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TNG: "The Chase" (s6e20)
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THE BRITISH MUSEUM is alive and well in the 24th century in the form of Captain Picard's old archeology professor Galen, whose shuttlecraft no doubt holds artifacts from countless civilizations taken from their native lands with a reckless abandon. But during all that grave robbing, Galen stumbled upon proof that there is no God, at least as we understand one. His death spurs Picard to take the Enterprise on a rogue mission to complete a galactic jigsaw puzzle.
Bryan & Kristen review a pivotal episode for Picard's backstory that just so happens to be the impetus for the season mystery in Star Trek: Discovery's final season. They also talk about the beauty of Grace Kelly and escape rooms. Is this one a TREK, MARRY, or KILL?
The grades begin at (17:32).
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Transcript
Episode Preview: Star Trek Mystery
00:00:00
Speaker
Next on Trek Mary Kill. Cardassians, Klingons, Romulans. Engage. begins for the most incredible discovery of the 24th century. This is a jigsaw puzzle whose pieces are scattered across the galaxy. But the Federation's greatest empires will kill to possess it. We will die together, brother. Now Picard risks his entire career to unravel its dangerous secret. I will take the full responsibility. Before this unknown power changes destiny forever. but Next time on Star Trek The Next Generation.
00:00:40
Speaker
Mary Kill.
Meet the Hosts and Podcast Premise
00:00:45
Speaker
Hi I'm Brian. Hi I'm Kristen. Welcome to Trek Merry Kill, a Star Trek podcast where we grade and then render a final judgment on episode Star Trek like an android arm wrestling and Klingon. That's right. A lot of buildup and posturing for what's ultimately like a quick decision. Right. Don't you think we mostly great have our final grade in mind before we sit down to go through our reviews? Maybe you do.
00:01:13
Speaker
I draw upon a lot of experience from growing up with a lot of these episodes and watching them so many times that now when I sit down and I have the choice of selecting which one to watch, I'm like, I've seen that one 12 or 15 times. Can I get out of it? Well, for me, I'm like um a low information undecided swing state voter. well I don't know what I'm going to do until I get into that voting booth.
00:01:40
Speaker
That's great to know. That's actually perfect to know, because ah my thoughts on this episode have changed so much over the years. I don't even know what to think. I didn't know what to think when I sat down to
'The Chase': Episode Overview and Themes
00:01:50
Speaker
watch it. We're talking about The Chase, which is the 20th episode of Star Trek The Next Generation 6 season. It premiered in syndication April 26, 1993, teleplay by Joe Manosky from a story by Ron Moore and Joe Manosky, directed by the mayor of Star Trek, Jonathan Frakes.
00:02:08
Speaker
ah Memory Alpha's description, Picard tries to finish his old archaeology teacher's monumental last mission, solving a puzzle that leads humans, Romulans, Klingons, and Cardassians to the secret of life in this galaxy, revealing the origin of humanoid life. That's a pretty accurate encapsulation of the episode. These unnamed aliens encoded a message in the DNA of all humanoid species to play a message that says that they were the first!
00:02:35
Speaker
And only intelligent life in the galaxy at one point. And rather than let themselves die out and simply not exist, they decided to seed life on different planets so that they would be the progenitors of the Milky Way, essentially. Yeah, the ultimate narcissist. Yes.
First Impressions of 'The Chase'
00:02:51
Speaker
ah The word progenitor is not used here, but it will be in Star Trek Discovery, which uses this episode as the basis for the season mystery in its final season, which we'll be playing Trek Mary Kill with starting next week, which is why we're doing this one. ah Do you remember the first time you saw this episode, Kristen? I don't, but I was like a pre-Tina, you know, around that time.
00:03:14
Speaker
I mean, I think i the first time I saw it was I think after it had aired initially. I see. But not too much later. Yeah, I remember watching this one very clearly when it came out as like a shot in the arm because I was not ah I was not grokking the next generation at that point. and Not in terms of like I was too good for it, but I was kind of bored by some of the episodes. The one before this was the one where Picard falls in love with that woman lessons where he's playing the flute.
00:03:44
Speaker
and know I wasn't the right age for that particular story. Before that was Starship Mine, which was kind of exciting. It was like Die Hard, but it was Captain Picard fighting a bunch of terrorists. And then before that, you had like one of the, probably one of the least successful two-parters TNG ever did. Birthright, where Worf tries to find his dad who may be survived
Star Trek Themes: Exploration and God
00:04:06
Speaker
may have survived. And then Data gets shocked by something that Dr. Bashir has.
00:04:11
Speaker
and goes on this has a dream or something. Anyway, I don't know. I wasn't feeling this particular run. So this one I was like, oh, this is kind of interesting. It's not just about our characters backstory or some. um but It's like about Star Trek. It's about like exploration or discovering something new. What is a little bit about?
00:04:31
Speaker
Yes, yes, that's fair. But one that didn't feel like, it felt like we delved into more about him that was, I don't know if it was interesting or not as much as like we saw a side of Patrick Stewart, I don't recall seeing for a while. Because even when he's falling in love, he's still pretty buttoned up. He's still pretty British in that episode.
00:04:54
Speaker
ah But here he's like going, oh my God, he's losing his mind from from ah from archaeology, from artifacts. ah But this episode is a pretty explicit statement that there is no God in the heaven sense, but perhaps in the biological sense. Yeah. So God is like a distant relative kind of by the way, like if there is a God, that is my most logical explanation is like someone planted some seeds, but they have absolutely no control over the daily lives of me and you. Well, that's what I do. That's what I think about when I think about the Big Bang. I'm like, where did all these little bits come from? Yeah, you can make a tiny universe in a particle collider these days, so we could be someone's pet universe, but they have no way of knowing or influencing our daily lives besides, I don't know, I guess, blowing up the universe if they wanted to. Yeah.
00:05:50
Speaker
I'll talk about this a little bit later, but like this is an inversion of what Star Trek usually is, right? Star Trek usually is like they find God and God is an asshole. And it's so a little bit different this time around. Or it's like a bizarre nebula that has like very strange priorities. That's right.
Childhood Aspirations and Influences
00:06:10
Speaker
We're never going to let that go, folks, because she's not just talking about that nebula, Deborah. There are others that have weird priorities too. That's right. Nagila, he wanted to see what it would be like to kill people. Yeah, that's true. This episode also raises this other aspect. ah A thing that I haven't really thought about until the third viewing of of this episode was like, oh yeah, I used to really, I really wanted to be a teacher when I was a child and I had some close relationship. Do you know whether to know why that is? Why is that?
00:06:44
Speaker
Most children want to be teachers because it's the only profession they come into daily contact with. OK, so I'm just an idiot. So did you? No, no, no, I also wanted to be a teacher because like, oh, here's somebody on the job that I see every day. But if you you know. If you had, I don't know, grown up in a blacksmith apprentice shop, that's what you would want to be instead, like. I mean, but I mean, I think the same thing where like when People get taken to work a lot by their parents. They might see their parents doing their job every day, but most of us don't.
Philosophical Reflections on God and Existence
00:07:23
Speaker
Did you have any close relationships with any teachers or fondness for teachers? ah Yeah, see, I was um a funny child, so um teachers seemed to like that. Oh, that's good. That's good.
00:07:38
Speaker
Very dry sense of humor. That was always the thing. She has a very dry sense of humor, a pleasure to have in class. Doesn't do much homework, does not live up to potential, but made a very good joke about, you know, whatever Shakespeare in the last week or whatever. Pithy. Really went on this tangent about Steinbeck for some reason. But anyway, I'm kidding. I would never I mean i would never read a Steinbeck book.
00:08:07
Speaker
Strong opinions about Jimmy Stewart in Rear Window. never It never came up in class. I'm so sad. So sad that never came up in class. Imagine me as a 12-year-old, why doesn't he just fuck her?
00:08:24
Speaker
Why is he looking out his window? Mind his own damn business. My thought while watching the movie actually aligns with this episode pretty perfectly.
Picard's Alternate Life as Diplomat
00:08:32
Speaker
This episode is kind of vaguely about God or a God figure. And I'm like, you know, if God was like, I'm going to put an angel on Earth and I'm going to name it Grace Kelly, and it's going to be one of the most beautiful features in her baby. She's going to come from a wealthy family in Philadelphia. She's going to be a knockout also. She's going to fuck a lot. Wait, what's that old timey, like, I don't think they called it, but like,
00:08:54
Speaker
The um term for so like a, oh gosh, what the hell? Like for someone who's like like insatiable sex drive, I can't remember the term for it. Like it used to be like a quasi-scientific term. Nymphomaniac or whatever. Nymphomaniac, yes. Okay, so like, I think there's a quote from Judy Garland. Someone's like, is was Grace Kelly really a, is she really a an nymphomaniac? And Judy Garland's quote is, if you could calm her down,
00:09:31
Speaker
I'm like blacking out. That's on the record. I feel like we can keep that. I think all this stuff is actually on the record. Okay. Like the eyewitness counts of like, i then I went around and made her drink, I came back, she's just naked on the couch and well, you know, what was I supposed to do, throw her out?
00:09:54
Speaker
So it's even funnier. The weird windows that was even funnier. In this episode. Yeah. Back to this one. I definitely had some like teachers I was very fond of in childhood and like my first grade teacher, my fifth grade teacher and then um In college, I had teach professors I liked, but I think even to this day, I cannot fathom because I wasn't like a PhD or anything like that. I can't fathom having that close of a connection with the professor.
Behind the Scenes of 'The Chase'
00:10:29
Speaker
You know what I mean? So many years later,
00:10:31
Speaker
I still thought it was a nice thing to have, especially the way Picard explains that. Oh, I had a father, but this dude actually liked me and understood like that actually made a lot of sense to me. And then obviously Picard cares about the man so much, even though we'd never heard of him before that in season seven, when he's kidnapped by pirates and he's, you know,
00:10:52
Speaker
off on his own doing whatever he calls himself Galen. So like it's it's a meaningful relationship. One, I kind of wish they would have that's where the starting point for Star Trek Picard should have been is like, yes, Picard's a diplomat, whatever. But if he ever left Starfleet, he would be an ancient, shaky, rickety old Indiana Jones. And he wasn't. And I was kind of bummed by that. It's such a distinct part of his personality. I think really this episode is what clinches that. But Some memory alpha notes before getting to the grades. This episode marks the first time, believe it or not, that humans, Klingons, Romulans, and Cardassians appear in the same episode. ah The episode was inspired by Carl Sagan's Contact, originally published in 1985 and would later be a major motion picture directed by Robert Zemeckis in 1997. Also, without ending that a little,
00:11:47
Speaker
Yes, yes. yeah And is the they should have sent a poet line in the book, I wonder? I don't know. I didn't read the book. Also, obviously, Prometheus, the movie the the Alien prequel movie directed by Ridley Scott,
00:12:03
Speaker
is very similar. like Literally it starts with the engineers seething life on earth. So ah Joe Manosky was intrigued by trying to explain why Star Trek was usually filled with people with bumps on their forehead. I mean, it was budget reasons, but I guess he was like, what if there was a story reason for that? So that was part of, that was the impetus for this idea in part. The original drafts were too cartoony, like it's a mad, mad, mad, mad world level of Zany.
00:12:33
Speaker
ah More stated in the Star Trek Next Generation companion that he'd considered but intentionally did not specify that the ancient humanoids were the preservers from the original series episode, the Paradise Syndrome. He added, but this could be them and be internally consistent. Kristen, you and I will be grading the Paradise Syndrome later on in our theme month of Inner Lights, the different episodes across the series where basically our captains live separate lives that are not based on being a starship captain. Anyway, Jonathan Frakes was disappointed at not being able to shoot this episode outside
00:13:13
Speaker
ah yeah
Philosophical Implications: Existence and Memory
00:13:15
Speaker
He says, I think it does look like Planet Hell, but that's the way it goes. The money was being spent across the street at Deep Space Nine. I don't think it's a secret. However, set designer Richard James noted that it was impossible to shoot outside as the crew had been unable to find a salt flat without veg vegetation as the episode demanded. Okay. I think that's actually the cop-out explanation. Yeah.
00:13:38
Speaker
Where the production director goes, ah this has vegetation. We can't shoot here. You can fake it. Also in the 90s, crews were like, ah there was no environmental impact studies. They were definitely stepping on endangered species plant life. Yeah. where They were moving their trucks and equipment. That stuff was not a concern. So they could paint rocks like over moss, whatever.
00:14:01
Speaker
The production staff felt this was the most Roddenberry-esque TNG g episode. Jonathan, which is weird because Gene Roddenberry created the show, but okay, whatever. That's a weird statement. Jonathan Frakes remarked, the speech that Salome Jens makes at the end would make Roddenberry very proud, I think. It's a great cast and it's wonderful to have all those villains and aliens in one place. I'm not sure I agree with that. You probably like it. That broad's too ugly. Let's spice it up a little.
00:14:28
Speaker
Of course, Salome Jens would go on to play one of the founders, the main founder who hooks up with Odo, and she's in many episodes of Deep Space Nine, and a similar looking character, the same kind of flat face. But anyway, I guess this made an impression.
00:14:43
Speaker
I don't think this would be like Roddenberry wouldn't necessarily love it, but I think he would like the idea like, oh, yeah, there is no God. We just have each other like life. kit Like that part, I think he would would appreciate ah Rick Berman, though, didn't think quite ah this episode quite as highly. He said, conceptually, it's very interesting. I always had some problems with dealing with the whole idea of these kind of prehistoric creatures who are the fathers of us all. It's not Roddenberry esque. It's very sixties Roddenberry esque. That comment doesn't quite make sense.
00:15:11
Speaker
unless I think about how Rick Berman actually knew Roddenberry in the 80s 90s who is a distinctly different Gene Roddenberry from the one in the 60s so maybe that's true. I think this episode feels a lot like a first season episode where if you just change the music to that synthy garbage from season one You could make this a season one episode pretty easily. Like right down to like the setup of Picard just being like, oh, this is amazing. You know, like talking about this Kerlyn Nescos thing, it's just the way it's directed and shot, the way it visually looks, that kind of puts it in a different time.
00:15:47
Speaker
But between Picard's fascination with something other than being in Star Trek and then, like, Troi trying to be there and he yells at Troi for, like, trying to talk about his feelings, that's all very season one. So I agree in in part that there is something about it that feels familiar and old. And then because this is something that has stuck with me ever since the end of Star Trek Generations in 1994, I'm going to let Memory Alpha tell it, but I didn't need Memory Alpha to tell me this.
00:16:15
Speaker
to know that like this episode six of my craw for this very specific reason. Despite Picard's obvious delight at being given the Kerlin Nescus in the beginning of the episode, he casually discards it among the wreckage of the Enterprise D in Star Trek Generations in favor of the Picard family album.
Key Scenes and Character Dynamics
00:16:33
Speaker
In Remembrance, the first episode of Picard, the Nescus OK, he literally tosses this 12000 year old thing. And because it's just a prop, it's all glued together. It doesn't open up. But he like picks it from the bottom and like chucks it over his shoulder. and And I was so bummed by the end of Star Trek Generations because they had killed Kirk and they had destroyed the Enterprise. So I was really upset. And then I see this and I'm like, wait a minute. It was like literally 15 months ago. We're saying like this is like one of the most important things that Picard has ever seen in his life. And he's chucking it up.
00:17:08
Speaker
so Well, spoilers for generations. Oh, okay. So anyway, that's... Do you want to talk about Grace Kelly some more? Is that is that where we're going? No. Okay, all right.
00:17:24
Speaker
but All right, Grace. Well, do what you want to do. Just watch this episode. Calm down. Just cool your jets, Grace Kelly. Let's get into the grades. Great scenes.
00:17:36
Speaker
OK, so I think I have five. OK. I just really I really like Captain Picard just ah geeking out over this likely stolen ancient artifact. And he's just getting so excited. He's like a model train guy or something. It's pretty great. Yeah, it's it's just the joy that he's he's got going on and he's explaining it. And it's like, I don't really care what he's saying. I just like how excited he is.
00:18:05
Speaker
And then um later when Professor Galen tries to guilt trip him into going on this expedition with him, just like the body language of Picard of just being like, I mean, like dad's like really upset. who But yeah, i I just like that dynamic of he's the dad that understood me. And then when Beverly Crusher was later in the lab and she figures out that DNA sequence. Code thing.
00:18:35
Speaker
I like Beverly Crusher kind of solving the riddle. I'm in the meeting with the Cardassian and Klingon captains in the observation room. um It's great. The Cardassian captain is really lainted on thick, but I think I'm going to like allow it. I mean, they both are. I mean, yeah.
00:18:58
Speaker
No, no. clay I mean, the club you yeah for ah you expect from the Klingon captain to be like, hi there, I'm a Klingon. And then last but not least, Data Arm Wrestling, the Klingon captain and Ten Forward. Of course. Like, how can you not?
00:19:17
Speaker
How can you not? He challenges him, he loses, he tries to headbutt him, he fails, and then he tries to bribe him and
Star Trek Tropes in 'The Chase'
00:19:25
Speaker
he leaves. Yeah. That's the whole scene. It's like a bit of levity in this. I mean, I think it sounded like they would have so much plot to get through that they're not going to have anything like that, but that was great.
00:19:39
Speaker
I think, I mean, it almost feels like the episode was short, but it also seems like they didn't actually have enough material for a middle. and so it's like that's more than they So they found this fun moment, which i I really appreciated. Yeah, I had three great scenes. You already mentioned two of them. um But with the observation allowance, let me just say like, just the idea, like not only in that performance, is it great to see Picard that way, but just like you get it. You do see the whole other life that this man could have had. I think that's like a really, that's really great, especially this late in the run. It doesn't quite feel forced. It feels a little weird maybe, but not like forced force. Anyway. And then the last great scene that we haven't mentioned is I liked when the Romulan commander reached out to Picard at the end.
00:20:23
Speaker
Yeah, when he's like, we we we met as nice we are similar. I would say the Romulan is hamming it up so much. It's hard. It's it was hard to take it seriously on his end. But yeah, I did like that. But oh, boy.
00:20:36
Speaker
Yeah, I wonder if they could have gotten Tomalak. I wonder if there was any discussion of getting him in there. Tomalak. Picard says Tomalak, but Tomalak in there just, to I don't know, but maybe that would have been too familiar and then that yeah that moment wouldn't have hit his heart. Anyway, I like that idea of connection and thought it was great. All right, best trek tropes. Okay. Jean-Luc Picard has some daddy issues.
00:21:04
Speaker
um Yeah, he just goes on and on about, you know, ah or like a different life that he could have had, but he doesn't regret the one he has. But also he could connect with this guy that maybe he should go with him anyway, like just the back and forth of that. And then we have, oops, we accidentally destroyed a ship.
00:21:26
Speaker
They cut out the explanation of why one phaser blast blew it up. And that was basically because it was also chasing gayline that overextended itself. So it's like systems were wrong anyway. And then yeah and ah it's DNA.
00:21:44
Speaker
ah yeah
00:21:48
Speaker
And data oh data is very strong. Yeah, that's a good one. I like a lot. and this one And this one's not necessarily specific to Geordi, but it is specific to whoever's in engineering. Geordi tells the captain, you better come down here. You might want to see this.
00:22:09
Speaker
And you know what? He's right. ah To this day, I mean, it's like, that's just TV because it's like, oh, something important must have been said. Oh, we're not going to know about it. But you need to have that scene in there so that it's not like a complete surprise that you're like, wait, what? They knew that there was a plan and oh, no, no, you need to have that scene in there. Yeah. But like no more than that. Yeah.
Jonathan Frakes' Directing Skills
00:22:32
Speaker
And then ah my last one, the real chase was the friends we made along the way.
00:22:40
Speaker
but ah Picard and Crusher's breakfast get togethers. It's it's yeah i consciously I consciously register. But now I do. And like this episode actually the the spine of it the of the investigation is Picard and Beverly's breakfast. And I guess lunch like just figuring things out on their pads. So I thought that was a nice bit of continuity. And I don't know, for people who stand that relationship, that's a good, you know, it's a good ah episode for that.
00:23:12
Speaker
Okay. The diplomatic seating in the observation lounge. Maybe this is just you like the scene where it was Picard and the Cardassian captain and the Klingon captain. I would ever that scene, but mainly I liked it because it was the observation lounge when it's configured and Picard's having to negotiate with two people. But the only other time I can remember it is when it's Duras and Gowron, but I still like that configuration to show like, no, Picard is going to talk his way through this problem.
00:23:40
Speaker
Uh, I like just the visual of it of like, we're negotiating. And then the other one was, uh, Jonathan Frakes being a great TV director. Is that the best trick joke? I think it should be. Sure. It's not a worst trick trope.
00:23:54
Speaker
like I kind of think the only reason why I enjoy this episode at all anymore is that is the direction of it. Because like I said, it feels like a season one episode. And if anyone remember a season one of TNG, there was mostly not great episodes. And the direction was always something left wanting in that in that season with some few exceptions. And I just want to point out a couple of things. Actually, I really want to just point out one thing.
00:24:20
Speaker
to encapsulate my whole point. So the scene the scene where they arrive at Atalia 7 after Galen's been killed and they finally are trying to figure out what he was doing and backtracking his path. They scan the planet. They don't understand why Galen would have visited there. There's no life, no whatever. So then Picard decides to go to injury 8. And the way Frakes blocks the scene is interesting because it's really just them talking.
00:24:47
Speaker
like this planet, this planet, this planet has all these has no life. It has some life. It has this kind of life. And it's just a boring exposition scene that's not really emotional, but it's everyone like being detectives. And it's framed in this way because he's he's so clear like it's his fellow actors. So in that shot, it's stacked very nicely with Riker over data.
00:25:10
Speaker
And then Picard's kind of like walking in between helm and and ops. So he's cutting a path there. But then if you notice, Riker has set, Frakes has set himself up his body so that between Data's head and his body is a little like diamond shape of space where you can see Troy.
00:25:29
Speaker
And he has Troy lean to her right, sitting in her chair in a way that she normally wouldn't, but where you can clearly see her face. And so then you can see her the entire scene. And because Marina Sertes is a great actor, she's paying attention and reacting to everything that they're saying.
00:25:46
Speaker
and then she's like looking at Worf being like, the captain's being weird here. So I just thought that normally Troy would just get blocked, right? Especially if it's like an old guy directing the episode. They're like, who cares? And because Frakes cares about his his players, his his posse, he's making sure everyone's in the shot.
Plot Issues and Narrative Interest
00:26:04
Speaker
That's great directing. He's a great director. I just enjoyed that. Anyway, where's Trek Tropes?
00:26:10
Speaker
Should they be touching this ancient artifact with their bare hands? oh my gosh i mean And yes furthermore, is Professor Galen employed by the British Museum? Is he just allowed to take whatever he wants from whatever planet?
00:26:27
Speaker
and give it away to the whatever passing Starfleet captain he finds. They never show us the inside of that shuttle, but I have to imagine there's just like... Yeah! That shuttle isn't in the... It looks like a Nazi bunker filled with art, like stolen artwork and stuff. Filled with national treasures. Oh, any other ones? This is...
00:26:52
Speaker
Not so much a Star Trek trope, but it is a television trope and a trope of life that I don't care for. Instead of going to therapy to deal with his guilt and grief, Captain Picard embarks on an intergalactic quest on company time.
00:27:11
Speaker
like That's one of my worst tricks. You weaned tied to mine, which is that Picard is basically ah going rogue. Yeah. and the What do you think I'm doing? ah Going on some wild goose chase because I can't do a grief? Yes. That is exactly what you were doing.
00:27:27
Speaker
He's gone. He's like requested detached duty. I think that happens in season seven in the episode where he's presumed dead and then Riker requests and the enterprise gets placed on detached duty. But here he's like, we have to go to these negotiations. He's like, no, yeah they're waiting for them. They're like, fuck them.
00:27:44
Speaker
They blew up a sovereign entity's vessel. No paperwork there, no stopping to deal with authorities there. Where the flagship warping around blowing shit up. A whole planet's atmosphere is new. Outside of Federation space, a whole biosphere was new. But they left. They didn't hang around.
00:28:09
Speaker
Should we document this? Should do we try to send some probes down to get any kind of information about this planet that is like gonna be gone now? No. Let's, I don't know, throw a buoy on it and we'll figure it out later. Oh, and I was wondering if it bothered you that like they get to all these places so quickly.
00:28:32
Speaker
it It did and it didn't because they seem to try. That's one of the reasons why the data Klingon scene is actually in there as well, to give some sense of time.
Galaxy's Vastness and Strategic Planet Value
00:28:44
Speaker
But I think the problem is like, it's one of those things where you only think about now, but I guarantee people were not thinking about as much. Fewer people were thinking about it as much then as they would be now. But yeah, this is not an episode you can really, this is not a story you can really tell in an episode. And theoretically, we're really getting to the nitty gritty here. ah But they're not as bad as as Strange New Worlds.
00:29:08
Speaker
The NASBAS streaming worlds, they do they do actually have that line at the end in the captain's log. Yeah, that's sweet. We've been using high warp so much. yeah like they they We're dead in the water, essentially. Yeah. So that stuff I'm OK with. But if you really think about it, that if these were the only life forms in the galaxy at one point, and they seeded their life throughout the galaxy, that in theory, that puzzle is not easily put together by a bunch of alpha quadrant, beta quadrant.
00:29:36
Speaker
aliens, right? Yeah, they're, they would have to explore like Voyager, you have to do the gamma quadrant, and the Delta quadrant have to be like the whole thing. um And i I don't know, it seems like they didn't.
00:29:49
Speaker
want to deal with that because it's just they had they had most of a good idea here um anyway but that's why i mean i kind of i hope i remember to say this at the end to kind of talk about the discoveries twist on the story because that actually is a season mystery because they have to basically explore most of the galaxy to find the clues to get what they're trying to after just to piggyback on the time thing when there's been there's remarks of, oh, we're already late to that summit. Like even if you guys left right then, you'd still be like a week late. Right. You know, and one like Kirk missed something, you know, for a mock time to, you know, make sure Spock doesn't die. But that's like one. They're going in one direction. They're just going from where they are to Vulcan. And then they have to work to this. So it's different. This one they're working all over.
00:30:38
Speaker
I had two worst truck jokes, do you have any more? or actually I actually had three, but I said one of them. The whole like just going rogue is ridiculous. And they tried to emotionally justify it and it doesn't quite work. But ah the Iridians as information traders, this idea that all aliens are represented by one trait, you know, like the Klingons are warriors. The Romulans are schemers. These guys are spider. Cardassians are fascists. And herhiians yeah, Iridians are information traders. Well, like what are humans? The good guys?
00:31:12
Speaker
You know what I mean? like That's got to be what the the writers, when they're thinking about it, like if you were to ask the writers at the time, well, how would the Klingon see us? said Well, the Klingons would probably see us as cowards. The Romulans would probably see us as a threat. ah But I think our thing is like, we're always doing the right thing. Maybe that's what it is. I don't know.
00:31:35
Speaker
And I know it's Star Trek and I know the galaxy is vast, but I'm irked by this idea that there are class M planets with no life and no civilizations. They're just chilling out just like with like water and vegetation. Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:52
Speaker
So injury eight is uninhabited neutral and had no strategic importance whatsoever. The planet was covered by deciduous vegetation until 2369, but possessed no animal life or evidence of past or present civilization. why So why would it possess genetic material that could complete the puzzle? I don't know, plants. Okay. Or like the primordial ooze or whatever.
00:32:18
Speaker
Also a class M planet that's capable of supporting life for Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Vulcans, all the Ferengi, all the species we've seen, Andorians, whatever you wanna say. It would be of no strategic importance. I kind of feel like as big as the galaxy is, it's pretty valuable real estate, a class M planet. Yeah, yes. Again, I need like a explanation of, there's lead in the water.
Character Motivations and Episode Themes
00:32:46
Speaker
but or something. You know what I mean? Yeah, it makes perfect sense to me like this planet once supported. Or stinks. so Just stinks. It literally stinks. It smells too bad. Nobody likes it. All the fruit there tastes horrible. Well, there's there's been other episodes where it's like this one's too close to a star. So like it gets bombarded with radiation. Oh, yeah. Like so it's like, you can only spend that's but like half a year there without needing to leave or something. Something.
00:33:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's not happening here. This one's like, no, there's just a by the way, there's just a plan out there. It's got no life. ah All right. most present why No reason. Yeah. but The story says so most cosplayable character or moment. um ah So I think maybe the Cardassian captain with her stupid braids and her bad lipstick.
00:33:36
Speaker
Yeah, I thought that gold offset was maybe, no, this is not an insult. Like the most obvious choice. That's the one. Yes, for sure. Cause it's rare. We see a Cardassian woman in an episode and all that stuff. Um, it's funny that she's wearing the same gear as the men though. Cause it, did you notice how her arms just kind of hang funny, just looks very uncomfortable the way she's standing.
00:34:00
Speaker
Uh, can I, I have a pitch okay for what would be maybe the more fantastical one. ah Curlin Nescus. And just find a way to like lift your head off and somehow you've got all these other little, you know, nesting dolls inside of you. I mean, it's a more difficult costume, probably.
00:34:22
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sure people have gone as Picard as Galen or Professor Galen. I think Picard's wearing basically what Galen is wearing in that in those episodes in season seven. I don't remember. But yeah, now it's time for the line must be drawn. Yeah, great lines. I have a five four. Okay. I mean, I put in I had a father but he was the father that understood me. Yeah, I had that one.
00:34:47
Speaker
And then when the Cardassian captain says, he's right, as far as we know, it may be a recipe for biscuits. I'm glad you said it because I wasn't sure. but she go Yeah. Because to me, what makes the line is the basically new deck, the Klingon being like, go home and I'll have my mom. Yeah. You want some biscuits, bitch?
00:35:12
Speaker
where's the And then, uh, You are attempting to bribe me from data. No, not at all. And then the last one for me. That's all? If she weren't already dead, I'd kill her. Yeah. Because I was feeling the same way. Y'all like sent everybody on a wild goose chase to find this fucking video message.
00:35:39
Speaker
I, you know, I, I mentioned, I saw that. Help me. Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope type hologram. That is exactly what's going on. It's not even a plea for help. It's just like, uh, yep. Hey, remember us.
Escape Rooms and Star Trek Puzzle Humor
00:35:56
Speaker
I told you I saw that IMAX movie about the the universe and all that. I found an odd bit of comfort in that all of our cells, our matter, just gets recycled over and over again. There's something very comforting about that. So in some sense, these progenitors aren't going anywhere. there They're going to be a part of us. yeah yeah They were a part of us whether they wanted, tried to or not.
00:36:23
Speaker
Um, so the one I actually have five then cause the Picard dad thing, but I also had the new deck line. So now I'll just read my three Picard. I'm not sorry for the path that I chose. By the way, I liked that this episode, unlike season one spends a lot of time making sure it's clear. No, no. Patrick Stewart wants to be doing Star Trek. We want to make it clear. Picard is happy. He's a captain anyway. Uh, but the professor did not choose this gift at random. The many voices inside the one.
00:36:51
Speaker
You see, he knows that the past is a very insistent voice inside me. The skipped is meant to remind me of that. ah Picard is like an unemotional person or he tries to be a very stodgy British guy. But I like when he has his emotional intelligence working and he's able to kind of calmly state what's going on. And he puts it with a nice spin and delivers it in a way that really only Patrick Stewart can.
00:37:14
Speaker
So data, after he gets headbutt and new DAC falls to the ground, data stands up and says, my upper spinal support is a poly alloy alloy designed to withstand extreme stress. My skull is comprised of cordonide and duranium, which is as close as data can say, like I'm strong bitch. Yeah. Try it. Yeah.
00:37:35
Speaker
the progenitor lady and if you can see me and hear me our hope has been fulfilled you are a monument not to our greatness but to our existence that was our wish that you too would know life and to keep alive our memory there is something of eacha of us in each of you and so something of you in each other remember us there's something nice about that i thought everyone just wants to be remembered right i'm gonna leave their mark Would this episode be a fun, hollow novel to play out? Um, I think a little s scavenger hunt can be fun. So sure. I put maybe because the concept, I agree. The concept is a definite. Yeah. If we could do that, but how it played out in this episode, it's kind of a bottle episode. It's a lot of on the ship. You know, it's not, you can imagine a version where it's like, we got to go underground to get this it's like kind of an escape route thing.
00:38:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. It is kind of that. So I guess I wasn't as like into how it played out. But yeah, it'd be fun to do the scavenger hunt. I'm not a fan of escape rooms, by the way. mean indifferent I'm indifferent to them. And now with a perfect I've done one in my life and now that we did it in like a record time, I'm like, I'm good. I don't ever need to do one again.
Cultural References and Sci-Fi Homage
00:38:52
Speaker
So we came very close to solving one, but the problem was it was me and my husband and then like a group of 10 people who all came together who all seem to only have their certain skill sets and none others. But like, what are you talking about skill sets? Like I can only- They were just math people. Okay. And then i i I'm good at like a deductive reasoning. So I actually somehow skipped ahead in the steps.
00:39:23
Speaker
Cause they were like, why did you do this? And I'm like, okay, whatever, I'll do this thing. And then like the, you know, they have like a little host in there. And the guy was like, oh, uh, you weren't supposed to do that until they were finished with this. I'm like, well, fuck it. I'm done. Like, what do you want me to do? We were like 30 seconds from escaping. Also I was, I had not been to one. This was many years ago. I was under the impression. It was like find a key or something and then like, or pick a lock or whatever.
00:39:50
Speaker
Like I thought it was like actually breaking and entering kind of skills, which I do have. And i so I was disappointed. It was like math puzzles. Why would oh I see? Because there was there was locks and you had to find keys. Yeah. But the keys, you can only find the keys by solving some stupid algebra problem instead of like picking the lock or whatever. Well, here's why, Kristen, because they have to reuse the broom. So.
00:40:14
Speaker
deb I know, but I don't know. I didn't know what I was expecting. It was some crummy building downtown LA. It was a gift. So it was a gift certificate to go.
00:40:27
Speaker
anyway I mean, you know what? the hall You know what would be I've wanted to do like a rage room before. Not anymore, but I did. What is that? i Oh, a rage room is where you literally just pay money to go in and you take a bat and you can just break it. But it's so wasteful. Also, and it's just I was also thinking like that would be a great thing to do on the holiday where it's a computer. I'm very angry with yeah ah very angry. Yes.
00:40:54
Speaker
um All right. The Anton Kridian Award for Best Performance.
00:41:00
Speaker
um Can I give it to Patrick Stewart or should we spread it around? I was going to give it to Norman Lloyd as Professor Galen. and i had Okay, reason and that's fine. Because he was crying.
00:41:14
Speaker
I like the way, again, Jonathan Frakes- Look, none of them can cry on the screen. Jonathan Frakes is a great director. I really liked the way that he had the argument between the two of them play out. The dialogue was written that they would be standing and talking and yelling at each other, and then he would storm out. But instead, Frakes tweaked it just enough so that Norman Lloyd is walking out as he delivers his final line. Like he's already out the door and he says goodbye. Yeah. You know, it's just like in the way that they play against each other. I don't know. I don't know. He had the professorial vibe going. And like you said, is he from the British Museum?
00:41:52
Speaker
yeah I was definitely giving that. I feel like Picard and Patrick Stewart was saddled with some weird, ah if not techno babble, then exposition in this episode that it just didn't quite feel right some some of the time. I don't know. I wasn't vibing as much. I thought Norman Lloyd, just as a guest spot, was like, all right, that's good. Plus, yeah, we could always give it to Patrick Stewart if we wanted. But like what was Patrick Stewart's blessing in the episode? I guess the first scene where he's in the observation lounge.
00:42:22
Speaker
where he's literally like, oh my god! yeah
00:42:29
Speaker
ah The Shatner, then. Is there any question? It's Nudak, John Cottner. No, it's absolutely him. With a bullet. It's got to be him. And you know what, though? Not for lack of trying on the parts of some of the other people. I know. My my thought on Golisette was that she was going for it. but Especially when she's a first on screen.
00:42:53
Speaker
Yes. ah Like when they when they hailed them. But like those are really difficult because they don't they don't have like anyone to actually act against. So they're just like, yes, really hamming it up. And so I sometimes forgive that. But.
00:43:07
Speaker
I mean, this the standoff at the end, it's just everybody's eating the fucking scenery. I know. he Yeah, so he went for it the most. He kind of felt like a c ah a person cosplaying as a Klingon that you'd encounter at a convention or something. That's how boisterous and like almost cartoonish he is. My husband was like, oh, is this a backdoor pilot for the Klingon guy?
00:43:34
Speaker
No, they didn't do that back then, but. Yeah, he'd play a Klingon again in Deep Space Nine. He played as Zindi in Enterprise, and then he was in two interactive video games. Star Trek Klingon, where he played the Klingon, believe it or not.
'The Chase' Impact on Star Trek Lore
00:43:48
Speaker
And then he played a human in the Star Trek Borg game. So congrats, John. Good for him. Junior. Yeah. ah Shoot to thrill. Most exciting image or sequence?
00:43:59
Speaker
Uh, I don't know. I honestly, I just, i've done playing I'm going to give it to the non battle space battle. Where the enterprise is in the cell is getting hit yeah because it looks kind of cool. Yeah. Even though I think the Kardashian phasers look really like little, little peace streams. They don't really look all that threatening but yeahassian ship fires phasers. I still like that the ship was listing and the cell kind of flickers. And so I don't know.
00:44:29
Speaker
Oh, and when, uh, what's his face? Nudak is it? He yells at his crew like, you're supposed to be for prepared. Yep. What part of this will you teach at Starfleet Academy? Um, it's totally fine to take whatever archaeological artifacts that you want. Those don't need to be tagged catalog. Just keep them in your own quarters. It's fine.
00:44:59
Speaker
I went with the reveal that we're all connected, that all that the protein sequences that all lines up and there isn't. Although I don't know if they're actually teaching a Starfleet Starfleet like on first year. Oh, by the way, there's no God. It was just these weird aliens that seeded every planet with different DNA. Just FYI, I think you got to get through like a couple of years before they for that one I am. for you For they're like, guess what? I hope you're not religious.
00:45:36
Speaker
That's great. Guess what? I have good news or bad news depending on how on your worldview. yeah Could this episode have been hornier and would that have made it better? I don't i don't want to see you any horniness in this one.
00:45:55
Speaker
I think it could have been, and it would have made it better. I think there was, any time Picard and Crusher have those breakfast scenes together, there's a possibility of some sexual tension. And I think if you're getting into this- You think she should pull the Grace Kelly trick? Of course, that's what I'm saying. Jean-Luc, do you mind getting some more orange juice? And then he comes back and she's just naked. She's like, I spilled. 100% success rate for Grace Kelly, so.
00:46:27
Speaker
My point is that if we're talking about, pick if Picard's dealing with, because I really actually believe it's not so much about his guilt. ah We're going to talk about that in a second. But like, if there is this idea of like, no, no, I actually really am happy in the life that I have. Crusher represents that aspect of it more. And so the fact that they're both working together, you could have almost made this Picard Crusher two hander in a way.
00:46:51
Speaker
I don't know if it needed to go in that direction. I'm just saying, could have been hornier. I don't know. There's been times in other episodes where she's been throwing some heat his direction, and he's kind of like brushed it aside. And I wonder if they had tried that trick here, if it might have registered a little bit different. So and that and so we disagree, and that's fine. ah So Trek, Merry, or Kill? The chase. I want to give it a trek.
00:47:17
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to give it a trek as well. ah Over the years, it's waned. like It's kind of closer to a soft trek for me. But yeah, it's pretty solid. It has some good Star Trek ideas in there, some good scenes in there, some ah pretty hu pretty extreme on the performance scale, we're saying, right? You got some good good performances. You got a couple of that ones that are like, what's going on here? um But then, of course, breaks directing really, really makes it all hold together.
00:47:46
Speaker
um I wanted to talk a little bit about how this connects with Discovery. It obviously is the seed for Discovery's fifth season. Kristen, I know you haven't seen Discovery's fifth season. I have not. You will not be joining me on that journey as we grade that. I'm going to be joined by Cherise, the sci-fi savage. She's been a guest on the show previously when when ah when I did the episode on a drone from Star Trek Voyager. ah So we're going to go through that fifth season. So the setup is that Starfleet, after this,
00:48:16
Speaker
episode, basically, after Picard reports back, and they're like, what ah wait, what about the Uridian ship that you blew up? And he's like, never mind that. I found it sacred to the universe, i obviously. And by the way, that wasn't our fault. Yeah, that's right. What's in Professor Galen's shuttle? Pay no attention to that. No, he didn't steal anything. Anyway, Starfleet assigned some people to go look for where of these aliens might have come from.
00:48:43
Speaker
OK, and when they they find where they're from, they find somehow find evidence or find the actual technology that allowed them to seed life. Now, in the episode, they say seed life, but in Discovery, it's like it seems like it's a machine and you pull a lever and life comes out of it.
00:49:04
Speaker
So that's one twist. okay That's one change because seeding life on planets and like oceans and that shit makes sense. But they're kind of actually saying is like planets that had no life, they gave life to thanks to this technology. So that's different. And then what's what the seasons about is basically when they when the scientists discover this device, they also saw its potential destructive capability.
00:49:33
Speaker
and they broke it apart into different pieces instead of destroy it.
Wrap-Up and Future Podcast Topics
00:49:37
Speaker
and And basically have left a trail for people to find to then unite the pieces to rebuild the machine. And I don't know if that steps on the message of this episode so much as it ignores it because now this episode was pretty straightforward. Like we're gone and this message is all that exists to tell you that you are us that survived. like We survived through you evolving and being alive. And we hope you guys are all best friends. that's like It's kind of a fucked up though because like people died. Just did you get that message? Yeah. um So none of that gets dealt with. No.
00:50:24
Speaker
But looking forward to going through the season, we've only done the the first episode, the first two episodes of Discovery. So now we're going to finish one whole season here in the next 10 weeks. We'll be interrupting it a couple of times. Kristen, you'll be coming in because there's some other episodes of Star Trek that Discovery's fifth season will use as inspiration. And you and I will talk about those before I jump back into Discovery. so Everyone has that to look forward to. Also, we'll be having our Star Trek Discovery Complete Series giveaway in that run of episodes and more will follow, more details will follow about how you might be able to receive as a giveaway the complete Star Trek Discovery. As a gift. As a gift for listening to the show. All right. and When you come back, Kristen, it will actually not be for an inspirational episode, so I'm not
00:51:19
Speaker
I'm not tricking anybody. I'm just misreading my own rundown here. When Kristen returns in a few weeks, it will be because it's spooky season and I like us doing Halloween episodes. I desperately want to do one and we're going to do the alien abduction episode from the next generation schisms, which ah which will be fun. I think i think i I hate Halloween now. I think I'm officially because of okay season no ah Spooky season, it's too much. Well, how about this? A creepy episode of Star Trek. Okay.
00:51:59
Speaker
I mean, you're not recording it next to Halloween. So I think you're no i'm recording it next week. Right. Yes. When when Brian is making it seem like i I'm getting like a three week break or something. That is not the case. I will be back next week to record. I don't I don't have any say when we air these. They just come out when they do.
00:52:18
Speaker
You could have, say, if you just, you know, I could have said yeah allegedly. I didn't know that, Brian. I thought that was you had like a vision or something. I do have. a I have a ah vision which you can question and and tweak. And okay it's I just figured. So you think it's better just to do all the discovery stuff and get it out of the way.
00:52:38
Speaker
kind of because it's a season arc. And god so it seems a little strange to break it up. And you don't want to subject me to having to watch Discovery. A hundred percent. I see. Got it. Thank you, Brian. I appreciate that.
00:52:54
Speaker
Uh, consideration. I looked at the last two seasons and I said, this is generally the number of episodes I have you for. And so knowing how many episodes I plan to do for the season out of that number of what I have you for, which ones would I most want you to do if I could, you know, I have to choose. And that was my thinking behind that. I think it's important to to discovery because there are a lot of discovery fans out there and.
00:53:22
Speaker
I'm not one of them. ever seen Well, you've never seen the show. We watched the first two episodes for this show, did we not? That's right. Or was that our test episode? No, we know we did that. I was just like, you know what? i'd rather you like Enterprise is a show neither of us like, but we've kind of watched more Enterprise and I kind of want to hear your feedback of the end of Enterprise than I would end of Discovery. Yeah. so yeah Have me jump into season five of a serialized Star Trek show probably wouldn't go too well. Yeah, it doesn't feel like because I'm not watching those other episodes to get at the speed. I'm sorry. We don't know that. Also, just in terms of like, I think discovery style is is not one for me. And i't I'm not sure you might like it more than I do. But I also think like,
00:54:15
Speaker
I think Charisse will offer a great perspective because she's a lot more open not-minded about this stuff than I am. so and i think I hope Michael Burnham is a better captain in Discovery than she was on Celebrity Family Feud the other night.
00:54:32
Speaker
Star Trek was the ah very cast of various Star Treks. just got demolished by, of all people, the fishing boat captains from Deadlays Catch, who literally live on a fucking boat. Well, and they're they're supposed to live on a starship. No, in real life, though, I mean. Oh, in real life. Yeah, these guys like live half the year on a boat with like no contact with other people.
00:55:04
Speaker
Like they don't want they have no TV to watch or anything. They don't know. Like, how are you going to know any pop culture references or anything? And they know more about land livers than the actual land livers, because Family Feud is based on survey responses. Yes. Getting a lot of. Yeah. you'a Getting stopped on the open waters to answer Family Feud survey questions. No, you're not. We're watching Family Feud. We're watching. Like knowing out what like what what the format of the show is.
00:55:32
Speaker
Check us out on social media at Trek Mary K Pod on the web at trekmarikillpod.com for all of our standings. And so until next week, TMK out. More spooky season. Bye.