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Demystifying Mindfulness: Part 1
70 Plays2 years ago
Mindfulness is as easy as you make it, at least that's the approach Kiley and Nan take trying to weave into lives as busy working moms. Technically the first episode they ever recorded (pardon the rookie sound), they share tips on how mindfulness can be as simple as taking a moment to smell your morning coffee, or doing some deep breathing while sitting in the car. Because, like any everyday practice, mindfulness has to work for your schedule.
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Transcript
Introduction to Everyday Mindful Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Hi, I'm Kylie Wynn Efron. And I'm Nan Cavanaugh, and welcome to Everyday Mindful, a space for real talk on weaving the magic of mindfulness into our daily lives. Let's dig in.
00:00:19
Speaker
This is exciting. This is very exciting. It's taken us a bit, but we did it. We're here. It took us a year. That's okay. Crazy year, but we made it and we're here. We have to wait for the best thing. So, but I'm so excited to be here with you today and to start this journey with you. Let's get started.
Demystifying Mindfulness
00:00:42
Speaker
So,
00:00:43
Speaker
what are we talking about today? We're talking about demystifying mindfulness and I think we picked a pretty tough one for the first conversation because it's a pretty general topic. I think it's a topic that people sometimes feel overwhelmed by or confused by or
00:01:07
Speaker
And but I also think it's something that people really want to integrate into their lives more. So I think I think it makes a lot of sense. And I think it really encapsulates all the things that we, you know, we want to explore on this podcast in the future.
00:01:25
Speaker
Yeah, and I think some people just think it's honestly just a bunch of hippie shit. Agreed. And there is some hippie shit there. Yeah, and in reality, it's actually, it's really important, particularly the stay in age with everything going on in our lives and all the distraction and all the noise. I think it's actually maybe the most important thing.
00:01:53
Speaker
I would agree because I think it's definitely if you're thinking about topics of overall wellness, yoga practices, meditation practices, breath work, all the things that we can do to reduce our stress.
00:02:11
Speaker
They can be more time consuming. They can be more complex. And I think that mindfulness is really something that you can implement into your day-to-day life. And you can start to see the benefits immediately.
00:02:29
Speaker
And so I do think as far as whether you want to call it a spiritual practice or whatever you want to call it, I think it's probably the most important and the most pragmatic day to day practice that a person is going to implement into their life.
Mindfulness as Simple and Personal
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't think it has to be hard. I think a lot of people think it has to be
00:02:54
Speaker
some, like, you got to read a book on it, you got to go to a class, you got to do some breathing exercises, you know, it really doesn't have to be all of that. Like, you can be mindful in a very personal way that doesn't involve any sort of hard work or financial investment. It's actually really easy, I think, when you just kind of get an understanding of what it's all about.
00:03:23
Speaker
I agree. I think it's really accessible and I do think it's something that you can really define for yourself. You know, what is that personal expression and how do you want to integrate it into your life in a manner that works for you?
00:03:38
Speaker
So, I don't know, maybe it's good to let's start talking a little bit about what is that, you know, what's the kind of generic, if you, you know, Google, what is mindfulness, you know, how is it defined? And essentially, it's really the awareness that arises from paying attention on purpose in the present moment in a non-judgmental
00:04:07
Speaker
manner. Sounds complex. But I think there's actually a lot of simplicity to it. So maybe we can just dive in and start breaking that down a little bit.
Non-Judgmental Attention and Curiosity
00:04:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think the key like part of that definition is non judgmental, right? Because it's really easy to pay attention. And a lot of ways that are really toxic and really unhealthy for you for the thing you're paying attention to. And I think that
00:04:37
Speaker
When people think of mindfulness, they think, well, and there's really, it's a sense of letting go. It's like paying attention and letting go at the same time. It's like paying attention without attachment. I think of that more so in my, in like, in my experience, it's not so much. Judgment is attachment. Like, oh.
00:05:04
Speaker
noting something happening and just letting it go. Agreed. And I think for me, the key thing there is curiosity because I always feel that really like judgment, there's no judgment present in curiosity, only interest, right? You're just interested in it.
00:05:24
Speaker
And I remember the first time a therapist said that to me about really just seeing if I could explore just being curious about it. And it first kind of baffled me as a concept. I think I didn't really understand why that could be so important and why it could be so impactful.
00:05:45
Speaker
But for me, it's turned out to probably be the most impactful approach to integrating more mindfulness. It's really hard when thoughts arise and there's going to be judgment present.
00:06:01
Speaker
But when you start to understand that just having awareness that there is judgment present or baby being like, hmm, that's interesting. You know, why do I feel that way? All of a sudden, the frame of reference in your mind has really switched. It's pivoted to this place of curiosity. So for me, I think when I started to be able to wrap my brain around that is when I was able to start really
00:06:28
Speaker
implementing more non-judgmental ways of being into my life, more awareness, more curiosity and really surrender, right? Yeah. And I think like when you're, like our minds are racing all the time. Like all the time we are thinking about things that happened in the past that we can't change, things that have never happened and may never happen in the future.
00:06:59
Speaker
which means we think about things that aren't even real. And when you implore, implore, when you focus on curiosity in that moment and you ask yourself, why am I thinking about this? I think kind of that's the first, one of the first steps to kind of beginning the journey of mindfulness is developing a relationship with your inner mind, with your higher self,
00:07:27
Speaker
the thing that is the voice inside your body and learning how to be curious about where that voice is coming from, why that voice is, you know, sometimes completely destroying your day, even though you're like having a chill moment, sitting on the couch, not doing anything, but you're just like stressing yourself out.
Everyday Mindfulness Practices
00:07:55
Speaker
because your mind is just running wild and you're not paying attention to anything happening around you. You're just allowing that inner voice to control your present moment in a way that's not healthy for you and in a way that's not healthy for really anything around you. Either it be Frank.
00:08:17
Speaker
Well, I think that's part of it is that kind of monkey mind mentality that like when you have these like ruminating thoughts that you just keep feeding and feeding and feeding. There's this false sense of control. Like if I think about this enough and I think about every scenario and what can happen, maybe I can stop it somehow. Maybe I can feel better. But in actuality, I just end up feeling so much worse.
00:08:40
Speaker
So I think it's like anything that you can do to create a pause, to just create some space between like the stimuli and the response. And I think that's where if you can, that's where like that simple notion of like being curious about something immediately kind of like it pulls the mind into a state of awareness.
00:09:05
Speaker
It creates a little pause where the thoughts aren't repeating and they're not building upon themselves. And it kind of breaks and pulls you into that present moment. And I think that over time, when you start to learn how to do that more and to do it more frequently,
00:09:23
Speaker
All of a sudden, those pauses between the stimuli and the response, the problem and your response to it become larger, like more space is created. And all of a sudden, that concept of weaving mindfulness into your day-to-day becomes, I think, easier. It becomes more automatic, too, and it becomes, I don't know, more natural. I mean, for you, what does mindfulness mean for you?
00:09:55
Speaker
I can kind of give you just an example. Just yesterday I got home. Um, I'd taken my daughter to a doctor's appointment. I was feeling kind of stressed out and she was being stressful and she's a teenager and it's one of his, and I was feeling really bummed out and, but I know that really like I had a pretty good day otherwise, but I was just feeling bummed out. And so I got home and my husband Scotty was on the phone. Um, I was up in a room. I just,
00:10:25
Speaker
felt my emotions where I could just tell, like I'm like, the way I'm feeling right now is going to wreck my night. So I took a pause. I went into my bedroom. I got my journal and I started writing and I just made a note. I was feeling upset about things happening in other people's lives that I cannot control. And I just said, I just kind of wrote down in my journal, like,
00:10:54
Speaker
My husband's on the phone talking to a friend. My oldest child is upstairs putting makeup on. It's her favorite thing to do. My youngest child is home and you know, I'm so lucky we were able to afford to go to a doctor and she's making herself a snack. Like I just noted where I was at my house, what the people were doing in my home and that noting of just being present of what's actually happening around me.
00:11:24
Speaker
um, really grounded me in my emotional state. It's like, I don't need to think or feel anything about anything other than what's around me right now. And right now at this moment, everyone is okay and everything is okay. And I just need to shut out all the other thoughts and feelings other than what's actually physically happening in the present moment because
00:11:49
Speaker
In reality, that's the only thing that exists. I mean, there is nothing outside of the present moment. There is no future. There is no past. So that's just an example. I do a lot of that kind of grounding type stuff when I'm feeling really stressed out. I just try to really ground down and like the chair I'm sitting on and what I'm seeing out the window, you know, just, that's kind of how I apply mindfulness.
00:12:17
Speaker
in my everyday life. Well, I think that makes so much sense because kind of what you did is you just listed the facts. Like you pulled all the judgment out of it. It's not my daughter is putting on makeup in this manner or my husband is doing this in this manner. There's no motive. There's no nothing. It's just this is what, you know, this is what took place.
00:12:40
Speaker
And so I think by doing that too, you're creating that little momentary pause that allows you to pull yourself out of it. And like you said, I think it is a form of grounding.
Embracing Emotions in Mindfulness
00:12:52
Speaker
And then I think what's really interesting is then what I think it can allow you to do is connect to your actual emotions about it. Because I think that is one thing that people assume about mindfulness that I think is a little bit of a myth is that it should be free of emotion.
00:13:10
Speaker
that we should just be being present and if we're being fully present we don't have any emotions or we don't have any feelings but in my opinion for me what I realized is it's just being aware that I'm having them and not pushing them away it's like allowing a little space so if you are able to like have something to ground you into that moment it calms you down
00:13:31
Speaker
The judgments passed and then I'm able to kind of sit with the feeling a little bit more and process it so I get it out of the body and so I think that is one of the most powerful ways you can use mindfulness and
00:13:47
Speaker
is it's not to feel nothing. It's actually that I think connect more deeply into our emotions, but perhaps connect them in a way that is not from this place of this worried mind. I feel like you can get to a more honest answer and a more honest understanding when we calm those really rapid, really anxious thoughts. Because I think it's hard to be realistic
00:14:16
Speaker
about something if we are catastrophizing it. And I feel like that's what anxiety really does. It's like you're catastrophizing a situation. So, you know, if I'm having a situation, say with one of my sons, and he's reacting in a particular way. And if I'm thinking in that moment, oh my gosh, this is never going to end. He's always going to react this way. It's going to be so much harder for him because he reacts this way. What are we going to do?
00:14:41
Speaker
It's just piling on. It's a snowball effect that's taking place. But typically, if I can calm myself down and I can just kind of look at the facts of the moment and then reenter into the situation, I almost always have a less emotive, calmer, less worried response, for lack of a better way of saying that.
00:15:10
Speaker
Yeah. I think that makes so much sense to me. Makes so much sense. And that's the thing is that I think that formal practices are super important. It's incredibly important to have a meditation practice and breath work practice, all those things. But at the end of the day, the things that I think trigger us the most are in our day-to-day lives are taking place at work.
00:15:33
Speaker
They're taking place with our children. Yeah, in the car. And so you don't always have that moment. You can't just sit down and meditate in the middle of a meeting at work, right? You know, if your child is having a meltdown, that's not when you can do it. I feel like those practices are so important to cultivating more mindfulness, but it's really how we like apply it in, you know, that
00:15:57
Speaker
day-to-day life. For me, I really think it has been a path to happiness because I think before I started instituting or integrating, I should say, any mindfulness practices in my life, I think I was suffering a lot. I was definitely suffering from chronic anxiety, occasionally panic attacks, but mostly chronic anxiety, chronic worrying.
00:16:20
Speaker
And I just felt kind of helpless and often felt like things were happening to me. It gave me this real sense of being out of control and I'm a little type A. So being out of control is not so comfortable for me. But I felt like when I was able to start having
00:16:39
Speaker
these methods and these modalities that helped center me and helped give me more clear perspective on things, a lot of the suffering in my life started to dissipate. And it really has been this like evolving process that keeps going and going and going. And I think what's so beautiful about it is like it can start with I'm trying to control, you know, anxiety.
00:17:05
Speaker
I'm trying to deal with the emotions of my life and the stresses that come along with it. And then you can start practicing it in ways that it's evolved to when I'm eating, sitting and being present with what I'm chewing, when I'm cooking, when I'm washing dishes, just allowing some of those basic acts that take place in our day-to-day lives to become an active mindfulness themselves.
Incorporating Mindfulness into Daily Routines
00:17:29
Speaker
And I actually feel like
00:17:30
Speaker
It's actually a really easy way to train the brain for mindfulness as well, too. And it's not quite as emotive as sitting down. So for me, it really has been a path to happiness. And it's just been this really constant unfolding process that has changed a lot over the years. It's changed a lot over the years. Yeah.
00:17:58
Speaker
you know, you bring up a good point about just like little, just everyday moments where you can like kind of savor the present. You know, like I think about like most of us drink coffee in the morning, some of us drink tea. Maybe some people drink soda. I'm not going to talk. That's another podcast topic. It definitely is not going to fall under the nonjudgmental side of things. Um, but for those of us who do not drink soda in the morning, um,
00:18:29
Speaker
You know, just like, think about the last time you actually smelled your coffee, like really smelled it. You know, this is something you do every morning. You put this thing in your body. It's the first thing you start your day with. Maybe, you know, maybe drink a little water for us. Who knows? But you know, it feels a little cheesy to like sit there and smell your coffee, but it is, it's a pause, right? Because I don't know if you're like me, I wake up in the morning and I have to really,
00:18:59
Speaker
my mind immediately starts running through the list. And I have to say, I have to basically have an internal conversation and slow it down. And in taking a moment just to sit, feel the hot cup on my hand and smell the aroma of the coffee, it's very grounding. And it's just a pause. It's just a pause. And then I feel like I'm in a space where I can respond
00:19:28
Speaker
to the list running through my brain versus like, immediately react usually with heart palpitations to the list running through my brain.
00:19:37
Speaker
No, absolutely. I actually started getting up an hour before my kids, which is no easy feat because I like my sleep. I'm an eight-hour girl, but I started to do it because I did. I felt like I would hop out of bed and it was like I was on this hamster wheel and there was no finish line and I was running, jumping out of bed, getting my kids dressed.
00:20:02
Speaker
getting them to the table, getting them their vitamins, getting them to school, most of the time, not on time, even though I'm really, really desperately trying to do so. And I just started feeling like I'm starting my day in this frazzled place, and then it would be very hard to come down from that. And so I started waking up an hour early. And the funny thing is I do exactly what you said as I brew my cup of coffee,
00:20:25
Speaker
And I take a moment with it. And then I do an act that I call soul writing. But really, it's like morning minutes. There's lots of different ways to talk about it. Or I'm just really stream of conscious writing and connecting with my intuition and connecting with that cup of coffee and just having this moment to collect myself. Sometimes in the warmer months, which we live in Florida. There's lots of them. I'll sit outside and I'll just listen to birds, which
00:20:53
Speaker
I don't know how I became a 50 year old woman who sits outside and listens to birds. But I would like feel my nervous system down regulating every time I did it and then it was hysterical.
00:21:06
Speaker
actually read the other day that there is a meditation that is literally just bird shirping because they found it lowers people's nervous system. But I just started finding in that moment, like I felt so calm and so grounded, and I could collect my thoughts. And even if I was upset about something, I could go sit outside and listen to bird shirp for a few minutes and connect with nature.
00:21:27
Speaker
And all of a sudden I was able to like reframe what I was going through. So I feel like I definitely have a practice similar to that. And then, and then I have some formal practices too for me.
00:21:40
Speaker
practicing yoga, definitely. And I feel like yoga is the gateway drug to getting you to tune in to other aspects of mindfulness, a formal meditation practice. But for me, breathwork, for sure. Breathwork gave me the quickest and fastest results I had ever experienced. All of a sudden, it was instantaneous. I could shut my brain down.
00:22:08
Speaker
I could feel my nervous system like down regulate immediately and then like meditation became easier. Everything just became easier once I started instituting that. So I do feel though that while some of these more simple practices are so important, it's for me, it's been really important to kind of start with some of the bigger ones and to practice them regularly because I think that's what they really do.
00:22:33
Speaker
They really like train your brain for how to behave and how to think even when you're off the mat or off your meditation pillow, so to speak, that type of thing. So I've definitely oscillated. In the beginning, in truth, I definitely started with the big ones. I started with yoga. And then after a couple of years of doing yoga, all of a sudden I was like, okay, well maybe I can do like five minute guided meditation.
00:22:57
Speaker
And then that five minute guided meditation all of a sudden led to 10. And then I kind of dropped the guided and did it on my own. But then, but I would go in and out of it a lot because it's, it's, you know, it is challenging to find that consistency. And especially when you have a job running a company of children, it, it, it was hard. But then when I, when I like implemented the breath work, that was like my aha moment. Cause I was like, Oh, I can do, I mean, I do breath work in the car when my son is in ballet.
Challenges of Maintaining Mindfulness Practices
00:23:25
Speaker
I do it, I will do it at anywhere and everywhere because it's this quick and easy way that I can just shut everything down. So I'd say for me, that's been like my most powerful formal practice, but I definitely, I weave in and out of like the formal and the practical. Do you have any formal practices that you do? You know, I've been like doing yoga since I was 17 and I have had moments where I've done it
00:23:53
Speaker
regularly for years and then years when I haven't done it, but a handful of times a year. And right now I'm kind of like in an in between place. So I, I don't, I don't breath work in the sense that I, you know, I will take 10 deep breaths if I'm feeling really panicked about something, but I don't, I wouldn't say I have a practice right now. I'm aspiring to get in to my yoga again.
00:24:21
Speaker
just having an internal conversation with myself about it yesterday. But one of my big challenges in life in general is prioritizing myself, period, like I just don't do it. And that's why I find like,
00:24:37
Speaker
I like this idea of doing breathwork in the car. I hadn't thought about that because I can, there you are doing something for your child yet simultaneously doing something for yourself. Yeah, you're going to fit in. So I'm going to think about that. I'm going to think about that. When I have done, when I have been in a practice space, like doing yoga, I've done that, you know, meditation is something I tried and I need to just keep trying. I do it. But I don't ever feel like I get,
00:25:07
Speaker
anywhere with it, which I know that's, it's a process. It's a practice. You're not supposed to get anywhere. I've done like the headspace app. I've done the column app. I've done it without any apps. Um, and I feel like in a lot of ways it's just, it's just the act of noting and I, and that's where I think like, I feel like I, I haven't gotten to that place yet where I can sit and have nothing in my head.
00:25:34
Speaker
but it's really just me sitting with nothing in my head. And then I'm like, is this meditating? Cause I kind of, you know, okay. I don't really feel like I'm approaching Nirvana at this moment with nothing in my head, but.
00:25:46
Speaker
Well, I think that's the big myth about it is people think you're supposed to like not have any thoughts, but everybody has thoughts. Thoughts are always, they're always coming and going. You're just really supposed to develop the ability to sit with them for a moment and then kind of return your attention to that point of focus. But it can feel intimidating. It can feel hard. So I feel like it's so important that people kind of find that one thing.
00:26:10
Speaker
that is whatever their gateway is. For me, it was definitely yoga. And then the breath work just because it just shuts the brain down so fast. All of a sudden, meditating didn't feel hard to me anymore because it already kind of created the state for it. But I think doing it when you have time is really important. I remember I was at one of my yoga classes and one of the fellow students was asking the teacher,
00:26:37
Speaker
you know, do you have to meditate at the same time every day? And I remember the teacher saying, well, you don't have to, but it's really best because that's how you're going to formulate your practice and being dedicated to it. And I remember thinking at the time, and I've really honored this in myself, is that I actually don't think you need to meditate at the same time every day. I think you need to do whatever it is you need to do that works with your schedule. Because the truth is, is that a lot of people's schedule does not allow for it.
00:27:07
Speaker
You know, a lot of people start their day immediately. They head straight to work or they drop off their kids. They're coming home and they're juggling a lot of things. So it's like finding that time to slip it in. So Monday through Friday, I can slip it in while I'm sitting in a parking lot waiting for my kid who's in dance. Now I might look like a crazy lady. That's okay. But I get it in. So I've definitely, and I change, mine changes all the time. Like sometimes I'm a yoga teacher and sometimes,
00:27:36
Speaker
All I'm doing is teaching yoga and not practicing very much yoga because I'm not being called to practice a lot of it. I just recently started being called to really start to practice again. So I do think that's important to like listen to the ebbs and flows too of your body and to like allow for that because I don't think that our schedules, unless you have a really regimented schedule,
00:27:59
Speaker
which as a working mother, I do not have a very, I have a regimented schedule in the sense for my kids, but not for myself. Cause like you said, I'm constantly taking care of other people. You know, I have a mother with Alzheimer's and young children and a business and these things that, um, but I have found for me, um, which sometimes I actually, I feel a little guilty about not feeling guilty about is that I do, I have to have a pretty rigorous self care regimen or I
00:28:29
Speaker
crumble, like I don't do well and I don't manage my stress well. And so I've had to really put something in place because otherwise I'm just too reactive of a person. I am not a naturally Zen person. I'm trying to train myself to be that. So for me, like my self-care regimen is definitely probably ample in comparison to the average person.
00:28:59
Speaker
But you do what works, that's what works for me. So I just try to squeeze it in. Just try to squeeze it in as much as possible. And I definitely think we get influenced by different things at different times. And for me, yoga and breath work, they were my largest influence as far as mindfulness was concerned. Did you have an influence or what made you all of a sudden be interested in it or thinking you wanted to integrate it?
00:29:30
Speaker
Um, you know, honestly, I think it's just managing anxiety, you know, having high stress jobs and, uh, you know, being overwhelmed and learning about tools to manage anxiety. And that's, I think where I mean, yoga, yes. Um, but it like this idea of noting and being present, uh, really came to me through just working with
00:30:00
Speaker
um, reading, really reading about anxiety management and, um, tools and techniques to help with that. And I think I'm naturally a mindful person, you know, probably to a fault. Like I, I, I spend a lot of time thinking about the other person and accommodating the other person, um, and, or the other thing and invest a lot of it. But, you know, and I think that is something that is a misconception about mindfulness.
00:30:28
Speaker
that mindfulness is being mindful of something other or different. And it is in some ways, right? Because you want to be mindful of people's feelings when you respond to them, for example. But yeah, I think mindfulness has just been really a work in progress in an effort to manage
00:30:54
Speaker
manage stress and workload. I'm someone that is a busy person by nature. I'm not, I can't, I struggle with not doing. And so mindfulness allows me to stay, stay busy, but manage that stress load by just being present and trying not to think about the things
00:31:22
Speaker
that are happening later in the day, tomorrow, or next week, but staying present and focusing on the task at hand. Yeah, it's interesting. When I first started reading about mindfulness and hearing about it, it felt
00:31:39
Speaker
been all to me, I guess, if that makes any sense. Like it always felt like some, I always thought like, Oh, that's, that's not the practice I, you know, I want to do. I was really attracted to yoga. Like I got into a yoga class and all of a sudden, um, I just, I really could feel into enjoy the like euphoria that I felt through, you know, paying attention to my breath and focusing on some of the concepts that they would talk about.
00:32:07
Speaker
And then it took me some time to like really understand that those concepts were like the core of mindfulness. Really it's like, you know, cultivating awareness. You know, like we talked about curiosity, non-judgment, acceptance, you know, non-striving, like really being able to, like I would be introduced to one of those concepts.
00:32:31
Speaker
in a class, and then I would kind of sit with it. And then I would find it kind of weaving its way into my life, like a lesson with around it would be kind of presented. And then I'd kind of move on to the next one. And so it definitely felt like this unfolding process. And when I when I was able to kind of reflect on the concepts and try to
00:32:51
Speaker
integrate them into my life one by one more so like thinking about meditating on the concept itself and how it was applied to my life was more effective for me than sitting down on a cushion and trying to say like I'm going to be mindful or I'm going to practice this specific like prescribed mindfulness activity.
Mindfulness Concepts: Non-Striving and Flexibility
00:33:10
Speaker
I kind of felt like I almost had the opposite like
00:33:13
Speaker
I went the more complex and then I started dialing back to the like the simple, like the simple things, which, you know, I think like simplicity and it's really like the road to power, honestly. But it took me, I almost had to go more complex and to the dial back till I can get to this place where I could start integrating it more.
00:33:31
Speaker
into the day-to-day, but it really was like those concepts that surround it that I thought was so like riveting, like it's riveting to me. It's so intriguing to me, I should say, that like if you really want to accomplish something, that non-striving is probably the best way to get there. This idea that if you're not attached to an outcome, you're far more likely to get the outcome that you actually want.
00:34:00
Speaker
Like it has a lot of really like complex notions, like complex concepts, like embedded within it. And I find that like endlessly intriguing. I really, really do. It's always been the part that I've enjoyed the most. I think there's a lot of people out there who are super into grind culture who would probably like push back on that. I think so. I bet. I bet they would. I bet they would.
00:34:28
Speaker
But at the same time, I think the people I know who are the most successful in grind culture, they're the ones who literally have the like, I don't give a fuck mentality. Like it's like they are obsessively working, trying to achieve, but they are not, if they fail, they just keep going. If they come to an obstacle, they just work around it. Like the people I know who are, you know,
00:34:57
Speaker
hardcore type A in the rat race, trying to win it. The ones that are the most successful, their type of striving, their striving is much more flexible. It's like a, it's like a powerful river crashing over boulders versus, you know, a quiet brook gently bobbing along, but they're still
00:35:25
Speaker
able to accomplish their goals, maybe not the most healthy way, but, um, they're flexible and they don't care what people think and they don't, they don't, they manage obstacles well and they, they're kind of striving without, um, I don't know. Well, I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that people think if you're not like, if you like acceptance or non-attachment, they think it means that you don't care.
00:35:52
Speaker
And I think it means that there's no effort that goes behind it. And I think acceptance is really just accepting things as they are, being able to have a very clear viewpoint on them. You can set it. I am an extremely goal-oriented person. I am like New Year's Day, that's my day. I feel fresh start, give it to me, love it. I love a goal. But what I have found is that I think in the past,
00:36:21
Speaker
I would take that goal. I would set it for myself and that I would cling to it and I would like clench. And I think that when we are in a more accepting and more open and a more expansive state is when change actually happens. And if we're like, you said that word flexibility, I think is so important because if you're a little flexible to what that outcome might look like, you might actually achieve a better outcome.
00:36:49
Speaker
you might actually manifest an outcome that provides even more than what you could have visualized. So I think that's actually one of the things I find so intriguing about mindfulness is like on the surface, it seems, you know, it can look a little boring or it can look a little banal, but in actuality, there's a lot of complexity in it. And that's why I enjoy like sitting with those concepts and just kind of reflecting on them and then seeing how they integrate to my life because
00:37:15
Speaker
And I'll found if I go to teach them, I'll, I'll make it part of like my Dharma talk for yoga. And then inevitably I'm always challenge, whatever I try to teach, I'm always challenged with like the next day. So I've like, I feel like I've, by allowing it to be kind of an unfolding process, I've gotten so much more out of it. And by not clinging to things so much,
00:37:37
Speaker
I have achieved a lot more than I think I did when I was so attached. And I would be so attached to something that the just the notion of it might not happening would terrify me. And so when I started to like let go a little bit is when I started to really excel.
00:37:58
Speaker
But I do think there's a difference. I still was putting the steps.
Modeling Mindfulness for Children
00:38:01
Speaker
I still was taking the steps to accomplish what I want. You're still moving. They're still forward moving. Like you said, the people who are really successful, they are moving towards something. They are moving in a direction.
00:38:14
Speaker
I think, and I do think they probably do care. I do think they may care when those things happen, but I think some people are better and more pliable at allowing the lesson to transform you, the failure to transform you.
00:38:28
Speaker
as opposed to being like, I suck and I can't do this anymore. And I'm going to peace out, which I have definitely done in some areas of my life before. But I think if you can allow it to kind of unfold, it's such a beautiful practice to implement into your life and into your work. And even with your children trying to model it for children, because that is like a whole other story of how challenging
00:38:58
Speaker
That can be, that can definitely be, I think my, I think modeling it for my children, I'm better at living it on a day to day life than I am at modeling it for my children. Cause it's such your children can be such a triggering, you know, such a triggering act or experience. Yeah. Well, you know, I think about like kids, I think about the television, like there's just so many aspects of your life that just come at you. Like you're just minding your own business, trying to be chill.
00:39:27
Speaker
And then like, you know, your kid comes out with you with a bunch of attitude out of nowhere. Or, you know, someone pops on a TV and next thing you know, you're just being like pummeled with like horrific images of war. And it's just like, it's very hard to maintain a sense of, I don't wanna say detachment, but it's hard not to get triggered. It's hard not to get emotionally invested.
00:39:57
Speaker
Um, on the regular all the time, it's very hard unless you have the luxury of like quietly living alone. Um, people out there who may wish you weren't living alone. Um, you'd have a lot more quiet than the rest of us just putting it out there. I
Misconceptions About Mindfulness
00:40:22
Speaker
don't know. It might be overrated.
00:40:23
Speaker
I went on a trip home to California last November and I was so excited. I was like, oh, I'm going to get a hotel room by myself and I'm going to go to bed by myself. I'm going to wake up on my own. This is going to be amazing. And then I did it. And I was like, oh.
00:40:40
Speaker
kind of lonely. Where's all the noise? Where are all those people who drive me crazy but I love? Grass is always greener. I do feel like there are a lot of misconceptions though about mindfulness and about what it is. Do you feel like you had misconceptions when you came into it? Are there misconceptions out there that you really feel like you still hear about or see
00:41:12
Speaker
Uh, you know, I've pretty much kind of been like a hippie type since I was like five. So I haven't had a lot of misconceptions about mindfulness. I think for me, it seems very like natural and intuitive, but my husband on the other hand, who is not a hippie type, um, he, I think definitely has misconceptions about it being something that requires a meditation practice requires a yoga practice requires breath work and, and,
00:41:41
Speaker
in my mind, it doesn't honestly require me those are all wonderful things. And if you're really like working towards like a certain certain relationship with my mindful practice that is there's not really hierarchy, but that's maybe more in depth than just kind of every day. Just everyday being, of course, but
00:42:10
Speaker
Yeah. So I mean, I personally, I don't think I've had any real misconceptions, but I know a lot of people who do. And I think that's kind of why we're here. You know, we're kind of here just to, to talk about applications of, of living a mindful life and how it's, um, it's, it's really something for everyone and it doesn't, it's, and it doesn't have to be defined. It's, it's kind of an undefinable thing. Cause like you said earlier, it's really, you know,
00:42:39
Speaker
It's really unique to the person. And actually I'm reading a Pima children book right now that is titled, start where you are. I love that book. I love that book. I love her. Yeah. And, um, or start, start where you're at. Start where you're at. I think it's the title of it. Um, and, uh, yeah.
00:43:01
Speaker
And that's, I mean, I think that's, I think that's made of the biggest misconception is that it's not something you can just start. Like it's something you have to do and you gotta get the right like yoga pants or whatever. No, it's not what it is at all. Yeah. I'm a firm believer in the energy meets you where you are at that time. Um, I know for me, I definitely, I.
00:43:23
Speaker
I had the misconception, and I do think this is probably a misconception for a lot of people, at least like my students will say this a lot, that they feel like, you know, you're just supposed to be in this like blissful state all the time if you have a mindfulness practice. And while you're doing that mindfulness practice, it should feel really relaxing and really good. And you know, you shouldn't be frustrated. I'll hear people be like, well, I'm a bad meditator or I'm bad at yoga.
00:43:48
Speaker
there's really no such thing as being bad at those things because like the act of process and practice is implicit in them, right? Like you're not perfect at yoga. You have a yoga practice. You're not a perfect meditator. You have a meditation practice, breathwork practice, whatever it is. The idea is that we're constantly evolving and growing in it. But a big part of it is that
00:44:11
Speaker
There are moments when you're doing it that feel uncomfortable, that you feel bored sometimes, that you feel restless sometimes, that you experience frustration.
00:44:25
Speaker
What I think does so beautifully is if you allow those emotions and feelings to rise up, as you learn that they're a part of the process, that they are natural, and that it allows you also to manage those emotions in your day-to-day life too, when you're not trying to have a mindfulness practice, if you want to think of them as separate things.
00:44:48
Speaker
Learning, in my opinion, the most important thing that we can do to really transform and to really grow and to get deeper into meditation practices, to, you know, deeper relationships is learning how to sit with the discomfort a little bit. It's learning and developing the ability to just sit with it, to just watch it a little bit. Cause in my experience, when I do that, it just starts to dissolve away. It kind of softens and loses its grip.
00:45:18
Speaker
a bit. And so I think that for me, that was probably my biggest misconception is that I was a bad at it because I was experiencing those emotions when I would try to do it. Um, and that, um, you can either do it or you can't, you know, that like some people are just naturally good at that. I was not naturally good at it, but I have practiced so much that I would say that now I am probably not, I'm naturally pretty good at it. It doesn't mean I don't, I have my moments for sure.
00:45:46
Speaker
But my ability to rail myself in, if I am losing it or losing my temper or getting really upset or whatever it is, I'm just able like fishing rod. I'm just able to pull it in so much faster than I used to be and extrapolate the lesson a lot faster. So I feel like it's by doing it, it's like sped up my ability to heal. Yeah.
00:46:10
Speaker
in a more like expeditious and a more expeditious manner. But I just love that. I love that this idea that it's always a process. It's always a practice. It's always changing and you can't be bad at it. Like I feel like that's such a, it's actually so freeing when you think about it. It's so freeing. And I also think too, it's like, you have to start small. I have a tendency because I am really type A if I want to do something.
00:46:37
Speaker
I'm like, okay, I'm going to change everything. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to diet like crazy or workout like crazy, or I'm going to do, you know, I'm going to sit down and do 30 minutes of meditation from the get-go. And in my experience that never, ever works. The only thing that has ever worked is when I distilled it down to like the smallest piece and just started with a couple of minutes, implemented it a little bit, walked away from it, came back to it. And then that just grows and grows and grows and then literally
00:47:07
Speaker
you know, before you know it, you have this kind of in-depth practice that you didn't have before. So for me, it's definitely been a very gradual process. And I don't think that I have the natural inclination towards as much as you do. Like I think you're a very naturally Zen person. Comes from many decades of pot smoking.
00:47:28
Speaker
It's very, you know, like you gotta have a way. Yoga was my gateway drug. There may have been a little of that involved as well too. So that's okay. I am from California. I've always been a pretty chill. I was a chill kid too. Were you a chill kid? But when I get, when I get riled up, I get real riled up. Um, that's my problem. I can go from like zero to a hundred. Yeah. And that is something that I feel like mindfulness has really helped me with is that
00:47:57
Speaker
It's training yourself to take that pause so you can respond instead of react. Yes, that space between the stimuli and the response is everything, everything. It's because so many fights take place, so many difficult moments with our partners, with our children, with our friends, everything. Almost every time I look back on the biggest fights I've had, it's like if I had just taken a breath,
00:48:24
Speaker
I had just taken a small, the small, like if you can create like one, and that's the other thing I think is like, what is that one thing that creates the pause? So for me, it has literally been like, I just breathe in through the nose and out through the nose. If I do like two rounds of breath, nobody knows what I'm doing.
00:48:40
Speaker
but it just downregulates my nervous system. And so then all of a sudden I'm able to like respond a little, like if I just wait a minute, is it, some people it's counting to 10, you know, something like you do with your body, but like what's your toolkit? Like do you have something that you do when you get really triggered? I take a few breaths. I take a few breaths and that allows me to create that pause.
00:49:08
Speaker
and to think to myself, A, am I reacting based on what just happened? Am I reacting because I've been triggered and I have a trained response to react this way? Like yelling, for example. I have an immediate visceral response to it because I developed it throughout my childhood. But someone could be yelling at me about something that's not that big a deal and I don't have to respond with fight or flight mode.
00:49:38
Speaker
But it's, so yeah, the breath, the breath really helps just taking two or three breaths and, and allows me to kind of step back from the situation and then approach it without just like, bam, firing right back. You know? Yeah. Yeah. It is really hard. It's really, really challenging. It's really hard to break lifelong patterns too. Like patterns you learned as a child.
00:50:03
Speaker
patterns you've learned from your family and early relationships, it's really, really challenging to not react right away. I learned Ujjayi breath in yoga, and that really helped me because it is nasal breathing, but you're layering this constriction at the back of your throat. Yeah, it kind of creates that little, you know when you're in yoga class and you kind of hear somebody doing that kind of audible breath?
00:50:30
Speaker
But what it also does is it immediately down regulates the nervous system. It like switches. And so what I found is I can do it on the under. Like I could be in a meeting and I can do it so quietly that it does. It's not even like a big breath in or big breath, like a big sigh out. It's so subtle that I started just like
00:50:54
Speaker
turning it on when I would be in a stressful scenario where I felt like I didn't want that person to maybe know they were getting a rise out of me or that something was really upsetting me.
00:51:03
Speaker
Now it's almost like instantaneous. Like if something stresses me out, my body is literally trained itself to, it's literally trained itself to just do it. So I do think that's kind of a good example where sometimes a more formal practice kind of slips in to your day to day. Cause it kind of just happened automatically. Like I had trained myself to do it on the mat so much that it became really easy. But what I liked about it was that it was subtle.
00:51:29
Speaker
And then it wasn't this like extreme breath in and extreme breath out, you know, it was something I could do really quickly and still kind of, um, remain like maintain my composure in some way. I use it with my kids a lot, a lot for sure. Sometimes though with them.
00:51:46
Speaker
I'll actually do a dramatic breath in and out because they actually want them to see like, I will, um, I'll think out loud. I'll say like, Oh, mommy's going to take a deep breath in and a deep breath out. Cause I'm feeling really frustrated right now, or I'm feeling really angry right now. And I don't want to yell right now. You know, like I tried to kind of like narrate what I'm doing. Um, just because, you know, it helps to kind of, you know, mirror it and remind them that, you know, I,
00:52:13
Speaker
I'm, mommy's a human too. Sometimes I yell, sometimes I lose it. So that, that is like, I feel like that's been the number one thing I can do. That's quick. That's like a quick thing that I can do, not always effectively, but nine times out of 10, I've gotten a lot better at it for sure. Well, I think that I think breathing, right? It's something we do every moment of every day. I thought I was thinking about it. And I think when it comes to mindfulness,
00:52:41
Speaker
It's such an easy thing to do in a tough situation is just take those three deep breaths, create that space to then be present in the situation instead of just like having a visceral engagement with whatever stressful thing is happening.
Mindfulness, Self-Care, and Accessibility
00:53:04
Speaker
Cause we live really stressful lives. You know, we really do.
00:53:07
Speaker
And it comes at us on many different levels, from many different angles, all the time, much more stressful than it, I think, honestly, than in modern history, you know, than our parents or grandparents' generation in a lot of ways, because there's just so much noise, so much more noise and distraction. Oh, absolutely. And there's also not the built-in community, I think, aspect where you're getting assistance. My yoga teacher always used to say that
00:53:36
Speaker
The more people that you take care of, the more important it is that you have a mindfulness or self-care practice because it's like you can just literally add it up. So, you know, if you're a mother, if you're taking care of aging parents, if you're taking care of, you know, additional family members, maybe you have a company and you've got people working underneath you, or maybe you have employees working underneath, the more people that you are taking care of, the more people you're responsible for,
00:54:05
Speaker
the more vital it is for you to take care of yourself in some form. And it's hard because sometimes it feels like the opposite. It feels like, well, I don't have time for that. But I've finally kind of learned, I don't have time not to do that. Because if I don't, it's like the cheesy airplane airbag analogy that is a cheesy overused analogy. But I think there's a lot of truth to it that if you're not getting enough
00:54:33
Speaker
Oxygen to yours if you're not if your lungs aren't getting enough oxygen if you're not taking in enough oxygen How are you going to provide for somebody else? You're gonna pass out before they get it, you know, so I think you know, it's figuring out How you can take care of yourself how you can implement some of these strategies and that's that's one of the things I'm most excited about this podcast is the various
00:55:00
Speaker
things and modalities and ways of being that we're going to dive into that can be implemented into your life. But I think also talked about like in a really real raw way that it doesn't feel other or overly intellectual or something that is abstract in some way. It's like how does it become
00:55:24
Speaker
tangible? How do we implement these things into our life in a really real way? And how do we talk about the emotions and the frustrations and all the things that kind of rise up around doing that? I feel like, you know, not oversimplifying it. Do you think there is anything, you know, problematic about mindfulness?
00:55:50
Speaker
No, not about like mindfulness itself. I do kind of feel like it's becoming a word like natural, like I fly to things that I'm like, I don't know if that's really mindfulness. Like I see it being diluted, you know, I see it being commercialized right now and diluted. And I think that's a little problematic because it makes it seem really external. You know, and I don't think mindfulness is
00:56:19
Speaker
or should be commodified. And I say that as I am talking on the first episode of my podcast. But that's the one thing I see that's problematic about mindfulness today, is that it's turning into something that's, it's being diluted in a way, I think. And, but at the same time, maybe, maybe all that content's out there to help people
00:56:49
Speaker
find their own path. Yeah. And I think there's like, it's a double edged sword, right? Like I agree with you. You don't want something to be completely, you know, you, I think it comes down to intention. If the making it a commodity of making it a business, something you make money off of and the, but the intention is to help more people and to delineate the information down and reach more people, then I don't think that's such a bad thing.
00:57:13
Speaker
because I do believe, this is something I've had to really come to terms with as a yoga teacher, as a mindfulness coach and breathwork instructor, is that I also deserve to be compensated for what I do. It is time taken out of my life, and it takes a tremendous amount of dedication. But my intention for doing it is because I love it and because I want to help other people.
00:57:39
Speaker
So I think if the intention is, if there's right intention involved in it, then it's okay if it becomes a bit of a commodity or also too, if it gets kind of watered down or generalized. Cause I do think that's the case. Like take something like, you know, the Barbie movie. So you have the Barbie movie that is kind of touching on these really complex ways, but it's putting it, there were some people I've heard that were felt like, well, it's, you know, it's the Hollywood machine talking about this. I don't need the,
00:58:08
Speaker
Hollywood machine talking about something about matters of feminism. But I think what ends up happening is sometimes if sometimes kind of the masses, mass culture can meet a more complex subject and they can create something that's really resonates with people beautifully and moves people. And I think that there's so many different ways we could have one conversation and it's so important to reach
00:58:38
Speaker
many, many people. And I think that movie did that really beautifully. So I just think it's an interesting thing. It's like, yes, you want this push-pull between you don't want something diluted and you don't want it... What bothers me is when I see it applied to like a product that's clearly not mindful, that clearly is like polluting the earth or doing...
00:58:59
Speaker
like natural, honestly, even things like natural water, when you look like natural flavoring in like a sparkling water, when in actuality it's not natural at all because there's no definition for it. So I totally agree with you. I think that, and then I wonder, do you think there are any questions or issues around privilege or access? I think everyone, everyone can breathe, everyone can pause. Yeah. I think that
00:59:27
Speaker
the word mindful as a commodity exists in a space that I think when you when you attach it to having to have a meditation practice or yoga practice or things that you know not everyone has the money or the time to commit to those larger investments I think that's when you start kind of wiggling into that
00:59:54
Speaker
that privilege space, you know? Yeah. But I think that mindfulness itself, it's like what you said, just being curious about why you're thinking away, why you're feeling away, identifying that thought and that feeling and then letting it rest, you know, and anyone can do that anywhere, any done place. Agreed. Agreed. I also think to the internet has democratized things and social media in the sense that and look, there's also a lot of problems with it. But
01:00:25
Speaker
If you have the access to a computer or you have the access to use somebody's computer or a library card, you can get your hands on some of these concepts and you can start to integrate them into your day-to-day life. But I would agree with you when you start talking about like, well, I need to have an hour and a half yoga practice four times a week, or I need to have a membership to a studio or a coat. Those are things that come with privilege for sure. Definitely.
01:00:55
Speaker
But I think the concepts themselves, they are out there and they are available and they're there for everybody. You're living in the age of Aquarius, the age of information. Absolutely, absolutely. Well, this has been fun. We did a thing. We did it. We did a thing. Is there anything else you want to touch on before
01:01:25
Speaker
signing off, anything you think we haven't talked about? I mean, I know that there's a million things we probably haven't talked about on this subject that we will talk about in the coming weeks, but for today, I guess, for today. I think you did a good job just kind of having an open conversation about mindfulness. And like you said before, there's no start, there's no finish, it's a practice, it's a process. And you can start anywhere.
01:01:55
Speaker
you know, to start anywhere at any time. And there's no, there's no one holding you or foot to the fire on how to do it or when to do it or how much to do it. But the more you do it, the easier it gets like any practice. I
Conclusion and Social Media Invite
01:02:09
Speaker
agree. Don't forget to follow us on social at everyday mindful podcast, Instagram and Facebook. I will see you and if you liked our little chat, subscribe. It would be great if you gave us all the stars, please. Same time, same place next week. Bye. Bye.