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Episode 35: Our Best Bad Movie of 2024 Special, Madame Web
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Chris, Anna, and Greg are proud to bring you our first ever Best Bad Movie of the Year Episode and this year, it had to be Madame Web. A deranged void of a film, Madame Web is the ultimate devolution of the superhero film and the BEST bad movie of 2024. Her web connects them all!
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Transcript
Introduction to the 'Best Bad Movie of the Year Awards'
00:00:43
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the first ever, your favorite bad movie podcast, best bad movie of the year awards. the only award show that is The only award show that is brave enough to ask the question, if this movie was so bad, why was it the best movie of the year?
00:01:09
Speaker
We're your hosts. My name is Chris Anderson and with me I have the Ben to my Cassie. It's Greg. Hello. And of course I have the May to my Ben. It's Anna. Hello.
00:01:31
Speaker
How are you on this night of nights? I'm very excited for this night of night. It's like the Razzies for nice people.
Crowning 'Madam Web' as Best Bad Movie of 2024
00:01:40
Speaker
Yes. And I am proud and excited to announce in a hotly contended year, the best bad movie of 2024 is Madam Web.
00:01:59
Speaker
Congratulations, Madam Web.
00:02:02
Speaker
Congratulations, Madam Web. We, of course, there are a couple of other contenders. We are recording this one a little bit early, but I'm going to discount all other possible contenders coming down the line. Sorry, Joker, Folly, uh, sorry, uh, Craven the hunter. Sorry, Metropolis. Uh, we're calling it right now. Megalopolis. Yes. That's the one we're calling it right now. Best bad movie of the year. Madam Web.
00:02:30
Speaker
Yes, you guys agree. I agree. Yeah, I love Madam Web. It's fan Madam Web was a real ah surprise and delight, I got to say.
Discovering 'Madam Web' and its Memetic Badness
00:02:43
Speaker
Now, Greg, how did you come across Madam Web? So I just heard about it like.
00:02:49
Speaker
you know I pay attention to movies and it was just like this is a bad superhero movie and it's actually kind of a fun bad superhero movie and I was just immediately like okay I'm going to the theater because there's nothing quite like going to a theater to see a current really bad movie that's got a and actors and things going for it. And yet it still can't really be what it should be. And it is more perfect than what it could have ever attempted to be in many ways. Absolutely. Anna, how did you first hear about Madam Web? I know we downloaded it and watched it together.
00:03:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, it was in the zeitgeist around when it came out, and I knew I follow a guy on what was then Twitter and is now X, the Everything website. Blazer Glory. Who decided to go see Madam Web by himself on Valentine's Day. That was when it opened. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:53
Speaker
um and just to really like lean into like being single. And um he ended up being like, this is like really a spectacularly bad movie in a way that in a way that major studio bad movies aren't bad any anymore. And that was very interesting to me. Cause it's not like I haven't seen bad major studio Uh, you know, I've been in the room for a lot of the MCU movies, but, uh, most of them have honestly not been able to hold my interest, but I did watch it with you back on, uh, it looks like March 31st. Hmm.
00:04:40
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. I, I remember hearing about it and I watched previously to this, I had watched Morbius based on a similar sort of memetic badness, but I think that was more just about the concept of Morbius. I feel like Madam Webb lived up to the promise of Morbius.
Plot and Casting of 'Madam Web'
00:05:00
Speaker
Yeah. So is Morbius worth seeing? I've been curious, but the I mean, you're a big vampire guy. OK. There he is a good vampire, though. He's a living vampire. I like bad vampire movies as well as good vampire movies. So yeah, I mean, any movie with a vampire in it at least has a vampire in it. I always. It's true. That's true. And this at least has Dr. Michael Morbius, the living vampire in it. So it's got that.
00:05:30
Speaker
ah
00:05:32
Speaker
But beyond that, not to I did think it was really strange that they used like to convey that Morbius had super speed. They use sort of smoke trails in the same way that ah like a comic book would use speed lines oh like you created that as like a visual language. OK. But to show someone moving in super speed on a movie, you don't need that because you can just show them moving super fast. Yeah.
00:06:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. Do you do I recall because I only saw the the the end of it? It looks like magical farts, doesn't it? A little bit. A little bit. A little bit. A little bit. They're multi colors. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Yeah, they are little clouds coming on out of his body. ah So, yeah, Morbius under delivered, I would say, but OK.
00:06:30
Speaker
You know, if if if it's in front of you, I'd say, yeah, roll the dice. OK. OK. To Madam Web. But Madam Web, that's obviously that's the knockout punch. And it's funny that they're both from the same studio. And I'm going to talk a lot about that kind of stuff. Oh, yeah. In the context section. Yeah. All right. Here I go, playing the context bumper.
Setting and Production Insights
00:07:33
Speaker
So Madam Web came out on Valentine's Day, 2024. You're a director S.J. Clarkson. With the tagline, her web connects them all. Mm hmm. Really, yeah I got to say a very bad tagline. It's not good, no. But also instantly mimetic.
00:07:59
Speaker
yeah yeah it's like Yeah, it went around.
00:08:05
Speaker
ah Now, Madam Webb was director S.J. Clarkson's feature film directorial debut, had never directed a movie before. Makes sense. ah Before this, she had a fairly extensive background in directing television.
00:08:20
Speaker
She had directed episodes of Heroes, House, Dexter. ah She directed the pilot for a Game of Thrones prequel called Blood Moon that got shelved. She directed a bunch of stuff for the BBC.
00:08:40
Speaker
She also directed a ah couple episodes of Jessica Jones and the defenders. So she has some experience doing superhero stuff and sort of the Marvel house style. In front of that was the Marvel TV house style.
00:08:53
Speaker
I did watch the one episode of house that you ah directed ahhu season seven episode 14. It was about a guy who was lying to his wife about being a real estate agent, but he was actually cleaning up crime scenes. And he had some sort of rash. Oh, I remember that premise, but nothing else about it. That's like half the episodes of house. It's definitely just like a run of the mill late season episode of house. Okay.
00:09:22
Speaker
ah Her background in a producer's medium like television made her a perfect candidate for a late era superhero film because the studios would have the control. She'd be used to working for a boss, you know? Right. Sure. And they want to have as much control as they can when they're making films about their most valuable IP, in this case, Marvel characters. Now,
00:09:50
Speaker
The IP in question is a little strange. Very, very strange. yeah Sony owned the rights to Spider-Man and his supporting cast of characters going back to the Sam Raimi Spider-Man films.
Sony's Rights and Production Obligations
00:10:05
Speaker
They negotiated the rights to get Spider-Man into the Marvel Disney MCU, which increased their popularity, ah but left them with a wide stable of Spider-Man supporting cast.
00:10:19
Speaker
that they could still use for themselves. Ah, okay. As best as I understand, there are a lot of people who know a lot more about this than I do. Obviously, yeah this is sort of my. It's very. Yeah. So I do have a little bit of information about how some of this works because I found some of the old articles that I had read when this came out. Would you like to know some of the information that I've got? Yes, please. OK, so part of the contractual agreement is that they have to make they have to have a major Spider-Man movie in production who works out to be every five years and nine months, roughly.
00:10:55
Speaker
That's as long as they can go or they're gonna lose the IP and So they have been for years D So that's what got us venom and Morbius because venom made money and so then they started doing more things But I think one of the like one of the first Tom Holland spider-man films was done simply to like meet that requirement so that they could keep it and um And there's a quote from the leaked emails from 2014, the Sony hack. Oh, of the studio Amy Pascal said ah she said, I only have the Spidey universe, not the Marvel universe. And in it are only his villains and relatives and girlfriend. And so they just decided to keep making movies using just the villains, relatives and girlfriends of Spider-Man. Yeah.
00:11:47
Speaker
Every five years in nine months. So undaunted. They launched the Sony Spider-Man universe or SSU as it's commonly known.
Adapting 'Madam Web' from Comics
00:11:55
Speaker
Never heard that before in my life. No, not until I looked it up. I was reading it today and I was like, I don't know what SSU is. I'm just moving on. Yeah. Yeah, it's the Sony Spider-Verse or something. ah So they released first Venom and then Venom Let There Be Carnage, both of which I thought were great. Yeah, I want to see those.
00:12:17
Speaker
Fantastic. Tom Hardy does a great job in them. He does some great physical acting right up there with Vincent D'Onofrio and Men in Black. He's doing that same sort of really impressive physical work that just sells the whole movie. And good voice work as well.
00:12:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And they've got a really fun tone, you know, and they clock in it under two hours. Nice. You know, it's yeah. A plus stuff. Well, a minus stuff. It's good. Then they got Morbius, of which that would it seems like they're showing there are some problems here. The the luster is beginning to come off.
00:12:58
Speaker
But then they release Madam Web on Valentine's Day 2024. Now, historically, comic book fans are very protective of their favorite characters and demand faithfulness to their source material when their comics get adapted to the big screen. Fortunately for Sony, no one on Earth is a fan of Madam Web.
00:13:21
Speaker
A little bit of Madam Web trivia. First movie, first ah superhero to get a major motion picture released that never had their own comic book title. Oh, wow. ah Yeah.
00:13:39
Speaker
ah So, no one cared when Dakota Johnson was cast to play Madame Webb as a beautiful 30-something paramedic, instead of the way she was traditionally written, a 70-something blind, paralyzed woman with myasthenia gravis hooked up toward an elaborate, web-shaped life-support machine. yeah Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Pretty big change there. Pretty huge change, yeah. I'm gonna say. and Yeah, the fact that they made such massive changes to the main character and that no one cared in retrospect should have been a sign that Sony was sort of on the wrong track.
00:14:19
Speaker
then no one is going to buy a ticket just because it's Madam Web. And audiences instantly, I think that's what they glommed onto at first, was a big sort of who the fuck is Madam Web kind of vibe. You can't have a character named Madam Web in the Spiderverse. Right. Yeah. And I mean, even less so than
Critique of Sony's Cinematic Universe Approach
00:14:43
Speaker
You know, when the Eternals, before the Eternals came out, there were people who would stump for the Eternals. I'm like, you know, because that was a tack Kirby title. and Yeah.
00:14:55
Speaker
Then instead of trying to fill out the cast with any ringers ah from the Spider-Man comics, you know, obviously you could be pulling any number of great villains. Spider-Man has one of the best rogues gallery in comics, ah yeah but instead they bring in Ezekiel Sims, a Spider-Man villain not introduced until 2001. Oh, wow.
00:15:18
Speaker
Uh, and whose thing is apparently, I don't own any Ezekiel's. I own over 3000 comics. I don't own a single comic with Ezekiel Sims in it. I admit my comic collection is fairly esoteric, but no Ezekiel Sims in the bunch. Uh, his main thing near as I could tell is that he is a businessman who has spider like powers. So I have a bit of back information on him. One small piece.
00:15:45
Speaker
OK, he believes he believes that there are animal totems throughout the world that change people and that they exist in like a pecking order or like a food chain and they're kind of vying for power. So the spider is one of those totems. OK, like in the Hal Johnson book, how mortal like athrops.
00:16:08
Speaker
Possibly. Yeah, that sounds like that. Listen, check out our episode, The Atomic Brain featuring Hal Johnson. They also bring in three different characters who are all named Spider-Woman and Uncle Ben. Yeah. character most Uncle Ben is a character most famous for dying in the very first appearance of Spider-Man. Yep.
00:16:35
Speaker
So with an assembled cast of characters that no one cares about or mostly cannot even identify, ah the next big conceptual decision was to set the film in 2003. This might make sense to line up the timelines, having baby Peter Parker in this film line up chronologically with more recent Spider-Man films. But Sony has also explicitly stated that Madam Webb is a standalone film which made both the setting feel arbitrary and undercuts the entire purpose of creating a so-called cinematic universe. Why would you make a movie that's about this? Like, then it's not a cinematic universe. These are just isolated films. And then why the fuck do I give a shit about Madam Web? Yeah. Yeah, it just doesn't make any conceptual sense. I love it.
00:17:31
Speaker
Now, the film's problems were not just conceptual. It was decided that the best way to approximate 2003 New York was to film in 2022 Boston. Take that Boston. Oh, sing now. We love being 10. Also, ah Madam Webb's clairvoyant abilities required filming and multiple scenes with multiple slight variations.
00:17:57
Speaker
creating very specific challenges for actors and continuity. if did And it seemed like maybe S.J. Clarkson might have got a little lost in the sauce. Oh, yeah. And you can tell this has a very TV vibe. I get a lot of TV vibes off. Yeah.
00:18:17
Speaker
Now, ah while Madam Webb was ah had made $100.5 million dollars in the global box office on a $100 million dollars budget, granting a net profit of $0.5 million, dollars it did have a $60 million dollars advertising budget, which put it solidly in the red as a business venture. Yeah. The critics were also unkind.
00:18:43
Speaker
Peter DeBruge of Variety described Madam Webb as feeling like an extended soda commercial. Hmm. That soda Pepsi Pepsi Pepsi specifically. but I'm sure the Pepsi money helped pay some of those bills. Yeah. Other superhero movies of 2024 Deadpool and Wolverine. OK. Craven the Hunter.
00:19:13
Speaker
Joker Folly a do and Venom saved the last dance. So Sony has got three out of five of the superhero movies this year. Nothing from mainline Marvel, nothing in terms of traditional superheroes from DC. Is this whole thing winding down?
00:19:38
Speaker
No, I suspect that Sony is taking advantage of a lull in, you know, because Marvel will cranks out these like slates of like, we're going to do X and X and X. So this was probably, I think this was always supposed to be a lull year.
00:20:01
Speaker
I don't know. Well, I think also after ah the lair, their last couples did not hit the way that they were hoping. Yeah. I think they went back to the drawing board on a couple. I think they changed their slate, which is interesting because like Dylan Roth pointed out in our episode on Fast and the Furies Tokyo Drift. This is a movie studio that can't do anything except make Marvel movies.
00:20:25
Speaker
So when they're not doing that, they're not doing anything. So they must really be at the drawing board trying to figure something out is what I imagine. But I can only speculate. With that, do you guys want to get on to the plot of Madam? I didn't give the brief summary. Oh, yeah. Give a brief summary, please. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I also didn't write a brief summary. Her web connects them all. Yeah, that's the brief summary. Her web connects them all.
00:20:54
Speaker
Let's get into our longer summary in the plot section.
00:21:42
Speaker
Strap in. This is a long one. We open in Peru, 1973. Mm hmm. that's where we're going to start. off Yeah. Yeah. Makes total sense. And we see a beautiful woman named Constance Webb. And she's looking at what else? A web. She explains to the guy she's there with who is named Ezekiel Sims.
00:22:06
Speaker
That she's looking for a rare Peruvian spider whose venom can cure any number of diseases. Because of peptides. That's right. Because of peptides. Not quite sure how they know about the peptides because no one's ever found the spider. But I guess somehow they do. That's a good point. ah Now, fortunately, they find the spider. Everything's going great. Yay. The end.
00:22:36
Speaker
No, in fact, Ezekiel Sims shoots three people and steals a spider. He wants that fucking spider and he's not willing to wait till sundown and sneak out with it. No, blam, blam, blam, spider's mind. Call it a day. Also, the action sequence, if we could call it it the the moment of tension, no like real camera movement, just a lot of zooming. Yeah, yeah. And that it really I remember the violence sort of coming out of nowhere. He just sort of appeared with a gun and shot two people. Yeah, yeah. No, a lot of the violence in this comes out of out of nowhere, really. It's a fairly violent film, oddly enough. Yes. And yeah, she likes to do almost like a jump scare with violence. Mm hmm. Now, all is not lost.
00:23:25
Speaker
Uh, even though Constance was shot, a group of orange colored men covered in vines that make them look strangely like Spider-Man, uh, grab the beautiful spider scientist, who's also, she's very pregnant and she has a large bullet hole in her chest. But they take her to their cave where they have a super spider bite her as she goes into labor in their natural spring birthing pool. he We then cut to 2003. Now the movies start. That's right, baby. Our cave baby is now a cave woman.
00:24:12
Speaker
She's an EMT in Queens and it's Cassandra Webb. It's Madame Webb. She and her partner, Ben Parker, Adam Scott. Boy, I wonder if this Ben Parker is related to anybody. It's a curious question. Very curious. I wonder. They're racing their ambulance through city streets, having a little friendly banter. You can tell these are the type of people that thrive on pressure, high pressure situations. They're out there saving lives. They care about people. These are the real heroes.
00:24:52
Speaker
Uh, once, uh, they're done saving this lady's life, they go and share a succulent Chinese meal and Ben invites her to her sister in-laws baby shower. I'm glazing over a lot of stuff because things are constantly happening in this movie, but nothing is important. Yeah, that's very true.
00:25:14
Speaker
Uh, she goes home and she feels disconnected, but yeah she feeds a neighborhood stray cat and she looks at her Peruvian birth certificate as well. She was born in Peru and somehow gone to the American foster care system. I don't know how that happened. That's a good point. Hope the spiders were worth it, mom. She said, yeah, that's a great line. That's a yeah fantastic line.
00:25:40
Speaker
She does look at a picture of her mother and say that, and it's a great moment. The dialogue in this movie needed a couple more passes. Yeah, definitely. But I love how expository it often is. Yes. Right. Yes. They are. There's a lot of info dumping in this movie. It's very fun. Oh yeah. a Very good time. Now the next day at work, Cassie accidentally gets trapped in a car that falls into a river.
00:26:09
Speaker
ah Ben pulls her out in what I can only assume would have been an incredibly cinematic act of heroism that we are not shown Yeah, and that's gonna be repeated throughout the movie is not showing things Yeah, instead we stay with Cassie as she has a hypoxic hallucination ah Hallucinations that look like some sort of web interesting Connecting a bunch of disparate images like a neon sign and hands covered in blood. I mean, it looks more like a.
00:26:44
Speaker
What? Like a Van de Graaff generator. It looks like, it looks like a whole lot of nothing is what it looks like. Yeah, it does. Yeah. It looks like an opening credits for a series on Netflix. Yeah. Yes. That's a really good description. The biggest problem really with all of her visions is that they're not like, they're not visually distinct visually or sonically, or like they're not distinct in any way. So you.
00:27:12
Speaker
You can't distinguish them from what's around them. yeah Yeah. Well, and I think that's supposed to add to her like your oh, she's in this hallucinogenic state because I said they're going for more like a like a thriller vibe than a superhero vibe. So I think they wanted you to be off kilter like that. But it always just felt dumb. No, nothing looked good. I agree. I felt like it wasn't There wasn't enough of a sense of like space, time, emotion, or character to be off-kilter. You know what I mean? like because Yeah, it was more just like, what? oh Oh, that was one of those? Okay. Yeah. It didn't have any impact when it happened. Yeah.
00:27:59
Speaker
now Once Cassie is dragged out of the water, we cut to Ezekiel Sims. He's still alive. He's 30 years older. I'm going to put him in his mid fifties. Sure. ah He seduces law and orders Jill Hennessy for some reason. And this is a fantastic sequence. The the opera seduction sequence and everything that happens after that is pitch perfect in its terrace. It's so good.
00:28:29
Speaker
Yeah, he plays like a little game of keep away with the program to seduce her. That he found on the floor. It cuts them in bed together. I guess apparently that means he can turn off his poison powers because he didn't poison her with his hog. and Okay, sure. Yeah, that's a good point. You know, I thought maybe he was one of those dudes where you touch him and you're poisoned, you know, and that's why he became so twisted. Right, right.
00:28:56
Speaker
Um, but it's never particularly clear and it doesn't really make that sort of decision. And also for some reason, it cast Jill Hennessy. a ah incredibly talented and beautiful actress as a nameless NSA agent who dies immediately. After ah Ezekiel Sims explains that he's been dreaming about being murdered by a trio of spider women for the last 20 years. And so he's trying to hunt them down and kill them. And that's why he needs special NSA facial recognition software. Give me the codes before my poison kills you.
00:29:34
Speaker
Yeah, he's gonna do bad things with the and NSA software, not like what the NSA would use. No. They're not looking for spider women. No. no Bad people.
00:29:47
Speaker
and Yeah, and the the software where you give it a vague description of someone, perhaps even wearing a mask and it will just make that a real person. be Oh, that that's Jim. Go kill Jim. He's the person that you should kill based on something you saw in your dream. You just need the face to look at any kind of camera and then it's and then it's taken care of. It's that easy. Yeah.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah, just all we need is a description of them in a dream wearing a mask. We'll take it from there. Mm hmm. Now. Also, I just want to talk a little bit about a Ezekiel Sims motivation. Sure. Yeah. ah And that his only motivation is to kill these three girls before they kill him. And he says he's like he's built something.
00:30:39
Speaker
And he has superpowers from presumably the magical spider. Yeah. That he seemed to have, what, super strength, wall crawling. Yeah. i mean And the ability to deliver poison. Well, he started going gray and in his dreams, he's more gray. So I think he is still aging. He is maybe relatively young. Yeah.
00:31:04
Speaker
Or maybe he stays physically powerful as he ages. I don't know. Maybe just he's only his hair ages. Once again, not very clear. so So this is interesting. So I have a confession to make. I own Madam Web, the Steel Book, the forecast. Oh, nice. Look, I watched all of the bonus features for this particular podcast.
00:31:24
Speaker
And he the character who plays Ezekiel Sims talked about his motivations and they were very confusing because he was like he's a guy who came from being really poor. You know, he watched his parents like wither away. And he's so what he is doing is he is doing it for the greater good. And it was like, what?
00:31:47
Speaker
Because he's helping out poor people, well, a poor person himself. Yeah, I guess himself. He's helping himself to superpowers to right the wrongs of a poor childhood. And that seemed to be his motivation. Yeah, just revenge against capitalists, I guess. And then he's haunted by the people who are going to kill him. So he thinks, oh, I should probably kill those people before they kill me, because he's just a human who doesn't want to die. Like, I'm sure all of us don't want to die.
00:32:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. No, that part makes sense. Yeah. It just as he didn't feel very flushed out to me. no like this This is his only thing. I will say that watching the production, like watching the featurettes is just aggravating because a lot of times they're like, we're doing this or we're doing that. It's like, but you didn't do that. Like these action sequences and all this fighting were on wires. It's like for literally like a minute and 10 seconds of the film. Like you're not in your suits for very long.
00:32:48
Speaker
Is there an extended cut somewhere? I hope so. I hope so. Well, now the next day Cassie goes to the baby shower. Uh, first there's a party game where they all need to write down on a slip of paper, a fond memory of their mother. And when they draw Cassie's paper, oh, I'm sorry, am I skipping something speeding?
00:33:13
Speaker
Well, I do think it's important that she didn't want to go to the baby shower because you didn't want to get roped into all the dumb baby shower games with all the women who she doesn't know. Very understandable. And we then assert her that she'd be able to hang out with the paramedics who are men who she happened to happen to be the people that she knows. And instead he lets her get roped in.
00:33:38
Speaker
it sucks Like I have felt this way and yeah baby showers and it's it sucks. I completely empathize with her in this situation. And I find ah Dakota Johnson to be ah perfectly good in this movie. She is not at all the problem. I think the way her character is written is a little strange just in terms of Like she's very much against doing anything. She just doesn't want to be here today. Yeah. And it's weird when like the movie is so bad that you feel like you can't like Dakota Johnson just doesn't want to be in this movie is the main vibe that you get from her character. Yeah. But yeah, she and Adam Scott and even Mike Epps all comport themselves fairly well. Everyone else in the movie, I'm going to give a big ah wet thumbs down to.
00:34:39
Speaker
Anyway, where was it? Yes, the baby shower. They're playing their first baby game where they need to write down a memory of their mother. Now, of course, Cassie's mother died in childbirth. So she just slips in a blank sheet of paper. instead of Instead of just not putting a piece of paper in. Exactly. Which is like really wonderful. Just palm the paper, Cassie. yeah You knew they were going to draw all the paper.
00:35:08
Speaker
Come on. And then they draw her paper and she, instead of being like, Oh, I spaced out. Oh, my mom, I remember, uh, you know, I don't want to talk about it. She died when I was young. yeah Boom. But she instead is like, well, my mom died in childbirth.
00:35:27
Speaker
But I lived, so that's pretty good. And, you know, it was in the Amazon because she was obsessed with spiders. okay Yeah, it is probably like the best scene in the movie in terms of being good. One hundred percent. I okay i think they deserve it. She did not want to be there.
00:35:49
Speaker
Yeah, I could see this scene working very well in a sitcom, something like a new girl or something like that. You know what I mean? Like, oh, she's the quirky outsider girl and that it had a decent energy. It played it. It was funny. Then she starts getting some clairvoyant flashes. She's getting clairvoyant flashes now ever since she got out of that wreck. It's interesting, right?
00:36:14
Speaker
Yeah. Ever since she saw how her web connected them all, she started ah getting these flashes. And so she's getting flashes in the ah baby name guessing thing. And she thinks that she gets asked again, but just she's actually like groundhog daying herself in her mind. Yeah. You know, she's getting flashes, but she gets called out of the situation. Thank God it's getting so awkward.
00:36:43
Speaker
Luckily, there's been a huge explosion down at the industrial fireworks warehouse. Yeah. The Pepsi brand industrial fireworks warehouse for some reason. For some reason, I love it. I love it's a fireworks warehouse. Yeah, that's great. That's some great comic book stuff. Now. She's giving chest compressions to a guy that got blown up.
00:37:11
Speaker
when Cassie starts getting a bunch of flashes of possible near futures. The only thing she can really suss out for sure is that her boss, O'Neill, played by Mike Epps, is about to get t-boned by a garbage truck. She tries to stop him and fails, and then he instantly gets t-boned by a garbage truck. Boom. It's so funny to laugh at that, but yeah, it's pretty spectacular.
00:37:37
Speaker
It's so like she turns around and then just slam. Yeah, and it's in the background. It's out of focus. Yeah, but you know the way the shot is framed and the way you can see this motherfucker is about to get slammed. And so he does. A lot of people get hit by cars in this movie. Yes, a lot of vehicular action. Yeah, a lot, actually.
00:38:03
Speaker
Uh, now Ben tries to comfort her while she's trying to resuscitate O'Neill and failing. And he says, Hey, there's nothing you could have done, which is kind of a weird thing to say to somebody after you both watched your boss die.
00:38:20
Speaker
yeah yeah Hey, you know, don't, don't take it personal. Uh, now, meanwhile, Sims has instructed his lady, Toadie, who I'm sure has a name and looks vaguely familiar. She's on girls, I think. Okay. Didn't watch girls, but I believe it. Oh, is that Sosa Mamet? I want to say yes.
00:38:44
Speaker
OK, I know she's in this, so OK. Yeah, that's her then. And yeah, I don't actually know her character's name. I don't think they she was fun. No, she's. She's in the evil tech nerd role. Do a little reluctance, but still they're not goth enough. Yeah, she needed air like more of a look no jewelry in her face. No, we make up her normal hair.
00:39:13
Speaker
She needed one of those chains that goes from a nose ring to an earring. Yeah, that makes sense. ah Especially in 2003, and she's a hacker character. Exactly. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. But ah she started using the and NSA software to find the three spider women. She's like, don't worry. I I typed in those dreams that you wrote down.
00:39:40
Speaker
And it it figured out that it was these three ladies. It was ah Anya and Juliet. Julia. Julia and Mandy.
00:39:54
Speaker
man Yeah, I had to write them down. These three characters suck. They're terrible. They really are. yeah Any time they're on screen, they suck.
00:40:14
Speaker
There's no two ways about it. They are so bad. Oh, and poor, uh, for what's her name? Sydney Sweeney. Yeah. For Sydney Sweeney, the way they styled her and her makeup in this movie, they made her look like Marlon Wayans in white chicks. I don't know what was going on. She looks wild. She's a beautiful woman and they made her look wild in this movie.
00:40:40
Speaker
She looks like she's wearing a costume. And I don't mean that as a compliment. Right. No, she looks like she's wearing a Julia costume that she got it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Now, ah Cassie, feeling kind of despondent after she went to the doctor, the doctor says, well, it seems like you have some sort of weird peptides, but other than that, everything's normal.
00:41:03
Speaker
ah Cassie, she's feeling very despondent, so she goes and she lies on her couch and watches The Christmas Carol in the middle of August for some reason. I love this part. Someone's like, just go home and watch an old movie. It's like, yeah, I'll put on Christmas Carol. It's like, why? You really like that movie that much? Or is it just because the script needs it? Has strong feelings about Christmas growing up in the New York City foster care system. Yeah.
00:41:32
Speaker
And the only time I've ever seen someone grow up in the foster system in a movie and been like, I was actually, it was great for me. I really liked the foster system. Uh, but yeah, she's watching Christmas Carol on her 2003 CRT TV while Ben leaves a message on her 2003 answering machine telling her how to get to O'Neill's funeral. It's up in Poughkeepsie.
00:41:57
Speaker
Uh, she was a little immense to the Scrooge on TV that you can't change anything. Yeah. Can't change anything Scrooge. Uh, but then, uh, she sees the future and then there's an incident involving some clairvoyance and a bowl of popcorn in the microwave and, uh, a bird flying into her window. And then she opens the window and the bird doesn't fly into the window and die. It lives.
00:42:26
Speaker
She realizes she can change things. And I just want to point out that this is the one time in which they break the logic of what they set up, because in every other situation, she always stays in the same place when she's having the flashes. In this one, she's on the couch when she starts to have the flashes from what I can tell. And then she's just at the window. And it's just like, well, that's convenient. Yeah. Yeah, there is. ah This one's probably the roughest one. Yeah.
00:42:53
Speaker
um And also it proves that she could have saved O'Neill. Yeah. She never really grapples with that. No, let's not touch on that. And but yeah, it does ah reveal that this film does not take place in a deterministic universe, which you'd like for an action narrative. You don't want to feel like all the pieces are already in place. the So Cassie heads to Grand Central Terminal to Poughkeepsie for the funeral.
00:43:22
Speaker
And it turns out that the three spider women are there, too. And Sims is not far behind having picked them up on the and NSA software. His assistants like they're at Grand Central Terminal. They're going to Poughkeepsie. All three of them are there. Isn't that funny? It's a weird coincidence. Now, the actor that plays Sims. Yeah. Now is a good time to mention all his dialogue has been 80 yard.
00:43:51
Speaker
Yeah, pretty heavy, pretty heavy. Very strange. And he is not doing a lot. No, and he's often shoeless. Yes, he likes to go around barefoot. That's part of his thing. ah Except when he's in his Spider-Man costume, he wears a costume that looks exactly like Spider-Man's, except for the different color scheme. Yep.
00:44:18
Speaker
which is semiautically so strange. Yeah. When he first showed up and that then like, like they don't show him putting it on. They don't show it like hanging in his closet. Instead, he just shows up wearing it. And it's just like, what is that? but No, that's not Spider-Man. That's a bad guy. It's really strange. It's a really strange moment.
00:44:41
Speaker
Um, it's also, it's like horrible, unattractive neoprene that all superhero costumes have been for the last like 20 years. And I just, I hate them. I hate them. Yeah. Put some cloth on there. Yeah. Poor actors must be so sweaty all the time. Oh yeah. Think of their balls. And while it wicks moisture away, it's wicking now. That's the technology.
00:45:11
Speaker
Uh, now Webb starts getting flashes of Sims murdering the girls on the train. So she instantly starts yelling at them. You, you, you get off the train. She takes one of their skateboards. She's like, we're all getting off the train. We're gonna have the train right now. I'm emerging to see medical services. We're getting off the train. And then they get off the train and they're like, why'd you take us off the train? They're like, because that guy's trying to kill you and it's Sims and he's in his suit and he's crawling on the ceiling. Yeah.
00:45:42
Speaker
And it's weird. And it's kind of scary. I'll give it a little credit. It's very, it's kind of unnerving to see Spider-Man crawling over the surface of the subway. Now Cassie and the gals evade Sims and the cops who think that Cassie is kidnapping the radical teens and they steal a cab. The teens did see Sims in his evil spider suit killing cops and crawling on the ceiling. So they're freaked out enough to go with her.
00:46:12
Speaker
and She drives them to the middle of the woods somewhere, tells them that ah while she can see a few minutes in the future, sometimes other than that, she has no idea what's going on. You keep asking her like, who is that guy? I don't know. Why are you doing this? I don't know. Why does he want to kill? I don't know. It's a very boring, strange scene. Yeah. Yeah. It's very.
00:46:41
Speaker
Pointless there's no reason to have that same. Yeah, they could have asked her all those questions off-camera I think that it's only notable I think that the way she treats these girls Is the way that a male character would treat these girls in those movies in that I don't at no point I Is she maternal or nurturing or even like she doesn't, she does not approach them as, as, uh, you know, we're all girls. Let's stick together. No, she's just, she's just an asshole. She doesn't, she doesn't like anybody except for Ben and that cat, that straight cat, but even then it's
00:47:26
Speaker
that She mostly treats them as like burdens yeah Yeah, she is looking for a way out of this situation as soon as she is into it Yeah, which is great for a main character who hasn't found themselves in a situation Yeah, yeah, like it's it's it's a novelty and I think it can work, but I don't feel like it works very well here No, yeah no, no, no, no, no now She tells them to hang tight while she does some more research. Just stay here in the woods and don't go anywhere. Here's some beef jerky. I'll be back in a couple of hours. Something that every teen loves to hear. And now we get the three teens interacting with each other. We can see a little bit of their individual personalities, which near as I can tell are ah brainy, cowardly and ah brazen.
00:48:25
Speaker
Sure. Yeah, that sounds about right. ah They were kind of tough to suss. They kind of remind me of, if you ever watch the show, Evil, the Four Daughters on Evil. Aw, but I love the Bouchard girls, and I hate these girls. But I know what you mean, yeah, that they're a collective.
00:48:50
Speaker
Yeah, they they act as a single character in terms of the plot. Now Cassie heads back home to read more of her mom's diary. And there she learns about the mysterious Arranas. The Spider People. Mm-hmm. Not Spider-Man, Spider People. The Spider People. Legally distinct. Yes, the legally distinct Spider People. And also she sees a picture of her mother with Sims.
00:49:19
Speaker
boom Ezekiel Simms new Constance Webb? What a twist! Except we already knew it. And now she knows it. Back in the woods, the teens have obviously decided not to stay where they are told, and instead walk over to a nearby diner. and They banter and they flirt with boys before being recognized from a cover story on the Daily Bugle.
00:49:45
Speaker
Ezekiel Sims intercepts a call to the cops and heads out to the diner to kill them all. They also spend their time dancing on a diner table to Britney Spears hit song, Toxic. yeah Now, Cassie gets a vision of Sims killing them, but changes the future by driving her cab into the front of the diner, hitting Sims with the cab.
00:50:09
Speaker
She helps the gals escape and yells at them for being so irresponsible. Our classic Gen X are yelling at millennials, am I right?
00:50:19
Speaker
and Meanwhile, Sims's Todi tells him that Madame Webb is in fact Constant Webb's daughter. Small world. It's wild. He also tells his Todi, I don't really care. Follow the girls.
00:50:33
Speaker
Madam Webb means nothing to me. Despite the fact that Madam Webb is probably his best lead as to where the girls are. Hey, he's his own person. Yeah, no, yeah he's pursuing his own leads in his own way. I don't need to follow Webb to get to the girls. I'll follow the girls. Boom. Now, Cassie takes the gals to a motel.
00:50:58
Speaker
They all explain that they are effectively, in their own ways, parentless and need Madam Webb to take care of them. That night, she has a dream where Sims tells her that he's trying to kill the girls before they gain superpowers and kill him in about 10 years. I don't know why this happens.
00:51:17
Speaker
I don't know why he told her this information. I don't understand like this. So this is the fourth time I've seen the movie and it yeah feels like maybe he's reached. Finally, I was like trying to pay attention and I was like, I feel like maybe he's like reaching into her dream to come after her and kill her in her dream. But I don't know if he can do that.
00:51:39
Speaker
He also confesses he's like, no one has understood the poison like you. It's like, why are you telling her, why are you giving it all away to her? Like what, what advantage if he isn't doing this? What's the point? if there What if it's just that they're connected by the neurotoxin. So as long as she has that in her system, they shared dreams. So neither one of them is is willing.
00:52:05
Speaker
I mean, that could be plausible. But you have to tell them, but you have to tell the truth in dreams. so Yeah, of course, of course you do. Yeah. I mean, you can't lie and no one can make anything up and you're going to. That's why all my dreams are just true things that have happened. Yeah. Because otherwise I'd be lying to myself. And you don't do that. Not in a dream. No, not in a dream, not in real life. Now she wakes up from the dream. Makes sure that the gals can do team CPR and then tells them that she's going to Peru.
00:52:35
Speaker
Well, no, actually someone else tells her that she's going to Peru. It's what she's doing. Yeah. Anya's like, you have to go to Peru. And she's like, yep, I do have to go to Peru. I can see myself in Peru. Having a Mai Tai. Just in the airport lounge. I will rush, but I will have a Mai Tai in the lounge.
00:53:02
Speaker
Now, ah Ben keeps an eye on them with the help of his pregnant sister-in-law, May Parker. Yeah. No, I'm sorry. Mary Parker. There we go. May Parker does not appear in this film. They do not have the rights to Aunt May. Oh, okay. I'm assuming. ah Next thing we know, Cassie is in the Amazon rainforest and her spider Dula emerges from the trees.
00:53:32
Speaker
He takes her to the pool where she was born and then leads her on a vision quest where she learns that the whole reason Constance Webb went to the jungle was to find a cure for Cassie's Myosthenia gravis. It turns out they did carry that over for the comic. Can I do her line in her in the voice that she uses? Absolutely. ah But I don't have a neuromuscular disorder.
00:54:01
Speaker
Yeah. OK, I thought you were going to do her next line. You did it, mom. It was all worth it. She reaches back in her memory to tell her mom who is dead, that it was all fine and mom in the memory learns. And I guess in heaven. Is now with the understanding that I mean, was successful.
00:54:28
Speaker
You have to realize that Madam Web has a lot of powers. It's true. Nothing will see or use them. She can dreamwalk and she can commune with the dead yeah if she encounters them through her own memory. Yeah. So they. And of course, we also learned that she's going to be gaining a new power. Yeah. The power to be in multiple places at once. Like a spider. The way a spider can do it.
00:54:57
Speaker
And specifically, the spider doula, whose name is Santiago, says to her, when you take on the responsibility, great power will come. Yeah, that's nothing. I've never heard a line very similar to that in any other film before. It's like someone hit Stanley in the head with a mallet. yeah What why did Spider-Man say? Something, responsibility and power are in there.
00:55:26
Speaker
It's so clunky. Yeah. Uh, now, uh, however, she does not learn anything about how she can stop Ezekiel Sims. Don't need to. So she returns home. Uh, Becky Queens, Mrs. Parker's water breaks. Ben takes her and for some reason the assorted spider women to the hospital. This puts him back on Sims software's radar. So he's back on the hunt.
00:55:57
Speaker
Luckily. Okay. Ben is a paramedic. He would know how to deliver a baby. All they had to do was put in one line where his sister-in-law doesn't want him looking at her junk or he doesn't want, you know, something like that. They just had to put that one line in there, but they didn't. Drives me crazy. They said it was a month early so I can understand wanting to get her to a hospital for postnatal care.
00:56:23
Speaker
for the baby. Right. But then you let one of the girls drive while he's. Come on. Do they even have licenses? They may not have licenses. New York City, not everybody gets licenses. It's true. And they're bare they might not even be 16. I don't know exactly how old they're supposed to be. we I know that they're teenagers. It is stated that they're teenagers, but they're radical teens that we know. No, they certainly are radical teens.
00:56:50
Speaker
whether they have personalities that clash in interesting ways oh yes boy i mean i look at the three of us and i'm like greg you are such an onya am i right yeah yeah every friend group has got an onya and uh And ah in the Juliet of Maddie, Maddie Maddie Maddie Frank can't be mad. OK, Maddie, and I guess it's Maddie. That is not going to stick. Now, ah there's a. Oh, fuck. All right. yeah They're on the street ambulance. Yes, Cassie steals an ambulance and crashes it into Sims, allowing Ben and Mary to escape. She's like, get Mary out of here, get her to the hospital.
00:57:38
Speaker
And thus, Sims doesn't get to kill them with a grenade. He just blows up either an empty car or an innocent bystander. And it's fine. It's just more. Lots of innocent bystanders die in this. Yeah. A lot of people, a lot of people die in this movie. Yeah. ah There is a chase in an ambulance with a decent defibrillator gang where Sims jumps on the roof and then they zap the roof of the defibrillator. Not bad. I'll give them that one.
00:58:04
Speaker
Um, then they returned to the half destroyed fireworks warehouse where madam web will, will weave a trap. If you will, like some sort of predatory animal, uh, a wasp maybe.
00:58:23
Speaker
and
00:58:28
Speaker
They also, uh, Sims follows them. It was Chekhov's fireworks warehouse the whole time. Oh yeah. Uh, they start throwing road flares into various boxes of fireworks, hoping that Cassie psychic powers will allow them to assess successfully avoid being blown up by fireworks, but that will blow up Sims instead. That's the plan near as I can tell.
00:58:55
Speaker
ah They run up to the roof. Cassie calls in a helicopter to airlift them out of there, only for the helicopter to be blown up by an industrial firework. and that woman' come i got to set i yeah She called them in knowing that would happen. That's fucked up. Yeah.
00:59:16
Speaker
Now eventually she uses her ah being in multiple places power to save the three gals who are clinging to various delicate structures in the collapsing building and then uses her clairvoyance powers to trap Ezekiel Sims under a giant collapsing neon Pepsi sign that crushes him.
00:59:42
Speaker
Unfortunately, then Cassie, once again, classic Cassie, she falls in the river. A lot of a lot of repeated events in this movie comes in twos. Yeah. Yeah. and Everything comes in twos. Yeah, that's a that's a light motif. That's almost like the movie predicts itself. So very boyantly. So strange. What a what a web.
01:00:09
Speaker
Uh, so unfortunately while she's in the river, she does get shot in the face with an industrial firework, instantly blinding her. Uh, she gets dragged out of the river again, resuscitate again, this time using Chekhov's teamwork CPR. And you must've known they were going to need it. That's why she trained them. Yeah. Smart play, Madam web. Oh yeah. Her eyes are all fucked up though.
01:00:36
Speaker
Uh, we get it a little bit of her in the hospital where the gals are all like, madam we Madam Web. And she's like, we're family. Flash forward to them all living. you Oh, also, Spider-Man is born. Spider-Man gets born. Happy birthday, baby. Spider-Man born 2003. Yeah. Flash forward to all of them living in a big apartment together. Madam Web is now blind and for some reason in a wheelchair.
01:01:08
Speaker
Yeah. ye Don't, don't know why that happened, but I suppose it's not my business. Uh, but her psychic powers are now stronger than ever. And she's wearing some really funky statement sunglasses. Yeah. Which you can see her eyes through and yeah she's definitely not acting like a person who's blind. No, she's like moving your eyes to look at people at various times. It was like, just make the glasses reflective or something. There's a way to block.
01:01:37
Speaker
Her physical eyes showing. that' That's probably pretty easy. I do like the idea of someone else giving her those sunglasses and be like, these are normal sunglasses like a normal person. She does. They look not she looks so wild. And also she does the classic. ah She does the classic. God bless you. Hachu. Oh, yeah. Thank you. That's how you know she's got that psychic shit going on. Yeah.
01:02:07
Speaker
We then get a flash forward to all of them in their very bad superhero outfits. Yeah. And then we cut to the smooth sounds of the cranberries. Yeah. Roll credits. And when the cranberries come in, yeah it's so good because it's like the first part of the movie where you feel anything. Yeah. um And that is oh how art. This was a great song in 1992.
01:02:36
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah. It's the last shot was Madam Web with some even crazier glasses just raising one eyebrow above the glasses. Can't see your eyes or her expression, but you do get just that one solid eyebrow right above these stupid oversized glasses. Yeah, they're like ski goggles. Yeah, they're massive. Well, final thoughts, five stars. Who wants to kick us off? Greg, you seem like the superfan.
01:03:06
Speaker
Yeah, I am a super fan, which is going to be surprising that I was torn between giving this like three and a half and four stars, though it is a five star recommendation. It's just actually it's like it's a good, bad movie, but it is also just bad. Like it is possible you could watch this movie and just become aggravated like that's a part of the joy for me is it's this. ah Uh, I don't want to call it a hate watch because it's not that, but I do sometimes just be like, why are you doing this? What is this about? Why would you choose to do this? Yeah, very masochistic. So for that, we're going to say it's a four, uh, maybe go down to a three and a half though. Admittedly, again, five star recommendation. If you like a bad movie, see this one, but just, you know, you could come away angry. How about you, Anna?
01:03:52
Speaker
Um, I, you know, this is a, this is a four star bad movie for me too. Not a four star movie, a four star bad movie. And, and a lot of that is, you know, I really, even, even though I don't think it's really intentional, I love that Madame Webb is an asshole and I think Dakota Johnson's performance as that asshole is very good and very fun. And, um,
01:04:20
Speaker
Yeah, I had ah had a great time. Well, I'm going to give this one. I gave it four and a half stars. ah Mostly because. um For a lot, a lot of the stuff that we've been watching lately have been what I like to think of as guilty pleasures. You know what I mean? Where it's a movie that's actually does a lot of things quite well, or it does at least one thing quite well and everything else about it is bad. And you can, but you can really focus in on the thing that's good about it. Do you know what I mean? yeah Yeah. And that's why I've been having like such sort of positive feedback and like, yeah, this is a ah real slam dunk. You know, this is a secret gem for so many things that we've been watching lately.
01:05:01
Speaker
Whereas this is just straight up not good. No, this is just a good old bad movie. um Now, here's what I wrote down. They say we no longer live in an age of miracles, that God doesn't talk to us anymore, and that we're the end of history.
01:05:21
Speaker
is It's easy to look back through all time and think the golden age of big budget bad movies is in the past. That the studio system will sand down all the rough edges to create something entirely uninteresting. Madam Web creates a new type of bad movie. One where everything has been sanded down to the point where there's nothing left. yeah and Nothing. Yeah, it's it's I i remember the my initial reaction after watching the first one was that wasn't, um that wasn't a movie. That wasn't anything. Yeah. It's so, it's like, uh, like a Zen Cohen, you know what I mean? Like a raccoon washing a piece of angel food cake. It just, just falls to pieces in, uh, in your hands. It's an interesting analogy that you've chosen. Thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself, my dove.
01:06:18
Speaker
Now I believe Greg, you prepared our segment for this week. Yeah, I've got a lot to say. So let's get into it. Let's get into it. Cause it's fixing time.
01:06:42
Speaker
This fucking movie.
01:07:12
Speaker
Now, Greg, I'm very curious to hear what you have to propose, because I think the problems with this movie are so bone deep, yeah so conceptual. Yes. So and just baked in from the very beginning. I don't know where you'd even start. What do you got for us, big dog? So this is the thing, even from the first time I watched this movie, I was already just being like, oh, you shouldn't do that. That's why this is wrong. This doesn't work because of that. So what my proposing A major change and a minor change. And the major change is more all-encompassing. The minor change is we're just going to figure out why Ezekiel Simms is ADR'd all the time and why he's not wearing his shoes. And we're going to end that.
01:07:53
Speaker
because it's a capital distraction, the lack of shoes, even if there's some like in world logical reason why they have chosen to do it. When you see it, it's like, why are you walking on a New York city street with no socks or shoes on? Like this is a really poor decision. I feel like if they, they should have at least at one point when introducing his character shown a closeup of his fucking feet so that you weren't just like seeing it out of the side of your eye and be like, wait, is that guy now wearing fucking shoes? And anytime you see it, it's just like, wait, what? And so you're immediately just pulled out. It's just a big distraction. And I think it just goes to show that while they may have been trying to do something, they didn't understand what they were doing. ah Which brings me to my larger point, which is the major change, which is that we have to teach this movie, or this movie has to realize that not doing things isn't fun. We want to do things. aha so So like.
01:08:48
Speaker
Like for example, we're never going to say Spider-Man. We're never going to say Peter Parker. Well, let's try to avoid situations in which like the, the baby shower where it's like, we're not going to say the person's name. I don't know enough about comics that were just like, why do they, why won't they just say the baby's name? Like I don't get why they won't do it and it becomes very aggravating, but there's also, it's a superhero movie in which the superheroes don't use any superpowers and never get in their suits.
01:09:15
Speaker
It is a superhero movie in which there are action scenes in which there aren't action scenes because it's just a lot of confusing flash forwards where you're just like, are we in the present time? Like the way that they do the flash forwards is awful. It like uses horrendous sounds to be like, we're going back to that balloon popping. It's like, I don't want to hear a balloon pop multiple times. I don't know why we're bouncing around. It makes me not understand where we're going. And then you see three people get murdered.
01:09:43
Speaker
And then that doesn't happen because someone gets hit by a car and then you don't have an action sequence. And it's just like, why, why would you, you like, they keep making setups for things to not happen. And it's really bizarre. So I have a whole new plot. I have a whole new plot. So this is how, i'm this is how, this is how we run it. I think we start out on a breakfast club like situation with the three girls in detention.
01:10:08
Speaker
on a Saturday after school or something. They're at each other's throats. The teachers like, listen, if you're not going to sit quietly and doing your homework, you're going to learn about each other. And what they learn is that they're not all so different and that maybe they do like each other. So they get out into the hallway and they realize one doesn't really have parents because they're gone all the time. And the other two just don't have parents. They need someplace to go. So the ones like, well,
01:10:31
Speaker
I need help with my homework and you can stay at my house and I got a fridge full of food. So like, okay, great. They get in a cab. They're talking because they like each other. Ezekiel Sims is the driver. He realizes that they don't have people looking after them. And he's like, it's great that you found each other. I was abandoned as a child, but it's unfortunate that I found you. He gases them. They pass out. He opens up the windows. You get to see him like passed out in the back of the cab.
01:10:55
Speaker
We cut to the cab at a warehouse, across the street is Cassie. She is helping a man, saving his life, not in a real dire situation, because we don't want all the death that happens in the movie. There's far too much death in the movie. You get to watch three teenagers get killed multiple times for no reason, and it never happens, which is bizarre. So she saves them, but gets hit in the head by Ben opening the ambulance door, which is where she starts to get the flash in a dream of like the three girls strapped to tables with spiders on their chests.
01:11:25
Speaker
And she hears a scream and then she wakes up and she hears a scream coming from the building across the street. And she's like, Ben, they're screaming in there. We got to go. So she runs across the street and he's like, what's screaming? And then he hears the scream because that was a flash forward. She bursts in. This distracts Ezekiel. They use their new spider powers to break out. They get out and they're like, what is going on? So she just takes them back to her apartment where they start talking about what's going on. She realizes that the spider Uh, from her dreams slash their experiences is the same one from her mother's journal. So she pulls that out. The picture of Ezekiel Sims falls out and they're all just like, this is crazy. So they go on the lamb realizing we got to get away from all of this. So this takes her to the hotel where our spider doula comes to her in a dream. And he's like, I'm coming to find you meet me at O'Hare airport. And so they go to O'Hare airport where he gets detained in a minor infraction. It's not something to do with like.
01:12:20
Speaker
him being an illegal alien or anything. It's just like he brought cheese or something undeclared. So he's detained. Cassie convinces Ben that he composes like a lawyer or authority figure. And he's like, I can't do that. She's like, you're basically a lawyer. And he's like, I took one semester of law classes. And she's like, yeah, you're basically a lawyer. And then uses her future site to like guide him through a precarious you know, authoritative, you know, it's like, no, no, no, he doesn't want to say that what he means that, you know, like this kind of a thing. Yeah, because yeah, yeah, yeah. You're no D'Burgiac situation. We get our guy out. He's the one who explains that Ezekiel Sims, you know, did all the stuff that he did in the movie, killed Cassie's mother, got the spider, but was cursed by it and is now trying to fix the curse. I don't know what the curse is. It's probably unimportant. Probably the poison touch thing. Yeah. OK, that works for me.
01:13:11
Speaker
Uh, and so he's trying to experiment on people to figure out what he can do to prevent this curse from him, which is what get us our spider women. and So then they start tracking him down. Uh, and that's what the second act is, is them actually using their spider powers, but having troubles with it, learning things out. Their biggest issue, I think with all of them is that they don't trust each other. They get along, but because they've always been on their own, they can't trust. And so this leads to Cassie or something is going to lead to Cassie going blind.
01:13:41
Speaker
She's going to be really sad about it, you know, afterward and someone's going to throw an orange and she's going to catch it and they're going to go, you can see. And she's like, I did see that. And then spider do is going to pop out of the door and he's like, and I made you all suits. And they're going to be like, you know how to make suits. And he's like, I had a lot of time on my hands in the jungle or some kind of joke.
01:14:01
Speaker
yeah And then we're going to proceed to the end where they track him down and they finally start communicating to each other. And I think at this point we could have like three or four Cassie's fighting with the with the women so that it's like several action scenes being spliced together and things. I think it could be exciting. I think generally that the the.
01:14:21
Speaker
fireworks action sequence. The only action sequence in the movie is closer to what you want this to be because it's like kind of interesting. She's like, everybody duck and they duck and like things fly over. It's like, yeah, this is what we need to see. We don't need to see her being like, oh, that guy sat down on the train once and said, is this the train to Mount Vernon?
01:14:39
Speaker
Nobody cares about that. And then he's gone and then he sits down again. He's like, is this to train him out there? He's like, this is tedious and boring. We know she can see into the future. So just have her use that to protect people. And then the Pepsi sign falls on him. He doesn't die. He just gets arrested. And then we have the movie. I love it. Wow. It addresses like, I think when I look at, at Madam Web, I got to tell you, I love that. I love what you came up with.
01:15:08
Speaker
Thank you. When I look at Madam Web, I think it almost feels like they're trying to do what people have been asking comic book movies to do for a little while, which is try something a little bit different genre wise and try not to have so many like laser fights about a glowing cube or a portal to somewhere. Yeah. And so they took those things out, but they didn't put anything back in. No. And I think you successfully put things in the movie. which yeah mean Yeah, I gave the characters motivation and room to grow.
01:15:48
Speaker
Yeah. That's what I was trying to do anyway. Instead of just making them people who were annoyed to be with each other. Yeah. And it's like you can have someone be disaffected and if there's a choice to not make a choice, but it's a lot more interesting to watch someone choose to do something. And that's a part of it. It's just being like, no, I do have to step up and do this. And you want to do that a lot sooner than the last 20 minutes. Yeah. Right. Yes. Yes. Her refusal of the call should have been in act one and not the turn of act two to three. Exactly.
01:16:18
Speaker
That's the real fix in time folks. Well, and also the thing that Greg said, which was much better. Now it's time for my wife's got a game, right? I do. Yes. God, this is the best, best bad movie of the year awards ever.
01:16:39
Speaker
I'm going to give this award an award. I want that to be the name of something. My wife's going to give us a game, I think, or what I don't remember what you said. My wife's got a game for us, right? <unk>s It's a great category. It's a great segment. Yeah. Well, let's let's hit it. It's time for a little. This guy played that guy.
01:17:06
Speaker
This guy played that guy.
01:17:28
Speaker
Alright, so as Chris explained at length, this is NOT an MCU film despite having Marvel characters in it. So this is a game in which I will give you an actor or actors who played a Marvel character outside of the MCU and um you'll kind you'll bring in with your name and try to tell me the character for a point and then for an extra point you can tell me who plays that character in the MCU.
01:18:03
Speaker
so who can i am convinced okay yeah Here's my example the example. My example is if I said Toby McGuire and Andrew Garfield, ahha you would ring in and say, they played Spider-Man. And then for a bonus point who plays him in the MCU, it's little Mr. Tom Holland.
01:18:27
Speaker
okay and okay All right. Sounds great. And yeah, I'll just let you guys ring in and you can steal. Okay. First one. Oh, and this does also cover ah there's a couple of MCU TV shows and and um a one that's like an upcoming announced role, but Anyway, okay. and okay ah Number one, ah this character has been played by Johan Griffith and Miles Teller. Oh, Chris. Yes. ah Mr. Fantastic? Yes, indeed. a Okay. And you know,
01:19:20
Speaker
And it it's not going to be Krasinski, is it? um I'll give you a point for Krasinski. He played him in Deadpool and Wolverine, but he also played him in Doctor Strange multiverse events. Oh, he did. OK, but Pedro Pascal is going to play him in the upcoming Fantastic Four. Yeah, he does not. a Apparently Krasinski not sexy enough.
01:19:49
Speaker
How about that? Tough but fair. All right. This character played by Reb Brown and Matt Salinger.
01:20:02
Speaker
Chris? Yes. Captain America? Yes. Oh, wow. Very good. and Matt Salinger is in the Alberpian directed one. Reb Brown's from one from the 70s. And then who plays them in the MCU?
01:20:19
Speaker
Uh, that's, uh, Chris. Yeah, that's, that's Chris. Not that one. I keep getting it. I keep getting it.
01:20:32
Speaker
He's like, it's a he's not in my top three courses. No, he might be number three. Chris Evans. Yes. very All right. I couldn't get Hemsworth out of my mind. Yeah. Yeah.
01:20:47
Speaker
Uh, Jennifer Connolly. Oh, God damn it. Oh, Chris. Yes. Uh, uh, Betsy Bryant. No, I don't think so.
01:21:13
Speaker
I can see her. I cannot remember. I keep wanting to say Red Sonja, but that's not what it is. No. What is it? She played Electra. Thank you. Was played by Elodie Young on. Wait. the You said Jennifer Garner. I said, no, I said Jennifer Connolly. Oh, wait. Jennifer Garner. Yeah, Jennifer Garner played Electra. Jennifer Connolly played the Incredible Hulk's girlfriend in Hulk.
01:21:47
Speaker
Oh, well, we'll just, we'll just ignore that. Uh, I'm sorry. My apologies. My apologies to both of those ladies. I liked that I got, I was thinking of the right person, despite the fact that it wasn't said.
01:22:05
Speaker
All right. Um, but another one should be easy. Eric Bonner and Edward Norton. Greg. Yes. We got the incredible home.
01:22:15
Speaker
Yes, indeed. And that's played by Mark Ruffalo. Yes. I didn't think I was going to get on the board in this game. I'm not going to lie. Good job. You're doing great. All right. um This character has been played by Dolph Lundgren, Thomas Jane and Ray Stevenson. Chris. Oh, and was that was that. You said that at the same time.
01:22:42
Speaker
All right. ah Well, great spot. At the same time. Okay. Well, ah chris yeah the punisher. Yes. Correct. As to who it is now. I have no idea. Do you know?
Discussion on Actors and Film References
01:22:56
Speaker
Yeah, me neither. John Bernthal. Okay. Okay. Yeah. <unk>ve I've heard his name, but I've never internalized it. Yeah. He's got a good face. He's got a real. Yeah. It's got a real good face that you don't, the kind you don't see.
01:23:13
Speaker
He's got a mug. Yeah, exactly. All right. Taylor Kitch.
01:23:22
Speaker
Oh. Hmm. I feel like I should know this one. Chris. OK. Name or the Submariner. No.
01:23:41
Speaker
No idea. No idea. a Gambit. Ah, now one of the one of the expert movies and ah although his his starring role that with got lost in Development Hell, Channing Tatum did get to play Gambit in Deadpool and Wolverine. So OK, good for him. that gum Going for him. OK, last one. This is really.
01:24:09
Speaker
This is a hard one, but I just think it's great. So, okay. Jessica Walter. Hmm. Uh, Chris. Yeah. ah The invisible woman. Nope.
01:24:28
Speaker
No idea. Absolutely. She played Morgan Le Fay in a 70s TV movie of Dr. Strange. Oh, wow. I had that on VHS. Yeah. Okay. Morgan Le Fay did turn up in the TV show, The Runaways, where she was played by Elizabeth Hurley. Oh, so I encourage you to look up Jessica Walter in that movie because she's looking good.
01:24:58
Speaker
and Don't mind if I do. All right, Chris, you won by one.
Revisiting the 'Best Bad Movie of the Year' Concept
01:25:04
Speaker
Hey, Chris, Chris, Chris, best bad movie of the year. Game winner, Chris, boy. And now we're moving on to what I got to say has to be the most prestigious, oh, bad awards of the year, our best bad movie of the year, bad awards.
01:25:51
Speaker
Congratulations to all the nominees! That's right, congratulations to all our nominees!
01:26:03
Speaker
Who wants to give their Batty Award first? I'll go first. Okay. And I will give my Batty Award to the best costume piece. And also like just the most 2003 costume piece and that is Madame Webb's.
01:26:19
Speaker
red leather, um, jacket. It's just like, Oh yeah. a pi its Probably. Well, that's a little short to be a P coat, but, uh, she wears it for most of the movie. It's probably actually leather, but in my head it's pleather because that makes it more 2003. But, uh, a lot of, you know, the movie does not play a, a lot of attention to The time period, but that that coat is definitely exactly right. And it looks great on her. Yeah, it does. Yeah. Well, I'll follow
Humorous Movie Anachronisms
01:26:59
Speaker
that up. Speaking of time period awards.
01:27:02
Speaker
ah I'm giving the year too soon award. Uh, I have, uh, three nominees for my year too soon award. Obviously there's the PSP that the guy is playing on the side. The SPs had come out in Japan, but had not been released in America until 2004. The guy that says New York city is a whole new level of crazy these days after nine 11. Yeah.
01:27:28
Speaker
There's also the Britney Spears single, Toxic, which was on her album that was out of the time, but was not a single until 2004. So very odd that'd be being played on the radio. Very nice. Very nice way to go, Madam Web.
01:27:41
Speaker
And lastly, the winner of the year two soon award is the Sudoku book that Anya was reading. Sudoku, of course, did not start appearing in American newspapers until 2004. And clearly you wouldn't have had those little budget Sudoku books that you could buy at the grocery store until at least a couple months after it caught on. Congratulations, little Sudoku book.
01:28:07
Speaker
Was it supposed to take place in 2004 and something happened? It was supposed to take place in the 90s and then they pushed it up to 2004 for some reason.
01:28:18
Speaker
okay so strange Well, great. Do you got a bad word? I have almost too many for this movie. So like I just have to list some things that were some of my favorites. The line ah you have to go to Peru is due to the context, but it's so beautiful because it's just like dumped out there and it's just like, I do i have to go to Peru and it's just like, what? I loved seeing the PSP. That was going to be that was possibly just like favorite reference. But now that I know it's actually inaccurate, it's like, OK, well, never mind. um I love I love that opera sequence.
01:28:53
Speaker
just going for a man, man picks up program and floor, won't give it to woman, woman in his apartment, kissing him next to spider tank to man in bed, talking about dream where he's murdered for some reason. She's like, wow, your buzzkill. That whole thing is beautiful, but my award, and this is one that you probably didn't pick up. And I just learned it today because I watched the bonus features. It's lamest Easter egg.
01:29:17
Speaker
And that is when Maddie is attached. She's like in the very beginning, she's on a skateboard and she's like holding the back bumper of a car. That's an Easter egg for the Daily Globe, the number one competitor of the Daily Bugle. So obviously everybody caught that little Easter egg. And I also feel like that really encapsulates my feeling of Madam Web. It's like, why would you? Why that?
01:29:45
Speaker
Why put in something that's not anything?
Encouragement to Watch 'Madam Web'
01:29:48
Speaker
It's truly a baffling series of decisions that led to this little bizarre treasure of a film. Yeah. It's it's unparalleled. Listeners, you've got to check out Madam Web. And be on the lookout for even more Easter eggs. There's a lot of numbers referencing comics. Nobody knows. Yes. Oh, I'm sure.
01:30:12
Speaker
This was a movie made to please no one for no clear reason. And it sure succeeds. Yeah. It's been a pleasure having you with us this week listeners. We hope that you enjoyed the first annual best bad movie of the year awards. Hooray! Hooray! I'm excited for the after party.
01:30:38
Speaker
Yes, and we recorded this way in advance when we had a whole other schedule, so I don't know what's coming next week, but you should definitely stick around and check it out. And what else has been going? Well, we've presumably still got our Instagram and YouTube and stuff like that going. You can find us all on that stuff, but hey, we're celebrating, so I'm not gonna hit you too hard. I'm just gonna bug you to tell a friend
Show Conclusion and Social Media Promotion
01:31:06
Speaker
about the show. Stickers, if you want stickers.
01:31:09
Speaker
oh oh yeah We might still have some stickers left if we haven't run out of stickers shoot us an email at You're at favorite bad movie pod at gmail dot.com and I'll send you a sticker in the mail It'll help you break the ice and talk about the podcast, huh? Mm-hmm Well, I'm just going to take us out of the show with a little tune that I composed in honor of Madam Web. So thank you so much for tuning in and hopefully we'll see you at the 2025 Best Bad Movie of the Year Awards. Until then, be good. Goodbye. Goodbye.