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PIC: "Maps and Legends" & "The End is the Beginning" (s1e2-3)
106 Plays7 days ago
PADDING THE RUNTIME. It's been five years since the premiere of Star Trek: Picard and the first season was a bumpy ride for all involved. Patrick Stewart trying to capture Jean-Luc Picard at a different point in his life. A host of executives, producers, and writers being largely unfamiliar with the character or episodic TV; and a first-time showrunner trying to figure out how to pace out an incomplete story. Bryan & Kristen revisit this experiment in brand extension to see how well it's held up.
The grades begin at (20:55).
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Trek, Merry, Kill' and Initial Discussion
00:00:00
Speaker
This week on Trek, Merry, Kill. Mars, Romulans, Hugh. Engage.
00:00:08
Speaker
A woman came to me for help. I believe her sister is in serious danger. I have to go. But you can't do it alone. You need help. You need protection.
00:00:20
Speaker
You need a crew. Agnes Jurati. You're just going to let Agnes here hitch a ride on your top secret mission? Engage.
00:00:30
Speaker
We face a powerful enemy. There are lies upon lies. You're in trouble. I'm in over my head. Sounds like you need a new plan.
00:00:45
Speaker
I have a mission. Which means there's not a hell of a chance for somebody to stop me.
00:00:55
Speaker
They warned me you were speech maker. Oh, really?
Picard's New Mission and Team Building
00:01:07
Speaker
I need your help. I need a ship and pilot. I have to save her. I'm sure she has no idea what she truly is. I have a pilot for you. Where are we going, Admiral? Rafi says you have no idea. I'm working on it.
00:01:22
Speaker
I tried to belong here. I know you. You always had one eye on the stars. Time to go.
00:01:39
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Kristen. Welcome to Check, Marry, Kill, a Star Trek podcast that's willing to go down another rabbit hole with Jean-Luc Picard for well, reasons that are unclear to me at this point.
00:01:56
Speaker
I mean, you're the one who picks a schedule. i sure did. your head's Acting like this was some government mandate, like Texas. Well, we're kicking off this month, Star Trek Picard Season 1. It's the five-year anniversary of Picard's premiere as a show. um We're going to finish off the first season because we did Season 3 already, and we killed all Season 2, as everyone should know by now.
00:02:24
Speaker
But we did ah the first episode of Picard Remembrance. It was one of our first Checkmary kills.
Production Challenges and Story Development of Picard Season 1
00:02:30
Speaker
We had Hector Navarro from the YouTube channel Heroes Reforged to talk about it.
00:02:34
Speaker
um You know, Trek Picard Season 2, a fraught production. We talked about that many times. Had two different showrunners, and the season was split, and there was COVID. It was a mess, even though of it was so low budget. They were like, um let's just have Los Angeles plays itself. and Yeah.
00:02:52
Speaker
Yeah. and So we're to go back, though. We're going to see if kind of that fraught production, because season one was also a fraught production, even though it had like the California tax breaks and, you know, all stuff the stuff, the development history, the production history.
00:03:07
Speaker
There was a lot going on. We're going to see if that actually affected it in the way that it did season two. Kristen, are you ready for this journey? Yeah, it turns out. and I did not realize this until...
00:03:21
Speaker
I want to say 75% away through the first episode or the second episode of this season that I had already watched these two episodes. Ah. Back when we were first starting the podcast. So, but it was like in a I'm just going to let them play because it's next on the queue thing.
00:03:41
Speaker
Sure. Yep. But I was like, this is familiar. Yeah. It was good that for me that this is the first time I went back and rewatched any of these, to be perfectly honest. But I was surprised by how much of them were stuck in my mind anyway, for reasons I will explain later.
00:03:57
Speaker
but So we're going to do two episodes per week for the season. That's why March, we're going to finish it off. ah So episodes two and three of season one, Maps and Legends, ah premiered on Paramount Plus in the U.S. on January 30th, 2020.
00:04:12
Speaker
Gosh, we're we're also going to talk about pre-COVID. Just our memories, would imagine. The first of these two episodes written together by Michael Chabon and Akiva Goldsman, directed by Anneli Culpepper, who had done Remembrance the Pilot.
00:04:25
Speaker
And then the third episode is The End is the Beginning. it premiered on P-Plus a week later, February 6th, 2020, written by showrunner Michael Chabon. And Picard's original showrunner, James Duff, which I will discuss later, ah directed by Annalise Culpepper as well.
00:04:43
Speaker
They did the season in blocks. And so she was direct supposed to direct the first two blocks. But we will discuss for reasons why two became three. So what happens in these two episodes?
00:04:54
Speaker
going to try to summarize as quickly as I can. ah We found out at the end of the last episode that Data's daughter, Dahj, who exploded after an attack by Romulan Special Forces, has a twin sister.
00:05:05
Speaker
The twin sister's name is Soji, who is a scientist that's doing work on a Borg cube that was disconnected from the collective. And the Romulans are allowing other species to come in, do research.
Key Characters and Mythical Elements in Picard
00:05:16
Speaker
They're also like helping the the drones become de-assimilated.
00:05:20
Speaker
And they're called XBs. Soji's supervisor on this board cube is Mr. Third of Five himself, Q from TNG's iBorg. Also dissent Descent Part 2, which we don't need to talk about.
00:05:35
Speaker
And ah still played by Jonathan Del Arco, who has aged remarkably well. Good job. Yeah, he has. Q agrees to allow Soji to interview an XP she's been drawn to for reasons she doesn't know, this Romulan named Ramda.
00:05:50
Speaker
who is like a Vulcan or sorry, knows about like Romulan mysticism, ah but has sort of lost her mind since being, since being disconnected from the board cube, you know, assimilation is not like, not everyone just disconnects and they're like, Oh, time to go back on with my life.
00:06:06
Speaker
Sometimes it really messes with your brain. And it seems like that's the case with Ramda. Although we, if you've already seen the season, then you know, that's not entirely the case. Anyway, Ramda immediately recognizes Soji as this Romulan mythical figure, even though she hates the term myth.
00:06:20
Speaker
of the destroyer and so that's why the romulans are after these twin androids since is because romulans hate synthetic life artificial intelligence and it has something to do with this destroyer entity they sent us like ah an attack team it's almost like a bit of like a terminator situation yes you say okay yeah just um Just to give an analogy for anyone who doesn't know what the hell we're talking about because it sounds convoluted. It is.
00:06:47
Speaker
It is. And they're they're constantly trying to be like, well, that didn't land. Except no time travel in this one. Yes. So Dodge was ah killed by an attack team. And then their plan, the Romulans' plan for getting close to the other twin is basically getting hunky British guy who vaguely looks like Theon Greyjoy.
00:07:06
Speaker
So basically, where I wouldn't call him honky, and maybe for British guy. I think the intention was, let's put ah on that was the intention. Your feelings on Harry Treadway are your own.
00:07:17
Speaker
I'm not going to judge you one way the other or push you one way the other. I just think that's the intention there. But see on Greyjoy, let's be honest, not supposed to be. a alluring character.
00:07:30
Speaker
Correct. But I think they're going for that kind of vaguely dirtbag-ish British guy. British guy. Exactly. We used to call it Euro trash, Brian. I don't know what happened to that, but that's what you call it How many Euros do we get these days?
00:07:43
Speaker
I mean, like they're just plainly British presenting. Euro has like a little, you know, give me some weird, what are you? i mean, despite what they believe, the United Kingdom is in Europe. Right.
00:07:58
Speaker
let's You know, try as they might, they they still are there. Yeah. Geographically. So this guy, Narek, this Romulan, the British Romulan, is trying to use sex craft to worm his way into Soji's life. Y'all, can I fuck my way out of this one?
00:08:15
Speaker
He's honeydicking her, to yeah borrow from the interview. He's trying to find out some secret information, and the Romulans believe that she knows where the location of... I don't actually remember now if this is in the episode, but I know what it's about.
00:08:28
Speaker
Does she know where the location of the synth home world is? No, yeah. Yeah, that's in the... it's I didn't see it at least one of the episodes. Yes. Because I would not know that otherwise because I've not seen... Yeah.
00:08:39
Speaker
I think I saw one other episode, but that was it. So i I'm front-loading all the lore stuff, that and I'm talking about is like the Romulan, Borg, overarching story going on.
Picard's Past and Present Missions
00:08:52
Speaker
And then what's really on the main line of what's Picard up to for two episodes, it's like, well, I need to go find Bruce Maddox who might know where I can find this twin.
00:09:04
Speaker
And I need to get a ship, but I need to find someone who can help me to find a ship. And so he goes to after the Enterprise days, I guess Raffi Mussaker became like his right hand man, his lieutenant, which I think is cool. I think that's a great idea.
00:09:21
Speaker
But she's like a broken person because somehow when he resigned from Starfleet, she got fired as well, which is stupid. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. That's like an employer you know called the EEOC. c Yeah, exactly. And this is ah supposed to be like a quasi military service.
00:09:37
Speaker
It's dumb. But Picard did use, ah and he issued an ultimatum to Starfleet, we find out in two flashbacks in both episodes. Episode two opens up with like, here's what happened on Mars, why people hate the synth so much.
00:09:50
Speaker
Oh, they rebelled and killed everybody and set Mars on fire. Bad. Then episode three opens with Picard being like, listen, because of what Mars burning, Starfleet suddenly like got in cold feet about, you know, rescuing the Romulans from the supernova.
00:10:04
Speaker
And so I basically issued an ultimate made of my commission or we continue with the mission. And they're like, thank you. Nice. Thanks for your service. Smell you later. And um and somehow that sent Rafi on this.
00:10:17
Speaker
uh terrible path that she's on in her life but somehow picard's able to like browbeat her into going and helping him and so because yes well also he first goes to starfleet to ask for a ship thinking no bridges have been burned there yeah it does not it goes about as poorly as anyone can imagine It sure does. And we're definitely to talk about that scene very soon. Yeah, we're getting to it.
00:10:43
Speaker
But basically, she facilitates an introduction with a, I was going to say disgrace, but it's more like a disillusioned Starfleet officer who is now like basically trying, they're trying to shoehorn and him as Han Solo. But for some reason, he has a bunch of EMHs on his ship, emergency holograms that do different functions.
00:11:02
Speaker
And they all look like him, but he's doing different voices. it doesn't I don't know what idea there. I'm going to get to the voices. All right. So that's all that's going on there. We've got this whole convoluted Romulan Borg plot going on that's tied into the to Data's daughters, one of whom is dead.
00:11:18
Speaker
And meanwhile, in these two episodes, Picard is trying to like mend fences that he's knocked down or relationships he's ruined over the years to try to get a ship to get off the planet to go find Soji. So that's it.
00:11:33
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah. ah So unlike Discovery strange or Stranger Worlds, where there's been a like a paucity behind-the-scenes news on the scale of what we got last century with all these books and stuff, actually know like quite a lot about Picard because...
00:11:47
Speaker
Everyone involved has been very open. i mean, that's what happens when you've got Sir Patrick Stewart in the lead. they're They're just very open because they're it's all about like trying to get Emmy nominations and and mainstream press and all that stuff. That was the that was the reason for doing this. was like, can we do an
Picard as a Prestige Drama and Episode Restructuring
00:12:02
Speaker
adult drama? This is Paramount Plus' is prestige play using the Star Trek brand.
00:12:07
Speaker
Some people might find that silly, and I might agree with you, but they really thought like they had like a Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, something like that on their list, which is nuts. But That was the so that was a lot more stupid, but okay.
00:12:19
Speaker
So I have a big umbrella note that applies to both of these episodes. ah For the first season, Dominic Patton of Deadline Hollywood did a post-show podcast ah for every episode and got the creators um the ah from the show on the record to know deliver comments and thoughts. And I think Patrick Stewart was even on them.
00:12:35
Speaker
So i'm copying and pasting from Wikipedia here, but that's what it's sourcing from. So they edited the first two episodes and the writers came to feel that there was too much exposition required during later episodes that would be better served earlier in the season.
00:12:49
Speaker
So after watching an almost completed version of Culpeper's episodes, the writers decided there were natural breaks where the two episodes could be split into three, which would allow new scenes to be added that could improve the overall storytelling.
00:13:02
Speaker
um So they didn't know that they should have shown the the synth attack on Mars. So they to kind of like go back and reshoot that and recreate that. Culpepper said that the new scenes that they went back and reshot made up most of the second episode and some of the first, with the completed third episode being predominantly footage from the original second episode.
00:13:22
Speaker
they basically like went in and like, up we need to like backfill and space it out a little bit. um And let's see. So like the flashback where Picard resigns or tells Rafi he resigned actually started the second episode.
00:13:37
Speaker
um And was it, but then it was also filmed after the episodes were split. So like they cut the scene from the original filming and they're like, Oh, we should actually go shoot that scene. Yeah. Footage. So they went back in. So Akiva Goldsman described the first three episodes as the season's first act, comparing them to the pilot episode of a traditional television series since they all introduced the main cast, which just goes to show that the show did not have a lot of people familiar with making television. If it takes you three episodes to do one pilot, plus he complained later that there was ten for an arbitrary reason. They really only had enough story for nine episodes.
00:14:14
Speaker
So. Okay. Yeah. ah do you So you remember the first time you saw this? It was when we did it for Remembrance. Yeah. what is Okay. Wouldn't it be weird to live and sleep on a Borg cube as Soji does?
00:14:28
Speaker
Yes. Of course.
Exploring the Borg Cube and Character Dynamics
00:14:30
Speaker
I think it's very strange that I understand we're going to no, it's not a cube. It's the artifact. Thank you. Just so you're aware. Yeah.
00:14:41
Speaker
Everybody. But the point is, is that they, so people who go and sign up for this reclamation project with the Romulan free government, uh, free people or whatever, they live and, and work, do the research on the actual artifact, which I think is insane because you've got a sign that says we haven't had any assimilations in a long time on this thing.
00:15:04
Speaker
Yeah. It's been X amount of days without any assimilations. And, but they're like, this shit's very dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, okay so that's weird. yeah and but it's like people died there or assimilated.
00:15:20
Speaker
It's like those creepers always go to like Auschwitz and take selfies. Or if you were researching Auschwitz, they like stay in the yeah buildings. And have sex with your paramour. Yeah.
00:15:36
Speaker
It's very strange. And the idea like, well, for budget reasons, I'm like, that was still a choice. They could have been like, we're at a little space station just off screen. Exactly. it doesn't yeah It's very stupid. A ship that's like docked there. Yeah. that Even that would have been just fine. like Totally. But like, we're going to live here. it's yeah outrageous um and and there's borg there they're dangerous yes which they don't when they're doing the bits where they're like deconstructing them and removing all the technology which is
00:16:13
Speaker
huh Kind of insane because all that technology is created by the magical board nanoprobes that seven of nine and the doctor used like fucking Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippen and on the Voyager days to do everything. Just heart, just like their stem cells, just harvest a bunch of those.
00:16:33
Speaker
You don't need to like, make it all like oh we're we're we're scavenging from these bored corpses or whatever and we're selling the technology we're using it to build fleets or whatever they're doing it's like it's very so it's very 21st century yeah it obviously it's not like altruistic intentions because it's the fucking romulan romulans like yeah ah The opening flashback of Maps and Legends, along with the Romulan supernova portrayed in J.J. Abrams' 2009 Star Trek movie, that's how they link up, confirms that season one of Picard is set in the year 2399. right on the edge of the beginning of the 25th century.
00:17:13
Speaker
um this These are memory alpha notes now. I remember when Maps and Legends came out that there was an outcry over Laris' line about how Romulan society banned artificial intelligence. like She's like, I noticed how there's no AI in Romulan society.
00:17:26
Speaker
Because in the episode The Defector, which is, I think, season three of TNG, g there's a line from the defecting Romulan Jeroch specifically mentions how interested Romulan cyberneticists would be to get a close-up look at data.
00:17:40
Speaker
And then i Memory Alpha jogged my memory. like Michael Chabon was... answering and angry nerds on Instagram their questions. And he conformed the two statements saying like, well, being a Romulan cyberneticist is kind of like being a Nazi doctor.
00:17:56
Speaker
And Data's response is, I do not find that concept of being examined by Romulan cyberneticists to be particularly appealing. And Michael Chabon's comment is data sagely says the sagely and and nor should you as the telling reply.
00:18:12
Speaker
So Michael Chabon is simply adding like, yeah, there are Romulan cyberneticists and they're not good people. like They're not like trying to build good cyber cybernetic technology. So.
00:18:23
Speaker
ah Memory Alpha put that in there and I just thought, yes, I remember that minor controversy at the time in this rant. Now five years ago. um This episode features the second and third time we hear fuck in Star Trek.
00:18:36
Speaker
Yeah. That's weird. The first was in the Discovery episode Choose Your Pain from season one. believe it's Tilly who utters that. um Which got an admonishment from Brandon Braga at the time. He's like, it's supposed to be a family show! Mm-hmm.
00:18:50
Speaker
Which I think at the time, everyone still thought Discovery was like in that vein, so that made sense. And this is supposed to be like the most adult Star Trek. Yeah, but it seems out of place in these two episodes. When they do it later in this in the series, it's fine.
00:19:06
Speaker
But this one, I don't... This one was kind of like a... like It was like they were just doing it because they could. know what i mean? Exactly. ah The replicator used in the workroom at Utopia Planitia in the flashback is a modified and de-branded FlashForge Dreamer 3D printer.
00:19:24
Speaker
The nozzle and heater block are visible with the bed replaced. This would be a fully... The nozzle and heater block are visible. That's how... Nerds spotted that. And with the bed replaced, this would be a fully functional replicator of, you know, plastic.
00:19:38
Speaker
And excuse me, I think that's a 3D printer see right there. I mean, it really is. if you know what a 3D printer looks like, it's just staring you out of the face. They didn't do any mods to it. Like, they didn't Michael Okuda that shit up.
00:19:52
Speaker
Like, it just is sitting there. so i i have to give myself the business too, because like, there's a lot of times I'll be, um, watching TV or a movie and I'll be like, I know exactly where you can get those glasses or that flatware.
00:20:08
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So it's the same concept. I know, I know exactly. Then the last two notes. This one comes from the end is the beginning. Laris calls one of the Romulan attackers a stubborn northerner, comparing him to Zabon.
00:20:23
Speaker
It is implied that the clear distinction is possible due to their ridged foreheads, offering an explanation for the different looking Romulans seen throughout various Star Trek productions. Good job, Memory Alpha. I like when they try to do the work of conforming canon because that makes some sense. So I like that.
00:20:39
Speaker
And then the other note also from the end of is the beginning. Agnes Jurati listens to Kassilian opera music also enjoyed by Hugh Colbert and Paul Stamets in the 23rd century. So it connects to Star Trek Discovery in some way. And I thought and I appreciated that.
00:20:54
Speaker
So all right, let's get into the grades. Okay. We're moments. We're doing a slightly modified format. yeah We're doing a serialized season that, you know, it's so a little difference, like our modified Lower Decks formula here.
00:21:08
Speaker
In the beginning of episode two, Maps and Legends, I was just wondering, you know, are the synths going to kill everyone because they make bad jokes?
00:21:20
Speaker
The people are making bad jokes to them? And then they did. And I was like, ah knew it. And then the synth kills himself rather than have to live with knowing that joke and any further.
00:21:35
Speaker
it was like a very stupid dad joke. Like, what's sticky and something? Like, what's... red and black and white all over whatever so you appreciated that we get this horrifying glimpse of the future picard was trying to prevent and measure of a man has become reality and then human beings in the 24th century are not like the gene run by humans uh that were hoped for they're just normal assholes like they are today yeah they're making fun of delivery robots or not delivery robots
00:22:11
Speaker
They're like, can, yeah. They're stronger and faster than you. And they're, they just exist. They're like little puppies. They're all a bunch of Dr. Pulaski's, you know? Yeah. But Dr. Pulaski could do heart surgery.
00:22:25
Speaker
These are- Yeah, that's true. I mean, presumably. yeah We don't know. Have we seen it on, did we actually see it on screen? not. you're saying it's a great moment to see these assholes get their comeuppance.
00:22:35
Speaker
No, it's just like- it Well, yeah, it's a great moment in the in the sense of you got to see what the drudgery was of working with synths. And then, like, it's just the same you would do today.
00:22:51
Speaker
Like, oh, my my robot my robot vacuum can do XYZ and stuff like that. And my self-driving car killed somebody. but It's just, you know, like, we're just using them to do work and then they turn on us.
00:23:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:09
Speaker
Much like the Cybertrucks all over. I guess i I can't believe I'm saying this as a great moment, which I'm actually putting as a great scene. And I kind of stick to my stomach about it because I absolutely fucking hate it to this day.
00:23:22
Speaker
ah despise every part of it. It broke my heart at the time. It's painful to watch now, but we have to declare Picard's meeting with Admiral Kirsten Clancy, henceforth known as Admiral Fuck, as a great scene or at least a great moment.
00:23:38
Speaker
Oh, yeah. To me, it's just it's exactly what she said. It is ah the meeting goes about as badly as you could imagine. Yeah. and And it's all born of a very logical reason. She's like, you just went on TV across the galaxy and embarrassed yourself.
00:24:03
Speaker
And now you're coming here to us. Yeah. Now you're coming here to like a couple days later. Talking like the ambling, angry, confused old man that you look like on on the hollow to me.
00:24:20
Speaker
So what the fuck? It's like ridiculous. And Picard's even like, I will even accept it a demotion to Captain if that will make it easier for people yeah to participate in this mission. You're lucky we didn't let you in the building.
00:24:35
Speaker
But the reason the reason why it was like a shotgun blast to my heart and like it killed me while i was watching this on my couch at midnight when it first dropped was just Picard saying like we don't get to decide. The Federation does not get to decide if a species lives or dies because Clancy is Admiral Clancy is trying to like explain like why the Federation opted not to help the Romulans. And that's because a bunch of Federation members are going to pull out.
00:25:00
Speaker
And so they were like, well, do we risk the Federation imploding or do we help our enemies? And we decided we're not going to help our enemies. And ah and she says, yes, we do.
00:25:11
Speaker
We absolutely do get to decide who lives and who dies. And just the whole exchange, the whole uglines of it, the the whole point that Michael Chabon everyone was trying to get is like well you've been watching like your vision of Star Trek is like kindergarten and we're trying to show you the reality of what it is and my point is like that's the the reason why it's like almost a religion is because Picard is actually right like yeah and so that's why it was such a hard scene but at the same time if this is what the show's about it's like because it's so shocking I think because
00:25:47
Speaker
The performances are so solid. It works. It's terrible. I hate it. i think it's awful. It's a it's just nasty. But yeah I think it's a good moment. um And I also have before that, when Picard shows up to Starfleet HQ, the receptionist doesn't know who the fuck he is, and he has to spell his name to get his little name tag and stuff.
00:26:10
Speaker
Ridiculous. Isn't ridiculous? I thought it was cute because... Guys, that is me at work. um I don't care how famous a person is. i most likely do not recognize them.
00:26:25
Speaker
I'll tell you off air a couple of instances. I
00:26:31
Speaker
um i still think with that scene, it's like... Anyway, but should I even mention it? Who cares? Anyway, we'll skip past it. I then have Rafi telling...
00:26:44
Speaker
Jean-Luc Picard, hey, maybe you shouldn't have told that Admiral your whole fucking plan before you came here. And then do your plan.
00:26:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. You've tipped her off like... some ah you Maybe you could have done some backdoor chant like, hey, get the temperature over at Starfleet before you waltzed up in there then relayed your whole plan. Because then...
00:27:12
Speaker
ah The evil Admiral then goes and tells, you know. Commodore O. The bad. engine yes The bad Vulcan. The clearly evil.
00:27:23
Speaker
kind Like, or you might as well have been in shadows with like a cat in her lap. right It is interesting to note, though, that Admiral Clancy does not reveal everything um that Picard said to her in the meeting to Commodore O. Commodore O just knows this later on, reveals that she just knows this.
00:27:44
Speaker
um that with The stuff that was not said. He came in bobbling about such and such. Now, obviously, he's full of crap. Or is he? she's like, oh, no, yeah, he's full of crap. And then that's when we learn that, no, he is not full of crap. There are clandestine Romulans.
00:28:00
Speaker
operating on earth who may or may not have had something to do with the synth attack on Mars 14 years earlier. Raffi had a tingling about from the very beginning.
00:28:11
Speaker
And in a moment that didn't make any sense because Picard asks, like, why would they sabotage their own rescue? And she goes, of course, exactly. Why would they sabotage their own?
00:28:23
Speaker
you It all makes sense. If you think about it and then they just move on. Yeah. And then I did like Picard on the new ship, even though it's not a starship, but he likes being on the ship. He likes being on a ship.
00:28:36
Speaker
He does like being on a ship. We're talking about the La Serena. This is the third episode. Yeah. Sorry. I'm just skipping around. It's fine to skip around. ah I, yes, i'd like that moment too, where he's kind of, you could feel the wistfulness Patrick Stewart's playing that performance.
00:28:52
Speaker
What do you think about the La Serena itself? The design interior exterior exterior. I don't, have I'm indifferent. I don't know what the the the design logic behind that whole is. mean, it's no Enterprise. so It's not even the Millennium Falcon. No, no, no. No, at least the Millennium Falcon at least had some kind of like rustic charm. Some, you know, like, oh, some pirates hang out here. There's a little three d chess game.
00:29:20
Speaker
There's a lot of storage compartments. Yeah. You know. Have you been, ah you probably haven't been to Disneyland recently, but have you, if you do get a chance, ah we went on the Millennium Falcon ride.
00:29:34
Speaker
Yeah. And it's very cool inside because in the once they take you to queue up for your turn, it's the you're waiting in the inside of the Millennium Falcon. You can sit down at the table and play the little chess game.
00:29:49
Speaker
Arch was very into it. And then our ride broke. So we got to do it again. It was very cool. That is very cool. Yeah. Now, I wouldn't wait more than half an hour to do this, but...
00:30:03
Speaker
ah Some people would wait a lot longer, but that's that was my... I think we we got like a fast pass or something. RIP fast pass forever in our hearts. They got rid of it?
00:30:16
Speaker
ah It's now Lightning Lane. And you've got to pay for it. Oh, go to hell. Not you. but No, obviously not me. I know exactly what you're talking about.
00:30:29
Speaker
No. Disneyland and Disney World no longer fun. yeah it's it's I can't believe I'm saying this. A cash grab. one but say like Somehow they took it already a place that already nickel and dimed you into even more. It's like flying with United. it's It's worse than you can imagine.
00:30:52
Speaker
Anyway, that's why I like Star Trek more. Part of the reason. It never pretended it was anything other than a cash grab. No. It doesn't charge me extra to ride at one of its rides.
00:31:06
Speaker
Yeah. Laris berates Picard for wanting to leave and get tangled up in the synth mess. ah huh Like, why would I just liked her? I don't know. It's very like traditional. I'm pretty sure Michael, you know Michael Chabon probably just the idea of like an Irish lady yelling at you for like, Yeah.
00:31:25
Speaker
but Just being acting a fool. I thought that was nice moment. Laris really pops in season one, which is why the fans are like, are we going to see her again in season three? i Remember in the premiere? We're like, no, we're not.
00:31:37
Speaker
Yeah. cetera um In the end is the beginning. So the third episode, I'm spotlighting that opening flashback scene and as not a great moment.
00:31:49
Speaker
It should have been a great moment. And I'm going to tell you why we get a scene of Picard walking out of the Anaheim convention center, I guess. Is that what it is? It looked for a moment like the Getty, but it is not the Getty. No, it's definitely not the Getty.
00:32:02
Speaker
So because they shot the unless it's they shot the scene where he had the administrative building. Oh, it could be the Skirball. Hold You're right. You're you're actually think you're right. So anyway, he's walking out and then Rafi asks him what happened.
00:32:16
Speaker
And I really think instead of spending one hundred thousand dollars on a visual effect shot on the bridge of, you know, of the La Serena, where there's pop-up 3D displays when there doesn't need to be, or, so you know, Soji talking to her fake mom that we could have really spent the money to just populate a conference room with some people in Star Trek, Starfleet uniforms and have Picard do the meeting with Rafi next to him.
00:32:43
Speaker
And we just see the scene that he talks about instead of this five minute, nothing conversation of stuff we have to imagine. Like, Do you want OK, folks, you want to know why Picard's waiting to die on this vineyard and he's not in Starfleet? Here's the flashback that explains it when he pulled the I'm going to resign gambit and it blew up in his face.
00:33:05
Speaker
And it's like such a disappointment of like, wow, that would have been a much more interesting scene. So it's like a missed great moment, but it's like such something like called attention to itself, which like they it's like they kept talking about what their idea was for a great scene. andm like, why didn't you just do it?
00:33:20
Speaker
why is he just she's just like asking him leading questions and we parcel out the scene i'm like why didn't you just do that scene anyway and then i have a few more i have a couple more you have any more great moments no moments okay no i don't raffi confronting picard for never checking in on her over the past 14 years yeah good call good call and like i thought money didn't exist like how is she poor now i know it's so oh I yeah, I have questions. It's just it's just like today, but slightly futuristic is was the thrust of it.
00:33:57
Speaker
You know, as we as we got from Dodge and her boyfriend in the apartment and all that stuff, it's just like, what if today? But just with transporters. Yeah. and And so that's basically it. And but I you know, that scene itself, I mean, i have I have a thought later about it, but the moment of her pain and her confronting him and it's like Yeah, it a good little moment there. It good reminder to set up, like, why why are we watching this?
00:34:23
Speaker
Why is the story about this? And so just justifying it. Like, Picard kind of burned bridges personally, professionally, all the way around. So he's isolated himself. The other one I have is Hugh's moment.
00:34:35
Speaker
So Jonathan Del Arco is Hugh. where he basically talks to Soji and he points out how much he respects her for respecting these XBs and like trying to be empathetic and connect with them.
00:34:47
Speaker
um He's really good in the scene. i just thought he was like, it was a good moment of like, oh finally, he's got like a point of view. We know their history, but they're not telling us. his history, right? But you can see he's playing it.
00:34:58
Speaker
It's like a really calm scene. He's not trying to fuck her. There's no like weird, what's the backstory here? just like, I'm the head of this program and I appreciate how you're handling the people in the program. Like that's very straightforward. um And then I just want to point that I'm bringing it up also to bring up this point last year, friend of the pod, Laurie Ulster for check movie.com interviewed Jonathan Del Arco.
00:35:20
Speaker
So almost, you know, four plus years after this came out and she asked him all about this stuff. And then she asked him about how did you come to be on Star Trek Picard? And he says, James ah Duff was who co-wrote this episode. The third episode ah was the showrunner on the closer of major crimes and a very dear friend of mine and Jerry Ryan's.
00:35:42
Speaker
And he had been hired to come very early on. one of the early executive producers and writers of a spinoff of Star Trek. We didn't know what it was. There was no Picard yet.
00:35:52
Speaker
It was a spinoff of Star Trek. Alex Gritzman, James Duff, and I believe maybe and i believe maybe one one other writer was involved at the time. And James really wanted it to be a Borg spinoff.
00:36:04
Speaker
That's why he talked to Jerry and i and really started talking to them about being this Borg storyline. And somewhere within that, he discussed it with us maybe a year before it ever happened. And they didn't have Patrick yet. So I think when they went and made the pitch to Patrick, but Patrick had not done it.
00:36:18
Speaker
So it was going to be a Hugh and seven of nine Borg spinoff show. And then they got Patrick Stewart and then it all changed.
00:36:30
Speaker
So it's just kind of amazing to think like he was supposed to be running. Like it was supposed to be a team up spinoff of like X Borgs doing who knows what.
00:36:40
Speaker
So he's coming into the show being like, this was supposed to be my show. Like, And I think that's the energy he brings. of he's He's bringing a main character energy to the moment. So i don't know. I'm just spotlighting that as a great moment.
00:36:55
Speaker
What could have been best Trek tropes? I have three. um Actually, before we do that, can I add one thing? Yes. We do have an Astro Burger.
00:37:07
Speaker
award to hand out because in legends, we see some really horrible TV dinners that the people on Mars have to eat.
00:37:18
Speaker
That's true. And just wanted to, ah as an honorable mention, I don't know if it deserves the award outright, but as an honorable mention, i must, I must mention it. The Astro burger award for best or worst food styling yeah goes to bad food styling on a utopia planitia.
00:37:36
Speaker
Yeah, because they're like, oh shit, this is horrible. this was horrible like They're saying it's horrible. yeah And I believe them. It does not look good. it doesn't look good. yeah They're not getting the truffles on on Mars, I guess.
00:37:52
Speaker
It was Mars, right? It was Mars, yeah. Okay. okay okay Best Trek tropes. I have three. Okay, I have a few more than that. We have ah Romulan ale mention...
00:38:05
Speaker
ah And that goes into, this is more of an Irish trope, which maybe I should could have should've put in worse, but Laris says that her mom got drunk one night and let it slip that there's a secret cabal.
00:38:22
Speaker
You want to talk about convoluted. So there's the Romulan military. That is the most believable part of the story. Is that Laris' mom got drunk and let the and spilled the beans one night, and that's how she knows about it.
00:38:37
Speaker
The beans are that there's... So the Romulan Star Command that we all know about... the the the above them is their seat their CIA basically yeah which is the Tal Shiar like the Obsidian Order or Starfleet Intelligence but maybe Section 31 for the Federation and then it turns out because the Romulans are so secretive that their CIA is actually run by and like the super CIA called the Jat Vashj
00:39:11
Speaker
hu I have more to say about them a little bit. that's a You know what? That's a great Irish trope. And since Laris is character... Well, myp my uncle got drunk at Thanksgiving and started saying he had something to a Kennedy assassination. like That is a pretty classic trope of... like a boot like A boomer has a story like that. Any you any baby boomer has a story of some like someone let something slip that could have been bullshit.
00:39:43
Speaker
Or who knows. And this is Laris's. This is a good use of Romulan ale. I agree. This is a good. This is a great trope. um and I also have.
00:39:55
Speaker
We got a mention of the Gorn. Although they don't say they're monsters this time. But it's it's implied. And San Francisco still exists. Yeah. That's good. one We have the evil admiral.
00:40:09
Speaker
Yep, I have that bad roll. Yeah. so yeah Shifty Romulans. Yep. And I'm skipping all the way to the end. to end as the beginning when Rafi shows up to the ship and she's like, hey, who the hell is this Dr. Jurati person?
00:40:29
Speaker
Why didn't you let me do a security clearance on her? And she is 100% right. Oh, yeah. She should have thrown that bitch off the ship immediately.
00:40:40
Speaker
And this just, and if you haven't seen season three, I guess spoilers. This just goes into why I know this is how ah this is the type of instincts I think Worf saw in her and was like, yeah, this is my girl.
00:40:55
Speaker
hmm. yeah About the bad moral thing, you know, she's not like the traditional bad moral. We're talking about Admiral fuck. Admiral fancy.
00:41:07
Speaker
She's not like she has her own agenda. That's evil. And like is involved. I mean, it did involve killing people because they're like, screw the Romulans. But like she has. a yeah I think we're maybe like. Yeah, that's in the past. Rushing under the rug what maybe evil seems like. But I would say she's she's certainly a contender for evil.
00:41:28
Speaker
She is, but in the moment that she's talking, we don't know she was the commander Starfleet at the time. know what I mean? Like, that's not, I'm willing to say, like, she wasn't in charge when the decision was made. shes She's fine with it.
00:41:40
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, go shoot. Everyone gets genocide. Yeah, can't try to stop Yeah, exactly. But like, she's not a traditionally bad Admiral. Like she actually then goes to the head of Starfleet intelligence is like, you know what, just in case this worthless pile of shit who came in here and rambled. this senile In case he has he's on to something, check it. You know what I mean? Like, so that's different.
00:42:03
Speaker
It's just like what makes her really. She's a big fucking bitch, though, about it. i Yeah, but she to me, the the bigger offense is like because I her point of view is very clear. And I'm like, OK, if she has no respect for this guy who hasn't been in Starfleet for a long time and is 100 percent from her perspective, way more trouble than he's worth, then I can understand why she's just so aggressively.
00:42:27
Speaker
She's like, I'm going to hear what this kook has. This old man has to say most like two seconds in. He's like, I would be, you know, I need to go on a mission. Yeah, ill give me a ship and ball of stuff. She's like, fuck you.
00:42:39
Speaker
Fine. But like that what makes her evil is this like art of the possible centrist thinking, which betrays all of Star Trek. She's just like, this is the best we could do. We had to make decisions, you know, and some people had to die.
00:42:52
Speaker
so it's like the banality of evil is what makes her a bad moral. And ah and. don't just thought I thought the performance was good, too. So it's like hard for me to hate the character. i remember at the time, um a bunch of Gen Xers, ah former guest of the show, Craig Calcaterra, was like, oh, my gosh, she's the the lead singer. She's in a band called Bong Water. I have no idea what that is.
00:43:13
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah. wow guys ah she Apparently she's a Broadway actress. Bondwater still thing, like the actual... In 1990, the New York Times called her an endearing theatrical chameleon who has as many characters at her fingertips as Lily Tomlin does.
00:43:29
Speaker
so Well, yeah, i get apparently not. Picard being an asshole to people who care about him. Like I alluded to in the laughing moment. Come on. It's kind of also working to position him as the anti-hero of the show. Like make this an anti-hero show, which it clearly could never be.
00:43:47
Speaker
But it it's still actually true to his character. but yeah He closes people off all the time. Just ask Beverly Crusher.
00:43:58
Speaker
Oh, we will. yeah We're going to hear from her. And about 15 episodes or so. I am not... And I'm not ashamed to admit this, ah for best Trek trope, my last, my third, is the go-to-work catchphrase.
00:44:14
Speaker
Ah! Because Picard's saying engage. it so undergo you It's a little bit undermined by that ugly ship, the La Serena. Oh, God. It's completely kind of unearned, I guess. He's like, you know...
00:44:29
Speaker
Rios could be let's go. He's like, you know i'm waiting on you. When are we leaving? that book card you know He doesn't properly cue him. He kind of like ellipses cues him. I to remember at the time when the trailer came out and Picard does, it's the shot of him being engaged.
00:44:44
Speaker
Like, I just remember people I didn't follow on social or people I follow on social media, if I had no idea were Star Trek fans, were like, this made me very happy. i was a little kid suddenly. And I'm like, I got to appreciate that. And yeah what Patrick Stewart looked like he enjoyed doing it, which you couldn't always say and this show as we go along.
00:45:03
Speaker
Yeah. So I got to put it it. And also, it's just like, that's probably what emboldened them. It should be a worst trope because it it seems like that's what emboldened them to keep doing it in all the other shows.
00:45:16
Speaker
But if you're going to steal, I guess steal from the best. And anyway, worst Trek tropes. I have many. Yeah. The Zhat Vash. Just learning about it can break a person's mind.
00:45:32
Speaker
And then hold on. ah Let me try to remember how this was said. oh they're overriding the part particular residuum, particle residuum.
00:45:44
Speaker
That was a line that was uttered. I didn't care for it. It sounded very stupid. I think this falls under my worst trick. do it Yeah. The technology. Yeah. yeah the of It wasn't even techno babble so much as. Because in the moment where she kind of uses techno babble to explain how they might be able to locate the twin.
00:46:03
Speaker
i was like, that's fine. Actually, that makes So those who haven't seen it, they show up to this woman's apartment. ah What's her name? Daja's apartment. Daja's apartment where the boyfriend was murdered.
00:46:14
Speaker
And they have some, she has some secret Romulan technology that re-particleizes things so you can see what happened. They could have just said, oh, this model replicator has a camera in it.
00:46:26
Speaker
And these Romulans wouldn't have known about it. And they could played the scene. Okay? Like... There's no need to make up this nonsense. Just say, oh, she had a Nest Cam.
00:46:37
Speaker
It's also... That they missed. It's also the... so stupid it is hack science fiction shit and i'm gonna tell you it is even stupider than any ah like it is it's when a throwaway scene basically they're doing a csi scene and they're trying to figure out what is 24th century csi and this is what you come up with when you've never written science fiction before sorry people are going to be appalled by that statement but like just because you're an amazing writer doesn't mean you can write every genre yeah and this is like clearly like they don't know what they're doing i'm gonna you how yeah if you write historical romance novels i maybe don't try your hand at advanced science fiction or whatever or vice versa okay the i don't i know what i don't remember i don't like a science fiction writer writing romance i don't want to read that at all
00:47:26
Speaker
In the 2008 Knight Rider relaunch show on NBC, this was a piece of technology they used in that show. And it was as stupid.
00:47:37
Speaker
It was as stupid. They're like, what if you could go into a room and like recreate the sound or the vision, the the light from. You mean is like if you've got a camera there. yes exactly but what if you didn't but what if you brought one in could you recom recombine matter or whatever so this yeah stupid it's not technobabble it's just stupid magic to but it was so stupid like that's the part that i i hated just like what the lines meant nothing but it was just like oh someone was really been missing okay Yes. But what you can read reconstruct, what they've reconstructed is essentially like camera obscura, which is a technology that is like 500 years old.
00:48:19
Speaker
But now today, he's like trying to make, there is a trying to make it sound at like they've purged. Like you can't even tell there was like residual energy. Like the matter is all wiped away. And then what does Commodore O do in episode two?
00:48:31
Speaker
She catches of stray reflection in like a pillar. on the side and she's like you didn't clear everything up but it's like well then what is the technology yeah but again it's just so some kind of oh she left her webcam on yeah it's like that would have made worse or they could have been like oh actually we're solving this old school i see carpet fibers and hair and stuff that you know obviously it is not whatever devil It is not technobabble because it is a, we don't know how to get from A to b So we have to like shoehorn and we just have to make you go with it.
00:49:10
Speaker
But then for some reason they don't do the go with it. It's what you said. They like spend more time trying to convince you of the go with it than the just go with it. Or like, oh, they erased her camera, but like the guy across the way had a ring camera and we saw him coming in the door, you know, something.
00:49:27
Speaker
Yeah. something like I'm fine with like oh they had a signal and so it messed up some of the frames of the camera but you know we can actually look at it frame by frame or something like eat it's so stupid but why do we need we don't there's two bits in there or even like if they went to a hologram they're like oh give us every scenario that could have happened like if it's given this many people or whatever I don't know but like something that is not this stupid But the part where she like goes through her FaceTime log and it's like the computer does all these calculations under the surface and there might have been an instance where they were talking to each other and the computer got confused and filed that as corrected the error instantaneously, they may the Romulans might not have thought to purge that.
00:50:18
Speaker
that's exactly what she does and then she finds and they find so like why did we have the other stupid thing before that because it show up there look and see lose yeah it makes a whole sequence also it would have been cheaper yes from a production standpoint to show to the crummy apartment which is ah definitely on a sound stage and it's like 10 by 10 and be like oh that's weird there's a burn in the carpet from a Romulan whatever, blah, blah, blah.
00:50:47
Speaker
Yeah. and what do they call their stupid weapons? Disruptors. Disruptors, whatever. That don't have stun settings, by the way, we're told. Yes. ah Yeah, in case anyone forgot.
00:50:59
Speaker
And yeah, some kind of clue gathering. mean, like, well, let's check our call logs. I don't, I didn't need the, we're going to put together the the matter particles see what happened. Like, it's dumb. Yeah.
00:51:12
Speaker
because they're trying to show that Laris has these abilities, but like if she's she doesn't need to have magic technology. Like that actually something you would give to the Zhat Vash to show like, okay, something else weird is going on. But like, if she's just straight up regular intelligence, then what she does when she sits down at the computer terminal makes way more sense than the first thing. So yes.
00:51:33
Speaker
And also if you're if you're intercutting that sequence with her talking about how do you never notice how there's not AI and blah, blah, blah. What do you think that technology is probably using? It's using some sort of artificial intelligence to construct. Yeah, what?
00:51:51
Speaker
It's so stupid. It's just dumb. It's not technobal. Like they have artificial intelligence intelligence, but they don't put it in like a fake human being to make it look like a person. Like it's. yeah yeah the raw Although it makes more sense that the Romulan artificial intelligence is like the kind we have now that's just using all of the world's resources to hallucinate sources for legal cases.
00:52:18
Speaker
Right. Like, useless. Right. Yeah. um But I have this under magic technology. So not just the light waves, but the instant transporters with people walking in and out start mid headquarters.
00:52:30
Speaker
What if people collide like accidentally or walking at the same time? Like, you know what i mean? Like it just raises way more questions. So it's like we just have open portals. Like, yeah why is the transporting instantaneous? But sometimes it's like, it doesn't make sense. And it seems like it's just an accident waiting to happen. You get it a lot of two VIXs.
00:52:49
Speaker
If like, what if two people walk in at the same time or cross paths? It's it's just like ridiculous. and The way that they portrayed it of like, it's just like a flow of traffic. of people walking through a turnstile it's like i don't get that so it it's just like people can't even figure out how to walk through a turnstile or through like a subway exit or even like one of those the spinning door this round door what what the fuck are they called know sorry hotels and such yeah yeah yeah that you can get caught in yeah yeah okay any other worst trick tropes oh geez yes um
00:53:26
Speaker
What kind of accent is all are the Rios holograms trying to do? This actor, I think... is this a what what's Okay, bad accents. Okay, that's fine. I think this actor lied on his resume.
00:53:39
Speaker
I can do an Irish accent. and I can do ah this accent, and he cannot. and it is and know The trek trope being it's a a hologram made in someone's image.
00:53:53
Speaker
But now we get to see it interact with the actual person whose image it it's in, and it's just very grating. But the accents in particular, I, ugh.
00:54:04
Speaker
But bad accents, yuck. Bad accent works because Scotty, and you know what mean, like just like stereotypical accents. No, this makes Scotty's accent look completely authentic, okay?
00:54:15
Speaker
This is bad. This is Dick Van Dyke international incident bad. Santiago Cabrera plays Rios. He was born in Baracus to Chilean parents.
00:54:30
Speaker
He grew up in London, Romania, Toronto, and Madrid. And although he considers Santiago... Although he considers Chile his home, he splits his time between London and LA.
00:54:41
Speaker
He's a classically trained actor having studied at London's prestigious drama center. So when he made his premiere and he was London stage playing Montano and Othello. And so, okay. So classically trained actor, confident, he confidently doing accent work of questionable quality.
00:55:01
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, he thinks he's fucking nailing it for sure. He is not nailing it. I don't know. i don't know where it's coming from. Like, I don't know what the accent was. The last one.
00:55:14
Speaker
addition to his native Spanish, is fluent in English, French and Italian. Wow. We'll see. They don't make him French or Italian. I would just stick to French and Italian.
00:55:25
Speaker
Yeah, i don't know. They already have an Irish person, so why another Irish person? Why not... why not Super Mario. Just do the Italian. Like he's literally an engineer. when It's me, the engineer.
00:55:41
Speaker
It's me, Rios. why Yeah, I don't understand the accent for the hologram. Okay, whatever. It's stupid. It's like, I can do a bunch of accents and that's what I want to do. I don't know.
00:55:52
Speaker
Someone let him go on too far and they should have been like, oh, we're cutting you off.
00:55:59
Speaker
And also...
00:56:03
Speaker
Um, so this one, i this one's not so much a Trek trope, but it's certainly a trope in I guess, any type of fictional works where ah man like, I guess I'll distract this woman by saying I'm falling in love with her.
00:56:22
Speaker
So what's his face? The bad Romulan. Okay. Narek. Narek, whatever. Who's trying to, um,
00:56:33
Speaker
seduce Daja's sister whose name is pretty much inconsequential really what what's her name? Soji. Soji whatever and yet into she he's trying to seduce her so that he she gives up all the goods but like she's clearly upset and then he's just like i think I'm falling in love with you to distract her from being upset and it works and that's very stupid.
00:57:03
Speaker
It's
00:57:06
Speaker
ah stay on the board cube with that storyline. The terrible costumes. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. Soji and Narek are just in plain black underwear or just like sports gear.
00:57:18
Speaker
ah Yeah. Sex scenes. There's like Soji. like...
00:57:25
Speaker
$100 for the scene. What are we going to Soji's regular uniform or costume is like ah like a gray jumpsuit. And then for safety's sake, they have them put on these see-through, thin, materialed red jumpsuits with like really chintzy zippers ah with these stupid badges. And she's got like this like ugly latex glove.
00:57:47
Speaker
I don't know. It's just the costumes on that ship, because obviously all the money is going towards the Borg guts and all that stuff. Like, yeah, just that whatever. It's not that it looks like they're putting and they're not like the actual stars. Yeah, it's just so it's just like this is this thing that the others, the 90s Treks had where it's just like great.
00:58:08
Speaker
ah This alien race, they're all wearing ground like smocks. ah ah Like there' there's, we don't have enough money to like decorate them. Just give them like a bolt of cloth, whatever around them.
00:58:21
Speaker
And that's what's happening here. um I have one more. ahead. Are the brother and sister going fuck or what? Well, so that's... not I feel like that's a very like Game of Thrones thing. They're like, well, let's try to make it like sexy.
00:58:36
Speaker
And they're like, I know what everyone loves. Incest. That was my next that worst Trek trope. It's a Secret Hideout era Star Trek one. The hacky arch villains.
00:58:48
Speaker
They're just like they're British sounding, so they must be inbred as well. or like Oh my god. Just looking at the boy. yeah The guy, for just like... Right, you they are trying to do Cersei and Jaime. Millennia of banging your own cousin.
00:59:07
Speaker
But just like how arch these villains are Commodore O being immediately recognizably evil. Am I going to have to take things into my own hands? I mean, that's just the worst trope, the British.
00:59:19
Speaker
Like, just...
00:59:23
Speaker
and yeah have british the britishes here and We've had British guests. We'll to cut that. but yeah dode just yeah it's just hacky i am of British heritage, so it's fine.
00:59:35
Speaker
but And you are of Irish heritage, so also fine. That's true. ah But also why it should be. Yeah, you know what? Wait a minute. I'm sorry to my ancestors for suggesting I go easier.
00:59:49
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, but also just in terms of how bad these are. On St. Patrick's Day and everything. I can't believe it. That's This is probably our St. Patrick's Day episode, too. No, it's the beginning of March, but we'll get... Well, okay. All right.
01:00:03
Speaker
Close. It's in the spirit, yes. The Ides of March. and were oh why like the Just how bad the villains are is probably... and like Not even Arch, but just like they're bad.
01:00:17
Speaker
So the Romulan commandos that... Yeah, they're incompetent, too. get taken out by a bunch of old people then a ah anxious doctor but anyway why does the captured Romulan say I'm not going to tell you anything and then he gets punched really hard and then he tells them the destroyer line like he does tell them something and then he he chews the suicide pill and by the way the suicide pill that the Romulan secret police have come up with over the course of how many millennia is something that
01:00:53
Speaker
burns, like dissolves his body as if he's being put in a vat of acid. It is clearly painful and horrifying. And like people can't, you know, human beings and like without electricity and running water came up with ways to kill themselves quickly.
01:01:15
Speaker
that are much less painful and disgusting. Now, wonder if they did that because that's how they figured out how to kill in the first episode. Because remember, she's got that one commando on the ground, and he bites his and spits the acid at her, and then it melts through.
01:01:32
Speaker
I guess because she has a nuclear reactor in her middle, she just blows up. Oh, yeah, like like ah when ah when a Tesla is... whos see So if anyone who's listening is not aware of this. If you have a lithium by of battery in like your car, your golf cart, whatever, in your house somewhere like a big one, if you live in a storm surge area where seawater could get to that area, um it will cause a fire in the battery and you literally can't put it out.
01:02:02
Speaker
So your whole house or building, wherever you are, will burn down. And you can't you can't put it out without special chemicals or something like that. My last two are more fun. This one is, I'd recognize that place anywhere.
01:02:17
Speaker
Not only do we get famous Trek filming location, Vasquez rocks, which they didn't even bother to disguise. And in fact, in the end of the beginning, they just say Vasquez rocks as the title card, which um I feel like breaks reality a little bit, but also it's just like, so what? Rafi just got this to herself.
01:02:37
Speaker
She's like, there's no one else living here. It's very strange choice, but anyway. And then the other one is the Anaheim convention center at Starfleet headquarters. Although we don't know that's what it is. It is the Anaheim Convention Center where they shot it.
01:02:49
Speaker
And I've been there and they did no so But then the the pickup shot where they... This pickup shot is different. I think you're right. it is I don't know. It looks so fake. It's hard to say where it was. But the Skrull Ball Center does have a lot of gardens that look like that. The building looks like that. Although, so I don't know. do you watch... Sorry, continue. I'll talk about this later.
01:03:10
Speaker
And then the last one is, it's a Picard-specific trope that we will find out. Every character wants to die. And everybody wants to blow their brains out. so yeah so uh raffi is borderline suicidal rios is borderline suicidal the android blows their brains out the ramda romulan when she meets soji she's like fuck this and she tries to blow her brains It's just a thing. It's going to be a boutique through the season of like everyone's miserable and wants to die. And it's like, is everyone having trouble making the show? What's going on here? Yeah, it's it's pretty. It's i'm ah going back and rewatching. It's only funny to me at this point.
01:03:56
Speaker
Most cosplayable character or a moment. um ok Maybe... I'm open to discussion. Maybe the synth that goes on the rampage, but not actually pretending kill people, just like dressed up like that.
01:04:13
Speaker
but don I'm not fully convinced. where you're You've got the F8 fate stamped on your forehead? I guess you could do that. i don't know. I have hard time. yeah Hell yeah.
01:04:24
Speaker
You say see that? yeah Mine was... There are sickos out there, Kristen, who love Star Trek Picard. I don't know that those would say. That's fine. think there's a lot to love in terms of like, it is somewhat, like, i it's somewhat entertaining.
01:04:42
Speaker
i think the... It's hard to take notes while I'm watching it because there's not much to take notes on, but like, that doesn't mean it's bad. I think that anytime Patrick Stewart's on the screen, like, it's... it's fun like there's there's captive card uh good point i think a good contrarian costume my pitch is soji's awful red see-through safety just with the stupid badge and then also the see-through face mask she's wearing on the board cube yeah you know that's like that was i was like is this covid foreshadowing
01:05:21
Speaker
What are we doing? When was it shot? It was shot at the in 2019. Because they're like, well, you have to wear a face mask because this could be some kind of... There could be something contagious.
01:05:34
Speaker
Right. But we still have to see their face. but Right, because you'll notice that there are other people wearing the masks and those aren't see-through, but because she's a lead... she's the Yeah, she's one of the leads, we're we're supposed to believe anyway.
01:05:47
Speaker
hello on paper so i would put that as i that was the only thing that stuck out to me is like that might be fun to see is like why are all your clothes see-through and then only the sickos would know like she's she's soji asha so yeah uh now it's time for the line must be drawn yeah great lines i don't have that many because i had watched this before and for whatever reason that makes me not pay attention to words anyway And then, ah so when Captain Picard says, I never, sorry, Admiral, ah disgraced Admiral, whatever.
01:06:22
Speaker
i never dreamed that Starfleet would give in to intolerance and fear. And then another one where I tried my best to belong to this place, but I don't think I ever truly felt at home here.
01:06:39
Speaker
That's when he's about to leave to yeah leave the chateau. Leave the vineyard. in there yeah He's off to points unknown. So for Maps and Legends, episode two, I had two of Dr. Benayune's lines.
01:06:54
Speaker
By the way, I missed... That was one of my great moments, was them at the fire. Just shooting the breeze and also, oh, by the way, you're going to die. Dr. Ben Aoun was his ah chief medical officer on the Stargazer, as he kind of mentions, and he's basically giving him, Picard, his health update.
01:07:14
Speaker
I have to be completely honest with you. i haven't let go of my first thought from five years ago. of Like, where the fuck is Dr. Crusher? Yeah. I don't give a shit. I understand that David Pamer probably needs to get his hours to keep his health insurance with SAG.
01:07:28
Speaker
And he's probably friends with most of the people making the show. So fine, I guess. But it's also like the the going out of their way to not bring back any of the TNG cast. This is a moment that's calling attention to itself.
01:07:42
Speaker
So. That was tough. He had two, I liked two of his lines there. For a relic, you're in excellent shape. And then, i don't know what kind of trouble you're planning to get into.
01:07:52
Speaker
Maybe if you're lucky, it will kill you first. Yeah. Because it's a fate worse than neural degeneration, which is what he's facing. Yeah, and then, I don't know, I don't remember which episode it's in, but when, what's the male Romulan's name? Laris' brother?
01:08:14
Speaker
It's not her brother. It's like her husband. I thought it was her brother. because remember in season three, she's talking about her dead husband. That's why she and Picard are hooking up now.
01:08:24
Speaker
Oh, no, because I thought he was like, oh, that's more because he was she was talking about her mom. And it's like, yeah. And then he was like, oh, our uncle also or something like that.
01:08:36
Speaker
Maybe we all just forgot. okay Okay. Well, whatever. It's immaterial. It's like K-Bahn or something. Whatever his name is. It doesn't matter. He's like oh, yeah, you're getting the whole crew to back together. You're going get Geordi. You're going to get Worf. You're going to Riker. And then he's like, nah, I can't do that. And like, why Jesus?
01:08:54
Speaker
I'm like, no, no, no. This is off the books. I can't put them in danger. Yeah. Which makes sense. It does, except he says Worf, and I'm like, I would take Worf.
01:09:06
Speaker
if If I knew Worf would go, i would just call Worf. yeah Like, yo, Worf, you up for this one? Like, it would be an honor, sir. Yeah. He's like, you're going to go alone? no, I'm stay where you are. I'll be there.
01:09:20
Speaker
Cause like Worf doesn't care if he dies on a mission that he believes is honorable. So it's, you're taking Worf. It's stupid. Like Riker in the forge. It's like, okay, he's got reasons. I'm surprised Worf doesn't live in like the guest house.
01:09:33
Speaker
Yeah. but no it's just like he doesn't love him that much he's just like no like do you need like or like periodically checking off if he needs any off the books missions or whatever i was okay with the reason picard said that no i me too me too also you can't bring the whole crew back on episode two right right You got to get this ragtag team of idiots together and then Rafi and everyone's going to be like, oh no, I miss the other guys.
01:10:06
Speaker
I don't know. Rewatching this, I still think they shouldn't have been a bunch of ragtag idiots. I really think they should have been like kids who were on the enterprise and Picard was whatever lives didn't work out the way they wanted. And now they get like ah a second chance because they get to be like back with the guy who inspired them initially.
01:10:24
Speaker
Yeah. that's that Even rewatching it. I'm like, that's what's missing. There's not a connection. So they're forcing it and it doesn't feel right. Yeah. I don't appreciate the, the nobodies, but here's the thing though. Like Rafi is a new character to us.
01:10:42
Speaker
And we're like, oh no, we like her. Like we're on her side immediately. Right. But the other ones, it's like, i don't care. I don't care about. Yeah. The other ones are, I mean, Raffi, it's tough. Cause I think that that character has not, is, does not, is not a well-written character.
01:10:58
Speaker
And so it's tough because it's like, no, she's got a good chemistry. I like her energy. Like, yeah and she is playing the role that they are trying to define but like, she's so weirdly written in a way that's like, it doesn't quite mesh, but like she and Patrick Stewart play off of like, well, at some point they were thick as thieves.
01:11:16
Speaker
Like you totally buy that. No, like it's believable that she was him young. yeah Like that all tracks. It all makes sense. Um, All right. So then the other line was Laris's line.
01:11:27
Speaker
No, of course. it If it's important to Jean-Luc Picard, it must be important to the whole galaxy. That's the scene where she's berating him for wanting to go on a mission. I don't necessarily always pick funny lines, but like I like when they're funny and they resonate.
01:11:40
Speaker
And the show is trying to like lay the line... lay down this groundwork of like, it's not the pet, it's not the captain Picard from your, that you remember as this hero, you know, he's a complicated person.
01:11:50
Speaker
And so having people call it out in different ways throughout the episode so is like a really good way of building on that in a way that, you know, he's not just an asshole to people.
01:12:02
Speaker
Yeah. so Some people see the self-importance. Other people respect when he makes a speech, whatever. um dan in the The end is the beginning. I have two great lines. do you have any more? No.
01:12:13
Speaker
the car So Picard tells Rafi when she's talking about the hollow, he goes an unmitigated disaster, which. Come on. Yeah. Is he talking about the interview or is he talking about the show?
01:12:28
Speaker
We'll but find out. We'll see. Yeah. And then Hughes line. There is no more despised people in the galaxy than the XBs. People either see us as property to be exploited or as a hazard to be warehoused.
01:12:41
Speaker
Our hosts, the Romulans, have a more expansive vision. They see us as both. That is... I'm pretty sure that's some, like... top tier Michael Chabon writing. Yeah. And it's like got the subtlety in there and like the kind of musical construction and Jonathan Del Arco delivers it well and it plants an interesting idea, which listener, if you're only listening to us and not watching the episodes, I promise you doesn't go anywhere interesting, but it's still in this moment. It works really well.
01:13:08
Speaker
And, ah and because of how it's written performed, uh, the Anton Kroenian award for best performance. Yeah. Oh, we don't have time for that, do we I didn't put one down. I put Anne Magnusson.
01:13:20
Speaker
Okay. And then the Shatner, I have to put it. I have to stop the podcast because I totally forgot in rewatching this. The Romulan who gives the safety preamble at the checkpoint where he's like playing it like ah they're about to walk into a haunted house.
01:13:34
Speaker
That is the most Shatner over the top, ridiculous performance in the history of Star Trek. There is no question about it. It is a Shatner from his look, his hairstyle, the eyebrows, the gloves, his his mincing, weird hand motions and spooky deliveries.
01:13:52
Speaker
His name is Marty Matulas. ah He has been in many, many, many things. ah And if your gradient badge starts to blink, run. Everything about that moment is ridiculous, but His performance is so ridiculously over the top.
01:14:09
Speaker
It like actually breaks the show. So like the scene with Admiral Clancy, where she says he's sheer fucking hubris of Picard to come in here and demand things is like it breaks Star Trek. At least to me, it like really kind of says, OK, the Star Trek you knew is dead.
01:14:24
Speaker
We're doing something else. That's one thing. This scene, though, the scene with this guy, it like goes, wait, are we supposed to be taking the show seriously or is it camp? You know what I mean? Like it's that ridiculously over the top. He's going for whatever.
01:14:39
Speaker
It's so weird. I don't know. So I got to say that.
Holonovel Debate and Recognition of Starfleet Captains
01:14:42
Speaker
Would this be a fun hollow novel to play out either episode? No. yeah Not for me. but i mean, who are you playing and what part of it is fun? Are you playing Captain Admiral Picard where everyone hates you and you're old and they don't know who you are?
01:14:55
Speaker
right The girl who wants to fuck her brother? like what do you What's fun about this? yeah are you like Where you're like gasping for breath because like the just moving quickly to hide behind your desk takes the wind out what is like There's no fun there.
01:15:10
Speaker
do you yeah Do you want to be the iny incestuous Romulans? Do you want to be the kind of... Do you want to be Soji... I guess. No, none of that's fun. What part of this will they teach at Starfleet Academy?
01:15:23
Speaker
They're not teaching who Captain Picard is. He's not recognizable on site. Yeah. That's why there's not like a statue of him in the lobby. Yeah. i probably one Do you think there there's got to be like a statue of Kirk somewhere, right?
01:15:39
Speaker
There is. the The new people would probably... The people making the show are trying to like downplay... We'd see the Pike statue before we saw the Kirk statue. We saw a Rachel Garrett statue before we saw a Kirk statue.
01:15:53
Speaker
I think when Shatner dies, a lot of this will change. I'm not saying what does... No, I don't have anything for this. Because I forgot about it and then I didn't write anything down.
01:16:05
Speaker
But let me think. Um... Nothing. What part of this, of either episode, will Picard omit? We're bringing this back.
01:16:16
Speaker
Yeah. Because we're doing so much. I have something for this one. What will he omit or embellish from his from his memoir? Obviously, he's omitting the young receptionist who didn't know who the hell he was.
01:16:28
Speaker
That whole sequence is totally different. No, the whole thing. Well, we we did we had a disagreement, but she agreed that I was... on the right track or whatever.
01:16:40
Speaker
yeah
Picard's Memoirs and Patrick Stewart's Influence
01:16:41
Speaker
so she could She couldn't give me a ship at that time. Budget cuts. Yes, but it was understood that I was to pursue this.
01:16:50
Speaker
Yeah. Undaunted, you know, yeah I carried on. I have an embellishment. okay I think we should try to do that. for which east one What's he not saying? What's he embellishing? I think he's going to be like, this guy Rios, talk about a narcissist.
01:17:10
Speaker
He had like five holograms of himself all in different weird accents.
01:17:16
Speaker
That's a good one. a Mine was, I think this Dr. Jurati is coming on to me. She showed up at my house and yeah killed these Romulans somehow. really wants to come on the mission with me.
01:17:27
Speaker
like and she's seen She's coming to my house. She's reading my books. I think she's in this young blonde woman is into me. um Or is like, of course, maybe she saw me as like a ah father figure. Yeah, yeah. She respects me completely. and You could tell there was a tension. totally Completely above board. Because at this point, we should we all should know like Patrick Stewart has infused Picard with a lot of his personality. That's what happens when you play a role for so long.
01:17:55
Speaker
yeah and patrick stewart is a horny man who is no stranger to dating women or marrying women much younger than yes uh so trek marry or kill maps and legends um i don't feel like killing it because it's not compared to season two it's not that bad I did not like the Mars flashback and I did not like the Admiral fuck scene.
01:18:21
Speaker
but Like, I feel i do I agree with them that we needed to see something. And I'm saying, i think those still work to set up what the show is. Even if they're not like good star Trek that, yeah, it's kind of hard to say like, well it's not like it, there is some not good stuff in there. There's for sure.
Episode Assessments and Future Discussions
01:18:40
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. It's a Trek. So then the end is the beginning though.
01:18:45
Speaker
ah I'm killing that one. um I guess, yeah, fine. that's I'm fine with it. I don't know. Well, what was what was the standout moment in The End is the Beginning, the second episode? oh no it's just they all Well, I did like the little fight until Dr. Jurati shows up.
01:19:06
Speaker
Well, that's that gets undermined by that. I was like, what in the good... I forgot about this. i was like, what in the good fuck is she doing there? like Nobody there was like, that's suspicious.
01:19:16
Speaker
I liked the Picard and Ryo scene a little bit, but the holographic stuff is such a weird distraction. know what I mean? like It undermines all that. um The Narek stuff with Soji is like... what Even though I liked the beat with with ronda the romulan i like that and hugh is obviously in the episode too yeah it's kind of hard to kill an episode with hugh in in there um that is foreshadowing and so i don't know so you don't you think they should both be tracks i mean you can kill it and i can track it then we can make it a poll for six months it's not six months it's like five weeks
01:19:55
Speaker
um It's currently October. This doesn't air till March. So it's going to be actually probably closer like nine months.
01:20:04
Speaker
how do you How are you figuring this? When it runs in March, that's when the polls start. and then Correct. So we have to wait six months from today. at least. Correct? That's right. yeah At least.
01:20:16
Speaker
And then you keep the poll open for quite some time. I'll probably keep the poll open until the end of April 1st. Until Patrick's Day. so April 1st.
01:20:27
Speaker
April 1st. The only problem is like, well, then we might amass some other tiebreakers, but all right, we'll do a tiebreaker. That's fair enough. Okay. So we tracked maps and legends. Soft trek from me. Yeah. And then on the end is the beginning.
01:20:40
Speaker
Oh, the end of the beginning just has, you know, it has the, it opens with a five minute scene of, of two characters talking about something that would have been way more interesting to see. So it kind of, it gets off on a bad foot and then whatever.
01:20:51
Speaker
So yeah we'll leave it up to you to decide next week. We'll be back with three episodes, but we're actually only talk about two because one of those episodes, Kristen, is one that you demanded died immediately. You supreme courted that. You did not see its execution. I will probably still want talk about a little bit of it.
01:21:11
Speaker
I'm going to have to mention in some way. I'm not going to go through the whole shebang of all the grades. But there are certain things I have to mention. So because we've killed episode five of the season already, Stardust City. A preemptive kill.
01:21:27
Speaker
Yes, we are doing covering four and six, but five will be mentioned. So we'll go over roughly what happens. Yes. It's very stupid.
01:21:38
Speaker
It's very stupid. But next week we get seven of nine into the show, which yeah will be, which will be exciting. And Elnor, which is probably less exciting if I'm being honest, but it'll be there. Who's that?
01:21:52
Speaker
Well, you'll just have to watch and find out. Whatever. We're CheckMarryKpod on social media, checkmarrykillpod.com on the web, where you can see all our standings and vote in this tie-breaking poll for episode two.
01:22:04
Speaker
I will, like, completely forget about this once it airs. and I'll be like, i don't care anymore. All right. So until next week, TMK out. Bye.