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Trigger Happy: How Can we Use Our Triggers to Our Advantage?
67 Plays2 years ago
Triggers make us upset and uncomfortable, but can they also teach us something important about lasting happiness? In this episode, Kiley and Nan share their own experience with triggers and present the importance of not reacting to a trigger, but instead finding a way to respond from a place of healing and compassion.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Everyday Mindful Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Hi, I'm Kylie Wyn Efron. And I'm Nan Cavanaugh. And welcome to Everyday Mindful. A space for real talk on weaving the magic of mindfulness into our daily lives. Let's dig in.
Exploring the Concept of Triggers
00:00:25
Speaker
Well, hi, Nan. Hey, Kylie.
00:00:29
Speaker
Here we are. Good. It's been a week and we're talking about triggers today. This should be relaxing, chill conversation. Exactly. Well, hopefully by the end of it, we're all feeling a little bit more relaxed and chill about our triggers. So that's the goal. Hopefully it's a supportive conversation and not a triggering conversation.
Personal Experiences with Triggers
00:00:50
Speaker
When we made the decision that we were going to do an episode on triggers,
00:00:56
Speaker
I immediately started feeling triggered all the time. This happens to me all the time. When I go to prepare a yoga class, you know, we do like Dharma talks, which are the themes that you, they're like the emotional themes that you weave into the class and your teacher kind of populates, you know, tries to populate interesting, mindful statements that make you reflective or take you deeper. And so every time, especially when I first started teaching, I would plan more elaborate ones. Now I work a little bit more intuitively.
00:01:23
Speaker
But I would plan one and I would think about the theme we were going to talk about and then immediately like I would teach the class talk like I was some kind of expert. And then I would teach the gas and I would spend the entire week following it being challenged with whatever
00:01:40
Speaker
subject I taught. It was like a repetitive thing that would always happen to me. And the same thing happened with this. Like literally, you know, we started talking about doing an episode about triggers and I was like, well, you know, I don't really get triggered that much anymore. Is this just a catchphrase? I started thinking about all the, that kind of stuff. And then it was like, I got triggered in a friendship.
00:02:01
Speaker
I got triggered at work. I got triggered by my kids. Like I had, I mean, and not an exaggeration, probably more experiences with like what triggers are this week than I have in many, many years. So I'm kind of excited to like dig into it and talk about it a little
Defining and Understanding Triggers
00:02:22
Speaker
bit more. And then ironically, this morning when I went to plan my Dharma talk, I was going through like kind of old stuff I've done to see if there was something that struck my
00:02:29
Speaker
Um, like fancy and the literal page that I opened up to was this yoga philosophy. That's essentially a manner on how would you manage triggers? So yeah, exactly. So let's go on this journey, the journey of triggers.
00:02:47
Speaker
So should we start? Why don't we start with the definition? Yeah, I think it's a great place to start. You know, what a trigger is. So I think there's some more, you know, general definitions that are useful, but I found this one from a psychologist named Dr. Becky and I follow her on Instagram. She has a really
00:03:09
Speaker
really effective and powerful Instagram feed and programs that are focused around conscious parenting. And she, I feel like is, I love her because there's no blame casting within her parenting methods. They're really effective. And her definition, what she says is that triggers are stories from our past.
00:03:33
Speaker
acting themselves out in the present and that this is why we have to talk about the past so we can understand it so that they don't take the driver's seat in our current life. She basically believes that as children we learn to adapt
00:03:48
Speaker
in our early years basically so we could thrive and whatever uncomfortable we could thrive or survive whatever uncomfortable situation we were in what our current environment was but some of those adaptions that we made that created trigger points in our adult years
00:04:04
Speaker
And then as we're older, they get re-triggered. They rise to the surface. And I thought that that was the most interesting, I thought that was the most interesting definition that I had read. And I thought it also referenced a little bit what you mentioned in our last episode about beauty, this idea of the stories that we weave, our origin stories. We talked about what's our beauty origin stories, like where do we learn our lessons and our relationship to beauty.
00:04:34
Speaker
And I think that a lot of the events that we deal with in adult life that are triggering, whether that be in response to a person who we find triggering, an event, trauma, whatever it may be, they're rooted in the stories of our past and how we've been
00:04:55
Speaker
writing the wave of those stories, how we've narrated them for a very, very long time. So I thought it was, I just thought it was a really interesting way to approach it and really practical. And so what do you think? Do you
Are Triggers Helpful or Harmful?
00:05:10
Speaker
think triggers are our friend or are they our foe?
00:05:15
Speaker
It's a good question. And I think this Dr. Becky Kennedy has been, I don't know if she and my therapist are super tight because this is definitely a lot of work I've been doing in therapy over the years. And this idea that as children, we develop responses and reactions in order to exist in uncomfortable situations. And then we grow up
00:05:44
Speaker
And these are very much embedded in who we are, these reactions and responses. But we're no longer in those situations. We're living different lives. And then something pops up that is in alignment with whatever caused us to develop that reaction. And boom, you are responding in a way that's just very out of character. Or,
00:06:12
Speaker
you know, you're responding in a way that's actually in line with your character because you haven't done the work of identifying, you know, why you operate this way. And you haven't done the work of really being present in your current life and letting go of the reality that you're, you know, that you were in as a child where you developed all these responses. And I think
00:06:38
Speaker
Triggers are both friend and foe, right? Like they are very upsetting, at least for me, when they happen. And I think they are important to confront and acknowledge and identify and note. And then when doing that, they can really help you heal and shift.
00:07:02
Speaker
I agree, I agree completely. I think they can, if we allow them to be, they can be our greatest ally. And most importantly, they can be our greatest teacher. Yeah. If we allow them to be. And I think that's, you know, really the work because what happens is, is they tend to create, I mean, I think that's part of their definition is they kind of incite this intense emotional response.
00:07:29
Speaker
Perhaps most of the time emotional response, it's maybe not even completely appropriate or in relationship to what's taking place. And so I think generally what happens is we go into a place of avoidance, is that we now want to avoid whatever it was that triggered us in some form.
00:07:49
Speaker
And listen, I understand. We don't want to put ourselves in an unsafe environment. It's important to take care of our emotional well-being. But I do believe that sometimes when we do that, if we go too quickly into a state of avoidance, we miss the kernel of what we really need to explore there. We miss that portion that allows us to kind of learn and understand
00:08:10
Speaker
why this is so upsetting to us and why it has such a grip on us. And until we do explore that and look at that, it's almost impossible forever to lose the grip on you that it has. And I think sometimes it pushes us into a place of blame placing, where we blame the individual. Maybe in this case, let's talk about it from the state of an individual. Maybe there is a family member
00:08:38
Speaker
I think many of us have them. Maybe they're completely hypothetical here. Completely. Completely hypothetical here. Maybe you have a member in your family that really, really triggers you. Very rare, but let's just, you know, for point of conversation, say we do. And it is very easy to immediately start to blame them. Like they need to stop this behavior. So I stopped having this reaction.
00:09:07
Speaker
And listen, maybe even their behavior is out of line. Maybe it isn't appropriate. But what ends up happening, I think, if we go immediately into that place of blame is we miss this window, this resistance that's rising up in our body because it wants to be shaken out. It wants to be seen.
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah, it wants to be experienced so you can heal so you can move on from it.
Managing Triggers in Daily Life
00:09:35
Speaker
Yeah. And so I think that that's kind of the work is to allow yourself to somehow feel safe, but still not avoid it and still not go immediately to this place of
00:09:53
Speaker
You're wrong. You need to get away from me. This isn't okay. This isn't me. It's just this individual and their behavior.
00:10:04
Speaker
which you have no control over, you know, you have no control and you have to let, that's what I, one thing I've really learned with the people in my life that are triggering is that I can't change them. And unfortunately, you know, a lot of them don't have the, the will or the ability at this point in time to change themselves. And so just kind of letting go of,
00:10:32
Speaker
that expectation and that want to control, you know, you need to fix this. This is not right. This is not correct. Just really acknowledging like that's on them and blaming them for how they are isn't of service because it's really not your problem.
00:10:55
Speaker
you know, and I think I know for me, I'm a fixer, you know, I grew up in a household where there was a lot of walking on eggshells and kind of being ahead of someone so they weren't, you know, so there's a lot of yelling. And so it was kind of a lot of
00:11:16
Speaker
a lot of my triggers revolve around fixing a problem for people to avoid confrontation. And the reality is is that I spend a lot of time being very anxious about other people's problems and doing trying to fix and trying to help and to the detriment of my own
00:11:43
Speaker
putting my own life needs first, you know, and I don't know, I think like thinking about triggers and boundaries and I think you have to really face
00:11:57
Speaker
and understand what triggers you in order to set healthy boundaries. I think they're gonna happen. I agree. It's interesting, what you're talking about is almost like, it's like you're almost trying to prevent the people who are more easily triggered from being triggered. Yeah, because it's triggering for me when they're triggered. Exactly.
00:12:17
Speaker
And I think that's, I think that's a lesson that a lot of children is like, Oh, if I behave a certain way, well, then my parent reacts like this. So that must be wrong. Or I don't want them to be upset or I don't, I'm afraid of their response. So I will do anything I can to make sure that they stay happy or
00:12:38
Speaker
that they're not triggered in some way. And so in this weird way that, you know, the child becomes the parent in that moment. And I think that's something, I mean, I can, I can relate to that. And I think a lot of kids can, you know, a lot of people can really relate to that. Is there something that you've done like a mindfulness technique or like what method do you use to
00:13:02
Speaker
Manage your responses to manage your response to triggers. Yeah, I find walking like I find when I'm feeling triggered Going outside and even if it's just a five-minute walk down the street and back again get something about moving myself from the physical environment where the trigger happened and if the triggering happens outside just even just Walking away from it
00:13:30
Speaker
um, then let the fresh air or something about sun and I Don't know there's just something about being outside that my nervous system immediately calms down and I can think about the situation and in a new context and
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I find walking from a mindfulness practice to be really helpful. Really grounding. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like I feel like I feel like there's two aspects to.
00:14:07
Speaker
There's the in the moment because there is, I think when you are triggered by something, you need to be able to develop the ability to create some space between the stimuli and the response, right? Whatever triggers you and how you respond to that. Otherwise you just react, right? Otherwise you just react. That can be really challenging. That to me is the hardest thing to do because
00:14:33
Speaker
You can't go take a walk right in that moment, right? Maybe you can't, you're right there, you're in it. So I do think that there's moments in those things, in those particular moments where you can really, maybe you just return to your breath for a couple of minutes. Yeah, 100%. Maybe you count to 10 in your head.
00:14:49
Speaker
One of the things I read about, I thought was interesting when I was reading about triggers is that you can memorize your response. So apparently for whatever trigger there is, there's one response. There's actually a very specific response. It's like a trigger mantra. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So if you start to notice, oh, every time this happens, this is my response.
00:15:12
Speaker
you can more quickly catch it within the moment. So there's that aspect. There's the in the moment part, which I think is the hardest. But I think it's almost impossible to catch it in the moment if you don't have a practice outside of those moments where you do get to practice, right? So for you, it's walking.
00:15:31
Speaker
For me, it is, you know, we actually just taught this in my yoga class today. I talked to them about Sakshi, which is a Sanskrit term for pure awareness. It's this ability to start to watch your thoughts.
00:15:48
Speaker
without bringing immediate judgment to them, to be able to watch them with some curiosity so that, and not layering on a story or a narrative, which then just causes agitation, right? So, cause that's a big part of it. I think we layer this person does something and we're like, this person meant to do this. All caught up in this reason.
00:16:09
Speaker
this person is a narcissist, this person is this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so, but in order for you to be able to catch yourself in that moment, you have to practice it outside of the moment. So it's having some type of meditation practice. And one of the biggest things that's helped me, and we talked about this a little bit when we talked about manifestation, like the quantum manifestation technique, I use it whether I'm trying to manifest anything or not, which I guess in this case, you could say I'm trying to manifest not being triggered or not responding in the same way.
00:16:39
Speaker
But the minute I have something that's really triggering to me like that I will take time later To close my eyes and go through those same steps to like go through the step of asking myself first You know, where is the seed of it my body? What's it look like?
00:16:54
Speaker
I try to sit with that feeling a little bit. And then I ask, like, you know, what is the source of this? And then there you are, you're directed where you need to go and what the source of it is and kind of observe it and try to heal it. I try to, you know, send love to it. I try to understand the context of why I'm feeling the way I'm feeling.
00:17:15
Speaker
And then once I do that, I kind of smooth that out a little bit. So every time I do that, I get better and better at it. And then I'm able in the moment to catch myself a little bit faster.
Triggers and Childhood Influences
00:17:27
Speaker
One of my big triggers with my kids is that we're constantly running late. I'm constantly running late. I feel like I'm bending over backwards to get us out of the house on time, getting us up early. No matter what we do, we somehow feel like we're always running five minutes late.
00:17:43
Speaker
And so we'll, I'll find myself like we'll be on our way out the door. Like everything's going right. I did everything right. I got there and then boom, my son will forget something or he just needs more time in the morning. Yeah. And I'll find myself losing it. And I realized that the reason why I'm losing it on them.
00:18:02
Speaker
Of course, I don't want them to be late, but it's because I feel judged as a parent. It's because I actually feel judged that I'm the problem here. And this was a regular occurrence in my household when I was younger. But I'm getting better at understanding that in the moment. I caught myself the other morning.
00:18:24
Speaker
getting ready to happen and I was getting ready to lose my shit on my kid. Sorry, sometimes I do that. And I literally just counted to 10 in my head and I was like, why are you really getting upset right now? You're really getting upset because you're afraid, you're not afraid, your kid's getting in trouble. You think you're going to get in trouble.
00:18:40
Speaker
Yeah, you're afraid that you're being judged as a disorganized parent, you know, which has, you know, a route to my childhood that is strong. So I do think like, it's, it's there's the post reaction part, which is the hardest for sure, because it's calming yourself in the moment. And then it's like, what are those little things that we do? And I definitely had one of those weeks, we talked about this a little bit earlier, but
00:19:04
Speaker
Every time I go to teach something in a yoga class, like every time I try to weave Dharma in, I am immediately
00:19:12
Speaker
given all those lessons the following week. And the minute we started to plan this episode, all I did was get triggered all week, triggered in my friendships, triggered at work, everywhere you look, triggered in family. So I think that, I do think these things kind of rise up as lessons for us to work through, to move through. And I do believe that we can soften them, but it's finding these techniques in our time away from the triggering moments too.
00:19:41
Speaker
that help us. I agree. I think, yeah. I think, too, like going back to, you know, the being late. So one of my girls is really struggling with tardiness. And do you feel like I feel like the pandemic, like, I don't know, caused a shift for me in how I relate to productivity. And I started when when my daughter started really, you know, running late every morning.
00:20:11
Speaker
Um, I had the same feeling, you know, we have to get to school on time. We have to get to school on time. Like you can't be late. You're going to get in trouble, blah, blah, blah. And I think like we're conditioned that being punctual is essential to our, our value and worth is productive, successful people. This is not how it is in many other cultures. Um, many other cultures are much more lax about tardiness.
00:20:36
Speaker
We're actually told that if you're regularly late that you don't value other people like that's a great point right so it's really true it's really triggering when you've been conditioned to have all this crazy pressure to be on time.
00:20:53
Speaker
and then and then all of a sudden you realize who fucking cares like that's what I said I said like I was like why am I freaking out so she's gonna be late and you know what she's gonna get be late a lot and guess what she's gonna get in trouble for that at school and then maybe she won't be so late all the time
00:21:10
Speaker
But also like, you know, kids shouldn't have to wake up so early. She needs more sleep. She's struggling with that. That's the system you've created. And that the expectation is for the kids to, you know, just be exhausted and drag their asses to school every day, which it kind of is. Cause how many of us do that to go to work every day on time? Um, you know, then, then, you know, hate to say it, but fuck you school system.
00:21:36
Speaker
Like, you're going to make my kids show up this early in the morning as a teenager when she needs like 10 hours of sleep according to her doctors. That's on you. And she's going to be late because she's tired. And she feels like getting 10 more minutes of sleep is going to make a huge difference. And that's another argument.
00:21:54
Speaker
It is triggering. Actually, I like your perspective on that because it's not just about the awareness of ourself and what the source of it is, but it's also the awareness that there's an issue with the system, too, because I think about this a lot. Literally, Monday through Friday is triggering for me because trying to get the kids out of bed, trying to get them up, trying to get them to the breakfast table, trying to get them to eat the food that
00:22:18
Speaker
They need to eat. That's healthy enough. Trying to get them their supplements, to deal with the conditions, to get into the car, all the things. And then coming home and then the struggles with the homework and the struggles with everything. And I feel, feels like I am running a race from the minute I wake up until the minute I'm putting my kids to bed. And it's a stressful race. And it is a race where there is a lot of fears and concerns and triggers around, are they going to be okay in school?
00:22:45
Speaker
Are they going to be OK with their friends? And I think that a lot of it is because they are in a system that probably is too much a lot of the times. And I do think that a lot of us, after quarantine,
00:22:59
Speaker
did really renegotiate our relationship to what we are capable of, right? Of what we're physically capable of, of what we want to do.
Healing and Managing Triggers
00:23:07
Speaker
And then now I think we're all renegotiating, well, what's that new relationship? Right. Like sickness, you know? Exactly. You don't have a fever. I'm just going to give you some cold medicine, go off to school. That's how I was raised. And now I'm like, ew, you don't have a fever.
00:23:23
Speaker
You're obviously got something going on. You need to stay home. It's a rest. I don't care how many absences, you know, 10 absences a year. Like that's, yeah, that's like nothing. Yeah. Kids are exposed to so many germs. I just, I don't know. And so I think that's a valuable question. It's like when you're feeling triggered in that moment,
00:23:42
Speaker
Are you feeling triggered because of something related to your childhood, related to your specific experiences, or is it a collective trauma that you are triggered from? I think what you're getting at is it's a collective trigger. It's a collective trauma that has created a trigger that goes along with it.
00:24:01
Speaker
And we all have different energy types. We all have different energy types. We work in different ways. So what ends up happening is if a person is like super type A, super organized, super all these things, they are valued for the way they manage their time. They are valued, so they're good. So then there's that trigger, like me not fitting into that same box. Same thing with like if you're a person who is not, if you're an introvert versus an extrovert, we value extroverts.
00:24:28
Speaker
I just think that I do believe there's actually conscious trauma that we experience. Maybe it's trauma with the lowercase t, but it's still trauma and the body still experiences it as trauma and we still go through a self-worth check that we have to do every time one of those things happen. Do you think that we can ever fully heal a trigger and
00:24:54
Speaker
What's the relationship to triggers and boundaries? That's a big one. That's a big question. You can take it in parts. I don't know if we can fully heal a trigger. I think that we can adapt
00:25:14
Speaker
to manage it in a more healthy way. Like, I know for me, stress is like when I'm very stressed out, I lean on alcohol, you know? I got to help. As many of us do. Yes. And it's very much a part of our culture, right? The drinks after work and having that glass of wine with dinner and
00:25:37
Speaker
I've been really renegotiating my relationship with alcohol this year and where I learned where I've learned that as a as a response as a as a medication for stress and well because you know I'm in my mid 40s and
00:26:00
Speaker
you know, two glasses of wine where in my twenties I would feel fine the next day. Two glasses of wine. I sleep like shit. You know, it's, it's a different ball game. Like my body just doesn't, our bodies don't metabolize it. The poison. Yes, but it's a poison, you know? Um, and so just really thinking when I start getting overwhelmed and stressed out at the end of the day, not being, I know where, you know, 10 years ago, I would be like,
00:26:30
Speaker
I'm just going to have a drink and then I'll be more chilled out and I can deal with the situation. Um, now I'm like, okay, you're really stressed out. A drink is an option, but you know, it's going to make your sleep crappy. What else can you do? Like just being like, I'm going to respond differently, you know, just being, and I, that's what, I think it's just adapting your,
00:26:57
Speaker
adapting your responses and understanding where the connections, you know, the connections come from in navigating triggers. Yeah, I'd venture to say like 80% of alcohol consumption probably relates to avoidance of triggers. Yeah, I'm not. Look, I enjoy having a drink. I enjoy having a glass of wine, but I have also had to renegotiate that relationship because that did used to be my like,
00:27:22
Speaker
I would come home, I'd have my glass of wine, probably two. That was my way of like decompressing. But I also, my sleep was really suffering. I wasn't feeling good. I didn't solve any of the issues I was having. And so I had to start shifting my alcohol consumption to be
00:27:41
Speaker
in relationship to moments of joy and pleasure. Social, fun, maybe on the weekend a glass of wine to just really relax with fire. I want to savor something. I don't want to respond. I had to stop using it as like a response to something. And that really helped me. I actually, I do think
00:28:02
Speaker
I believe that triggers can be healed to the degree that we do any level of healing we do, in the sense that I think we heal layers of it. It's like the body's an onion. It keeps exposing that layer and exposing that layer. And I understand it's a cliche example, but it's an effective example.
00:28:19
Speaker
It's correct in that the body will reveal a layer of it to us. We can do that healing work. We can start to change the way we behave, change the way we act. And then that's a level of healing that happens. And then most likely another trigger will take place. Another layer of healing will rise up, but it's probably softened a little bit. And so I believe that over time it continues to loosen its grip over us to where we can heal it
00:28:47
Speaker
We can heal it to the point where it has very little hold over us. Yeah. And where we, our awareness of it is such that, you know, when it happens, you're like, Oh, okay. I see what's happening here. And you can kind of, you can quickly pivot. Um, whereas boundaries, I think, you know, triggers in and of themselves are unhealthy. They are a response. They are just unhealthy. They are fight or flight. You know, it's an adrenaline.
00:29:12
Speaker
your body believes there's a risk. They believe there is a stress. Your body responds. It is an unhealthy response. Whereas boundaries should be set to print that they should, as long as they're healthy boundaries, as long as you're not using the boundaries to push people away and to avoid a boundary is really there to put some protective measures in place and to stand up for yourself. So I think that you can set a healthy boundary for yourself. You can say, you know,
00:29:41
Speaker
I am not going to let like abusive behavior be around me. You know, I am going to not try to argue with a narcissist because you can't argue with a narcissist. That's the only way you set a boundary with them, right? Because you just don't engage. So you can start to make some choices and set some healthy boundaries up for yourself.
00:30:01
Speaker
boundaries are things I think that don't need to go away as long as they are healthy, unlike triggers that really need to be managed. They need to be dissolved. And I think there's a relationship between the two of them. I just think a boundary is the most effective way of managing something as long as you're not using it.
00:30:19
Speaker
to like push things away as long as you're not using it to avoid using it to, you know, not deal with the situation or project on to somebody else. And I think that's like the key, you know, difference. Do you think that trauma, do you think trigger always is rooted in trauma?
The Role of Past Traumas in Triggers
00:30:42
Speaker
You know, I think getting back to what we were kind of just talking about with the school system, I think like you said that, that we, I want to say yes, but I don't know if that, I think that trauma is, you know, personal trauma that has occurred within your lifetime. I think like you mentioned.
00:31:01
Speaker
uh, a collective trauma that we have all adapted to as children and built responses around like being late. Um, I think that traumas in past lives, you know, um, surface and we don't know why, like I'm kind of navigating something with one of my daughters right now and
00:31:30
Speaker
There is nothing in her current life span here on earth.
00:31:38
Speaker
that should be causing this issue that she's having and her sister doesn't have it. And they're very different people, very different people. But, you know, so in my mind, I'm like, okay, this isn't something that like we taught them because I think they both would have it if that were the case. And I really feel like it's related to
00:32:04
Speaker
past life trauma. It has to do with her body. My youngest, even as a small child, she always wanted to have her shoulders covered and was never comfortable wearing a tank top or anything. There was this need to
00:32:26
Speaker
protect her body in a way that her sister is like, you know, I could care less. And it's, you know, we grew up, we, we lived in Florida. It's hot there. It's a lot to be wearing that kind of stuff. Um, and I, I just really feel like she, something happened in the past, a trauma happened in the past life that makes her feel the need to protect her body. And, um, in a way that I don't, I just know their explanation for it. I think it's a past life trauma.
00:32:56
Speaker
Well, you are speaking my language. You're speaking my language now. You know, I mean, I do.
00:33:04
Speaker
energy healing, and I would say in the majority of people that I work with, actually hands down, I would say 60% of what people are struggling with, the emotional issues that they are having, the health issues that they are having are typically rooted in past life versus current life. I'd say about 40% I see our current life. Both always show themselves
00:33:33
Speaker
But I would say the largest wounds tend to be passed. And that's why often we can spend years and years in therapy. We can spend a lot of time reflecting on what's happening in our current life, trying to make these changes and still feel stuck. I used to have a really a dear friend of mine who, you know, had a
00:33:53
Speaker
was going through a lot emotionally, you know, it was really, really struggling and had a lot of anger, so much anger, but there was nothing in her current life that could explain for the level, the deep level of anger that permeated her. And like knowing what I know now and seeing what I see now, I think that past life experiences
00:34:21
Speaker
definitely inform our triggers. And, you know, like, so I think sometimes I guess the question was like, well, what do you do about that if you can't see your past lives? So going through once again, that quantum manifestation exercise where you're going in and asking your body, what is the reason you'll typically be led to the this of this life issues. Sometimes you will be led to it. Sometimes you'll just get a sensation or a feeling. But that is also why there are Reiki healers out there. That is why there
Triggers and Relationship Dynamics
00:34:50
Speaker
are people
00:34:51
Speaker
who have intuitive gifts that if you are comfortable with that can be very, very helpful because they can sometimes see it for you and explain it to you. And just having context, just having understanding can start the healing process, can literally change how it's in there. But I do agree with you. And so that's where also, let's say you don't feel comfortable going to a healer of any kind or you don't have the opportunity. And you don't know what that past life source is, but if you know,
00:35:20
Speaker
that you can't seem to get to the bottom of it. You can't seem to get why this is triggering you. Then focus on the responses. Focus on how you manage it when it comes up. What are the techniques you can do to just manage the responses? You know, because I think that's one way of looking at it, of doing some of that healing.
00:35:42
Speaker
you can ask and send mantras to every life you've lived, even if you can't see them. You can ask for your guides, you can ask for your support team to do that, you can ask God to do that, whatever, your angels, whatever you work with, doesn't matter, you can ask for that. And just simply by asking, you can start to receive. I think that's like where a layer of that healing happens because if not, because I agree with you, I believe that
00:36:11
Speaker
I believe the triggers are always rooted in trauma. I believe that trauma takes various forms. I think trauma can take a form in a past life, in this life. I think it could be the capital T trauma, which is like, you know, ignites post-traumatic stress. Maybe you're a war veteran. Maybe you are a victim of an assault or abuse. And then there is lowercase trauma. There is death. There is the divorce.
00:36:35
Speaker
which probably doesn't feel like a lowercase T trauma when you're going through it. There are all these micro traumas that we go through that do really bury within us and they inform our relationship with ourselves and they inform our narrative. So I do think trauma is always there. And I think that's why it's so important that we look back at our past and we'd be willing to talk about it like Dr. Becky had said in that definition, because if not,
00:37:00
Speaker
It can be really detrimental to our relationships. I read yesterday
00:37:06
Speaker
that thought this was something that was really interesting that it said that basically there is natural friction that exists in every friendship and every relationship, every partnership we have, natural friction. That's not because it's bad. It's not because you're with the wrong person. It's natural friction exists. And if there is no friction, then there is no growth, right? There's no growth in a relationship. There's no growth in a marriage and a friendship. There is friction.
00:37:34
Speaker
I had a friend who used to tell me she got divorced when we were in our late twenties and her husband was incredibly kind, incredibly nice, but they never fought. And she said she would get to a point where she would almost try to pick a fight so she could try to have some kind of interaction, some level of conflict. And she's like, you know, it sounds like that's a good thing, right? You never fight. But if there's no conflict, there's no growth.
00:38:00
Speaker
And I always thought that was the wisest thing, especially coming out of a 26 year old's mouth. But I think that's true. There's natural friction that exists in every relationship. So if we don't learn to manage our triggers, if we don't learn to understand them and reframe them, it can be exceptionally detrimental to our relationships. And I think people can find themselves
00:38:25
Speaker
in cycles of bad relationships or in cycles of just feeling like their relationship never manifests to the level that they want it to, just simply because they don't understand how to manage the, like to control the response to the stimuli that's being given to them.
00:38:40
Speaker
You know, cause to them it feels like they're being attacked, even if they're not. Right. Okay. The body feels like they're under attack, even if that person didn't mean to in any way whatsoever, you know? And I think, you know, they're thinking about the role compassion plays and managing triggers. And when you don't know why you're responding the way you're responding, you know, it's okay to have compassion for yourself in that moment. And you know, you're going to like, I just recently family member.
00:39:10
Speaker
Started raising their voice at me and yelling is very triggering for me. I'm not a yeller but I am Irish and when I get stirred up I can yell and I got really triggered. It's horrible. It's not pretty. I'm not good at it.
00:39:29
Speaker
It's probably more scary because you don't do it that often. Yeah. And it really rattles me up. And so they were yelling at me. I usually can kind of keep my cool. And, but this time I had a long, long day and I had made a big effort for this person. And so I yelled back and we yelled back and forth and I left. Um, and.
00:39:56
Speaker
I felt like shit about the whole situation because this person struggles with their mental health. They are not, I started thinking actually as preparing for this podcast about what I had said to trigger their
00:40:14
Speaker
response and I knew what I said was going to be triggering for them. It was something I was trying to phrase it in a way that wasn't going to trigger them, but it triggered them and then they triggered me and then it was this trigger shit show. And I started thinking about their childhood, why they have this trigger. And I was like, huh, you know, poor person. Like, you know, they can't,
00:40:42
Speaker
They haven't done the work they need to do to heal from something that happened in their childhood. And they carry all this anger because of it. And I knew going into that conversation that person was going to get angry with what I needed to share with them, but I needed to share it because it involved their safety and their well-being.
00:41:02
Speaker
And I knew they didn't want to hear it. And I didn't really prepare myself for the level of anger that was going to be thrown at me. And I think if I had better prepared, I would have been like, don't get triggered, Nan. Don't get triggered. Just stay calm, stay cool. You know there's going to be yelling. Don't take the bait. I took the bait. And it was hard. And it was sad. And everything's fine now. We smoothed it out. It was a moment.
00:41:33
Speaker
But it really got me thinking, and I don't think, particularly with our parents, I don't think we really, a lot of times when they are doing something, or family members, they're doing something that is triggering for us, we have to take a pause, think about why they're operating in that way.
00:41:52
Speaker
note it, mindfulness practice, note it, and then detach and just detach. Exactly. You know, and just say, Okay, that's that's you got a lot going on there. And that's yours. Yeah, not mine. Not mine. Well, you know, it's interesting when you think about compassion. One of this may seem like an interesting segue, but I think it's an
00:42:17
Speaker
probably important, you know, there's another aspect to triggers that we haven't really gotten into, but that are really prevalent and that's political triggers. It's, oh my gosh, right? Like, and, and never has it been so triggering as it has been for the last four years, right? And I, I feel that those triggers are probably going to grow exponentially over the next couple of years, especially this year.
00:42:45
Speaker
And, um, so this is something I've been thinking so much about, um, you know, cause I, in the past, especially when I was younger, especially like in my twenties and thirties, you know, I was really political person. I loved a debate. Oh my gosh. I love a debate. And, but I think that I also would shut people down often. I allowed absolutely no space for their true opinion because I was just trying to debate them.
00:43:19
Speaker
Like there was no listening taking place because I kind of felt like, well, if I'm liberal and you're conservative, well, then you're just not compassionate or you're just not this. Like I labeled things. And as I have gotten older and I was raised in a liberal bubble, I was raised in a place that is predominantly liberal. I was also raised in a different political climate where we could talk more about these things. I was raised in Berkeley, California, it's different.
00:43:34
Speaker
because I couldn't even allow the
00:43:49
Speaker
It was a political place. You talk about politics. But I was struck by it recently as I was having this conversation with somebody about politics. And I realized just how often I hadn't allowed space for a different opinion and how uncomfortable I would feel when it rose up. And then when I moved to Florida, I owned a business that I didn't feel comfortable talking about politics with anybody anymore because I did not want
00:44:17
Speaker
to get in the way of the career, the business that I had. And I was acutely aware that there was a multitude of different viewpoints. And so I kind of softened things. I still privately talked about politics within my home quite a bit within close circles, but I would feel very triggered sometimes when I would have conversations with close friends who perhaps were more conservative than I was. People who I really love and value and know their heart and they would be
00:44:45
Speaker
supporting someone where I would be like, Oh my God, like how is this possible? I don't understand. And it started to really make me realize that I was not, I was so attached to my party. I was so attached to my politics that I wasn't even allowing space for reason. It wasn't allowing space to just be open.
00:45:05
Speaker
and to hear and to understand that the person across from me probably has the same heart that I do and the same level of care for things. They just have a different perspective. And so I have been really trying to weave more compassion and reflection into my thought process on politics because I feel like the division has become so dangerous and I don't want to be a part of that.
00:45:34
Speaker
to raise my frequency above that to elevate it. It doesn't mean I don't want to be engaged in it. I just want to be very careful about how I involve myself in it and noticing when my triggers rise up so that I can figure out what's that really about so I can spend some time reflecting and really sit with it. So I can also make sure that when I am making a political decision, it is
00:45:57
Speaker
an intuitive decision to me, not just what I've decided is correct or wrong or right. And it's, um, it's something I battle with and it's really challenging. And I'm, you know, I think it's challenging for a lot of people. I think you're right. And I think having, I've been really trying the same way as, you know, um,
00:46:16
Speaker
And I'm really trying to have compassion for people who are aligned with, you know, the alt-right movement and recognizing that just seeing their humanity and understanding that they are responding to
00:46:43
Speaker
her collective trauma in a lot of ways and fear.
Political Triggers and Compassion
00:46:47
Speaker
And there are, you know, I think that's something we all have to be cognizant of is that it is triggering when you get into a political conversation with someone who is a part of that movement, but there's no way you're going to be able to connect with them and help them understand
00:47:11
Speaker
Um, understand our shared humanity. If you are allow, allow the trigger to force a reaction, right? You know, you, there are no conversation, you can't have a conversation and you know, oh, you can't talk to crazy. There's something to be said about that, you know, but also it's like, then you don't have that conversation and you, um,
00:47:40
Speaker
You move on. I don't know. It's hard though. It's hard. It's also hard too. Cause I think we're trained to trigger one another. I think, um, like your party Alliance is really trained to dislike. Yeah. To believe that one is uncompassionate or one is stupid or want, like we are, we are trained to villainize opposing viewpoints in politics and.
00:48:04
Speaker
I personally believe the only way we are going to survive on a societal level is if we stop doing that. If we're able also to shine a mirror on ourselves to reflect when a mirror is held up, to be able to acknowledge when a mistake is made, to be able, you know, to be able to see more clearly and to trust the intention behind things. So I think political and I think political triggers are going to
00:48:33
Speaker
really continue to rise in the coming years. So it's even more important. It's even more important to really like choose what frequency, what vibration do I want to hold? Like where do I want to be so that I can have
00:48:47
Speaker
Um, that's why I can avoid it once again, cause you can't avoid it, but how can I have a more compassionate and more complex conversation? Cause people are complex politics. They really are complex. And that's the problem. I think at the core of things is we want to make something black or white. Yeah. We want to decide there is a lot that exists in the shade of gray. That's important for us to understand. And that, that I think that is.
00:49:16
Speaker
in relationship to our relationships, in relationship to our children, in relationship to our work, family, and politics, to all of it. But I think it's definitely one of those trigger points that, and maybe that falls under the, well, actually I think this also relates to past lives too, because I also truly believe that people's past lives
00:49:38
Speaker
and their personal experiences with political trauma, with religious trauma will inform their responses. It will incite kind of a fear response in us that makes us want to fight for our lives. It makes us think that we have to fight for our lives. So I think there's that aspect of it. But I do think even in this life, there is a collective trauma that we all have politically that has really taught us that we must divide.
00:50:04
Speaker
We must divide, there is a wrong, there is a right, there is a black, there is a white, there is a dark, there is a light. And there is honestly complexity and beauty within all of it. On how we define it, it's just how we, it's which label we're putting on whichever thing. I don't know if that, I don't know if I articulated that very well, but hopefully you know what I mean. I do, I do. And I think there's also just a lot of normalizing of very unhealthy behavior that makes it,
00:50:37
Speaker
you know, something that I am very triggered by, it kind of, I'm like, blown away that the person I'm talking to is not triggered by it at all. You know, like, and I think that is, it's, it's, it's a hard, like, you know,
00:50:56
Speaker
I don't know. That's a big comment. I don't want to get into political conversation here. So I'm just going to leave it at that. Let's talk a little bit about triggers in society and how people are naming them and warning, like, you know, trigger warning.
The Overuse of Triggers and Labels
00:51:13
Speaker
Like this is something that was not a thing when we were growing up. No, this was not a thing at all. And I guess it kind of gets to this question is like, well,
00:51:20
Speaker
So clearly everything we've talked about is affecting people. It affects us. It is a real thing that probably deeply impacts the majority of our relationships. But is it overused? Like have we
00:51:34
Speaker
neutralized it to a certain degree? Like have we, like, you know, when you, like, I hate to say it a little bit, like the word bullying a little bit where something gets like, you get a catchphrase. Everybody's a narcissist right now and everybody's being bullied. And listen, there's a lot of narcissists out there and there are a lot of people out there getting bullied, but do we start to, does the word start to lose its like power and its potency because we have overused it, over defined it? I don't know. What do you think?
00:52:05
Speaker
I think...
00:52:06
Speaker
I mean, there's a million Jillian triggers, like something that is triggering for you may not be triggering for me. And I think there are certain things, obviously, you know, if you are the victim of a rape and you are watching a program that is going to have that in it, you wouldn't know that going into that program. It's nice to get a heads up, you know, cause then you can make that decision of whether or not you want to engage with that program. You know, I,
00:52:37
Speaker
I think that there's an appropriate time and an appropriate place to be compassionate about people's triggers and give them a heads up that this might be a triggering thing. Because it gives you the option to opt out versus just putting it on the person and next time. And I think especially when you're talking about things like sexual violence in a film or explicit lyrics that might speak.
00:53:07
Speaker
I, you know, I don't know about the lyrics thing. Let's not go tip or gore and go away too old, but we're not going to kick it. We're not going to kick it like 1992 style. But what I mean is that for a person who has had a traumatic situation like that, yes, it is nice to know, okay, I can make a decision like that there's extreme violence in this or something like that. So I can make my own choice in that. So I think in that moment,
00:53:31
Speaker
It can be a useful thing. But I think it can also be an excuse a little bit. You hear a lot of people saying, well, I'm feeling really triggered by you right now. I'm feeling really triggered by what you're saying right now. And I think there's a difference between saying, I'm feeling really triggered right now. I think I need to take a beat. I need to take a minute to reflect on why I'm feeling triggered instead of saying,
00:53:54
Speaker
I'm feeling really triggered because you said that. Yeah. And shutting it down. Like I'm shutting it down because of my trigger. You're triggering me. That's not helping anyone. That's not helping anybody. And it's basically assuming that because this person has used this word or done this thing, that they should stop because you feel triggered by it. And that's not always your feeling. You got to own it. Exactly. You got to own it. So I think that I think it's like anything. Like once we have knowledge, like when we learned about what narcissism was,
00:54:22
Speaker
I don't think as a culture, as a society, we really understood what narcissism was until like mid to late 2000s is when it started to really enter into like our vernacular where it started becoming. And then in the last several years, it is, you know, everyone is a narcissist and it's everywhere. And so I think understanding what narcissism is, is super important because it does help you contextualize a relationship.
00:54:48
Speaker
You know, there's a lot of people who were in relationships with narcissists for a long time and getting gas lit, which is another word. We get the same thing where you're like didn't understand what was going on. So they felt like they were crazy and they felt like they were on this hamster wheel and couldn't get out of this situation that was kind of subtly abusive and they didn't even know they're being abused. So yes, it, there's an incredible amount of value of understanding narcissism.
00:55:11
Speaker
being able to put that label and then knowing how to adjust your responses, because like we said earlier, you can't set a boundary with a narcissist other than to not engage with them about it, to just kind of let it go because they feed off of it. They feed off a fight.
00:55:27
Speaker
that's useful, but then every time somebody upsets you or isn't interested or you have a fight, you can't call them a narcissist. Like then it becomes diluted, you know? So it's, I think it's a little bit like triggers as well too. Like something, you know, every time a kid is getting into an argument with another kid does not mean that kids being bullied. Sometimes it's just kids working things out, right? So we need to be careful. Yeah, powerful.
00:55:54
Speaker
They do. So I think we have to be careful to not delude the potency of words and labels and definitions so that they aren't taken seriously when they need to be taken seriously.
Owning and Managing Triggers Effectively
00:56:09
Speaker
And I think that push and pull exists. Anytime we understand something more psychologically, I think there's always going to be a little bit of an over saturation and over correction will probably
00:56:21
Speaker
take place in some form. And I think that applies to a lot of things. I agree. And I think also, when you tell someone you're triggering, this is triggering, I need it to stop. That's, in a way, an act of avoidance, right? It goes back to that conversation of not acknowledging that the trigger is yours. It is not the other person's. And you've got to dig deep. Ask yourself why.
00:56:49
Speaker
and then respond accordingly. But shutting a conversation down and not doing that work is avoidance and that is not serving you and healing yourself from that trauma or that trigger. Definitely.
00:57:04
Speaker
Definitely. I think like we said, there's a difference between removing yourself for a moment and saying, you know what? I don't feel like I can respond in a productive way right now. I'm feeling a little upset. I'm feeling a little activated. I'm going to go take a few minutes. Let me collect myself and let me come back to this conversation in a better place. Yeah.
00:57:23
Speaker
I think that's a very productive way of like saying, I need to take a beat without avoiding it. As long as you return back to the conversation at some point, as long as the actual reflection is done, you know? Cause hard conversations are important and it's important to talk through triggering conversations, whether you're in the workplace and like, I've got an issue with authority and there are times where I'm like, you know, at work, like I'm like,
00:57:53
Speaker
I could respond many different ways here. I need to like take a minute and respond in the way that's going to serve me best. Um, because I'm feeling triggered by this, not so much in my current workplace, but let's say in past workplaces. Um, and I think it's, it's important. It's important to not, not avoid, you know, you set the boundaries you need to set to live a healthy, happy life with people that are triggering.
00:58:20
Speaker
but there's a difference between setting a boundary and avoiding. Absolutely. And I think a big part of that is being able to know the difference between an ego response and like an aligned response with something because I think the ego is often in the driving seat when it comes to responding to our triggers, especially things like that were like issues with authority because
00:58:45
Speaker
have them too. You know, surprise, surprise. Why do you think I'm self-employed? Like the best employee till I'm not. But, you know, like I think that, and I'll even find it as an employer, like with an employee, if something happens and I'm feeling really triggered about something that they do, and I'm finding myself getting hot,
00:59:09
Speaker
I have to really collect myself and be like, is this your ego responding to this? Or is this a legitimate frustration that you're experiencing? And I find that typically legitimate
00:59:21
Speaker
I guess maybe more aligned frustrations or frustrations that have more merit or something that we can really dig into don't feel, they don't make me as angry. That might make me feel a little disappointed. That might make me feel frustrated, but they don't typically elicit the same level of hostile response from a situation. And so I do think that our ego wants to keep us safe. Our ego wants to tell us stories like that person doesn't respect you and
00:59:50
Speaker
they're taking advantage of you, all these things that we kind of tell ourselves. And so I think it's really important to develop the ability to understand your relationship with your ego a little bit better, a little bit more comprehensively. So when it, you know, when it speaks to you, which it speaks to you often, you know, the difference, you know, the difference between your ego and you know, the difference between, you know, a true,
01:00:18
Speaker
feeling of intuition, a true thought that needs to be acted upon in some way. And that just takes, I feel like that takes time and it takes work. And I think that also applies to
01:00:30
Speaker
that applies to work, it applies to family, it applies to relationships, projects, whatever. Our ego is, our ego is trying to keep us safe. It's not a bad thing. It is trying to keep us safe, but it tries to keep us safe by keeping us small. Yeah. A hundred percent. You know? So it's like learning how to interpret that and interpret your thoughts and interpret your reactions.
01:00:56
Speaker
with a little bit more clarity. And that, it just takes time. And it's a constant work in progress.
Concluding Thoughts and Mindfulness Practice
01:01:01
Speaker
This is all a constant work in progress, right? You gotta have compassion with yourself, you know? Yeah. When you don't do it, when you don't do it well, or you don't feel like you do it well, that's the biggest thing is to not beat yourself up. Cause that's something I'm really about it. Like if I really hurt somebody or I really acted a certain way, then I feel so terrible. Like I feel so terrible about what I've done. Even if that person forgives me and we move on,
01:01:23
Speaker
I spend, I could spend the next two days beating myself up about what a terrible thing I did and how awful it was. And so I've had to learn to not to find compassion with myself too. Find compassion when I lose it. You can always try again. You can always try again. And that's really, it's a practice. You will. Like there are, no matter how well you think you've mastered all your triggers, they will rise again.
01:01:45
Speaker
and you gotta, you know, we just get better and better and they get softer and softer and softer each time. Yeah, and that's what I love about mindfulness. It's a practice, you know, and you're gonna have successes, you're gonna have failures, but as long as you keep doing it, you're going to get better at it.
01:02:01
Speaker
Yeah, and even in the failures or what's perceived failure, that's where sometimes the biggest lessons come, the biggest growth. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Not when we're doing it perfectly. It's like when we don't, so that's the beautiful thing about it. It's an ongoing, ongoing practice, an ongoing conversation. So, well, thank you, Nan. Thank you. Thank you. This was great. This was great. I'm feeling less trigger. We need to, we've got a big year for triggers coming up, people. It's an election, presidential election season in America.
01:02:31
Speaker
We need to definitely be mindful of what we're experiencing and how it makes us feel. Definitely. Definitely. All right. All right, lady. Well, I'll see you next week. See you next week. Have a good one. Thank you. You too. Don't forget to follow us on social at Everyday Mindful Podcast on Instagram and Facebook.
01:02:56
Speaker
And if you liked our little chat, please subscribe. It would be great if you gave us a reveal. All the stars, please. Same time, same place next week. Bye. Bye.