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186 - Planet of the Apes (2001)
74 Plays1 year ago
“Oh, it’s over already? I was just about to make my move!”
There’s a new Planet of the Apes film in theaters so we can finally discuss a film that Stephen has been anxiously anticipating since the podcast began! We talk our personal histories with the Apes franchise, discuss the decade-long development hell of this film and the versions that could have been, Mark Wahlberg’s best performances, and Tim Burton’s love life on this one! You won’t want to miss it!
This movie might be a madhouse (A MADHOUSE!!), but social media doubly so! Check out our social media presences in the following places:
- @Disenfranchpod on Bluesky, Facebook, Instagram, Letterboxd, and YouTube.
- Email us your thoughts or requests to disenfranchpod@gmail.com
- Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!
- Find Stephen at @ChewyWalrus on Bluesky, Instagram, and Letterboxd.
- Check out Stephen’s first novel on Amazon, now available in paperback or ebook: https://amzn.to/44idk8y
- Find Brett at @sus_warlock on Letterboxd.
- Find Tucker at @icenine09 on YouTube and Instagram and @tuck_mugs on Instagram.
- Join our Patreon for exclusive bonus content, including bi-weekly episodes of What Are We Watching? at https://patreon.com/Disenfranchpod
- Watch our big screen debut in Circle City Supernatural from our buddy J.P. Leck! You can either buy it on BluRay through his website, buy/rent it through Amazon Prime, or watch it free with ads on Tubi!
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Missing Co-host
00:00:20
Speaker
I'll sing one for you
00:00:22
Speaker
Oh my God, I was wrong. It was the disenfranchised podcast all along. Yes, you finally made a monkey out of us, the disenfranchised podcast, where that podcast all about those franchises have won those films that fancy themselves full fledged franchises before falling flat on their face after the first film. Almost forgot my motherfucking intro there. I am your host, Stephen Foxworthy, and joining me, as always, the damnedest, dirtiest human of them all, it's Tucker. Hey, Tucker.
00:00:52
Speaker
Hi Steven, how's it going? Not bad. How are you? Same Z's. Right on. Bear's mentioning at this point that our co-host Brett Wright has followed his pet chimpanzee Pericles into a chronostorm. We may spend the next decade or two looking for him, or he may have gone back in time. We're not sure. We don't know.
00:01:19
Speaker
But we would like to see him again. We sure hope we do.
Movie Release Dates and Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes
00:01:24
Speaker
But yeah, so yeah, we're talking this month about movies that parallel movies that are in theaters right now or coming up in theaters, I guess I should say. I kind of misjudged the release date on this one, kind of like I did with the
00:01:42
Speaker
Godzilla King of the Monsters episode or Godzilla versus Kong episode that we did a couple years ago whenever that movie came out. Anyway, I'm rambling at this point. Hey, wait, do we have to do a re-enfranchised for that? Or did you guys do the old one? Did we do the old one? We did the 90 we did the 97 Gorilla and or Godzilla.
00:02:04
Speaker
And we did the Peter Jackson King Kong. I thought you meant you did like the Godzilla Kong movie that came out. I was like, wait a minute, I feel like I would have been part of that and I don't remember that. No, we bungled the release date on those episodes. So they came out like two weeks like the episode, the episode dropped like two weeks before that movie did. And so we were like, well,
00:02:28
Speaker
Oops. Oops. Like we did this one because I thought the movie was coming out this upcoming weekend. It came out last week. And really, I think maybe the weekend before last, like it's been out. It was last weekend. Oops.
00:02:42
Speaker
Big damn hoops on my part. It's kind of a it's kind of the beginning of a new trilogy. From what I heard is a new a new story like you don't have characters from the original trilogy. It's like further in time. Yeah, it's carrying on. It's carrying on the circus one, but it's like years hence kind of a thing. Too bad we won't get any more Steve Zahn. He was my favorite part about.
00:03:05
Speaker
of that one that he was in. We'll get into it, but I haven't seen any of those yet. Yeah. So because because Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes has come out, we are finally getting to talk about a movie I've been wanting to talk about on this podcast since the very beginning, because I have a torrid history with this movie. Tucker, what are we talking about today?
00:03:28
Speaker
We're talking about Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes. From 2001, it's Planet of the Apes, directed by Tim Burton, written by William Broyles Jr., Lawrence Conner, and Mark Rosenthal, and starring Mark Markey, Mark Wahlberg,
00:03:48
Speaker
Tim Roth, Helena Bonham Carter, Michael Clark Duncan, The Late Great Dearly Departed. Speaking of The Late Great and Dearly Departed, Chris Christofferson in this movie as well, Estella Warren, Paul Giamatti, the great Carrie Hiroyuki Tagawa in this movie, David Warner, Eric Avari, Lisa Marie, Glenn Shaddix, Chris Ellis, Anne Ramsey, Michael Jase,
00:04:18
Speaker
God, what? Charlton fucking Heston, Linda Harrison, also in a blink and you miss it cameo in this thing. Like what a cast. What a picture. Even your boy, Rick Baker is in this. He is. He has a cameo as one of the monk boys. Yeah. Smoking on that hookah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, hey, monkeys. How's it going? How's your mother? How do you mother for me?
00:04:47
Speaker
That's all I can think of, this whole movie.
Mark Wahlberg's Career and Performance
00:04:49
Speaker
No, particularly that last inspiring speech that he gives. He's like, Hey, you know, we got this like the shared history, bro. Like, come on. Like, we're all people. And like, you're from my past. And you're from my future. And I'm from your past. And we can like, we could totally do this, bro. It's been done before. I've seen it happen, yo.
00:05:12
Speaker
That's pretty accurate. That's accurate. And, you know, it's surprising that that you when I said that I hated everybody in this movie and specifically Tim Roth, which feels like blasphemy. But have you seen this movie? And you were like, not Mark Wahlberg. No, Mark Wahlberg is perfectly fine in this. He just does this Mark Wahlberg thing like whatever. I mean, like he's not great in it. Like like, look, he has
00:05:38
Speaker
Mark Wahlberg Connect, which has been proven by a few movies, including our previous episode on The Departed, The Departed and Fear. Those two movies I will throw in for your consideration. The Fighter. Oh, I haven't seen that. So that I'll check that out for sure. I've wanted to see that. Like, I think I own it, actually. It's good, but I haven't watched it yet. Is good. But no, he's whatever. Like, he's.
00:06:06
Speaker
the least, like one of the least egregious things about this film because he's just, he's doing his Mark Warbrook thing, whatever. Then you have Tim Roth. What does he even do? What is that? Look, we will get into it. Oh my God. And I love Tim Roth so much. So much. I think he's fantastic.
00:06:30
Speaker
And here's what I will say for Mark Wahlberg in this movie. I don't think I have seen a more him in a more fundamentally miscast role since all night Shyamalan's that happening.
Tim Burton's Creative Trajectory
00:06:44
Speaker
What? He has no he has the eyes for the happening. That's I think what got him hired. He can do that. Yeah. Deer in the headlights look really, really well.
00:06:56
Speaker
got a dirty face, you know? And look, we're going to have plenty of opportunities to talk Mark Wahlberg on this podcast going forward because we still have four brothers. We still have Max Payne. Four Brothers is a good movie. Yeah, Max Payne, not so much. We've already talked about him in The Departed and The Italian Job, which again, I don't mind him in The Italian Job because that's he's just doing what he's doing. Oh, a fourth movie Mark Wahlberg acting very well in Boogie Nights.
00:07:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I always forget about that one because he's so good in it. Like, I don't even think it's him, I guess. Right. Yeah. No, it's the only I think it's the only role that I think he's good in, where he actually transforms into someone else because in fear, he's a psychotic ex-boyfriend. And yep, that tracks.
00:07:48
Speaker
And in The Departed, he's just a fucking asshole. Though an asshole with a heart of gold, I will say. He is a good guy at the end of the day, but why is he a fucking asshole? When it's all said and done, he's maybe the only one. He's the only good guy, yes. Imagine a movie where Mark Wahlberg's the only good guy. He's the redeemable character, yeah.
00:08:10
Speaker
And he's still a huge piece of shit. Yeah. Yeah, he is. So like we've talked to Wahlberg. We will have more opportunities to talk Wahlberg. But this is like probably dead center right in the middle of the Wahlberg. Oh, a mile twenty two. I can't believe I and Spencer confidential. No, we've got and Scoob. We've got so many fucking opportunities to talk to Mark Wahlberg. Oh, great. I can't wait. We can do a Mark Wahlberg fucking theme month if we really wanted to. Do we really want to, though? No.
00:08:38
Speaker
Okay. Oh, and you know what else, you know what else he's in? Uncharted. Probably one we're going to cover. Neither. Because he could, I think he could have been Nathan Drake. Is that the main character's name? Yeah. I think he could have played the Tom Holland part because having played those games, he's more age appropriate for that part.
00:08:59
Speaker
He's definitely not age appropriate for the role he ended up playing. But that's the thing with those with these franchise starters, man. You want to cast it young so you get someone who can grow into the role. That's why Holland was cast as Spider-Man in the first place, man. They wanted to. And that makes sense for Spider-Man. But in the games, Nathan Drake is always like I'm I think I'm getting that name wrong, but you know, I'm talking. No, I don't think you are. He is like no younger than 30 in any of those games.
00:09:26
Speaker
And his mentor is like in his sixties and that's the character Mark Wahlberg plays in the movie. And so like, I just never, I want to see it because I've seen some of the action set pieces and they look impressive and they're very obvious callbacks to action set pieces in the game, which are the strengths of those games, especially at the beginning of three, when you have to climb through those train cars that are also falling off a cliff at the same time.
00:09:53
Speaker
Yep, it's really intense and they do that in the movie and I want to see it for that but I just can't bring myself to do it because like
00:09:59
Speaker
I don't know. I'm up for different interpretations. But come on. My my ex was a big fan of those games. So I've watched all but the most recent one being played so much fun. And I mean, watch their very cinematic video games. But at the end of the day, you're watching them and you're just like or you're watching the movie and you're just like, well, it should I could be playing this instead like this could be more interactive. But.
00:10:24
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sure we will cover Uncharted at some point unless they do make a sequel, which apparently they're still talking about, but I don't think it's going to happen. I think Tom Holland's kind of burn out on some stuff, which I don't blame him for, to be honest. Oh, no. His star is burning bright. It is. Make sure it doesn't burn too bright, Tom Holland.
00:10:48
Speaker
We love you, Tom Holland. We don't want to see you crash and burn. Correct. And I mean, some of the some of the non Marvel stuff he's been doing has been not terribly well received. So. And it sucks because from what I've read, he's put a ton of effort into those and they just suck because of other reasons, you know. Right.
00:11:07
Speaker
I mean, I think the Russo's big follow up to the Avengers shit. Cherry. He was in that, which I did not hear very good things about. There's he's in a Robert Pattinson. He's in a movie with Robert Pattinson called. Oh, what's it called?
00:11:25
Speaker
I like the devil all the time. I do, too. Is that good? Should I watch that? Is it good? I haven't seen it. I don't know. I can't. I don't know. I can tell you he what he's not good at is chaos walking. See our previous episode on chaos walking. Did I watch that? I don't. You were not on the podcast at the time. I you know, sometimes in those days, though, I would watch the movie so that I would have context.
00:11:51
Speaker
But I don't remember that one. It's like the most forgettable movie ever. It's him and Daisy Ridley. No, I didn't see that, but I know what you're talking about.
00:12:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And maybe when that came out. It might as well not exist. Like that one came out in 2021. And I was just like looking for a 2021 movie to cover at the end of the year. And I was like, this movie may as well not even exist. Let's cover it. And that was kind of our our takeaway is this movie doesn't exist, even though we absolutely both just watched it. Brett, I think, liked it a lot more than I did.
00:12:25
Speaker
What a waste of a good two good leads to. And it's I mean, the rest of the cast is really solid, too. You've got Demiyan Bashir, who's one of one of my favorite. I love that guy. That guy is like a really underrated actor.
00:12:41
Speaker
David. What do I know him from? Demi and Bashir. He's in he's in The Hateful Eight. I'm pretty sure. Yes. He was Oscar nominated for a movie, A Better Life. He's in Machita Kills. He's in Godzilla versus Kong. He's also in The Nun movie. He's in The Nun, Alien Covenant. Like he's he's he's good in a lot of stuff. Link me to the IMDB. I need to see his face in the car.
00:13:11
Speaker
I got to see it because like these are things I've seen, but I don't know who this is. We're looking right now. Oh, that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:13:21
Speaker
I never knew his name. Yeah, I know. Yeah. He's in stuff. Yeah. He I love him. And another one of another one of those actors who's just in like everything. But like, you know, you don't know his name. Jose Zuniga. That guy fucking rules this guy. And he's he's another one of those that guy actors where you're just like, oh, that guy. Yeah, I know that guy.
00:13:44
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that guy, he's a lot of TV stuff, too. I see him as a lot, too. He does a lot of TV, but he's done some movies as well. Like he's he was in the dark tower. See our previous episode in the dark tower. Like, but no, I love I
Revisiting Planet of the Apes Franchise
00:13:58
Speaker
love those two. Like if they if they were to do a two hander together, I'd go see it.
00:14:02
Speaker
I'd watch it. Yeah, for sure. But no, listen, listen to the cast on this chaos walking movie. It's Tom Holland, Daisy Ridley. You're those really it's Demi on Bashir, David a yellow. Oh, Kurt Sutter, the guy who gave us Sons of Anarchy, Cynthia Rivo, Mads Mikkelsen.
00:14:18
Speaker
And for some reason, Nick Jonas is in this thing, too. Oh, that's like it's it's it's a weird, weird cast. But it's and it's kind of one of those things where like Nick Jonas like is barely in it because you're like, oh, he's going to be in the sequel. And there was no sequel.
00:14:35
Speaker
Oh, boo. But I mean, that's why we covered it. But yeah, Brett really liked the David, a yellow character, and I think ended up like creating a character for either one of his books or one of his D&D campaigns or both based on that concept. He really liked that word. That's cool. But yeah, that's not why we're here, though.
00:14:55
Speaker
No, I guess not. We're here to talk about Tim Burton's 2001 Planet of the Apes. And Tucker, I am curious, what has historically been your relationship with the Planet of the Apes franchise and your relationship with this movie specifically?
00:15:12
Speaker
OK, well, I've seen. So you have your original series of Planet of the Apes movies, so the original films, plus the animated series and the live action television series. And I've seen those things. I couldn't tell you which ones or I just I've watched ape movies and TV shows on cable when I was a child. I didn't really do much with it after childhood.
00:15:41
Speaker
Uh, this movie came out and I think I rented it maybe. And boy, does it suck. Um, the new ones, the new ones are pretty good. The, the, the, the original trilogy of the reboots or prequels, whatever they're wanting to call them. Uh, the more recent ones, that first trilogy was really cool because it starts with a very grounded sort of kind of a small movie.
00:16:08
Speaker
for the franchise. It's a very, very small movie, comparatively speaking. And then when the original original director dipped out for the sequels, they got that one dude that did those other movies. That was really good. And is that is that is that Matt Reeves? Yes, dude, the Batman guy. Yeah. And he took something that was already really, really rad and just elevated it. That's kind of his memo.
00:16:38
Speaker
that first one is really good and it feels complete and and I really enjoyed it but the the other two just they're they're the it's kind of the perfect sequels like if you want to study sequels that elevate the original and just get better and better those two are the ones you want to watch because they just take that simple concept and just run with it and go so many places that you would never expect them to based on the first film
00:17:08
Speaker
And it's a really good trilogy. You should watch them, Steven. I want to. I own them. I need to. I own them on 4K. Oh, yeah, because you got all them. They got the whole set, dude. And this is part of it. This movie is part of it. I got the nine movie collection. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I got basically every Planet of the Apes movie released up until last year. I have one massive collection and it's the cartoon on there.
00:17:31
Speaker
And the TV show. They don't have the they don't have the series. They only have the films. Although I am looking and you can buy the complete TV show on DVD on Amazon for twenty seven fifty four. And it looks like the animated series might be out of print. It's probably you can watch it on YouTube. I'm sure most cartoons you can watch on YouTube.
00:17:55
Speaker
Yeah, and it might watch the actual live action show on YouTube as well. If I was going to say it might be streaming somewhere as well, like somewhere officially. So I have very fond memories of the live action TV show. I couldn't tell you anything about it, but it was at like when I was watching it, I was having a good time in life as a child. Right on. But yeah, no, I I have always dug the planet of the apes, man. I love the apes.
00:18:25
Speaker
And I don't remember when I first engaged with Planet of the Apes. I think it was before this movie came out and I got really excited and wanted to get into Planet of the Apes. I think I remember my first job ever was at a hobby lobby.
00:18:40
Speaker
the one in Greenwood. And we would sell like model kits and stuff. And they had a bunch from like old TV shows and they had one from the Planet of the Apes TV show. And that was when I first learned there was a Planet of the Apes TV show. And I'm like, well, I want to watch that movie. And so I think my dad and I got it from the library and we watched it. The original? Yeah, the original 1968 Frank Schaffner movie. And we watched it.
00:19:08
Speaker
And I was like this is great I love this I I want to make this like my franchise and so I like tried to find the other I couldn't find the other movies couldn't find the show I couldn't find anything but when this movie came out my dad and I were there.
00:19:25
Speaker
opening weekend to see this movie. Oh, you poor, poor bastards. I so wanted it to be good that I convinced myself it was. And I was no stranger to this because I had done this just a couple of years earlier with The Phantom Menace.
00:19:43
Speaker
uh where i was just like this is star wars this is like it's got to be good i'm the problem right it's not the movie i'm the one who has an issue like it's an absolutely saw that movie in theaters at least twice um phantom menace um but i
00:20:01
Speaker
This this movie only saw the once but I you better believe I asked for it on DVD like I owned it Loved it and then eventually ended up getting rid of it at some point hadn't really given it much thought in years Other than to like throw it on this list
00:20:20
Speaker
But yeah, I got a chance to re-engage with it. And boy, do I have some thoughts. It's real bad. It's real, real bad. Baby Steven is an idiot. I think I can confidently say that. But I mean, there's there's still some stuff I like in here, like it's not unsalvageable, but it's all the money. Yeah, I agree. I would say things plural, I would say. Oh, interesting. Mm hmm.
00:20:49
Speaker
Mm hmm. So but no, I dug this movie so much. This is one of my first Paul Giamatti films, actually, I think. I think this is exciting. This is. Yeah. Look, I fucking hate this movie, but I absolutely love Paul Giamatti in it. Like if it were just a movie of him, I would sit through two hours of it and want more.
00:21:16
Speaker
But it's just everything else around Paul Giamatti is garbage. Yeah, I think it might be honestly, I think it might be one of his best performances just because of how shitty the movie he is, how shitty the movie is and how fantastic of a performance he puts in.
00:21:34
Speaker
And he always does well in comedies. And he's obviously, he's the comedic character in this movie, which is just me. This movie needed a little more comedy and a little more camp because it takes itself way too fucking seriously. Agreed.
00:21:48
Speaker
way too seriously. Tim, I'm looking at you. I have other problems with this movie beyond just how seriously it takes itself, but I do think it is one of the problems. Every problem with this movie that's not Paul Giamatti. It's a problem. When Paul Giamatti was doing his Oscar, doing the rounds, campaigning for his Oscar earlier this year, I saw an interview with him about this movie.
00:22:15
Speaker
And apparently like someone had called, someone from the movie had called him in casting, had called his agent and his agent was like, no, Paul's not gonna wanna do that.
Paul Giamatti's Performance
00:22:25
Speaker
And Giamatti's like, heard about it and he goes, what? Get them back on the phone and you accept that right now. And then when he finally got on the phone with somebody, he's like, you're gonna make me, you're gonna make me an ape, right? He goes, I'm not gonna be a human, you're gonna make me an ape? Great, cause that's the only condition under which I'll do this movie.
00:22:43
Speaker
Like he wanted to be in this movie. He wanted to be an ape. I know you and I are going to disagree with about this, but I actually like the makeup effects in this movie for the most part. There are a few that don't work very well for me. I think one of the things that makes Giamatti's performance stand out is his ability to act as well as he does in that makeup, because not everybody is. He works with the makeup.
00:23:09
Speaker
He is conscious of the makeup and he makes it a part of his performance. And that's what everybody should have been doing. But you're right. I think he works in it best. And I think that's part of why he shines so brightly in this movie is because he is in a lot of ways the most believable ape performer. Yeah, I believe it. Like and the thing about the effects is the effects are amazing.
00:23:37
Speaker
Like the, the effort that Rick, Rick Baker put into the designs, the great like, like technically, like that is a, a technical feat. Like he should be really proud of it, but also it's fucking ugly.
00:23:52
Speaker
Remember it was a movie. A couple of a couple of episodes back, I was saying the same thing where the effects were fantastic, but it was just so total recall. That's what it was. Recall. That's what it was. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same sort of deal where like like standing ovation for the effects, but also they're ugly as shit. Yeah, I mean, Baker, like a lot of makeup guys was a big fan of the original film because I mean, I would not have known that from watching this movie.
00:24:18
Speaker
Honestly, it's set for Helen, the bottom Carter, who looks fucking awful in this movie with her sideburns. Yeah, I mean, yeah. And this is the movie that made Tim Burton stand up and take notice of her. Why do the why do the girls only the girls have hair? I don't know, man. None of the dudes have hair. The girls have like actual human hair, every single one of them. But
00:24:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:04
Speaker
Like he put his hand on her face and I'm like, that's it's the full beard right there on the side. You're just touching a full beard. Well, I mean, that's that's what zero looks kind of similarly looks like in in the in the original. That's the thing. I think these I think these effects are too good for this movie. I think what worked for the original films is they knew the material and they knew how to handle it. Mm hmm.
00:25:34
Speaker
And like we were saying before, this movie takes itself way too seriously. The old ones, they managed to be good and like, like good films and still, you know, be a little campy and be a little silly while not like compromising the tone of the film. You know, like the serious tone of the film. Well, that's what this film is missing for me, is it's just too, it's too, it's that for Paul Giamatti, it's too, everybody's like hamming it up in the wrong way.
00:26:04
Speaker
They're all way too serious and...
00:26:08
Speaker
Oh my God, it's such a bad movie, Steven. I think the major failing of this movie, and there are many, but for me, the major failing of this movie is the fact that we have, the original films are doing like sci-fi as it's supposed to be done, which is this, like we're taking science fiction and using it as a lens to look at where we are right now as a society.
Science Fiction and Societal Reflection
00:26:36
Speaker
Like Star Trek. Like Star Trek, exactly.
00:26:41
Speaker
And it's doing it very well. It's using the ape-human relationship as a microcosm to talk about religion, to talk about race, to talk about science, all sorts of things, dogmatism, all these things that are really affecting society. And are affecting society still today? Very prescient in that way.
00:27:06
Speaker
All of those original films have a and I think the original director would say these are political films. I have a political point to make when I'm making this. I don't think Tim Burton is capable of making a movie about anything other than weird people finding other weird people. I am convinced that is all Tim Burton can do as a filmmaker.
00:27:33
Speaker
I think that the difference between the social commentary in this film and in the original films exactly is in the original films, the reason that it works and it's just like the X-Men 97 series. And the original X-Men 92 series is the same where it's an obvious allegory.
00:27:56
Speaker
but the references they make to it are not on the nose. Like they get creative and make those tropes fit the world of the film instead of just using real world tropes and throwing an ape on it instead of like an N word or something.
00:28:14
Speaker
Right. Like it's too on the nose. Like everything, instead of like making up their own things to reference things in the real world, they just use the real world thing, real world things and replace it like with a gorilla pun or something. Right. And it's really fucking annoying. And it's kind of disrespectful, honestly. It is in a lot of ways. No, it's I mean, because I'm sitting there and I'm watching this and I'm waiting for like some kind of like
00:28:43
Speaker
point to emerge. And then the movie ends and I'm like, wait, what the fuck was that for? Because again, I feel like science fiction and horror, like genre filmmaking, you have a very unique opportunity to like tell stories that are about the society in which we live in a way that is, in a way that you can't do with like a normal film because
00:29:10
Speaker
if you make like a normal political film about people living in this time and place, it's gonna get a huge reaction. But if you can put a science fiction veneer on it, you can do and be a lot more bold and a lot more daring in what you're doing because you're making a point. And sometimes- See Starship Troopers. Very good example. And sometimes you don't go broad enough with the allegory like Bright,
00:29:37
Speaker
upcoming episode of this podcast, Bright. Still haven't seen it, but I am excited too. I'm not excited, but I haven't seen it either. Or you go like the right amount of it. You can also go like too broad with it to where it just doesn't hit. But this isn't trying to do anything at all. Because again, I don't
00:29:59
Speaker
I feel like Burton doesn't know how to do anything other than make movies about little weirdos being weird. I think that in this story there are things that you can't avoid, you know, comparisons to the real world with racism and classism and stuff like that. So it has to be in the movie. The only way he knows to deal with it
00:30:22
Speaker
is to make puns on actual racial slurs or stereotypes and stuff. And it just gets really annoying, really fucking quick. Yeah, right. Like monkey is a monkey is a derogatory term.
00:30:35
Speaker
And we learned that because he says it and another ape gets offended. Like he gets real, real bad. Yeah, he does. He like tackles him to the ground. The great Carrie Hiroyuki Tagawa, who I did not realize was in this film. I saw him in the credits. I'm like, who is he? And then I like about halfway through the movie, I looked at the IMDB page and I'm like,
00:30:58
Speaker
Is he the, is he the servant for Helena Bonham Carter's dad? And sure enough, that, that is, that is who Kerry, the great Kerry Hiroyuki Tagawa is playing.
00:31:10
Speaker
man this I did I desperately wanted this movie to be good when I first saw it like I had I had a I had Planet of the Apes t-shirts man I had a t-shirt with Cornelius and or Caesar from the Planet of the Apes films dressed like what's his name Shegavara that I that I wore a lot oh yeah I've seen this
00:31:32
Speaker
And I had a buddy or a guy I knew, I wouldn't call him a buddy, but a guy I knew go, so are you a big shig of our guy or do you just like Planet of the Apes? I'm like, I just like Planet of the Apes. He was like, oh, cool, political kindred. Oh, no, you just like the you just like the monkey movies. OK, never mind. I think I think this was kind of the nail in the coffin for me with Tim Burton.
Tim Burton's Career and Beetlejuice Sequel
00:32:03
Speaker
Because I yeah, I feel like this is the beginning of the end for Tim Burton outside of big fish. And I would say Sweeney Todd and as well. I haven't liked anything else that he's done.
00:32:19
Speaker
Again, I kind of feel the same way, but for Sweeney Todd. Now, I'm sure we're going to talk about this again when we do our re-enfranchised on Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, because yep, but I think I really hope that goes well. I am excited to see that movie. I hope that with everybody back, you know, I'm hoping that it goes really well. Michael Keaton, I've seen some online stuff that he's been doing, like the
00:32:44
Speaker
the, um, where they talk about all the roles they play in their career, like for GQ or whoever does those.
00:32:50
Speaker
Seen a couple of those and he seems to be really psyched and he's always talking about how like it's like like like Tim's been doing this stuff for years where he's just like doing studio stuff. But this is like the old days and like it's kind of gotten me hyped. I be hyped for it. Here's the thing. I will say Keaton is the reason I'll say this again on the episode that we record on it. But Keaton's the reason that movie got me like his resurgence in popularity, I think, is the reason that movie exists at all.
00:33:20
Speaker
It took him it took him literally 10 years since Birdman to get it off the ground. But I think that was the one like Keanu Reeves and Constantine like Beetlejuice was always the one that Keaton was kind of trying to push uphill. And it but I mean, look, Tim Burton, the first I would say 10, 11 years of his career unimpeachable.
00:33:42
Speaker
In 85, you got Pee Wee's Big Adventure, you got Beetlejuice. Fantastic. In 88, Batman 89, Edward Scissorhands in 90, Batman Returns in 92, the most Tim Burton movie there ever has been, Ed Wood in 94, and Mars Attacks in 96. Ed Wood's my favorite spoilers. Same.
00:34:02
Speaker
You is a close second. He was a very close second Mars attacks is second for me. Really? That's lower on most people's list. I really like that movie, too I love much higher on my list than it is on most people's but it ain't no number two. I'll tell you that
00:34:18
Speaker
And which is, you know, fair. I just have a soft spot for that movie. I can dig it. In 99, you have Sleepy Hollow, which I don't care for, but I know a lot of people. It's fine. It was it was it was good enough for me to not lose faith. Right. You know.
00:34:34
Speaker
Right. And then you've got Planet of the Apes in 2001. You got Big Fish in 2003, which is his Oscar play. I liked that one. That was really good. It was so awesome and it made me feel good in my heart. The second Tim Burton movie I saw in theaters. Then you got in 2005, you got the double whammy of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Corpse Bride.
00:34:59
Speaker
In 2007, you got Sweeney Todd, the Demon Barber Fleet Street, which I again, I saw in theater. I do dig that one. In 2010, Alice in Wonderland. And that's that's when I was I was fully out on Tim Burton by 2010. Yeah, he was like a parody of himself. That movie was a parody of Tim Burton. That movie just like AI generated. Tim Burton is what that was. It really felt like it. Yeah.
00:35:24
Speaker
And then you have 2012, you have Dark Shadows and Frankenweenie, see our previous episode on Dark Shadows. You've got Big Eyes in 2014, Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children in 2016, and Dumbo in 2019. He's basically spent the time since Planet, it's like a downward progression. It's like a downward- He's retired. He's retired from Tim Burton movies and just started making movies.
00:35:52
Speaker
right, that have that are kind of Tim Burton in aesthetic only. You know, he's a competent filmmaker. So, you know, you can count on him to make something that is at least competent, whether he puts his personal stamp on it or not. I mean, my opinion, and this is me, and I think I've mentioned this on one of the Tim Burton movies we've covered before, either Beetlejuice or Dark Shadows. I don't remember which. But in my opinion, Tim Burton just kind of ran out of stuff to say.
00:36:19
Speaker
After Batman Returns and Ed Wood, he just is like, I've made, these are my statements. Like I made my, my, my weird loan loaner outsider movie and I made, uh, you know, my movie about filmmaking. I'm done. And then people are like still coming to him with ideas. And he's like, I mean, I like making money. I guess I could, I guess. And making movies is fun. Sure. Like I get it. I'm not, I'm not mad at him at all.
00:36:46
Speaker
No, like that doesn't mean I'm going to enjoy the films, but I'm not like saying fuck Tim Burton, like, yeah, Tim Burton, like make get that cheddar Tim Burton, like make that money. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm not even bad. But it feels like he doesn't have it. It feels like there's no flesh in the game anymore for him. It is. Yeah, it is sad when I watch something like Vincent.
00:37:06
Speaker
and you see that creative spark and that, have you seen Vincent? I haven't, I haven't, it's on my, what's it called? It's on my Nightmare Before Christmas, like Deluxe Box at DVD. That is, I think for me, and this feels weird saying because of how good Pee Wee is and how good Ed Wood is, but I think Vincent is my favorite thing he's ever done. Oh, wow.
00:37:33
Speaker
It's really, really good. And your boy Vincent Price narrates it, dude. Right. Like, and it was kind of like his love letter to Vincent Price. And then he reached out and was like, yeah, I'll do it. And then they ended up becoming friends. Like the relationship between Ed Wood and Bela Lugosi in Ed Wood is based on his relationship with Vincent Price. Very similar, for sure.
00:38:01
Speaker
So I mean, like I admire him as a filmmaker, but I feel like he had a good like 12 year run. And ever since then, I don't care. Like I know there are people who are like Tim Burton stands and they love everything he does. But I'm not I'm not that guy. And again, this is a Tim Burton heavy year for us. We're going to be covering three Tim Burton movies this year. This is the first of three. What are the other ones? Can you tell me on Mike?
00:38:29
Speaker
I can tell you one, Mike, because when Beetlejuice Beetlejuice comes out, we're going to be doing a Beetlejuice read up that because really, if anything is going to be when we cover Beetlejuice, if anything is going to be a return to form, it's got to be Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. Come on, man. Come on, you guys. I know you can do it. Come on. Don't let me down, you guys. And our our covenant with our audience, we're covering Beetlejuice Beetlejuice the next week. So. Oh.
00:38:56
Speaker
That's three Tim Burton movies, bitch. It's three movies, but you made a big deal of it. And it's like two movies that are just Beetlejuice. They're two distinct movies directed by Tim Burton. What the fuck else do you want from me? Do you think there's do you think there's going to be stop motion in Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Steven?
00:39:15
Speaker
I hope so. Is that going to be on your bingo card? Is that going to be on your Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice bingo card? No, because I think he's I think he's going to farm it out and do it with CG. I think if Alice in Wonderland taught us anything, it's that he's he's probably not going to spend the extra money. Yeah, but this is this is Beetlejuice. This is.
00:39:36
Speaker
one of this was this was a big movie for him the original. I have to imagine a guy that looks someone who has a specific creative voice like they could be fine doing whatevs and just making money. But that that voice still lives inside of them, dude. I don't know. I can't imagine that. That's kind of my whole point is I don't know that it does.
00:39:59
Speaker
I can't believe that I'm the more hopeful of the two of us. I feel like usually it's the other way around. It feels like a cold corporate cash grab to me, and I'm not looking forward to seeing it. I will watch it for this podcast, but I'm not looking forward to it. I really hope you're wrong, Steven. And I hope that you hope that you're wrong as well. No, I absolutely hope that I am. I don't think I am. Can you imagine a good Beetlejuice sequel now? How amazing that would be with that cast?
00:40:25
Speaker
I would look, I would love for it to happen, but I can't imagine it. I don't know what. And they shot in Vermont. They shot in Vermont, dude. Same place they shot the first one. Fantastic. Cool. Yeah, dude. Your girl, your girl, Jenna, Jenna Ortega is going to be there, dude. I mean, cool. No, Jeffrey Rush. So we're good. We're good. No, Jeffrey Rush. No, Jeffrey Jones. Same thing. It's not, but same thing. It's very much not the same thing.
00:40:55
Speaker
No, registered sex offender Jeffrey Jones will not be in the film. Oh, that's another one where it makes me so mad. Like it's it's sad the things that he did. Sure. But in a very much lesser complaint, man, I really liked him in a lot of movies. He was like the best part of a lot of movies. There's a part of it that's kind of surprised he's not in this, honestly, because like Burton kept working with him.
00:41:23
Speaker
That's true. So did the Deadwood guys. He has a very much reduced role in the Deadwood movie, but he's there. And like, honestly, I don't blame them because you can't like you can't not have him there. If you've seen Deadwood, like you can't. I can't make that movie without the last couple episodes of the last season, honestly, you can't make that movie without him. I wish you could. Like, I hate to see him get money or whatever. And honestly, I hope that he is reformed and has
00:41:52
Speaker
is a good man now, but you know, for his past sins, I hope that he doesn't get money for that kind of stuff, but you can't, you can't do it. Like Deadwood, it's not Deadwood without the newspaper guy. Like he's kind of a big, big part of the story. But that is, that is the last thing that he has done. Yeah.
00:42:12
Speaker
Well, maybe he took an L, man. Maybe he was like, I suck, so maybe I should better myself and get out of the public eye. We can only hope. I think everything that he does tends to get met with some backlash. Burton, the last thing he worked on with Burton was Sleepy Hollow, it looks like. So Burton Burton stopped working with him after that. But you know who is in this movie? Speaking of Beetlejuice, the great the late, great Glenn Shaddocks.
00:42:39
Speaker
Wait, who's that? That's Otho from Beetlejuice. Oh, yeah. He's another Burton mainstay. Yeah, he's the best. Who's he in this movie? He is the senator, the orangutan with the big pudgy face. The one who's married to Ditzy Lisa Marie monkey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who is? I felt so I was so embarrassed for everybody in this movie, but her especially. Honestly.
00:43:07
Speaker
Glenshaddix also that was embarrassing in The Nightmare Before Christmas. Oh, yeah, with the two faces. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like what a what a great what a great actor loved. Love Glenshaddix. And we needed some Paul Rubens, man. I mean, the only role I can see Paul Rubens in is the Paul Giamatti role.
Humorous Recasting and Plot Summary
00:43:29
Speaker
And frankly, I'm glad I'm glad we got Paul Giamatti instead of Paul Rubens. Yeah, you're right.
00:43:36
Speaker
Like, I think that's the Mark Wahlberg role as Peewee. I would watch the hell out this move, this exact movie, except it's Peewee Herman instead of Mark Wahlberg. I'm there for it. Opening day, two times in a row. That's really funny to think about. Yes. Directed by Tim Burton, directed by Tim Burton. Yeah, I'm saying I've watched the shit out of that.
00:44:05
Speaker
It's just me without my planet. They call him a dead dirty human. He's like, I know you are, but what am I?
00:44:22
Speaker
I'm way into it. Let's let's let's get Tim Burton to make that movie. And all you got to do is, well, I guess you can't shoot the Paul Reuben stuff. I was going to say, all you got to do is resurrect Paul Rubens. I was going to say green screen. Just green screen him into the movie. Like, but I guess you can't because he straight up dead. That sucks. He is and it does. Yeah, man, I.
00:44:43
Speaker
Again, I feel weird because I did love this movie so much as a kid. Or I convinced myself that I loved it, you know? And to go back, and I'm just like, we've got Chris Christofferson in this movie for no reason. For no reason he's in this movie. David Warner in this movie for no reason. The great Eric Ovari in this movie, they give him the fucking Wilhelm scream.
00:45:11
Speaker
Yeah, he's been talking in this like low voice the entire movie and then a guitar picks him up and it's like a top five worst use of the Wilhelm scream for me. I just stop using it. Honestly, I'm over it like that's cool, but like I'm over it.
00:45:31
Speaker
The most egregious use of the Wilhelm scream for me is Dante's Peak, where they use it in what is supposed to be like a very like sentimental heartfelt death. Like you're supposed to care that this character has died. And as he's falling into the lava, they give him the Wilhelm scream. And I'm just like, well, fuck you guys. Sounds fantastic. It's the worst.
00:45:52
Speaker
You would be, but no, I hate it. I hate it so much. I love undercutting dramatic moments with dumb shit. You bastard, man. You bastard, man. Oh, God. Should we? Shall we? Yeah, I think that we should. Let's move past the halfway point here and do the plot.
00:46:15
Speaker
All right, so the plot in 60 seconds, part of the show where we at the behest of the coin of justice will determine which of us will be discussing or will be recounting, that's the word, the plot of this film, 2001's Planet of the Apes in 60 seconds, or less I have here at the ready, the coin of justice. Tucker, you, sir, call it in the air. Okay, it's heads. Oh, do we do it again or should we do it again? Find it first.
00:46:45
Speaker
This man, this man has dropped the coin. We don't even know where it is. It's gone. I'll be around here somewhere. I can I can dig out the Canadian quarter of a difference if you can't find it. I mean, I look, I know it's here somewhere. I just don't know where it fell. Oh, that's too bad for you, dude. It's too bad for all of us, really. Is it too bad for everyone involved? Oh, that's not it.
00:47:15
Speaker
All right, I'll get down on my hands and knees later and look around, because I don't wanna lose that. I can dig it, let me find, oh, I'm dropping coins everywhere. It's in here somewhere. See, I'm not the only one. Shut up, it's here. There it is, the Canadian coin of indifference. The Canadian coin of indifference, we got it. We got Demus and we got Da Queen.
00:47:41
Speaker
Queen is heads, Moose is tails. That's true, Steven. You call it in the air. I'm going to call heads. And it is heads. You know what that means. That means Steven has to do the plot. No, it doesn't. It means the other one. Well, I certainly don't like that, but at least this one's an easy one.
00:48:08
Speaker
Alright, I have 16 seconds on the clock. I will give you the 30 and 10 second warnings as I always do. Your time will begin whenever you do. Mark Wahlberg's got a monkey and he has to go into space to explore this like space storm or whatever. And for some reason, Mark Wahlberg goes after him. And he ends up on the planet of the Apes where
00:48:32
Speaker
apes are like humans and humans are like apes except more like slaves instead of like you know just other animals that sometimes we put in cages and like so him and some other humans escape from being slaves and hello bomb carter monkey helps them and they walk for a real long time and they go over some water and then straight up
00:48:53
Speaker
Has it been 30 seconds yet, Steven? Oh, yeah. Sorry. 25 seconds left. OK. And so then they decide to fight all the other apes to gain their freedom or whatever. And he uses a rocket engine to set some of them on fire. And then his monkey comes and saves everybody. And they think he's a god. And they trap the really bad guy. And everybody else just decides to be nice to humans after that. And he goes back to his world, but it's not his world. It's full of apes as well, the end.
00:49:21
Speaker
That's right on the nugget, man. That was good. That was good. That was good. That was good. That felt real, real good, Steven. I'm glad you liked it, man. And you know what? I'm going to reward myself by going to pee real quick. Sounds good. So Tucker, cut this out. Well, I'll cut this part out before and I'll put a five minutes later, you know, like, you know what I'm saying? I know what you're saying. Five minutes later. Hello.
00:49:51
Speaker
look what I found hey there it is uh I'm sorry I have the world's smallest bladder I don't know how I make it through any of these honestly dude I have diabetes and I don't have to pee as much as you do you don't understand look that's why I bring a whole bunch of drinks to work with me
00:50:09
Speaker
But I just sip, most of the time I'll just sip on one of them because if I drink anything in a normal speed every five minutes, I have to, there are some times where I will pee, I'll wash my hands and as I'm leaving the bathroom, I'll have to pee again. It's like, it's like my bladder has shrunk. So like, let's say I drink a 12 ounce beer, right?
00:50:34
Speaker
And my bladder is so small that just a little bit of that beer gets in there. I have to pee. Like maybe two ounces. I don't know. But instead of coming all at once and being like, hey, you should go pee this out. It's like, here's a little bit, go do that. Oh, hey, here's a little bit more, go pee some more. Oh wait, no, no, no. Here's some more, go. Sucks, man. I got a pregnant lady's bladder.
00:51:00
Speaker
I've heard of a teacup bladder, man, but you've got like a, not even a shot glass, but you've got like a thimble bladder, man. I got a thimble bladder, dude.
00:51:08
Speaker
That's what it is. It's made of my existence. But anyway, man, I killed that plot in 60 seconds. That was the best one in a while. You did. You did well, man. You didn't really nailed it. I didn't go too far into it. I didn't get stuck in that normally where, like you explained too much at the beginning. No, dude, I cruised right through that shit. It's almost like you're you're well practiced enough at this point.
00:51:31
Speaker
I've done it a few times. I actually haven't done it that often. Like most of the time it falls to you and I was going to say it's most I haven't. It's mostly me. Yeah. I've been on this podcast for about a year and a half and I've only missed two episodes. And I feel like I've only done the plot a handful of times, dude. Yeah, it's mostly me. Yeah. Like it's just kind of the reality of the situation. I don't know why. Sometimes the coin hates me, I guess, but the coin does not favor you. That's for sure. No.
00:52:01
Speaker
Uh, the, the D six favored me last time. Um, but the, uh, the coin did not favor me last week, but the Canadian quarter of indifference likes me this week. So I'll take it. I guess so. I guess so. Normally it's on my side, but whatever. I will take it. Um, I mean, so this was, so let's, let's talk hell on a bottom Carter little bit. Um, please. She, this is, I think, is this my first time on a bottom Carter movie? You ain't see fight club though.
00:52:32
Speaker
Probably not until- I think that was my first one. No, it was. Okay, that was my first Helena Bonham Carter. I was gonna say, maybe not until after I saw this, but no, I definitely saw that before this. And that, for better or for worse, has shaped my opinion of every performance of hers afterwards. You know what? Fight Club wasn't even my first Helena Bonham Carter. Really? You know what was my first Helena Bonham Carter? I wish you'd tell me. The TV miniseries Merlin.
00:53:03
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I didn't see that. I look dumb with Sam Neill and Helena Bonham Carter. Martin Short is in it. John Gilgood, James Jones, Rutger Hauer, Miranda Richardson, Isabella Rossellini, Lena Hetty, like fucking great cast. But yeah, that's that's my first. That's my first exposure to the Helena Bonham Carter was as the queen.
00:53:33
Speaker
Queen Mab in that miniseries.
Helena Bonham Carter's Career
00:53:36
Speaker
Good for her, man. Yeah, man. Good for her. I bought that one on VHS, like right after it came out. That was a thing that I did. How many tapes was it on? I think it might have just been on one. Oh, wow. I think it was just on one.
00:53:54
Speaker
But yeah, that was my first Helena Bonham Carter. Although before that, she, here's the thing about Helena Bonham Carter, is she's kind of the, and I feel bad saying this, but at least in like the 90s, she gets saddled with the kind of homewrecker label a little bit. Mainly because she is in Howard's End with, I think it's Howard's End.
00:54:23
Speaker
with Emma Thompson and Kenneth Brana. And is it that one or is it? I think it might be another one because I don't think Kenneth Brana is in this. But basically Kenneth Brana leaves Emma Thompson for Helena Bonham Carter. And then Helena Bonham Carter leaves Kenneth Brana for Tim Burton.
00:54:46
Speaker
Who leaves Lisa Marie? Correct. For how long am I apart? Just look. Lisa Marie is not even a snack. She's an entire meal. And I don't know, man. She's wild. I met her once. She's fucking wild, dude. I had to get away from her. I was afraid she was going to eat me.
00:55:08
Speaker
Really? Yes. She's a wild lady. Wild, wild lady. I want to hear all these stories once we stop recording. I have photos. Can't wait to see them. Yeah, she's crazy, dude. I mean, like so they they and I'm pretty sure he ends his previous relationship for her.
00:55:33
Speaker
So like it seems to be a trend. But then his Tim Burton's marriage to Helena Bonham Carter then starts to dip once the two of them do a movie with Ava Green.
00:55:47
Speaker
What? Oh, it Dark Shadows, which is I think the last movie he's done with Carter and Depp. I think it's the last movie he does with both of them. And look, I didn't hate Dark Shadows. I did. But I it doesn't. It's not a very Tim Burton movie to me. It's kind of it's kind of like if.
00:56:10
Speaker
like maybe the in the 90s when they were resurrecting all the 60s and 70s TV shows and making really funny movies out of them like Adam's Family and Brady Bunch and that shit. Correct. That that was the Tim Burton Dark Shadows was that but about 15 years too late.
00:56:29
Speaker
I agree. And I thought I thought it was funny, actually. I thought it was really funny, but it didn't. I don't think of it as a Tim Burton movie. I know he directed it. When I think of Tim Burton movies, I don't think of Dark Shadows. I mean, I don't think of a lot of his late stage stuff. I think of the earlier stuff, honestly. But he's I don't know if they're ever like official officially together, but like they were like
00:56:57
Speaker
shot together a lot, him and Ava Green. And now he's with Monica Belucci. It's got to be the hair, man. I don't know what it is, man. But yeah, he's apparently with Monica Belucci now. And is Monica Belucci in? I don't know if she's in Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. I kind of want to know now if she is, because that's I mean, that's kind of his thing. That's kind of what he does. Yeah.
00:57:26
Speaker
I mean, and that's probably easy to do, honestly. Yeah. I'm not saying it's the right thing or the decent thing to do, but I'm probably it's probably pretty easy. Got a lot of pretty talented gals around you. It's hard not to fall in love sometimes, I suppose. Sure. I imagine I imagine so. Monica Belushi is she's playing spoiler, I guess, if you don't want to know this and you've not looked up anything for the movie, Beetlejuice's wife.
00:57:56
Speaker
That's interesting, that's fucking interesting. Okay, I'm still, look, it's, man, I hope it's good. I want it to be so good. Oh, I didn't know he was in this movie. That's gonna be fun. Spoiler, I guess, again, Willem Dafoe.
00:58:16
Speaker
Oh yeah, I heard he was gonna be in it. Yeah, I wonder who he's gonna be. A ghost detective who in life was a B-movie action star. Hey, see, now this sounds like old Tim Burton, Stephen. Come on, that's some old Steve Burton. Steve Burton, good old Steve Burton. No, it's your cousin, Steve Burton. You remember that new weird look you were searching for? Well, check this out. Mm, wowsers.
00:58:46
Speaker
Um, yeah, I don't know, man, old Steve Burton. It's it's got it's got three writers attached. Alfred Gough, Miles Miller and Seth Graham Green. Who we have discussed previously on this podcast when we talked about Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter. That that movie was. Could have been better. That's what I'll say. Could have been a lot better.
00:59:15
Speaker
Our mutual friend JP Lech was on that episode. Oh yeah, that's right. We need to get him back on the schedule. We need to get him back in here. Yeah, dude. I'm going to be seeing him in a few weeks, so I'll put a bug in his ear about it. Yeah, I saw that on the calendar. I got confused. I was like, wait, did I commit to something?
00:59:35
Speaker
that I forgot about. Oh, did I put it on the shared calendar on the disenfranchised calendar? Yeah. Oops. I was very confused there for a minute. It's one of the only things you put on there in a while, Steven. Look, man, look, the last week has been nuts. And that's all I will say on my last week has been whatever.
00:59:56
Speaker
I ain't mad at you. Like Tupac said, I ain't mad at you. You a down-ass bitch, Steven, but I ain't mad at you. I don't know what any of that means, but thank you. That's all right. Yeah, it's a compliment. Are we ready to get into the ending of this movie? Yeah, please, let's. We've already talked about, at length, the only part of this movie that's worth talking about, which is Paul Giamatti, so yes.
Planet of the Apes: Ending and Development Hell
01:00:19
Speaker
I mean, we've talked about other things that I enjoy, like the makeup effects. Again, I really enjoyed. They're great. They are fantastic. Yes, but they're ugly as hell. I agree. Yeah. And the designs, I hate the armor. It's so stupid and ugly and ribbed for no reason. No, it's not ribbed for no reason. It's ribbed for her pleasure. Damn it. I guess. I guess.
01:00:43
Speaker
Speaking of the ending, I liked the actual human clothes on the primates there. I thought that was that was a nice touch. And also, I like this ending because fuck Mark Wahlberg, man. How did you feel about Abraham Lincoln?
01:01:02
Speaker
Look, I thought it was all like, here's the thing. Every time this movie tries to surprise you, they telegraph it so hard that like when the monkey came and saved it, when the spaceship came down like, oh, it's a monkey. Yes, the monkey. It's just put it down. It's the show. Open it up. It's the monkey. It's the fucking monkey. Come on. Right. And they even have the helmets all blurred out. It's like it's we know it's the fucking monkey. But you get on with it. Mm hmm.
01:01:28
Speaker
And that's how that whole sequence felt. It was like, oh, he's home, right? I'll bet that voice on the other end, air traffic control, but that's my fucking eight. And then he walks into the why does he even go in there? Why wouldn't he just like maybe go to a street to try and find someone? Why is he walking to the Lincoln Memorial? Why? He crashes right in front of it. I understand. But why do you walk up to? Oh, you know, I haven't seen Lincoln Memorial in a while. I just crashed a spaceship. I might as well take a look at it. See what's up. See if it's changed at all.
01:01:58
Speaker
Can I just tell you how much I enjoy the fact that Mark Wahlberg is supposed to be playing this like hot shot pilot and he cannot land a spacecraft to save his fucking life. His monkey does it better. Correct. And he even calls that out. It's better. Hey monkey, landed the plane better than I did. So how do your mother for me? Hey, hey chicken. That was great. But wait, I got to mix that.
01:02:27
Speaker
Yeah, I'll point you in the face. It felt very, very predictable. It was more in line with the ending of the original novel, which features the main character landing on what he thinks is Earth and basically
01:02:47
Speaker
a general or a military officer rides up to him in a jeep and it turns out to be an ape. And so they fly off into space. That's the ending of the original novel. And now the writing on the memorial, that made it seem like this was the future of the world he had just come from, kind of?
01:03:13
Speaker
I would, no, okay, so here's- Because it looked just like Tim Roth. Abe Lincoln looked like Tim Roth. It was, and it says behind it basically something blah, blah, blah, general fade who freed the apes on this planet. It's Bizarro. It's the Bizarro version of the world he just came from. Okay, so here's- Where the main thing that happened happened differently.
01:03:37
Speaker
The ending of this movie was so confusing. Like Tim Roth was like, I watched it twice. I don't know what the fuck just happened. Yeah, on a bottom card is like, I don't know what the big deal was about. The ending was so confusing that for those who bought the DVD, like I did.
01:03:53
Speaker
they had to put in the DVD and insert to explain how that might have happened. Now, feasibly, that would have been explained in a sequel. And in fact, Tim Burton was like, yeah, that's I think that was the whole point of it. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, as far as from what I read, he was just kind of like he was doing a Halloween five where he was he was like, good luck.
01:04:16
Speaker
Good luck guys who write the sequel idiots. Yeah, come out. I fucked you. Yeah, I fucked you. Don't forget who fucked you. Tim Burton fucked you. But yeah, basically, yeah, that very much strikes me in this in this ending. This ending feels like a big fuck you to the people who've been watching this movie up to this point and the poor, poor bastards that have to write the sequel. Correct.
01:04:43
Speaker
But essentially, the conceit is that Fade manages to escape from his imprisonment within the Oberon, like you know he's going to, gets the ship that Wahlberg sunk at the bottom of the lake,
01:04:58
Speaker
finds a way to dig it back up and you can fix it and uses it and he exits the cloud feasible or presumably years later. And so he goes further back in time, then, then Mark Wahlberg did. And so he goes in, say maybe to the 1800s.
01:05:16
Speaker
in America and ends up creating the ape uprising that by present time now leads to the civilization that we see. He's old biff and back to the future too. He's old biff. He's old biff. Yeah. That's all you had to say, Steve. He's old biff and I'd be like, got it. Fucking got it, dude. But again, this this was in there was an inch and I can't find a picture of it. Like I looked for an illustration of it online. I couldn't find it.
01:05:47
Speaker
Yeah, you know, what I couldn't understand was I as predictable as this movie was when he was shooting inside of the bulletproof glass and it was ricocheting around. Mm hmm. How did one of those bullets should have hit him? And how did it not correct? And why did it not? And I kept expecting it to. And it never fucking happened.
01:06:13
Speaker
all those bullets in that small, small space. There's no way he dodged all of them as they were ricocheting around. Correct. I just thought that was absurd. Like insult to injury there, basically. It's like, OK, we finally get Tim Ross character who I hate the performance. I hate the character. I hate everything about that that character. And he's finally in a position to just straight up die. No, he just cowers under a shelf.
01:06:43
Speaker
After somehow like Matrix dodging a hundred ricocheting bullets. Um, the, so with regard to Tim, uh, to Tim Roth's performance, all of the ape actors had to go to an ape camp, basically, uh, led by the great Terry Notary who played the ape in Nope.
01:07:05
Speaker
Terry notary legit very good He and Andy circus are like the foremost like motion capture guys like they're the monkey guys. Yeah, they are they're the two and But yeah, so I am I'm assuming that a lot of the physical things that Tim Roth is bringing Are come out of that camp like the sniffing everything like he sniffs everything
01:07:31
Speaker
And Roth actually went to Burton at one point and said, hey, can you like rewrite some of these lines and make me feel more menacing? And Burton's like, yeah, sure. So like, it's Roth's call to go that big. Like, Roth's the one that wants to go that big. And Burton's the one going, yes, please, let's get you bigger. Like, I don't know if he just felt like he had to go that big because he was under the prosthetics or what it was, but
01:07:55
Speaker
Like there was something for me, dude. Right. And I don't think he's half bad, but I don't think he's half good either. There's like that. I can. There's some moments that I really like and some moments where I'm like, that's a little too much mustard, dude. Look, it's Tim Roth.
01:08:10
Speaker
And I know he's doing his best and I know he's making the decisions as an actor that he thinks are correct. But not everyone is perfect all the time. And I don't think he made the right decisions, the right choices, acting choices in this film. I think he took it in a direction that just is embarrassing to watch, honestly.
01:08:34
Speaker
but it doesn't take away anything as an actor, for me at least. It doesn't make me think of him as less of an actor because I know he's better than that. Oh yeah. But like I say, you don't get it right all the time. Nobody does. Do you know who they originally wanted to play General Fade in this movie? No, who was it? Gary Oldman. He's in the new ones. That's what I heard, yeah. Yeah. But they wanted him in this one.
01:09:03
Speaker
Um, Mark Wahlberg wanted to be in this movie so badly that he dropped out of playing the Matt Damon role in Oceans 11. Oceans 11, yeah. Good. Not a great career move for him, but- Yeah, but at least he didn't stink up Oceans 11. True. I, you know, that's- I take Damon any day over Wahlberg. 100%. Any fucking day.
01:09:25
Speaker
Definitely, except at the end of except at the end of the departed. But yeah, yeah, they're they're good in the roles they have in the depart. Yes, correct. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. But I have to if I have to pick one of them. It's going to be Damon every time. Oh, agreed. I mean, Damon is more consistently good than Wahlberg for sure. Yeah.
01:09:44
Speaker
He's got the chops. He's proven it time and time again. He does. Yeah, I don't know, man, this there are things I like about this movie, but there are more things I dislike about this movie, like the things I like about this movie. Don't cover. I mean, Michael Clark Duncan. I love the great Michael Clark Duncan. I love him. I feel like he's kind of wasted in this. He's just wasted guy.
01:10:09
Speaker
I don't like his performance in this either, which also hurts me to say the only other ape that I thought gave a performance that fit in this movie. Glenn Chadducks. I don't I don't maybe who that was, but I'm talking about with the big jowls, man, the senator, dude. No, no, no, no. I'm talking about the dude that was with Helen Bonham Carter, her like guard guy or whatever. Carrie, Carrie, Harry, Yuki Tagawa. That guy.
01:10:35
Speaker
was good. He he was fantastic. I thought he was enough ape like to be convincing, but he wasn't overdoing it like some people. Tim Roth. You know, like Tim Roth could have could have taken a lot of notes from that guy's performance, for sure. For sure. Sure.
01:10:58
Speaker
I love you. I did like a whole research timeline of the development hell of this movie, but I don't even know if we need it anymore. Oh, man.
01:11:07
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know, man. Basically, here's so here's the takeaway. The big takeaway is that in 99, they basically offered William Broyles, Jr., who is a big fan of just stranding Tom Hanks in places. He wrote Apollo 13 and Castaway. That guy. Yeah, he's that guy. They're like, look, you can you want to write the plan of this review? He's like, no. And they're like, you can do whatever you want. And he's like, no. He's like, no, thanks.
01:11:35
Speaker
And then he goes outside and like gazes up the stars and like, you know what, this could be fun. And they're like, no, he calls it back. He's like, so no restrictions whatsoever. And they're like, no, he's like, does it have to have apes in it? And he's a planet of the apes. It's in the title. Apparently he was only half joking when he said that, but like, OK.
01:11:56
Speaker
But yeah, I look at like other variations of this movie that could have been. The one we have is possible casts, Stephen, some interesting possible casts. So in 88, you've got Adam Rifkin attached to write and direct. His script is actually available online. I have a copy of it. And it's like Spartacus with apes is was his conceit.
01:12:18
Speaker
I would hate that, but I'll bet even if it was good, I would hate that. So you got you got Tom Cruise and or Charlie Sheen being pursued for the starring role as a descendant of Charlton Heston. Danny Elfman. Yeah, it's but it's like the original legacy equal where their legacy sequel. Yeah. Where they're going just like like David Gordon Green's Halloween. We're like just the first one is canon and fuck the rest. Oh, I don't like that. But like in 1988, he was doing that.
01:12:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's innovative. But for this franchise, I'm not a fan. And apparently the movie the movie that he wanted to make was essentially Gladiator with apes. Like that's essentially what he wanted to do. Danny Elfman was attached to the score. Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh pitch a movie about the apes going through the Renaissance.
01:13:09
Speaker
They write a Leonardo da Vinci-esque role for for Roddy McDowell, who's really excited. Studio kind of doesn't really want to do it. So Peter Jackson's like, fine, I'll just make heavenly creatures instead.
Peter Jackson and Oliver Stone's Involvement
01:13:22
Speaker
I'd rather have that than the King Kong remake, which wasn't bad. I'm just saying. Dude, I love that King Kong remake. But I'm glad that he did Heavenly Creatures, though, because that's a really good movie. That's his straight story. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it right now. That's a straight story.
01:13:38
Speaker
It's a it's also his breakout. Like, that's his like the movie that puts him on the map. It kind of is. I mean, you know, Steven, Steven, you weren't a horror fan in those days, so it's a different perspective. As a horror fan, we've been watching Bad Taste and Dead Alive for years, but we were ready, dude. Here's what I'm saying, though, is that Heavenly Creatures is the movie that gives him the cache.
01:14:07
Speaker
to make the Frighteners gives him the cachet to make Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings, yeah. Sure, no, I agree with you. I agree with you, I'm just saying. The fortune opportunities that he gets later in his career. I think he was on the radar of certain circles, like way before that, and we were kind of waiting, kind of waiting for him to, for Hollywood to notice. Sure, sure. And that's why, I mean, Heavenly Creatures is really good too.
01:14:34
Speaker
It is. It's very good. You've seen it, yeah. It's been years, but yeah, I have.
01:14:40
Speaker
In the mid-90s, you get an attempt by the producers of Natural Born Killers. The studio's like, I'm only interested if Oliver Stone directs. Oliver Stone's like, fuck that, I don't want to. I don't like the Planet of the Apes movies. Natural Born Killers, that's one of my big red flags. If I meet someone over the age of say, I'm going to be generous and say 25, and Natural Born Killers is their favorite movie,
01:15:08
Speaker
Instant red flag. Agreed. Instant red flag. Agreed. Stone did come on to executive produce the guy who wrote the scripts for Road Warrior and Beyond Thunderdome. Oh, nice. Wrote the screenplay. Yeah. This is what I want to see.
01:15:24
Speaker
Philip noise of clear and present danger and patriot games was attached to direct Arnold Schwarzenegger was attached to star we get Harrison Ford in this no Arnold Schwarzenegger dude give me Harrison Ford plan of the apes I'd watch the shit out of that but there is a one of the studio heads is like insistent that there's a scene with apes playing baseball
01:15:45
Speaker
And they're trying to figure out the game of baseball, but they're missing an element. And so the human character like shows them, like, like becomes the pitcher and then they figure it out and start playing baseball. And he was like dead set on this film being included. So Hayes turns in a draft of the script that doesn't have the baseball in it. So he's fired and he goes, well, fuck you. I'm off with him because they had done dead column together. So noise leaves to do The Saints here. Previous episode of The Saint. Oh, I like that movie.
01:16:11
Speaker
Stone eventually leaves as well, so they bring on Chris Columbus to direct. He of Home Alone and Mrs. Doubtfire fame. Yeah, and he did that Harry Potter movie too. The first two, yeah. He teams up with Sam Ham who wrote Tim Burton's Batman 89 to make a more kid-friendly version of the Apes after Columbus
01:16:34
Speaker
because because kids bring their parents and buy popcorn and movie tickets, I guess, man. But I mean, you know, I don't know of the series like Planet of the Apes. I don't feel like you have to tone it down, honestly. As long as you don't get too graphic with it, even what was this movie rated PG-13? Yeah. Like this would have been an easy PG in the 80s or in the 90s, like. It's I think they're all PG, too. Yeah, they are every single one of them. Yes.
01:17:04
Speaker
This is the family sci-fi series, Steven.
James Cameron and Hughes Brothers' Vision
01:17:08
Speaker
Chris Columbus leaves after his mom dies. And guess who steps up to replace him? Maybe one of the biggest sci-fi directors of all time. I don't know. Jimmy Cameron.
01:17:22
Speaker
Oh, it's your boy, your boy, Mr. Cameron. Yeah, Jimmy Cameron Arnold is still attached to star. And so Cameron's like, all right, I'll produce. I'm not going to direct it, though. But then after Titanic hits really big, Cameron's like, you know what? I'd rather just do my own thing, because that's where I've had the most. Maybe I don't have to make genre films anymore, right? Is that what he said? No, he's done her films exclusively. He said there's a quote I read. I don't have it here in front of me. But basically, he's like, I'm 44.
01:17:49
Speaker
All of my biggest hits were original ideas like The Abyss, Terminator, True Lies, like all these things were like these were my ideas. So like, why do I need to like riff on something someone else? I think the only movie movies he did that were based on another person's ideas were Aliens and Piranha 2 The Spawning are the only ones that are really based on someone else's concepts. Yeah.
01:18:15
Speaker
So he's just like, I don't need that. So he backs out. They pitch to Michael Bay, Roland Emmerich. They try to hit up Peter Jackson again. They all say no. Project dies, 1999, right before they pitch it to Broyles.
01:18:30
Speaker
The Hughes Brothers of Menace to Society and Dead Presidents. Oh, yeah. Oh, I love Dead Presidents. Steven, watch Dead Presidents. That's an early Chris Tucker dramatic performance. Probably his first. I was going to say, he don't do a lot of those. He's fantastic in that movie. That whole film, that's the Hughes Brothers movie right there.
01:18:53
Speaker
Yeah, like there are other stuff. It's fine. It's even good. But dead presidents, it's like minutes to society is on Criterion 4K right now. Look, I understand that minister society is a classic for a reason, but dead presidents takes minutes to society and mixes it with like a heist movie and a coming of age neighborhood story. Hmm. And it's so, so good.
01:19:24
Speaker
And is it streaming anywhere because I kind of want to watch it ASAP. I always forget about it. The trailer is very misleading. Like they marketed that wrong, which if it did not do well, that's why. Because boy, did they market that movie wrong. Dead Presidents is currently streaming. If you have a library card, it's currently streaming on Hoopla.
01:19:46
Speaker
I don't even have a New Hampshire driver's license yet, Steven. I don't have a fucking library
Box Office Performance and Listener Engagement
01:19:50
Speaker
card. Can I rent it? It is rentable on iTunes, Apple TV, Google Play, Prime Video and Voodoo. I buy that on 4K. Honestly, I'd watch the crap out of that on 4K because that is a beautiful film. Looks like maybe we have a Blu-ray.
01:20:15
Speaker
Nope, just a DVD. Yeah, just a DVD, man. So I'll just watch. I'll rent it streaming them so I can watch it in HD at least. There you go. I might buy it from the Voodoo so I can share it with everyone. That'd be nice. Because you should see it. It's really, really good. I'd be a lot more likely to watch. I've only seen one Hughes Brothers movie, and I think it's Book of Eli. That one's, look, that's a good movie, but I don't like it. And that's all I'll say.
01:20:44
Speaker
It's a really good movie, but I just can't appreciate the tone and I just can't get into it. I recognize it's good, but I can't fucking get into it. That's fine. That's fine. You're allowed. You're allowed to not like something, man. Thank you, Steven. I gave you permission to not like something. Thank you so much. No problem. That's what I'm here for, man.
01:21:05
Speaker
But yeah, and their version would have been a lot more socially motivated and would have been dealing with American racial tensions in the late 90s, early 2000s. And probably would have been, again, a lot more culturally relevant than this thing was. Yeah. So yeah, that's the brief overview of the development hell that this movie went through before finally getting made.
01:21:32
Speaker
And how did it do once it got released? I'm sorry, go ahead. Well, I just, before you say that I am very much ready to move on to that, but I wanted to say that it, it shows that they spend a lot of money on this movie and it shows that a lot of people behind the scenes worked very, very hard on this movie. And I think for me, that just makes it suck so much more.
01:21:57
Speaker
because of how much effort people put into this. Like they put their hearts and souls into it. And it's just it's just garbage. It sucks. Yeah, it's so bad. Yeah, it's. I like about 10 minutes in, I don't even want to watch it anymore. Like I said, I'm just like hoping Paul Giamatti pops up as often as possible. Like every time he's not there, I'm like, is he going to can he come back, though?
01:22:26
Speaker
And man, him at the end like I know like buy some aspirin. I love that they didn't like turn him into a good guy, but they just kind of like repurposed him in this new world. That was like not as not as big. He's still a scumbag, but at least he's not a slave trader anymore. You know what I mean? Like that's all the redemption arc he gets. That's all he deserves. And it's fucking perfect.
01:22:54
Speaker
Yeah, that was the original arc. Everything has to do with Paul Giamatti in this movie is fantastic and perfect. Please continue, Steven. No, that was the original arc, but both Paul Giamatti and Tim Burton are like, this is lame. So let's just keep him an asshole, please. And yeah, that's what they did. He's just trying to save his old ass at all times. At all times. At all times. Going with whatever is the most advantageous for him in the moment. If I could just get a Paul Giamatti super cut of this movie, I would watch it.
01:23:25
Speaker
often probably, I love him in this movie so much. And that might just be because he is a reprieve, like there's a little bit of light shining in the darkness that is this movie. So this movie opens on July 27th, 2001, that is just shortly after my birthday that year. It's the summer of my graduation, Steven.
01:23:54
Speaker
Think that would have that was the summer of my graduation as well. Yeah, dude. I also graduated that May. I also graduated that May. Fucking Conseco Fieldhouse, dude. Oh, Covenant Christian High School gymnasium. Yeah, well, that's why I'm rad and you're lame. Well, fuck you. Chicken Steven. It's all love, dude. It's all love. I know, dude. I know. Bonk. You have a bonk?
01:24:24
Speaker
I mean, my other hand is just over here. I don't even wanna know, dude. No, you don't. Head check. Head check, everybody. Okay, good. No!
01:24:38
Speaker
It opens number one at the box office the week it comes out to sixty eight point five million dollars on its way to a pretty healthy domestic gross of one eight hundred and eighty thousand domestic. But I mean, that's just a little less than half of that box office. So, you know, not as great as they probably wanted it to be in terms of we were excited for it. Everybody was excited. We people were fucking hyped. I was hyped for this movie.
01:25:07
Speaker
I was ready. I will look up what it does. It's down 60 percent in the second weekend and then down another 52 percent in the third weekend. So by the third weekend, it's earned most of its it's one hundred and forty eight million. It's earned most of its domestic domestic box office at this point.
01:25:30
Speaker
That's that word of mouth in a bad way. Yes. Yes, it is. Number two at the box office is Jurassic Park three. Joe Johnston's Jurassic Park three. Johnson. That's his misfire. I feel like that's if this is Tim Roth's mistake. Jurassic Park three is his mistake. All right. That's fair. That's fair, I guess. Number three, America's sweethearts.
01:26:01
Speaker
Hey, that was OK. Alan Arkin's in that big plus. A lot of people in that. Alan Arkin's the most important. OK, whatever. Calm down. So what's fourth? Legally Blonde. Oh, cool. Everybody loves that movie. Everybody. And in fifth place, Frank Oz is the score in fifth place there. Marlon Brando, Robert De Niro, Edward Norton. Final performance. Who's the fourth?
01:26:32
Speaker
I've never seen it. Brando, DeNiro, Norton, and? It came out when I worked at the video store. That's the only reason I know all that. I have no idea. Angela Bassett. Oh, yeah. OK. Yeah, I mean, like I love Angela Bassett, but I was never going to that was never going to be a guess. So.
01:26:54
Speaker
She wasn't on the cover, man. The other three were on the cover. She should have been. Like I said, I worked at the video store and it came out. I haven't seen it. All I know is the cover, Steven. It's red. In sixth place, Dr. Doolittle 2. In seventh place, Cats and Dogs, which I think that movie about
01:27:13
Speaker
The dogs where they fight. Yes, yes. Like spies and Sean Hayes is Mr. Tinkles. Yeah, Alec Baldwin's in it as a dog. Sure. Playing a Russian dog, I think in eighth place, the fast and the furious in this economy. This is this tracks. These are all movies that came out when I worked at the video store, dude. Yeah. In ninth place, Gary Movie Two and in 10th place, Shrek.
01:27:42
Speaker
In its 11th week, it's earned $255.5 million. Shrekmania. Big ass hit. And in 12th place, you just want to spotlight this because it's a future episode. Final Fantasy, Colin, the spirits within. Oh, man, that's such a pretty boring movie. It's so pretty, so boring.
01:28:06
Speaker
But yeah, like I said, it goes on to gross $180 million domestic, another 182 internationally for a $362 million box office on a $100 million budget.
01:28:42
Speaker
He didn't specify how high the window was, so like...
01:28:48
Speaker
I mean, he could that could mean he wants to make one. Maybe they misinterpreted it. Maybe he meant like I want to jump out of the window of like a plastic toddler house in my yard. Sure. And just have a tumble, a fun tumble.
01:29:02
Speaker
And it doesn't mean maybe it's an open window, not necessarily a closed one. Exactly. You don't necessarily have to be breaking through glass to jump through a window. Not enough context, quite frankly. He could want to jump out of a car window, a parked car window. How do you say some shit like that and then not expect people to speculate? I mean, you're just so vague. What kind of window? Absurd.
01:29:24
Speaker
The Tomatometer score on the 2001 Planet of the Apes is 43%. Fair. The critics' consensus, the remake of Planet of the Apes can't compare to the original in some critics' mind, but the striking visuals in B-movie Charms may win you over. What B-movie Charms? Shh. They're talking about the first one? Because they're not talking about this one. There ain't no B-movie Charms there. The Metascore. It's like whatever the opposite of B-movie Charms is. I don't even know what that would be,
01:29:55
Speaker
The Metascore is a 50 based on mixed or average reviews from 34 critics, excuse me. And Tucker, you wanna take a stab at the letterboxed score. In between 2.7 and 3.1. It is a 2.3. Ooh, okay. Overshot your landing a little bit. I see you, yeah. Much like Mark Wahlberg, you overshot your landing a little bit.
01:30:23
Speaker
Well, that man does not need to fly a spaceship. Nope. Last person I'm gonna wanna fly a spaceship. Just put the monkey in your lap. Let him do it. Yep. That's the move. But yeah, so Tucker, I think I have an idea of what the answer might be, but out of five stars, how are you ranking 2001's Planet of the Apes? That's gonna be a solid two stars with a bullet and both of those stars
01:30:53
Speaker
go to Paul Giamatti. I'm gonna go two on this one as well. I'm gonna go two on this one as well. It's a solid two. Does it have redeeming characteristics? Yes. Does it have a lot of them? No. So few of them in fact that I...
01:31:12
Speaker
I mean, I feel like I've talked about all of them ad nauseam here. Like, yeah, there are things things I like about it. There are a lot of things I don't and more things I don't than things I do. So there will you watch it again? Do you see yourself watching this again? And it's set for if it's for another podcast.
01:31:30
Speaker
I mean, I own it. So it's look at some point, at some point, Tucker, I am going to watch through all of the Planet of the Apes. So, yeah, if you do a watch through, yeah, that's understandable. That's totally fair. You like the show, though, as well, Steven, at least the live action one, the animated one. The live action one. I don't think it's streaming anywhere right now. I looked it up and I didn't see that it was streaming. Well, you better get a bootleg DVD from a sci-fi convention or something, dude, because
01:32:00
Speaker
I have not seen it in a long time, but like I have very fond memories of watching that with my sister and my dad. We were way into that. Don't remember anything about it. I just remember being way into it. Yeah, it is. I had a few action figures. I can get the the DVD on Amazon for about 28 bucks. So that is worth twenty eight dollars, Steven. Is it not streaming anywhere? That's like, no, that's what I just said.
01:32:29
Speaker
Now, no, not even on YouTube. No. Oh, I don't know about you, too. I haven't looked on YouTube, but the animated series is also not streaming anywhere. That one, though, I'm pretty sure I can't buy it. It's on YouTube. It is. Yep. Got you a playlist right here, buddy. Right on. I'm going to hook you up. Do we include that in the show notes?
01:32:54
Speaker
Nah, they can find it. Just look up Planet of the Apes series and you'll see a playlist. Sounds good. And hopefully they got the animated show on there too. Probably. But yeah, I own all those movies. I am I'm going to do a Planet of the Apes watch there one of these days. I will. And if you follow me on letterbox, you'll probably read all about it.
01:33:17
Speaker
I'm excited to hear about it, honestly. I'd love to do a Patreon thing, but I know we could never commit to it because of our schedules. Our schedules are kind of insane right now, and you're you're in your busy season. Brett's I mean, honestly, Brett and I both have shit going on. So like it's it's kind of a miracle we were able to sit down and record this episode. Not going to lie. I'm really hoping that next week comes together because next week spoilers. Jimmy's going to be here next week.
01:33:47
Speaker
Yeah, and it's a straight up. We're going to say it's a fifth Thursday, so we got a straight up, straight up coming your way straight up with with a just I would say a standard guess at this point. There's a few people who are going to be pretty standard guests on straight up, one, of course, being JP Lech and the other being Jimmy, because these are two dudes
01:34:13
Speaker
that I really like talking to all the time about everything. So tune in next week. We're doing we're doing a straight up and Jimmy's going to be there. And look, I don't want to like burly too much, but he's got a new single coming out and it's a real, real good.
01:34:40
Speaker
I saw some pics on his Instagram about some of the recording sessions on some of that stuff, so it looks pretty cool. It's so good. It's a really, really good song. Yeah. The disenfranchised podcast. You can find us on all the social media sites, or at least some of them, at Disinfranch Pod, the big ones, Instagram, Letterboxd, Facebook.
01:35:09
Speaker
Blue Sky and YouTube. Head on over to patreon.com slash disenfranch pod for five bucks a month you get access to so much content including an episode of what are we watching that Tucker and I recorded right before this episode that should be dropping probably Sunday as of this record as of this release date my is my guest Sunday or Monday.
01:35:34
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I'm going to try and get it out this weekend since we haven't done anything else for the Patreon. So which we again, we were meaning to. But again, our schedules are just so insane that us getting together to record main feat is kind of a miracle these days. So we have we have a plan for the Patreon. It just might take some time for us to do it for it to, you know, come to be.
01:35:59
Speaker
But one thing we do have on the Patreon is days of content, days that but also the official conversation hub of the disenfranchised podcast. We drop all the main feed episodes right into your Patreon feed. So you can go ahead and listen directly from the Patreon feed if you'd like. And you don't have to pay us. You don't have to pay us. That's at a free tier. So you don't have to pay for that.
01:36:25
Speaker
It's actually public. You don't even have to join our Patreon. No. Like you should like at the free tier. Be a whole lot cooler if you did. I said him as public, man. And that's when here in the show and we're like, tell us in the comments if we ever I don't know if we say that, but it sounds like something we would say. If we ever say that, those are the comments we're talking about. Those are the only ones. We don't look at comments anywhere else because really, I don't read them. It's every YouTube comments, I guess, but we don't. I don't read those. I do.
01:36:53
Speaker
Oh, I don't. So there was one that I didn't understand. So I responded with a song lyric. Cool. Yeah. That's the move. The comment was nothing. The word nothing. Hmm. And so I quoted a Ben Queller song and said, nothing is it nothing, something, nothing that's important to me. That's right. That's how it should be. Shasha, sha do end quote. Yeah.
01:37:24
Speaker
But yeah, Patreon though, not YouTube. Patreon's where it's at. And if you want to support us without paying us, then please head to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, and leave us a nice big old five star rating and review, please, and thank you. If you do leave us a review, especially on Apple Podcasts, we will read it on the podcast. I will just straight up read your words on this show.
01:37:49
Speaker
So I'd like to add another another part to that. I'm willing to do it in any voice that you choose. Just indicate it in your review. What voice you want one of us to read it in. And I'm sorry, just me, then I will commit to that. If you heard me do an impression on this show, of which I've done some good ones and some bad ones, just let me know. Say Tucker, do it as Al Pacino and I will fuck that up. And but it will be really funny.
01:38:20
Speaker
Just, you know. It'll be something. Yeah, we'll have fun with it is what I'm saying. We will do something. Spicier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, so hit us up there. Five star rating and review, please. And thank you. And yeah, you can find me on social media if you want. I'm Steven Foxworthy, your host here. You can find me at Chewy Walrus on Blue Sky Instagram and Letterboxed. You can also buy my book.
01:38:49
Speaker
By Steven's book. I wrote a book, you guys, with my partner, past and future guest, Mandy Gossage. We wrote a wrote a book. It's a comedy thriller, I guess, for lack of a better way to put it. A comedy, a comedy. Yeah, maybe a killer comedy. I don't know. A costume, a Camilla.
01:39:15
Speaker
I like mine better because poop. Right. Yeah, poop. Yeah. Mm hmm. We love poop. But yeah, you can find that on Amazon. You can find it in ebook or paperback format. I can't get it physically. Oh, yeah, because you're going to sign it, but I want to read it soon. I better. I can text me your address, Steven. All right.
01:39:35
Speaker
I'll do it once we stop recording. Remind me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, we we wrote it. We're actually already working on our second book. We did some writing on it literally earlier today. Is it a sequel? It's not a sequel. It is a completely different thing. Does it take place in the same universe? Are we going to see some crossover at some point? Doubtful.
01:39:59
Speaker
OK, that's it. It could, but I doubt it. But it it is going to tonally probably be very similar. So it'll be a spiritual sequel of nothing else because we're the ones writing it. And so our our voices and our tones are going to be very similar there. But yeah, so that. But yeah, buy my book, please. And thank you. I'm doing it right now. I'm just waiting for you to send me your address. Oh, yeah. What am I? Why don't I put it in the chat here?
01:40:27
Speaker
Yeah, because I'm just going to buy it and send it to you so you and your partner can sign it. And then I'm going to stick you with the shipping to get it to me. I think I already have this. That's crazy. Don't say dude, you're they don't know what they do, but they do because.
01:40:51
Speaker
You idiot. Steven, be nice. I'm going to edit it out. Also, I'm buying your book, asshole. Fuck off. Touche. Touche. I'm literally giving you money and you're calling me like a piece of shit all of a sudden. Like, okay. You're the one broadcasting my fucking address. Oh, wow. We have fun. We are friends. Tucker edited all this out. I will.
01:41:22
Speaker
Uh, if, if you want to find, oh no, Brett's not on social media these days. Forget it. Don't find Brett on social media. If you already follow him, cool. If not, don't worry about it. Um, Tucker, where can we find you on socials these days? You can find me on Instagram and YouTube at ice 909. That's I C E N I N.
01:41:38
Speaker
the number zero and the number nine. Also, of course, there's tuck mugs. I don't want to say too much about tuck mugs because like you said before, this is a very busy season for me. And what I really need to talk about as far as tuck mugs go is I need guest mugs, you guys. Look, it's hot outside. I'm working. I'm very rarely going to want coffee or soup. So I need your mugs. I need them.
01:42:06
Speaker
So this is an emergency call out to all Tuckmugs followers. Send me your mugs. Any mug. Send me a picture. Tell me what it means to you or the origin or both. And tell me what's in it. It's so simple. It's so easy.
01:42:27
Speaker
And you could keep a wholesome, non-toxic community alive. You share your mugs. Oh yeah. Find some friends. We can all be friends. Let's all be friends. Let's all be friends. And share mugs. Friends are cool. Mug sharing. Yeah. Mugs are so harmless. What could you possibly do with a mug that would not be rad? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't think you could even hurt anybody with a mug. I guess you could if you really tried, but you have to try really hard to hurt somebody with a mug, I feel like.
01:42:57
Speaker
I mean, it depends on how, with what velocity you threw or bashed someone in the head with it. That's true. And also what the contents were and how hot they were. You could throw like a mug of piping hot coffee on someone. I'm just saying generally. Like Judge Rifold at the end of Fast Times at Ridgemont High with the coffee pot. And at the end of the Clerks animated series episode, he does the same thing. Yeah, they do the, they do the homage.
01:43:26
Speaker
He's works at the quick stuff. Oh, man. Oh, good times. Best thing Kevin Smith has ever done. And that's not an insult either. I'm just saying Clerks animated series is just that fucking good. Yeah, so good. Anyway, yeah, that's my socials. I'm I'm really trying to listen to records, you guys, but I had to loan my P.A. out to the campground and I use my P.A. as a high five.
01:43:55
Speaker
and fuck what you heard, it sounds really great. But I don't have my PA right now, so I can't continue my alphabetical record listen through at the moment. But soon, I might, in the next couple nights, I might listen to a record if I have a chance to on my headphones, since I don't have my PA.
01:44:19
Speaker
And that's it. That's me. That's my socials. And speaking of Kevin Smith, apparently he at some point he joked with someone about what was it, suing Tim Burton because the ending or part of the Jay and Silent Bob comic.
01:44:39
Speaker
book had like a ape Abraham Lincoln in it. Chasing Dogma. Yeah. So Chasing Dogma, it basically Jane Silent Bob Strikes Back is a rewrite of the comic book Chasing Dogma. A lot of the same things happen. He really wanted to tell the apes with that monkey. Yeah. The Planet of the Apes riff in that movie is much more flesh fleshed out and bigger in the comic book.
01:45:05
Speaker
Right. They're both good. Like, honestly, Chasing Dogma is a little weird to read after you've seen Jan Zalabov strike back. Correct. But it's still it's still really good, I think. It is fun. It is a fun read. But yeah, that is our episode on. 2001's Planet of the Aids, a movie I've been waiting to cover for like four years on this podcast, and we finally did it. We got there.
01:45:31
Speaker
Um, but yeah, that's where you can find us. And, uh, yeah, I am your host, Stephen Foxworthy for my co-host Tucker in the absent Brett Wright. Until next time, say hi to your mother for me.