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Shakers: The Chuck Berry of Furniture. Season 2, Episode 25.
53 Plays3 years ago
Wrapping up the Shaker section this week we talk about how influential The Shakers have been in the world of furniture design.
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Transcript
Green Street Joinery Partnership
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Evolving Feelings about Shakers
00:01:05
Speaker
Craftsman. All right, here we are. Welcome back, folks. We're here to wrap up the
00:01:11
Speaker
the Shakers section of the podcast. Yeah. I think this has been a little bit of an awakening for us. Yeah. Yeah. And it's been a couple of weeks. So we, um, since we recorded the last episodes, so we're going to be digging up some old, um, sour feelings about Shakers. Now, to be fair, we both went into the Shaker episode as
00:01:35
Speaker
You know, proponents of the Shakers, almost fans. Certainly, like most people in our trade, we use Shakers style and design, at least the stuff that we attribute to the Shakers. It's been attributed to them. And we really.
00:01:59
Speaker
sort of uncovered some I would say opportunistic elements of what's attributed to the Shakers and their success.
Shaker Aesthetic Influence
00:02:15
Speaker
So we're going to go over the Shaker aesthetic, which pretty much everybody's familiar with, everybody in the industry, and their lasting influence. Given that they only flourish for about 100 years, it's really incredible to know how many books have been published on the lives, inventions, which is a misattributed invention.
00:02:43
Speaker
Yeah, but the design aesthetic, the craftsmanship of the Shakers, and in some ways they were ahead of their time, unless you ask us. Right place, right time. That's right. So I know you're looking at the notes, but if you do a Google search for Shaker furniture, guess how many results come up?
00:03:08
Speaker
I'm gonna guess approximately 31 million. Exactly. That's crazy, isn't it? Yeah. Just a simple, simple two word search. 31 million results. That's a lot. Yeah. So.
00:03:27
Speaker
It shows that their, if not influenced, their presence is really wide.
Personal Moment with New Puppy
00:03:40
Speaker
She looks like she just got into some trouble. Yeah. We got a little visitor in the studio today. Yeah, we got a puppy down here.
00:03:49
Speaker
I wonder, I don't think we had her last time we recorded. No. So it's been about a month, month that we got Kaya is her name. My son named her. She's like a little chihuahua. She's acting like she wants to come up, but I guess not. Chihuahua mix with something.
00:04:08
Speaker
Yeah, she looks like, she doesn't really look like a chihuahua except for the size. Yeah. Maybe the body. Kind of the ears, maybe. Yeah. They said miniature pincher, I think. Which is a possibility. I don't know, she's got an interesting color. Yeah, now neither of us were traditionally small dog. No, not at all. People, but this is the cutest dog going. Yeah, she's pretty good. What a personality, right? I'm sure she's, yeah, going up there, Kaya.
00:04:37
Speaker
Keep you out of trouble. Yeah, there you go. So just go to sleep. She sleeps like a freaking, I don't know what, what's an animal that sleeps a sloth? Bear in the winter. Yeah. So let's get back to, we'll get back to our shakers. We were distracted there from it.
Shaker Design Principles
00:04:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:55
Speaker
Although their attitude toward design was based on religious beliefs, it anticipated in a remarkable way concepts of functionalism that became common about a hundred years later. So that's really what's, I guess, created this lasting presence and influence of the Shakers.
00:05:23
Speaker
time sort of caught up with them and the design aesthetic.
00:05:29
Speaker
it's probably we're probably in agreement when we think they didn't necessarily set the tone but sort of just they were there at a time when you know we're coming out of like the Chippendales and the Sheridan's and all this federal and empire furniture that's highly ornate got a lot of carvings marketry this crazy veneer work and they came in and went like you know
00:05:58
Speaker
Not complete utilitarian, but pretty much. Just about. So yeah, I think people kind of latch onto it because they were flying in the face of really what was popular. And it's not that it was new, it was just they were there. Stripped down old. Right. They made the Pennsylvania Dutch look like a bunch of partiers. Yeah. Like they're on Rum Springer 24-7.
00:06:23
Speaker
with all those paintings and design work, unicorns, curves.
00:06:33
Speaker
So as we've discussed, Shaker's style is an aesthetic and set of design principles that wasn't born out of fashion, neither from architecture nor nature and landscapes. Whereas a lot of the other styles we've discussed were sort of a reaction to or a growth of a previous design style. Yeah, they're like, look at this building we uncovered in Pompeii. Let's make a chair that
00:07:03
Speaker
you know reminds us of that right the klizmos chair which we see everywhere now yeah uh... and if you guys listening uh... haven't had a chance to look up what a klizmos chair is you should you should just take those few minutes yeah and you're gonna start to notice it in all kinds of knockoff furniture uh... the the leg style especially yeah uh...
00:07:29
Speaker
It really is, uh, um, a far reaching design. Yeah. Talking 1000 years, whatever. Maybe more. I forget when the first, you know, they found that, uh,
00:07:43
Speaker
Oh yeah. Like a carving of a Clismos chair. That was probably in the 1800s, I guess, right? Was that when they started doing all the architectural, the archaeological digging? Yeah, yeah. And it was Greek, I think they found it in Greece. Yeah, yeah.
00:08:00
Speaker
So part of how the Shakers believe they could show and honor their belief is by creating their own style of furniture. Furniture that focused on use and purpose over ornamentation and decorative detail and furniture that shows how by honoring function you can be led to the most beautiful form subjectively.
00:08:29
Speaker
Yes. So three of the guiding principles of Shaker design. This is vicious. Prioritization and necessity is number one. This is one of the Shakers greatest examples of discipline in design. Before making any piece of furniture, they ask whether or not it's actually needed. I wish people would start doing that now.
00:08:58
Speaker
with a four-foot charcuterie board with a big handle on the end. Yes. They have real clarity of need versus want. Speaking of charcuterie, there's a commercial now about insurance.
00:09:20
Speaker
I think it's State Farm where they have like the basketball players and one of the coaches is doing a crossword puzzle and he goes what's an eight-letter word for charcuterie? I thought oh god I don't know what the answer is but hmm
00:09:39
Speaker
I don't know if there is a real answer. It's not pepperoni, is it? E-E-P-P-E-R-O-N-I. That's nine. Unless there's only two P's in pepperoni. P-E-P-P.
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah, my first guess was salami, but that's too short. That's only six. Yeah, but I thought man the word and idea of Kudri has invaded popular culture. A-S-S-H-O-L-E-S. Assholes.
Shaker Design Philosophy
00:10:11
Speaker
You want to go down there? We're kind of down.
00:10:16
Speaker
She just tries to act tough for a three-pound dog. And number two, utility and function. So we're talking about the guiding principles of Shaker design. So first is, is it necessary? Is it needed? Or is this just something I want? Second is utility and function.
00:10:41
Speaker
And this is more to do with how they design the piece once they establish, all right, we need a cupboard for our clothing. Now, how are we going to design this? So Shaker furniture, it's always created with function in the forefront. The entire focus is on performance and fulfilling objectives of use and purpose.
00:11:07
Speaker
And they believe that the beauty in a piece comes from its ability to work well, to do as intended. And we're on board with that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is kind of our thought process. The first one, not so much. I mean, if we only build things that were absolutely necessary, we probably wouldn't be building much. We'd be out of business. The wine cabinet comes to mind. The coffee cupboard.
00:11:37
Speaker
Yeah, we're more in the want business than the need business. Yeah. But number two is, I mean, that's our bread and butter. Yes. We have a different end idea of what is beautiful. But I think we get a lot of satisfaction out of joining function and utility.
00:12:07
Speaker
I think most people in our game, the small craft shop, that's part of what gets us up in the morning to go to work. Yeah, make things that really enhance people's lives. Right.
00:12:24
Speaker
Um, cause at the end of the day, I mean, that's really what we're doing where we have a pretty personal relationship with our clients. Yeah. You know, we're, we're bringing something into their home. A lot of times it's, it's daily use stuff. Um, like the bank cat. Yeah. That we, I mean, we've got a couple of bank cats coincidentally that we're, uh,
00:12:48
Speaker
Got in the shop. And these are going to be daily use items. People are going to be sitting, lounging. Yeah. You know, the one the client said, you know, when I was a kid, like this is what we had and I want that for my kids. Right. Like a big banquet where everybody can sit and eat and talk and, you know. That's super cool. Yeah. We'll be, you know, helping that family evoke memories of the past. Mm hmm.
00:13:19
Speaker
I really I mean that's that's some of my greatest satisfaction. Yeah.
00:13:28
Speaker
So the Shakers, they want these pieces that they decide they need to function really well. That's number one. And because of their religious beliefs, they thought sparseness was really the ideal form of beauty. So they pared back
00:13:52
Speaker
forms with unfussy silhouettes, a real clean character. It ought to be a show-off. That's exactly it. That's the best way to summarize it. God doesn't like show-offs. We could go off on a tangent about today's culture, couldn't we?
00:14:18
Speaker
I love this word as I was doing my, you know, I call it research. The Shakers aren't concerned with flounce and flourish.
00:14:34
Speaker
I like that. That could be the new, uh, we got, um, tranche, uh, obsequious, and flounce. I love that word, flounce. Insubordinate and Cherlish.
00:14:53
Speaker
I want to see somebody work that into a sentence in daily life. That would be funny. Those are just distractions from and contradictions to the purity and function of a piece. They don't need any adornments unless it actually adds to how the piece functions.
00:15:20
Speaker
Beauty rests in utility is one of the phrases for which they're most recognized. Beauty rests in utility. I like that. Yeah, it's a nice bit of wordage. It's one of those, you know, it's like a rule that's meant to be broken. Yeah.
00:15:42
Speaker
But even if shaker simplicity isn't a look that suits you or your home, what this principle reminds you of is to never compromise on the usefulness of a design, which is pretty good. I mean, I like that. I like this third principle as well, integrity and longevity. I mean, we're all about that.
Shaker Commitment to Quality
00:16:10
Speaker
Shaker designs are renowned for their quality. Do you think that's an overstatement? I mean, I'd have to see some in person, I guess. Renowned is a pretty big word. Yeah. And I think if we're going to be skeptical, we might go back to the time and place argument.
00:16:35
Speaker
Right, like they're renowned for their quality at that time because most furniture was being made in factories. Right. I mean, it's like a longer day, shortened the sentence. Yeah. So they believed in making furniture once and well, I mean, this is cool, to avoid being wasteful of all time and materials. Their furniture embodies a commitment to quality. So yeah, I mean, I wouldn't take it away from them.
00:17:06
Speaker
Uh, but it may be a little bit overstated. Yeah.
00:17:14
Speaker
natural materials and the art of handmade are honored but the shakers are also responsible for creating advancements in machinery too if it serves to be useful allegedly the circuit was soft for example was an invention of the shakers allegedly because it produced more accurate cuts
00:17:38
Speaker
quicker less time. So they weren't anti technology. Not to say the least. Yeah. Not like the Pennsylvania Dutch. Right.
00:17:49
Speaker
It's this shaker principle that reaffirms not to sacrifice the quality of the furniture that you have in your home. Seek out the pieces that are made in the way that they should be and from the best material for the item in question. Invest in the pieces that have been designed to last the course.
Shaker Furniture Pricing Speculation
00:18:09
Speaker
Yeah. I put that in bold. That's how we feel. Exactly.
00:18:13
Speaker
It is an investment because it's not just, you know, more costly to have things built like we do it. And I wonder what the price of Shaker furniture was compared to factory furniture at the time. Yeah. That's something I kind of missed. Seemed like it was pretty popular. I don't know if that means that it was comparable in price. Excuse me.
00:18:46
Speaker
Got a little picture of a shaker dresser here, a photo. I like that. Yeah, the caption I put was a shaker dresser that's, you know, appropriate that you could see in somebody's house today. Yeah. I mean, not if they were going like mid-century or, well, maybe. No, I mean, if you, let's say you change the wood, like this looks like, let's see, zoom in a little bit. To me, it looks like maple.
00:19:11
Speaker
Yeah, maple has gotten that really, really dark. Yeah, it could be cherry. You know, hard to tell the difference between old cherry and old maple. Probably, probably maple. But I mean, look, we got these are very reminiscent of like a mid-century kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. Change out the hardware. Change out the wood species. It's a very modern piece. It's got really nice form. The one thing I'm, I guess,
00:19:39
Speaker
There's no need for inset drawers if you're going just on the sense of whatever functions best, whatever is the fastest to produce and still make it perform well. Yeah, the Shakers, everything is overlay, I feel like.
00:20:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's the one thing I kind of had wrong in my head when I was picturing Shaker stuff, not really diving deep into it. That was one of the things I did always notice about Shaker furniture is that it's all this slab overlay. Yeah, yeah. And that's one of the biggest turnoffs for me is I just prefer the look of inset. I do too. And a big wide drawer like that,
00:20:32
Speaker
Design-wise, I'm drawn to the look of breadboard ends. I always like that, especially when you line the grain up on the breadboards, going up a nice long row of drawer fronts like that. Yeah, I mean, your style could even come out of the same piece. Yep. I love that. What are you doing, Kaya? You smell something?
00:20:55
Speaker
Smells like maybe she just took a leak. I'll be right back. Yeah.
Influence on Modern Designers
00:21:02
Speaker
I'll talk amongst myself for the next few moments as we take a break. So we're going to start getting into some of the people you probably have heard of.
00:21:23
Speaker
and what they think of the shaker aesthetic. We have a deposit in the studio. Oh man. One of the things that I wish we had going with our podcast was some live interaction.
00:21:46
Speaker
I mean, Jeff and I are never short on opinion when we can kind of, here comes the dog running away. We can talk about this stuff ourselves, but that was one of the great things about having a guest was to get that
00:22:05
Speaker
alternative point of view. And as we're talking about things like the Shakers and sort of questioning if the reverence for the Shaker design and build quality is on a par with, you know, let's say Sheridan and, you know, Chippendale
00:22:36
Speaker
We wonder, I lost my train of thought there because we were corralling in a dog. Sorry about that. So we're wondering if are the Shakers on par with designers like Chip and Dale and Sheridan and
00:23:03
Speaker
Is their influence a product of just our modern taste coming more in line with their style? Because if you see somebody with a Chippendale reproduction or something like that in their home, it doesn't really fit into the modern home, which is quite casual.
Shaker Design vs. Modern Lifestyles
00:23:29
Speaker
We live a pretty casual lifestyle here.
00:23:34
Speaker
Excuse me. The dog is banned. Banned from the podcast. Do you come and poop on the floor or you're out?
00:23:44
Speaker
So I came across some pretty good quotes from designers that everybody who's listening to this podcast I'm sure has heard of. Gustav Stickley, Charles Eames, and near local George Nakashima. Yeah. Man, I'm going to have to get something to drink here.
00:24:14
Speaker
George Nakashima on his approach to design, our approach is based on direct experience, a way of development outward from an inner core, something of the same process that nature uses in the creation of a tree. Yeah, I guess that comes from the soul of a tree, which is George Nakashima book.
00:24:34
Speaker
Which I think they actually just they just published a new edition really so it's easier to find now That's one of those books. You know it's funny with woodworking books. There's a lot of hard to find books, and they're very expensive So now you can get soul of a tree for you know like regular book price like 30 bucks or whatever Yeah, they probably don't print a whole lot of them at first yeah, and then they sell out
00:24:59
Speaker
and after how many years pass and then but the demand is steady I bet you know the same let's say ten thousand people per year want to get their hands on this book and then eventually runs out
00:25:18
Speaker
And this is to quote George, we design based on principles as universal as possible, producing objects without style in quotes that are real and utilitarian. The subtlety of the evolvement of the finest materials shaped with intense skill can produce a basic sensitivity.
00:25:43
Speaker
That's almost poetry. The subtlety of the evolvement of the finest materials shaped with intense skill can produce a basic sensitivity. George Nakashima felt akin to the Shakers. Yeah.
00:26:06
Speaker
He also says, in a world where manual skills are shunned, we believe in them, not only in the act of producing a better product, but in the sheer joy of doing or becoming.
00:26:20
Speaker
I mean, you can see why people like us love George Nakashima. I mean, not just for his work, but the way he expresses himself. He's got a hell of a story, too. Yeah, I'd love to hear some more about that. I purposely didn't go too deep into it because I had a feeling he was going to come up in the mid-century. Yeah, yeah.
00:26:46
Speaker
We feel that pride and craftsmanship of doing as perfect a job as possible of producing something of beauty even out of nature's discards. The minimalist style of shaker furniture is governed by the guiding principles of honesty, utility, and simplicity.
00:27:08
Speaker
All right, so this is one of my favorite pieces of furniture. That's right. I've heard you talk about the Nakashima Kanoy chair. And like I always talk about, now I'm at a loss for words, you know what I always want to build. Morris chair. The Morris chair, right. There's just something about this chair that I love. I mean, it's so unique.
00:27:38
Speaker
Why don't you try and describe it for our listeners in case they don't know what it is? Yeah, so imagine sort of, and he's got a bunch of different versions of it. This is a side profile shot. Imagine sort of two trestles where the vertical portion is set back at, you know, about a 15 degree angle. And that's what forms the legs and the
00:28:08
Speaker
Well, the feet and the legs, really. Yeah. And then he's got a curved crest rail at the top and the seat is a sculpted seat. You know, it's just like a square that's mortised into these verticals and it has, you know, sculpting. The seat is scooped out. And I think the original had round
00:28:35
Speaker
like a comb back style. And the seat's kind of cantilevered out in front. Right, yeah. So the seat is just attached into those two verticals. So it's a pretty sparse design. It's got an amazing silhouette. Yeah. Let's bring up another picture. Yeah, we're looking at kind of like a sketch. And it's really something you can interpret. Yeah.
00:29:07
Speaker
Wow. Oh, first dibs. One Nakano chair by George Nakashima sold. I wonder what that went for. $9,000, it looks like it says, or $9,900. That's nothing. Yeah. That's her one dining chair. I know, but for a real Nakashima. Hey, it's a real Nakashima. For Nakashima. Yeah. The thing that's so cool about that design is,
00:29:37
Speaker
We could build a conoid chair. Anybody could build a conoid chair. And you would instantly recognize it. It's like, that's a Nakashima conoid chair. It wouldn't have to be an exact replica. Wouldn't it be cool to have a whole dining room set of those? Yeah, I'm thinking about that right now. I had to build a conoid bankette on the other side.
00:30:06
Speaker
This one's really nice that we're looking at. Yeah, I mean, it looks like the spindles are maybe ash. Yeah, yeah. They're kind of tapered on both ends, round spindles. Yep.
00:30:24
Speaker
Yeah that's I mean what a great project to be able to spend you know some time designing your own kind of take on it. I mean it's six pieces and like and like seven spindles one two three four five six seven eight thirteen pieces altogether.
00:30:48
Speaker
Yeah, what do you think it's like a mortise and tenon attaching the the back to the the top to the stress rail? Yeah, probably You know these look like they're half half lap deals Where the the leg will call it the vertical portion goes over these trellis feet trestle feet not trellis trestle and then the
00:31:13
Speaker
this is probably like I hate to say it like almost like a Maloof joint. Yeah. Where we in our world we don't we don't really have the same reference reverence for Maloof as we do for Nakashima. Yeah.
00:31:33
Speaker
I mean, it just has such a nice stance. You have the seat is angled up about five degrees, the back is angled back about 15 degrees, so you end up with like that 100 degree. Yeah, yeah. I wonder how many he made before he sort of cemented the proportions and the angles. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, those are the kind of things where you'd really love to have a cup of coffee with somebody.
00:32:02
Speaker
Yeah. You know, just talk to them. Yeah. Well, what's that? It looks like a settee or something like that. About 2 thirds of the way down on the left. Look at this. Yeah. Looks like maybe it's a glider. Nakashima with a canoid with some upholstery. Yeah. And an ottoman. Canoid cushion chair.
00:32:34
Speaker
Those top views are great, too. It shows the real elegance in the design with the curves and the straight lines. There you go. Some Morris Connolly. Yeah. That's what I want right there. Eight of them. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a desk. Yeah. Now, like the Nakashima Live Edge stuff, I'm not the biggest fan of it. I prefer
00:33:05
Speaker
is stuff that doesn't incorporate live edge. Oh, pull up that dining set there. Yeah, look at that. There's a lot of Conoid chairs in, like, libraries, certain libraries and stuff. So our second recommendation for those listening after the Clismos chair is to look up the Conoid chair. Oh, yeah. The Clismos is spelled with a K. K-L-I-S-M-O-S. And Conoid with a C.
00:33:35
Speaker
How'd the shaker go? And when you find out what they look like, you're going to have sort of like one of those, uh-huh, kind of minutes where you go, oh, yeah, I've seen that. Mm-hmm. We've got Nakashima dining table.
00:33:55
Speaker
Oh, man. Yeah, that's nice. See, this is the kind of this is this is Nakashima I prefer. Yeah, that's sweet. Like I'd love to have a table like that. Yeah. I mean, the shoji screens in the bag.
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah. It's so spare. Yeah. It's very Japanese looking in my eyes. Just the thickness of the top in relation to the thickness of the legs, the braces, all these. It's just so perfect. I mean, it's a tremendous photograph, too, the way it's centered on the shoji screens.
00:34:39
Speaker
Yeah, perfectly. It's just, I would love to be able to knock that off and build it, right? And look at the functionality. You have this big overhang on the ends. The ends don't become unusable by the base. Yeah, yeah. Where this is set, you have space for a chair on either corner and then one in the center here or even two. Yeah, I've built a few dining room tables and that's
00:35:09
Speaker
That's one of the biggest things I learned because people We know this people come to you with a dining room table thing And the one of the first things they say is I want to be able to see X number of people Yeah, and then they go can we put people here? It's like well No, you can't have that style table because the person who's sitting here they can't get their knees into the table if you have like that or
00:35:33
Speaker
You know, you can't have a person at the end of the table and at the head of the table sharing the same space unless the tables this wide, you know. Yeah, so he's now here's the shaker dining table. There's the shaker.
00:35:57
Speaker
Now, here's my thing. Everybody talks about the Shakers, how they, you know, simplicity is beauty and this and that. This table compared to this table. Oh, man. Same set of... Ingredients. ...ideals. Yeah. And look at the difference. This is austere. This is like you have this in a prison. I was going to say, that looks like a school library kind of thing that the woodshop class made. Like an orphan. This is like what you find in like an orphanage.
00:36:27
Speaker
this is simplicity is beauty or whatever the quote is you know I mean it is again does this particular table have a name I wonder let me see if it says anything up there it just says dining table I see yeah I'm sure it may because
00:36:54
Speaker
What a juxtaposition of outcomes based on the same principles. Yeah. Like Nakashima sees himself as an inherent of the Shaker aesthetic and style and point of view. But his interpretation and the end result, it's like a different planet. Yeah. Now is this blasphemous this table?
00:37:23
Speaker
And this is holy. It's like I said it's almost the same ingredients. You know you got the sort of the trestle feet the top the brace the stretcher if you will. I mean like look at this little like cloud lifting that did here. Whoever whatever shaker built this by going to hell.
00:37:53
Speaker
Yeah. Speaking of cloudless, if you want to hear hyperbole from you and I, once we get into the arts and crafts, when we get to the greens, holy cow. Some of that stuff is just so remarkable. But we'll backtrack here to Mr. Nakashima.
00:38:18
Speaker
I don't know if I could be any more effusive in my praise. Is that the right word sounds right because that table just blows me away. I mean it's it's everything that I would aspire to be as a designer and then hopefully as a builder.
00:38:40
Speaker
Yeah, and you know, when you strip down, this is what I like, when you strip down the design to something simple like that, then you can really take your time and it's like, okay, there's only a dozen joints on this whole thing. So that's going to be a dozen perfect joints because instead of there being 144 joints, there's 12.
00:38:59
Speaker
Right, and 120 are good, and there's one that's perfect, 11 that you just kind of look sideways at. Yeah, you have to, you know, try and block it out of your brain for the rest of your life. Right, because you'd never be able to finish it within budget if you, you know, that's the reality of our world nowadays. Well, and here Nakashima says, the woodworker has a special intensity, a striving for perfection.
00:39:24
Speaker
a conviction that any task must be executed with all his skill to create the best object he is capable of creating. We should have that up in the shop. I mean, it's inspirational.
Craftsmanship Inspiration from Shakers
00:39:38
Speaker
Yeah, like you don't want to pigeonhole yourself into not being able to do your best because you create this design that's not achievable to the best degree. Yeah.
00:39:57
Speaker
Yeah, really, really like that. Even early in the morning, we're sitting here kind of relaxing. But it makes me want to do what we do. Yeah, it's a shame. We got to go out to the weather's starting to ease up here in the Northeast.
00:40:23
Speaker
And it's only like an hour or something drive, right, to get out there? Uh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's New Hope. So how long it takes to go out and see Steve? About that? Yeah, yeah. Maybe an hour and 15, an hour and 20. Yeah.
00:40:39
Speaker
I'm looking over at those side tables and those things are aging quite beautifully. Yeah. I'm hoping this bench darkens up a little bit. I mean, you see how dark these, these side tables got. Yeah. Um, so what else does George have to say? Cutting logs entails a great responsibility for we are dealing with fallen majesty. There are no formulas, no guidelines, but only experience instinct and contact with the divine.
00:41:05
Speaker
Now, see, coming from maybe anybody else, that might sound a little, it might ring a little false, but from what we know of George Nakashima, it rings with such truth.
00:41:25
Speaker
Yeah. Um, you know, fallen majesty, somebody else saying that, you know, shut up, buddy. Right. But like when Krenov says it, I get sick of hearing it. I'm like, okay, buddy, give it a rest.
00:41:41
Speaker
That's some of the first books I read were Krenov books because the Middletown Library had a couple and I read them. And so he was actually one of the first people that sort of, you know, gave me ideas and thoughts about woodworking. Yeah. I have him here. Like the first book I loved and then the second one, like I feel like he's just going on and on and on about, you know,
00:42:10
Speaker
the wood and it just, I don't know, I had to stop reading it. Wow. Nakashima Chester drawers. That's pretty cool. Yeah. This is a, we're kind of going to be building something that, that draws from this a little bit. Yeah. This walnut TV cabin that we have coming up. And the base. Yeah.
00:42:37
Speaker
I really like the bottom two drawers, how they sort of merge on the right-hand side there.
00:42:47
Speaker
It's an interesting placement and choice for the woods. Like maybe I would have pulled down that middle drawer down one. Yeah. And put that other one. Yeah, because it's kind of bridges. Maybe somebody put the drawers back in wrong. We're nitpicking George Knackersheep. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like the color is a little bit off on there. And this top rail is a little light. But it's a
00:43:16
Speaker
Plain box dresser, inset drawers. How many drawers are there? Six? Yeah, like a solid case with slab inset into the case. No rails. One, two, three, four, five, six drawers with the top rail. It's interesting, the top rail. That may be a little drawer too. I wonder what the- Like a jewelry drawer.
00:43:40
Speaker
Yeah, because the handles are, those are in, those are like- Carved into the, yeah. So this, maybe you take this from that one, go up like this, pull it out. Pull it underneath. Yeah. Yeah, that may be how you access the drawers, actually. That's pretty cool. And I love the feed on there. That's something that you kind of incorporated in the TV cabinet. Oh, Nakashima has described himself as a Japanese shaker.
00:44:09
Speaker
And here we go. As these photos will attest, Sam Maloof was decidedly influenced by Shaker Designs. We have a Maloof buffet. I like that a lot more than, you know, what he's known for. Yeah. Everybody's all about the rockers. I dislike the rockers, but I love the shaping on the case.
00:44:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You could see I wonder where this is in his career trajectory. Yeah. We're looking at a buffet. You know drawers with under four drawers.
00:44:54
Speaker
And you could certainly see the shaker influence there. These are inset, however. And like you said, there's that rounding, the sculpting of the case work and the legs. Yeah. See this sort of extra overhang is very shaker. And the top is integral to the case. Oh, wow.
00:45:17
Speaker
And then it's got a backsplash, which, if you got rid of the backsplash, I'd like it a lot more. Yeah. And the knobs, those mushroom, those wooden mushroom knobs. Yeah, they look a little more, what's the word I'm looking for here? Proportional? Yeah. They're just a little more sexy. Those shaker, they're too fat and I can't stand those things.
00:45:44
Speaker
I really like the wood grain on the doors. Yeah. Structurally speaking, I'm wondering if that's veneer or if those are solid pieces. I wonder how it's stood up structurally through the years. Looks pretty good. Looks like the reveals are all pretty good. Yeah. You got big reveals on the sides. Super tight on that one. Yeah, this one.
00:46:13
Speaker
The move console table. Let's take a look. Oh man. That's that's definitely a shit. I mean I I don't know if that those were my words because I wrote that so long ago or if that was something I picked up. But yeah he is decidedly influenced by the Shakers. Yeah.
00:46:34
Speaker
This is kind of cool. I like these wishbone legs, but this has a clear crook in it. Looks like they're splayed out, too. Not just curved. Yeah. Which is pretty interesting. Yeah. Not just straight. Yeah, I guess maybe this is split and sort of mitered. Ah, there you go. Because I don't think it's curved out of an entire. No, no. So it would be some.
00:47:04
Speaker
That's a good pin out. That's pretty cool. Like the top looks like it's maybe trapezoidal. Yeah. Yeah, some kind of curve or something along the front edge there, right? Yeah, this looks like it's coming back at an angle. Yeah. And that too. I'll just reiterate, if you enjoy listening to the podcast, I think you'd really enjoy just, you know,
00:47:35
Speaker
Then in five minutes, even, just doing some Google search and to see some of these photographs. Yeah, I mean, if you're lazy, we offer the outlines to all the patrons. So if you want to help support the podcast, you can join the Patreon and shoot us a message. We'll send over this outline with all the links.
00:47:53
Speaker
Yeah, we've done all the searching for you. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, all the outlines up until episode 20 are already posted. And then all the ones passed there were at request. Yeah. Now, here's a little table. I wouldn't pick this out as a Maloof. I mean. Yeah, or even Shaker. Yeah. Certainly.
00:48:21
Speaker
reminiscent of a lot of these small tables that we've seen throughout almost all of the styles. Yeah. They all had one of these small round tables with the. Like a candlestick table. Yeah with the pedestal base you know four legs some had three legs. Yeah a lot of you saw a lot of that in the federal and the empire.
00:48:49
Speaker
That's, you know, it's- His iMac is slow today. Now, did you ever hear of David Ebner? Yeah. I had not heard of him. This is like a cafeteria table.
00:49:08
Speaker
So it's a dining table. It's definitely like a I would even call this stripped down shaker. Yeah. I mean I guess there's got to be a stretcher up there because of the angle of the photograph. Yeah. It looks like just two sort of stainless steel.
00:49:25
Speaker
Yeah, upside down T's holding up a single slab top. Yep. I mean, I like the thumbnail profile here. And then it looks like it's got a small undercut bevel here. Yeah. I'm kidding when I say it's a cafeteria table, but it is sort of reminiscent of that very institutional looking. Yeah, yeah, it's. But in a tasteful way, tastefully done.
00:49:54
Speaker
Yeah, it almost looks like office furniture. Yeah. Like if you had one of those hip offices in the Brooklyn repurpose building. Yeah. Looks like gentrification. So who is David Ebner?
00:50:12
Speaker
He began his career in 1973, so he's somewhat of a contemporary. He's considered by curators and collectors alike as an integral part of the studio craft furniture movement. Interesting. I had not heard of that before. No. I guess that's like a white collar craft. Yeah.
00:50:39
Speaker
So we've touched on Sam Maloof and George Nakashima. And now we're going to come to Gustav Stickley. Yeah. He was also influenced by the Shakers. He actually began his career producing Shaker and Windsor chairs. I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't either. I've read a bunch on Stickley. Yeah, and the functional simplicity of his designs are another nod to the Shakers.
00:51:07
Speaker
Simplicity, honesty and construction, truth to materials.
00:51:14
Speaker
And here's a Flemish phrase. Anybody who speaks Flemish, I will apologize. Right off the bat. Al's ick con loosely translates to, to the best of my ability. And that's one of the things that guided Stickley's approach to furniture. And it became the Stickley Company trademark.
00:51:40
Speaker
Yeah, I think on the logo that has the wooden screw clamp, it says, I'll see con on the clamp. Ah. So stickly envisioned in ornate quality furniture that was admired not for its prestigious or fancy materials, but beautiful construction.
00:52:04
Speaker
Of course, Stickley went on to become one of the preeminent figures in the arts and crafts movement, which along with mission-style furniture owes a debt to the Shakers. I'm surprised I didn't, I guess I didn't go too deeply into Stickley because, you know, he's gonna be such a big part of the arts and crafts thing, but... Oh yeah, I mean these are guys that we could talk about ad nauseam, not gonna show you, Stickley, Maloof,
00:52:33
Speaker
Here's something I've heard of the Bauhaus group, but I didn't know that much about them.
00:52:43
Speaker
In 1910, and you guys might have heard this name before, Walter Gropius, he opened his first architectural office. But in 1919, he took his most significant step. He organized and began direction of the Weimar Bauhaus, properly known as the, this is German, so what do you got there, Jeff?
00:53:15
Speaker
Yeah, Stott leaks Bauhaus at Weimar, which was an industrial art laboratory and school. And people interested in design have heard of the Bauhaus school. There was a band in the 90s called Bauhaus too.
00:53:35
Speaker
And so it's now considered one of the most influential in the creation and dissemination of the modern style with emphasis on the functional. So throughout his professional life, Gropius' credo, Walter Gropius, was that his intention is not to introduce students to a style, but to a method of approach.
Shaker Functionalism in Bauhaus
00:54:02
Speaker
Interesting. I like that.
00:54:06
Speaker
Unlike William Morris, who earlier had argued for simplicity by urging that the machine be replaced by the craftsman, Gropius had great respect for machinery and appreciated the varied accomplishments it made possible. His longtime model was art and technology a new unity. Yeah. All right. William Morris, for those of you that don't know, he's sort of the founder of the arts and crafts movement.
00:54:37
Speaker
Yeah. It was him and who else? Wasn't there an Englishman? They were both Englishmen, I thought, right? Morris and, I forget, late 1800s. Yeah, it's still, yeah, before it comes over here in South America, yeah. Gropius did, however. Oh, Karl Parsons? From the Parsons school fame? Parsons design? I don't know.
00:55:07
Speaker
I got to look this up. Yeah. Don't mind me. All right. Talk amongst yourselves. So Gropius, he did respond positively to William Morris's ideal of the unity of art and life. And from a machine age viewpoint, he admired the standardization of machine made products devised by Henry Ford. Another controversial figure did not age well.
00:55:38
Speaker
gropeus ford ford so gropeus in german he's taking uh... john ruskin ruskin that's right uh... gropeus is taking you know this thought process of the shakers he's
00:56:01
Speaker
Embracing technology of the you know, the turn of the century, you know 1919 when he creates the Bauhaus school and admiring the standardization the uniformity and
00:56:22
Speaker
all the things that machinery and machine-made products can bring. So he's sort of taking the Shaker aesthetic into a side route.
00:56:38
Speaker
To achieve an absolute purity of line and a focus on functionalism, Gropius swept away the sticky sweetness of Art Nouveau's curves and tendrils. That's another great sentence.
00:56:54
Speaker
You can tell. I mean, I can be a little verbose at times, but you could tell the sentences that I cut and paste right from my research material. Those are great. To achieve an absolute purity of line and a focus on functionalism, Gropius swept away the sticky sweetness of Art Nouveau's curves and tendrils.
00:57:16
Speaker
So Gropius, like a lot of the designers we've covered, he's responding to what's going on, either currently or previously, and his reaction is to go in the opposite direction.
00:57:35
Speaker
So like the Shakers, he was influenced by other designs of the past. The 18th century Windsor chair, the spindleback Danish chair of the same period, the simplicity of late 18th and early 19th century Italian Kiavari side chairs, and perhaps
00:57:55
Speaker
Thone as well. Now I just threw out a couple of names I can't really expound upon because I don't really know much about the Kiyavari side chair and Thone. Do your own research. Yeah.
00:58:11
Speaker
It was also at Bauhaus that Gropius inculcated in his students the need to bridge the gap between the art, the arts, and also to unite industrial products with art. So he's trying to instill in his students the need to bridge the gap between the arts and industrial products. Together with his peers, the Cubists,
00:58:37
Speaker
He stressed aesthetic fundamentals and the need to create forms that were geometrically pure. So let's take a look at a couple of things. We got a Bauhaus chair. Very cool. You see these Clismos legs. Exactly.
00:58:53
Speaker
Um, this is something that, you know, if you, uh, if you were to look at this picture, you will say to yourself, I've seen this chair before. Yeah. This is a design that is still still being copied and around big in the seventies stuff like this. Um,
00:59:11
Speaker
And talk about simplicity. Yeah, a couple of curved pieces of metal, upholstered seat and back. That's about it. It really does adhere to his objectives. And it's stylish, I mean. Yeah. There's not a stick of wood in that wheel. Yeah, super sleek. Let's see Bauhaus chair number two.
00:59:38
Speaker
Oh, wow. This is another design that we've seen countless times. It's like a sling chair, I guess you would call it. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. It almost looks like a beach chair. Right. I mean, on both these designs, although they're cloth and metal, I could see interpreting them in wood. Yeah. Now, look at the angle on this. Yeah, it's steep, isn't it? It's like a chair that you could really get into.
01:00:08
Speaker
Let it all hang out. I can see that chair with an ottoman out front. Oh yeah. It's like a like a reading chair. Yeah. Yeah. But you know he's taken the idea that the shakers introduce of simplicity and form
01:00:26
Speaker
uh, scaling everything back to its bare necessities, only he's using completely different materials. Um, so, uh, you know, we did start out saying, this is like, what's the shaker's legacy? And you know, even though we're way into modern design with these things,
01:00:45
Speaker
That's part of the Shaker legacy. Yeah, I'd say like, and I'm just coming to this realization, maybe sort of my hang up with the Shaker design is they're taking something organic, which is wood, and really making things that are very inorganic. These very sparse, yeah, and the design is just better served in metal. Yeah. You know, because the Shaker designs are kind of cold.
01:01:16
Speaker
It's like a lacquered kind of deal dresser.
Shaker Core Values and Cultural Impact
01:01:20
Speaker
Yeah. Let's compare this to the Nakashima. Very similar. So if you take the base, you know, this has just like little kind of bracket feet sort of built into the case. Very similar to that Nakashima dresser. You know, same drawer layout. Basically you got a rail at the top, simple case, inset into the casework.
01:01:44
Speaker
Yeah. It's funny that this is in some respects it could appear cold but it almost appears nice and inviting in a way I guess. Yeah. But yeah this is you could see the the shaker influence we'll call it in the layout. Yeah.
01:02:12
Speaker
I don't know what the deal is with this computer today. So let's summarize. The Shaker philosophy slash design aesthetic can be applied to most things or situations. OK. Excuse me. The Shakers were guided by core values of conviction, integrity, inclusion, and innovation.
01:02:36
Speaker
They were early advocates of gender equality. They welcomed African Americans, practiced pacifism, and put community needs above individual ones. They were successful entrepreneurs known for their various manufacturing enterprises.
01:02:53
Speaker
their creation of beautiful objects that have fascinated generations of admirers and their significant impact on modern design and architecture. I mean, whatever we want to say about the Shakers, they influenced a lot of great work. Absolutely. Yeah, that's undeniable. Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:15
Speaker
It's amazing. The Shakers made important contributions to religious thought, progressive causes, music, craft, agriculture, and industry in the 19th and 20th centuries. Interested in visiting the Shaker Museum in Mount Lebanon, New York?
01:03:32
Speaker
widely considered the country's most significant collection of Shaker furniture, objects, and archival materials, according to the New York Times. Take a ride out there, why not? Yeah. The Shaker Museum holds a comprehensive collection of Shaker objects, archives, and books, and they're the stewards of the North family site at Mount Lebanon, which is the founding community of the Shakers.
01:04:02
Speaker
We should pick a couple places and just put it on the calendar. Yeah, that would be a great podcast thing too. Yeah, we're going to Nakashima this day. We'll go out to Mt. Lebanon this day and just go. You know it would be a great trip. Take a Friday. Falling water. Yeah, it's a long drive because I've checked it out. You've got to go on these small, slow roads.
01:04:25
Speaker
But I've been dying to go to fall in water. The Shaker Museum founder John S. Williams began collecting directly from the Shakers in the 1920s and 30s. He's not a Shaker, but he quickly realized the Shakers represented an important facet of American history. And as their societies were in decline, that crucial story was in danger of disappearing.
01:04:55
Speaker
So he embraced an almost anthropological mission to preserve what he could, traveling around New England to extant communities and forming lasting relationships with the Shakers.
01:05:09
Speaker
They came to trust him, not only to pay a fair price, but to be the custodian of their story. So this guy went around buying up Shaker, artifacts, furniture, et cetera, et cetera. Many collectors and dealers sought spectacular show pieces that could be resold, and some of which are now on display in places like the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
01:05:34
Speaker
But Williams, he also wanted evidence of Daily Shaker Life, how they lived and how they worked. That's another one, the Met. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's right here. We should take a day and go to the Met. I'm going to jot these down. I mean, my wife would love to go to the Met. You're going to have to do that on a separate trip.
01:05:59
Speaker
is a research mission i'd have to keep it is separate of that but come back to what do you guys doing today the wife she likes to ask it was a little bit over onto the mat
01:06:11
Speaker
If I asked you to go, you wouldn't go with me. You know how that conversation already goes. Yeah. The Shakers gave Williams important religious relics, such as a piece of founder, Mother Ann Lee's apron, because they believed in his mission to start a museum and allow the Shaker story to live on.
01:06:33
Speaker
Later, the Shakers transferred one of the most significant collections of their archival material to Shaker Museum, the records of the Central Ministry, which included diaries, business records, and correspondence spanning 150 years.
Shaker Museum and Legacy Preservation
01:06:51
Speaker
So the Shaker Museum, it's an interesting place to visit, I'm sure. We haven't been there
01:06:59
Speaker
And let's see, it's on the Mount Lebanon site. Just briefly, it was founded in 1787. It was the first official community organized by the Shakers and was the leader in administrative and spiritual matters for all Shaker communities that emerged throughout New England. And I didn't know this also as far as Kentucky, Ohio, and Florida. Yeah, well, I didn't know about Florida.
01:07:29
Speaker
Yeah. When the seven remaining Shakers left North family in 1947, Mount Lebanon was closed and the last Shaker family in New York State ceased to exist. So the Shakers there disappearing.
01:07:46
Speaker
Are there one or two left? Was that it? I think that's what we found. Yeah. And they're up in New England somewhere, right? Yeah, yeah. In 1965, Mount Lebanon was named a National Historic Landmark.
01:08:02
Speaker
and recognized by the World Monuments Fund in both 2004 and 2006 as one of the 100 most significant endangered historic sites in the world. And that's how we're going to wrap it up. It is quite a legacy. Yeah. Yeah.
01:08:24
Speaker
I mean, I think for us, at least, the most significant impact of the Shakers are all the inspiration that they wanted to, you know, people who had designed furniture that sort of is more of what we prefer. Yeah. I think, you know, I would I think we might have used this analogy. I can't remember because it's been like a month, but. The Shakers are like one of those bands
01:08:50
Speaker
that you don't really like them so much. Right. But all these bands that you love took a little bit from them and were influenced by them. And that's how you sort of appreciate them more. Yeah I was having that same exact thought like a couple of minutes ago. You know it's like who's the big like the guy who inspired all the rock and roll.
01:09:18
Speaker
Well, like Chuck Berry? Yeah, like Chuck Berry. You know, without Chuck Berry, there's no Rolling Stones. And then there's no, you know, Metallica or whatever. Yeah, I mean, it trickles all the way to today. Now, I don't listen to Chuck Berry, but I have to appreciate the fact that he inspired all these other people who in turn inspired all these other people. And, you know, there's a tangible timeline of how it progressed.
01:09:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's what we can really, really appreciate. We're going to end on like a high note on the Shakers. Yeah, go Shakers. Yeah.
01:09:58
Speaker
We're sorry for all those things we said. We're authentic in our research and our opinion. You don't necessarily have to agree with our opinion. We try to come across with more than one source material so that we're not just citing something that's not true.
01:10:26
Speaker
We try to look at relevant sites and things like that so that we come up with valid examples to base our opinions on. So the Quakers, they're going to get a thumbs up from us. Oh, yeah. It was looking bleak there for the Shakers for a minute.
01:10:51
Speaker
We came around in the end. Yeah, so if you hung on for all four episodes on The Shakers, good for you. Yeah, bravo. Yeah. Well, at that, we'll bid you adieu, and we'll see you next week where we're going to begin on the first episode of the Victorian period, 1840 to 1910. So thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week. Yeah, everybody take care.
01:11:33
Speaker
Ain't no shame, but there's been a chain