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2. Part 1: Grief through the eyes of a child - with Daniel Rinaldi
87 Plays5 years ago
In this candid chat with my brother Daniel Rinaldi, he shares his journey of experiencing the death of our sister, when he was only 7 years old,. He also shares his process of grief and mourning and the tools that have helped him.
Links: Background music created by www.rinaldisound.net
Daniel Rinaldi on IG @oneplanetmusic.fm or www.oneplanetmusic.com
Video that Daniel did in honor of our sister Zorana https://youtu.be/sh15lR2eSN0
Quotes mentioned in the interview come from the Baha'i writings. For more information about the Baha'i Faith www.bahai.org
Do you have a story you'd like to share? Get in touch with me www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com
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Transcript
Why do we grieve when death is a messenger of joy?
00:00:00
Speaker
I have made death a messenger of joy to thee, why dost thou grieve? And there's more to the quote, but just in that, you know, saying I have made death a messenger of joy to thee, meaning to us, why do we grieve? And I just find that so perplexing in the sense of like, it's so contrary to
00:00:30
Speaker
what we're taught socially in our culture as to what death is.
Introducing 'Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between' podcast
00:00:43
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast.
00:00:50
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:06
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:29
Speaker
All right.
Meet Kendra's brother, Danny Rinaldi
00:01:31
Speaker
Well, today I've got my little brother on the line. Ermanijo. So, ermanijo means little brother, and we call each other a whole bunch of nicknames. So, this is Daniel Rinaldi, officially, but I'll be probably calling him Danny through the interview because that's how I refer to him, or ermanito, or ermanijo.
00:01:52
Speaker
So, you guys can kind of know what it is I'm saying when I'm saying that. So, Danny, welcome. Thank you so much. Sis, Ken, Big Sis. I'm trying to think of all the nicknames I have for you. Well, you don't, yeah, Big Sis, Emanota, Kendris, yeah. I can make them up on the spot.
00:02:16
Speaker
You do. Yeah, it's funny how in our culture, at least in Colombia, some of the nicknames that we make are sometimes even longer than the name itself, you know. Like Kendrew's cheese. Yeah, or Kendri Fera.
00:02:35
Speaker
so yeah so all these like longer names um which is different i think in the states i think or in english speaking cultures it's usually like the shortening of a name but at least not in our culture it's usually it can be longer than the actual name
Changing the stigma around discussing death
00:02:52
Speaker
Anyway, I'm so happy to have you and it will be a very, like I just said right before, chillaxing conversation, which sounds really odd being the fact that we're talking about grief. But I just want it to be a casual conversation about the topic. And just because I think we have a whole bunch of stigma around grief and
00:03:16
Speaker
death and I really just want to change that stigma and make it be something that people talk about more openly without it being something so heartbreaking every single time the topic comes up. Would you agree?
00:03:33
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I'm all for it. OK, cool. So, Danny, just as we kind of just set the stage here, just tell us a little bit of where actually where are you living right now? Just for the audience. Yeah, so I'm living in Bogota, Colombia.
00:03:50
Speaker
Very cool. All right, so we and you are a dad of two. That's right. Husband to one. Husband to one. Yeah, I think just husband to one. Definitely dad of two of a six year old and a four year old.
00:04:07
Speaker
Very busy time. So we're trying to fit in this interview before the kids get back from school just as this parenting dynamic goes. We try to fit into the pockets of our life.
Danny's first encounter with grief as a child
00:04:20
Speaker
So Danny, so since we're talking about the subject of grief, I want us to talk a little bit about what was your first experience with death and the concept of grief that you recall.
00:04:33
Speaker
Um, well, I don't remember dying. Okay, not your death. Let's see. Definitely. I think my first big memory would be my sister's passing.
00:04:54
Speaker
My sister's around. How old were you? How old were you when our sister died? I was seven. She passed in 96. My sister, your sister, our sister. Our sister. Yeah, I remember that night so vividly. At that point, we were living in Cali, Colombia. I was seven years old, as I mentioned, and that night we went to go see Matilda in theaters.
00:05:24
Speaker
And we came back to see that there were a few missed calls. And you, Kendra, were calling because at that point you were living in California, right? I was, yeah. And our sister was in Seattle at that moment. So just to kind of set the stage a little bit about that, if you want to share.
00:05:43
Speaker
Sure, yeah, definitely. Yeah, basically, so our sister is Rana was living in Seattle because she was doing what in our faith is called like a period of service, basically that taking time off of studies and work to dedicate to service and the particular way she chose to serve was through dance. And so she was serving in a dance company.
00:06:04
Speaker
based out of Seattle, but they would travel around the US touring and the dances were all with like spiritual and universal themes like unity and diversity and equality of men and women and against like drugs and alcohol, et cetera. And let's see, Kendra, you were in California, you were studying, I believe,
00:06:35
Speaker
when we got the, when we came back from watching Matilda, we got home and you called again. And if I remember correctly, basically. Yeah, you can share your part. Yeah. Cause it's interesting. Cause it will be very interesting to see what the memory of a seven year old. Absolutely. Cause at that time I was 21. So that just,
00:06:58
Speaker
That's why it's so interesting because one of the things that is very unique to a grief experience is that it's unique to each individual. Like even if we both experience the loss of a sister, the passing of a sister, and then our sister Catherine, who I'll also interview, is just interesting to see the perspective. So in this case, like your perspective and your memory of a seven-year-old in this process.
00:07:24
Speaker
Yeah. So go ahead and share your point of view.
The tragic news of their sister's passing
00:07:27
Speaker
Sure. So you called and I think the first call that my dad answered from you, you were saying that our sister was in a car accident and that was the news so far and that it was a bad car accident. But I think it wasn't until the second call that you said that she had passed. Is that correct?
00:07:51
Speaker
So I had been trying to reach you guys. I had called and called and there was no answering machine back then at the house. And so I'd been dialing and dialing because the accident had already occurred. And since I was the one in the States, they had called me and I had been trying to call you guys.
00:08:09
Speaker
And it was very frustrating on my end. I just remember feeling so helpless and just trying to reach you guys. And when I finally got through that you guys already answered, I had already found out the news that she had passed. But by the time you guys answered the phone, you already knew. Because when my dad, so even though I thought I was calling dad, initially was to tell him about the accident. By the time you guys arrived,
00:08:37
Speaker
She had already passed away because it was only like about two hours or so after the accident that our sister died. And it was a car accident just for the listeners to know. And also just to clarify, sometimes people think like, oh, somebody was driving recklessly or something, but no.
00:08:57
Speaker
I mean, there was black ice on the road and the car skid and hit an electric pole like right where she was sitting in the passenger seat. She was a passenger, yeah. She was the only one that passed away. The others had some minor injuries, but yeah. So by the time you guys, so when I called you guys and dad answered, I could hear Catherine crying or sister Catherine crying in the background.
00:09:23
Speaker
And so at that moment, my dad's like, yeah, we already know. So what happened was that in that whole process of me trying to get a hold of you guys, you guys got a call from the Safadas, which are the parents of another girl that was in the dance group with our sister. And they got you guys, they got my parents on the phone. But they already knew that Zirana had passed away. So when they called, they called and said,
00:09:52
Speaker
are condolences without, yeah, without dad or mom. Yeah. Oh yeah. So when they called, they said our condolences. So imagine they're here. You guys have just arrived. Correct. They had not even known the news that they didn't even know the news that's around. I had been in a car accident. So it's kind of like you guys are arriving home from this movie.
00:10:16
Speaker
they ring the, of course, I'd been trying to call but didn't reach you. They ring in dad or mom answers the phone. And it'd be interesting to hear, of course, how my how dad remembers this, but and they say our condolences. And that's how they found out that news. So then when I called, they already knew. So, yeah, so then. But so if you want to say, do you remember when you then
00:10:42
Speaker
When they said it, how did you, when, so when dad, was it dad or mom or did you, what, how was it that you recall that moment of our parents finding out the news. And again, when they found out the news was through this way that I'm telling you right now, uh, that it was like an, by accident. Right. And, um, what, yeah. Yeah. I remember that moment because
00:11:09
Speaker
Well, not so much like the words and like those specifics, but more of the visuals and the emotions. And I remember, you know, it was at night and it was pretty late. And I remember there were just like a few lamps on, like we didn't have like the lights, so to speak. It was pretty dim lighting. And I remember my sister, like I remember I didn't know how to react.
00:11:37
Speaker
to the news I was sort of I guess numb numb to it and
00:11:47
Speaker
because it's something unfamiliar too. It's not something you've ever heard before. You had never heard, because our grandmother had not, nobody in our family at that point had ever passed away. Well, I mean, we can't say nobody in our family, but in terms of like. No, no, no, I mean, in terms, yeah. Yeah. While you were, while you were,
00:12:07
Speaker
while you were living, while in your seven years of childhood, that was the first time you were experiencing. Yes. Yeah, exactly. And I remember my sister Catherine, she she just started crying and she threw herself on the sofa face down and crying. And my like instinct was to copy her.
00:12:35
Speaker
I was like, I'm just going to do the same thing. So I threw myself down on the sofa face down and just started crying. But it was more out of a mimicking reaction rather than a natural one, if that makes any sense.
00:12:51
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You were copying a behavior because it was what is around. Which actually, that actually gets to what I was going to just even say now. Because it's interesting because I have a feeling that a lot of times how we learn how to react to the death of somebody or something like that comes from exactly what you just said. Either seeing what's expected around people, you know, cry, people,
00:13:19
Speaker
do this so it's more like that copied behavior that we do or we've seen it in the movies or we've seen it you know or whatever it is that as children how else would we know how to
00:13:33
Speaker
react so it's interesting that you actually do recall just copying her because you actually didn't really know what to to do so just copied her physical um behavior wow then at what point did it actually like click for you because you guys came to the states um
00:13:51
Speaker
So she passed away December 17th, this is 1996. This is the year that she, December 17th, 1996. You guys arrived at the states December 19th, because the funeral was the 20th. So do you remember anything of those two days before you guys traveled to the states for the funeral? And yeah, do you have any memories of those two days prior to coming to the actual funeral?
00:14:20
Speaker
You know, I don't. It's sort of a blur. It's a blur. How about when you came for the funeral? Do you remember coming to the funeral? Do you remember anything of that?
00:14:33
Speaker
of how you felt, a lot of times it may not even be like how what the, even the little instances itself, and a lot of it too, we have to have in mind that we've shared of course through the years, cause it's been so many years that some of these things that you may re remember, we may be more of remember what we've told you, right? So, um,
00:14:53
Speaker
Right. So it would be through pictures or video or through exactly. So then you kind of create those memories based on that. But yeah.
Kendra's role during the family tragedy
00:15:00
Speaker
So do you do you remember anything in particular? So I don't know if I remember the actual funeral.
00:15:10
Speaker
Because I've been to the grave site several times. Right, exactly. That I think my memory of the grave site, it's all woven into one memory, if that makes any difference. Because it's also been many, many years since I go to the grave site. So it's not like I have a recent memory of the grave site. So for me, it's all kind of lumped into one memory.
00:15:34
Speaker
Okay. So that day was kind of actually lightly snowing. We actually were underneath a tent. They had to put like a tent and stuff for them. So where we were standing for the funeral. And actually where we had the funeral was not actually where the burial happened afterwards. So itself.
00:15:54
Speaker
but the like where we had like the ceremony and the and so forth but um even that is sometimes also even as me as an adult i still recall that more like of a movie watching a movie that's kind of how i remember a lot of it and since i was there before like the memorial that kind of i remember it more like of a movie but i want to if i can ask you a question about that yes
00:16:18
Speaker
Just to switch roles. You're gonna swap that. Yeah, you're gonna switch that. Yeah, of course, since you have your own podcast now. Welcome to my podcast. Mine is called Gratitude and Grief and everything. Oh, swap it? You're gonna swap it? No, so you said it's like a movie, but do you think that was purposeful? Were you trying to separate yourself to not emotionally connect?
00:16:46
Speaker
it's it's really weird because how I remember my first memory of it was actually when I arrived and all the emotions there and I see myself and I remember how
00:17:00
Speaker
I'm going to say this in quotes, it would be like strong I was, and I'm saying because I was a first member of the family to arrive. So I felt this really sense of responsibility to be a certain way since I was the first person they were seeing.
00:17:21
Speaker
And even just because we had a memorial on the 18th, which I was the only member of the family there, because you guys were still trying to get all your paperwork and all that kind of stuff together to be able to fly. Because you didn't have an ID that was needed after you turned seven, like you need an ID to be able to travel out of Columbia. So your ID had not been processed yet. So even all that paperwork, all of that had to be done in those two days before,
00:17:47
Speaker
you guys traveled. There's a whole bunch of things that happened in those two days of the amount of support that you guys had from the community there, which could be for a whole other podcast. I think that in that memorial, when I even see videos of that or
00:18:08
Speaker
It's as if I had extra help. It's as if I had her there alongside me, helping me in those moments. I really, truly felt so supported by Zorana during that time, that energy and that support. So when I say that it was as if it was not even me, it's because I can't even imagine
00:18:35
Speaker
being able to personally have the strength that I did without it having been either by her help or the grace of God. I really do truly believe that in terms of
00:18:46
Speaker
you know, just how, yeah, how I directed. But for you, so I want to go back again. Let's swap again, mister. Don't be hijacking my podcast here. Another day we'll do it that way and that way we can share my side of the story. I'll invite you as a guest interviewee or interviewer or interviewer, and I'll be the interviewee.
00:19:08
Speaker
I don't know if you remember, but after the funeral, we all went and hung out at the housewares or at the host family where she was at. Do you remember any of that? Bad idea. At the Schneider's. Yeah, okay. Exactly. At the Schneider's. We were there with a few of our close friends, family friends that we had grown up with that also came to the funeral. Do you remember
00:19:31
Speaker
What was the feeling and what so was it somber was it happy was it what do you remember that feeling. I mean yeah I guess what we did you remember what we were doing.
00:19:47
Speaker
I'm just trying to tickle my brain a little bit. So we were doing a lot of games. Yeah, so we were doing a lot of games. And we were actually doing a lot of playing. We were laughing a lot. So we were just all just hanging out and enjoying the company and all of us just really bonding over this. There was, of course, the heaviness that we had just had the loss of Zorana, but at the same time,
00:20:15
Speaker
just really being present with each other and all of us just laughing. So it's interesting because intertwined with grief, there can be little snippets of joy in that process. And that's, I think, for me, what I recall so well in that moment of the funeral. And then that also translates, and we'll kind of fast forward in just a bit, to our mother's passing.
00:20:43
Speaker
Because that's also intertwined since this this process is not but I want to say something that I recall you saying That really really struck to
Danny's spiritual connection to his late sister
00:20:53
Speaker
me and I don't remember if you I don't know if you remember this but we were we after being in Seattle because that's where sister was buried we went to California and we were hanging out we were at because that's where I was living with our grandmother and we were
00:21:08
Speaker
all sitting at the dinner table and you said, and you said this in Spanish, but we're finally all together because you're on us here with us in spirit. And I remember it. I was just like, like crying and happy at the same time to see that purity of
00:21:28
Speaker
heart that you really truly there was like not really the aspect of really missing her because it was somehow as if you your um the innocent soul of the seven-year-old really understood that there was no real difference um
00:21:49
Speaker
Because she was still there that and that just that just really really Yeah, was very meaningful to me. And so I don't know if you remember that I mean, yeah, I definitely don't remember saying it but I know You've told the story and I think my dad's told the story as well Yeah, I don't know what else to say in terms of like that but yeah, I do I
00:22:17
Speaker
Like what I can say more in terms of like you, you asked at one point, I didn't answer like as to when it clicked for me. Yeah. When did it pass? And I don't think if for say there's ever been like a click, I mean, I don't know. I think that click definition can mean different things for different people, but I've seen it more of a process. Um.
00:22:47
Speaker
And I think some people might describe that clique as like, oh, I got it. She passed. Now I'm sad. Now I'm grieving. I don't know. I don't know if it's been like that for me. It's just been more of an accepting process. When we do get to talk about more of the present,
00:23:07
Speaker
just in the past few months, I've felt more connected to her, to Zorana than ever before. You know, I share a little bit of that. Yeah, but but it was also because but it was also because you started
00:23:24
Speaker
a compilation of all these videos that we were digitizing when we turned them to like, yeah, absolutely do, because that was really a big turning point. So this is however many years, 24 years later. So basically, just, you know, my dad, finally, he had this huge box of like, VHS tapes and beta tapes.
00:23:54
Speaker
high eight camera tapes and he went to digitize all of it and got it back in a bunch of files. And since I'm involved with media and stuff like that, I offered to help him organize the files. And so I start dividing by categories and by family and just different types of categories. And so I'm just looking through all this footage. I mean, we're talking about hours and hours.
00:24:24
Speaker
nearly a hundred hours of footage. I'm not looking at it, you know, from beginning to end, but just like skimming. And I'm seeing all these things of my sister that I had never seen before. And I've, so I think that's one big reason in the past few months, I felt so connected because my memories of her are very limited. Even though I had seven years of life, of my life with her,
00:24:55
Speaker
Obviously they were my first years, so therefore the memory in those first years is very volatile. And, or it's very weak. And so I feel so blessed to have been able to like work on these videos and for her anniversary in December, just in 2019, I was able to make just like a short like compilation.
00:25:21
Speaker
of putting together different snippets in chronological order from when she was a baby to just basically days before her passing away. And I just connected, I remember, I really don't recall, aside from that first night when I threw myself on the sofa to cry,
00:25:50
Speaker
uh, copying my, my sister Catherine, I don't, I don't think I ever really recall like crying for her. And again, crying is like a physical manifestation of emotions, but it doesn't always mean that if you don't cry, you're not sad or anything like that, but it does symbolize something. And it's different for everybody, but like I was editing this video, I was just like nonstop crying. I was just like bawling.
00:26:19
Speaker
I guess after like 24 years of tears being cut back, I don't know. It was partly partly too because you actually got to meet her quote unquote like you got to get to know her now as an adult
00:26:35
Speaker
getting to know your sister through these videos, even though you've heard stories and so forth about her, to get to see her and seeing the way she was with you in all the videos, by the way, or listeners. Do you want to share what it was, how she was? Basically, most of the footage of her was holding me as a baby.
00:27:00
Speaker
yeah all the time yeah she was just like holding and just being so like cute with you know motherly yeah exactly and uh and that that really got to me and it's like um that's my sister yeah
00:27:25
Speaker
It's interesting because you see this is 20 something years old and later you know and that you're still being able to kind of have a cathartic moment about that release that you had never really fully had except as you said when you were mimicking
00:27:42
Speaker
um that you know Catherine crying uh copying her and a lot of times it's something that um that now that I do facilitate you know grief groups and things like that the people sometimes people that have just started a
The evolution of grief over time
00:27:58
Speaker
grieving process just feel
00:28:00
Speaker
as if there's going to be some end to it. But I know that personally, I don't feel grief really ends, it just changes through time and it just, because we also changed through time, right? So it starts kind of changing with you and
00:28:18
Speaker
the fact that 24 years later, you're still able, you were able to solve that way and have that release and that connection and that bond. That is one of those ways of seeing that. Now, Danny, I want to just transition and thank you for sharing that because that was such a special moment. Regarding your, if you want to share a little bit about your beliefs about
00:28:44
Speaker
death, what you grew up believing about death, and maybe how that translates a little bit into why maybe the grief process is a certain way, because I want to also touch into then the most recent of our, you know, or death, which would be the one of our mom. And so if you want to touch a little bit about that, of your beliefs about what happens when
Baha'i teachings on death as a joyful transition
00:29:12
Speaker
we die. Yeah, definitely.
00:29:14
Speaker
So yeah, definitely my beliefs are very much guided by the Baha'i teachings. And to give you like one quote that just kind of says it all. There's a quote by Baha'u'llah who's the founder, the prophet, founder of the Baha'i Faith. And he says, I have made death a messenger of joy to thee. Why does thou grieve?
00:29:42
Speaker
And there's more to the quote, but just in that, you know, saying I have made death a messenger of joy to thee, meaning to us, why do we grieve? And I just find that so perplexing in the sense of like, it's so contrary to what we're taught socially.
00:30:11
Speaker
in our culture as to what death is. Now, it doesn't mean that, like, I think, I mean, there's, there's definitely more quotes we can, we can pull up to have a bigger picture and I don't think that's the whole, that's the point of, of right now this discussion but
00:30:34
Speaker
Because basically, from what I understand, it's natural for us to be sad because we miss the person, right? But going further into what I believe and as to what the Baha'i teachings say is that basically death is a birth into a new life, into a new world.
00:31:01
Speaker
And that world is not a material world, like here we are in planet Earth. It's a spiritual world, which is very closely linked to the physical world, but it also operates on a different dimension.
00:31:23
Speaker
And so here also we're talking about like the nature of the soul, like basically just this idea that as human beings, we're not just body, but we are soul, we are spirit, and that that is our essence. And in a sense, like while we're on this planet, we're caged in, it's like a bird being caged in, and then finally being let out. Or, you know, another great analogy that is used in the writings that I love is like the light in the lamp,
00:31:53
Speaker
The light is not attached to the lamp, but it's manifested through the lamp. And if the lamp breaks or, you know, if it breaks, the light doesn't disappear. The energy is just transferred elsewhere.
00:32:12
Speaker
And so I really love these analogies that help us understand a little bit better the relationship between life after death because it's definitely mysterious and we'll never be able to comprehend it fully.
00:32:26
Speaker
Do you think yeah, do you think that because this is one of the things I Feel is that a lot of times when we grieve then And of course this in this series of podcasts I'll be interviewing people with very you know different beliefs and that's totally fine and I want to understand is how their own
00:32:50
Speaker
beliefs about death or about grieving have allowed them to have some kind of solace and comfort. So do you believe that with these beliefs, well I know that, I know for me have been a sense of comfort.
00:33:05
Speaker
And as I said, when you were seven years old, you saying, Serana's here with us in spirit, the fact that it was so part of already what you truly actually believed as the seven-year-old experiencing grief for the, you know, death for the first time, that played a huge part in how you processed your grief? Oh, I mean, definitely. And I think also, even though I can't speak for my seven-year-old self and exactly what my beliefs were,
00:33:35
Speaker
at that point or how, you know, how I thought about my beliefs. A big part I think had to do with my mom and how she was able to respond to the situation. She was so strong. And after my sister's passing that she was like, like she was totally accepting
00:34:04
Speaker
of the situation. Not that she wasn't sad at any moment, but in retrospect I think it was her example that helped me
00:34:15
Speaker
like materialize or see, yeah, like materialize the belief structure that we had. You know, it wasn't just like an ideology, like, oh, like it would be nice to believe that, you know, like death is actually meant to bring us joy because we're being birthed into a much greater world and in a sense accomplishing our life's purpose. And in getting closer to God,
00:34:45
Speaker
our creator, but I saw that manifested in her and it's like, oh, okay, so it's possible to actually put it into practice. And so I think that was a guiding principle for me since then. I just remembered that actually that same year in January of that year is when our grandmother passed away, our mom's mom. Do you remember
00:35:13
Speaker
Do you remember seeing, do you remember going to a funeral? I was in the state, so I don't know. Do you remember going to a funeral? I remember the funeral. Okay, you remember the funeral. And do you remember even how our mom was, so you see, I just even had forgotten that you had experienced, so you had kind of just experienced it in January and then of our grandmother and then in December of our sister. But do you remember then,
00:35:36
Speaker
how mom was in either contrast with the people around or do you recall any of that? I mean, no, it's not it's not vivid, for sure. But but I do recall
00:35:56
Speaker
other people, like non-family being so much more sad or being sadder, I don't know what's the correct way. Or expressing, at least expressing the sadness. At least physically, a lot more than my mom, you know, where she could like confidently speak in front of people about what had just happened, you know, like almost as if it was nothing, like as if it was just natural, like this is what's meant to happen.
00:36:23
Speaker
Yeah, because our mom and our grandmother both shared they were also members of the Baha'i faith. So so our mom since the age of 12, so she had basically been brought up with these beliefs as well, grew up with these beliefs. And so it definitely had a different
00:36:40
Speaker
She had a different way and how she viewed and even just in contrast with our dad and my dad even said this very to us That on during that same time period when we were back in the States we were in the car the family for the five of us
00:36:56
Speaker
And dad saying, you kids are so lucky. You're so lucky that you've believed, you've had these beliefs all your life. Because dad grew up in a different upbringing and then became a Baha'i later on. So his beliefs about death and so forth of the Baha'i of faith kind of was something he then embraced, but it was not what his upbringing had been. So he said, it's like he would still kind of
00:37:25
Speaker
that it was kind of like being stuck between what you knew you wanted to believe rather than what you had been brought up to believe or that society around him had brought up. So it was definitely different for him than it was for mom who had
00:37:42
Speaker
been brought you know had believed this way you know since childhood and for us who had also been you know brought up to believe in this hopeful way of seeing death. So that played I think an interesting dynamic in how we all grieved based on maybe the how long we'd been.
00:38:02
Speaker
So I know that you've experienced death since and I want to talk a little bit about our mom's passing. Now this concludes part one of the conversation I had with my brother and part two will be in the following episode.
00:38:30
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:38:59
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.