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77. I Would Run To Clear My Mind - With Jason Matu Green (*E)
80 Plays4 years ago
Jason Matu Green has become an industry insider developing and producing formats for both linear network and digital brand platforms. His innovative approach to story, look and feel can be seen on such television series as T-Pain’s School of Business, Big Freedia: Queen of Bounce, and his most recent series Circles & Squares.
In this candid conversation Jason talks about how it was to care for his first wife Damina, while she was living with cancer. He also shares how running helped him clear his mind to be able to be more present as her caretaker. We talk about her death, his grief, music, family and friends. And we also talk about how he met his wife Tara and the role she also played in Damina's journey.
Follow more of Jason Matu Green's journey on his youtube channel CIRCLES & SQUARES
https://youtu.be/NVt9oe5d8R8
Contact Kendra Rinaldi to be a guest or for coaching: http//www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Grief and Gratitude Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
back to the point of what did I do for myself, I had to run. I had to go lift weights. I had to get back into my body. Like I've always been an athlete, always played sports. And so that was the time for me to do that. And immediately as I did that, thoughts became clear.
00:00:22
Speaker
Like, you know, I think the foundation and the bedrock on which my emotions ran was just solid. It was far more solid. I was calmer in situations because I was able to exert myself physically and run through all the thoughts of the day and all the emotions of the day, right, was a big deal. And also just talking to God.
00:00:49
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:13
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
Meet Jason Matthew Green
00:01:34
Speaker
So excited for you guys to join us today. I have my friend, Jason Matthew Green. He's a video content creator, producer and director. He is also a husband and a father and a friend and a musician.
00:01:51
Speaker
We were just going down memory lane. We have not seen each other in maybe 25, I don't know how many, maybe 20 years. Who knows? At least 20 probably. But I saw your wife and your kids when I was down in California a few years ago. So I got to meet Major and Parker and got to spend some time with Tara. But you were working that day, so I didn't get to see you. But I'm just so happy to have you on. So thank you, Jason, for being here.
00:02:17
Speaker
No worries, Kendra. It's so good to see you, man. You're like a light. You're a constant beacon in the world. And by the way, fans and folks, her whole family is like this. That smile, it's the same thing. All of your siblings, your mom, your dad, like all of it. I remember it so well. So good to see you. So sweet.
00:02:37
Speaker
Thank you. Same, my friend. I feel the same about you. It was the timing of me connecting with you to have you on was so interesting because you had been on my mind, and then when I messaged you, you had just released your new YouTube channel, Circles and Squares with our friend Mathai. Are you guys going to do all of them together?
00:03:03
Speaker
all of the episodes together. Yeah. So you and Mathai doing that. And then you said, hold on, wait till you see the episode I'm about to release next week. And it was exactly on the topic that we will be talking about today. So it was right in alignment with that. So anyway, oh my gosh, I'm saying too much without really going into the details of why it is you're here.
00:03:27
Speaker
So let's talk
Musical Journey and Community Building
00:03:29
Speaker
about you. Let's talk about your upbringing and let's talk about your first marriage. And that's part of the reason we're chatting today is your brief journey there. And then we'll talk about your present as well. So let's go there. Tell me, where did you grow up, Jason?
00:03:45
Speaker
So I grew up in Pasadena, California. I'm the youngest of six. And you know, it was one of those things that my dad was a Marine. So a lot of my siblings were born like all over the world, Okinawa, Hawaii, Texas.
00:04:02
Speaker
North Carolina, South Carolina, like we were just born all over the place. And so I kind of came in last after my dad had just retired. So it was a very strict military household, but a lot of love, a lot of joy, a lot of music. And it was just a great time. Like I grew up having the best time ever. So, you know, it's one of those things I think even in my creative work,
00:04:29
Speaker
A lot of it is there's a lot of humor and there's a lot of high energy involved. Like, you know, you know, Mathai is super calm until, you know, my co-producer and co-creator on Circles and Squares. And I'm like this super hype individual, like, yo, let's go. Let's go. You know, it's one of those things. It's because my whole family was like that. Like, that's my dad.
00:04:50
Speaker
Right? So, you know, it was just a lot of fun growing up in Pasadena. You know, this is like the early 80s and throughout. And yeah, it was just a wonderful experience, man.
00:05:05
Speaker
That's awesome. So you mentioned music. So I know you're a musician, but so then was music part of, was your parents musicians? Were your siblings musicians? Yeah. I mean, music is really deep in our family in terms of, you know, my grandparents all played instruments in the church. So, you know, my mother grew up in Detroit with my father going to Pastor Franklin's church, which is Aretha Franklin's father.
00:05:31
Speaker
And so our grandparents played organ and guitar in that church. So gospel music was always a big thing. And you know, like any young kid, when you're like 13, 14, 15, you're starting to find your own identity. So, you know, I was finding my identity through music at that age, but I had such a background in it that like I understood gospel.
00:05:55
Speaker
I had an affinity for jazz. I love funk and R&B. It was just something that was played in our house all the time. And with six siblings, four of them being sisters, it was a lot of Michael Jackson, a lot of Stevie Wonder, you know what I mean? A lot of that stuff was just always playing. And so growing up in that, as I became 14, 15, started to come into my teens,
00:06:25
Speaker
my music was hip-hop. I found hip-hop and it was like, ah, this is for me, right? Every generation has a thing. It's just part of that youthful expression, right? What was it about hip-hop? What was it about hip-hop that just attracted you? Was it the storytelling in hip-hop? What is it in hip-hop that was like, whoa, this is my home?
00:06:50
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think it's the same for everything and anything that people connect with. It's that it feels like it speaks your language. So at the time, you know, you know, coming up and as a teenager in like eighty seven, eighty eight, eighty nine, it really was a lot of topics, a lot of wordplay, a lot of just music.
00:07:15
Speaker
that was in the craft that I connected with because also in hip hop, there's obviously like sampling around 88, 89, right? And even before that, but during that time, a lot of the samples were things that we went to in our cabinet when we were listening to music over the weekend, right?
00:07:33
Speaker
So it wasn't odd to hear somebody like Miles Davis, or here is Stevie Wonder, and then be like, oh, they sampled this. It was just stuff that I knew. I just had a connection with. And so it's a culmination, right? It feels like you're part of the culture. And that's the greatest thing. What's your tribe when you're 15, 16? You're trying to figure all that out.
00:07:57
Speaker
And it was sort of like, ah, this is a home. I get this. It feels right. It's not for my parents. It's not for my siblings. Not for my aunts. It's specifically for me. That's what you're trying to do. You're trying to carve out a niche for yourself. And so it was all of those things that kind of just brought it where I was like, ah, OK, I found it.
00:08:19
Speaker
That's awesome. And now, are you self-taught with the instruments that you play or did you go to school to learn any instruments? Did you have any teachers for instruments or did you self-learn? Your bass, right? Are you bass? I play bass. I'm a bassist. And I went to school for a little bit. So I was in classical string in college learning the upright bass. So French bow and German bow.
00:08:47
Speaker
And as I was doing that, it was just the people that I were around were like, yo, we need a bassist in this hip hop group, which was kind of the thing that was happening, bringing live instrumentation into music at the time. So I just stopped school and kept playing and moved kind of to electric bass.
00:09:07
Speaker
You know, again, it was one of those things that it was like a home. It was the best of both worlds. I grew up, you know, summer's spinning in Detroit around music, live music, and now I'm playing it, but within the framework of the culture that I most connect to being hip-hop. So it was the perfect, it was the perfect mix. And the people that I was with, I mean, you know those guys, you know, Rae Lu and Ben. I was just going to say, I was going to ask then, how did you end up coming
00:09:37
Speaker
Yeah. How did you end up coming to meet all this other new family, new family, addition to your family? Yeah, man. That's the incredible thing about your life story as you look back, right? Because now I'm 46 and I'm thinking like, oh, when I was 22, I was going to Pasadena City College playing basketball and one of the dudes on my team
00:09:59
Speaker
is Ray Liu, who is my longtime friend now, right? And we just hung out and we connected through our joy of music. And then he was like, hey, let's go hang out with this dude. And we hung out with another guy. And the other guy knew guys who were in Justice League. And we all kind of ended up hanging out and being like, oh, like, what's this about? Like, OK. And for me, for those that know or don't know, like, all of these guys that I met that were in this group Justice League were Baha'is.
00:10:29
Speaker
So I knew nothing about the Baha'i Faith and I come in and all these guys, none of them were drinking, none of them was smoking, none of them were chasing girls. It was the funniest thing. I was like, who are these weirdos? But there was a connection and we had this friendship that was born out of the love of the music and just generally funny people. If you can make me laugh or we can go at it,
00:10:55
Speaker
I'm in it. Like, let's go. And so that's how I met these guys and eventually played a little bit for them.
00:11:03
Speaker
as their basis in a lot of their shows and a lot of the recordings. My wife, Tara Ellis, was around at that time. So we had been friends long before we even dated or got married. But we were just kind of all around each other. There was a community that was formed based on this music and this culture. And we've kind of just grown through the last 20 plus years.
00:11:27
Speaker
in that you know and the roots are just so deep now there's just so much history that it's like yeah yeah and it's not only revolving around the aspect of music but also the fact that you guys use music as a vehicle of service
00:11:44
Speaker
too. And that really because you would perform in different events and things like that that had like some kind of social action type of involvement that makes it be that you create this different bond when you are connected with somebody in that light of service.
00:12:02
Speaker
Yeah, and I didn't even realize that. I mean, I'm just like doing music and having fun and, you know, just being like, this is dope. I'm into this. But then, you know, later on you realize sort of what you're doing and the fact that it's had. And I think that takes a little bit of hindsight because when you're 20, you're doing this and you're like, yeah, I'll go do a show in Arizona or we'll go do this and that. And it's really just about you wanting to practice your craft, right?
00:12:30
Speaker
but then you start to see the effect that it has and you start having conversations and you're like oh like yo this is this is a thing like people are responding to it in ways in which i did not expect right and so that's where that unity piece comes from and it's really just vibe right we're all connected by this vibe and and the vibe is love
00:12:52
Speaker
You know, let's just distill everything and call it what it is. It's love. And so it's one of those things now that you look back and you can clearly see it, but you're in it. You're not necessarily aware. Like, I'm a pretty sharp guy, but I don't know how sharp I was at 2021. Rinaldi,
Love and Spiritual Journey with Damina
00:13:11
Speaker
you'll remember I was not that sharp. I'm not picking stuff up like that. I wasn't that sharp either. I wasn't that sharp either. I don't know if you're supposed to be, right?
00:13:23
Speaker
Well, although I was looking back at a video of me talking about when my sister died and myself videotaping, talking about my grief journey then, and I was actually shocked that as a 21-year-old, I thought in the way I did. I was like, oh, I didn't know I was deep at 21. I had really no clue. So we might have been
00:13:45
Speaker
deeper in thought and the process than we think we were. Because when you look back, you're like, oh, wait, you know, we are also kids, right? So we're also, you know, living and making probably not being too bright in the choices we make in life sometimes. But that is what it is. So let's navigate into then how then you met your first wife, Damina Damina. I was telling you, I'm like, I want to say it like I'm like, say it like that. That's she. I'm telling you.
00:14:15
Speaker
She's in the next world like, yo, Rinaldi's saying it really well. That's how she would wish she would have pronounced it. Like, she wished I would have said that all the time. Oh, yeah. So, so. Did you meet her? Yeah, it's really interesting. So again, you kind of the roots kind of in the thread throughout is that
00:14:37
Speaker
the relationship to being a Baha'i. So I was again just thinking back to the music that we were doing with all these guys that were Baha'is.
00:14:47
Speaker
I was hanging out with them but not connected in any way to their faith, you know, because I still wanted to smoke my weed and drink my drink and hang out and do things that I'm not supposed to be doing, I guess. Maybe it was the best thing that I did then. But anyways, I digress. So after seven to eight years of just being around these guys, there were a couple of events that happened that made me say, okay,
00:15:15
Speaker
What do you want your life to be? What do you want your legacy to be? How do you want to live? How do you want your heart to feel? How do you want your mind to react to situations that you're tired of dealing with, right? And so, throughout the course of those events, a friend of mine gave me a prayer, and it's the prayer for detachment. And I would say this prayer every day, and I would say it, I said it every day over the course of a week.
00:15:41
Speaker
And by week's end, the situation that I was in, I felt detached from.
00:15:46
Speaker
And I knew that that had to be a result of these prayers, and then this one prayer in particular. So I decided, okay, this is for me. And I became a Baha'i. And one of the first things I did, because part of the Baha'i identity is of being of service. So by that time, I'm 23, 24, and
00:16:14
Speaker
They're like, yo, we could really use somebody like you to go and hang out with youth in Oregon. So over one summer, I did a road trip with Zach and Mona Hearn now. It used to be Mona Koshani and Zach Hearn at the time. Yes. I interviewed Mona. I interviewed Mona.
00:16:36
Speaker
Yo, like the strongest person ever, like I'm like, she and she's tiny, but like packs a wallop. So she'd be like you're going on this trip with us so we go on a road trip, and we went up to Oregon and one of the camps we went to.
00:16:52
Speaker
Domena was there, and I mean, you know, I'm 24, and at the time she's 17, so I'm not paying any mind to her at all. Like, she was just super cool. And what I did not know, Kendra, is that while I was at this camp working with the youth group that she was in, she was like, oh man, he's really cute.
00:17:15
Speaker
And in her mind, because she obviously never said this, she was like, I'm going to marry him. She had like kind of put those roots in mentally, like he's someone I want to marry. Right. So I'm there. I hang out with her. I hang out with her brother, you know, throughout the course of the camp. And then I leave. Don't think anything of it.
00:17:37
Speaker
Three years later, I go to another camp. She's not there, but she comes at the tell end of it and is like, hey, how are you doing? I was like, oh, what's going on? We exchange information. And next thing I know, we're emailing. And it just, you know, things blossom. They turn into something, right?
00:18:00
Speaker
you may not be expecting it. And then you're like, oh, this is interesting. Let me dust this off and inspect this. Let's look at this a little deeper and investigate it, right? And it just blossomed into a wonderful friendship and to a romance.
00:18:17
Speaker
And we were living in two totally different environments. She was in Portland, Oregon. And I'm here in LA. And so we would just hang out once in a while. I'd fly up to Portland for a weekend, or she'd come down to LA. And it was sort of that for maybe two years, I think it was, right? Oh, wow. And then she transferred to a college in Ohio. She went to Antioch in Yellow Springs, Ohio.
00:18:47
Speaker
And I think that was the part of our relationship where we were like, OK, are we going to do this or not do this? And she spent a year in Ohio at Antioch and then was like, I want to do this. And I was like, I want to do this, too. How interesting. And so she came back. This is like the meaning, the relationship. The relationship, yeah. Jason, sorry. I know that there's an echo, the relationship. Yeah, no worries. No worries.
00:19:16
Speaker
Shortly after that, she came to LA and we got married really quickly. You're like, because what are you going to do? You're going to like, oh, we're going to date forever. I'm not into any of that, right? Like, no, if we're going to do this, we're going to do this. And she is very much that same kind of person. And we got married. It's amazing. Got married in my parents' home, a small wedding.
00:19:45
Speaker
My mom, my dad, her mom, her dad, one of her brothers, all my siblings, except one of them, which was still living in DC. And it was the sweetest, smallest little wedding that we could have ever had. It was the best thing. And we took off.
00:20:10
Speaker
You start your life. You start going down a path. So then you have no idea what's going to happen. You just go down the path. What it's going to lead. Yeah. But the fact that you had the family support and, you know, unit supporting you in this marriage already, you know, start you started off in the right way. Did you guys then decide to live in California or where in the L.A. area or where did you live as a married couple since you had just been in Ohio? Like where did or and she was from Portland. Where did you live? I mean, I'm a kid.
00:20:40
Speaker
I'm not going anywhere, sorry. Like, I'm like, why am I gonna leave LA to go to Portland and get rained on all the time? That makes no sense for me, people.
00:20:51
Speaker
I am a tropical person, Kendra. We are tropical people. We want no part of the cold. I'm definitely not moving to Ohio. I was like, maybe New York City, but I was like, there's nothing in New York for me and the winters. Nah, I'm good. So, you know, we settled on LA and we lived literally, you know, like Hollywood, which is, you know,
00:21:15
Speaker
It was sort of like East Hollywood, so Los Feliz, Silver Lake community, we lived there, and then moved after maybe a year there, two years there, to Pasadena, back to kind of like South Pasadena. Back where you grew up. Kind of back where we grew up, yeah, where I grew up.
00:21:36
Speaker
which was, you know, it's when you move as someone who's single and you're like, I'm just gonna pick up and I'm moving to another neighborhood. It's different when you're married and you do that, right? So we just kind of like, where do we wanna go? And I'm always about like,
00:21:54
Speaker
I want to be near the city, but I would like to have space. I want quiet at night. You know what I mean? Like, I want some kind of piece of me that can step away from the madness when I want to. And, you know, Pasadena is definitely that in certain pockets of the neighborhoods. Right. So that's kind of where we planted for a long time before we moved into Highland Park.
00:22:23
Speaker
OK. And so I liked what you said about the needing the I like what you said about the needing that quiet because it says a lot about you, too, because it means that you are OK with sitting in your thoughts and your emotions, too.
Facing Glioblastoma Together
00:22:37
Speaker
I'm assuming that by just what you just said of being, you know, away from all the hustle and bustle and retreating and kind of being able to to, you know, think and be and and meditate per se or so. I like that visual.
00:22:53
Speaker
So, how far into then your marriage was the, like when did her illness, when was her diagnosis and when did that, how old was she when she was diagnosed? Let's go. So, you know, we were living in Highland Park and I would say, you know, that would be probably year three into the marriage. Which, you know, that's putting her at like 26.
00:23:23
Speaker
So young. So her diagnosis was brain cancer? It was brain cancer. It's glioblastoma. So tumors in the brain. And it was really crazy because at the time we were living in Highland Park and she was going to UCLA to finish her studies. And one day
00:23:45
Speaker
She's like, all right, I'm off to school. And where we lived, we lived on a raised platform where we could see down into the street. So we were kind of on the hill. And I noticed that she went to her car, and then she was just sitting there in the car. And then I walked away, and 20 minutes later, I walked back to the window, and her car is still there running.
00:24:05
Speaker
And I was like, huh, she must be on the phone. Maybe she's talking to her mom or dad and she's just on the phone before she starts driving. And a few minutes later, she walks back up to the house and she was like, that was really strange. She was like, I don't know what's going on, but I felt the car lift and levitate like it came off the ground 10 feet and floated there and then crashed back down.
00:24:32
Speaker
And I was like, what? And she was like, yeah. She's like, I don't know what's going on. And then she also kind of explained it that the car was floating and then it was kind of swaying back and forth. And like this kind of light oscillation where it was just moving back and forth and then would crash down again.
00:24:50
Speaker
And she immediately knew something wasn't right. It wasn't like, oh, I didn't eat today. It's not anything like, oh, my blood pressure. It wasn't anything like that. I think she immediately knew there was something really not right happening.
00:25:06
Speaker
She was so in tune with her body. Yeah. And I mean, I think the experience that she had that first time was so visceral that she could not explain it away. Like, you know, if you've had something visceral happen to you, there's no like if ands or buts, it kind of is what it is. And either you know,
00:25:29
Speaker
you lean into it and actually try to figure out what's happening, or you run, right? And she was not that person. She immediately got on the phone, made an appointment the next day. The next day, we go in for an MRI. And because she was a student, she could do it at UCLA, went there, got it done. And later that day, one of the school
00:25:59
Speaker
Doctors was like, hey, we want you to go to this clinic. We've moved all of your MRI scans and files to this clinic. We want you to meet with this doctor. And we immediately knew like that wasn't good. There hadn't been a diagnosis given, but we were like, that's not good.
00:26:18
Speaker
Um, so we go to see the Sinai and this doctor proceeds to sit down and tell us that she has massive tumors throughout her brain. Um, and before they get any further entrenched into the brain tissue that, um, we need to have a craniotomy done immediately.
00:26:43
Speaker
And so within the course of like finding out to going into Cedars for the craniotomy was like 72 hours. And it all kind of happened right around her birthday. So she literally had a birthday party the day before she went in to get her craniotomy, which, you know,
00:27:07
Speaker
I think for me and a lot of the story that I tell as now a content creator and producer on the television side is really like the story that I know. So you know even as I'm telling this I'm thinking like
00:27:22
Speaker
You know, I felt so disconnected from my body, so disconnected from reality that I remember us having this party and our family was over and friends were over. And I was like, why are we doing this again? And it wasn't like, for me, it was for her. It was for Domena that we did that party. She wanted to do that, which was exactly what she wanted to do. But I was so disconnected and thrown
00:27:52
Speaker
you know, all over the place. I was like, what is happening here? I was processing, right? And so we go in, we get the craniotomy done. And, you know,
00:28:09
Speaker
You go through a lot of different thoughts. I think the clearest thing I remember about her getting the craniotomy is that we were at Cedars. And while we were there, I was looking out the window. And as I was looking out the window onto the street, you see the hustle and bustle, and you see people that are just moving.
00:28:35
Speaker
Things aren't stopping because you want them to stop. They keep moving. And as my eye kind of scanned and started to focus, I saw something. I saw, you know, there was this guy who was, you know, for lack of a better term, a bum, like he was a dare. You could see him stumbling, like he was clearly intoxicated. And at that moment I was like, why doesn't he have brain cancer? Why is it demeanor?
00:29:05
Speaker
And that was the first thought of like, she shouldn't be having this. Like this dude is out there hanging out, doing nothing, throwing caution to the wind, yet this incredibly intelligent, thoughtful individual who at the time, you know, if you put demeanor side by side with someone who's this drunk derelict, I'm like, she could be giving so much more to society, right? So those are kind of the first lessons in like,
00:29:34
Speaker
looking at what's happening and as you make these judgment calls those judgments on other people or on the situation start to bend or twist you like my father always had this incredible thing he would say to us he would say as the twig grows he would say as the as the twig grows
00:29:56
Speaker
As a twig is bent, so grows the tree. So what he would say is, as the twig is bent, so grows the tree. Meaning that you're growing out of the ground. And as you have these bends and shifts and knots throughout your life, you may not be a straight up and down tree. You're going to be crooked. There's going to be things that change and move you from side to side and change your course or your trajectory in life.
00:30:27
Speaker
And so there was some bending that was happening with me. And I would say early on, probably not in the most positive way. Definitely very angry. Definitely was like, you know, and excuse me for saying this, but a lot of her friends, I was like, where the fuck are her friends? People kind of just disappeared all of a sudden.
00:30:52
Speaker
And me being the person I am, I'm not about someone half in and half out. And so there was a lot of that feeling. She had the craniotomy. She came out, immediately had to start doing radiation therapy, immediately had to go on this crazy cocktail of dexamethasone, which is a steroid.
00:31:20
Speaker
she gained probably 40, 50 pounds because it would make her eat, which is a good thing. We wanted her to kind of like build up her body, but the steroid itself just made her absolutely crazy, right? She would just, she would escalate in terms of emotions, you know, and super volatile. And so, you know, you're just going through that first part of it, you know, was incredibly taxing
00:31:48
Speaker
mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically. But, you know, you come to find out like that's only one part of the process, right? You know, again, hindsight.
00:32:02
Speaker
No, go ahead, please. Go ahead. Say, finish your thought. No, finish hindsight. Go ahead, finish your thoughts. Sorry, it's because we're overlapping. There's like a switch, a slight delay. So when I talk to you, it's kind of like I'm interrupting you. So hindsight, go ahead. Say that part. I think in hindsight, what I have realized is that that was just the beginning.
00:32:22
Speaker
Right. Cause you're in it and you think like, Oh man, this is, this is it. Right. I mean, we're sitting at Cedars and she's having surgery on her brain and the slightest miscalculation could be the end of
Coping Mechanisms: Running and Spirituality
00:32:37
Speaker
her.
00:32:38
Speaker
And so you feel like this is it. But in hindsight, I look now at the story and I'm like, that was just the beginning, right? You know, when you're saying all this, I'm thinking of these two young people going through something so hard, right? Here's you're starting your life, you're as a married couple, three years into your marriage, and then you're having to have this major test
00:33:06
Speaker
not only in your relationship, but in because of course, you know, like you said, the medication would affect how she would react and so forth, but also just in your own relationship to yourself and your creator and everything and your thoughts and your beliefs, right? Big test. So question being, what did you do in order to
00:33:29
Speaker
be able to keep yourself in a way that you're still able to care for her, but also caring for yourself. What did you do to take care of Jason during that time as you were being a caretaker to her? Early on, I didn't do anything.
00:33:50
Speaker
And what happened was the pressure, and I don't know if you have experienced this, but I assume people listening to this who have gone through a similar situation will understand this. The pressure and the stress was so immense that there were a lot of times where I felt like, oh, I'm going to die. I'm going to have a heart attack.
00:34:15
Speaker
I'm gonna have a stroke, I'm gonna have an aneurysm. The pressure, I've never felt pressure so great to the point where I was like, oh, this is going to kill me. And what I immediately did is I would just run, whether at a gym or on the street, put my sneakers on, and I would just run.
00:34:44
Speaker
And when I was running and jogging, you know, it was sort of like running away from my problems. In that moment, I was able to just run and exert every emotion, every ounce of myself physically until I was just completely drained. I would just run and run and run. And a lot of times I would go to the gym and, you know,
00:35:14
Speaker
you know, we, I would, you know, kind of get Domena ready for bed. And at some point, you know, her family being her parents came down and her dad would come and stay with us and her mom. And like, I'd be like, you guys good? And I would get up and go run at like 10 o'clock at night and I would go to the gym and I would run on that treadmill to like one in the morning.
00:35:38
Speaker
And then I'd come back and just sleep. And that was my way of expending all of the grief, all of the anger, all of the hurt, all of the fear. Because you know, you're not only dealing with the fear of your loved one being sick, but you're dealing with bills.
00:35:56
Speaker
you know, doctors, medications, nurses, you know, there's sort of this thing that I think is also not told about, you know, people who are caregivers. And I felt like it was so particularly for me as a young black man, was that, you know, I would have to advocate for demeanor in situations where they would kind of just want to like,
00:36:18
Speaker
be like, we're going to do this. And it'd be like, yo, hold up. What is this? They would have to explain it to me. And in their explanation, I think they felt like, why am I talking to this Black dude about this? Right? But I had to be that advocate. So you felt racism. You felt racism even in that. You felt racism in that being an advocate for your wife. I'll do what you said. It was a redhead, a redhead, white, tall, white woman. Yeah, like the fairest skin of fairest, right?
00:36:48
Speaker
And so, yeah, of course, because, you know, it's, you know, racism is not a thing in which you're like, I hate that person because they are black, or whatever race. It really is about the education, the misnomers, the things that you think
00:37:05
Speaker
are the person that have no bit of truth to it. So me asking or advocating or disagreeing or asking for second opinions to them was like, you don't have the right to do this. And in fact, you probably wouldn't even know what we were saying if we explained it to you anyways.
00:37:29
Speaker
which I had to quickly shut down all the time. And so I was not liked, but that was okay. It wasn't about that. But, you know, back to the point of what did I do for myself? I had to run. I had to go lift weights. I had to get back into my body. Like I've always been an athlete, always played sports. And so,
00:37:53
Speaker
That was the time for me to do that. And immediately as I did that, thoughts became clear. I think the foundation and the bedrock on which my emotions ran was just solid. It was far more solid. I was calmer in situations because I was able to exert myself physically and run through all the thoughts of the day and all the emotions of the day.
00:38:20
Speaker
was a big deal, and also just talking to God. I think you can say prayers. You can read text from whatever discipline. But at some point, the conversation, when it comes to spirituality, is just heart to heart. So I spent a lot of time just talking to God. And of course, in the family I grew up in, that's what we did.
00:38:44
Speaker
talked to God all the time. There was that access. So a lot of the things that were happening with the Mina were immediately making me fall back on the early education, the early spiritual education I got in the household.
00:39:00
Speaker
where I was just talking to God, talking to anyone that would listen in the spiritual realm. I remember, I think, asking my Aunt Betty, who I grew up with who had passed years before that, like, you know, Aunt Betty, what am I supposed to do? How am I to react in these situations? And not that she spoke to me, but what was really dope about that is, you know, my Aunt Betty and all my family were really like,
00:39:31
Speaker
straightforward, hardworking, honest people from Detroit who all worked in the factories. And my Aunt Betty, one of her favorite things was smoking menthol Benson and hedges cigarettes and drinking Crown Royal. So when I would have these conversations with her,
00:39:50
Speaker
My eight-year-old mind would see her smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, being like, baby, it's going to be okay. You're fine. Like, we're here with you. Like, it's, you know, it's those things that you fall back on that, again, in hindsight, you're like, that is really wild. Like, yo, like,
00:40:07
Speaker
But that's, you know, that's where you draw strength from. That's, you know, who's to say where you draw strength from. Right. And so it was these characters and these individuals that I just, I would, I would talk to all the time and I would just ask God all the time, like, help me just for today. You know, you tell yourself a lot, like maintain, just maintain. And I would go back to that of just being like, God, I don't know what I'm doing.
00:40:36
Speaker
Father, I have no idea what I'm doing. Make the way. I can't do it. That is just so. That's so perfect. Just that that submission right to his will at some point coming from having started with the aspect of like why her to then the really like submitting submissiveness to his will and just guiding you in that process.
00:41:03
Speaker
When you're saying the aspect of exercise, how that was really your therapy, people so much think that exercise is about the body a lot of times in this culture. Like we don't realize how big of a role it plays in our emotional, mental, and spiritual state as well, and how important that is. And so for you, having maintained that strength and so forth, and what I saw in the video of forgiveness on YouTube that you did with Mathai,
00:41:31
Speaker
because in that, and I hope people go and I'll put it in the show notes so people can see that video. You talk about how much your strength and your height and everything played a part in you being a Damina as a caregiver. So tell us how tall are you, how tall is Damina and how, because how that role of your strength, physical strength played a part in your caretaking.
00:41:55
Speaker
Well, you know, Domina was six feet. And, you know, all my sisters are like five, 11, five, 10, fairly tall women. And, you know, Domina was six feet and I'm six, five. So, you know, you know.
00:42:12
Speaker
relatively speaking, I'm tall and she was tall. And so, you know, again, exercising, although I did not realize it would have that effect, it did help later on as she became more
00:42:31
Speaker
unable to walk and yeah, and just, you know, I mean, she just lost a lot of motor function at the end, being walking and speech. And so I many times would have to pick her up or, you know, at one point when we knew that none of the therapies were working and we started hospice care, there was a day in particular where all of the hospice equipment was coming into the house. So it was like, you know,
00:43:00
Speaker
oxygen, a bed so that she could sit up.
00:43:06
Speaker
all of these just different amenities to kind of help in that caregiving. And a lot of times I would just have to pick her up. Like I would just have to lift her up so that we could, you know, change a room around or change the sheets. And, you know, and there were things obviously, you know, nurses would come in and they would help. But, you know, it just helped me to be in great physical shape at the time to just
00:43:31
Speaker
like no I got this and just because sometimes you just have to like that's another part of this thing right you just have to lean into it.
00:43:40
Speaker
there's no like half in or half out. So if you move, move with speed and agile, and I would just be like, oh, I'm gathering up, I'll just pick her up. Or if we're doing something, like let's go, we're going to the pharmacy, like it's, you become very disciplined in terms of like, what's happening with your time, because you don't have time to really like sit around and be like, oh, should we do this? Or should we do that? Well, we'll wait till the nurses come like, there's no waiting, you just do it. So unbeknownst to me,
00:44:08
Speaker
Being in good shape and just exercising was the best part of what I could have been as a caretaker in a lot of ways. Just physically being there for her was a big deal. Because she didn't want to be trapped in the house, so we'd go for a car ride. And I have to put her into the car or help her out of the car. It's all of those things that definitely played a role, for sure, for sure.
00:44:37
Speaker
Hmm. Yes, yes. Now this journey of her diagnosis till her death, how long was that journey?
Caregiving as a Divine Task
00:44:46
Speaker
Um, two and a half years, somewhere's around there. Okay. So, you know, yeah, yeah.
00:44:58
Speaker
two and a half years. Now, what were then some of the things that you did then after her death in terms of your grief? Like what helped you then? You've told us what helped you and your grief journey as a caregiver was exercise and you know, prayer and talking. What were some of the tools you use then for your grief journey after Damina's passing? Oh, yeah.
00:45:28
Speaker
I think I can best explain that question by kind of touching on a moment. And I talk about this in circles and squares, but at the very end, she just had no motor functions in terms of being able to walk.
00:45:57
Speaker
or stand or really sit up. And so, you know, it was always a thing of like what she needed versus what I thought was right. At the end, it doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong, it's really about what they need. So, you know, she would be like, I want shrimp cocktail.
00:46:28
Speaker
And I'd be like, bet, I'm going to go get you shrimp cocktail. Like it, it wasn't something that was supposed to be in her diet or, you know, but it does that matter. It does not matter. A lick. One of those things was that, you know, at the end, uh, the nurses were sort of like, well, Domena, you can wear these diapers so that you don't have to get up in the middle of the night and go to the bathroom. And Domena being who Domena is, it's like, Hey,
00:46:57
Speaker
I want no part of a diaper." And she was like, Jason, you're going to get me up and you're going to take me to the bathroom. And of course I am. Absolutely. And she had the same ritual, like I'm sure we all do. Three in the morning, he has to get up and go pee. And we would do that every night at the end. And one night in particular,
00:47:25
Speaker
I think I had kind of just reached the end of my line or what I thought was the end of my line. I was so physically mentally tired, emotionally drained, tired of supporting others, because there's a lot of casualties in one person's death.
00:47:53
Speaker
And you end up sometimes being there for more people than you need to be there for. And I was getting her up to go to the restroom. And I would have to lock my arms under her shoulders and under her arms to kind of lift her up and walk her to the bathroom, which is a strenuous task.
00:48:24
Speaker
And in that process of taking her to the restroom that night, as I was walking her back to the bed, I had this divine blessing of what it was all about. As clear as a voice could be, I was told, you are supposed to be doing this.
00:48:54
Speaker
This is not only a task for someone who is a husband, but it is a divine task that you are able to serve this woman. There's no glory in it. There's no
00:49:18
Speaker
There's no elevation of oneself. It is a service. You are supposed to be doing this. And that message for me was so clear and so loud that I immediately thanked God. I remember just saying like, thank you, like thank you father and balling. She didn't know I was crying, but I was balling.
00:49:46
Speaker
because I had realized that what I was doing was a divine gift.
Healing After Loss
00:49:54
Speaker
My service was a gift to me that I could give to her. And so after she passed, I tried to remember the idea of the gift and I knew that
00:50:15
Speaker
There was no quick and easy solve. There was no piece of it that would have set everything straight or right. But I always, to this day, go back to the idea of the gift. You've been called upon to do something. And I take that very literally in my life to this day. If you're called to do something, listen to that voice. That voice is there for a reason.
00:50:46
Speaker
This was not a mistake. You are not a mistake. She was not a mistake. What has happened, although tragic, is not a mistake. Now you get up and you serve. You get up and you activate.
00:51:07
Speaker
Again, all of those things, you know, I understand are divine blessings in terms of even being able to recognize that calling. And then I go back even further and I think like my whole life was preparing me for this moment. There's no accident that my father was a Marine for 18 and a half years. And when we did something in our house, we had to do it right. We did it thoroughly. There was no half stepping.
00:51:38
Speaker
It wasn't so that you could gain more money or be smarter or be physically more intimidating. It was so that you could serve in this moment. That alleviated all of the problems. Problems afterwards being, do I stay here? Do I continue to live here?
00:52:05
Speaker
Do I need to keep the same friends that I've always had? Do I need to talk to people at all? Why am I talking to this person? This person doesn't understand me. In fact, why am I having small talk? I hate fucking small talk. Why am I doing this small talk thing? Why do I feel like I have to show up at this party at 9 p.m.? You know what, maybe I'll get there when I get there. All of those things had to play a role in my healing. I had to question those things.
00:52:32
Speaker
I had to go in and be like, what is really important? Is this important? Is it important that I go to this party? No, which is kind of always a thing. I think if you ask any of my friends, I would go to a party and then they'd be like, where's Jay? 10 minutes in and I would be out. I would just jump on a bus or a train because I didn't want to be there. And I think even more so after all of that, it was just like, what is important?
00:52:59
Speaker
What do I want this to look like? I'm 36 at the time. What do I want this to look like? The rest of my life. I would ask all of these questions. And that's the healing part. I had to go in. I had to call out my bad feelings.
00:53:22
Speaker
behavior. I had to call out my good behavior. I had to call out the things that people thought I should be doing versus what I needed to do. You know, I stayed in the apartment that we lived in when Domena passed for about another year. And most of that time in that year was me by myself in that apartment.
00:53:46
Speaker
like people would wanna come by and visit, all out of love, obviously, and all out of support, but I just didn't wanna see anyone, which was okay, and I needed that. And then there was a moment when I realized I needed something else, but all of those things took me just asking myself the questions, simple questions. At one point, I realized that
00:54:14
Speaker
I had to do two things every day because after she passed, I decided not to work. Fortunately, we had savings where I didn't work for nine months after she passed. And I realized like, okay, it's easy for you to stay in the house and not get dressed, not shower, not shave.
00:54:42
Speaker
for weeks at a time. So what you're going to do, Jason, is every day you're going to get up, you're going to shave, you're going to shower, you're going to get dressed, and at some point you're going to go outside. Even if it's to the backyard, go outside.
00:55:04
Speaker
Those are things that you kind of have to start mandating for yourself. That's part of that healing process that I don't think anyone can speak to for you. You kind of have to figure that out. And I definitely went to therapy. I definitely went to, you know, I tried doing some like, you know, grief counseling in terms of like sitting with a group of people to talk out their grief with family members who had passed. You know, it wasn't for me. That was not for me.
00:55:33
Speaker
But I knew like if I shaved and shower and got dressed and went out, even if I walked down the block to the taco stand, do that. And that immediately
00:55:48
Speaker
not only helped in the healing, but it immediately informed me of the person I wanted to be. It informed me the idea of the life I wanted to live moving forward, the craft that I wanted to perfect and practice, the individuals that I wanted to connect with or that I did not want to connect with.
00:56:12
Speaker
became really apparent and have really shaped who I've become since then. I believe for the better, but
00:56:23
Speaker
my healing is mine. And I just, I continue to say that because I want people to understand like, I don't care who tells you, I don't care if it's Oprah and Dr. Phil having a one-on-one with you. It's yours. This is yours. These decisions, these feelings, these emotions, the way you move through the world during before and after are yours.
00:56:47
Speaker
People may have some kind of insight, but at the end, they have no idea what you are feeling, thinking, or dealing with. So it's yours. And in that, for me, there's a lot of freedom.
00:57:06
Speaker
If I have to do something that someone wants me to do, I have no other choice but to do it. And if I make the choice on what I want it to be, that is a vastly greater freedom for me than not having that. Some people may find that like, you know, like, oh, the burden of like, just tell me what to do. I think some people just want you to tell them what to do.
00:57:31
Speaker
I didn't want any part of that. And that was a big piece of this. And that was the blessing of the healing.
00:57:40
Speaker
I know who I am. That's so beautiful. Now you, because of that journey, because of that journey, you discovered who you were. And something struck me when you were saying how you had to come back again to thinking what was important and what kind of legacy you wanted to have then. It reminded me of even just that choice and thought process you had had some years than before when you chose to lead a path as a Baha'i in a Baha'i life.
00:58:05
Speaker
you had similar questions then in terms of your life then as what was happening then in this moment after your wife died like these like aha kind of moments as Oprah you essentially mentioned Oprah aha kind of moments of like well okay like what is it that
00:58:21
Speaker
How is it that I'm going to leave my life? What do I want to leave behind? That's just amazing. You said two things that you did. You said that get up, shave, shower, and go outside. Was there another part of that equation, or were these all in the same one? Was that another thing? It was really just that thing. I think that was the baby step, because I was just in the house a lot. Move. Just moving. Yeah.
00:58:51
Speaker
you know, laying on my floor in our apartment in Highland Park. It was beautiful wood floors. And, you know, Mathai and my good friend Juan came over and they were like knocking at the bottom gate. And like, Jason, and I just was laying on the floor. I was like, I'm not getting up off the floor. I'm gonna lay here. And they were just persistent.
00:59:21
Speaker
and made me get up. They made me get up off the ground. And when they walked into the apartment, they were like, how are you doing? Because I clearly looked disheveled. I'm a super neat person. I'm very clean. The house, I'm sure, was in disarray, which for anyone that knows me is like, that's not Jay.
00:59:46
Speaker
And I think that's kind of the baby step when I realized, get up, shave, shower, get dressed, go outside. Just do that. I remember how hard it was to shave. I didn't want to shave.
01:00:01
Speaker
I didn't want to brush my teeth, I didn't want to shower, I didn't want to get dressed. And so that was me forcing myself to do it. It's almost like you're out of shape physically and you get on that treadmill or you lift that way and you're like, this is the worst thing I could possibly be doing for myself. When in fact it might be the best thing, right? And it was those small steps. It's just like, go outside. Because I think if I would have not gone outside, fear would have taken over.
01:00:34
Speaker
And I say fear because your home then becomes a bubble. I think we're living in a time right now where we're having to live in a bubble. Right now, yeah. Right now, right? And it's a forced bubble. And that felt like a forced bubble that was not, get out. Don't live in fear of like, because again, after all of that happened, I was like, I'm going to die. I'm sure I'm going to die. I remember going to sing a doctor right after.
01:01:01
Speaker
maybe a month or so after she passed. I assumed that I had high blood pressure and all kinds of things was going on. And he was like, you're in great shape. He's like, you can gain a pound or two, but you're in great shape. And it shocked me to hear that.
01:01:18
Speaker
Yeah, you have like hypochondriac. You have like hypochondriac. A hundred percent. I was definitely, you know, I was so much here. It is. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, you had experienced the trauma, you know. Yeah. And you, you assume like, okay, well, that's it. I did that. Okay. It's my turn, which now I understand why a lot of spouses pass after their loved one passes.
01:01:42
Speaker
because they're sort of like, okay, it's done. And they kind of like move all their chips to the center of the table and they're just kind of finished. And so I kind of had to go through that. And part of that was just go outside, experience life again. A really, you know, a really beloved friend of mine by the name of Gideon, we went out one night and we went to the movies, just me, him and I,
01:02:09
Speaker
And he was like, I want you just to remember something, Jay. He was like, just remember that don't feel like you have to do anything, but also remember that you are now coming back into life. So when you come back into this life, you're being like, oh, velvet. I remember what velvet feels like. Oh, right, right, right.
01:02:37
Speaker
silk, okay, okay, or corduroy. He's like, you just, you're kind of like filling these fabrics and just remembering what it feels like all over again and not to rush that process. And I was like, that was probably one of the greatest things that could have been said to me at the time because, you know,
01:03:00
Speaker
you sometimes feel like, okay, I have to like jump back into life or jump back into society or the rules of how to move in this life where, oh, I got to start making money again, or, and he just gave me again, the freedom and gave me in a way, the permission to just be like, slow down. Enjoy what's in front of you right now. Enjoy all of this and take your time.
01:03:29
Speaker
It's okay. That permission was huge for me at the time. I needed that desperately.
01:03:37
Speaker
That's so awesome. Now let me ask you, had Gideon experienced grief that he had that particular perspective of saying, had he been through something hard in his life that he knew, had, you know what I mean? Somebody, it just came to him to have that. That's such a beautiful insight that he had and to share it with you. He hadn't, there had not been, at least from what I know, a passing that, you know, happened in his life, but
01:04:06
Speaker
You know, when, again, when you have the right people in your life, friends, those that are truly beloved, they see you, they know who you are. When someone knows you and loves you, they can speak to you and give wisdom that they're not aware of because of that love. He was just sharing an insight. Back to that bond. That is the bond.
01:04:34
Speaker
to that vibe, the vibe that you mentioned, we're connected by that vibe called love. And once that's there, then you're basically connecting soul to soul. So your soul is telling the other soul what it is it needs, even though the mind of the person that's communicating, they don't necessarily rationally know, again, is that love and soul connection that ends up having. That's just so profound.
01:04:58
Speaker
And that's what it is. I mean, it's funny because after the forgiveness episode came out, Gideon and I got on the phone and we're just talking about it because Gideon, we call him Gideon, his name is Alexander Gideon. But I call him Gideon. Gideon was one of the friends who came over the night to mean a past. He is one of the people who helped carry her body down.
01:05:30
Speaker
to the ambulance. And so that connection, how can you, there's no faking, there's no sort of like translucent, transparent sort of pseudo friendship. It's you're all in. It's all in. So for him to say that afterwards, it's just, it's that bond, that vibe of love that we've been talking about.
01:06:00
Speaker
He knew exactly, his soul knew exactly the message my soul needed at that very moment.
01:06:06
Speaker
Absolutely. So perfect. That is just amazing.
New Beginnings with Tara Ellis
01:06:11
Speaker
Now let's, as we transition here, let's talk then about how then in that dynamic of support, how has your marriage now with Tara and being a dad with two kids, how's that played a part? And I know Tara also honors when it's Damina's anniversary. So they knew each other because Tara was in your circle of friends. Very well.
01:06:36
Speaker
So, how is that as now married to somebody that she herself is not a widow, you're a widower. How is that dynamic been? I mean, I should start by saying two things just sort of to give background and context.
01:06:59
Speaker
After Domena passed, my mom told me in a conversation that my mom and I always have, she told me, she was like, you're not done. You're not done loving. There's a lot of loving you still to give. You're not done. And I immediately responded with, mom, I'm done. It's over. I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore.
01:07:31
Speaker
I'm not getting married, I'm not gonna have kids. And my mom immediately stopped me and was like, I understand if you feel that way, but don't you ever give word to that again. Don't speak that. You can feel that, but don't speak it. The moment you speak it, it's the reality. That is what it is. She was like, you can feel it, but don't speak it. Hold off on that.
01:08:01
Speaker
And I took that wisdom. The second thing you should know is that Tara was living, for a minute, she was kind of traveling abroad and living in Belize. And so I hadn't seen her for a good period of time while Domina was sick. But the one thing that Domina always would have us do is play Tara's music.
01:08:29
Speaker
She loves Tara's voice. She loves the message that Tara gives. And I remember, you know, Tara did some song and D'Amino was like, I don't like that song because it's not in the spirit of who she is. Like she was very clear on like, no. She was like, no, that's not, that's not Tara. And I was like, that's interesting. But
01:08:55
Speaker
You know, there were two moments where when Domino was in the bed and had a little bit of the ability to speak, but none to walk. Tara came over, washed her hair, cut her hair, did her nails, and then sung to her. She did that.
01:09:22
Speaker
when she got back from Belize and sung to her. And then she did it again the day before Domina passed. And I did not find this out until later, much later, but that day before Domina passed, Tara was singing to her and then she started doing her nails
01:09:52
Speaker
and kind of just loving up on Demena and Tara, you know, to put Demena's heart at ease, told Demena, hey, don't worry about Jay. We're gonna take care of him. We're all gonna take care of him. We love him. We are his friends. We are his family. We are going to take care of him. And Demena stopped her
01:10:21
Speaker
and waved her off as if to say, no, no, no, no. And she pointed at Tara and said, you're gonna take care of him. And Tara was like, no, no, no, no, no, we're, no, we're gonna, we're gonna take care of Jason. Don't worry, all of us, like we're gonna take care. And she stopped her again, waved her off and was like, no, you're going to take care of Jason. And so,
01:10:50
Speaker
I mean, I didn't know that until after we were married, being Tara and I, which would make sense because the first time I asked Tara out on a date, she was like, what is your problem? Why would you ask me that? No. Looking back on it, she was fearful. She was scared because Dabrina had so clearly was like, no, you're going to take care of him.
01:11:22
Speaker
And so with that, you know, Terra is exactly where I'm supposed to be. The blessing of my life and the continual story and thread throughout my life is that God makes it so easy for me to live this life that he places me exactly where I need to be when I need to be.
01:11:51
Speaker
and that I am just submissive enough that I'll roll with it. That's been my blessing.
01:12:01
Speaker
You know what the blessing is, Jason, is the fact that you're aware of that. The fact that you're aware of that, that your word has to be in the hard times and in the good times that you know that that's exactly where you're supposed to be, that's the blessing itself. Because all of us are in that space in our life. We just have to make that awareness of knowing that we are exactly where we have to be for our own growth and spiritual growth. So what a blessing that you're aware of that.
01:12:30
Speaker
Um, go ahead. Yeah, that's, that's, I mean, cause we're just, we're hard headed. You know, we, we think we want things or, you know, and it may not be. And for me, it's always the better good. I'm blessed with the better good. I might want to do something or be something and it's like, nah, that's not for you. And then in the moment you're like, oh man, but I really want that. And then you're like,
01:13:01
Speaker
No, I guess I didn't because that was not it. That's my blessing. I don't have to fight that blessing ever. And Tara is part of that. I told my mom I wasn't going to love again, that I was not going to have kids. Before Domina passed, she had said no to that. She said no to that. I now have
01:13:30
Speaker
two wonderful kids that when I look at them, I continually say to myself, I did not think I was gonna have children. That's the blessing in having children alone for me. Saying to myself like, oh yeah, I'm not gonna have children. That's not in the cards for me. And now I look at them and I'm like, this is bananas. Two beautiful kids
01:14:01
Speaker
that I'm like, yo, what was I thinking? They're so amazing. They're the dopest kids ever. My daughter Parker, who's now eight, speaks truth to any and everyone. My son Major, who is six, has no care in the world for what society thinks he does what he wants to do, and he does it when he wants to do it.
01:14:28
Speaker
That one right there, that's the gift and the curse. Because we have to teach him like, hey, make sure you're on point with that. Make sure you're not treading on other people's liberties and loves. But when he wants it, he wants to do it, that steadfastness. Never seen anything like that before. Brilliant children, brilliant.
01:14:51
Speaker
And that's me. That's the second half of my life. That's my story. I get to tell that as part of my story. That's your legacy. And you know, it's like, it's my legacy, but also they're just doing it at a higher clip than I was ever doing it. You look at them and you're like, they're doing this so much better than I was doing it. At eight, I could not have told my father the things that Parker tells me
01:15:20
Speaker
because I did not think I had permission to speak so honestly and truthful. She just says it. Daddy, I don't like that. And will give me a reason why. Man, come on, doing that at eight as a girl,
01:15:42
Speaker
Think about her doing that as a woman at 19. Let's change the world. Go. By the way, women. She will. She is going to be part of that movement. When I see videos of her, I always comment on Tara's Instagram. I'm like, oh my gosh, I cannot wait to see this child as an adult.
01:16:03
Speaker
what she's going to do is wait for it. It's going to be like, whoa, because you can see that precautious, but that's not the word. Is that the word? Precos is in Spanish. Precos, just very. Progressive? Precos has somebody that's just a little beyond their years. Oh, yes. Or as my mom would say, this girl's been here before.
01:16:32
Speaker
Yeah, that kind of, yeah, that old type of mentality. Yeah, you see that in her way of, like you said, the way of speaking.
Love and Storytelling as Healing Forces
01:16:41
Speaker
So it's been just such an amazing journey, just even just chatting here with you the last hour and hearing all these stories and getting to know you in this other level, my friend, has been just such a joy. I'm like here, I've tried to hold back some of these tears because it's just so emotional to me.
01:17:02
Speaker
One, because I know you, but also just the journeys. And I learned so much from the people I interview because there's something else in that journey that I even learned for myself and take on. So thank you so much for sharing all this. Thank you, thank you. I mean, you know, the one thing that you assume happens is that you tell a story around death and that it becomes draining.
01:17:31
Speaker
And that can be true, but I don't think that's true in my case. And I don't think that's true for what you're doing with this platform. I think the idea of healing comes in a lot of different ways. And I think you voicing it and having a platform for it and a safe space, if you will, is just amazing, Kendra. You know? It was.
01:17:58
Speaker
It's a big deal. It's a big deal because we think no one wants to hear the story, but what we actually realize is that we all share the same story. And if I can recount part of my story that can in some way help someone else, then we just get back to exactly what we were talking about at the top of the episode, which is the vibe and that being love. If I can love you, there's a lot of different ways to love you.
01:18:28
Speaker
and this being one of them. You are loving a lot of people, Kendra, with this.
01:18:34
Speaker
That's amazing. Blessings to you. Well, I wouldn't be able to do it. Thank you and blessings to you too, because I wouldn't be able to do it if I did not have guests that agreed to be on here and sharing their journeys. Because my goal is for really, for people that are listening, if this ends up being the tool that they want to use for their grief journey to listen to these episodes, if that's their tool, that's great. Just like you said, it's a fit for whoever, just like the group
01:19:02
Speaker
group kind of therapy was not your fit for your journey. This might not be somebody else's fit, but it will be for some. And if that can be that tool for somebody in their journey to know that they're not alone, to know that somebody else has been through something similar and just listen to some of these great tips of just even just get yourself
01:19:21
Speaker
up, go out, simple things like that, that just putting one foot forward as hard as it may feel that day, just that can help your healing. So thank you. And so for Circles and Squares, search it on YouTube. Yes, Circles and Squares on YouTube. Again, it's just a chance for us to tell a story. Matthias and I
01:19:45
Speaker
via longtime writer, me, a long time in network television and producing across different digital platforms. We just came up with a concept of like, how great would it be if black men told their story and there was no kind of hype around it. We've known each other so long. We're so intermingled in our stories that, you know, we were like, they're funny.
01:20:12
Speaker
They're sad. They're all of the emotions like, you know, the spectrum of emotions we go through, but they're always authentic and artfully done. And that's kind of what we're about and what we're hoping to do. And so, yes, if you have an opportunity... They're beautiful. Circles and squares will change your life.
01:20:36
Speaker
Yes, it is. And what I can say, though, the only thing I'd change about circles and squares is that I want each episode to be a little longer, a longer. I'm like listening. And then I'm like, it's done. Yeah, that's it. No, we're gonna do episode.
01:20:57
Speaker
We have two episodes up in there like 11 minutes each, but, you know, as we've decided to move forward with this concept and build out the next five episodes, which we're in production for now, it's just the right amount. We want people to keep coming back and we want to be able to tell a story well. Like, you know, we got to sit small steps, baby. It's small steps.
01:21:21
Speaker
As you see, like this episode just us talking has been an hour and 12 minutes. So I'm like, I'm that kind of person that just wants to know everything. So when you guys do this, I'm kind of like,
01:21:40
Speaker
You're still like the same 22 year old, I swear. I love it. Just as a side note, you would ask questions that no one else would ask.
01:21:50
Speaker
Like it's funny because, you know, again, 22, 23, I remember us having conversations and you being like, so what is your mom like? And I'd be like, yo, like no one ever asked me. Like my mom was like, you, you are just very much like, let's go in, which I love. I want to have a conversation. I love having conversation. Let's get the small talk stuff out of the way. Like I don't want any part of that, but you would just go right in and like that smile and those eyes, you would just go in like,
01:22:19
Speaker
I'd be like, can she see my soul? That's so funny. I think Kendra can see my soul. That's so funny. I didn't know that I used to ask those kind of questions in my 20s. I didn't know that. So I'm glad you remember that. I guess I'm in the right platform then. Oh, your purpose as well. Yes. Yes. Yes.
01:22:41
Speaker
Thank you, my friend. Thank you. Once again, please hug Tara and the kiddos for me and a big, big hug to you. And I can't wait for people to listen to this story and Tamina's story. I keep on like, Tamina. That's dope. Do it. Just do it.
01:23:08
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
01:23:37
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.