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Author, Activist, Publisher, Pilot Tawn Krakowski
18 Plays6 days ago
This week, the Empress of Tawnlandia and I discuss our horror beginnings, cozy fiction, genres Wednes doesn't write in, and why gets left out of yt feminism. We also talk "What is a Safe Space" and how the people who think they don't need them actually may need them the most. Plus hot chicks we like, community outreach, and Wednes learns a zillion things about piloting and airplanes.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Goals
00:00:02
Speaker
You are listening to The Mentally Oddcast, where we talk with creatives about neurodivergence, trauma, addiction, and all the other things that impact and inform our art.
00:00:14
Speaker
Our goal is to show everyone that no matter what you're going through, you are not alone and you can make art about it. Music
00:00:35
Speaker
You are listening to the
Guest Introduction: Ton Krakowski
00:00:36
Speaker
Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday, leave Friday. And with us this week, we have Ton Krakowski. And born and raised in the heart of America, Ton grew up scouring her local library for any, oh, well let's see, Terry Brooks, Isaac Asimov, Piers Anthony, or Stephen King. Right, right, right. Fascinated with space and flight, she earned her private pilot certificate at 19, and after comp competing completing a BS in aviation management, worked as a flight instructor, cargo pilot, and jet charter captain. We'll definitely get into that.
00:01:12
Speaker
ah Let's see. Author of four novels. Ton is also a serial entrepreneur. Entrepreneur. At one time, operating a catering business, a virtual reality arcade, and now she has an experimental media outlet, Tawnlandia.
00:01:27
Speaker
She is on the board of directors for the nonprofit BWN Publishing and firmly believes in the power of storytelling and community. Welcome, Tawn. It is great to have you here.
00:01:39
Speaker
It's wonderful to be here. Thank you. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I'm so excited. And we like missed our first opportunity to talk. So I'm so glad that we are able to get this
Childhood Influences and Horror Discussions
00:01:53
Speaker
done. um We typically start the show by asking guests to tell us the story of their first horror movie. So let's have it.
00:02:02
Speaker
Oh, my first horror movie. So um that I have kind of a first horror movie. in that I inadvertently saw the scene from the exorcist where she was raised up above the bed and, you know, screaming. And I think I saw that when I was, i don't know, eight. So I had, I had nightmares for a long, long time after that. Um, I'll bet. But my first like horror movie that I went to see, see, Oh my goodness.
00:02:39
Speaker
Maybe. Wolfen. it's It's just been so long. Oh, the big werewolf boom of the 80s, man. Those were wonderful times. Oh, yeah, yeah. And all those, um the murders at at camp and things like that, I actually did camp in the 80s. So I was at summer camp. I was just rife for all of those, you know, scary movies.
00:03:05
Speaker
Nice, nice. I actually did summer camp one year in the 80s and it was a year where there had been a Friday the 13th so we were all showing up on Sunday the 15th like, ah we're doomed!
00:03:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I remember those. So do you think early exposure to horror movies set you on a path?
00:03:27
Speaker
Oh, probably, yeah Um, My parents divorced when I was really, really young. And I think a lot of the way I coped with that was to like hide in like dark places. And when you're in dark places, you kind of know, want to know what, you know, might be in there with you.
00:03:47
Speaker
So, um,
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, i was I was attracted to Stephen King novels early on. I read above my grade level. So those kind of things really um attracted me.
00:04:02
Speaker
And, you know, being a teenage girl, I was totally into all the occult stuff. so Now, we're about the same age. So I need to ask if you did the V.C. Andrews thing.
00:04:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah. The Flowers in the Attic. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, there was so much of it because that series ended up being like five books. And then there was Heaven Castile and Audrina. Like, yeah, that's probably the my girliest reading stint ever because I know a lot of people that write romance or like paranormal romance or romance to see, you know, like and i don't I don't really get near that. But man, back in the day, like...
00:04:43
Speaker
You know bad parents, bad grand grandparents. That was like, I had great grandparents, but parents not so much. So all that was like right up my alley. Oh, yeah. I got into all kinds of stuff I shouldn't have been And my aunt had an extensive collection of horror novels.
00:05:03
Speaker
And um so every time I was at her house, I would, you know, take one off the wall and start reading some of that, you know, the scary stuff. And then the the sci-fi stuff came from, you remember the Isaac, I think it was Isaac Asimov Science Fiction and Fantasy Magazine?
00:05:22
Speaker
Yes. i My parents had that subscription. I would steal it every, I think it came out every Oh, wow. Omni Magazine. Yeah, didn't get to read it unless I was at the dentist. So that's amazing. That and their Omni Magazine. I was totally into all the we're crazy science-y stuff.
00:05:42
Speaker
Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. So now you're in Arizona, um which is traditionally pretty
Political Stance and Personal Reflections
00:05:52
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red. um You are not especially red. How, how's that going for you? I feel like I'm behind enemy lines so often. It's crazy. I actually moved out here in 2015 from the Chicago area.
00:06:08
Speaker
And um Honestly, I've been surprised at how, how many, you know, blue folk, how many, I consider myself an anarchist, you know, kind of thing. So maybe some people on my side of the the alley there that there are, um i just think that the the red is louder then yeah than the blue. Yeah.
00:06:38
Speaker
Well, and I think that applies to an awful lot of things, you know, because, well, there's a think a line of thinking among MAGA boys that liberals don't have guns.
00:06:51
Speaker
And I think they think that because we don't wear them like jewelry. Exactly. It's not our entire fashion aesthetic. I don't need any other team to go pick up some Starbucks or whatever. Right, right. Well, I mean, when I was coming up, if somebody rushed into a room with a gun that was longer than their arm, they were bad. And we knew they were bad and they were going to do something bad and that we needed to get the hell out of there. And now people are just standing around shops with guns like that being like, what? I'm just exercising my right.
00:07:24
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yeah Like it would be my right to wrap a 15 foot Python around myself and walk down the street, but I don't do it because I don't want to upset people. I totally want to wrap a Python around me and go for a walk now. How awesome would that be? Yeah, that's that's the our answer to the Helen Roper pub crawl. It'll be the the Python walk. I love that.
00:07:47
Speaker
No, i didnt it astounds me that... um You know, first of all, that, that you know, as these these folks are so insecure that they need, you know, weaponry to go to the grocery store.
00:08:01
Speaker
But then I'm on the side of the fence that if I see any gun at all, any weapon at all, I'm going to assume you're a bad guy until you prove otherwise.
00:08:13
Speaker
It's just like, you know, men, they they say not all men, but until I know better, yes, all men. You know? Yeah. Well, and and there's a snake analogy for that too, actually. Because if you get thrown into a pit of snakes, but only 10% of them are dangerous, yeah what are you going to do? I mean, you're going to treat all of them like they're dangerous until you can get the hell out of there.
00:08:39
Speaker
You know, you're not necessarily going to start questioning them to see, hey, snake, who did you vote for? Yeah. And it's it's funny. You'd think that because...
00:08:51
Speaker
you know, generally women are the only creatures that have to date a natural predator. It astounds me that more of us are not lesbians.
00:09:03
Speaker
You know, well, that's how we know that sexuality isn't a choice, right? There you go. Exactly.
ADHD Diagnosis and Medication Impact
00:09:12
Speaker
So I am aware that you have an ADHD diagnosis and that it's pretty recent, which means that like me, you went all through school, not necessarily realizing why you were struggling so much. Um, so let's, let's talk about that. How did your diagnosis come about?
00:09:30
Speaker
Well, um,
00:09:34
Speaker
In during the, you know, the global pandemic before the apocalypse. um I was, ah there was just a lot of personal stuff going on a lot of family difficulties, and i was running a business and I was, you know, the kids were in middle school, high school kind of thing, and there was just so much going on.
00:09:59
Speaker
and I was doing okay until the pandemic and then everything just fell apart. And i noticed that like during the height of it, when everything was shut down and, and it was quiet at night, that how much I really, really loved the quiet.
00:10:20
Speaker
And I think during that time is when I thought, well, I think I'm, I think I'm depressed. And so I talked to my doctor and, you know, he of course put me on medication right away. And then later on, um, when, uh, my youngest was having difficulty with, with school and and focusing and things like that.
00:10:43
Speaker
Um, we got a ADHD diagnosis for them and their doctors like, Hey, you know, it's hereditary and I'm like, fuck.
00:10:55
Speaker
So I don't even know I can say that, but you can edit it out. It's fine. So I was like, no, I would, I would not have a show where people could not use profanity. Cause I couldn't be on it.
00:11:05
Speaker
i I love you so much. So yes, I was like, fuck. Um, yeah, maybe I should get that checked out and yeah. Um, it's been, it's been enlightening.
00:11:20
Speaker
Because so much of what happened in my past that I just thought was everybody was going through that. it It illuminated all those things that had I not been raw dogging reality, i would have it would have been so much easier to get through. i mean, I had no idea. I was playing the game on hard mode this whole time.
00:11:46
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Did did you do you feel a lot of anger about that? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but boy, was I angry when I i realized that I should have had accommodations, maybe medication, much more understanding, like all of that, and that I wasn't actually a failure. i was being failed.
00:12:06
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. iy I think there was a bit of rage, but... that was all, you know, during that time that rage was ever present and like directed outwards toward anything red.
00:12:23
Speaker
So I think it kind of got, you know, they deserve all of that. But um yeah, it was, it was more of a, a realization like, that's why I do that. or that's why that happened that way. Or,
00:12:43
Speaker
just kind of a a realization of, yeah, not everybody is having the same experience that you're having.
00:12:54
Speaker
Well, and it seems like not knowing for all that time would be even more impactful as a parent, because had you had the the baseline knowledge from your own childhood, yes it might've been possible to be more aware of what was happening with your child sooner.
00:13:11
Speaker
Exactly. You know, Yeah. that So that, that has generational impacts, you know, not getting diagnosed. Yeah. And that, that kind of goes back and forth with you know my my parents' generation where of course, you know oh, go to therapy is like a insult for them, you know and they think that ADHD is fake and it's just too much sugar or whatever. My folks would not have been the kind of people that would have gotten me evaluated young. And because I was smart,
00:13:46
Speaker
I didn't have a lot of the issues that um that I would have had if I had not been, you know, a smart cookie. So...
00:13:58
Speaker
I think that I would have liked to have known earlier exactly like you said, because it would have helped my own children. Just because i saw them go through through some of the same things that I went through when I was a kid. And i didn't know how to help myself then.
00:14:18
Speaker
and i certainly didn't know how to help them now. So it was ah it the learning curve was vertical for me. both for me and for them.
00:14:30
Speaker
Okay. That, that makes a lot of sense. Um, so when you're addressing what your, your kids are going through, how is it different than addressing what you're going through?
00:14:42
Speaker
Like what kind of coping mechanisms are being used?
00:14:47
Speaker
Um, so I think for, um Well, both for for myself and for my youngest, we we've got, you know, some medication to kind of help with that.
00:15:03
Speaker
And it's funny because, you know, I grew up in that, like we all did in that era where, oh, you know, medication is bad for you and all this other stuff. But I tell you what, the ADHD medicine, it's like night and day. I mean, I can tell when I forgot to take it.
00:15:24
Speaker
And then when I did take, when I do take it, I'm like, I'm on, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm in sync with kind of what's going on around me. And it's not such kind of a, a lag, I guess, when I'm, when I'm not, you know, on my ADHD meds.
00:15:43
Speaker
you know it's it's Oh, I'm sorry. i didn't mean to interrupt. no I'm just curious to know, is that something that you feel like within a day? Because a lot of psych meds, they take weeks before you feel anything.
00:15:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So the the um the medication for ah depression, anxiety, yeah, that took that took a little while to kind of to take effect.
00:16:12
Speaker
But the um the ADHD meds, once we got the the dosage in there, so we kind of had to play around with the dosage. But once we got that dialed in, I can feel it like within a couple of hours.
00:16:29
Speaker
And then, you know, at the end of the day, I'm like, you know, if I forgot to take it at the end of the, toward the end of the day, I'm like, why am I so freaking tight? Oh, shit. Yeah, I forgot.
00:16:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's why. Wow. and And so is it, if you take it and it like, I guess I don't know how to describe it really, if it hypes you up or increases your focus, what happens at the end of the day? do you, do you crash or do you come down gentle? Like how, how does that go?
00:16:59
Speaker
You know, actually that's a good question. i probably, I probably crash. I mean, I get to the point where I'm, I'm really tired and I'm like, Hey,
00:17:12
Speaker
I guess I'm going to go to bed and it, it doesn't take me long to fall asleep after that. So, but it's not like, you know, I'm doing something and I have to sit down and go to sleep.
00:17:23
Speaker
Um, which i see honestly, when I was, when I was a kid, i did have those issues where, you know, I got to the point where i was so tired and I was doing so much stuff that I was like that kitten,
00:17:37
Speaker
you know, that you watch like fall asleep while it's sitting up. I would do that. but Wow. So I guess what I'm wondering is, had you been diagnosed in childhood and properly treated, what do you think would have gone differently for you in life?
00:18:01
Speaker
I mean, could could you point to anything specific that didn't go your way because of how your symptoms presented?
00:18:13
Speaker
No. So I think school would have been a whole lot easier. I think there would have been a whole lot less feelings of of failure or or perfectionism kind of holding me back, I think.
00:18:32
Speaker
ah And i've I believe that my relationship with my children would have been a lot different because I would have understood what it was that they were going through from a frame of reference where i knew what I was going through.
00:18:53
Speaker
That makes sense. That makes a ton of sense. Yeah. um Would you say that ADHD impacts your writing? Like how often you're able to write or how much or the content? Like, what do you think the impact has been?
Writing Routines and Publishing Journey
00:19:08
Speaker
oh yeah, very much so. ah um i I envy the people who have this routine they're like, I get up and I write from this to this every day. and ba but I can't can't do that.
00:19:22
Speaker
I don't, my energy levels fluctuate. um Generally in the morning, i I can't talk to anybody for like a few hours after I get up because I'm still so groggy.
00:19:34
Speaker
And then, you know, when I get focused on something and I'm hyper-focused, I'm in the moment and i'm I'm writing, you know, that kind of thing and something interrupts me,
00:19:50
Speaker
i can't I can't get back into it. It takes forever. And sometimes I never go back to it. I've got like 15,000 works in progress that I think I'm just going to turn into a bunch of short stories because I can't focus for very long. That's why um yeah when I started writing with Big World Network, they were in episodic format.
00:20:15
Speaker
And I think that was hugely helpful to me. and And I think maybe the ADHD played into that because I really like the short stories and kind of writing in writing in tidbits.
00:20:29
Speaker
Oh, that is so relatable. I think making the switch from long form to short form is the reason that I'm still writing fiction now because I was getting so overwhelmed by the idea of putting together another long form book. And for me, that's only like you know, maybe a hundred thousand words. I mean, my books are not even that long, but a short story is like, okay, I had this cool idea. i sat down for three hours and outlined it. And then two days later I went back through and, and, you know, sharpened it up. And that's a story.
00:21:02
Speaker
That's the thing that you could publish. Cause it's, it's already done. yeah You know, whereas I've been trying to finish my Don Jr. Trilogy, for years. I mean, the last book was published in 2022 and I still can't finish the third one because I hate that motherfucker so goddamn much now.
00:21:19
Speaker
Oh, yeah. We're using swears on the show. Did I mention that? Yay! Motherfucker! Yeah, no. Well, but that was a tough one for me because, I mean, regular listeners know I sincerely believe that he was a good guy surrounded by assholes. And I believed it for decades. And spoiler alert, that's not true. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, I mean, because, you know, his dad was a Democrat forever. And Don Jr. didn't give a fuck about politics when he was young. And it so happened that when I found out about a particular abusive incident,
00:21:55
Speaker
that happened sort of publicly, I was on LSD. So it became like a like a core memory that John Jr. is a good guy who's being abused and somebody ought to help him. And that just like burrowed its way into my mind, like one of those little Star Trek bugs from Rath of Khan. Yeah. and And so, so yeah, I was convinced of it. And i don't know if you've ever been hornswoggled by someone who doesn't know you're you exist, but it can make you feel pretty fucking stupid. So can imagine. And you know what?
00:22:32
Speaker
I'm the kind of person that I would blame that on myself for being dumb enough to fall for it versus oh yeah them for being so smart as to fool me. Well, and for fuck's sake, he wasn't even trying to trick me.
00:22:46
Speaker
i mean, until I started freaking cyber stalking him on Twitter, he didn't know who I was. so And so, which is not cool because like I invited him to my wedding and I did not even get an RSVP. And I'm sorry, sir, but that's rude. Don Jr., if you're listening, that was rude So rude. So rude.
00:23:05
Speaker
I think you can still blame them. High treason is one thing, but come on, not returning an RSVP? What the fuck, man? Optics, anyone? Okay, so you run a publishing house, and it is called Barnstormer Publishing, and there's a bunch of books that are like on their way to readers right now, so tell us what we need to know about that.
00:23:27
Speaker
Oh my gosh. So um I started it because I really just wanted to publish, republish my own books to get all of the the royalties. um And then a friend of mine, Pat Green, was writing some, um some kind of short fiction based on the 80s and some characters that he was working on for his book. And I first kind of connected with his short stories and thought, hey,
00:24:00
Speaker
Um, I, I'm also a narrator. I'm like, I would like to voice some of these short stories and kind of publish them, you know, as, as just on my blog, that kind of thing.
00:24:12
Speaker
um, we got to talking and he says, well, I'm, I'm looking to publish my, my parts of glass book, my first one. And I'm like, well, I just bought a hundred ISBN. So let's do this thing.
00:24:25
Speaker
and it's kind of grown from there. um Pat is putting out his second in the Hearts of Glass series. I've also republished three of my four. one The fourth one is getting a new cover and kind of a rewrite to go with the cover.
00:24:44
Speaker
um I've just finished publishing The Grovers, which is it's The Grovers, Who's Afraid of the Boogeyman by J. Jesse Edwards. And it's a It reminds me of a Scooby-Doo mystery, um, with kids that get superpowers and, you know, battle evil. Um, and they have some, some kind of things going on in their lives as well.
00:25:12
Speaker
Um, and then I republished, uh, my friend, Wendy, Wendy Lou, um, two of her novels, which, um, are, they're like sci-fi Rome, and not sci-fi. I'm sorry. Like, um,
00:25:30
Speaker
like adventure, a spy kind of romance novels with the main character is a woman, an adult woman as opposed to like the 16 year old who goes off on the quest, um which is kind of like my pirate princess book, which is a 12 year old who goes off on a quest, but that's another, that's another story.
00:25:52
Speaker
oh wow And then um the, one of my, favorite ones that came out this one was a little bit outside of my comfort zone and I'm actually really grateful that Stevie B's gave me a chance on this one but um they wrote an adorable illustrated children's book called What is a Safe Space?
00:26:16
Speaker
And um so that is being published through my company as well. And that one is coming out. So we had some confusion as far as the shipping um and it will be published, i believe, mid to late January.
00:26:37
Speaker
But I won't know that until later on. Okay. Are you guys accepting? a Oh, sorry. Oh, no, i was going to say, and I also have some more stuff coming out. There's another, um an erotica novella, as well and as as a fantasy novel.
00:27:01
Speaker
spicy book. It's not really erotica. It's, it's more of a spicy fantasy novel. Um, and I, and series, and we're working on series, uh, serials coming out in January.
00:27:16
Speaker
So lots of stuff. Can you explain the difference between spicy and straight up erotica? Oh, uh, so spicy is, um, there's more like,
00:27:29
Speaker
There's more like novel than sex scenes. And then the erotica one is, i'm it's basically episodic. So each chapter is a full sex scene.
00:27:45
Speaker
Oh, wow. Wow. Okay. Yeah. That's wild. I don't, cause you know, that's, that's not really what I read. So I don't know like the, the delineations between the sub genres, but also.
00:27:59
Speaker
I kind of made those up. I mean, I don't
00:28:06
Speaker
Well, because people will use a lot of terms like that. Like, I just found out what cozy mystery means recently because someone described the new Matlock that way. And I was like, I don't know what that means. But it it turns out that cozy just means you're not going to have your heart broken at the end.
00:28:23
Speaker
Like, they're telling you in advance that it's not like reading The Road where you're going to finish it and walk around in a fog three days because everything's so unfair. I got you know ah a cozy story is one that has a satisfying ending where the good guys aren't getting completely screwed over at the end and I love that I love that that's a genre that exists even if it's probably not what I would choose most of the time I love that there are books for people that are like I want to read but I don't want to take that risk because I have a life and children and I need my mental health intact yeah absolutely and even you know sometimes you're just not up for that hardcore, you know, horror novel. Maybe something cozy just right up the alley when you're having a bad day. Well, right. And I mean, if you're reading for escapism, you might not want to walk into a nest full of alien vipers or whatever the hell, you know? Maybe some great British baking show is, you know, is ready for you to go. It's like, how many times can you really watch Dexter?
00:29:29
Speaker
Well, I'm down to find out, frankly. But um so so the the progression from, oh, you know what? I skipped a question. Oh, my God. I can't even read my own list. um Are you guys taking unsolicited subs?
00:29:43
Speaker
Yes. um ah Editor at Barnstorming Publisher. barnt Yeah. editor at barnstormerpublishing.com is our email address. So what are you looking for in a sub?
00:29:57
Speaker
um You know, that's a good question. Right? I'm smart. Most of what we're looking for is um see,
00:30:13
Speaker
that's a good question. Sorry, I kind of sprung that on you, I think. No, no, I don't think that you did. It was probably on the list and I wasn't paying attention. um I think one of the things that all of the publications that I put out have in common are they're either by or about um a ah underrepresented person.
00:30:36
Speaker
um population they're either a female lead or they're written by a person of color or um that kind of thing and also we're looking for um
00:30:56
Speaker
A variety, I think. I mean, I've done, i have some children's, I have some middle grade, I have some adult, I have some very adult. um And I really like to see different stories, um but all from from different perspectives.
00:31:17
Speaker
Okay, so it isn't even entirely about the sub itself, but how it fits into your your larger ah slate of of what you're putting out. Yeah. That makes sense.
00:31:30
Speaker
Well, you know, when I first started submitting, sometimes you get that that rejection letter back and it says that your story doesn't meet their needs at the present time. And that always sounded really bullshitty and corporate-y to me. But now that I run a magazine, i understand that, like, no, this is really good. It's just not right for us right now.
00:31:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, and, like, the progression from writer to publisher is way more common than I realized. um So, like, I know why I do it, but why do you think that so many writers want to get into publishing eventually?
00:32:10
Speaker
um probably for the same reason that I started is that they want a bigger cut of their own money. But learning how to do all the things is is a lot harder than I had anticipated. it's It's, you know, to be able to, first of all, find the platform to make sure that everything's typeset correctly, to get cover art, to be able to have that cover art fit the the file to be able to, you know, and then you market it yourself. And it's just, it's a lot.
00:32:48
Speaker
And I think when I was putting together a kind ah publishing house, I wanted it to be kind of a co-op. in that everything that we're doing so far is is royalty share.
00:33:04
Speaker
So I've been doing a bulk of the back end things like typesetting and doing the cover um cover fitting and things like that and uploading it and distribution.
00:33:18
Speaker
um And then i don't make any money as a publisher until those books sell. So it's kind of a win-win on um both of the both of our parts.
00:33:33
Speaker
Some folks that wouldn't otherwise have gotten um a callback or or you know their stories published, I'm able to publish them. And then I also get kind of a cut from them doing all the work, all the hard work. yeah I just did the stuff on the back Right?
00:33:53
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and the back end stuff is the stuff that's not only is it hard work, it's meticulous and it's not fun. Because laying out a book is not, I mean, I don't feel like it's a creative activity. I feel like it's just meticulous and procedural. And I have to keep looking up which thing to pick because it's so, like, I don't know. it's it's It's just, like, every time I have to, like, laying out the magazine is my least favorite part, you know?
00:34:20
Speaker
I love sending acceptance letters. That's my favorite part. And like, you know, going through the slush pile. Thank goodness I have somebody to help with that now. um But no, you know, what I wanted to actually go back to is you mentioned the book, What is a Safe Space? Yeah.
00:34:37
Speaker
yeah And I want to talk about that because um safe space is one of those like woke terms that people are really quick to denigrate, you know? Oh, I don't need a safe space because I'm tough, whatever, whatever. um Let's talk about why that's a bunch of bullshit if we can, because safe spaces are important. They're valuable. They help people.
00:35:01
Speaker
Yeah. Tell us your take on that, please. I think a lot of people who so who kind of poo-poo that and say, oh, I don't need a safe space. I'm being into, I think those kinds of people have never actually had a safe space.
00:35:15
Speaker
um Because I think that if they would recognize that, then of course they would say, well, yeah, everybody needs a place to be themselves, to be safe, to not have to worry about, you know, what kind of crazy things the orangutan in charge is doing.
00:35:34
Speaker
um So I really do think that they can't really recognize it because they never experienced it. Now I wonder if that's like when people talk about culture and you'll have black culture or Hispanic culture and people say, oh, well, why isn't there white culture?
00:35:51
Speaker
It's like, because that's just called culture. That's what takes over everything. So maybe a safe space for a cis white privileged man is just what the world is. The whole world is set up to be their safe space.
00:36:05
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. And and yet they don't they don't feel like it because if there's any sort of critique whatsoever, then suddenly they're the guys punching walls and feeling unsafe.
00:36:16
Speaker
Yeah. You know, that's very, very true. And I think what you get used to it's hard to kind of take away things that you're used to.
00:36:28
Speaker
and if you're used to being in, you know, the one on top, if you're used to everybody catering to your needs, then, you know, you, you get a boo-boo and suddenly it's the end of the world.
00:36:40
Speaker
And to them, it probably is at the end of the world because suddenly the world is not working the way it always has been before. um But yeah, I think everybody absolutely needs a safe space. And I think that everybody needs to know how to discern that.
00:37:00
Speaker
um You know, we talked about a lot of the horror influences that I had growing up. And i think that kind of instilled in me an instinct for, you know, what what is safe and what is not safe.
00:37:19
Speaker
And i I think a lot of, yeah that's something that has to be cultivated. Hopefully not with scary stuff all the time, but I think it's probablyb it's it's good that you know people are able to discern what is safe and what is not.
00:37:39
Speaker
and And part of a safe space involves consent. And that consent is like we wait to get consent before something happens. And then we respect consent through the whole process. And that's something that as a society, we've only been talking about consent openly for a short time and even less so for children. Right. I know when I was a kid, if your gross old aunt that you've never met before wants to hug you, you shut your eyes real tight and you give her a hug because that's what you are expected to do.
00:38:13
Speaker
And yet, if you get the creep from a guy on a date and you don't, you know, what plays in your head isn't this isn't safe, I should probably leave. What plays in your head is I don't want to be rude. I don't want to be accused of overreacting. You know, there are a whole bunch of things that we're taught that make us less safe and we don't even realize it.
00:38:32
Speaker
You know, that whole being polite thing in particular. Oh, yeah. And I don't I don't think that we're not getting that feeling that it's unsafe. I think that all that we've been taught has been overriding that feeling.
00:38:47
Speaker
And so, you know, when we kind of, we smile because we know that we feel unsafe and we're kind of hoping that, you know, nothing, nothing will set off this person because we recognize that this person is not safe to be be with.
Creating Safe Spaces and Educational Books
00:39:04
Speaker
um And going through that, when you were talking about the safe space for children, ah that's, that's one of the things that really, really drew me to this book, um, is because it's, it's in that kind of sing-songy Dr. Seuss meter.
00:39:24
Speaker
And, um, it talks about different children, ah with their, their name begins with the letter of the alphabet and what they do to be a safe space for their friends.
00:39:37
Speaker
And then at the end, um, So in Hearts of Glass, we have a domestic violence shelter and information, the hotlines, that kind of thing.
00:39:51
Speaker
In the beginning, resources for folks to be able to find some of the resources that they might need. And then in the back of the Safe Space book um is the ABCs the
00:40:07
Speaker
I can't remember what it's called, the ABCs of um of consent, I guess. So the the C stands for cassette consent and um and I can't remember what the A and B were for, but essentially it's kind of talking points that you can talk with young children about and how to recognize safe spaces and how to be a safe space for their friends.
00:40:39
Speaker
That is just cool. I love that. I love it. um I think that kids sometimes get the message that they can't, you know, that they're not very important. They're not in charge of anything. And I think empowering kids, certainly in like bully situations or situations where people are being made to feel unsafe, learning how impactful you can be as a young person sets you up to be more impactful in every aspect of life. Seriously.
00:41:09
Speaker
Absolutely. bless I think self-esteem goes up because nothing makes my self-esteem better than when I feel like I have actually improved something that someone else is doing, you know, like leaving things better than you found it.
00:41:23
Speaker
Yes. So all of that ties in together to like the sense of community. Because I think one of the reasons that we're really in advancing in terms of things like consent or the Me Too movement, um you know, tackling domestic violence, things like that is because we're all talking openly with each other.
00:41:42
Speaker
Yes. And the bad people don't like that. They don't want us comparing notes. They don't want us making a list of the men who did bad things on dates so that other people know not to date them. They don't want, you know, adequate sex education so that people know what's a good touch and what's a bad touch and what you do if there's a bad touch, like who you're supposed to tell and, you know,
00:42:06
Speaker
What happens if they don't believe you and who, you know, there's so many things there that I had no idea about and without getting too personal into my own drama, it would have been helpful to know that not everybody believed what I was being told that people believed.
00:42:24
Speaker
You know, yeah so that's it's so important to get those messages out to where people will. And and I mean, I'm not even just talking about kids, you know, yeah grown women comparing notes about their terrible husbands and saying, know,
00:42:40
Speaker
I like, I will never forget the first time i was talking to someone at a sex website that I was working for. And she said, well, what do you do when your husband forces you? And I just froze because yeah, I've had some terrible boyfriends, but my husband, yeah no, he would, he would never. and though Wasn't until what the nineties before marital rape was a crime.
00:43:07
Speaker
In all 50 states, yeah, there were some states that tackled it ah earlier, but yeah, federally, the 90s, the 1990s, kids. Yeah. Because it turns out women aren't property. No no person is property, it it turns out.
00:43:24
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So, so yeah, like, I mean, that's honestly one of the reasons that I do this show, because I think that talking about these issues with people who aren't typically hanging out with people that are talking about these issues is so helpful. Oh Because there are women in these little, I mean, I don't want to blame churches in general. I was going to say these little churchy pockets of, you know, isolation. I'm i' completely good with that. Yeah.
00:43:53
Speaker
Not you Episcopalians. We're cool. um but But I, like, yeah, like that a lot of, a lot of times church and those kinds of environments are the first places that we learn to suppress our, our own fears, our own gut instinct and, and learn how to obey and to be silent. And, and, and that kind of darkness, that kind of evil thrives,
00:44:23
Speaker
in silence and for a long time it even if you did say something it didn't matter nobody would do anything about it so i think a lot of women just kept it to themselves you know if they were assaulted or anything you know that happened to them they would keep to themselves and then when me too started you know i i I could see that more more women were coming forward and more people were paying attention.
00:44:57
Speaker
And i think that that we've gotten to this point right now with the Epstein files and and just trying to expose all of the rotten foundation um of of all of this ah just abuse. um if It almost feels like ah like ah a boil coming to a head, you know, that this has been growing since since the 80s, especially, but this kind of upheaval of of um women finding their voices and especially Black women finding
00:45:41
Speaker
finding their voices and people actually listening for a change. i think it's really come to a head.
00:45:50
Speaker
Yeah, well absolutely. And it's so wild because like with the Epstein files, we're finally reaching a point where the plausible deniability is gone. you know People have to stand up and make some choices and and admit what they're supporting and what they're not supporting. And ah from where I'm sitting, I'm learning about a whole bunch of cowardice that I had not suspected before. Oh, yeah. you know I mean, Megyn Kelly's always been crap. I'm not going to say she hasn't always been just performative garbage, but she's got a 14-year-old daughter, and she said, oh, 15, barely legal, blah, blah, blah. Like, bitch, what? No.
00:46:34
Speaker
I don't, it's, it's shocking to me, but, but I mean, I guess it's not shocking. and It's more appalling because if if I'm shocked at at the terrible things Megyn Kelly is saying, that's, that's kind of on me at this late date.
00:46:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's, she's definitely appalling. I recall that she wasn't um She was particularly hard on, i don't remember, it like nursing mothers or something like that until she herself was a nursing mother. And she's like, oh, this yeah, this is what it's like.
00:47:05
Speaker
I think a lot of people are kind of the same way in that they don't, if it if it doesn't personally affect them, then they don't really... understand and they don't really care to understand, you know? Well, and, you know, I think that's one of the core differences between conservatives and, you know, liberal progressives. Mm-hmm.
00:47:26
Speaker
and And I'm sure I'm painting with a broad brush. it It feels like I am. But what I observe really is that I mean, you know, even in terms of like charity and and donations, poor people help each other. yeah Rich people tend to not, you know, a prosperous person is much more likely to help a prosperous person so they can hit them up for a favor later than they would be to help the poor because the poor should have thought of that before they were poor.
00:47:54
Speaker
Yeah. And as someone who like, like we weren't poor, we were like working class, but my mom was terrible with money because she was mentally ill and not diagnosed. So we were always having money pinches, even though there really was enough money to go around.
00:48:11
Speaker
home But I think, i forget where I was going with this. Maybe I just wanted to talk about myself.
00:48:21
Speaker
No, I, I, no, that's great. I mean, there's the, the capitalism is just, it's, it's like when you're, um you're thinking about buying a car and then suddenly you see that car everywhere.
00:48:35
Speaker
um it the whole capitalism system i mean once you see it you see it everywhere and we've been we've been on the same thing since the 80s i mean um the the wisconsin was supposed to get um like a monorail oh and a maglev system in the 80s but the conservatives poo-pooed it and got rid of it and nothing has changed since the 80s it's just gotten worse you know we In the 80s, we didn't have millionaires. I mean, if you were a millionaire, that's awesome.
00:49:10
Speaker
Now we've got, I think Elon is like a fucking trillionaire or some bullshit. ah it's Yeah, he's he's close. It's so out of control. um And there's such conditions to believe it.
00:49:25
Speaker
Well, because remember, like, I mean, we don't remember because we're not that old, but you're aware of, like, the Carnegies, you know? yeah. And they were absurdly rich, but they built hospitals and libraries and performance centers and, mean, Carnegie Hall. We all know what that is, right? So they wouldn't get that.
00:49:44
Speaker
They're like, here, let them have some fancy stuff so nobody comes to eat me. Yeah. These guys, i mean, Elon, he looks stringy, but, you know, If you gotta eat something.
00:49:56
Speaker
Well, ah he too slow broed fixing world hunger. Like he offered to do it. If someone showed him the numbers, he would show the numbers and then was like, oh, ha ha, psych. No, I'm not doing it.
00:50:09
Speaker
And I don't know why anyone would... I mean, why would anyone take him seriously or think that he wants to do good after that? and You know, that's... I kind of hope they all blow up their cyber talk trucks and...
00:50:25
Speaker
and protest. I mean, I don't, I don't, like, I don't understand, like, if I had the money to help everyone who was suffering, why the fuck wouldn't I do it?
00:50:36
Speaker
You know? Because anytime that I'm... Like, that's what, that's what capitalism does to us, though. It makes us, it's, it's like, it's a feature. It's not a bug. It's um they know they're siphoning off all of the money from, you know, the people who don't have any money. in It's, it's,
00:50:58
Speaker
It's like they're bunch of human dragons hoarding all the resources. there There's enough resources. Well, and in the case of Eli, i like he thinks he deserves it because he's so smart. It's terrifying how entitled these people.
00:51:12
Speaker
like I mean, it's it's fine. Like, okay, fine. Your parents were rich. They were rich because of like slavery or whatever, and that's gross. But you didn't do it. So, okay, you grew up with a bunch of money that came from a bad place, and you bought a bunch of other people's IP and pretended you made it.
00:51:27
Speaker
You know, all of that, like, okay, that's just regular shitty capitalism. But like, you're bankrupting the whole world to make exploding rockets and ugly cars. Like, is that really worth it? it I don't see how it could be.
00:51:41
Speaker
And the weirdest thing is, is that, I mean, technically, money doesn't exist. I mean, we we made it up, you know, the stock market, all of that is just made up numbers, you know?
00:51:56
Speaker
it's It's confidence in something or or not. cop It's like the biggest gambling, you know, legal gambling bullshit yeah as ever. If the stock market stock market crashed today, how much would Elon really be worth?
00:52:15
Speaker
you know Well, you know, it it kind of reminds me of my favorite part in every zombie movie, which is when they find stacks of cash and they burn it to keep warm because it's not worth a goddamn thing. Exactly. Exactly. And that's why that's why community is so important because while they're self-combusting in their castles of cash, the the community is what keeps...
00:52:45
Speaker
each other you know alive and safe and well. And that's why it's so important for us to have a community. Well, yeah, and that you know that's the whole thing with like SNAP and all these people have been saying, oh, well, if you've done drugs, why should I have to help you and your children eat? like Well, first of all, that's terrible argument. But also, i mean, if do do you want to live in a society or don't you?
00:53:12
Speaker
You know, because if you don't want to live in a society and you don't want to pay taxes, i honestly do think people should be able to opt out of that if that's what they want. You know, don't send your kids to public school. Don't use roads. Don't send or receive mail. If your house catches on fire, you don't call the fire department. You don't call the cops.
00:53:31
Speaker
You know, your food doesn't go through the FDA. Like if that's really what you want, I do think you should be able to opt out. But then you you don't get anything that anybody else is paying for.
00:53:44
Speaker
Yeah. which, you know, just society isn't that bad. I mean, sure, people are annoying, but on the whole, society isn't that positive. I completely agree.
00:53:57
Speaker
um One of the things that i I read earlier was talking about how a lot of the things that we don't have collectively today are because in the past, white supremacists have basically said, we don't want that if the black people are going to get that.
00:54:20
Speaker
So yep we don't you know we don't want money to go to schools if the black people are going to get good schools. And that's why we have private schools. It's like we're self-segregating all over again based on what white people don't want black people to have.
00:54:43
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i i talk a lot about how it's the Southern strategy. Yeah. You know, when when government, when Republicans wanted to, well, conservatives, I should say, wanted to get people to vote against their own interests, they convinced Southern white people that no matter how poor you are, how matter how destitute, how bad things are going from you, you're still better than a black man.
00:55:08
Speaker
yeah and the bigots down south ate it up and so now they really are doing the same thing it's just that it's not black people it's all liberals it's anyone with empathy or compassion who likes things like safe spaces like all of those people the the woke people it's anybody not a cis white man essentially yep yep and and their trad wife Yes, yes, yeah. And and that's that's always interesting to me too, the how much white women really kind of play into the whole race with racism thing without even without even realizing it,
00:55:50
Speaker
you know um Yeah, I learned about that pretty early on in feminism because I discovered feminism as a freshman in college. it It was wild, too, because I discovered the novel American Psycho and feminism in the same year. And boy, were they at odds with each other. um But just the idea that I mean, when I was introduced to feminism, it was raging feminism. There wasn't low-key feminism, but it was so centered around suburban white women and affluence. And when I would say things like, well, wait a minute, what about people that are taking the bus? Oh, they'll figure it out.
00:56:32
Speaker
Yeah. Well, but that's not the point of this movement, to dismiss people and say they'll figure it out. The whole point is that... We're, you know, we're all linking arms and we're all going to be together. So nobody gets left behind.
00:56:45
Speaker
And no, I was shouted down about that. Like, well, we we can't. Someone actually said to me when I was a freshman, well, we can't worry about the ghettos right now. And.
00:56:59
Speaker
Yeah. Like, i i mean, i wasn't as shocked as I would be now, you know, or like as horrified. But at at the time, it really was shocking to hear people just admit outright, like, no, no, not the ghetto people. We're talking about, you know, using words like normal or regular or like, yes like just just say white. that's That's what you mean. Just say white.
00:57:21
Speaker
Yeah. well and And it sucks as a white woman because I'm certainly not ah immune to white woman bullshit. I'm sure I've committed it. But I also like want to do better.
00:57:33
Speaker
yeah Yeah. And it's it's tricky because I don't want to be lectured about my whiteness by other white people. But at the same time, that has value because, my God, black women can't teach everyone everything. They're exhausted. And rightly so, because we've been wearing them out. Yeah. but
00:57:52
Speaker
Because, yeah, most of the people that I worked with on the Kamala campaign were not white, you know? Yeah. And... ah And yet I learned so much from them about talking about politics because they're like, you're you're still telling people facts and hoping they'll change their minds, aren't you?
00:58:13
Speaker
Like, well, yeah. Oh, yeah. I guess that doesn't work, does it? It does not work. Psychologically, they prove that that doesn't work. People just double down based on what they learned first.
00:58:27
Speaker
um It's probably why you know everybody thinks that there are only two genders and XY chromosomes because that's what they learned in sixth grade and that's all they remember. you know And right now, 54% of Americans, adult American adults, um are functionally illiterate.
00:58:49
Speaker
they or They read at a sixth grade level or below. 54%. fifty four percent So, well, I mean, I think a lot of people aren't getting the nuance.
00:59:02
Speaker
it's It's true. I mean, when I was a kid, i was raised by conservatives and conservatives felt very, very strongly that anyone who wanted to live in this country should know English.
00:59:13
Speaker
And when we all went on the Internet and it was time to write down what we thought instead of saying it, it turned out that ah most of those people did not know English and could not put a proper sentence together if their life depends on it. And I know there's a lot of talk about you know ableism and in terms of grammar, like that you're not supposed to make fun of people's grammar because it's ableist. But if you're telling me I'm dumb because I don't support Trump, I will definitely point out that you write like a tired toddler. you know i just i don't
00:59:49
Speaker
You don't get to call people stupid if you don't know the difference between there, there, and there. because you were taught agree with that. You know, and that's another, like, my taxpayer money thing. It's like, well, you were treated to 12 years of free education at least.
01:00:05
Speaker
Even if you skip kindergarten, you still got 12 years of free education. You should be able to write a goddamn sentence, especially if you're going to get online and start telling other people how they should live their life.
01:00:16
Speaker
Come on now. Come on. I think that's one of the things that's that's me right a difference for me between, you know, conservatives and, and progressives is really progressives don't really care what you do as long as it doesn't affect them.
01:00:34
Speaker
And conservatives really care what you do because they think it affects them and it does not.
01:00:43
Speaker
I would agree with that. Definitely. ah So listen, you indicated a willingness to talk about a time when you were in legitimate fear for your life. And that is a question that we don't ask people haphazardly. we We always get permission for that because we don't want to spring it on someone. And, you know, we always want people to be able to decline to talk about something that personal if they don't want to.
01:01:07
Speaker
But you've indicated that you do want to talk about it. So what would you like to say? Well, So first of all, i don't think a whole lot scares me.
01:01:18
Speaker
um So I don't really think that I've been in a spot where I was truly fearful for my life. um But I have been in situations where um I was more fearful of, I guess, being hurt, that kind of thing. um
01:01:40
Speaker
And generally, when I'm faced with those kind of situations, a, you know how they do the fight or flight or freeze fawn kind of thing. Yep.
01:01:53
Speaker
I have occasionally, gone fight, which is kind of hilarious because I'm, I'm five foot two. um and, uh, one instance was outside of a grocery store. I think it was a Fry's grocery store.
01:02:11
Speaker
And I was parked in my car and was gonna pull through the the slot across from me and go down the next aisle. And as as I was preparing to do this, this pickup truck, you know, rushes in front of me and cuts me off.
01:02:27
Speaker
And so of course I do what anybody would do and flip them off or whatever. and And I'm like, and that's, you know, that's the same with my day. Well, this, the truck stopped and the guy got out.
01:02:42
Speaker
And at that point, my, I, something in my head clicked and I'm like, oh, fuck no. And I, I did the same thing. I got out of the car.
01:02:52
Speaker
I slammed the door. I matched his energy. I, I came up right almost in his face and he's like, He was yelling at me that, you know, that did I, did I flip him off and how could I do that? He's got kids in the car.
01:03:07
Speaker
And I'm like, if you've got kids in the car, then they should be ashamed that you're such an asshole that you would, that you would stop the car and come out after me. I'm like, you do come on. What do you bring it, bring it.
01:03:20
Speaker
And after a little bit, he just kind of looked at me and he said, you're crazy. And he got back in his car and he drove away. And I went home and I had to have, you know, some devil's lettuce or whatever to calm down because that scared the crap out of me that I did that.
01:03:37
Speaker
Well, yeah. Yeah, because there is a certain stripe of man that will fly into a rage instantly at the the first sign of being challenged, especially by a woman. It's such a hot button issue for for toxic dudes.
01:03:54
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah, I had a personal experience with that recently. I haven't been one that that has hesitated to lay down that that woman card either.
01:04:07
Speaker
um There have been times when you know some guy was coming after me for something or other and i I just put on my best little girl voice and, oh, was that you? I'm so sorry. Oh, my goodness. How could I have done and just you know And then it's over because they're like, oh, okay, whatever.
01:04:25
Speaker
Yeah, I guess if you're short, you probably get away with that more. yeah I'm kind of a behemoth, so nobody buys that for me. I'll bet so. I will bet so.
01:04:35
Speaker
um i Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. That's that's wild, really. Because that that is scary. I think I've been in retail situations where things just come flying out of my mouth and before I can stop them and then it's like, oh, I just made an unsettled man very angry. Like, I had a guy when I was working at Hollywood Video that I couldn't open an account for him because he had two forms of ID but they didn't match.
01:05:05
Speaker
And he like took a fake swing at me at the counter. You know, like he was let that like where they pretend they're going to punch you and then they stop themselves. Yeah. And I'm like, dude, you're on camera.
01:05:19
Speaker
And he's like, what? What? I didn't hit you. And then I went to leave at the end of the night and he was sitting in the parking lot. And I went back into the store and called the cops. And I was like, yeah, I'm sorry. I need an escort.
01:05:31
Speaker
And yeah. And even when the cops got there, he was like, yeah, that's right, bitch. You call the cops. Like, this is over for a Hollywood video rental cart. This is how upset you're getting over, you know, not being able to rent The Mummy with Brendan Fraser. And nobody's blaming you. It's a fine film. But come on.
01:05:50
Speaker
ah Well, i think, isn't The Mummy considered one of the most bisexual films ever because every person of every gender is just absurdly attractive? Oh yes, every single one of them. Yeah, absolutely.
01:06:04
Speaker
um ah I'm straight, but I'm sure one of them could chi should me because holy shit. Yeah. It's like you think you're straight and then you see a movie like that or like, you know, like I'm basically straight. Oh, this movie's called Heavenly Creatures. Let's see what this is about. Oh, i guess I'm not straight. Whoops.
01:06:26
Speaker
I think Margot Robbie is the one that she's just stunning in everything she does. and And she has become Harley Quinn in my mind forever. Oh, yeah. And I just...
01:06:43
Speaker
Everything that she's in, I love her in Yeah, I must agree. And the thing is, I typically find people that are too attractive inherently suspicious.
01:06:54
Speaker
Yeah. you know, like I assume that they're breezing their way through life and you know, all that there. i think Margot Robbie is just magnificent as a human being. I mean, she is just she is wonderful. I can't help it. And and I that's not the kind of person that I would normally feel that way about.
01:07:13
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so yeah, yeah. I can, I totally get that. She seems like she, and and I think it's just the way that she delivers her line or the way that she, she encompass embodies, that's it. The way that she embodies all of her characters.
01:07:34
Speaker
Um, she's just, she's just stunning. And I love how she, um she seems, you know, she's innocent, but then she's not innocent at the same time.
01:07:48
Speaker
You know? it She's like, looks innocent, but she's still deadass. I wouldn't even say innocent. I don't like to use this word, but yeah, like, Like a word like pure, by which I'm not talking virginity, but like intentions. Yeah. She means well, you know, even Harley. Harley is a violent, you know, crazy bitch, but she's on the right side of things. Yeah. know, if you.
01:08:13
Speaker
If you're bashing people because they thought they could just cavalierly touch your ass, well, they needed to be bashed. I'm sorry. and You know, just because we're not used to women that bash you for that doesn't mean that that's not what should have been happening all along.
01:08:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So I want to talk a little about your literary influences, if we may. Now we know Terry Brooks, Asimov, Piers Anthony, the the man, Stephen King. um can you Can you point to anything specific in how your your own work has been impacted by those dudes?
01:08:47
Speaker
ah Oh, my goodness. um
01:08:52
Speaker
I think that Terry Brooks was probably one of the first... authors that i read that i that i would search out you know for any time something new of his came out that was one of the things that um i would look for and i think that's where my love of kind of fantasy and um the the happy endings where magic comes in and it all works out, you know, kind of stories where that kind of came into my life. I think I play a lot of D and D because of that.
01:09:30
Speaker
um And, you know, i'm I'm all about magic because I think that magic is probably quantum physics physics that we don't quite understand yet.
01:09:42
Speaker
ah So I think that he, he really introduced me into a fairy tale-ish fantasy type of story.
01:09:53
Speaker
um I loved Pierce Anthony because of his his range, I guess. So all the Xanth novels, I loved all of those despite the inherent sexism in it.
01:10:09
Speaker
And and yet at the same time, he wrote some pretty hardcore science fiction stuff, which I can't recall off the top of my head right now. But um i from there, i think I got interested in Asimov with the sci-fi Star Trek kind of um of of stories.
01:10:36
Speaker
and And Stephen King was just, the heart of it all, the dark, scary heart of it all. Because even in all of his stories, even though there's something evil and and scary, and there's always, it always works out at the end.
01:10:55
Speaker
You know, it always feels like a satisfying ending to me. Wait, Stephen King? Yeah. Oh, yeah, i I have issues with some of Stephen King's endings.
01:11:10
Speaker
Uh-oh. Well, I know that's a that's a thing that people are kind of divided about in the community. but um and not not yeah not all of them. So, like, The Mist, that was bullshit.
01:11:25
Speaker
but Well, the movie ending is much harder than the the novella ending, certainly. Because the novella ending leaves it, I think we see the the wife die. Like, he makes it back to his house and his his wife has died. But I think they're still, like, driving and looking for a place and kind of running out of gas when the the novel ends.
01:11:44
Speaker
And then the movie was, like, Darabont saying, well, how can we make that worse? Oh, I know. Yeah. Way worse. Yeah, Darabont. Like, i wonder what goes on in Frank Darabont's head between that and like the first season of The Walking Dead. Like, how can I use horror to make people cry? Yeah.
01:12:05
Speaker
Oh my gosh, The Walking Dead. And like... I love it. I think it's it's always worth it to to get through because, I mean, The Mist in particular has so many great lessons about society and groupthink and religion and, you know, so, so much, you know, why you should stay still when a bug lands on you. I mean, there are a lot of great lessons in The Mist. Mm-hmm.
01:12:26
Speaker
But then that ending is just such a punch in the face. And I think because the message of the ending of The Mist, like if you're trying to get a message from that, the message would be to wait until the last possible second before you do anything.
01:12:42
Speaker
Yeah. But I don't know that that's a particularly good message. You know, like it's it's the message for that situation. But most situations are not that situation. Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:54
Speaker
Hopefully. if If a lot of ah interdimensional holes are being ripped through and monsters are coming in more people should be talking about it. Well, sometimes indecision is really the key to flexibility. so Yeah, yeah, very much so.
01:13:09
Speaker
So you are doing a project and it is called Tawnlandia, which I love because I'm a great fan of putting my name on my projects as well. um Your name is awesome.
01:13:23
Speaker
I feel that way now. It was not awesome as a kid. It was a giant pain in my ass. I can um imagine. Especially because i wanted I wanted to fit in. I wanted to fit in and not be a weirdo. And that's not really possible to do when you're an undiagnosed autistic little fat kid named Wednesday. um like And now people are named Wednesday. it's it's a like I don't want to say it's a normal name, but there's more Wednesdays now than there have ever been.
01:13:52
Speaker
oh yeah. Yeah, my um my parents always called me by my middle name, Kimberly, which there were 15 million Kimberleys when I was growing up. bet. have to worry about any of that.
01:14:03
Speaker
um But yeah, i I think I went the other way. um they I was in um the challenge classes, I guess, since is starting in sixth grade. So I was in smaller classes and bigger bigger schools. And a didn't, I was crazy. I didn't really care about fitting in or anything like that. um I was, I was getting in rock fights with the boys after school. wow ah um I was just kind of a a tomboy kind of thing. And yeah, I wasn't,
01:14:43
Speaker
i wasn't I wasn't really caring so much about fitting in. i was doing my own kind of crazy thing. i remember when I was in high school, I wanted to make a whole lot of noise. I used to wear bells on my shoes just because they made a whole lot of noise and I loved it. Wow, that's fantastic.
01:15:01
Speaker
ah so So tell us about Tawnlandia. Well, so Tonlandia is kind of the umbrella company, as it were, of Barnstormer Publishing. We'll be doing the serials under Tonlandia.
01:15:20
Speaker
And it's also where I have my author stuff. So I have um information on how to buy my books, audio books, that kind of thing. And um ae I believe my blog is there as well. It's a little bit ah neglected at the moment. I've been doing other stuff. um But yeah, that's kind of the catch-all for everything as it grows.
01:15:52
Speaker
Okay. and we'll have links into the description. do you have a link tree? I do. um
01:16:01
Speaker
Yeah, I'll have to look that up because I have a... I have a bio site, which is just my author information. think everything else can go through tawnlandia.com.
01:16:14
Speaker
Okay, cool. Well, yeah, we'll we'll have links so you know people can follow up. Now, I also want to talk about your pilot experience.
Aviation Background and Insights
01:16:23
Speaker
That is way outside my experience. I don't even drive cars. um But, okay, so this is something that you were always interested in and just decided to pursue as a younger person, right?
01:16:35
Speaker
Yeah. So I, um, when I was really young, I wanted to be an astronaut, but then I got to see the view from space and it freaked me out.
01:16:48
Speaker
And I said, I don't want to do that shit anymore. Um, and then wait, how did you, how how did you get to see the view from space? Well, you know, like on TV, Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. the view The view, you know, on TV from space, the astronauts view and and of the earth from the moon. And I just, that was too scary.
01:17:08
Speaker
um I'm afraid of heights and and falling and that's just, that's too much. oh So um when I got into high school, ah I was never even remotely an athletic kid. And so I took ROTC instead of gym so that I could get a decent grade in a class instead of an F in gym.
01:17:33
Speaker
So, and it was an Air Force ROTC. So there I kind of learned how to do um some navigation. You know, they teach you a little bit about um the science of of airplanes and how they work.
01:17:49
Speaker
And then I took a ah ground school class with um a friend of mine and basically learned how, you know, how airplanes, you know, navigate and and work and things like that.
01:18:05
Speaker
And my 16th birthday present was an aerobatic glider ride. So you you put on this, some you put on a parachute and you get in the back of this glider.
01:18:20
Speaker
another airplane toes you up in the air and then you release from that airplane and you we did loops and rolls and just kind of flew around all the place. And that was the coolest fricking thing ever. Yeah, it sounds like it.
01:18:42
Speaker
And my 17th birthday present was my first flight lesson. So it kind of took off from there. That is wild. Now, I imagine you have to be 18 to get your license, right?
01:18:55
Speaker
Well, you have to be 16 to get your license. To get a pilot's license? That is wild. You have to be 16. And then if you... Now, is that for farmers? for a glider's license is 14. Wow. Wow.
01:19:12
Speaker
wow
01:19:15
Speaker
I'm guessing that's so that kids on farms can do it because you have to like fly over farms sometimes to do the you know the spraying or whatever. no or is that just an okay thing to do as a 14-year-old? That blows my mind that a decade kid of that age could could fly an airplane. um but i mean it I did have a student. When I was instructing, I had students of all ages. One of them was this I want to say he was 80 years old, this, this 80 year old man who really didn't want to get his pilot's license. He just wanted to go up and fly around, you know, for a little while with somebody. okay So he, you know, and then another one of my students was this, um, 14 year old kid and he would go up once a month. Um, he had everything that he needed to have in order to, to take the test, to get his license.
01:20:14
Speaker
Except he was too young. Oh, wow. How frustrating for him. no I think he just wow was having a good time going up and flying around anyway.
01:20:25
Speaker
So what are things about being a pilot and a licensed pilot that that I would never suspect?
01:20:34
Speaker
ah I don't know. There's a lot. I don't know what your experience is with airplanes. I have no experience. ah so I think the most expensive thing I've ever flown was a $200 drone, and I almost crashed it into a tree because that's how bad I am at things. Dude, okay, I'm going tell you something. I used to have this recurring nightmare about that I'm supposed to be driving a car, but I'm not in the car. I'm like remote controlling the car and I'm so bad at it that I don't even know where the car is. Like it goes out of my vision and I can't, now that that's that's my nightmare, right? So for a while i was making money by reviewing things on Amazon. So they'd send me stuff and I test it out and then I get to keep the stuff and I get a little money.
01:21:23
Speaker
So they sent me a drone and I was like, okay, this is a really easy beginner drone. It has altitude hold and everything. So my husband and I go out in the parking lot and it's an apartment complex. And, uh,
01:21:36
Speaker
I almost cost us so much money because I was within like, it like h had to run and physically stop this drone before it hit one of my neighbor's windshields. And then I did reach a point where I was flying it and I had no idea where it had gone. And it was still flying with altitude hold. So like it was above my head level. But if you were six foot three, it would have hit you in the frigging head. So I am bad at these things. I'm bad at like anything that where you have to have hand eye coordination, like video games. I suck at them.
01:22:09
Speaker
You know, if it's not like Tetris or Frogger or something like pre 1995, I cannot play it. Like I've died in left for dead so many times because I can't climb up the ladder.
01:22:22
Speaker
You know, I'll do the whole mission and then I can't get up the ladder. So the zombies just get me. So, yeah, I'm not, not a flyer. I don't know what that would entail.
01:22:33
Speaker
Well, okay. I have one. Um, That you, I actually i have two. So first, airplanes can fly backwards.
01:22:45
Speaker
The reason that I know that is um if you're in a a relatively small airplane, you can slow it down enough so that the headwind can push you backwards.
01:23:00
Speaker
So it's kind of like being in a boat. If you're on a river in a boat and you slow down, The river can push you backwards. Okay. All right. That's insane.
01:23:13
Speaker
I'm trying to get a mental picture of Tom Cruise doing that, and I cannot. um Oh, God. Don't get me started on Tom Cruise. I hate that man. With a passion. To the point that I will watch that Edge of Tomorrow movie or whatever it is where he gets killed over and over and over again just to watch get killed.
01:23:33
Speaker
Or that stupid mummy movie that he did just so the mummy would just beat the shit out him every time. Oh, Come on. That's not a good enough reason to subject your electronics to that movie. Come on. That's like cruelty to screens. I know, but he's, he's, oh, that man. All right. So the other thing about airplanes that you may not know is that a stall is not when the engine fails.
01:24:02
Speaker
A stall is when the nose is pitched up. Actually, it's not even the nose that pitch up. It's when there's not enough air going over the top of the wing for it to continue to fly.
01:24:16
Speaker
So it doesn't have anything to do with the engines. Nope. Nothing at all to do with the engines. So we just think it does because stalling is something that a car does with its engines. Exactly.
01:24:28
Speaker
Exactly. Okay. Now, if your engine does fail, Then you don't fall out of the sky. You still have wings. You can glide, you know, depending on what the airplane is, you can glide pretty far.
01:24:40
Speaker
um Depending on how high you are also, you can glide pretty far. But yeah. it and So the idea would be to point your nose down slightly so you're like reaching the ground at the slowest pace possible. Is that yes how that works? Okay.
01:24:57
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Well, put me on a plane. I'm ready.
01:25:07
Speaker
that That is amazing. that It seems like it would feel incredibly powerful to fly a plane. Oh, yeah. Yeah. um When in the late ninety s early cargo pilot.
01:25:22
Speaker
two thousand s i was a cargo pilot And as a cargo, when you fly a small cargo plane, a small twin engine with, you know, propellers, generally you're by yourself and you're flying in the middle of the night. So there's nothing going on and there's nobody in the plane to scare but yourself. um Well, that's how an awful lot of horror movies get started.
01:25:50
Speaker
Yeah, you have to make sure you stay awake too. um And then... Uh, later on i was flying, a Learjet, which is, if you ever see all the old, um, eighties movies about drug dealers and how they're flying, know, drugs over the the pointy airplanes, those are Learjets.
01:26:14
Speaker
Um, flying a Learjet is like flying. It's like driving a sports car. Um, they'll, they're, they're very quick. And they're fairly slippery. If you, you know, if you lose track of what you're doing, it's very easy for a Learjet to bite you in the ass for doing something stupid.
01:26:36
Speaker
And, um, Our airplanes were so old, hu so old because the cargo outfits just get the crappy stuff. Um, we had Willie Nelson's old Lear 20 series.
01:26:54
Speaker
Now Lear 20 it's like the first generation of kind of Lear jets and it's got straight jet engines on there, which means that they're louder than shit.
01:27:10
Speaker
They're so loud that those Lear jets are not even allowed to fly in America anymore because they're too loud. um, so um so When you're, and and then because it's a straight jet engine, when you're taking off in one of these Lear 25s, you put the, you push the thrust levers forward and it pushes you back in your seat.
01:27:39
Speaker
um Like if you're driving ah an electric car and you, you know, you put the the gas in and it just takes off because there's no, there's no torque to it.
01:27:50
Speaker
um I'm not even sure if that's the word, but It's, it's, the the feeling is amazing. It really is. Taking off was always my favorite part.
01:28:03
Speaker
See, this is really interesting because i thought that Learjets were super fancy. And like, you know, just like decked out in opulence.
Luxury Jets and Celebrity Aircraft
01:28:14
Speaker
Opulent. Because i think because you hear about rich people having Learjets. Yeah. and And because I know nothing about this, it seemed to me that that must be something really like fancy and Trump-like that would have a chandelier and velour furniture and stuff. But I think not. I think that I thought that that was opulent because we were simply talking about people that can afford their own airplane and that you have to be quite rich to be able to do that.
01:28:44
Speaker
I think back in the day, probably that was correct. I mean, Learjet's one of the first business jets that were built, but now we have, oh goodness, Gulfstreams and Falcon jets and things that are much, much bigger. um A Learjet, I could stand up um at 5'2 in the cabin without a problem. If you were any taller than me, it was something that you would have to duck over, to get into It's not even, wow but, um, I also flew a Hawker jet, which is, you know, it's a British jet and it's a little bit wider and a little bit longer.
01:29:25
Speaker
um and it's, um, but it's the same amount of people about, you know, eight, uh, eight, nine people, uh, in the jet. Huh? And, um,
01:29:36
Speaker
And so the, the, the Lear jets can be kind of opulent in there, but they're compact. Um, whereas, you know, you get into like a, a Gulfstream five or something like that. And it's, I, I think some of those have like bedrooms or something in there. They're just freaking huge.
01:29:57
Speaker
Oh, wow. And, and I have seen Trump's airplane out here at sky Harbor as gross as it was. And it's it's pretty big.
01:30:10
Speaker
The airplane, right? Yeah. um That's the only thing that's big. about Well, his mouth is big. that Yeah, I was going to say his ego is quite sizable.
Book Discussions: Darkling Drake and Others
01:30:19
Speaker
um so So if we could move on to your catalog, actually. um if Let's say I've never read any of your work before. um is Is Darkling Drake a good place to start?
01:30:32
Speaker
Yeah, actually. So Darkling Drake was kind of my debut novel. And I actually wrote it at the same time as The Private Princess, which is they're completely on different spectrums of of the genres. But, you know, um Darkling Drake is about woman thief.
01:30:56
Speaker
She
01:31:00
Speaker
she And she discovers that she's actually a dragon. ah And she kind of gets caught up in this whole um mystery of of where she came from. And, and you know, that there's all this subterfuge within the dragon communities and things like that. um it She's kind of an anti-hero.
01:31:23
Speaker
She's not very likable. um and She's pretty mouthy. My mom was really upset that she swore like a sailor. So there's that. ah um But it's, it's, I think that's a good place to start.
01:31:42
Speaker
If you're younger than the pirate princesses, it's kind of a middle grade fairy tale-ish kind of thing where a um ah princess, a Penelope Puff and Stuff,
01:31:56
Speaker
is the ninth daughter of in the ninth generation. And there's a ah prophecy that she will go on a quest and find a treasure that will save her family and her kingdom from some great evil.
01:32:13
Speaker
And um she comes up with a ah plan to be fake pirates. in order to you know get away from her duties as a princess and be able to search for this treasure because that's what pirates do. Right, of course. And then Dragon Defender is a, it's a companion. It's not really a sequel in that Penny and her friend Megan the Dragon were playing together and Penny accidentally stumbles upon an ancient curse and gets put to sleep.
01:32:48
Speaker
So the dragon has to go on a quinz quest to save the princess.
Barnstormer Publishing Initiatives
01:32:55
Speaker
Okay, cool. That sounds so fun. ah we're We're actually nearing the end of our time. So I want to make sure that there... Was there anything that you wanted to cover that we have not gotten to?
01:33:10
Speaker
um Well, so one thing I did want to mention um is through... Barnstormer Publishing, we're starting this thing called Thrive. um It's basically a way for us to provide books to places where um people wouldn't normally have access to books. So for example, i we were looking at donating um Pat Green's books, Hearts of Glass, Living in the Rural World and Fade Away and Radiate, as well as the Safe Space book and um some children's books to places like domestic violence shelters, um children's support
01:33:57
Speaker
um i uh there's a place in in phoenix called um one in ten which is an lgbtq uh youth support uh um so we're looking to kind of partner with uh venues, indeed bookstores, and also professionals in um domestic violence, in healing, in
01:34:32
Speaker
just kind of workshops to help, ah writing workshops, music workshops, that kind of thing, to give back to the community and also put resources in places where there wouldn't normally be resources.
01:34:49
Speaker
Oh, and that reminds me, one of the other um one of the other books that we're working on um publishing is called Buford's Purposeful Day by Alexandra Cherecki.
01:35:03
Speaker
She has founded a nonprofit called beacon of hope and healing. And it's to help military and first responder families cope with PTSD and substance abuse.
01:35:19
Speaker
um So one of other things is we're partnering partnering with her to kind of help thrive um
01:35:28
Speaker
in order to help thrive, reach out and get resources to the right places. Wow, that is fantastic. particularly bringing books and bringing the arts in general to to the vulnerable.
Creativity as a Coping Mechanism
01:35:43
Speaker
I mean,
01:35:44
Speaker
I'm a big believer in creativity as a coping mechanism for kajillion different kinds of neurodivergence, mental illness, trauma, addiction recovery. I mean, the arts are so valuable there just because giving people way to express what they're feeling and what they've been through and just to get out all those emotions in a way that can be impactful, not just to the creator, but to anyone who sees that work. It's such a huge part of community and of of healing and like being there for each other.
01:36:19
Speaker
i just love that so much, John. I love it. Yeah. And that's, that's exactly how I feel about that as well, to be able to, especially kids, you know, like you were saying, to be able to give them an outlet, um, to explore how to cope with some of those feelings and, I know that a lot of authors will will write to kind of cope with those feelings. um And being able to express them in in music, in writing, really are accessible ways for people to be able to to express themselves and to to share
Influential Films and Favorite Movies
01:37:04
Speaker
vulnerability. Mm-hmm.
01:37:08
Speaker
Yep, very much so. um You know, I also like to give guests an opportunity to ask me a question if they want to. No pressure, but if you have a question, now is the time. All right.
01:37:25
Speaker
Favorite movie ever. Oh, gosh. um See, this is a tough one because I can never narrow narrow it down to one movie. ah Not ever. Because as a horror fan, I could never choose between Psycho and Night of the Living Dead because both of those were so formative for me and are such vital classics. Not not just to the horror genre, but like, you know, AFI Top 100. I mean, they're just ace, ace, ace films. um sorry In terms of non-horror films...
01:37:57
Speaker
Thank you. um But yeah, I mean, if you want to talk about non-horror, people are often shocked when they hear what my favorite two non-horror films are. um They are the first remake of Ten Commandments, which is the 1954 version of the Ten Commandments.
01:38:15
Speaker
This is will be DeMille. And also um ah Barbie. I think Barbie is one of the greatest movies ever made. love that movie so freaking much. And it just blew my mind how the the the Barbie movie came out at the same time as the like the Armageddon movie. I can't even remember now. Oppenheimer? Yeah, Oppenheimer. And just did the the juxtaposition was just so telling, you know? Yeah. Oppenheimer was a wild summer for sure. It was so wild. So wild.
01:38:56
Speaker
I love that. All right. Hey, it is, uh, just so that, you know, I recently saw sinners and that was the top of my list. Yeah. It's, it is certainly, made it to my, my top 10 horror. I mean, it's, that was just outstanding. And it's so like, I actually haven't done a second watch yet because I'm still thinking about the first watch. Um, but,
01:39:22
Speaker
Because I like to do a ah how did they do that watch where I watch specifically to see how they were able to emotionally manipulate me and and how they were able to like get me to feel certain things at certain points. But I don't want to do that yet because I'm still just so into enjoying it as for for what it is without dissecting it.
01:39:45
Speaker
so So, yeah, I'm with you. that That was incredible. And, you know, the lead, the lead, damn it, his name is escaping me now. And that's so embarrassing. um But, yeah, the the lead guy that played Smoke and Stack. I mean, that that is one of the best performances put to screen. Because he's Apollo Creed's son. I mean, I really should know this. Michael B. Jordan.
01:40:09
Speaker
Yes, my God. Michael Jordan. Yeah, I mean, if if he doesn't win an Oscar for that, then the Oscars are a sham. There's that there was better performance. am to figure out how they had him in the same scene all the time.
01:40:25
Speaker
I'm still trying to figure that out. Yeah, I mean, i think I can spot a green screen, and that's not what that was. so Right?
Humor and Closing Remarks
01:40:36
Speaker
All right, so Mad Libs, let's go. will start with... it A color.
01:40:45
Speaker
Green.
01:40:48
Speaker
All right. I'm going to need a bunch of plural nouns. Let me count one, two, three, four, five plural nouns. Five. Okay. So llamas, um, pancakes, uh, tap shoes.
01:41:12
Speaker
Eyeglasses.
01:41:15
Speaker
Gnomes.
01:41:21
Speaker
Gnomes. All right. um i need a last name.
01:41:29
Speaker
Trump. What the hell? Fantastic. Hopefully he's getting fucked by a gnome. I don't know. Do we need a verb? That's way too whimsical. He doesn't deserve it. Okay, so one, two, three adverbs. Three adverbs. um
01:41:52
Speaker
Shyly. Aggressively.
01:42:03
Speaker
And
01:42:08
Speaker
happily. know. That'll work. All right. See, Mad Libs are difficult for writers because we feel a lot of pressure to pick good words.
01:42:19
Speaker
You know, musicians don't have this problem. They just start looking around the room. We're not supposed to use of them anyway. All right. Let's see. Noun. One, two singular nouns. i need two. Okay.
01:42:34
Speaker
All right. um
01:42:38
Speaker
Escargot.
01:42:41
Speaker
And sock.
01:42:47
Speaker
I need a verb ending in ing. Fucking. I've been waiting for that. And a part of the body. Armpit.
01:43:06
Speaker
And an adjective. Adjective.
01:43:14
Speaker
Is jiggly an adjective? Yep. All right, that'll work.
01:43:22
Speaker
Okay, so this is called Curse of the Bambino, and it is from the sports section of the Mad Lib book. ah This curse began after the owner of the Boston Green Llamas traded Babe Trump, sometimes called the Bambino, the New York Pancakes. All right, I think we to sit with that for a minute, because that's good stuff right there.
01:43:48
Speaker
At the end. Oh, that was at the end of the 1919 season. I'll believe it. um Before the trade, the team was playing shyly, winning its first ever world tap shoes and dominating the game. But after the trade, things went aggressively wrong. They failed to win another escargo for the next 86 years and endured many arm printt armpit breaking losses. ah I feel like this is originally about the Cubs.
01:44:22
Speaker
New York, to whom the Bambino was happily traded, went on a decades-long fucking streak and dominated the American Sock. Okay, that's that's a little too real. Oh my god. that this I don't even know what to call this Mad Lib. It's like too accurate. It's eerie. It's like one of those South Parks that comes true two years later. um Okay, so he dominated the American Sock, winning more eyeglasses than any other team.
01:44:51
Speaker
Oh. The Babe went down in history as one of the greatest gnomes of all time. They say that Boston spent the money from the sale of the Bambino to pay for the theatrical production titled No-No Tawn.
01:45:07
Speaker
I hope it was a jiggly show. It was very jiggly. And there we have it. Hooray, Madlib. Yay! I'm really glad you could be here and that we could have this talk. It was a great conversation. I think we covered a lot of cool things. And I got to learn about airplanes. So that was sweet. Yay!
01:45:27
Speaker
I had so much fun. Thank you so much. Oh, I'm glad. I'm so glad. um I just want to remind all of our listeners that we will be back next week, unless we're not. You never can tell with me. I'm fucking crazy. um But if you want to support the show, the best way to do that is by supporting the magazine, Sometimes Hilarious Horror. You can find us on Ko-fi, and we do have an issue coming out, and OMG, it is dope. So we will see everybody next week.
01:45:53
Speaker
Thanks. Bye.