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Martha Stewart
196 Plays6 months ago
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May contain explicit language and unfounded accusations.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Mothers of All Crime'
00:00:20
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Mothers of All Crime. This is a podcast where we deep dive into mothers involved in infamous crimes and scandals. I'm Monica and this is Crystal.
00:00:50
Speaker
Welcome back to the Mothers of All Crime.
Martha Stewart Documentary Review
00:00:53
Speaker
This week we're going to be talking about Martha Stewart. i So we watched Martha, a documentary on Netflix, which I personally thought they did really well.
00:01:05
Speaker
And they involved Martha both with interviews and they pulled in some tapes with other stuff. And they kind of painted a picture of her entire life, which I liked. It wasn't just this polished, perfect version of her. It was the good, the bad, kind of a mixture of both. I thought they did a really nice job.
00:01:28
Speaker
Absolutely. I feel like I learned things. I felt things. It was a good documentary. Yeah. It does reinforce the fact that I do love her. And i do too. Towards the end, we're going to get into her relationship with Snoop Dogg. But that is probably one of my favorite celebrity friendships of all time.
00:01:46
Speaker
So I'm excited to talk about her today.
00:01:52
Speaker
Me too. I'm excited to talk about the documentary. I thought it was really interesting. um and I feel like, you know, with Martha Stewart, what you think of is someone who is so aspirational, like so above what most people could be and most people could achieve, but she is also so relatable and very real.
00:02:14
Speaker
And so I just, I thought it was very interesting. Yeah, absolutely.
Martha's Early Life and Family Dynamics
00:02:19
Speaker
So kind of the documentary started from her early life where she was kind of just like everybody else, right? She was born into a family of six children. She was from New Jersey, New York area. Jersey girl. Yeah. And like really just hardworking. Her family grew up.
00:02:40
Speaker
I would kind of describe it lower middle class from what I was researching in addition to the documentary. And early on, she got recruited to be a model. And most of her checks, she was just giving back to her mom to help take care of all of these other children and her family, which isn't...
00:03:00
Speaker
always the case, right? Like a lot of people I feel all of a sudden their career starts to take off. They start to think about themselves. And early on, she was very focused on making sure her family was still taken care of, which granted she was, ah I think she was a minor still at the time. So she, they were in charge of it anyway, but it was interesting how that was one of the first things that she remembered talking about that time period. and Yeah. And i I did not realize, like, her when she was talking about her dad in the beginning, she was saying that he was a perfectionist, that he's, like, so handsome, that, like, she's very similar to him, that she was always his favorite. And so I was kind of gearing up to hear about how great her dad was.
00:03:46
Speaker
But it sounds like he also was an alcoholic that couldn't hold a job that was pretty abusive. yeah so it's kind of interesting to hear from a golden child in this situation who probably received less of the abuse because she was the favorite.
00:04:03
Speaker
And I wish her siblings were more involved in this documentary um because I'm just sure that that would be like the differences in the way that they viewed things. But also Martha became a breadwinner in the home. So her role, you know, it became even more significant at that point. and um How do the other siblings compete with that?
Education and Early Career
00:04:26
Speaker
Yeah. You know, no and we least solely from the documentary, a lot about her siblings. ah And it would be curious what their relationship is like, both then and now, from being the the favorite, from her words, but also someone who...
00:04:45
Speaker
really embodied a lot of those same characteristics that her father had. And throughout her career, she really got this image of being perfect or trying to be perfect.
00:04:58
Speaker
And it shows that connection, right? Where that came from, where the like anal detention to detail originated.
00:05:09
Speaker
Yeah, i I think so, too. I just think it's very interesting that she developed her love of gardening as a result of her father gardening so much because they couldn't really afford food.
00:05:22
Speaker
Like, it's just such an extreme, like, her version of gardening now and over the last 30, 40 years has just been so different than that gardening for survival. Right. But it seems like where it all started.
00:05:35
Speaker
What a couple million dollars will do. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, she's whole bunch of money. Yeah. But Martha was always very, very intelligent. Also a genius in some ways.
00:05:50
Speaker
And she got a full scholarship to college in New York. She's very popular there, as she did not mind telling us. Yeah, that's true. um So I actually did a little side research for schooling.
00:06:04
Speaker
She mentions Bernard College, which is part of Columbia. And I thought that was kind of interesting that she didn't just straight out say Columbia University. But she first majored in chemistry, then she did art history, and then she went to architectural history,
00:06:20
Speaker
Which feels like a very wide spectrum. The only one that didn't surprise me is the art history one.
00:06:29
Speaker
Yeah. I think that she was so smart that she could do anything and then had to kind of hone in on what she was actually interested in versus what she would just excel at, which I think would probably be everything.
00:06:45
Speaker
Right. Yeah, I mean, from her life, that's kind of how ended up. Well, all but one category. Yeah.
Marriage and Culinary Passion
00:06:54
Speaker
ah And speaking of said category, ah she met her first husband or technically her only husband, Andy Stewart, through a friend on a blind date when she was 19 and And through his sister, she saw, yeah, she saw Martha. His sister saw Martha on campus and was like, you are so beautiful. do you want to go out with my brother?
00:07:19
Speaker
oh I interpreted that as like they were friends and she set them up. Oh, interesting. Just some strange. Can you imagine some stranger just walking up to you and then agreeing to it?
00:07:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:33
Speaker
Yeah, definitely not. But I guess it kind of worked out in this case because they very quickly developed a big romance. Andy pro proposed and Martha's father had a very bad reaction to that, which he kind of tells in like a sing song kind of way. But she said that he was a bigot and he was not happy with Andy being Jewish.
00:07:55
Speaker
And Martha being Martha was like, i don't care. I'm marrying him anyway, which you got to love that. Yeah. And you know he was in a law school, so it wasn't like he was not doing well for himself or going to do well for himself.
00:08:10
Speaker
But they he also came from money, right? And they took a five-month honeymoon through Europe. Yeah. At 19. Amazing.
00:08:21
Speaker
Which is hard for me to even wrap my brain around. But I think from what I took from the documentary, this really sparked her love and fascination for food and how beautiful it could be.
00:08:37
Speaker
Because one thing Europe does really well is truly enjoying mealtime, right? It's an ordeal. It's not just sit, eat, and go, which a lot of Americans experience.
00:08:50
Speaker
So being in immersed in that for five months is is really extraordinary and I think foreshadows a lot of her future actions. Yeah. Definitely.
Motherhood and Career Ambitions
00:09:02
Speaker
And I think it was also just the exposure to different food, different art, different wine, different olive oils.
00:09:09
Speaker
Like at the time, you couldn't just go to Whole Foods and get the best of Europe cuisine. You know, the food was very, it was different. She'd never experienced food like that before. so I think it...
00:09:21
Speaker
opened her eyes to a world of new possibilities and yeah I think she was definitely inspired by the art definitely inspired by the food and it sounds like an amazing trip she didn't have one weird story though which I didn't really know what to think about yeah but the one night you know what I'm talking about
00:09:44
Speaker
She went to church without Andy the one night and it was just so beautiful and so romantic of a setting that she ended up kissing a stranger. In church. and In the church. Yeah. and i felt like the producers were kind of ribbing her about it a bit and she was like, oh, come on.
00:10:05
Speaker
Not a big deal. yeah it was an emotional moment it wasn't infidelity yeah right she something about it was an emotional moment it wasn't infidelity which yeah i mean well to each his own i wouldn't be a big fan of that if on my honeymoon my partner was kissing people in public uh kissing people in general i really should say on a game but our honeymoon on oh It's fine if he does it in private. Yeah, right. It's different.
00:10:38
Speaker
ah oh But if I think the reason that they kind of harped on it is because as we talk about this documentary, there are a lot of she lived She's so successful. She was great at pretty much everything she did.
00:10:53
Speaker
But her love life continuously was her point of unperfection. And i think that's kind of why they kind of zoned in on that where something wasn't perfect.
00:11:05
Speaker
And it goes both ways, right? Yeah, definitely. Well, I think Martha said herself that she struggled. I don't know if she said she struggled, but that she is not affectionate and that she doesn't really care what men feel or what they think, which for sure.
00:11:25
Speaker
But I also think they made a real point in highlighting that motherhood was a struggle for her. And that kind of is in the same way of it's like a woman is supposed to have ah marriage that defines her and being a mother is something that defines you. And I don't think those things really define Martha.
00:11:44
Speaker
And she's not able to stay in those boxes. Not that they're bad boxes, but I just don't think it worked for her. And I think if she was born at a different time, she probably wouldn't have gotten married or had a baby.
00:11:56
Speaker
But that was just sort of the expectation. Yeah, I definitely don't think she would have had a baby. I think she literally said, i had a baby because it's what you do.
00:12:08
Speaker
Like, that's just what you people did. And ah for someone who, she kind of kept getting described or hinted towards of like being a man or and having manly traits.
00:12:21
Speaker
And I think this is something that a lot of women in higher positions or authority or who strive for certain levels of achievement outside of the home you get this reputation of it's okay if a man does it but not a woman and she really was ahead of that time where she didn't care about your emotions she cared about your actions what do you want to do with your life show me what you want like work for something not just oh i care about you i i think you're beautiful
00:12:53
Speaker
I think she had enough confidence in herself where she's like, I know I'm beautiful. what are you going to do about it? why She didn't need that validation that sometimes yeah people need.
00:13:08
Speaker
Right. I think that she needs validation in other ways, but it doesn't come from motherhood and it doesn't come from marriage in the way that maybe it would typically, especially at the time. And I think if you're not affectionate and you weren't shown affection as a child, it can be really hard to convert that into I'm now a loving mother when previously she'd been 20 year old with no responsibilities. It's it's a big change and it's not easy for anyone. And it's very glamorized, very romanticized.
00:13:42
Speaker
And I think it didn't meet her expectations, which was a bummer for Alexis. But yeah, they did say that they never were like, she's a bad mom. I think she just wasn't like the doughty touchy feely kind of mom.
00:13:58
Speaker
Um, It definitely seemed like she raised her daughter very well, but she probably just raised her differently than that of a lot of the other moms in the time. um Because she
Rise as a Media Influencer
00:14:10
Speaker
really wanted a career and there was no secret about that.
00:14:14
Speaker
And her husband and hers relationship was rocky from if you count Italy, ah then it was pretty much from the beginning.
00:14:26
Speaker
But she definitely kept bringing up the fact that her husband had multiple affairs, had multiple girlfriends over their wedding, their wedding, their relationship.
00:14:37
Speaker
Yet the producers did bring up that she did have, quote, one affair. But Martha was like, no, it was just an Irish man. It was nothing like she was so casual about it. But like her husband did it. It was this awful thing.
00:14:51
Speaker
Well, I do think that Martha has a lot of double standards, like things that she does. That's totally OK. That's totally justifiable. And things that other people do to her in a negative way. I mean, you can't deal with that. and She like said, if your husband and cheats on you, he's a piece of shit and you should leave him.
00:15:13
Speaker
And the producers were like, but Andy said you cheated on him first. And they were, she was like, come grow up. like She was just like, it wasn't that big of a deal, but him doing it, it was a huge deal. Yeah.
00:15:27
Speaker
So she became like a stock market, stock market broker for a while and was making a ton of money. Yeah. She was one of the first women. Markets crashed. One of the first women down there, which. Yeah. ah is monumental. Really.
00:15:41
Speaker
Like. you are There was no women's bathroom. Yeah. First women in the industry. And yeah making, i did the conversion.
00:15:53
Speaker
At the time, it was $250,000 a year, which today $2.3 million a year. Woof.
00:16:01
Speaker
wo That a lot of cheddar. But she couldn't handle the ups and downs. She's not patient, which we'll get to later for sure.
00:16:12
Speaker
um The volatility of the market, she did not like that. she kind of bailed on being a stock market broker, even though she was extremely successful at it. And that's when they bought their dream home in Westport.
00:16:26
Speaker
She started doing a lot of hosting and catering. And that's when she kind of It seems like she started to become like the homemaker version of Martha Stewart. Yeah. Obviously still a business minded woman doing the catering stuff, which was very, very expensive, like very successful as well.
00:16:44
Speaker
And she really showed perfectionism and everything that she did. And started getting approached about doing cookbooks, had her own ideas for that as well.
00:16:56
Speaker
And I just, I love how she thought out of the box and she did new things and she was like the first influencer basically. Yeah, she was... One of the, you're right. She was like the original influencer before everyone was trying to do it.
00:17:10
Speaker
She was the first person to like, without naming it, make charcuterie boards, which we're now all obsessed with. Looking back at these photos and stuff she posted, that's what she was doing. She was building charcuterie tables and just making things beautifully and aesthetic for these parties and businesses and home parties.
00:17:31
Speaker
And You think about it today, we're like, oh yeah, we'll just like make one. But back then it was... like brand new so she's just so ahead of her time and very creative and by approaching this she started like you said writing those books getting it her name out there and then she started doing brand deals again what a lot of them influencers now do and she got into and the home decor world
00:18:06
Speaker
and weddings she was doing the wedding books like the magazines the books and she was doing that book tour for her martha stewart wedding books when her marriage with andy really started to fall apart and so she was literally going through a divorce while promoting the idea of a perfect wedding which had to be Such a tough mental thing to do.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah. Because they they asked her about it and she pretty much was like, listen, I'm not going to talk about it. I gave you all the letters. She's like, you can take information from there, which I do respect, right? So she was approached with this project. i have a documentary on her life and she knew that there were certain things she didn't want to talk about, but didn't take it off the table. She still gave producers information that they could refer to which i have a lot of respect for because she very easily could be like i don't have any letters or it was a very cordial thing like you know what i mean and these letters yeah she showed the letters are harsh yeah and it was harsh like but then it rate ranges right it shows pain it shows anger it shows jealousy
00:19:20
Speaker
it It kind of hit every aspect of the spectrum, which I think you mentioned is like, no wonder she's promoting a wedding version of her magazine or book or whatever the case was.
00:19:33
Speaker
Well, her marriage is falling apart after 27 twenty seven years
00:19:41
Speaker
And Andy literally was having an affair with someone that worked for her that she had allowed to move on to their property. So this was all hitting extremely close to home, hitting her businesses, which really hurt her.
00:19:56
Speaker
Hitting affecting her view of her own home after they spent so much time and money and effort redoing the whole house. And then you are sleeping with someone on my staff that I let move in here. Like,
00:20:12
Speaker
Just the betrayal across so many different levels. It's clearly he just had no respect for you. Yeah. And I don't know what their marriage was like intimacy wise or if they were really getting along or if this was just one in a string of a million. Like she kind of makes it seem.
00:20:30
Speaker
But i think for most people that would kind of be the limit. Although I think that she... She clearly really cared about Andy. I don't know if that was expressed a lot through the marriage, but I think that the betrayal obviously hurt and I think still probably hurts.
00:20:48
Speaker
Yeah. it was embarrassing. oh But i there, I think that's the nail on the head, right? She was embarrassed. Yeah. And she was very concerned about it being public and...
00:21:01
Speaker
Thankfully for
Business Strategies and Success
00:21:02
Speaker
her, I think at the moment there were so many other things going on that it kind of got brushed under the rug where a lot of people didn't zone in on it. And yeah, like it wasn't like she was partnering with magazine. She made her own magazine and she started a TV show and she was told like she should be going towards a more middle and upper class where she then went, hold on.
00:21:32
Speaker
Everyone deserves to make their home the best version of what they want it to be. doesn't matter how much money you have, which I think is her her childhood kicking in, right? Like, I didn't have this, but I wanted it And she went into Kmart, which if people don't know Kmart, I grew up near a Kmart and Kmart had some really good stuff.
00:21:55
Speaker
why And it was a deal. Yeah. And I loved about I remember there being Martha Stewart crafts at our Kmart and always wanting them. Yeah. Because they were really good quality stuff.
00:22:07
Speaker
And the thing is like, can I please get the scrapbook paper? but You still get that that quality at a lower price. And I like that she did that in addition to the other stuff. So because I remember growing up as a kid and granted she's a lot older than us, but like I still remember her products and I'm sure they're still out there. But like you could go to Kmart and you could go to like Bed Bath & Beyond. Two drastically different prices and you could find sometimes the exact same stuff.
00:22:37
Speaker
Which I really loved that she did because it brought her vision of educating people, regardless of your income, to live the way you want to live, which I love.
00:22:53
Speaker
She also had no problem telling people no.
00:22:56
Speaker
Yeah, which I also love. And I think that she was totally right. And the people that she was really marketing to were not these very, very wealthy people that she's rubbing elbows with that are having their parties catered. It's more appealing to people who are hosting their own parties that...
00:23:15
Speaker
want to decorate that want to have a nice tablescape that want to do a fancy thanksgiving want to have a luau in their backyard and yeah need aesthetic ideas this is before pinterest this is before instagram so these magazines had a lot of inspirational pictures and tips and recipes and everything with martha is if you follow my directions 100 and you do everything perfectly and you cut no corners it's going to be amazing right and And that's achievable for anybody. Yeah. Like if you follow directions, great. That's all you need. And she, again, was expanding on this idea of the perfect sweet housewife, how you could do it, how you could make everybody else happy and and do it all, right?
00:24:01
Speaker
you can She was trying to enable this of I work, but my house is perfect. My food is perfect. Like having this image. Right. Right. And this is when she got the house in the Hamptons and she started dating Charles, who is a billionaire.
00:24:19
Speaker
She started having TV shows. Yeah, I know. I feel like there's so much stuff with Charles that they didn't really get into in the documentary, but... I guess it's not that significant now.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah. But. and the grand scheme of things. Yeah. He's not as interesting as Martha. That's for sure. But. um Her company went public. Which was also a huge huge deal.
00:24:45
Speaker
And that's when she became. The wealthiest woman in the world. And the first self-made female billionaire in America. Which. Is a crazy accomplishment. Yeah.
00:24:55
Speaker
And like. When that – they made that statement. – and this is horrible. But my brain was like she she actually did it. She came from a family that literally had nothing, that was growing their own food and expensive to buy stuff.
00:25:12
Speaker
Right. Right. And then you have exactly a couple years ago, Kylie Jenner, love her, but on the poster, like, I'm a self-made billionaire whose parents are also millionaires.
00:25:28
Speaker
Not really as self-made. So i cant I don't know. I got a giggle out of that.
00:25:35
Speaker
Absolutely. I know. It's like you have a million famous people in your family. Being a billionaire, is it actually going to change your life at all? Right. And that's different. I think it was a different huge accomplishment for her, but I also don't think it was nearly as impressive as someone who came from yeah basically nothing, had zero support, made it on her own.
00:25:58
Speaker
And I just wanted to kind of put it in perspective, the kind of money that she was making in the 90s not even today absolutely that is a good point because being a billionaire in the 90s she said it herself she's like it actually meant something then right it still does but that is such a crazy rich person thing to say and i i do kind of love it i agree with you about the kylie stuff although i guess you could say kylie didn't really need to work she didn't really need to develop skills and use them yeah market things and
00:26:30
Speaker
Oh, I think Kylie is great, but it's just different. Right. And i I agree with you. It was a crazy rich person thing to say, but I also kind of get where she's coming from where making a million dollars in the nineties, I'm going to go down just a million, making a million dollars in the nineties,
00:26:50
Speaker
was a lot more far-fetched than making a million dollars today. Because if you're looking at, like, your average income, most people weren't even making $100K in the 90s.
00:27:02
Speaker
And they were supporting full families. yeah Nowadays, you need ah hundred kit like... Most people in New York City are making that. Like it's not just here and there. It's like a norm. And if you're making $30,000 a year today, you you're really struggling versus $30,000 in the 90s.
00:27:23
Speaker
you You were probably struggling, but probably not you probably could squeak by. So i think she kind of was trying to point out the fact of... Money was a lot harder to earn back then versus money now. Everything's just so expensive now, but it's also a lot easier to quote, have money.
00:27:46
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think that no one could take away what Martha achieved on her own. She did also marry extremely wealthy, which is a nice leg up for sure.
00:28:00
Speaker
But she put herself in a position to be able to do that by getting a ah college scholarship. Like it's, it all comes back to her work ethic and what she was willing to do and what she was willing to achieve. um Which also makes what comes next.
00:28:16
Speaker
more interesting i guess um but also i have a lot of thoughts i think we should just talk about what happened and then we could talk about what we think about it yeah i'd agree with that makes sense so you want to start with december 2001
00:28:35
Speaker
So you start and I'll i'll pick up.
Legal Issues and Conviction
00:28:38
Speaker
Yeah. So December 2001. December 2001. Basically, Martha, knowing that she's involved with her history of the start market, there's no surprise that she is investing in multiple places, multiple areas. She's got people assisting her and brokers doing some of her investing for her.
00:28:58
Speaker
um And one of the things she invested in was ImClone Systems or I-M-Clone or however you pronounce it. I thought it was ImClone. ImClone. But I'm sure.
00:29:11
Speaker
Let's go with that. I'll say it with confidence. That's what I thought. Okay. Biopharmaceutical company. And they were working on a cancer drug. However, she then sold 4,000 shares that she had with them, to which converted roughly – it was $45,000 at a time, about $82,000 for today's conversion.
00:29:35
Speaker
And she was suspected of doing that because she was given a tip that the market – those stocks were going to drop. Right. And the tip, right the purpose of that connection was she knew the higher ups in the company.
00:29:52
Speaker
Her broker also was getting rid of his. Like there were a lot of people at the same time getting rid of these stocks. and shares So they kind of zoned in and she ended up getting arrested for conspiracy, obstruction of justice, making false statements to the federal investigators.
00:30:14
Speaker
And she had a fraud originally charged, but that ended up getting dismissed and not actually going forward. and But it is important to note that they originally looked at her for insider trading, but never once was she charged with it. Never once was it put up against her.
00:30:34
Speaker
It was just the initial question mark.
00:30:38
Speaker
Right. And the timeline.
00:30:42
Speaker
It's a bit sus. um She's basically like on her way to Cabo. She's on vacation. She takes this call. Imclone did not get FDA approval.
00:30:53
Speaker
And so she's selling. And this was... People saw her take this call. You know, there's witnesses. Her friends who end up testifying later. and um I think it's... I actually thought that she'd been charged with insider trading prior to watching this documentary.
00:31:11
Speaker
i didn't realize that she was never charged with insider trading. I mean, that was what they wanted to get her on. But she really... got in trouble for lying to the FBI because she kept saying that she did not recall about things that she, I guess, did recall, which is hard to prove usually. Like, people don't usually get custodial sentences for that.
00:31:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the back and forth was she made some contradictory statements, which I think is why they doubled down on the lying aspect, where in one conversation she stated that she sold because it dropped below $60 a share.
00:31:53
Speaker
There was another one where she was told that her broker was like hey, I think this would be a smart business move. I would advise you to do so. And she said, all right, sure, go for it.
00:32:04
Speaker
Like there were contradictory statements about the same thing, but it really was the U.S. attorney, Jim Coney, who really seemed to double down on Martha specifically for some reason.
00:32:23
Speaker
And Peter, who was the broker, actually makes a statement that he, Jim really wanted him to say Martha knew. So there seemed to be this focus in on Martha, the celebrity, the billionaire, like take her down, the woman in power.
00:32:43
Speaker
he kept pushing Peter to say she knew and that's why she did it. And he never did because he still to this day stands by i never told her anything.
00:32:56
Speaker
Like she chose to do it. And I think that that is is splitting hairs because I think he told people to tell her. True. Instead of telling her himself, which whatever, I guess that's not technically and a lie.
00:33:09
Speaker
um Very close, though. And I think what one of the things that really got her was. Douglas something, he was an assistant yeah that she had been very rude to on the phone.
00:33:22
Speaker
And he was like, she was just a bitch, basically. And so I helped get her convicted. And then her friend ended up testifying against her. And she did not take a plea.
00:33:33
Speaker
And she was found guilty. And while this was all going on, the press was wild. And Martha Stewart Living was tanking, which is now a publicly traded company, which is great until you lose your public favor.
00:33:51
Speaker
And then the whole business is Martha Stewart. It's her image. It's her face. It's her brand. It's her personality. its It's all about her.
00:34:02
Speaker
yeah so now that she is being called into question and being labeled all these ways as a criminal, as an insider's traitor, someone who's obstructing police investigations, she's She really got the book thrown at her and was made a public spectacle and it had a massive impact on her business.
00:34:25
Speaker
Yeah, because in January 2004, which is when the trial started in New York, ah went for about three months. And March 5th, she was found guilty on four counts.
00:34:37
Speaker
ah One count of conspiracy, one count of obstruction to justice, and two counts of false statements to a federal investigator, which include felonies. And the ah the broker was convicted of similar charges.
00:34:52
Speaker
Sam Waxel. I'm terrible with names today. think it's Waxel. Who was the CEO of the company. um He actually pled guilty to security fraud, bank fraud, obstruction deductions, perjury, conspiracy, and wire fraud.
00:35:11
Speaker
And again, not one of them been. insider trading charges which originally was what we were going after which i thought was interesting but again i do think that's very interesting because she's basically being convicted of lying about insider trading that they were not able to prove actually happened Right.
00:35:39
Speaker
You're convicted of a crime that you didn't actually commit. You just lied about it, which is a weird you brain flop. um yeah But either way, she got her sentence and she went to jail, which I think people, this was like early on where everyone had the mindset of like, if you're famous or you have enough money, you can get out of anything.
00:36:03
Speaker
Yeah. And this really kind of shows the fact that if they want you in jail bad enough, you're going to jail. Like, I don't care how much money you have. especially if you're Especially if you're a bitchy woman. i mean, my goodness. Oh, we're going to come back to that. Trust me. think I don't think anybody really thought that she was going to get convicted. i mean, in the in her inner circle, I don't think people thought that she was really going to get convicted or actually do jail time. Alexis actually...
00:36:31
Speaker
fainted at the sentencing um at the verdict i mean which was sad to think about and martha had to resign from the board of martha stewart living which is nuts because that's literally you like it's your company that you built from nothing and it's your name and you now don't have control over it And I thought it was crazy that she let people film her in the weeks leading up to her actually going to prison.
00:37:03
Speaker
My guess some of that was like not an option. it Because you could kind of see by her facial expression she didn't want to be there. Because they they showed a couple clips of it.
00:37:17
Speaker
And how can you even force her to do that at that point? Well, I think she forced herself. For the money? i think she forced herself. Because from – you got to remember, you just said her stocks plummeted. She lost control of her business. All the TV magazines pulled.
00:37:33
Speaker
Her airtime pulled. Yeah. She lost her board seats. She is trying at this point, would be my guess, to do everything she can to keep her business from literally dissolving.
00:37:45
Speaker
Because like you said, it's 100% around Martha Stewart, right? Something happens to Martha, the company goes away. I think this was her moment of how do I keep it alive while I'm gone?
00:37:59
Speaker
Because her sentence was five months in federal prison and five months of home confinement plus two years probation and a $30,000 fine. Fine. Easy. She probably wrote a check and it was like her interest.
00:38:12
Speaker
Like home confinement in her estate. Easy. i would do five years of home confinement on her estate. But five months in prison, she is removed from public eye. She's removed from talking to people. She's removed from at of sight, out of mind. Right.
00:38:31
Speaker
She is probably thinking, and this is my speculation, what do I got to do to keep people talking over these five months? So those things that were being recorded probably came out while she was gone.
00:38:47
Speaker
That's probably true. Yeah. I guess she wanted to put her own version of things out there and she wanted to keep her face in front of cameras and she didn't want anyone to forget about her.
00:38:59
Speaker
um But it was just, it was kind of raw. And yeah there was that one scene where she's just being completely nasty to one of the women that's working in her kitchen. And then she makes a remark like, oh, you can't film that.
00:39:11
Speaker
Oh, you can't film that. And it's like, well... ah kind of already happening and now we're watching it so i think martha probably is a absolute nightmare to work for but Moving on.
Prison Time and Personal Growth
00:39:26
Speaker
I think that in the prison, she initially had a pretty hard time. And it seems like from her notes and things like that, that she found a lot of the initial prison stay to be pretty humiliating. And a lot of things were embarrassing and the strip searches and the lack of privacy. that would be...
00:39:47
Speaker
so so difficult for most people but especially someone with the level of wealth and privilege that she'd been living with um to just be in this kind of ah super vulnerable situation with all these strangers while you're famous like it's not like Martha can just fly under the radar she's recognizable in a women's prison and I'm sure it was big news that she was going to be in that prison so um But it seems like she eventually started to really thrive.
00:40:16
Speaker
She did a lot of speaking. She helped people with business plans. She did a lot of work on the garden and the prison and got supplies for the inmates, which is pretty cool.
00:40:27
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, I think it ah really put things in perspective where she was just another inmate. And I did think it was interesting that they they sent her to West Virginia to Camp Cupcake is what the name of it was. And it was I thought that was really funny that they put that in there because it is not a cupcake.
00:40:49
Speaker
um But appreciated they put this in here because she really was treated like any other person. She wasn't special. She wasn't isolated.
00:41:02
Speaker
Because going into this documentary, I was under the impression that while she was in prison, she was separate. That she was, had that kind of, because of her status, a little bit more removed, which is something we do a lot in prisons now, where if you have too much influence, they tend to remove you.
00:41:25
Speaker
And or if you're going into a prison where people are going to be long stays, they have nothing to lose, could cause issues. And she she had those experiences that every other person who goes to prison has.
00:41:41
Speaker
And i thought it was kind of funny that she focused it on the food and how horrible it was. Because for her, that was a huge deal, right? Like she's used to delicious food, but that's also her thing is food.
00:41:57
Speaker
Uh, but she also breezed over the fact of the violence that was happening in the prison. And they didn't touch on this. And i producers definitely had her kind of, I think she said it and don't think producers were prepared for it.
00:42:13
Speaker
That's why I got glossed over. um but prisons are not a happy go lucky place. There is a lot of violence that takes place there.
00:42:25
Speaker
And yeah she saw it. She recognized it. She was right there with it. And I don't think there's a doubt in my mind that she was probably involved in some of it.
00:42:38
Speaker
Not necessarily like her jumping someone else, but like right a fight in the calf or someone coming at her or it was happening next to her. Like there's not a doubt in my mind that something like that happened at some point, right?
00:42:57
Speaker
um I wouldn't be surprised. And I don't think the producers wanted to open that door just because that opens a whole new can of worms, right?
00:43:09
Speaker
But it was interesting when she was talking about it, her boyfriend, Charles... who they were basically together for 15 years, which is more or less acting like a married couple. He only visited her once the entire time she was there, which granted she was only there for five months, but that still seems
00:43:31
Speaker
I don't know like her Her daughter went every weekend. ah Yeah. Charles went once. Although will say, do you want him to visit every weekend or do you want him to send the private plane when you get really...
00:43:45
Speaker
true he did do that that was very nice of him I I'm gonna I'm gonna go with the private plane you don't have to visit but I do need to get expressly out of here and I love that she wore the prison poncho on her way out and people were like why are you wearing that she's like isn't it great but again friend made it I just love it again back to like OG Martha she's like listen, everybody has something to offer. And this woman made this and it's awesome. And I like it. So I like it. So I'm going to wear it. I don't really care what you say.
00:44:21
Speaker
Yeah. And then she had like her first like TV shows, like when she came back and she was like wearing the poncho and she brought out dogs wearing the ponchos. And it was just like such a funny, it kind of iconic move. Yeah. I loved it. I thought it was hysterical.
00:44:36
Speaker
um Yeah, me too. But then when it comes to her boyfriend, I think the last thing that is notable is after her release, very quickly after her release, they were
Rebranding and Public Image
00:44:49
Speaker
in bed together. And that's when he told her that ah he was leaving her to get married.
00:44:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:00
Speaker
Big blow. um They were on vacation together, laying in bed. And he's just like, I'm going to be getting married and i'm not going able to see you anymore. I'm sorry, what?
00:45:11
Speaker
Why did you leave me while I was in prison? Well, at least he sent the plane. Like, i it's like you could have sent the plane and then said, by the way, I'm done.
00:45:23
Speaker
Right. Charles is just like one of those. And he also married someone who was like 30 years younger and had kids with her like immediately. Right.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I think he was getting to that point of like his family was probably like, you need to settle down with a nice girl and make your family and getting that social pressure. Right.
00:45:44
Speaker
And marrying a felon is probably not in that. Oh, my God. i guess. Yeah. so I mean, they they broke up. I think there's some, you know, some bad feelings towards that, but who wouldn't be annoyed with that?
00:45:59
Speaker
um Business-wise, though, feel like things were not going that well. I mean, Martha had lost... control of her company. So when she came back from prison, she was now kind of more at the mercy of other companies and other producers. And she wasn't making all of the executive decisions.
00:46:19
Speaker
And she was doing ah kind of silly shows with celebrities, teaching them how to cook. And it just really wasn't, it wasn't her. um So I feel like she was kind of, she was sort of struggling. She she did not come back in full force after prison.
00:46:36
Speaker
Which is understandable. Yeah. But I'm sure was a bummer. It's not like she didn't do anything. But things were definitely different. Until... The roast of Justin Bieber.
00:46:47
Speaker
Most random turn of events. Which i I saw this roast when it happened. And i thought it was the funniest thing in the world that she was on there. And honestly, I think she made the panel. I think she really balanced it out, which I appreciate. Because you had people like Kevin Harch, Keel O'Neill, Snoop Dogg, and Martha. Mm-hmm.
00:47:11
Speaker
Yeah. And she was getting ripped apart by comedians and putting it right back out them. She was so classy for every single thing thrown at her because she understood it's a roast also. So she has like a, she's funny.
00:47:27
Speaker
She's funny. She did. She had some good liners and I don't think anyone expected that from her. No one was ready. They didn't. For sure they didn't.
00:47:37
Speaker
And she was hilarious. I think she made that roast what it was and it put her in a different view in people's mind. And that's when she became friends with Snoop Dogg.
00:47:51
Speaker
Snoop Dogg. Which has opened ah brand new chapter, which I love. Yeah. Yeah, I think. And Snoop is so hyped about her. ah They are my favorite. And like she was explaining it like she I think this really opened the door for her to show her like raunchy side because she's a little like little raunchy, little salty, like but she's how old is she now? 70.
00:48:20
Speaker
seven 70? And she yeah looks amazing. and Her is tea. Oh, yeah. She was the oldest person who was featured on Sports Illustrated as a model.
00:48:37
Speaker
And she looks better than most 40-year-olds. my God. And... thirty year olds oh my god and Her and Snoop, but she truly just rebranded and they started doing a TV show and appearances. And i think she took on this like sexy grandma rebrand and became popular again. And what an interesting combo. It's just I love it. I love it.
00:49:08
Speaker
Yeah, she can really evolve. She can pivot. She can roll with the punches. And I think that her and Snoop really hit it off at the roast. They, you know, she was getting a little contact high because he's smoking, you know, blunt after blunt after blunt next to her for seven hours.
00:49:26
Speaker
So I'm sure they were, you know. Feeling it. And they just, they bonded. They really saw something in each other. And I think part of that is that they have extremely different base audiences.
00:49:39
Speaker
And they were able to make content together that is enjoyed by everyone. Because if you like Snoop, then you can put up with Martha in this situation. And if you're a Martha fan, then maybe you're seeing something in Snoop now that is beyond just rap and hip hop.
00:49:56
Speaker
And I feel like they've both become just more developed celebrities that now do all of these other side quests. And they're at the Olympics together, like hanging out with all the Olympians families. And they're just hilarious together. And they make like stoner cookbooks.
00:50:13
Speaker
I love it. Yeah. I think they just allowed each other to be truly who they around everybody else. Right. Like I think that Snoop probably always had this like goofy...
00:50:26
Speaker
funny mentality, but his image was rapper, stoner, gangbanger. And after this, now he's like goofing around on TV, wearing like crazy hats and going to the Olympics and pretending he's an equestrian. Like...
00:50:43
Speaker
Versus Martha, I think she always had this raunchy, smoking type to her, but couldn't let the public see that because it wasn't the image, right?
00:50:56
Speaker
um And I mean, at the end of the documentary, it kind of ends with her deciding that imperfection is okay, which you could tell she's still a little uncomfortable with as she said it. ah But I like that it kind of...
00:51:13
Speaker
it showed her evolving it showed that things are going to be okay and everyone can come back from something if she can go from nothing to the height fall of grace and come back again you can do it too i think is her her subtle message right and i think it also is like a good example of like um
00:51:37
Speaker
if If you refuse to be canceled and you're willing to continue to make things, to try new things, to keep yourself in the public eye, there are redemptions.
00:51:49
Speaker
And I think that some people would have just hid away from the world if they were Martha and they had been embarrassed the way that she was. But I just don't think that she was a person that was ever going to stay beaten down.
00:52:00
Speaker
Yeah. And... She maybe don't know that men always have the same appreciation for Martha Stewart. I feel like that's just one thing that I feel a bit a bit but binary about.
00:52:13
Speaker
And I think that women have an appreciation for Martha and like what she does specifically in a way that it doesn't really hit a male audience. And that's also a nice thing with Snoop Dogg and her because they are.
00:52:27
Speaker
it's just more exposure and it's like a whole new group of people. And is... sno is a rapper for sure a performer smokes a lot of weed but he's also been married forever yeah he has a bunch of kids and grandkids he's like a very family man he like he likes to cook he likes you know there's dimensions to him right but again something that wasn't as well allowed to be public image right he had and it's changed i love right i loved that they can support each other with that
00:52:59
Speaker
um So as we wrap this up, what are some of your kind of final thoughts or opinions about the different stuff we've
Reflections on Martha's Legacy
00:53:07
Speaker
touched? Because we've touched a lot of aspects of her life.
00:53:11
Speaker
So think one of my thoughts is that she shouldn't have gone to prison. And I think that that was... kind of a misuse of taxpayer money to pursue those charges. i don't think it really accomplished anything for the greater good. I think it just was to stick it to a celebrity, especially a woman. And I think that if she was a man that she would not have gone to prison in the same circumstance.
00:53:38
Speaker
And I, um that really bothers me. Yeah, I think I would agree with that because you look at like the CEO, his chart is totally agree with it.
00:53:50
Speaker
The broker, i i do agree with that because he's the one who does all of the transactions. But I also find it hard to believe that she's the only one that he apparently gave this information to.
00:54:05
Speaker
There's no way. Like did his whole family go to prison too? Because they also their shares. Yeah. All these other people. And also this is the money that she sold was like 40 grand. Like that was peanuts to her.
00:54:19
Speaker
Like she could have lost that and she would have been upset, but I don't think she would have cared. So the fact that they're going after her for this kind of money, i think I think you're right. I think it was a power move. I think it was a moment the U.S. attorney saw it as an opportunity to make a name for himself, to take down a celebrity.
00:54:41
Speaker
But also... yeah I think I agree where it it was her. She was a very aggressive, dominant female.
00:54:53
Speaker
And even now, women deal with backlash for that kind of stuff where if you're aggressive, you're ruthless, you drive for what you want as a man, it's looked at as amazing, encouraging, go-getter,
00:55:10
Speaker
powerful. But if a woman does it, you're bitch. And if a woman does it, it's disrespectful. If I tell you you're doing terrible at your job, I'm rude.
00:55:23
Speaker
But if a man tells you, it's criticism. like And i think they really zoned in on the fact that she quote, acted like a man and ran this company, ran it like any man would.
00:55:41
Speaker
i don't care if you're good like, if you're bad at your job, you're replaceable. Like, sorry. i have no need to be tiptoeing around it.
00:55:52
Speaker
And i think right people who were testifying against her, a lot of them were just bringing up examples of her, quote, being mean or abusive and Don't get me wrong. She probably was a little bit of a bitch.
00:56:06
Speaker
But i don't think it was nearly as much as the media and these people were trying to make it seem. i think she just behaved like a quote man and they didn't like it, particularly when her image was a housewife. didn't like
00:56:25
Speaker
Right. Although she was achieving in like a completely feminine space, it was still obviously threatening to men. And um they saw this as an opportunity to put her down a notch and make an example.
00:56:43
Speaker
And I think a more appropriate punishment would have probably to be paying back Like the money that you illegally profited. i think that obviously makes more sense. And like I probably a plea should have been ah able to be reached and it maybe wouldn't have ruined her whole company the way that it did.
00:57:01
Speaker
Um, not that I think that rich people should just be able to buy themselves out of a situation, but I do think sometimes custodial sentences for financial crimes just end up costing the actual state and the actual taxpayers way more money.
00:57:17
Speaker
And so what's the, what's the benefit to doing this? Like you did not help anyone. Nobody was in danger. to get Martha Stewart off the street. Like, yeah Oh, what is she going to be rude to people who work in her house? Like definitely, she definitely is going to be like that, but that's not illegal.
00:57:35
Speaker
Yeah. And if, and if she's being abusive, then that's a separate thing. Yeah, exactly. And i think that's the, the complexity of white collar crimes, right? Where you that's yeah the where people struggle of how damaging is it? how,
00:57:53
Speaker
harmful is it and I think it just depends on what the crime in relation to the money it is in my opinion I think if you got a tip that some stocks were falling I don't think that's a huge deal like in the grand scheme of things when you have people skimming off retirement accounts that feels like a bigger deal to me um or someone who also the person giving her the information that's who's doing something really wrong right you're i'm just following the advice of my broker what's the deal like yeah like that's why that's what i hire him for yeah is to give me advice and yeah she probably did something wrong but they couldn't prove inside her trading so they should have just let it go it have been a lesson learned i feel like yeah but hit her with a big fine call it a day
00:58:46
Speaker
But I also think this gave her an opportunity to be friends with Snoop Dogg, so i'm kind of thankful for it. Yeah, it's true. It would be, i wish we could see like a, like what would have happened had this not happened. Cause it was kind of at the height of everything. Yeah.
00:59:03
Speaker
And I think that Martha would be wildly successful still, and it would be different than it is now, but it would just be, it would be so interesting to see what would have happened.
00:59:14
Speaker
Yeah. I'd she didn't have this kind of derailing it. I also, it's like first female billionaire, her to prison. Right. Right. Well, even also with that in mind, if she'd never, if this never happened, what feminism would look like now?
00:59:30
Speaker
Because yeah she very much brought the idea of you can do it all, but also being perfect. So I'd be curious if women would have more of a lean towards feminism
00:59:49
Speaker
I don't know, because i feel like trad wives are starting to come back into, quote, popularity or they're trendy. And she gave this idea of the perfect home, but also to be a businesswoman. So it'd be really interesting how she would have portrayed and like morphed with society as it went. It would be really interesting to see where the general people would be yeah in perspective.
01:00:18
Speaker
For sure. Because she has had a massive cultural impact and it shifted when she had these legal issues yeah and had to rebrand and rebuild herself.
01:00:29
Speaker
um So it would be totally different. And it would have been interesting to see like her transition as social media developed. Yeah. Without this kind of a scandal. Although of course. Other scandals could have come up.
01:00:41
Speaker
And maybe there was way worse things. That she was doing that didn't come out. That's possible too. i don't think that most people. Can ethically become billionaires. I think that there's probably a lot of.
01:00:53
Speaker
Stepping on people's necks to get there. And I'm sure that. She maybe had to do some unscrupulous things. And maybe other things. Would have come out. But just feel like it was kind of a lame.
01:01:06
Speaker
reason for her to go to jail yeah i can't believe i didn't know that it wasn't insider trading i really thought that's what it was yeah i feel like that's the cultural understanding of it right because again it was the media right everyone just reads the headline but not the article yeah how about you do you have a big takeaway a thought that you want to express about our girl martha ah You know, i i love her. i think her story is awesome. I agree. She probably had her moments, but go for it. If you have a dream, go for it.
01:01:40
Speaker
And honestly, men suck sometimes. And I think she really was the first one to stand up and be like, I don't really care about your opinion. I'm going to do what I want to do.
01:01:53
Speaker
And I appreciate that about her. I think women can learn from that where just because you're told something is the way you should do it doesn't necessarily if you won't have a dream go for it if a man tells you you can't do it that doesn't mean you can't do it like absolutely it's okay to advocate for your own ideas and just because you like one thing it also doesn't define you as a whole yeah and I feel like that just sort of clicked for me in a way were talking about feminism we were talking about her image rebrand with snoop it's like
01:02:25
Speaker
She is feminine in a lot of ways. She's an amazing cook. She's an amazing housekeeper. She's an amazing, like the crafts, all of that stuff yeah are things that are so, the wedding things, all of the kids.
01:02:37
Speaker
She does a lot of female aesthetics, but she also is extremely shrewd and business minded in a way that- I think people perceive as masculine. Yeah. And I just don't think that she's able to be pigeonholed into these tiny little boxes because she's complex.
01:02:55
Speaker
And I think that really everyone is. And it's such a good example of how you can be many things at once. And there's really no need to limit yourself. yeah completely agree well yeah I love her too ah I think this was a good one positives negatives um but i can't wait for our next ones anyone I highly recommend watching this documentary if you haven't done it it's it's lighthearted it's easy watching ah which is contrary to some of the other documentaries we watch so I recommend checking it out for sure I definitely agree all right Crystal I will talk to you soon until next time