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Ryan Engler: A Chat with the Expert in All Things Cremation - Part 1
23 Plays4 years ago
Cremation has gone a long way since the first known cremation in 1876. Who better can give us the history of cremation than the Historian of the Cremation Association of North America (CANA), Jason Ryan Engler. He holds this position as well as that of Cremation Historian for the National Museum of Funeral History (NMFH). The museum was completed in 2018 with 80% of the exhibit being his personal collection.
You will learn of his baptism of fire in the world of cremation which started as early at the age of 12. A lot has changed in the process of cremation, and with its growing acceptance in the United States, this method of disposition is becoming more popular. It's yet another informative episode of The Glam Reaper Podcast, so just sit back, relax, and enjoy the learning!
LITTLE NUGGETS OF GOLD:
- Jason’s introduction of self, his qualification as cremation thought leader in the deathcare space.
- What made Jacob so fascinated in the history of cremation?
- The history of cremation from the historian of the Cremation Association of North America (CANA).
- How has the process of cremation evolved from the first known cremation in 1876 to now?
- What impact has Covid 19 had on the cremation?
- The statistics of cremation in the U.S., what is the rate of the change?
- What is the difference in people's acceptance of cremation as a method of disposition?
- Jason’s thoughts around the controversy of cremation on its effect on the environment.
- Is there anything the funeral industry can do to improve the world a better place?
- As a funeral director, what is Jason’s response to the green burial method?
- What are the cultural and psychological significance in keeping someone's ashes in an urn or niche?
Connect with Jason Ryan Engler:
Connect with Jennifer/The Glam Reaper:
Facebook Page - Muldowney Memorials: https://www.facebook.com/MuldowneyMemorials/
Facebook Page - Rainbow Bridge Memorials: https://www.facebook.com/rainbowbridgememorialsdotcom
Instagram - @muldowneymemorials & @jennifermuldowney
Twitter - @TheGlamReaper
Email us here: glamreaperpodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction to The Glam Reaper Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Hi and welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
I'm your host, Jennifer Muldowney, and today's episode, we learn all about the history of cremation.
00:00:15
Speaker
You might not have known you wanted to know about it, but you definitely want to know about it.
00:00:19
Speaker
Take it away.
Guest Introduction: Jason and His Background
00:00:33
Speaker
Okay, so welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast where we talk about life, love and loss with a massive input from the funeral industry because that is the world that I live in.
00:00:44
Speaker
All right, Jason, welcome to the Glam Reaper.
00:00:47
Speaker
Thank you.
00:00:47
Speaker
Thanks so much.
00:00:48
Speaker
So glad to be here and it's amazing how we can
00:00:52
Speaker
get together and so distant you're all the way up in new york and i'm all the way down in austin texas and i love austin texas and the reason why and i know larry is listening to this is because larry who was also a guest on the glamourie for connected us and i met him in austin in texas for the first time at the nfd really yes oh in 2013 i think that was yeah and it's a friendship that's blossomed ever since
00:01:21
Speaker
Nice.
00:01:22
Speaker
I always have a place in my heart for Austin.
00:01:24
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:01:26
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:01:26
Speaker
Well, very good.
00:01:28
Speaker
So Jason, tell us a little bit about what you do and then let's get into it.
00:01:31
Speaker
I have questions and I guess the main one I'd want to start off with other than what you do is cremation then and now.
00:01:39
Speaker
I mean, it's over a hundred years old.
00:01:41
Speaker
I think it's coming up on 150 years old or something.
00:01:43
Speaker
Yeah, 140.
00:01:43
Speaker
Crazy.
00:01:43
Speaker
So
00:01:47
Speaker
I mean, that kind of blows my mind because it almost feels quite modern.
00:01:51
Speaker
And I guess that's coming from little old Ireland probably because we only accepted it, what, like 30, 40 years ago when the church decided it was okay?
00:01:58
Speaker
I think so.
00:01:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think so.
00:02:00
Speaker
We'll get into the controversy of that just yet.
00:02:02
Speaker
But yeah, tell us a little bit about you, what you do right now, and then yeah, let's get into it.
00:02:08
Speaker
Sure, absolutely.
00:02:09
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:02:10
Speaker
So I am the historian for the Cremation Association of North America.
00:02:15
Speaker
And I am also the cremation historian for the National Museum of Funeral History in Houston.
00:02:21
Speaker
So if you've not been to the Funeral History Museum there in Houston, that's definitely somewhere you're going to want to put on your list.
00:02:27
Speaker
It's fantastic.
00:02:28
Speaker
There at the museum, about 80% of the History of Cremation exhibit is my personal collection and information that I've added.
00:02:38
Speaker
And we created that exhibit.
00:02:40
Speaker
It came to completion in 2018.
00:02:43
Speaker
It was a three-year planning going through.
00:02:46
Speaker
So I was very proud of it.
00:02:47
Speaker
And if you were to see it, you would understand why.
00:02:50
Speaker
So in the rest of my world, I am a licensed funeral director.
00:02:55
Speaker
I've been a practicing funeral director for many years, have spent my whole life since the time I was a teenager.
00:03:02
Speaker
Well, preteen, 12 years old, I started hanging out and spending time in local funeral homes and wanting to learn all about the business.
00:03:10
Speaker
So
00:03:10
Speaker
That's been my life.
00:03:11
Speaker
It's been an interesting experience being such a cremationist in a world of traditional funerals.
00:03:17
Speaker
And of course, that's changed a lot in the last couple of decades, but especially in the South.
00:03:23
Speaker
So I am a licensed funeral director.
00:03:25
Speaker
I am also, I'm now, my current position is I'm the director of customer experience for a company called UPD Earns.
00:03:32
Speaker
We are a, one of the country's largest cremation products provider.
00:03:37
Speaker
providers for funeral homes and cremation providers across the country.
00:03:41
Speaker
That's my real world that pays all the bills.
00:03:49
Speaker
I'm such a lucky guy that it all
00:03:51
Speaker
just blends and melds together and creates this unique world that I wake up in each day.
00:03:59
Speaker
Yeah, and you know, it's fascinating, Jason, because I've always thought that I was destined for what
Jennifer and Jason's Unique Interests in Funeral History
00:04:05
Speaker
I do.
00:04:05
Speaker
And I know, of course, people love and, you know, mock the glam Reaper title that was given to me by the newspaper.
00:04:12
Speaker
I've always felt like I was kind of born into this.
00:04:15
Speaker
Because similar to you, well, I didn't start as early as 12 years of age.
00:04:19
Speaker
Well, I kind of did actually, because I used to practice my calligraphy for art class in school.
00:04:25
Speaker
And I actually used to write an epitaph.
00:04:27
Speaker
Oh, nice.
00:04:28
Speaker
Oh, Lord.
00:04:29
Speaker
I still remember to this day.
00:04:31
Speaker
And then when I was 15, and most Irish, you know, teenagers have to do, you had to get out and get a job.
00:04:37
Speaker
And so where did we go?
00:04:38
Speaker
To the local bar.
00:04:39
Speaker
So I actually worked in a bar called The Morgue.
00:04:42
Speaker
Oh, nice.
00:04:43
Speaker
All right.
00:04:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:45
Speaker
So I feel like I was destined.
00:04:46
Speaker
So tell us, how did you become so fascinated with the history of cremation specifically?
00:04:52
Speaker
My actual interest in cremation came about the same time that I was getting involved in funeral service.
00:04:59
Speaker
And it actually came from a very unlikely place.
00:05:02
Speaker
And that place is the world of professional wrestling.
00:05:06
Speaker
And I was a huge wrestling fan when I was a kid.
00:05:10
Speaker
But especially I was a fan of a professional wrestler called The Undertaker.
00:05:15
Speaker
And his manager was Paul Bearer, was his stage name.
00:05:20
Speaker
And I absolutely wanted to be Paul Bearer.
00:05:24
Speaker
That was my dream and my goal to be Paul Bearer.
00:05:27
Speaker
So Paul Bearer carried an urn around with him trying to find that urn because it was a real urn.
00:05:33
Speaker
I just knew it was because it looked like a real urn.
00:05:36
Speaker
But I looked everywhere trying to find that urn.
00:05:39
Speaker
And in that process, I got to learn about cremation, about all of those things.
00:05:45
Speaker
Not just that, you know, that was the kind of the final screw in the urn for sure.
The First Cremation and Its Historical Impact
00:05:50
Speaker
But the thing that really did it too was as a young man, my great grandfather was cremated and his remains were placed in a ceramic urn.
00:05:59
Speaker
And that always just fascinated me that my grandfather used to actually tell the joke, it was his father who passed away.
00:06:06
Speaker
He used to tell the joke, he's a pilot and he has a four seater Cessna, but he was that day that he carried his
00:06:13
Speaker
father to his rest in a city here in Texas, he had five passengers in the plane.
00:06:19
Speaker
The FAA would have flipped out if they knew he had five passengers in his plane.
00:06:24
Speaker
Aviation humor, I guess.
00:06:25
Speaker
I don't know.
00:06:28
Speaker
Yes, it is definitely a dad joke for sure.
00:06:31
Speaker
In that case, a granddad joke.
00:06:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:06:34
Speaker
Well, he's a dad to somebody.
00:06:35
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:06:36
Speaker
Exactly, exactly.
00:06:37
Speaker
You don't lose it just because you go on a ferry.
00:06:39
Speaker
Exactly, exactly.
00:06:40
Speaker
One step up.
00:06:41
Speaker
Great Grandfathers was created, so that's a long time ago.
00:06:44
Speaker
Well, I'm not that old, honey, now.
00:06:46
Speaker
Slow down, slow down.
00:06:47
Speaker
Bump the brakes.
00:06:47
Speaker
So that was in 1988.
00:06:49
Speaker
That was, you know, the 80s.
00:06:51
Speaker
Oh, that's a long time ago.
00:06:59
Speaker
yeah it wasn't wasn't wasn't that long ago i mean it was a little time but it wasn't yeah my grandparents died around then so that's why i immediately was like oh it's definitely good so tell me how what's okay well my i mean i obviously have lots of questions my biggest thing is 19 what is it 18 sorry 1876 was the first 1876 the first cremation what did that look like the discussion started in the the biggest driving factor that
00:07:29
Speaker
that started the discussion of cremation, you know, it can really be traced to a couple of years earlier in 1873 and then into 1874.
00:07:39
Speaker
And it was basically the discussion was purification and they, medicine was not a thing.
00:07:45
Speaker
Embalming was not a thing.
00:07:47
Speaker
It was all of these things that were starting to become discussed, but people were dying and people were being buried and the people being buried, their bodies were decomposing.
00:07:59
Speaker
And as the bodies were decomposing, it was polluting water systems and was creating illness in a lot of larger cities.
00:08:08
Speaker
So these larger cities and doctors in general, a lot of the medical profession is what truly started the cremation movement.
00:08:15
Speaker
In fact, very few cemeteries or funeral directors in the early years of cremation actually had crematories or were part of that practice.
00:08:24
Speaker
That was a huge part of it was the driving factor of burial reform.
00:08:28
Speaker
and namely purification, trying to purify the body so that it wouldn't pollute the earth and air and water.
00:08:35
Speaker
Let's see, what was it?
00:08:37
Speaker
Why hide reasons or affections' eyes?
00:08:40
Speaker
The grave pollutes, the furnace purifies.
00:08:43
Speaker
And that's basically, you could sum up the entire cremation movement from the first 30 years in that sentence.
00:08:52
Speaker
That was the discussion.
00:08:54
Speaker
Of course, it moved later into more of a business enterprise in a lot of ways.
00:09:00
Speaker
But as far as what did it look like, it looked like it was the very first of its kind.
00:09:07
Speaker
It was designed by an engineer.
00:09:08
Speaker
It was a small building, about 16 by 60 was about the size of the building.
00:09:15
Speaker
Very, very large room where they would gather for a service.
00:09:19
Speaker
That was the largest part of the building.
00:09:21
Speaker
And then a very small room that had the cremator.
00:09:25
Speaker
built as part of the structure.
00:09:26
Speaker
It wasn't like a machine like we think of now as a cremator that, you know, was placed inside the building.
00:09:32
Speaker
It was built as part of the structure, built of brick.
00:09:36
Speaker
And it was heated by a form of coal called coke.
00:09:40
Speaker
And it was the coke and wood had to heat up so much they got the cremation furnace on the inside to a little over 2,000 degrees.
00:09:49
Speaker
So
00:09:52
Speaker
It's more than what, again, what cremations take place with now.
00:09:56
Speaker
So yeah, it was a whole, it was an entire ordeal.
00:09:59
Speaker
It was covered in almost every major newspaper in the country.
00:10:04
Speaker
It was this gentleman who passed away in New York and his caretaker was the founder of
Public Perception and Technological Advances in Cremation
00:10:11
Speaker
the Theosophical Society.
00:10:12
Speaker
I don't know if you've ever heard of that, which is a religion and science-based group.
00:10:18
Speaker
Basically, it's called the Theosophists.
00:10:21
Speaker
It was founded in the 1870s by Helena Blavatsky, which was a mystic of the time.
00:10:27
Speaker
Anyway, she and Henry Steele Olcott founded this society, and one of the members wanted to be cremated.
00:10:34
Speaker
They all preached cremation.
00:10:36
Speaker
That was part of one of their religious ideals.
00:10:41
Speaker
So that being the case, they hired basically with the Lemoyne Crematory, this first crematory,
00:10:48
Speaker
He built the crematory for his own use.
00:10:50
Speaker
It wasn't built as a public service or anything like that.
00:10:54
Speaker
He wanted to be cremated.
00:10:55
Speaker
There wasn't a crematory, so Dr. Lemoyne built the crematory himself.
00:11:00
Speaker
Henry Steele Olcott reached out to Dr. Lemoyne and said, hey, we want to do this cremation.
00:11:05
Speaker
Can you help it?
00:11:06
Speaker
So it was an entire process.
00:11:08
Speaker
There's so much culturally that can be discussed during that entire first year that the first cremation took place.
00:11:17
Speaker
The Baron died in May and the cremation didn't take place until December.
00:11:20
Speaker
And so there was discussion all throughout that time, scandal and stories and sensational headlines and all of those things from the very odd theosophist funeral that took place in New York in May to the agreement of the actual cremation taking place to the transportation and the cremation service itself.
00:11:43
Speaker
So there was this huge, you know,
00:11:45
Speaker
time that this actually took to plan everything and to get everything set up and organized and ready.
00:11:52
Speaker
So that's an entire podcast on itself, that story is.
00:11:55
Speaker
It's fascinating.
00:11:56
Speaker
And I'm just curious, because honestly, when I kind of said the start of cremation, I almost imagined what still happens today, which was that people just decided instead of throw people in the ground, they threw them on a bonfire.
00:12:10
Speaker
And that does still happen today culturally.
00:12:15
Speaker
as we know, but it honestly, it's kind of so interesting to me that, because it's like every business idea starts with a want that one person has and either goes to create it themselves for themselves or thinks to themselves, other people will want this if I want it.
00:12:34
Speaker
And so, you know, this guy decided, obviously he's loads of money to turn one of the room for a particular house into a crematorium just for himself.
00:12:44
Speaker
Well, he built it on, so he actually offered to build it on the cemetery grounds for the cemetery, and the cemetery could be the trustees of it.
00:12:51
Speaker
And they said, no way.
00:12:53
Speaker
Again, there's not a precedent.
00:12:56
Speaker
There's not anything before this.
00:12:57
Speaker
Before it, which is interesting in and of itself.
00:13:00
Speaker
And as I started the conversation saying, you know, Ireland, the reason why cremation is only taking off in the last couple of decades is because it was the church and, you know,
00:13:10
Speaker
Catholic Church pretty much rules Ireland with an iron fist.
00:13:14
Speaker
And, you know, so I can imagine that the cemeteries were like, no, but then all of a sudden when they can make a quick book from it, of course, they're... Right.
00:13:23
Speaker
Welcome.
00:13:23
Speaker
Welcome also.
00:13:25
Speaker
Maybe I will do this.
00:13:26
Speaker
Exactly.
00:13:27
Speaker
Exactly.
00:13:28
Speaker
You know what?
00:13:28
Speaker
We need some more Gilded Chairs, guys.
00:13:30
Speaker
Let's do relations.
00:13:32
Speaker
I'm obviously teasing.
00:13:34
Speaker
Anybody out there that's legit, I'm obviously teasing.
00:13:39
Speaker
Right, right.
00:13:41
Speaker
Maybe a little bit.
00:13:42
Speaker
Yeah, behind my back.
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah, this is a podcast, so they can't see what I'm doing.
00:13:49
Speaker
But anyway.
00:13:50
Speaker
God, that's really interesting.
00:13:51
Speaker
I never actually, I never, honestly, I never really thought more enough about it because to me, a lot of the, and I don't know your thoughts on this, but to me, a lot of the industry is antiquated as it is.
00:14:03
Speaker
And so, you know, the fascinating thing that my next question is, is
00:14:09
Speaker
How a hundred, we're coming on 145 years, I guess this year, which is just madness.
00:14:15
Speaker
How has it evolved in that time?
00:14:17
Speaker
Like what's the difference to that oven, brick oven he basically had built?
00:14:23
Speaker
What's the difference then?
00:14:25
Speaker
They were using Coke.
00:14:26
Speaker
Not cocaine, people.
00:14:28
Speaker
It's a form of coal.
00:14:30
Speaker
As an Irish person who says, have the crack the whole time.
00:14:35
Speaker
Not that crack.
00:14:36
Speaker
So obviously it's gas lines now.
00:14:38
Speaker
Is it gas?
00:14:39
Speaker
I actually don't know.
00:14:40
Speaker
Yeah, so that's truly one of the most interesting things is that the process of cremation itself has not changed a lot in that time.
00:14:50
Speaker
You know, the technology that goes into it and the
00:14:53
Speaker
you know, making it more energy efficient and environmentally friendly and, you know, making, making things like that a little more.
00:15:02
Speaker
And of course, there's your guy on process.
00:15:04
Speaker
That man is the encyclopedia of running a cremator from start to finish.
00:15:09
Speaker
But as far as that process itself, that hasn't changed considerably.
00:15:13
Speaker
You know, the start is the same, the, the heat, the end is the same, the, the cremated remains.
00:15:19
Speaker
And the technology itself is the only thing that's changed with that.
00:15:24
Speaker
But, you know, even some of the timing, that hasn't changed considerably.
00:15:29
Speaker
So it's, you know, it's interesting to see.
00:15:31
Speaker
But what has changed is, number one, the business aspect of it, the way that people look at cremation as a business.
00:15:39
Speaker
And number two, the cultural aspect of it, the reason that people have started choosing cremation.
00:15:44
Speaker
So it went, as far as culturally, it went from being a
00:15:48
Speaker
you know, something that people chose because of sanitation necessity.
00:15:52
Speaker
And it transformed into, you know, after embalming became more popular with, you know, with that advent, with the advent of medicine into everyday life, with the advent of, you know, germ theory and being able to truly understand what causes sickness.
00:16:09
Speaker
Also think about, you know, burial vaults and all of these things that help to encapsulate and encase the remains of,
00:16:17
Speaker
so that there's not this threat of decomposition causing environmental issues.
00:16:24
Speaker
So they started to look for other reasons to qualify the need for cremation.
00:16:30
Speaker
And that truly transformed into an era that where cremation memorials, the idea of a cremation memorial is what truly got people to look toward cremation.
00:16:43
Speaker
And that was the timeframe in cremation's history
00:16:47
Speaker
that lasted and built cremation.
00:16:50
Speaker
That's the time that built it and actually set the foundation for it and got the movement started, especially on the West Coast and then the Northeastern part of the country as well.
00:16:59
Speaker
Right.
00:16:59
Speaker
And what percentage is it in the U.S.?
00:17:02
Speaker
Are we asked 60% yet?
00:17:03
Speaker
Currently?
00:17:05
Speaker
Oh, not quite.
00:17:05
Speaker
No, not quite.
00:17:06
Speaker
I think it was 56 last year.
00:17:10
Speaker
I should have had that handy.
00:17:12
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:17:13
Speaker
No, no, you're totally fine.
00:17:15
Speaker
Last year, actually, and there's a couple of things I want to touch on in that you mentioned there because they're quite
Cremation Trends Influenced by COVID-19
00:17:20
Speaker
hot topics.
00:17:20
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, we have to come back to that.
00:17:23
Speaker
Just while we're on it last year, obviously COVID, I know from my experience, a lot of people, in fact, the majority of people, and I'd say across the country, across the world,
00:17:34
Speaker
Couldn't have funerals, as we all know.
00:17:36
Speaker
And so they were choosing direct cremation as opposed to burial, because I think burial is almost associated now more with tradition and with church and with a funeral.
00:17:48
Speaker
And I have, you know, and obviously...
00:17:50
Speaker
I know I do memorials and I have a cremation jewelry line, so I'm a bit biased on certain things.
00:17:55
Speaker
But I do think that, I personally think that the trend is going to keep going towards cremation.
00:18:03
Speaker
Well, I have to tell you some interesting facts here that you probably don't know.
00:18:08
Speaker
And I'm pulling up some, pulling up the information so that I have it handy here.
00:18:12
Speaker
I love the, I love computers.
00:18:15
Speaker
Just makes us...
00:18:16
Speaker
It makes us so much more.
00:18:17
Speaker
I thought you were going to say, I love the World Wide Web.
00:18:19
Speaker
And I was like, oh, that sounds so old-fashioned.
00:18:22
Speaker
Because that's part of the way I thought you were going to say that.
00:18:24
Speaker
The inner webs.
00:18:26
Speaker
The inner webs.
00:18:27
Speaker
I love it.
00:18:27
Speaker
As my dad says, he's like, hold on, it's gone into the cloud.
00:18:30
Speaker
Let me go out and grab this.
00:18:32
Speaker
Let me grab this from the cloud.
00:18:35
Speaker
Here's the interesting thing.
00:18:36
Speaker
And this is every year the Cremation Association of North America puts out the statistics of the previous year and what that looks like.
00:18:43
Speaker
Here's something that's going to blow your mind, okay?
00:18:45
Speaker
The rate of cremation in 2019 was 54.6%, okay?
00:18:48
Speaker
The typical increase each year is about 1.8% to about 2.5% increase.
00:18:51
Speaker
Depending on the year, it's changed a little bit.
00:18:55
Speaker
2020, the cremation rate was 56.1%.
00:19:10
Speaker
So no different other than the incremental increase.
00:19:13
Speaker
Interesting.
00:19:14
Speaker
The difference comes in the fact that in 2019, there were 2.8 million deaths in the U.S. And then in 2020, there were 3.3 million.
00:19:20
Speaker
So 500,000 more deaths above the standard usual increase.
00:19:23
Speaker
Actually, probably about
00:19:36
Speaker
400,000 above the standard increase.
00:19:38
Speaker
But it still stuck to its trend, trending.
00:19:43
Speaker
Still stuck to its trend.
00:19:45
Speaker
The rate of cremation did not increase, even though it seemed like there was a lot more people choosing cremation.
00:19:54
Speaker
There were, but not in relation to the... Exactly.
00:19:59
Speaker
Exactly.
00:20:00
Speaker
So...
00:20:01
Speaker
It was a larger number, but not a larger percentage.
00:20:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting.
00:20:06
Speaker
Going back to, I guess, in some ways, what it originally started with, which was the purification, you know, that idea of purification, because that was, to me, what I assumed was that trend of direct creation, that it was just seen as...
Environmental Impact and Regulations of Cremation
00:20:21
Speaker
Easier, quicker, smoother, person passes away, don't contaminate anybody else with COVID, you know, swiftly move along.
00:20:29
Speaker
And obviously we couldn't have funerals.
00:20:31
Speaker
So, you know, that took that away from a lot of people.
00:20:34
Speaker
In terms of the other aspects of cremation, because we've talked about burial and burial.
00:20:40
Speaker
And I even know this from, from even a glass cemetery back home in Ireland, you know, and the plague and, you know, all the typhoid and, you know, those mass graves, it was lethal, the poison that was, you know, it was killing people around them.
00:20:54
Speaker
And I think even actually here in New York, Heart Island, isn't there a, you know, isn't there a million bodies buried there or something?
00:21:03
Speaker
I think, I think that's, it's something like that.
00:21:05
Speaker
And it's,
00:21:06
Speaker
But there were, you know, there were a number of those quarantine islands, you know, off in the coast of New York there in the harbor.
00:21:13
Speaker
It was, you know, the first, one of the first crematories in the country was actually built on Swinburne Island, which was the quarantine island.
00:21:22
Speaker
And there were a lot of people that were cremated there that were basically, they had come in on ships that were, and they had some sort of illness, typhoid and cholera and that sort of thing.
00:21:32
Speaker
That's the Irish bringing it in.
00:21:34
Speaker
Joke.
00:21:35
Speaker
Thanks a lot.
00:21:35
Speaker
We just broke in.
00:21:36
Speaker
Thanks a lot.
00:21:37
Speaker
Well, we broke, guys.
00:21:41
Speaker
No bad.
00:21:42
Speaker
But something to consider, though, along the line of that discussion, the difference in then and now with regard to cremation early on, the only thing that cremation changed was they went to a crematory instead of going to a cemetery.
00:21:58
Speaker
There was still a funeral.
00:22:00
Speaker
There was still a service, typically at the home of the deceased.
00:22:04
Speaker
And then instead of going to the cemetery, they went to the crematory.
00:22:08
Speaker
Now, mind you, this is, you know, we're talking a very small number.
00:22:12
Speaker
I remember reading a newspaper article because I sit around and read newspapers from 1910 because that's who I am as a person.
00:22:21
Speaker
So I'm reading this article and it's the headline is, you know, it's got this really fascinating graphic on it too.
00:22:28
Speaker
That's the Chicago Tribune.
00:22:30
Speaker
And it says, is man's last earthly right to be the purifying flame?
00:22:35
Speaker
More than 50,000 people have chosen this method of cremation or this method of disposition.
00:22:43
Speaker
50,000.
00:22:43
Speaker
So that's from 1876 to 1910.
00:22:47
Speaker
A total of 50,000 people.
00:22:51
Speaker
That's an impressive headline.
00:22:52
Speaker
I like that headline.
00:22:53
Speaker
Oh, it's fantastic.
00:22:54
Speaker
Fantastic.
00:22:55
Speaker
And you should see the graphic that's with it.
00:22:57
Speaker
You know, it's got the torch and the urn.
00:22:59
Speaker
I think that's got to be your promo for this podcast for George.
00:23:03
Speaker
All right.
00:23:04
Speaker
I will.
00:23:05
Speaker
I will.
00:23:05
Speaker
Yeah, I love that.
00:23:06
Speaker
That is amazing.
00:23:08
Speaker
You know, that's interesting to see that, you know, that that's the case, that it's a few people.
00:23:15
Speaker
Think about, you know, just last year in our discussion that we were just talking about, how many people have been, you know, have chosen cremation,
00:23:23
Speaker
It's in the millions, you know, it's one, I think 1.6 million, something like that, that again, I closed my.
00:23:31
Speaker
close my graphic.
00:23:32
Speaker
But that's for a year.
00:23:36
Speaker
So, okay, actually on that figure, it kind of brings me back.
00:23:39
Speaker
Actually, I like this.
00:23:40
Speaker
You're looping back on the own red spots that I was like, we've got to talk about that, is the controversy around the toxins that crematoriums put out.
00:23:51
Speaker
Like nobody wants councils back home in Ireland and in the UK, you know, will fight against
00:23:57
Speaker
crematorium getting built in the middle of a field or you know new york won't allow one in within its city walls in london they talk about your breathing in the dead like talk to me about you know what is the amount of co2 that it's expelled what is the dangers and i know we have the abatements and stuff but nearly if you can talk to me touch on pre pre the the new you know the environmental the epa the agency i know has i can't i can't tell you because it wasn't it wasn't measured
00:24:28
Speaker
There wasn't discussion.
00:24:30
Speaker
That didn't become a discussion until the 70s when the environment started becoming.
00:24:36
Speaker
But not just that, but you have to realize that such a smaller number of, you know, the cremation rate didn't exceed 10% until the 1970s.
00:24:45
Speaker
So, you know, we're talking again about it's not a massive number.
00:24:49
Speaker
That number wasn't discussed, you know, in the days past.
00:24:54
Speaker
That impact on the environment
00:24:56
Speaker
was not discussed.
00:24:58
Speaker
It wasn't even a discussion because again, number one, so few people were choosing cremation and number two, that it wasn't a hot topic.
00:25:10
Speaker
It wasn't a talking point for anything.
00:25:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:15
Speaker
It's kind of like how, I don't want to make it so blasé, but it's kind of like how mental illness and obesity are such trendy topics now where I know growing up,
00:25:26
Speaker
in the 80s you know were we you know did we go for McDonald's yes there is McDonald's in Ireland by the way for anybody who's you know we did we did have that but that was like our treat and we did have a treats cupboard and stuff but we ran around and we did things whereas now obesity is such a hot topic especially in children and
00:25:46
Speaker
especially over here, it's huge.
00:25:48
Speaker
And then mental illness is an absolutely massive topic.
00:25:50
Speaker
But again, we didn't know about it.
00:25:53
Speaker
And so who's to say what happened before, were things measured?
00:25:58
Speaker
We can only go by what was recorded in history, I guess.
00:26:02
Speaker
And that's the thing that is difficult too.
00:26:07
Speaker
These are all topics that are very, very culturally significant for us now when we look at history.
00:26:15
Speaker
it was a very different experience, you know, the, the, the world, but you also, you know, you think about all these things and this is, you know, this is the tangent that I warned you about earlier.
00:26:25
Speaker
The world is a different place.
00:26:26
Speaker
You know, we're not, we're not the same people that we were then.
Cultural Shifts and Current Technologies in Cremation
00:26:30
Speaker
We may be the same human beings, but we're not the same society that we were in, in, in, in many, many ways.
00:26:38
Speaker
Thank goodness, you know, what a mess the world was in a lot of places.
00:26:43
Speaker
but ignorantly did not know any better.
00:26:46
Speaker
So, and especially here in the US in a lot of ways.
00:26:49
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:26:51
Speaker
Cremation today, in your opinion, and I did talk to Larry about this as well, we do have the abatement.
00:27:00
Speaker
There is restrictions to a certain extent on crematoriums.
00:27:04
Speaker
Do you think it's enough?
00:27:06
Speaker
Do you think we should be doing more?
00:27:08
Speaker
Should the funeral industry be more responsible for the environment?
00:27:11
Speaker
It is such a hot topic now.
00:27:13
Speaker
It's like asking McDonald's to be responsible for obesity, but it is the funeral industry.
00:27:20
Speaker
It's such a sensitive topic and industry that sometimes I do wonder, are we getting away with murder?
00:27:28
Speaker
Forgive the phrase, but when it comes to pollution and things like that, like burial is...
00:27:36
Speaker
you know, going to keep going lower and lower, I think, as we you've just said, cremation is incrementally creeping and getting closer to that 100%.
00:27:44
Speaker
Whether it'll ever get there, I don't know.
00:27:46
Speaker
But, you know, in your opinion, I don't think it'll get there.
00:27:49
Speaker
But yeah, so so I will tell you opinions.
00:27:53
Speaker
This doesn't reflect my the cremation association stance, necessarily.
00:27:58
Speaker
I mean, it may be may be very similar in a lot of ways.
00:28:00
Speaker
But
00:28:01
Speaker
You know, we can always be better.
00:28:02
Speaker
We can always do better.
00:28:03
Speaker
We can always make better choices with regard to our industry and do what our part is to help to make the world a better place.
00:28:13
Speaker
I will personally say that I think that there are other parts of society that could do a whole lot more.
00:28:21
Speaker
And the impact of their little bit that they could do would be an entire change of the funeral industry, you know?
00:28:29
Speaker
I don't have numbers on things, but I don't.
00:28:33
Speaker
I think that if we were to change so much of the things that need to be changed, that's going to be, here's the truth, okay?
00:28:42
Speaker
The hardest things that people find to change have to do with the things that make them feel like they're comfortable.
00:28:52
Speaker
And the things that we do at death, though they're changing a lot, they want to be comfortable.
00:28:59
Speaker
It may be in the back of their mind, consumers' minds, that we need to be environmentally friendly and we want to think about the feelings of others.
00:29:08
Speaker
But at the end of the day, what makes them feel comforted is what's going to be the paramount.
00:29:15
Speaker
And the truth of it is that that doesn't change.
00:29:19
Speaker
And if you think about how slowly the cremation rate alone has changed,
00:29:26
Speaker
You know, this is something that's 145 years old, yet here we are and, you know, we just hit 50%.
00:29:35
Speaker
Just half of the people who die in the U.S. are cremated.
00:29:38
Speaker
I mean, if you think about that, that is such a slow tradition.
00:29:42
Speaker
Death is such a slow tradition to change.
00:29:45
Speaker
And therefore, funeral directors are the slowest people.
00:29:49
Speaker
The funeral profession in general are the slowest people to make changes to.
00:29:54
Speaker
It's simply because we as funeral professionals experience on a day-to-day basis the fact that people return to tradition.
00:30:02
Speaker
People return to the things that they feel are traditional things that need to be done at a time of death.
00:30:09
Speaker
And there are so many people who are changing that the way that they think and consumers are changing the way that they think.
00:30:15
Speaker
And that's fantastic.
00:30:18
Speaker
But at the same time, you know, we need to realize that this is a slow process.
00:30:23
Speaker
That being the case, I feel like there are so many things in other parts of the world and the other parts of the country that could make much bigger impacts with much smaller changes than the funeral profession.
00:30:38
Speaker
Right.
00:30:39
Speaker
And, you know, you pointed out that it hasn't...
00:30:43
Speaker
changed a lot in 145 years, but it has changed somewhat.
00:30:47
Speaker
I mean, from your first description of that brick and mortar crematorium, it's no longer brick and mortar.
00:30:56
Speaker
It's no longer that.
00:30:57
Speaker
It's more of a unit.
00:30:59
Speaker
It's like typically a machine now, right?
00:31:02
Speaker
Is there any brick and mortar still going?
00:31:05
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:31:06
Speaker
The entire inside is brick and mortar.
00:31:09
Speaker
Right.
00:31:09
Speaker
And that's the
00:31:11
Speaker
That's the thing is that part hasn't changed.
00:31:16
Speaker
If you were to look at the inside of a cremation chamber now and look at the inside of the first cremation chamber in the country, it hasn't changed.
00:31:24
Speaker
Size has changed as always.
00:31:27
Speaker
And the technology around it has changed.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:30
Speaker
And it's still, well, it's not coal, as we said.
00:31:33
Speaker
It's gas now.
00:31:33
Speaker
But there is electrical, right?
00:31:35
Speaker
So there is machines now, no?
00:31:38
Speaker
Yeah, they are machines.
00:31:40
Speaker
And the electronic part isn't, you know, that doesn't have to do, that runs the machine.
Conclusion and Audience Engagement
00:31:50
Speaker
I bet you didn't know any of that about cremation.
00:31:53
Speaker
I personally found this conversation really fascinating, but that was only part one.
00:31:57
Speaker
We've got part two coming up next week, so stay tuned.
00:32:00
Speaker
And as always, any comments, feedback, or questions, send them to glamouryperpodcast at gmail.com.
00:32:06
Speaker
We'll see you next week.