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Sherri Papini
209 Plays1 month ago
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May contain explicit language and unfounded accusations.
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Transcript
Introduction to Sherry Papini's Disappearance
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome back to the Mothers of All Crime. Today we're going to be talking about Sherry Papini. How are we doing, Crystal? We're good. this is ah This is a weird one, in my opinion, but how are you before we get into it?
00:00:36
Speaker
I'm good. It is a weird one. Sherry's an interesting character. um And I've really enjoyed all of the millions of documentaries that have been made about her. know. Yeah, because each one has a little bit of a different spin, which is nice.
00:00:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different perspectives. And I think that goes consistent with her story, right? Because as time goes, we get different versions.
00:01:03
Speaker
So it kind of makes sense that each documentary or is a new adaptation per se. Yes, definitely. It's been an evolving story, which is always interesting.
00:01:14
Speaker
um And I feel like when people have complex relationships with the truth, you get a lot of different versions of things. And it's hard to know. what to believe, what to be skeptical of.
00:01:27
Speaker
And um I mean, I feel like we might as well start from the beginning of when this came to public attention. So Sherry Papini is married to her husband, Keith Papini.
00:01:40
Speaker
They have two little kids. Sherry... drop the kids off at daycare. She usually picks them up. She um was going for a jog.
00:01:53
Speaker
And when her husband came home from work, he got to the house. Her car is there. She is not there. The kids are not there. He's calling her. She's not answering. He calls the daycare.
00:02:04
Speaker
They say, the kids are here. They haven't been picked up. he thinks that's pretty odd. So he goes out into the woods, goes down to where she usually jogs to see if he can find her. And he finds Sherry's phone, her headphones with her hair wrapped in it on the ground.
00:02:23
Speaker
And he naturally... freaks out. He calls the police. He is terrified.
Media Frenzy over Sherry's Disappearance
00:02:31
Speaker
And it seems that maybe she has been yanked while she was jogging. Something that's similar had happened to a woman that lived in the area a few years before that was jogging, had been abducted. This is where everyone's minds immediately go, especially with the phone and the circumstances.
00:02:51
Speaker
so a full on search ensues for Sherry. And this becomes a massive media story helped, I think, by Sherry's appearance.
00:03:02
Speaker
She's very blonde. She's small. She's thin. There's all of these pictures of her just grinning ear to ear, big white smile. So I think she you know is a young mother. She captured a lot of attention and she's missing for 22 days.
00:03:21
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's the similarity to of every – the meaning of a lot of like SVU Siri episodes is someone of a very similar look running through the park.
00:03:35
Speaker
They get grabbed while they're wearing headphones because your music's probably too loud. Like it's that idea that i think a lot of women can relate to of when you're alone in the middle of the woods, don't have your music too loud. Be aware of your surroundings. Like it's things that I think a lot of people can relate to. So when it the story broke, that's another reason I think it kind of spread because it was – Just another reason why women can't be safe in certain areas.
00:04:07
Speaker
I think it hit home with a lot of people. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that is such a big fear for so many people, women especially, who don't feel comfortable. Yeah.
00:04:18
Speaker
jogging by themselves, going out by themselves, especially at night or whatever. But this is very close to her house. This is in the middle of the day. and apparently she wasn't safe.
00:04:31
Speaker
And that is very, very scary. Keith... keith He obviously doesn't really know what to do in the situation. a lot of suspicion falls on him as well.
00:04:42
Speaker
He is ah main suspect initially because husband is always a suspect. The spouse is always someone that gets questioned. Right. It's always number one. Who else has a motive to get rid of Sherry other than her husband?
00:04:57
Speaker
Although... Things do come to light about their financial situation as this case unfolds, and they had had a post-nuptial agreement. So he doesn't actually need to get rid of her, and there may not be a motive for him to do so, at least not a financial one, because if they separated, Sherry would not be entitled to any money or any equity in their house, the cars. It's all in Keith's name. It's all...
00:05:23
Speaker
In his control, essentially, financially. And they had this post-nuptial agreement because Sherry had had an emotional affair when they were very newly married. So this comes up and it in some ways takes heat off of Keith and in some ways puts it back on him.
00:05:43
Speaker
And the police don't really know what to think of him. And there's no but there's no evidence that he's holding her anywhere or that he she's come to any harm or that he got rid of a body. And his his story for the day seems to be checking out.
00:05:58
Speaker
And in interviews that he does on the news, he does seem very genuinely distraught. But we've seen that a million times also. the crocodile tears on TV, like you don't know what people are, what's really going on.
00:06:12
Speaker
And yeah some people were mentioning that, you know, things weren't all perfect in Keith and Sherry's relationship and they fought a lot and they had a lot of problems and neighbors would hear them screaming at each other. And so it doesn't look great, but he also doesn't have a motive to get rid of her, ah especially not right then.
00:06:36
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that you had the contrary of, like, the neighbors, it seemed very much testimony of mutual fights. Like, it was both of them kind of going at it versus when Sherry's friends were talking about it. It was...
00:06:51
Speaker
he was Keith was the problem. But I think that's also when you're hearing that, you got to remember, like, if it's your friends, you're going to tell them your version. And 99% of people aren't good at taking accountability for their part in things.
00:07:08
Speaker
So her going to her friends being like, he's this terrible person makes sense versus the neighbors giving the story of, oh, no, they were screaming all day makes I'd probably lean towards the neighbor like they both sounded like they were a little bit toxic but versus just Keith being the problem.
00:07:25
Speaker
Sure, definitely. And it it goes back to the overall issue of truth is relative from your perspective. Everyone's living in their own realities and their own thoughts and feelings. And it's not always going to be reflected.
00:07:41
Speaker
Even if you're trying to be honest with your family and friends, you're still not 100 percent honest because you're telling things from your perspective. and it's right hard it's hard to be neutral and especially if you're angry you're upset you're venting you could really make your husband seem like a terrible person whereas to your point the neighbors maybe you're getting a slightly more balanced view because they're just observing as opposed to being given information from a source but regardless people fight it that's not necessarily crazy know if anything if you don't fight at all that also is a problem like yeah and they have two little kids that I mean there's stuff there's always stuff you could fight about there's stressors of everyday life and right no one knows what goes on behind closed doors so
00:08:32
Speaker
but yeah But 22 days later,
Sherry's Mysterious Reappearance
00:08:35
Speaker
she does appear and they do find her. Thanksgiving Day, Sherry reappears on the side of a road ah about 150 miles away from where she lived.
00:08:48
Speaker
She is in terrible shape. covered head to toe in bruises. She has a metal chain around her waist. She's lost about 20 pounds in 22 days. And this is already somebody who is a very, very small petite person.
00:09:05
Speaker
And one of the craziest things is that she has a massive brand on her back as well that has been burned into her skin. And she's got a crazy story to go with it She says that she was abducted at gunpoint by two Hispanic women and kept cost captive for 22 days, beaten, tortured and starved.
00:09:33
Speaker
Yeah. Until they just decided to let her go. Right. That's where it gets bizarre to me because there, when I first started hearing about it, i would be like, okay, you're in California. There's a lot of gang activity in California.
00:09:53
Speaker
You're pretty little housewife and my brain went straight to drugs and okay, you didn't pay because a lot of the cartel and extensions and things like that. Did you not pay your dealer and they decided to like come after you? Like that was where my brain first went personally.
00:10:14
Speaker
I don't know about you. least at this point. At this point. like I guess that could be. don't if that's my initial thought, but I followed it back in the day. So I feel like from 2016, I've been thinking about Sherry.
00:10:30
Speaker
Yeah. I've tried to like think about it from like not hearing the whole story. Because it is very – it sounds very bizarre that you just randomly were abducted by two women on the side of the road for no reason.
00:10:45
Speaker
Like, what's the reason? They're not swiping middle-aged women – Females particularly, you're not swiping middle middle-aged women for no reason. Yeah, and the brand is interesting. It says Exodus on it, which is from the Bible, but it doesn't really make sense in this case.
00:11:08
Speaker
It doesn't really seem to have anything to do with anything else. It's like one of the most random things about the case.
00:11:17
Speaker
Yeah, and the brand itself looks very uneven, think, kind of from the pictures.
00:11:28
Speaker
it doesn't look like it was done with confidence, I guess is the way that I would say it. yeah definitely maybe not an expert I also just looked it up and about five percent of stranger abductions are committed by women it's a very small percentage right family abductions abductions of children custody disputes stuff like that that has much more women involved but stranger abduction it almost never happens
00:12:03
Speaker
Right. So that's why I'm like, there's got, at that point, there has to be something more involved than just a stranger. Yes. And that raises a big question when they find male DNA on Sherry's clothes, because her clothes are collected um Her body is examined, photographed, and she is really beat up bad.
00:12:26
Speaker
But there's male DNA on her clothes and it can't be explained. It doesn't match her husband and there are no men involved in this crime. So where is the DNA from? How is this possible?
00:12:38
Speaker
And it doesn't sit right with the police. They, you know, they spend a very long time trying to figure out what's going on. And in that time, Sherry and her husband are at home.
00:12:52
Speaker
He dies. They go back to their regular life. I mean, Sherry gets some funding from victims funds and, you know, is talking about writing a book and she's in a lot of trauma therapy and having PTSD flashbacks and they're trying to get their lives back together while the FBI is working in the background trying to figure out what actually happened.
Unraveling the Truth: The Ex-Boyfriend's Involvement
00:13:15
Speaker
And they end up finding an old boyfriend of Sherry's interviewing him and a ah fbi agent ended up taking a trash can from his residence and testing it and the dna matched so her ex-boyfriend james dna is on sherry's clothes at the time that she's been found after being held 22 days by two random hispanic women
00:13:47
Speaker
And that's when it kind of all is falling apart for Sherry. And the boyfriend admits it right away. And he he says, she asked me to take her.
00:13:58
Speaker
She asked me to hold her. She asked me to beat her up. She asked me to brand her. And told me what to write.
00:14:09
Speaker
He said that he took hockey sticks and hockey pucks and shot them at her face. Slap them at her face because he couldn't bring himself to like punch her in the face. But this is I mean very very strange. His story is very odd.
00:14:28
Speaker
And even odder Sherry completely denies his involvement involvement in the beginning. Even when they're confronted, her and Keith together are confronted with the DNA evidence.
00:14:41
Speaker
Sherry is like, no, no, that that can't be. That doesn't make sense. ah How could he be involved? Like not i hate admitting to anything. and DNA is one of those things that it's hard to It's hard to argue with. It's hard to refute DNA evidence like that.
00:15:00
Speaker
Right. like They're involved. like if At this point, at least give me a version of how. like There's no question. but Yeah. It's like, you need to explain this better. um So, I mean, at that point, I don't know what you do if you're Keith.
00:15:16
Speaker
I guess you do exactly what he does, which is tell Sherry that We need to get divorced and I'm going to get full custody of the kids because you're going to go to prison for lying about this and wasting police time.
00:15:32
Speaker
Right. Well, I think also a big thing that pushed him there was the fact that the ex-boyfriend also even was saying that some of these injuries were self-inflicted by Sherry.
00:15:46
Speaker
yeah And it's one thing to ask a like your, I guess, affair partner from his perspective to like help you with this rouge. But it's another thing to hit yourself so hard that you're bruising and like things of that nature. Because instinctually, you you don't – like that's going to take serious focus and commitment.
00:16:09
Speaker
i And oh I think from ah spouse's perspective of like, you would be around my children. like if you are capable of doing that to yourself, what are you capable of to do our to our kids?
00:16:23
Speaker
So I, I see where he came from, how quickly he moved on that too. Yeah. I mean, I feel like to hear Sherry tell it, she thinks Keith is like so unreasonable, but he really did the only thing that he could possibly do in reacting to this situation.
00:16:41
Speaker
After,
00:16:44
Speaker
After coping with her trauma for years, like, she doesn't... She got arrested in 2022. And she was fake abducted in 2016. Like, this played out over many, many years him dealing with her.
00:17:03
Speaker
And she's arrested eventually for making false statements, mail fraud, wasting police time. she's She owes a lot of money also.
Legal Consequences for Sherry Papini
00:17:15
Speaker
um She got, like I said before, she got victims funds, but also because the whole thing was determined to be a hoax. The cost of the investigation is her problem now.
00:17:27
Speaker
And it was a full on search and rescue for 22 days. That's very expensive. I feel like honestly, the restitution of 309,000 doesn't even seem like enough to cover what was spent probably in that time period.
00:17:42
Speaker
Yeah, from all the different agencies and that. but Yeah, because she didn't end up also pleading guilty, which I think is another level of that. It wasn't like she went to trial and they found her guilty. She pled guilty.
00:17:56
Speaker
yeah And then received 18 months of prison plus that $309,000 of restitution. i think you're totally right. I think it was probably way more than that. But my guess is at that point, is it worth going for every penny or is it just like a range number. I'm not sure, but think victim, the victim funds would be the priority. And then here's an estimate on like X amount of travel or the search fees and overtime and things like that.
00:18:28
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So Sherry does go to prison and serves her sentence and she has made ah very small amount of repayment on the what she owes.
00:18:42
Speaker
She has no custody of her kids, but it she does get to have visitation with them and phone calls that are supervised by Keith.
00:18:54
Speaker
And i feel like that's pretty much like the best outcome that could have happened for everybody in the situation.
Exploring Sherry's Motivations
00:19:05
Speaker
But i do have some questions and I do have some.
00:19:10
Speaker
can i don't know if it's the right word to say concerns, because Sherry has said in later years that she was so terrified of James and that's why she was not saying that he had abducted her, that he did that they were having an emotional affair.
00:19:27
Speaker
And that but that she did not plan the abduction that she was texting him, that they were going to meet up, that they were planning to have an affair, but that she did not want to be kidnapped by him.
00:19:41
Speaker
And she did not want to be held for 22 days. And she didn't want to be branded and she didn't want to be beaten and all of that stuff, she says, just happened after he already abducted her.
00:19:53
Speaker
And that the only thing she did wrong was starting the emotional affair and then being too scared to tell the truth after being released.
00:20:04
Speaker
And even as I say it, it's just not believable. It's really not believable. so Well, to double down on the reason it's kind of not believable is she then tells a version of Keith that almost the same thing but just with a different man he was this horrible person he was she was afraid for him to find out which is why she made up the story like it you could always say that exact same verbiage and replace it with keith minus a couple things and it's the same version of she would talk about for him so like how can two men be the same reason that you lied which one they both can't be true
00:20:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think blaming two Hispanic women is another reason this was so not believable and gained so much attention. But she also, when she did the...
00:21:04
Speaker
the drawings of the suspects. She described someone who she said looked exactly like James's mom to try to lead the detectives to the correct person.
00:21:16
Speaker
And that is so illogical and so crazy. And I feel like if she had just said a man had abducted her And not said that it was someone that she knew it was her ex boyfriend.
00:21:30
Speaker
When this all came to light later, she could have been like, I was just scared to say who it was. But she kind of screwed herself over saying that it was women and describing them in such detail.
00:21:44
Speaker
And then they just didn't exist. Yeah. i think I think it's really the gender thing. I think that's true. Because like the state of California does a very high like Mexican population, Hispanic population.
00:22:00
Speaker
So saying there's some kind of Hispanic person who abducted you, fine. Again, he even has some, Reyes, some Hispanic in him as well. So it would have connected. But making it multiple people, making it women,
00:22:16
Speaker
you're you're making it, if it is out of fear, you're making it even more difficult for them to actually see what happened.
00:22:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. think that Sherry sometimes seems very believable and she's done so many interviews because we can talk a little bit about the documentaries and there have been many made about this case and there's been a lot of comparisons between this and Gone Girl. That's like a big...
00:22:44
Speaker
media thing and Gone Girl happened prior to this so it it it may have been an inspiration for what was going on here and maybe this was just all a plot and that's what I got from the documentary that Keith was heavily involved in that this was all just a plan and that she was just that she read Gone Girl and she was inspired and she decided to do this very elaborate hoax and then Sherry put out basically a counter documentary making a lot of excuses for herself and a lot of pleas for sympathy, I feel like.
00:23:20
Speaker
And Keith was so mean and terrible to me and i didn't have a way to leave. And, you know, it doesn't, I don't know. I feel like she gets me when she talks though.
00:23:34
Speaker
She seems so genuine when she's talking, but nothing adds up. And I don't know what happened. I don't know if maybe there's somewhere in the middle that there could be truth somewhere in the middle where like perhaps she thought she was just running away with James and things turned violent.
00:23:53
Speaker
But why would he brand her with Exodus unless she was trying to make it look like it's some sort of... ah That part makes no sense to me still. I don't understand.
00:24:04
Speaker
Like I guess it was just to like throw the police off in general. But why Exodus? Yeah. It's not even... And it's not something that ever really gets touched on. I feel like even through the documentary interviews, no one ever asks.
00:24:18
Speaker
like Yeah, they don't ask Sherry anyway. Yeah. But I think but her injuries for me... The more I looked into specifically the injuries, the brandings, the bruises, the marks, the more and more documentation I found of medical professors, law enforcement, for forensic examiners consistently going, these aren't consistent with her original story of things. if this is what her
00:24:50
Speaker
If we go off her original version, the marks on her body don't add up to what she's telling us and the order of things that happen. You have medical professionals saying that there's a very strong belief that they are self-inflicted or ordered to be inflicted because there are, i guess, are patterns on how the bruisings and where they're located and It just continuously made people more and more believe that it just wasn't accurate and it was inconsistent.
00:25:22
Speaker
So even if it was a partial truth, there's more to it that she would have been involved. And just thinking about how painful all of that would be, you have to be so committed to this storyline to endure all that.
00:25:42
Speaker
and I think it's true is like we see these male charismatic leaders a lot where they talk a really good game.
00:25:53
Speaker
And it's interesting when you have a woman doing it kind of to your point. She gets you to believe – you start to believe her the more you listen to her. But it's the same thing we see a lot of the male partners that we have talked about in the past.
00:26:09
Speaker
These charismatic, slightly narcissistic, confident individuals, they can make you believe anything that they say. And I think she has some of those similar characteristics where every time she talks, regardless of the version, because there's been different ones, you believe her when she's talking.
00:26:28
Speaker
And then after the fact, you're like, wait a minute, hold on. i That's exactly it. That's exactly ah I feel like that happened to me during this because I i feel like i i never believe her until she's talking. And then I'm like, wow, what if there's some truth to this?
00:26:47
Speaker
You know, can see how she's such a mindfuck to be around completely. And I think that Sherry... Was i i just I would like to hear your thoughts on what her motivation for this is.
00:27:03
Speaker
Like, why did she do this? If we're going with the theory that this is her plan completely, that this was her idea, that James was just the most agreeable person in the world.
00:27:15
Speaker
Still very bizarre that he participated in this. But let's say because his reasoning is that her husband was so abusive and he needed to help her get away from him, which this did not accomplish.
00:27:28
Speaker
Right. I mean, if you think about like, I guess if we're going under the ah thought process, if it's 100% her, to your point, you, a total stranger, are listening to her story and going, oh my god, wow, that yeah, I can see that.
00:27:45
Speaker
Now imagine that you are someone... and who is having an emotional, a long-term, on-and-off emotional affair with this woman.
00:27:56
Speaker
He loves her and has loved her. She's the one who has left before. So he, like the lovesick little puppy, you're right. He's horrible. Let me do anything I can to help.
00:28:09
Speaker
Like I could see how, if she can convince strangers that this is truth, how easy it would be be convince someone who cares about her and from when they pulled phone records she had been talking to multiple men including Reyes and I think Reyes was just the one that happened to be the most agreeable the most compliant the most manipulative that this was the way that she got attention she got out of whatever i don't know if it was a attention if it was
00:28:47
Speaker
Like I want people to feel sorry. I want the the world to know who I am. I don't know. um But I do think it's just she had the ability to convince someone that they were maybe doing the right.
00:29:03
Speaker
They were helping. I don't know. You know what i mean? i don't know. I go back and forth. Do you think that she was planning to come back the whole time?
00:29:15
Speaker
That's the one that i I just don't know. Because i think i think she was planning to come back, but I don't think she was planning on staying with Keith.
00:29:26
Speaker
I think this was her way of... he was going to leave her because he couldn't handle the trauma that she went through and then she wasn't the bad guy like i was kidnapped i was abused i have all this flashbacks ptsd and then you left do you you so you think she was trying to get rid of keith i think so or do you think she was just trying to change the dynamic between her and keith Oh, interesting view. Like to make him more of a caregiver for her.
00:30:02
Speaker
Like because she's so fragile and she's been so harmed and so abused. And how could you leave? Maybe he wanted to leave her. Maybe she thought that he was going to leave her and they had the post snub.
00:30:14
Speaker
So she would have been screwed financially. she wasn't working. She had gotten, something happened with her job. It seems a little vague to me when It's mentioned. But she had been working for... i think it was AT&T.
00:30:27
Speaker
And something happened and she's not working there anymore. And she had like a decent amount of severance. And so she wanted to do the stay-at-home mom thing for a little bit.
00:30:39
Speaker
Fine, fine, fine. But she still wanted to send the kids to daycare. And Keith didn't like that. Didn't think it was necessary. If she's going to be home, then why do the kids need to go to daycare? And I personally...
00:30:52
Speaker
Don't have an opinion on that. Like if you can't afford for them to go to daycare, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't think anyway, like just because you don't work doesn't mean you have to be the stay at home mom. If you can financially swing it And some people can't handle being home all day with like little toddlers and maybe, ah maybe there was, maybe there's other things that she was trying to accomplish in a day.
00:31:13
Speaker
It does seem a little weird though that you're not working anymore and the kids are still going to daycare. Yeah, because daycare is expensive.
00:31:24
Speaker
And I think that is – and I think you're right. like If you even can afford it go for it. Like one or two days a week, give mom the mom a break. But I do also look at if you lost your income, one of your incomes, you now have to alter your life financially and your kids are still going to daycare, which is – for two kids, you're looking at over $1,000 month. Easy.
00:31:50
Speaker
why Yeah. Versus staying home with them. Like, I get it. You need a break. 100% agree. But i think that's a lot of the reason why some women stay home is because from a financial perspective, it's your whole paycheck is going to go to the daycare anyway.
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah. i But I think that perhaps she wanted a different kind of lifestyle than she felt Keith was providing. Like if she wanted to be, she wanted to just not work.
00:32:24
Speaker
It's not that she wanted to be a stay at home mom. She wanted to just not work. And she didn't want to have responsibilities, which, okay, but you do have little kids. And I feel like perhaps she thought that Keith's expectations of her were a little too high.
00:32:42
Speaker
And that she wasn't meeting his expectations. And whether that was just annoying to her or whether she was worried he was going to leave her. Maybe she thought something this dramatic would kind of change his perspective on it. And it's like, well, of course she can't go back to work. Of course she can't be watching the kids full time. She's traumatized.
00:33:02
Speaker
She survived an abduction. She was held hostage for 22 days and beaten senseless.
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think I ever thought of their perspective of... Didn't want to be stay-at-home mom. Didn't want to work. Just wanted to live her best life. I don't think I had thought of that perspective. But it's a good viewpoint.
00:33:23
Speaker
I just don't know what else. Because she didn't leave Keith. You know what I mean? like she did She asked for him immediately when she came back also. And like fell into his arms and refused to speak to anybody without him present.
00:33:36
Speaker
But again, plays that. you're my hero kind of mentality. And I think you're right. Like the post-nup has a huge play where if I'd be curious, I wish we could read the post-nup. Like I'd be curious if the clause is like, if she was found with an emotional affair and he divorced her, she gets nothing.
00:34:01
Speaker
But if he divorced her, for irreparable differences, i wonder if she would get something. Like, I wonder if it's just how... Because you know how like, every prenup or postnup has their clauses of if this happens, then this happens?
00:34:16
Speaker
I'd be curious if it needed to be him to do the divorce for her to get something. That could Because she had the emotional affair, which caused the postnup.
00:34:30
Speaker
And she's clearly having one again. potentially more than one, depending on what version you read. oh If she then has this horrific experience and then can't be the doting wife or the loving mother or whatever that he can't handle, but whatever the case is, and they end up getting divorced, if that nullifies the post. You know what? I'm curious if one of the clauses was
00:35:02
Speaker
something on who initiated
00:35:06
Speaker
yeah or if maybe it's just like if there's a divorce for reasons that are not infidelity maybe that right maybe she would still be entitled to something um i don't know because i feel like she was always planning to come back because the way that her injuries were.
00:35:30
Speaker
It's not like she was just on vacation with her boyfriend for three weeks and then on the last day she asked him to beat her up so that she would look like she had really been suffering.
00:35:41
Speaker
her Her bruises and her branding and so like it was in like multiple stages of healing. She had been very very hurt many times over that time period that she was gone.
00:35:54
Speaker
And she didn't lose 20 pounds in 22 days. but Living normally. You know what I mean? She wasn't. She was not eating. She was not seeing sunlight. She was locked in his house. And she was beaten or beating herself like every day basically that she was gone.
00:36:14
Speaker
And I just it's like hard for me to imagine the mindset that she had to have during that time period to keep that going. Also, why she came back when she did, i don't really understand either. It was Thanksgiving, and I kind of think she just wanted the attention didn't want to miss the holiday.
Custody Battle and Family Dynamics
00:36:33
Speaker
Maybe. Well, I think there's also one more twist that we haven't mentioned yet that, again, th throws a wrench in whatever theory we have.
00:36:49
Speaker
is that recently she backtracked again
00:36:56
Speaker
and is back on this version of events where there was this big extravagant event thing and this is where she starts kind of blaming more keith than reyes and she was telling the truth the first time and she's doing interviews with basically trying to fight for her children and that Keith needs to love his children more than how much he hates her and just like give her back the kids because the first story that she told was true so now we have someone who's flip-flopping again for what the third fourth time
00:37:37
Speaker
why it kind of adds to the complexity of how stable are you if you're now getting a new version again 2016 to present we have another it she's not letting it go
00:37:55
Speaker
yeah and i could see if i was sherry i would continue to fight to try to get the kids back too probably but she just really doesn't have any any legs to stand on i don't think I think Keith's going retain full custody and yeah that's probably just how it is.
00:38:21
Speaker
And yeah. because I wonder what the kids think. Yeah. But like what judge in their right mind is like if if there's the slightest chance that she did do this all to herself and she was the orchestrator, why would you ever risk putting two children in a home alone with someone who's capable of that?
00:38:45
Speaker
Yeah, it just wouldn't happen. And she has a record. She pled guilty. like there's no, there's really no wiggle room. Like, she's convicted. She's a convicted liar.
00:38:58
Speaker
And, but she still, she acts so indignant when she talks about all of this. Like, Keith is so ridiculous for taking the kids away and that she's entitled to them. I think that's mostly what it is. Is that she's very entitled. How dare him?
00:39:11
Speaker
Yeah. How dare he try to protect his children? right exactly that's i would love to hear the kids perspective i do feel like all of these documentaries have done a pretty good job not focusing on the kids there's no pictures of them they don't say their names it's i think that's good we shouldn't be able to recognize them it's all right they already have such a right standout name
00:39:41
Speaker
Right. And the reality is as they get older, they're going to have to deal with their consequences. And anybody local to them knows it's them. Like, I'm glad that the – and honestly, it's probably mostly Keith. Like, if – from the way that Cherry presents herself, if she had her way, I bet the kids would be involved.
00:40:01
Speaker
Like, the kids would be – I think so, too. doing interviews, the kids would... And again, I think it's another reason why she's not going to get them back is he is doing his best to like hide his children from the media, let them be as normal as they can be considering the circumstances.
00:40:20
Speaker
And these kids themselves are going to have a lot of trauma because they had this version of mommy went through this really terrible thing. Okay. Mommy lied. Now mommy's in prison, but mommy's back again. And now saying something else happened and dad's hor like the poor things are like going to have They're going to need someone's therapy from their own involvement or just proximity to the situation. And nothing, like no harm has gone directly to them that we know of.
00:40:51
Speaker
But just being around all of that is going to cause damage.
00:40:59
Speaker
Yeah. Although I feel like Keith tries to say now that Sherry was abusing the kids because there was like a couple little things that Or basically if they were sick, she would take like a bag, like a Ziploc bag of alcohol and like put it on their chest or like under saran wrap or something. She says that it was like an an alternative to Vic's VapoRub.
00:41:22
Speaker
But I feel like in Keith's version, it's like that she's trying to poison the kids. I wonder though, if he has other concerns about her and like what she would do if she was unsupervised with the kids. Yeah.
00:41:37
Speaker
And I agree. I think if she's willing to do this hoax, like she'd be willing to do anything.
00:41:47
Speaker
Right. And again, how would you, you can't risk something. like These kids lives are way more important than your opinion. Right.
00:41:58
Speaker
And I also think at that point, Like the kids typically are asked, like, what do you do you want to see? So your parents, like, what are your, like, they don't necessarily listen, but they do ask the children in custody cases a lot of the time.
00:42:12
Speaker
And it's normally done in private. So for all we know, these kids are sitting there like, please don't send me back to my mother. And that's a contributing factor. That could be.
00:42:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. I don't know. I just think that there's a lot of weird motivations going on with Sherry. Yeah, I think there's layers. she mostly just wanted the attention. think she read John Girl and was like, ooh, great idea.
00:43:16
Speaker
Right. And I also think she had this image that she wanted to protect. Because if you look at the men that she dated... Like from a purely outside society beauty standpoint, she's she's beautiful.
00:43:37
Speaker
She's thin. She's blonde. She's charismatic. And her husband is tall, muscular. Like they had this perfect little image And that tended to be her type.
00:43:54
Speaker
But Reyes, because when I was looking through a bunch of pictures of like current boyfriends, ex-boyfriends, didn't fit the pattern. He seemed kind of like the outlier. You know what i mean?
00:44:07
Speaker
It's interesting that he was the one that she kept kind of pulling along.
00:44:14
Speaker
Right. Well, I think that. if you're If you're dating Sherry, you're always kind of dating Sherry. And then she'll just keep you on the back burner.
00:44:26
Speaker
To recycle when she needs you. That's the vibe I get anyway. And I think she was always having emotional affairs. Again, it's an attention thing. Right. Like, I have my option, but is there someone... Always looking, is there something better?
00:44:41
Speaker
Right? Because there's pictures of her like, private jets and elaborate parties. And, like, it definitely seemed like she wanted to be, like, keeping up with the Joneses, even though, like they lived comfortably, but they definitely didn't live, like, this elaborate, crazy Hollywood lifestyle.
00:45:03
Speaker
Yeah. Definitely not. I think that...
00:45:08
Speaker
She wanted a different kind of lifestyle. She wanted a different kind of marriage. She wanted to be a victim. And that's why she did all of this.
00:45:22
Speaker
Yeah. Do you, so in a more recent, my, my question for you would be in one of the more recent videos, interviews that her ex-husband was a part of.
00:45:35
Speaker
They kind of dove into, do you have contact with Sherry? Would you ever have contact with her again? Because she has this pattern of getting rid of men, but them coming back.
00:45:47
Speaker
And he seems, the words coming out are, i would never have contact with her. But his facial expression seems very numb.
00:45:59
Speaker
Like he doesn't totally believe it. You know what i mean? Do you think that there's potential for eventually her coming back to the family and children?
00:46:16
Speaker
I don't I don't think publicly i i wouldn't be surprised if maybe they like hooked up or something, you know, but I don't think that he would like actually fully get back together with her or like let her move in or anything.
Analyzing Sherry's Personality Traits
00:46:29
Speaker
I hope not. But again, she and when you start talking to her, she's she's convincing. Yeah. I mean, she's very manipulative. But i I don't think he could do ah that publicly.
00:46:43
Speaker
It would just be the negative attention he would get for that. I don't think it would be worth it.
00:46:52
Speaker
Yeah. But you know, she would make it public. That's the thing. Like, you know, he tried to keep her quiet. He like made a mistake. She'd be like, nope, gotta tell everybody now because look it.
00:47:05
Speaker
She would tell everyone, which is why i I think that might be enough of a reason for him not to do it.
00:47:13
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that was everything kind of I had. Is there any other thoughts or like opinions you have on Sherry? think so i think we kind of covered it it's a weird case but i always i don't know i always find her fascinating
00:47:32
Speaker
i agree and i think the fact that she continues to bring it up again is where it gets interesting for me because this happened almost 10 years ago and we're still getting I don't want to say updates, but versions of But kind of.
00:47:52
Speaker
So I'll be curious what the next next version is. Because if she's saying it's all true again, it's going to open it again. Right. Like, I wonder if it's done now or if there'll be more.
00:48:07
Speaker
um out Maybe there's a third guy involved. Next thing we know, it's going to be because Ray is also the minute that she brought up the he was the one I'm afraid of. He hasn't commented since.
00:48:22
Speaker
hu So I'd be curious if there another player maybe that we just don't know about. be. Could be.
00:48:34
Speaker
could be I don't think anybody else will get charged for anything though. You know what I mean? Like everything is just on Sherry the end of the day because she's like the mastermind of it in, in the view of the police, which I, I mean, if I was and investigator on this case, I don't think I would entertain him for a second that Sherry could be telling the truth after literally looking for her body in the woods for weeks.
00:48:56
Speaker
Um, it's just, yeah, it just screams of like someone who is so obsessed with themselves and That maybe she just wanted to watch the search for herself.
00:49:12
Speaker
Yeah, because there is speculation that she was like watching the news about herself while she was with Reyes before. know she was.
00:49:24
Speaker
Yeah. A hundred percent. She was probably glued to the DV. Yeah. In between self beatings. Someone who's so narcissistic though.
00:49:35
Speaker
The way that Sherry is. like that It would be i think exhilarating for her. To watch the coverage of the search. And people crying and freaking out. I'm sure. Especially Keith. he gave He was crying in interviews. He was genuinely distraught and heartbroken.
00:49:52
Speaker
and I'm sure she loved that. And I wonder if kind of like Gone Girl. If she was sort of considering going back to him. Because of how he was acting while she was missing. Like maybe the plan changed a little bit.
00:50:05
Speaker
And she was planning to. Maybe. Kill herself run away. um i really not sure. But. Watched him on TV and was like. Aw he does care about me. oh that's it.
00:50:20
Speaker
Yeah maybe. Maybe. ah Maybe the plan evolved. but The only reason I think. That she was always planning to go back to Keith. Was because of. how many injuries she had that were ah most that were already healing if if she had not been harmed up until the last day that she was being held or something like that i would it would seem like the plan like it wasn't the plan the whole time to fake this as a kidnapping it would be like more of oh well I just went away with my boyfriend and I didn't realize everybody was gonna freak out so much right mm-hmm
00:51:00
Speaker
But I kind of think she always did it and it was always planning to go back dramatically.
00:51:07
Speaker
Yeah, I guess the, I don't know. I guess we'll wait until the next version comes out when she she tells us why she did it. All right. Well, till next week.
00:51:19
Speaker
Until next time. All right. Bye.