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Jessica Groves
205 Plays1 month ago
**Trigger warning**- child abuse, neglect, death
Listener discretion is advised.
May contain explicit language and unfounded accusations.
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Transcript
Introduction to Jessica Groves Case
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome back to the Mothers of All Crime. Today we have kind of an upsetting case to talk about. Obviously they're all upsetting but I feel like this one doesn't have there's no real There's no real positives to say, but I do think it's an important case to talk about, and it opens up some other broader issues that we could discuss that affect mothers and children and the criminal justice system in general.
Viral Impact and Investigation
00:00:48
Speaker
um So, k Crystal, today we're going to be talking about the case of Jessica Groves um in relation to Dylan Groves. How are you doing today? I'm good. How are you? I'm excited about this one. we We have a running list for people who don't know of cases that you've heard about in the past, I've heard about the past, groups that we both know.
00:01:10
Speaker
And this one was definitely one of your suggestions and i don't know a ton about. So I'm excited to kind of find out another for the list. the list
00:01:24
Speaker
Yeah, so this, the trial for Jessica Groves, spoiler alert, is all over YouTube. There's multiple police interrogations online. There's some TikToks that went kind of viral showing things that happened in the interrogations and in the court and with the prosecutor. And so that's how I heard about the case, saw the case
Premature Birth and Drug Exposure
00:01:47
Speaker
in general. And that prompted me to do like a little bit of background and just figuring out what actually happened.
00:01:53
Speaker
happened um from, you know, because if you just watch a couple of clips, you don't really know. but Right. Yeah. Yeah. So it basically starts out with Jessica and Daniel Groves live in Ohio and they have a son who is about 14 and then have another son.
00:02:13
Speaker
And the baby they have is named
Positive Foster Experience
00:02:17
Speaker
Dylan. He's born kind of premature And Jessica is not forthcoming with medical information when she's at the hospital having him.
00:02:27
Speaker
And she refuses to do a drug test. So the hospital ends up testing her urine through a catheter against her will and testing the baby's blood and finding amphetamines and methamphetamines and fentanyl in the blood and the urine.
00:02:47
Speaker
And because of that, Dylan was having a lot of problems as a baby and needed to go to the NICU. and He was having trouble breathing and dealing with symptoms of withdrawal.
00:02:59
Speaker
So CPS gets involved and Dylan is taken into a foster home where he actually experiences a lot of love and stability, but it's only for like two weeks.
Systemic Failures in Supervision
00:03:13
Speaker
I know. Which I feel like is the opposite of what a lot of our stories are. Like, they go to a foster home and it's horrible. So I'm like, I'm glad to get some kind of positive reinforcement that there are some good foster homes still out there that probably need more recognition than they get. Yeah, I think it's such an important...
00:03:34
Speaker
thing in society to have people taking in children in times of crisis. um It's just so much better than being left in an unsafe situation and if possible to be in a family environment especially for such a young infant like they really need that one-to-one care.
00:03:57
Speaker
they need ah a parental figure to take care of them all the time. So it is so important. And i think that foster parents, I'm sure there's, you know, a range of different types of foster parents. But in this case, it seems like Dylan's foster mom was very much on the ball.
00:04:20
Speaker
And she was observant and she would go to visits with Jessica and Daniel with Dylan. Like she would bring Dylan to the visits and she thought Jessica was high at these visits and she brought it to the attention of social workers.
00:04:35
Speaker
And it to me doesn't seem like that was taken very seriously, even though it does seem like some like... I guess you could think that the foster mother maybe would think that just because the baby is withdrawing, like that the mother is probably still on drugs. So she's just making a judgment of that. But if she's physically seeing her and interacting with her and that's her conclusion, i feel like that's something that should be taken pretty seriously, especially since that's the whole reason he's been removed.
Custody Regained Through Deceit
00:05:07
Speaker
Right. And like a lot of the time there's some kind of testing that the bio parent has to be going through too. Like you remove the kid and then you have to test clean for X amount of months or X amount of tests.
00:05:22
Speaker
So you would think that when you have the foster parent saying, Hey, I have a suspicion of them being under the influence or high during these visits, I'm That would trigger some kind of test of, hey, on and the process of getting back your kid, you need to continue to be taking these tests.
00:05:44
Speaker
Because also at the hospital, if you are refusing a drug test, it's never a good sign.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah, ah it's not a good indicator that the test is going to be negative. That's for sure. I could see being offended ah being asked to take a drug test sure maybe we not being happy to do it.
00:06:07
Speaker
But it doesn't it doesn't make you look sober for sure to refuse it. And they're going to take it anyway. ah just Right. like You're in the hospital and the baby is having symptoms of withdrawal. Like, they have to.
00:06:22
Speaker
and Also, if they test the baby, like the baby just came out of you, doesn't take a rocket scientist to, like, put that one together. Yeah. They really didn't even need to test her.
00:06:34
Speaker
They could have just tested Dylan because it's that's obviously the source. It's not a he... found a drug dealer in the 20 minutes. 40, 48 hour infant buying drugs off the street.
00:06:48
Speaker
Exactly.
Discovery of Dylan's Disappearance
00:06:49
Speaker
So, so, um, Jessica wasn't, really meeting a lot of criteria to get Dylan back.
00:06:59
Speaker
But his father, Daniel had a history of passing drug tests at work for like six months. And so he was deemed to be sober and responsible enough to get the baby back.
00:07:12
Speaker
And so he was supposed to have custody of the older son, Daniel Jr. And the baby Dylan and Jessica was allowed to be there. She was allowed to see the kids, but she was not supposed to be living there.
00:07:26
Speaker
Um, so something very important that does come up much later is that the older son, Daniel Jr. has since testified saying that his father would use his urine to pass the drug tests at work.
00:07:43
Speaker
Lovely. What great parenting. Great parenting. know. I know. Exactly. And that's how he was, you know, seem seem to be sober because he keeps passing all these drug tests so it's not a danger for Dylan to go back to him but of course he is almost immediately leaving Jessica alone with the kids of course naturally which yeah I think from the ones we've done in the past we saw that coming um but I can't imagine that that would be abnormal with just like the more extreme like you would
00:08:19
Speaker
think that that's something the caseworkers just assume or should operate under assuming like this is gonna happen at least in my opinion yeah and i think i i think probably everybody assumed that it would and she was at visits and stuff when social workers would come she would be there constantly holding the baby and seemed to be like very very affectionate towards him and you know didn't really even let anyone else hold him she was always present um until they kind of stopped being available for visits and they started missing doctor's appointments for Dylan and Daniel stopped going to work and
00:09:00
Speaker
because of the the scrutiny of the situation and that their involvement with CPS, they're trying to make contact with them. They're calling, they're coming to the house, they're attempting to see them.
00:09:12
Speaker
And eventually Daniel Jr. gets taken by CPS from school. And um Jessica is later taken for questioning by the police.
00:09:25
Speaker
And she her story initially is that um she doesn't know where Dylan is and that he actually is in CPS custody and someone from CPS has taken him.
Uncovering the Hidden Crime
00:09:37
Speaker
So she doesn't have him and he's not missing. And CPS is like, we do not have him. we definitely do not have him. good so Yeah.
00:09:49
Speaker
And then Daniel was evading police and didn't want to be questioned, but eventually was found, brought to the police station for questioning. And he also states that Dylan was in the custody of CPS.
00:10:03
Speaker
And it takes him getting very dope sick during the interrogation for him to finally break down and admit that he came home one day and found Dylan deceased in his crib and assumed it was natural causes and completely panicked.
00:10:25
Speaker
I feel like this is bad to say, but like, I feel like if I'm going to blame someone else having my kid, it's going to be an agency that doesn't have documentation. Like I'm going to say he's at my friend's house or he ran away. Well, he's an infant, so he couldn't run away. But like he was kidnapped. like I'm going to come up with something that a state agency can't go. Hold on. Let me put his name in our database.
00:10:49
Speaker
Nope. Sorry. Like pick someone that you have a shot, man.
00:10:57
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like a common theme here is not having clear minds, not thinking rationally, not making good decisions, not making sense, not putting the children's needs first, not protecting their safety. Right.
00:11:16
Speaker
But again, if you're ah drug addict and you're on... Your priority is drugs, unfortunately. Your priority typically is not your children. and And their instinct is to protect themselves and their habit over others.
00:11:35
Speaker
and And that's a very sad thing to say, but I think that's also playing a factor here. It's not just, hey, i'm going to protect my wife or whatever the case is. It's I need to protect my ability to keep using. I'm going to say what I got to say to do that.
00:11:54
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a a big thing here. I think he did want to protect Jessica as well, but there's there's a lot of factors going on.
00:12:04
Speaker
um So he panicked, and instead of calling an ambulance or the police or Child Protective Services or anyone, they...
00:12:18
Speaker
got rid of the body and daniel said that he would lead the police to the body and he took them to a location where they searched for hours and hours and found absolutely nothing and daniel was begging to see jessica One of the detectives allowed it and the room that they were sitting in together was recorded as most rooms in a police station are.
00:12:48
Speaker
Yeah. and they, I mean, these videos are on YouTube and it is probably worth watching, but it's very clear what they're saying. It's not like open to interpretation. They're talking loudly about their charges and like what they're each getting charged with.
00:13:05
Speaker
There's like 11 felonies that they're possibly being charged with. And they're complaining about yeah going to jail, basically, and being handcuffed. And they're just complaining.
00:13:19
Speaker
And they start whispering, but it's very... loud whispering talking about the stories that they were keeping straight with the police and Daniel said that he took the police to the wrong location. Let's recap it in the police station.
00:13:38
Speaker
He literally says Oh, well I didn't take them to the right place. And the cops play the recording back and call him out and confront him. And he denies it until they tell him that there's a recording and it's clear as day what he's saying. And then all the rooms are bugged.
00:13:57
Speaker
And he tries to take them to another wrong location until he eventually shows the police to a well in the ground which is basically like a 30-foot hole in the ground filled with water. There's no structure above it. It's just a hole in the ground that leads down to a spring.
Evidence of Severe Abuse
00:14:17
Speaker
And the firefighters eventually pull out two plastic milk crates that are zip-tied together with padlocks weighted down with rocks, covered in plastic, covered in duct tape, and the remains of an infant baby.
00:14:37
Speaker
o which is apparently how he dealt with it when he panicked, is he put together this very elaborate yeah coffin and dumped it down a extremely deep hole.
00:14:56
Speaker
Like, that's...
00:14:59
Speaker
Because we have crimes of passion, right? Like the instinctual response that was a little over the top. at this point now, there's a plan. There's a thought process. It was time that you invested it into doing this.
00:15:15
Speaker
And it's not like it was in their backyard, right? It was... You had to put effort in to get to this point. So I find it really hard to believe that, oh it's just casual.
00:15:28
Speaker
Oh, it was an accident. I didn't know what else to do. you did. Yes, you did. You chose not to.
00:15:38
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. um And the autopsy findings are horrifying.
00:15:50
Speaker
So the baby weighs four pounds and eight ounces, which is about three pounds less than he weighed his last doctor's appointment, which could be related to just decomposition.
00:16:03
Speaker
But it's also possible he lost weight prior to his passing. And he had multiple broken bones. His left humerus was fractured.
00:16:15
Speaker
His left radius and ulna both fractured. His last left tibia is fractured. He had two healing fractures on ribs. And he had two fractures on his skull.
00:16:30
Speaker
And one of the which is obviously extremely disturbing and hard to think about this is a 11 week old infant. But something that's even more horrifying is the coroner believe that these injuries related to three separate violent events.
00:16:47
Speaker
That the ribs were broken first because they were almost healed. And then the first skull fracture, because one of the fractures was in a state of healing.
00:16:58
Speaker
And then the second skull fracture and the rest of the broken limbs was related to his cause of death.
00:17:09
Speaker
Yeah. And when you have, like, not only were the fracture, there are different levels of bruising, too, which just, again, reinforces. ah bruise doesn't come from that moment.
00:17:20
Speaker
It develops over time. And having them at different levels, again. And when you have such violence towards such a small person,
00:17:34
Speaker
where that that's not an accident. Again, we have examples that we've talked about, like shaking a baby a little too hard or you trip and fall and the baby's in your arms. like There are horrible things that happen that genuinely are not intentional, but you can't sit here and tell me that all of these multiple events, there isn't some kind of intention there. Right.
00:18:03
Speaker
and having some kind of like true violence. But again, then my other part goes, well, when you're on methamphetamines, you can be more violent. You have these outbursts, you have these behaviors that you take out on others. And unfortunately, I wonder if this baby just got the brunt of a bad trip.
Denial and Accountability in Court
00:18:32
Speaker
I don't, I don't know, but either way, it's absolutely horrifying.
00:18:38
Speaker
Oh, yeah, definitely horrifying. And, yeah, I mean, obviously, a super significant factor that Jessica was on amphetamines, on methamphetamines, and something else that they found in the autopsy was that the baby's liver had tested positive for meth.
00:18:59
Speaker
And at 11 weeks old, that is not still from birth. So he either... got it from secondhand smoke.
00:19:11
Speaker
They were smoking meth in the house or from breastfeeding. Um, and it, that has not been determined and it doesn't really matter, i suppose, but this child was still being,
00:19:28
Speaker
supplied with meth up until he passed away. So not only was his body battered and beaten, any progress he had made with the withdrawals and getting over his horrible disservice that he got at birth, that was still happening.
00:19:44
Speaker
He was still being affected by meth in so many ways. And these drugs were such a major, major part of his life and death. And it's, I mean, it's horribly sad, obviously.
00:19:58
Speaker
yeah doesn't even feel yeah like something that could have really happened but it definitely did happen and it does happen yeah and in his death was ruled a homicide um i did find something about the violence also involving a blunt force drama relations so you gotta wonder if how much of it was also planned but yeah as they're going what i thought was kind of crazy is jessica's response to the questioning that specifically in relation to his injuries where she does end up confessing to it and
00:20:44
Speaker
on the stand during and like open was like, yep, hundred percent, but also claimed it was accidental. How do you have this many things at this significance all accidental?
00:20:59
Speaker
Well, she says that she accidentally dropped him once and doesn't remember any other time that she would have hurt him and that she would have never attacked him or harmed her children in any way.
00:21:13
Speaker
And that's just simply not possible and not true. there had to be multiple events of extreme violence for the injuries to look the way that they looked.
00:21:26
Speaker
So, I mean, obviously she, I don't want to say she's taking accountability. I think that's how she views it. i think she is a victim in her own mind that thinks that,
00:21:39
Speaker
it's brave of her to admit that this is her fault, but that it still wasn't intentional because she can't go there. And even if perhaps she was in some sort of psychosis or delusion, or maybe she really doesn't remember, but I, I think that's convenient that you just don't remember.
00:21:59
Speaker
Yeah. You take the word right out of my mouth. It's convenient. um The only way that I think she couldn't remember as if she was high.
00:22:09
Speaker
And i don't think she's going to admit to be using illegal drugs at the same time as admitting to basically killing her child. Like, I think she's going to play the same thing. Like, you mentioned, like, i i can't believe this happened. Poor me.
00:22:28
Speaker
Yes, i dropped him, but, like, I didn't mean to hurt him. like i the only way she could not remember is if she was high. and blacked out. The only way.
00:22:40
Speaker
And I don't even know if that's true.
00:22:43
Speaker
Well, the closest she comes to even taking that amount of accountability is saying, my mind wasn't clear because of drugs. like in a She had basically like a verbal altercation with the prosecutor while she was testifying.
00:22:56
Speaker
And the only reason she was testifying at all, because she did admit to it, so it really shouldn't have even had to go to trial, but Daniel was being charged with I think um sorry. I don't know. if I don't have it here if if it was manslaughter or murder, but he was being charged with the actual death of the baby and that his defense obviously did not want him to be to have that charge because then he would have gotten life without the possibility of parole.
00:23:26
Speaker
And their defense of him was basically that he did not kill Dylan. He just helped dispose of the body and he didn't turn Jessica in. And that's still obviously extremely illegal, but it's not murder.
Sentencing and Responsibility
00:23:41
Speaker
And so that's why they had the trial in the first place. And Jessica, you can tell she thinks she's like doing something amazing by testifying, like that she's somehow redeeming herself in the situation.
00:23:54
Speaker
and something that really stuck out to me is her saying to the prosecutor, i have to live with this for the rest of my life. You have devoured my family.
00:24:05
Speaker
i have to live without my children. And it's like, you have to live without your children because you. killed your children. That's not your You lost your baby because you killed him. And then your son, who is in high school, has been taken into foster care because of your neglect and abuse and drug use and violence.
00:24:30
Speaker
Like, this is all on the parents. there It's such a... crazy I mean, I feel like she just has to do some sort of mental gymnastics to be able to not completely just self-combust because how could you face a reality like this is completely your own fault?
00:24:50
Speaker
But in this situation... I mean, for me, it's a little hard not to blame CPS. And, you know, I partially want to hold other people responsible. But at the end of the day, the person making all the decisions that led to this terrible, terrible outcome is Jessica.
00:25:09
Speaker
And Daniel still got 10 charges and got ultimately sentenced to 47 years to life. He won't be eligible for parole until, like, I think it's 2064. Yeah.
00:25:22
Speaker
And she's doing life in prison. and yeah Absolutely. Good. They should be in prison. They're dangers to everybody. But she ruined her life, the kids' life. Like, she ruined so many lives.
00:25:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think... no responsibility one One comical thing that I thought of, and it's not comical, but maybe more ironic, um because I think it's crazy whenever this happens, is Jessica got life without parole, like you mentioned.
00:25:53
Speaker
But then she got an additional 32 years just to, you know, put that nail in a coffin. And i think that kind of... want to make sure never gets out. Right. Ironic whenever that happens because i know we mentioned the same thing when we talked about the FLDS.
00:26:10
Speaker
But because there are options, right? There's ways to get around things. There's always a way to get out in a lot of cases. But I think with her, when you have 11 felony counts, life, without parole, plus those additional years, it's really just reinforcing the fact of yes if you tamper with these ones well you still got another 30 to go it doesn't matter ah and I think the same thing with him like you have 47 years that's a long time and that's assuming you have perfect behavior the chance of you going 30 years 40 years with no issues could it happen sure does it happen the majority of time no
00:26:58
Speaker
yeah i I think it's very possible that Daniel will never get out. And that's fine with me. And also good. because Yeah, because he made it seem like he had absolutely no idea how Dylan passed away and that it must have been natural causes. Yeah.
00:27:21
Speaker
And there's just no way in my mind that the injuries that Dylan had from his third violent attack would not be noticeable.
00:27:33
Speaker
That his skull is fractured, that his arm is severely broken in multiple places, his leg is broken. it it doesn't make sense there's no possible way that that would not be noticeable and that he would just look like a ah baby who passed from SIDS or something and of course if that was the case you would call an ambulance you would call the police there's no reason that you would put him in these milk crates and duct tape them together and put multiple padlocks and 18 rocks to weigh it down and dump it down a well but that is what you would do if you don't want anyone to see the injuries that he has
00:28:08
Speaker
Right. that Like anytime you hide a body, it a it invites more questions. First off, yeah because now it's, well, why'd you hide Why didn't you just call for help?
00:28:22
Speaker
And then that also takes off the, if it was a true, true accident and you didn't mean it at all, why did you you call someone? Ask for help. When the first time it happened, hey, I dropped him. I need him to get booked at. Oh my God, it was an accident.
00:28:38
Speaker
Like there might be questions. Sure. hit it you're 11 week old baby has a broken leg there's gonna be questions but if it was a genuine accident it's gonna be okay and the fact that none of these times it it just is mind-boggling and then when you keep going through these charges they they hit him with everything they could and i'm kind of glad that they did but they hit him with every single thing that they could
00:29:10
Speaker
Yeah. And it's for the best. And he was lying. And it, as much as Jessica is the perpetrator and the ultimate murderer in this case, the only reason that they even had access to Dylan was because Daniel was faking his drug tests and was the sober parent in the household.
00:29:35
Speaker
If he had not been doing that or if he had actually been sober, if he had not been faking his drug test, though, and it was known that he was also using meth, they wouldn't have even had the baby in their custody at all.
00:29:47
Speaker
And he wouldn't have been presumed to be responsible enough to do that. So he enabled the whole situation to happen. He knew because he was going out to get her Coke, going out to get her meth, going out to get her fentanyl, that he knew that she was not in her right mind.
00:30:06
Speaker
And it was not safe and had already harmed Dylan terribly by exposing him to drugs in utero. And there's all of these incidents that are now happening where he's getting hurt.
00:30:18
Speaker
At least two happened prior to his death. And I don't believe that Daniel didn't know about those. And yet he kept leaving the baby with Jessica and kept going out to get more drugs.
00:30:32
Speaker
And so he created this whole situation.
00:30:38
Speaker
Yeah. And again, it all comes back down to drugs. Like it all comes back down to what your priority was. Your priority was not your children either. And I think what what forgetting is there was another kid in this house.
00:30:51
Speaker
And i think what we're also forgetting about is because of how horrible this thing is and how horrible this was, what did that other child go through thus far that got swept under the rug that nobody knew that what he was strong enough to physically or mentally adore?
00:31:11
Speaker
Like, Because the Dylan was killed and Dylan was eventually found in like the process and the case.
00:31:23
Speaker
over time, it will be interesting what is discovered or if it was just part of things that like wasn't eligible in court, what their other child had gone through. Because there's we've talked about cases where like one child gets like zoned in on and not the other.
00:31:42
Speaker
But when you have such drug involvement, like the neglect typically, and then again, not always, goes across the board.
Reflections on Child Protection System
00:31:53
Speaker
Both kids get neglected. Both kids get abused. Both kids. Because again, it's not about the kids. It's about their priority. So it it'd be very curious to know how much this other kid had to suffer through.
00:32:09
Speaker
thank goodness this didn't happen to him.
00:32:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. And I ah feel like he was really, really brave to testify. And you're right. He's probably endured a lot of terrible things just because of his terrible, terrible luck to have parents like this.
00:32:33
Speaker
And I'm sure that
00:32:38
Speaker
He probably saw and heard a lot of things and then probably experienced abuse and neglect himself. And we know that he was being used for his urine to pass these drug tests and was complicit in this terrible, terrible crime, even though, of course, he's just another victim in it and a minor and a child. But it's horrible to have to be involved in something like this.
00:33:02
Speaker
And he also testified that he had seen bruises Dylan's head. um in the weeks leading up to his death and that he had seen the bruises and then they were starting to get better and then Dylan was gone basically and it just even to to know what he knows and to have experienced what he experienced in this situation alone only with Dylan is so heartbreaking and terrible and traumatic so I can't imagine what like the 14 years were like prior to this happening it's super sad and
00:33:38
Speaker
you know It just brings back the whole, like the way the system is set up and how much we, obviously reunification is a really good goal. and I think that that makes sense as like a guiding principle in foster care and child protective services. Like you ultimately, you want children to be able to return to their parents if that's possible or to family if that's possible. But In some situations, it's just really, really, really unsafe. And I don't think that they really demonstrated that they were going to be responsible enough to have Dylan and they probably should have never had him back in their care.
00:34:21
Speaker
And it's just so sad to think that if he had just stayed with his foster mother or had been adopted, like he would have a whole different life and none of this ever needed to happen. And it's, it's, it's so terrible to think that they were fighting to get him back just to kill him.
00:34:43
Speaker
Yeah. And i think that puts things into perspective too. um I think when it comes to CBS, it kind of turns into an attack on you rather than protecting the child.
00:35:03
Speaker
And I think sometimes people think, and this again, pure speculation, i have nothing to back this up. um But when you have your child removed from your home, it's a attack on you as an individual.
00:35:17
Speaker
And how dare they do this to me? Like we heard Jessica, you're ripping apart my family. You're doing this to me. Not, I need to do better. to This is the best thing for my kid.
00:35:32
Speaker
My kid's protected right now while I get my life together. I think, and it's, I need to get this kid back. So again, it's very selfish viewpoints I do think there are probably people out there that like, you know what? Definitely. I need to like get my shit together and do better. But I think a lot of them look at it as them doing it, the state doing it to them, not necessarily the state protecting their kids.
00:35:59
Speaker
And don't get me wrong, the state has its own problems. And I'm trying to separate the two right now because I don't want us to go down a rabbit hole of the state, again, time and time again has had its own problems. But I think in this case, we had a foster parent that was good. We had a foster parent that cared. We had a foster parent that showed that they were taking good care of this kid, advocating the best they could.
00:36:21
Speaker
There was potential for this.
00:36:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's I mean, there's never going to be ah perfect solution, but just, you know rushing him back into this home where he was not ever going to be safe. Like it is so sad when you do think of that across town with a foster family, he could have had a safe, stable life. And that's really what he deserves and what everyone deserves. And he just never, never had a chance at all.
00:37:01
Speaker
So sad.
00:37:04
Speaker
Yeah, it does make me sad. Because again, i i want every little kid to have the best life. And it's not your it's not their fault that they're born into ah drug addicts. Like... Yeah, of course not.
00:37:19
Speaker
It's just the luck of the draw, you know, and sometimes things need to be like, i just by just giving birth to a child or putting sperm in someone to make them give birth to a child does not make you fit and staple parent and...
00:37:40
Speaker
even though kids do deserve i think to be with their biological families as well i do think that that is something that in a perfect world kids do deserve it's just not always in reality going to be like a good or a healthy thing oh 100 it's scary to think yeah like how often does this happen it happens all of the time that
00:38:06
Speaker
ah Yeah, that kids get taken out to taken out temporarily, they get but put back in abusive homes, and then even worse things happen. But we've also, to your point before, we have seen situations where children in foster care or children that had been adopted out of foster care met similar fates, and it comes back to that some people are just really evil. Yeah.
00:38:29
Speaker
And like to abuse and don't care who they hurt or, you know, drugs get the better of them and they act out violently and behave terribly.
00:38:41
Speaker
And I think it's a combination of factors here.
00:38:47
Speaker
I'd agree with that. I would absolutely agree with that.
00:38:52
Speaker
yeah tough topic today um do you have any final thoughts no I don't think I have any final ones that aren't just going to reiterate the same thing ah I'm glad that they got the outcome that they did i think they deserve to have every single year and I hope I hope their cellmates figure out what they did that's going say
00:39:25
Speaker
so Okay. I think that's all very fair. um I did see someone on TikTok that was in prison with Jessica and she said that she is ah major bitch and nobody likes her.
00:39:39
Speaker
And that does make me, that gives me a little comfort. Yeah, it shouldn't, but it does. I'm not surprised. Yeah, I'm not surprised at all. But I also, you know, I don't want to think of her having any kind of cushy experience after what she's done and who she is.
00:39:57
Speaker
So hopefully, you know, everyone's super mean to her in prison for the rest of her life.
00:40:05
Speaker
Go team. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Well, you know, we've said it a million times. Child abusers do not do well in prison.
00:40:16
Speaker
No. Especially a women's prison. Yeah. So, but now, do you have any final thoughts other than our... think that was it. Yeah.
00:40:27
Speaker
Well, thank you for telling me so much about that that I didn't know. um And hopefully our listeners like this one too because it is... It's a sad one for sure, but I think it also flips that side and that language where there is good to the system. I think our system just needs some work.
00:40:45
Speaker
So gives us a little faith on a positive part of it.
00:40:51
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Well, we'll pick up here next week. Until next time.