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109. Navigating Different Seasons in Parenthood; Empty Nesters- With Dara Kurtz
84 Plays3 years ago
Dara Kurtz is the creator of the popular blog crazyperfectlife.com, with over 180,000 followers from around the world. After going through breast cancer 6 1/2 years ago, she quit her job as a financial advisor, launched her blog, and wrote her first book Crush Cancer. Her second book just released, I am My Mother’s Daughter: Wisdom on Life, Loss, and Love, It is all about the connection between mothers and daughters, how the loss of her mom impacted her life, and how to be intentional about growing relationships to create a more meaningful life. Dara is a speaker, workshop leader, and coach, and loves sharing her journey to help and inspire others. She lives in Lewisville, North Carolina, with her husband and daughters, loves spending time in nature, and practicing Kundalini yoga.
This is the second time I have Dara on the podcast! This time we chat about the transition of her and her husband becoming empty nesters, as both their daughters are now in college.
This is a sesson in parenting that we all go through, and there can be a range of emotions in this new stage.
Connect with Dara Kurtz: https://crazyperfectlife.com/
Listen to the other podcast I recorded with Dara
https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/podcast/episode/c2d52bdf/49-the-power-of-handwritten-letters-with-dara-kurtz
Connect with Kendra Rinaldi: https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
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Transcript
Evolving Relationship with Daughter Zoe
00:00:01
Speaker
We're in a different season of our relationship, and especially with my older daughter, Zoe. I mean, we're in a completely different season of our relationship, and I love it. Like, it's so fun. I'm not gonna say I'm not their mom, because I'm always gonna be their mom. And even though, in some ways, we're more friends, I'm still gonna give them advice. I'm still gonna tell them what I think they need to hear, even if it isn't what they wanna hear. I'm never gonna stop, because they need me to be their mom.
00:00:31
Speaker
but it's a little bit lighter in terms of the daily nagging, if you will. Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast.
Podcast Introduction
00:00:50
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:06
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host.
Transition to Empty Nest with Dara Kurtz
00:01:20
Speaker
Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:29
Speaker
So this year I've been so lucky that now after two years of having the podcast I sometimes get to have some of the guests I've had in the past come back and onto the podcast because things in life change and therefore there are more things to add to these conversations. So today is one of those times we have
00:01:54
Speaker
Dara Kurtz on the podcast today. We had her episode. Oh my goodness. Has it been almost two years, Dara? It has. I know. Time is like all kind of confusing right now, isn't it? I know it is, right? It's just so weird. So she is the author of a blog called Crazy Perfect Life and as well as the author, that was like
00:02:21
Speaker
She's the author of a book. She's the creator of the blog, Crazy Perfect Life, and the author of I Am My Mother's Daughter, Wisdom on Life, Loss and Love. Our first podcast was talking about the death of her mom.
00:02:37
Speaker
This podcast interview is going to be of a whole other topic of grief, which is regarding how it is to be empty nesters now with your daughters being off to college. So welcome, Dara.
00:02:53
Speaker
Hi, thank you for having me. It's such a joy to see you again. And this time, last time, I think we only heard each other. We didn't have the video. Yeah. And life is so funny, because after I shared your podcast, we realized we had a friend in common that we didn't know before.
00:03:12
Speaker
We have Mari that we share in comments. So that's so funny. Yeah, all these connections. So Dara share with us about your life. Where do you live? Just in case people haven't heard your other episode, they can hear a little bit about you.
00:03:28
Speaker
I live in North Carolina and I live with my husband, John. We've been married for over 25-ish years and we have two daughters.
Family Dynamics and College Transitions
00:03:38
Speaker
Our youngest went to college this past August and our oldest is a senior in college. So we are officially empty nesters, started that in August and it's been a really interesting time, which I look forward to sharing with you.
00:03:53
Speaker
Well, I can't wait. Yeah, so tell us about them. Are you okay sharing their names or something? Yeah. The whole life is already out there. Absolutely. Yes, right. Okay, so the one that graduated first, the one that's now looking basically already in her next chapter of career life, basically, soon. Yeah. My oldest daughter, Zoe, is a senior in college, and she actually, this past weekend, we went and looked for apartments with her.
00:04:23
Speaker
She'll be graduating in May, and she'll be staying in North Carolina. So that's amazing. She'll be two hours from here. So, of course, I was like, I wish you were just an hour away like you are now. But anyway, I mean, two hours is, you know, that's such a blessing. And then our youngest daughter, Avi, started her freshman year in college. So, yeah, it's...
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah, so first you had to deal with one leaving and then adjusting to that. And then what, three years later was when Avi went to school? Is that about the difference? Okay. So let's talk about when Zoe graduated from high school and that first transition of not completely being empty nesters, but that aspect of, okay, here we are, family of four.
00:05:10
Speaker
and five with the dog, but family of four. And now all of a sudden it shifts to three and how that dynamic changed.
00:05:22
Speaker
It's interesting because my family, well, first of all, my family is super close. Um, I mean, we just laugh that like sometimes we're, we feel like we're abnormally close. I mean, we really do share a lot, you know, with family group chat going all day long. I probably talk to them, you know, at least once a day. Um, so when Zoe went, it was definitely obviously a big change for our family, but we, we still had Avi here and,
00:05:51
Speaker
I honestly feel like while it was really hard for John and I, you know, the pandemic hadn't hit. So we were out kind of living our lives. If you will, we were, you know, busy and, um, and it, it was almost harder for Avi to be an only child in our house. And so she would like, she would go into Zoe's room and sit on her bed and she would just like sob. Oh my God, I miss Zoe so much. I,
00:06:19
Speaker
do not like being the complete focus of, you know, she didn't like being the sole focus of John and I. And so we almost like really tried to figure out what we could do to help Avi kind of navigate through that. So that sort of made it a little bit easier, A, because we still had Avi in the house, and B, because, you know, we were having Avi's friends over for dinner, so it wasn't like dinner, just the three of us.
Grief and Letters from the Past
00:06:46
Speaker
We tried to kind of think of ways that we could
00:06:49
Speaker
make it feel a little bit more manageable, if you will, for Avi. And so, and we didn't have the pandemic. And so it was just, it was hard, but she was only an hour away and she was so happy and
00:07:03
Speaker
Yes, there were a lot of tears, but it felt very different than it did this time when Avi went to school, when Avi went to school in August. Well, first of all, like the whole summer before I would have like, it was the theme with my therapist. It was like, I kept telling her, I'm like, when I close my eyes, I see like this middle age woman walking around in her robe with her glasses on.
00:07:32
Speaker
crying because she's like goes in and out of the clean rooms of her home. And she's just alone all day. And, you know, that was kind of like what I was visualizing. And of course, it sounds like it sounds like an entry of your next of a next book. Right. My therapist is like, there's a lot there, Dara. But I mean,
00:07:56
Speaker
Basically, so I was like really had a lot of anticipatory anxiety about what this is gonna look like and so Had a lot of you know, it was like the theme of my counseling sessions for a good quarter if you will but then it's like when we took Avi she was so happy and
00:08:19
Speaker
She was only going, she went to where Zoe was. We thought she was going to end up going to school in New Orleans. And then, thank God, that didn't happen. And so, it was kind of like, all right, I feel so grateful that she's close by. Are they in college? They're in the same college. Yeah, they're really close. And it's been a beautiful year, even though it's just been amazing.
00:08:44
Speaker
It was really hard and I wrote an article and I shared it on social media about how I was really missing my mom a lot during this time when Avi was about to leave and then when we took her and I was just like thinking about my mom a lot like what it felt like when I went to school and I went so far away and just all of those things were just kind of like hitting me.
00:09:12
Speaker
So it's like it opened up even just a whole other chapter of your grief. Let's talk a little bit about that in case somebody listening has not heard your other chapter. The other chapter, the other podcast. So your mom share a little bit of when your mom passed away and then also of how basically it was almost like 20 years later pretty much of you dealing with a lot of that just so that people can relate to that.
00:09:41
Speaker
I found out the same weekend that I found out I was pregnant with Zoe, my first child, the same weekend I found out my mom had reoccurring melanoma, which is a deadly form of skin cancer. And so my mom passed away a few weeks before I had Zoe, excuse me, a few weeks after I had Zoe, my mom passed away. And so I found myself in this space having, you know, this beautiful new baby.
00:10:05
Speaker
and not having my mom and I was just devastated and I did not know how to navigate that. And we didn't have these podcasts. We didn't have these grief platforms. I felt like I was literally completely by myself. The only person in my friend group had lost their mom and I just, I missed her so much and I did not know what to do.
00:10:26
Speaker
to get to navigate through that grief and so you know I distracted myself I threw myself into raising my daughter and then we eventually had another daughter but I always say like grief followed me around like my shadow because it was always there and then
00:10:44
Speaker
Did you know it was, did you know it was grief? Isn't it interesting? Like when we're not aware, like, why am I so sad? And yet not knowing that that is, once you label it, it's so different, right? Once you know, oh, it's grief. It's different, right? Oh, this is why I feel sad and angry and cry and alone. And yeah, we, I didn't know at all.
00:11:11
Speaker
And so then I kind of, you know, obviously went through life and when I was 42, I went through breast cancer, which triggered just so much of what I had seen with my mom. And that was terrifying for me to watch my daughters watch me go through that because I mean, obviously it was a very different scenario than with my mom, but nevertheless, it was terrifying.
00:11:32
Speaker
And then around the 20th anniversary of my mom's death, I happened to remember that I had a bag of letters in my house, letters that were written to me when I first went to sleep away camp when I was nine until I graduated from college, written mostly by my mom and my two grandmothers. And finally one night after realizing that I had this bag of letters,
00:11:57
Speaker
And I didn't have the courage to open the bag when I found the bag. So a little bit of time went by, but finally one night I thought, you know what? I want to know what they say. And I sat on the couch, started reading the letters, felt like I was having a conversation with my mom, got to know her better. Um, from my adult perspective, I sort of got a glimpse into what it was like when she was raising her kids, my brother and I, and it was the biggest gift ever, but it also,
00:12:26
Speaker
completely changed my life. It helped me make kind of find peace if you will or let go of a lot of the grief and see it all a little bit clearer and just taught me so much about life and love and loss and you know all the things.
Maintaining Connection Through Letters
00:12:43
Speaker
So that was amazing. And that was the catalyst to then writing your book. That's what caused me to write my book. I was just like, this feels like a book. I was working on a different project at the time. And I literally was just like, I am just going to sit down and start writing. And I put the other project away. And I mean, I'm so proud of I am my mother's daughter. And, you know, that was before the pandemic hit. And before our country was
00:13:11
Speaker
just flooded with grief and loss and wanting to know how we can connect more. So it's almost like the themes of the book really are what we need now, but I didn't know any of that was going to happen when I wrote it. I just wrote from my heart.
00:13:28
Speaker
that, yeah, the timing of it and the importance of these documents, just something said, documenting these conversations and how that then also became part of how you then raised your daughters to write with the journey you guys write in the journals. So would you share a little bit about that? And then now how has that aspect of your conversation? And I'm wondering if that's why it also
00:13:56
Speaker
you missed your mom a lot too. And if all these kind of memories of when you were in college writing back to your mom, all that kind of came up as well as the girls were going away. That's a great question. So when my daughters were little, we started what we call mother daughter journals. And I would write to my daughter Zoe and I had a journal for her and I would put it on her pillow.
00:14:18
Speaker
And she would read it and then whenever she felt like it, she would write back to me and put it on my pillow. And then I had one for Avi and the same. And so it was just really, you know, super sweet and very innocent. And I use it to boost their self-esteem or we would work out drama, if you will, just, you know, whatever was going on. But there were, there were no rules. We just sort of did it. So yes, when I remember when Zoe went to school, I gave her a journal, like,
00:14:46
Speaker
when she when I went to leave, I was like, here's a new mother daughter journal and
00:14:53
Speaker
you can send this back to me through the mail and blah, blah, blah. And of course I've never received that journal back, right? That's what four years later. Yeah. I mean, it's, but I think what that shows is like a half naive. I was, but also, I mean, I just didn't know like what I didn't know what it was going to look like. And I was just like wanting so much to keep our connection. But, um, I did start writing her letters when she was in college and,
00:15:21
Speaker
She loves the letters and keeps them. And I definitely have, you know, try to write Avi. I try to like sit down and write them each a letter pretty frequently. I mean, maybe a few times a month, ideally, sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't, and that's okay. And I don't get letters back from them. I'm not doing it to get, I'm doing it to kind of just, it makes me feel good to have that connection, but I mean, we do,
00:15:50
Speaker
Thank goodness technology, right? Like I'm able to fit, they FaceTime me when they're walking to class or walking back from class or flat ironing their hair. That's kind of when we talk. And so I don't feel like I'm not in their lives. And that's right.
00:16:05
Speaker
That part of what you're saying too of the part that you're sending it mainly like for yourself but it's also you know for them to know how much you love them but because you have seen the significance of those letters in your life now as an adult opening and finding these beautiful messages and kind of thinking back of like okay where what did my mom
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah, go through when I was in college, right? And what it so for them to now have these treasures as well that they will one day open a bag of ziploc letters. I was doing an event with Zoe just via zoom with the book and Avi was still living at home when we were doing this event. So Avi was like right next to me and Zoe was in
00:16:53
Speaker
her dorm room in college and she pulled down. She's like, I saved every letter that my mom sends me and she pulled down the box and she's like, here's my box of letters. And I didn't know that she was saving them until that moment. And I was just like, I love, you know, of course that made me so happy.
00:17:09
Speaker
It's so beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. It's a legacy because yes, you're right. The convenience of FaceTime, the convenience of texting. I leave so many voice texts sometimes too, but then it's like, those aren't going to stay. They don't get saved. I mean, how many times have I like
00:17:26
Speaker
thought, Oh, I love this picture. I want to print it. I never, I'm pretty much never get it printed or, Oh, I'll screenshot. This is a super sweet text. I want to always have it. Okay. Well, I have no idea where that is. It's lost in the thousands of screenshots that are, you know what I'm saying? Like the letter. Yeah. I get a letter or someone receives a letter and I don't get that many letters that I want to keep. So I know where to keep that. And I know where they always are. And I just
00:17:54
Speaker
I do feel like it's a really beautiful way to connect with people. It feels good to sit down and write a letter. I've heard from a lot of people that have listened to podcasts and events that I've done.
00:18:10
Speaker
I feel like every time I hear from someone, they're like, I tried it, and I'm so glad I did.
Prioritizing Family Post-Cancer
00:18:16
Speaker
It felt good to write a letter, but the person who received it was so surprised, and that made me so happy. So it's such a win. Yeah, it is a win, and it's just such a beautiful way of showing we've taken the time. When I was younger, my grandmother would always send us birthday cards, and I'd always be like, man, we lived in Colombia, and she lived here in the States.
00:18:38
Speaker
So, the thought that goes into sending something that you are going to receive when it's your birthday, and you're like in another country, that you have to time when that's even going to arrive. I sometimes remember it's somebody's birthday on that day. I always remember it on that day. On that day. So, I'm like, I can't send a letter today or a card today. No, the mail is slow. Oh, yeah. My family knows.
00:19:06
Speaker
birthday gifts usually when I mail them like way past their birthdays. So yeah, it takes a lot of thought. So that person receiving it really, really knows there was thought and love put into something like that. Okay, so let's go back now into then, Avi then leaving for college last August. And now really, you and john are empty nesters. How is this chapter of
00:19:29
Speaker
Because how how many years were you guys married when you guys started your family? Like how many years with this just the two of you? Yeah, that's a good question. We were married for over five years before we had kids and so But you kind of forget like what that life felt like Because you sort of get boggled down and raising your kids and life and being busy and you know all the things and then You know with the pandemic
00:19:59
Speaker
Like, you know, we all thought the pandemic was over with over the summer and, you know, we were hoping and things were looking really good. And then Avi went to school in August and it was almost like a, you know, a light switch. And then things got really bad again. And so I found myself like in my house.
00:20:20
Speaker
by myself a lot, like more than I've ever been in my whole life because John works downtown and I'm a writer, I'm working on two books, like I work from home. And so it's been a really interesting learning experience for me in terms of getting comfortable
00:20:42
Speaker
being alone, getting comfortable with the silence, but I'm really happy. And, you know, that's been the biggest surprise is that I'm not walking around in my robe crying.
00:21:00
Speaker
Not roaming the rooms of my house, you know, crying and feeling like, where did my life go? I'm not, I'm not doing that. I'm, you know, I'm feeling like, okay. Um, I'm trying to stay in the gratitude space. Like I'm so grateful for my life and my health and, um, just how close I am with my daughters. I mean, that has been so, such a joyful,
00:21:26
Speaker
this has been such a joyful time in terms of like even getting closer with them. Um, and then, but I have a routine and I have to have my routine because a little bit of structure is a good thing. And that's been something that I've sort of kind of had to play around with if you will. And then just trying to figure out like how I can connect with people
00:21:51
Speaker
but we're around my in-laws a lot. So we felt like we still had to be really careful. And so like reminding myself that this is not gonna last forever. And like, what does that all look like? So it's been interesting.
00:22:07
Speaker
That is awesome. I'm thinking as to how it is you feel and the being happy, even though it's something that is different and a big change. And I'm wondering if some of those emotions also come from the fact of the relationship itself you have with your girls.
00:22:28
Speaker
absolutely wondering right right because you still maintain that connection like it doesn't feel like you're like they're gone you don't see them you know connect because they still communicate with you and wondering too if a lot of times when these big chapters happen if we
00:22:43
Speaker
if there's this aspect of regret at times two of like, Oh, man, I wish I would have done more with my kids when they were home, I wish I would have tucked them to bed more often, I wish I would have. So if there's not this regret, and I wish I would have type of thing I I'm if that is an easier transition at times. I think that there
00:23:08
Speaker
absolutely could be that I wish I would have blah, blah, blah, because I think it's human nature to feel like, okay, what could I have done better or, you know, blah, blah, blah. But I mean, I will say it's been almost eight years since I went through breast cancer. And after going through that, it kind of completely changed my whole entire perspective. And I feel like I really showed up to my daughter's lives.
00:23:37
Speaker
like on a day-to-day basis and I definitely was not like a perfect parent at all but I feel like I was just being really connected with them and to them that level of priority just sort of even increased even more and so
00:23:54
Speaker
I don't feel like, you know, some people say like, Oh, where did the time go? I don't, I never once thought, where did the time go? Because I actually know where the time went. The time went with us sitting at the kitchen table and, you know, eating dinner together or arguing together or, you know, whatever we were doing, because it wasn't always, you know, rainbows and sunshine. I mean, we definitely were, we're a normal family and we have,
00:24:20
Speaker
arguments just like everyone else, especially when Avi was a senior in high school and the pandemic was going on. And we had a lot of conflict that year because of what I wouldn't allow her to do to keep our family safe. But, um, you know,
00:24:36
Speaker
So I never felt like where did the time go? I didn't have that regret. And I do truly believe that that was like a really big benefit. That's one of the something goods that came from going through breast cancer because it kind of like helped us reframe our priorities at a time when the kids were 11 and 14. So, um, I never felt that loss of when they went to school.
Deeper Relationships in New Season
00:25:03
Speaker
I still felt really connected to them in some ways.
00:25:07
Speaker
it was a little bit of a surprise how I feel like my relationship with my daughters has gotten even stronger. And that is actually a surprise because I feel like I'm not like nagging Avi to take her laundry up or what time are you going to be home or who are you blah, blah, blah. Like there's no micromanagement now. And so now it's just kind of like,
00:25:31
Speaker
We're in a different season of our relationship, and especially with my older daughter Zoe. I mean, we're in a completely different season of our relationship, and I love it. Like, it's so fun. I'm not gonna say I'm not their mom, because I'm always gonna be their mom. And even though, in some ways, we're more friends, I'm still gonna give them advice. I'm still gonna tell them what I think they need to hear, even if it isn't what they wanna hear. I'm never gonna stop, because they need me to be their mom.
00:26:01
Speaker
But it's a little bit lighter in terms of the daily nagging, if you will. Isn't that like role? It's one of those things that I the nagging part that I.
00:26:17
Speaker
I can say this, I really despise about my role as a mom. It's like one of those things I'm like, man, I really wish I didn't nag yet. And it's like I yet I still like do it. And it's so true. It creates this tension and this like what you mentioned of micromanaging our kids that
00:26:37
Speaker
It doesn't sometimes allow for further connection because we're in this role of, you know, do this, do that, do this. So what you're saying right now of that not really being there that then it, you know, allows them space, space for the real connections and, oh, I'm looking now it makes me look forward to that chapter.
Balancing Love and Boundaries in Parenting
00:27:01
Speaker
It's really amazing like I remember obvious senior year and it was during the pandemic and so I remember like we were having a lot of arguments in my house. Even I would say even before that like Zoe was home in 2020 you know she had come home and everyone was in the house and
00:27:18
Speaker
There was a lot of conflict. And I remember one day John came to me and I tend to be like the bad guy. Like I'm the one that's, you know, disciplining. I mean, that's just the roles we play, right? That's my role. So I'm going to switch. And sometimes the other person ends up being the bat. Oh, you switch. But but that's the role. That was pretty much the role that I've been playing. So I remember John came to me and he's like, you're going to actually damage your relationships with the kids if you don't like.
00:27:46
Speaker
chill out a little bit or if you don't like get like loosen up a little bit or let them blah blah blah and I remember saying to him like I'm never gonna parent from a place of fear and I'm I'm gonna like no if I feel like we need to do this because it makes the most sense like
00:28:04
Speaker
I'm going to have to trust that it's not going to damage our relationship, but I can never, I'm not going to parent from a place of fear. And I feel like, you know, sometimes parents are afraid to be strict or, you know, say what needs to be said because they don't want to offend their kids or upset them or whatever. But, you know, I think at the end of the day, we owe it to our kids to show up and be the parent that they need us to be. Even if it is uncomfortable,
00:28:32
Speaker
And even if it is or does cause like a season of turmoil, if you will, um, I've just personally found that that never ever has impacted my relationship with my daughters in a negative way long-term at all. And I don't have any regrets for, you know, parenting them.
00:28:54
Speaker
when I felt like they needed to say no when I felt like they needed to hear the word no.
Finding Joy in the Empty Nest
00:28:59
Speaker
What you're saying is so true because it is seasons or times in their lives. And I was just talking to my son about this as I was driving him to school today about reaction and responding. Because I had done an event online and that topic had come up. And I'm like, I'm wondering. He's almost 15.
00:29:23
Speaker
You know, saying, I said, you know, I think a lot of times in my parenting with you, I've reacted. And I'm sure you guys too, as children reacted to something.
00:29:34
Speaker
But just so you know, the response is the things that you're consciously thinking. And what you're saying right now in saying no when you need to say no, because you know that in the long term will benefit them,
00:29:54
Speaker
It's a way of responding to situations instead of just, like you said, reacting to what's going on. Sometimes we react, but thinking of the long-term effect that that response that you're saying to them is going to have on their lives and impact and knowing that love, ultimately, is the underlying factor in anything we do as a parent.
00:30:20
Speaker
And you know, of course I react. Believe me, there's been many times where I haven't thought through and I've reacted. I'm normal, just like we all are. And I've made plenty of mistakes. So I never want anyone to think that like, I don't think that I've made plenty of mistakes. Trust me. I'm not perfect at all. But I mean, yeah, everything I've done has been through the lens of love for sure. And, you know, I do the best I can. We do the best we can. John and I together as parents and, um,
00:30:49
Speaker
I think just being an empty nester though, it's a really beautiful season because of the relationship that I have with my daughters. Now, would I feel differently if I didn't feel like I was close to them and I didn't have this connection? Yes, I think 100%. If they had gone to school and we weren't having conversations frequently and I didn't feel like I was part of their lives,
00:31:17
Speaker
I think it would really pull out my heartstrings and I think it would make being an empty nester a completely different experience than it is for me.
Adjusting to Empty Nest Life During Pandemic
00:31:28
Speaker
Absolutely. In fact, John and I were talking about this yesterday in the car because we have a friend who called us and his son is in college and he was just, he was saying, you know, I don't, I never talked to my son. We don't really have a good relationship. Maybe, you know, once a week he'll ask for money or something.
00:31:48
Speaker
we had a conversation with him and then we got off and I just, John and I were talking and I'm just like, gosh, we're so, I feel so blessed. But at the same time, you know, it was always a priority to us. So I think like the way we raised our kids, it was always really important that they felt that like our family was a priority to them. And so I feel like,
00:32:16
Speaker
that maybe had something to do. I don't know. I feel like that had something to do with it. I really do. Yeah. It's just different. Now let me, let me ask you as you're talking about your conversations with John. So, so much of my, I, my personal dynamic sometimes talking to my husband, especially when the kids were little is talking about the kids. So how does that change? How does that shift now that the kids like,
00:32:41
Speaker
are not home. Is it like is it still? Is it still that you talk about the kids and the girls in college? Or have you realized that now in this new chapter of your relationship, it's like back to talking about things that have to do with the two of you and the plans that two of you guys have? What? What does that look like? Yeah, well, I feel like if you weren't, I mean, things are starting to get better in terms of the pandemic. But I, I honestly feel like if the pandemic hadn't been here,
00:33:09
Speaker
when we entered into empty Nester's stage, if you will. Like, we would have been talking about more fun things that we were doing, but truthfully- We took this trip. Yeah, we took this trip to this- Yeah, exactly. I mean, we are building a house now, so we have that, so we're doing that together, which is really fun. But truthfully, like, we still talk a lot about our kids. And, I mean, I don't, I don't,
00:33:39
Speaker
I find that I'm unhappy about that. I wish we were doing more fun things, but I think that has to do with just the pandemic, to be honest with you. Because like I said, we are around my in-laws. We've been taking it super, super seriously. And so I'm not going out and living my best life in terms of doing all the things that I want to be doing.
New Writing Projects Inspired by Family
00:34:03
Speaker
I'm writing a lot. I'm in my house a lot. He's an attorney downtown. He doesn't tell me anything about what he does during the day because it's all confidential. So, you know, it's kind of like, how was your day? Fine. How was your day? Fine. Okay. You know, and then we talk about, you know, world events or, um, you know,
00:34:25
Speaker
my feelings or whatever. It's not like we're saying like, Oh my God, let's go here for dinner and let's go meet all of our friends and let's go blah, blah, blah, because
00:34:38
Speaker
I mean, we're just not doing that yet. But hopefully we will be soon. I love it. Thank you. I know. I asked that because it's like projecting. No, and I appreciate it because it's like what I think of sometimes with my husband, Carlos, I'm like, what are we going to talk about? Like, you know, because it's like, you know, like, it's like you you forget that you actually first were just to
00:35:02
Speaker
It was only the two of us first and then it's like your life starts revolving so much around what the kids do and all these kinds of things. For our family, it doesn't change. I mean, in a good way, in some ways. I mean, because we still, we have our family group chat and, but we talk about, we talk about, you know,
00:35:23
Speaker
We both are interested in what's going on in the world, and we talk about world events, and of course, our show on Netflix that we're binging. We always try to have a show to binge. That all four of you talk about? Yeah, that all four of you? John and I. John and I. Oh, you and John. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's kind of what we talk about.
00:35:41
Speaker
Yeah, we're like that too. We binge watch as well. And when we don't have anything to binge watch, we're like, what are we going to do? What are we going to watch? No, it's like, okay, we have to find something. We got to find it. Yeah.
00:35:56
Speaker
Okay, now let's talk about the books you're currently writing and are any of them in relation to this new chapter of your life or what are the themes of these new books?
00:36:12
Speaker
So one book is a fiction book. I've always wanted to write fiction. That actually was always my plan. All this other stuff just sort of happened. And it is a fiction book that's in the voice of a mother and the voice of a daughter. And each chapter, it fluctuates between the mother's voice and the teenage daughter's voice.
00:36:33
Speaker
the teenage daughter is in high school. And there's a son and the son is in college and the son is going through some mental health issues. And it's sort of like how that family navigates through that together. And then a mother daughter relationship and conflict and
00:36:52
Speaker
you know, all those things. When do you think that one will be really sexy? I don't know. I mean, I have to find a literary agent that focuses on fiction. So I, I've written about 60,000 words. So, I mean, I'd like to be finished with this book and starting that process sometime this summer.
00:37:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's fun. How do you with the, of course, the voice of a teenager, you've had two teenage girls. Do you draw a lot of inspiration from the type of words or lingo that they would do? Or how do you do the research for these fictional characters? I'm so good at writing the teenage daughter's voice. That's easier for me to write than the mom.
00:37:40
Speaker
That's really weird. I know. But I don't. Yeah, I don't. I just draw on. I don't have to do a lot of research. I do. Do you feel that that's part because a lot of you is still in like is you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think anyone who writes you can't. For me personally, like I don't think I could write without bringing my experiences into it. That's what makes it, you know,
00:38:09
Speaker
my book, if you will, different than someone else's book. But it's really fun to write. And then I'm working on a nonfiction book with my podcast partner Garth Callahan. I'm working on a book with him. So it's about resilience and hope and
00:38:26
Speaker
It's a nonfiction book Okay, so so then for these two will both of these then will they be when people are in your blog if they subscribe These books aren't coming out anytime soon, but yeah, it will be a while
Embracing Life Changes and Gratitude
00:38:44
Speaker
But just to be on the lookout, if they're subscribed to your website, they will know when these are lost. Absolutely. Yes. And follow me on Instagram at crazy perf life and on Facebook at crazy perfect life. And then they'll know all the things.
00:38:59
Speaker
All of the things and then again the other book that dark hurts wrote again is I am my mother's daughter And that can be found on your website as well as yeah, it can be found anywhere Obviously you can get it on my website the easiest place you can get on Amazon if you want a signed copy you can get it I partnered with my local bookstore and People can get that from my website easy
00:39:29
Speaker
as well. That is wonderful. Now, is there anything else you'd like to share with the listeners that I did not ask about this chapter? And this is the first time that I'm interviewing somebody regarding empty nesters. So is there any other question I did not, you know, think about asking? I appreciate that. I would just say to anyone who's literally like anticipating becoming an empty nester, or they think like, Oh, gosh, my child's leaving in three years, I only have three years left, you know, or I only have
00:39:58
Speaker
a year left. I guess what I would say is make the most of every single day that you have with your family and do everything that you can through the lens of love in terms of the way you parent your child, but also
00:40:17
Speaker
you don't just have three years. You don't just have a year because they're not, they're still going to be your son or daughter. They're still going to be in your life. It's just sort of a different relationship, a different season of the relationship. But, um, you know, I spent a lot of energy feeling anxious about it and
00:40:38
Speaker
That was a little bit of wasted. The anticipatory is part of it. We all do the best we can. And I try not to judge myself because we all are human. But just be present. Show up. Connect with your kid. And then when your child goes to college, it's a different season. But everything's going to be just fine.
00:40:59
Speaker
Uh, I love it. You know, I think I did this podcast for me. I did this interview is for me because I am one of those like already thinking, Oh my God. And because my kids are only a year apart for us, it's going to hit us like bam, bang, you know? So, uh, so I definitely wanted to hear those words. I'm so grateful that you, you said that to not, you know, I mean, I'm 50. And so, I mean, I'm definitely feeling like there's still a lot I want to do with my life. And, um,
00:41:28
Speaker
Now I have a little bit more freedom to do that. Especially when the pandemic goes away. Except now you have to find a dog sitter because the girls aren't there. I will say, make sure you get
Podcast Closing Thoughts
00:41:41
Speaker
a dog. It's so nice to have my little dog, my little puppy buddy. He's my buddy during the day and he probably gets a lot more attention than he would have if we weren't empty nesters. I definitely think that's true.
00:41:55
Speaker
I cannot agree more. We have now a second one. And for us, it's that. Our kids are teenagers, and so they don't need us as much. They're busy. They have their own. So for us, it's like another being that at least we're interacting with. So yes, I agree. And this is without even being an empty nester. They've helped my husband and I even cope with the fact that our kids are not needing us as much.
00:42:25
Speaker
Yeah. And that's an interesting thing that you bring up is that you're right. Like by the time my kids were seniors in high school, I mean, they were so busy with their lives. It's not like they really spent that much time with us in a lot of ways. So in some ways I feel like some of the conversations I have with my daughters now are deeper, more meaningful conversations because they're not running
00:42:49
Speaker
to be with friends like they were when they were living here. They appreciate it more. You know, it's just it's just it's just fun. So I love that. I'm looking now I'm looking forward to that to the fact that you're in right? Like, never wish your life like everyone just embrace where you are appreciate where you are. And then but don't be we don't have to be afraid of what's coming next.
00:43:15
Speaker
perfect, perfect, perfect way to change. And that could be for any stage in our lives that we're at, whether you have children or not, just being present in, you know, being present and embracing where you're at now without anticipation and this anticipatory grief or anxiety that comes from the what is may come. So thank you so much again. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful.
00:43:44
Speaker
I am grateful to and grateful that you accepted to be on this podcast and take some time away from book writing to be on here. So thank you again.
00:43:59
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:44:27
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.