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Episode 34: Hackers featuring Noah Fulmor
45 Plays5 months ago
Chris, Greg, and Anna are joined by Noah Fulmor to talk about the hacking hagiography Hackers. You're going to want to download this to your jazz drives, because we're dropping a logic bomb straight into the kernel of the coolest of the 90's cyberthrillers. You could say that it hasn't aged well, but that implies that people liked it when it came out. Tune in, and HACK THE PLANET!
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Premise
00:00:40
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to your favorite bad movie podcast. The only podcast that's brave enough to ask the question, this movie's so bad, why do you like it so much?
00:00:53
Speaker
We're your hosts. My name is Chris Anderson. And with me, as always, I have the Nikon to my Phantom Freak, Mr. Greg Bossi.
Guest Introduction and Movie Anticipation
00:01:04
Speaker
Hello. And of course, I have the razor to my blade, my lovely wife, Anna Anderson. Oh, that's so sweet. It's true. We're a dynamic duo, my love. And of course, we have, you might know him best,
00:01:22
Speaker
as a founding member of the Danger Gang. You might also know him best as a ninja consultant, but I know him as my own personal plague. It's Mr. Noah Fulmore. Oh, can I be zero cool? I feel like that's way more appropriate. You're way too cool to be zero cool. Well, thanks. You're at least one cool. All right.
00:01:47
Speaker
That's the I would have gone by too cool because I'm also TOO cool for school. the and Well, I don't want them to. I guess he was 12 when
Discussion on 'Hackers' Plot
00:01:57
Speaker
he named himself. Anyway, anyway, anyway, you chose our movie this week and you chose 1995's Hackers. I did. Now, any listeners at home who have not seen Hackers, I've just got a little brief summary to help you keep the plot of the film in mind.
00:02:23
Speaker
A small cadre of teen hackers get framed for hacking and must use all their hacking skills to catch the hacker that hacked them. Fair enough? Yeah. yep All right. I mean, plus plus a thousand other plots and subplots. I know, but if I say a thousand things, it stopped being a short summary. Oh, you're right.
00:02:53
Speaker
You're right. Now, Noah, you chose hackers. what What drove you to hackers? What's your background with
Noah's Personal Story with 'Hackers'
00:02:58
Speaker
hackers? What drove me to hackers? um'll tell it I'll tell you who drove me to hackers. Judd Belstock. I hope you're listening, Judd. So picture this. I'm 15 years of age.
00:03:12
Speaker
and ah how That couldn't be right, though. I'm older than that, aren't I? Oh, no. I'm not 15. I'm like 17 or 18. Oh, this is terrible. I'm even less than zero cool. I'm negative cool. Negative cool.
00:03:29
Speaker
So ah I was a cyberpunk fan starting from about the age of 12 or so. Big neuromancer guys. well a Big neuromancer guy. and And prior to that, I was myself. um I wouldn't say a hacker, but I was a BBSer, right? OK. So you dial up with your modem, your 1200 baud, 2400 baud. Hang on.
00:03:58
Speaker
beautiful beautiful like music to my ears and it was like it was it was so cool because you'd you'd like The little screen would draw itself in little green ASCII symbols and it was like just slightly, like it didn't quite line up. And then you could make your own little handle, right? And yeah you could log into these systems. I had a couple. So i was just give me yournas synapse. Nice. And I like it. i like it
00:04:31
Speaker
ah and then you could hang out on these BBSs and play some games and, you know, write on forums. And it was like the internet, except for like five people. 40 maybe at tops.
00:04:49
Speaker
But it was cool because the CIS op could bust in on you, the guy who ran the board. And so you'd be minding your own business. And then the CIS op would be like, hey, hey, what you doing? And you'd be like, oh, it's like God. It's like the God of the system who's here, like, deigning to speak with me as I play Trade Wars, 2002. Or, God, Rogue, the other ones. No, no, Rogue, because Rogue was not like a multiplayer game.
00:05:23
Speaker
um ro whos probably work at a multiplayer row Yeah, sure. and And I think that it has done. And it's possible that BBS has used that, but that was not one of the ones that I was familiar with. Galactic Warzone, Operation Overkill, ah all of this great stuff. And I very deeply believed in the ethos that is expressed in this movie.
00:05:50
Speaker
So you have to understand that for me, hackers, like you ask yourself, who was
90s Cyber Thrillers and Tech Portrayal
00:05:57
Speaker
this movie aimed at? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Neat.
00:06:01
Speaker
Fair enough. nice Turns out maybe not so many other people because it really tanked, right? Yes, but it it was not a success. I saw this movie and I was like, that is what I want my future to be. So I watched this movie and it was like a constant wave of like imagery and fashion and soundtrack and coolness. And i I went on a weeknight, which was ah rare because i you know I was a nerd. So I had to study and I was like ditched homework, I think, for that. And I saw this movie and I came out and I was like, I've got to see that again. So the next day, like I was like, how can I possibly
00:06:57
Speaker
I don't remember how I got there the first time, but I know that I needed a ride the second time. and I don't drive. I didn't drive. And so i the the one guy I knew who had a car who like owed me a favor, and I was like, hey Judd, there's this cool movie called Hackers. Let's go. And he's like, you've never talked to me before.
00:07:22
Speaker
like I barely know you. And I'm like, yeah, man, but it's really cool. I think you'd really like it. I think I had to pay for his ticket. Sure. And but he took me. And so I saw it the next day and I watched it again and it was like, whoa, this is so cool. Oh, my God. And he was like that. OK. All right. All right. I'm glad. Well, never mind. And he ah basically never talked to me again.
00:07:52
Speaker
So
Angelina Jolie's Role and Icon Status
00:07:53
Speaker
that's that's my background with this movie. My background with this movie is that I believed wholeheartedly in the undercurrent that is expressed in the movie that on the internet, and now this is laughable. it's not It goes beyond laughability. It's it's it's total, obviously, utter utter falsehood. But when you're anonymous,
00:08:22
Speaker
People judge you only by your ideas. They don't know who you are, only know what you say. And so I thought that this was going to be, as the internet became a larger and larger thing, I thought that this was going to be a new enlightenment for humanity. Nope. Nope.
00:08:48
Speaker
I remember that feeling though. oh yeah like i wasn't on you know I wasn't as online as you were at that point. I don't like i didn't get an email address until 1998 when I went to college. but because my dad um was he It started in 1979, the year I was born. He became a technical writer at a computer company.
00:09:17
Speaker
And so, so my family had computers growing up when we might not have at our income level, if he had had a ah different office job, you know, but we had like a Commodore 64 and then, and then different things. And then like, when the internet, like, like, I mean, my dad was certainly on BBSs. He had like, my dad had friends on the internet in you know, with the early 90s. And I don't, the funny thing is I know that I have seen like a few weeks ago we did Spice World, which I've seen many, many times. The only movie that that I've seen more times that we've done is is Hackers, ah which I watched so many times ah that we wore out ah our VHS, my sister and I. um i But i the thing is I don't remember the first time
00:10:12
Speaker
I don't think I saw it in the theater, so I don't know whether. And honestly, I probably came to it because like Johnny Lee Miller was cute and Angelina Jolie was very pretty and I liked her hair. I had that, like I had that haircut. That little tight bowl cut, that little like Sally Bowls. Yeah.
00:10:38
Speaker
Well, what about you, Greg? What's your background with hackers? Uh, so I only know hackers because Matt Finnegan, who was on the show a few weeks ago, he's a big fan of it. And we would always get together on Saturdays and play games. And he was kind of like talking about it. He's like, kind of want to watch hackers again. He's like, I've never seen, he's like, we're watching hackers today. Yeah. So just one of these Saturdays to put it on. We only see it at one time. Well, first off, I want to say I feel like people have been talking about like their background with computers. So like I had a friend in middle school who introduced me to like basic programming and he knew a lot of things about actual hacking. And so like he was explaining like phone freaking to me and various other sorts of things. Uh, so ah whenever that was an education, so whenever I would see like computers represented in movies, it was always just like, this is so much garbage.
00:11:29
Speaker
And so hackers just completely flew over me at the time, had no interest, had no idea what it was, whatever. ah But Matt showed it to me, and I absolutely adored the thing. ah But I was excited to watch it again, because I could only remember two things about it.
Impact of Cyber Thrillers on Gen X Culture
00:11:46
Speaker
One was the skateboard stuff, all the skateboard stuff. And then the line that Matthew Lillard says, ah where he says, check out that pooper,
00:11:59
Speaker
Andex is a privilege, not a right. I had no memory to that whatsoever. That was one of those, like I had to stop, I was like, I'm sorry. Like both of those things, I think when I originally watched it, I was like, hold on, can we pause it? Can we put a pin in that for a moment? That's kind of like a lead balloon in that scene. But the funny thing is, is I remembered, check out that pooper and Spandex is a privilege, not a right. It's two separate memories.
00:12:25
Speaker
yeah Interesting. And then when I saw this, I was like, oh, it's at the same time. It said at the same time. Interesting. Yeah. Well, I remember I didn't see hackers when it came out. I'm sure I watched it at the video store and thought it was a decent day's afternoons entertainment, but I sort of lumped it in with a lot of the other cyber thrillers of the era. She was obviously the most like stylish one compared to the the net, which is his obvious point of comparison.
00:12:54
Speaker
um And my background with computers, it was mostly ah in my older brother's shadow, my older brother, previous guest of the show, Johan Anderson, big computer guy when we were kids, big sci-fi guy, big into cyberpunk. And so I had that sort of younger brother osmosis knowledge of a lot of it and appreciation of the aesthetic, even if it was never sort of my own particular thing. sure So with all of our personal backgrounds,
00:13:25
Speaker
is broken for. Do you guys want to hear my context research? Sure. Please.
00:14:10
Speaker
Hackers came out in 1995. Director Ian Softly, writer Raphael Moreau. I found many taglines. Here are three of them. Okay. One, hack the planet. Yep. Two, boot up or shut up. Okay. Oof. Not a little bit rough for that one. And three, their only crime was curiosity. Yeah, geez. Yeah. ah Now, hackers began as the brainchild of screenwriter Raphael Moreau. Moreau attended and NYU's Tisch School of the Arts. Go, Violet!
00:15:02
Speaker
Go to Hell, Lions. After graduating- Hey, we had a winning season this year! Did you know? Sorry. I don't care at all, but it's a fact. Well, congrats on every winning season in the Ivy League. After graduating, he worked in New York Theatre before being hired to work as director of development at Hallmark Entertainment. Huh.
00:15:28
Speaker
At this point in his career, he decided ah he wanted to try his hand at writing and working on something that was sort of his own idea as opposed to adapting other people's ideas and bringing those things to fruition. ah So we started working on his first screenplay, which was Hackers. Okay. Moreau started by doing research and looking at a zine called 2600 The Hacker Quarterly. Whoop, whoop. Still in publication. Oh, good for them. Yeah.
00:15:56
Speaker
Uh, this, uh, led him to a monthly meeting of hackers that happened at the time at the food court of the atrium at the city court building on 53rd and Lex in New York city. It was there that he befriended famous hackers like fiber optic cap and crunch and wow the plague who lent his name to Fisher Stevens. Oh, right on. There is a real plague. And that is of course, fiber optic pH, pH one.
00:16:25
Speaker
b three B3R. optic with a k because Because he was an optic with a K because he was Lee. And Cap'n Crunch, his name inspired Matthew Lillard's character, Serial Killer. ye He was the one that did phone freaking, I think, because he got a whistle out of a Cap'n Crunch box. Yes. Now,
Casting and Production of 'Hackers'
00:16:47
Speaker
I think theyre these hackers early influence really ultimately led to hackers becoming such a winning film and that just like how Cocktail is a movie about bartending for bartenders or Michael Clayton is a lawyer ring movie for lawyers ah or Backdraft is a firefighter movie for firefighters. Hackers is a hacking movie for hackers.
00:17:14
Speaker
Not in that it's particularly accurate or insightful, but it makes hacking look like the coolest thing in the world. It's a hacking hay geography.
00:17:24
Speaker
So the script was optioned, but languished for a few years before that option lapsed. And the option was picked up by producer Jeff Kleeman, who was a friend of Marcus's or Moreau's rather.
00:17:36
Speaker
Cleeman had recently seen and been impressed by director Ian Softley's debut film, Backbeat. The biopic about the Beatles was Stephen Dorth as the fifth Beatle. So we reached out to him and Softley joined up with the project at that point.
00:17:55
Speaker
I think the fact that the director is an Englishman explains one big mystery of the film, which is how Johnny Lee Miller's accent got to be what it is. His American accent in this is fucking trash. It is really, really bad. In fact, his whole character this whole character He's he doing his best. Yes, he is. But handle shouldn't be zero cool, it should be cipher. Because this guy, there's nothing going on there. Yeah, he has some very blank eyes and he is he is struggling with this accent.
00:18:37
Speaker
now Softly saw a lot of similarities between the Beatles of Backbeat and the Hackers of Hackers, okay in that he saw them as the vanguard of a youth cultural movement. oh The makers of the film saw Hackers as ah who would ultimately end up defining Gen X culturally, politically, and aesthetically, the same way that hippies ended up sort of defining baby boomers, even though everybody wasn't a hippie.
00:19:05
Speaker
Uh, so they sort of went all in on this, uh, and of all the cyber thrillers, the nineties hackers is the hackeriest. And also don't think that's entirely wrong. Fair enough. That, that I, yeah I do think now, like not, not not not necessarily the hacker as an aesthetic subculture, but the hacker slash.
00:19:36
Speaker
person who is good at computers being something that is very Gen X. Yeah. yeah Unfortunately, the the Gen X ah tech stereotype ended up being the tech bro instead of the hacker. Yeah. I think those guys are mostly millennials. Was that Gen X? I was going to say it seems that that's later. And it seems like I certainly felt like they robbed me of, and I was never even really a ah tech person, right? But I felt that they robbed me of my identity in a way because they made it. So if being a nerd was cool, I don't know quite where I'm going with this, but it's like they yuppified nerds. yeah i see They took something that was heartfelt and turned it into commodity.
00:20:33
Speaker
And then we're like really self-righteous about it. And I was, you know, disgusted. And I guess actually now it's kind of like, I now it's like, I don't even, like, there's nothing more you can do to me. Like yeah a lot of people still, still complain about that. Now it's, it's, it's just like, there's, there's nothing more that you can take from me. Like.
00:20:57
Speaker
And of course, now hackers are no longer you know anarchists that are you know destroying systems. They're skimming credit card numbers and blackmailing hospitals.
00:21:08
Speaker
well and and more ah more frequently they're they're state actors. They're like the opposite of what these guys are. They're North Koreans, they're Russians, you know they're Nigerians who are working through the state, for the state. And Americans too, put us on the list. ah Sure, but I don't think, I don't know. i mean They're probably not doing it to us, but I'm sure they're doing it.
00:21:39
Speaker
Or at least not as much or different. I'm sure they're doing it to just about everybody. Anyway, casting was obviously going to be very important for this. And you had to make these characters both cool and hot. Hmm. So Johnny Lee Miller was cast early on making his big screen debut as Crash Override, aka Zero Cool, aka Dade. Yeah.
00:22:04
Speaker
Now, ah after looking around for a while, they settled on relative unknown Angelina Jolie, whose only previous leading role was in Cyborg 2, The Glass Shadow. That sounds great. Now, their chemistry was so off the charts that the two of them married shortly after the film wrapped. More on that later. How old were they in this? Do you know? Does anybody know? Early 20s. Yeah. Like I said, one of them was 20.
00:22:33
Speaker
Yeah, she was 20 and he was 23. This is relevant because i this will become relevant later. Stick around listeners. Now, the rest of the cast soon fell into place. They spent three weeks of pre-production learning to rollerblade and convincingly type. Those are two important skills.
00:22:58
Speaker
yeah You gotta sell both those things. You gotta make it both look natural on camera for this movie. I hope you don't screw like you type. One of the worst lines of all time in any movie ever. And you don't want the audience to be saying that as they watch Johnny Miller hunt and peck, you know? Johnny Lee Miller also hung out with the 2600 crew to kind of get their vibe.
00:23:23
Speaker
ah Production went smoothly, shooting in New York City, Los Angeles, and London. ah For the sequences in Cyberspace, ironically, Ian Softly didn't want to use any CGI, so they were all done with practical effects and animation.
00:23:38
Speaker
Yeah, um cg I would age poorly. So it was all rotoscoping miniatures. except head Except for the game in the yeah whatever the Siberia or whatever it was called. All right. All right. Well, I wonder, I mean, that might be why I think he's probably right that yeah yeah that CGI would have aged worse. this know The those opening credits still look amazing.
00:24:03
Speaker
Yeah, and all those yeah shots where they're going through the computer look really cool. I find it really... um from sort of a film student perspective where you have the shot of New York and you see all the people in it. And then there's the overlay of the digital world. And it's like, it's the same thing, man. It's like just ones and zeros. Very populate late 90s. Yeah. It's populated in the same way that Manhattan is populated. Yeah. Now,
00:24:41
Speaker
Unfortunately, hackers did not resonate with audiences of the time. It only made $7.5 million dollars on a $20 million dollars budget. The critics did not care for it either, but Roger Ebert was a notable exception writing, the movie is smart and entertaining, as long as you don't take the computer stuff very seriously. I didn't. I took it ah approximately as seriously as the archaeology in Indiana Jones.
00:25:07
Speaker
And he's right, it's set dressing. If you look at it as set dressing, it's
Detailed Plot Overview of 'Hackers'
00:25:11
Speaker
fine. You call this archeology? You call this hacking? You call this hacking? Anyway. Anyway. ah Hackers, however, did spawn the release of four separate distinct music from and inspired by soundtrack albums. God bless. Yeah. Who and who is the mastermind behind it? Simon Biswell?
00:25:38
Speaker
Does that sound right? Simon Biswell? That's who got the credit for music. I wrote it down. Simon. Simon Biswell. Simon Boswell, I believe. Boswell? Simon Boswell, who I assume is the same Simon Boswell from America's Got Talent or whatever. Is that not the same guy?
00:25:56
Speaker
Because I sure as hell thought it was. Oh, no, that's Simon Cowell, you're thinking. Oh, damn it. All right. Yeah, a different guy. Yeah. I'm just going to double check that i've I was wrong about Simon Biswell. That's quite all right. That shows you what I yeah pay attention to. That's fine. All right. Simon Cowell. No, Simon Biswell. He was a member of the musical group Sex Gang Children. Oh. Oh.
00:26:25
Speaker
Good for him. A lot of credibility there. Other thrillers of 1995. Also, you got the net this year, the net for your profit with old Sandy B and Dennis Miller. Yeah, yeah. You know, he's a big fan of the net, Mel Brooks. How about that? More of that later. You also have David Fincher's Seven.
00:26:50
Speaker
Okay. You've got the usual suspects. All right. Michael Mann's heat. boom ah Martin Scorsese's casino. Outbreak. Yeah. oh And my favorite ah cyber thriller of the year. Virtuosity. Yeah. Yeah. I think I've seen that. That was pretty great.
00:27:15
Speaker
it's ah It's a fun little cartoon of a movie. Russell Crowe really chews the scenery up in it. Well. And that that one, sorry, that that I was just going to say that one went the other way. And that was another movie that I saw in the theater hoping to get sort of like, I don't know if I saw it before or after, but hoping to get the same sort of experience. And instead, it's just it's like an action movie, but it's like it's got set dressing for yeah cyberspace.
00:27:44
Speaker
Yeah. And so they went the CGI direction and it's like, oh, this is like, it's funny because now I bet looking back, hackers is way more cringe worthy. But at the time I felt like Virtuosity, which was just trying to be sort of an action movie. Right. Yeah. I was like, oh, man, like they expect me to buy that this is cyberspace. Like, oh, I'm so sorry.
00:28:13
Speaker
you know Well, and you got to think about cyber thrillers of this era using the internet almost the same way that like a 50s movie would use nuclear energy. It would just be able to do sort of whatever you needed it to do. And the audience had a vague awareness of it. and He was like a blanket you put over plot to just be like, and it worked because of this. You're like, oh yeah, that makes sense. I buy it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:39
Speaker
Well, you guys want to get into the plot of hackers? Oh, heck yeah. Yes.
Opening Scene Analysis
00:29:27
Speaker
We start in Seattle in the year 1988 A SWAT team raids a suburban home. We cut to the courtroom where we see the defendant on trial for unleashing the craziest computer virus of all time, and he's a 12-year-old boy. He's sentenced to pay a fine of $45,000 and banned from using computers or touch-tone phones until he's 18 years old.
00:29:55
Speaker
This movie really buys into touchstone phones and phone freaking, even though it has nothing to do with the plot at any given point. A little bit. It's really cool though. It's really cool. And it is how they are later able to give them the slip a couple of times, right? You remember in the climax, I don't want to spoil anything for everyone. But phone freaking, because of the- Oh no, you're right. That's how they do that. Yeah. Because of the climax. The telecom was the internet at the time, right? Yeah. So that sound that you played at the beginning, those are tones, right? It's the same thing. That's the one, just like Captain Crunch.
00:30:44
Speaker
Now, we cut to him now being 18, and he's flying into New York City. He's bleach blonde and he's played by a young Johnny Lee Miller, trying his best to sound like an American. The city skyline dissolves into a circuit board and we get our titles in a classic 90s Helvetica. Dade, aka Johnny Lee Miller, aka Zero Cool, aka Crash Override, is in his room having just turned 18 and is hacking.
00:31:15
Speaker
He calls his local TV station and cons his way into getting a dial-up number for their modem, then uses it to hack in and change a right-wing talking head to an episode of The Outer Limits. Then he gets a message from another hacker using the handle Acid Burn. They have a hacking battle and they make the robots grab tapes out of each other's robot arms. yeah Which is incredible. It is.
00:31:39
Speaker
Yeah, I also would like I would like to point out that the conservative talk show that he interrupts is called America. first I noticed that too. And yeah, the more things change, the more they stay the same. It's really remarkable. And I just want to say that it just will get lots of examples of hacking as cinema.
00:32:04
Speaker
And it really, on this rewatch, it really makes me appreciate the extent to which probably the director, but also like the cinematographer, really thought about how to depict something that is boring as shit.
00:32:22
Speaker
Yeah. yeah and i think them I think hackers does such a good job of that. Yeah. Yeah. one of One of the best examples of that, better than like password swordfish or any of that, which sort of goes in the same direction. But yeah I feel like this may be a high watermark, in fact, for for that kind of, I don't know, what what do what do you sort of call it? is It's a visual metaphor, you know?
00:32:46
Speaker
Yeah, the the stylization and hyper realization of the concept of sitting at your computer and typing in different things. Now, the next day, he's off to high school via the school bus. No, no, no. He goes via his rollerblades. Mm hmm. To the mean streets of New York City. Yeah.
00:33:10
Speaker
And rollerblading more than anything other than the hacking really sets us in the mid 90s. Oh, yes. Even, you know, if they had been on skateboarding, it would have been much more timeless. But this was not about being timeless. This is about being of the moment. Right. Well, and I just want to mention that every time I see rollerblades now, I think Shadow the Hedgehog. Fair enough. There's just it this one one to one.
00:33:41
Speaker
Now Angelina Jolie as Kate gets assigned to show him around school and he instantly has his jaw on the floor and his head is turning into a steam whistle. He's a Tex Avery wolf. He's going nuts. And the reason is obvious. Angelina Jolie is very hot in this movie. It is no wonder why she became a sexual icon of the nineties. I would say, is that fair?
00:34:08
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, 90s. Yeah, but I will say that that, you know, I did expect that she was going to go places and it's one of the one of the few times in my life when I've been right. Like, congratulations. I thank you. I was I was totally unsurprised that because she then did girl interrupted and that was what set her up, you know,
00:34:36
Speaker
And I was like, wow, you know, I I could see it. I could see it because Johnny Lee Miller did nothing for me. Of course, maybe there's no reason why he would. But he looked pretty and he stood around. He was funny but but there was nothing there. Right. There was nothing there. Whereas I thought that that Angelina Jolie, you could do all kinds of things with this person. And she has charisma. It was she has charisma. She has it. Yeah.
Character Dynamics and Tech Jargon
00:34:59
Speaker
Right. She is. it Yeah. Yeah. She's a straight up man eater upper in this movie.
00:35:05
Speaker
Now, they have some light flirty banter before she tricks him into locking himself on the roof. He does finally get to go to computer science class, where he's able to hack into the school's system so he can get into Kate's classes. One of his classmates see him hacking and realizes that the two of them should become hack bros. That classmate is the Phantom Freak. Whoo! Yes. It's the Freak!
00:35:34
Speaker
Yeah, they everybody calls him freak for short. He is the phone freaker of the crew. Anytime there's a payphone, you're like, oh, time for the phantom freak to show up. Like at one point, they just go to a club and he there's a payphone there just for him to trick the payphone. He's like, now I'm going to hang out in this club and call long distance. i mean it yeah It is a hacker club, right? It's a freaker club. so yeah But and all he was doing was making a long-distance call to to apparently no one. I know, but Razor and Blade, this is this is how you stick it to the man, right? It's true, you do waste the phone company's time. And that's always worthwhile. Now, ah the Phantom Freak invites Dade to a little hacking get-together slash club called Cybertalia.
00:36:25
Speaker
Cybertalia has everything. It has a ramp for rollerblading on. It has an on-rails first-person shooter video game with a very large screen. It has Matthew Lillard as the serial killer, hawking mixtapes, composed solely of artists that asphyxiated on their own vomit. What do you guys think of Matthew Lillard in this movie? He's so interesting. He's making a lot of strong choices. He's a lot.
00:36:55
Speaker
He's admitting to them. This is Matthew Lillard at his most. Matthew Lillard. He's magnetic. Sure. Sure. That's a way to describe him. He attracts and repels. Yes. Yeah. As you said about ah in your episode about the Apple, which I was not in. But an interesting thing about hackers, gay people love hackers.
00:37:21
Speaker
Oh yeah i'm not a surprise and and Matthew Lillard's character is really one of the reasons why like all of the hackers but like there's a lot of gender going on with all of them. All of these people have very strange indeterminate but colorful and very noisy genders. I mean, except Johnny Lee Heller. Well, even then, even then, right? But when he's pretending to be from from IT t and comes out from under, like between the woman's legs under her desk, and he's got his tools out in front of his crotch, and he's being led around by the tools, like that's...
00:38:09
Speaker
Talk about a strong choice. That's a strong choice. Very strong choice. And the way it's shot, it's kind of like he's coming up, like, from the tunnels under the city. He's coming up from the bowels of hell. Yeah. Yeah, you don't think that he could have been under that desk because he's so tall. Tall, yeah. Yeah, it is like a magic trick. He cannot be contained.
00:38:33
Speaker
His performance to me reminds me, you could see if he broke bad, Matthew Lillard could have been a Polly Shore, but he so he
Matthew Lillard's Performance
00:38:43
Speaker
steered out of the skid, I think. But this is his Polly Shore-iest performance. Sure, I'll give you that.
00:38:50
Speaker
He's also our first member of our three-time club. oh The first actor that we know that has appeared in three of our films. The first one being Ghoulies 3, Ghoulies Go to College. The second being In the Name of the King and Dungeon Siege Tale. The third, Attackers.
00:39:07
Speaker
Yeah. Congratulations to you, Matthew Lillard. We love you. Yeah, he's great. Well, he is he is great. And and just a 30-second divergence here. He has the best life.
00:39:20
Speaker
like He became, you know, a B-list actor and made enough money that he could start his own bespoke D and&D companies, plural. Oh, nice. i Yeah. He's a huge D and&D player. And that's now what he does with his life. He, like, hawks, haute couture D&D stuff and plays D and&D.
00:39:46
Speaker
And that's all he wants to do. And if I knew that that was a possible life, I would have changed everything. You would have tried harder at that audition for Scream. I sure would. It hurt my face that you saw the mask. It was true. Painful. You ever try it anyway? Yeah. And you act all with the eyes. It was better. It was better on him anyway.
00:40:13
Speaker
Now, ah Freak introduces Dade to his buddy Joey, a younger hacker yet to earn his handle, no but Dade doesn't have too much time for that. He needs to go seduce Angelina Jolie by proving that he's better than her in video games. yeah This backfires though, ah because when he beats her, I know this strategy always made, this is how you know that these characters are in high school, because this is when you would think it would work.
00:40:39
Speaker
hu It does backfire because when he beats her high score, she leaves to go make out with her boyfriend Curtis on the back of his motorcycle. yeah Understandable. But does it backfire though? A seat has been placed. I think in fact, it it is perhaps her own insecurity that sends her into the mouth of her boyfriend. It's true. If if he lost, then she never would have respected him. Yeah.
00:41:07
Speaker
Now, the next day at school, Dade proved he's got even more chops by hacking the school's sprinkler system. After school, Dade, Freak, Serial and Joey go hang out at Cybertalia. Serial gives a spacey monologue about how 1984 was 11 years ago, man. And then ah Joey tells them how he hacked an ATM across state lines.
00:41:33
Speaker
They tell him that that was very dumb, because it'll get the FBI after him. And what he should do to earn his stripes and his hacker handle is go hack a Gibson, the latest supercomputer. Yeah.
00:41:44
Speaker
named after William Gibson fans. Yes. Oh, speaking of named after, uh, Lillard's character, Emmanuel Goldstein yeah is, it is, it was both a, the pen name of a hacker named, I pulled him up here, Eric Corley. Um, but he took it from.
00:42:07
Speaker
1984, it's ah Big Brother's opposite number. It's the top enemy of Oceana. So it is it is no coincidence that he is quoting 1984 in peace. Now, that night, Joey does go hack a Gibson, but it's not just any old Gibson. He hacks a Gibson, administrated by Fisher Stevens's evil corporate hacker, The Plague.
00:42:37
Speaker
Do we know what it is that they do? Are they just an energy company? well Oil. Oil. Yeah. Okay. Now, ah his assistant, Hal, played by Penn Gillette in a thankless role. The way I remember it, Penn Gillette is like half of that film. He's in two scenes. It might be three. It might be three. Maybe. Yeah, but every time he's just like, we got a problem, boss. Yeah.
00:43:06
Speaker
yeah It looks like they're getting to the Colonel. Those are all his lines. but So Pendullet tells him about the breach and then the plague skateboards into the server room and declares, never fear, I is here. Great entrance. He looked so cool gliding across the server room floor on his skateboard. What are your thoughts on Fisher Stevens in this film?
00:43:36
Speaker
I think it's great that this movie ah anticipated like grown men riding around on skateboards. Right. so And this is on this rewatch, what really hit home for me, there are no fathers in this movie. That's true. You get to see Dade's dad make a grimace at the trial and the closest thing to a father figure is it's either Fisher Stevens or Richard Gill.
Parental Themes in 'Hackers'
00:44:08
Speaker
And Richard Gill is too much of, you know, an uptight bureaucrat to really have any kind of fatherly vibes. And it's it's the plague that's trying to take Dade under his wing and and be that father figure too. Nobody has a father in this room.
00:44:28
Speaker
And you see the mothers having to deal with the fallout from all of their shenanigans, right? Yeah, so much so that the freak basically, I guess you get to see him in in jail or something when he makes a call, but he's he's not even in the end of the movie. It's like his mother blasts him into nothing.
00:44:50
Speaker
because she's beating him and screaming at him, you know, in in Spanish. And it's like, wow, this is kind of like, this is what this is. This is a world without dads to kind of say like, hey, stop it. Like stop being an idiot.
00:45:09
Speaker
like stop hacking don't like don't hack don't be yeah don't hack don't hack don't really hack anymore stop hacking straighten straighten up and and fly right and be part of you know the the respectable patriarchal society that we have and without that you've got these sort of And I did Murphy because he he almost goes the the plague route, right? He like, yeah, I got to bail my mom out. ah Yeah. So he doesn't have sort of another. oh What do you call that role model? Yeah. So he almost goes that way. He almost true becomes this sort of. But no, because the power of friendship, thankfully, and that's what they have is a community.
00:46:03
Speaker
The power of community is sufficient to ah save the day. Now, before we that happens, Joey does break into the Gibson. And he's able to download part of a garbage file as proof of his latest leet hacking adventure. But but when the plague, he's the plague is able to track him.
00:46:27
Speaker
Now, meanwhile, Dade, Freak, and Serial head over to a squatted out apartment that houses the final member of their merry brand of hackers, Lord Nikon. He apparently is the only one that is not currently in school. It's hard to tell whether or not Serial is in school, but I- Serial is- He's in school! Like he appears in the classroom. Yeah, yeah, he goes to the classroom. He's into a school building.
00:46:56
Speaker
I don't know if he's matriculating. ah But Lord Nikon appears to be a little bit older than everybody else. He's got his own place. I'm pretty sure Serial is homeless. He's always asking to crash on somebody's couch. Now, ah freak vouches for Dade, who is now going by the name Crash Override. They all go inside to watch a pirate TV broadcast hosted by hacking superstars Razor and Blade, a pair of Libertine Asian dudes.
00:47:24
Speaker
Now back at Joey's place, Joey gets busted by the FBI, led by Agent Gill, our main FBI guy played by that dude from The Wire. The the plague explains to the board of directors that Joey uploaded a virus called Da Vinci that will flip over 26 oil tankers.
00:47:44
Speaker
This is of course a lie, but it does give the plague the excuse he needs to hunt down Joey so that he can retrieve the garbage file. Sorry. good go Go back. Just, just, just good. That's, that's bunk from the wire. Is it? Yeah. That's bunk. That's bunk. Son of a bitch. Oh no, I did not. No, that's a total, that's a total mindblower for me. No, uh, that's amazing. Okay.
00:48:10
Speaker
That's our second wire cameo. We also had McNuddy back on the Spice Girls. All right. Wow. All right. I'm going to be thinking about that for a while. Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead. No problem. So. ah This garbage file contains evidence that the plague has been skimming in a Superman 3 slash office space style.
Antagonist 'The Plague' Analysis
00:48:30
Speaker
They call it a salami scam was what I heard. Because you're just taking off a little slice of every transaction. And he's doing it with the help of board insider Lorraine Bracco. I'm sure her character has a name. I'm sure I don't know what it is.
00:48:46
Speaker
ah
00:48:49
Speaker
Angela? No. Could you can guess that for any Lorraine Baraka? Yeah, that's what I realized as soon as I said it. What is she even doing there except to provide like for the the base level of the audience? Like dumb it down a shade. That's every line that she has in the movie. Like, yeah, she's a very sexy baby. That's her character. She's a sexy baby.
00:49:18
Speaker
ah Now, their initial search doesn't find anything because Joey put the file on a disk and he put the disk in an air duct. So the mv the FBI releases him and they pin a tail on him. Well, the play figures out that Zero Cool, aka Crash Override, aka Dade, is one of Joey's known accomplices. So he goes over to Crash Override slash Dade's house and gives him the old, we're not so different, you and I.
00:49:48
Speaker
Yes. All my life. I search for a worthy adversary. That's right. We got a worthy adversary, fans.
00:49:59
Speaker
So ah that night they go to a party at Kate's place. ah They figure out that Kate was acid burned, the hacker that Dade crossed swords with earlier. And ah this clearly was the inspiration for the other great cyber romance of the 90s. You've got mail.
00:50:19
Speaker
Ah. Classic from enemies to lovers situation. now the Kate and the boys geek out over her cool laptop together for a little while. And Kate and Dade challenge each other to a hacker's duel to see who is the most elite. They will both try to use their hacking abilities to ruin Agent Gill's life. And then we get a little montage of them doing just that.
00:50:46
Speaker
After that, we get a dream sequence. One of many. ah There are a lot of dream sequences in this film. This is the only one that I'm going to mention up. Yeah, most of them anxiety dreams about getting caught. And also c sort of sexual. Yeah, Kate's is actually very sexual because she dreams of Dade wearing a high cut red vinyl bodysuit, which does sort of explain why we never see her boyfriend Curtis again.
00:51:11
Speaker
oh So, I mean, this is this is really interesting, and I think that that that piece is very interesting because, like, what she's doing, she says, okay, but then you have to wear the dress. And she's doing that to undercut his masculinity, right? When, in fact, she's kind of into it. Like, that's the whole point.
00:51:31
Speaker
That's the whole idea. I said to Chris when we were watching it again that she committed the fatal error of daring a guy to wear a dress and then realizing that it's actually incredibly hot. Right. And then there's something going on. We played ourselves like that. No, she definitely had to like, oops, I think I just learned something about myself situation.
00:51:53
Speaker
Now, ah that day, the plague UPS's dade a fancy new laptop. And he tells them that there are samurais. They are keyboard cowboys.
00:52:06
Speaker
my life i search for a worthy adversary okay But, uh, Data's still not particularly interested in what he's got to sell. ah the tu thetata So Joey, he gets ungrounded, so it's not all bad news.
Clever Plot Devices in 'Hackers'
00:52:25
Speaker
And he sneaks the garbage disk to the freak, who's able to hide it in a men's bathroom before the FBI raids his house and arrest him.
00:52:36
Speaker
While in lockup, he uses his only practical bit of phone freaking to call Kate secretly. He doesn't want the detective to know he's calling Kate. So he phone freaks the phone over to Kate and it tells her to go pick up the disc in the men's room.
00:52:53
Speaker
Well, but so this makes up for that line, this makes up for the line, you screw, I hope you don't screw like you type. Because he says, I put it in that place, I put that thing that one time. And yeah that establishes the relationship between these characters so well. yeah And the fact that it's the men's room,
00:53:16
Speaker
Like, and that is great writing. Yeah, that's a good moment. That is great writing and it's it's great writing. because, so what is he trying to do? He's trying to convey information without letting anyone in on it, right? And they have they have such a close relationship that they can do that. And it's, I really like, even on on the rewatch, it's like, that's really solid. That is a solid piece of plotting, it's a solid piece of writing.
00:53:51
Speaker
Now, Kate goes and grabs the disc, much to the surprise of all the dudes hanging out in the men's room. And she and Cyril bring the disc to Dade to try and get his help. Dade, he's only half interested. He's a little nervous. He doesn't want to jam up his life and the plague is already coming around. The FBI is already sniffing around. and we did i I was thinking about this. I think the plague is like saying, like, where's that disc? And so they're like, I have this disc. And so he's just like, I can't.
00:54:19
Speaker
do this. If i go i'm they've just told me there is a disk and now I do know where it is. So now I can't say I don't know where it is. Right? Yeah. The plague is now threatening to hack a criminal record up for Dade's mom. So Dade makes a copy of the disk.
00:54:38
Speaker
And gives it to him as he skateboards by hanging onto the side of a limo. Just one, one other good little character piece here that it it didn't really occur to me, but he doesn't want to have anything to do with it. Right. Yeah. and And the refusal of the call is getting really frustrated. Right. And she says, she's thinking and she's like, okay, just make a copy.
00:55:01
Speaker
And she knows 100% that there is no way that he can have a copy without looking at it. Looking at it, yeah. yeah She is 100% certain because she knows, because she's the same person, right? yeah There's no way that she can have a copy without looking at it. It's true. And he can't, like you see it, not great, but right, exactly. You see it.
00:55:26
Speaker
in the actor's face where he knows he's been caught because he can't say no. And if he can't say no, then he's going to wind up looking at it. And so yeah it's not just that he he agrees to make the copy. It's that she's she psyched him out. It's true. She played the player.
00:55:49
Speaker
Uh, but he does end up giving a copy of the disc to the plague. So she, she might've made a little bit of a tactical error on that. And you, I think you did mention, he does it on a skateboard. I just feel the need to describe the scene. Cause it's just him it's great holding onto a car handle, a limo handle and just like coming by and then like letting go grabbing the disc and then grabbing the handle again and then driving away. And it's just like, why did we do this? But I love it.
00:56:19
Speaker
Yeah, he totally could have been in the limo, but that's not the plague. Or he could have just skated by. Yeah. Well, he took the limo to the end of the block, and he's like, I'm going to do this in a cool way. But he's also trying to demonstrate, even at that point to date, it's like, look how cool I am am. Like, don't you want to be this? Like, yeah look at this. I have a limo, but do I drive do i ride inside it? No.
00:56:49
Speaker
I'm too cool for that. I wear a duster and I skateboard right next to it and snatch the disc out of your hand. Don't you wish you were me? So, Dade goes back to the crew and tells them what he did. they're They're kind of mad, but they still need his help. So, they have an all-night hack sesh.
00:57:10
Speaker
And eventually they figure out that the plague is embezzling millions of dollars with his weirm and ah he's going to frame them. Can we talk about this hack sash for just a second? Yes.
00:57:26
Speaker
Sorry, Chris. Keep an eye on the prize here. I'm really sorry. There's something essential about this access you want to talk. Well, yeah, I mean, so you have him sitting there do to tooodoodoooooooo do and everyone else in high speed, they're dancing, they're kibitzing, they're doing all of this stuff. And he's just totally into it. And oh yeah yeah, again, this is like cinematically demonstrating Firstly, he's the top dog. He's the one who's doing this. Everyone else is kibitzing around him, you know, and there's an almost identical scene in ah in Silicon Valley, right? Like they took it from this specifically. Oh, I don't think the makers of Silicon Valley have seen hackers.
00:58:12
Speaker
and Dade reveals that he was once the iconic hacker called Zero Cool, to which Lord Nikon responds, I thought you were black, man. Great moment. and But they're all excited to have such an iconic hacker on board. They realize they need to team up and ah hack the plagues Gibson before he flips these oil tankers and frames them, but they're going to need help.
00:58:40
Speaker
So Dade and Kate go to Blade and Razor's pansexual cyber club and recruit them. And they in turn recruit hackers from all over the world. England, Italy, Russia, Japan, all the, the they they're from everywhere. And how awesome is that club? Yeah, it's incredible. Like these guys, what do they do? They party?
00:59:03
Speaker
They have a YouTube channel and they and they party and they have a YouTube channel and they hack. And it's like, these guys don't ever sleep. They're just going 24 seven. Like, yeah Oh, I wish it could be like that. I just thought parties are incredible, but they just looked to like it's just like, God, I just want to be there.
00:59:28
Speaker
Yeah, imagine a rave where you're also hacking into the NSA at the same time. Yes. So they all meet up and they rollerblade through the streets of Manhattan using their hacking abilities to change traffic lights in their favor. And they roll down to the lower concourse of Grand Central Terminal And at the appointed time, hook up their laptops to assorted payphones and start hacking. This begins the epic hack battle that consumes the majority of the rest of the film. Uh, there are cookie monster viruses based on a real virus. They've got kernels. They've got Trojans. Uh, they got hackers from all over the world running some sort of denial of service attack. It appears you name it. It's going on.
01:00:22
Speaker
The plague traces them to the lower concourse and calls the phone back. You can't beat me, he tells Dade. Maybe I can't, but we can, Dade responds. The true ethos of the film right there. That's your trailer moment. That our collective action can take things down through cyberspace. I can only say that this was so near and dear to my heart, because if you were, it felt this way, it wasn't true, but it felt this way. If you were part of BBS culture, you had this ethos that we are going to collectively bring the new enlightenment to the world.
Hackers' Unity and Cultural Significance
01:01:14
Speaker
and they do it, right? they They do it in this movie and I think there's something similar in in sneakers, right? Which yeah I don't remember if it was before or after. ah Before. It was before. It's a very similar ah sort of evocation of this, where we we're all cool with each other, we're all in the same wavelength, even though we don't know each other, we don't speak the same language, we don't we don't even use the same, you know,
01:01:45
Speaker
We don't use the same operating system, right? We're all we're all in this together and weep in every corner of the world, there's like little pockets of enlightenment that are just waiting, just waiting to jump out the man.
01:02:02
Speaker
Well, and it it sort of reminds me of a conversation you and I once had about the movie Real Genius. And that they're both telling the same sort of lie, which is that when you're smart, people need you. Yeah. m And it turns out that that's not particularly true. Well, so I mean, it's it's it's very that that's so real genius really bakes itself in that lie, right? Yeah. When the truth of that movie, when you watch it as sort of an adult,
01:02:30
Speaker
When you're smart, people use you. That's what that movie's about. That's what that movie's about. And these like, I think that it's a different vibe because I don't know.
01:02:45
Speaker
Is Serial Killer, is he smart? would we like He goes out of his way to demonstrate that he's kind of a flake, even though he's a philosopher poet, so that sounds eccentric. But he's not a brain, right? He's not a brain. So this is much more the sort of counterculture thing, where you know you could be ah you could be a pencil neck geek at Stuyvesant High, which is you know where they were, actually you know actually. It's supposed to be Stuyvesant High.
01:03:13
Speaker
And so all of the kids in that class in the school, they're all like super, super high performers. But they're not on the level. The only people on the level are the people with the skills who are elite, who are hack.
01:03:32
Speaker
I completely forgot what I was going to say. Anyway, it's OK. It's not important. We're in the middle of a hack battle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't beat you. but maybe we can. So ah the hackers are stronger together. Indeed, Dade ends up getting booted, but junior member Joey is able to get the whole garbage file this time. Now Dade hides the disc in a nearby trash can o and loudly yells as he's being arrested, they're trashing the world.
01:04:06
Speaker
They're trashing it. Trashing our rights. They're trashing our rights, man. And Serial is hiding in the crowd nearby, looking very inconspicuous. As he does, as he always does, blends right into the background, total wallflower. Nine feet tall and wearing the sunglasses that Dracula wore in Bram Stoker's back door.
01:04:34
Speaker
And ah he goes and he retrieves the disc from the trash. While the hackers are being processed for jail and the plague and Lorraine Bracco celebrate a far from perfect crime, ah Serial hacks a broadcast television signal and tells the whole world what has happened.
01:04:53
Speaker
The gang gets released, the plague gets arrested while trying to flee the country, and Dade and Kate go on a date that ends with them smooching while fully clothed in the pool. On the roof. On the roof, right? Yeah. On a roof. On a roof. And the pool on the roof, this is an old hack, right? So the hacker's dictionary, which is kind of like a compilation of really old school, we're talking like late 60s, 70s and early 80s, anecdotes of what they used to call real hackers, who were the guys who had, it had nothing to do with, you know, breaking the law or anything, breaking into systems. The hackers were just the guys who knew how to use like the punch card systems. And one of the the old, one of the pranks
01:05:48
Speaker
was the was the pool on the roof. And so this was this was like a hazing thing in in the computer science departments of the time. So it too has its origin in sort of like hacker history. So it's kind of nice to see that made into delightful fantasy reality, right? yeah yeah Then they get to enjoy the real pool on the roof.
01:06:18
Speaker
Well, yeah final thoughts, five star ratings. Who wants to go first? I will. OK, I'm going to get this one a solid four stars.
Personal Reflections and Movie Ratings
01:06:29
Speaker
I think it's a fun little time capsule ah of an optimistic world. You know, as cynical as it is, there is an optimism in here, too.
01:06:42
Speaker
the the The cynical, the cynicism of this is all stage dressing, you know. These kids believe that they can change the world with the power of their hacks. And, ah you know, it's nice to ah to live in that world for a little while. And and I think it's it's charming. It's got a sexy cast. ever It's a fun night. Pop some popcorn. Who wants to go next?
01:07:09
Speaker
I can. I can. Yeah. Um, it's a, I, this is a five star movie for me. It's one of my favorites. Uh, it's been one of my favorites since the mid nineties. There we go. i yeah Fair enough. How about you, Greg? So this is the kind of movie. So I feel like I can say that this movie.
01:07:32
Speaker
Like I feel like I could write a book about this movie. Like as I watch this movie, some of the choices, I feel like it was coming from it from a different perspective. I felt a lot of what everyone else is feeling like this, this vibes movie that's very cool, enjoyable, um very like, um
01:07:53
Speaker
Very ah positive about the characters in everything, representing it that way. Also just full of constantly baffling choices. Fair enough. Like for a simple one is he's trying to figure out where to go to class. And so he's walking through a hallway and he sees all these students, doesn't ask any of them where the class is. He goes up to the kid on the phone.
01:08:18
Speaker
Yeah. And it's just like, why did you why would you why would you talk to that person? Like why of all of the people and there's you find little things like that. And even just like the end credits blew my mind because it's like they kiss and they're underwater and you're seeing credits and it's just them underwater. But I was watching it on Amazon and Amazon, whenever the credits start has little things like, do you want to skip the credits or here's what's next? I was like, that's weird that that hasn't popped up yet because that's not actually the start of the credits because then eventually the credits go away and then we zoom out to see them on the roof.
01:08:54
Speaker
And it's like, what perspective are we in at this point? And then the real credits start. And then the song is like really sappy, which doesn't fit the rest of the movie. The scope of the movie is bizarre because it's like we are in the house of a high school student and then also in a deep corporation and also government offices and then the police station and then a nightclub where no one is drinking alcohol because they're all high school students.
01:09:23
Speaker
ah It's also sort of surreal because like The people in it aren't teenagers, but they're playing teenagers The fact that there's no CGI because I watched it I was like I feel like there's not CGI in this the fact that that's They're using a non real space Shot in an in an actual way instead of using CGI gives it a real surreal feel like when they're when they're passing through all of these like columns of data. it's like Those are actual like glass pillars. like yeah It's weird to see something that is so abstract actually not be abstract in any way, shape, or form. like Be made of practical, real things. like I feel like I could talk about this movie forever. It is super entertaining. It's made
01:10:15
Speaker
competently and confidently, but it's still not very coherent at times. It's a five star for me. Five star. I love this thing. Really, really enthralled by this. Your final thoughts of five stars, Noah. So ah for me as a 17 year old, it's six out of five. ah you merely Clearly, clearly. This was the apotheosis of my beautiful dreams for the future, where I could be cool and and leet.
01:10:45
Speaker
and maybe kiss a girl? Sure. Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? No, we've got good news for you. Yeah. You are cool. You are elite. And I know you've at least had sex with a woman, so I'm pretty sure you've kissed a girl.
01:11:07
Speaker
Congratulations. Wow. You've done it. Thank you. Thank you. So I'm saying, as Johnny Lee Miller, right? That's that was like just implied there, right? Oh, like well, you used to get still bleach your hair. He's yes he's a cypher. But part of his cypher like nature is that you are he's the guy in the porno, right? You're you're you're. He's the Scott McCloud masking effect.
01:11:37
Speaker
you're you're you're projecting yourself onto him. um Now, ah as an adult, I think, I mean, there are obviously so, so, so many problems with the movie, some of which you know we didn't even barely touch on. Half half the audio is ADR, and obviously so. It's like, there's there's there's just,
01:11:59
Speaker
So many just technical problems. Forget about the ridiculousness of the narrative that it's tough to like bring it above even with everything else. It's like it's tough it's tough to push it above like a three out of five. um How I how I feel about this is how I feel about a lot of things that I I loved as a child and that I actually still am growing to love now, which is it's about it's seven tenths masterpiece, three tenths cringe.
01:12:28
Speaker
a Fair enough. And I can't, that's just me. That's just, you know, I can't seem to get away from it. It's like, would I, someone who didn't know me, would I recommend this film? Would I say, you know, you know, you know, a great movie that really represents me? Hackers. If I if i did that, if I did that, I would never see that person again, which is actually, actually what happened, right?
01:12:55
Speaker
like Judd Belstock wanted nothing to do with me ever again. I used him to get to see to that movie, which was also, I'm sorry, Judd. I'm older now. I regret doing that, but I had to see the movie, man, and and I hope you understand. Well, Judd, we send you our apologies. You grow up, and I'm now, what, 30 years older than when I saw it.
01:13:26
Speaker
And it hurts me in a way. um It hurts me that I was so sort of young and naive. And it's not about being uncool. It's about being gullible. And I really feel that. And it hurts me all the more that in those 30 years,
01:13:56
Speaker
In reality, everything I love about that movie was made a lie.
01:14:07
Speaker
Aw. That it turns out that just like in just like in real genius, and I mean, you're right, Chris, this is it's very, very, very on point, you know?
01:14:19
Speaker
ah when when you go online with America, you have America online with you. And it turns out that's not what you want. Yeah. You're not you're not Rorschach. They're not trapped in there with you. You're trapped in there with them. Yeah. Yeah. And it it turns out it turns out that, you know, no matter no matter what the neon new Jerusalem is, because that's what that's what Gibson describes cyberspace as. He says it's the neon new Jerusalem, whatever that is.
01:14:51
Speaker
you're stuck with humanity. And ah I guess maybe that's just growing up and maybe that sort of happens to everyone. um And I'm not like, I'm not like embittered, but it really does. It's a sad feel. and Watching that made me sad, you know? It made me happy to remember how I felt initially, but it made me sad realizing that kind of the last 30 years has been just a relentless attack on everything that was supposed to be beautiful. So I guess that's a bit of a downer,
Humorous Reviews and Final Thoughts
01:15:29
Speaker
but. um Well, I'm going to bring us back up as we head into the third part of the show. That's right. It's the review review already. Yes.
01:15:41
Speaker
It's time to forget i put the old review review song in here do it's ah radio review we've got review
01:16:03
Speaker
now ah these are all ten out of ten reviews that i picked up from i amdb Other people that hold hackers in as high esteem as our panel. Number one, 10 out of 10. This one comes to us from Funky Pizza 2001. All right. Okay. Written on September 22nd, 2001. Interesting to think about where their head was at at the time. Yeah. Uh, 10 out of 10 title, a great cyber film, three out of five stars.
01:16:38
Speaker
Hackers star Johnny Lee Miller, Angelina Jo Lee, Fisher Stevens, Matthew Lillard, Jesse Bradford, Lawrence Mason, and Lorraine Bracco. That's true. He's on point so far. This is one of the best cyber movies ever made. It sticks to its story, and that's what I really like about it. I have no idea what that means. Yeah. Johnny Lee Miller did a decent job in his role, along with Angelina Jo Lee.
01:17:07
Speaker
In this movie, Jolie's character, Kate, really isn't crazy about Miller's character, Dade. In fact, she hates him. But Dade has an obsession with her. oo Later on in the movie, Kate shows some compassion for him, and then at the end of the movie, they're a couple. That's really what the movie's about. yeah that That is the crux of it.
01:17:33
Speaker
ah This is where they both met for the first time and then later on got married. A year later they separated and in 1999 they divorced. The best parts of this movie is when Dade is not thinking about Kate sexually or otherwise. The love scenes. When I say love scenes, I mean when Dade thinks about Kate. When Kate thinks about Dade. When they just dream about each other, etc.
01:17:58
Speaker
Okay. Overall, this movie is great. It's not a must see, but it is worth paying five or nine bucks. Oh, nevermind. See, that's what I'm talking about. i Give it three at five stars. They're right there. That's what I'm talking about. Review number two. This one comes to us from Journo Bowie, spelled B-O-U-Y. I guess that's Bowie.
01:18:25
Speaker
ah March 29, 2006, 10 out of 10, brilliance in realism.
01:18:32
Speaker
I don't give a 10 for much. Okay, I do for brilliance in realism. This film, however, has stood out for years. Even today, it is technologically relevant.
01:18:47
Speaker
It has a realism that eludes most technological thrillers and an air of success, again, unrivaled by successors. Sorry, is that eludes E-L-U-D-E-S or eludes A-L-L-U-D-E-S? That is E-L, but air was A-I-R-E. Partial credit, okay. Whether it be Johnny Lee Miller's Charm and Wit or Angelina Jolie's Curves and Sex Appeal, this film has a lot going on.
01:19:17
Speaker
In short, this is brilliance. I can talk of computer as I am too a Linux hack. Wow. ah That's the zing of the day. You haven't heard review number three yet. I'm excited for that. I see the reality. For me, this film has so much to offer. I can't find it fault.
01:19:44
Speaker
The great soundtrack has lasted as one of the most downloaded to this day. This is an iconic film that is a showcase of technology. Nothing since has been so advanced in reality, sensuality, and thrills. The film has a plot and it is good.
01:20:04
Speaker
I wish reality, sensuality, and thrills had just been the tagline. Yes. That's much better than boot up or shut up. How how many how many reviews can you say? like It has a plot and it is good.
01:20:22
Speaker
um I mean, I can't argue. i Let's see. I have not seen such originality in acting and plot lines since War of the World. Nineteen fifty four. I put this in the same league. All right.
01:20:39
Speaker
That's a youno in the same way. oh Okay, this review, our final review was so good, I checked to see if the guy wrote any other reviews, he did not. ah It's KDouglas003 from February 6th, 2014. One review, one review, and this is it. This is it. This is his 10 out of 10 review of Hackers. Hackers is a film based out of cyber culture of North Carolina. It's been enough years that it can be said.
01:21:11
Speaker
This is a story out of North Carolina and the general atmosphere of computing in North Carolina.
01:21:19
Speaker
It allegedly involves a mother, but they crossed that out and put in an actor and a well majorly actress to support that role, which was the ideal. It is a great film. It was well put together. The interest for it was mined off the net.
01:21:40
Speaker
but there's a bit of an issue that people that were used for the story for the film remember having seen it in a theater when they never did and witnessed it in their sleep. Oh dear. There's enough supporting evidence to support this but as the film that made Angelina Jolie her career appears to have not done so well because she was detached from the origin of the film and it's possible appropriate credits were not given.
01:22:07
Speaker
I rate this as a 10 star film since I know the main story that it was based on and can provide photos and all of the background information that the film was based on to prove it. But I am mostly concerned that it was a kind of a twist on a story that was not good to promote it as good. And the general production didn't particularly understand that the original story was not good when releasing it to the distribution, indicating that it was a good thing when it's a good spin on a good thing and a good depiction and a great movie.
01:22:38
Speaker
Wow. okay Actually based on North Carolina. Fun little fun. North Carolina. Wow. I. North Carolina. I gotta say this is like. It's like you get those customer letters and you get to the third paragraph and it's like, OK, I understand your problem. OK, I hope I can help you. And then it's like. Oh. You're having a schizotypal delusion.
01:23:07
Speaker
It's like, oh, I had such high hopes for being able to help you and I can't help you. I hope someone can. I hope so too. And I hope you get all the credits you'll do for inspiring the film Hackers by your hacking culture in North Carolina. North north Carolina. Now, Anna, you you have the game this week. I do. All right. Well, let's hit it. It's time for a little whom do they love?
01:24:00
Speaker
Take it away, my dove. All right. So this is a game about the love interests of Angelina Jolie. across her career. oh I will apologize. it's a you know I know it's a little reductive to reduce an actress' careers down to the you know, men, she starred opposite. But if you look at her career, I am not the person who made that error in the first place. So fair enough. Yeah, an interesting thing um I realized as I was putting together this game um is it's
01:24:45
Speaker
Also a game where ah you'll be able to get a bonus point by telling me how many years older these men are than she is. Oh my God. ah Okay. All right. I'll give you the title, the year and a summary of the movie. And I'm just going to go um one by one and then okay you can have a chance to steal.
01:25:12
Speaker
Okay, I will start with my dear husband, Chris. Oh. oh ah The movie is Playing God, 1997. A disgraced doctor becomes personal physician to a mobster and falls for his girlfriend.
01:25:34
Speaker
Oh, I'm going to say Anthony Edwards. No. Gregor Noah. I feel like I should know this almost picture this guy, but I haven't got anything. All right, it is David Duchovny. Oh, I was thinking of the hair. I had the hair. I just couldn't put the face. I had no idea she played off opposite him. So yeah, yeah. And that 15 years old. Yeah, yeah. Classic. OK. All right. Greg.
01:26:09
Speaker
Number two, beyond borders, 2003, a socialized, abandoned or comfortable life ah to join a humanitarian doctor in caring for refugees. Oh.
01:26:26
Speaker
Oh, wow. Uh, uh, you really credit. Nope. and Okay.
01:26:36
Speaker
I'm gonna guess I'm gonna guess Jim Belushi. No. Whoa, weird. That's an interesting choice. It it could happen. It's true. ah Clive Owen, 11 years older. ok Okay. Okay.
01:26:53
Speaker
All
Discussion on 'Original Sin'
01:26:54
Speaker
right. It's familiar. Noah. Yes. a Original Sin 2001. In the late 19th century, a woman travels from Delaware to Cuba to marry a man she's never met. Wow.
01:27:16
Speaker
I'm just thinking of the on type actors who were active at the time.
01:27:25
Speaker
No, I don't have it. Sorry. No. All right. I'm going to guess Antonio Banderas. You got it, Craig. Oh, nice. Because that's what I was looking for. You want to guess how many how much older he is? ah I'm going to say 13. 15. Oh, I was going to say 15.
01:27:50
Speaker
Well, it's I've gotten around to you again. Okay.
Discussion on 'Playing by Heart'
01:27:54
Speaker
Playing by heart. 1998. Oh, yes. Is an ensemble cast of seemingly disconnected romances of like various ages and stuff. Okay. And she's she has one. Do you know her storyline? ah She plays a young woman who meets the guy at a club. Okay. They're at a club.
01:28:20
Speaker
Yes. OK, I'm going to say. o I'm going to say you and McGregor. Nope. Seems like a solid choice. Yeah, but yeah, I haven't got anything.
01:28:42
Speaker
Uh, Ryan Philippe. Oh, okay. Only, he's only nine months older, which is really wild because I don't, because she's been playing opposite men so much older than her for so long. And he was still playing like teenagers at the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
'The Good Shepherd' Analysis
01:29:01
Speaker
It doesn't seem.
01:29:03
Speaker
OK, Greg, the Good Shepherd. OK, yes. ah ah but About the life of a senior CIA officer. Yeah, life. God, it's not Redford, is it? No, yeah.
01:29:25
Speaker
Is it Woody Harrelson? Nope.
01:29:32
Speaker
Nothing from Noah? No, I mean, this is none of this is genre stuff. So i've seen any I remember a lot of these. I remember a lot of the titles. yes Yeah, she unfortunately, she doesn't have love interest in a lot of like her, you know, her assassin movies like doesn't have a love interest. Right. Remember salt. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm waiting for Beowulf.
01:29:56
Speaker
um i'm not on here either unfortunately but so good bird is matt damon okay Okay, okay, he's only five years older which really like that's fine. Yeah
01:30:13
Speaker
Okay.
'Taking Lives' Film Discussion
01:30:14
Speaker
Where am I? Number six, Noah taking lives 2004. This is an FBI profiler on the trail of a serial killer who assumes his victim's identities becomes embroiled in a passionate affair with his latest target. She's the profiler.
01:30:36
Speaker
yeah No clue. a No clue. Okay.
01:30:42
Speaker
Uh, I'm going to guess, ooh, I'm going to guess it's got to be Woody Harrelson sooner or later. Nope. Ethan Hawke. Ethan Hawke. I like the concept of taking on the identity of your victim, because it should be pretty obvious that you're not the person you're killed. You know, it's like, no, no, no, no, I'm Dave. You remember me. I look different.
01:31:08
Speaker
again
01:31:12
Speaker
Uh, Chris. Yeah. You might remember this one, the tourist 2010, a British woman in love with an elusive criminal meets and romances an American tourist in Venice in order to mislead the authorities.
'The Tourist' Film Highlights
01:31:29
Speaker
So Johnny a Depp. Yes. You want to guess how much older he is? Eight years. 12th.
01:31:41
Speaker
ah Well, still, I got a pretty good leader. Yeah. All right. I'm predicting you to win. Greg. Yes. Pushington. Oh, Pushington. Yeah. Yes. Oh, God, this is OK. Yeah. Continue. It's about air traffic controllers. No, I saw this thing in the theater. The wife of one and she does sleep with another. I was going to say, I was going to say, so I think I think this is Billy Bob Thornton. Yes. Correct.
01:32:14
Speaker
And how much older was he? I'm going to say 12 years. 20 years. She takes she takes full responsibility for it. That's entirely on her. Yeah. Was the other one John Cusack? Yeah. Yeah. talking ki Oh, my God. Well done. Jeez. You could have gone here to see that movie for some reason. I mean, it's about the most stressful job in the world.
01:32:44
Speaker
It's true. Yeah, it's not bad. I remember liking it. I remember it being okay. Yeah. All right.
'Alexander' Film Discussion
01:32:51
Speaker
Last one, Noah. we got Alexander 2004.
01:32:56
Speaker
and epping my Alexander the Great. Right. So she was Olympias and Philip phil was like Gerard Butler or someone.
01:33:10
Speaker
No. No. Who was it? Yeah. I thought it was Colin Farrell. I thought it was Colin Farrell. I thought it was Colin Farrell. So I should have counted. I should have thought of that too. All right.
01:33:28
Speaker
But sorry. What was, what was the answer? ah Val Kilmer. Kilmer is, uh, on um ah Alexander the Great's father. She plays. Right. Yeah. Yeah. What was the age gap? I need to know the age gap. 16. 16. Okay. Just for completeness. I needed to know.
Introduction of the Batty Awards
01:33:50
Speaker
Well, congratulations to me. Congratulations to you. You've done it again. Well, Greg, we got skunked. Yeah. Hey, ouch I never played a win. I only played a play. Well, Greg got on the board.
01:34:03
Speaker
you Oh, I did. Yeah. Billy. Oh, I got skunked. All right. That's the singing of both. baconque Yeah, it's skunk. Well, that's right. You guys want to do some baddy awards?
Favorite Small Movie Choices
01:34:16
Speaker
Hell yeah.
01:34:24
Speaker
Now you're messing with my.
01:34:48
Speaker
That's right. Congratulations to all our nominees. It's the Batty Awards. The only awards that we give out on the show. Who wants to go first? I can go. Yes, Greg. All right. Yes. So my there's a lot of interesting choices in this movie. There's a lot of small choices in this movie, but my favorite choice that is very small, very subtle. I don't know if anyone else caught it, but it's the fact that in the scene where the four of them are sitting at the table at the club and you're finally seeing the group together, Joey is smoking two cigarettes.
01:35:26
Speaker
Yeah, we've got one in each hand like you never get to see him smoke both of them. You got to look at the bottom of the screen and kind of see two ashes kind of sticking up. But it was just like the entire time I was like, see smoke, see smoke and two cigarettes. He's smoking two cigarettes at the same time. Love it. Absolutely love it. Well, I can go next because mine actually kind of relates. Yeah. And that's my realization
01:35:56
Speaker
uh you know obviously there are a lot of reasons why this story would never happen today you know we don't have analog uh uh internet and all that kind of stuff but another big reason is that joey has the worst case of ADHD that new york has ever seen which is why he's got got the two cigarettes and he's also always got you know he's telling his group that this therapy group that he's not an addict. Well, he's got coffee in one hand and a cigarette in the other. And I tell you what, these days, his ADHD would be getting treated and he would be like a less squirrely guy and maybe not get himself in so much trouble. Yeah, it might not even be a hacker. Yeah. What about you, Noah? Do you have a baddie award? So when they're doing that awesome hack at the end,
01:36:51
Speaker
and the phone booths are all... I love that scene. The phone booth scene is incredible. So did you notice how each one of them has a different piece of inspiration stuck to the wall? Yeah, so they had that on the subway too. They're putting those little like Xeroxed graffiti on like neon paper. But it's like be the hack you want to see in the world and that kind of thing. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. Very nice. So those posters are your baddie award? Yeah.
01:37:21
Speaker
fine choice. ah My bad award is going to go to the best reason to do less than your best. And that's of course, Kate saying, if I win, you become my slave. Obviously, that's, that's when you concede. ah Yeah, okay. You win. Great.
Plug for 'Arcane' Season 2
01:37:40
Speaker
ah And listeners, you win. You've made it to the end of the show. Congratulations. Noah, thank you so much for coming on today. Do you have anything you want to plug?
01:37:51
Speaker
You know, so I think last time I plugged Thunderbolt fantasy, which I would plug again. And so consider that a plug. Uh, but you know what I want to plug this time around is, um, uh, uh, season two of arcane, if you can believe it. Oh, okay I say that, I say that for the same reason that it's, it's seven tenths masterpiece three tenths cringe. And, uh, some of the finest, uh, most affecting character work and voice work that I think I've ever seen and.
01:38:22
Speaker
I mean, it takes a lot. I've seen a lot of animation in my day. But I feel like it's it reaches a level level of of technical virtuosity that um maybe and it's like an animation art circuit you might see, like way, way, way obscure somewhere. And even then, only like moments of it. But it's really affecting.
01:38:50
Speaker
And it's also really a video game. And so that's just where I live these days. It's just how it is. so Such is life. Yeah, such is life.
Encouraging Listener Interaction
01:39:02
Speaker
Well, you go listeners, you know what I'm going to do. I'm going to plug us.
01:39:09
Speaker
First off, you got your phone in your hand. You're about to change into another thing. You're about to do something with it. Check to see if you got some messages. I don't know. But your phone's in your hand right now. aren That much I know. You could leave us a quick five stars. Five stars is free, brother. You could even leave a little comment or you so could subscribe but or follow whatever your platform has got for you to do. Man, we'd love it if you did it. Another thing we'd really love You tell a friend, I know when I run into somebody, they always say, hey man, what have you been up to lately? And I never have an answer. You could say, hey, I checked out this new podcast, your favorite bad movie podcast. It's pretty good and I think you'd like it.
Final Podcast Sign-off
01:39:54
Speaker
Now, if you want to reach out,
01:39:57
Speaker
to us. You can email us at FavoriteBadMoviePod at gmail dot.com. You'll also find in the show notes our link tree which will take you to our Instagram and our Blue Sky and our YouTube page where I've got a bunch of fun trailers that I've been making. You can check those out and indeed right now you can go in there and you can check out our trailer for our upcoming best bad movie of the year episode. That's right. Our very next episode is going to be our best bad movie of 2024. We're going to be talking about Madam Web. Yes, you don't want to miss it. So ah come back for that next week. We hope you had a good ah holiday season. We hope you have a happy New Year's. We hope you come back and tune in and see what we got in 2025. And until then,
01:40:51
Speaker
Be good. Goodbye. Be good. Be careful.