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Lori Vallow Part 2 (Sins of Our Mother)
149 Plays4 months ago
This week on Mothers of All Crime Monica and Krystal finish up the recap of Sins of Our Mother.
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May contain explicit language and unfounded accusations.
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Transcript
Introduction to Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell Crimes
00:00:44
Speaker
Welcome back to the Mothers of All Crime. This week we're going to be talking about part two of our recap of Sins of Our Mother. It's a documentary about Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell and their terrible, terrible crimes.
00:01:01
Speaker
We talked last week with Katie and we're going to pick up kind of where we left off. um Talking about the kids being missing and all the weird stuff that Lori and Chad are getting into.
The Suspicious Marriage of Lori and Chad
00:01:15
Speaker
How we doing, Crystal? We're doing good. I'm excited for part two because I think this is a section where things get a little crazy. And that's saying something because all of part one was already crazy.
00:01:30
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, Laurie gets crazier and crazier. Yeah, we saw her start off as like a really good mom and then slowly watched her I don't want to say spiral because that's like my perspective of it, but evolve might be a better from each of her relationships, but also how she perceived her religion becoming stronger in her faith, finding her quote, true love, her twin flame, if you have one.
00:02:04
Speaker
Um, and watching Charles disappear and Chad really step in as her man. And I think we're right up to the point where they're getting married.
Where are Tylee and JJ?
00:02:20
Speaker
Which was 2019. Laurie and. Yes. November 5th, 2019, which is significant because Tammy died in October. um So pretty tight timeline on that.
00:02:34
Speaker
um So they got married in a very small service on a beach in Hawaii. And this is when Chad officially becomes husband number five for Lori.
00:02:46
Speaker
And this is, you know, this is the big love of her life. And yeah, they exchanged their wedding rings that they bought. prior to chad's wife's death and that's pretty much where we're at right now yeah and i just want to reiterate for being such strong mormons divorce is not typically we something we see and her going through four men beforehand i still think that's crazy yet she's telling everybody she's the best yeah and most religious one
00:03:23
Speaker
Well, to be fair, she did not get divorced from Charles. She had him murdered. That's
Colby's Growing Concerns
00:03:29
Speaker
true. Yes. does So does that count?
00:03:33
Speaker
um I did also do some searching and I can't find her anywhere on who she was sealed to or if she was sealed. So I don't I guess they don't really make that public. I'm also not in the church, so makes it kind of hard to find, I'm sure.
00:03:50
Speaker
But I did think that was interesting. Yeah.
00:03:55
Speaker
wonder if she even bothered with it with her first husband and then maybe wasn't eligible for the second or third and or fourth or fifth. And by the time she married Chad, she is fully fundamental. And I don't think that they're... I mean, they're not going to the temple.
00:04:12
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, Chad is... I also yeah I think Chad thought he could probably do that himself like he very easily probably could have sealed them from his perspective because he's also going around saying he was friends with Jesus so you know he probably just called his buddy Jesus and was like hey I'm gonna seal me and Lori together um yeah I mean that's a much higher authority really exactly
00:04:43
Speaker
I mean, who needs the temple? Plus, you can't get married on the beach in Hawaii if you want a temple ceiling. That would have to be a separate thing. And the photos that were in the documentary were beautiful, I will say.
00:04:56
Speaker
But Colby... All her wedding pictures are beautiful. Oh, absolutely. But
Police Involvement and Lori's Arrest
00:05:01
Speaker
Colby kind of zoned in on the fact that she was getting married in Hawaii because of the family history that they had.
00:05:09
Speaker
with Charles in Hawaii. So it is definitely an odd placement considering yeah the circumstance.
00:05:20
Speaker
I don't think... I think she just really liked Hawaii. And she would have gotten any of her husbands. And if if things had gone differently, husbands in six, seven, and eight would have also had to live in Hawaii with her.
00:05:33
Speaker
Probably. i think that was just much where she wanted to be. Yeah. I mean, I don't blame her so... but i'm either at this point so we'll go back to the documentary we have they're married Colby is off living his own life with his wife and his children um but Tylee and JJ were supposed to still be in Lori's custody and living with her and now Chad
00:06:10
Speaker
Because we remember that Charles is dead and also Tylee's dad is dead. So, which I do want to talk about at some point, Tylee's dad. And I have some theories and suspicions, but we can get to that at a later point.
00:06:22
Speaker
um But they don't have dads now. So Lori is their sole parent. And so she has full custody
Courtroom Behavior and Unraveling Claims
00:06:30
Speaker
of both of them. So they should always be in her care, but they are not in any of these wedding pictures.
00:06:38
Speaker
Right, which I see both angles because of how fixated she is on this relationship and also with the fact she wouldn't let Tylee go to Colby's wedding. Like, I could see how she would see the kids as not aesthetic to her budding romance and these beautiful pictures and all of that jazz that comes with that.
00:07:03
Speaker
Yeah. But it is odd on addition because you have Colby communicating with Tylee. You have the grandparents still very involved with JJ.
00:07:16
Speaker
So it's not like they had no family whatsoever. They just didn't have that second parent that would have that custody agreement with. Right. Right.
00:07:29
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And to be fair, Chad's kids are also not at the wedding, not involved, not invited, not pictured. And his kids were older, though too. Yeah, they're more like Colby's age. So they're off living their own lives.
00:07:43
Speaker
Not that it makes it any better, but still. Sure. Yeah. But we have Colby. It was an extremely small wedding. Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:54
Speaker
And one thing that the documentary touched on that I am very curious if he thought of this in the moment or if it was kind of like a retrospect thought is he was texting Tylee and apparently from his perspective, they didn't seem like they were her. They felt kind of...
Intensified Investigation and Doubts on Lori
00:08:15
Speaker
odd in her language or her response time or whatever the case was and that started to kind of rub him the wrong way because I guess historically Tyvee would answer him right away and they'd have talk all the time and then all a sudden in now she's not talking to him at all and he was like okay are you mad at me what's going on and then all a sudden just stopped altogether and then the phone was turned off So he couldn't communicate with her at all. Yeah, I mean, he couldn't get her to answer a phone call or call him back.
00:08:49
Speaker
And then her texts all of a sudden don't have emojis in them. There's not a lot of exclamation points. Like, it's a lot of... more I guess grammatically correct punctuation as well than a teenager is right a teenager in 2019 probably i mean that's not her style of texting according to him so he thought that was odd and he thought maybe it was because she was mad at him maybe he's not involved enough and she's or she's just so wrapped up in her own life and isn't giving him the time of day but he thought it was odd
00:09:26
Speaker
Yeah. And then I think JJ's parents also started noticing that lack of communication. Grandparents. Did I say? Yeah. Grandparents. um Because again, grandparents, they were super involved in his life and raised him for a short period, if I recall correctly.
00:09:43
Speaker
And it's just because of their age, wanted him to have the best life that he could. And all of a sudden, when you stop hearing from your grandkid, also very bizarre.
00:10:01
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And Lori could not really provide any kind of explanation about why they couldn't FaceTime with JJ, which they had previously been doing. So
Discovery of Children's Bodies
00:10:11
Speaker
and JJ's grandparents have involved the authorities at this point.
00:10:15
Speaker
And right after the wedding in Hawaii is when the heat really turned up on Lori and Chad and the media really came at started coming after them too.
00:10:26
Speaker
That's when reporters were shouting at them, Lori, where are the kids? Which I feel like is like a thing you think of with this case. And she does get arrested and Hawaii after failing to produce the kids and gets set a really high bail.
00:10:43
Speaker
You know, I wrote here $5 million dollars bail and a $1 million dollar bail. can't remember which one it actually was.
00:10:51
Speaker
ah oh five it was Oh, you know what It was ah initially set at $5 million, but then later lowered to $1 million after her extradition to Idaho. That's what it was.
00:11:02
Speaker
Yeah, because again, they went focusing on Hawaii. ah they i think from what I recall, they were given oh week. either but Either way, it had to be Thursday that she had to produce the children by court order signed by the judge.
00:11:20
Speaker
And Otherwise, she was going to be arrested. And for me, that was very surprising because a lot of the time you have to produce children, but felt very fast for some reason and obviously a very high bail considering the situation.
00:11:40
Speaker
Yes, missing kids are extremely time-sensitive cases. Unfortunately, those first couple hours and those first couple days are really important.
00:11:52
Speaker
But have $5 million dollar bail is wild
00:12:02
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, it kind of lets you know what the police and the prosecutors are thinking at that point. um Because bails like that are... They're not associated with kids just being missing and custodial issues like that. It's not a custody matter at that point. It's a suspicion of abuse, of homicide, of harm.
00:12:25
Speaker
And also, Lori is completely a flight risk. And... That's, I think, the concern as well. Yeah. They don't want her out.
00:12:37
Speaker
Yeah. I think also what... I don't know if we had mentioned it in the last episode or not. There was ah other work being done in other states. So when the law enforcement first went to Lori, she said that they were somewhere else.
00:12:56
Speaker
And she wasn't going to tell them or, oh, they're happy, they're safe, they're fine. and Specifically with JJ, she told law enforcement that he was with their her friend Melanie in Arizona.
00:13:11
Speaker
And then right when they went to Arizona, he obviously wasn't in Arizona. And it wasn't like Melanie was in cahoots either. i From what we watched in the documentary, she was like, why would you tell them that they were with me? Like, clearly they're not.
00:13:31
Speaker
Because that was my first thought. Melody's in the group. She's part of this little... i don't want to say cult, but like mini cult. think you could say cult.
00:13:43
Speaker
I was like, okay, she's in the group. And then we listened to her recording. I'm like, oh she's not in the group. She had no clue. ah So, again, there was wellness checks. There were searches.
00:13:55
Speaker
So it wasn't like it was, hey, produce the kids. They were $5 million. Yeah. But either way, it's a very high amount for someone who... I mean, I think she was well off, but I don't think she was, like, crazy rich.
00:14:11
Speaker
So it was an interesting number that they picked.
00:14:16
Speaker
i Yeah, i don't think she had... Anywhere near $5 million. dollars But i think they were worried between Chad's assets and all of the life insurance policies that she'd been trying to collect. um That she had money, that she had assets, and she had social security income. I think they were worried.
00:14:33
Speaker
I don't know if she had property in her name, but maybe that Chad would be willing to post if he could use his house as collateral. Like, if it was something like a million... If it was... five hundred thousand dollars two hundred thousand dollars maybe he could have come up with the collateral for it cause you don't actually pay the bail right you put up collateral usually or you put up 10 and yeah if it's five million ten percent is five hundred thousand dollars right or yeah most of the time no it's five hundred thousand yeah it's usually ten percent
00:15:07
Speaker
and But you have to show that you're good for it. Right. Like you can't just be like, here's some of it. And then not have any way to pay the full thing. Because if she doesn't show up to court, you are now responsible for the remaining amount of money. Yeah. And they'll seize your assets.
00:15:21
Speaker
Yeah. For sure. But I think that's why it was so, so high. Yeah. But she and again, every time asked, they're fine. They're good. They're like, they're OK. They're safe. Like she just kept repeating these things over and over and over every time anybody asked her about it, which now looking at what happened is.
00:15:45
Speaker
I still can't understand why that was her response. But either way.
00:15:52
Speaker
Right. And at this time, her mom and her sister are on TV defending her. doing Yeah. Saying that there's some sort of misunderstanding going on, basically.
00:16:06
Speaker
And also when she went into court, first of all, the makeup was terrible. I don't know why I zoned in on her lipstick, but she looked like a crazy clown. It was bad.
00:16:18
Speaker
And she was smiling. I and she could do her makeup before. yeah she looked beautiful before. What happened? But she went into court. think it's the psychosis. Maybe.
00:16:30
Speaker
Like, in regards to her two missing children ah smiling. like happy to be there, had no concerns, no issue. 90% of people who go into court, 90 is a guess. It's not anything accurate.
00:16:45
Speaker
But when you walk into a courthouse and people are charged with these crazy crimes, they don't typically look happy.
00:16:56
Speaker
Usually not. Yeah. But I think she, at that point, was still very confident in all the decisions that she'd made up till that point and and yeah thought that this was going to be cleared up quickly basically yeah and then i also have a note here when during this hearing this is the one that colby went to correct
Family Defense and Continued Investigation
00:17:18
Speaker
I think so. Because i have a note here of Colby seeing Chad in the courtroom and I guess Chad once he saw Colby kind of cowarded like wouldn't make eye contact with him would stay on a different part of the room and I i thought it was interesting he mentioned that because we see that a lot with charismatic leaders and people who believe they have this power and control like like David, um what's his last name, with Scientology.
00:17:52
Speaker
Or we have, um I'm drawing blanks on all their names. NXIVM, Scientology. Well, like charismatic sociopath.
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah. The minute anybody challenges them. L. Ron Hubbard. Yes. Thank you. ah You get challenged either physically or intellectually. They instantly will be like, ooh, nope. You actually could maybe challenge me. And they'll cower to that person.
00:18:19
Speaker
but tell everybody else, oh, no, I stepped away because it's the bigger man, that kind of deal.
00:18:27
Speaker
And he did Chad did the same thing. He saw a man that was going to confront him, so he was like, nope, going to avoid that, and then, like, scurried away into the darkness.
00:18:40
Speaker
Yeah. I think that he... people like Chad can only flourish where they're being praised and where their bullshit is being swallowed. And in the cold, hard light of day, when you have to actually look at people who are suspicious of you, that have a lot of credible reasons to be very, very concerned or hate you, i think that that's, he knows that there's no way he can charm his way out of that situation. So it's like, I just can't even deal with the confrontation.
00:19:11
Speaker
It's a coward. Yeah. oh hundred percent
00:19:15
Speaker
Oh, 100%. we have Lori's sister and mom defending her on national television saying she's completely innocent in the whole ordeal. And then the investigation is starting. So they're backtracking. So they're finding dates of like 100% confirmation where the kids are and that they're alive.
00:19:33
Speaker
The first one I have written down is September 8th of 2019 when all everyone was in Yellowstone. And yeah that was in her iCloud. Yep.
00:19:44
Speaker
And then moving to September 9th, there was a GPS location in the backyard of Chad's house. And that was the next yeah so kind of point that they had.
00:20:00
Speaker
So Alex's phone... um was traced to Chad's backyard. They were able to get the GPS signal from his phone, and he spent a lot of time in the backyard that day.
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah, he was back there for about two and a half hours. And he doesn't... Chad's not living in this, like...
00:20:21
Speaker
pool luxury like it's not somewhere you're gonna spending two and a half yard hours in the backyard kind of in the corner of the property for no reason right and it's also it's also the same day that those texts about the raccoon that chad had to kill and bury in the yard it's the same day that he was texting his wife about that mm-hmm that the phone activity anyway Yep.
00:20:47
Speaker
So we get to June 9th of 2020. There was a multi-agency jurisdiction kind of teamwork effort. from You had local agencies, county, federal,
Beliefs and Manipulations of Lori and Chad
00:21:02
Speaker
canines all showed up at Chad's home and started searching.
00:21:10
Speaker
And Chad tried to leave. Yeah. Like, he thought he was so sneaky that he was just going to get in his car and drive away.
00:21:20
Speaker
i know. I mean, and then Chad is also calling Lori saying, they're at the house.
00:21:30
Speaker
While she's in jail. as if they're not recording those calls. You're watching me. feel like they didn't think about that at all. No. And he then mentions... She's like, are they doing anything to you?
00:21:44
Speaker
Right. She's not even concerned. But again, you got to remember, they are the divine king of queen of the Church of the First Reborn. So they're above everyone who's there.
00:21:58
Speaker
That's true. I keep forgetting about that. Yeah. Yeah. So at this point, they were searching the property and they find the, quote, pet cemetery, as Chad calls it.
00:22:15
Speaker
And in that cemetery were human remains.
00:22:22
Speaker
Right. yeah So both human remains are found. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, both children, shallow graves on the property. um Partially burned. okay And it's the disregard human life. And again it it's the disregard of human life and It brings back to their belief that they had become zombies. They were dark spirits.
00:22:54
Speaker
In order to free them and free the spirit that they originally were, you had to kill the body. and it kind of brings us back to that list that chad had made about the lights and the darks and on that list tylee the daughter was listed as a 4.1 d which is dark
00:23:21
Speaker
i think it was a six point scale in both directions right it is a six point scale yeah so that's pretty bad pretty dark
00:23:33
Speaker
Yep. And then so obviously Lori was confronted on it and i like had a moment of rage when I heard this. She literally responded with, yeah, I miss them too.
00:23:46
Speaker
What?
00:23:49
Speaker
you You're the one, you're the reason they're dead and you're going to sit there and say you miss them?
00:23:56
Speaker
Ma'am. Well, she misses them before they became zombies is what she means. Yes. Yes.
00:24:04
Speaker
yeah and yeah it so it
00:24:10
Speaker
i I'm trying to think with the dates too because ah it is interesting that There was no point, and I may have missed it, so tell me if you caught it, and on a point where you can go from dark to light. you can't You can go from light to dark, but there's no possible way to go from dark to light. and The path was unclear to me anyway.
00:24:34
Speaker
didn't really understand how you changed. I think it was just Chad's opinion. Right, because he was constantly updating this list and sending it out. And even Lori, his divine queen of the firstborn, was only 4.3 light.
00:24:51
Speaker
Chad was a 6 light because he's perfect. But how is your queen not at least 5? Yeah.
00:25:01
Speaker
Well, you can't gas her up too much. He wants her to still be trying to achieve something. Well, that's why you put her on, right? Like you, cause is there no five? Like that would be my question. I'd be like, hold on. If I'm the queen, you're telling me there's no one above a 4.3. Only Chad.
00:25:18
Speaker
Only Chad. only yeah
00:25:24
Speaker
And i think another important thing that I've noticed is in his version, the world was going to end on July 22nd, 2020. Granted, the world kind of did end in 2020 for a little while.
00:25:39
Speaker
but a little bit, yeah. It is interesting that that was the date that they picked. I don't know why. i couldn't find any reasoning for that one either. But July 2020. Yeah.
Zombies, Religion, and Manipulation
00:25:51
Speaker
I'm not really sure. Maybe it's like the Mayan calendar or something. I think he just like picked something random. hu But that's also why they didn't really try that hard to cover this stuff up because they didn't really think they'd be accountable very long.
00:26:07
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, they didn't think they did anything wrong in the first place, I guess. I mean, I actually don't know if I believe that. I think Chad knew the whole time that this was bad. Yeah. That they were doing something wrong.
00:26:19
Speaker
I think he is. i think he wasn't. I think Lori definitely had some kind of mind control belief happening. I think Chad was fully aware.
00:26:32
Speaker
Because she kept referring to. And I'm not saying he's not ill. Oh, 100%. He's nuts. But he's not, he wouldn't be incompetent.
00:26:43
Speaker
Yes. You know what I mean? Like he fully knows. Yes. Because when you ask him those kind of questions, he just is like, he redirects versus when you ask Lori questions on why she's doing things, she will quote Bible verses.
00:26:59
Speaker
Like when she was talking about killing her children, she referred to Abraham and Isaac. And that's how they had to prove the loyalty to God is by killing his son.
00:27:12
Speaker
She just forgot the part in that story that God then tells you to stop and not actually kill your child.
00:27:21
Speaker
you You followed through. Right. that part is missing. Right. But I think that kind of supports your point of the the motivation for it. I think Chad has a lot of power, control, wanting that dynamic. And I think Lori has this need to be the perfect...
00:27:44
Speaker
religious icon and everything's supported with bible verses we're gonna see it as we continue to talk about like her trials and stuff she's constantly quoting things like that it's not making excuses it's justification through through god
00:28:03
Speaker
yeah no definitely completely justified And it's all very deranged. So they found ah ton of evidence, essentially. There's cell phone evidence.
00:28:17
Speaker
There's people testifying about... um So Melanie Gibbs testifies. David Warwick testifies about all of the unhinged things that Lori and Chad are saying and doing.
00:28:31
Speaker
David's talking about JJ's zombie behavior, how Lori said that he was climbing up on cabinets or something, and that makes him a zombie. There's all of these. There's a lot of testifying against them, but the kids also were not seen for 10 months, which is what they're what they're realizing, 10 months.
00:28:51
Speaker
And there is no evidence of the kids being alive for nine months of that. So... they essentially were dead the entire time that anyone was looking for them and buried in Chad's yard.
00:29:06
Speaker
And it's all, all very upsetting. And they talk about poor JJ and his red pajamas and the last picture of him. He's wearing the the red pajamas.
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah. the
Speculations on Other Victims
00:29:25
Speaker
The lead up for it is all really sad. And I think,
00:29:30
Speaker
We're going to touch on this the actual court cases through the documentary and the more recent ones in a separate section because we're going to get too tangentized on that.
00:29:42
Speaker
but Oh, definitely. One thing I did think was interesting, the kind of leading up to the court side of things, Chad called their friend Melanie, this poor woman, right?
00:29:54
Speaker
had no idea who she was friends with i don't think and basically tried to convince her to lie to the police and the courts and support their version of events and spoiler alert she did not but the idea that he thought that he could do that and convince this woman to potentially risk her own freedom for him just really shows how bold he is.
00:30:29
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. i I think that he really bought a lot of his own bullshit by the end and he thought that he'd be able to smooth things out, but didn't quite work out that way.
00:30:43
Speaker
It's pretty much where the documentary leaves off. I mean, they're talking about Lori's competency a little bit, but then we really get into the trials, which isn't heavily covered in the documentary. And we are going to do a separate episode about that, about the updates.
00:30:58
Speaker
Yeah. I think, again, my last one leading up to it, because her poor son, Colby, who had to live this and has to deal live with this for the rest of his life, called his mom and Basically trying to, I don't want to say understand, but that kind of what was what it was. He just was so baffled, I think, that the idea that this loving, caring mother that he had had changed so drastically.
00:31:34
Speaker
And during that conversation, again, with her religious tying it in, she basically was like, I'm full gaslight. I'm sorry you feel the way that you do.
00:31:46
Speaker
You are influenced by the dark. Joseph Smith's friends also turned on him, referring herself. and and yeah again that is true that superiority of comparing he yourself to joseph smith head of mormonism or founder of mormonism you have to truly have this belief that you are above and it's because of the darkness in your son that he couldn't believe you you murdering your other child was a bad thing
00:32:26
Speaker
yeah so it's just like so dark oh it's awful but so what were your theories with tylee's biological father so i just thought it was very suspicious the circumstances of his death and i read one article saying that when he was found like so there's a couple of different things but basically They were not getting along. They were having a custody dispute. And then Joe Ryan mysteriously passes away.
00:33:04
Speaker
no one finds him for weeks. So a lot of any kind of potential evidence is not going to be able to be collected. And when he is found, the person notified his next of kin is Lori. And she proceeds to tell no one until she's already collected his life insurance and he's been cremated.
00:33:24
Speaker
And i thought that was very, very odd. And I think that he potentially is another victim of Lori's. She has not been charged by for that, but I think it's very suspicious.
00:33:37
Speaker
I also think it's suspicious that her brother... seems to have a lot of the similar symptoms of Chad's wife in death where they were, you know, foaming pink foam at the mouth and they have these very sudden unexplained deaths of otherwise healthy people. And I just think that this, I think Lori and Chad serial killers and they were systematically wiping everybody out in their lives. Like
Financial Motives Behind the Murders
00:34:04
Speaker
I think Lori started it and presented it as an awesome solution to getting rid of these very inconvenient people that they could also profit off of so that's basically my theory is that joe is another murder victim in this case and i don't know if i mean i believe colby that he was abused by joe and so i'm not mourning his loss and i think probably good riddance and we're all better off but i still think that
00:34:32
Speaker
it's pretty terrible to kill someone and profit off of it and not even inform their siblings or family of what's going on. That's basically it.
00:34:47
Speaker
Yeah, I could see that because let's see, Brian died in 2018, which is roughly the same time that Lori met Chad because she met him and like late 2018. don't know when in 2018, Brian died. April 2018.
00:35:03
Speaker
just looked it
00:35:05
Speaker
ryan die april twenty eighteen i just looked it up So he died in April 2018, and most things reference Lori and Chad meeting at a religious conference in October of 2018. However,
00:35:23
Speaker
it would not shock me if they had passings prior to that. Because a otherwise, it would then...
00:35:38
Speaker
Because I'm looking at it right now that Chad kind of was a mastermind and Lori was like the executor of like, he's like hey, I want to kill them. How do we do it?
00:35:49
Speaker
This is my thought process. And she goes, that's a great idea. Let me take care of that for you. And then like made it happen. That's kind of how i interpret it. But if with your theory, definitely it your theory, she is has this plan already done, figured out how to do with Ryan, Mr. Ryan.
00:36:15
Speaker
Then she would be a lot more involved where Chad's were like, I hate these people and I want to get rid of them. And she was like, hold on. i have a plan. It's worked once. Why would it work again?
00:36:26
Speaker
So that would make them more of ah partnership then a leader follower kind of dynamic. so that's an interesting take on it.
00:36:39
Speaker
So I... I go back and forth a little bit with Lori and how I feel about her competency and culpability. i think that she, she's not, it's not that she doesn't understand is the difference between right and wrong or that she has any, it's not like she's schizophrenic or bipolar. I don't think those are what it is. I think she is just truly, truly,
00:37:08
Speaker
delusional about her religion and she can use it to justify her terrible behavior and then when she does that she has to double down and double down and double down because otherwise she's just a terrible person and she can't possibly accept that so I think that i think that Chad reinforces all the things that she wishes were true And they feed off each other like he really wants someone to believe everything that he's saying and she really wants to believe what he's saying.
00:37:42
Speaker
So I think that they are terrible match, but also kind of a perfect match. And yeah, that's why they're so dangerous and why this caused so much death and destruction, because if you can use God, religion, you know, a greater purpose to justify murder and mayhem and all of this carnage, then there's really, there's nothing stopping them.
00:38:09
Speaker
Yeah. There clearly was no limit to what they were willing to do.
00:38:14
Speaker
I would be curious what the plan from there was You know, because they got rid of all of the darks that they had made known.
00:38:28
Speaker
Like, he had a list, but, like, most of the lists that we're aware of are people who died. Because it kind of seems, and this is just the outside perspective of what we know, that as he people came into their life, that's when he would rank them or, like, change their rank or zombify them.
00:38:49
Speaker
Now that all the quote, darks are dead, now what?
00:38:56
Speaker
So that's, I think, the scariest part, because I think there would have been more and more and more darks hitting that list. I think people would have lost their status in Chad and Lori's eyes and become inconvenient. And I really think that anybody they could have justified taking a life insurance policy out against, like Colby, like Chad's kids, like Lori's parents, have like Lori's other brothers.
00:39:22
Speaker
i mean, you can take out a life insurance policy on people who are not your spouses and collect on them. Like if I wanted to insure a friend of mine, I'll get life insurance on them. I can, but I'd have to have their permission to do that.
00:39:39
Speaker
And then if they mysteriously die three months later, it's going to look pretty weird that I had that. But getting life
Relationship Dynamics and Cult Influence
00:39:46
Speaker
insurance against your own parents or against your kid or whatever like it's not that uncommon.
00:39:51
Speaker
And that's who I think would have been. Also, anybody that got in their way or challenged them or questioned their relationship, questioned any of the decisions they made before. People who were too outspoken about the kids being missing.
00:40:05
Speaker
I also think we're going to be pretty dark on their list pretty quick. And we're also potentially in harm's way. Ooh, that reminds me of Angel's Landing.
00:40:17
Speaker
Maybe we'll have to do that. That's a little off brand for us. Angel's Landing is Lou Castro, who pretty much did that exact thing. He took out um life insurance policies on his followers, and then his followers would happened to die by suicide very conveniently and he would collect all the life insurance policies every three years one of his followers would die he'd have millions of dollars so that's actually yeah something that people have done we have a ton of information on him i that is a good thought that Chad that could have been step two as he built his following in their the church of the firstborn yeah
00:41:04
Speaker
One by one, every once a while, someone who happens to zombify would die and they'd have millions of dollars. Ooh, I like that.
00:41:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think that it would be crazy to think that these are not financially motivated crimes in a lot of ways. I think that they are. and But i don't think i don't think exclusively if financially motivated.
00:41:24
Speaker
she like As far as we know, didn't have life insurance on Tylee and JJ and didn't make money off of their deaths. But I think that
00:41:34
Speaker
If she could have, she would have. Yeah, probably. That wouldn't shock me. Well, okay. Before we get into the court cases, because there's Lori's original case, there's Chad's original case, and then were there was a more recent case that has been 2025. So we kind of have three to come over next time.
00:42:05
Speaker
What are your final thoughts up until this point?
00:42:14
Speaker
just that people forming their own cults are very dangerous and should be viewed as potential criminals because i feel that i'm sure there are people who have good motivations for doing that but i think that it speaks to a type of a personality type that is very concerning and I think that this was predictable and possibly preventable and I think that's pretty sad of the whole thing um and it's sad to me that people can use their religion to justify so much awful stuff I think that's pretty much it how about you
00:42:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think my final thought is I'm still currently, as of this recording, and it might change for the next one, I'm still under the idea that Chad is the mastermind and Lori is the executor, where he has this divine plan with his best friend Jesus that he has created.
00:43:18
Speaker
And Lori... who speaks to angels, is going to execute the plans for him to build the kingdom. And in that, I think she got brainwashed into believing the chaos that he was preaching, where your children are no longer important, and only he is important.
00:43:44
Speaker
And that idea still blows my mind a little bit because of the drastic shift that we saw with her. It makes me really sad to, which we've talked about so many times, know that there are people capable of doing that.
00:44:01
Speaker
Like i fully believe Chad knew he was doing that to her because very conveniently none of his kids died.
00:44:10
Speaker
right that is true only her kids only her family like no one that was important to him right but i don't think he really ever cared about her i think it was the mormon you get married you stay married you can't leave kind of relationship and it's just very convenient that no one that's important to him was a dark
00:44:36
Speaker
So i think he he was the full mastermind. And it's scary that people like that are out there. And unfortunately, nobody joins a cult, join a good thing.
00:44:50
Speaker
And this is a prime example of what people are capable of, even if you think you're a good person.
00:45:01
Speaker
do you Do you kind of think maybe though that Lori just wanted to justify cheating on her husband and wanting to get rid of him? I think... Maybe this was convenient. I think that helped it maybe a little, but I really think she she'd believed what she was saying.
00:45:18
Speaker
Because
Reflection on Culpability and Influence
00:45:19
Speaker
look at the first three. like she and Assuming she didn't murder bri Joe. um Well, but she did leave him. like It was one of those, she clearly wasn't afraid to leave any of them.
00:45:36
Speaker
That's true. She would leave him in. okay maybe i'm back don't know i go back and forth i'd really do i see i see the other side i i definitely do yeah i totally think they're both cul like they're both responsible for their actions there's no question there i just for some reason i don't see chad willing to be a partner he if he gives me like
00:46:03
Speaker
just ego controlling narcissist. So i don't know. I just don't see how he would see Lori as an equal. Look at the numbers. He was a perfect six and she was a 4.3.
00:46:19
Speaker
Like that's not partnership. I don't think i think Chad nine sees himself as I think Chad sees himself as the mastermind. Yeah. But I just don't think Lori as is as clueless as.
00:46:31
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Maybe she wants to be clueless, but I don't think that she actually is. Oh, yeah. No, I think I'd agree with that still. Like, I think she justifies a lot.
00:46:43
Speaker
I think she knows what she's doing, but I think she believes what she's doing, if that makes sense. Like, I think she knows murder is wrong, but she's doing it for a greater good, so then it's okay.
00:46:58
Speaker
Like, I think that's the justification part of it.
00:47:02
Speaker
Right. Because you wouldn't kill a light. That would be terrible.
00:47:07
Speaker
No, we have to we have to decide they're bad, and then that's fine. Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:14
Speaker
I mean, that's pretty short you it's a pretty short bridge, honestly. It's a short pier. You know, it's a long walk off a short pier. and they But that's what I'm saying. That's why they're so dangerous together. Because they just fed into each other's grandiosity and fantasies and terrible things that they wanted to do.
00:47:36
Speaker
yeah I don't think they're victims in this. Like, Lori's not a victim. And Chad's certainly not a victim. Oh, yeah. and I don't think the only victims here are the people that are no longer with us and the babies and the poor kiddos.
00:47:49
Speaker
Yeah. Those kids are the ultimate victims. Literally had no chance. And that is terribly, terribly heartbreaking. And I feel bad for everybody left behind as well, sorting this out.
00:48:02
Speaker
Even Chad's kids, who I think are still defending him. We'd have to find out if they still are. I think so. Yeah. I do feel really bad for them because I wouldn't want to believe any of this either.
00:48:16
Speaker
Yeah. We'll look into that for next time. and Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, until next week. Until next All right. Talk to you soon.
00:48:28
Speaker
Have a good one. Bye.