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The Shakers. Are you buying in? Season 2, Episode 24.
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Last week we posed a question. The Shakers...are you buying in? On episode 24 of season 2 we get into the furniture.
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Partnership Announcement: Green Street Joinery & Montana Brand Tools
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Understanding Shaker Furniture: Mixed Reactions
00:01:06
Speaker
Welcome back, everybody. We're here continuing on with the Shaker period of furniture. Yeah. We left last week with a question about the Shakers. Yeah. Are you buying in? Yeah. We're juries out. That's for sure. Excuse me. I have to admit that I went into these Shaker episodes much more. I'm a fan.
00:01:36
Speaker
or believing I was a fan, not knowing that much about him. But I came away a little bit cynical. Yeah. Yeah, I feel kind of the same way. I didn't know a ton about the Shakers, not the specifics, knew the overarching ideas and stuff, but now it kind of feels less impressive. Yeah.
00:02:07
Speaker
i don't know what to make of like they're sort of one-foot in and one-foot out kind of thing you know they seem to contradict themselves but i guess that just comes with the human yeah being human and try to set up any kind of really uh...
Design Philosophy: Balancing Functionality and Practicality
00:02:26
Speaker
or steer kind of uh... living arrangement it's you know they don't live in a vacuum so
00:02:38
Speaker
Well, this episode, we're going to talk about the furniture. Okay. And I've titled it Form Follows Function. Right. Because that's kind of how they looked at it. In our world, we like to sort of marry the two. Yeah. You know, we want everything to be pleasing. We want it to accentuate the materials, our craftsmanship.
00:03:07
Speaker
We also want to function. We're not like, um, I don't know why I should not going to point out any particular people, but like, you know, the stuff on social media where it's like, Oh, that's cool. But this, this doesn't work in the real world. Yeah. Like a chair that's like made out of concrete and it's just like a 90 degree. Yeah. Yeah. Our stuff.
00:03:30
Speaker
to sell it it has to work into somebody's life right i mean other one nobody's buying our stuff to set up on a pedestal and just look at
Custom Furniture Challenges: Meeting Client Needs
00:03:41
Speaker
uh... yet they this as though you know if if it's next to the bad they gotta be able to open that drawer night after night it's gotta work yes seamlessly the chairs gotta be comfortable the bookcase testa you know hold up all the books
00:03:59
Speaker
There's all these things to me. The coat closet has to fit a coat. Yeah. I'd say at this point, the business is really function based because most of our, most of our clientele comes to us because the function is so specific that they can't find it otherwise. Not saying that that it'll always be that way or, or, or not, but
00:04:26
Speaker
That's what most of our jobs are. It's like, well, we have this specific function that we need to achieve and I can't buy it and I can't, or I can't find anybody else to make it. So, um, that's like where a lot of our business comes from, I think. Yeah. Would you say that we kind of design from the inside out in that regard where.
00:04:46
Speaker
I'd say most times our hands are tied because we have these function and spatial constraints that we have to meet that, you know, sometimes parts of the aesthetic have to be sacrificed because there's just, there's no way to make it work. Right, right. Yeah.
00:05:05
Speaker
Um, the space requirements, always a biggie, you know, how it fits into their home, into the space in their home. And then they usually want to cram as much into it as possible. Right. Um, so yeah.
Practicality in Shaker Design Principles
00:05:22
Speaker
And so we're kind of like balancers of these things we, we want to express and we want to express our own artistic styles as well. Um,
00:05:34
Speaker
So we're pleasing many people with the final design, including ourselves, generally. So a shake of furniture, form files function. Ideally, our furniture can reveal something about how we live and what we value. I kind of like that statement. But in reality, other factors like cost,
00:06:02
Speaker
space and what is available in the marketplace ends up limiting us or diverting us from our true values.
Historical Impact and Misconceptions of Shaker Furniture
00:06:10
Speaker
Yeah. Like, uh, I have, um, this, uh, bathroom vanity upstairs that I bought at, I don't remember it was Home Depot or Lowe's and it is the biggest piece of junk, but,
00:06:26
Speaker
I wasn't going to make it another piece of furniture, you know, I just, I couldn't do it. I need it now. I do. And I'm not me. And like, it's got like one of those toe kicks. That's an add on piece of like eighth inch and I like bubbles out. I mean, yeah. Yeah. It's
00:06:47
Speaker
uh... every time i stand it's been for quite you know twenty years i still were bristle at it to crack out of the yeah no it's not coming out because the way it went in like the tiles around it there it was it's really uh... like one of the doors like rubs on the tile when you open it up it's it's a real clown show but uh...
00:07:17
Speaker
I think I had to lift it up and drop it down into the space because when I took the old one out, there was no tile back there. So I had to get one that fit exactly in the spot. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you're talking about. Like they tiled up to the old vanity. That's like the linoleum in my kitchen. Same thing. They went up to the cabinets. So what you got is what you got now.
00:07:47
Speaker
And that is the reality. Cost, space, time, what's available. Even people like us, we're big talkers, and we're pretty big walkers, too. Yeah. But we can't do it all the time. So we might believe that form should follow function, but own an uncomfortably lumpy, hand-me-down desk chair. What?
00:08:14
Speaker
well i see we might believe that for you know i i sometimes i uh... i'm going to uh... uh... uh... i'm i'm writing into her too much pros we might believe the form fought should fall function but we own an uncomfortably lumpy hand me down desk chair that's our compromise or we might fantasize about huge snugly sofas but only be able to haul a spindly love seat up the stairs there uh... really got my king size uh... bit of the
00:08:45
Speaker
up the stairs over here. Yeah. So it's inspirational to look at the Shakers, a religious sect who designed their homes and furnishings to be strictly in line with their values and ideas and in the process help shape modern style in general. So yeah, they, they, I mean, we may not agree with all the talk, but they walked the walk.
00:09:12
Speaker
I'm not going to use that cliche again in this episode. Some of the most enduringly popular American antique furniture, known as Shaker Style, was made not by a single designer, but by a group of people who shared a set of beliefs and an aesthetic.
00:09:32
Speaker
At its height, I'll remind you, the Shaker movement included some 6,000 members living in 19 villages, stretching from Maine to now Indiana. It was Ohio before. They're getting west.
Craftsmanship in Shaker Furniture Design Elements
00:09:46
Speaker
Well, it's kind of north, no? No, you go Ohio. I thought Indiana sat on top of Ohio. Indiana, let me think. Indiana's next to Illinois. Yeah.
00:10:02
Speaker
And that's Lake Michigan. Ohio's next to Pennsylvania. Yeah. Is Ohio on? No, Ohio's on top of Kentucky. No, Indiana's on top of Ohio. No, on top of Ohio? Yeah. That's Lake Erie. No. We're going to get to the bottom of this.
00:10:33
Speaker
I guess it is. Yeah, it is west. I didn't know that Ohio shared that so much. Lakefront? Yeah. Who knew? So is Ohio next to Indiana? Yeah, and then Michigan's on top of both. I didn't even know that Michigan and Ohio shared a border. Me either. You learn something new every day. So the Shakers invented Ohio.
00:11:01
Speaker
that's all that's funny if you listen to last week's episode they met in maps too they stretch from maine to indiana uh... uh... yet this tiny group of people six thousand in total at their height they had a pretty impressive impact on american style and design uh... i hope we can uh... figure out why that is
00:11:30
Speaker
The Shakers believed that ostentatiousness was self-indulgent and sinful, so they avoided anything that could be considered showy. They had limited resources and used them as economically as possible as an expression of gratitude for their provision in the first place. All right, so what's the result?
00:11:53
Speaker
of their modesty, a style of furniture that is the embodiment of the adage form follows function. Well, maybe, right? I mean the trestle table was form follows function? Yeah. Furniture was made thoughtfully with functional form and proportion.
00:12:17
Speaker
Rather than using ornamentation such as inlays, carvings, metal poles or veneers, which were seen as prideful or deceitful, they developed creative solutions such as asymmetrical drawer arrangements and multi-purpose forms to add visual interest.
Critique and Appreciation of Shaker Design
00:12:36
Speaker
Now I really dig the asymmetrical drawer arrangement. I always thought that that was a stickly thing.
00:12:44
Speaker
talking about T like big at the bottom and small at the top yeah yeah yeah I mean haven't we seen that in some of these I mean what about hide the high boys yeah they didn't have all the same size drawer no I mean we are talking about some overlap in terms of time periods here but yeah we're we're sort of poking more holes in
00:13:09
Speaker
what the shakers are credited with inventing, I'm going to say. It seems like there's been a lot of misappropriated credit. Yeah. Or taken. Yeah. It's probably given. That's my impression. Yeah. You know, someone starts to study the shakers and say, wow, you know, these guys are, they got some good ideas and this and that and things start, you know, getting attributed to them.
00:13:35
Speaker
you know it it makes me think uh... back to you were marking there were so many shaker pieces at the met which is a really important museum yeah uh... the metropolitan museum of art in new york city uh... and that may have influenced what we as a a culture or society no of the shakers and believe about them yeah
00:14:02
Speaker
You know, a couple of highfalutin' folks got it, you know, being their bottom about the Shakers. Said, this stuff is great. You know, look at all the things that we can attribute to them. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't know. Look at a guy like Duncan Fife. Right. Or like Thomas Sheridan.
00:14:27
Speaker
you know people who are contemporaries of the of the shakers and what they were doing was so much more advanced right and yet i don't uh... you're right uh... and five is just sort of like uh... and he's not a footnote he's one of the main players but he's just kind of like one of the guys who came to fame in the empire and sort of the end of the federal period
00:14:55
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, you hear casual woodworkers talking about the Shakers and how great they were, but you never hear anybody talking about Thunk at Five. No. You know, unless you're like a real furniture nerd. Yeah. You know, an antiques person. Right, right. Um, well, here's an unknown quote that may or may not describe the Shakers.
00:15:24
Speaker
Simplicity carried to an extreme becomes elegance. Still not finding the elegance or sophistication that keeps getting referred to. Yeah, I can see that in some maybe other designs, like maybe more Asian design, like a Japanese thing comes to mind.
00:15:49
Speaker
There's a certain amount of elegance to it and there's definitely simplicity. But the shakers look a little bit, their stuff looks a little bit clunky compared to elegant. Yeah. It's austere. Like you said before, that's the adjective that I think of. So let's remind ourselves of the characteristics of shaker furniture. Native woods with natural finishes, high quality materials throughout.
00:16:18
Speaker
gentle tapers and curves with simple turnings, understated, yeah for sure, high levels of craftsmanship, which together with high quality materials equals longevity, and traditional joinery, mortise and tenon, dovetail joinery, wooden poles, usually that mushroom shape,
00:16:42
Speaker
And honesty in their design, they like to call it, the form-fouling function, simplicity, utility, nothing overwrought. And they sought to apply harmony and balance
00:17:00
Speaker
in order to every aspect of their daily lives. And furniture is such a huge part of our environment, our indoor environment. So I'm sure they gave it a lot of thought. So let's admire some Shaker Classic furniture here. Here's the box.
00:17:20
Speaker
Everybody knows the shaker box. If you don't, it's a wooden oval box with the, what would you call that? That tongue, that dual tongue in the... Yeah, I'm not sure what the name for it would be. But they made these things... Yeah, it's a bent, a thin bent wooden oval box.
00:17:51
Speaker
Um, by the hundreds, maybe the thousands probably. They have, you know, they're nailed. Um, right. Usually. Yeah. I think they nail them and like bend over the inside of the nail. Like a, uh, what'd they call that? We talked about that in colonial. Here's a little bit bigger one. Three teeth. Definitely cool looking.
00:18:20
Speaker
Oh yeah. I mean, this, I, I don't, I don't know of any other box before the Shakers did this. We could, uh, we could certainly attribute the Shaker box. Man, that table has gotten a lot of play. Yeah. This is what, three or four times we've seen it. This is he, this table's appeared in every episode of the Shaker. I do like this table. I dislike these trestles down here, but I like the top and the, I wouldn't mind seeing another view of this table.
00:18:50
Speaker
Yeah, apparently none exists. And I bet there's the same candle stand. Yeah, this I like. It's got some interest to it. Mm hmm. Nice curves. Reminds me of like a Hydra.
00:19:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's got like a tripod kind of stand of curved legs. You know, so almost semicircular on the underside. Yeah. Nice, simple round top. It's got good proportions. I mean, I wouldn't necessarily call this out as being a shaker standard. Like if you show this to me and said, what period is this?
00:19:43
Speaker
I don't know if I'd say shaker. Yeah, it's like a very unadorned federal. Mm-hmm. You know, if it had like an eagle. Yeah. Pine cupboard 1800 to 1850. Now this is, I like this. Yeah. Are those overlay drawers with an inset door up there? Yeah. Just a single door. These are just fixed panels.
00:20:12
Speaker
I think this is once from the Met too, and we did see a picture of it in a previous episode with the door open. It's just this, the base, there's nothing, yeah. Functionally, I don't like that the bottom drawer is just like an inch and a half above the floor. Yeah, and you know, we've done a lot of talking about the asymmetrical drawers, but a lot of what we've seen have symmetrical drawers. Six symmetrical drawers, this is four.
00:20:42
Speaker
yeah they'll they and look at the bottom rail on that door that's awful and i mean it just kinda jumps out a little bit yeah uh... the flat panels on the side and the frame panel here seems a little weird just looks sort of unfinished they're just you know nailed on there uh... look at the way the top drawer
00:21:13
Speaker
meets the top of the case. Kind of overlays the nosing. I'm telling you. This is the best I got to offer.
Functional Design Challenges in Modern Furniture
00:21:34
Speaker
Here's a narrow cup, but I bet it's the same one. This I like. Yeah, this is probably my favorite piece.
00:21:45
Speaker
I like the raised panel. Mm-hmm. Just a simple, you know, chamfer, essentially, raised panel. Yeah, tall, thin cover with... I like the divisions, nice proportions. This looks like it's a golden ratio between the top and bottom. Two doors with the top door divided. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It still goes straight down to the floor. Yeah, it got a little bit more of a face frame there.
00:22:15
Speaker
at the bottom. What the hell? Well, it's letting me. Due to rights restrictions, this image cannot be enlarged, viewed at full screen or downloaded. Well, thanks a lot. What sense does that make? You could look at it, but only small. Those shakers, man.
00:22:44
Speaker
What's this work table? Describe the work table. It's got thin tapered legs. Yeah, very federal ear legs. And it has like a three inch apron and then a six inch drawer underneath of it. That is the weirdest thing.
00:23:15
Speaker
I don't know what these are over here. It might be more... Oh, you know what? I bet those are drawers on the side. And that's why it's got that big apron on the front. Not a real looker. Not elegant or sophisticated. No. If you squint at it, it looks pretty good.
00:23:44
Speaker
Yeah, it makes it seem a little bit more squashed up. Well, you just see the shape of it. The shape looks good. But this whole thing doesn't look good. This drawer situation? I wonder why they have the table overhanging so much. Like on the side, it's got to inhibit where you get into the drawer. Yeah, because it's about a four inch overhang. So form and function, they're in conflict there.
00:24:15
Speaker
Here's the rocker. I'm an earth rocker. I like the cane on that seat. Yeah.
00:24:27
Speaker
This is the typical rocker. Nice figured wood. I like the shape here. The joinery at the bottom that you mentioned there. Yep. Yeah. The actual rocker. What do you call these things? The skids? I don't know. I think they have a name like that. The rocker arms. Yeah. They have a nice shape to them. I like this little. That's true. And on there. The bridle joints are really nice touch. These finials are nice.
00:24:58
Speaker
This guy was excommunicated after putting those finials on though. Probably. Huh. That's interesting. Bench. Yeah. This almost looks like a modern interpretation of it. I was going to say it looks like an art piece almost. Yeah. So these are one piece going up to the crest rail. These are very shaker, these brackets. I know that. Yeah.
00:25:29
Speaker
But yeah, this to me is screaming like 1958. Right. It's like the supports, the legs are sort of like the silhouette of a chair here. Seems very high. Yeah. Like a chair height bench. Mm-hmm.
00:25:51
Speaker
with just a like a, although I guess a bench and a chair kind of the seat. Yeah. Same function. Let's say like a three and a half inch top slat and just a single rail for back support. This, I mean, I, the, I don't like these, but yeah, they're a little baloney. I do like this.
00:26:16
Speaker
I can see, I could see modifying that concept, like the three big main pieces of support, like, you know, doing something there and then two pieces of wood, you know, the seat and the slat. Oops. We'll see side chair.
00:26:44
Speaker
It's basically a version of the rocker. Yeah. Without the arms. I think we may have seen this in a previous episode. Yeah. Just like a ladder back chair with only one ladder. Oh yes, yes. That's their single splat chair. Yeah, that can go under the table. Right. Although the table's going to be pretty high if this is going to make it under there. I know.
00:27:15
Speaker
Revolving chair. Oh, that's the chair that we kind of liked. Yep. I like it from the seat up. Again, it looks non shaker. It looks like it came out of 50s. Yeah. 1950s.
00:27:35
Speaker
Right. And the interpretation of. I don't like the fact that these are flat like that. If they were on edge, like the candlestick table. I see. I like that a little bit more. I don't mind them. Seems weak. Yeah.
00:27:52
Speaker
I wonder if those are, you think those are four separate pieces? I think maybe these are probably bridal joints, half lap joint, and then this is sitting on top. That would be my guess for strength wise. Otherwise, like you say, the way the central pedestal is sitting on them. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm sure we've seen this at the sewing table. This I like. Yeah.
00:28:23
Speaker
This is the four drawer with two and two above. So it's six drawers. Yeah. Here we're seeing a graduated drawers. Um, I like the framing panel sides. Now what's, what's on the top? A ruler? Yeah, I guess. Cause it's for sewing. Oh, it's a yardstick. Oh my God.
Exploring Shaker Lifestyle, Beliefs, and Work Ethic
00:28:56
Speaker
Oh, there's some little beading around the drawers. Yeah, beaded inset. Maybe that's what it is too. The inset just looks so much better. It does. I like this little cutaway here. And look on the leg. This is a really, really classy piece compared to the others that we've seen for the most part. Yeah.
00:29:20
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, if you, uh, decrease the overhang on here, obviously don't put a yardstick on the front of it and put some, uh, more modern hardware on there, get yourself a nice contemporary piece. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. This we've seen, this is the six. Yep.
00:29:43
Speaker
Again, six all the same size. Just in a box, in a rectangle. It's really, and I mean the knobs, the placement I suppose is functional, but the size and everything, for all the talk about their proportion and aesthetics and everything, it really lacks those things, doesn't it? Yeah.
00:30:16
Speaker
I mean, it's super utilitarian looking. Mm-hmm. Well. Pine, apple and pear, that's made out of. Shaker door style. I think I may have read this book. One of the first woodworking books I read was, uh,
00:30:46
Speaker
the Thomas Moser book on shaker furniture. Yeah, this is the encyclopedia of shaker furniture. I mean, that those doors are interesting, especially the, you know, the door in the house. I find that interesting. Yeah. With the mid rail being the biggest. Yeah, this to me doesn't scream shaker. No. See more ornamentation, a larger crown molding.
00:31:18
Speaker
more intricate turnings here. I wonder if I just had some bad reference material. I mean, I did pull from the museum though. Yeah. Shakers were constantly experimenting with labor saving devices.
00:31:42
Speaker
and much of their furniture was made, here we go, made with the aid of circular saws, mortising machines, and steam-powered lathes. Using these tools, Shaker furniture makers reinterpreted traditional forms with an emphasis on utility and simplicity. Wait a minute, this is verbatim from episode one. Who wrote this?
00:32:12
Speaker
I think this is where it starts anew. All right. Yeah, built in, freestanding. Although their attitude toward design was based on religious beliefs, it anticipated in a remarkable way concepts of functionalism that became common about 100 years later. With the arts and crafts movement. Yeah.
00:32:41
Speaker
When the Shakers began making furniture in the late 18th century, what was the prevailing style in the US? Federal, then American Empire. Yeah. Very good. Reading off my notes. You don't have to tell the audience that.
00:33:04
Speaker
Unlike the previous periods of furniture design that we've covered, the shakers did not react to and were not influenced by outside circumstances. And there was no individual designer, cabinet maker, or visionary driving their aesthetic. But there kind of had to be, no? If it was also similar? Well, I don't know. Did they have a collective consciousness? I think a lot of that stuff was
00:33:35
Speaker
was just discussed, you know, it's like, this is what we're going to do. They, they must've had meetings every day because they went to church every day. Oh yeah. Probably multiple times a day. Right. And they had those big meeting houses and you know, the people who are working in the furniture detail, I don't think they could do whatever they wanted. Right. So they collectively came up with these designs. Yeah, exactly.
00:34:08
Speaker
uh... and there were any changes in direction uh... or reversals in reaction to a previous popular style you know we kind of notice you know one style is really ornate so then the next popular style is it's kind of uh... trim down right and they didn't attempt to emulate a style from elsewhere they were guided solely by their beliefs
00:34:37
Speaker
The outcome of that is beauties in the eye of the beholder. So work was the currency of their service. We know this, Rob. Well, it's a good refresher. Yeah. Because it was two weeks ago when we talked about this. All right.
00:34:55
Speaker
If the world was to be redeemed and restored to God, the Shakers would accomplish it by the dedicated labor of their hands." I mean, those are all, that's a nice sentiment. They believe that God dwelt in the details of their work and in the quality of their craftsmanship. Yeah, I'm with them on all this. Yeah. Might as well look at the God stuff, but insert whatever may be relevant to you there.
00:35:21
Speaker
Right. What's important. Well, this I love. All their devotion, which no longer went to family or home, was put into what they made. Yeah. I mean, I guess they don't, they don't have any family. If they're not, do they, do they get married? Um, I don't think so. Yeah. You know, they lived as brother and sister in these communes. So, uh, you know,
00:35:48
Speaker
I mean, part of it makes sense. If you think about how much energy our relationships take. That's hard to quantify. Right. And if you're not worried about like, what am I going to wear? How am I going to do this? How am I going to do that? Everything streamlines. You know, you have nothing else to focus on except your work. I want to know about some shaker food stuffs.
00:36:19
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I think they were like, must've been vegetables, meat and potatoes.
Influence of Shaker Beliefs on Design Aesthetics
00:36:25
Speaker
I don't know. It could be devilish. Yeah. And here's the famous quote, do your work as though you had a thousand years to live and as if you were to die tomorrow. I have more shaker maxims because, uh,
00:36:45
Speaker
I'm always trying to entertain the public. Maybe these are also falsely contributed to the shakers. Shakers said, don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful. But if it is both necessary and useful, don't hesitate to make it beautiful.
00:37:13
Speaker
You know we've been looking at a lot of shaker furniture Yeah Some of them look nice Yeah, that is the most of them just look necessary yes, I agree That is best which works best That seems to be the overriding Yeah, I need drawers this has drawers I
00:37:40
Speaker
All right, beauty rests on utility. OK, so they're seeing beautiful and beauty in a completely different way than we are. Yeah. If you change the definition of a word, you can. Mm-hmm. You must not lose one moment of time for you have none to spare. Wow. That's pretty severe. Yeah.
00:38:12
Speaker
They must have been putting in long days in the furniture shop. Yeah. I mean, that is a, that is a, you know, you could maybe change the wording on that a little bit. That is a good. Don't waste your time. Like the idea you're living on borrowed time. Yeah. Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity. All right. No buttons for them.
00:38:44
Speaker
Beauty rests on utility. I just read that. That which has in itself the highest use possesses the greatest beauty. They're just saying the same thing. It just changes the words around. That's it. Beauty rests on utility. That which is beautiful has the highest use. They apparently were not poets. They invented poetry.
Legacy of Shaker Furniture in Modern Design
00:39:13
Speaker
Many examples of shaker furniture survive and are preserved today.
00:39:18
Speaker
including such popular forms as shaker tables, chairs, rocking chairs, and cabinets, which are said to have shaker doors known for being flat paneled with rail and frames. Collections of shaker furniture are maintained by many art and historical museums in the United States and the United Kingdom, as well as numerous private collections, including the shaker tilting chair.
00:39:45
Speaker
Hmm. I know you're going to find this funny, but I think I read that they invented that little, um, you know, like the little feet you put at the bottom of furniture on legs that, yeah, that tilt that the Shakers invented that. Allegedly. Yes. Um, the underlying principles of Shaker design have given inspiration
00:40:12
Speaker
to some of the finest designers of modern furniture. Shaker ladder-back chairs, for instance, deeply influenced the work of an entire generation of post-war Danish designers, and we'll discuss their lasting influence in our next episode. Is that a teaser? I could see that. Oh, yeah. There you go. Well, we thought we might turn it around on the Shakers this episode, but it doesn't seem to be going in that direction. No, I think
00:40:42
Speaker
If I remember, I think their influence on some other designers and people, I think I probably have some quotes in there from people like Nakashima, and there's the Bauhaus School, like a bunch of stuff that... Yeah, you can see like Wegener, you know, those same thing, these post-World War II
00:41:10
Speaker
mid-century kind of design. What was that band we were talking about that we don't really listen to them, but everybody cites them as some kind of... Joni Mitchell. Yes, right. We're not big fans of Joni Mitchell, but everybody says... That she was a huge influence on me. Yeah, I think I tried to... Because I heard it so many times, I tried to listen to it. I'm like, what is this?
00:41:38
Speaker
So I think that the Shakers have a bit of a legacy like that. Yeah. And so we don't mean to beat them down. No, no. They were like this intermediary. They stripped away all the things from these previous designs that they saw as unnecessary.
00:42:02
Speaker
which made it easier for other people to see the same thing. And then, you know, therefore the shakers were the influence and not, you know, these previous designs. Yeah. An interesting lot. Not as clear cut a group as I initially thought. A lot of contradictions in their, um,
00:42:32
Speaker
You know, I mean, I guess we're not talking to shakers. This is all kind of like secondhand in a way. So maybe we're not giving them a fair shake on like their beliefs and stuff like that. This is all written by non-shakers. Yeah, which you got to take that into account too. You know, the people who are writing this history are
00:42:59
Speaker
They're looking at it through the lens of their opinion on the Shakers because the Shakers aren't the ones who are keeping this history. Exactly. So maybe, you know, you've asked the Shaker and they're going to say, no, no, no, we didn't do that or we, we're not claiming this and maybe some of these things were put upon them. Yeah. Because if you have this romantic view of this certain group and you're studying them and writing this history, which you have to,
00:43:29
Speaker
basically fabricates the wrong word, but you're creating this mythology almost. Yeah, because they're not, they weren't keeping records of their, um, they weren't writing their own history. Right. Um, and it wasn't until the 1930s where those people even started. Right. So yeah, you're, I mean, the writer of that history is bound to influence it in some way. Yeah, that's a good point. Um,
00:44:00
Speaker
what do you think about the shaker furniture in general think we got a good representative slice uh... yeah i mean because we looked at probably two dozen pieces and they're from the mat uh... uh... yeah i don't know like but you've been saying there's a lot of talk of uh...
00:44:26
Speaker
sophistication and elegance and... Right. We don't really see too much of that. No, it's very crude. I'll agree. It's almost... It reminds me mostly of the... Pennsylvania Dutch. Pennsylvania Dutch, yeah. Whereas... There's more similarities and differences and ain't nobody calling that sophisticated. Right. That's like folk art.
00:44:54
Speaker
and they came into popularity around the same time yeah twenties nineteen thirties i mean will almost feel like the shaker influence is what we're uh... judging in a way with all the the it's people who took the shaker ideals and then created something that was a little bit more elegant a little bit more sophisticated here uh...
00:45:24
Speaker
people came after the Shakers. Like all the guys we mentioned. So what do you think?
00:45:40
Speaker
Well, we'll see. Maybe we can change our opinion around in the fourth episode, but keep an open mind. What's the next episode called? Shaker aesthetic and its lasting influence. Oh yeah. So we're going to start talking about the, um, the influence and maybe, I don't know, maybe we'll, maybe we'll, uh, feel some more significance. Yeah, we could let's read this little teaser here. Given that they only flourish for about a hundred years.
00:46:05
Speaker
it's incredible now how many books have been published on their lives inventions design aesthetic and craftsmanship in many ways they were ahead of their time i wrote this down a google search for shaker furniture yields thirty one million results so there you go all i did was type in google uh... typed in shaker furniture and that's what i got back well
00:46:31
Speaker
so yeah super influential somehow some way yeah I guess we got we got a little bit of time here maybe we could talk about what's going on in the shop what's yeah you know this is gonna be this it's just so you know if you're listening to this it's February 10th so this is old information by the time you get it because this is this will be into March this episode
00:46:59
Speaker
So yeah, this week we set up the paint booth.
Workshop Updates and Raffle Announcement
00:47:03
Speaker
That finally showed up. We've been plugging away on the walnut L-shaped banquette, the oak banquette with the dark vesting finish that's currently living inside a Rob's house. I smashed my shin into it last night because it's in a spot that
00:47:22
Speaker
didn't use to have a piece of furniture so I'm walking through the kitchen out into the dining room last night and cracked my shin right on it.
00:47:33
Speaker
Yeah, that'll be living there until June, apparently when the client will be ready for it. Yeah, I'll be used to it by then. Yeah, you put a piece of foam on it. I think we have our finished rep coming tomorrow. I better check in with him to demo this paint with us. I guess they don't call it paint, they call it a wood finishing product.
00:48:03
Speaker
malaise 1k pre-cat that's not pretentious is it yeah and then I think John's actually gonna come by on Monday might shoot a little video about that whole thing the the three MPPS system and the paint line booth the booth is cool yeah yeah I mean it worked really well
00:48:25
Speaker
Uh, it seemed expensive, you know, it's an, it's an investment like any tool. It's not a disposable thing, even though it's completely portable. Right. Um, so you have to wrap your mind around that aspect of it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, uh,
00:48:47
Speaker
You know, so it's a $2,500 system. If you, if you save an hour on setup and breakdown and clean up every time you paint, well, how many times you have to paint to pay it off? Exactly. Plus you're, you're going to get a better, a better finish in there because it's got the blower and everything. And, um, it's a paint booth. Yeah. It's, it's literally like installing a paint booth.
00:49:13
Speaker
into our little shop. Yeah. And then we could just break it down and put it away. Right. Cause it's not just a tent where it stops overspray from going somewhere. It's, it's vented. There's a filter system. Yeah, it's cool. It's really cool. Really well made. Um,
00:49:35
Speaker
Yeah, the aluminum extrusions were really nice. I mean, it has the liners that are made specifically for it. So you get a five-sided booth. Yeah. I mean, we sprayed 22 ounces totally willy-nilly. Exactly. And there wasn't one drop of one dust of overspray outside of the booth. Yeah.
00:50:04
Speaker
And it went together, I mean, we were just looking at a bag full of parts and it went together.
00:50:10
Speaker
just as the instructions said, which was nice. I mean, I'd say the bag that it goes in is probably seven feet long by eight inches by four inches, something like that. So you got that, you have the bag that the filter holder goes in, which is like 24 by 24 by three or something. That's really it. You got liners and the filters.
00:50:35
Speaker
and the blower is the biggest thing really the blower is you know whatever two-foot cube kind of size and the hose the hose or the ductwork has a bag built into it so just it folds inside of itself and snaps up it's really cool yeah you really could go to a job site or a
00:50:57
Speaker
or a home even and set this up and be confident. Oh yeah. I mean, you could, you could set it up in somebody's dining room and spray the kitchen cabinet doors inside if you wanted. Yeah. Um, you just vent it. It doesn't even have to be vented outside. Like, you know, I've seen guys using them in garages and just, you just vented into the garage because the air that comes out on the other side has been filtered already. Right. Yeah. I'm, I'm really happy with it. Um, uh,
00:51:24
Speaker
even weighing in the cost of it and everything. I think it's great. What's it called again? Paint line? Paint line, portable spray booth. And you don't have to use that blower. There's different types of blowers that you can buy. The blower is
00:51:47
Speaker
you know, one of the most expensive parts, like a thousand bucks for the blower. Yeah. It's made in South Carolina. It's super quiet. Um, you know, you get a Harbor freight blower and run it with that. And then you're talking about cutting the price in half. Yeah. Um, that goes, that cuts against our shaker, uh, aesthetic. That's true. So what else we got going on? Um,
00:52:14
Speaker
Well, we're here doing our podcast. So what about the, uh, the waffle? Oh yeah. Well, what is this two episodes since we talked about it? Maybe by now we're raffling off this cherry bench. Um, and you can enter to win it. So, uh, speaking in, in hypotheticals, cause we don't know what we did. This is three weeks after we talked about it. Um,
00:52:39
Speaker
Yeah. Think about selling tickets, $50 a ticket for the, uh, the bench. You win it. It shows up at your door. All you had to do was enter, enter with the $50 ticket. So, um, yeah, we'll see. I think we'll probably, we're probably gonna end up doing it. So you could go over to the website and find it. Includes freight and everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you can win a $5,000 bench for 50 bucks. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a good deal.
00:53:07
Speaker
Yeah, shit. Worst case, you're out 50 bucks. Yeah, and I was going to say, and you support some local craftsmen, but we don't really... Well, we're local enough. Yeah, yeah. Or US. Yeah. Yeah, it's just good to the lower 48 states. Yeah, because we don't know what, you know. I don't think we can afford to ship it. No, yeah, we'd have to make a...
00:53:37
Speaker
We have to sell more tickets and then it makes it numb, you know, then everybody's odds are lower. Right, right. So you got a one in 100 chance to win it. That's not bad odds. No. What's a Superball box? How many? I don't know. Is it 10 by 10? I don't know. It must be because it's zero and then one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, right? I don't know.
00:54:05
Speaker
I haven't bought a box and man, I couldn't tell you. Let's see. What are the odds? Super Bowl box. Bod. Super Bowl bod. Didn't auto correct that. Don't you hate that when it auto corrects all kinds of ridiculousness?
00:54:37
Speaker
It does look like it's 10 by 10. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Yeah, 10 by 10. So it's the same odds as when in a Super Bowl pool. Yeah, but don't those, don't all the boxes, not all the boxes go off.
00:54:56
Speaker
Yeah, I forget how it works. I think the way it works is there's the one box going down and the one box going across. Yeah. And it's the first number and the second number. So if it's like, you know, I don't know why I brought it up because, cause clearly neither of us know how it works. We're not gamblers. No. Yeah. No. If someone was like, Hey, you want to do the box? Yeah. Okay, whatever. And then I had don't know how it works.
00:55:23
Speaker
But I think what 100 box is, it's the same odds or similar odds. Yeah. Well, doesn't the box go off like every quarter? Yeah, different. I guess you would have a different box, a different board. No, no. Like if, let's say it scores 10-10 at the end of the first quarter and it's 10-10 at the end of the second quarter, you win again. Oh, okay. Yeah. Hmm.
00:55:50
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah, so that what we would do is you know, you would buy your ticket and then you get a
00:55:57
Speaker
to pick a number between one and a hundred for selling a hundred tickets. So, you know, you say, all right, I want to be 25 and we'll have a list on the website, a running list of all the, the, the number and the name that way, keep everybody honest. Yeah. Uh, so you would pick from the remaining numbers and then we pick a number and that person wins. We created up and it gets sent to your house. How are we going to pick the number?
00:56:24
Speaker
with a random number generator. There you go. So it's all fair and on the level. Well, I guess that's all we got for you. Yeah. Tune in next week. We're going to wrap up the Shaker. And then after that, we're going to get into arts and crafts. I have to tell you, arts and crafts is quite meaty. I bet. Those might be some long episodes.
00:56:51
Speaker
Yeah, well over 20 pages on it. All right, thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next week. All right, ciao.
00:57:16
Speaker
Ain't no shame, but there's been a chain