?
00:48:25
Speaker
And then in the secondary, I'm not going to draw too many. they They didn't draft anyone of supreme you know consequence in the cornerback or safety room. Well, they didn't draft the safety, and then you you know they only took Michael Robinson in the seventh round. So it's really just Jair or question mark in that regard.
00:48:45
Speaker
And then in the safety room, I mostly think that, yeah, they're going to stick with what they've got there because it's kind of like, all right, you've got you've got obviously a Xavier, Bullard,
00:48:57
Speaker
Evan Williams, and then probably Kitano Ladapo is going to make it. And then after that, I just don't even know who the fifth safety could or would be at this point.
00:49:07
Speaker
Feel free to correct me if you've got one in mind, but I don't. And then in the cornerback Honestly, I haven't seen any news out of it yet, but there's a couple of guys that they brought in for the rookie training camp or rookie mini camp that was making some waves. So there's uh there's kazir uh quote bugs brown who is like a massive man at safety and then i've heard good things about jonathan baldwin out of unlv so i mean there's a possibility out of those guys that can come in they do have tyron
00:49:47
Speaker
tyrant pairing out of Delaware are on roster as an undrafted free agent. So that could be, you know, but you've pointed it out that Gutekunst has said all offseason that they like the guys in the room. They just need to add more depth there.
00:50:03
Speaker
So, you know, Robinson obviously is a depth guy that could potentially be something Or he could be the Rich Bisaccia guy that Rich said, all right, we want him because he's going to play our special team spot for us.
00:50:20
Speaker
So that could be all, all that could be that pick. But, you know, like I said, I was seeing good things out of both Brown and Baldwin that they could be guys that could be sleepers to make the the 53 out ah ah at the end of camp.
00:50:43
Speaker
But really, and again, unless they get really cutesy, I think everything's set. Maybe Kaylin King will stay on the active roster instead of being a practice squad guy.
00:50:58
Speaker
They do have Hayden oh as a corner. And they liked him because they brought him up a couple different times.
00:51:12
Speaker
Omar Brown, I know, was well-liked as a UDFA last year. and of course, you got Mr. Zane Anderson over there.
00:51:21
Speaker
So i think this is another case where they've got all the pieces or all the starters that they need.
00:51:31
Speaker
It's just now figuring out what they're going to do with depth. you know Do we want to keep a guy that's got a little bit of more experience than a Zane Anderson, or do you want to keep a guy that's got a little bit of upside with you know Bugs or Brown?
00:51:47
Speaker
Well, that's funny. Both of them are both Browns. So either Bugs Brown or Omar Brown, you know which one do you want out of that? I'd have to look it up, but I know Bugs Brown is like,
00:51:59
Speaker
huge He was massive. I can't even remember what his stats were, but it was like so he was like the size of a linebacker.
Offensive Roster Post-Draft Evaluation
00:52:11
Speaker
oh six Well, maybe that wasn't. Yeah, 6'3", 210 is what he's listed in on FAU's website.
00:52:22
Speaker
knows, you know who knows but Again, just to go back to my point, they've got the starting pieces. It's just trying to figure out what their depth is going to look like. And can somebody finally please beat out Zane Anderson?
00:52:43
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I know. we'll We'll find out. The international man, a mystery. And then, you know, like I said, we we touched on wide receiver already after the draft. tight end room, I feel like there's no real mystery there. I don't see it going another route except for the three guys who have made the roster in. Unless they think Messiah Swenson is dead.
00:53:05
Speaker
deserving of a roster spot. Yeah, exactly. But otherwise, I see them just They did bring back John Fitzpatrick, though, so who knows? He could be the new... Tyler Davis.
00:53:17
Speaker
Yeah. I think so. Really, I've really just got three spots for that room. I've got the big and it's the quote unquote, the big name Musgrave, Kraft and Ben Sims. And obviously, you know, maybe one of those, maybe Fitzpatrick or or Swinson either takes a fourth spot or dupes it out with Sims for that third tight end spot. But feel like that room room is relatively set.
00:53:43
Speaker
Quarterback room... Like I said, the only reason there's any sort of change up there is if they get a call from, if there's an injury on another team and someone's like, we'll give you whatever you want for Malik Willis at this point.
00:53:55
Speaker
Otherwise, I think it's going to be Love and Willis. And honestly, they probably cut Clifford and let him go to free agents, you know, like to just gamble that he'll be there to sign back onto the practice squad, which I can't see why he wouldn't be, honestly.
00:54:09
Speaker
And then... Unless that Canadian kid beats him out who's supposed to have a wicked arm. And then at running back, running back might be the sneaky the sneaky surprise one in terms of like someone who unexpectedly makes the roster.
00:54:26
Speaker
So Jacobs is a lock. I feel like Marshawn Lloyd is in the same room as probably a little higher than Teron Hopper where, because with Lloyd, LeFleur very clearly had a plan for him, how he was going to break him in as a rookie, utilize him and of set him up for success early in the season.
00:54:48
Speaker
ankle injury and then the appendectomy put that in the shitter early on in the season. But I do think he's a lock. And then then it kind of gets into the question, do they keep four running backs to keep Emmanuel Wilson and Chris Brooks on the roster? Or because of positional value at other spots, do they have those two guys duke it out for the third running back spot? and And there I'm not sure who would win that because...
00:55:12
Speaker
I think Wilson is the better running back, but Brooks does all of the gadgety stuff and is the better blocker that allows them to play the the pony package and all that kind of stuff. So it it kind of is...
00:55:26
Speaker
open to, you know, considerate eye of the beholder kind of stuff in terms of who gets that running back three spot. So, like I said, that's the only spot that I really have of intrigue going into the season on offense. I think everything else, and obviously we'll see where the O-line breaks down, but, I have no idea what direction
Fan Engagement and Episode Ideas
00:55:45
Speaker
they're going there. And I think you agree that it's, it's a mystery box at that position, but,
00:55:52
Speaker
We've managed to turn this into a one-hour episode. we We do what we do best. We find some topics. we You don't want to talk about the punters? but Oh, no, because I trust the Irish. There's another absolute union.
00:56:06
Speaker
Oh my God, I can't... Yeah, that that one, no, I trust Whelan, but that is hilarious that, of all things, they signed a six-fucking-foot-nine punter. Like, but thats that is one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen on a football roster.
00:56:25
Speaker
I am curious, like... I think Whelan has proven himself as such an effective player the past two seasons, especially, like I said, covering Orzic's horrible, overrated ass as a long snapper.
00:56:39
Speaker
But it would be a real surprise if the I don't even know what that kid's name is. If that if I can't think of it either. But I yeah remember that he's like six, nine, two thirty or something. Yeah. um um Oh, you see, and that's the thing. he's like He's not even listed here because he's like a because he's like a a training camp tryout guy. He's not even like a signed UDFA. So, yeah. I guess the only other one is if Alex Hale is going to unseat.
00:57:09
Speaker
If Alex Hale is going to unseat Brandon McManus for the kicking spot. Oh, there it is.
00:57:17
Speaker
They did have a kicker and a long snapper in for tryout player two. Yeah.
00:57:24
Speaker
But yeah, I doubt that Hale is going to get a real shot to unseat McManus unless he just blows the door off training camp because the deal that McManus is signed to. um would be kind of rough to move on from that deal so fast. The only thing I can think of is as far as i know he's the only one uh that's there as a uh their international yeah so yeah like unless they sign another international guy he's probably back unless they're considering that kid from canada as a possible right international guy
00:58:09
Speaker
Yeah, that would be the only one. and even then, he'd have to be cut and designated and all that kind of stuff. So it's not the, what's it called? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. how i don't I still don't understand how all that works because so far, the Packers have had two of them and haven't used either one of them.
00:58:27
Speaker
Yeah, so... Like I said, that puts a wrap on it. we we've managed to strike We've managed to stretch ah ah an obscure topic into a full one-hour episode.
00:58:39
Speaker
don't want to drag it out any further than we've managed to at this point. But Joe, any other thoughts as we go into the next week of the dead season? Anything that's jumped to mind as we've discussed the obscurities of the Packers offseason roster?
00:58:53
Speaker
Not really, because like I said, it looks like for the Packers, they have all the starters figured out. They just don't know what they're doing with the depth and their roster building in certain aspects is is confusing.
00:59:11
Speaker
But training camp can't get here soon enough so we can get through and see what they're planning. Yep. So we'll put a wrap on it for today.
00:59:22
Speaker
Please check out the website, Ohana Packers.org. Sorry, I'm getting it all out of order. but Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Ohana Packers edition podcast. Check out our website, Ohana Packers.org.
00:59:33
Speaker
You can get of our articles that are being put out in the, um I said, as we were in the shadow of the NFL draft updates on roster spots, Jair's situation, ongoing contract negotiations, all of that has been discussed on the site and we'll continue to cover that as we get further into the offseason.
00:59:52
Speaker
Check out the shop there, buy merch, support the channel. don't think Joe has replaced all of the equipment that walked off on its own while he was in Green Bay for the draft yet. So please continue to buy merch to allow Joe to reconcile and replace what he has done.
01:00:08
Speaker
has lost over the over the trip to the draft, and support us in our endeavors to make it to some games and be able to do some like, uh, live correspondence of a sort in that regard.
01:00:20
Speaker
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01:00:39
Speaker
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01:00:49
Speaker
And if you have any episode ideas, please give them to us that we can fill in the dead spaces of the this point of the offseason. Otherwise, we're going to resort to top five lists and things and the kind of smoke and mirrors that we've used the last couple of offseasons. So...
01:01:05
Speaker
you have any ideas for episodes and you want to hear our opinions on, please send those in to us and we'll make something out of it. We promise. But the Packers march along into the further into the 2025 offseason for Iowa Joe. I'm Mike Kawano.
01:01:20
Speaker
Go Pack Go and Aloha.