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Guest: Author Sheldon Higdon
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This week, we talk with Sheldon Higdon about his new book and writing career. We discuss how Stephen King impacted our work as young writers, the perils of psyche meds...and the perils of living without them. Also movie scores as writing music, writing about family, living with the same name as a popular character, and classic zombie lore.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Mentally Oddcast
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You are listening to the Mentally Oddcast, where we talk with creatives about neurodivergence, trauma, addiction, and all the other things that impact and inform our art. Our goal is to show everyone that no matter what you're going through, you are not alone and you can make art about it.
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Music
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You are listening to
Team Introductions and Ko-Fi Promotion
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the Mentally Oddcast. My name is Wednesday, leave Friday, and we are brought to you by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine. Do find us on Ko-Fi, that's K-O-F-I, Sometimes Hilarious Horror.
Guest Spotlight: Sheldon Higdon
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This week, we are speaking with Sheldon Higdon, and he is an award-winning author and screenwriter whose fiction has appeared in Rue Morgue, The Horror Library, Volume 8, and Tales from the Lake Volume 4, and more. He holds an MFA from Seton Hill University and is a member of the Horror Writers Association.
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His debut novel, Eerie Brothers and the Witches of Autumn, was released in 2023, and his latest, Dark Roots, is coming next month. He lives in Pittsburgh, PA.
Sheldon's Horror Influences
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Welcome, Sheldon.
00:01:20
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Hey, how you doing? ah yeah you doing If I hadn't stumbled your name, that would have been a great intro. um Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me It is our pleasure. And I am pretty excited to get my hands on your new book.
00:01:36
Speaker
We're going to be talking about that in a bit, but we always start by asking guests to tell us the story of the first horror movie that they remember seeing. And I am excited to hear yours.
00:01:48
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um For me, it's, man, it's,
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There's so many answers to this for various reasons. um And a few do pop in my mind. And one is um being, ah want to say five, six, seven years old, probably even probably around six, maybe um watching 1963 science fiction horror film called The Crawling Hand.
00:02:21
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Nice, nice. Black and white film with my mom. uh in the dark on the couch um uh and then her every now and then you know sneaking her in hand around my backside and you know running her fingers up my back or something and you know so trying to scare me and spook me and stuff like that but yeah that one comes to mind quite often um as you know as a really early film and then um You know, i another one that always pops up, too, when I was 12 or so, when Nightmare on Elm Street came out, the original back in, what, 84, I think.
00:03:00
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um You know, that one always pops into mind, too, because I was by myself seeing an R-rated film. By myself in the in the theater, too. There was nobody else there. And so I got to watch it for free because I knew the owner. And he let me in. He said, hey, you want to come in and watch this movie? I'm like, okay.
00:03:18
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Oh, neat. so Yeah, so that was the one that always pops up too. But yeah, the earliest would be the crawling hand. It sounds like you were seeking out horror from a young age.
00:03:29
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um Yeah, yeah um ah it's weird.
Personal Reflections on Horror and Life
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um Because when I was born, and I've told a story other times too, but I was pronounced dead three times when I was a baby when I was born.
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um Wow. you know I had a hole in my heart. i had collapsed lungs. I was like I said, I was pronounced dead three times. And to the point where a couple that my mom didn't even know came into her room and said they would adopt adopt me on the spot to save her the heartache of me passing away.
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um And so i tend to, you know, over the years, I've tend to come to realization that I think I was just born. From horror is just part of my makeup, part of who I am. And it's probably why everything I write has a darkness to it.
00:04:24
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And so if I were to write a children's board book about rainbows, at some point the rainbow would just be gray.
00:04:35
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So i think it's just it's just something that's innate. So it doesn't surprise me that that's part of me and what I do. But also, my mom was also loved horror.
00:04:47
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She loved King. She was a prankster, so she would always try to do scary things. um And so she gave me a lot of things as a kid, you know, all her King books. Do you remember which one you read first?
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um sha she gave me a She gave me a lot, but the the one I read first, I think I was 12, I think it was 12, was when Pet Sematary came out.
00:05:17
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um And I read that one first. And then I went back and read the paperbacks of Carrie and The Shining and whatnot that she had given me. Nice.
00:05:30
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Nice. did Did you have a favorite as a kid? um To this, it's funny because all my, you know, like the film question, a lot of it comes to just a moment that stuck with me and that book along with misery, needful things tend to be my favorites. Cause I remember reading them so young and so they've stayed with me and made an impression on me.
00:05:56
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sure. You know what i mean? So, um, Oh, totally. You know, so it's, you know, it's just, that's just how it works with me. So yeah, misery and needful things, pet cemetery. Um,
00:06:09
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you know, it's what the mid eighties probably stuff, I guess. Yeah. That's my sweet spot too with Stephen King. I think, well, Night Shift and Skeleton Crew both. I just read them over and over until they fell apart.
00:06:22
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And I think if you are a horror writer, Those books are very much a primer on ah how to choose a point of view, how to yeah parse information to the reader in a way that makes it the most impactful, you know, like that sort of thing. Especially when you read It. You know, It has so many various characters that you're always jumping around.
00:06:44
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you know, from POV to POV. And even Carrie, like the different points of view and like how one is, is scholarly and one is sort of, you know, one in one is the, the Sue Snell book and, and the perspectives just being so different.
00:06:59
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And that's something I've, I've tried hard to, uh, focus on in my own writing. Is that something like, what do what do you, what are your King takeaways that you utilize in your own work?
00:07:11
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Um, the The thing that I've come away with most, especially as I've gotten um more into writing over the years, was i won't always want to start start with structure.
00:07:23
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um How am I going to tell the story the best way? and then therefore, that helps me choose the point of view too as well. Besides just going with your main character, obviously. but you know um with For instance, with the Erie brothers, i have twin brothers.
00:07:39
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um and so um you know Before I started, I'm like, well, am I going to just tell it from one point of view the whole way through, and then he's going to let us in on the other brother, or am I going to you know go back and forth, which is what I did because I figured, well, let's get both of them involved.
00:07:54
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Definitely. But when I eventually write this, well, when I start the second book here, I'm going to start adding um points of views from other characters too, I think, you know here and there, um just to sort of expand that a little bit.
00:08:11
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cool But yeah, structure, point of view, you know, those are always things that I took from his writing and stuff.
00:08:19
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Cool. So I'm wondering, who is a lesser known horror writer that you find especially inspiring? Because everybody talks about King. We all love King. We all have feelings about it.
00:08:32
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who Who else has inspired you? Yeah. today uh it's it's weird because today i you know when i go to the bookstore i'm usually um for the most part i'm trying to catch up on back catalog know books from authors that i like that i don't have that i need to buy so it's rare for me to go in there and just pick up something from somebody i've never heard of um you know unless i see a cover that looks really cool or something um but yeah i mean one writer
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And I think um she's she's getting out there, and she is out there, I'd say. is Angela Sylvain, she wrote a book called Frostbite, which is like a a young adult book.
00:09:18
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Okay. she's she's That's a really great book, a really cool book, really cool idea as well. So, you know, I would say her, you know, and again, another writer's – it's probably so many people know, but you know, another writer I like a lot is Victor, Victor Lavelle.
00:09:41
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Um, he wrote, um, the changeling and he's, I think they became a series for Apple TV, if I'm correct. Okay.
00:09:52
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But I think that's, I think that's the one that became an Apple TV series. Um, the ballot of Tom black hero, which is a really great, uh, A novel, but almost novella, you know, um cosmic horror kind of thing. So it's really cool.
00:10:09
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um But I also, like I said, you know, Gabino Iglesias, um he's a really awesome writer. um These are probably people people know, but they're the ones I tend to look more for their work a lot.
00:10:22
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Yeah, I find that like people that I am Facebook friends with, like you know you network with so many writers, and then it just feels like you have no time because there are so many cool people that you feel like you would really connect with, and you want to get in there and read their work. But I mean, I don't have time to read three books a day. i don't think most of us Yeah.
00:10:46
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No, I mean, you know, I used to be able to read, you know, two books a week. and Now it's, you know, if I can get one book, you know, within a couple weeks, I'm, you know like right my c clubp yeah know, I'm like proud of myself.
00:11:00
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Yeah, I hear that. One book um that early on, you know, besides King, because had an aunt who was a librarian in the town I grew up in. And so I would always go to library and ask her what's new, you know, what, what's what, you know, who should I read? What should I read?
00:11:16
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And so she'd always help me find horror stuff. And then there was a book called The Crooked Tree by, I think it's, if I remember correctly, Robert, Robert Wilson, Robert C. Wilson.
00:11:29
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um It was like Native American history and stuff blended with horror and shape-shifting and stuff. And so that book has always stuck with me as an early one. That came out in 1980. so i was about nine or so when I read that one. But it's always stuck with me just because even then i was i know I loved Native American history and and stuff like that. So she knew she and knew i would like it.
00:11:55
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Therefore, it's stuck with me. Okay, cool.
Mental Health Journey
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So listen, I am aware that you live with what you refer to as recurrent major depressive disorder.
00:12:09
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So I want to get into that, starting with your initial diagnosis. How old were you? um In my late 30s. I don't remember exactly okay what age, but it was in my late thirty s probably 36, 37, somewhere in there.
00:12:24
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So do you think this is something that affected you in childhood and you just didn't have a diagnosis until later? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Um, even now I've had people who think that, you know, I could have, um, you know, bipolar, you know, which, you know, if i do my own WebMD stuff, I don't, I'm like, well, it doesn't say this, this, this, and this. So, you know, but you know, you know, I've never gotten,
00:12:54
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sort of checked out for that. And even my primary care says, I don't think that's what, you know, you have. But um yeah, as a as a kid, I didn't have support at all.
00:13:05
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oh Like, you know, i was a latchkey kid. So it was me and my mom. And so I was home a lot, basically, you know, making my own, you know, TV dinners, pot pies,
00:13:17
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things like that, you know, pizza rolls. um You know, she was, you know, cool because she'd give me all these VHS tapes, these horror films on VHS tapes and and kung fu movies and stuff and stuff. But then it was just me. had to get myself up for school.
00:13:33
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you know Come home, I had a key i had to carry around in my I was stuck in my sock in my shoe So was at the bottom my foot So I had it when got home I had to take off my shoe, get my key out You know, sometimes it'd be broken in half somehow I guess the heat of my foot or something would Oh wow broke Yeah, it was twice Yeah, see I was a girl So I wore my key on a piece of yarn around my neck Yeah, yeah And every so often the yarn would break And it would be all out panic Because there'd be a missing house key Which is why I never kept in my pocket because I was afraid, you I would pull out something out of my pocket it pop out and I want a note or something.
00:14:10
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um So, yeah, so, you know, so therefore I didn't have, you know, you know She wasn't really there for me to go to because she was doing whatever her own thing.
00:14:23
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um and Well, and when you're depressed, you don't... you're I mean, depressed people are less likely to reach out for help because it doesn't seem like it's worth it.
00:14:35
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no I would imagine if you have a busy single mom, you'd kind of feel like you don't want to bother with that sort of, you know, like there's so much else going on in your kid life that talking about feeling sad just doesn't always seem to be of the essence.
00:14:52
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Yeah. And i just didn't, you know, think even then, you know, I was like, well, what she going to do? You know, but you know, what can you do?
00:15:03
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And so i I just never told her anyways, because then I knew it would come to, you know, a long discussion. I'm like, ugh. And so I just sort of did the best I could with and whatever it was at that time. I knew I was depressed, but obviously I didn't have a name for it or or anything anything like that. But, you know, so I took all that and put it into being a class clown at school, you know, being a funny guy.
00:15:34
Speaker
Plus I was an only child, so I didn't have brothers or sisters. Um, and so, you know, or then I would started writing. Um, and then I would use my imagination to fill in some of the blanks, you know, okay, I don't have a brother or sister. So let's write a story ah and where I, uh, a character has a big family, you know, let's write a story where the character has a father in a picture too.
00:16:00
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Um, So that was sort of the way I could deal with it. um You know, and then there was times where if I couldn't deal with it, I would just um go in my closet and shut the closet and I would sit in the dark in my closet and just sit there until, you know, whenever I felt the need to come out.
00:16:21
Speaker
Wow. And so, you know, and then even today, like if I'm depressed and I do get depressed quite often,
00:16:31
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um
00:16:34
Speaker
I usually will revert to myself. I'll pull away from people. I'll, you know, not be the jovial person I usually am or silly or whatever you want to be.
00:16:46
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um ah just sort of find it easier to be on my own, I guess. and and thats And that's the other thing. um I'm fine with being alone.
00:17:00
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um You know, oftentimes I prefer that. there's times where, you know, it's like, man, if I had an an island and i had a cabin, I'd be fine. You can be set.
00:17:13
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You know, but, you know, and then I come out the other side and then I'm back to, you know, being a silly goose and whatnot and, you know, making people laugh and stuff, you know, so it's almost a duality.
00:17:27
Speaker
You know, there's one this version of me and then there's other version of me, but when I do get depressed, I try to I try the best I can to deal with it. You know, um, I don't always win, but most of the time I do.
00:17:40
Speaker
So it sounds like you're not, uh, having any ongoing therapy. Are you taking any meds? Um, I was on, was on, some volta and it It wasn't, I mean, I didn't feel was working. I even told my doctor and then they gave me something else. But instead of taking that, I just stopped taking it altogether. Like I, Cymbalta, I stopped taking it.
00:18:08
Speaker
And I can't remember what led to that. I was taking it and then something happened.
00:18:18
Speaker
I don't think I was sick or anything. I just was taking it, stopped taking it for like a few days or three or four days. And whenever I didn't take it, my head would just, there was this, I can't explain it, but my head would do something. And it's almost like your brain's being squeezed.
00:18:34
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um Oh, yeah. Yeah. I call the zoomies. it's It's like, it's like you're, it's really weird. can't explain it, but I would deal with it. And and it you get it throughout the day, you know, because you're not taking your pills. So you get this sort of reaction in your brain.
00:18:49
Speaker
And then I would deal with that for a few days on and off, on and off. you And then I just kept going, okay, just pushing another day and another day. And then next thing you know, they started, those reactions started stopping.
00:19:03
Speaker
And now I don't get them at all. And I haven't taken the any medication and three months, four months. And then the other stuff, they gave me another. I'm going to be honest, dude, that's, that's kind of scary. Yeah.
00:19:16
Speaker
Yeah, you're not supposed to. you're not. supposed to no you're not um No. But yeah, so and the other one she gave me, I just never started taking.
00:19:28
Speaker
I can't remember what it's called. It's a brand name. It's you know something that people have heard of, but I just don't remember the name of it. But I never i never took it. I never started taking it.
00:19:39
Speaker
Well, um why though? Because I don't feel they made any... difference in well no you have to take them before they make a difference well but i mean like when i was taking them it i felt no different than i do now like not even from a thinking standpoint from you know you do are you saying when you were taking them regularly you didn't feel a difference Yeah. um And how long did you take them regularly?
00:20:09
Speaker
I'm going get in your face about this, dude. Because that's, I mean, obviously I'm not a doctor and it is not incumbent on me to tell you what to do. it's It's like, you know, unsolicited advice is always criticism. I know that. So I guess I'm criticizing you. But dude, if the doctor thinks you should try it, it...
00:20:29
Speaker
I mean, doctors often know what they're talking about. Not always, but but often. Yeah, no, she knows that I don't take it anymore. And she's like, okay. yeah um Well, I mean, I'd be dead without my medication, straight up.
00:20:42
Speaker
I get depressed, I get suicidal, and I have a whole bevy of tricks that I play on myself to make sure that I don't do the insane thing that comes into my mind once every couple of years. Yeah.
00:20:58
Speaker
So I find it very concerning that you have major depressive disorder. And I mean, i suppose if you want to like not take medication, that's a choice that a lot of people make.
00:21:11
Speaker
But taking it sporadically, man, is so dangerous because honestly, the most dangerous time for a depressed person is when they start taking medication. Like if you start taking an antidepressant.
00:21:24
Speaker
Because, like, that's a thing. um If people are suicidal and then they take an antidepressant, you go from being too depressed to do anything to suddenly being motivated.
00:21:37
Speaker
And if you're motivated and suicidal at the same time, terrible things can happen. So with the the back and forth like that, that's, like, so dangerous.
00:21:48
Speaker
Well, I mean, I haven't. I don't take it. like as a needed thing. I don't take it at all. I just stop taking in general. um And I don't take the other one she prescribed. And she knows I don't take them. And she's like, okay, if you you know if you don't feel like they're working and you're okay, then I'm like, yeah.
00:22:06
Speaker
She's like, you know, but if you want to if it's a different medication, it has, you know, i mean, if you take aspirin for chickenpox, it's not going to make your chickenpox go away because that's not what it's for. like the I mean, again, I'm not trying to like tell you what to do.
00:22:23
Speaker
But I've been through, I bipolar one. That's my deal. So yeah it's it's a pretty major thing that has wreaked havoc on my life when it was untreated and when it was improperly treated because, you know, getting the wrong medication can also be extremely damaging.
00:22:40
Speaker
But i would I would encourage you to to try it out and see if a different medication doesn't help. And maybe it won't, you know, maybe it'll be a big waste of time.
00:22:51
Speaker
But i've been on finding the right medication, man, it can turn your whole life around. If your life is in need of around turning. Yeah, well, I was prescribed Paxil when I was 30. And that didn't work. And then they put me on Effexor, which...
00:23:16
Speaker
was horrible and it took me ah good year and a half to even get off of that when and when they wanted me to get off of it. i had to had to wean myself off of it and I used to have to open the pills and dump some of the little things out in order to get off of it. So it took a year and a half.
00:23:34
Speaker
And that's what the even the doctors told me. Just open it and take a little. Okay. But yeah, that one was really bad. And then I didn't take anything for years until you know, three years ago when they prescribed Cymbalta.
00:23:51
Speaker
Um, and then, you know, that's not doing anything. And so I'm like, okay. Um, cause I've taken so many pills at this point. It's like, I, I, you know, I just prefer even not to even take it if that's the case. But, um, but I, you know, my, when I have episodes of depression, it's no different than when I have it, when I'm on the pill.
00:24:14
Speaker
Um, it's it's When I was younger, i was um more prone to suicidal thoughts. Now, um it's rare for me to think that way because I have too much going on.
00:24:33
Speaker
you know I have kids. So the last thing I'm going to do is some something like that. So you know so I'm glad that i don't have those those thoughts like I did when was younger. When I was younger, that's, that's what scared me the most. was was those Oh, sure.
00:24:51
Speaker
Sure. Well, man, I got to tell you, raw dog and major depressive disorder. That's, that's a bold move. I don't think I could do it. In fact, I'm quite sure I could not do it.
00:25:04
Speaker
wouldn't anybody to do it, but that's just, you know, that's just what I did. And it wasn't, like I said, it wasn't by choice. It was something that, um, I just wasn't taking it for like a good week for some reason. I thought, okay, well just, you know, this, we already talked about this not working anyways. might as well just keep going. And so I did. And then here I am.
00:25:28
Speaker
Well, ah, what, so what, what is your current support so structure? Like, like, uh, what, what are the things that you do when you can't do it all yourself? What happens then?
00:25:44
Speaker
um
00:25:51
Speaker
Uh-oh. Yeah, well, I don't, my support structure now is just, you know, it's just, it's really just me being,
00:26:08
Speaker
you know, sort of, i'm more aware of myself and of my actions and of my, you know,
00:26:20
Speaker
okay thinking I get that that's a huge part of it just understanding what's going on yeah I try to ah for the past several years I've been really working on trying to pay attention to the now and to what's currently in the moment and I do that with thinking and I'm not you know obviously I'm not great at it because you know I still make mistakes in every other facet of my life don't we all yeah But i I am more aware of myself, if that makes sense. and so
00:26:56
Speaker
Oh, no, it totally does. It totally does. Just recognizing like when it's coming, like when the depression is coming. Because I know I have times where I'm like, wow, I better get this shit done because I am sure that tomorrow I'm not going to want to do anything.
00:27:12
Speaker
ah Yeah, and then i feel in that cloud. When I know I'm going um going there, then i try to you know, figure out what, what triggered it.
00:27:24
Speaker
um And, you know, I try to get a feel for, okay, how, you know, okay, what do I need to do, know, in this moment, or what do I need to do for tomorrow?
00:27:39
Speaker
And then I usually well just, I'll write, um, writing it for me is sort of, it's, it's for a lot of writers is therapeutic, but, um, it literally, it literally is therapeutic for me because then, um, I'm doing something I enjoy, but then I can take whatever I'm feeling, um, and put it into the words and into, onto the paper. Um, even if it comes out to be nothing, i can, I can just delete it and throw it away.
00:28:12
Speaker
Um, You know, I feel a lot of times, and I've said this to people online, you know, people are upset about something. I'm like, so write it down, get it out of your your system, write it down on paper, and then then burn the paper.
00:28:27
Speaker
Well, and it's interesting because that process, the process of writing something down, getting everything off your chest, and then destroying the thing, that appears throughout history, okay? That is has been ritualized throughout Since like ancient Greeks, it's part of like neo-paganism. And now psychiatrists have been using it since, I don't know, the 40s or 50s. Like when they moved on from the alienist theory, that is such a powerful thing.
00:28:56
Speaker
The symbolism of it, the act of doing it, the fact that it involves like if you swing that way, elemental magic, you know, it's it's a whole thing.
Writing as Therapy
00:29:07
Speaker
Well, i mean if you I mean, the way I look at it is if you could if you can take a thought, an idea, put it in the paper, on the paper, and then it's published, you've turned something that went from something that was just in thin air and made it something that people can literally touch, and then they can absorb that same thing.
00:29:33
Speaker
a book. ye you know and so It's the same thing. if you If you can take that energy and that depression or whatever it is even if it's joy, or you know it could be anything, but you put it in the paper, you're taking it from nothingness almost.
00:29:48
Speaker
you know and Then you're put it into physical form and then you're destroying it in some way, whether you're deleting it or burning it or whatever. but You're still you're taking that thing and you're turning in into reality and then you're getting rid of it.
00:30:07
Speaker
You know, so it's sort of almost the opposite, I guess, if if you will, from creating an idea to turning it into a book, you know, from nothing to something, to something to nothing.
00:30:19
Speaker
That is so interesting. And I will tell you that it's, I mean, because when you say that, it's it sounds like the end result is that you have taken your depression and used it to ah enhance and improve your your productivity as a writer.
00:30:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's I mean, it's part of who I am. So i could either fight it constantly and probably lose half the time um or stand next to it and then use it to my ability, turning into, and don't want to say a weapon, but a weapon, if you will, um a tool.
00:31:05
Speaker
ah tool, yeah. Yeah, turning it into a tool where it helps me in something that I'm doing. So in that in this case, writing.
00:31:17
Speaker
You know, it's the same, you know, when I write, I listen to music. So I'm either listening to like Slayer, you know, and and and it's weird because if I if i go to a coffee shop and write, I can write, but I can't super focus because i don't, because there's too many people around. than the team I don't know how people do that. That seems insane to me to go to a place where there's more noise and more people to to write something. I don't get it But I can't write in that environment, but I can come home, sit at my desk, throw in my earbuds and turn off music really loud in my ears ah and and then not hear the music.
00:31:56
Speaker
Yep, yep. But it's there. But if I'm not listening to Sair, then I'm listening Sair. Like, sometimes you catch yourself singing along and you didn't even realize you were listening to it. Like, oh, I guess I am. well and But I'll do that with, you know, soundtracks to films or I'll put on, you know, orchestrated music or something like that. Oh, I love film soundtracks for writing. What are you listening to right now? What films?
00:32:18
Speaker
um I was just listening to Weapons the other day. oh nice. I haven't seen that yet, so don't spoil me. yeah No, no, no, no, I won't. But so, and sometimes when I, I need to get to a certain place mentally or emotionally, then I will throw on something that will get me there, you know, whether it the type of music, you know,
00:32:43
Speaker
or song or something that will help me get me there. But then depression does the same thing. You know, if I'm, if I'm in that kind of mode, And then I use that as a tool to get me to that place in the story to, you know, um if the if a character is having a sad or a really bad moment, then i can put that into them and hopefully will come off the page that much more honest to the reader because it's coming from a real place.
00:33:11
Speaker
See, that is so interesting and impressive, particularly because like depression has, I mean, it's the reputation of depression is that it keeps people from getting shit done.
00:33:25
Speaker
You know, that it slows everything down. So to hear someone who is able to take that and use it to their advantage to get things done, that is just mind blowing. And it's crazy because last, a couple of weeks ago, we had Scott Sigler on and and he has attention deficit disorder. And he was talking about how he uses that to increase focus and how he's able to kind of turn around the stereotypes exactly how what you were saying.
00:33:55
Speaker
You know, to just take it and use it to your advantage and just finding ways to to do that. And I i love that. I just love it. And if you and if you can do that, and I'm not saying I'm a professional at it, that's for sure.
00:34:09
Speaker
But if you can do that, then to some degree, I'm not going to say you are, but to some degree, you're you're in control of it to some degree.
00:34:23
Speaker
You're not 100% control of it, obviously, because you never will be. Well, no, I mean, there's there's facets to it, and there are facets that are within your control. Yeah, but in that moment, you are in control of it because you're using to you're using it to your advantage.
00:34:38
Speaker
it's not It's not owning you at that moment. You're owning it. Right on. Right on.
Success of Sheldon's First Book
00:34:45
Speaker
So, you know, I want to talk about your first book because i was checking out the reviews for your first book and they are excellent.
00:34:52
Speaker
And you did something that i do not know that I have done. ah You impress librarians and librarians are inspired to recommend your book.
00:35:02
Speaker
That must have felt awesome. Well, there's when it comes to writing specifically, if you're going to write middle grade or even young adult in English, in general, anything you write, whether it's those or an adult novel or that. But I think specifically towards middle grade, the two best people, kind of people you can have in your corner are librarians and teachers.
00:35:27
Speaker
um And so those were obviously besides just readers in general, those groups of people were the ones that I wanted to, you know, make sure I could be a part of,
00:35:44
Speaker
from the get-go because you know I'm writing a book that they deal with those age groups daily. And so therefore, whenever I went to and went around and did speaking engagements, I went to I've done more than a dozen middle grade schools in Ohio here in Pennsylvania. they know I've done them online for virtual visits.
00:36:10
Speaker
um And so but whenever I do them in person, I bring copies of my book. I obviously I can't bring enough for everybody, but I'll bring, you know, a dozen. And then just give them to the kids, you know, the first ones to raise their hand. There you Here you go. Here go.
00:36:25
Speaker
And then I give one to the library. You know? And so um ah that way kids can have books that when that book came out, when the, the the original publisher of it, um you know, the price was 10 99 and, and,
00:36:42
Speaker
I didn't want the price to be any more because I wanted to and wanted kids to be able to afford to buy it. And I wanted parents to be able to afford to buy it. And I didn't want to sell it for, you know, 20, 25 bucks. You know, wanted it. And so $11, I thought, okay, that works.
00:36:57
Speaker
You know, that's what they came back with me for. I'm trying to remember the cover art because I saw a version of your first book that had just spectacular cover art. And I wanted to ask you about the artist, but now I don't have it in front of me.
00:37:11
Speaker
What can you tell me about it? ah Yeah, it has to sort of two boys being chased by scarecrows. Yeah. um Yeah, the artist is a a paris Parisian artist named Florian Garbe.
00:37:25
Speaker
um And he did that cover work, which too yeah which everybody loves and I find amazing. um Now, is that edition still available? Can I get that?
00:37:37
Speaker
no No, no, Since it's, since the book is now with a new publisher, Crystal Lake publishing, um, uh, they have everything, you know, it's all been given to them, switched over, if you will. Um, so, uh, the original publisher took down that book from Amazon and wherever else.
00:37:58
Speaker
So you can't order it um And so I'm not, we haven't gotten to the point yet about the covers and that for the ah reprint of that book, but um I don't know if they're going to reuse the original cover again or what, but we'll find out, I guess when the time comes. Yeah. All my new additions of books i ended up getting new covers.
00:38:22
Speaker
I think, I think that's typical because the publisher contracts with the artist like separately, then they, then they contract with the writer. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, so, but, you know, that's the great cover. So, you know, they have shoes to fill, you know, to put it generally, I guess.
00:38:44
Speaker
Yeah, because I mean, when that book came out, everybody, you know, loved the cover to the to the point where I was like, God, i hope the inside is good as the outside. was getting nervous. Oh, no, they judged my book by the cover. Yeah, exactly. How would I live up to it?
00:39:02
Speaker
But thankfully, the inside did lived up to the outside and and ad got a whole bunch of good reviews on Amazon and stuff. so And that book is a period piece, right? When is it set?
00:39:14
Speaker
um it's not It's a contemporary fantasy novel. It takes place today, you know, current times. is Is it the new one that's a period piece? No, but no, no, no. In Erie Brothers, they they do travel back to Salem of 1692. Okay. All right. I think, that yeah, that's that's what I was thinking of because like, I don't write anything that is not like happening now, you know, because I'm not i'm not super researchy.
00:39:44
Speaker
So I guess what I'm wondering is how much how much does it add to the the production time of a book when you have to research another time period? Or are you writing about time periods that you already know pretty well?
00:39:57
Speaker
Well, yeah, I know a lot about Salem and the witch trials and things of that nature and the witch trials and stuff in Europe and other countries. But so I didn't really do a whole lot of research and looking things up.
00:40:12
Speaker
But, um I mean, every now and then, you know, as you're writing, you go, oh, you know what? You know, you stop and go check something. Okay. Not like a quick reread of the Malleus Maleficarum. Yeah, yeah. And so you make a, you know, you make a quick note in your in your in your novel, you know, and so, ah you know, just keep going. But um but that doesn't mean i won't have to do further research for the next three books. So, you know, we'll see, I guess. But, yeah.
00:40:41
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, and I didn't have to do anything super extensive or anything. All right. So, and you write, is it all like YA or is that? No. Like this is an area where like, this is not my area of expertise, like the different levels of of age groups.
00:40:59
Speaker
um No, I ah wrote this one. The idea came to me, the Erie Brothers, that specific title, if you will, came to me Um, I have an, I have a daughter who's 16 and I think she was not even, wait, no, she was about three, three years old.
00:41:22
Speaker
Um, maybe two. and then I have twins. Hence the Erie brothers are twins. Um, and when they were babies, um, I,
00:41:34
Speaker
talking to a friend and I, we were talking about, I don't know what we were talking came up, I mentioned the Erie brothers. I said, that you know, I said, it'd be my version of the Hardy boys. Um, and then I just sort of held onto that. And then I said, Oh, well then that's, that's right.
00:41:51
Speaker
My version of the Hardy boys. Um, and so the Erie brothers, i kept it and just ran off with it and, and wanting to write something, um, about twins who, uh,
00:42:04
Speaker
had to figure themselves out along with their best friend and whatnot. And so, you know, their best, it's it's funny because the twins are my twins, you know, in my head. Their best friend is my oldest daughter in my head.
00:42:18
Speaker
um And so, yeah, so I didn't itch i didn't i didn't choose to write middle grade. I wrote it because it presented itself to me via my kids.
00:42:30
Speaker
I see. That's pretty cool. So that's, a wait, so that's like Eyes of the Dragon. Yeah. Eyes of the Dragon is the the book that Stephen King wrote specifically for his kids. his daughter.
00:42:42
Speaker
Yeah, for speaking he dedicated it to his daughter. Yeah, that's so cute. So wait, so did you read the Hardy Boys books as a kid? Were you a fan of those? Um, as a kid, no, but, um, I have like five or six different books that I've already had. And so then when I knew that was sort of what I wanted to aim for, which I don't think I really did justice, but, um, um, I, I reread those. I mean, they're not long and they're really short. I reread those and then, you know, um, I didn't really take much from them because of the writing back then.
00:43:21
Speaker
Um, just wasn't, you know, super great, I guess you could say. um Well, it was very, I think, I mean, I didn't read Hardy Boys books, but I read all the Nancy Drew and also Trixie Belden. I was very into, you know, the the girls that with the gumption.
00:43:38
Speaker
um And yeah, I think the writing is very simple. it's um And it tends to lack emotion, you know? yeah it's It's very story-driven.
00:43:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's kind of sterile in a way. Yeah, I agree. know You know what mean? So i read them and then i was like, okay, well, these aren't really going to sort of help me. But I will say ah the series that um if you were to read this series and then come back and read the Erie Brothers and then probably the next the next three books when i when those come out um would be Percy Jackson series.
00:44:20
Speaker
Okay. Because when I, before I started writing in this book, I, you know, I already had those books and I reread the first one, The Lightning Thief. And the whole book is, I filled it with notes, you know, circling this and and here's what he did here and, and you know, and this and that. And so that definitely was and inspiration inspiration.
00:44:43
Speaker
almost an homage to that too, to that series. Okay. Okay. You know, I used it as a sort of, you know, reference, you know, like, okay, he did this and he did that. So I'll do that, but I'm going to do it this way instead, or going to turn this, this thing he did, but I'm to turn it inside out, you know?
00:45:06
Speaker
Okay. So yeah, that was a big, an influence on me for when I was writing this one. So let me ask you this, um especially given the the younger age of of your readership, um how cognizant of you of the messaging when you write a ah long form story like that?
Family Themes in Writing
00:45:29
Speaker
Are you trying to put morals and ethics and stuff in it? No, um no, because all that kind of stuff I feel is best left to coming out subconsciously.
00:45:43
Speaker
um, themes, um, things like that. Um, to, for me, if, if I'm going to try to put a message in there specifically for, you know, the kids, I want them to, here's what I want them to learn from this. Then it's going to become overbearing, I think, cause it's going to be on my mind in the back of my head constantly.
00:46:05
Speaker
Oh, I better make sure I, I, you know, I get this point across here. um So no, I don't. and And I just think that robs the story too. But your themes or a message or anything like that, it's going to come out subconsciously anyways.
00:46:22
Speaker
um And so for this book, I mean, the message is really are just about family, about, you know, like whenever I would sign the book for kids or in general, I would write the greatest, there's no greater spell than family.
00:46:38
Speaker
ah and that's and that's what the book really is it's about discovering themselves who they are you know how they can handle um what's coming at them how they handle each other because they are twin brothers who argue um and how the deal was death how to deal with loss and grief um depression to some degree i guess um and so it's about you know all that you know and then going through turmoil and coming out the other side even stronger than what you started off as.
00:47:13
Speaker
So, and it's weird too, because one thing that does, i discovered this, don't know how many years ago, 10 years ago, maybe, maybe the less, but I don't know.
00:47:23
Speaker
I was just reading through some of my stories and stuff because i was putting them together for a collection and ah started noticing, like, huh, yeah, okay. ah But in the,
00:47:35
Speaker
quite a bit of my stories and stuff is that there's a missing father figure in a lot of the stories. Even in this one. The Arie brothers, their dad is quote-unquote dead.
00:47:48
Speaker
you know They don't know him. They died when they had their babies. you know I have um another story where a dad, a memory that he keeps reeling over and over is that his dad walked out on him.
00:48:05
Speaker
Um, and then have other stories and in my real life, I, I, last time I was physically around my dad, I was three years old, you know, and my mom picked up and left him. And so he was never in my life.
00:48:17
Speaker
So I didn't really know him. So, and then that's something that came out subconsciously in my writing. And I didn't realize that until like quite a few years ago. And and said, Oh, see, okay.
00:48:30
Speaker
Interesting. I'm actually, I'm reminded of Anne Rice because anne Rice had a child who died. And, ah you know, when they were were young, I don't know exactly how old, but they were young.
00:48:44
Speaker
And then she wrote a vampire book with a little vampire girl who, ah you know, ostensibly could not die. But then also she died. ah Spoiler alert.
00:48:55
Speaker
um And I saw an interview once where she was asked about that, about the connection between making a little vampire girl and her own child dying. And she was very offended.
00:49:06
Speaker
And she straight up denied that there was a connection. And she seemed pretty shaken for the rest of the interview that someone would say that to her. She was priding it. You know, either...
00:49:19
Speaker
Either that's something that she knew and just didn't want to talk about it or she just never realized it until then. yeah so Yeah. And that's that's a tough one like for an interviewer. just to Because it it seems very obvious from the outside looking in that of course those things are connected. But yeah, there's a ah ah always that possibility that people didn't realize it because people have asked me things my first book was a total mary sue about a girl who kills her mother like my mother's alive and but uh you know everything else is is a fictionalized account that if you knew me growing up you'd you'd recognize things from it right yeah um
00:50:01
Speaker
So it's not necessarily subconscious, but yet there are other things that people say, oh, do you realize that when you put this here, that this meant this? Like, yeah, that's my life. I realize that the things happened in it.
00:50:16
Speaker
But because I think that's a thing that whether you write you know, depending on the level of, of personal, uh, life experience you put into your fiction, and people will always guess about your writing. Like that must mean that you think this thing is okay, or that thing must've happened to you or, you know, and and it it's never that simple.
00:50:39
Speaker
it and You ever seen the, I haven't seen it in long time, but there was like a a meme going around at one point where, you know, I said, uh, you know, something like the curtain, you know, like a writing sample and it said the curtains were blue, you know, the author and then it would say, you know, then a teacher will go, well, what's those blue curtains mean? And then the author would say that they're blue, you know, like you don't have to read in everything just because they're not a reflection of the depression within my soul because the eyes are the window of the soul. It must mean that.
00:51:13
Speaker
Yeah, the curtains are closed and therefore so is my heart, you know, whatever. But um the only thing that I like within writing I'll do on purpose is I'll, um you know, I'll write a sentence in a certain way or use certain words, you know, especially I like to foreshadow.
00:51:33
Speaker
I mean, in this book, in the Erie Brothers, um i mean, right in the first chapter, already given a a clue. um, that shows up like in chapter 47 out of 50 chapters that show, you know, then the answer is in 47, you know, so it's like, so I like doing stuff like that.
00:51:52
Speaker
Um, just a subtle thing, you know might be ah a word or two, or it might be a sentence that I say, um, you know, or I like to use, um, you know, one of the spells that they, they use for, it's called a dragon's breath and they, they understand it's a fire,
00:52:10
Speaker
um spell but they don't realize that it it literally shoots out of your mouth when you use it um but in order to use it they have to say Klaatu Barada Nikto and so that you know so I like doing stuff like that because you know for me although that came from the film The Day of the Earth to Still to me i think of Ash from Army of Darkness because he messes that up um and so do they so do they in the beginning when they're they're trying to they can't remember what it was and they keep on saying you know Klaatu
00:52:41
Speaker
Klaatu Brada and Nickelback, you know, or Nickelodeon or whatever. You know, and so things like that I'll do purpose, you know. But yeah, theme and and and messages, I think, are best. Well, foreshadowing, though. I mean, that's one of those. It's it's interesting that you'd bring up foreshadowing because, know,
00:53:01
Speaker
you had mentioned pet cemetery as being one of the books that you read pretty early and pet cemetery has that dope, like super freaky instance of foreshadowing because he just outright says, and then gauge who at that time had two months to live, blah, blah, blah, blah. blah And as the reader, you're just like, wait, what?
00:53:21
Speaker
what like Hey, uncle Steve-o what's all this then? Um, so yeah it's I like to play with, I will play with symbolism too, a little bit here and there.
00:53:34
Speaker
Um, but it it just depends on, on what I, what I'm trying to do.
00:53:41
Speaker
So let's talk about dark roots. So it's, it's dropping next month. Is that right? November, November 14th. Okay. So, so what's it about? What do we need to know?
00:53:53
Speaker
Um, without giving a whole lot away, uh, it's basically again, um, This comes down to family, comes down to not knowing the people you think you know. You know, it's like the old news channel where the neighbors being interviewed and going, I knew Bob for 40 years. I didn't know he killed people. He used to mow my grass. So it's that kind of thing, not knowing the people you think you know, not knowing
00:54:29
Speaker
in this case, your own father, again, which comes back to me.
00:54:35
Speaker
And so it's just, it's basically about um ah a teacher, journalism teacher in Pittsburgh, who's going, who's at a teaching in a university, um one of my alma maters, and his 83-year-old dad commits suicide.
00:54:51
Speaker
Now, first of all, the the question people should ask is, why is there an 83-year-old guy committing suicide? Because, God forbid, he's 83. What's he have to commit suicide for?
00:55:02
Speaker
at that you know i mean You know what I mean? So, at that age, you're like, okay. it's um But, and so, therefore, he's left the old farmhouse, which is like a three-hour north up in the mountains of Pennsylvania.
00:55:17
Speaker
And he's left to fix it up and whatnot and sell it and and all that stuff. And he hasn't been back home and since he was... like as soon as he graduated, he's gone.
00:55:29
Speaker
So he even to this day, he doesn't have a whole lot of memories of it. And so then he goes back to deal with the death, to bury his dad. And you know he lot of old memories are starting to creep up, repressed memories are creeping in And then the longer he stayes stays there, the more he starts to feel uneasy. And he starts to think that maybe the place is haunted.
00:55:57
Speaker
And then he starts coming across things in the house that yeah bring back more memories. And then there's a kidnapping of a his girlfriend's son.
00:56:13
Speaker
you know And then it you know it all and all ties together and stuff. And then he has to not only He has to figure out what's happening, but he has to figure out who he is as a person and who his family was and stuff like that in the process and try to understand everything.
00:56:29
Speaker
and Wow. And get the boy back, too, in the process. Man, that's wild. all in All in, what, 53,000 words?
00:56:41
Speaker
wow it's not super long No, that's like a NaNoWriMo, except it was written by a human. yeah Get it? Because NaNoWriMo doesn't make you have to write anything anymore?
00:56:56
Speaker
Cool. and so So that's called Dark Roots, and it drops next month. We'll have links in the description. um So here's a question, and this is actually not something that was on the list that I gave you because we do like to prep guests with their questions.
00:57:11
Speaker
But um now your name is Sheldon. So you and I have first names that are commonly associated with popular fictional character. And I'm just wondering how that's going for you.
00:57:25
Speaker
um Are you talking about Sheldon Cooper? Well, yeah. I mean, there's a that show. Because, like, there was that show, which, like, it was not totally in their face in your face or whatever. But then there was a show called Young Sheldon.
00:57:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, Sheldon. I've got... When Big Bang came out, people say, oh, you know, I go to the store. Oh, like the Big Bang Theory. I'm like, no, no, no, no. So the show just came out five years ago. I came out in So I'm first...
00:57:55
Speaker
and the seventy s so im i'm first so the show came after me it's not i wasn't named after that um so yeah no but i don't get that anymore um it's funny because when i was a when i was a kid i went by scott my middle name and so my family to this day aunts and uncles call me scott or scotty or whatever um okay and so when i was in school i didn't like sheldon and i want people to know it because i knew if they found out they'd call me shelly and stuff like that um And then eventually they did find out and one person did call me that, but and andt they it they didn't, they didn't like badger me about it. It was just plain thing. But so I never used it until, um, until I wanted to, um, you know, start writing more, you know, like when I knew I wanted to start putting myself out there, uh, cause I've always written from when I was 12 to, to currently obviously, but, um,
00:58:55
Speaker
It's just i always wrote for me. um And then, you know, and everything I did wrote write, I just kept in a box, print it out, you know, put it in the box, type it out, put it in the box, whatever.
00:59:08
Speaker
Even when I had a computer, I'd save it. um But then I said, well, Sheldon is a name that you don't hear too often. So people remember it more.
00:59:19
Speaker
and it And it does have, it does rhyme with my last name, at you know, the D-O-N part. So, and then also ah when I was born, since I was born so so crazy, I weighed just under three pounds.
00:59:36
Speaker
you know I had to be in an incubator for several months and stuff. I was small. So my dad, my mom didn't like the name Sheldon. She had a different name. you know She named me Scott, but she didn't like Sheldon. My dad liked Sheldon. So he wanted a big name for me because I was so small. So he named me Sheldon after a character in his favorite Western novel.
00:59:58
Speaker
Oh. so And so that's how i got that name was because of that. Oh, wow. What novel that is, I do not know. Oh. oh And I'm surprised that name was even around whatever whatever book whatever book it was and whatever year it came out. I'm like, oh, Sheldon. Okay. All right.
01:00:17
Speaker
Sheldon was the name of the alpha male orangutan at the Detroit Zoo when I was a kid. That's the first time I heard the word that named Sheldon as a first name as opposed to a surname because I had heard it as a surname.
01:00:32
Speaker
only ah Only orangutan I know is Clyde.
01:00:38
Speaker
Yes, i'm I'm familiar with that dude as well. yeah So so that's so you ah you live in Pittsburgh. yeah which means that you are in proximity to Evans City Cemetery. Have you been? ah yeah, several times.
01:00:55
Speaker
um Matter of fact, in, I think it's the January of February issue of Rumor Magazine, and I think get the year is 2012. two thousand and twelve It has Daniel Radcliffe on the cover when he did, um was movie? Horns?
01:01:13
Speaker
No, the ghost one where it was, Oh, the woman in black. Yes. Yes. Yes. um I wrote an article because they're in the cemetery. There's a teeny little chapel and it's in the movie. Yep. Yep.
01:01:27
Speaker
Yeah. They did the, um they, they had the save the chapel fundraiser. Yes. I wrote article. That's how I got to talk to ah Gary Stryner. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. um So I wrote an article for Rube Mark about,
01:01:40
Speaker
saving it and I talked to Gary and I talked to some other people about it and I wrote an article and yeah, that article's in that issue. Oh, that's awesome. I actually, i did that for when I was writing for Zombies Own News is when that was going on.
01:01:53
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, and I guess for, for listeners that don't know, Evan city cemetery is where the cemetery scenes from night of the living dead were shot. It's kind of a horror Mecca zombie fans go there and it's a big deal.
01:02:09
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah. So I, yeah, I haven't been long time now, but I, I, uh, I used to go there quite often and then I'd go into Evan city and I went to, they have a theater and I went and watched night of the living dead there one time with, um,
01:02:25
Speaker
you know, John Russo and and and Russell Steiner and stuff like that. And so, you know, that was kind of cool to watch it in the town. It was made in, as well as the craziest was made there too.
01:02:39
Speaker
Which is, I love that movie, which is the original 28 days later, really. Yep. Exactly. So, I mean, that's exactly. So, yeah. And so um it's weird. Cause you know, I've,
01:02:53
Speaker
Over the years, like in 2003, I became an assistant for John Russo and then worked with him at his film school he had that was run by him, Romero and Russ Greiner. And so, you know, I've known those guys for well over 20 years now.
01:03:10
Speaker
Oh, wow. So, yeah, it's it's. you know when i was younger especially in the earlier time like you know i'd tell people really i'm like yeah that's it is so cool you know but now it's just well they're just friends you know it's kind of it's weird but it's um so i i you know i did get to know george to an extent um you know um not as well as i did with john and and russ but um you know uh we were yeah i'm i'm like facebook friends with those dudes so i do get to talk to them every now and then and they're just so great yeah yeah i mean we would we would we would meet um at a local restaurant um and we would just and you know and they would buy me lunch and we would just sit and talk about you know night of being dead and you know them working on and
01:04:01
Speaker
george or return of the living dead or whatever else they had going on so you know i've got to hear a lot of cool stories um and stuff over the years that nobody else probably has heard so um yeah so i i'm lucky to have gotten to know them guys yeah definitely wow
01:04:24
Speaker
Okay, so I'm looking over my question list. I want to make sure we get to everything. You actually indicated a willingness to talk about a time when you were in legitimate fear for your life. And there's a reason that we ask this question.
01:04:38
Speaker
um Because our show, you know, it's really about perspectives and introducing people to perspectives that they wouldn't normally encounter in their everyday life.
01:04:50
Speaker
um and just getting into like the uniqueness of everybody and their life experience. And Being in real genuine fear that you're going to die either from an illness or an accident, an attack, or or even self-unaliving is a much more universal experience than people realize. And the reason they don't realize it is because we don't talk about it.
01:05:16
Speaker
So this is the this is a question that we get permission to ask before the interview because we don't want to just spring it on someone. But you did indicate that you were cool answering this question. So I'd i'd love to hear what you have to say about this.
01:05:30
Speaker
it it will I want an answer because it goes goes back to having depression in the kid, like I mentioned earlier. that's For me, that's that's what the fear came from. It wasn't, you know, I mean, I have moments where, you know, i remember being in a car, leaning against, you know, like,
01:05:47
Speaker
10 years old and leaning against the door and wasn't locked. And back then you didn't have to wear seatbelts. And um somebody, my aunt turned a corner and it popped open and I fell out, but I caught myself on the little sort of handle of the door of the door, you know, oh wow my head, you know, I can see the road going by going underneath me and as I'm holding on. And my cousins in the backseat going, Oh my God. And she grabs me, you know, um, i've had it terrifying.
01:06:14
Speaker
I've had a lot of little things like that happen to me. Whereas just like, you know, sort of the grim reapers like, Hey, just letting you know, I'm not too far away. um But for me, it, it was that fear um of, of unaliving thoughts as a kid, because i was alone.
01:06:36
Speaker
I didn't have somebody to go to. I didn't even teachers. I didn't go to, you know, I, I remember being in middle school and given, ah teacher, English teacher, a paper, a story I wrote and thinking that, you know, a I want ah wanted somebody to be proud of me because I didn't really have a lot of that, you know, at home. um not that my mom was up Not that my mom wasn't proud of me or anything, but just didn't have that. Well, no, but you need to hear it. It's the attention and the time. I totally get that.
01:07:06
Speaker
Whoops. Huh? Say that again? Oh, I was just saying that like, yeah, I totally get what you're saying, like where that comes from. Yeah. Even if you, you, I mean, just, just needing to hear it, you know, that's, that's what I was getting at.
01:07:22
Speaker
Yeah. And, and to this day, I, I, I can, you know, there are moments where it's like, man, I, you know, I wish I had somebody, you know, like, cause I didn't hear, I don't know if I ever heard that from my own mom. um So there's times where if I'm watching a movie,
01:07:37
Speaker
And, you know, and I know there's that's happening in a movie and somebody, my mom finally tells the kid, I'm so proud of you at the end of that I'm just bawling because I'm craving that to this day.
01:07:48
Speaker
um But since I didn't have that support in place, you know, those thoughts, that's, like I said, it's not a, it's not a physical action of dying, but it's the fact that I could have went that way because I didn't have that support system in place. And then, so when I think about it, it's scary still, but even then not knowing how to deal with it that well um was scary because, you know, where do I go? Who do I go to?
01:08:25
Speaker
um I'm thinking this, I'm thinking that, I'm thinking the hows of doing this and doing that. And then, you know, I was somehow lucky enough to to just not do it, not go further with it.
01:08:43
Speaker
And i wrote a lot of poetry back then when i was a kid. Matter of fact, um a publisher has a collection of short stories that that they were're they might put out. I haven't heard anything yet, but they have the collection book, the short story collection.
01:09:01
Speaker
um And at the end of it, um, I have like eight or nine poems I wrote when I was like 13, 14 years old. And so, and a lot of them are, they deal with that kind of thoughts, you know, me trying to figure myself out, me talking about feeling this way.
01:09:17
Speaker
Um, so if they do publish it, those will be at the end of it. And then people are going to see, you know, what I was dealing with. And that, you know like I said, I, you know, but somehow I came out on the other side,
01:09:31
Speaker
not going away that I could easily went.
01:09:40
Speaker
Wow, man.
01:09:45
Speaker
That's intense. So, you know, with my kids, I try to you know, I make sure that they understand that, you know, I'm proud of them. And that's, you know, and if I've told them, if you ever have, you know, thoughts like this, if you ever this, you know, come to me, you know, whatever.
01:10:01
Speaker
you know, anything, you know, so they understand, you know, but as a, as myself, you know, I know kids, the last thing they want to go to is a parent.
01:10:13
Speaker
you They don't want to be around you. anyway They want to be in the room. They shut their door. You know, I mean, I was the same way. I came home, shut my door, was in the room all day. So I get it, you know, but i I, do let them know, you know, so that they, they know they can come to me and all those kinds of situations. But so far, as you know,
01:10:31
Speaker
um We're good. So. Well, and that's huge, man. I mean, that's such a ah it's a solid, like, step forward in... I mean, I don't want to say breaking cycles, because it sounds like your your mom was definitely trying her best.
01:10:47
Speaker
Yeah. But but that... but opening up the lines of communication is is just so like valuable and important. And I find that like, I don't have any kids, but I have tons and tons of opinions about parenting.
01:11:02
Speaker
Cause I didn't have like, my mom was kind of a crazy abusive gaslighter. So i have all these like or bad parent feelings, but it sounds like what you are doing is so like valuable and, and helpful and, and like, yeah,
01:11:19
Speaker
What's the word I'm looking for? it's so It's so valuable because it takes your understanding and applies it to this situation. And there's a word for that, and I can't think of it because that's the kind of writer I am.
01:11:34
Speaker
um Well, yeah. well for But yeah, I mean, that's just I just think that that's that's so great. And I'm not sure that I agree with the assessment that a kid would hate to come to their parents with something like that.
01:11:48
Speaker
Because wow if they honestly know that they can, yeah you know, that's... it's It's weird because there's, you know, um you know my kids have been bullied and there's times where I didnt find out until later, you know, because they didn't want to tell me.
01:12:05
Speaker
Oh, dang. You know, so and it and it has nothing to do with them not trusting the parents. Oh, no, man. Getting bullying is getting bullied is humiliating. Yeah, exactly. and And so or they just think that, well, dad might go off and kick somebody's ass.
01:12:20
Speaker
It's one or the other. ah he Yeah, that too. You know, but, you know, like with my mom, like you said, I mean, then I didn't know it because I i wasn't, you know, as a kid, for the most part, I would say that most kids don't.
01:12:34
Speaker
are in their own bubbles. They have their own little world. Their world is happening around them with their friends, and and that's what's important. That's what's going on. So you don't pay attention to your parents and what's going on with them, whether it's financial problems, emotional problems, whether it's marriage problems, whatever.
01:12:53
Speaker
And know so since it was me and my mom, you know I didn't understand her world. you know But as I got older, ah knew i I didn't blame her. You know, she was a great mom. She was, I mean, I write because of her. She was a writer. She um she she was offered a job to write greetings cards for Carlton Company in Cleveland. She used to write poems. She was a singer in band country bands and she wrote a lot of songs. run One song she wrote, which I can't recall the name.
01:13:23
Speaker
Or even the I have I have it in my computer so somewhere. i have the song and in the guy who originally sang it and whatnot. But she wrote a song like when she was 17, entered it into a contest to win like, you know, 100 bucks back. And, you know, this is 1950 something.
01:13:38
Speaker
um And hers won. She never got paid, but the it was then the song became a number one hit later, a couple of years later, by some famous singer, country singer.
01:13:52
Speaker
became a number one song. And then it was re-recorded in the eighties by Ronnie Millsap became a number one song then. And then it was recorded again later on. So she never saw it. And never given credit.
01:14:04
Speaker
That's crazy. So, you know, so do you remember the name of the song? i offhand, I don't, but I have it in my computer um somewhere. Cause I have it with like all this other information, um, that I've gotten from, you know, ants and stuff like that. Um, um,
01:14:22
Speaker
but you know, so, you know, she wasn't a perfect mom, but like you said, you know, she was as a single mom, she was trying her best. And I understood that as I got older, you know, and I, you know, and I got my, my dark humor from her. I got my writing from her, you know, um, my creativity from her, all that stuff. So, um, you know, I can't, I don't, I don't blame her for anything that she couldn't give me.
01:14:49
Speaker
Um, So, you know, it's just, you know, you you accept it and you move on and, you know, why hold on to, why begrudge anything when when you're not, you weren't that person, you know, and kids are like that now. I mean, my kids will never, you know, probably really understand me as a person until they're much older.
01:15:10
Speaker
Sure, sure. Okay.
01:15:13
Speaker
Okay.
01:15:17
Speaker
Alright. You know what? Actually, we have um I have a couple more horror questions here. So I do want to get back into some horror talk if that works for you.
01:15:27
Speaker
um Actually, we kind of got away from the subject of ah of movie scores as as writing music. And ah that's something that like I am also a great fan of, like I was saying.
01:15:40
Speaker
um Annihilation is a fantastic soundtrack for horror writing, I think. Because that movie was amazing. And my husband just could not stop talking about the soundtrack. He loved it.
01:15:52
Speaker
So I went ahead and bought it for us. um And I think Joker, actually, is another one that I've been playing a lot lately. yeah Because I know people have love-hate relationships with the the Joker movie, but I really, really liked it and watched it way too much when I was depressed one summer.
01:16:10
Speaker
it Well, yeah. I mean, it does cover a lot of... of you know that territory you know throughout the film yeah
01:16:21
Speaker
i mean i listened to like there's it's weird too like oh ah like lately i have the legend of sleepy hollow you know narration by a guy that i listened to so i'll put that on sort of in the background you know i listened to um just bringing up my spotify now i know like uh I have What Lies Beneath soundtrack. Oh, nice. nice here you know Even Goosebumps, the motion picture soundtrack. Poltergeist, The Beautiful Mind. And
01:16:56
Speaker
and then, ah of course, I listened to the old 1980s film soundtrack, Trick or Treat by Fastway. Nice. nice Do you have that Goblin collection?
01:17:08
Speaker
I wish. ah wish Yeah. I didn't like buy it because it was so crazy expensive, but a buddy of mine did rip a copy for me. So I have it on my computer. Oh, that's nice.
01:17:21
Speaker
And it's so good. Oh my God. um Yeah. Yeah. yeah they Yeah. I mean, they did so much, you know, and then I'll throw on to like the soundtrack for a stranger things.
01:17:34
Speaker
Oh, I didn't pick that up. I bet it's good. Yeah, I mean, it's all of that's on Spotify as well. So you can you know you can bring up each chapter, you know season one, season two, whatnot. um you know And then I listen to, like like said slaer or you know I listen to Ghost.
01:17:53
Speaker
So you know i try to I try to mix it up. But I know if I want to get to a certain place mentally or emotionally, then I'll ahll find something that sort of matches that and put that up. Yeah, yeah. That's a good plan of attack.
01:18:09
Speaker
Because ah yeah I was trying to write a battle at one point, and I ended up, I couldn't decide whether I wanted to do Bear McCreary and some ah some Battlestar Galactica, or if I wanted to do the Raman Jwadi, which ah would for me be either Westworld or Game of Thrones.
01:18:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. and yeah that because it's such good stuff but the thing about raman jawadi though is that you could hear any little snippet of it and know exactly what it is and where it's from it's like so recognizable but like i think bear mccrary i love that guy but he he has like so many different styles you know he's he's i think a lot more versatile yeah I interviewed him once for Zombie Zone News, Bear McCreary, and I was so out of my element.
01:18:59
Speaker
like Because he is such a genius and a master, and music is not... like I don't make music. It's too mathy to me. So I sort of made it a point to not get too into music so that there can be one of the major arts that I can still experience viscerally without being like,
01:19:19
Speaker
wow, you know, that's an interesting shot in that movie. I wonder why they decided to light it that way and just totally yank myself out of the medium. i have a habit of doing that. I think because of like autism and I just like think weird about everything.
01:19:34
Speaker
Well, if yeah if you if you want to get in the kitchen, then you're going to know how food's made and that kind of can ruin it sometimes. Yep, very much so. So here's a question that I have for you.
01:19:47
Speaker
people argue that horror is particularly good for young readers. Now, some people want to keep horror away from kids. And some people say that because horror stories, particularly for, for younger audiences, they involve things like problem solving. And like you were saying, loss and grief, you know, deep emotional issues or extreme scenarios.
01:20:09
Speaker
um I mean, obviously you you come on the side of horror being good, for kids because you write it and you write it for younger people but I'm wondering what you would say to people that say that horror should be kept away from kids well it's like you know it's you know that's it's like with schools nowadays they take they they don't teach cursive anymore um and I think they should because it helps cognitively it helps you
01:20:40
Speaker
um It's not just all about, oh, look, I get to write really fancy looking, you know, there there's some thinking to it. um Some, if you will, problem solving in a way. But it is good for you mentally.
01:20:54
Speaker
And so I i think horror, and I'm talking, you know, horror. I'm not talking about, you know, 1980s, you know, gore fest, things like that. Well, no, certainly age appropriate.
01:21:08
Speaker
Yeah. um You know, Poltergeist, you know, my kids, you know, even though they won't watch it, but, you know, yeah you want to watch Poltergeist in 1980? You know, I'm like, no. So I brought home that clown I got from Halloween spirit and they all freaked out. yeah ah But no, I think to me, because, I mean, obviously it, each child's different, you know,
01:21:31
Speaker
some are more mature than others. Some can, can handle what they read better than others. Um, and so as a parent, you need understand your kid first.
01:21:43
Speaker
Um, um, you know, I, I definitely, my mom, you know, when she'd bring home, know, old bitch, old horror films, you know, stack of them, you know, for me to watch all night or the weekend, cause she is going be wherever.
01:21:59
Speaker
um she never said, well, can he handle these? She just, oh, here, hey this, this one's this, and here's this one. I thought you'd like this because I a cool cover and this one's, you know, yeah so I was like, yeah, you know, I just jumped in head first and I didn't, you know, i was like, all right, this is great. Um, but I also understood too, as I get older, I knew that, you know, A, it's a movie, you know, here's how they do it. Cause would look at, you know, Fangoria back then and see behind the scenes stuff. yeah Um, but it, it does equip kids.
01:22:30
Speaker
Um, sort of a tool belt to to deal with um problems that they will either see or read a horror novel.
01:22:43
Speaker
um You know, how to maybe even how to handle certain situations to some
Gen X Resilience
01:22:48
Speaker
degree. um it preps you um for the bad to some degree, which is why a lot of people, um you know, um Gen you know,
01:23:00
Speaker
um, we can kind of handle certain things that have been handling have that been going on in the world because we've sort of been through the ringer because we did grow up as Lashkey kids. We did grow up until the streetlights came on. We did, you know, wreck on metal bikes and get cuts and scrapes and, and, you know, and whatnot.
01:23:20
Speaker
Um, we didn't watch ourselves a lot of times. Um, we did have to deal with, you know, people trying to kidnap people and serial killers and satanic panic. And, and um AIDS bursting you on the scene and the shuttles blowing up on live TV and, you know, all that stuff.
01:23:38
Speaker
Yeah. So we were equipped over the years to handle things now, specifically now because we're older.
01:23:48
Speaker
it It led us to be able to handle things now. And that's why, you know, a lot of people, you know, they make make jokes online. Oh, just, you know, leave it to the Gen X and they can, you know,
01:23:59
Speaker
and It shows us yeah shows a picture of a Gen X person like drinking wine while but buildings are burning down. you know because It's like, know okay, don't don't worry. you know this is it's We've seen this before. know you know so To some degree, you know reading horror as a young kid um and and then going progressing forward through various books and authors and stuff, you're you're prepping yourself emotionally, um mentally.
01:24:28
Speaker
No, that doesn't mean that you're solid you know by the time you reach 15 or 16 and you just got everything figured out and you can handle anything. No, of course not. But you do have a tool belt with certain tools that you can go to that can help you get through it maybe a little bit better and easier and understand it more so than other people because they haven't read that kind of stuff because all they did was read Dr. Seuss.
01:24:55
Speaker
They didn't read you know anything else because it was not safe enough. Did you ever meet any of those kids in school that didn't have TVs or they were only allowed to watch PBS?
01:25:08
Speaker
No, I knew a couple of people who weren't allowed to trick-or-treating. Okay. You know, because... God, it's evil and it's blah, blah, blah and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, there was a family Baptists on our street and they, I think that they were allowed to go trick-or-treating because everybody else did, but they weren't allowed to play games with dice.
01:25:31
Speaker
They weren't, yeah for the longest time they weren't allowed to play cards, but I think at one point their parents would let them play Uno, but they couldn't play anything with like regular cards. Yeah, well, I also had a, um,
01:25:45
Speaker
She wasn't, I mean, we were quite into the schoolmates, but we weren't like, we never were super talked a lot. You know, it's just one of those girls or guys that I, we knew each other mouth about it, but on the bus, she would get on the bus and she always had to wear long skirts and they're usually like jean material.
01:26:03
Speaker
um They come down her ankles and yeah she wasn't allowed to wear pants. um Just, you know, anywhere that was for whatever reason, I don't remember why religion whatever, but she couldn't wear them.
01:26:14
Speaker
But as soon as she got on the bus and the bus would pull away, she would yank up her skirt and then pull down her pant legs and then take off her skirt and then wear jeans to school and then reverse it when she went
Religious Modesty and Personal Freedom
01:26:26
Speaker
home, you know? And so she did that like almost every day. know, it's like, man, it's crazy that, you know, you can't like, what's, what's pants going to do to you?
01:26:35
Speaker
You know I mean? i don't, you know Oh, well, the thinking is in in the religions that have that is that the movement of a woman's legs is considered obscene and it makes men want to look at them.
01:26:49
Speaker
And that's why it's a modesty issue. So it's real, real gross and offensive. um And again, I know that because ah the Baptists that I knew didn't have to do that, but they were aware of it. So that's like how I found out about it.
01:27:04
Speaker
The thing I always thought was so crazy about it. They weren't supposed to watch horror movies. They hadn't ever seen rated R movie, which like my parents didn't really care what we watch. We watch whatever they were watching.
01:27:17
Speaker
So, but so they weren't, they were like kept from all this stuff. And yet they were like constantly terrified because of like hell and talking snakes, telling them to do stuff and tricking them to eating poison, weird apples or something.
01:27:38
Speaker
So let me ask you this.
Books Enhancing Empathy
01:27:40
Speaker
Is there a book in this world by anyone at all that you think everyone should read? Like a book that would be a great unifying book that would bring people together and improve the world? If everyone had the knowledge in this book, what book is that?
01:27:58
Speaker
I don't know about bringing the people together. Well, and I think increasing our understanding of each other in a way that increases empathy. I think that's that's what I'm going for with the question.
01:28:13
Speaker
Huh. Man. I don't know. It's a tough one, right? Yeah, i mean, you know, we could all say, you Horton hears a who.
01:28:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, that's... Probably the best answer. You know, we all, it could be a little dust mites and a flower. Yeah,
01:28:38
Speaker
I don't know. I mean,
01:28:43
Speaker
bring people together. Yeah,
01:28:47
Speaker
yeah I mean, for me, I think in the simplest terms, I mean, you know, but like one book That I tell people to read because I think it really brings out your sympathy in people.
01:29:01
Speaker
And even sympathy is The Fault in Our Stars. Okay. By John Green. don't know if you've ever read that. I have not, but I am familiar with it. Yeah, they it turned it nose made into a movie and stuff.
01:29:15
Speaker
Yep, yep. But, um you know, but yeah, because it's dealing with a person who's dealing with cancer. And, you know, it's a young adult novel. but yeah the book is i like the book better as usual um the movie's not bad i like the movie but um the book don't know just i mean i remember reading it and i was crying while i was reading it you know and when a a book can do that then i think that everybody should read that because it's bringing out it's bringing out something in you you know it's connecting to you in a way that you definitely weren't going to expect okay
01:29:53
Speaker
And so, yeah yeah, I would definitely say that because I think it it does sort of, you know, put you in a certain mindset, you know, your it puts you face to face with this character and then you are literally, you know, going through this with her and then you come out, find yourself covered in tears and you realize that, you know, it's just pulling, you know, all your,
01:30:23
Speaker
you know, it's bringing your empathy and sympathy and all that to the forefront, which is good. So, um, and that's what books do. i mean, and the more you read, the more you're building your empathy in that because you're, you know, going on these journeys with characters and you're going through things with them.
01:30:40
Speaker
Yep. You I wrote the Erie brothers, there's, there's a few scenes in there when i I remember writing it and crying while I was writing it. Um, Because I lived with these characters for so long and and I knew them so well.
01:30:52
Speaker
And then when I did something or I was talking about something that I knew was hurtful to them, then I was would end up having tears in my eyes.
01:31:07
Speaker
Well, and I mean, that's the crux of it, to to make readers feel something that they would not have felt otherwise, right? Yeah.
01:31:18
Speaker
So let's say you are advising young and aspiring authors who struggle with depression.
Advice for Young Authors
01:31:26
Speaker
What is the best advice you can give them?
01:31:30
Speaker
um
01:31:33
Speaker
I would say, you know, as a kid myself, when I was dealing with it, I just, I mean, now looking back on it, I kept, the reason I probably made it through the other side is I kept moving forward.
01:31:47
Speaker
And I know that comes off as like a really simple answer.
01:31:52
Speaker
But, you know, even even then, you know I loved, I went to school because i didn't like school. I wasn't good at school.
01:32:05
Speaker
But I went to school because if I stayed home, well, my friends were at school. So if i hang out with my friends, I need to go to school. So I was going to school to hang out with my friends.
01:32:17
Speaker
which we did because we'd be in a lot of classes together, we'd be in the halls together, lunch together, whatever. And so that, and, you know, in writing poetry and all that stuff and short stories and stuff and whatever I was writing, unfinished things and stuff, that kept me moving forward.
01:32:40
Speaker
you know, those were the reasons I kept moving forward. And so, you know, for kids today, you know, they just, they need to find, you know, a parent's aside, obviously, you know, you need to go to your parents, but, um or a teacher or someone who can help you or put you in the right, on the right path to someone else or something that can help you. But, um you know, remember what you love and whatever that may be.
01:33:08
Speaker
You know, could be drawing, could be gaming, could be just, you know, chatting online with your friends, whatever it may be. to you take that and use it to your advantage and just move forward with that.
01:33:23
Speaker
You know, and it's so the other thing too, you know, I tell a lot of writers now, especially younger writers, because everybody feels like um younger writers feel like they have to hit a certain word count every day they have to write so many pages a day they have to this they have i have to write and i can't make and it's true you want to you want to write every day all that stuff but it's okay to take time for yourself even if you're dealing with depression it's okay to go you know i'm getting sidetracked keep getting sidetracked but as a kid i grew up
01:33:57
Speaker
And I hung out in a lot of cemeteries. I was cemeteries a lot. And i there was one 600, 700 feet from me up a little hill outside of my apartment complex.
01:34:08
Speaker
And so I was hanging out in cemeteries a lot. I mean, at one point, me and my friends would play at midnight, we'd be out there playing hide and seek when we were like teenagers, 15 years old or something. but um But I would hang out there a lot and that's where I would take time for myself and just sit there, just think, you know, talk to myself, you know, be curious about the graves around me. What year is this one? Who's this? you know, and then I would start thinking, okay, or did like then I would start creating stories. How did this person die?
01:34:41
Speaker
There were only 14, you know. um And so I would let my imagination take place and then, you know, and I would sort of just okay, and then write and go to school and hang out with my friends and did the things that made me happy, you know, just little things.
01:34:57
Speaker
And that's what I think probably got me through those times, you know, which was a long time because I was from 12, 13, 14, whatever. But as I got older, I was able to start to understand things more when it regards to depression or whatever, you know, either grab ahold of it and try to figure it out or ignore it and push it away as best I could or whatever. But in time, I just, I got to handle it a little bit better, but that's what I would tell them.
01:35:31
Speaker
You know, if you love to read, then read, you know, get into a new book, you know? But I think being creative is a solid way of getting through tough times, getting whatever it is that's in you out.
01:35:48
Speaker
is good for you. Whether it's your account. Well, it hits all the buttons, you know, because it's productive. So it it gives you a sense of accomplishment when you make something. And yeah, it definitely, like, it occupies your mind. It helps you get things off your chest.
01:36:05
Speaker
And once you've created something, it can help other people. You know, nothing helps me feel better about myself when I'm feeling bad being making an improvement in someone else's life, whether it's just a phone call or some cookies or a nice note, like any small thing that it makes somebody else feel better. i feel like I've done something good and I can feel better about myself.
01:36:30
Speaker
Well, whenever I do do speaking engagements at middle schools, the one thing that we talk about a lot, or at least I talk about is,
01:36:42
Speaker
The importance of creativity and imagination.
Creativity and Mental Health
01:36:46
Speaker
And that's what I talk about a lot. And then I'll talk about, you know, and then we'll, we'll on the board, I'll, we'll create a short story together, you know, and then it becomes this big, giant interactive thing and kids are yelling out things and it's loud and they're having fun and stuff.
01:37:01
Speaker
That's awesome. But I go there because I want ah want them to know that being creative creative is important. It's just not about drawing. There's more to it than that. and Using your imagination, i think, is important.
01:37:16
Speaker
I mean, if ah my imagination created a lot of stuff for me as a kid. No, I hear that, man. If I if i had like money, my dream, actually, is to have like you know a youth center...
01:37:31
Speaker
but not so much a sporty one, but for creative kids. So you could come in and there would be instruments and there would be easels and, yeah you know, and computers that just, yes, like, like find the thing that interests you and then let's see what you can do. And even if you want to try a different thing every week, that's like, whatever, man, try all of it. Try every last thing, see what you're good at. Cause honestly, i think people would be so much happier and more,
01:38:01
Speaker
content even if they had if if we were all better at expressing ourselves and the arts are like the best way to do that or the best way to to just get in the habit of saying what's on your mind I mean how many people do you know that have like either a bad marriage or they hate their job or they have something that they've always wanted to do, but they've never done it.
01:38:25
Speaker
And if we were in the habit of expressing these things, that's like the first step to actionable changes, you know, or actionable steps. So yeah, I'm, I'm with you on that, man. And I think it's so awesome that you make it a point to go out and and talk to the kids from your experience. Cause it's such a valuable experience.
01:38:47
Speaker
And it's something that, if I may say so, men in particular seem to have a more difficult time talking about having depression and and what to do with it. And so it's it's so awesome that you do that.
01:39:01
Speaker
um We're actually nearing the end of our time, so I want to make sure that we have discussed everything that you wanted to get to. Was there anything you wanted to hit that we did not talk about? Awesome.
01:39:14
Speaker
Just off the top of my head, no, because I think we've covered so much. Yeah, I think so too. Which is a good thing. so We did great. Go us. Yeah, i'm going to pat myself on the back all night. Right?
01:39:29
Speaker
um Now, I always give guests an opportunity to ask me a question. And you and I did discuss something. um And I didn't know if you still wanted to go with that question.
01:39:39
Speaker
um well um probably not because it probably would extend the end of this into maybe a darker territory um um but
01:39:54
Speaker
ah i do want to you know being creative you know talking about creativity and stuff like that doing this podcast how long have you been doing this now oh we just had our 50th episode Yeah, okay, i did see that. okay so so yeah I mean, I've been doing the show for about two years, but we take really long breaks.
01:40:13
Speaker
Okay, um and then you do you do other things too, right? beside I know you write, but besides... I do write, I do write. But we have the magazine as well, which is like a big deal. um Because that's sometimes hilarious horror.
01:40:28
Speaker
I i guess because the podcast is another creative outlet. um from your perspective i mean i mean obviously i'm at both sides um but the reason why you're doing it you know in your chosen this format um mean you could have did a youtube channel you know you can do tiktoks you can you know there are so many different things nowadays that you you can easily do but you just and they're all an outlet of creativity and especially podcasts because
01:41:02
Speaker
and it's not It's not so much a question, it's just so much me, for as me telling you, I think it's great because peter you're you're doing a podcast for writing and about writing, but you're also bringing in things of importance writing.
01:41:18
Speaker
about
01:41:20
Speaker
issues regarding, you know, mental issues. Yeah, because honestly, the focus isn't even on writing specifically, because we do talk to a lot of different kinds of creatives here. We've had musicians, um visual artists, you know, and a lot of people, as we were saying, they kind of dabble in a lot of different things.
01:41:40
Speaker
But it is about the connection between neurodivergence, mental health, ah addiction in some cases, addiction and recovery we talk about, um you know, and and those things and how creativity and neurodivergence and mental illness sort of play off each other. And also we talk like trauma, the impact of trauma and how people use the creative arts to get through that.
01:42:06
Speaker
So, I mean, I hope it is a message that resonates with people. i hear sometimes from people that they they get a lot out of the episodes. They learn things that they they didn't realize as pertains not just to the individuals, but to conditions that people have. Like, i you know, people we we talk about, for example, EMDR theory for trauma.
01:42:29
Speaker
And a lot of people had never heard of it. So, you know. I mean... Again, creativity is definitely, a for a very important way of dealing with trauma that I have, dealing with depression. And then going on a podcast such as this, talking with somebody who's also dealing with what they have, but you're talking about it and talking about it out loud.
01:43:05
Speaker
is important. Talking about it out loud so others who are dealing with the same things, whether worse, whether not worse, um they understand that Okay, I'm not the only one who deals with this. I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm not the only one thinking like this.
01:43:22
Speaker
Yep, exactly. So it gives them it gives them a candle to get close to and feel the warmth because they know that there's others doing dealing with the same stuff.
01:43:33
Speaker
And now they get to hear others talk about it and hopefully... um a podcast like this will get them to talk about it to others. And then maybe, you hopefully that will help them in the long run.
01:43:49
Speaker
You know, so... i love that metaphor again metaphor with the candle in the warmth. That's so beautiful. So again, it's not me asking questions. just me telling you that I think this is great.
01:44:00
Speaker
I think what you're doing is great. I think it's a great thing to do. Well, thanks, man. Because the arts... And this kind of thing, they go hand in hand. How many times have you heard about a a person throughout history, you know, Mozart or somebody who you find out they dealt with whatever issue they had, but they're a genius at the same time because of the stuff they created, especially yeah painters. You know, if you talk about certain painters, painters um you know, and they, you know, but look at the work they put out, you know, and it's amazing work, but they dealt with issues and this is that those issues came out
01:44:39
Speaker
the the ugly issues if you want to put it that way came out beautiful on the other side through art yeah you know what i mean so um darkness became light you know etc etc but um so you know i think you're doing i think this is a great thing well i i forget who said it that the difference between insanity and genius is success but that's like from an outside lens from the inside. It's all the same.
01:45:07
Speaker
Cause when you're nuts, you don't necessarily feel like a genius. You just feel like a nut or unless that's your illness. but Yeah. so Sometimes you don't even realize you're being, you know, you're nuts, you know?
01:45:22
Speaker
um Yeah. There's that. all All the bad guys think they're the good guys. So, um you know, so, but yeah, well, I don't know. but that's that's a whole other show i'm definitely not not a genius that's for sure um um you know so yeah well they have men's meetings but i've never been invited to one so yeah me either well good news though we can both uh prove how smart you are when we do this mad lib are you ready for this
01:45:54
Speaker
Yeah, haven't since I've been in a while. it is time for the Mad Lib. All right, let me see here. One, two, three, four, five, six. I need seven adjectives. My goodness. Let's have them. Oh, geez.
01:46:08
Speaker
um Okay, let's remember these things now. Merve, noun, adjective. um Let's see. We'll just do simple ones that come to my mind. Tall.
01:46:19
Speaker
You need how many? Seven. So one, okay, it's tall. um
01:46:27
Speaker
Hairy.
01:46:32
Speaker
um Bumpy.
01:46:37
Speaker
um um Smelly.
01:46:43
Speaker
All right.
01:46:47
Speaker
a Rotund. Is that a good one? don't even know. Yes. um You know, by the way, and when I was in high school, I literally like got a D in English like all the way through four years.
01:47:01
Speaker
um I hated English. um So where are we at? I think it's five. need two more. Okay, two more. um
01:47:13
Speaker
Shorts and thin. Boring ones, but nonetheless. All right. I need a, let's see, one, two, pur three, four plural nouns.
01:47:28
Speaker
Wait, five. Good heavens. One, two, three, four. Yep, five plural nouns. Trees.
01:47:38
Speaker
Houses.
01:47:41
Speaker
Penguins.
01:47:46
Speaker
Two more.
01:47:57
Speaker
Band-Aids.
01:48:01
Speaker
don't know why that came to me.
01:48:04
Speaker
And let's see.
01:48:13
Speaker
Cats. All right. And I miscounted, so I need one more. Okay. Um.
01:48:21
Speaker
gerbils.
01:48:24
Speaker
And I need three singular nouns.
01:48:30
Speaker
ah Skull.
01:48:42
Speaker
Pumpkin.
01:48:45
Speaker
and
01:48:48
Speaker
Phone. There's one in front of me, so phone. phone and I need a type of liquid. Type of liquid?
01:49:01
Speaker
Blood.
01:49:04
Speaker
All right. And a verb.
01:49:11
Speaker
Jump.
01:49:14
Speaker
All right. So this is called ballpark cuisine. um Because this is from the sports section of the Mad Lib book. So here we go.
Humorous Interlude: Mad Lib Game
01:49:25
Speaker
Ah, there's nothing better than sitting in the tall bleachers with a cold cup of blood and a hot ballpark skull topped with mustard, sauerkraut, and lots of trees.
01:49:39
Speaker
Today, the food houses at many ballparks are like five-star penguins, serving everything from soup to Band-Aids. But to the true baseball pumpkin, the best stuff is sold by the hairy vendors who jump around the aisles shouting, Get your ice-cold phone!
01:50:01
Speaker
Get your roasted cats here! but bumpy dogs and cold, smelly soda remain the favorite rotund food of baseball gerbils.
01:50:13
Speaker
Some might argue the best part of going to a short game is the delicious thin cuisine.
01:50:22
Speaker
And there you have it, the Mad Lib. and Well, Sheldon, man, I am so glad that we could do this. Thank you so much for being here. so thank you.
01:50:33
Speaker
I am pretty stoked for the new book, and we wish you every success with that next month when it comes out.
Supporting the Podcast
01:50:41
Speaker
um We want to remind listeners to find us on Ko-Fi. That's K-O-F-I.
01:50:47
Speaker
ah Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine does sponsor the Mentally Oddcast. But you can sponsor us too, because we'd love to have you. and we're going to see everybody next week.
01:50:59
Speaker
Bye.