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Guest: Actor, Programmer, Gamer, Cool Guy Jonathan Harford
30 Plays12 days ago
Season four kicks off with actor and editor of Resilient Brainforest (and a bunch of other stuff) Jonathan Harford. We talk about how ADD has affected our creative projects--and how we navigate the pitfalls now. Plus AI, how horror and comedy are more alike than we notice. Wednes talks lesbian lizards and learns about Cookie Clicker, Exquisite Monster, and a movie called Krisha.
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Transcript
Introduction and Theme
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Speaker
You are listening to The Mentally Oddcast, where we talk with creatives about neurodivergence, trauma, addiction, and all the other things that impact and inform our art. Our goal is to show everyone that no matter what you're going through, you are not alone and you can make art about it.
00:00:24
Speaker
Music
00:00:34
Speaker
You are listening to the Mentally
Sponsorship and Guest Introduction
00:00:36
Speaker
Oddcast. My name is Wednesday, leave Friday, and we are sponsored by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine. Please do find us on Ko-fi.
00:00:45
Speaker
ah This week, our guest is Jonathan Harford, and this is a dude that I have known forever. Like, we went on LiveJournal, didn't we? We did. We did. I was wondering if that was going to come up just because it's, I don't know, something naturally embarrassing about LiveJournal. But no, it's fine.
00:01:04
Speaker
Well, it is. It's like knowing somebody since high school
Career Transition and Personal Projects
00:01:06
Speaker
almost. I mean, so I have a bio for you here, so I'm actually going to read it because it says, ah Jonathan is a software developer who transitioned to tech after a 10-year career as an actor in New York.
00:01:19
Speaker
Following a layoff, he has been using the time to tackle freelance work and build personal projects, including Exquisite Monster, a website for the drawing-based party game Eat Poop You Cat. We're going to talk more about that later.
Impact of ADHD on Creativity
00:01:33
Speaker
a recent adult diagnosis of ADHD has fundamentally changed his ability to approach large-scale work, and he joins the podcast to discuss how this has impacted his creative process as he seeks a full-time role where he can apply his skills and hopefully making the world a better place. Oh, that is lovely. Welcome, Jonathan. Yeah, it's big talk. Big talk, making the world a better place.
00:01:58
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I know, right? It's a target.
Making the World a Better Place
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Speaker
You know, it's funny. We had a guest last season um who felt that Elon Musk wanted to make the world a better place. um So it's just interesting, the variance between the the sorts of people who say that and and what they mean when they do say it. So we'll definitely get into that in a
First Horror Movie Experience
00:02:19
Speaker
bit.
00:02:19
Speaker
um We'd like to start by asking guests to tell us about the first horror movie that they remember seeing. So let's have it. I'm sure there were other horror movies before this that I saw, but the one that really affected me was the what has to be the scariest PG movie ever made, Poltergeist.
00:02:40
Speaker
I saw it in the theater. yeah That tree messed me up. I was scared of trees for, I saw it when I was like seven, maybe eight.
00:02:51
Speaker
And that tree, I was scared of trees until I was well into being a teenager. Okay. Yeah. that the That's actually a pretty common answer depending on age. If that movie hits you just the right age, yep, that'll stay with you. That and in-ground pools.
00:03:07
Speaker
ah Yes. Real skeletons, right? I've heard that. I have heard that. A little hard to believe, but okay. Maybe, maybe not.
Horror Tropes Discussion
00:03:17
Speaker
I mean, you know, because as a ah modern person, it's very easy to say, well, people would never be that disrespectful towards dead bodies. But we we all know enough history to know that, yes, of course we do.
00:03:30
Speaker
Of yeah course we do. Well, not to mention that, like, the whole premise was about being bad to bodies. I mean, that's that's where we get the whole
Skepticism about Ghost Stories
00:03:39
Speaker
ancient Indian burial ground trope in the first place, isn't it? Right, right. i think I think that's right. it wasn't Amityville.
00:03:45
Speaker
You would know. I don't know. ah No, Amityville was about, ah like, psychic leftovers from a murder. ah But then people might have said that maybe even that murder was caused by some triggering thing already in the house.
00:04:00
Speaker
I don't really believe in, you know, ghosts per se, like the the movie interpretation. Yeah, i don't I don't either, but it is fun to think about.
00:04:11
Speaker
um totally.
Stephen King and Horror Elements
00:04:12
Speaker
The other night, i was i was staying up late, and I just thought to myself, wouldn't it be wild if, like I don't know, I heard something scurry under the bed, or like a bleeding skull came out of the wall?
00:04:24
Speaker
That'd be so unexpected. Just so like refreshing. but i mean, I wouldn't enjoy it but yeah Right, right. I mean, because how, like, I don't know if if you're familiar with the the movie Cat's Eye. It's an anthology film that has a couple different Stephen King stories in it.
00:04:42
Speaker
And one of them is ah Drew Barrymore has a a monster that lives in her wall. And it comes out at night and it's just this little, like, trollish monster thing. And she gets a cat and the cat battles the monster. And, you know, it's it's a whole thing. But as a kid...
00:04:59
Speaker
i'm like, why don't I have a monster that lives in the wall? That would be
Twilight Zone Reflections
00:05:03
Speaker
dope. I could probably convince it to smite my enemies. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, there was that old, well, not old Twilight Zone, but there was a Twilight Zone in the 80s where there was the the Shadow Man.
00:05:15
Speaker
does that Do you remember this? Yes. yeah A kid met a Shadow Man on a playground, and then he had the Shadow Man ah fight all of his enemies. yeah And then he one night he went to the playground and saw the Shadow Man, and the Shadow Man was like, oh, I'm not your Shadow Man.
00:05:29
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And oh yeah
00:05:32
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that was the end. Yeah. They love those ironic endings. That's, that's, I, well. I don't want to go off on a whole thing about Twilight Zone because we can make a whole show
Critique of Spielberg's Twilight Zone Segment
00:05:44
Speaker
about that.
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um Oh, ah ah you know, I actually, i did want to say them I saw the movie recently because I watched it with my kid, 11 years old. Oh, wow. That is like the perfect age for the Twilight Zone movie. Oh, my God.
00:05:56
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The scariest thing about that movie was how bad the Spielberg segment was. Oh, my God. It's just made me cringe. which Which one is his? That's the one with the, um the the old folks home and then guy shows up and teaches them all to play and they all turn into kids.
00:06:17
Speaker
You know, the thing is I love Scatman Crothers. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I'm very surprised to hear that that's the Spielberg one because the kids were not good in that. And one of the things that I think of when I think of Spielberg is that he does a great job directing children, even a millimeter, which is not a great movie he had great kid performances.
00:06:39
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You know, Jaws, Jurassic Park. I mean, he's he's not messing around with with getting kids to act properly. So, yeah, I have to agree now that I know that. That's a big miss. That is a big miss.
00:06:53
Speaker
um So what I would like to
From Mathematics to Acting
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Speaker
know. because you were an actor for a long time. Now, how does one decide that they want to be an actor? Did did anything in particular inspire that? and That's okay. Well, in in college, I was doing a mathematics degree and I just did not feel fulfilled.
00:07:12
Speaker
And there was a ah poster for open auditions for a play. And i I auditioned for it, and um quite possibly because it was sexual perversity in Chicago, and it was in Liverpool, and I have an American accent. I don't know if you noticed.
00:07:30
Speaker
that might That might have been the secret to me getting cast. But I had such a good time that like, I just, you know, I was in, after that I was in as many plays as I could. And then when my wife and I, we moved to back to the States, um we decided to go to New York. And I was like, well, if I'm going to be in New York, I gotta, I gotta try this.
00:07:54
Speaker
So yeah, that was that.
Collaboration vs. Solitary Creativity
00:07:56
Speaker
Wow. That's kind of amazing. Cause you hear from, A lot of actors, you know, there's pictures of them being like seven or eight years old already being a total performance ham, you know, um but but not until college. That's that's interesting.
00:08:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I guess that is kind of strange. Yeah, well, I was a it's kind of a silly nature, but but yeah, playing a part was new to me. Well, and, you know, movies like live theater, it's it's a very collaborative medium. Like, you have to know how to work with other people to do it successfully.
00:08:32
Speaker
As opposed to being like a writer or a musician where you can potentially just lock yourself in a room and make art until you can't anymore. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, do you have a favorite film director?
Favorite Directors and Their Works
00:08:45
Speaker
i I was thinking about that. I have i have a few. it might be It might be George Miller, just because he made both ah Mad Max Fury Road and Babe Pig in the City, which I will tell you, they have a surprising number of connections.
00:09:03
Speaker
ah They both have a lot more heart than you might immediately think. And they are both like scarier than, well, Mad Max Fury Road is already pretty like, you know, ah harrowing. But Big in the City, pretty harrowing.
00:09:16
Speaker
Great movie. I unironically recommend it. Really? I've never seen any of those. Yeah, usually I tell people and they say, well, you know, I never saw Babe. And I'm like, well, you don't you don't need to.
00:09:26
Speaker
but Babe is fine. But Babe, Pig in the City is magic.
Gene Siskel's Influence and Critiques
00:09:30
Speaker
Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's weird. It's so weird. it was ah It was Gene Siskel's best movie of 1998, have you know.
00:09:42
Speaker
Well, Gene Siskel talked a lot of shit about Anthony Perkins. So I've never been a fan like, you, you would say that about fear strikes out to my face, sir. Like, um, but yes, I do recognize that a lot of people trusted his, um, various movie related viewpoints.
00:10:02
Speaker
Um, cause you know, mean, I think we're about the same age. I was a teenager for most of Siskel and Ebert doing their thing, arguing about movies, saying that slashers were going to be the downfall of cinema, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:10:16
Speaker
i know. Chill out, you couple of failed screenwriters. Well, I mean, we to be fair, we do have kind of civilization falling, and it could be the slashers that's making it happen.
00:10:28
Speaker
Okay, first of all, no. It's the death of ah Bill Paxton and David Bowie that has made us completely splinter as ah as a species. um Yeah. houseetting argument I'll stand by that. Well, the thing is, i was still, like, Bill Paxton was my favorite, favorite actor. My favorite living actor at the time had been, well, since Anthony Perkins died.
00:10:48
Speaker
Because that's how I do things. And then after Trump was elected the first time, Bill Paxton died the following February. And I was just like, well, there's nothing for me in this world anymore, which, you know, my husband did not appreciate hearing. but Well, sure.
00:11:08
Speaker
But yeah, they they were ah they were dark times. um So, okay, so I've watched a couple of your shorts with Untucked Films. um What do you want to tell us about Untucked Films for people who are not familiar?
00:11:20
Speaker
Well, I mean, it it was it was just a a team of of team of creators. There's one director that I worked with. Actually, one of the one of the Untucked team I knew from acting class, and he left his apartment and I claimed it.
00:11:39
Speaker
And that was my tenuous connection to them. And I ended up, they needed be they needed one more actor one day, so they just came by and grabbed me. And then they liked what I did. And then they cast me in in a few other projects. And, and you know, this was this was many years ago. there you know Everyone's moved on. But definitely the the most interesting projects that I was in, i went i got to go to the awards because they they submitted a number of their films to Tropfest, which is a film festival.
00:12:13
Speaker
And I got to go to their, like, I don't know what it was, the Tropfest 10th anniversary thing in Las Vegas. Oh, neat. I got have my my the movie I was in, the The Wildflower, on the big screen. And afterwards, I got to meet Rebel Wilson. and And you know ah ah James Woods complimented me on my on my performance. Wow. Mixed feelings about. Right.
00:12:39
Speaker
Yeah, that was great.
00:12:43
Speaker
Wow. OK. So one of the shorts is ah the switch, actually. is um i mean, one one of the themes is how beautiful it can be to get your heart broken.
00:12:58
Speaker
What would you like to say about that? how beautiful Well, i um I told you I moved to England ah for a little while. That was to, i followed my first girlfriend to England and we are still together.
00:13:15
Speaker
So I can't say that much about it. Wow. but um That's just incredible. It really is Yeah, on paper.
00:13:26
Speaker
Really bad idea. It worked out so well for me and arguably for her.
00:13:34
Speaker
I don't want to put words in her mouth, but she seems you guys have been together for as long as I've known you, and that's a considerable amount of time at this point. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Well, left LiveJournal when the Russians bought it, because that was, like, what, 15, 20 years ago? And I was like, yeah, I don't like how the Russians are getting into our social media, man. That's not cool. That's gonna have bad consequences down the road. and everybody was like, Russia doesn't care about us. Why would Russia care what we do? Like, yeah, I don't know, man.
00:14:03
Speaker
um Yeah, so once again, wetness was right.
00:14:11
Speaker
but so So, wow. Because I love that theme about the beauty of getting your heart broken because it means that you were able to put yourself out there. um Yeah, yeah. That's really what it was about, isn't it?
00:14:25
Speaker
ah You know, it's been a while since I saw it, but it's definitely but my favorite thing that I was in.
00:14:32
Speaker
it was just so much fun. We're going to have links to a couple of your shorts in the description. I don't know if you have a link tree or not. Everyone should have a link tree. I don't mean to advertise for them, but cause link tree doesn't cost anything. And it's great for those websites where you can only put up one link.
00:14:46
Speaker
Cause it takes people to all your links. Um, and people need to see those films because they are evergreen. It's not like, Oh, that's not relevant anymore. Do people even fall in love? No, there's still very, very much relevant. and So we'll have links for people that want to check them out.
00:15:02
Speaker
Um, Because I'll tell you, when H and I got together, i um we met in June after talking on the internet for maybe a month or two. I met him on a dating website.
00:15:17
Speaker
And then um we were he found an apartment and told me I should move into it with him in October. So that's that's how long we knew each other. And all of my friends were like,
00:15:30
Speaker
are are you serious? You just met this frigging guy. Yeah. real red flag Well, yeah. And like, I had done that previously with like, I mean, two alcoholics in a row. Like I did not have good luck. And I w I was raised by like rednecky conservatives who were suspicious of education.
00:15:48
Speaker
so that's how I, I grew up like thinking and then was like, Hmm, that doesn't seem right. Well, know that's not right. You know? And so, By the time I was in my 20s, I was like, well, okay, I understand that all those people are full of shit, but now what do I do?
00:16:06
Speaker
Like, how do you be in a real relationship where two people are respectful to each other and and don't date anybody else? How do you, you know, how do you figure out how to live with a person and not scream at them every time they annoy you? Like, I did not know any of these things.
00:16:22
Speaker
So I had to learn all of that. And, you know, it it takes a while. And one of the things when you feel off balance or off your game is that you you don't share as much and you you tend to shut down.
00:16:37
Speaker
So the the idea that like putting yourself out there enough to love someone and allow yourself to be loved, even if it doesn't work out, that is a truly beautiful thing. It's one of the best things about being a human, I think.
00:16:52
Speaker
Oh, I like that. Well, it's your short film, dude. I know, i know. That's what me think of it. um So one of the other films of yours that I saw ah is called The Funeral.
00:17:08
Speaker
And um and and it's it's a little triggering, frankly. But the first question I have is, your character actually gets to say, you'll have to go through me.
00:17:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's not, that's not something I would normally say. How much did you love that? That was so great. Well, from that makes, makes me think that you, you saw that and you thought I pulled it off, which is wonderful. Yes.
00:17:35
Speaker
Oh, that's fantastic. Yes. It's, uh, I mean, yeah, it's great to say something like that. i don't know. Something so cheesy. Well, would you say that the genre of that particular short is absurdist?
00:17:50
Speaker
um yeah i i i mean the genre most broadly i would say is ah is a dramedy because you know it's it's very funny and uh but it's about you know sad dark things uh until ah certain point and then it's like you think it's about something very sad and then it's more sad because it's like, Hey, wait a minute. That's not what I thought happened, but it seems kind of worse.
00:18:23
Speaker
I don't know about worse, but it is. Yeah. It's sad in a very different way. ah Yeah. yeah i'm I'm trying not to give spoilers because I want people to be surprised. But yeah then I realize nobody knows what we're talking about. I just feel like there's betrayal. If something like that happened to me, I think the betrayal would overwhelm me.
00:18:49
Speaker
The feeling like
00:18:53
Speaker
yeah that I've been maybe unintentionally toyed with because someone couldn't handle their shit. Well, right, but if they really honestly cannot handle their shit to that point, what do you even say?
00:19:07
Speaker
hey asshole, don't be so insane. You might break you too much. Yeah, yeah. I mean, fair point. And, yeah, if you can't take advantage of your family emotionally, who can you?
00:19:22
Speaker
Well, I had to go out and find other people to take advantage of emotionally, but, you know, that's just a me thing. Oh, well well, that's very nice. Yeah, I don't know if you know that. I i mean, I went no contact from my family in the 90s, so before we met. had some awareness of that, yeah. I know that you had a ah like a really rough family situation.
00:19:43
Speaker
Yeah. So, so yeah, so when I watch family dramas, i I tend to have a different take on them than your average family drama viewer. But not so much these days, because if you do a lot of your socializing on the Internet, the people that are messed up in the same ways that you are messed up will just sort of gravitate toward you.
00:20:04
Speaker
You're looking for an upside to the algorithm. That's probably it. Yeah. Yeah. So are you are you still open to acting roles?
00:20:15
Speaker
Well, I wouldn't say no. I mean, it i've ah last year, I actually took some improv classes just to flex that muscle, which felt pretty good. Cool.
00:20:28
Speaker
which felt felt pretty good um you know i don't have a and don't have a yearning but like if the opportunity presented itself that would be that'd be so much fun i mean it's it's such a fun thing to do to just like become somebody else that's really what it's about it's like just just i don't know yeah being someone else i guess i can't say my case so i can't elucidate on that well but it's it i mean it sounds like a small thing but it's actually a huge thing because
00:21:00
Speaker
I mean, you like inhabit a character. So it's not just, I'm going to say the line how I think they would say it, you know, with acting, it's, it's everything from your gate to your outfit, to the way you hold your head, you know, it's, it's all parts of, of character creation. Yeah.
00:21:17
Speaker
And then you get to know more about the character, you know, and I mean, you know how sometimes when you read a screenplay separate from watching a film, you're like, you can see so much more of what the actor has done.
00:21:30
Speaker
for the character. Yeah, definitely. And i also i also think you know this goes for acting, but I think it goes for so much art that if you make explanations, not explanations, but if you if you have context for the things that the audience never sees, like it bleeds through into what you do present, and it makes it like so much richer.
00:21:55
Speaker
And that's one thing I really i really like about acting and and movies. Yeah. I know one time i had to play, was a very small role, but it was the maid.
00:22:06
Speaker
And I wanted it to be interesting because, you know, I require attention. That's why i was a theater major. um And so I had remembered something I heard in an acting class.
00:22:20
Speaker
And all I did was I invented that I had a boyfriend in the other room. And so every time I was supposed to exit the stage, I would exit in this like super excited, like I cannot wait to get into the other room kind of way.
00:22:35
Speaker
And, you know, didn't say anything else about it really. And then afterwards, somebody that I had never met before came up to me and were like, where were you going? You were so excited to leave the stage.
00:22:46
Speaker
And they actually didn't even know that it was part of the performance. They really thought they actually thought I was going backstage to like drink or party or something. No, we don't start drinking until after curtain. Come on now.
00:23:02
Speaker
Yeah, i I love that kind of, but the tricks that you play on yourself. i I, yeah, I really enjoy them. Although I keep, every so often I'll i'll oh read about an actor who like, they just they just like, no, I don't pretend I'm someone else. I say the lines.
00:23:21
Speaker
I do acting. I just like, I pretend to have an emotion. I don't feel the emotion. And that just seems so bizarre to me. Well, yeah, i mean, I'm a Stanislavski person. and Like, that's that's the kind of theater that I'm into. The memory of emotion, the theater of cruelty, the, like, getting into the human experience and ripping it up and figuring out how to show it to people so that it means something.
00:23:44
Speaker
Yes, yes. And I mean, even if you even if you do a good job without, you know, trying for that kind of depth, why why are you doing this? Like, are you really having fun? Are you...
00:23:55
Speaker
Well, and that's, I mean, that's, you know, not to denigrate anyone's work in particular, but that's Bradley Cooper shit. That's like, look how handsome I am. I'm going to perform for you now by saying these lines. And they may or may not get into the the deep stuff.
00:24:11
Speaker
Now, I say that about Bradley Cooper because I was thinking of The Hangover, but now I'm remembering A Star is Born and being like, yeah, see, he went for it. I didn't see A Star is Born.
00:24:23
Speaker
but it's it's a pretty good version that that version like um i didn't know a whole lot about lady gaga until she was on american horror story hu and that lady can act omg she really can um which is why i was so disappointed to hear that she went to fash prom over the weekend there's you know the big oh the fash prom the the bezos wedding oh Oh, oh, God.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah, ah you know, both my my parents and my partner are taking trips to Europe right now, and I'm beginning to suspect that that's where they are, too. Oh, my gosh.
00:25:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, my godmother went to Rome this year, but she was, like, there and back before all the fash showed up, which I love how they're protesting it over in Venice. I just think that's swell.
00:25:12
Speaker
ah You know, it's like the the French guy that's like, they're doing this in America and you do not burn anything. Why you doing burn things? Like, well, you know, every time someone lights a cigarette, they send out the army now. So yeah, no, no burning of things. Speaking of which I know that you're living in California.
00:25:35
Speaker
Oh, yes. How's that going? um Well, I mean, where I am, it's a hotbed of liberalism. I mean, and I don't know. it's It's calm here right now, but I'm always worried that, you know, things are, I mean, like L.A., stuff shouldn't be happening L.A.,
00:25:59
Speaker
like Or America in general. or um Well, I mean, more importantly, America. But like, I don't know. i would have thought that like California would be able to protect its cities better.
00:26:11
Speaker
ah Yeah. Yeah. A few, like a week ago, i saw a post on Reddit of some flyers in my town saying that there was, that people had seen ice three blocks away from where I live.
00:26:28
Speaker
At the park three blocks away from where I live. And I don't know if, I don't know if maybe people were just messing around with that flyer, but. I doubt it. I mean, I'm sure there are people that think this is all hilarious and joke worthy, but.
00:26:43
Speaker
People who experience it, man. Because, I mean, they were here. I'm in Michigan. There's, i mean, our our nearest border is Canada. So I did not see, well, but yeah I don't know how much I should actually say, but they were, they came to our building and I don't even know if they were actually ice because people have said, oh, how do you know they're ice?
00:27:04
Speaker
And that's part of the point that you don't know. A bunch of guys show up like, and I mean, they look, a little more intense than regular Michigan militia guys, which are already fairly intense.
00:27:17
Speaker
and ah And they asked for, and I quote, the family upstairs. And I'm like, and I'm thinking to myself, is that what it says on the warrant that you certainly have because you're doing this legally?
00:27:31
Speaker
But I wouldn't let them into the building. And they kind of caught me kind of high. So I was like snarky and belligerent. Oh, that's wonderful. They asked me my name and I said I didn't have it with me.
00:27:45
Speaker
Well, the thing is, though, I try not to tell cops my name if I can help it because they just think I'm lying anyway. Right. Yeah. You know, of course like it's more dangerous for me to tell a cop my name and have him think I'm lying than it is to just be like, dude, I don't have to tell you my name. I didn't do anything.
00:28:02
Speaker
Yes, yes. And I'm a white lady, so I can do that without getting shot. So I do. Fingers crossed, yeah. Yeah. So grim. But, like, for the most part, is it just business as usual where you are?
00:28:19
Speaker
Where I am, yeah. it's I mean, I was taking ah ah but i took a bike ride like last week, and there's there are some corners where there are, like,
00:28:29
Speaker
people who they just look for people to pick them up for work. And I'm like, boy, i don't wonder how long these guys are going to and to be hanging out here. doesn't seem like it could be that much longer.
00:28:41
Speaker
yeah, apparently Home Depot parking lots that used to have people looking for work all the time not now. and it's and And I don't get it because, first of all, I don't know why Home Depot allows it.
00:28:55
Speaker
Because I happen to know That if someone is sitting outside selling those big buckets of Boy Scout popcorn or Girl Scout cookies or something, Home Depot employees will come out and make them leave.
00:29:06
Speaker
You know, like you need permission to do that sort of thing. yeah But yet, if you are a couple of kidnappers in a car that is not marked for any sort of police work and you're just grabbing people, throwing them on the ground and cuffing them, I mean...
00:29:21
Speaker
Just the fact that ah the whole thing is is just so terrifying that they don't have to prove who they are and you're just supposed to go with them. And, you know, I'm not in in especially good shape. I use a wheelchair when I go out.
00:29:35
Speaker
But I swear to you that if someone tries to grab one of us and it's just like some guy with a mask and camouflage in the middle of a city, I'm fighting. That's the hardest part to to watch is that people just go with them.
00:29:52
Speaker
It's like you you don't know who they are and we know they're not doing due process. We're being led by some guy who thinks the Constitution is optional. In the most frustrating part is how many people, you know, it's like when they they do some fash crap at a college and everybody resigns like, oh, we're not going to have DEI anymore. And so everyone resigns like what the fuck good is that supposed to do so they can just um bring in a bunch of new fash to take your place.
00:30:19
Speaker
One of the big rules of of facing fascism is don't obey in advance. yes I'm seeing too much obeying in advance. Yep. Yeah, it's it's so scary. I don't want it to get scarier.
00:30:34
Speaker
i i like I keep talking talking to my wife about, like, maybe we should look into kit getting out of here, like seeing if we can find another country to hang out in.
00:30:46
Speaker
Yeah, because I mean, it it started out being like state by state. Like I have a friend in Texas who has a kid who is trans. So he had to send his kid out of the state to live with his ex so that the kids could go to a proper doctor and not some bigot doctor um that pretends trans people aren't real or whatever the hell.
00:31:07
Speaker
So it it but that's the thing that like soon you won't be able to go from one state to another because it's going to be everywhere. and it's You won't be able to go from one state to the other to escape it.
00:31:20
Speaker
Right, exactly. Right. Because, I mean, I'm in Michigan. We still have our most of our rights here because our governor is a badass. You know, Whitmer is is not just going to lay down and let the FASH take our rights.
00:31:33
Speaker
Yeah, that's good. But that's the thing is that, like, now people are like, yeah, I'm in such and such state and I'm wondering if I can stay at your place so I can go to Planned Parenthood in the morning. God.
00:31:44
Speaker
my initial reaction is yes of course but we don't even have a spare couch right now like we don't have it because we we're poor and we don't have a lot of space but there that shouldn't be a thing there shouldn't need to be an underground railroad so that women can go to the friggin doctor so they don't die of sepsis you know i mean it it's just but but i don't want to make the whole show about this because i think that it has a way of like taking over in a conversation Well, and that's the thing. People say, oh, why do you always have to get political? Like, okay, tell me something impacting my right my life right now that's not political.
00:32:21
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, Dexter is a cinematic universe now, and that's good news. But otherwise, everything that's happened in this country in the last 20 years has been pretty fucking horrible. Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, that's that's that whole, ah well, why does everybody have to make...
00:32:37
Speaker
You know, like, why do trans people always have to talk about being trans? Like, they they weren't until you tried to make it against the law. Right. why do they have to Why do they have to shove it in my face?
00:32:49
Speaker
Old, old refrain. You mean, why do they have to exist where you can see them? Exactly. It's that upsetting for you? Yeah. Yeah. I just, I hate it.
00:33:01
Speaker
I hate it so much. it's It's hard to have empathy and be in the world. Like, i'm I'm honestly envious of people who can go through life without a drop of empathy and just not give a fuck when people are hurting beside them.
00:33:15
Speaker
You know? And it's funny, because, you know, i used to be a fast food manager. manager I was a big McDonald's breakfast manager for a couple of years after undergrad. So I had a degree doing that, which which was just great.
00:33:29
Speaker
But um the ah the the church people... are are like the worst in terms of treating people badly and being demanding and also sorry, but also racism on, on in like a lot of different levels.
00:33:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You know, there was a guy that used to work at our store and his name was Abdul. And he was amazing. He was an incredibly hard worker. The guy worked circles around me.
00:33:56
Speaker
Well, there was just, there was a customer who would come in and they always had some kind of problem with Abdul. Oh, my sandwich is incorrect. Did Abdul make it? Like, you know how racists will mispronounce someone's name on purpose to pretend like the problem is the name and not them being a dumbass.
00:34:15
Speaker
It was that thing. It's like, how are you going to be mean to Abdul? Like, he's the nicest, sweetest guy. how do you know he's not a terrorist? Yeah, it doesn't doesn't work that way. It doesn't matter how nice they are. and if they don't know them If they don't know them personally, it's just one more person to, like, think you're superior to, right?
00:34:37
Speaker
Yeah, and it's funny because, like, what what the bigots are saying about trans people now, for example... Oh, my what they used to say about gay people like 30 years ago.
00:34:48
Speaker
And then everybody met a gay person and went, wait a minute, Rick Santorum is actually wrong. And so that doesn't work anymore on gay people. But not everybody knows that they know a trans person yet. So, you know, people have that ignorant shield of like.
00:35:06
Speaker
Because, I mean, during Obama, there were people that thought Obama supporters literally ate babies and that that's why they wanted there to be abortions. Like adults were walking around thinking that and living in the world.
00:35:19
Speaker
You know, which is why it it weirds me out because of like when Obamacare, when they were trying to put through the ACA, what everybody was screaming about was that it was going to kill their grandparents, that there won't be enough money and it would kill their grandparents. Death panels.
00:35:34
Speaker
And they are literally, the FASH are passing a bill right now that's going to kill a whole lot of people's grandparents. I mean, you can't just take Medicaid away from people and and expect, I mean, there's there's a reason those programs existed and it's not so lazy people don't have to work. It's so elderly people and sick people and disabled people don't just sit there and die.
00:35:57
Speaker
Yeah, there's there's so many things that... ah So, you know, I used to think that like, oh, there's these people that I disagree with. We just see the world in a different way.
00:36:08
Speaker
And so many of them have turned out to be just like, no, they see the world as in they get what they want and everyone else is less than them. Yep. Yep.
00:36:19
Speaker
It's not, it's not, it's not a principle. No, no. And you know, yeah that you you find that out every time Disney becomes the slightest bit more inclusive and everyone loses their mind. Oh, my daughter's so sad that the little mermaid doesn't look like her any anymore.
00:36:35
Speaker
So you understand that representation is important. You just think your kids are the only ones that deserve it. yeah Gotcha.
00:36:43
Speaker
ah But I mean, Disney can go to hell right now. Disney's anti-DEI bullshit is so, so offensive to me because their media reach is is so big.
00:36:56
Speaker
hu You know, like I don't know to what extent they've... i don't I don't pay that much attention to Disney. but I can only imagine... there I mean, they seem like a very cowardly company just because they have to appeal to so many people.
00:37:09
Speaker
Well, they've gotten... they They used to... I mean, even like 10 years ago, Disney was making it a point to say, hey, gay people exist. Trans people exist. Calm down. It's a thing. It's not a big deal. You don't have to lose your minds about it.
00:37:23
Speaker
But they had a show... that's about a kids in a softball team. And there was a trans character and they cast a trans actor to play her. hu And then they decided after parents complained that they were going to keep the character, but the character was going to be a cis girl and they would have the same actress.
00:37:43
Speaker
Um, that same year or later that year, they asked a show about a Koye from a black Panther. Okay. They, they, uh,
00:37:54
Speaker
Also canceled the Princess Tiana show, which was going to be like their first show with a black female lead and black female directors. yeah Yeah. so they X that show.
00:38:05
Speaker
And then Moana was supposed to be a whole series and it was supposed to they they had like a three season order for it. It was supposed to be huge. And then they scaled it back to a sequel movie. So.
00:38:17
Speaker
most of the the brown and black stuff that they had planned is either going away or was drastically truncated around the same time that Disney started talking about woke this and, you know, DEI that. And it's, I almost wish that people wouldn't use the abbreviation.
00:38:39
Speaker
Like say it every time. you don't like Say you don't like diversity. Say you don't like equality. Say you don't like inclusion. Inclusion pisses me off. like How do you know you're not the bad guy? Of course,
00:38:51
Speaker
We just had a bunch of ah old people in wheelchairs zip tied at the Capitol because they were protesting. So yes I think appealing to people's humanity is, um I think we're past that. People are very out loud and proud about not having any humanity, it seems. Oh, i don't I don't think we're, see, I don't think we're past it. I think we still have to always like try to reach the humanity, but still protect ourselves when people disappoint us.
00:39:19
Speaker
Like always try to like, Like, if you can if you can do so safely, talk to the people who to believe the worst things. um And if you can't, absolutely don't.
00:39:32
Speaker
But like, I don't know, the only way to like change minds is to to like show that show what what's happening. Show that these, that, though you know, people are people and these things are hurting them.
00:39:46
Speaker
And I don't know. i know I hear you. I hear you. And I think that that's a valid point. And I definitely am back and forth between just protecting my own peace and saying, hey, wait a minute.
00:39:59
Speaker
That hate you're spewing is actually based on bad information. Here's the real information. Right. Just on the off chance that that works. Yeah. The real information is and you can't inform people of something that they what was it the what's that saying like you can't persuade someone no i don't remember something to persuade someone out of something they didn't logic their way into oh yeah it's gone it's that makes sense like the people that aggressively say when did trump lie like when did trump lie like
00:40:36
Speaker
um when did he tell the truth? like what What are we talking about here? It's such ah such a completely different point of view that like there's no way to like grab a hold of that shape to answer that question.
00:40:49
Speaker
yep Yep. Let me just finish nailing this jello to a tree and I'll be right with you. um So, okay. The game Eat Preview Cat.
00:41:01
Speaker
Now, I did not know that that game had a name. I was familiar with it. But I did not know that. And for those of you who don't know, it's a game where somebody will draw a picture and then someone else will look at that picture and write what it is.
00:41:18
Speaker
And then the person will see what is written there and try to draw that as a picture. And it kind of goes, I played it at a NaNoWriMo meetup. before NaNoWriMo started accepting AI and and it was good.
00:41:31
Speaker
um i was i was doing that. And it's really fun. So you ah you seem to like the game even more than I do. Tell me what's going on with that. Oh, I mean, it's, I guess I just, I don't know where i started playing it, but like i I was playing it at parties and I was like, this would just be so good to play online somewhere. And I kept waiting for the perfect online version to show up and,
00:41:57
Speaker
you know what's out there is good, but it's yeah you end up finger painting on your phone. So you can't make like a really beautiful detailed picture. no I play Eat Poop You Cat over email with a bunch of friends.
00:42:12
Speaker
And so that way people can like take hours, if they want, drawing a beautiful picture of you know Elon Musk picking his nose with a cabbage or whatever.
00:42:27
Speaker
And yeah, it's it's so good when people have the time and the tools to make nice pictures for it. um And here's here's the trick for when you play Eat Poop You Cat, because I used to play it where everyone starts and you pass around the paper. And at the end, once it gets back to the original person, everyone gets to look at the paper and give a soft little chuckle about like oh how how funny how the message changed throughout the game.
00:42:55
Speaker
No, no. What you have to do, this takes much longer, but what you have to do, each person presents each turn. Everyone has to justify their sentence and their drawing.
00:43:08
Speaker
And ah it's so much fun, that ending bit. So now when I do the emailed games, we always have like ah like an hour long video chat where we do that. And it's it's really a delight.
00:43:20
Speaker
Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. Now there are people who thinks that that in general, adults should not spend their time playing games. And I'm sure that both of us strenuously disagree with that. But what specifically would you say when you disagree with that?
00:43:36
Speaker
Oh, I've got the perfect C.S. Lewis quote. Are you ready? Yes. When I was 10, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so.
00:43:47
Speaker
Now that I am 50, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. Nice.
00:43:59
Speaker
It's a good one, right? Yeah. And that's interesting because that's something that like occurred to me as a kid because I'm the person that always loves looking ridiculous.
00:44:13
Speaker
If it's funny hat day, I want the biggest, funniest hat. If it's looked like a Smurf day, i will be head to toe in Smurf merch. Like, I always want to do whatever is the funniest, loudest thing. And it occurred to me later, it's because I was faking confidence.
00:44:31
Speaker
I was, like, pretending that I was confident enough to do all these things, which I suppose you could argue that maybe that means that I was, but it wasn't. Like, I've always been a fake it till you make it person.
00:44:44
Speaker
But my friends were always like, um oh my god, that's so childish, why would you do that? and And then around the time we all turned 30, they stopped saying those kinds of things.
00:44:56
Speaker
You know? And I'm like, I never really, like, I wanted to be, like, normal and included, but I was a weird fat chick named Wednesday, so that wasn't gonna go my way. Like, and then I found out in my, like, 40s, like, oh yeah, you're you're actually autistic and you have ADHD.
00:45:14
Speaker
Uh-huh, uh-huh. Well, that makes my entire damn life make more sense. um And that's, that's something that happened to you as well.
00:45:24
Speaker
ah ADHD diagnosis as an adult. Oh, yes. So how did that come to pass? Well, I'd always had, not always, but I'd had a suspicion for a long time. A friend of mine from high school, he got diagnosed, I don't know, when he was 19 or 20. And we were having lunch. And he was like, you know what?
00:45:43
Speaker
I think you probably have it too. And I was like, yeah, OK, whatever, maybe. um And then ah you know in 2020, everyone thought they had ADHD.
00:45:56
Speaker
ah And of course, that's when you know I was it was it was a banner year for mental health. um And a lot of people were were're you know asking psychiatrists if they might have ADHD. And and i I got screened then. And you know it was kind of inconclusive.
00:46:15
Speaker
um But then a few years later, my kid got diagnosed. And all the things he was saying, i was like, wait, that's that's not that's not unusual.
00:46:28
Speaker
is that how people feel that way? um And I went and I i saw a different psychiatrist and got screened and Yeah, yeah.
00:46:41
Speaker
ah Ever since I've been getting treatment for it, like so many things are different, you know? Well, now that you know that, I mean, it's one of those things where just having an explanation makes it like, even if it doesn't come with a cure, like just knowing what it is.
00:47:05
Speaker
makes such a profound difference. Like, oh, I'm not just lazy. I have an inability to do this because of a specific reason. And maybe if I employ these specific tools, that will help it be different.
00:47:18
Speaker
I had been beating myself up for not having finished another novel. I had not finished a novel since the victor Finster Effect, which came out in 2012. And I still had a day job at that point.
00:47:32
Speaker
And then I started writing for a living after I left my last day job and I didn't write creatively for a long time. And then when I sat down and tried to do a novel, I i couldn't do it. I couldn't keep it straight.
00:47:44
Speaker
And then finally that diagnosis came along and I was like, you know what? I'm just going to try short stories for a while. And I have been extremely, i mean, i had, I've had two anthologies come out since 2020 Or, well, I guess you're not supposed to call them anthologies. if It's just you.
00:48:04
Speaker
Collections, I think is the word. Yeah, that's a snooty writer thing. But, um so yeah, I had two collections of stories come out. I started, well, I started the magazine. And the magazine at first was just me. I was just trying to write regularly.
00:48:18
Speaker
But I guess the point that I'm making is that once you understand what your limitations are, you can really throw yourself into the things that you know that you can do.
00:48:29
Speaker
you know and And there's still that sense of like, all right, I'm going to hone my skills and and work toward this or work toward that goal. But it doesn't seem as hopeless because knowing what the problem is means that you can see a path forward.
00:48:46
Speaker
hmm. Yeah, I um i remember you know all the all the potential that I had as a student that teachers would say that I wasn't and wasn't living up to. Mm-hmm.
00:49:01
Speaker
Yeah. oh, maybe maybe it's not just because I'm a a bad person. you know Maybe there is like real reasons for it. And I know there's real reasons for it. Because since I've been getting treatment, I feel like I can do things that I just would have seemed completely alien ah while back. Like this the the the exquisite monster.
00:49:25
Speaker
like I've ah let me tell you how many times I've started making an Eat Poop You Cat game, a website Eat Poop You Cat game, like four or five times.
00:49:36
Speaker
And every time I'm like, OK, well, that was fun. Now I'm going to do something else. not But yeah, i I got this made. I'm not getting anyone to play it yet.
00:49:47
Speaker
ah the The demand is not quite where I was hoping it would be. Well, it will be once this episode goes live. Come on, man. Well, yeah, obviously. Tens of people will know that this is happening.
00:50:02
Speaker
i yeah I look back at like decisions that I've made, and i like going into acting was really appealing because um you know once you have your lines, everything else is kind of pulled out of you, right? like Doing something where I have to sit down and be be productive on my own.
00:50:25
Speaker
like i i ah I tried to get a master's degree, and I could not hack that thesis. like ah every time I tried to work on it, it was just like, I don't, like the gears in my head, they're just like two slippery wheels, like rubbing against each other. Nothing's going on there. I couldn't make anything move in my head.
00:50:48
Speaker
ah But now, yeah, it's, it's kind of amazing. That is, that is so relatable. Cause I mean, it's like when,
00:51:00
Speaker
You get overwhelmed because you have so many things to do. you don't, you can't do anything because everything seems like it's the wrong decision. huh And it just, ah I mean, like I'm not medicated for ADHD.
00:51:14
Speaker
um I take ah mushroom supplements, lion's mane. Everybody's talking about lion's mane now. And there's like willow bark. There's like a couple different supplements.
00:51:25
Speaker
And I, i I am actually a believer in in supplements. Like I take all my vitamins individually to make sure I'm getting exactly the ones I need and nothing else.
00:51:37
Speaker
But um i can't I can't necessarily say with certainty that like these supplements are helping me. But I know that I feel better and I feel a little clearer when I take them.
00:51:50
Speaker
So if it is psychosomatic, like if I'm just tricking myself into thinking I feel better, i don't care. It's nine bucks a month. I'll just do it. Cause I mean, well, mind games are a thing like, you know, being a woman in particular, you get taught a lot of mind games as a kid because you have to tolerate a lot of bullshit and like finding out now that I have something that is called justice sensitive autism, which is one tiny part of the spectrum.
00:52:21
Speaker
But it's like when I have like just a breakdown Even as a kid, I'm like understanding that the big breakdowns I used to have were because I knew that things that were happening were not fair and that nobody was doing anything about it.
00:52:37
Speaker
Oh my gosh. So America is kind of kicking my ass right now. Yeah, yeah, I could see that. Yeah, that makes sense. When you know that what's happening is not fair and not right and that decent people are getting screwed and a bunch of wife-beating alcoholic rapists are making everybody's decisions for them, it's a little much.
00:52:59
Speaker
Yeah, that doesn't seem very compatible with this country. should get that You should update your software. I don't know. That's terrible. It's almost like a bad joke. well Or a very, very hilarious joke.
00:53:17
Speaker
There you go. oh So bitter. you know Well, that's why we do the magazine Sometimes Hilarious Horror. Because... Just because people are dying horribly doesn't mean you can't laugh about it. That's just what black comedy is.
00:53:30
Speaker
Absolutely. Dark, dark, dark. Yeah, i'm actually, something I wanted to talk about, just because in your question about me asking you something, was the, what does horror mean to you?
00:53:48
Speaker
um Just because it means to me, like, it's kind of the other side of comedy. Like, it's always about subverting expectations and tension and release. Mm-hmm.
00:53:58
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I mean, there are a lot of different answers to that that question, certainly. Yeah. because horror, I mean, it's it's supposed to be frightening, for example. Like, I'm always of the mind of of, like, I always want to use the most inclusive definition of horror as possible.
00:54:17
Speaker
But when someone says that a movie like White Oleander or Jaws are not horror because they have other elements. Oh, no, that's a drama a drama with horrific elements.
00:54:27
Speaker
Like, look me in the face and tell me that Jaws isn't horror. And I'll think you're nuts because if a small child is eaten alive in front of you and you're not horrified, i don't want to know you. that's not a That's not a person that I want to hang out with.
00:54:41
Speaker
Someone that's not horrified by that. um Some people say that like sci-fi is about where we're going as a society and horror is about looking at who we are as individual humans, like exploring the depths of the human condition, how much we can tolerate You know, how, what, what does it take to push someone over the edge?
00:55:05
Speaker
You know, but, but a lot of values that are not horror talk about what happens when you push someone over the edge. I mean, the whole Batman Joker one bad day thing is, is essentially that.
00:55:16
Speaker
And, you know, whether or not the Joker is a, is considered a horror character kind of depends on who you ask. Cause again, right the Joker is, is a bad man. He does bad things for bad reasons. Right.
00:55:30
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I mean, a lot of it has to, well, I mean, your your point is that it doesn't have to do with the tone, right? Not necessarily, no. Not necessarily, but I mean, don't know. That's kind of what means horror to me. Like, there's a movie, Cresha, have you ever seen that one? No, uh-uh.
00:55:51
Speaker
it's it's It's a Thanksgiving dinner movie, a family Thanksgiving dinner movie. And it's not like, oh my gosh, this family is so messed up. I mean, there they're messed up, but like it's horrifying, this movie.
00:56:05
Speaker
And it's just from the way it's filmed, ah it's so tense and upsetting. i really I really loved it. I don't know if I could watch it again, but it's...
00:56:19
Speaker
i just love that it's there's no violence tell me the title again because i'm gonna write it down it's krisha your your autocorrect will uh replace it with krishna but it is just krishna without an n and trey schultz uh went on to make some bigger movies okay well i'll have to check that out um because yeah i mean movies that don't seem like horror movies one of my quintessential examples of this is the lovely bones because it does not follow any horror structure, really.
00:56:52
Speaker
You know, nobody's running around with a knife. There's no, like, torture in it or whatever. But i don't know if you're familiar with the story. I've heard of it, but i don't I never saw it or read the book.
00:57:04
Speaker
Well, it's a little girl who is kidnapped, and, you know, all the things happen to her that would normally happen to a kidnapped little girl. And then her her ghost is trying to...
00:57:17
Speaker
and figure out what happened and find a way to like give her parents closure and and stuff like that. And it's, it's pretty horrifying. Like, yeah I mean, the premise is horrifying, but it's considered like the book is considered chick lit.
00:57:31
Speaker
It's not considered horror by any, and like women have gone off on me for saying, Oh, I didn't know you were a horror fan. And I wasn't trying to diss them. i was just like, man, that story is really heavy and terrifying and intense.
00:57:44
Speaker
And they, you know, and people are like, oh, it's not horror. You see Michael Myers in there? Like, that's not the only thing that's horror. Maybe... But that's like a horror thing. Like once a horror movie wins an Oscar, people want to say it's not a horror movie.
00:58:00
Speaker
Oh, same with science fiction. it can It becomes... It's drama. and Or maybe it becomes speculative fiction if they're trying to if they're trying to play both sides. yeah Yeah. Well, I don't know that anyone has sufficiently explained to me the difference between sci-fi and spec fake.
00:58:18
Speaker
I think it's very eye of the beholder. Yeah, absolutely. If even that.
00:58:26
Speaker
Yeah. um So, so what, so how exactly, like when you're, you're planning new projects with ADHD in mind, like how is, how is it different than what you used to do?
00:58:42
Speaker
um what Well, it used to be that like I just wouldn't have any projects. And then like suddenly I'd have this idea and and it would stay with me long enough that I would get started on it and like work on it for a few weeks and then just magically lose lose impetus.
00:59:05
Speaker
um And now i I mean, well, OK, the thing about software development in this day and age is that it's changing very, very rapidly with AI.
00:59:20
Speaker
And like coding something is so completely different than it used to be. I almost want to tell like people who aren't coders, like see if you can make something because now you're just a manager telling telling the AIs like what to do and checking to make sure they did it right.
00:59:40
Speaker
um It's so different and so it feels productive when it doesn't feel like Cookie Clicker. Do you know Cookie Clicker? No.
00:59:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:59:54
Speaker
Indulge me on this tangent. There is a game you can play online called Cookie Clicker. And all you do is you cook click a cookie to earn money. And then with the money, you can buy more ovens, more stuff to make cookies.
01:00:10
Speaker
And the more you play it, the faster you get money. And the more money you make, the more stuff you can buy, and then the faster you can make money. And these games always go the same way, which is at the end, like you've basically turned the whole universe into cookies.
01:00:24
Speaker
But when you play these games, you can be like, OK, I'm just going to play a little bit, and then I'm going to leave the browser tab open, and it's going to earn money, and then I can come back to it when I feel ready.
01:00:36
Speaker
OK. vibe Vibe coding, where you have the computer do everything, it feels exactly the same way. like You tell it to do a bunch of stuff, and then you just leave it alone.
01:00:48
Speaker
But you're always coming back to it. So you're I feel like I'm like not making any sense. No, no. I am? OK. Yeah. OK, good.
01:00:58
Speaker
Because you're always you want to leave it to do its thing but then you're always going back to it to make sure like oh how's it going how's it going is it going good oh let me just adjust this one thing adjust this one thing okay now i'm going to leave it alone now i'm going to leave it alone let it do its thing and then you're always coming back to it and redoing stuff and it's not as it feels really productive and it is much more productive than working on your own but it's not as productive as it feels it is but it's still great
01:01:31
Speaker
Interesting. i hope so. Well, the thing about like, well, because people talk about like AI in programming and I don't know anything about programming. It's all too meticulous for me. you know And I mean, ever since like Apple basic, once I learned to scroll my name up and down the screen, I felt very accomplished and I was done.
01:01:50
Speaker
um But I mean, that's, that's what like AI is supposed to be used for, right? Like meticulous tasks that a lot of people just can't, sit down and like writing code or whatever. Like it's, it's very meticulous and specific.
01:02:10
Speaker
So if, if an AI is doing it for you that, I mean, I would think that that frees people up for more creative work, which is why it is so ass chapping that people are using generative AI it instead of humans to do creative work.
01:02:25
Speaker
Not just cause it puts me out of a job, but because Why is it being used for that? Like, I don't, it seems like there should be like, it should be expensive.
01:02:37
Speaker
I think that's, that's the thing that that would, would, uh, make this where it needs to be. It should be expensive to make a book or make anything with ai in such a way that like mostly businesses would do it so that everyone isn't using AI for everything. Like I'll be in a writing community on Facebook and people will use AI to write their posts in the writing community to ask about writing.
01:03:04
Speaker
and And and i I can't fucking stand it. I can't, like, I'm mad that more people aren't mad about it. When this thing happened it at NaNoWriMo, you know, there were people that were like, oh, why is everybody so mad?
01:03:17
Speaker
Why are we mad that there's a writing competition where writing is no longer required? You need an explanation as to why people are mad about that. Yeah, I mean, there's, yeah, I have so many thoughts about AI. Like, I find it fascinating, and I also find it scary. And I find that, like, I tend to be considered on the on the wrong side of things because I'm more enthusiastic about it than and many people.
01:03:47
Speaker
um ah Most people that I admire, I should say. Yeah. So, I mean, there's, there's so many, there's different ways of thinking about it, which is that like, is it about the process or is it about the result and people who are, it's about the result.
01:04:04
Speaker
um It makes sense that they would be like, well, why, why, why do this thing that I don't have to do? Right. Well, exactly. Why do it if you don't want to do it? Why, why, you know, like, cause with novels in particular, people want to be a person who's written a novel, but they don't want to write a novel.
01:04:23
Speaker
and those things aren't separate, you know, hire a ghost writer. If that's, I don't know. I mean, I, I guess I do feel gatekeepy about noveling yeah because I know what it takes out of you to write a novel, like a real novel that means something to you.
01:04:41
Speaker
And so the fact that someone will sit at a keyboard and say, uh, you know, write a 60,000 word novel about blah, and it'll be done in, you know, half an hour and they'll be formatting it and publishing it and trying to sell it.
01:04:57
Speaker
Right. Right. And they'll be saying, well, they'll, I mean, generally they'll be taking credit for it. They'll be saying that. Yeah. Yeah. I wrote this. I mean, I wrote the prompts, so I wrote this.
01:05:10
Speaker
I, i the thing The thing that frustrates me about the way like artists tend to to to address AI is that they talk about like stealing the work ah yeah or plagiarism, right?
01:05:34
Speaker
You've heard them called plagiarism machines? Oh, sure. Yeah. yeah And I think that, like, I don't think that that holds water for me. Right? i mean, it may have been fed on a whole bunch of literature, and it's spitting out literature because it was fed literature.
01:05:49
Speaker
But like, so were we all. Like, all writers were were fed literature. And they're not. And if a writer chooses to copy the styles of another writer, we don't say they're a plagiarist.
01:06:03
Speaker
We say that they're hacky as hell, maybe. Yeah, and an imitator. Yes. But I think, though, that the limitations of human memory do mitigate that.
01:06:18
Speaker
Because an AI program, when you feed something into it, it's all there. You're not remembering the parts that you found most impactful. Every single word of it is there for reference.
01:06:32
Speaker
And it I mean, i guess it isn't even so much. I think visually, I feel really strongly that because it was fed so much actual art from artists, that what it spits back is not.
01:06:48
Speaker
Because like AI, for example, doesn't understand three dimensions. And so. Depends. They're getting better at that. Well, i I wasn't actually going to say this publicly, but I think I will.
01:07:01
Speaker
Okay. um i was i For the last ah year or so, i had been looking for reasons to keep my job because I'm not really in a position to turn down work. I can't get on disability because I have a husband with a job.
01:07:14
Speaker
So even though I'm disabled, I don't have an income unless I work. So when my boss decided that the company was going to lean into a i I wanted to quit and I couldn't quit right away. i could only quit certain aspects of the job.
01:07:30
Speaker
So part of my job was making AI videos. And they are absolute slop. They're 8 second videos. And you just go to this thing called Google Gemini and they pay a fee.
01:07:42
Speaker
And I tell them what stupid little thing I want them to make a video of. And one of the things I tried to get it to do was to have someone walking their pet.
01:07:53
Speaker
And the pet was going to jump through a flaming hoop. And every time it made the video... it made the pet jump into the hoop and just sort of stay there. Like it's in the hoop and it didn't understand like through the hoop.
01:08:10
Speaker
Yes. I have seen these exact same things of the three dimensions. And I didn't understand that. I actually found it out when I watched, uh, I think maybe like a wired interview or something where a guy was talking about AI and how it works.
01:08:24
Speaker
And like, I hate, the the idea of AI... Actually, on Friday, I quit the job for good because... Congratulations. Yeah, thanks. um Yeah, my my my bank account is not as thrilled. Did did I say find us on coffee, everybody?
01:08:40
Speaker
um No, but but the um the idea that like... Because i I can sit down and type a few sentences into that that little box and then it creates a video, that doesn't make me a film director.
01:08:56
Speaker
That doesn't make me a screenwriter. That doesn't like, those are real things, you know? And so when someone who has never typed an entire like page worth of prose is calling themselves a novelist because they were able to make a prompt, like, yes, there is a certain skill to making a prompt.
01:09:15
Speaker
You know, there's a certain skill to cutting an apple. You can cut an apple well, or you can cut an apple poorly, but if all you can do is cut an apple That's not how you make a pie. you're You're not a baker who makes apple pies because you can cut an apple. like That's not the totality of the skill that is needed to do the thing that you're trying to do.
01:09:37
Speaker
Well, what do you say to people who they want to create novels, but they don't want to call themselves a writer? They're completely open about the fact that like, oh, I prompted an AI to write the story that I wanted it to but i wanted the AI to tell.
01:09:54
Speaker
Here's the story. And they sell that as a book. How do you feel about that? um I think it is their right to to do that. um I question why anyone would pay to read something that nobody could be bothered to write.
01:10:08
Speaker
Yes. I mean, I i i tend to ah agree with that, that like art is not just about, like, it's not, let's see, what am I trying to say?
01:10:21
Speaker
It's, wow, I completely lost myself. It's, art is not just about,
01:10:33
Speaker
aesthetics, right? It's also about communication. Yes. and so Well, exactly. And then these are the humanities. The reason they're called the humanities is because they are what humans use to describe and define the human experience.
01:10:48
Speaker
If you've never been in love with anyone, if you've never fallen down and been embarrassed, if you've never worked all day on a cake only to have it fall in the oven, if you haven't had these things happen,
01:11:00
Speaker
You could probably lie and say you have, but the only way you're going to even feign authenticity is if you're imitating what other people who have done those things have told you the experience is like, which means it's always going to be flat. It's always going to be derivative.
01:11:17
Speaker
You know, like it's the difference between painting a wall and painting a picture. Like, yes, you've put paint on from one thing to another and changed what it looks like. One is art.
01:11:28
Speaker
One is a task. OK, but I want to i want to put the the question of quality aside because ok you might, like maybe these things will never get to the point where they're like indistinguishable.
01:11:42
Speaker
But I feel like there's such a danger that they will be indistinguishable, that that's like the level we need to be thinking at, right? We need to be we need to be addressing like what happens when you can say, hey, give me a new Stephen King novel about Teddy Ruxpin.
01:11:58
Speaker
um so So I feel, so what I was saying about communication is that if it's not a human communicating and it's just aesthetics, I think that that's going to eventually feel to people like eating sugar with a soup spoon.
01:12:17
Speaker
Like if you haven't had much sugar, that's going to be an amazing experience. But if you're,
01:12:28
Speaker
At a certain point, you're like, okay, I get it. This is satisfying one part of me. But like people are I feel like people want ah communication. They want to feel like they're communicating with another human being.
01:12:40
Speaker
So I think that all the talk about like, hey, pretty soon I'll be able to put myself into a Marvel movie and be entertained by that. I don't think that's really going to go anywhere. That's my hope anyway. Yeah, I can certainly see that. yeah You know, what that actually makes me think of is ah Oh, gosh, I forget the the guy's name. that the The woman that painted all the big-eyed kids and people thought it was her husband painting them, but it was actually her.
01:13:08
Speaker
um Yes. There's a movie about it. Tim Burton did movie about it. Yeah, it's got Christoph Waltz. But um part of of what happens in that movie is that the artist starts selling prints at a time when that really did not happen.
01:13:24
Speaker
But he wanted to make art affordable and available to people who did not have hundreds or thousands of dollars to buy original paintings. And the art world was super pissed about that because, it you know, their their whole thinking was that it's not really real.
01:13:41
Speaker
It's not really art. It's just mass duplicated. So you're not really having an original thing that was made by an artist. And the counter to that, of course, is people want art. They think this looks nice and they want to display it in their home.
01:13:54
Speaker
And now they can. yeah So it it is kind of a similar argument of, well, do you want nobody to be able to have this? Or do you want the people who want it to be able to have it?
01:14:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's really it's really tricky, especially when it comes to things that, to art. I mean, we're surrounded constantly by art that we don't think of as art because it's it's ah so integrated into our world.
01:14:19
Speaker
Like, when that gets replaced with AI, you know, we're not goingnna we're not going to question, hey, did an artist make this? You know what I'm saying? Well, sure. I mean, and it depends on, like, whether you're talking about, like, functionality, like what an architect does, for example.
01:14:35
Speaker
I mean, when I walk into a building, it has to be pretty fucking spectacular to make me stop and consider what the architect was thinking. But with art, it's pretty much immediate with me. That's why it's one of the reasons that I don't like a lot of video games.
01:14:50
Speaker
Because I can't tell what, like, the way that I'm thinking about them is never the way that a gamer thinks about them. You know, my husband got us this game that was supposed to be about solving a crime.
01:15:04
Speaker
And he thought I would like it because I like crime shows and stuff. And I didn't understand it. Cause I didn't understand like what I was supposed to do. Because as far as I know, a video game is when they put a bunch of stuff in front of you and you either have to solve the puzzle or kill everything before it kills you. Yeah. You eat the dots and you kill the ghosts. Right. Right. Okay. Zombies are after me. I understand what my role is in this situation. It is to not be eaten by that thing there.
01:15:31
Speaker
um But I don't, Like if I don't understand what the point of it is, then I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. Right. And it I just find it frustrating. And that in like one of my statements is always like, why is this fun?
01:15:46
Speaker
Why do people find this fun? i don't get it. It's like work. But well, and that might also be like why people who play video games feel like they've got a lot done in a day.
01:15:58
Speaker
It's like, well, I did 15 levels. like Cookie clicker. I'm telling you, we're back to cookie clicker. It feels productive, but all it is is number go up. It just feels good.
01:16:10
Speaker
And I mean, it's not like I'm immune to it because like when I get that big ass rocket ship at the end of Tetris, I'm like, look at my gamer ass. Nice.
01:16:23
Speaker
um i this is a perfect point to mention this uh about ai the use of it for for like leverage so like someone who has an idea and wants to make something of that idea there's a there's a video game it's a it's a crime video game so i i thought for a moment it might be the same one it's called the root trees are dead and it's fantastic it's all kind of logic puzzles the whole way through and this one developer made the whole thing And it has a lot of, I don't want to say art, has a lot of pictures in it.
01:16:58
Speaker
And the game was very well received because it was an excellent game. But people were like, I really don't like this AI art. ah This guy gave it away for free. And he got so much attention from it that he ended up selling it, selling a new version of it with the art all done by artists.
01:17:19
Speaker
And that was ah an instant purchase for me because I enjoyed it so much. I haven't even played the new version yet. But like this to me, that's like the optimal route, right? To use AI for like for prototyping and for making you know making the first version of something.
01:17:39
Speaker
Like a draft. like ah Like a draft. But I mean, this was more than a draft. Like if if this had been less, this still successful, but less successful, like he would have seen it still as a success and just not made the the the second version, I think.
01:17:57
Speaker
Well, you also can't copyright things that are made of generative AI. And I think that's also going to be a ah sticking point in the arts. because, well, one of the things that I actually thought of after you had mentioned that about, you know, putting in a prompt, making a novel, and then publishing it, because if someone does that, there's nothing stopping me from picking up their novel, typing in the back cover blurb as a prompt, and having AI make me essentially the same damn novel, and just selling it, you like, because I actually talked about that with my husband, I thought, I said,
01:18:33
Speaker
What would be funny is if I find all the AI books online, I do exactly what I just described, and then I title the book better than whatever their book title is and just just is.
01:18:48
Speaker
i don't think I'm that petty or hateful that I would actually spend time doing such a thing, but I would laugh my ass off if someone else did it. That would be perfect. i have to agree.
01:18:59
Speaker
ah yeah ah ah shoot. Now I've forgotten what I was going to say.
01:19:08
Speaker
Sorry. Oh, OK. Well, i have something I have something else, which is a there was an artist on LinkedIn, which, to be fair, LinkedIn, kind of a grind poison platform, right? Everyone's everyone's there ah trying to make themselves look like the perfect worker.
01:19:25
Speaker
But there was a piece called The Great Flattening, and it was by this artist who was talking about how AI is is Like, right now, the people who are the most afraid are the ones who are feel that they are the emperor wearing new clothes.
01:19:44
Speaker
Like, there they're the ones who, like, they don't really have something to say, but they've been... ah They've been treading water with the talent they have. But since they don't have anything to say, now anyone who has AI who wants to say something interesting is going to be able to do that and eat their lunch.
01:20:02
Speaker
And the the line from it I liked was, tools reveal they don't create, which I thought was oh interesting. Ouch. Yes. My
Creative Collaborations and Projects
01:20:12
Speaker
goodness. That, wow.
01:20:14
Speaker
Wow.
01:20:17
Speaker
Yeah, I need a minute with that. but that's That's pretty powerful. um Yeah. So, you know, with with that in mind, I want to tell listeners that the ah the only creative project you and I have ever done together, oh I guess there's two, because you've also done voice work for for some of my older stuff. That's right. Yes.
01:20:37
Speaker
But Resilient Brain Forest is a fantastic project. What made you decide to do that? ah You know, I had a friend who, you know, I'm always someone who likes to to make drawings.
01:20:52
Speaker
I've never been trained. I'd hate for someone who's been to art school to critique my drawings, um but I enjoy it. And a friend of mine, he was writing a piece actually about bath salts.
01:21:06
Speaker
And he asked me to, and it was ah it was a you know pros and cons leaning towards the pros, but that's neither here nor there. um He asked me to illustrate it, and I was so delighted to do it.
01:21:21
Speaker
I was daunted, but ah but the fact that like I had this obligation to do it made me really enjoy it. And I thought, I want and want more of that.
01:21:34
Speaker
And maybe this is something... i I think that's an ADHD thing. Oh, I have no doubt. I have no doubt. When you have the the pressure of like having to do something, it's easier to make yourself focus on it and get it done. and Yeah.
ADHD's Influence on Motivation
01:21:48
Speaker
Oh, my favorite ADHD
01:21:53
Speaker
idea is that for most people, there are three things that cause motivation, which is interest, urgency, and importance. Okay. When you have ADHD, it's only interest and urgency.
01:22:07
Speaker
Importance doesn't register. and Well, it's so vague. Important to who? When? Well, exactly. When is exactly it. Because if it's never um if it doesn't have the when, then it can't be urgent. So who cares?
01:22:22
Speaker
i can I can put that off till tomorrow or next week. um But to return to Resilient Brain Forest, I thought I could i could like give this gift to my friends. We could all ah write these comics, and and I would compile them.
01:22:43
Speaker
and Yeah, that's... It's a bunch of creatives who are not artists. Right. Well, not not even creatives. their own omission. Yeah, yeah. And we all made comic books for for a monthly, and we did it for a year. Yeah. And I'll tell you, that's not something that I ever would have done on my own.
01:23:03
Speaker
The very idea... Like, I know people who are professional illustrators, and... The idea that I would try to do such a thing standing next to any one of them is ludicrous. Right.
01:23:15
Speaker
But ah well, and not only did I do it, but I said, as long as I'm doing this silly thing, I'm not going to censor myself. I'm not going to hold back, which is why my comic was two serial killers who were roommates. And it's a comedy. Right.
01:23:31
Speaker
Yes, yes. Stig and the Puppet Man. Yes, and the wild thing about that is that since I started the magazine that I do now, um Sometimes Hilarious Horror, we get submissions from artists a
Creating Comics with Friends
01:23:46
Speaker
lot. And I actually am talking to an artist now who likes the original Stig and the Puppet Man stuff, and I'm looking very seriously about redoing it and then extending it with an artist who actually does know how to draw stuff. And then I would just do the, you know, the writing part.
01:24:02
Speaker
Oh, wow. That is, that is so pleasing to me. That would be great. Yeah. Cause it's so fun it's, you know, like we were saying before, it's, it's so dark because we, you know, there's a, there's a clown that drives an ice cream truck and he kidnaps children and he turns them into marionettes.
01:24:21
Speaker
And people are like, why are you called the puppet man if you turn children into marionettes? Just because I love that kind of nerdy infighting. um And then the other guy is meant to be as average, average, average as possible. He's medium height, medium build, not at all remarkable looking, except that he likes to kill women and and turn them into stew.
01:24:46
Speaker
ah Which is generally frowned upon. So they have a tough time. Yeah, yeah. yeah that was Yeah, that was so much fun.
01:24:57
Speaker
It was so hard to get people to to turn in their art, but it was so much fun. i would say something like that again, definitely.
Exploring Crafting Techniques
01:25:05
Speaker
You should. i mean, I remember the way that you went about it was done in such a way that it was like, all right, you guys, we know what human slacker is and we're not going to do it this time. We're going actually make these projects in tournament. And I found that so inspiring because it was kind of an ordeal because I used like actual photography and I had to learn illustrator, which I didn't know illustrator yet. I was barely making my way through Photoshop.
01:25:32
Speaker
So I had to like develop new skills and And I would take the the little sketches that I made and have H take them to work and scan them. And then I would digitally cut them out.
01:25:43
Speaker
So it kind of seemed like I could draw better than I could because I had like, I was drawing and then using graphic programs to, you know, to polish things up and make them look like they looked in my mind, but I didn't know even like basic comic theory.
01:26:00
Speaker
You know, for some reason, I thought it'd be funny to have every character have their own speaking font. And my friends that do comics are like, why the hell did you do this? This is not how comics work. Oh, no, i i I disagree. I think that's I don't know. I appreciate that choice.
01:26:15
Speaker
i yeah I keep thinking about how, like, when you're a kid in school and your teachers are always like, yeah. you know, if there'll be ah like an art project and it'll be like some new technique.
01:26:27
Speaker
And i just remember finding it so silly and boring as a kid. And now as an adult, like the idea of having to do art in a new way that I've never done it before, like once every week, that would be amazing. And that's the kind of thing that I like, you know, getting people to do. Like I i don't, I want to have parties where like,
01:26:48
Speaker
we are all coming to make this one type of art that no one there has made before oh dude you know what's good for that actually because you know well you know i have the soap shop right yes from there i got into resin crafting and like resin crafting is great but it takes a long time like if if i want to make like a box with a pretty picture on it it can take like three days depending on the design and stuff but There is a new formula that's not really resin. It's more like ah plaster of Paris kind of, but it's stronger.
01:27:24
Speaker
And when you make stuff with it and color it and pour it into molds, it sets up in like 30 to 45 minutes. So it is perfect for that sort
Parthenogenesis and Human Sexuality
01:27:34
Speaker
of thing. I'm just saying, if you're wanting to have people over for a craft party, it's called eco resin.
01:27:40
Speaker
And I freaking love it. Yeah, I'm actually doing some projects this week because I'm redoing my ah animal habitat for the lizards. And I'm going to make some stuff out of it. Yeah, they need a new tank. I don't even know how many I have right now.
01:27:53
Speaker
I got five like two years ago. And they're and there all women and they keep breeding? Oh, yeah. correctly That is correct. Good for them. Yeah, and it's funny too because there's so many scientific words for it because it's parthenogenesis is what they call it when species breed asexually.
01:28:11
Speaker
But it's not really without sex because they have girl lizard sex. Good for them. Hey. Right? Well, and that's the thing is if they don't do it, it doesn't stimulate the egg production. Like it's it's legitimately necessary for procreation even though they're clones. Right.
01:28:29
Speaker
Wow. but I love it. It makes manga people so mad when I talk about it too. So I talk about it a lot online. Yes, please do. Please do. Like, oh, that's that's not natural for people to be gay.
01:28:43
Speaker
Like, okay, well, for lizards it is. It's it's so natural for animals. I don't know. It's so obviously natural. Well, it's weird to me because like,
01:28:56
Speaker
If you tried to tell ancient Greeks or ancient Romans that bisexuality was wrong, they would ask you what the word meant because that's the default. Right, right.
01:29:08
Speaker
So, yeah. yeah um So I'm looking down my list because I want to make sure that we get to everything. Now, one of the the questions that we ask in our questionnaire is ah whether or not a guest has had a situation where they were in legitimate fear
Life-Threatening Experience
01:29:24
Speaker
for their life. And that's not a question that we spring on people, but we do have permission to ask you.
01:29:30
Speaker
So why don't you tell us what you have to say about Well, I had an answer, but then I realized I wasn't in fear for my life. But in retrospect, it's just terrifying.
01:29:43
Speaker
i I got the flu ah many years ago, and it was very bad. I got a terrible cough. And then a while later, you know after after I'd gotten rid of the flu, I had this weird pain in my leg, made it hard to walk.
01:30:03
Speaker
And I still kept this had this lingering cough. And one day i woke up, and it felt like I had coughed so hard in the night that I had like pulled a muscle in my chest.
01:30:14
Speaker
yeah
Recent Movies and TV Shows
01:30:15
Speaker
Yikes. um I don't know. Maybe you can see where this is going. But um I went to work, and one of my coworkers was like, you look terrible. You should go to the hospital right now. And she probably saved my life.
01:30:28
Speaker
because it was a blood clot that had from my leg to both my lungs uh yeah yeah real sucky um so yeah i could have easily died but i uh i'm still here wow man so how did that because i know i almost died in 2022 And ah I came home from the hospital and healed up and just started doing all the things because that was when I got the business back online.
01:31:02
Speaker
I started the um magazine and then a little while after that, I started the first, well, this podcast and was just like thing doing all the time.
01:31:12
Speaker
did Did that happen to you as well? i don't I don't think so. It ah it was so abstract. It was like, i don't know. it It felt kind of like, well, I could have been you know hit by a car crossed crossing the street.
01:31:27
Speaker
like Yeah, it was just too abstract for me to for me to to like feel like I was endangered. like Intellectually, I knew that I was had been in great danger, but I didn't have that that visceral feeling.
01:31:43
Speaker
I see. Yeah, I just kept a messing around like normal. I see. All right. um You know, I do like to spend a little bit of time with guests talking about like recent media.
01:31:57
Speaker
um Yes. Now, the last great movie that I saw was Sinners. Have you seen Sinners yet? I want to see it so badly. Oh, you do. You do. I actually paid human money to to get it from iTunes because I just heard that it was amazing.
01:32:11
Speaker
And it was. And I wasn't expecting it to be so like based in terms of. the yeah the occult stuff it was extremely well researched that like i don't want to go on about it at length because you haven't seen it yet but holy crap dude see it so okay i will i will I promise what have you been watching lately OK, you've mentioned the boys before. And i have not gotten into the, I read the books. I don't remember them at all. But I have not gotten into the TV show.
01:32:44
Speaker
But a very similar TV show in that it's like a deconstruction of superheroes, I've been watching with my kid, which is yeah ostensibly too violent for him. But it's Invincible, which is and animated.
01:32:56
Speaker
Also Amazon Prime, I think. Oh, it's It's very good. And I got to say, the cast is just fantastic. You got your J.K. Simmons, you got Zazie Beetz.
01:33:12
Speaker
it's it's It's a great show. ah Yeah. It's weird because J.K. Simmons, I think, is predominantly thought of as a sort of a gruff good guy now. But that was not always the case.
01:33:26
Speaker
And people kind of forget that. Perfect. Because ah I think the first thing I ever saw him in was Homicide Life on the Street. Oh, really? Wow. virulent white supremacist in that.
01:33:37
Speaker
Yeah, that's one of that's a great show for finding people that are super famous now when they were nobody. Like Steve Buscemi does ah an appearance on that show, and he looks maybe 19. Oh, wow. Okay. It would not surprise me to learn he could not go get a beer after he shot that up.
01:33:54
Speaker
Yeah. um And then, yeah, but then Oz on HBO. I didn't watch all of Oz because it was too much for me. Yeah, it was a bit too much for me, too.
01:34:05
Speaker
But he was a monster on that show. you know And now you see him as like... I guess it it kind of reminds me of... ah Oh, gosh, what is his name? Kurtwood Smith, who played Red Wormen on that 70s show. And so most people think of him as like, oh, yeah, he's the foot-in-your-ass But I...
01:34:25
Speaker
I mean, he started out, he's the, the main dad that drove his son to suicide and dead poet society. And he's a racist Robo cop. Oh yeah. Yeah. That too. That's, that's who he is to me. Okay. I love Robo cop.
01:34:40
Speaker
Oh man. What a movie. Yeah. That's. And it's funny. Cause you know, I was saying I was raised by conservatives and. the The takeaway in in when I was growing up was that RoboCop is about why you should respect the police.
01:34:57
Speaker
Oh, my God. oh Because because look at how bad police have it. Oh, i I don't think that's the message there. No, no, it was not. Well, but, you know, 80s movies were like that. I mean, think about, of course, think about like Ghostbusters. Ghostbusters was an enormously popular movie. Everybody loved it. The merch was everywhere.
01:35:18
Speaker
Who's the bad guy in Ghostbusters? It's the ah the um the the guy from who works for the city. it's the Yes, it's the Environmental Protection Agency. Yes, thank you, yes. that That is who is the bad guy in Ghostbusters. Regulations are as bad as ghosts.
01:35:36
Speaker
Like, thanks Ronald Reagan, you prick. You screwed us over worse than anybody since Nixon in healthcare. But that was in the 80s. We didn't even know what it meant to be screwed over yet.
01:35:48
Speaker
Yes, indeed. Wow. We're back here. No, no, no. Right. what ah What other shows can we talk about? Well, we just watched a bunch of Star Trek. We watched a Strange New World and Discovery. and I loved the shows as like that like chose as a kid, but I haven't watched any of the new ones.
01:36:10
Speaker
And I know I'm going to have to soon. Yeah, I mean... I was kind of daunted because there's so much Star Trek that if you're not caught up, it seems like, oh my God, how am I ever going to understand it all? But the thing about Star Trek is that the series themselves are pretty insular.
01:36:30
Speaker
So yeah you can pick a series and go from start to finish and Yeah, there's probably Tribbles in all of them, but for the most part, you're not going to miss a whole bunch of stuff.
01:36:42
Speaker
Like, H is much more into Star Trek than me, so he helps me. But, uh, because I actually like the stuff that's as close to TOS as possible. TOS and Next Gen is absolutely where it's at for
Complex Characters in Game of Thrones
01:36:55
Speaker
me. So, like, ah Discovery and Strange New Worlds, which are, like, way previous, and, you know, Strange New Worlds is Christopher Pike.
01:37:02
Speaker
Right, right. That's all about him. Guy before Kirk, right? Yes. Yes. And there's a young Spock who is played by ah Gregory Peck's grandson.
01:37:13
Speaker
And ah not to objectify people because that's morally wrong, but holy shit, that guy is hot. Like ridiculously so. ah So there's that. But but yeah, like the the show Picard, which I think went for like three seasons,
01:37:32
Speaker
huh which is, you know, like an extension of of Next Gen. all right And I think Star Trek, like the writers, not not the people that manage their merch, because Star Trek people are are treated badly by the people that do their merch.
01:37:49
Speaker
but But the writers, very into fan service. Very, very into... And and it it really is. Because the thing is that... I mean, I like it, and I like when...
01:38:02
Speaker
people that haven't worked for a while get to go do TV again. Like Jonathan Frakes has stayed busy, certainly, because he's a director, but that's not true of like the whole cast.
01:38:12
Speaker
Some of those people are coming back because boy, they need their SAG insurance re-upped. Oh, geez. You know, and and I'm not blaming them by all means. Yeah, no. You know, but yeah, I've been very into the Star Trek lately, but you know, it's one of those things, Star Trek and Star Wars both.
01:38:31
Speaker
our shows where the fans can really like why there are conservative fans of those shows i do not know oh i know you know like they don't they don't well it's like the people who who think robocop is a pro-cop show right or the the punisher people think that about the punisher yeah the punisher sticker jesus christ uh yeah like you have misunderstood that media um let's two shows. i got I got two shows. Well, okay, one show I've really been into is six Succession.
01:39:03
Speaker
And we were talking about acting earlier. Ooh, I watched that. The acting on Succession is so good.
01:39:12
Speaker
b Brian Cox is so, alternates between so menacing and so like um jovial. And he does it so believably. oh Yeah. great it really and And like just the Well, because, you know, I have that that mental problem where I was sure that Don Jr. was a good person deep down. oh yes. yeah So watching Succession for me is... um Because, you know, that guy is like super Don Jr. Right down to the like thinking he can dance and sing and stuff. It's like, oh, um ah Kendall, right? Yes. Kendall. Yes. Yes.
01:39:49
Speaker
Oh, God. He's <unk>s he's horrible. I also loved Kieran Culkin in that. is Oh, my God. It freaks me out that like, first of all, that he's a grown man. But like once I've accepted that, that's still a little much.
01:40:05
Speaker
Because when he's sending the dick pics to like the chick that had just dated, that looked like date his was considered way too old for his dad. And because the look on Brian Cox's face, remember when he finds out that he's like, who's he sending it to?
01:40:22
Speaker
Jerry. Like he's so horrified that he's sending dick pics to someone over 40. sometimes Sometimes an actor, like you will like I'll be watching something, and the actor, the character will be thinking something.
01:40:41
Speaker
And I'll have to pause it and say, like how do I know what that character is How is the acting so good that I know what that character is thinking? when i don't so I don't know what it is on their face. But Kieran Culkin, he was very good at that.
01:40:56
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I actually feel that way about Nikolai Costa-Waldo from Game of Thrones. Oh, I didn't. I wasn't a Game of Thrones-er. Oh, dude. The first six seasons, like, don't even bother with the last two, but the first six seasons is is some of the best TV you'll ever see. well ah And if you pretend that the season six finale is the actual finale, it is much, much better than the finale finale they actually give you.
01:41:20
Speaker
Well, I'll probably do that if I if i get around to watching it. one Because like once they completely run out of source material, it right it just turns to hot
The Rehearsal by Nathan Fielder
01:41:30
Speaker
garbage.
01:41:30
Speaker
But Nikolai Costa-Waldo plays this dude called Jaime Lannister. Oh, yes. He's very complicated character, but in ah in a lot of ways, he's the traditional knight in shining armor.
01:41:43
Speaker
And so a lot of the dialogue... it's kind of not there for him. Like the things that he says are the things that you would generally expect someone to say in his position.
01:41:54
Speaker
So the actor has to do so much more with his, if I may use this douchey term, his instrument. Yes. and And it's, it's like, it's so good for that alone because it would be very easy to just say pretty boy with a lance run out there and, and,
01:42:15
Speaker
you know, ride your little horsey to the dragon and and stick it, you know, whatever. But but no, he he turns that character into something extremely complex that you, even though you see him do a lot of horrible shit, fully understanding his his conflicts and his motivation make it all so much richer.
01:42:40
Speaker
That's great. So I would certainly recommend it for that reason. But also, i mean, the reason you watch Game of Thrones is because, i mean, the women. Because it it starts out, you got a bunch of kings.
01:42:51
Speaker
And by the end of the series, it's like this queen, that queen, this queen, and the other queen are going at it. I can appreciate that. I can appreciate that. yeah I can also recommend ah the rehearsal.
01:43:06
Speaker
Did you see Nathan Fielder? <unk>han fielder <unk> field No, Rapa. Does that mean anything to you? he he He had a show called Nathan For You, which It's kind of like he hates when people call it a prank show because it's not.
01:43:26
Speaker
But it's ah he would go to people, to businesses, and offer his services, his advice to these businesses. And they would end up being these elaborate, comedic, weird things that these businesses would do, that he would he would get them to do. and then
01:43:48
Speaker
It was... I'm not doing it justice. But the rehearsal is that but weirder. So it's... In a way, it's a documentary. But it's also very, very funny.
01:43:59
Speaker
And very, very strange.
Seth Rogen's Show on Apple TV
01:44:01
Speaker
Okay. I'm actually checking out that show on Apple TV about movie making. That has... ah Oh, yes. Seth Rogen is like the main guy in it.
01:44:13
Speaker
That show is hilarious. My buddy was telling me about it. And he said it was based on a movie... with Tim Robbins, where he's a movie producer. Oh, the player, yes. Yes. So we watched that movie, which I had never seen before, and it it's crazy because it has, like, a meta ending, where, like, it's, like, by the end of the movie, the movie is, like, spoofing itself.
01:44:36
Speaker
Oh, gosh, I don't remember that. That does sound very appealing. Yeah, because it's, like, kind of a normal movie, and then it just turns into this, like, insane schlockfest, and at the end, the main guy is, like,
01:44:48
Speaker
gets the girl and she's like out to here pregnant and they're living in the little like fancy house or whatever and yeah it's just like a storybook ending in a film that is not a storybook film so it's pretty wild and then the the movie is like or the the show rather is is Seth Rogen being that guy and like the first episode he's supposed to be making a movie with um Scorsese and he like fucks it over.
01:45:16
Speaker
and The Kool-Aid. Kool-Aid movie, yes. I saw that epi episode. I didn't see any any of the others. Yes, Kool-Aid. So, yeah, that was um that was pretty hilarious.
01:45:30
Speaker
All right. um Oh, you know what? I also wanted to just make sure if people want to like, if if they've fallen in love with you during this interview and they want to like reach out and be your pal, is that something that you welcome?
Conclusion and Community Engagement
01:45:42
Speaker
Should people find you online? Sure. I mean, they can, they can, they should play a few turns of Exquisite Monster. And that way I know they really do like me. and And then leave, post a message on the contact me form there.
01:45:57
Speaker
Cool. Which is ah exclusively for spam right now, but they could be the first actual human to use it.
01:46:06
Speaker
All right, cool. Well, listen, it is actually time for the Mad Libs. Oh, yes. All right. Yeah, we we do end episodes with a Mad Lib. I don't have permission for Mad Libs to do this.
01:46:17
Speaker
So um don't don't sue me, Mad Libs. or Or do. Maybe it'd be the just the publicity I need. I don't know. All right, let's see. So we're going to start with one, two.
01:46:29
Speaker
Looks like, oh, just two adjectives. Oh, two adjectives. Okay. ah Slimy and heavenly. All right, I need looks like one, two plural nouns.
01:46:46
Speaker
Okay. Ball bearings. Oh, wait, I need three, three plural nouns. Okay. Ball bearings. um
01:46:58
Speaker
Tacos and bottles of bleach.
01:47:06
Speaker
Can I do that? Is that but okay? Multiple words like that? Yeah. Yeah. all right. If I can write it down, you can do it. And I'm really talented at writing. um All right. So singular nouns, we need one, two, three, four, five. Okay.
01:47:24
Speaker
Headache. um
01:47:29
Speaker
Capsule. Hmm? ah Dust Bunny and Sunspot.
01:47:41
Speaker
One more. Oh, okay. um Pillowcase, he says as he looks at his pillowcase.
01:47:49
Speaker
All right. I need a number. 14. Part of the body, plural.
01:48:00
Speaker
Oh, what's that thing called?
01:48:04
Speaker
Thenar eminences. You actually might know what a thenar eminence is. My wife, who's a doctor, told me what it is. um No, i know the frontal eminence is your forehead.
01:48:17
Speaker
The thenar eminence is the like meaty part under the thumb, like basically like the ball of your hand. Oh, okay. it's the like tenderest meat.
01:48:29
Speaker
I was just sitting here thinking I heard that's delicious. Yes. heard that cannibals say that it is delicious. Great mind, sir. All right. I need a part of the body singular.
01:48:44
Speaker
Okay. Elbow.
01:48:49
Speaker
An exclamation. Crikey. Crikey.
01:48:56
Speaker
A verb, past tense.
01:48:59
Speaker
Tumbled.
01:49:03
Speaker
And a verb, present tense.
01:49:08
Speaker
Download.
01:49:12
Speaker
A part of the body, singular.
01:49:18
Speaker
Scalp.
01:49:21
Speaker
And an adverb.
01:49:25
Speaker
Embarrassingly. All right. So here we go. This is called Gimme a Sign. No, it's a sports thing. ah Being a catcher isn't as slimy as it looks.
01:49:39
Speaker
Not only do I have to catch ball bearings coming at me at 14 miles an hour. hey that's pretty good. Okay. Right? I also have to use elbow signals to tell the pitcher which headache to throw.
01:49:52
Speaker
And those are hard to memorize. Yesterday, for example, I wanted the first pitch to be a fastball, so I pointed two female eminences to the ground.
01:50:05
Speaker
To my surprise, the heavenly pitcher threw a capsule ball. Crikey, I cried, as the ball tumbled right past me, allowing all the tacos to advance.
01:50:18
Speaker
Then there were two bottles of bleach on base, and their cleanup dust bunny was at bat. I pointed my scalp to the ground, which means intentional download.
01:50:31
Speaker
But instead of embarrassingly walking the batter, the pitcher threw a curveball. The batter hit it over the fence and we lost the sunspot. As you can see, ah catcher's pillowcase is not an easy one. Wow.
01:50:47
Speaker
And there you have it, the irreverence that is Mad Libs. Yeah, I mean, that sounded at best mildly eccentric libs. Like, this was a ah believable sports story.
01:50:59
Speaker
One that I might read in my local paper. It's true. It's true. I should encourage more filth. Oh, that would be great. Yeah. well I have to say, Mad Libs, not not a world away from Poop You Cat.
01:51:13
Speaker
It's true. It's true. We actually, we had Mad Libs at our wedding. We made our own Mad Lib books and all the little Mad Libs were songs and we just took out words for the the game. I'm i'm a great believer in Mad Libs just because it is the kind of game that you could play with absolutely anyone.
01:51:29
Speaker
You can do it with a kindergarten class or a room full of perverts. It does not matter. It will be fun either way. Yeah, but how likely is it that the room full of perverts will know what an adverb is? um You know what? A little conjunction junction, a little ah schoolhouse rock before you start, and it just hooks everybody up.
01:51:46
Speaker
All right. Okay. I can see you that then. Yeah, definitely. um Dude, I am so glad that you could be here. This was a lot of fun. This was a blast. Thank you so much.
01:51:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. um We want to remind listeners that we are sponsored by Sometimes Hilarious Horror Magazine. And you can find us on Ko-Fi, which is ko-fi.com.
01:52:08
Speaker
i And subscribe to us. Supporting the magazine is really a great way to support the show. And you know what? I also want to tell everybody about our second podcast, which is gratis Guignol.
01:52:21
Speaker
It is free horror short stories that are read by me and some guests. And it's pretty dope, actually. You can find it on Spotify and, you know, like wherever you be getting podcasts.
01:52:34
Speaker
um Actually, H and I just did Cask of a Montalato, and I'm so excited because that is my favorite, favorite Poe story. and And women hardly ever do audiobook reads of Poe. It's it's pretty rare.
01:52:47
Speaker
Other than the bells. Everybody wants to do the bells for some reason.
01:52:53
Speaker
Alright, so cool. So thanks everybody for being here. Thanks to you, Jonathan. And we will see everybody next week. Bye. Bye.