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Personal Advice! + Netflix's White Hot, the Kardashians, and Art News
180 Plays2 years ago
In addition to this artful personal advice episode, in our CHITTY CHATTY segment we talk about the new Netflix Documentary “White Hot— The Rise and Fall of Abercrombie & Fitch” and Hulu’s The Kardashians.
For ART NEWSSS we take a look at the board members at James Madison’s Montpelier who are stripping power-sharing status from the Montpelier Descendants Committee, a group representing African Americans who trace their roots to the community and the termination of staff members who publicly opposed the board’s vote.
For all of Artpop Talk's resources, click HERE.
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Transcript
Approach to Giving Advice
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to Art Pop Talk. I'm Gianna. And I'm Bianca. Gianna, do you typically think of yourself as a good advice giver? Well, I guess we'll find out soon, won't we? I don't think I'm unhelpful, but I probably straddle the line between sincere helpfulness and sarcastic uselessness. Wow, that's a very, very honest answer about giving advice, and I really appreciate it.
00:00:29
Speaker
I definitely don't think I'm the best advice giver, but you know, I always try my best. And I think our friend Audrey said it best when she said those powerful words, I stand firmly in the middle.
00:00:42
Speaker
She also famously says, it be like that sometimes. And in today's episode, we're answering all the personal advice questions because sometimes it be like that. These questions are coming from the amazing Art Pop Tarts, and we are going to try our hardest to give you the best advice possible. Yo, yo, howdy, howdy.
00:01:10
Speaker
Howdy, howdy. I actually solicited some kind of advice from Audrey the other day. Mostly, I was just really upset by this fortune cookie that I felt personally attacked me. Even and I were at dinner and I sent her a picture of it and it said, if you're feeling down, try throwing yourself into your work. I was like, is this a fucking joke?
00:01:36
Speaker
And she said, definitely a very sick joke. As Charlie, her husband, and I often say, sometimes it be like that. And the congregation responds, and sometimes like that, it be. So damn. I was like, that's what I needed. Are you gonna try it out? Are you gonna give it a test run? No.
00:02:03
Speaker
No. I mean, you could throw yourself into ABD, which you do like every week, but... Yeah, I just... Hopefully that lifts your spirits. I was like, um... No, thank you. Nah, I'm good. Thank you, though. That's so funny. Ridiculous. How are you doing? I'm doing very well. I wanted to tell you that
00:02:27
Speaker
This past weekend for Easter, I did receive a chocolate bunny and I did tell everyone this story about how you used to save your chocolate bunnies. You know what the I... Bianca always calls me a grubby little money grubber because I'm grubby money grubber. Grubby money grubber.
00:02:55
Speaker
I just used to like save and like store things, like nuts for winter, like my life depended on it. This nickel is going to be the last nickel that I'm ever going to have. So I must store it and I would count my money obsessively. And I would, if I got gifts or at Easter or Halloween, I would just save my like candy, like concentrated in later. Like a fucking squirrel.
00:03:26
Speaker
Like I needed to barter or something. Well, I used to eat my chocolate bunny in my two days. Which I did this time. I definitely ate it like two days and it was delicious. But I was telling them that Gianna would take little bites of her bunny and then like wrap it back up in the foil so carefully and then months later she would still have
00:03:53
Speaker
a big chunk of her chocolate bunny left. I just think the bottom was just always so thick. The top of the bunny is like hollowed out where like the ears are, but the base is like completely solid and I just could not, I don't know, I just, there's a lot of chocolate, man, I don't know. I don't know, I ate it. You didn't have any problems with it. I did not have any problems with that solid, solid bunny base.
00:04:21
Speaker
Disgusting. I hosted a mom this year for Easter, and I got her some cute little Cadbury eggs, but I made sure to get the caramel ones because those fucking cream ones are disgusting. Disgusting. And she always gets them. I'm like, why did you get the cream ones? It is hard to tell sometimes.
00:04:45
Speaker
No it's not. It says on it. And then when you open them up it looks the same. I hate like the color of it. It's like this like white milky like inner fill. It's disgusting. I'm like this looks sexual. I don't enjoy this. Ew, that's disgusting. Yeah.
00:05:07
Speaker
In my point, exactly. Oh my god. Okay, well, turning tables, let's talk about something else. I've been watching... You don't want to talk about sexual. Sexual Easter eggs. I mean, kind of. That sounds interesting.
00:05:31
Speaker
I've been watching two new shows, one show, one documentary.
Nostalgia and Abercrombie's Evolution
00:05:38
Speaker
I posted on our Instagram story last night that I was watching White Hot, The Rise and Fall of Abercrombie and Fitch, and it just, I think, was really triggering for everybody involved, but a lot of
00:05:56
Speaker
just nostalgia and kind of going down memory lane a little bit. And I don't know, Bianca, I was just curious if you had any
00:06:08
Speaker
standout memories about that storefront because I think based off like our age and kind of where we were in high school or middle school that was kind of close to being on its way out. So we didn't really, I feel as though we didn't really experience
00:06:29
Speaker
Abercrombie at its super height where they had male models or employees standing shirtless outside of the store. That was something I never saw, but the intimidation of the environment, the specificity of the retail stores, the exclusiveness of it. But also what I thought was so interesting about this documentary was several of the
00:06:59
Speaker
interviewees were talking about how their parents, one, didn't like that they work there, or two, just didn't like that store at all. And they kind of talked about this parent perspective very subtly, but it was something I picked up on because we were very much not allowed to shop there. And I remember that one year, and this was actually in elementary school, probably fifth grade,
00:07:26
Speaker
I got a shirt gifted to me from Abercrombie & Fitch and it was a green t-shirt with a white logo. I don't really feel like I am not the person that was as excluded from that storefront as plus-size people or people of color. So that store didn't dramatically affect me as it did.
00:07:48
Speaker
this whole entire other community, which is just ridiculous because as they talk about in the documentary, it's just a bad business perspective to have because you're losing out on money by being so exclusive towards people. It's just bad business practice. If you're going after the one high school king and queen of
00:08:13
Speaker
each school, okay, what? So you have gotten like five sales from those five people that fit your demographic. Good job. But I remember being very kind of like calculative about when I wore this shirt and it was a little bit of a kind of like a prize possession. And there was just something about wanting
00:08:34
Speaker
one shirt and I was allowed to wear it because it got gifted to me. I didn't buy it. I'm really glad we're talking about this. I have yet to watch the documentary but on Friday one of my colleagues who used to work in the retail industry was slacking us. I was like oh my gosh have you guys watched White Hot on Netflix yet and I am really excited to watch it.
00:08:57
Speaker
Abercrombie does have a very, very specific place in my memory. Part of it is very sensory in the fact that walking through Quill Springs Mall in Oklahoma City
00:09:10
Speaker
you just are hit with that Abercrombie scent. And I used to love walking by the store so I could just smell Abercrombie. And really, there was something about me that was afraid to go into Abercrombie because I knew I wasn't allowed to shop there. But on top of that, I knew that Abercrombie wasn't for me because none of the clothes would fit me. I'm just a very tall person and
00:09:39
Speaker
Being a girl that was taller than everyone else, nothing at Abercrombie fit my body. So I wasn't allowed to shop there. It was way too expensive. We weren't allowed in. But I knew from the few times that I had had experiences with their clothing that nothing was going to fit me anyway. So what's the point?
00:10:01
Speaker
And I think it's fascinating that Abercrombie is having this really interesting comeback because for the Casey Musgraves concert, that's when I was...
00:10:10
Speaker
out of a job and was struggling financially and I just needed something to wear to this concert. Well, you know, needed in the sense that I wanted something different to wear to this concert. And I saw in a Facebook group, Abercrombie was having this sale and so we get on and sure enough, I found this fantastic purple-y colored bodycon dress that came in a tall size.
00:10:38
Speaker
and i was like no shit abracrombie so it was really like one of the first purchases very recently that i've really made for myself by abracrombie and i i did in-store pickup so i walked to the abracrombie in boston and i went in their store and it was a really odd kind of experience walking in as
00:10:56
Speaker
a 26 year old woman buying this abracarmages, I felt like I just didn't belong in this space necessarily. But maybe that's also because growing up, I knew I wasn't allowed in there. And I felt kind of like imposter syndrome walking into this store, because I'm a very, like I said, I'm just like a very tall
00:11:14
Speaker
person that Abercrombie didn't make clothes for in the beginning. And so it was kind of a weird recent experience that I had going into their store. It's interesting because in the documentary they talk about this rebranding that is happening and their former CEO
00:11:31
Speaker
who is responsible for this exclusionatory. I'm just a disgusting person. Business practice, racist, business practice, ageist, all these things, which is just so, I mean, so horrible and sad to see for a lot of reasons, but it's like this person is just not well. They talk about
00:11:55
Speaker
his plastic surgery and this idea of him chasing youth. He was most likely a closeted gay man, but there was a lot of uncomfortable and abusive situations that came with his own issues being pushed on to particularly these male
00:12:17
Speaker
what they call models or retail workers. And it's crazy because even retail workers were labeled as models. And that was a term that they used to try to discriminate against who they could and could not hire. So they could essentially hire pretty people to work inside these retail storefronts. One of the most fascinating things that I love that they talk about was the photographer who's responsible for a lot of
00:12:44
Speaker
those quintessential Abercrombie, the black and white, black and white photographs by an advertisement photographer, Bruce Weber, who was also a gay man. It's so crazy because they talk about this relationship and how the advertising of Abercrombie and Fitch is inherently
00:13:07
Speaker
homosexual and how it was almost this inside joke for a young gay community looking at these advertisements knowing that there's something inherently queer happening, but yet the demographic that Abercrombie and Fitch is targeting is heterosexual and heteronormative, right? And knowing
00:13:30
Speaker
that these things happen behind the scenes with this photographer that also abused particularly these male models and how the focus was on gayness and gay men and how you never really saw women standing outside of these storefronts. There was really a focus on men's bodies, men's physique that was
00:13:54
Speaker
pushed to the forefront of Abercrombie. They mentioned an SNL skit that was basically making fun of this Abercrombie mall culture aesthetic, which is really how I think something like that was able to kind of take shape was a lot because of this mall culture in the early 2000s.
00:14:19
Speaker
Which is crazy. I'm like, should we do an episode on mall culture? No, I'm already like, my brain is buzzing with ideas as you're as you're speaking. I'm thinking Coastal Grandmother and then Abercrombie and Bitch episodes. Yes. I'm so down. So like, what are the visuals here? Like, what is the branding happening here? Because yeah, they talk about this idea of preparedness and pulling from
00:14:44
Speaker
like Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren. And they talk about these pop culture moments of Ralph Lauren in Clueless when her dad is like, what's the stress? And she's like, it's Ralph Lauren. And he's like, it looks like underwear.
00:15:00
Speaker
I'm thinking of the neighbors too, when Zac Efron at the end of the neighbors becomes an Abercrombie. Yes! I think that's really the only time that I'm like familiar with actual male models standing outside of Abercrombie because like you said for me, I guess at our mall I just never noticed it or maybe they were in the store and I never went in there so I didn't see them. I never noticed it but even when I think about when did neighbors come out 2014
00:15:24
Speaker
I feel like was that even happening in 2014? Like it seems almost kind of even outdated that plot line. But I wonder if it's also just a geographic thing as well. I'm assuming that neighbors is filming in LA and that may be like a common kind of a more common occurrence in a city.
00:15:52
Speaker
What I think is interesting about this rebranding to this moment that they're having is their new CEO is a woman. And yet we see so many jokes, there's a fantastic tiktok that someone makes.
00:16:04
Speaker
about putting on his Aussie accent like he has found some spot in the wilderness and it's this Abercrombie and Fitch stores. We can see if we look through the shutters, the relics inside. It's this broken down tomb excavation site or something. So if we're having this whole rebranding moment, Abercrombie is
00:16:34
Speaker
celebrating queer notes and celebrating different body types. It's trying to reach a larger demographic now. Why haven't they, for the love of God, tear down these storefronts? Because that is just a visual reminder of everybody's trauma when they see that in their local decrepit mall.
Abercrombie's Storefront Debate
00:16:55
Speaker
In your storefronts, you are literally gatekeeping.
00:16:59
Speaker
whatever the products are that you have. They're exclusive for a reason and the storefront makes it exclusive for a reason. In our town, there's only that one Abercrombie, or maybe there's two, we have two malls, but those storefronts still look like that and there's nothing in them. It's the same as the one here in Boston.
00:17:20
Speaker
It's this exact same. I just don't get it. Like, is Abercrombie and Fitch now just an online platform? But this brings up an interesting question. Do they tear down the storefronts? Because at this point, is that a racing history and a racing their problems? Should we keep those open and make them into a keep all culture life, make it into a museum and talk about how horrible you used to be?
00:17:45
Speaker
Mall museums, maybe we should take it to, you and I should each go to a mall and then document the mall and then come forth with an episode about our findings. Yo, I'm open to it. That's all I'm saying. Okay, we'll discuss post recording here. Post recording. So I had texted Audrey and Sammy Lucas, who were with us a couple episodes ago, and Bianca.
00:18:14
Speaker
And I texted them all a picture and I said, is this what caving looks like? Because a picture of Scott Disick is just a picture of Scott on my TV as I'm drinking a glass of wine. So I have watched the first two episodes of the Kardashians on Hulu and I am fascinated by it and
00:18:40
Speaker
I feel as though I'm a walking conundrum when I just consume the things that they say because I don't know how I feel about them because there are some situations that I'm like, you deal with anxiety, this is relatable, fuck the haters. Everybody is deserving of great things in life. I'm not trying to...
00:19:07
Speaker
tear you down to a certain degree.
Critique of Elitism in Media
00:19:10
Speaker
I really don't know you. I only know what I know. And you know, I'm not trying to like come for you and tear down your empire. Like I think you and your family, I keep saying this to like, the Kardashians are not stupid people. Like they are very smart. But there's one moment in episode two that I think is really fascinating. And it doesn't even come from the Kardashians. It comes from James Corden.
00:19:35
Speaker
Chloe is on James Corden probably promoting the new Hulu Kardashian series. And they document this behind the scenes moment because she's having kind of like an anxiety moment about going on the show. And James Corden comes backstage and he says, like, don't be nervous. Why are you nervous? Like, you know, when people say things about you or they scrutinize your appearance or anything about you, it's just because
00:20:03
Speaker
You know, they're internalizing things that they're going through and they're projecting that onto you kind of like fuck the haters moment and I'm like sure okay Yeah, like but then he said something that I just didn't feel like needed to be said he says Don't be nervous. We won. We won. You're drinking champagne on, you know, whatever a Wednesday at you know, two o'clock and
00:20:27
Speaker
We won. Isn't that so great?" And I was like, what the actual fuck does that mean? I was like, your moment of trying to like hype up this woman to like get over her anxiety is one thing. But then to go back to this elitist perspective about how like fuck them because you won, because you get to have this great life and you get to drink champagne while you're at work, everybody else can go fuck off.
00:20:56
Speaker
was so upsetting and fascinating. I was just thinking so much about how perhaps my
00:21:07
Speaker
perspective or opinions about the Kardashians aren't just limited to this family, but truly just celebrity at large. And how someone like James Corden, who's like your funny, friendly late night host, you know, like America's sweetheart,
00:21:27
Speaker
who can sing says something to a fellow celebrity and says you won. Everyone else can go fuck off basically is what I got from that. And I was like, and we're back. Yeah, it's wild. And then we have moments in this season where you can see how
00:21:50
Speaker
sometimes like Chris is being like disrespectful in the way that she talks to like drivers or assistants or basically people who are assisting them in any way, shape or form. But then you see how respectful some of the daughters are and pointing out her language and saying, you know, you can't talk to people like that. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. And we're just pulled back and forth into this
00:22:16
Speaker
elitism and acknowledgement of privilege that has put me on an emotional roller coaster and we're only on episode two. Yeah, maybe that's a future discussion to have as well. Well, yeah, I don't know if I have any have any thoughts because I just agree with you completely. And I have not watched the first two episodes. I'm definitely planning on it.
00:22:44
Speaker
I think it's also fascinating in the way that Abercrombie is fascinating. You know, it's just like a stamp on our culture and I am happy to tune in while also being critical. And I think that's just, you know what I mean? I think this is something that like you and I inherently do on a daily basis. I loved that. Happy to tune in while being critical. I feel like I, can we put that on a shirt instead of some like- Oh shit.
00:23:12
Speaker
racist, xenophobic slogan. What about like a baseball cap? Let's change it up. Like a baseball cap? I think like a cute pink baseball cap.
00:23:22
Speaker
I'm here for it. I think that's so cute. Honestly, I think that's so cute too. New tagline. New tagline. New tagline. Oh, happy to tune in while being overly critical. Yeah, sweet. There was also, I was listening to a podcast, I guess the Kardashians were just in court for the Rob Kardashian Black China case. And there's a court illustration of the Kardashians. And one of the podcasters was like,
00:23:51
Speaker
This is truly a work of art, like a relic to be in a museum down like the pop culture line. And I just feel like that's totally accurate. This like, you know, courtroom illustration of the Kardashians. We talked about courtrooms. I mean, we have the Johnny Depp case happening right now. So that's kind of absorbing some of my time. But
00:24:13
Speaker
Yes, yes. Well, we do have our news to get into.
Controversy at Montpelier Estate
00:24:17
Speaker
Should we still get into it? This is also important. Speaking of being critical, like, holy shit.
00:24:28
Speaker
All right, so this week's art news comes from two Washington Post articles from April 18th and March 25th. And I think it might be best if I just read a lot from these two articles and we'll link those on a resources page as always. And then Gian and I will debrief because I think all these details are just really important and
00:24:49
Speaker
And I don't know how to casually kind of walk you through it without just reading what happened. So Gregory S. Schneider wrote back in March, quote, James Madison's Montpelier estate drew national attention last year when the board that manages the historic home announced plans to share authority equally with the descendants of people who were once enslaved there.
00:25:13
Speaker
But that unique arrangement appeared in tatters as the board voted to strip power sharing status from the Montpellier descendants committee, a group representing African-Americans who trace their roots to the community. The vote caps at least two years of rising tensions between the board and the committee, even as Montpellier's reputation has grown as a pioneer in empowering groups who were traditionally marginalized by the telling of history.
00:25:41
Speaker
Quote, it is a complete reversal of their public commitment that was made on June 16th, 2021, says James French, head of the committee and a member of the Montpellier Foundation's board. Quote, it is a rejection of the principle of equality of descendant voices and it's very unfortunate because it's a missed opportunity for Montpellier to make history. That was back in March.
00:26:05
Speaker
Then this past Monday on April 18th, a new article came out by the Post by Gregory S. Schneider and Deneen L. Brown wherein they write, quote, several senior staff members at James Madison's historic Montpellier estate lost their jobs on Monday in what they called retaliation for speaking out on behalf of a group of descendants of enslaved workers
00:26:31
Speaker
that had been in conflict with the board of directors. Executive vice president and the chief curator, Elizabeth Chu, director of archaeology, Matt Reeves, and spokeswoman, Christine Moriarty, were all fired Monday, with another top staffer fired last week and two others suspended, according to a statement from the staffers and the descendants group. Quote, the work that we have done with Montpelier descendants committee in the six and a half years I have been at Montpelier,
00:27:00
Speaker
were the thing in my professional life that I am most proud of," Chu said in an interview. To lose my job over it is disappointing to say the least. Yeah, I can imagine. Oh my god. Reeves, the director of archaeology, who worked for 23 years at Montpellier, said he and other staff members were outraged by the firings.
00:27:21
Speaker
Reeve said he received an email Monday morning stating that he was terminated. An email. It blew me away, he told the Washington Post. To fire me today shows they have no interest in moving forward with this work to tell the whole truth history. They are looking to cleanse Montpellier of anything that goes beyond their message or any narrative that critiques Madison.
00:27:45
Speaker
It is unfortunate. It is taking Montpellier back in time. Montpellier had been the toast of historic preservation after launching an innovative effort in 2018 to give equal voice to the descendants of enslaved workers. Some 300 people were enslaved over a 140-year period at Montpellier. Last year, Montpellier's foundation announced it would seek structural parity with the MDC.
00:28:14
Speaker
meaning equal representation on the board of directors, which is authorized to a number of 25 members. The decision attracted widespread praise as an example for all historic institutions, but the board struggled to see it through. Of today's 16 members, five are descendants from enslaved workers. Three of those were named by the committee, two by the foundation.
00:28:38
Speaker
Last month, citing difficult relationships, the board chairman, Gene Hickok, led it to support a resolution to strip the NDC of its official status. Hickok said the board would still seek equal number of Black members, but would make its own determination of who qualifies.
00:28:57
Speaker
In an interview before the vote, Hickok said he remained committed to telling the full history of Montpelier, but that the board needed to maintain control. Chiu and Reeves were among some 40 Montpelier staffers who presented a petition opposing the step, which the National Trust also opposed. Since then, more than 6,500 people have signed the petition voicing support for the staffers and the NDC.
00:29:27
Speaker
On Monday, Reeve said in the news release that he had quote, devoted my archeological career to understanding the lives of enslaved men, women, and children who lived at Montpellier in partnership with the Montpellier descendants committee to be retaliated against by the Montpellier leadership for doing my job is a bitter irony. So that was a lot to read through, but I felt like all of those were just really important things to have you guys understand and take you through it.
00:29:56
Speaker
So Gianna, wowie. I mean these are just our historic institutions going back to their bullshit like we always thought they would. We got a lot of nice language thrown at us this past year at a bunch of different historical sites and museums and
00:30:19
Speaker
It's really funny seeing what's happening on the internet right now. Just everyone's back on their bullshit. I don't understand why this is the board's decision. I think it is disgusting to say that you've given a lot of people voices and that's great. But then once you have the ability to actually give people rights, then that's a totally other thing to you and you're not interested in that. So really, if you're not going to give anybody rights, you're not really giving them a platform for them to use their voice either.
00:30:48
Speaker
To your point, Gianna, in 2020 and 2021, people made a lot of promises and we have not forgotten about those. So if they think that they can just sneaky backtrack on their promises, that's not going to happen. And it's horrible what happened to those staffers, but I am grateful for them speaking out because
00:31:13
Speaker
That gives us a platform to talk about all of these horrific things that are happening in the museum world. It's horrible what happened to these staffers, but I am just very appreciative of their courage in speaking out against their former employer like this. I really don't have much else to add to this article.
00:31:38
Speaker
I'm thankful that it was written, I'm thankful it's being covered, and this is the kind of shit that we are keeping an eye on. Well, on that note, let's take a little break. Let's get some coffee, let's get some tea, simmer down, and when we come back, we'll get into some personal advice.
00:32:28
Speaker
Welcome back, everyone. We're here with our first personal advice segment, episode, theme, what have you. Gianna, can you think of the best piece of advice that you've ever given? Or maybe the worst piece of advice that you've ever given or received? Okay. You want to know what's the worst advice I've given to someone? Yeah. Oh, God.
00:32:58
Speaker
I can think of some bad advice that I've gotten that is kind of on par with some of the questions you guys have asked today about things happening in the workplace. You know, I've been told
00:33:16
Speaker
that I shouldn't shoot myself in the foot by not doing certain work and bringing my concerns to my employer's attention because that would hinder my ability to move up or get a different job or get the role that I am trying to achieve, which is horrible.
00:33:37
Speaker
advice because people in toxic workplaces will say anything to try to convince you to stay and to do things that you shouldn't be doing. So in light of all the kind of horrible working conditions that I've been in the past year and a half in talking to other people who are also trying to move towards positive work environments, I think some of the things that I've said to myself and perhaps other people is that
00:34:07
Speaker
You really have to just listen to yourself and at the end of the day, I think you have to be careful again of who you're asking advice from. And at the end of the day, you only know exactly what you're thinking and you're feeling and that
00:34:23
Speaker
thought or that feeling is probably the right one. And I think listening to your instincts and your intuition is important. And I think that you have to trust yourself because especially when it comes to what you're doing with your life, people have a lot of opinions about that, your family, your employers, your coworkers. And I think if I have maybe learned anything, I am also trying to remind myself to just
00:34:54
Speaker
to listen to what I'm feeling and honor those thoughts as they come. Yeah. Well, that's great going into this first question. So I'd like to kick things off with this one. Is it obscene to ask for a $10,000 raise after one year? I didn't negotiate when I got my job and I only make $45,000.
00:35:18
Speaker
but I think a yearly raise is like three to 5% and this would be upwards of a 20% raise. So Gianna, do you have, do you have some initial thoughts with this one?
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, some of my initial thoughts kind of remind me of my last hire and how I went about negotiating for that job, albeit unsuccessfully, but I think it's worth sharing. So I think there's a couple things to consider. When I started my job, I was told that I was eligible for raises and that was brought up
00:35:58
Speaker
brought up when I was trying to negotiate for a higher salary. And that will probably be brought up too.
00:36:06
Speaker
you in the future when you're trying to negotiate for money, they'll say something like, well, we do offer yearly raises, and this is what that will look like. For myself, I am not eligible for a raise until after I finish my first year of employment. So I think, and as I'm learning, that is maybe a common thing.
00:36:29
Speaker
Maybe just the working world in which I live in, that's a common thing. It may be different for you, but I would look into that first. What did you look at your onboarding contract or your hire contract and see what those stipulations are? The more information that you have in print or what you signed up for, I would look that over before you just blanketly go into any new negotiation because they might just say, you signed this and you've just finished your first year so you're not eligible. You're going to have to wait until the second year.
00:36:59
Speaker
So you do have to look at that. For myself, when I was trying to negotiate for more money, I was also looking at the salary range that was posted, which is generally like a $10,000 salary range. They'll give you the low end and they'll give you a high end. So I think in terms of asking just for a $10,000 range in general is not obnoxious in terms of what you look at
00:37:28
Speaker
what was originally posted and what they were willing to originally offer someone. So I think, again, going back to that writing is useful. I don't think asking for more money at any time is ever obnoxious. So I just don't want anyone to think that that is a viewpoint that we have. But I think it's also helpful to
00:37:53
Speaker
just kind of think about what is the worst thing that can happen and someone's gonna say no. That really sucks and that may not be fair and that may guide your next action plan if you want to stay there or if you want to leave if you feel like you're not getting what you need but at least you have an answer and that answer may be no and it may be yes. Yeah and I first off I would say
00:38:22
Speaker
The Financial Feminist podcast, Tori Dunlap, who runs her first 100K, definitely recommend following her because she offers a lot of tips about how to negotiate your salary. Always, always, always negotiate your salary. I don't care if they tell you it's not negotiable, you negotiate. That's something that a lot of women are not taught to do. And again, we've talked about this a lot.
Negotiating Salaries and Communication
00:38:50
Speaker
In the museum, creative, art, whatever realms, we are taught to be thankful for what we are given and I want that mindset to dissipate from all of our brains. So I would definitely recommend looking at her first 100k material. She just has so much to offer in terms of negotiating tactics.
00:39:12
Speaker
Second of all, just want to reiterate everything that Gianna said. It is never obscene to ask for more money. I would come forth with a plan on how to do so. Definitely talk about how much you have aided in whatever workplace, space, company that you are in, how much revenue have you brought to them, talk about how valuable you are. Also, I don't think it's
00:39:42
Speaker
obscene to talk about actual living needs that your salary needs to provide. And if $45,000 isn't meeting your needs, tell them what will meet your needs. And if that's a $10,000 raise, I say absolutely go for it. I don't think there's any
00:40:05
Speaker
shame in doing so. I don't think there's any harm in doing so. You are a valuable employee to them and you need to express that to them.
00:40:16
Speaker
Oh, and to Gianna's point, the worst that they can say is no, and maybe you get a 15% raise. And there's probably some negotiating that will happen back on their end, but what if there's not? What if they give it to you? Because you have demonstrated how valuable you are to them. And I think keeping that mindset in your head is so important. And I know it's really scary going into those types of negotiations, but the worst that they can say
00:40:45
Speaker
is no, and you can decide to take that no and go forth somewhere else. Okay, if that's not gonna work for you, I really appreciate everything that you've given me, but I need to find an institution that will meet my needs. And there you have it.
00:41:03
Speaker
It's interesting that you brought up this idea of just talking about your needs as a person, as a human, as a living, breathing organism in this world. That is a tactic that Theban had fairly recently used and we were discussing about all these big life things coming up and how
00:41:24
Speaker
He is kind of stuck at a certain position or level because of his immigration status, and that is frustrating on its own. And we are currently dealing with, and I've been dealing with for a while, but talking about
00:41:43
Speaker
especially how COVID has affected him and his family and needing to provide and support not just himself, but a larger amount of people. And I think when you go into a negotiation, it's this idea of the art of the negotiation. And I've got to be clever and I've got to be calculative about what I say. But at the end of the day, the worst they're going to say is no, or they're going to provide you with a different counter offer.
00:42:10
Speaker
But you know that you were just honest and straightforward about your living situation, your working situation, and you brought to their attention what you needed.
00:42:23
Speaker
Perhaps there is a good way to go about that and how you use your language, but I think it's also okay to be honest and express what you need. And if they're not forthcoming or receptive to what you're saying, then that's good information for you to have. Yeah, totally. So let's move to the next one, which is a little bit more on the lighter note.
00:42:50
Speaker
This art pop tart asks, can you tell me how to flirt with my husband? I try and he's like, wait, what? What you got? Honestly, I don't know how to flirt. I feel like I'm a terrible flirt. I don't know if Andrew thinks I'm good at flirting because on our first date, I was literally the most nervous.
00:43:16
Speaker
wreck of a human being.
Reflections on Dating and Relationships
00:43:18
Speaker
I was so fucking nervous. And we we joke about that a lot. So I don't even know if on our first date I was like flirtatious. I feel like I want to spend the rest of my life with this person. And I don't know how to talk to you. It was just so much like pressure with you and Andrew too, because you were a pandemic couple and you had been talking for like
00:43:40
Speaker
what like three months and then yeah there's this pressure to meet up and then you're like oh fuck i gotta meet this person now i say that my my trick is kind of like a rachel green joey tribbiani on their little like friend date that they go on and then joey realizes that he actually really likes rachel
00:44:01
Speaker
is like the running your hand up the leg. You didn't like that. So I definitely like to be more touchy feely. I don't think I know how to flirt with like my words or expressions. I think it just looks stupid whenever I do that. But I'm definitely like a
00:44:20
Speaker
scratching your hand or scratching your arm or putting my hand on your leg type of person. That's how I flirt with physically. Well, I think also case in point, this just pointing out the obvious, neither Bianca or myself are married. So
00:44:38
Speaker
Yeah, but you have a fiance. I have a fiance. I have been dating the same person for five years now. So that's a long time. And for myself too, it's just different because I am dating someone from a different culture where like PDA is definitely not like a well receptive like thing and also
00:45:03
Speaker
Theban comes from different relationships where there are laws put in place where you should not date that person because they come from a different religion and you have to be secretive and sneaky about who you're explicitly dating, which is super messed up. Coming from that trauma too, for him,
00:45:27
Speaker
not fully understanding that sometimes because I don't come from that lived experience, you know, sometimes I do, you know, I like that physical touch that's part of my love language or when we're in public, like I don't understand why it's a big deal for you to like give me a kiss goodbye or that type of thing and sometimes that gets
00:45:49
Speaker
hard for me and I think we have definitely like come a long way and finding a common ground for how we display you know public acts of affection but it's also this understanding about how he comes up from a culture where that is just so uncomfortable and like I have to be mindful about it but the other day it was kind of funny and I'm not gonna lie we kind of got into a fight about it because I
00:46:18
Speaker
Like Theban gave me a side hug and I was, ew, this side hug made me feel so uncomfortable. The way that just we interacted and that physical touch just made me cringe. Like I am your fiance.
00:46:36
Speaker
And I got the ick from this side hug. I was like really upset about it because I'm like at this point, you know in our relationship you like we need to be able to like just give a normal hug or give
00:46:51
Speaker
just like an air kiss or something. I am not your cousin. This side hug gave me the biggest ick of my life, you guys. Okay, so maybe flirting comes with a front-facing hug. That's all I'm looking for these days, so I don't know what this listener is needing.
00:47:15
Speaker
I think from that fight turned conversation, it was good for us for Theban to also see where I was coming from because I do have to be cognizant of this other background because we are living in a place where I am more accepted, a place where I am from, living in environments that I'm more comfortable in. But my partner needs to be aware of how this fucking side hug also affects me.
00:47:42
Speaker
So maybe my answer is communication. I don't know. How to flirt is communication. It is really bad but like I feel like honestly though that is a part of like when you're in a long-term relationship that excitement can go away and sometimes you just it's hard to like ask for because you think that that takes away the spontaneity away.
00:48:08
Speaker
But I think having a conversation about how when we go out, I need you to like flirt with me. It might be like we're putting on a little show or like an act kind of, but like I need, I need something. Flirt. Yeah. I think it's okay to ask for it. I don't know. Okay. So ask, maybe ask your husband to flirt with you. Yeah. And that way he's not like, what? Ask, ask him to flirt with you. Yeah. Turn the tables. Turn tables.
00:48:39
Speaker
Okay, Gianna, how do you separate yourself from your work as an artist? You are definitely the one to answer this question. What work? Like what art do you think that I'm creating that I have to separate myself from?
Balancing Art with Life
00:48:55
Speaker
I think that's the funny part of whoever asked this question. You clearly
00:49:01
Speaker
have not done your research about me sis you can you can use apt as an example yeah no i mean work at large can mean a lot of different things for an artist i think i have perhaps a different opinion about this that some artists may have or that i've come across where i just don't agree or i just don't jive because i think when you
00:49:31
Speaker
put everything you have into one thing. I think that's really destructive. And I think that is a mindset that a lot of artists have, that you have to live
00:49:42
Speaker
breathe and eat and consume are all the time. And if you are not 100% in it, you are not going to be successful at it. And I think that's a really toxic way of looking at the art world because that is another example of how we get to putting art in a different box compared to other career paths.
00:50:05
Speaker
Where other people get to leave home at five o'clock and they get to eat dinner or go see a movie or go to the gym and they get to do whatever they want but but what because you're an artist like you are supposed to be in the studio like till midnight because
00:50:21
Speaker
that's the label that you get set with. So I just think we value our family and our friendships and our relationships and our lives. And for me, like those things are always just going to be more important than other things in my life, like my career, like I value
00:50:45
Speaker
relationships and friendships in my family way more than I value my fucking art. And if that sets me apart and isn't going to make me a successful artist, then I don't really know what to tell you. I do think that there are a lot of incredible artists out there that have a healthier mindset. Like Yatico Star Fields has a super healthy mindset about art and this breaking down this idea of the tortured artist and
00:51:12
Speaker
doing things in his life and having other interests that make him a better artist, like traveling and running marathons, being a healthy person makes you healthy in other aspects of your life. So I think if you're trying to separate yourself, I think having other interests and outlets are really important because you're going to get burnt out
00:51:38
Speaker
If you only are doing this one thing, you are a well-rounded person with other interests and other things that you have to accomplish in life. And it can't just all be about art contrary to what the world thinks about an artist, you know? A renaissance person. L-O-L. That was a fantastic answer, Jana. Oh, thank you.
00:52:07
Speaker
I've had a lot of practice about not making art, so I've got that one down. Bianca, how do you feel about Marcel Duchamp? This is not really personal advice, but maybe we'll advise you on how to approach his art. That's really funny because I know of a single art pop-tart who
00:52:34
Speaker
I feel like this art pop tart, I don't, that's not the person that asked this question, but thinks that I like aggressively hate Marcel Duchamp. And at this point, it's just kind of like a bit between us where he's like always going on about Duchamp and then thinks it's getting my panties in a twist, but it's really not. I think that Marcel Duchamp is an artist that I love to hate and
00:53:02
Speaker
It's really just for fun. Like I just kind of hate him for the fun of it. And I think that Marcel Duchamp is an incredibly innovative and ingenious person. And I don't really like to use that term lately, but I think with the concept of
00:53:23
Speaker
the readymade and the fountain. It's just so fucking funny to me that like this person
00:53:32
Speaker
would have the audacity to bring a urinal to an art show and present it to like some loser art people and be like, yo, this is my fucking art and now it's in museums and just the whole hypocrisy of Duchamp bringing this to the armory show, presenting readymades, working in readymades and then for readymades to be critiqued by
00:53:59
Speaker
art world and now is an establishment of the art world. I think it's just like the cyclical nature of that is so fascinating and I kind of just like to relish in the idiocy of everything that encompasses the work of Marcel Duchamp. Nude Descending the Stairs is
00:54:21
Speaker
beast that we have previously talked about on the podcast before in that's not it sis had a hate on art episode oh my god Bianca I was looking at some of our old tiktoks and I saw the one that I made of everybody's quotes about art that they hate and I really want to do it again because you guys I think like there are works of art by Duchamp that
00:54:50
Speaker
I don't like that. I don't think are funny that are problematic. Like the piece that's at the Philadelphia Museum of Art, you know, like the Jean Dumond installation. Yeah, you know, I think that there's
00:55:04
Speaker
in addition to the innovative nature of his artwork and the disruption that he added to this space. And really, I'm gonna say we are on the same level as Marcel Duchamp. We are being critical of the art world in, I think, a really productive and funny way. So APT is the ready-bait of the museum podcasting world. Make that comparison. But that doesn't mean that
00:55:34
Speaker
He wasn't looking at it from a, you know, privileged male perspective. You know what I mean? Like there are still works that have created problems or in my view are disrespectful to women. He still lives in a
00:55:54
Speaker
a problematic space, but like we talk about with every artist, with every work of art on this show, that does not mean that we can't use those works of art to propel a different kind of conversation forward. Like that work of art doesn't have to exist for me as, you know, the principal foundation of amazing culture, but it can be useful in the sense of the production of a different kind of conversation. And why is this work
00:56:22
Speaker
innovative but also stand as something that is hurtful and problematic and something that I don't like and that I don't find appealing.
00:56:31
Speaker
That's just such a great answer. Just kind of broadening this question. You know, how do you navigate? Again, kind of like we talked about in our That's Not It's This episode. How do we navigate talking about art that we don't like? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. But I mean, so good then. Oh, oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. I just I think like Duchamp and Warhol are kind of honestly I would like to be in a room with them just like fucking watching them like
00:56:56
Speaker
dismantle some typical gallery showing, you know what I mean? There is a new Andy Warhol documentary. I think it's on Netflix. I have absolutely no interest in watching it at all. I think, like, Steven asked me, it's like, have you watched that? Like, absolutely not. You were asking the same thing about this Andy Warhol thing. I was like, zero interest. I'm good, sis. Like,
00:57:22
Speaker
You know, I love Andy in the sense that he's like a fucking asshole. Like, fuck you. But like, I just, I truly feel like this is one of those cases where I'm not sure I have any more to learn. Like, I think I'm not sure that I have any. I'm sorry. That's another teacher comment. I just don't think I have anything else to learn here. Okay, so we have two new teacher ideas.
00:57:44
Speaker
The second one being, I don't think I have anything else to offer. I'm good. With like an Andy Warhol. You don't gotta worry about me. That's hilarious. Okay, ooh, next one. This is quite convenient because I have to go to the grocery store later this afternoon. What should I make for dinner tonight? Plotted this question in advance so I'd have to make one less decision this week.
00:58:11
Speaker
How clever. Happy to be of some actual use. I made some tilapia recently and I feel like I forget just how much I really like that fish. I probably
00:58:30
Speaker
which is like disgusting because I actually hate fish they really freak me out but I feel like I have to trick myself into liking salmon sometimes because it's like good for me and like like fish oil oh yeah you know what sounds great tonight salmon no disgusting it's like I know but like it's not that I don't
00:58:51
Speaker
Not like it. I just don't love it. But you know what I can really get on board with is some tilapia. I feel like that's such a nice fish. And I like that it's thin. I just get really weird about cooking meat. And sometimes when I get a piece of salmon, it's just really thick. And I'm worried it's not cooked all the way. So tilapia is such a nice, easy, I don't know.
00:59:12
Speaker
meat to cook with. Oh, I could get it done with some fish. Just tilapia and like a taco, like a fish taco is just so good. Very fresh cilantro. Yeah, and it's just like easy peasy. So that's what I would suggest. I've been wanting to make crispy rice. That's something that I've been wanting to make lately. Speaking of salmon, because I saw this reel or something that was
00:59:38
Speaker
salmon crispy rice and that just looked so freaking good. I love crispy rice. Something that I have been making a lot is
00:59:47
Speaker
sesame cauliflower over rice and veggies. I did like a little stir fry and I had nice veggies in there and then I made like the equivalent of something like orange chicken or sesame chicken but I used cauliflower instead and that's something I made last week and honestly the fried rice that was it's really freaking good. Phoebe and I make a lot of like just stir fry because yeah he eats so much and
01:00:17
Speaker
Obviously we eat a lot of Asian cuisine in this house. So it's just like nice and good and easy one thing that I really like to do if I'm also making like Tacos because if you have shredded lettuce or if you have a little like, you know shredded carrots or anything you can make a
01:00:32
Speaker
little like spring rolls like really easily too with all of that stuff so one of the things that I use in my air fryer I don't probably use my air fryer a ton a ton but I really like it to make like spring rolls or you can make wontons or samosas in there all of that stuff is really good in the air fryer oh and I made fried okra in the air fryer too
01:00:56
Speaker
Yum, I love fried okra. Speaking of spring rolls, something I love to put in my spring rolls that you love Gianna is mango. Some mango in a spring roll with carrots and cucumber, avocado, rice. So good with like a little sweet honey sauce.
01:01:14
Speaker
Oh, shit, you know what? Okay, wow, this is turning into probably a longer answer. This person was like, just give me one answer, please, not all this shit. We all prep for the week. When Theban and I went out to eat where I got that fortune that was so triggering, I got egg drop soup and I was just really in the mood for it and it was so good. And then I want to learn how to make it. And Theban and I were just looking at this fucking soup, like, how the fuck do you make this?
01:01:44
Speaker
Yeah, I've never made egg drop soup is not my favorite. I really, I'm surprised because it's just so salty and you are like a fish out of water when it comes to salt. I know. I know. It's just, I don't know. Maybe it's like the name has always brought like egg drops. Is that your version to like egg is egg drop soup?
01:02:05
Speaker
Yes. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know what it is. It's just like, it's not my favorite thing. It's fine if it's given to me with my meal. Like it's okay. It doesn't do anything for me. You know what I mean? Oh, I was like thriving and it got and it was like a nice little like size and I was like $3 and it was like holding it because it was like warm. It was so good. Like baby Yoda. Yeah.
01:02:29
Speaker
You look like a little baby right now with your soup cup. My little soup cup, anyways. So those are your options. You've got tacos, you've got tilapia, you've got egg drops, soup. Those are all the things that I've been hankering for. Some Asian cuisine, sounds like this week. Alright, Bianca, what would you tell someone considering a career or degree in the arts?
Advice for Art Students
01:02:57
Speaker
What would I tell someone considering a degree or career in the arts? I think that the biggest thing is now that I am where I am, lay out what you really want to do. And I know that's, it's very hard because that likely will change. Lay that out and talk with your advisors, talk with your professors.
01:03:22
Speaker
talk with us, talk with any person who has gone that same path. If you wanna be a curator, I just didn't have the wherewithal to really understand that it was a absolute must to have a PhD and really think about your time, your money, where you wanna go, what the landscape looks like. I think that's something that's really important, but I would also say,
01:03:52
Speaker
I wish that I would have added some other courses on top of that. So especially with considering a career or a degree, I would balance that. If I knew what I know now, I would balance that with a degree in finance or business or marketing. I would try to do a double major or minor in any of those things just to
01:04:16
Speaker
have a greater kind of wherewithal of the expanding nature of our world and really kind of hone in on maybe some other courses or subjects that you find interesting that could be an interesting career path for you down the line. Just you gain a more well-rounded kind of experience in other realms that could help propel you in a new direction. Obviously, we've talked a lot about how I've just switched careers and
01:04:45
Speaker
You know, Gianna and Sammy and Audrey and some other people we've had on the show have talked about how, you know, it would have been a great addition to have a business class. Gianna and I just went on an Instagram live where we talked about how artists are not inherently given courses or knowledge on how to market themselves. Having business classes to help you grow your business would also
01:05:11
Speaker
you know, be great. I think that something I've learned a lot from, from her first 100K and the Financial Feminist podcast, who I'm just gonna like promote, I just love her, has the second season that just came out this past week. I would take a finance class. I mean, I wish that I knew more about how to make my own finances work for me. And if I know that I'm going to have a career in the arts, I would wanna know how to
01:05:38
Speaker
take care of my financial situation. I think that's something that was really important to me. And knowing what I know now, I wish that I had more financial wherewithal from the outset of my professional career. So that would be my starting point.
01:05:54
Speaker
obviously those things can change very quickly and where you see yourself in this moment is not where you will be even for me like two or three years down the line so always feel free to talk with us too we're always here to help in whatever stage you are currently in because that's an ever-changing and evolving process. Gianna
01:06:16
Speaker
what you'd say to Kim K if you were the person so sitting advice on success and she told you to get your ass up in work. I think the woman would be too stunned to speak. Oh my god, could you imagine? Could you imagine? Here is what I would say to this and to this person. I
01:06:43
Speaker
think we are coming down from this early 2000s like toxic girl boss energy and how women in corporate America were experiencing a lot of burnout and a lot of 2010s. Yeah, just like a lot of height of girl boss. Yeah, a lot of pressure to be successful in these constructed terms of what success is, right? So to that, I just
01:07:13
Speaker
feel very strongly about the fact that success looks very different based on each individual person. Did you go to the gym today? That's a win. Did you cook dinner today? That's a win. Was that a goal that you wanted to accomplish, was trying to cook something? I'm not trying to also promote just gold star energy out here. Like, wow, I brushed my teeth today. Gold star, I don't have to do anything else for the day. Gold star energy. Gold star energy. I'm not here to hand out
01:07:41
Speaker
you know, gold stars for just like doing the bare minimum. And I get that. But also you get to define what your success is. And that is none of my business. You don't got to worry about me. Damn. That is just mind your business, Kim. Oh my god, more merch ideas are popping up left and right. Mind your business, Kim.
01:08:06
Speaker
So our last question for today is all yours, Bianca. How to balance life, art, and watching Netflix? Go. Oh, I feel like you should also partake in this question. How to balance life, art, and watching Netflix? Well, I think that life
01:08:27
Speaker
is art and Netflix is art. So really all of these things are the same for me. I personally find enjoyment in consuming media. I fucking love watching things. And that to me is, I don't know, it's kind of integral to my my routine.
01:08:51
Speaker
Maybe since working from home, which is a privilege in itself, I definitely think that I have consumed more media because I'm at home. I like to have some noise on in the background that is a very privileged
01:09:05
Speaker
way that I am able to intake so much media but I have a lot of that on in the background while I work but I think that I don't know I'm also someone that likes to go out and do things. I find a lot of enjoyment in just like walking around and kind of taking in the scenery and the weather is
01:09:27
Speaker
on the uptick here in Boston and I am finding a lot of enjoyment in just like going out and exploring and it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be going to a museum I mean I haven't been to one of the museums here in Boston since December but there's a lot of summer kind of art fairs that are happening or just like summer art walks or the
01:09:51
Speaker
There's like an arts district here in Boston that is releasing a lot of new spring and summer programming. And so I'm really happy to just like go and check those out. And I think I'm putting less pressure on myself to be like art exists within this music, you know, like this is an art activity because I'm going to an art place, but I think taking in
01:10:11
Speaker
visuals and media and aesthetic of everything around you is a really amazing way to appreciate, to have everyone appreciate the small artful and creative things that exist within your everyday life. And I think that's what APT, you know, is all about is just, we don't want those people who normally say like, oh, I'm not creative. Like, I just, I don't understand art to be able to find art and creativity and aesthetic enjoyment in
01:10:41
Speaker
whatever your day brings. Wow, what a nice way to kind of end the episode for a dancer on a nice little, I don't know, high note. You guys had some great questions. I feel like I have a solid structure for my life moving forward, just talking through these questions. I feel so together now. Truly, I really do. It's all coming together.
01:11:09
Speaker
Well, thank you all for sending in your questions this week. Hopefully we can do some more personal advice. Again, Gianna and I are always here for you. So if you ever have advice or questions that you are in need of or want to offer us, please email us at artpuptalk at gmail.com. Keep an eye out for next week's episode, also the May newsletter that will be going out next month. Gianna and I will have a big programming announcement about what our summer looks like. So stay tuned for that.
01:11:38
Speaker
And with that, we will talk to you on Tuesday. Bye everyone. Bye. Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci-Vinc. And me, Gianna Martucci-Vinc. Music and Sounds are by Josh Turner and Photography is by Adrian Turner. And our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.
01:12:16
Speaker
you